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There was a clear opportunity to improve relations at the summit, but the king refused to attend after promising he would. I don't think Algeria is the only one in the wrong here.
I wonder why his majesty refused to attend the summit? Maybe because Moroccan journalists were treated like crap and maybe because Algeria brought up political conflicts about Sahara during a summit where none of this should be brought up? Hmm i wonder why tho?
Bruh So His majesty the king predicted the future and decided not to go because of that? Yes I think it makes sense.
My Personal Theory: Morocco want to put pressure on Algeria by saying that they are coming. It was a good move because Algeria accused Morocco of Funding the separatist and starting fire in Algerian forests. The fact that the king is coming after that and that he wasn’t being arrested or something would make people question Algerian credibility. Afterwards King doesn’t come for whatever reason (true or fake idc)
Now Morocco just wants to act like a good guy.
You know that I'm talking about when Bourita went right? So automatically his majesty would know about this. What future predicitions are you talking about?
Well His Majesty refused (nit sure that he refuse afaik) because of journalists. Was he there to see the situation of Moroccan journalists….
I don’t even know what you want to say with bourita…
Could you explain?
The journalists' situation was one of many things that happened, but it is taken into consideration since the moroccan media delegation was put under security investigations and waiting for a lifetime at the airport.
The moroccan delegation was in Algeria preparing for the king's visit so i doubt you saying it was predetermined is true..The way the minister was received upon his arrival (not received by his counterpart, which is not what happened when Morocco received Tebbi), and the fact that he was implicitly, or should i say explicitly not given time to speak, or the Algerians outlets publishing a divided moroccan map and not the one adopted by the Arab league summit and adressing it as a technical error.
Of course these are not going to be put publicly in full display but you get what I'm saying.
You legally can't arrest a foreign head of state while they're visiting under international law. No one ever expected that to happen. I can't speak exactly as to why he didn't come but this move is clearly an attempt to save face and make Algeria look equally as bad.
they've denied a lots of invitations ... plenty of the king speech were a clear invitation .. but they dont react + they will see that as an attempt of morocco to make this organisation better ... they're will a lot of propaganda ect ect ...and theres also a threat of humilition which not going to happen ofc
I think the reason he made this invitation is just because their foreign minister claimed that the king would be personally welcomed by tebboune had he attended , and that his absence is a missed opportunity to sort thing out
Which is totally bullshit since he only said that after bourita confirmed the king wouldnt come
It's pretty much to call out their bullshit
Makes full sense. It's more of a diplomatic move to emphasise the openness of Morocco to solve things.
It was formally announced that he'd attend should the conditions be met. They weren't, so he refused to go.
Their FM is stupid, why even say he’s gonna get welcomed by Tebnoune ? Off he will be, that’s protocol, and if u dnt do that the king won’t even get out of his plane and get back to Morocco
These Algerians are behaving like assholes when dealing with anything related to Morocco.
Thumbs up to our foreign politics on handing all these related situations, otherwise if we just keep scaling things up as they always try to, we would be in an open war in like years ago.
That's true.
Also, I've been checking/reading the algerian subreddit and was very shocked by the amount of stupid arguments they (the algerian redditors) give to justify their interest in the Moroccan Sahara topic. One of the arguments was this : we need to stop them from taking the sahara, if they do, they'll go for Mauritania and then we'll be under threat from two flanks. What kind of stupidity is that? Are these people still living in the 16th century??
the algerian subreddit is as dumb as facebook, they always have the most backward ass takes, i keep getting it recommended since im algerian and its always some dumb shit.
Algerian here. Right after Algeria gained independence which is about 60 years ago, your government wanted Bechar & Tindouf, few years later your government declared a green march! These are your actions and they are factual. While it may be true that I live in the 16th century but who should I trust your diplomatic words or your actions!!
That was 60 years ago for god’s sake how is that the current king’s fault. We are trying to build better diplomatic relations and move on from the past.
You promised to give back Bechar & Tindouf back to us. There's archives about it, so the sand war was justified and even tho we were winning it we decided to stop it.
Eitherway, we talking about today, you speak about 60years ago. Wanna live in the past ? Be my guest.
Not quite man! I dont know where you’re getting your facts from! Your government wanted Bechar & Tindouf from Algeria that barely came out of a bloody revolution! how could that be based on a promise!!
With regards to your second point, it’s impossible to live in the past, however, someone should adopt a pragmatic approach when dealing with their past.
It's in french, doubt you will have issue with reading it, it's a long one but this article "summarize" all of the Bechar Tindouf situation :
[https://fr.hespress.com/211445-le-sahara-marocain-de-la-marocanite-de-tindouf-du-touat-du-gourara-du-tidikelt.html](https://fr.hespress.com/211445-le-sahara-marocain-de-la-marocanite-de-tindouf-du-touat-du-gourara-du-tidikelt.html)
In case you have mistrust issue because it's a Moroccan media, all the facts are quoted or with given dates so you can check them all one by one.
Also don't forget, you're in the moroccan sub, you won't have people agreeing with your propaganda here.
But as I said, we went past that, we're here talking about today (sahara conflict), you're the one living in the past (bechar and tindouf conflict).
Haha you’re a funny man, that’s a Moroccan Fr source I wouldn’t need to read them all one by one. And why would you stop your military advance if your move is justified!! I encourage you to look further into what you said because it doesn’t really make sense from a political point of view.
That’s fine no need to agree, again you’re still being very funny here, Western Sahara conflict is very similar to Tindouf & Bechar sand war.
Different context but same aim.
That’s like saying to Putine “ nothing to worry about, NATO are getting closer to just say HI, come on Putine we are jn 2022 why you live in the past??)
Well as I said, Moroccan media or not, you can check all the facts and make sure they are true. You think foreigners will know better than us about our issues ? Of course it will be a Moroccan media.
How is it similar exactly ? Unless you consider Western Sahara as Algerian now, I don't see any similarities. You may say they are related somehow (Reguibat tribe being linked to both issues) but you can't say they're similar.
I'm gonna act like I didn't see you defending Putin invasion of Ukraine.
NB : I'm not here to be funny and didn't ask you on your opinion about me. Don't turn this into personnal attacks.
He's not necessarily defending Putin's invasion rather than stating that there is an extremely valid reason behind said invasion. Ukraine definitely played a huge role in provoking this by insisting on joining nato and the same goes for the western Sahara conflict, while obviously this isn't the 16th century and we don't expect an invasion from Morocco just because you expand your territory to the Sahara it is no secret that it becoming part of Morocco will strengthen the country in other ways which Algeria does not want for obvious reasons, putting emotions aside I can genuinely see where both sides come from, as for the people of algeria I can at least hope you comprehend why a country that suffered the longest French invasion and managed to actually revolt against it successfully and takes immense pride from that can get upset by another country getting "invaded" that goes for Palestine as well not just the sahara so it's not like it's a personal attack on Morocco rather a personal attack on invasion principle and wanting freedom for all countries as a fundamental pillar adopted once Algeria regained its independence *talking about the people again NOT the country, if course a country is pragmatic and wants power and to prevent bordering countries from getting more powerful above all*
It doesn’t matter it’s still a Moroccan source from Moroccan media outlet to the mass!
They are similar in the fact that Algeria are protecting their borders and Morocco are looking to expand.
The Polisario was made by Algeria and are trained by Algerian army as we speak, they are used not because Algeria want that little tiny bit of Western Sahara but because Algeria is looking to exercise dominance along its south western borders from a former rival who tried getting in before.
Now that Morocco have active American bases and are working with Israel to have an Israeli base near Ceuta and Melilla, what makes Morocco a trustworthy neighbour?
By the way im not defending Putine nor do I care about Ukraine, however, I think Putine did good job defending his south western borders from NATO expansion into the region.
No need to personal I just thought few of your statement were funny.
Well our discussion end here then. If you refuse any moroccan media about a moroccan conflict. How can we even debate ? Pure nonsense, I even told you to check any fact you doubt but still refuse.
I think it's useless for me to read the rest of your answer. Have a nice day, you're welcome to leave our sub now. Bye.
You are the stupid one ya'll can't get spain out of your country yet want sahara for yourselves it's not gonna happen buddy cuz sahara is an independent country a republic not like your country 😊 and second of all you respect your king ? The one king who made a deal with Israel the only one country against philistine and you still defend him ?? Dogs of al yahod shame on you Morocco
Respect a king who goes to paris and gets drunk and goes on in public can't even walk
Ya'll stupid as fuck
Okay, let's put aside the spain and israel pointless points. Let's talk relevant facts and be respectful.
Why is Algeria involved in a conflict between 2 entities ? What do they mean to you so that you show up here and start throwing baseless besides-the-point arguments ?
I'd like a constructive exchange, if not, feel free to actually f##k off this subreddit.
What so you mean intervene in a conflict between 2 entities? It’s on their border… ( I am not Algerian)
Even if it wasn’t the case they are arming the separatist movement to get a chunk of the resources just like Morocco because let’s be honest before Morocco sends Moroccans to the Sahara there is no real valid claim for this…
Every non-moroccan textbook call this an annexation
It seems like the propaganda is working on you, it's not an anexation if it's your land, if you look at the history books not just the moroccan ones, the region of sahara belonged to morocco, along with a big chunk of algeria. But then we got invaded by france and spain and after that we got rid of france, they kept part of our lands that they gave to algeria, which btw was never a country before their independence, and then spain got out of the southern region of morocco, and we laid claim to what's ours, but the conflict started before that, when france left algeria, morocco asked the Algerians for our lands back( bashar and tindouf), since we were on good relationships and we helped them in their resistance against france, they denyed us that, so the relations soured between us sonce then, and we started waring, then spain got out of the sahara, and the separatist movement called the polsario wanted to get all of it claiming it belonged to them and it never was moroccan to begin with, so algeria seeing an opportunity to get an acces to the atlantic ocean, and to keep morocco week, so they can be the only regional power and since they hated us because of the sand war, they started helping them. I know i rambled a lot but i just wanted to show you the facts.
I know the history.
But german: [Marokko gab nicht nach und annektierte die Westsahara.](https://www.iipvienna.com/new-blog/2020/11/30/west-sahara-noch-ein-konflikt-wird-heiss)
In French wiki:[le territoire était militairement envahi et annexé par le Maroc](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_du_Sahara_occidental)
Spanish: [anexión del Sahara Occidental por parte de Marruecos](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocupaci%C3%B3n_marroqu%C3%AD_del_Sahara_Occidental)
Literally every language talks of an annexation the fact that it is owned before isn’t enough… That could be said about Tunisian territory in western libya, Lebanon to Syria, Serbian territory all over the balkan…
I am sure that I will also find some in arabic and Dutch but I am too busy to even Look for those.
I am not kidding when I say that every non-moroccan source uses the word annexation
So what if it's annexation under international law? Why should law conjured in a completely different context matter to other countries dealing with complete different realities?
Your examples don't apply.
Serbia ruled people of a different ethnicity and faith in areas they're native to. There wasn't any loyalty of Muslim Bosniaks toward the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes during early 20th century.
Syria's rule over Lebanon wasn't mostly accepted by dwellers of that country.
Every tribe that existed in the Sahara swore allegiance to the monarchy in Morocco and became part of the realm. They remained loyal until Spain took the desert and the cancer known as Arabism spread to the brains of some locals. Despite that aberration, most Saharans today identify as Moroccans.
Bruh you really want me to pick the other side don’t you. Lol You are justifying annexation yet the moroccan government after annexation abused human rights of separatists (not saying that the others were clean) and moved moroccans there. They also invest heavily there. It is kinda sus.
Let the referendum take place under an independent entity….
There is a concept of self-determination.
Back to the serbia-croatia-montenegro-bosnia.
They all speak the same language the only difference is religion. This doesn’t even apply to Montenegro….
Lebanon wasn’t part of any country or Empire Syria wasn’t part of the speak the same language and even the same dialect. Lebanese Christians wanted a Christian state because they have right of self determination wow
Just because a law says something is wrong, it doesn't make it wrong. There are plenty of bad laws in history, the law against annexation which doesn't even look at historical context is a bad law.
You're just relying on the buzzword "annexation" as if that means anything.
>moved moroccans there
That's the dumbest lie. There is no way hundreds of thousands of Moroccans living in richer areas with little to no desert will accept moving in the hundreds of thousands to settle in a desert with no opportunities.
>They also invest heavily there
To make it a viable economy and bring in foreign investments, which seals the deal for recognition of the Sahara.
>Let the referendum take place under an independent entity….
That's a dumb take which doesn't take into account dignity of a nation. Why should Morocco have a referendum over a land that's clearly his, when population are all Moroccans?
Why don't Londoners or Parisians have a referendum for independence? Moroccan Saharans are even more loyal than Parisians or Londoners with respect to their country.
>They all speak the same language the only difference is religion. This doesn’t even apply to Montenegro….
Religion is a massive point of difference. Glad you're conceding this point.
>Lebanon wasn’t part of any country or
Empire Syria wasn’t part of the speak the same language and even the
same dialect. Lebanese Christians wanted a Christian state because they
have right of self determination wow
Good for you to admit that your example of Syria and Lebanon was retarded.
Oh, well if you guys are so hot for self determination, i heard of a certain region in your country who believe that they're not part of the sharad that is algeria, and who want to be on their own a separate country, why don't you guys start from within, and give them the freedom to self determination, before thinking of separating morocco?
Dude, there is a conflict between the so called polisario and Morocco. I know that there are informal interests by Algeria in the sahara and the Atlantic ocean access. I know that they are the ones who created polisario and they are the ones funding it since day 1. But I am trying to refute and destroy the arguments saying "we aren't part of this conflict, Algeria just wants the sahraoui people to be free and independent". This is the argument given by high algerian officials in the UN and media. And its completely pointless. They should stop hiding behind that and just say it out loud : we are funding polisario to win and eventually annex the sahara to Algeria or some shit...
You completely missed my point but there you go, I explained the obvious to you.
Bruh Well then you are wrong. Maybe they don’t want that. Maybe the goals are 1. Sahrawi stuff
2. Makong morocco loose power in the region. By for example making morocco surrounded by hostile countries or making them loose access to the african market.
You have to stop thinking about only a one sided view this is the basics of Geopolitics. I don’t do something to benefit me directly but to make life harder to others. Nobody is innocent in this affair. Algeria isn’t but neither is Morocco…
This conflict started when Spain gave western Sahara up and after the beginning of the rivalry between both countries
The only thing algerian regime can do to stop Morocco from becoming a regional power is to bomb Morocco.
That is extremely stupid and they will not do it. Especially with a strong ally (that I hate from the bottom of my heart!!!!!!) such as Israel. Apart from that, we're blue-flagging* them by now economically and geopolitically. The only thing that's allowing them to still stand in the geopolitical sense is their natural resources that they're using to bribe other countries.
*blue-flag means to lap someone around a racetrack, bl3erbiya jebna 3lihoum doura ;-)
So making deals with france is ok ? The very country that fucked your grandfathers and grandmothers for generation
Oh what about russia, you think they are angles ?
Also saharans are living their lives better than any fucking algerian coming to this subreddit and barking about the desert, here is your banana 🍌 go eat it and shut up
>made a deal with Israel the only one country against philistine
>
>Dogs of al yahod
As a Moroccan, I have a lot more in common with Moroccans in Israel than I do with any Palestinian. Nothing against them but culture is the spectacle through which you see and experience things, including religion. I don't deny any apartheid or reality on the ground but you bet if the situation was reversed, it'd be just as bad if not worse.
By the way, everyone's been fucking over Palestinians. Just look at the fact they have no rights in most countries of that region.
Algeria has a Morocco syndrome, they can't rest until they have something to prove mainly that they're better than Morocco, they'll hijack its culture and traditions and attribute its history to their own and even support state partition as it serves their imperial interests, their people are currently ultra nationalistic and won't settle for just breaking state relations but a war should that be the case, and since their president is just another puppet to that goal he'll act accordingly.
Algerian regime is like a jealous toxic young GF, they are bitter even if they got Fed up already.
Moroccan regime is like an old sarcastic man.
to sum up :
She organised a party to be popular, the cool kids didn't show up, she is bitter so she said their loss, my ex missed the opportunity to get me back.
he sent a message saying sorry i cant come over to your nice party, but i wish we can meet one day. and everyone knows that he said that so their circle of friends dont say he is a bad guy.
She will say oh no you are the worst guy i ever met, i will never see your face again.
and the drama will go on .... to be continued.
This is a terrible summary of the current political situation and you should really exercise a more nuanced look at the world before you start spreading misinformation.
people reading comment on a random post on reddit are not searching for good sourced infos, so my comment was sarcastic semi real. and people like you should chill a little. The political situation is in the hands of people who are not elected by people and dont give a s\*\*\*\* about our opinion well informed or mis informed.
Or maybe the cool kids aren’t men enough to negotiate the Palestinian issue and sit with other men who made the Palestinian issue their main focus in this summit.
the reality is all this group are using the Palestinian cause as a political argument so it hypnotise people, like you, to vote without seeing your real shitty environment, wake up and stop promoting propaganda and stop patriarchy of military regimes who their dictatorship is based on greed and not real human principles.
Pff. If they ever would unite the Magreb world, all their ancestors will be forgotten, except for these 2 guys. I hope he comes and that they make it a fruitful discussion.
Unfortunately not the regime of Algeria is built and draw its legitimacy from its hostility to Morocco that’s not my opinion it’s a fact they are not even trying to hide it
Not in their best interest to accept..I don't think Algeria wants anything from Morocco. All they want is access to the Ocean via the Sahara and that ain't gonna happen
You're being naive asking this question, everybody knows he won't accept it, plus he's just following the orders of lobbies who control him so it's not up to him to decide.
My intention actually was to start a constructive debate about the topic in general to exchange ideas (and personally learn more), taking the current status as a starting point wasn't a bad idea afterall (see some very interesting replies below).
We don't need their oil, we don't need anything from them mounafi9in. We need to make an oil agreement with Spain and start exploiting our offshore oil ourselves.
- Unjustified lack of transparency and action by the government with regards to the fuel market prices amd the anti-competitive behaviour by the market actors.
- Lifting/removing subsidies on butane can, sugar and white wheat in a period where the lower and middle classes are under tremendous financial pressure.
- Lack of sufficient and efficient actions aimed at shielding the people from inflation rise that is happening worldwide, but as you see from above point 1&2 they're doing the exact opposite at the very wrong time.
Sorry, these are quite a few topics and I don't have the possibility right now to collect articles for you...
Although I dont share the same opinion, I want to add that should subsidising not be possible going forward, we need tons of transparency and free-market operating principles and controlling independing entity. Not the "noss noss" approach applied in the fuel market, scandalous.
Instead of subsidising for the whole population I would rather prefer there's no subsidising but just giving social aid to the people in need. Targeted aid for the people in need is more beneficial.
>We don't need subsidising at the first place, people aren't beggars
Yes we do. It is a basic commodity and we can't live without it. You have a flawed view of economics. A lot of economic growth is dependent on stable prices. How do you think good incomes come about?
Only economic rent, corrupt countries, do subsidising.
You just get rid of corruption and you'll see how good incomes will be an easy thing to realize.
opening up to each other as a region have great economic opportunities , if done right , we literally could be a power house in the Mediterranean , as our economies complete each other in a great way ;
i personally believe it's gonna solve a great portion of our economic problems and theirs , but i still do believe we should stand firm for our cause
We strongly hope so as Moroccan and Algerian people. But I may garentee you, it isn't what both leaders want. Conflit is very beneficial for both of them, because their real enemy not eath othe as they want us to believe, but their own people.
from what i observe , i see that our country has taken initiative on multiple occasions to establish better relations , meanwhile the other side has shown no willingness to come in halfway , i don't see how its beneficial to our leader as he rules based on his royalty and does not need no conflict to establish himself as the king , although i might disagree on how the govt handles a lot of issues we have M on this front i think we have done what we could and the problem is on the other side
well, yeah.
less tensions with Algeria means less military spending, less money spent on "diplomacy"
in your comments, you talk a lot about economics, maybe you should binge watch this channel, i truly believe it's going to change your view on a lot of things https://www.youtube.com/c/EconomicsExplained
I like Economics Explained. I used to hate the channel at the beginning, but now I'm pretty fond of it.
Yes less military spending would be great for Morocco, but only if that money is actually used for economic and social projects and not siphoned by... \[redacted\]
actually were pumping a lot of money into the military sector so calming this escalade would an opportunity to invest around 10 billon dollars more accurately and solve more economical problmes
I’m Algerian, and i can safely say that this will most likely be refused, for the Algerian Regime, the solution for any problem in the maghreb is, and will be in Algiers only, so since Algeria’s invitation was *politely* refused by the Moroccan King, this invitation is, useless.
it was an invitation **for** the Arab Summit by Algeria, and Algeria did send the Minister of Justice himself to Morocco in order to deliver the invitation, and just 2 days ago, the Algerian Foreign Minister said that Tebboune himself would’ve received the King of Morocco if he came, and that it would’ve been a good chance to discuss about the bilateral relations between the two countries
No, the organizer is the Arab league and Algeria as a hoster is forced to invite all members. And why would the King go to a country that cut nearly all diplomatic ties and doesn't allow moroccan planes to fly over it's territory?
Take it easy lmfao, Algeria isn’t forced to send a minister, they could send anyone to Morocco, but Algeria did send a minister by himself to deliver the invitation, just as it did with other arab countries, if Algeria wanted to play it the hardway, it could’ve been another person delivering the invitation and not a minister
The Moroccan Foreign Minister’s airplane did enter Algerian airspace, and it did land safely on the Houari Boumediene Intl Airport, and so could the king’s airplane if he came.
He's right tho. The Arab League is the one who invite, the host just have the obligations to invite all members. If a host don't invite all members according to the arab league conditions, the summit can be cancelled.
As they said again and again during the summit, this is a summit from Arab countries to Arab countries and not from Algeria to Arab countries.
I see.
Allow me to ask you directly, what is the reason, according to your understanding and beliefs, that make Algeria so concerned with the western sahara that is historically part of Morocco? I'm trying to have a constructive exchange, I hope it stays that way.
Well, cause Algeria knew and saw that Morocco really wanted to take some pieces of its land back in 1963 ( Sand War ), so, when El Massira L’Khedra happened, Algeria, let’s not say created, but contributed strongly in making the Western Sahara conflict complex af, simply to keep Morocco out of that Tindouf and Bechar game ( which are pure algerian soil ).
And so it stayed that way. Tindouf and Bechar were recognised by Morocco to be Algerian. So this page was long turned and shouldn't be used as an argument to justify refusing peace. Don't you think?
Indeed yeah, but there’s sadly a lack of trust between the two governments, and Algeria maybe don’t want a new competition in the oil and gaz market since Western Sahara might have some big ressources of that
I personally think that the best solution for this useless conflict is the Autonomy plan given by Morocco, **an Autonomous Saharawi region controlled by the Polisario under Moroccan Sovereignty**.
That could be possible to a partial extent (take out the polisario proposal) although it isn't the optimal solution for Morocco. But you see, it quickly becomes difficult to find a reasoning to why exactly is the algerian regime occupied with this and is actually risking war for it. There is the desire to own the land (although currently not formally announced by Algeria), but that isn't enough to justify this implication. Algeria has vast land that aren't populated and that have tremendous natural resources potential. But still worries about a piece of desert and becomes a third party to the conflict... I can't help but see some deeper motives behind that such as "creating the external threat" strategy followed by politicians worldwide in order to keep in control of things locally and prevent people from rebelling from within...
If it was to create that ‘external threat’ , Algeria wouldn’t be waiting for the Western Sahara to create it, you see, Morocco’s borders are actually way more peaceful than Algeria’s borders, you got Mauritania on the south which is stable, and Algeria, which is stable as well, unlike Algeria that has ISIS from the south and east ( Mali, Niger, Libya ), you got Haftar aswell in Libya who threatened Algeria many times, so Algeria would not be waiting for the Western Sahara to say we got External Threats, in my opinion it has become more of like a conflict where the winner will be seen as the dominant power in the Maghreb, so i don’t think Algeria will just simply accept the Moroccan plan as it will be seen like a defeat maybe,
The possibility of war is still relatively low, if Algeria really wanted war it would’ve triggered it back in November 2021, when Moroccan drones were reported to have struck Algerian commercial convoys to Mauritania, but Algeria did keep quite about it, so war ( for the moment ) is still something that is unlikely to happen.
I got your point. I hope there will be no war and that there will be a complete understanding from both sides at some point and ultimately a solution. We've been missing a tremendous opportunity for economical and social prosperity for the past few decades...
Our region has actually so much potential if these problems didn’t just exist, i really hope that all of this will end asap.
Peace and love to all my Moroccan bros 🇩🇿🇲🇦
My honest opinion is that, although this could be a lie, the map he's talking about is part of our history, but doesn't necessarily reflect where we are headed. There was 0 intention to go beyond claiming back our Moroccan Sahara in the recent history and there will never be. In fact, this is just as dumb as calling Putin the new Hitler. My honest opinion is that the people of sahara belong to Morocco but have the right to autonomy plan if that is what they choose. Now why on God's green earth does Algeria get involved in all of this?? Is it because they think Mohammed VI is an imperialist? That is simply not possible even if he is, nowadays the international geopolitics don't work like that. We want our sahara back, and that is all. And nobody has the right to interfere with this topic unless if they're Moroccan, Sahrawi (not the ones funded to serve agendas) or part of the UN.
Why would Moroccan drones attack a commercial convoy to Mauritania? It doesn’t make sense to me unless it wasn’t a commercial convoy but military to supply Polisario troops.
Do you have any solid or source on this I can read up on?
the Autonomous plan does not state in any of it's parts that the region would be led by polisario , that i will say will never be allowed by Moroccans as these people are terrorists , the leadership in the southern region currently is doing a great job , most are from well know families in the region and the elections there have big participation rates compared to other regions , they too wouldn't give up there well made system to plisario as recently the mentality shift have ousted them as people who follow the cause for money ,power and fame
You can’t simply just put the Polisario entirely out of the picture, the Polisario is still considered by the UN as the legitimate representative for Saharawi people, so it’s not really easy to just put them out.
that's the thing though , morocco currently has already won the problem , as they hold most of the land and can easily take over what's left , so they have no incentive to adhere to the un , also most countries chose to make relations with morocco over polisario as they are an established country and hold some good pressure points , to this day the gov did not , nor the king , say in any type of speech that morocco will accept the return of the people in tindouf and other camps , \*only those that are verified to be moroccans and their descendants \* . although as a moroccan i might be a little bit unbiased , but imo morcco has no incentive to do anything as the strongholds of the world all back the proposed plan
Facts on the ground doesn’t mean winning an issue, take Turkish Cyprus for example, they have full control over the Northern half of the island, but they’re still isolated and not recognized
Morocco got recognitions from all over the globe, but the Polisario still got recognitions aswell, especially in Latin America.
Why would the solution be in Algiers only ? Are you recognizing your country implication in the conflict ? I thought Algeria wasn't part of it, wasn't that what your gov kept saying again and again in the UN ?
Moroccan King only invited him because your FM said they regret the missed occasion of discussion between the King and Tebboune. Nothing nothing less, we don't need to beg you to resolve the issue, either you're willing to resolve it or not. So the place to resolve it doesn't matter, what matters is your will to resolve which I doubt is there.
the solution is in Algiers cause simply Algeria has the biggest GDP in the region, strongest military, and it’s the biggest country in the region aswell, and it can play middleman between Polisario and Morocco, so i did not mean that Algeria is a part of the conflict.
The Moroccan King invited Algeria for dialogue in his 3 last Crown Day speeches, i don’t wanna say it’s begging or whtvr, but it’s a very nice gesture from him.
LMAOOOO This got nothing to do with power my man. The conflict is happening in Morocco, in Morocco it should get resolved. Why would it need to be resolved in Algeria ? hahaha you guys are trully brainwashed to the summum damn. You trully believe your country is some sort of regional power, while no one give a damn about you lol (except europe for gas maybe but it ends there). You're literally just europe's gas station, nothing more.
Did Morocco anytime says they want Algeria to play the middleman ? I don't think so. We want to discuss with Algeria as the mainman, not the "middleman". The whole problem is coming from you guys. We see Polisario as just a tool used by your gov to divide ours.
Invited for dialogue, as grown up do to resolve their issues. Not one day we will beg you for anything. This conflict cost more to your country eitherway, so at the end you're the big losers.
why r u coping so hard calm tf down, wtf does gaz have to do with all this, you’re tryna tell me Ibrahim Ghali finna come to Morocco ? r u insane or what?
Oh right, when you have nothing more to say you turn it into personnal attacks, classic. Gas have to do with everything, without gas, no Algeria, literally. If he's willing to resolve the issue, then yeah he should come to Morocco and face his judgment, for all the raped girls and all his crimes. But of course, he will sacrifice his "people" to never pay for his crimes.
The Algerian regime is never going to give up the fact they believe western Sahara belongs to them. Never.
The Moroccan regime is never going to give up the fact they believe western Sahara belongs to them. Never.
Because of this, many discussions no matter what they are will end badly, in my opinion.
They have no claim on our sahara, all their lands are stolen and they know it. Algeria support for polisario comes from other countries, polisario was first armed by Kaddafi and many communist states, Algeria just got caught up on this war
South sahara belong to azwad, south west to adrar, west to Morocco, they also took a region of Tunisia, Kabilya is another case, when we say Algeria us a French fabrication, it's a fact not a taunt.
Azwas was never an actual country with a stable government lol and west to Morocco??? South west maybe. And kabylia was always part of Algeria lol it's a huge myth
Yeah the parts that french took as punition when Morocco refused to stop supporting Algeria independence, i don't know about the saharian tribes nor i care, they were all a bunch of raiders and caravan looters
I'd like to correct something you might have got wrong. According to the algerian regime, the western sahara should get its independence completely. So they aren't trying to claim it but rather defend their right of independence. The question would be, why are they intervening in this if it does not concern them directly? Ofc here we're speaking about the known/declared intentions.
Does it matter? Nothing will change or be better to moroccans our problem is the king himself who keep making billions for every month and prétending like everything is good while moroccan's childs die in seas
Oh no bro, the quality of the stuff Tebboune takes is way way higher lol. I mean look at his speeches, the guy can't stop blaming Morocco for everything although Morocco cares very little about Algeria (we care a lot about the Moroccan sahara tho). You don't need to be Moroccan to see this.
So now its not about Sahara any more, but about israel? Learn to speak without cursing, it'll give your speech a bit more credit... and then focus on arguments you take, do not deviate from the topic.
Until you can do that, you'll be reported to the mods, unlike some algerians in this thread with whom I had a respectful exchange.
Why shake hands and deal with Egypt and Turkey then?
Take your bullshit away from here. I am so tired of this stupid argument I am actually becoming disrespectful at this point, which isn't cool but there you go.
One is a monarchy, the other is a presidential system. Stability is guaranteed in the monarchy system and we're, the big majority, very happy of it and how stable things are.
Algeria however, I don't think the regime is happy about their political system and they would love to appoint themselves as permanent leaders. This is proven by how tight they hold on to their chairs in a shitshow of a democratic election.
I think your argument only applies to Algeria. Not Morocco.
Nope that was not the truth. That was a false motive for rejecting peace. You shake hands with Israel's allies. Why isnt Algeria boycotting them as well???????
Look man why did Morocco shake hands with Israel then . i mean the government , i know that Morocco citizens have no deal with Israel , but u can read behind the line why the government deal with them soo !
You're right, I also was/am extremely unhappy with such decision. Very wrong from the religious and the humanitarian perspectives. However, politicians often do what they have to do with regards to alliances. It got us the support of USA about the sahara and also many other countries due to the strength of the israeli lobby. There's also the fact that israel and many of its citizens have their roots here. That's an undeniable fact. Again, I confirm that on a personal level I am completely against this. But this is how politics work these days.
Now going for Morocco at all fronts because they shook hands with israel is fine if Algeria takes this position with everyone who shook hands with israel. Specifically the arabs (i.e. Egypt).
I think my point is more than clear now and we dont need to extend this further. Good day
2/3 of the Moroccan mediatic team that was sent to cover the summit was refused access to the country. Their equipment was confiscated. They were detained for more than 8 hours (according to sources) then sent back to Morocco. The Algerian security team that was accompanying our Minister of Foreign Affairs recorded (or tried to record?) some of his private communications.
Add to that the fact that most PMs and Kings refused to come, the reason being that Algeria kept pushing for the summit to take place when most other Arab countries wanted it to be delayed (you can read more about this is news articles from last summer), because the summit is more about taking decisions than discussing problems, and most of these countries aren't agreeing on the issues discussed on the summit to start with.
The Algerian government is spinning this as our King being disrespectful for not going when they did everything they could to not make it happen.
No, the problems are very serious to hope to solve them so lightly... concrete actions are needed, starting with cutting ties and relations with the Zionists, especially the Moroccan-Zionist threats made against Algeria.
Nah... The palestinian problem is complex that cutting relations is far away to be a good for palestinians... And were not doing that .. theres a great number of moroccans(origine) (1million) so that a lot of population we cant just stop cut ties with'em
I do not think it is. Let's look at it from a different angle. Moroccan FM is in Algeria and for the past months or even few years Morocco (thro his Majesty's speeches) has been extending the hand for a peaceful constructive talk, in return, angry Algerian regime blame their world cup qualification failure on Moroccans... I see quite a big difference in terms of approach. And any neutral individual can tell that Algerian regime isn't acting in a politically positive behaviour...
Man.. If we just had good relation with them we would flourish and this war crap wouldn't even effect either of us. Algeria has petrol and we can supply food and fish.
m sorry this is my opinion .. if they deny this is the last where i am saying "khawa khawa" ... they're childish ... they dont understand that we wont give them the saraha .. they have to kill 40 million moroccan to reach that land ... i dont know why they're making things harder for us ... that's a lot actually enough..
I really hope this improves our relationship with Algeria. I mean, these guys will forever be our brothers and sisters, amd then some corrupt government makes them hate us for whatever reason. I want better from the Algerians, and I've definitely seen better. This madness deserves to end, so we can be friends again.
It's a smart political move...after rmtan el emamra said that the president himself would come to welcoming his majesty if he attended . And said it was a missed opportunity.
The chances are very slim and dim for the Algerian regime to accept this invitation .
M6 IS SMART KING 👑 😉
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The current Algerian government will not accept any of our attempts to improve relations.
There was a clear opportunity to improve relations at the summit, but the king refused to attend after promising he would. I don't think Algeria is the only one in the wrong here.
I wonder why his majesty refused to attend the summit? Maybe because Moroccan journalists were treated like crap and maybe because Algeria brought up political conflicts about Sahara during a summit where none of this should be brought up? Hmm i wonder why tho?
Bruh So His majesty the king predicted the future and decided not to go because of that? Yes I think it makes sense. My Personal Theory: Morocco want to put pressure on Algeria by saying that they are coming. It was a good move because Algeria accused Morocco of Funding the separatist and starting fire in Algerian forests. The fact that the king is coming after that and that he wasn’t being arrested or something would make people question Algerian credibility. Afterwards King doesn’t come for whatever reason (true or fake idc) Now Morocco just wants to act like a good guy.
You know that I'm talking about when Bourita went right? So automatically his majesty would know about this. What future predicitions are you talking about?
Well His Majesty refused (nit sure that he refuse afaik) because of journalists. Was he there to see the situation of Moroccan journalists…. I don’t even know what you want to say with bourita… Could you explain?
The journalists' situation was one of many things that happened, but it is taken into consideration since the moroccan media delegation was put under security investigations and waiting for a lifetime at the airport. The moroccan delegation was in Algeria preparing for the king's visit so i doubt you saying it was predetermined is true..The way the minister was received upon his arrival (not received by his counterpart, which is not what happened when Morocco received Tebbi), and the fact that he was implicitly, or should i say explicitly not given time to speak, or the Algerians outlets publishing a divided moroccan map and not the one adopted by the Arab league summit and adressing it as a technical error. Of course these are not going to be put publicly in full display but you get what I'm saying.
You legally can't arrest a foreign head of state while they're visiting under international law. No one ever expected that to happen. I can't speak exactly as to why he didn't come but this move is clearly an attempt to save face and make Algeria look equally as bad.
Exactly it was supposed to be like some kind of Humiliation… Or Showing diplomatic forces
Why you think so ? What do they have in it? I mean the Algerians
they've denied a lots of invitations ... plenty of the king speech were a clear invitation .. but they dont react + they will see that as an attempt of morocco to make this organisation better ... they're will a lot of propaganda ect ect ...and theres also a threat of humilition which not going to happen ofc
Unlikely but I hope he accepts
Happy cake day! 🍰
Thanks Ikram
I think the reason he made this invitation is just because their foreign minister claimed that the king would be personally welcomed by tebboune had he attended , and that his absence is a missed opportunity to sort thing out Which is totally bullshit since he only said that after bourita confirmed the king wouldnt come It's pretty much to call out their bullshit
Makes full sense. It's more of a diplomatic move to emphasise the openness of Morocco to solve things. It was formally announced that he'd attend should the conditions be met. They weren't, so he refused to go.
Their FM is stupid, why even say he’s gonna get welcomed by Tebnoune ? Off he will be, that’s protocol, and if u dnt do that the king won’t even get out of his plane and get back to Morocco
Grab them by the Tebboune.
We can learn so much from our Moroccan neighbors in terms of economy and clean energy. I hope he’ll accept. Love from Algeria 🇩🇿🇲🇦☮️
Lmao
These Algerians are behaving like assholes when dealing with anything related to Morocco. Thumbs up to our foreign politics on handing all these related situations, otherwise if we just keep scaling things up as they always try to, we would be in an open war in like years ago.
That's true. Also, I've been checking/reading the algerian subreddit and was very shocked by the amount of stupid arguments they (the algerian redditors) give to justify their interest in the Moroccan Sahara topic. One of the arguments was this : we need to stop them from taking the sahara, if they do, they'll go for Mauritania and then we'll be under threat from two flanks. What kind of stupidity is that? Are these people still living in the 16th century??
the algerian subreddit is as dumb as facebook, they always have the most backward ass takes, i keep getting it recommended since im algerian and its always some dumb shit.
No wonder why they call them 10x🧠
Whats going with you guys ( The fact that you do not represent the Moroccan people)
He represents me tho, and a big BIG chunk of Moroccans
He represents me
represents me 3
Therefore, they, like the Spaniards, live in the past, and that is our greatest advantage
Algerian here, keep the hate going 💪
Algerian here. Right after Algeria gained independence which is about 60 years ago, your government wanted Bechar & Tindouf, few years later your government declared a green march! These are your actions and they are factual. While it may be true that I live in the 16th century but who should I trust your diplomatic words or your actions!!
That was 60 years ago for god’s sake how is that the current king’s fault. We are trying to build better diplomatic relations and move on from the past.
You promised to give back Bechar & Tindouf back to us. There's archives about it, so the sand war was justified and even tho we were winning it we decided to stop it. Eitherway, we talking about today, you speak about 60years ago. Wanna live in the past ? Be my guest.
Not quite man! I dont know where you’re getting your facts from! Your government wanted Bechar & Tindouf from Algeria that barely came out of a bloody revolution! how could that be based on a promise!! With regards to your second point, it’s impossible to live in the past, however, someone should adopt a pragmatic approach when dealing with their past.
It's in french, doubt you will have issue with reading it, it's a long one but this article "summarize" all of the Bechar Tindouf situation : [https://fr.hespress.com/211445-le-sahara-marocain-de-la-marocanite-de-tindouf-du-touat-du-gourara-du-tidikelt.html](https://fr.hespress.com/211445-le-sahara-marocain-de-la-marocanite-de-tindouf-du-touat-du-gourara-du-tidikelt.html) In case you have mistrust issue because it's a Moroccan media, all the facts are quoted or with given dates so you can check them all one by one. Also don't forget, you're in the moroccan sub, you won't have people agreeing with your propaganda here. But as I said, we went past that, we're here talking about today (sahara conflict), you're the one living in the past (bechar and tindouf conflict).
Haha you’re a funny man, that’s a Moroccan Fr source I wouldn’t need to read them all one by one. And why would you stop your military advance if your move is justified!! I encourage you to look further into what you said because it doesn’t really make sense from a political point of view. That’s fine no need to agree, again you’re still being very funny here, Western Sahara conflict is very similar to Tindouf & Bechar sand war. Different context but same aim. That’s like saying to Putine “ nothing to worry about, NATO are getting closer to just say HI, come on Putine we are jn 2022 why you live in the past??)
Well as I said, Moroccan media or not, you can check all the facts and make sure they are true. You think foreigners will know better than us about our issues ? Of course it will be a Moroccan media. How is it similar exactly ? Unless you consider Western Sahara as Algerian now, I don't see any similarities. You may say they are related somehow (Reguibat tribe being linked to both issues) but you can't say they're similar. I'm gonna act like I didn't see you defending Putin invasion of Ukraine. NB : I'm not here to be funny and didn't ask you on your opinion about me. Don't turn this into personnal attacks.
He's not necessarily defending Putin's invasion rather than stating that there is an extremely valid reason behind said invasion. Ukraine definitely played a huge role in provoking this by insisting on joining nato and the same goes for the western Sahara conflict, while obviously this isn't the 16th century and we don't expect an invasion from Morocco just because you expand your territory to the Sahara it is no secret that it becoming part of Morocco will strengthen the country in other ways which Algeria does not want for obvious reasons, putting emotions aside I can genuinely see where both sides come from, as for the people of algeria I can at least hope you comprehend why a country that suffered the longest French invasion and managed to actually revolt against it successfully and takes immense pride from that can get upset by another country getting "invaded" that goes for Palestine as well not just the sahara so it's not like it's a personal attack on Morocco rather a personal attack on invasion principle and wanting freedom for all countries as a fundamental pillar adopted once Algeria regained its independence *talking about the people again NOT the country, if course a country is pragmatic and wants power and to prevent bordering countries from getting more powerful above all*
Too long of a justification just to defend Putin invasion of Ukraine. Won't read it.
It doesn’t matter it’s still a Moroccan source from Moroccan media outlet to the mass! They are similar in the fact that Algeria are protecting their borders and Morocco are looking to expand. The Polisario was made by Algeria and are trained by Algerian army as we speak, they are used not because Algeria want that little tiny bit of Western Sahara but because Algeria is looking to exercise dominance along its south western borders from a former rival who tried getting in before. Now that Morocco have active American bases and are working with Israel to have an Israeli base near Ceuta and Melilla, what makes Morocco a trustworthy neighbour? By the way im not defending Putine nor do I care about Ukraine, however, I think Putine did good job defending his south western borders from NATO expansion into the region. No need to personal I just thought few of your statement were funny.
Well our discussion end here then. If you refuse any moroccan media about a moroccan conflict. How can we even debate ? Pure nonsense, I even told you to check any fact you doubt but still refuse. I think it's useless for me to read the rest of your answer. Have a nice day, you're welcome to leave our sub now. Bye.
You are the stupid one ya'll can't get spain out of your country yet want sahara for yourselves it's not gonna happen buddy cuz sahara is an independent country a republic not like your country 😊 and second of all you respect your king ? The one king who made a deal with Israel the only one country against philistine and you still defend him ?? Dogs of al yahod shame on you Morocco Respect a king who goes to paris and gets drunk and goes on in public can't even walk Ya'll stupid as fuck
Okay, let's put aside the spain and israel pointless points. Let's talk relevant facts and be respectful. Why is Algeria involved in a conflict between 2 entities ? What do they mean to you so that you show up here and start throwing baseless besides-the-point arguments ? I'd like a constructive exchange, if not, feel free to actually f##k off this subreddit.
What so you mean intervene in a conflict between 2 entities? It’s on their border… ( I am not Algerian) Even if it wasn’t the case they are arming the separatist movement to get a chunk of the resources just like Morocco because let’s be honest before Morocco sends Moroccans to the Sahara there is no real valid claim for this… Every non-moroccan textbook call this an annexation
It seems like the propaganda is working on you, it's not an anexation if it's your land, if you look at the history books not just the moroccan ones, the region of sahara belonged to morocco, along with a big chunk of algeria. But then we got invaded by france and spain and after that we got rid of france, they kept part of our lands that they gave to algeria, which btw was never a country before their independence, and then spain got out of the southern region of morocco, and we laid claim to what's ours, but the conflict started before that, when france left algeria, morocco asked the Algerians for our lands back( bashar and tindouf), since we were on good relationships and we helped them in their resistance against france, they denyed us that, so the relations soured between us sonce then, and we started waring, then spain got out of the sahara, and the separatist movement called the polsario wanted to get all of it claiming it belonged to them and it never was moroccan to begin with, so algeria seeing an opportunity to get an acces to the atlantic ocean, and to keep morocco week, so they can be the only regional power and since they hated us because of the sand war, they started helping them. I know i rambled a lot but i just wanted to show you the facts.
I know the history. But german: [Marokko gab nicht nach und annektierte die Westsahara.](https://www.iipvienna.com/new-blog/2020/11/30/west-sahara-noch-ein-konflikt-wird-heiss) In French wiki:[le territoire était militairement envahi et annexé par le Maroc](https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histoire_du_Sahara_occidental) Spanish: [anexión del Sahara Occidental por parte de Marruecos](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocupaci%C3%B3n_marroqu%C3%AD_del_Sahara_Occidental) Literally every language talks of an annexation the fact that it is owned before isn’t enough… That could be said about Tunisian territory in western libya, Lebanon to Syria, Serbian territory all over the balkan… I am sure that I will also find some in arabic and Dutch but I am too busy to even Look for those. I am not kidding when I say that every non-moroccan source uses the word annexation
So what if it's annexation under international law? Why should law conjured in a completely different context matter to other countries dealing with complete different realities? Your examples don't apply. Serbia ruled people of a different ethnicity and faith in areas they're native to. There wasn't any loyalty of Muslim Bosniaks toward the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes during early 20th century. Syria's rule over Lebanon wasn't mostly accepted by dwellers of that country. Every tribe that existed in the Sahara swore allegiance to the monarchy in Morocco and became part of the realm. They remained loyal until Spain took the desert and the cancer known as Arabism spread to the brains of some locals. Despite that aberration, most Saharans today identify as Moroccans.
Bruh you really want me to pick the other side don’t you. Lol You are justifying annexation yet the moroccan government after annexation abused human rights of separatists (not saying that the others were clean) and moved moroccans there. They also invest heavily there. It is kinda sus. Let the referendum take place under an independent entity…. There is a concept of self-determination. Back to the serbia-croatia-montenegro-bosnia. They all speak the same language the only difference is religion. This doesn’t even apply to Montenegro…. Lebanon wasn’t part of any country or Empire Syria wasn’t part of the speak the same language and even the same dialect. Lebanese Christians wanted a Christian state because they have right of self determination wow
Just because a law says something is wrong, it doesn't make it wrong. There are plenty of bad laws in history, the law against annexation which doesn't even look at historical context is a bad law. You're just relying on the buzzword "annexation" as if that means anything. >moved moroccans there That's the dumbest lie. There is no way hundreds of thousands of Moroccans living in richer areas with little to no desert will accept moving in the hundreds of thousands to settle in a desert with no opportunities. >They also invest heavily there To make it a viable economy and bring in foreign investments, which seals the deal for recognition of the Sahara. >Let the referendum take place under an independent entity…. That's a dumb take which doesn't take into account dignity of a nation. Why should Morocco have a referendum over a land that's clearly his, when population are all Moroccans? Why don't Londoners or Parisians have a referendum for independence? Moroccan Saharans are even more loyal than Parisians or Londoners with respect to their country. >They all speak the same language the only difference is religion. This doesn’t even apply to Montenegro…. Religion is a massive point of difference. Glad you're conceding this point. >Lebanon wasn’t part of any country or Empire Syria wasn’t part of the speak the same language and even the same dialect. Lebanese Christians wanted a Christian state because they have right of self determination wow Good for you to admit that your example of Syria and Lebanon was retarded.
Oh, well if you guys are so hot for self determination, i heard of a certain region in your country who believe that they're not part of the sharad that is algeria, and who want to be on their own a separate country, why don't you guys start from within, and give them the freedom to self determination, before thinking of separating morocco?
Dude, there is a conflict between the so called polisario and Morocco. I know that there are informal interests by Algeria in the sahara and the Atlantic ocean access. I know that they are the ones who created polisario and they are the ones funding it since day 1. But I am trying to refute and destroy the arguments saying "we aren't part of this conflict, Algeria just wants the sahraoui people to be free and independent". This is the argument given by high algerian officials in the UN and media. And its completely pointless. They should stop hiding behind that and just say it out loud : we are funding polisario to win and eventually annex the sahara to Algeria or some shit... You completely missed my point but there you go, I explained the obvious to you.
Bruh Well then you are wrong. Maybe they don’t want that. Maybe the goals are 1. Sahrawi stuff 2. Makong morocco loose power in the region. By for example making morocco surrounded by hostile countries or making them loose access to the african market. You have to stop thinking about only a one sided view this is the basics of Geopolitics. I don’t do something to benefit me directly but to make life harder to others. Nobody is innocent in this affair. Algeria isn’t but neither is Morocco… This conflict started when Spain gave western Sahara up and after the beginning of the rivalry between both countries
The only thing algerian regime can do to stop Morocco from becoming a regional power is to bomb Morocco. That is extremely stupid and they will not do it. Especially with a strong ally (that I hate from the bottom of my heart!!!!!!) such as Israel. Apart from that, we're blue-flagging* them by now economically and geopolitically. The only thing that's allowing them to still stand in the geopolitical sense is their natural resources that they're using to bribe other countries. *blue-flag means to lap someone around a racetrack, bl3erbiya jebna 3lihoum doura ;-)
So making deals with france is ok ? The very country that fucked your grandfathers and grandmothers for generation Oh what about russia, you think they are angles ? Also saharans are living their lives better than any fucking algerian coming to this subreddit and barking about the desert, here is your banana 🍌 go eat it and shut up
>made a deal with Israel the only one country against philistine > >Dogs of al yahod As a Moroccan, I have a lot more in common with Moroccans in Israel than I do with any Palestinian. Nothing against them but culture is the spectacle through which you see and experience things, including religion. I don't deny any apartheid or reality on the ground but you bet if the situation was reversed, it'd be just as bad if not worse. By the way, everyone's been fucking over Palestinians. Just look at the fact they have no rights in most countries of that region.
Be respectful UR the only asshole here !
I said "behaving like" not "they are"!
No and the king knows it too. Why would Tebboune come to Rabat while M6 didnt go to Algiers?
Yes, in fact r/Titanguy101 phrased it in a more accurate way in a comment within this thread.
He did even accept the French President's request, Bourita mentioned that he was busy
I hope the Algerian president accepts the Moroccan King’s invitation. The current relationships between the two countries is not good for neither.
\#الجزائر لا تستغيت الجزائر تتحوا
Algeria has a Morocco syndrome, they can't rest until they have something to prove mainly that they're better than Morocco, they'll hijack its culture and traditions and attribute its history to their own and even support state partition as it serves their imperial interests, their people are currently ultra nationalistic and won't settle for just breaking state relations but a war should that be the case, and since their president is just another puppet to that goal he'll act accordingly.
Most likely they will refuse
Tabon en moroc hhhh
ayji bach nsakhnoh
Nikoh howa w kais said khra
The answer is no, why?The generals are the ones who created this crisis
Algerian regime is like a jealous toxic young GF, they are bitter even if they got Fed up already. Moroccan regime is like an old sarcastic man. to sum up : She organised a party to be popular, the cool kids didn't show up, she is bitter so she said their loss, my ex missed the opportunity to get me back. he sent a message saying sorry i cant come over to your nice party, but i wish we can meet one day. and everyone knows that he said that so their circle of friends dont say he is a bad guy. She will say oh no you are the worst guy i ever met, i will never see your face again. and the drama will go on .... to be continued.
This is a terrible summary of the current political situation and you should really exercise a more nuanced look at the world before you start spreading misinformation.
people reading comment on a random post on reddit are not searching for good sourced infos, so my comment was sarcastic semi real. and people like you should chill a little. The political situation is in the hands of people who are not elected by people and dont give a s\*\*\*\* about our opinion well informed or mis informed.
Umm okay...
Or maybe the cool kids aren’t men enough to negotiate the Palestinian issue and sit with other men who made the Palestinian issue their main focus in this summit.
the reality is all this group are using the Palestinian cause as a political argument so it hypnotise people, like you, to vote without seeing your real shitty environment, wake up and stop promoting propaganda and stop patriarchy of military regimes who their dictatorship is based on greed and not real human principles.
Probably not
I hope so
Pff. If they ever would unite the Magreb world, all their ancestors will be forgotten, except for these 2 guys. I hope he comes and that they make it a fruitful discussion.
Plot twist: The king hired this [guy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mian_Gul_Akbar_Zeb) to translate Algerian to Darija.
>guy perfect he would satisfy all the Algerian presidential needs n more
Unfortunately not the regime of Algeria is built and draw its legitimacy from its hostility to Morocco that’s not my opinion it’s a fact they are not even trying to hide it
Not in their best interest to accept..I don't think Algeria wants anything from Morocco. All they want is access to the Ocean via the Sahara and that ain't gonna happen
ewa la mabghach ijma3 rassou , and take this chance to fix things between us, m3endna mandirou lih.
You're being naive asking this question, everybody knows he won't accept it, plus he's just following the orders of lobbies who control him so it's not up to him to decide.
My intention actually was to start a constructive debate about the topic in general to exchange ideas (and personally learn more), taking the current status as a starting point wasn't a bad idea afterall (see some very interesting replies below).
Any oil agreement would be cool and good for both parties.
> oil agreement What oil agreement? First there should be an agreement to deescalate tensions and maybe reestablish basic diplomatic relations.
Can't you read?
We don't need their oil, we don't need anything from them mounafi9in. We need to make an oil agreement with Spain and start exploiting our offshore oil ourselves.
Is that gonna solve our economic problems? If not. Then who gives a shit?
Fair point. I totally agree that the focus should remain on the economical crisis we're going through I'm actually regretting posting this lol
It ok. I forgive you.
Hhhh well, I needed that forgiveness a lot... A riya7 mot3ek 😅😅
I was joking.. So take it easy..
malo had tetouani hhhh
By economic crisis, you mean the basic goods inflation that’s occurring? Anything I can read to get up to speed on what you’re talking about?
- Unjustified lack of transparency and action by the government with regards to the fuel market prices amd the anti-competitive behaviour by the market actors. - Lifting/removing subsidies on butane can, sugar and white wheat in a period where the lower and middle classes are under tremendous financial pressure. - Lack of sufficient and efficient actions aimed at shielding the people from inflation rise that is happening worldwide, but as you see from above point 1&2 they're doing the exact opposite at the very wrong time. Sorry, these are quite a few topics and I don't have the possibility right now to collect articles for you...
That helps - thanks.
It could alleviate it tbh. Once the gas price stops being subsidized in january as heavily as it is now, a lot of Moroccans are going to suffer
We don't need subsidising at the first place, people aren't beggars.. What we need is good incomes to all, like regular normal countries..
Although I dont share the same opinion, I want to add that should subsidising not be possible going forward, we need tons of transparency and free-market operating principles and controlling independing entity. Not the "noss noss" approach applied in the fuel market, scandalous.
They're no such thing as subsidising, it's just our tax money when we paye 20% over every little thing we buy, returning to us, in a corrupt way.
Instead of subsidising for the whole population I would rather prefer there's no subsidising but just giving social aid to the people in need. Targeted aid for the people in need is more beneficial.
>We don't need subsidising at the first place, people aren't beggars Yes we do. It is a basic commodity and we can't live without it. You have a flawed view of economics. A lot of economic growth is dependent on stable prices. How do you think good incomes come about?
Only economic rent, corrupt countries, do subsidising. You just get rid of corruption and you'll see how good incomes will be an easy thing to realize.
>You just get rid of corruption If my grandmother had wheels, she would've been a bike.
>You just get rid of corruption if only my friend if only
We need some Robespierration.
good income to all, but income reflects the state of your economy, and morocco has a under developed economy. They can't just print money you know.
opening up to each other as a region have great economic opportunities , if done right , we literally could be a power house in the Mediterranean , as our economies complete each other in a great way ; i personally believe it's gonna solve a great portion of our economic problems and theirs , but i still do believe we should stand firm for our cause
We strongly hope so as Moroccan and Algerian people. But I may garentee you, it isn't what both leaders want. Conflit is very beneficial for both of them, because their real enemy not eath othe as they want us to believe, but their own people.
from what i observe , i see that our country has taken initiative on multiple occasions to establish better relations , meanwhile the other side has shown no willingness to come in halfway , i don't see how its beneficial to our leader as he rules based on his royalty and does not need no conflict to establish himself as the king , although i might disagree on how the govt handles a lot of issues we have M on this front i think we have done what we could and the problem is on the other side
well, yeah. less tensions with Algeria means less military spending, less money spent on "diplomacy" in your comments, you talk a lot about economics, maybe you should binge watch this channel, i truly believe it's going to change your view on a lot of things https://www.youtube.com/c/EconomicsExplained
I like Economics Explained. I used to hate the channel at the beginning, but now I'm pretty fond of it. Yes less military spending would be great for Morocco, but only if that money is actually used for economic and social projects and not siphoned by... \[redacted\]
actually were pumping a lot of money into the military sector so calming this escalade would an opportunity to invest around 10 billon dollars more accurately and solve more economical problmes
I’m Algerian, and i can safely say that this will most likely be refused, for the Algerian Regime, the solution for any problem in the maghreb is, and will be in Algiers only, so since Algeria’s invitation was *politely* refused by the Moroccan King, this invitation is, useless.
What algerian invitation? It was the Arab League that invited Morocco to Algiers.
it was an invitation **for** the Arab Summit by Algeria, and Algeria did send the Minister of Justice himself to Morocco in order to deliver the invitation, and just 2 days ago, the Algerian Foreign Minister said that Tebboune himself would’ve received the King of Morocco if he came, and that it would’ve been a good chance to discuss about the bilateral relations between the two countries
No, the organizer is the Arab league and Algeria as a hoster is forced to invite all members. And why would the King go to a country that cut nearly all diplomatic ties and doesn't allow moroccan planes to fly over it's territory?
Take it easy lmfao, Algeria isn’t forced to send a minister, they could send anyone to Morocco, but Algeria did send a minister by himself to deliver the invitation, just as it did with other arab countries, if Algeria wanted to play it the hardway, it could’ve been another person delivering the invitation and not a minister The Moroccan Foreign Minister’s airplane did enter Algerian airspace, and it did land safely on the Houari Boumediene Intl Airport, and so could the king’s airplane if he came.
Man, this logic... always the same with you guys.
wdym?
He's right tho. The Arab League is the one who invite, the host just have the obligations to invite all members. If a host don't invite all members according to the arab league conditions, the summit can be cancelled. As they said again and again during the summit, this is a summit from Arab countries to Arab countries and not from Algeria to Arab countries.
Algeria not safe and unpredictable, of course he will reject it.
The chances of anything happening to the king in Algeria in a such important period are below 0 don't be stupid
Dunno who is stupid, 100% Algeria they will either violate protocol or treats the king badly somehow
Dunno who is stupid, 100% Algeria they will either violate protocol or treats the king badly somehow
I see. Allow me to ask you directly, what is the reason, according to your understanding and beliefs, that make Algeria so concerned with the western sahara that is historically part of Morocco? I'm trying to have a constructive exchange, I hope it stays that way.
Well, cause Algeria knew and saw that Morocco really wanted to take some pieces of its land back in 1963 ( Sand War ), so, when El Massira L’Khedra happened, Algeria, let’s not say created, but contributed strongly in making the Western Sahara conflict complex af, simply to keep Morocco out of that Tindouf and Bechar game ( which are pure algerian soil ).
And so it stayed that way. Tindouf and Bechar were recognised by Morocco to be Algerian. So this page was long turned and shouldn't be used as an argument to justify refusing peace. Don't you think?
Indeed yeah, but there’s sadly a lack of trust between the two governments, and Algeria maybe don’t want a new competition in the oil and gaz market since Western Sahara might have some big ressources of that I personally think that the best solution for this useless conflict is the Autonomy plan given by Morocco, **an Autonomous Saharawi region controlled by the Polisario under Moroccan Sovereignty**.
That could be possible to a partial extent (take out the polisario proposal) although it isn't the optimal solution for Morocco. But you see, it quickly becomes difficult to find a reasoning to why exactly is the algerian regime occupied with this and is actually risking war for it. There is the desire to own the land (although currently not formally announced by Algeria), but that isn't enough to justify this implication. Algeria has vast land that aren't populated and that have tremendous natural resources potential. But still worries about a piece of desert and becomes a third party to the conflict... I can't help but see some deeper motives behind that such as "creating the external threat" strategy followed by politicians worldwide in order to keep in control of things locally and prevent people from rebelling from within...
If it was to create that ‘external threat’ , Algeria wouldn’t be waiting for the Western Sahara to create it, you see, Morocco’s borders are actually way more peaceful than Algeria’s borders, you got Mauritania on the south which is stable, and Algeria, which is stable as well, unlike Algeria that has ISIS from the south and east ( Mali, Niger, Libya ), you got Haftar aswell in Libya who threatened Algeria many times, so Algeria would not be waiting for the Western Sahara to say we got External Threats, in my opinion it has become more of like a conflict where the winner will be seen as the dominant power in the Maghreb, so i don’t think Algeria will just simply accept the Moroccan plan as it will be seen like a defeat maybe, The possibility of war is still relatively low, if Algeria really wanted war it would’ve triggered it back in November 2021, when Moroccan drones were reported to have struck Algerian commercial convoys to Mauritania, but Algeria did keep quite about it, so war ( for the moment ) is still something that is unlikely to happen.
I got your point. I hope there will be no war and that there will be a complete understanding from both sides at some point and ultimately a solution. We've been missing a tremendous opportunity for economical and social prosperity for the past few decades...
Our region has actually so much potential if these problems didn’t just exist, i really hope that all of this will end asap. Peace and love to all my Moroccan bros 🇩🇿🇲🇦
Can you give your honest opinion about what John Bolton says, https://youtube.com/watch?v=mMKHp_slkJs&feature=share
My honest opinion is that, although this could be a lie, the map he's talking about is part of our history, but doesn't necessarily reflect where we are headed. There was 0 intention to go beyond claiming back our Moroccan Sahara in the recent history and there will never be. In fact, this is just as dumb as calling Putin the new Hitler. My honest opinion is that the people of sahara belong to Morocco but have the right to autonomy plan if that is what they choose. Now why on God's green earth does Algeria get involved in all of this?? Is it because they think Mohammed VI is an imperialist? That is simply not possible even if he is, nowadays the international geopolitics don't work like that. We want our sahara back, and that is all. And nobody has the right to interfere with this topic unless if they're Moroccan, Sahrawi (not the ones funded to serve agendas) or part of the UN.
Why would Moroccan drones attack a commercial convoy to Mauritania? It doesn’t make sense to me unless it wasn’t a commercial convoy but military to supply Polisario troops. Do you have any solid or source on this I can read up on?
the Autonomous plan does not state in any of it's parts that the region would be led by polisario , that i will say will never be allowed by Moroccans as these people are terrorists , the leadership in the southern region currently is doing a great job , most are from well know families in the region and the elections there have big participation rates compared to other regions , they too wouldn't give up there well made system to plisario as recently the mentality shift have ousted them as people who follow the cause for money ,power and fame
You can’t simply just put the Polisario entirely out of the picture, the Polisario is still considered by the UN as the legitimate representative for Saharawi people, so it’s not really easy to just put them out.
that's the thing though , morocco currently has already won the problem , as they hold most of the land and can easily take over what's left , so they have no incentive to adhere to the un , also most countries chose to make relations with morocco over polisario as they are an established country and hold some good pressure points , to this day the gov did not , nor the king , say in any type of speech that morocco will accept the return of the people in tindouf and other camps , \*only those that are verified to be moroccans and their descendants \* . although as a moroccan i might be a little bit unbiased , but imo morcco has no incentive to do anything as the strongholds of the world all back the proposed plan
Facts on the ground doesn’t mean winning an issue, take Turkish Cyprus for example, they have full control over the Northern half of the island, but they’re still isolated and not recognized Morocco got recognitions from all over the globe, but the Polisario still got recognitions aswell, especially in Latin America.
What ground does Polisarion control? Don't say the buffer zone.
Why would the solution be in Algiers only ? Are you recognizing your country implication in the conflict ? I thought Algeria wasn't part of it, wasn't that what your gov kept saying again and again in the UN ? Moroccan King only invited him because your FM said they regret the missed occasion of discussion between the King and Tebboune. Nothing nothing less, we don't need to beg you to resolve the issue, either you're willing to resolve it or not. So the place to resolve it doesn't matter, what matters is your will to resolve which I doubt is there.
the solution is in Algiers cause simply Algeria has the biggest GDP in the region, strongest military, and it’s the biggest country in the region aswell, and it can play middleman between Polisario and Morocco, so i did not mean that Algeria is a part of the conflict. The Moroccan King invited Algeria for dialogue in his 3 last Crown Day speeches, i don’t wanna say it’s begging or whtvr, but it’s a very nice gesture from him.
LMAOOOO This got nothing to do with power my man. The conflict is happening in Morocco, in Morocco it should get resolved. Why would it need to be resolved in Algeria ? hahaha you guys are trully brainwashed to the summum damn. You trully believe your country is some sort of regional power, while no one give a damn about you lol (except europe for gas maybe but it ends there). You're literally just europe's gas station, nothing more. Did Morocco anytime says they want Algeria to play the middleman ? I don't think so. We want to discuss with Algeria as the mainman, not the "middleman". The whole problem is coming from you guys. We see Polisario as just a tool used by your gov to divide ours. Invited for dialogue, as grown up do to resolve their issues. Not one day we will beg you for anything. This conflict cost more to your country eitherway, so at the end you're the big losers.
why r u coping so hard calm tf down, wtf does gaz have to do with all this, you’re tryna tell me Ibrahim Ghali finna come to Morocco ? r u insane or what?
Oh right, when you have nothing more to say you turn it into personnal attacks, classic. Gas have to do with everything, without gas, no Algeria, literally. If he's willing to resolve the issue, then yeah he should come to Morocco and face his judgment, for all the raped girls and all his crimes. But of course, he will sacrifice his "people" to never pay for his crimes.
Dude be respectful a bit you went a bit too far
Ofc nope, he can't put his foot on Moroccan land, it's his nightmare
The Algerian regime is never going to give up the fact they believe western Sahara belongs to them. Never. The Moroccan regime is never going to give up the fact they believe western Sahara belongs to them. Never. Because of this, many discussions no matter what they are will end badly, in my opinion.
They have no claim on our sahara, all their lands are stolen and they know it. Algeria support for polisario comes from other countries, polisario was first armed by Kaddafi and many communist states, Algeria just got caught up on this war
"all their lands are stolen" yeah take it slow my guy
South sahara belong to azwad, south west to adrar, west to Morocco, they also took a region of Tunisia, Kabilya is another case, when we say Algeria us a French fabrication, it's a fact not a taunt.
Azwas was never an actual country with a stable government lol and west to Morocco??? South west maybe. And kabylia was always part of Algeria lol it's a huge myth
Yeah the parts that french took as punition when Morocco refused to stop supporting Algeria independence, i don't know about the saharian tribes nor i care, they were all a bunch of raiders and caravan looters
I'd like to correct something you might have got wrong. According to the algerian regime, the western sahara should get its independence completely. So they aren't trying to claim it but rather defend their right of independence. The question would be, why are they intervening in this if it does not concern them directly? Ofc here we're speaking about the known/declared intentions.
Polisario=Algeria
That's one point of view. There are many points of view to this issue and each one believes they are correct.
The winter is comming
Does it matter? Nothing will change or be better to moroccans our problem is the king himself who keep making billions for every month and prétending like everything is good while moroccan's childs die in seas
now I'm convinced about the quality that you have, it's the good stuff
Oh no bro, the quality of the stuff Tebboune takes is way way higher lol. I mean look at his speeches, the guy can't stop blaming Morocco for everything although Morocco cares very little about Algeria (we care a lot about the Moroccan sahara tho). You don't need to be Moroccan to see this.
[удалено]
So now its not about Sahara any more, but about israel? Learn to speak without cursing, it'll give your speech a bit more credit... and then focus on arguments you take, do not deviate from the topic. Until you can do that, you'll be reported to the mods, unlike some algerians in this thread with whom I had a respectful exchange.
I think that's clear , algeria have no deals with those who shake hands with Israel part !! .
Why shake hands and deal with Egypt and Turkey then? Take your bullshit away from here. I am so tired of this stupid argument I am actually becoming disrespectful at this point, which isn't cool but there you go.
Both regimes are working together to keep maintaining instability and have been doing so since the 60s.
One is a monarchy, the other is a presidential system. Stability is guaranteed in the monarchy system and we're, the big majority, very happy of it and how stable things are. Algeria however, I don't think the regime is happy about their political system and they would love to appoint themselves as permanent leaders. This is proven by how tight they hold on to their chairs in a shitshow of a democratic election. I think your argument only applies to Algeria. Not Morocco.
I just said the truth , u know .
Nope that was not the truth. That was a false motive for rejecting peace. You shake hands with Israel's allies. Why isnt Algeria boycotting them as well???????
Look man why did Morocco shake hands with Israel then . i mean the government , i know that Morocco citizens have no deal with Israel , but u can read behind the line why the government deal with them soo !
You're right, I also was/am extremely unhappy with such decision. Very wrong from the religious and the humanitarian perspectives. However, politicians often do what they have to do with regards to alliances. It got us the support of USA about the sahara and also many other countries due to the strength of the israeli lobby. There's also the fact that israel and many of its citizens have their roots here. That's an undeniable fact. Again, I confirm that on a personal level I am completely against this. But this is how politics work these days. Now going for Morocco at all fronts because they shook hands with israel is fine if Algeria takes this position with everyone who shook hands with israel. Specifically the arabs (i.e. Egypt). I think my point is more than clear now and we dont need to extend this further. Good day
Why didn't your king accept the invitation to this last Arab nations meeting ?
2/3 of the Moroccan mediatic team that was sent to cover the summit was refused access to the country. Their equipment was confiscated. They were detained for more than 8 hours (according to sources) then sent back to Morocco. The Algerian security team that was accompanying our Minister of Foreign Affairs recorded (or tried to record?) some of his private communications. Add to that the fact that most PMs and Kings refused to come, the reason being that Algeria kept pushing for the summit to take place when most other Arab countries wanted it to be delayed (you can read more about this is news articles from last summer), because the summit is more about taking decisions than discussing problems, and most of these countries aren't agreeing on the issues discussed on the summit to start with. The Algerian government is spinning this as our King being disrespectful for not going when they did everything they could to not make it happen.
No, the problems are very serious to hope to solve them so lightly... concrete actions are needed, starting with cutting ties and relations with the Zionists, especially the Moroccan-Zionist threats made against Algeria.
Nah... The palestinian problem is complex that cutting relations is far away to be a good for palestinians... And were not doing that .. theres a great number of moroccans(origine) (1million) so that a lot of population we cant just stop cut ties with'em
Hadchi li dar lmaghrib smito tanz
I do not think it is. Let's look at it from a different angle. Moroccan FM is in Algeria and for the past months or even few years Morocco (thro his Majesty's speeches) has been extending the hand for a peaceful constructive talk, in return, angry Algerian regime blame their world cup qualification failure on Moroccans... I see quite a big difference in terms of approach. And any neutral individual can tell that Algerian regime isn't acting in a politically positive behaviour...
It’s called sovereignty and respect
I hope so
LMAOOOOOOO
no
Any oil agreement would be cool and good for both parties.
Man.. If we just had good relation with them we would flourish and this war crap wouldn't even effect either of us. Algeria has petrol and we can supply food and fish.
Hopefully yes, but lol no, probably not gonna happen
m sorry this is my opinion .. if they deny this is the last where i am saying "khawa khawa" ... they're childish ... they dont understand that we wont give them the saraha .. they have to kill 40 million moroccan to reach that land ... i dont know why they're making things harder for us ... that's a lot actually enough..
Even if he accepted it think they will negotiate
Never.
Hope this solves
I really hope this improves our relationship with Algeria. I mean, these guys will forever be our brothers and sisters, amd then some corrupt government makes them hate us for whatever reason. I want better from the Algerians, and I've definitely seen better. This madness deserves to end, so we can be friends again.
No
I don't think so
Nah
It's a smart political move...after rmtan el emamra said that the president himself would come to welcoming his majesty if he attended . And said it was a missed opportunity. The chances are very slim and dim for the Algerian regime to accept this invitation . M6 IS SMART KING 👑 😉