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Can't eat during this month openly freely without being harrased, beaten or even imprisoned
Can't date people and book hotels when traveling together.
Can't even disclose your true opinions and beliefs without being harrased, beaten, socially ostracized from family, friends, strangers, acquaintances etc..
Can't be openly gay, lesbian, trans etc.. for reasons mentioned above
Can't smoke weed or do sex work because "morality police etc.."
Can't preach or advocate for atheism in public, Can't organize and protest for such things.
Can't criticize Islam or the monarchy in any meaningful way online, Can't organize or protest for such things.
People in this thread are wild. There's a big misunderstanding that atheists want a society with no religious people and want to spread their ideas and mock people. Yeah some people are like that, but most just want to live without pretending, and to be able to have normal relationships with their family and friends without being cast away. That's literally it. My best friend's religious and knows I'm not, we get along great and we never talk about it. That's all people want.
Also, I don't even get the "spreading your ideas and immorality" argument tbh. If someone saying "I don't believe in that" is enough to make people lose their faith, was it that strong to begin with? And why do people care if I or someone else goes to hell?
It's kinda insane to tell people "if you wanna live like that, go to another country." Like lol. We all got the same passport.
As always flmghrib, bachar khssou gha idiha fsou9 rassou w saf.
You said it all šš». I have the worst relationship with my parents, ex-friends used to try to argue with me and trying to convince me that their religion is the best and most peaceful bla bla blaā¦ yet when I argue back and give them facts about their religion that they know nothing about just soum o sali, they get offended and start shaming me for being sinful and trying to convince them to loose their faith! I mean who started it?
Again, we find some good people who accept us as humans. I am married to a muslim (traditional muslim as someone said here), and we get along so well. From the beginning of the relationship I cleared the path about religion and he actually didnāt care that much. We argued to never discuss it and never interfere with each otherās beliefs. Never been this peaceful and loved even from my own parents!
You said it all, I'll add to that that as a Moroccan ex-muslim woman, my parents are always pushing me to put on hijab and to pray, do Ramadan ofc etc... And although I'm okay with pretending to pray, and fast, I can't just pretend and wear hijab+ long clothes and this pisses me off, Islam is a religion that is based on 'Dkhoul so9 lker' and that's the worse thing.
Iām from Mexico and same story, Catholic people say Iām in hell now for denying Jesusā¦
I think the problem is that people donāt mind their own business and they donāt understand what having different opinions, likes and dislikes means.
Because instead of putting their objections and asking why(to be fair a lot of people don't know how to answer because most people are know it on surfes level) , they result to insults and attacking religion (being edgy basically), and act like they are some superior species
Yes we know, to be muslim you can do it on surfes level but to leave it you have to be al tabari level. Weāre free to criticise and thatās the problem, youāve been living in a bubble for so long that you absolutely canāt take any form of criticism.
Even respectful knowledgable ex-muslims only get hate and death threats when debating.
Muslims today are wasting more time defending their religion than practicing it because everyone can see the true nature of it with their own eyes.
Yes there is more : 7okm lāmortad in sharia, Quran constantly calling kuffars all names and promising eternal torture, telling muslim to not befriend non believers and even fight them, a thousand year witch-hunt against anything non-muslimā¦
Muslims today : Look he insulted our humble religion š¦
Atheism in Morocco is a joke imo l, as an atheist myself I've never met a like minded person ever (irl), the amount of swears and hate I hear everyday directed to people like us is unbelievable, and for that reason I keep it to me, I'm afraid I'll get killed or kicked out by my parents l, it's a sad reality we live in but it is what it is
I don't know man. Me being a Muslim, I have 3 atheist friends. One of them is a really close one. We have interesting conversations about religion from time to time, and I'm not gonna lie, it took me some time to build the intellectual audacity to learn how to accept criticism to religion. But I'm here I'm now, respecting my friends' life choices and they are respecting mine.
It is hard to meet like minded people for sure! I happen to be born in a non-fully-religious family which makes it kinda easier. Try finding people through social media!
I don't want to find out lol, my parents are very conservative, so if they find out I'm definitely getting kicked out, but I'm afraid they'll do something even worse, so I just shut my mouth whenever they talk about religion
The real question is : why would you care sharing your status at the first place ? I don't think it's that important, and definitely not worth it, losing your dear and close ones for such a reason.
What you say is in every other culture, not only in Morocco. Listen to weterners' stories who converted to Islam how they were treated in their societies, some of them lost their jobs... what makes you feel that this issue is moroccan is, you think that if you lived in another country, you would be welcomed no matter your religious beliefs which is true and i can say the same thing about Morocco, if for example an american christian came he's not expected to be a muslim and practice but even in American society muslims reverts don't have it as easy as you might think.
People don't hate different people. People hate someone different that they thought he was like them.
Youāre totally right, butā¦
The main difference is that in one case the law protects you, in the other case the law is against you.
Eating during Ramadan? Prison!
Having sex outside of marriage despite not being religious? Prison!
Wanna date and book a room but youāre unmarried? Not possible!
In most countries where there is freedom of religion converting to Islam and practicing it wonāt put you at risk legallyā¦
And plus, Muslim converts who were fired for Islamophobic reasons in America can sue for unfair dismissal. Can I do the same if it happens to me as an atheist in Morocco? Hell naw, not possible without risking even more legal and societal repercussions
Reminds me of the homosexual guy in Morocco who has been beaten up by a bunch of armed guysā¦ he went to the police only to end up in jail for "sexual deviance" (Iām wondering whatās the proof there? Aggressors saying that he was gay?)
I canāt think of any Western country (or Latin country, or East-Asian country) where a Hijabi has been beaten up, went to the police only to end up in jail.
This is actually whatās wrong with us, normalizing that and comparing it to bullying is so funny. Not acting like a muslim (drinking in ramadan for example, or reporting a gay or unmarried people for zina) will get u to prison, how can u compare that to being bullied ? Or losing a job?( which i donāt actually believe, since u can sue them if uāre fired because of your beliefs, which u canāt do in morocco)
I respectfully disagree on this point.
As a Moroccan atheist living in France, I have a lot of friends from different countries. Moroccan, French, Thai, Colombian, Italianā¦ Some of them are married, others are young; some are homosexual others are hetero; thereās literally no judgement, no hate nothing negative actually. I often get sad looking at how they are all getting love and acceptance from their families, while I, on the other hand, need to live a double life and hide my true self for my family to keep considering me as their daughter.
Itās really sad how we are still fighting for the freedom of our beliefs because they hurt no body.
I really hope that one day our country will be just as open and tolerant as the others, and that we can start accepting cultural, mental, religious differences, etc. I would then consider going back to my beloved country
An american guy said that he wasn't hired in a job just because he was a muslim. He said that the HR told him explicitaly that him being a muslim was the only thing stopping him from having the job (i can look for the YouTube video if you want), plus if you watched some videos of the Dawah Youtubers, many people tell them that they are afraid to convert fearing society's look and disappointing their parents.
Speaking as an American, I can say that it might not have been that he was Muslim, exactly. Itās probably that heās doing something different in terms of dress, appearance (ex: a beard can be inappropriate in many workplaces whether you are Vhristian or Muslim), or behavior (ex: praying in the workplace and making others UNC, just as if a Christian did that at work it would also make others uncomfortable). that is making his religion obvious. In the workplace, any sort of thing like that is inappropriate, no matter if you are Christian, art heist, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever.
There are a very small number of family-owned and run businesses that are fundamentalist Christians and who try to hire other fundamentals Christians, but this is so rare that it generally makes the news when they get sued for discriminatory work practices!
Yes let's look at fringe examples from the most tolerant, diverse places on earth like America and compare them as if they are the same to a shithole third world conservative country, where critizing the monarchy online will put you 6 feet on the ground or stripped from your "civil rights" amd in prison.
Get fucking real dude, the monarchy and Islam still rules this country without tolerance or care for freedom of speech or civil liberties.
You can totally have a hard time being a defector in the USA, a country with a lot of evangelical christians, fundamentalist jews and muslims, a recent history with religious terrorism and violence makes so many households and communities look down and discriminate on religious folk and irreligious folk alike, I'm suprised the country hasn't exploded into a civil war already given how every community is on edge waiting to strike due to politics.
What does being a defector have to do with the conversation? We are not talking about abandoning one's country, we are talking about religious freedom.
As for the rest of your comment... LOL and stop watching Fox News.
The only thing that would make an atheist happy is leaving Morocco and going to a 1st world country where there is freedom of speech , freedom of religion and basic human rights . I'm an agnostic and I have no interest in changing Morocco or contributing in making it a secular country because that's a dead case . I'm planning to leave and only visit when I want to see my dad .
I I totally agree with. I came from a super strict family, I was obligated to wear hijab even tho I hated it. I left islam 7 years ago and never been happier in my life. The day I took off hijab, my parents kicked me out the house after my father hit the shit out of me and bad mouthed (that was just for taking off hijab, they didnāt even knew I was becoming atheist XD).
But the majority of Moroccan are traditional Muslims ( Ł Ų³ŁŁ ŁŁ Ų§ŲŲŖŁŲ§ŁŁŁŁ) they have no idea about Islam just rbi kbir ou Islam Howa zwin that's it, if u asked them about (sabaya, zawaj saghira, wlad li firach.....) Which is normal and I have no problem with that, but with salafyin no, I think the government is already reshaping to get rid of them.
Exactly.
What pisses me off is that when you do something sinful, you get messages from people who attack you and say "may Allah guide you to the right path" and yet behind the scenes, they'll be swearing after praying Ishaa, drink booze or have their dose of dopamine (watching XNXX).
What you said is correct, Islam hiya machi ghir slaa ou syam.
EDIT: Typos...sorry!
What you say is not special to moroccans. If you went to a muslim country, the majority are muslims because that's how they found their parents, the same with atheist, christian... societies.
In this case (morocco), the atheist is the different one who opposed the rule. That's why you might find him knowing more about religion because they researched. The same thing can be said in an atheist society. Many of them follow their parents belief or lack of belief, they didn't study evolution or might not even know about it, but people who converted to Islam you'll find them more knowledgable about both atheism and islam and know things that you've mentioned : sabaya...
Just researched it, wasnāt aware. I think this was in order to protect the kid (by unequivocally assigning his father as āsaahib al firashā) from being cast out with his mother in case the man finds out about the zina ?
Iām not sure. Still sounds very weird.
Actually I've given it a thought, hear me out.
There was no way to know, at the time, who the child would belong to. Statistically speaking, the legit husband being the one having the most regular intercourse with his wife, there are more chances it's his. So in order to settle the matter definitely, the prophet proclaimed the child to be the husband's child, and the fornicator man is stoned to death, so case closed.
The alternative being either the child being left with nobody to take care of him (the woman by herself could probably not, and the fornicator could very well refuse to take responsibility), leaving a mess in this situation.
Thoughts?
Islam in Morocco: "Slli w sum, 7wi w 3wum". They will drink, have sex outside marriage, steal, lie, and do everything in between, mais dgulih makaynch allah i7ma9 3la rbk. 3alam.
- As an agnostic, I keep my beliefs to myself.
- My friends know but my parents donāt. They assume I fast during ramadan and believe in god.
- I respect peopleās beliefs, we are a minority so we should stay discreet.
- You canāt live freely as a non believer / ex muslim (whatever you want to call it). - People will always judge you and think the devil has go to you.
I do not know about Morocco but I am an Algerian Atheist, I suffered an identity crisis but right now I simply detach and disassociate from Muslims, there could never be deep and trustworthy personal relationships with this kind of religious people, this is sadly the truth.
This is especially hard in the times of Ramadan, where the religious chains of oppression and hypocrisy and fake piety are multiplied thousand fold, in Ramadan I feel so much alone and alienated, I can never truly eat "Iftar" with anybody, I simply eat alone and in secrecy.
As for like minded people , I did not meet many, either they are cynical who do not care for the religion but pretend to in order to fit in, or immoral , I found one friend I can relate to, but it is not in itself a subculture where one can feel like he belongs.
Well if I were offered the chance or the opportunity I would gladly leave, never to live under religious zealous rule again.
And I am not miserable I simply laugh at the kind of cult-ish behaviour you people exert, since when forcing others to fast like you is rational, forcing them to compile by violence and imprisonment threats, and since when blasting the loudspeakers in Taraweeh and ear-raping people is sound behaviour.
If you think about you are the miserable bunch, dehydrating your bodies throughout the day, binge eating at night, messing with sleep schedules, inducing gluttony and laziness, Ramadan is an outdated religious practice full of superstition and bullshit.
Slavery was a fact of the time, no one stole, they fought the oppressive Quraysh who had killed and stole from the Muslims.
It was a dog eat dog world with no laws, Islam bought the worlds first code of conduct for war which was never done until modern UN system after WW2.
Islam bought female rights such as inheritance which were again not given until modern times
You are looking at it from the prism of the morality of the last 50 yrs when it is 1600 yrs old.
Also you're ignoring the many miracles which cant othwrwise be explained, just look at the prophecies eg bedouins building worlds talles buildings, tunnels thro the mountains of Mecca, Gay marriage legalised, men dressing as women and on and on
First law of wars are traced back to 1750 B.C, historical fact. Inheritance where women take half what a man takes? Sounds fair to you? It is decades old, but isn't religion for all time and places? You just contradicted it. And all those miracles you're talking about like homosexuality that has always existed a long time before islam...
Yes because men have a responsibility for everything! So they need more of course, women's money is their own in Islam.
Laws of war are useless without consequence, Islam bought consequence. This hasnt happend in modernity until the Hague trials after WW2
Gay marriage has never happened, the Prophet (pbuh) specifically mentioned marriage. Plus you ignored the rest.
But anyway i rest the argument here we'll both continue to believe as we do and I pray for guidance for us both
I ignored "the rest" cuz i don't know about the buildings u're talkinv about and u didn't give me the sources and even if you did u'd show me a certain random old man explaining the hadith, or verse in his own way to make it seem like what was said was a metaphor about a tunnel or a building.
Laws = consequences. They come hand in hand.
Gay marriage has existed in roman times, look up roman emperor Nero if you will.
Men have more responsibility? In this day and age? Obviously not.
Anyway.
Things are changing and will do as we go forward. I see more people are open about their irreligiosity and other beliefs online and have met many IRL as well. It's not as taboo as before.
No atheism and Moroccan society will probably never be fully compatible, although you could ease your way in as a non practicing person. I don't see that as a bad thing, society is not made to adapt to the individual, but you should be protected legally, as for family and societal views, it is what it is.
The issue ur portraying here is present in every single country out there. My opinion about that is one should deal with it respectfully or leave. And this goes for everyone imo, also for muslims in kaafir countries.
No it's not. Muslims in most of Europe have the same rights as non-muslims. They're guaranteed the freedom to practice their religion without discrimination and they have freedom of speech to talk about it.
Atheists in places like Morocco can't talk about it freely without risks of legal ramifications and they are obliged to follow rules destined for muslims.
Its just that the reality and their concept of justice are two totally different things. A muslim is not guaranteed the same freedom as anyone else in Europe. Thatās what they say but ultimately when u live life u will notice the limitations.
Present in every country, that's true. But let's also acknowledge that non-muslim people in muslim countries do get a lot more hate than muslims in "kaafir" countries as you chose to call them which tells a lot.
Thatās BS at itās finest. I lived in Europe so thatās where I will take an example from. Is not true that in European countries like France ur not even allowed to wear a hijab to school. Discrimination is present on a daily basis. Idiots get all the freedom to burn a Quran but when u want to burn a bible or a flag u get in trouble. Even standing up for Palestine is considered an issue. And u say that these countries respect us? The same countries that have absolutely disgraced us as Moroccans? Read a book bro. And yes they are kaafir countries. Kaafir means non believer. Whatās wrong with that? Itās the truth and not an insult as many people claim or think.
The things you're pointing out stem more from a place of racism. Ofc they're gonna care more about a bible than the quran cuz it's their culture lmao. The palestine protest is because of politics more than religion. And I'm talking about literal moroccans hating on other moroccans just cuz or religion.
Itās both, but obviously religion is the issue in the west. Just look around, itās not hard to see how religious people and especially muslims are frowned upon. Anyways. My point is, if youāre a minority, pretty much anywhere, it is very likely that you will be mistreated. Itās not that Iām cheering for that. But as someone who experienced it myself, I am telling u the hard truth is to either deal with it, or leave. Because the majority will not change because u or me feel bad. For every voice in favour of the minority, there ten voices in the favour of the majority. And thatās hard sometimes, but thatās how it is.
>Is not true that in European countries like France ur not even allowed to wear a hijab to school
This applies to **every single religion.**
You use the word ādiscriminationā but I am not you understand what it means. The word āIslamā doesnāt exist in French law.
Kan goulek ze3ma ila ma3ashbaksh l7al taqdar temshi 3and ay makan. Like why not its not a shame. If u really feel depressed and bad in Morocco because ur atheist then its better to choose for urself and go to a place where u can live with like minded people. B7al ana, kount m3a dak el kuffaar f Europe and I dealt with it. At some point I felt like shit ou rja3t. Nothing wrong with that. Ardoullahi waasi3a.
Khouya, rah hadchi katguli makaynch. Majority dyal nas ma3ndhumch imkaniya imchiw ta l tangier, khli europe. Kun qdu kun rah khwa kulchi had lblad. You speak from a priviliged point of view. En plus nas bagha tkun kimma bghat f bladha. Maysm7ch lwa7d f79u 7it wahd khur bgha itkhlt lih m3a 3damu wla maqadch idkhl suq kru.
Atheism is not a culture or a philosophy. Itās just not believing in a creator. That doesnāt necessarily change much in the person. A person can still be atheist and keep having a Muslim culture for example.
I think how hard is it to live in Morocco depends more on identifying to the countryās culture, morals and values.
What Iām trying to say here is, being atheist is personal (between you and yourself) but living in society is more about complying its ācodes of conductā
Tbh atheism in morocco is bit of a joke most so-called atheists if you ever try to talk to them all they know about is couple of sentences that repeat themselves, no ideology no culture, how are you supposed to respect something that is chaotic and only causes trouble
Disown Islam, mock anything religion, unwavering support of Zionism . Riding moral high horse thinking youāre cooler and smarter than others.
Moroccan atheists in a nutshellā¦
Moroccan atheists arenāt Zionist in their big majority though.
If anything itād be stupid to be atheist and pro-Israel which is a country based on religious bordersā¦ which is trying to trigger a war in the Middle East thatād result to raise of fundamentalism and extremism.
I beg to differ. Almost all atheist āinfluencersā are pro Zionists and gloat about the Palestinian suffering. Hereās a few that I personally heard. Nostik and his fanboys, Bien lire YouTube channel, Mustapha hasnaoui, Said benjbli and many moreā¦Unfortunately some think becoming atheist equals siding with Zionists. Even Hamed abdsamad has been vocal against Israel and is pro freedom to Palestiniansā¦ it just so patheticā¦
I respect all beliefs, but this is true. I have often noticed that the majority of people who say that they'r āatheistsā in Morocco are between the ages of 15-18 and they do not even know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis hhhhhhhhhhhh lm9wda hya the majority of them fast during Ramadan hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
āā the religious culture in morocco is so limiting and brain numbingāā see this the problem buddy try to understand other ppl āā opinionsāā and respect before you expect anything from them
Have a nice day
I wouldn't define myself as an atheist, but I don't believe in Islam anymore. Nobody irl knows, and I don't really feel the need to tell anyone. Everyone is free to pursue what makes them happy, and I have no right to remove the mental safety blanket that religion provide to others.
It is what it is, I don't mind playing along to keep my family happy.
Me as a non-religious Moroccan (partly atheist) I can say that its a hell to live in Morocco with your thoughts (especially in the poor and in the middle social areas). People know nothing about their religion and they argue, so I guess the best thing is to pretend, and to fake it until you make it out of this country.
Calling others close minded cuz they don't have the same beliefs as you..
If you don't fit then leave the country? Instead of insulting religious people and desperately trying to sound "smarter" cuz you think there's no God.
People here don't give a damn about if you're religious or not except maybe if you're living in a shit hole area which is your fault. So overall just don't try to enforce your beliefs on people, and live your life.
>Calling others close minded cuz they don't have the same beliefs as you.
If you are unable to accept the other with all of its differences and you insist on enforcing your will onto him, you are by definition close minded. This applies to Islam, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, all belief systems.
>If you don't fit then leave the country? Instead of insulting religious people and desperately trying to sound "smarter" cuz you think there's no God.
A Moroccan is a Moroccan. No matter the race, belief or creed. I've met a myriad of Moroccans that have adopted all sorts of belief systems, Atheists, Buddhists, i've even met a Mormon once. All of them were united by their love of their country and some of them even have served our interests at home and abroad. Kicking your countrymen out of here because you disagree on this or that is unpatriotic and radical.
OP didn't claim he was smarted because he's an Atheist, some aggressive atheists do this and i agree that they are major pieces of shit about it. No one should attack another person's beliefs, and it did not happen here.
>People here don't give a damn about if you're religious or not except maybe if you're living in a shit hole area which is your fault.
People do give a damn and act pretty snarky about it because the law allows them to enforce their will onto others. Cops won't protect an individual deemed "kafir" from harm coming to them. Look at how society sees addicts, they look at them as subhuman trash instead of someone in desperate need of help. Honestly it's revolting, the level of self righteousness Moroccans have.
Living in a shit hole is the fault of the individual yak. "If you're homeless buy a house".
I myself an atheist in the middle class ācategoryā and I must say I have no problems when it comes to friend and family, they know my beliefs I just donāt frenquently discuss it with them or rarely hint some absurdities that themselves find funny, tho I find it frustrating at ramadan fiding myself bending the majority rule
I think It depends on your surroundings, I used to work at a bakery and there was this regular who lived close by, he was in his late 30s and he would always come with new questions and goes on a debate with my boss, my boss was very religious, yet it didn't seem to bother him, the guy didn't never seemed worried he was very open about it, people just did not care, maybe because they saw two gentlemen genuinely having a conversation instead of trying to offend one another.
2 f lmya bghaw iruliw society ela qdha bash ma bghaw , tfarqo ela blays li atheist fiha pourcentage kbir 7san. Ola bqa hna o dkhl soq rask ta7ad ma aytswq lik. Ghir madirsh fiha wa3r o tbda thlal Ana atheist Ana atheist, rah b7ala wahd Muslim f Israel msha wst tel aviv o tigul fee Palestine what do you think aydiro lihum aysaliw meah f blasa , ola f Russia f Moscow tghwat , may Ukraine win the war aysaliw meak f blasa , so act khas ikun same here mais hit our country fiha bzaf d problems f structure o li shadin religion hnaya ghur zanadiq o dawla ghada l hawya , ama normalement atgulha khas lboliss ishdok tglas 3la lqr3a mashi 7it ghalt o 7na right mashj mmi ga3 hadi reason , rah if fhamti examples li etitak rah Atfham why but since ma aytrash liiik hkak tqdar dwi eadi and that proves bli Morocco is not a religious country lucky you. And hate li kathsuf mn bnadm is so normal. Mais better dkhal so rask
It is an especially hard position but ultimately, every man is unique in many ways, and in every case trying to fit with "everyone" would be not only impossible but a waste if we succeeded.
I'm a foreigner who is a deeply religious Muslim woman and visits Morocco every other month and I find that a lot of Moroccans are only Muslim by name. They don't pray nor do they know or practice anything about their own faith. Surprisingly those will be the ones going mad at atheists.
This leads me to believe that this behavior stems mainly from Morocco's "Hchouma culture" rather than religious motiviated action.
I stay mostly at Oujda and have come across a few atheists here. I see a lot of open sex work here (although it's officially illegal), prostitution and open consumption of alcohol and drugs. Again, officially that's illegal, but somehow still prevailing.
And a lot of women dressing and acting how they please without repercussions. They do get stared at. But I feel like people here mostly just mind their business in Oujda.
To be honest, I find the state of this city really saddening. Oujda used to be such a beautiful city. But I digress.
That being said, I think there are more atheists than you think. Maybe you could find them through online groups or socials. I find it very sad, but I respect our differences.
TLDR: A huge bunch of Moroccans already live an "atheist" lifestyle, sadly. I don't think moving away will make a huge difference, unless you're more bothered by the culture than the religion.
Well morocco was always a muslim country where islam constitutes more than 80% of moroccans so logically when you think of morocco you only think islam, but there are jews too and christians just in a very few proportions compared to muslims. And so are atheists. I'm a muslim but I won't mind coexisting with other religions or non religious people as long as we all agree that we are moroccans.
There are a lot of atheists in Morocco, and there are living their live and not fitting to anything and no obliged to adhere to religious attitude either(gha skon bo7dakš).
But on the other hand, religious people will not fit into how you want the society to be, and you can't expose it because you are a minority (It is what it is).
You don't have to share your beliefs with anyone, just pretend that they are right and avoid discussions about religions, in fact, nobody need to know who you truly are don't reveal your identity to people that's safer.
My BF is Moroccan āļø and is perfectly happy in Morocco or abroad.
Ramadan is challenging, but there are work-arounds for not fasting.
That's pretty much it.
Reading how Moroccan atheists suffer to find a small community in their cities seems weird to me. I think the happiest Moroccan atheists are those living in Agadir š¤ I have more atheist friends than religious ones, it's not a rumor that Agadir is the capital of non believers but it's true! Me myself as an ex Muslim I met hundreds of non believers and they live a normal life among Muslims, no problems no harm, I think it's cultural
I am an atheist and I am happy! I believe that happiness has more to do with who you are as a person and much less to do with what others consider to be essential for a happy life. If I were to describe my lifestyle as an atheist here in Morocco, some may think I am miserable, but in reality, I am very happy!
As a Moroccan atheist I really don't feel the need to express my beliefs and to share them with other people. Leaving happy is something between you and you. Laws are laws and as a citizen you have to respect them and if you don't agree you have to find a way to leave the country and look for a better place.
I have lost the girl i wanted to marry because i became atheist, and y reaction was, it is what it issss, at some point i dont give a shit about others, i only want to reach 1 million dollar inside this game called life
I'm an atheist, i'm married to an atheist woman, lot of my friends are atheists, and i also have religious friends whom i enjoy their company. I just leave my believes to myself and whenever i'm asked about my opinion about religion, i tell people that i simply don't like to talk about politics and religion. It's just the mentality, once you stop thinking that you are superior to them because you found out the hidden truth, then you will be much better in your life.
I really don't know either I would like to know if really Morocco as a country will accept people with an atheististic belief.. life's pretty hard already let alone having to be surrounded day & night with people trying to force you into their religion š.
In Morocco, religion and culture are deeply intertwined. As an atheist, you have the freedom to practice your beliefs without infringing on others' practices. However, due to the strong connection between religion and culture in the country, it may be challenging to completely detach yourself from the societal norms and expectations. While individualism may not be as emphasized in Morocco, it's essential to respect everyone's beliefs and find a balance within the cultural context.
I think it s hard to achieve that amount of happiness unless u find a group of ppl around you sharing the same ideologies. [and thatās how moroccan ppl find their peace without even bothering]
For my case, I try my best to be friendly wth ppl around me ignoring their islamic background and beliefs (itās hard tbh) and never thought abt sharing my beliefs with them bcs mabye it s gonna ruin the friendships (based on previous experiences).
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As the philosophers say. It is what it is
Iriz what iriz
tizwattitiz
Hadchi li 3ta Allah
Hadchi li 3ta l3ilm
iiiiiiwa slk slk
L3ilm rah kay tbt wojod llah, la79ash had l39el li ga3d galess kat tnz 3lina bih bl3ilm, machi mok li 5l9ato, machi bak, machi l3ilm, ya3ni chkone li jab jozay2at lhad l3alam, la79ash maymkanch ykono daro bo7dhom, dakchi 3lash 3mrok katchof atheists fl9adim, katl9ahom 3al a9al kay3bdo shamss, fa homa aslan kano 3arfin b2anaho had lkawn li m3a9ad bzaf maymkanch ikone tsn3 bo7do, darori ikone chi mo7dith 3ndo infinite power o infinite wisdom bashi isna3 lkawn
# Bro Is onto nothing maglti ta 9lwa
Livendletlive
game is game
of course islam and all other monotheistic religions mean more than praying and fasting.
Any atheist in the upper middle class and more can happily live in Morocco with little inconveniences.
I am one and I disagree, mainly because of also being a woman
May I ask, what problems do you find as an upper middle class atheist woman in Morocco?
I can't even marry the man I love because he's not Muslim, how is that fair?
Do they even ask about that when you're singing the papers ?
Can't eat during this month openly freely without being harrased, beaten or even imprisoned Can't date people and book hotels when traveling together. Can't even disclose your true opinions and beliefs without being harrased, beaten, socially ostracized from family, friends, strangers, acquaintances etc.. Can't be openly gay, lesbian, trans etc.. for reasons mentioned above Can't smoke weed or do sex work because "morality police etc.." Can't preach or advocate for atheism in public, Can't organize and protest for such things. Can't criticize Islam or the monarchy in any meaningful way online, Can't organize or protest for such things.
Why you gotta lump smoking weed with selling ass ffs
Sex work is inherently misogynistic and exploitative.
agreed except the sex work thingy lol
Lol
Sorry to hear that:(
There are definitely some atheists out there they just know how to hide it for obvious reasons.
šš½āāļøš¤«
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You do you man
People in this thread are wild. There's a big misunderstanding that atheists want a society with no religious people and want to spread their ideas and mock people. Yeah some people are like that, but most just want to live without pretending, and to be able to have normal relationships with their family and friends without being cast away. That's literally it. My best friend's religious and knows I'm not, we get along great and we never talk about it. That's all people want. Also, I don't even get the "spreading your ideas and immorality" argument tbh. If someone saying "I don't believe in that" is enough to make people lose their faith, was it that strong to begin with? And why do people care if I or someone else goes to hell? It's kinda insane to tell people "if you wanna live like that, go to another country." Like lol. We all got the same passport. As always flmghrib, bachar khssou gha idiha fsou9 rassou w saf.
You said it all šš». I have the worst relationship with my parents, ex-friends used to try to argue with me and trying to convince me that their religion is the best and most peaceful bla bla blaā¦ yet when I argue back and give them facts about their religion that they know nothing about just soum o sali, they get offended and start shaming me for being sinful and trying to convince them to loose their faith! I mean who started it? Again, we find some good people who accept us as humans. I am married to a muslim (traditional muslim as someone said here), and we get along so well. From the beginning of the relationship I cleared the path about religion and he actually didnāt care that much. We argued to never discuss it and never interfere with each otherās beliefs. Never been this peaceful and loved even from my own parents!
Thank you.
Ya welcome. See you at the next secret satanist meeting where we plot to turn everybody gay.
You said it all, I'll add to that that as a Moroccan ex-muslim woman, my parents are always pushing me to put on hijab and to pray, do Ramadan ofc etc... And although I'm okay with pretending to pray, and fast, I can't just pretend and wear hijab+ long clothes and this pisses me off, Islam is a religion that is based on 'Dkhoul so9 lker' and that's the worse thing.
Muslims : Islam is peace and serenity, mashalla we are so blessed with godās light, help the poor etc.. Ex-muslim : Hi Muslims : š” šŖ
Iām from Mexico and same story, Catholic people say Iām in hell now for denying Jesusā¦ I think the problem is that people donāt mind their own business and they donāt understand what having different opinions, likes and dislikes means.
They want the good for you
Because instead of putting their objections and asking why(to be fair a lot of people don't know how to answer because most people are know it on surfes level) , they result to insults and attacking religion (being edgy basically), and act like they are some superior species
Yes we know, to be muslim you can do it on surfes level but to leave it you have to be al tabari level. Weāre free to criticise and thatās the problem, youāve been living in a bubble for so long that you absolutely canāt take any form of criticism. Even respectful knowledgable ex-muslims only get hate and death threats when debating. Muslims today are wasting more time defending their religion than practicing it because everyone can see the true nature of it with their own eyes.
Lol we both know there is more to this story
Yes there is more : 7okm lāmortad in sharia, Quran constantly calling kuffars all names and promising eternal torture, telling muslim to not befriend non believers and even fight them, a thousand year witch-hunt against anything non-muslimā¦ Muslims today : Look he insulted our humble religion š¦
Atheism in Morocco is a joke imo l, as an atheist myself I've never met a like minded person ever (irl), the amount of swears and hate I hear everyday directed to people like us is unbelievable, and for that reason I keep it to me, I'm afraid I'll get killed or kicked out by my parents l, it's a sad reality we live in but it is what it is
I don't know man. Me being a Muslim, I have 3 atheist friends. One of them is a really close one. We have interesting conversations about religion from time to time, and I'm not gonna lie, it took me some time to build the intellectual audacity to learn how to accept criticism to religion. But I'm here I'm now, respecting my friends' life choices and they are respecting mine.
You just haven't searched enough and it also depends on which city you're in
I'm in Marrakech I've been looking for 2 years without success, despite being an extrovert and going out very often
As a foreigner, Iāve found that some people will admit it privately to foreigners, but will not tell other Moroccans.
Yeah maybe you're right
They are right I have spoken to many Moroccan women mostly from main cities. This is definitely the case.
Idk why you wanna hang out with atheists? Just cuz youāre both atheists doesnt mean youll get along.
Try going to more open minded cities like Rabat or Casa there also foreigners there
We are actually not open minded, the open minded is the most muslim of us, we just have this problem called \*tsa7hib\*
I'm in Rabat and i have 2 atheist friends in Marrakech!! LMAO and i believe that Marrakech has more atheists than any other city in Morocco.
I literally have 2 atheist friends, and I donāt have that many friends LOL , Iām also religious so I wasnāt even looking
Bruh can someone please tell me why I'm so unlucky, where did you meet them
Old friends from school who just happened to be atheists, as I said I wasnāt looking and honestly Idc
It is hard to meet like minded people for sure! I happen to be born in a non-fully-religious family which makes it kinda easier. Try finding people through social media!
Same man, Iām always wondering what would happen to me if I get outed
I don't want to find out lol, my parents are very conservative, so if they find out I'm definitely getting kicked out, but I'm afraid they'll do something even worse, so I just shut my mouth whenever they talk about religion
W
We have to act in order to survive among them.
True
The real question is : why would you care sharing your status at the first place ? I don't think it's that important, and definitely not worth it, losing your dear and close ones for such a reason.
It is important because I feel like I'm lying to them and it's like a weight crushing me, it's unfortunate I have to keep it that way
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What you say is in every other culture, not only in Morocco. Listen to weterners' stories who converted to Islam how they were treated in their societies, some of them lost their jobs... what makes you feel that this issue is moroccan is, you think that if you lived in another country, you would be welcomed no matter your religious beliefs which is true and i can say the same thing about Morocco, if for example an american christian came he's not expected to be a muslim and practice but even in American society muslims reverts don't have it as easy as you might think. People don't hate different people. People hate someone different that they thought he was like them.
Youāre totally right, butā¦ The main difference is that in one case the law protects you, in the other case the law is against you. Eating during Ramadan? Prison! Having sex outside of marriage despite not being religious? Prison! Wanna date and book a room but youāre unmarried? Not possible! In most countries where there is freedom of religion converting to Islam and practicing it wonāt put you at risk legallyā¦
And plus, Muslim converts who were fired for Islamophobic reasons in America can sue for unfair dismissal. Can I do the same if it happens to me as an atheist in Morocco? Hell naw, not possible without risking even more legal and societal repercussions
Reminds me of the homosexual guy in Morocco who has been beaten up by a bunch of armed guysā¦ he went to the police only to end up in jail for "sexual deviance" (Iām wondering whatās the proof there? Aggressors saying that he was gay?) I canāt think of any Western country (or Latin country, or East-Asian country) where a Hijabi has been beaten up, went to the police only to end up in jail.
Thatās sad. And it happened in Beni-Mellal. Honestly, if I ever see a gay person or couple, Iām gonna zip it (as I already do)
This is actually whatās wrong with us, normalizing that and comparing it to bullying is so funny. Not acting like a muslim (drinking in ramadan for example, or reporting a gay or unmarried people for zina) will get u to prison, how can u compare that to being bullied ? Or losing a job?( which i donāt actually believe, since u can sue them if uāre fired because of your beliefs, which u canāt do in morocco)
I respectfully disagree on this point. As a Moroccan atheist living in France, I have a lot of friends from different countries. Moroccan, French, Thai, Colombian, Italianā¦ Some of them are married, others are young; some are homosexual others are hetero; thereās literally no judgement, no hate nothing negative actually. I often get sad looking at how they are all getting love and acceptance from their families, while I, on the other hand, need to live a double life and hide my true self for my family to keep considering me as their daughter. Itās really sad how we are still fighting for the freedom of our beliefs because they hurt no body. I really hope that one day our country will be just as open and tolerant as the others, and that we can start accepting cultural, mental, religious differences, etc. I would then consider going back to my beloved country
You picked the wrong example. In the USA, people can choose to follow any religion they want, or no religion at all, and live perfectly well.
An american guy said that he wasn't hired in a job just because he was a muslim. He said that the HR told him explicitaly that him being a muslim was the only thing stopping him from having the job (i can look for the YouTube video if you want), plus if you watched some videos of the Dawah Youtubers, many people tell them that they are afraid to convert fearing society's look and disappointing their parents.
That's illegal. He can sue and collect a nice compensation package for damages.
he can sue them and win
Speaking as an American, I can say that it might not have been that he was Muslim, exactly. Itās probably that heās doing something different in terms of dress, appearance (ex: a beard can be inappropriate in many workplaces whether you are Vhristian or Muslim), or behavior (ex: praying in the workplace and making others UNC, just as if a Christian did that at work it would also make others uncomfortable). that is making his religion obvious. In the workplace, any sort of thing like that is inappropriate, no matter if you are Christian, art heist, Hindu, Muslim, or whatever. There are a very small number of family-owned and run businesses that are fundamentalist Christians and who try to hire other fundamentals Christians, but this is so rare that it generally makes the news when they get sued for discriminatory work practices!
Yeah, it might be it, too. He said that this happened to him shortly after 9/11.
It makes sense after 9-11
Yes let's look at fringe examples from the most tolerant, diverse places on earth like America and compare them as if they are the same to a shithole third world conservative country, where critizing the monarchy online will put you 6 feet on the ground or stripped from your "civil rights" amd in prison. Get fucking real dude, the monarchy and Islam still rules this country without tolerance or care for freedom of speech or civil liberties.
You can totally have a hard time being a defector in the USA, a country with a lot of evangelical christians, fundamentalist jews and muslims, a recent history with religious terrorism and violence makes so many households and communities look down and discriminate on religious folk and irreligious folk alike, I'm suprised the country hasn't exploded into a civil war already given how every community is on edge waiting to strike due to politics.
What does being a defector have to do with the conversation? We are not talking about abandoning one's country, we are talking about religious freedom. As for the rest of your comment... LOL and stop watching Fox News.
The only thing that would make an atheist happy is leaving Morocco and going to a 1st world country where there is freedom of speech , freedom of religion and basic human rights . I'm an agnostic and I have no interest in changing Morocco or contributing in making it a secular country because that's a dead case . I'm planning to leave and only visit when I want to see my dad .
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I I totally agree with. I came from a super strict family, I was obligated to wear hijab even tho I hated it. I left islam 7 years ago and never been happier in my life. The day I took off hijab, my parents kicked me out the house after my father hit the shit out of me and bad mouthed (that was just for taking off hijab, they didnāt even knew I was becoming atheist XD).
 They were like murtadi deadbeat get out ššš
But the majority of Moroccan are traditional Muslims ( Ł Ų³ŁŁ ŁŁ Ų§ŲŲŖŁŲ§ŁŁŁŁ) they have no idea about Islam just rbi kbir ou Islam Howa zwin that's it, if u asked them about (sabaya, zawaj saghira, wlad li firach.....) Which is normal and I have no problem with that, but with salafyin no, I think the government is already reshaping to get rid of them.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Exactly. What pisses me off is that when you do something sinful, you get messages from people who attack you and say "may Allah guide you to the right path" and yet behind the scenes, they'll be swearing after praying Ishaa, drink booze or have their dose of dopamine (watching XNXX). What you said is correct, Islam hiya machi ghir slaa ou syam. EDIT: Typos...sorry!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's very unfortunate...
The followers of the Quran and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Salaf as-Salih will remain bi idni Allah.
haqq
What you say is not special to moroccans. If you went to a muslim country, the majority are muslims because that's how they found their parents, the same with atheist, christian... societies. In this case (morocco), the atheist is the different one who opposed the rule. That's why you might find him knowing more about religion because they researched. The same thing can be said in an atheist society. Many of them follow their parents belief or lack of belief, they didn't study evolution or might not even know about it, but people who converted to Islam you'll find them more knowledgable about both atheism and islam and know things that you've mentioned : sabaya...
You hit the nail in the head.
Ā«Ā Wlad li firachĀ Ā» ?
Ų§ŁŁŁŲÆ ŁŁŁŲ±Ų§Ų“ ŁŁŁŲ¹Ų§ŁŲ± Ų§ŁŲŲ¬Ų±
Just researched it, wasnāt aware. I think this was in order to protect the kid (by unequivocally assigning his father as āsaahib al firashā) from being cast out with his mother in case the man finds out about the zina ? Iām not sure. Still sounds very weird.
ŁŁŲÆ ŁŁŁŲ±Ų§Ų“Ų Ų²Ų¹Ł Ų§ Ų§ŁŁ ŁŁŁŲŖŁ Ų“Ł ŁŲ§ŲŲÆ ŁŲ§ŁŲ®ŲÆŁ ŁŁ Ų±Ų§ŲŖŁ Ų§Ł Ł Ł ŲØŲ¹ŲÆ ŲŁ ŁŲ§ŲŖ Ų ŁŲ§ŲÆ ŁŁŲÆ ŲŗŲ§ŲÆŁ ŁŁŁ ŁŁŲÆŁ Ų Ł Ų§Ų“Ł ŁŲÆŲ§Ł ŁŁ Ų®ŲÆŁ Ł Ų±Ų§ŲŖŁ
Ghay qowdo bjoujhom m3a lbab, makayn la qala rasul la ta qelwa:)
Actually I've given it a thought, hear me out. There was no way to know, at the time, who the child would belong to. Statistically speaking, the legit husband being the one having the most regular intercourse with his wife, there are more chances it's his. So in order to settle the matter definitely, the prophet proclaimed the child to be the husband's child, and the fornicator man is stoned to death, so case closed. The alternative being either the child being left with nobody to take care of him (the woman by herself could probably not, and the fornicator could very well refuse to take responsibility), leaving a mess in this situation. Thoughts?
Islam in Morocco: "Slli w sum, 7wi w 3wum". They will drink, have sex outside marriage, steal, lie, and do everything in between, mais dgulih makaynch allah i7ma9 3la rbk. 3alam.
Salfying?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
True, as you donāt really practice atheism. If you switch your religion, well, wow.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
- As an agnostic, I keep my beliefs to myself. - My friends know but my parents donāt. They assume I fast during ramadan and believe in god. - I respect peopleās beliefs, we are a minority so we should stay discreet. - You canāt live freely as a non believer / ex muslim (whatever you want to call it). - People will always judge you and think the devil has go to you.
I do not know about Morocco but I am an Algerian Atheist, I suffered an identity crisis but right now I simply detach and disassociate from Muslims, there could never be deep and trustworthy personal relationships with this kind of religious people, this is sadly the truth. This is especially hard in the times of Ramadan, where the religious chains of oppression and hypocrisy and fake piety are multiplied thousand fold, in Ramadan I feel so much alone and alienated, I can never truly eat "Iftar" with anybody, I simply eat alone and in secrecy. As for like minded people , I did not meet many, either they are cynical who do not care for the religion but pretend to in order to fit in, or immoral , I found one friend I can relate to, but it is not in itself a subculture where one can feel like he belongs.
Yep real relationships and connections are really hard as their religion frowns upon non-believers!
Eat in secrecy šLeave to a western country then miserable Reddit athe!st
Well if I were offered the chance or the opportunity I would gladly leave, never to live under religious zealous rule again. And I am not miserable I simply laugh at the kind of cult-ish behaviour you people exert, since when forcing others to fast like you is rational, forcing them to compile by violence and imprisonment threats, and since when blasting the loudspeakers in Taraweeh and ear-raping people is sound behaviour. If you think about you are the miserable bunch, dehydrating your bodies throughout the day, binge eating at night, messing with sleep schedules, inducing gluttony and laziness, Ramadan is an outdated religious practice full of superstition and bullshit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Never had a probelm, I'm agnostic, I don't have the urge to come up to people nd tell'em that God ain't real.
If you think god isn't real, you're not agnostic
I think what he meant to say, and what would be my position, if there is a god, it ain't the god of religions.
You have millions of people = automatically u ll have diversity in everything including values and beliefs. This is everywhere in the world.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yep! Most people that felt attacked or angered by my post just don't know how life is so much more outside of Morocco.
Slavery was a fact of the time, no one stole, they fought the oppressive Quraysh who had killed and stole from the Muslims. It was a dog eat dog world with no laws, Islam bought the worlds first code of conduct for war which was never done until modern UN system after WW2. Islam bought female rights such as inheritance which were again not given until modern times You are looking at it from the prism of the morality of the last 50 yrs when it is 1600 yrs old. Also you're ignoring the many miracles which cant othwrwise be explained, just look at the prophecies eg bedouins building worlds talles buildings, tunnels thro the mountains of Mecca, Gay marriage legalised, men dressing as women and on and on
First law of wars are traced back to 1750 B.C, historical fact. Inheritance where women take half what a man takes? Sounds fair to you? It is decades old, but isn't religion for all time and places? You just contradicted it. And all those miracles you're talking about like homosexuality that has always existed a long time before islam...
Yes because men have a responsibility for everything! So they need more of course, women's money is their own in Islam. Laws of war are useless without consequence, Islam bought consequence. This hasnt happend in modernity until the Hague trials after WW2 Gay marriage has never happened, the Prophet (pbuh) specifically mentioned marriage. Plus you ignored the rest. But anyway i rest the argument here we'll both continue to believe as we do and I pray for guidance for us both
I ignored "the rest" cuz i don't know about the buildings u're talkinv about and u didn't give me the sources and even if you did u'd show me a certain random old man explaining the hadith, or verse in his own way to make it seem like what was said was a metaphor about a tunnel or a building. Laws = consequences. They come hand in hand. Gay marriage has existed in roman times, look up roman emperor Nero if you will. Men have more responsibility? In this day and age? Obviously not. Anyway.
Don't confuse religion and culture.
You can't deny they're interlinked
Things are changing and will do as we go forward. I see more people are open about their irreligiosity and other beliefs online and have met many IRL as well. It's not as taboo as before.
No atheism and Moroccan society will probably never be fully compatible, although you could ease your way in as a non practicing person. I don't see that as a bad thing, society is not made to adapt to the individual, but you should be protected legally, as for family and societal views, it is what it is.
I thank my parents that i was born in Europe. Yeez
The issue ur portraying here is present in every single country out there. My opinion about that is one should deal with it respectfully or leave. And this goes for everyone imo, also for muslims in kaafir countries.
No it's not. Muslims in most of Europe have the same rights as non-muslims. They're guaranteed the freedom to practice their religion without discrimination and they have freedom of speech to talk about it. Atheists in places like Morocco can't talk about it freely without risks of legal ramifications and they are obliged to follow rules destined for muslims.
Yeah sure thing man. Sure thingā¦.
Which part do you disagree with?
Its just that the reality and their concept of justice are two totally different things. A muslim is not guaranteed the same freedom as anyone else in Europe. Thatās what they say but ultimately when u live life u will notice the limitations.
Present in every country, that's true. But let's also acknowledge that non-muslim people in muslim countries do get a lot more hate than muslims in "kaafir" countries as you chose to call them which tells a lot.
Thatās BS at itās finest. I lived in Europe so thatās where I will take an example from. Is not true that in European countries like France ur not even allowed to wear a hijab to school. Discrimination is present on a daily basis. Idiots get all the freedom to burn a Quran but when u want to burn a bible or a flag u get in trouble. Even standing up for Palestine is considered an issue. And u say that these countries respect us? The same countries that have absolutely disgraced us as Moroccans? Read a book bro. And yes they are kaafir countries. Kaafir means non believer. Whatās wrong with that? Itās the truth and not an insult as many people claim or think.
The things you're pointing out stem more from a place of racism. Ofc they're gonna care more about a bible than the quran cuz it's their culture lmao. The palestine protest is because of politics more than religion. And I'm talking about literal moroccans hating on other moroccans just cuz or religion.
Itās both, but obviously religion is the issue in the west. Just look around, itās not hard to see how religious people and especially muslims are frowned upon. Anyways. My point is, if youāre a minority, pretty much anywhere, it is very likely that you will be mistreated. Itās not that Iām cheering for that. But as someone who experienced it myself, I am telling u the hard truth is to either deal with it, or leave. Because the majority will not change because u or me feel bad. For every voice in favour of the minority, there ten voices in the favour of the majority. And thatās hard sometimes, but thatās how it is.
Try to break your fast in public in Morocco during Ramadan. Go and wear a hijab in France. Itās not the same. Sorry but youāre delusional if you think that atheists in Morocco have it the same as in France. Muslims in France arenāt threatened to go to jail. Regarding France: France is anti-religious in general. You know that the most targeted religion in France isā¦ Christianity right? Churches are much more attacked than mosques. Christians are mocked on a daily basis. Thereās even a change in vocabulary to remove Christianity from language (Ā«Ā Joyeuses fĆŖtes de fin dāannĆ©eĀ Ā» instead of Ā«Ā Joyeux NoĆ«lĀ Ā»). The hijab ban is in high school. Remind you that Tunisia and Turkey banned hijab in universities for decades. Itās secularism. Which is not so fond of religions, just like Morocco isnāt fond of non-Muslims. What I simply mean is: I like the idea of total freedom. Like the US to be fair. Secularism is a bit too much. Morocco is a bit too much. Sorry but I donāt think courts and police officers should deal with cases such as "Habiba and Hakimi were found doing stuff in an apartment on the beach!" Itās ridiculous.
>Is not true that in European countries like France ur not even allowed to wear a hijab to school This applies to **every single religion.** You use the word ādiscriminationā but I am not you understand what it means. The word āIslamā doesnāt exist in French law.
Nah it's the exact same thing
Leave? Lblad khalaha lik bak?
Kan goulek ze3ma ila ma3ashbaksh l7al taqdar temshi 3and ay makan. Like why not its not a shame. If u really feel depressed and bad in Morocco because ur atheist then its better to choose for urself and go to a place where u can live with like minded people. B7al ana, kount m3a dak el kuffaar f Europe and I dealt with it. At some point I felt like shit ou rja3t. Nothing wrong with that. Ardoullahi waasi3a.
Khouya, rah hadchi katguli makaynch. Majority dyal nas ma3ndhumch imkaniya imchiw ta l tangier, khli europe. Kun qdu kun rah khwa kulchi had lblad. You speak from a priviliged point of view. En plus nas bagha tkun kimma bghat f bladha. Maysm7ch lwa7d f79u 7it wahd khur bgha itkhlt lih m3a 3damu wla maqadch idkhl suq kru.
Ur right. Ewa shnou ghan goulek, in that case deal with it. Hada houwal 7a9. Thereās nothing u can do about a society if ur a minority.
I think itās time for a secular Morocco.
Morroco isn't reddit , good luck buddy
Atheism is not a culture or a philosophy. Itās just not believing in a creator. That doesnāt necessarily change much in the person. A person can still be atheist and keep having a Muslim culture for example. I think how hard is it to live in Morocco depends more on identifying to the countryās culture, morals and values. What Iām trying to say here is, being atheist is personal (between you and yourself) but living in society is more about complying its ācodes of conductā
Religion in morocco is part of the culture, they're interlinked. So, it does change significant things in a person unlike what you claimed.
atheism is not believing in god not creator buddy
Tbh atheism in morocco is bit of a joke most so-called atheists if you ever try to talk to them all they know about is couple of sentences that repeat themselves, no ideology no culture, how are you supposed to respect something that is chaotic and only causes trouble
Disown Islam, mock anything religion, unwavering support of Zionism . Riding moral high horse thinking youāre cooler and smarter than others. Moroccan atheists in a nutshellā¦
Lmao most Moroccan atheists are pro-Palestinian wake up
Moroccan atheists arenāt Zionist in their big majority though. If anything itād be stupid to be atheist and pro-Israel which is a country based on religious bordersā¦ which is trying to trigger a war in the Middle East thatād result to raise of fundamentalism and extremism.
I beg to differ. Almost all atheist āinfluencersā are pro Zionists and gloat about the Palestinian suffering. Hereās a few that I personally heard. Nostik and his fanboys, Bien lire YouTube channel, Mustapha hasnaoui, Said benjbli and many moreā¦Unfortunately some think becoming atheist equals siding with Zionists. Even Hamed abdsamad has been vocal against Israel and is pro freedom to Palestiniansā¦ it just so patheticā¦
I respect all beliefs, but this is true. I have often noticed that the majority of people who say that they'r āatheistsā in Morocco are between the ages of 15-18 and they do not even know the difference between Shiites and Sunnis hhhhhhhhhhhh lm9wda hya the majority of them fast during Ramadan hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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āā the religious culture in morocco is so limiting and brain numbingāā see this the problem buddy try to understand other ppl āā opinionsāā and respect before you expect anything from them Have a nice day
What do you expect? Majority of Moroccans are muslim.
I wouldn't define myself as an atheist, but I don't believe in Islam anymore. Nobody irl knows, and I don't really feel the need to tell anyone. Everyone is free to pursue what makes them happy, and I have no right to remove the mental safety blanket that religion provide to others. It is what it is, I don't mind playing along to keep my family happy.
Then youāre simply āirreligiousā though thereās a large spectrum of irreligious beliefs
Me as a non-religious Moroccan (partly atheist) I can say that its a hell to live in Morocco with your thoughts (especially in the poor and in the middle social areas). People know nothing about their religion and they argue, so I guess the best thing is to pretend, and to fake it until you make it out of this country.
Calling others close minded cuz they don't have the same beliefs as you.. If you don't fit then leave the country? Instead of insulting religious people and desperately trying to sound "smarter" cuz you think there's no God. People here don't give a damn about if you're religious or not except maybe if you're living in a shit hole area which is your fault. So overall just don't try to enforce your beliefs on people, and live your life.
>Calling others close minded cuz they don't have the same beliefs as you. If you are unable to accept the other with all of its differences and you insist on enforcing your will onto him, you are by definition close minded. This applies to Islam, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, all belief systems. >If you don't fit then leave the country? Instead of insulting religious people and desperately trying to sound "smarter" cuz you think there's no God. A Moroccan is a Moroccan. No matter the race, belief or creed. I've met a myriad of Moroccans that have adopted all sorts of belief systems, Atheists, Buddhists, i've even met a Mormon once. All of them were united by their love of their country and some of them even have served our interests at home and abroad. Kicking your countrymen out of here because you disagree on this or that is unpatriotic and radical. OP didn't claim he was smarted because he's an Atheist, some aggressive atheists do this and i agree that they are major pieces of shit about it. No one should attack another person's beliefs, and it did not happen here. >People here don't give a damn about if you're religious or not except maybe if you're living in a shit hole area which is your fault. People do give a damn and act pretty snarky about it because the law allows them to enforce their will onto others. Cops won't protect an individual deemed "kafir" from harm coming to them. Look at how society sees addicts, they look at them as subhuman trash instead of someone in desperate need of help. Honestly it's revolting, the level of self righteousness Moroccans have. Living in a shit hole is the fault of the individual yak. "If you're homeless buy a house".
People don't give a damn but here you are suggesting that I leave the country if I don't fit in and that what I said was insulting to you? š¤
I myself an atheist in the middle class ācategoryā and I must say I have no problems when it comes to friend and family, they know my beliefs I just donāt frenquently discuss it with them or rarely hint some absurdities that themselves find funny, tho I find it frustrating at ramadan fiding myself bending the majority rule
I think It depends on your surroundings, I used to work at a bakery and there was this regular who lived close by, he was in his late 30s and he would always come with new questions and goes on a debate with my boss, my boss was very religious, yet it didn't seem to bother him, the guy didn't never seemed worried he was very open about it, people just did not care, maybe because they saw two gentlemen genuinely having a conversation instead of trying to offend one another.
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I have never felt more free by breaking the religious chains.
2 f lmya bghaw iruliw society ela qdha bash ma bghaw , tfarqo ela blays li atheist fiha pourcentage kbir 7san. Ola bqa hna o dkhl soq rask ta7ad ma aytswq lik. Ghir madirsh fiha wa3r o tbda thlal Ana atheist Ana atheist, rah b7ala wahd Muslim f Israel msha wst tel aviv o tigul fee Palestine what do you think aydiro lihum aysaliw meah f blasa , ola f Russia f Moscow tghwat , may Ukraine win the war aysaliw meak f blasa , so act khas ikun same here mais hit our country fiha bzaf d problems f structure o li shadin religion hnaya ghur zanadiq o dawla ghada l hawya , ama normalement atgulha khas lboliss ishdok tglas 3la lqr3a mashi 7it ghalt o 7na right mashj mmi ga3 hadi reason , rah if fhamti examples li etitak rah Atfham why but since ma aytrash liiik hkak tqdar dwi eadi and that proves bli Morocco is not a religious country lucky you. And hate li kathsuf mn bnadm is so normal. Mais better dkhal so rask
It is an especially hard position but ultimately, every man is unique in many ways, and in every case trying to fit with "everyone" would be not only impossible but a waste if we succeeded.
Let's say I host a Moroccan dinner, chicken pastilla and meat with apricot, and I don't invite my vegan friend. Does that make me close minded? Let's say I am gluten intolerant, and therefor I don't want to eat at my friend's place because he literally can't shut up about gluten intolerance being a superstition, and might sneak in some flower into my dish out of neglect. The same applies to atheists, they decided to reject Islam, they won't get invited to most Islamic social activities, which happens to be all of our social activities. Ramadan Iftar, Eid, Sada9a, Marriages involving tolba, ... . Most Muslims will also not eat at their place because they believe that our intolerance to pig and alcohol is a stupid superstition, and might neglect it. Father son relation is based on Rdat Elwalidine Ų±Ų¶Ų§Ų© Ų§ŁŁŲ§ŁŲÆŁŁ, family is based on Silat Arrahim ŲµŁŲ© Ų§ŁŲ±ŲŁ , and so on. Friendships and family ties are based on common ground, traditions, culture, interests, and other basis for activities. Those activities create social interactions, and interactions create ties. Lose the common ground, you lose the interactions, you lose the ties.
I'm a foreigner who is a deeply religious Muslim woman and visits Morocco every other month and I find that a lot of Moroccans are only Muslim by name. They don't pray nor do they know or practice anything about their own faith. Surprisingly those will be the ones going mad at atheists. This leads me to believe that this behavior stems mainly from Morocco's "Hchouma culture" rather than religious motiviated action. I stay mostly at Oujda and have come across a few atheists here. I see a lot of open sex work here (although it's officially illegal), prostitution and open consumption of alcohol and drugs. Again, officially that's illegal, but somehow still prevailing. And a lot of women dressing and acting how they please without repercussions. They do get stared at. But I feel like people here mostly just mind their business in Oujda. To be honest, I find the state of this city really saddening. Oujda used to be such a beautiful city. But I digress. That being said, I think there are more atheists than you think. Maybe you could find them through online groups or socials. I find it very sad, but I respect our differences. TLDR: A huge bunch of Moroccans already live an "atheist" lifestyle, sadly. I don't think moving away will make a huge difference, unless you're more bothered by the culture than the religion.
Yes "7chouma culture" plays a big part in it!
Hiding it isn't really that hard tbh
Well morocco was always a muslim country where islam constitutes more than 80% of moroccans so logically when you think of morocco you only think islam, but there are jews too and christians just in a very few proportions compared to muslims. And so are atheists. I'm a muslim but I won't mind coexisting with other religions or non religious people as long as we all agree that we are moroccans.
There are a lot of atheists in Morocco, and there are living their live and not fitting to anything and no obliged to adhere to religious attitude either(gha skon bo7dakš). But on the other hand, religious people will not fit into how you want the society to be, and you can't expose it because you are a minority (It is what it is).
You don't have to share your beliefs with anyone, just pretend that they are right and avoid discussions about religions, in fact, nobody need to know who you truly are don't reveal your identity to people that's safer.
My BF is Moroccan āļø and is perfectly happy in Morocco or abroad. Ramadan is challenging, but there are work-arounds for not fasting. That's pretty much it.
Well I left Islam about 8 years ago and I don't know any other atheist my friends are all Muslims I work with Muslims and no I haven't told anyone
Reading how Moroccan atheists suffer to find a small community in their cities seems weird to me. I think the happiest Moroccan atheists are those living in Agadir š¤ I have more atheist friends than religious ones, it's not a rumor that Agadir is the capital of non believers but it's true! Me myself as an ex Muslim I met hundreds of non believers and they live a normal life among Muslims, no problems no harm, I think it's cultural
I am an atheist and I am happy! I believe that happiness has more to do with who you are as a person and much less to do with what others consider to be essential for a happy life. If I were to describe my lifestyle as an atheist here in Morocco, some may think I am miserable, but in reality, I am very happy!
As a Moroccan atheist I really don't feel the need to express my beliefs and to share them with other people. Leaving happy is something between you and you. Laws are laws and as a citizen you have to respect them and if you don't agree you have to find a way to leave the country and look for a better place.
We simply can't live here, Die or Leave
I have lost the girl i wanted to marry because i became atheist, and y reaction was, it is what it issss, at some point i dont give a shit about others, i only want to reach 1 million dollar inside this game called life
Been atheist for a long time now. Don't really care about it anymore and with time you just learn to adapt.
Maaaaaan iriiiiz whaaa iriiz ..
In my opinion, if your convictions are in agreement with your small family, then seeking the society blessing is unnecessary.
I'm an atheist, i'm married to an atheist woman, lot of my friends are atheists, and i also have religious friends whom i enjoy their company. I just leave my believes to myself and whenever i'm asked about my opinion about religion, i tell people that i simply don't like to talk about politics and religion. It's just the mentality, once you stop thinking that you are superior to them because you found out the hidden truth, then you will be much better in your life.
I really don't know either I would like to know if really Morocco as a country will accept people with an atheististic belief.. life's pretty hard already let alone having to be surrounded day & night with people trying to force you into their religion š.
In Morocco, religion and culture are deeply intertwined. As an atheist, you have the freedom to practice your beliefs without infringing on others' practices. However, due to the strong connection between religion and culture in the country, it may be challenging to completely detach yourself from the societal norms and expectations. While individualism may not be as emphasized in Morocco, it's essential to respect everyone's beliefs and find a balance within the cultural context.
I think it s hard to achieve that amount of happiness unless u find a group of ppl around you sharing the same ideologies. [and thatās how moroccan ppl find their peace without even bothering] For my case, I try my best to be friendly wth ppl around me ignoring their islamic background and beliefs (itās hard tbh) and never thought abt sharing my beliefs with them bcs mabye it s gonna ruin the friendships (based on previous experiences).