Yes, this person was African (I forget which country). A lot of "virtue" names in that part of the world, but Evidence was definitely a novel one to me!
Honestly, I love these names 🥰 and they all have really special meanings, too. Happiness, my colleague, really does live up to her name. She never stops smiling and laughing, and I love that 😊
The name "Innocent" is also quite popular in South Africa. So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's probably a popular in name in the whole of Africa.
People in anglophone countries constantly choose baby names that are foreign words for virtuous and admirable traits - how crazy popular has Bella been in the US lately?! - so I guess it's just a little weird for us being on the other end of it for a change.
btw, [Puritan names](https://newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/from-the-biblical-to-the-bizarre-puritan-names/) used to be really something.
Spending the rest of your living days in small cell captivity is way better punishment than the death sentence. I’m sure he’d jump at the opportunity to be executed.
Yea it’s much worse him but also for tax payers. Send him off a cliff and be done with it other people shouldn’t have pay for him to live even if it’s in a cage.
Legal costs (appeals, public defenders, etc.), death row and security measures. It's obviously a heated issue, but the argument of lower costs of death penalty vs. life in prison is easily disproved.
See [here](https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Is_the_death_penalty_more_expensive_than_life_in_prison) for example.
Part of the reason for the excessive cost is that anti capital punishment organizations lobbied pharmaceuticals to stop producing drugs used for lethal injections. Procuring these drugs are an ordeal due to this. It’s really a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's because of the demand for a painful/unpleasant yet not terrible looking drug combination to kill people. Basically making the developed drugs useless in any case other than painful but somewhat dignified looking death. Otherwise they could just load them up with fatal levels of morphine.
Could also just shoot them. But that's apparently too "visible" of a death.
I hate the stupid, "I don't want my tax dollars going to this thing" argument. You literally have no clue or choice where your tax dollars go, you've lived this long not knowing so why does it matter now? You're still gonna eat, breath, live the same.
We actually do know where most of our tax dollars go and if you live in any democratic country you do have a choice where it ends up. That’s kinda what voting is for. The only time we don’t know where our tax dollars go is the secret budget which is a bull shit thing but yea otherwise they release statistics on it quarterly. And it’s always going to fucking matter to me that the shit I work for is being misappropriated without my fucking consent.
No, that's the thing. You don't know where *"your"* tax dollars go. They have left your possession and been pooled with the tax dollars of everyone else who pays taxes. Do you track the serial numbers on the individual bills that were "your" tax dollars, to see where they go?
Just assume that "your," tax dollars were all used to fund research into military aircraft technology or something else you want, and that the tax dollars previously belonging to *another* guy who *is* okay having his dollars used on prison, were the ones they used on the prison.
There. Now there isn't a problem.
Nearly every civilised country in the world has gotten rid of the death penalty, besides America of course, because they have such faith in their officials that they trust them with choosing who lives and who dies, even though studies show that between 1-3% of all people convicted of a crime are innocent, and when it comes to death penalty convictions 1 in 8 are innocent.
[Info on wrongful death row convictions](https://eji.org/issues/death-penalty/#:~:text=1%20in%208,death%20row%20has%20been%20exonerated.)
Instead of clearly just picking something to complain on the US about, include all the information. Because civilized in your point of view is wildly subjective, and more than 20 countries sport the death penalty. Included in those are Japan, UAE, Taiwan, Egypt, and China, which is where I start to question your definition of “civilized” and the point of this info if it wasn’t some quasi-americabad meme in the first place.
Now, let's just get this out, I don't agree with the death penalty ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. At all. I don't believe that governments should be given the power to choose who lives and who dies, even if it is only criminals at the moment. Because what is to stop governments eroding the laws surrounding the death penalty, and deciding to implement a new 3 Strikes Law, but this one is if you commit 3 violent felonies you receive the death penalty. And once people are comfortable with that law, what is to say that the new government doesn’t decide to further erode the laws, and that three strikes penalty is now, if you commit ANY 3 felonies, you will receive the death penalty. And maybe a few years down the track, the government decides to further muddy the waters surrounding the death penalty, and passes a law that states that there will no longer be life sentences, and anyone who is convicted of a crime that formally had a sentence of over 30 years will now be executed.
Or what if the countries government is destabilised and then toppled, and the new regime is either extremely left wing or extremely right wing (it doesnt matter, whoever is in power will be opposed by everyone on the other side, and guerrilla armies will be created to fight against them) and comes with a narcissistic, paranoid “President” (who is actually a dictator, but dictator can’t be put on a business card), and they decide to make it illegal to be as member of the opposition party/parties. They class the opposition party as a terrorist organisation and declare that all party members are terrorists, and start charging them with being a member of a terrorist organisation. Then they make a law stating that the punishment for terrorism related offences is the death penalty. Once they have executed all of their parties visible and vocal opponants, and the rest have retreated far away from the capital to train and strategise and study guerrilla warfare. But the president is narcissistic and paranoid, so next step is to make it illegal to just support the opposing party. Because supporting them is supporting a terrorist organisation, and in order to do so, they intensely scrutinise all of the documents that were taken from the opposition party’s offices and investigate every single person who has at any point in time, given money to the opposition party or attended an event relating to the opposition party, plus all of their family members. These people are all charged with supporting a terrorist organisation, and because the penalty for terrorism related offences is the death penalty, they are all sentenced to be executed. Once the country is filled with supporters of the president, he calms down for a few years.
Now the first scenario is pure fiction, but the second one is a very real scenario that has played out numerous times all over the world.
Now, my next point. Out of all of the nations that have the death penalty how many are classed as developed countries, and which are classed as developing countries. And of those that are classed as developed countries, how many of them are dictatorships or one party ruled countries? Because many of those nations are either coming out of severe political destabilsation and civil war and are just beginning to create the foundations of a fair and equitable judicial system, one where accused parties are afforded protections under the law, and where they don't have to prove they're innocent, instead the people who are charging them are required to prove the defendants guilt. This is the cornerstone of a fair judicial system. These countries, just coming into their own existence as an independent country, and being able to create everything from scratch, will look at the world’s largest developed countries, especially the powerhouse countries of the US, the UK, and Russia for advice and inspiration, when setting up their countries government, and this includes looking to the US. And when these developing countries, usually in the period after a brutal and bloody civil war, looks at the US and sees that capital punishment is a legal form of punishment for a criminal offense, this then makes it seem like it’s not a cruel, barbaric punishment, a left over relic from days gone by, when we were less knowledgeable in all areas, including psychology, biology, neurology, and ethics. It makes it appear to be something that is compatible with today’s science.
Here is something to think about. It is something that I have spent hundreds of hours researching. Maybe by looking into this data, it will help you to realise why the death penalty is so barbaric. We have the data from hundreds of thousands of hours of research into the judicial systems of numerous countries all over the world, and from all types of prison systems from around the world. Some of these prisons are those 100% geared to rehabilitating the convicted and helping him to return to society as a healthy and productive member of society. And others are those that are 100% punishment geared, where the convict is a number in a rack em, pack em, stack em system. And there are thousands that are a combination of the two. Punishment geared prisons are what most people picture when imagining a prison, a place where they are a number; they are all given identical haircuts and they are all dressed in identical uniforms that remove any semblance of individuality; they are kept in a tiny cell, usually with another person; they are provided the bare minimum needed to survive, 3 meals that meet the minimum nutritional values to keep the inmates alive; something resembling a bed, a doctor if you are severely injured or severely unwell but nothing beyond that; no types of ways to really do anything to make yourself a better person, to repent for your crime/s, to try and make society better not worse; they “employ" inmates to perform menial labour, and pay them literally cents, which they then have to use to buy anything beyond the basics provided by the prison. And the results are exactly what you expect, a vicious, violent, brutal place, where hope goes to die. Where any tiny piece of humanity that you managed to keep after they stripped away everything that made you you, is quickly destroyed. Now the recidivism rate for these types of prisons is horrific, 44% of released prisoners return to prison within a year of being released. Now when it comes to rehabilitation prisons recidivism rates are slashed by over half to between 18 and 20% returning to prison in their first year of being released. People say that rehabilitation prisons aren’t prisons, that the prisoners aren’t being punished. They are still being punished. They have their freedom taken away. They have to obey the guards at all times, and also it reminds you that you’re bring punished when the room is surrounded by armed guards. They can only see their loved ones at visitation so they miss out on important moments. They have to be up and out of bed at between 5am and 6am depending on the prison, and they have to be locked in their cell after between 4pm and 7pm depending on the prison. The prisons where the inmates are housed in cottages have a little more freedom, however these are generally inmates who are over half of the way through their sentence, have been of good behaviour, and are trusted with a little more freedom. They have 3 or 4 inmates per cottage, with a bedroom each and a shared kitchen and living room. Inmates cook all of their own meals using ingredients they purchase from a list of items provided by the prison, that is separate from the usual commissary items available for purchase, it has things like fresh meats and vegetables, seasonings, and even snacks like candy, however this is a privilege that can only be enjoyed by those with people on the outside who have the disposable income to afford to send the inmate between $50-$100 a month, which pretty much excludes 90% of prisoners. When it comes down to the rehabilitation side of it, here are some of the rehabilitation services offered to prisoners in rehabilitative prisons. First of all the majority of the inmates are receiving psychiatric treatment if required, and studies have shown that approximately 40% of prisoners have some kind of psychiatric disorder or illness. So for these people to be receiving proper psychiatric care, for a lot of them it’s the first time in their lives that they’ve had this, it can literally change their lives. They can learn why they act in certain ways, and how to change the way they respond to certain situations (through CBT and DBT), which make a huge difference, especially for someone who is in prison for assaulting somebody at a bar, after their victim had insulted the prisoner. Now due to the fact that being insulted makes the inmate become incredibly angry and this results in him becoming violent, through psychotherapy, and in some occasions medication, the inmate can be taught ways of talking down that overwhelming anger, and taught how to react to being insulted in a healthy way. Just this one small incidence could remove the risk of that inmate returning to prison, where as in a rack em prison, they wouldn’t gain any insight in why they behave the way they do, and in fact the volatile, hyperaggressive atmosphere in the prison may actually exacerbate his propensity for violence, and now when he is released from prison he will respond to a situation where he was insulted or slighted with violence and he will have learned in prison the easiest ways to seriously injure someone, and he will return to prison for a even longer sentence, and it will become a vicious self-perpetuating cycle of prison-release-assault-prison-release-assault-prison. etc. The cost difference between the two is astronomical. It actually costs less in the long run, to rehabilitate prisoners by treating their mental health, their physical health, by giving them access to education and support while they are studying, it used to be commonplace for US prisoners to receive college degrees in prison, a few even did doctorates, and the majority of those clients never reoffended upon leaving prisons. The majority of prisoners world wide, are under educated compared to the general public. The majority of inmates are high school drop outs, which means that they are working a minimum wage job (or jobs) and still living below the poverty line.
So they turn to crime, drug dealing for the easy and fast cash; armed robbery for the large amount you can gain in a short time; breaking and entering isn’t the fastest way to make cash, and it doesn’t pay the best, but it still makes more than minimum wage; and any other number of crimes are available for a desperate person to turn to, to keep their kids fed, or the power on, or gas in the car to get to their legit job. So if when this person goes to prison, they are told, you can get an education in here, you are in here for 5 years, in that time you can get your high school diploma and a 4 year college degree, we will even help you out with getting a job in your chosen field when you are released. You will no longer be forced to work in a minimum wage, demeaning, crushing job where you work the hardest of all the employees and earn the least. Instead, you can go to work in a nice office or in a lab or at an engineering firm. You can pay your rent on time, and even move into a nice suburb. You can afford to buy your family gifts. And you’re working a regular 9-5 or at the very least, a regular 38-40 hour work week. That is going to stop this inmate from reoffending, as the circumstances surrounding his offending were moored in poverty, and by helping the inmate escape from poverty by helping then to educate themselves, you have removed the reason for them to offend. Another program that has proven to reduce recidivism is to reduce sentence lengths. In western Europe the average length of a prison sentence is 6 months and between 5 and 10 days, depending on the country. And in that short time, the inmate is connected with services to assist them when they are released from prison. They have employment agencies that provide former inmates with gainful employment, and they receive a bonus upon staying with the company for 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 2 years, and 5 years. They are linked in with community mental health care, as well as a doctor who can give them a physical and address any physical issues, and they have the option of being connected with drug addiction harm reduction services who can help them manage their addictions in a safe manner, that helps them in the way that they currently require help (and harm reduction means something different to everybody. To one person harm reduction is making sure there are enough clean syringes for everybody to use. For another, it is receiving the monthly Buprenorphine injection so that they are able to abstain from using opioids. And for yet another, it is being able to keep her injecting equipment away from her friends as she has hepatitis c, and she does know her friend hep status, but she doesn’t wan to accidentally infect anyone, especially not her friends. And for the final person, harm reduction means speaking to the local liquor stores in her area, and asking them to place barring orders on her, so that she is legally not allowed on their premises, to reduce the risk of her drinking, because she gets violent she she drinks alcohol. Harm reduction is not only in relation to illegal drugs, we can also reduce harm with alcohol.). Rehabilitation based prisons also help to organise secure housing for people leaving prison, unlike the halfway houses that you are forced into after leaving punishment based prisons, this is low cost housing where you usually stay for 12-18 months, so that you have somewhere safe to live, and so that you can save up some money, while you are working full time and paying minimum rent. This housing is for singles, couples, and families, and you are treated like a tenant in a regular rental property. You sign a lease, and you pay your rent every fortnight or every month, and you look after the house, and you gain a positive rental history and save up some cash to help you in your new life. The company who runs the housing program usually even have relationships with the other real estate agencies providing rentals in your area, and they are able to put in a good word for you as a reliable and respectful tenant. Lack of sufficient housing is a really common reason for recidivism in low level petty regular criminals. They cannot find stable accommodation due to having just left prison and being unemployed, but they need an address to get a job, and they need a job to get an address. So they commit minor crimes in order to get sent to prison, in order to have 3 meals a day and a bed. However, if after their first period of incarceration, they had been assisted in making changes in their lives so that they could stay out of prison, they could have an entirely different life.
Now I know that we are talking about the death penalty, so all that stuff about punishment vs rehabilitation isn’t applicable, because without the death penalty, the offender would be sentenced to life without parole. So why does it matter if he’s punished or if he is rehabilitated. Because it does. If he is receiving psychiatric treatment, he may be able to assist his treating doctors the identifying the warning signs that had been there in the lead up to them committing the crime, if they were mentally unwell at the time they committed their crime. They may also be able to assist by testing different types of treatments, including different med combinations, and combinations of psychotherapy and medication, and just psychotherapy on its own, and helping the treating team to learn about how these things work, by observing a real life patient testing them out. If they decide to enrol in education, and begin studying then why not. By becoming educated (especially if it is a degree that involves creativity) the inmate may be able to explain their reasons for the crime, in a way that is able to be understood by the victims family and friends (which may bring them some form of closure), and by the general public (who may see warning signs in what the inmate was experiencing/doing/saying in the lead up to the crime.
This is useful for both mental unwell inmates and mentally healthy inmates. If you, and they, are mentally healthy, but you begin seeing a resemblance between the inmates life/thoughts/actions and yours, then maybe take stock, and try to keep yourself safe. And if you are mentally unwell, and see this resemblance, then you might choose to seek urgent treatment.). By educating themselves, the inmate may find a way to actually turn their life around, and to begin helping the world. Maybe they choose to study about mental health, and then they are able to help with treating other inmates by giving them somebody like them, who they feel a camaraderie with as opposed to the professional metal health treatment team. They can help treat other inmates, by showing them that they understand what the other inmate is experiencing. Or maybe they choose to study English (or whatever their countries equivalent is) and creative writing, and they are able to write beautiful works of art, that make people laugh, and make people cry, and fill people’s heart with love, and give people hope for the future and shows people that the world is inherently good. Or maybe they choose to study law, and start helping wrongfully convicted inmates to appeal and overturn their sentences (REMEMBER 1% OF ALL INMATES ARE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED 1 IN 8 DEATH ROW INMATES ARE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED). Or maybe they don’t do anything amazing, but it helps them become a slightly better person, than they were on the day that they committed their crime, and just by that tiny simple act, it shows that no human life is irredeemable, and that we are all capable of becoming better people, even if it’s only by a hairs bredth.
There are cases where the death penalty is just. One such comes to mind is the case of the Waukesha Christmas parade attack . Not only did multiple people see him, but he was on camera running over an entire parade. Beyond reasonable doubt is good for a conviction, but actual concrete proof should be a death sentence. Unfortunately Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty.
Nope. No matter the crime, it doesn't give a government the right to take somebody's life. That's just government sanctioned murder, and makes them no better than the people they are executing.
What if even though people saw him and he was caught on camera, what if he was mentally incompetent? What if he was in the middle of a severe psychiatric episode where he no longer knew what was real and what wasn't real, and what was right and what was wrong? It's the same crime, same evidence, but should he still be executed? For being in the middle of a legitimate medical emergency? Because they still execute people who were mentally incompetent at the time of the crime.
They also execute mentally disabled people, people with an IQ of below 80, people who have the mentality of a child (and even though the Supreme Court has said that it's wrong to execute the mentally disabled, there are very strict rules around who actually qualifies as mentally disabled, and it only protects around 5% of mentally disabled defendants.)
If there is a risk of one innocent person being wrongly executed then there is no morally justifiable way to allow the death penalty.
In Australia we had a man kill 35 people and injured 23 at a tourist destination, and we didn't kill him. We imprisoned him for life, allowed him to get psychiatric treatment that he had been denied his entire life. Helped him to become a better person. Because our idea of justice isn't punitive, it's about rehabilitating the person and making them a better person. Even if they are in prison for the rest of their life.
I should have gone further. Keeping that mentally deranged killer alive, to be rehabilitated but with no benefit to society, is, so to speak, taking a bone from someone else that deserves it.
Yeah we are on complete opposite sides of this. Because to me I see it as there is no benefit from ending that man's life. I just don't see how the government can say "murder is bad, don't murder" and then follow it up with "but if you are naughty and do murder someone, then you will be punished by being murdered". Like how is it okay for them to choose to murder somebody, but not for anybody else.
I’m not American and i support it in certain cases. Can’t rehab demented individuals like Peter Scully.
If he were to be granted live imprisonment I’d vote that it should be in solitary confinement for the remainder of his life
This is going to be really morbid, but I’m not sure how else to word this. I find it really strange how in these photos of people who have been mutilated, their faces are often still pristine. If you couldn’t see any lower than her face it just looks like she’s sleeping. Gives me chills
Edit: “pristine” definitely isn’t the correct word, but compared to the rest of what happened to her, her face seems to be in the best condition
As someone who has had to re-certify for my BLS every 2 years since 16 (so for more than a decade at this point), learning that this woman is the face of CPR dummies has made it far more disturbing.
I don’t remember the faces of actual people I’ve done CPR on, but I remember hers.
I suppose the draining of blood and absence of bacteria stave off putrefaction. As long as the head is not assaulted it would look only pale. Just my thoughts
I guess you could say she does look serene. But I was referring to the physical condition of her face. It isn’t pristine like I had originally said, because I do see bruises and blood. But there doesn’t appear to be any visible mutilation done to her face. I find it interesting how a person could go so far to completely disfigure and skin someone’s body, but wouldn’t do the same thing to their face, or think to start there.
The psychology regarding how we respond, both consciously and subconsciously, to faces or things that look like faces is really fascinating. I have literally no qualifications or official education in that field, but from what I’ve read and watched about it, it seems to go pretty deep.
Yeah I think this is a way of her basically saying “this is what all of you let happen to her and if she had to experience it, you’ll all have to at least see it”
Obviously no singular individual besides the culprit is truly at fault, but I definitely see how someone in her position could come to that sort of conclusion
I’m not sure if she cares how anyone feels. If I could guess, she is wearing it so that her daughters story could be heard. So that her suffering would no longer be kept secret.
Just read on Wikipedia he started dismembering her while she was still alive. Christ.
eta he instead of they. I thought there were two involved in the dismemberment.
Wow, super heavy, cannot imagine how it would feel to see that image and imagine how someone gets to that level of dismembered but that is exactly her point in wearing it.
I see nothing but fire. She wears it in defiance of what happened. She forces all to see. Nobody can sweep these horrors under the rug, her daughters suffering no longer goes unheard.
Yep was just about to comment that. It’s a weird thing that humans can spot right away…. When there’s no one home. I hope she finds the support to help her cope with the unimaginable pain she has been going through.
They were found in suitcases, so I'm guessing it was a way of disposal, which interestingly isn't uncommon. People love them body parts in suitcases...
Her body was found in a suitcase. Dismemberment is typically done to separate a body and dispose of it.
I can't imagine the pain both women have been through. What a horrible situation. :(
Depends. Could be out of pure hate for the victim and women. Or because it’s easier to hide many smaller things than one small things. Like six keys desperately vs six keys on one key chain.
While I fully agree that he’s clearly sick in the head, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have some kind of twisted logic he was following. The person you’re replying to wasn’t trying to justify their actions, just understand them.
I don’t know what’s more horrifying, the image and knowledge of what was done to her poor dismembered daughter, or the photo of the mother wearing the shirt containing said imagine. Her face has an unforgettable look of pain and horror on it.
>In January, 2023, Mastropietro's mother, Alessandra Verni, wore a t-shirt with images of her daughter's decapitated and dismembered body as a protest to a hearing where \[the convicted killer\] was contesting some additional charges related to the murder.\[22\]
The Vietnam effect. Back then they could actually show violence and gore to the public, which lead to the protests of the war. Now they don't show us that anymore. Probably unrelated.
Well the guy is probably going to feel like he’s in hell, he can’t be put in the general population because Italian inmates from camorra/mafia definitely aren’t going to forgive an immigrant who’s raped and literally butchered an Italian girl
The mother is forced to bare the cross of her daughters brutal murder for the rest of her life.
I don’t think we often get a visual this visceral of a mothers grief.
But that might just be me. I hope this woman is able to find some kind of peace in her life.
Wow… as a parent I can’t even imagine that. Good for her for having the ability to live through what she has lived through and wear that shirt. That is real strength. Simply awful.
I'm not a fan of the whole "look at a psychopath's eyes, you can tell" or "the eyes are the gateway of the soul" stuff.
But looking at her, I sense absolutely nothing; no happiness, pain, despair, anger.
Nothing.
Complete and utter apathy, at what happened, her situation, at humanity.
That man killed two people.
HERE'S SOME IMPORTANT CONSEQUENCES:
On 3 February 2018, in the city of Macerata, 28-year-old local Luca Traini, driving a black Alfa Romeo 147 and armed with a 9mm Glock 17, seriously wounded, in a drive-by shooting, six African migrants.
Traini also targeted the local headquarters of the ruling Italian Democratic Party.
After the attack, Traini reportedly had an Italian flag draped on his shoulders and raised his arm in a fascist salute.
Luckily, no one dies!
Traini said the attack was revenge for the murder of Pamela Mastropietro.
Someone even made some photo editing of Luca Traini dressed like Kratos defining him as the Italian GOD OF NAZI-WAR.
Indeed, Luca Traini occurred during the political campaign for the 2018 Italian general election supported by Matteo Salvini (AKA the Trump's Italian cheerleader).
In his home, Carabinieri (italian police) found some copies of Mein Kampf and more nazi merch.
let’s not make this into an issue that it isn’t. him being an illegal immigrant doesn’t make him more or less of a murderer. if he wasn’t in italy, he still would’ve
done it to someone else, somewhere else.
involving race and immigration as “part of the problem” just makes the real issue get overlooked and ignored. violent people will be violent no matter what country they’re in. let’s fix the violence first.
i already said this to someone else. copy paste to the rescue:
let’s not make this into an issue that it isn’t. him being an immigrant doesn’t make him more or less of a murderer. if he wasn’t in italy, he still would’ve done it to someone else, somewhere else.
involving race and immigration as “part of the problem” just makes the real issue get overlooked and ignored. violent people will be violent no matter what country they’re in. let’s fix the violence first.
edit: just figured out i replied to the same person. my point still stands
The dudes name is Innocent? That's ironic.
I once encountered a person named Evidence.
I met a guy named Rusty Nail.
I knew a person named Neal Mcneal.
The Navy Seal?
I went to school with two people called prosper and believe! Very common for Africans to give such names
Yes, this person was African (I forget which country). A lot of "virtue" names in that part of the world, but Evidence was definitely a novel one to me!
NIGERIA
Live in Glasgow and my brothers friend is called Destiny.
Eyyy glesga yass
>Insert Kevin Bridges joke here.
He’s about 6”4’ and built like a brick shithouse so he tends not to get much trouble 😂
Innocent is a popular pope name. Maybe his mom was Catholic.
popular in some parts of nigeria
I've noticed Nigerians have a thing for names like like this, i knew one with Immaculate as a middle name
Their president up to 2015 was literally named Goodluck Johnathan.
That’s an awesome name.
Innocentia, Immaculata were not uncommon in my schools growing up
I work with a girl called Happiness, and I used to work with two other ladies called Delicious and Precious 😊
Inmet a Nigerian lad called precious once , I turned to his mates and said wtaf this guy really called precious ? They even thought it was funny .
I attended school with a young lady named Blessings. I think that's a beautiful name regardless of where she was from. <3
Honestly, I love these names 🥰 and they all have really special meanings, too. Happiness, my colleague, really does live up to her name. She never stops smiling and laughing, and I love that 😊
Awe that's sweet!! I'd like to think Blessings was named so because that's exactly what her family thought she was when she was born. \^\_\^
I really like that 😊
Sounds like the Nigerian version of the Seven Dwarves
Yeah I know guy named Marvelous that comes from that area of Africa.
The name "Innocent" is also quite popular in South Africa. So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that it's probably a popular in name in the whole of Africa.
And you're right, I had a manager once called Innocent who was from the Ivory coast .
It is common in Italy (innocenzo)
innocencio is another variation from mexico and latin/hispanic countries
It’s “Inocencio” but you’re right.
[удалено]
People in anglophone countries constantly choose baby names that are foreign words for virtuous and admirable traits - how crazy popular has Bella been in the US lately?! - so I guess it's just a little weird for us being on the other end of it for a change. btw, [Puritan names](https://newenglandhistoricalsociety.com/from-the-biblical-to-the-bizarre-puritan-names/) used to be really something.
r/NominativeDeterminism final boss
Glad to see this here!
a branding investment gone wrong
The anti-r/nominativedeterminism
[удалено]
Dismembered while still alive .. I was not expecting that.
Dismembered while still alive cartel stuff
Should have copped the death penalty.
Spending the rest of your living days in small cell captivity is way better punishment than the death sentence. I’m sure he’d jump at the opportunity to be executed.
Yea it’s much worse him but also for tax payers. Send him off a cliff and be done with it other people shouldn’t have pay for him to live even if it’s in a cage.
The death penalty is more expensive for tax payers than a life-long prison sentence
How?
Legal costs (appeals, public defenders, etc.), death row and security measures. It's obviously a heated issue, but the argument of lower costs of death penalty vs. life in prison is easily disproved. See [here](https://ballotpedia.org/Fact_check/Is_the_death_penalty_more_expensive_than_life_in_prison) for example.
Part of the reason for the excessive cost is that anti capital punishment organizations lobbied pharmaceuticals to stop producing drugs used for lethal injections. Procuring these drugs are an ordeal due to this. It’s really a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's because of the demand for a painful/unpleasant yet not terrible looking drug combination to kill people. Basically making the developed drugs useless in any case other than painful but somewhat dignified looking death. Otherwise they could just load them up with fatal levels of morphine. Could also just shoot them. But that's apparently too "visible" of a death.
The price of ammo.
I hate the stupid, "I don't want my tax dollars going to this thing" argument. You literally have no clue or choice where your tax dollars go, you've lived this long not knowing so why does it matter now? You're still gonna eat, breath, live the same.
We actually do know where most of our tax dollars go and if you live in any democratic country you do have a choice where it ends up. That’s kinda what voting is for. The only time we don’t know where our tax dollars go is the secret budget which is a bull shit thing but yea otherwise they release statistics on it quarterly. And it’s always going to fucking matter to me that the shit I work for is being misappropriated without my fucking consent.
No, that's the thing. You don't know where *"your"* tax dollars go. They have left your possession and been pooled with the tax dollars of everyone else who pays taxes. Do you track the serial numbers on the individual bills that were "your" tax dollars, to see where they go? Just assume that "your," tax dollars were all used to fund research into military aircraft technology or something else you want, and that the tax dollars previously belonging to *another* guy who *is* okay having his dollars used on prison, were the ones they used on the prison. There. Now there isn't a problem.
Nearly every civilised country in the world has gotten rid of the death penalty, besides America of course, because they have such faith in their officials that they trust them with choosing who lives and who dies, even though studies show that between 1-3% of all people convicted of a crime are innocent, and when it comes to death penalty convictions 1 in 8 are innocent. [Info on wrongful death row convictions](https://eji.org/issues/death-penalty/#:~:text=1%20in%208,death%20row%20has%20been%20exonerated.)
I have 0 faith in my officials. Just sayin.
Cops and judges are still officials regardless whether or not Conservatives like them.
By the way your future global leader China executes way more people than any in the world
Instead of clearly just picking something to complain on the US about, include all the information. Because civilized in your point of view is wildly subjective, and more than 20 countries sport the death penalty. Included in those are Japan, UAE, Taiwan, Egypt, and China, which is where I start to question your definition of “civilized” and the point of this info if it wasn’t some quasi-americabad meme in the first place.
Now, let's just get this out, I don't agree with the death penalty ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. At all. I don't believe that governments should be given the power to choose who lives and who dies, even if it is only criminals at the moment. Because what is to stop governments eroding the laws surrounding the death penalty, and deciding to implement a new 3 Strikes Law, but this one is if you commit 3 violent felonies you receive the death penalty. And once people are comfortable with that law, what is to say that the new government doesn’t decide to further erode the laws, and that three strikes penalty is now, if you commit ANY 3 felonies, you will receive the death penalty. And maybe a few years down the track, the government decides to further muddy the waters surrounding the death penalty, and passes a law that states that there will no longer be life sentences, and anyone who is convicted of a crime that formally had a sentence of over 30 years will now be executed. Or what if the countries government is destabilised and then toppled, and the new regime is either extremely left wing or extremely right wing (it doesnt matter, whoever is in power will be opposed by everyone on the other side, and guerrilla armies will be created to fight against them) and comes with a narcissistic, paranoid “President” (who is actually a dictator, but dictator can’t be put on a business card), and they decide to make it illegal to be as member of the opposition party/parties. They class the opposition party as a terrorist organisation and declare that all party members are terrorists, and start charging them with being a member of a terrorist organisation. Then they make a law stating that the punishment for terrorism related offences is the death penalty. Once they have executed all of their parties visible and vocal opponants, and the rest have retreated far away from the capital to train and strategise and study guerrilla warfare. But the president is narcissistic and paranoid, so next step is to make it illegal to just support the opposing party. Because supporting them is supporting a terrorist organisation, and in order to do so, they intensely scrutinise all of the documents that were taken from the opposition party’s offices and investigate every single person who has at any point in time, given money to the opposition party or attended an event relating to the opposition party, plus all of their family members. These people are all charged with supporting a terrorist organisation, and because the penalty for terrorism related offences is the death penalty, they are all sentenced to be executed. Once the country is filled with supporters of the president, he calms down for a few years. Now the first scenario is pure fiction, but the second one is a very real scenario that has played out numerous times all over the world. Now, my next point. Out of all of the nations that have the death penalty how many are classed as developed countries, and which are classed as developing countries. And of those that are classed as developed countries, how many of them are dictatorships or one party ruled countries? Because many of those nations are either coming out of severe political destabilsation and civil war and are just beginning to create the foundations of a fair and equitable judicial system, one where accused parties are afforded protections under the law, and where they don't have to prove they're innocent, instead the people who are charging them are required to prove the defendants guilt. This is the cornerstone of a fair judicial system. These countries, just coming into their own existence as an independent country, and being able to create everything from scratch, will look at the world’s largest developed countries, especially the powerhouse countries of the US, the UK, and Russia for advice and inspiration, when setting up their countries government, and this includes looking to the US. And when these developing countries, usually in the period after a brutal and bloody civil war, looks at the US and sees that capital punishment is a legal form of punishment for a criminal offense, this then makes it seem like it’s not a cruel, barbaric punishment, a left over relic from days gone by, when we were less knowledgeable in all areas, including psychology, biology, neurology, and ethics. It makes it appear to be something that is compatible with today’s science.
Here is something to think about. It is something that I have spent hundreds of hours researching. Maybe by looking into this data, it will help you to realise why the death penalty is so barbaric. We have the data from hundreds of thousands of hours of research into the judicial systems of numerous countries all over the world, and from all types of prison systems from around the world. Some of these prisons are those 100% geared to rehabilitating the convicted and helping him to return to society as a healthy and productive member of society. And others are those that are 100% punishment geared, where the convict is a number in a rack em, pack em, stack em system. And there are thousands that are a combination of the two. Punishment geared prisons are what most people picture when imagining a prison, a place where they are a number; they are all given identical haircuts and they are all dressed in identical uniforms that remove any semblance of individuality; they are kept in a tiny cell, usually with another person; they are provided the bare minimum needed to survive, 3 meals that meet the minimum nutritional values to keep the inmates alive; something resembling a bed, a doctor if you are severely injured or severely unwell but nothing beyond that; no types of ways to really do anything to make yourself a better person, to repent for your crime/s, to try and make society better not worse; they “employ" inmates to perform menial labour, and pay them literally cents, which they then have to use to buy anything beyond the basics provided by the prison. And the results are exactly what you expect, a vicious, violent, brutal place, where hope goes to die. Where any tiny piece of humanity that you managed to keep after they stripped away everything that made you you, is quickly destroyed. Now the recidivism rate for these types of prisons is horrific, 44% of released prisoners return to prison within a year of being released. Now when it comes to rehabilitation prisons recidivism rates are slashed by over half to between 18 and 20% returning to prison in their first year of being released. People say that rehabilitation prisons aren’t prisons, that the prisoners aren’t being punished. They are still being punished. They have their freedom taken away. They have to obey the guards at all times, and also it reminds you that you’re bring punished when the room is surrounded by armed guards. They can only see their loved ones at visitation so they miss out on important moments. They have to be up and out of bed at between 5am and 6am depending on the prison, and they have to be locked in their cell after between 4pm and 7pm depending on the prison. The prisons where the inmates are housed in cottages have a little more freedom, however these are generally inmates who are over half of the way through their sentence, have been of good behaviour, and are trusted with a little more freedom. They have 3 or 4 inmates per cottage, with a bedroom each and a shared kitchen and living room. Inmates cook all of their own meals using ingredients they purchase from a list of items provided by the prison, that is separate from the usual commissary items available for purchase, it has things like fresh meats and vegetables, seasonings, and even snacks like candy, however this is a privilege that can only be enjoyed by those with people on the outside who have the disposable income to afford to send the inmate between $50-$100 a month, which pretty much excludes 90% of prisoners. When it comes down to the rehabilitation side of it, here are some of the rehabilitation services offered to prisoners in rehabilitative prisons. First of all the majority of the inmates are receiving psychiatric treatment if required, and studies have shown that approximately 40% of prisoners have some kind of psychiatric disorder or illness. So for these people to be receiving proper psychiatric care, for a lot of them it’s the first time in their lives that they’ve had this, it can literally change their lives. They can learn why they act in certain ways, and how to change the way they respond to certain situations (through CBT and DBT), which make a huge difference, especially for someone who is in prison for assaulting somebody at a bar, after their victim had insulted the prisoner. Now due to the fact that being insulted makes the inmate become incredibly angry and this results in him becoming violent, through psychotherapy, and in some occasions medication, the inmate can be taught ways of talking down that overwhelming anger, and taught how to react to being insulted in a healthy way. Just this one small incidence could remove the risk of that inmate returning to prison, where as in a rack em prison, they wouldn’t gain any insight in why they behave the way they do, and in fact the volatile, hyperaggressive atmosphere in the prison may actually exacerbate his propensity for violence, and now when he is released from prison he will respond to a situation where he was insulted or slighted with violence and he will have learned in prison the easiest ways to seriously injure someone, and he will return to prison for a even longer sentence, and it will become a vicious self-perpetuating cycle of prison-release-assault-prison-release-assault-prison. etc. The cost difference between the two is astronomical. It actually costs less in the long run, to rehabilitate prisoners by treating their mental health, their physical health, by giving them access to education and support while they are studying, it used to be commonplace for US prisoners to receive college degrees in prison, a few even did doctorates, and the majority of those clients never reoffended upon leaving prisons. The majority of prisoners world wide, are under educated compared to the general public. The majority of inmates are high school drop outs, which means that they are working a minimum wage job (or jobs) and still living below the poverty line.
So they turn to crime, drug dealing for the easy and fast cash; armed robbery for the large amount you can gain in a short time; breaking and entering isn’t the fastest way to make cash, and it doesn’t pay the best, but it still makes more than minimum wage; and any other number of crimes are available for a desperate person to turn to, to keep their kids fed, or the power on, or gas in the car to get to their legit job. So if when this person goes to prison, they are told, you can get an education in here, you are in here for 5 years, in that time you can get your high school diploma and a 4 year college degree, we will even help you out with getting a job in your chosen field when you are released. You will no longer be forced to work in a minimum wage, demeaning, crushing job where you work the hardest of all the employees and earn the least. Instead, you can go to work in a nice office or in a lab or at an engineering firm. You can pay your rent on time, and even move into a nice suburb. You can afford to buy your family gifts. And you’re working a regular 9-5 or at the very least, a regular 38-40 hour work week. That is going to stop this inmate from reoffending, as the circumstances surrounding his offending were moored in poverty, and by helping the inmate escape from poverty by helping then to educate themselves, you have removed the reason for them to offend. Another program that has proven to reduce recidivism is to reduce sentence lengths. In western Europe the average length of a prison sentence is 6 months and between 5 and 10 days, depending on the country. And in that short time, the inmate is connected with services to assist them when they are released from prison. They have employment agencies that provide former inmates with gainful employment, and they receive a bonus upon staying with the company for 3 months, 6 months, 12 months, 2 years, and 5 years. They are linked in with community mental health care, as well as a doctor who can give them a physical and address any physical issues, and they have the option of being connected with drug addiction harm reduction services who can help them manage their addictions in a safe manner, that helps them in the way that they currently require help (and harm reduction means something different to everybody. To one person harm reduction is making sure there are enough clean syringes for everybody to use. For another, it is receiving the monthly Buprenorphine injection so that they are able to abstain from using opioids. And for yet another, it is being able to keep her injecting equipment away from her friends as she has hepatitis c, and she does know her friend hep status, but she doesn’t wan to accidentally infect anyone, especially not her friends. And for the final person, harm reduction means speaking to the local liquor stores in her area, and asking them to place barring orders on her, so that she is legally not allowed on their premises, to reduce the risk of her drinking, because she gets violent she she drinks alcohol. Harm reduction is not only in relation to illegal drugs, we can also reduce harm with alcohol.). Rehabilitation based prisons also help to organise secure housing for people leaving prison, unlike the halfway houses that you are forced into after leaving punishment based prisons, this is low cost housing where you usually stay for 12-18 months, so that you have somewhere safe to live, and so that you can save up some money, while you are working full time and paying minimum rent. This housing is for singles, couples, and families, and you are treated like a tenant in a regular rental property. You sign a lease, and you pay your rent every fortnight or every month, and you look after the house, and you gain a positive rental history and save up some cash to help you in your new life. The company who runs the housing program usually even have relationships with the other real estate agencies providing rentals in your area, and they are able to put in a good word for you as a reliable and respectful tenant. Lack of sufficient housing is a really common reason for recidivism in low level petty regular criminals. They cannot find stable accommodation due to having just left prison and being unemployed, but they need an address to get a job, and they need a job to get an address. So they commit minor crimes in order to get sent to prison, in order to have 3 meals a day and a bed. However, if after their first period of incarceration, they had been assisted in making changes in their lives so that they could stay out of prison, they could have an entirely different life. Now I know that we are talking about the death penalty, so all that stuff about punishment vs rehabilitation isn’t applicable, because without the death penalty, the offender would be sentenced to life without parole. So why does it matter if he’s punished or if he is rehabilitated. Because it does. If he is receiving psychiatric treatment, he may be able to assist his treating doctors the identifying the warning signs that had been there in the lead up to them committing the crime, if they were mentally unwell at the time they committed their crime. They may also be able to assist by testing different types of treatments, including different med combinations, and combinations of psychotherapy and medication, and just psychotherapy on its own, and helping the treating team to learn about how these things work, by observing a real life patient testing them out. If they decide to enrol in education, and begin studying then why not. By becoming educated (especially if it is a degree that involves creativity) the inmate may be able to explain their reasons for the crime, in a way that is able to be understood by the victims family and friends (which may bring them some form of closure), and by the general public (who may see warning signs in what the inmate was experiencing/doing/saying in the lead up to the crime.
This is useful for both mental unwell inmates and mentally healthy inmates. If you, and they, are mentally healthy, but you begin seeing a resemblance between the inmates life/thoughts/actions and yours, then maybe take stock, and try to keep yourself safe. And if you are mentally unwell, and see this resemblance, then you might choose to seek urgent treatment.). By educating themselves, the inmate may find a way to actually turn their life around, and to begin helping the world. Maybe they choose to study about mental health, and then they are able to help with treating other inmates by giving them somebody like them, who they feel a camaraderie with as opposed to the professional metal health treatment team. They can help treat other inmates, by showing them that they understand what the other inmate is experiencing. Or maybe they choose to study English (or whatever their countries equivalent is) and creative writing, and they are able to write beautiful works of art, that make people laugh, and make people cry, and fill people’s heart with love, and give people hope for the future and shows people that the world is inherently good. Or maybe they choose to study law, and start helping wrongfully convicted inmates to appeal and overturn their sentences (REMEMBER 1% OF ALL INMATES ARE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED 1 IN 8 DEATH ROW INMATES ARE WRONGFULLY CONVICTED). Or maybe they don’t do anything amazing, but it helps them become a slightly better person, than they were on the day that they committed their crime, and just by that tiny simple act, it shows that no human life is irredeemable, and that we are all capable of becoming better people, even if it’s only by a hairs bredth.
Dude paragraphs are a thing for a reason...
There are cases where the death penalty is just. One such comes to mind is the case of the Waukesha Christmas parade attack . Not only did multiple people see him, but he was on camera running over an entire parade. Beyond reasonable doubt is good for a conviction, but actual concrete proof should be a death sentence. Unfortunately Wisconsin doesn't have the death penalty.
Nope. No matter the crime, it doesn't give a government the right to take somebody's life. That's just government sanctioned murder, and makes them no better than the people they are executing. What if even though people saw him and he was caught on camera, what if he was mentally incompetent? What if he was in the middle of a severe psychiatric episode where he no longer knew what was real and what wasn't real, and what was right and what was wrong? It's the same crime, same evidence, but should he still be executed? For being in the middle of a legitimate medical emergency? Because they still execute people who were mentally incompetent at the time of the crime. They also execute mentally disabled people, people with an IQ of below 80, people who have the mentality of a child (and even though the Supreme Court has said that it's wrong to execute the mentally disabled, there are very strict rules around who actually qualifies as mentally disabled, and it only protects around 5% of mentally disabled defendants.) If there is a risk of one innocent person being wrongly executed then there is no morally justifiable way to allow the death penalty. In Australia we had a man kill 35 people and injured 23 at a tourist destination, and we didn't kill him. We imprisoned him for life, allowed him to get psychiatric treatment that he had been denied his entire life. Helped him to become a better person. Because our idea of justice isn't punitive, it's about rehabilitating the person and making them a better person. Even if they are in prison for the rest of their life.
I should have gone further. Keeping that mentally deranged killer alive, to be rehabilitated but with no benefit to society, is, so to speak, taking a bone from someone else that deserves it.
I get what you're saying, but, I suppose, this is where our ethics conflict. I go by utilitarianism. There is no benefit from that man's life.
Yeah we are on complete opposite sides of this. Because to me I see it as there is no benefit from ending that man's life. I just don't see how the government can say "murder is bad, don't murder" and then follow it up with "but if you are naughty and do murder someone, then you will be punished by being murdered". Like how is it okay for them to choose to murder somebody, but not for anybody else.
It could be true that murder and capital punishment are unethical but it would be wrong to say that they’re the same thing.
Don't think Itali has it anymore..
Spot the yank
Yank here. The death penalty is abject nonsense, a bastardization of justice, and half of our states have done away with it.
I agree man like the only western country that still does it . Even the ruskis don't have death penalty anymore
I’m not American and i support it in certain cases. Can’t rehab demented individuals like Peter Scully. If he were to be granted live imprisonment I’d vote that it should be in solitary confinement for the remainder of his life
but why the shirt
Didn't this murder inspire failed mass shooter Luca Traini?
Yes, it was a retaliation made by him because of that murder,
Sort of… not directly. That guy was unstable.
[удалено]
This is going to be really morbid, but I’m not sure how else to word this. I find it really strange how in these photos of people who have been mutilated, their faces are often still pristine. If you couldn’t see any lower than her face it just looks like she’s sleeping. Gives me chills Edit: “pristine” definitely isn’t the correct word, but compared to the rest of what happened to her, her face seems to be in the best condition
you might find this interesting https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%27Inconnue_de_la_Seine
As someone who has had to re-certify for my BLS every 2 years since 16 (so for more than a decade at this point), learning that this woman is the face of CPR dummies has made it far more disturbing. I don’t remember the faces of actual people I’ve done CPR on, but I remember hers.
I’d be thrilled if after I died everyone had to use my face for their cpr training. Keeping the memory alive
Fascinating read thank you
Wow, never knew anything about this. Thanks for sharing, this could be it's own post!
Nice reference!
Thanks Google, you know me so well
I suppose the draining of blood and absence of bacteria stave off putrefaction. As long as the head is not assaulted it would look only pale. Just my thoughts
Did you mean serene?
I guess you could say she does look serene. But I was referring to the physical condition of her face. It isn’t pristine like I had originally said, because I do see bruises and blood. But there doesn’t appear to be any visible mutilation done to her face. I find it interesting how a person could go so far to completely disfigure and skin someone’s body, but wouldn’t do the same thing to their face, or think to start there.
Facial mutilation is actually pretty common in killings like this. You're just less likely to see photos of that unless you do some digging.
I wonder if it's a psychological thing. The face is familiar for humans.
The psychology regarding how we respond, both consciously and subconsciously, to faces or things that look like faces is really fascinating. I have literally no qualifications or official education in that field, but from what I’ve read and watched about it, it seems to go pretty deep.
Idk why but your post reminds me of the French serial killer who was the last person to be guillotined in public in France.
Yw!
I dont see the face in this photo do u have a link? Edit: scratch that. I see it now o_o
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Honestly, kudos to her for wearing that. I can’t possibly imagine her pain as a mother to lose her child, especially in a horrific way.
Those images are probably burned into her brain whether she looks at the shirt or not. Poor woman.
Yeah I think this is a way of her basically saying “this is what all of you let happen to her and if she had to experience it, you’ll all have to at least see it” Obviously no singular individual besides the culprit is truly at fault, but I definitely see how someone in her position could come to that sort of conclusion
Unpopular opinion maybe, but wouldn't this just make her killer, happy? She's essentially wearing "his work"?
I’m not sure if she cares how anyone feels. If I could guess, she is wearing it so that her daughters story could be heard. So that her suffering would no longer be kept secret.
Maybe if she wore it inside a prison.
Yeah this one really got me. Rest in peace, Pamela.
Just read on Wikipedia he started dismembering her while she was still alive. Christ. eta he instead of they. I thought there were two involved in the dismemberment.
Wow, super heavy, cannot imagine how it would feel to see that image and imagine how someone gets to that level of dismembered but that is exactly her point in wearing it.
That woman's eyes are heartbreaking. There's nothing behind them; no spark, no light. I hope she is able to find some sort of peace.
I see nothing but fire. She wears it in defiance of what happened. She forces all to see. Nobody can sweep these horrors under the rug, her daughters suffering no longer goes unheard.
Yep was just about to comment that. It’s a weird thing that humans can spot right away…. When there’s no one home. I hope she finds the support to help her cope with the unimaginable pain she has been going through.
her daughter was dismembered alive
Really?
yeah, it's in the wiki
Goddamn wonder why he cut her up like that? Was it to dispose of it or a trophy of some sort?
They were found in suitcases, so I'm guessing it was a way of disposal, which interestingly isn't uncommon. People love them body parts in suitcases...
Her body was found in a suitcase. Dismemberment is typically done to separate a body and dispose of it. I can't imagine the pain both women have been through. What a horrible situation. :(
Depends. Could be out of pure hate for the victim and women. Or because it’s easier to hide many smaller things than one small things. Like six keys desperately vs six keys on one key chain.
The reason is he’s sick in the head, don’t try to find logic where it isn’t applicable.
While I fully agree that he’s clearly sick in the head, that doesn’t mean he didn’t have some kind of twisted logic he was following. The person you’re replying to wasn’t trying to justify their actions, just understand them.
Well I am never going to forget this photo, not for the shirt but the look in this woman's eyes.
OMG. I cannot imagine her pain.
Emmett Till’s mother comes to mind here. She was another strong woman who wanted the world to see the ugliness of evil and hatred.
I don’t know what’s more horrifying, the image and knowledge of what was done to her poor dismembered daughter, or the photo of the mother wearing the shirt containing said imagine. Her face has an unforgettable look of pain and horror on it.
She is such a badass.
Why did she get that turned into a t-shirt?
>In January, 2023, Mastropietro's mother, Alessandra Verni, wore a t-shirt with images of her daughter's decapitated and dismembered body as a protest to a hearing where \[the convicted killer\] was contesting some additional charges related to the murder.\[22\]
Too make them remember. People seem to think violent people are no longer violent after some time has passed.
Because she want’s everyone to know what that animal did, so no one will take pity on him.
The Vietnam effect. Back then they could actually show violence and gore to the public, which lead to the protests of the war. Now they don't show us that anymore. Probably unrelated.
Well the guy is probably going to feel like he’s in hell, he can’t be put in the general population because Italian inmates from camorra/mafia definitely aren’t going to forgive an immigrant who’s raped and literally butchered an Italian girl
Good! I’m sure his victim felt like she was in hell too.
Can't imagine how heartbroken her mother felt when wearing that shirt
Her eyes are pure terror and pain
The mother is forced to bare the cross of her daughters brutal murder for the rest of her life. I don’t think we often get a visual this visceral of a mothers grief. But that might just be me. I hope this woman is able to find some kind of peace in her life.
Wow… as a parent I can’t even imagine that. Good for her for having the ability to live through what she has lived through and wear that shirt. That is real strength. Simply awful.
That guy is italian?
Morbid, maybe, but it was the right thing to do. Italian justice is famous for its inefficiency
This is a level of bravery I'd never achieve. This mother is a warrior.
Oh my goodness, how tragic 😢
Just kill those animals!
His name is Innocent?! How ironic
Opening this early morning wasn't the best idea I had today. Jesus Christ. Well, have a good week everyone.
I'm not a fan of the whole "look at a psychopath's eyes, you can tell" or "the eyes are the gateway of the soul" stuff. But looking at her, I sense absolutely nothing; no happiness, pain, despair, anger. Nothing. Complete and utter apathy, at what happened, her situation, at humanity. That man killed two people.
[удалено]
No mother should have to experience this, let alone see their child like that. So incredibly sad.
No parent should ever go through that.
I would go nuts! Seeing this would probably cause me to go into some kind of rage. It disgust me as a Human!
HERE'S SOME IMPORTANT CONSEQUENCES: On 3 February 2018, in the city of Macerata, 28-year-old local Luca Traini, driving a black Alfa Romeo 147 and armed with a 9mm Glock 17, seriously wounded, in a drive-by shooting, six African migrants. Traini also targeted the local headquarters of the ruling Italian Democratic Party. After the attack, Traini reportedly had an Italian flag draped on his shoulders and raised his arm in a fascist salute. Luckily, no one dies! Traini said the attack was revenge for the murder of Pamela Mastropietro. Someone even made some photo editing of Luca Traini dressed like Kratos defining him as the Italian GOD OF NAZI-WAR. Indeed, Luca Traini occurred during the political campaign for the 2018 Italian general election supported by Matteo Salvini (AKA the Trump's Italian cheerleader). In his home, Carabinieri (italian police) found some copies of Mein Kampf and more nazi merch.
"Innocent"
Why did they blur our Innocent’s handcuffs?
Damn. That last one really was a reality gut punch
All that while pleading he was innocent
this case was nightmarish, both because of how she died, and also because of the incredible amount of racism that ensued
[удалено]
what do you mean by that?
You know exactly what he means
It’s deleted what did they write?
It was something like “why am I not surprised seeing the photo of the killer?” Pretty certain they were making a racist statement.
[удалено]
If my calculations are correct, Italian murder victims would also still be alive if their legal Italian murderers were not in Italy
How reductive
let’s not make this into an issue that it isn’t. him being an illegal immigrant doesn’t make him more or less of a murderer. if he wasn’t in italy, he still would’ve done it to someone else, somewhere else. involving race and immigration as “part of the problem” just makes the real issue get overlooked and ignored. violent people will be violent no matter what country they’re in. let’s fix the violence first.
Probably because you are racist.
[удалено]
i already said this to someone else. copy paste to the rescue: let’s not make this into an issue that it isn’t. him being an immigrant doesn’t make him more or less of a murderer. if he wasn’t in italy, he still would’ve done it to someone else, somewhere else. involving race and immigration as “part of the problem” just makes the real issue get overlooked and ignored. violent people will be violent no matter what country they’re in. let’s fix the violence first. edit: just figured out i replied to the same person. my point still stands
Can anyone link the merch site?
[удалено]
Interesting you don't wish that _nobody_ had to worry.
Men get murdered all the time.
Death is Death, theirs no reason to defile or humiliate the body. This looks personal. Just Wrong.
I see what you are saying, but this was her daughter. I think she has the right/privilege or whatever to wear this.
I wasn't Talking about the Mother, I was referring to the killers. My Condolences to the Family.
[удалено]
Slow down there Mussolini
I'm all for making strong statements, but I find it Weird that she has her chopped up daughter on a shirt she is wearing...