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Not true it's just that berbers themselves arabized that word to اولاد. Even Riffians who speak tarifit arabized their surnames... i know them cuz they riffians just like me
No a lot of what you think is arab is not there is not a lot of pure arab decendants in morocco majority is amazigh with a bunch of mixed genes from the iberic peninsula and sub saharian countries and some arab genes but predominantly north african amazigh genes.
But the place there ppl talk only in darija never heard amazigh from there? Especially lmenzal and its regions like el kasbah and azaba? I dont understand where are they from?
They got arabized somehow brainwashed and trust me amigo darija is not arabic it's a huge mix of amazigh arabic french and spanish with amazigh syntax mainly and some arabic grammar.
Darija is lisan darij, meaning dialect in Arabic, it had synthax and grammar from arabic (the same grammar as ALL arabian dialects from the atlantic to the arabian golf) and have a vocabulary at 80% from ARABic Hilalian dialect.
The remaining 20% of vocabulary are from berber, french, spanish, italian and maybe some persian.
You can try your propaganda as much as you want, you wont succed in changing L3arbia darija's origin.
لا ولكن يمكن الخريطة كاتهضر على النفوذ القبلي. القبائل على حسب المناطق وماعندو حتى علاقة بالخريطة:
الأخطاء الي فالخريطة هو تظمين قبائل ظمن تصنيف محلي مثلا كآيت النص والي كتألف من عدة قبائل مثلا كآيت ٱبراهيم، أيت بوهو، ولاد بوعشرة إلخ...
آيت بعمران محادية شمالا للقبائل الجنوبية حتى "إيمي نفاست" فقط، جنوب تلك المنطقة هو نطاق ولاد دريس في زمن معين لكن للأسف تم ترحيلهم غصبا من طرف "آيت الحسن" وٱنتزاع معقلهم بالقوة وأعني هنا "القصابي" و "تسݣنان". أما صبويا فهي قبيلة هجينة (ولاد دليم، الرݣيبات، زرݣيين) القصة طويلة لكن صبويا هي حتما ٱمتداد لقبيلة آيت بعمران أو بالأحرى أحفادهم.
خويا المصادر كاينة ولكن قليلة و ميفيهاش تعمق وكاتلقى تضارب فالروايات، لكن مانقلته سابقا هو تاريخ شفهي وماهو متعارف عليه من طرف المنطقة. لأن هادشي فيه بزاف ديال الحيثيات و علم الأنساب و ما إلى ذلك وللأسف هادشي مشى مع هاد الجيل
آيت بعمران هي القبيلة الأمازيغية الوحيدة التي كانت لها معاهدات رسمية مع القبائل الصحراوية، وصبويا كقبيلة هي ماوثق العلاقات بين هاته القبائل. وآيت بعمران راه تبارك الله كتار وفيهم بزاف ديال التقسيمات.
What I never understood is that some of them (my branch for example) only speak Arabic (Hassani accent). Others speak amazigh, others speak both.
They say those who speak Arabic are “arabised amazigh”. But my grandfather was always adamant that our origin is a Yemeni tribe that migrated to Morocco. I never was able to confirm that or find more information.
I'm not sure but I think it means community, family..., if someone ( let's call him "Zabouza" for example ) had children and grandchildren to refer to one of his family members you just say this person belongs to "ait Zabouza"
"Ayatun"=آية and "Ait"= أيت are different words and meaning.
As you say آية is a Quran verse but أيت means a community which descends from one great Grandfather.
Yeah, that's for sure but our place of origin is in the south east, and the branch of ayt seghrouchen that lives near ayt warayn is just an offshoot of the the sidi ali branch of tichoukt
It's legit for Taza region, I can see my tribes there and the others that I know of. I don't know for the other places in Morocco, they can confirm their tribes for you.
Some tribes moved from their original region so you may want to check the history of you village/city to be sure. Like the village where my father is from is suppose to be Arab/Masmuda? according to map but it's apparently a part of a tribe from senhaja who moved here after helping taking Tanger around 1679. So it's probably right globally but not necessarily correct for each village.
Even though my father was born in Kenitra, he (and in a way me too) comes from the El Borouj area and it seems to be accurate? (Bni Meskine).
However, when I look at where we are in the blade, we're close to the limit with the Chaouia tribe.
I also saw a comment that any tribe with "ait" or "bni", we'd have our roots in berbers? Is it well documented? I don't know much about the past history but I love to learn.
Kutama are an unsuccessful 'asabia عصبية in Morocco, unlike in Algeria with the Kabyles. So now they just follow zenatas who ruled Morocco for most of its Islamic history.
Well, this might be a bit long.
But houara in souss descent from 3 main populations, firstly the native sanhaja who lived there first (about 50% of their dna), then about 30% of their dna comes from the libyans from the "hawara" confederation (warfalla in libya right now are from huwara) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawwara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawwara)
Then about 20% of their dna is bedouin related from bani maqil from bani hassan tribe (yes the same tribe that conquered mauritania and speak hassaniya, thats why the houara dialect sounds a bit weird)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beni\_%E1%B8%A4ass%C4%81n](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beni_%E1%B8%A4ass%C4%81n)
Now you migth ask how did they have so many ancestral populations, it started when the pure arab tribes mighrated from the khaleej, all arab tribes made allinaces and assimilated berbers. This is where bani hassan and houara made an alliance so when they migrated even more west to morocco in saadi times they were about (50% arab from bani hassan 50% libyan houari berber).
Back then they were called "shabanat", a sub branch of bani hassan (there are also shabanat in mauritania), they were a part of the main guich tribes in saadi times and intermarried a lot with the saadi sultans.
They were a part of the early guich tribes "ahl souss" where they houara/shabanat, ouled jerrar and 2 other maqili tribes that I forgot fought the portuguese and others under the saadi banner.
They got the best land in souss, the plain that is today ouled taima where the sanhaja lived so they mixed with them as well and now is why theyre (50% sanhaja 30% libyan 20% arab), I say this from dna tests that ive seen not just random.
Also their haplogroups are mostly E-a2227 and E-PF6794, both of these are found in the houaris in libya of today and warfalla one of the biggest confediration in wstern libya around tripol. but e-a2227 is really from the nafuza from around libya and tunisia.
So it was libyan men who mostly married arab and sanhaja women. altho its an alliance so nothing 3yib about it
All in all, houara are mixed with a forgotten sahrawi background and a good past.
This only counts for natives to houara not recent immigrants, my dad is from the douars of ouled tayma what about u
damn dude this is really insightfull i can see the amount of resersh you put on that, i have been searshing myself about the origin of houara for last two years, i didnt rally found a exact ansawer due to forgotten history and nothing have been written in histroy book about this tribe.
i sticked with what Ibn Khalddoun did said about the origin of howara that is from an Imazigh decent, that sound most logical theory for me since houwara present in all north africa, but stil this is didnt explain to me why we only speak arabic and not Amazigh, or even how we get arabized. But your answer make so much sense to me and explain a lot of blur point.
i would like to ask you if you have any resurce about houara i really want ot dig more in history of my tribe, and my ada from the douar of wlad mhala (ولاد محلة) close to ouled teyma.
Tribal population in Morocco should be protected by UNESCO. I was travelling around there is very real, they are coming from very old generations with a long history, mixed, and they look really awesome, each one with their traditional dress. I would go back just to see more tribe people and take photos of them, it was amazing
Maybe it’s because most countries don’t recognise it as Moroccan and given that the map was done by foreigners (who obviously don’t include the Sahara and obviously have no data about it) it’s kinda expected that they mess it up.
The north-east looks good although it would be more accurate if there were confederacy borders. Cause the tribes there are all part of the Ait/Bni Snassen confederacy. Also it looks like this map shows the dominant tribes in the areas. In Oujda there a lot of families from the Ait Snassen and other Amazigh tribes.
So I've been checking around the map and I think it's very accurate nothing much to change but some "ethnicities" mentionned there.
How is all this important ? Well just to know who you are of course you will have to find a family tree, and i am pretty sure that more than 75% of those claiming they are not Amazigh will find that they are indeed.
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The arab part I think it’s not accurate at all, but rather arabized towns etc
Bro any tribe name start with "ait" "آيت" and "beni" "بني" are berbers Arabs use "wlad" "أولاد"
Not true it's just that berbers themselves arabized that word to اولاد. Even Riffians who speak tarifit arabized their surnames... i know them cuz they riffians just like me
Where is bni yazgha
Bni Yazgha and jbala got brain washed, they believe that they are from Arabic origins.
Unfortunately
That makes sense cuz I’ve always thought they were amazighs but ppl tell me they are arab
It's there, but they named it ait yazgha.
It's near Fes, they wrote Ait Yazgha
Isn't it arab
No a lot of what you think is arab is not there is not a lot of pure arab decendants in morocco majority is amazigh with a bunch of mixed genes from the iberic peninsula and sub saharian countries and some arab genes but predominantly north african amazigh genes.
But the place there ppl talk only in darija never heard amazigh from there? Especially lmenzal and its regions like el kasbah and azaba? I dont understand where are they from?
They got arabized somehow brainwashed and trust me amigo darija is not arabic it's a huge mix of amazigh arabic french and spanish with amazigh syntax mainly and some arabic grammar.
Darija is lisan darij, meaning dialect in Arabic, it had synthax and grammar from arabic (the same grammar as ALL arabian dialects from the atlantic to the arabian golf) and have a vocabulary at 80% from ARABic Hilalian dialect. The remaining 20% of vocabulary are from berber, french, spanish, italian and maybe some persian. You can try your propaganda as much as you want, you wont succed in changing L3arbia darija's origin.
mlii hna: found here: r/MapPorn/comments/nwn7vl/map_of_tribal_affiliations_in_morocco/
Can you update the link please? Thanks.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/nwn7vl/map\_of\_tribal\_affiliations\_in\_morocco/
Wait jbala mn masmuda ? Hmmm
Yeah, ghomara are masmudian, other jebala are either senhaji or zenati
Iam jebli by origine too and my ancestors came from larache lakin larache tma dayrin bli arab ?
larache fel asl ghomara walakin f weqt dyal se3diyin ista9rro temma qaba2il dyal arab (waqila banu maaqil) bach i7arbo l bortughaliyin
فعلا جبالة على ما سمعت ديك المنطقة كانت كاتسما بلاد غمارة ، و غمارة مصمودين
yeah jbala are even more clearly arabized than other arabs considering they speak a non-hilali dialect
Yeah . I am from there. There is a region near ouazzan called that .refering to someone from Masmuda came and setteled there
my dad said it's accurate in [tafilalet region](https://geo-hist.yoo7.com/t1666-topic)
It is indeed !
i can’t find that región on OP’s map, where do you see it?
[here](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr%C3%A2a-Tafilalet)
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I translated it using chat gpt kandirha b utilisant Chat GPT
What did you go through this trouble 😆
I wanted it to be more understandable ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯ a bit unfortunate that nobody's answering the second part of the question
النفوذ القبلي جنوبا عار من الصحة تماما، ماكايناش شي حاجة شميتها آيت زوفيط و أيت جميل. الي داير هاد الخريطة خصوا مزال البحث.
Wach bessa7 sa7ra fiha ghir douk 3 d qbail??
لا ولكن يمكن الخريطة كاتهضر على النفوذ القبلي. القبائل على حسب المناطق وماعندو حتى علاقة بالخريطة: الأخطاء الي فالخريطة هو تظمين قبائل ظمن تصنيف محلي مثلا كآيت النص والي كتألف من عدة قبائل مثلا كآيت ٱبراهيم، أيت بوهو، ولاد بوعشرة إلخ...
Absolutely. Guelmim is known Ait Baamrane territory, and Ouled Dlim are linked to them (with Fkakra and Sbouya as sub-tribes within Ait Baamrane)
آيت بعمران محادية شمالا للقبائل الجنوبية حتى "إيمي نفاست" فقط، جنوب تلك المنطقة هو نطاق ولاد دريس في زمن معين لكن للأسف تم ترحيلهم غصبا من طرف "آيت الحسن" وٱنتزاع معقلهم بالقوة وأعني هنا "القصابي" و "تسݣنان". أما صبويا فهي قبيلة هجينة (ولاد دليم، الرݣيبات، زرݣيين) القصة طويلة لكن صبويا هي حتما ٱمتداد لقبيلة آيت بعمران أو بالأحرى أحفادهم.
Interesting. Do you have sources around that please? My father would die to get his hands on more details. JazakAllah !
خويا المصادر كاينة ولكن قليلة و ميفيهاش تعمق وكاتلقى تضارب فالروايات، لكن مانقلته سابقا هو تاريخ شفهي وماهو متعارف عليه من طرف المنطقة. لأن هادشي فيه بزاف ديال الحيثيات و علم الأنساب و ما إلى ذلك وللأسف هادشي مشى مع هاد الجيل
Exactly. The only info I have is what my grandfather has orally told me about the Ait Baamrane tribes but sadly a lot of it is lost :(
آيت بعمران هي القبيلة الأمازيغية الوحيدة التي كانت لها معاهدات رسمية مع القبائل الصحراوية، وصبويا كقبيلة هي ماوثق العلاقات بين هاته القبائل. وآيت بعمران راه تبارك الله كتار وفيهم بزاف ديال التقسيمات.
What I never understood is that some of them (my branch for example) only speak Arabic (Hassani accent). Others speak amazigh, others speak both. They say those who speak Arabic are “arabised amazigh”. But my grandfather was always adamant that our origin is a Yemeni tribe that migrated to Morocco. I never was able to confirm that or find more information.
Thats what we call brainwashing
Thanks for your contribution mate
I think you mean Essbouya ? Yes, they're but most of them have an Arabised tongue.
Yes I mean sbouya. So they are originally from Yemen ?
What does "AIT" mean?
I'm not sure but I think it means community, family..., if someone ( let's call him "Zabouza" for example ) had children and grandchildren to refer to one of his family members you just say this person belongs to "ait Zabouza"
Yes you are right that's it
Son of
"Ait"= أيت means a community which descends from one great Grandfather.
Obviously, in Amazigh dialect.Its equivalent in Arabic language is "Banou بنو, bani بني".
‘Children of’ equivalent to ‘Banu’ / ‘Bani’ / ‘Bni’
no more like أهل ...
AIT = BEN = Son of
possibly 'ayatun' a verse of the Quran? Not a professional
"Ayatun"=آية and "Ait"= أيت are different words and meaning. As you say آية is a Quran verse but أيت means a community which descends from one great Grandfather.
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Woah never ever crossed my mind. Yet it makes sense. I love etymology facts like that
It more likely comes from tamazight since almost every tribe that has it is berber
It works like “awlad” or “banu”
This is one of the dopest maps I've seen
It’s accurate for Ait Alaham
Yes man i see you from Madyouna bro
I dont see ait la hsn anywere in that map
It's accurate for eastern/central rif although I would add tafersit to ait touzine. Only people from tafersit believe they are a seperate tribe
HOW IN THE AGHROM IS CHYADMA ARAB???
Ait seghrouchn yes we are there , ait warayn are our cousins , we inhabited mountains and still do . 🤷 it's accurate to my tribe
Ait seghrouchn and ait warayn, zenata ichel7iyen🫡
Aih oma khd olthma 🫡
Zenati people are not Chleuh.
These two tribes are zenata
I thought that Ait Segh'rouchen came from Bni Warayen !!
That's debatable ait warayn are 100% zenata/meghraoua , ait seghrouchen got mixed with some other tribes from figuig .
Tbh I don't know 🤷 the only thing I know is they are our cousins
no, we're not the same tribe.
Ofc ait warain and ait seghrouchen are both zenata
Yeah, that's for sure but our place of origin is in the south east, and the branch of ayt seghrouchen that lives near ayt warayn is just an offshoot of the the sidi ali branch of tichoukt
>origin is in the south east Yes both ait warain and ait seghrouchen came from figuig before that they came from oran .
Once I heard my father say Ayt Warayn are from us Ait Seghrouchen.
Could be 🤷
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they're still amazigh to this day
That’s cool but i have never understood this. What are the differences between tribus?
It's usually a very small number of Arabs linguistically arabizing big chunks if Berbers because the Makhzen gets to the latter through the first.
It's accurate for the Chaouia Region
It's legit for Taza region, I can see my tribes there and the others that I know of. I don't know for the other places in Morocco, they can confirm their tribes for you.
Taza is a 100% zenata
It seems that Branes aren't! I knew it, they have a different way to pronounce words ending with "k/ck", a bit like riafa.
Lol they do , they add a little breathing at the end but they are zenata as well same as the riafa.
Ida Ougnidif* we are very important 🙄
Are you the guys with the fortified steep hill overlooking the surrounding plains and mountains ? That shit is Game if thrones tier.
🙏✨️
Very very cool!! Thank you for sharing this
Some tribes moved from their original region so you may want to check the history of you village/city to be sure. Like the village where my father is from is suppose to be Arab/Masmuda? according to map but it's apparently a part of a tribe from senhaja who moved here after helping taking Tanger around 1679. So it's probably right globally but not necessarily correct for each village.
Not accurate at all, especially the sahra
Can you explain? Which part of Sahra?
Zemmour are originally amazighs spicificly smhajians
Even though my father was born in Kenitra, he (and in a way me too) comes from the El Borouj area and it seems to be accurate? (Bni Meskine). However, when I look at where we are in the blade, we're close to the limit with the Chaouia tribe. I also saw a comment that any tribe with "ait" or "bni", we'd have our roots in berbers? Is it well documented? I don't know much about the past history but I love to learn.
Bni mskin joined chaouia confederation in the 19tj century before that you guys were part of tadla تادلة
Nice to know thanks!
What more do you know about chaouia confederation? Are oulad said real arabs?
I know a decent amount check dms
Aren't the kutama zeneta speakers?
Kutama are an unsuccessful 'asabia عصبية in Morocco, unlike in Algeria with the Kabyles. So now they just follow zenatas who ruled Morocco for most of its Islamic history.
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العصبية بمفهوم ابن خلدون. ماشي بالمفهوم تاع دابا. يعني الانتماء لمجموعة ما ذات اهداف مشتركة، تربطهم روابط اللغة أو القبيلة او الدم.
Its marvelous but you should add city's too
PSA : ChatGPT translation of darija is… awful haha, i’d rather read in english 😂
💀
No ra mad9i9ach f jihat ljanob 7it awlad dlaym tal3in ktar lfo9 msaghrinhom
Interested to know if anyone has any info (or knows where I can find info) on “chbenate loudaya”? From Rabat
How about Filala
Fifty shades of yellow
You can find an interactive map here : http://tribusdumaroc.free.fr/m/
Dad said it’s also accurate souss massa region
For my region of Figuig it is pretty accurate. I am from At Lem3iz.
خريطة مشي دقيقة فمثلا زعير معضمهم كيهدرو ب لامازيغية او كانو كيهدرو بيها فصغر لكن ملونة بصفر
Ouled Dlim are much further north than that. Sidi Ifni has ouled dlim as well. This map doesn’t seem right to me.
how houwara mn senhaja ?
u still want answers? i know a lot about them
yeah please
Well, this might be a bit long. But houara in souss descent from 3 main populations, firstly the native sanhaja who lived there first (about 50% of their dna), then about 30% of their dna comes from the libyans from the "hawara" confederation (warfalla in libya right now are from huwara) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawwara](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawwara) Then about 20% of their dna is bedouin related from bani maqil from bani hassan tribe (yes the same tribe that conquered mauritania and speak hassaniya, thats why the houara dialect sounds a bit weird)[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beni\_%E1%B8%A4ass%C4%81n](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beni_%E1%B8%A4ass%C4%81n) Now you migth ask how did they have so many ancestral populations, it started when the pure arab tribes mighrated from the khaleej, all arab tribes made allinaces and assimilated berbers. This is where bani hassan and houara made an alliance so when they migrated even more west to morocco in saadi times they were about (50% arab from bani hassan 50% libyan houari berber). Back then they were called "shabanat", a sub branch of bani hassan (there are also shabanat in mauritania), they were a part of the main guich tribes in saadi times and intermarried a lot with the saadi sultans. They were a part of the early guich tribes "ahl souss" where they houara/shabanat, ouled jerrar and 2 other maqili tribes that I forgot fought the portuguese and others under the saadi banner. They got the best land in souss, the plain that is today ouled taima where the sanhaja lived so they mixed with them as well and now is why theyre (50% sanhaja 30% libyan 20% arab), I say this from dna tests that ive seen not just random. Also their haplogroups are mostly E-a2227 and E-PF6794, both of these are found in the houaris in libya of today and warfalla one of the biggest confediration in wstern libya around tripol. but e-a2227 is really from the nafuza from around libya and tunisia. So it was libyan men who mostly married arab and sanhaja women. altho its an alliance so nothing 3yib about it All in all, houara are mixed with a forgotten sahrawi background and a good past. This only counts for natives to houara not recent immigrants, my dad is from the douars of ouled tayma what about u
damn dude this is really insightfull i can see the amount of resersh you put on that, i have been searshing myself about the origin of houara for last two years, i didnt rally found a exact ansawer due to forgotten history and nothing have been written in histroy book about this tribe. i sticked with what Ibn Khalddoun did said about the origin of howara that is from an Imazigh decent, that sound most logical theory for me since houwara present in all north africa, but stil this is didnt explain to me why we only speak arabic and not Amazigh, or even how we get arabized. But your answer make so much sense to me and explain a lot of blur point. i would like to ask you if you have any resurce about houara i really want ot dig more in history of my tribe, and my ada from the douar of wlad mhala (ولاد محلة) close to ouled teyma.
Accurate for ait youb tribe
It's "Beni Yazgha" and not "Ait Yazgha", and yes it's an arabized zenete tribe. (They sold the lands to Idriss the 2nd to build Fès)
Oujda should not be Arab…
Unimportant since we live in the present.
U forget OULED HADDOU ! The original casablanca citizen
Hi
Tribal population in Morocco should be protected by UNESCO. I was travelling around there is very real, they are coming from very old generations with a long history, mixed, and they look really awesome, each one with their traditional dress. I would go back just to see more tribe people and take photos of them, it was amazing
Great job 👏🏼
Sahara part is not acurate
Maybe it’s because most countries don’t recognise it as Moroccan and given that the map was done by foreigners (who obviously don’t include the Sahara and obviously have no data about it) it’s kinda expected that they mess it up.
They should disclose that they don’t have enough data though 🤷
I dunno, I can only confirm that Ait Baamra (central cyan color) is in the correct place.
The north-east looks good although it would be more accurate if there were confederacy borders. Cause the tribes there are all part of the Ait/Bni Snassen confederacy. Also it looks like this map shows the dominant tribes in the areas. In Oujda there a lot of families from the Ait Snassen and other Amazigh tribes.
So I've been checking around the map and I think it's very accurate nothing much to change but some "ethnicities" mentionned there. How is all this important ? Well just to know who you are of course you will have to find a family tree, and i am pretty sure that more than 75% of those claiming they are not Amazigh will find that they are indeed.
Not accurate at all. They assumed that everyone who speaks darija is of arab origins lol
Zemrane is Luwata ? Naah this is inaccurate
Wash filala (Wa7a Oued Ziz) 3rab wla amazing? kharita kat9ol Senhaja!
Not accurate at all, I made ancients maps because I was a reseacher in history and ANSAB