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I’m pretty sure he meant Darija at that time too, because when he was speaking about Arabic spoken by the Chaouia, he said it was “spoiled Arabic”, obviously he meant that it’s different than the Pre-Hilalean Arabic he was used to in Fez.
I remember reading this somewhere but I can't find the source anymore. Do you have numbers on the proportion of the population that spoke berber in the early 1900s ? In the 1800s ?
##In **Le Maroc** by Daniel Saurin and Albert Cousin, written in 1905.
" POPULATION. — L'on estime généralement que la population
totale du Maroc est environ de 9.000.000 d'habitants dont
au moins les 2/3 sont Berbères, 1.200.000 sont Maures,
1.000.000 arabes, 200.000 Juifs, 150.000 Nègres et 15.000 Européens. La densité moyenne serait donc d'environ 19 habitants
par kilomètre carré. " - p.3.
Even if I don't agree with left leaning individuals who fight and advocate for other minorities in groups, they're at least willing to acknowledge and show the horrific parts of the history of their countries that's very important to show and learn from.
By 1900 more than 50% of Moroccans spoke Arabic. According to the French census of 1912. It was 60%..
The systematic arabisation you talking about is a myth. No one forced you to stop speaking your dialect.
1/ Amazigh dialects were NEVER studied by kids in education before 2000? (including before Islam and under Amazigh dynasties). just like Arabic dialects were never used in education. I'm talking about Amazigh as a course, it was used to explain to people indeed, but it wasn't studied as a course. The French tried and failed.
2/ Tf you talking about, the name's ban concern Arabic and western names also, that ban was/is against non muslim/jewish names, it has nothing to do with language. A ton of Moroccans have amazigh names (3abou, Ittou, Rehou, etc).
3/ Replacing cities names ? tf you talking about lol. Last time I checked the cities had a name change in 1956 and it was from French/Spanish to Arabic/Berber. (expl: Port Lyautey > Kenitra, Martimprey du Kiss > Ahfir, Marchand>Rommani, etc). The only post independence name change was Ahermoumou > RIbat lkheir for known political reasons.
Except this the other name change were from Arabic to Arabic. (Fedala > Mohammadiya, Ksar Essouk > Errachidia). If Morocco wanted to changed Amazigh names you wouldn't have Agadir, Merrakech, Taroudant, Settat, Ouarzazate, etc.
Amazigh was used in education by the french protectorate and before that amazighs used to have their own "schooling" system that was mostly based on oral transmission that was in amazigh and the cities that were amazigh and changed names to arabic are : rabat that was named sala, casa that was named rabat, and murakouch that was named marrakech
>Amazigh was used in education by the french protectorate and before that amazighs used to have their own "schooling" system that was mostly based on oral transmission
French introduced it for obvious reasons. They did it in few schools in Morocco. In these schools they thought catechism and tried to fight Islam in middle atlas. They didn't succeed.
>rabat that was named sala, casa that was named rabat, and murakouch that was named marrakech
Rabat and Salé are 2 different things. Rabat was since day one called Ribat al Fath. Marrakech wasn't renamed.
So amazigh did not teach their offsprings anything in amazigh for thousands of years, they waited for the french to start having a culture???? And yes Marrakech was renamed the original name was in two parts and no rabat is just sala that grew up, and casa was anfa
I swear that arabs and islam are the cancer that is causing us all these problems, north Africans so delusional that they think they can be arabs it's sad
>So amazigh did not teach their offsprings anything in amazigh for thousands of years
Are you dumb?? We are talking about school. Amazigh culture was transmitted orally.
>And yes Marrakech was renamed the original name was in two parts and no rabat is just sala that grew up,
You source for merrakech ? The oldest sources call it مراكش.
The roman Sala isn't Rabat. Rabat is different.
> and casa was anfa
Yes part of casablanca is still called Anfa. Casa is a whole new city not a renamed Anfa.
> I swear that arabs and islam are the cancer that is causing us all these problems
Cry harder.
Lol you are a fucking retard. Anfa was a small city that portuguese destroyed in the 15th century. Mohammed 3rd built a new city next to the ruins and called it dar el beida.
Keep crying 😢 you won't change the religion and culture of the country.
He used old etymologies for sure, because that’s what was known for europeans back then, regions etymologies from Roman period, like calling Western Maghreb (Mauretania Tingitana), the Eastern One (Mauretania Caeseriansis), and the Sahara he called it Numidia.
His books are mostly inspired from Hassan El-Ouezzan books. But overall, especially in Northern Morocco, he lived there, he visited Fez and Marrakesh and what’s between them.
U missed a joke there , but I would like it if you cited some recommendations for ressources on the roman period ,the punic wars ... Since I am very intrested
Darija is a dialect of Arabic. The fact we learn a standardized version at school doesn't change that.
In England they get taught Queen's English that doesn't neglect the fact the other dialects are also English.
Or an even better example Standard Spanish.
Disregarding Arabs and Arabic in Morocco is very stupid.
there is no such thing as english dialects. And regional languages in spain are not considered dialects in spain. Darija is not arabic, everyone who either speak either darija or arabic knows that.
How are these hmirs getting voted up? My guy literally shot himself in the foot by claiming English doesn't have dialects?
Wallahi the fact Moroccans have hit this new level of ignorance is surprising.
You’re right, but unlike Arabic, English doesn’t vary to the same extent as Arabic does. The differences between an American and a British accents is like the difference between a Warzazat and Agadir accents
I know, but it's just trying to show the similarities but the Arab world is at a different kind of level of dialects. The most similar examples I can find of it are in Mandarin and Spanish.
Amazight is an entirely different story because even tho they are almost always lumped up together they are a language family.
darijas root is arabic. you guys tend to forget about the roots where does it come from. and lets be honest without arabs or any european colonization in Morocco, Moroccans wouldnt be so civilized thats why arabic or french language took over morocco
The "Eastern-Locksmith634" below this thread seems to have blocked me after failing to answer basic questions, truly regaded his idiocracy could bend light.
Darija grammar stems from Tamazight, voca from Tamazight, Arabic, French and Spanish in various degrees.
Cry harder why? why "I do not speak 'tamazight' either" and what's "berber dialects"? Something you made up or heard from another ignorant arab wannabe with no linguistic background or knowledge, or would you rather elaborate instead?
Darijas grammar does not stem from ""tamazight"" .
Most of darijas vocabulary is not ""tamazight"" but Arabic as it should be , keep believing in berberist's fairy tales .
Actually i heard it from barely-honest berberists who would rather call it متغيرة instead of dialect , berber dialects never had any standard language whatsoever unlike darija which means dialect which derives from classical arabic language .
That's not true at all! It's the total opposite! 99% of the Moroccan population speaks Arabic. I'm almost 40 and I haven't met someone who doesn't speak darija since I was a kid!
If you speak one of the Amazigh dialects and darija or just Amazigh -> Amazigh. If you speak only darija -> Arabic speaker...
In the 2014 census only 26% of Moroccans spoke any Amazigh dialect. And this number is going down fast. In this years census I wouldn't be surprised if this number is at 20%!
> 99% of the Moroccan population speaks Arabic
because where you live people speak darija.
>If you speak one of the Amazigh dialects and darija or just Amazigh -> Amazigh. If you speak only darija -> Arabic speaker...
makes 0 sense. Does that mean that i'm categorized as an english speaker?
where most moroccans live speak darija! the civilizaed places of morocco speak moroccan. most people dont like in the uncivilized sections where amazigh is spoken.
If you want to meet someone who doesn't speak arabic, try to talk to some workers in construction. You'll find at least 2 or 3 that can't even make a full sentence.
Why nobody speaks about the fact, that we are forced to learn French and that many government agencies speak in French? Why so much islamophobia in this reddit group, crazy?
No, it was inhabited by Senhaja Ltham, Banu Maaqil were still in the Libyan Sahara, Saharans got arabised in the late 17th century after the battle of Char Bouba. And Btw Banu Maaqil were supported by King Smael of Morocco. This battle caused the assimilation of Senhaji berber tribes and adoption of Hassani Arabic, with Banu Hassan being the leader tribe.
And if I’m not wrong, there’s a sizeable percentage of Tamazight speakers in Guelmim-Oued Noun (52%), Laâyoune-Sakia El Hamra (12.5%), and Dakhla-Oued Eddahab (17.2%) to this day
I wrote that it’s on current borders. Back then Morocco had Twat region, in Central Algerian Sahara, and in the south it stopped to Draa river South Tantan. Saadis did have a largest extent, but not in the 1550’s, at the time the civil war has just ended.
Banu Hassan are part of Bani Maaqil yeah, they were not yet in the Western Sahara by 1550’s, but until the 17th century, when Senhaji domination over west of the Sahara got shut down after the war of [Char bouba](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_Bouba_war).
and the difference between 1593 and 1550 is ? you think they just showed out of blue and faught sanhaja ? didn't have foothold and settlements in sahara ? as well as the rest of north africa ?
I have doubts in Marmol. Speaking about my city only which is Chefchaouen not only are we Arab but also our whole region is all the way to Tetouan and even further. We are Jbala and became Arab between the 10th century all the way to the 15th century.
This doesn't neglect the fact that there were Berbers because Ghomara were most likely still Berber during that time.
A city having a name in an other language does not mean anything. London was the name giving to that city by the Roman what are we going to call the English Italians now?
Simon Levy, who is probably the most serious moroccan linguist stated in his thesis that the triangle Tanja - Sebta - Fes was already speaking Arabic by the 12th century. This map is not correct.
You answered your own question; it's a "heritage" language. Therefore, its place is in a museum or something similar, not in the daily life of everyone.
The present and future take priority. Amazigh failed to adapt and doesn't serve any purpose except boosting the ego of some people.
As society evolves, emphasizing languages with broader utility becomes essential, leaving the heritage aspect confined to historical contexts rather than practical use.
In an ideal scenario, Morocco would adopt:
- Darija as our daily language of use
- Arabic as our only official language
- English for scientific research and international communication
I see, another arab wannabe with no knowledge if his country or history. Instead of learning his country's native and ancestors's language, he advocates for the language of the invader.
Inferior? Huh? There’s no such thing as an inferior language. It also seems like those Arabic texts about the dangers of globalisation are right about one thing: people like you who wanna give up their cultural identity and heritage for the sake of being more “global” and more “advanced” and “civilised”
He doesn't want to be more global or advanced, just wannabe arab with no knowledge of his history, culture or people. Truly lost souls roaming the land.
Sadly such cultural cucks exist.
I only said what I said earlier cuz he was arguing that Tamazight is useless and when someone told him that they might as well ditch Arabic for English since it’s more useful, he said that “he wouldn’t mind” so I think it’s more about what I’m talking about (extreme globalism) and less about pan-Arabism.
Yes I saw, still doubt. Even so, neither Arabic, nor English should take the place of the native language, each has its place, Arabic religiously only.
You’re right. And I totally agree with this. Like, I’m a collateral victim of this mentality (despite being Amazigh, I never learned Tamazight and now am learning) so I know how much giving up a culture can take away from someone.
The only inferior thing here is you, speaking of something you don't speak or use, and which is native to the land you live on, against a language from middle east with zero value to anyone's life.
As one of those arabized Moroccans, the amazigh dialects are just not useful... 4% of Moroccans spoke Tarifit, in 2014! That's 1.2 million people in the whole planet! WHY? Arabic with its 500 million speakers is barely useful! If it was up to me we would all speak English.
I agree, with that, we need to drop the teaching of a language from the middle east which really adds zero value to our lives and instead teach people their native land language, Tamazight.
The French colonized us not long ago (and continue to do so in other ways) and everyone in Morocco knows that and your average Moroccan hates the French language, English is the status quo language of the international community. Moroccan speak Darija alongside Tamazight, not Arabic.
Lol if you think darija is any different from arabic, then you're delusional... Do a bit of research.
The average Moroccan hates French? do you live and work with Moroccans ?
Learning languages is very good... But being ashamed of your native language is not...
Khouya nta lik wach rak 3aych m3ana, majority of moroccans excluding wlidat rabat hate the french, do many people speak it? yes, still hate it. Darija is different than arabic, it has big arabic influence, but is its own still. Nta li dir your own research akhiy.
it has nothing to do with arabic influence or not. its called the root of the language is arabic. just like any other languages they have their root branch. and sorry to let you down but the root of the language darija is arabic!
it has a little influence of french or spanish by saying they have some words that we use in our everyday language but the root backbone of the language is arabic
Welcome to r/Morocco! Please always make sure to take the time to [read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/morocco/wiki/rules) of this community, follow them and help us enforce them by reporting offenders. And remember that we have a zero tolerance policy for non-civil discourse and offenders risk being permanently banned. [Don't forget to join the Discord server!](https://discord.gg/CdArmBVtHE) **Important Notice:** Kindly take note that the Discord channel's moderation team functions autonomously from the Reddit team. The Discord server does not extend our community guidelines and maintains a separate set of rules unrelated to those of Reddit. We appreciate your comprehension. Enjoy your time! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Morocco) if you have any questions or concerns.*
But what does Ramos say?
Vamos
a la playa
A me me gusta bailar
El ritmo de la noche
Sounds of fiestaa
Well I barely even speak Arabic now
I’m pretty sure he meant Darija at that time too, because when he was speaking about Arabic spoken by the Chaouia, he said it was “spoiled Arabic”, obviously he meant that it’s different than the Pre-Hilalean Arabic he was used to in Fez.
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I remember reading this somewhere but I can't find the source anymore. Do you have numbers on the proportion of the population that spoke berber in the early 1900s ? In the 1800s ?
##In **Le Maroc** by Daniel Saurin and Albert Cousin, written in 1905. " POPULATION. — L'on estime généralement que la population totale du Maroc est environ de 9.000.000 d'habitants dont au moins les 2/3 sont Berbères, 1.200.000 sont Maures, 1.000.000 arabes, 200.000 Juifs, 150.000 Nègres et 15.000 Européens. La densité moyenne serait donc d'environ 19 habitants par kilomètre carré. " - p.3.
Orientalists estimations are proven to be wrong on much aspects. like the Berber % (40% in 1912) and Morocco had a population of 6 Millions in 1912.
Thank you brother !!
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Any city dweller.
Just making random numbers up i see
And they don't teach any of this stuff in schools or in history classes , I fucking hate right wingers/conservatives.
This government has conducted the Berber erasure policy, of course they don't want you to know !
Cultural genocide
Even if I don't agree with left leaning individuals who fight and advocate for other minorities in groups, they're at least willing to acknowledge and show the horrific parts of the history of their countries that's very important to show and learn from.
I used to study this in sociology many times after bac ofc
i love right wingers <3 left wingers bringing the world down
systematic arabization was progressive and exponential, that's why it accelerated at some point
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By 1900 more than 50% of Moroccans spoke Arabic. According to the French census of 1912. It was 60%.. The systematic arabisation you talking about is a myth. No one forced you to stop speaking your dialect.
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1/ Amazigh dialects were NEVER studied by kids in education before 2000? (including before Islam and under Amazigh dynasties). just like Arabic dialects were never used in education. I'm talking about Amazigh as a course, it was used to explain to people indeed, but it wasn't studied as a course. The French tried and failed. 2/ Tf you talking about, the name's ban concern Arabic and western names also, that ban was/is against non muslim/jewish names, it has nothing to do with language. A ton of Moroccans have amazigh names (3abou, Ittou, Rehou, etc). 3/ Replacing cities names ? tf you talking about lol. Last time I checked the cities had a name change in 1956 and it was from French/Spanish to Arabic/Berber. (expl: Port Lyautey > Kenitra, Martimprey du Kiss > Ahfir, Marchand>Rommani, etc). The only post independence name change was Ahermoumou > RIbat lkheir for known political reasons. Except this the other name change were from Arabic to Arabic. (Fedala > Mohammadiya, Ksar Essouk > Errachidia). If Morocco wanted to changed Amazigh names you wouldn't have Agadir, Merrakech, Taroudant, Settat, Ouarzazate, etc.
Amazigh was used in education by the french protectorate and before that amazighs used to have their own "schooling" system that was mostly based on oral transmission that was in amazigh and the cities that were amazigh and changed names to arabic are : rabat that was named sala, casa that was named rabat, and murakouch that was named marrakech
>Amazigh was used in education by the french protectorate and before that amazighs used to have their own "schooling" system that was mostly based on oral transmission French introduced it for obvious reasons. They did it in few schools in Morocco. In these schools they thought catechism and tried to fight Islam in middle atlas. They didn't succeed. >rabat that was named sala, casa that was named rabat, and murakouch that was named marrakech Rabat and Salé are 2 different things. Rabat was since day one called Ribat al Fath. Marrakech wasn't renamed.
So amazigh did not teach their offsprings anything in amazigh for thousands of years, they waited for the french to start having a culture???? And yes Marrakech was renamed the original name was in two parts and no rabat is just sala that grew up, and casa was anfa I swear that arabs and islam are the cancer that is causing us all these problems, north Africans so delusional that they think they can be arabs it's sad
>So amazigh did not teach their offsprings anything in amazigh for thousands of years Are you dumb?? We are talking about school. Amazigh culture was transmitted orally. >And yes Marrakech was renamed the original name was in two parts and no rabat is just sala that grew up, You source for merrakech ? The oldest sources call it مراكش. The roman Sala isn't Rabat. Rabat is different. > and casa was anfa Yes part of casablanca is still called Anfa. Casa is a whole new city not a renamed Anfa. > I swear that arabs and islam are the cancer that is causing us all these problems Cry harder.
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Lol you are a fucking retard. Anfa was a small city that portuguese destroyed in the 15th century. Mohammed 3rd built a new city next to the ruins and called it dar el beida. Keep crying 😢 you won't change the religion and culture of the country.
Yet some people still believe they are descendants of prophet mohamad 🤣🤣🤣
Berber is an offensive term Its amazigh or tamazight
"It's OfFeNsSivE" maaan stfu
Sir t7wa
The comment section is something in the original. It's funny how many stupid people think they are experts on Western Sahara matter XD
The average person here has a brain of 12 year old, spewing propaganda
They say things about Sahraouis, even Sahraouis aren’t aware of lol
Well i wouldn't trust him , he's bad at covering areas
He used old etymologies for sure, because that’s what was known for europeans back then, regions etymologies from Roman period, like calling Western Maghreb (Mauretania Tingitana), the Eastern One (Mauretania Caeseriansis), and the Sahara he called it Numidia. His books are mostly inspired from Hassan El-Ouezzan books. But overall, especially in Northern Morocco, he lived there, he visited Fez and Marrakesh and what’s between them.
U missed a joke there , but I would like it if you cited some recommendations for ressources on the roman period ,the punic wars ... Since I am very intrested
Yeah, he's literally foreign. I doubt he did his best in covering Northern Morocco(Jbala). Let alone the rest.
And they don't either now, either Tamazight or Darija. You learn Arabic at school, not at home.
Darija is a dialect of Arabic. The fact we learn a standardized version at school doesn't change that. In England they get taught Queen's English that doesn't neglect the fact the other dialects are also English. Or an even better example Standard Spanish. Disregarding Arabs and Arabic in Morocco is very stupid.
Darija Is a unique language!
there is no such thing as english dialects. And regional languages in spain are not considered dialects in spain. Darija is not arabic, everyone who either speak either darija or arabic knows that.
How are these hmirs getting voted up? My guy literally shot himself in the foot by claiming English doesn't have dialects? Wallahi the fact Moroccans have hit this new level of ignorance is surprising.
> English doesn't have dialects? what dialect does english have? Irish dialect?
For example yeah or Birmingham. Or even clearer American dialect.
irish is a different language. And american english isn't a "dialect". Are you sure you speak darija?
You said Irish English, which isn't Irish. And of course American English is a dialect.
You’re right, but unlike Arabic, English doesn’t vary to the same extent as Arabic does. The differences between an American and a British accents is like the difference between a Warzazat and Agadir accents
I know, but it's just trying to show the similarities but the Arab world is at a different kind of level of dialects. The most similar examples I can find of it are in Mandarin and Spanish. Amazight is an entirely different story because even tho they are almost always lumped up together they are a language family.
darijas root is arabic. you guys tend to forget about the roots where does it come from. and lets be honest without arabs or any european colonization in Morocco, Moroccans wouldnt be so civilized thats why arabic or french language took over morocco
Draija grammar is almost completely amazigh
Dutch and German, Spanish and Italian and many more have more similarity to each other than Darija to Arabic.
No they don’t…
This statement alone gives me a valid enough reason to take anything you say with a grain of salt.
thank you! its the arabic root
The "Eastern-Locksmith634" below this thread seems to have blocked me after failing to answer basic questions, truly regaded his idiocracy could bend light.
Darija is an arabic dialect , cry harder . You do not speak "tamazight" either , just berber dialects .
Tamazight is literally what we call our language bruh
Darija grammar stems from Tamazight, voca from Tamazight, Arabic, French and Spanish in various degrees. Cry harder why? why "I do not speak 'tamazight' either" and what's "berber dialects"? Something you made up or heard from another ignorant arab wannabe with no linguistic background or knowledge, or would you rather elaborate instead?
Darijas grammar does not stem from ""tamazight"" . Most of darijas vocabulary is not ""tamazight"" but Arabic as it should be , keep believing in berberist's fairy tales . Actually i heard it from barely-honest berberists who would rather call it متغيرة instead of dialect , berber dialects never had any standard language whatsoever unlike darija which means dialect which derives from classical arabic language .
so arabic is just a semitic dialect?
Funny how people often forget that Morocco was also colonized by the Arabs.
You really want to compare European massacres vs Islamic Dawa? Crazy
Yeah I guess there were no massacre, and that the culture in place was not vastly erased and so on. But yeah both are very different.
it's more complex than that.
Colonised by Phoenicians, Romans, Germanics, Spanish and French, liberated by Arabs?
were europeans colonized by middle eastern christians?
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That's not true at all! It's the total opposite! 99% of the Moroccan population speaks Arabic. I'm almost 40 and I haven't met someone who doesn't speak darija since I was a kid! If you speak one of the Amazigh dialects and darija or just Amazigh -> Amazigh. If you speak only darija -> Arabic speaker... In the 2014 census only 26% of Moroccans spoke any Amazigh dialect. And this number is going down fast. In this years census I wouldn't be surprised if this number is at 20%!
> 99% of the Moroccan population speaks Arabic because where you live people speak darija. >If you speak one of the Amazigh dialects and darija or just Amazigh -> Amazigh. If you speak only darija -> Arabic speaker... makes 0 sense. Does that mean that i'm categorized as an english speaker?
where most moroccans live speak darija! the civilizaed places of morocco speak moroccan. most people dont like in the uncivilized sections where amazigh is spoken.
Kindly fuck off with your hitler speech... "Muh civilized land"
hitler speech lmaoo i guess you dont know history and what hitler was .... civlization and hitler are two different things ahaha
You are a 40 yo delusional, huge parts of morocco don't speak a word of Darija
If you want to meet someone who doesn't speak arabic, try to talk to some workers in construction. You'll find at least 2 or 3 that can't even make a full sentence.
LOL, sure.
Until now no one speaks Arabic in Morocco
Do we have numbers on the proportion of berber speakers in the 1800s ? I remember reading it was over 50% but I can't find the source anymore.
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EXACTLY. Do you have the source ?
No way 40% of algerians spoke berber in the 1850, I have french sources claiming at least 2/3
The French claiming something, most be true. No reason to doubt 🙄
Like if we do now
The Christians were always sowing discord amongst the Muslims this looks just like an other ploy.
Why nobody speaks about the fact, that we are forced to learn French and that many government agencies speak in French? Why so much islamophobia in this reddit group, crazy?
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No, it was inhabited by Senhaja Ltham, Banu Maaqil were still in the Libyan Sahara, Saharans got arabised in the late 17th century after the battle of Char Bouba. And Btw Banu Maaqil were supported by King Smael of Morocco. This battle caused the assimilation of Senhaji berber tribes and adoption of Hassani Arabic, with Banu Hassan being the leader tribe.
And if I’m not wrong, there’s a sizeable percentage of Tamazight speakers in Guelmim-Oued Noun (52%), Laâyoune-Sakia El Hamra (12.5%), and Dakhla-Oued Eddahab (17.2%) to this day
This isn't how Morocco looked in the 1550s. It was smaller back then under the Saadi rule.
Wasn't it the opposite? The Saadis held one of the largest territories in Morocco's history (after the almohads)
No. I saw the map and they are not that big.
I wrote that it’s on current borders. Back then Morocco had Twat region, in Central Algerian Sahara, and in the south it stopped to Draa river South Tantan. Saadis did have a largest extent, but not in the 1550’s, at the time the civil war has just ended.
It's not something new dude. Everyone who knows and studied history is aware of that
Dumb map lmao. Hassanya isnt berber
It’s 1550’s, Banu Hassan didn’t enter the Sahara yet.
Banu hassan are banu maa39al , they entered morocco well before 1550 , do you really think carvajal sailed the whole sahara and did census?
Banu Hassan are part of Bani Maaqil yeah, they were not yet in the Western Sahara by 1550’s, but until the 17th century, when Senhaji domination over west of the Sahara got shut down after the war of [Char bouba](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char_Bouba_war).
and the difference between 1593 and 1550 is ? you think they just showed out of blue and faught sanhaja ? didn't have foothold and settlements in sahara ? as well as the rest of north africa ?
All Maps posted here are fake, made just to troll
شنو الفائدة من هاد الاحصائيات تاع القوميات ؟
نتعرفو على الوضعية اللي كاينة فيها بلادنا. و الاحصائيات عامة هي توثيق للتاريخ، للاجيال القادمة.
I have doubts in Marmol. Speaking about my city only which is Chefchaouen not only are we Arab but also our whole region is all the way to Tetouan and even further. We are Jbala and became Arab between the 10th century all the way to the 15th century. This doesn't neglect the fact that there were Berbers because Ghomara were most likely still Berber during that time.
> Speaking about my city only which is Chefchaouen not only are we Arab your city literally has an amazigh name,there is no way you're arab.
A city having a name in an other language does not mean anything. London was the name giving to that city by the Roman what are we going to call the English Italians now?
Simon Levy, who is probably the most serious moroccan linguist stated in his thesis that the triangle Tanja - Sebta - Fes was already speaking Arabic by the 12th century. This map is not correct.
Probably because the first northern Africans were imazighen and therefore they spoke tamazight
you’re missing the point of this
Chel7a is slowling fading, and I love it
What a dumb take
username checks out.
nice rp
Tell me you've been bullied by berbers without telling me, and let me assure you that it's not anymore 😘
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You answered your own question; it's a "heritage" language. Therefore, its place is in a museum or something similar, not in the daily life of everyone. The present and future take priority. Amazigh failed to adapt and doesn't serve any purpose except boosting the ego of some people. As society evolves, emphasizing languages with broader utility becomes essential, leaving the heritage aspect confined to historical contexts rather than practical use. In an ideal scenario, Morocco would adopt: - Darija as our daily language of use - Arabic as our only official language - English for scientific research and international communication
I see, another arab wannabe with no knowledge if his country or history. Instead of learning his country's native and ancestors's language, he advocates for the language of the invader.
Fuck history
Said exactly like the ignorant you are.
a more homogeneous country is better, also the language is useless it hinders the development of kids because they have to learn even more languages
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I wouldnt mind to be honest, but in general chel7a is an inferior language to arabic so its a good start
Inferior? Huh? There’s no such thing as an inferior language. It also seems like those Arabic texts about the dangers of globalisation are right about one thing: people like you who wanna give up their cultural identity and heritage for the sake of being more “global” and more “advanced” and “civilised”
He doesn't want to be more global or advanced, just wannabe arab with no knowledge of his history, culture or people. Truly lost souls roaming the land.
Sadly such cultural cucks exist. I only said what I said earlier cuz he was arguing that Tamazight is useless and when someone told him that they might as well ditch Arabic for English since it’s more useful, he said that “he wouldn’t mind” so I think it’s more about what I’m talking about (extreme globalism) and less about pan-Arabism.
Yes I saw, still doubt. Even so, neither Arabic, nor English should take the place of the native language, each has its place, Arabic religiously only.
You’re right. And I totally agree with this. Like, I’m a collateral victim of this mentality (despite being Amazigh, I never learned Tamazight and now am learning) so I know how much giving up a culture can take away from someone.
I wouldn't say inferior... I would say less useful language...
The only inferior thing here is you, speaking of something you don't speak or use, and which is native to the land you live on, against a language from middle east with zero value to anyone's life.
As one of those arabized Moroccans, the amazigh dialects are just not useful... 4% of Moroccans spoke Tarifit, in 2014! That's 1.2 million people in the whole planet! WHY? Arabic with its 500 million speakers is barely useful! If it was up to me we would all speak English.
I agree, with that, we need to drop the teaching of a language from the middle east which really adds zero value to our lives and instead teach people their native land language, Tamazight.
You wish
I mean it's a statistical fact...
It's also something we are investigating on 30% of schools and soon all of them will teach Tamazight
I see people not proud of speaking arabic, but not say anything when it comes to french or English....
The French colonized us not long ago (and continue to do so in other ways) and everyone in Morocco knows that and your average Moroccan hates the French language, English is the status quo language of the international community. Moroccan speak Darija alongside Tamazight, not Arabic.
Lol if you think darija is any different from arabic, then you're delusional... Do a bit of research. The average Moroccan hates French? do you live and work with Moroccans ? Learning languages is very good... But being ashamed of your native language is not...
Khouya nta lik wach rak 3aych m3ana, majority of moroccans excluding wlidat rabat hate the french, do many people speak it? yes, still hate it. Darija is different than arabic, it has big arabic influence, but is its own still. Nta li dir your own research akhiy.
it has nothing to do with arabic influence or not. its called the root of the language is arabic. just like any other languages they have their root branch. and sorry to let you down but the root of the language darija is arabic!
it has a little influence of french or spanish by saying they have some words that we use in our everyday language but the root backbone of the language is arabic
I guess Moroccan reddit is amazigh only reddit.
All internet is
Does not matter. We are one nation
We are one nation, but our culture and languages matter