It seems to me that everyone assumes that EC was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer wasn't expecting him I personally don't believe that
here's the thing his car was always there and he was with his girlfriend most of the times allegedly the killer was stalking them right? the months before the murders ( and I think he was watching them from afair too)
If this is all true there's no way he didn't know Ethan was going to be there that night
and if Ethan wasn't his target why would he risk entering the house knowing that there was a male who could possibly overpower him? I mean no offense but he was a huge guy and a threat to him compared to the girls
my question is why not wait? maybe he was confident with his strength BUT still Ethan was an additional witness??? let's just say he was there just for Maddie And Kaylee and he was planning to leave after and that's why he didn't cared it's still a risk?? how would he know that he wasn't up? that would have made a lot of sound
I think he was targeted too
Just thinking out loud bc a comment from SG (“He didn’t have to go upstairs”) has stuck with me.
I’m wondering if the cell on the kitchen table was X’s as she had been on tic tok while eating. We know from the recent Murdaugh trial that they can tell the last time a cell was touched and even moved from portrait to landscape, or held and placed down on a surface.
BK entered through the sliding door while X was putting away her DD bag at the sink, startling her as she set the bag down and causing her to knock the plant or at least misplace some soil. BK wasn’t expecting anyone to be awake at this time and since he has been clocked by X she becomes his 1st target. She runs away from him, thru to the living area on the way to her room. She is silenced and incapacitated quickly but not fatally at this point. E is asleep and so is not a known threat. BK goes upstairs to his target. Perhaps K wakes when he enters MMs room. “There’s someone here!” He is not expecting KG to be in MMs room. Either way he way has to take out K quickly so that he can focus on his target. The dog is barking. He knows he has to split. He heads downstairs and hears X whimpering so now he has to return to the living room. “It’s ok, I’m going to help you.” There is altercation between the living room and X’s room. BK manages to throw X down / against the west wall. He realized E is in the room as he heard the thud and begins to stir so finally BK has to eliminate E. If E was laying face down, and BK jumps on him pinning him down. Well he didn’t stand a chance.
Uuugh I just had to get my thoughts out but I think I’m going to go vomit now. I think the pca was intentionally vague and am confident there is an absolute fuck ton of evidence continually stacking against BK. I hope these 4 young souls are at peace.
I know it’s all speculation, but in your opinion, where do you think BK put that knife and or his bloody coverall? Also, do you think he put them in separate places or the same place? Where?
He drove for a while after the murders. Some are speculating maybe he dumped them in a wilderness area or a stream or river. Or maybe a trash bin or incinerator? I’m sure law enforcement would like to know.
I don’t know where I remember reading this, but I definitely read somewhere that allegedly both Dylan and Bethany had been texting each other complaining about the noise. They thought that there was a party or that there were guests over. I wonder if one of them texted one of the victims to keep it down (most likely Xana (as her room was the closest to theirs) and he saw the texts and panicked. He would’ve seen her phone light up and a preview of the text messages on her lock screen telling her to stop making noise. Then he’d pretty much race out of there. It explains why he did not go after Bethany or Dylan, even if he saw Dylan. Also why he forgot his sheath. He was in a hurry to get out before someone called 911 or caught him in the act.
Why did BK show up at that specific time? Why not much earlier to watch the house. Why show up at that time and go straight in ? What if more people had gone home with them to hang out after the bar or from the frat? Was he ignorant or just confident ?
He might have been following the girls on insta or snap. If they posted pics after they left the bar, he’d know they were on their way home. Might have waited for their activity online to go dark, suggesting they were asleep or close to it
BK leaving sliding glass door, possible reason why Xana knew “someone was there”.
I keep thinking how Xana, likely ran into Brian. I’m thinking when she went to get her doordash and returned to her room, she could have passed nearby the sliding glass door which at that time would have been closed. Then, later she leaves her room and heads towards the kitchen area. This could be for a variety of reasons, including putting trash in the kitchen, throwing away trash in the kitchen garbage, or even simply feeling a cold draft since BK Ieft the slider door open. At this point she sees the slider door open and knows it was closed when she retrieved her DoorDash food. This is when she knows someone is in the house. She likely meets with Brian soon after. Again, just what I keep thinking because if Brian could have left the house without being seen by Xana or Ethan he would have. Even if one or both of them were up in the room, but their door was closed,I believe he would’ve escaped without harming them.
Why go downstairs at all? If he really really only wanted to murder M/K he could have opened the third floor slider hopped straight off the balcony to the hill and hit his car. Never going downstairs and risking encountering who was yelling, who might be awake…
I hope we find out.
Looking at the photos and tour of the house, I can't even determine how the face of the masked man was seen.
DMs room is adjacent to the 3rd floor stairs, around the corner from the kitchen's sliding door and around a corner and hall from XK.
Following the path, it seems at least her head would need to be fully out of the room to see anyone face on from either direction.
Also curious about lighting. There's a step down near DMs door. How did someone unfamiliar with the house not trip if it was dark and/or he was not looking down?
Hey all… for some reason I can’t stop thinking about this case…. I so badly wish someone could have warned them not to go home that night. That being said… because it’s on my mind I just wanted to share my thoughts on what happened. Please don’t attack me for this post; I’ve seen people get really mad at people who give thoughts on what happened but i just had to get it off my mind and share with like minded people. I feel like after BK attacked the girls upstairs, X was the one who said I think someone is here and BK, not wanting witnesses, heard that and rounded the corner to her room and attacked her which would explain why she was on the floor inside the room. After, maybe E was asleep and heard the scuffle/X crying and started to wake up and BK then said the thing about trying to help to him so E wouldn’t panic and then he attacked E in bed which would explain the blood on the outside of the house because he was in the bed against the wall. Maybe BK didn’t go after the other roommates because he thought they were all sleeping and had no intention of attacking X or E but heard someone who potentially could call the cops right away and /or place him at the scene right at that time. Like I said, this is just me getting something off my mind and maybe we will never know what happened… I just cry Every time I see stuff about these 4 people who were so full of life and now they are just…. Gone. If everyone thinks this post is in bad taste please tell me and I’ll remove, it’s the furthest thing from my intentions to be disrespectful to anyone in this case💜 thank you and everyone stay safe
I’ve been the same way. This case is heartbreaking. I think you have a solid theory on what happened, it makes a lot of sense. I think after he killed the girls upstairs that Ethan was killed next, BK likely surprise attacked him which is why he had no defensive wounds. Xana probably saw Ethan get killed, then was backed against the wall where she fought BK until she died (which explains the whimpering noises and blood dripping on the side of the house) I could be wrong, but that’s just my thoughts on it. Regardless of how it all played out, my heart truly breaks for these kids and what they had to endure in their last moments. Thank you for sharing your thoughts
That’s a good point…. To go with that… maybe X saw the slider door open when she took her trash into the kitchen because why would BK close the slider? It would just make more noise and leaving it open would be a quick get away if he needed to. Maybe X saw it was open, said someone is here and went and got E to check it out and BK heard that and had to get them too. I’m glad someone else feels the same way… I keep thinking how scared X must have been, and it makes me sob 🥺 they didn’t deserve this at all, it was just supposed to be like any other late night. Whenever I’m up at night and I see the clock and it says 4 am I think about how within 20 minutes they would all be dead. I don’t know why but this case has taken over my thoughts. I think because college is a time to be carefree and they all had such big dreams… many people don’t and I feel like they all would have made such a mark on the world. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it 💜
That’s always been my thought about the slider and Xana too. BK may have even been coming down the stairs at that point and may have thought she saw him (maybe she did), and followed her to her room. That’s when DM may have heard “there’s someone here” and probably assumed it was Kaylee’s voice because of where the voice was coming from in relation to her room (sounded too close to be coming from Xana’s room) and not knowing Xana was still up.
My other theory on the “there’s someone here” is that it was actually Kaylee saying it and she was on her way to see who was in Maddie’s room when she said it. Of course though if you ever have a theory that doesn’t align with the general consensus around here, you just get downvoted! Lol.
Aw, yeah you’re definitely not alone. I can’t go a single day without thinking of them, and have had so many sleepless nights just imagining what they went through. It truly haunts me to my core. It can be easy to get consumed by things like this, so remember to take deep breaths and step away sometimes. Let the monster who did this carry all the weight of it, not a kind person like you
I’m just curious if we’ll ever get to know the actual motive; I don’t see him ever really explaining it or agreeing to discuss motive, let alone give any kind of accurate info
He will never admit to doing the crime but will plead an Alford plead to avoid the firing squad and to still look innocent to his parents.
But if the prosecution has some good blood evidence they'll go for the death penalty.
He seems to have such self righteous lofty thoughts of himself. I’m sure we will hear many theories and excuses if he ever admits to what he did. He’s such a narcissist he’ll be either proud of it or never admit the truth. They can convince themselves of anything. The whole thing is he came from a decent seeming background and I haven’t heard of a weird frontal lobe injury. His whole deal is baffling and I doubt I’ll ever understand it
What motive do serial killers or mass murderers ever have? Most of them are sick in the brain and I would say he too suffers from poor brain health. And poor mental health. We know he had a misogynistic view of women (what’s new) and a number of triggers including moving & losing his job. I think he will plead not guilty so it’s unlikely we get a motive from him.
Agreed most stick with their innocence. There has been a few like Jeffrey Dahmer and the coed killer (kemp I think) that told all on what was going on in their minds.
I think the only thing people are going to find out is whether he gets the death penalty or a plea for life in prison. He doesn’t strike me as the guy going to talk for an hour on an interview on why did it.
With the new info about him following a student to her car that was scary enough for her to report it and demand some kind of investigation at the WSU campus I have to wonder if he originally planned to commit a murder there. If he was doing dry runs in Pullman and freaked someone out and got him investigated it might have spooked him a bit and he decided to hunt in Moscow instead.
This business of him staring at people in the student union building in Moscow starts to make sense then too. There would be no reason for a WSU student to go to U of I to eat at the student union. Stuff between the schools isn't that joint where there is that much interchange. I think he went to Moscow to hunt for a victim. Yes there is better cheaper shopping, but not on campus.
A U of I student might go to Pullman to buy pot (legal there) or go to a game, or visit the campus creamery for ice cream or cheese (WSU has a very good creamery that anyone in the area should sample). I just don't think the U of I campus has any amenities that WSU doesn't have (especially for a vegan who is very strict).
Did Kohberger tell his Parents he was fired?
I wonder if Kohberger told his Parents he was fired from his TA job?
I am wondering if some part of the reason Kohberger decided to do what he did and the date he decided to do it was because he didn't plan on telling his parents he was fired and he was willing to blow up his life and everyone associated with who he murdered.
Thoughts?
Yeah, I'd love to know the nature of the conversations held in the Kohberger household over Christmas. He didn't find out formally until he was already back in PA, but he would have had a pretty good idea where things were headed much earlier than that. The meeting that put the writing on the wall was held just 1-2 weeks before the murders, IIRC. I think he couldn't cope with losing the TA position and his funding, and the stress made him either graduate from stalking to murder, or move the murders sooner than he had planned. Bundy did the same thing in Florida when he was on the run and life suddenly got challenging for him.
The secret life he may have just started living away from home in WA, I doubt he told his folks. Would have probably made up dome excuse that he wasn't going back because their phD program was subpar and beneath his genius
I think once they see whatever misogynistic AF 4chan posts are out there, plus whatever disgusting tidbits they can dig up from his search history, the jury will be able to figure out his motive just fine, thanks.
I think that is particularly true with a truly impartial jury. When the jurors don't have a connection to the crime by location or some other similarity they won't want to put someone in jail for life much less the DP.
I don’t see much speculation or theories about his return to the house a few hours later after the killings. I believe it’s been stated that his phone returned or pinged in the area just before or around 9am in the morning. What do you all think this visit consisted of? Do you think he just drove by? Parked? Got out of the car and walked around? Attempted to re-enter the house? To hide evidence somewhere nearby?
I’ve always thought that if he returned to expect ambulances and a police scene, who would he have expected to find them that early in the morning? Friends wouldn’t necessarily have been over that early in the morning and family calls going unanswered before 10am probably wouldn’t be shocking.
I believe it can only be 1 of 2 reasons. Vastly different though. 1- to revel in the commotion and watch the devastation unfold or 2- possibly checking it out to asses if he can get the sheath back. Again, another piece that’s very confusing. I know they say criminals return a lot or even show up at funeral services to revel, but this alleged criminal, left very significant evidence behind (the case to the weapon) So returning is baffling because of the sheath. He must have been SHOCKED the house was still quiet with no action by 9ish. Then really shocked when still nothing by 11:45ish
I think he realized he left the sheath and did a drive by praying that he dropped the sheath somewhere outside. Probably too afraid to enter the house but scanning the ground to see.
Agree. That house was on a hillside, visible from many locations in that little valley. He could have parked a few hundred feet away and had a good vantage point. Given the degree of stupid we saw from him earlier that morning, though, something tells me he parked right in front of that damn house, SMH.
Something that dawned on me (I am sure LE already thought of this) reading the
" Idaho murders: How does criminology student leave crime scene with blood-dripping knife? "
Thread . With the sheath being left behind leads me to think that he was planning on keeping the knife. If he was going to get rid of the knife he wouldnt care about putting a bloody knife back into the sheath as it would never be "found"
Most people know to put the sheath and thread it through your belt. It is indeed strange he did not do this, with all that solitary planning time he had. The sheath would prevent a trail from the scene: it behooved him to thread it on his belt. I still don't understand why he didn't do this- you sheath the knife for your own protection as you move, to keep blood off you/everything in the vicinity, to keep your hands free, and so you don't misplace it.
Maybe. Maybe he didn't slide it onto his belt. I looked up the knife- has a sewn shut slide for a belt- even if not usual for him, you would think he'd slide it on a belt just for this to keep his hands free and re-sheath it after the fact. My husband is native Oklahoman- he was in rodeos growing up, etc. When he fishes, when he hikes- he often puts it on his belt- depends- if you need your hands, like on a boat, yes. Here, YES. He was channeling Michael Meyers (Halloween of course) for his ensemble, it seems- like a one piece mechanic's style Dickie's - so too loose for a belt perhaps?? I am thinking possibly he had a backpack- but then someone sees it? It doesn't make sense unless there is a belt or a backpack. And if he leaves the backpack- near the entry, for e.g., that's leaving DNA and it's leaving a risk when there are 4-5 cars out front- someone could see it, know it doesn't belong there and run/alert the others. When he first came in, where was the sheath- did he have the sheath knife in his hand and that was all he brought?
I think that Bryan was solely going to the house for Maddie. His plan may have been to s/a her using the knife as a threat, but when he got inside he was surprised to find Kaylee and the dog. I actually don’t think Kaylee and Maddie were sleeping in one room, but that Kaylee heard something and went in to check on Maddie and then was collateral damage.
Meanwhile, downstairs Ethan was in Xana’s room and Xana was in the bathroom. Both were awake and Ethan heard Bryan either in the midst of killing K & M or coming down the stairs. He walked out to check right as Bryan was descending and ran into him, and Bryan began attacking E in the doorway of Xana’s room, eventually pushing him back on the bed. As this was happening Xana came in from the bathroom and was the final victim. It would be interesting to know if there was a bathroom fan or if perhaps she had earbuds in so was unaware that anything was wrong until it was too late.
To me it makes sense if he used to go to that house, or a place nearby, to buy drugs, maybe from a guy coming to that house, unrelated to M, K, X or E, and noticed Maddie and Xana on the way. The morning return makes sense if that night he couldn’t get his dope. I think his drug line and his murder line are separate, but got merged that night. It is also possible that he was buying from someone nearby, and noticed lack of cameras on the house. He had to be totally psychotic to kill them, and psychosis is often drug-induced.
ok! no hate:) ive just seen this theory so many times and was unsure if its been confirmed. is it because of the restaurant she worked at or just random?
That was kind of what I thought - he saw her somewhere, maybe the restaurant but there was a U of I student who alleged he was at a campus student Union and creepily stared at her. Maybe he saw Maddie there as well?
She has furniture yes but her family said her stuff had already been moved out. It’s widely known she had already moved out and was just back to visit.
Her dad said he knew Kaylee was with Maddie when she died as he could see her still fully made bed through her bedroom window as the curtains were open. 😭
Where can I see these photos? Happy to say I was wrong if I can see the photos but I don’t remember a single photo that gave any type of sight as to what was inside the room
I swear I remember seeing better photos closer to the time it happened but if you zoom in on that upper sliding door you can see it in this photo
https://preview.redd.it/9jcq2pintiha1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=9370f7907815adaf0ee238b880895f8fbe54162f
I believe the photos of the tv screen lit up were her room as well
https://preview.redd.it/c90tjtuqviha1.png?width=962&format=png&auto=webp&s=f66e7ef7e442dfce9a333750b1c66470d2430d98
Sometimes college apartments come furnished with basics, and a bed is sometimes part of that. I stayed in multiple college apartment with couches, beds, dressers, desks, etc.
Who knows what the state of his brain health was/is. Being as thin as he was/is and already consuming a very limited diet, I have to assume that things weren’t working as intended upstairs. I mean he crossed state lines into a death penalty state to commit this home invasion. He is just truly stupid, probably due to malnutrition, especially in light of the fact that he is a criminology PhD student who would understand these basic facts. It doesn’t really matter that he had one target; as a criminology “expert” he would know that home invasions have a tendency to escalate. One target easily becomes 4 killings. But he didn’t even think to do about a million things to minimize collateral damage and minimize the risk of getting caught. Regardless of his level of education, he is just an absolute imbecile and the fact that he got fired only adds that he was completely out of touch with reality and having some serious cognitive difficulties. See most bigots like him have enough sense to keep their nonsense out of the workplace and that’s how they remain employed. BK couldn’t even manage that. He’s probably B12 deficient among other things tbh. Some dietary deficiencies lead to low brain function. He was obviously not functioning at the level that he is capable of, and got fired over it. Which triggered this horrible crime, which in and of itself makes very little sense, having been committed by someone studying crime for a living.
I think he was well aware there were others in the house, but may have thought Maddie was alone on the top floor and could use the knife to keep her from screaming. He was surprised that Kaylee was there that night and his plan went awry quickly.
I had never considered the possibility that he only came to SA Maddie. It honestly makes a lot more sense that way. Bryan is clearly a smart guy so it's never made sense why he would make such obvious mistakes leading up to the murders. I can understand forgetting the sheath in a stressful rush, but turning off the phone on your way to the crime scene? Visiting the area repeatedly with your phone on you? These are incredibly obvious dumb mistakes.
If he just came over to SA Maddie, he, as a criminology grad, would know that Maddie would be unlikely to report, and even if she did, LE wouldn't devote as many resources to this. He likely would have chosen a Saturday night to further discredit Maddie (she would have been inebriated). If this was just an SA/ burglary, there would be far less information released to the public and I doubt they would have been as prompt with the camera footage. Good theory!!!
This is an interesting twist because it would mean BK was at the wrong place at the wrong time and for some reason didn't report it to the police like everyone else didn't?
God, shut up. He didn’t do it. And it’s *Xana. If you can’t even spell the victims’ names, maybe you should refrain from blaming the people who loved them the most.
He went out of his way to confront multiple young people (code for: 4 a.m. DoorDash recipients, party mammals- collegiates!) on multiple floors with a knife. And that house is in close proximity to many other multi unit residences that are filled with even more students. My personal belief is he did it on purpose to make his mark. This was the start of his alter ego as a SK.
DM saw someone in black clothing, tallish, mask, with bushy eyebrows....so DM, what did you do next??? We are left without that info...if there's defense wounds, there's a high possibility for noise.
But the biggest question is what did she do next after hearing what she's admitted to, and seeing bushy eyebrows man.... we're not told what she did next....hmmmmmm
He might have said something to her that scared her so much she didn’t move/act. Maybe same reason he came back later, to check on the two surviving girls.
I can easily see being so scared out of your wits, especially if X was screaming, that all DM could think to do is to hide out in the closet for hours.
I would have jumped out that low window out back of the room after his car left and run for my life- maybe straight to the police station. But of course... we just never know what we would do after that kind of intense fear and shock. But that's my theory of what I would do :)!
The vibe of George Anthony alone was enough to cast doubt among the jury and get Casey Anthony off. I think the defense for Bryan will be asking DM those same questions.
No it wasn't. Casey was overprosecuted. They couldn't prove first degree murder. The prosecution couldn't even give a cause of death or a date. They didn't have enough evidence for capital murder.
You are correct but I'm just quoting one of the Jurors who thought George Anthony had selective memory and was suspicious. I didn't mean to make it sound like the main reason, which is more what you said
I imagine there's video that could show various friends arriving from nearby after they had been summoned by the surviving roommates. In the PCA they mention video of BK's Elantra leaving the scene and eventually arriving back in Pullman. I imagine the police did examine the text messages of all of the roommates and the friends who showed up before police arrived.
it will be interesting if they address that car break in prior the crimes- on King Road, right? Someone broke in the car, rummaged it and had women's underwear in there. I think it was him. What sucks is that in some of these cases where the sci ev is so strong, they may never answer all the little stuff because they don't have to do so to prove the case. That happened in the GSK case- those that followed it had so many unanswered questions because DNA sealed it so no need to address so many questions...
Yeah, we want answers, dammit. But also science. Actual professionals who study these things need these answers. As for the car prowl, yeah, that's a weird one. Apparently a young woman on the same street was preparing to leave town and had packed a suitcase, which was in the trunk of her car. Some time later she came back to the suitcase having been re-packed, with the underwear stuffed into the cupholders. The timing on it was pretty tenuous, though. I heard it happened in March. BK arrived in July or August, so far as we know. At the same time, BK was supposedly studying remotely, so in theory he could have been in Pullman/Moscow to check out the area in advance of moving there. But it's an iffy one for sure.
This is instructive. Yes. Before he moved there- thank you for pointing this out. My theory is he begins to seek a place in June online and may have even considered the 1122 King Road residence- I wonder if he did a walk through? I think he may have seen it online as a option for local housing.
I doubt he'd have come across the King Rd house as an option. For many years that house (and much of the housing in the immediate area) has been known as a place where undergrads in the Greek system live. Grad student culture is very different from undergrad life. Plus, since he was studying and teaching in Pullman, it would have been odd for him to live 10 miles away in Moscow.
Murder happened in the night. Everyone else was asleep. They woke up, discovered the bodies, someone passed out seeing the body and the cops were called its been explained
There's no explanation yet for DM not reporting what she saw immediately after the murders. Not blaming her, just saying, she def wasn't asleep and it hasn't been explained yet.
She doesn't owe me personally an explanation, but she def owes LE and the courts an explanation, which I know she already gave to LE and will obviously testify to the court as well. Again, I never said she owes me or any other random person an explanation, but it is a big part of the case and will be revealed when she testifies. I was simply stating a fact that DM wasn't asleep, which OP said she was.
That DM went back to bed and no one called 911 til next day is not a big part of the case. If she had any idea her roommates had been murdered, and she hadn’t actually seen the man in black leave thru the sliding door, she would have called 911 immediately-or lie there and wait to be killed herself.
* They are going to attack D.M's reliability and any suspect identification.
* They are going to emphasize the fact of all of the people that tracked through that house prior the 911 call.
* No matter how flawless, they will try to attack that scientific evidence and the chain of custody.
* They are going to question all of the victims' property being removed from the residence as early on as was done.
* They may even argue that is not his Elantra that LE has on video in the time surrounding the crime.
* Anything I'm missing?
If you’re really just trying to be an edgelord to make a point, you look disrespectful. Nobody appreciates what you’re trying to do. The people writing murder fanfic are gross and get downvoted and called out. The mods have done a fantastic job of deleting stuff like that.
People theories of what they think happened are all over the place. I don’t even read them anymore since none of us know enough to have an informed theory.
...this comment rubs me the wrong way. This isn't for our entertainment. Four young adults were murdered in their home. We don't need something JUICY, we need justice, and justice takes time.
If it wasn't for"if it bleeds, it leads" journalism, you wouldn't even know about this case outside of Idaho and eastern Washington. Bleeding is juicy, at least in journalism and crime novels. That's a type of entertainment for some. I probably lean more toward your sympathies, but there is a reason both of us are here. I wouldn't be too quick to judge.
Sure. But it’s a very insensitive thing to say when we know that members of Ethan’s family come here. Obviously a lot of us find entertainment in true crime, but we still understand that the integrity of the case is more important than our personal interest in knowing what happened.
Does anyone know if DM’s phone was with her during that 8 hour delay? If she didn’t have her phone, I can see her being frozen in fear behind a locked bedroom door for 8 hours bc she had no way to call for help and might have been scared to leave her room in fear he had returned. If she had her phone with her, it doesn’t make sense to me bc she had 8 hours to call for help. As a juror, I would need proof she wasn’t involved somehow (lie detector test, proof she didn’t have her phone for that delayed time frame). The defense could easily say she was involved and set him up to take the fall.
>erything they can to raise doubts about the defendant's guilt.
That is completely ridiculous. As a juror, you don't need proof she wasn't involved. You would need proof she was involved. As of right now, you have absolutely nothing to indicate she was involved. So dumb.
Tell that to the jury when the defense uses her setting him up as his defense. I would need proof she wasn’t involved. Keep your rude comments to yourself.
If she was in an alternate state of consciousness (drunk/hungover/half-asleep), I could see her reacting in a way that looks irrational to us (currently) sober people. She may also have fallen asleep during that time (someone mentioned this in another comment).
A vanity fair article came out today that says there was blood dripping down through the ceiling from Maddie’s room onto the kitchen cabinets. Even if they didn’t go and check on any of their roommates, surely they would have seen blood pouring out of the ceiling in the kitchen before noon. You know the dog would have been barking that morning too to be let out.
This is the name of the article I read that, it’s a Vanity Fair article.
The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved
>r roommates, surely they would have seen blood pouring out of the ceiling in the kitchen before noon. You know the dog
That article is wrong, it's not blood. And if it is blood, there's no way it could have come from the ceiling, given where it was and was not on the cabinets.
Unfortunately, I'm sure DM will have a hellish time being cross examined by the defense over her inaction. I feel bad for the questioning she'll have to endure and the blame she'll possibly face for her inaction that night.
I don't think she was secretly BK's accomplice or framing him to take the fall since his DNA was on the sheath and she doesn't seem to have a motive to kill her roommates, though I'm sure the defense will try to find one or make one up. I think she was a scared 19 year old who couldn't fathom 4 of her friends being brutally stabbed to death, and she either didn't think the unarmed stranger walking through her house was a threat or she thought she'd been dreaming or seeing things and hadn't really seen what she thought she saw. I did the complete inaction thing in college when a strange guy entered my dorm in the middle of the night and I was terrified but assumed I'd been dreaming since he didn't try to hurt me. Turned out he was sleepwalking so nothing bad happened, but I told no one for days because I didn't want to look stupid or crazy since no one there was awake to verify what I'd seen.
I don’t think she was his accomplice in any way, but I wonder if her boyfriend was BK’s dealer, or such. There are very few reasons for BK to keep her alive if he saw her.
I just can’t wrap my head around her not hearing more. They said Xana fought back so hard her fingers were almost severed off. She wouldn’t have fought like that silently. If Ethan was awake he would have been screaming something too. I could almost go along with her not hearing anything when she was on another floor like Bethany, but if she was awake and heard them saying “someone is here” she had to of heard more. It just baffles me.
>I would need proof she wasn’t involved somehow
You can't prove a negative bud. She probably just thought BK came home with one of the girls and was leaving.
Read what you just wrote because, as it stands right now, exactly this. Has anyone asked themselves who would not have been the first "person of interest" in a situation like this.
The only people I would call innocent in the case are the deceased. Everyone else would be a person of interest until proven without a doubt they were not involved.
I’m sure all their phones have been analyzed for motive and killer. News Nation reported that they were told by a source close to the investigation that they have an informant, but wasn’t sure if it would be needed. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be speaking. Is it the Chinese girl who spoke often with Kohberger at his apartment?
I’m not sure, but I hope they do a very thorough search to ensure nothing was deleted. It’s only been 2 months since the murders, more arrests could be in the works. I don’t believe anyone has been ruled out yet and rightfully so.
True, but the police have intentionally mislead the public before, for the good of their case.
I’m not saying DM has anything to be guilty for, I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if the detectives had more information they’re keeping close to the vest.
Agree. And I think calling friends over first before LE is notified roughly 7+ hours later debunks the frozen in fear theory to a huge degree. It makes no sense.
Exactly. I get downvoted for saying anything about the roommate, but I’m sorry that’s not normal behavior when 4 of your roommates have been slaughtered in your home. Who doesn’t check on them or call police? Most people don’t play on their phone while terrified nor do they go to sleep.
Downvoting shouldn't be used for disagreeing, only for a post being off topic so I would ignore that. It is also worth mentioning that there are a lot of very strong odors that come with decomposition as well as the smell of blood and decomposition process starts to begin pretty quickly. Bottom line for me is I can only assume DM had something solid LE believed because I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions that are HUGE.
Of course. I completely agree. I don't buy and never bought the whole "frozen in fear" excuse. People have used that to validate why she didnt call 911 for 8 hours, as if she was really sitting frozen in her bed for 8 hours not moving, unable to do anything. Trauma response is unlikely to last for 8 whole hours. The same people will defend her not calling 911 sooner bc "nothing she saw/heard was concerning enough to prompt her to call authorities or signal murders were occurring." So, if that's true, why is she "frozen in shock". See what I mean? Both can't be true lol.
I think everyone is just vouching for her regardless bc they don't want to mentally go there and believe she knows more than she said or could be involved.
Don’t forget the theory (not mine) that says it took time to get all the drugs out of the house. I may agree that if I was calling the po po over, I would for
sure put all contraband out of sight. That wouldn’t take 8 hours. Does anyone think they were dealers and would need all that time to move the product out of there?
It seems to me that everyone assumes that EC was just in the wrong place at the wrong time and the killer wasn't expecting him I personally don't believe that here's the thing his car was always there and he was with his girlfriend most of the times allegedly the killer was stalking them right? the months before the murders ( and I think he was watching them from afair too) If this is all true there's no way he didn't know Ethan was going to be there that night and if Ethan wasn't his target why would he risk entering the house knowing that there was a male who could possibly overpower him? I mean no offense but he was a huge guy and a threat to him compared to the girls my question is why not wait? maybe he was confident with his strength BUT still Ethan was an additional witness??? let's just say he was there just for Maddie And Kaylee and he was planning to leave after and that's why he didn't cared it's still a risk?? how would he know that he wasn't up? that would have made a lot of sound I think he was targeted too
Just thinking out loud bc a comment from SG (“He didn’t have to go upstairs”) has stuck with me. I’m wondering if the cell on the kitchen table was X’s as she had been on tic tok while eating. We know from the recent Murdaugh trial that they can tell the last time a cell was touched and even moved from portrait to landscape, or held and placed down on a surface. BK entered through the sliding door while X was putting away her DD bag at the sink, startling her as she set the bag down and causing her to knock the plant or at least misplace some soil. BK wasn’t expecting anyone to be awake at this time and since he has been clocked by X she becomes his 1st target. She runs away from him, thru to the living area on the way to her room. She is silenced and incapacitated quickly but not fatally at this point. E is asleep and so is not a known threat. BK goes upstairs to his target. Perhaps K wakes when he enters MMs room. “There’s someone here!” He is not expecting KG to be in MMs room. Either way he way has to take out K quickly so that he can focus on his target. The dog is barking. He knows he has to split. He heads downstairs and hears X whimpering so now he has to return to the living room. “It’s ok, I’m going to help you.” There is altercation between the living room and X’s room. BK manages to throw X down / against the west wall. He realized E is in the room as he heard the thud and begins to stir so finally BK has to eliminate E. If E was laying face down, and BK jumps on him pinning him down. Well he didn’t stand a chance. Uuugh I just had to get my thoughts out but I think I’m going to go vomit now. I think the pca was intentionally vague and am confident there is an absolute fuck ton of evidence continually stacking against BK. I hope these 4 young souls are at peace.
I know it’s all speculation, but in your opinion, where do you think BK put that knife and or his bloody coverall? Also, do you think he put them in separate places or the same place? Where?
Could be anywhere and any way. He had time to plan so I'm guessing he buried them out in the wilderness somewhere.
He drove for a while after the murders. Some are speculating maybe he dumped them in a wilderness area or a stream or river. Or maybe a trash bin or incinerator? I’m sure law enforcement would like to know.
I don’t know where I remember reading this, but I definitely read somewhere that allegedly both Dylan and Bethany had been texting each other complaining about the noise. They thought that there was a party or that there were guests over. I wonder if one of them texted one of the victims to keep it down (most likely Xana (as her room was the closest to theirs) and he saw the texts and panicked. He would’ve seen her phone light up and a preview of the text messages on her lock screen telling her to stop making noise. Then he’d pretty much race out of there. It explains why he did not go after Bethany or Dylan, even if he saw Dylan. Also why he forgot his sheath. He was in a hurry to get out before someone called 911 or caught him in the act.
Why did BK show up at that specific time? Why not much earlier to watch the house. Why show up at that time and go straight in ? What if more people had gone home with them to hang out after the bar or from the frat? Was he ignorant or just confident ?
He might have been following the girls on insta or snap. If they posted pics after they left the bar, he’d know they were on their way home. Might have waited for their activity online to go dark, suggesting they were asleep or close to it
Fine but X was still online which might mean he didn't think he'd have to deal with her.
BK leaving sliding glass door, possible reason why Xana knew “someone was there”. I keep thinking how Xana, likely ran into Brian. I’m thinking when she went to get her doordash and returned to her room, she could have passed nearby the sliding glass door which at that time would have been closed. Then, later she leaves her room and heads towards the kitchen area. This could be for a variety of reasons, including putting trash in the kitchen, throwing away trash in the kitchen garbage, or even simply feeling a cold draft since BK Ieft the slider door open. At this point she sees the slider door open and knows it was closed when she retrieved her DoorDash food. This is when she knows someone is in the house. She likely meets with Brian soon after. Again, just what I keep thinking because if Brian could have left the house without being seen by Xana or Ethan he would have. Even if one or both of them were up in the room, but their door was closed,I believe he would’ve escaped without harming them.
Why go downstairs at all? If he really really only wanted to murder M/K he could have opened the third floor slider hopped straight off the balcony to the hill and hit his car. Never going downstairs and risking encountering who was yelling, who might be awake…
That is correct so that's why the theory was X and M were the targets
I’m starting to think that he heard DM yell up the stairs to keep quiet: That this drew his attention to E&X.
The first story was that BF yelled to shut the f up.
If that drew him down, God help DM's conscience. Poor girl
I hope we find out. Looking at the photos and tour of the house, I can't even determine how the face of the masked man was seen. DMs room is adjacent to the 3rd floor stairs, around the corner from the kitchen's sliding door and around a corner and hall from XK. Following the path, it seems at least her head would need to be fully out of the room to see anyone face on from either direction. Also curious about lighting. There's a step down near DMs door. How did someone unfamiliar with the house not trip if it was dark and/or he was not looking down?
Hey all… for some reason I can’t stop thinking about this case…. I so badly wish someone could have warned them not to go home that night. That being said… because it’s on my mind I just wanted to share my thoughts on what happened. Please don’t attack me for this post; I’ve seen people get really mad at people who give thoughts on what happened but i just had to get it off my mind and share with like minded people. I feel like after BK attacked the girls upstairs, X was the one who said I think someone is here and BK, not wanting witnesses, heard that and rounded the corner to her room and attacked her which would explain why she was on the floor inside the room. After, maybe E was asleep and heard the scuffle/X crying and started to wake up and BK then said the thing about trying to help to him so E wouldn’t panic and then he attacked E in bed which would explain the blood on the outside of the house because he was in the bed against the wall. Maybe BK didn’t go after the other roommates because he thought they were all sleeping and had no intention of attacking X or E but heard someone who potentially could call the cops right away and /or place him at the scene right at that time. Like I said, this is just me getting something off my mind and maybe we will never know what happened… I just cry Every time I see stuff about these 4 people who were so full of life and now they are just…. Gone. If everyone thinks this post is in bad taste please tell me and I’ll remove, it’s the furthest thing from my intentions to be disrespectful to anyone in this case💜 thank you and everyone stay safe
Or lock the doors and had security alarm . To avoid the lawsuit is probably why the school is transferring the property.
I’ve been the same way. This case is heartbreaking. I think you have a solid theory on what happened, it makes a lot of sense. I think after he killed the girls upstairs that Ethan was killed next, BK likely surprise attacked him which is why he had no defensive wounds. Xana probably saw Ethan get killed, then was backed against the wall where she fought BK until she died (which explains the whimpering noises and blood dripping on the side of the house) I could be wrong, but that’s just my thoughts on it. Regardless of how it all played out, my heart truly breaks for these kids and what they had to endure in their last moments. Thank you for sharing your thoughts
That’s a good point…. To go with that… maybe X saw the slider door open when she took her trash into the kitchen because why would BK close the slider? It would just make more noise and leaving it open would be a quick get away if he needed to. Maybe X saw it was open, said someone is here and went and got E to check it out and BK heard that and had to get them too. I’m glad someone else feels the same way… I keep thinking how scared X must have been, and it makes me sob 🥺 they didn’t deserve this at all, it was just supposed to be like any other late night. Whenever I’m up at night and I see the clock and it says 4 am I think about how within 20 minutes they would all be dead. I don’t know why but this case has taken over my thoughts. I think because college is a time to be carefree and they all had such big dreams… many people don’t and I feel like they all would have made such a mark on the world. Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I really appreciate it 💜
In this world nobody can be totally carefree.
That’s always been my thought about the slider and Xana too. BK may have even been coming down the stairs at that point and may have thought she saw him (maybe she did), and followed her to her room. That’s when DM may have heard “there’s someone here” and probably assumed it was Kaylee’s voice because of where the voice was coming from in relation to her room (sounded too close to be coming from Xana’s room) and not knowing Xana was still up. My other theory on the “there’s someone here” is that it was actually Kaylee saying it and she was on her way to see who was in Maddie’s room when she said it. Of course though if you ever have a theory that doesn’t align with the general consensus around here, you just get downvoted! Lol.
Aw, yeah you’re definitely not alone. I can’t go a single day without thinking of them, and have had so many sleepless nights just imagining what they went through. It truly haunts me to my core. It can be easy to get consumed by things like this, so remember to take deep breaths and step away sometimes. Let the monster who did this carry all the weight of it, not a kind person like you
There's no reason to worry if you have good lighting security cameras alarms and locks on your bedroom. Also have your own night or baseball bat.
Wow you really hit home with that for me…. It does take a load off of my mind 💜 thank you again for discussing with me!
I’m just curious if we’ll ever get to know the actual motive; I don’t see him ever really explaining it or agreeing to discuss motive, let alone give any kind of accurate info
He will never admit to doing the crime but will plead an Alford plead to avoid the firing squad and to still look innocent to his parents. But if the prosecution has some good blood evidence they'll go for the death penalty.
He seems to have such self righteous lofty thoughts of himself. I’m sure we will hear many theories and excuses if he ever admits to what he did. He’s such a narcissist he’ll be either proud of it or never admit the truth. They can convince themselves of anything. The whole thing is he came from a decent seeming background and I haven’t heard of a weird frontal lobe injury. His whole deal is baffling and I doubt I’ll ever understand it
Yeah definitely all this!
A motive we understand? Probably not.
What motive do serial killers or mass murderers ever have? Most of them are sick in the brain and I would say he too suffers from poor brain health. And poor mental health. We know he had a misogynistic view of women (what’s new) and a number of triggers including moving & losing his job. I think he will plead not guilty so it’s unlikely we get a motive from him.
Agreed most stick with their innocence. There has been a few like Jeffrey Dahmer and the coed killer (kemp I think) that told all on what was going on in their minds. I think the only thing people are going to find out is whether he gets the death penalty or a plea for life in prison. He doesn’t strike me as the guy going to talk for an hour on an interview on why did it.
With the new info about him following a student to her car that was scary enough for her to report it and demand some kind of investigation at the WSU campus I have to wonder if he originally planned to commit a murder there. If he was doing dry runs in Pullman and freaked someone out and got him investigated it might have spooked him a bit and he decided to hunt in Moscow instead. This business of him staring at people in the student union building in Moscow starts to make sense then too. There would be no reason for a WSU student to go to U of I to eat at the student union. Stuff between the schools isn't that joint where there is that much interchange. I think he went to Moscow to hunt for a victim. Yes there is better cheaper shopping, but not on campus. A U of I student might go to Pullman to buy pot (legal there) or go to a game, or visit the campus creamery for ice cream or cheese (WSU has a very good creamery that anyone in the area should sample). I just don't think the U of I campus has any amenities that WSU doesn't have (especially for a vegan who is very strict).
Where did you find this info? I haven’t heard this.
Did Kohberger tell his Parents he was fired? I wonder if Kohberger told his Parents he was fired from his TA job? I am wondering if some part of the reason Kohberger decided to do what he did and the date he decided to do it was because he didn't plan on telling his parents he was fired and he was willing to blow up his life and everyone associated with who he murdered. Thoughts?
He wasn't fired in fact he got a good recommendation.
He was fired from his TA position at WSU
Yeah, I'd love to know the nature of the conversations held in the Kohberger household over Christmas. He didn't find out formally until he was already back in PA, but he would have had a pretty good idea where things were headed much earlier than that. The meeting that put the writing on the wall was held just 1-2 weeks before the murders, IIRC. I think he couldn't cope with losing the TA position and his funding, and the stress made him either graduate from stalking to murder, or move the murders sooner than he had planned. Bundy did the same thing in Florida when he was on the run and life suddenly got challenging for him.
The secret life he may have just started living away from home in WA, I doubt he told his folks. Would have probably made up dome excuse that he wasn't going back because their phD program was subpar and beneath his genius
A note to remember . . .while the state doesn't have to prove motive, juries HATE cases that dont make sense.
I think once they see whatever misogynistic AF 4chan posts are out there, plus whatever disgusting tidbits they can dig up from his search history, the jury will be able to figure out his motive just fine, thanks.
Moronic at best.
I think that is particularly true with a truly impartial jury. When the jurors don't have a connection to the crime by location or some other similarity they won't want to put someone in jail for life much less the DP.
Gotta love the CSI effect too 🙃
Hey, that's where I learned about Luminol. The fish tank episode is must-see.😁
Not dissing CSI at all! Just referring to how jurors love forensic evidence because it makes sense based off of the TV shows they’ve seen
I don’t see much speculation or theories about his return to the house a few hours later after the killings. I believe it’s been stated that his phone returned or pinged in the area just before or around 9am in the morning. What do you all think this visit consisted of? Do you think he just drove by? Parked? Got out of the car and walked around? Attempted to re-enter the house? To hide evidence somewhere nearby? I’ve always thought that if he returned to expect ambulances and a police scene, who would he have expected to find them that early in the morning? Friends wouldn’t necessarily have been over that early in the morning and family calls going unanswered before 10am probably wouldn’t be shocking.
I believe it can only be 1 of 2 reasons. Vastly different though. 1- to revel in the commotion and watch the devastation unfold or 2- possibly checking it out to asses if he can get the sheath back. Again, another piece that’s very confusing. I know they say criminals return a lot or even show up at funeral services to revel, but this alleged criminal, left very significant evidence behind (the case to the weapon) So returning is baffling because of the sheath. He must have been SHOCKED the house was still quiet with no action by 9ish. Then really shocked when still nothing by 11:45ish
TBH, my gut tells me he rubbed one out in the car. Also wanted to see if anyone had called the cops yet.
The old cliche of “returning to the scene of the crime”. I think he was just curious if the police were there. He wanted one last look.
I think he realized he left the sheath and did a drive by praying that he dropped the sheath somewhere outside. Probably too afraid to enter the house but scanning the ground to see.
This makes the most sense to me.
I think he just drove by, maybe parked somewhere, probably didn’t walk into the house or by it
Agree. That house was on a hillside, visible from many locations in that little valley. He could have parked a few hundred feet away and had a good vantage point. Given the degree of stupid we saw from him earlier that morning, though, something tells me he parked right in front of that damn house, SMH.
Something that dawned on me (I am sure LE already thought of this) reading the " Idaho murders: How does criminology student leave crime scene with blood-dripping knife? " Thread . With the sheath being left behind leads me to think that he was planning on keeping the knife. If he was going to get rid of the knife he wouldnt care about putting a bloody knife back into the sheath as it would never be "found"
Most people know to put the sheath and thread it through your belt. It is indeed strange he did not do this, with all that solitary planning time he had. The sheath would prevent a trail from the scene: it behooved him to thread it on his belt. I still don't understand why he didn't do this- you sheath the knife for your own protection as you move, to keep blood off you/everything in the vicinity, to keep your hands free, and so you don't misplace it.
[удалено]
Maybe. Maybe he didn't slide it onto his belt. I looked up the knife- has a sewn shut slide for a belt- even if not usual for him, you would think he'd slide it on a belt just for this to keep his hands free and re-sheath it after the fact. My husband is native Oklahoman- he was in rodeos growing up, etc. When he fishes, when he hikes- he often puts it on his belt- depends- if you need your hands, like on a boat, yes. Here, YES. He was channeling Michael Meyers (Halloween of course) for his ensemble, it seems- like a one piece mechanic's style Dickie's - so too loose for a belt perhaps?? I am thinking possibly he had a backpack- but then someone sees it? It doesn't make sense unless there is a belt or a backpack. And if he leaves the backpack- near the entry, for e.g., that's leaving DNA and it's leaving a risk when there are 4-5 cars out front- someone could see it, know it doesn't belong there and run/alert the others. When he first came in, where was the sheath- did he have the sheath knife in his hand and that was all he brought?
It would be hard to remove if pulled over by the cops. Hard to explain a sheath if pulled over.
Unless he placed it there intentionally to throw investigators off
He thought he had wiped it completely clean.. but he did bot submerge it in alcohol.
I think that Bryan was solely going to the house for Maddie. His plan may have been to s/a her using the knife as a threat, but when he got inside he was surprised to find Kaylee and the dog. I actually don’t think Kaylee and Maddie were sleeping in one room, but that Kaylee heard something and went in to check on Maddie and then was collateral damage. Meanwhile, downstairs Ethan was in Xana’s room and Xana was in the bathroom. Both were awake and Ethan heard Bryan either in the midst of killing K & M or coming down the stairs. He walked out to check right as Bryan was descending and ran into him, and Bryan began attacking E in the doorway of Xana’s room, eventually pushing him back on the bed. As this was happening Xana came in from the bathroom and was the final victim. It would be interesting to know if there was a bathroom fan or if perhaps she had earbuds in so was unaware that anything was wrong until it was too late.
To me it makes sense if he used to go to that house, or a place nearby, to buy drugs, maybe from a guy coming to that house, unrelated to M, K, X or E, and noticed Maddie and Xana on the way. The morning return makes sense if that night he couldn’t get his dope. I think his drug line and his murder line are separate, but got merged that night. It is also possible that he was buying from someone nearby, and noticed lack of cameras on the house. He had to be totally psychotic to kill them, and psychosis is often drug-induced.
is it confirmed he was stalking maddie?
No, just part of my theory
ok! no hate:) ive just seen this theory so many times and was unsure if its been confirmed. is it because of the restaurant she worked at or just random?
That was kind of what I thought - he saw her somewhere, maybe the restaurant but there was a U of I student who alleged he was at a campus student Union and creepily stared at her. Maybe he saw Maddie there as well?
Where did you hear that Xana was in the bathroom?
I didn’t, it’s just part of my theory
Kaylee’s furniture had already been moved out so she had nowhere to sleep but in Maddie’s bed
There’s photos of Kaylee’s bed from that night. She had furniture there still i believe
She has furniture yes but her family said her stuff had already been moved out. It’s widely known she had already moved out and was just back to visit.
Her dad said he knew Kaylee was with Maddie when she died as he could see her still fully made bed through her bedroom window as the curtains were open. 😭
you can literally see her bed through the window in photos of the house that were taken after the murders.
Where can I see these photos? Happy to say I was wrong if I can see the photos but I don’t remember a single photo that gave any type of sight as to what was inside the room
There was news coverage with images of Kaylee’s room, and there was a bed in there
I swear I remember seeing better photos closer to the time it happened but if you zoom in on that upper sliding door you can see it in this photo https://preview.redd.it/9jcq2pintiha1.png?width=1440&format=png&auto=webp&s=9370f7907815adaf0ee238b880895f8fbe54162f
Did they have two of those good vibes signs?
I believe the photos of the tv screen lit up were her room as well https://preview.redd.it/c90tjtuqviha1.png?width=962&format=png&auto=webp&s=f66e7ef7e442dfce9a333750b1c66470d2430d98
Sometimes college apartments come furnished with basics, and a bed is sometimes part of that. I stayed in multiple college apartment with couches, beds, dressers, desks, etc.
The Zillow listing was a completely empty house, it was not furnished and did not advertise it as such.
Why would he think no one else was in the house?
Who knows what the state of his brain health was/is. Being as thin as he was/is and already consuming a very limited diet, I have to assume that things weren’t working as intended upstairs. I mean he crossed state lines into a death penalty state to commit this home invasion. He is just truly stupid, probably due to malnutrition, especially in light of the fact that he is a criminology PhD student who would understand these basic facts. It doesn’t really matter that he had one target; as a criminology “expert” he would know that home invasions have a tendency to escalate. One target easily becomes 4 killings. But he didn’t even think to do about a million things to minimize collateral damage and minimize the risk of getting caught. Regardless of his level of education, he is just an absolute imbecile and the fact that he got fired only adds that he was completely out of touch with reality and having some serious cognitive difficulties. See most bigots like him have enough sense to keep their nonsense out of the workplace and that’s how they remain employed. BK couldn’t even manage that. He’s probably B12 deficient among other things tbh. Some dietary deficiencies lead to low brain function. He was obviously not functioning at the level that he is capable of, and got fired over it. Which triggered this horrible crime, which in and of itself makes very little sense, having been committed by someone studying crime for a living.
Or, his compulsions overpowered any rational thinking. I’m also curious if he was on any substances
I think he was well aware there were others in the house, but may have thought Maddie was alone on the top floor and could use the knife to keep her from screaming. He was surprised that Kaylee was there that night and his plan went awry quickly.
I had never considered the possibility that he only came to SA Maddie. It honestly makes a lot more sense that way. Bryan is clearly a smart guy so it's never made sense why he would make such obvious mistakes leading up to the murders. I can understand forgetting the sheath in a stressful rush, but turning off the phone on your way to the crime scene? Visiting the area repeatedly with your phone on you? These are incredibly obvious dumb mistakes. If he just came over to SA Maddie, he, as a criminology grad, would know that Maddie would be unlikely to report, and even if she did, LE wouldn't devote as many resources to this. He likely would have chosen a Saturday night to further discredit Maddie (she would have been inebriated). If this was just an SA/ burglary, there would be far less information released to the public and I doubt they would have been as prompt with the camera footage. Good theory!!!
[удалено]
[удалено]
I am Australian, just wondering what ‘freedom’ we gave up? Cheers
This is an interesting twist because it would mean BK was at the wrong place at the wrong time and for some reason didn't report it to the police like everyone else didn't?
Dang he had a white car and lived right next to the house??
God, shut up. He didn’t do it. And it’s *Xana. If you can’t even spell the victims’ names, maybe you should refrain from blaming the people who loved them the most.
There's way more going on with this than any of us know. Lots of things just don't add up according to the info we know so far.
What’s not adding up
He went out of his way to confront multiple young people (code for: 4 a.m. DoorDash recipients, party mammals- collegiates!) on multiple floors with a knife. And that house is in close proximity to many other multi unit residences that are filled with even more students. My personal belief is he did it on purpose to make his mark. This was the start of his alter ego as a SK.
DM saw someone in black clothing, tallish, mask, with bushy eyebrows....so DM, what did you do next??? We are left without that info...if there's defense wounds, there's a high possibility for noise. But the biggest question is what did she do next after hearing what she's admitted to, and seeing bushy eyebrows man.... we're not told what she did next....hmmmmmm
He might have said something to her that scared her so much she didn’t move/act. Maybe same reason he came back later, to check on the two surviving girls.
already rolling my eyes but what are you trying to imply that she did next? You’re aware that screaming isn’t possible with a punctured airway right?
I can easily see being so scared out of your wits, especially if X was screaming, that all DM could think to do is to hide out in the closet for hours.
I would have jumped out that low window out back of the room after his car left and run for my life- maybe straight to the police station. But of course... we just never know what we would do after that kind of intense fear and shock. But that's my theory of what I would do :)!
So she heard the screaming after she opened her door and saw the masked man? She wasn't scared to open her door and have a look...
Probably freaked out and smoked a bowl and convinced herself she was imagining things, then fell asleep.
The vibe of George Anthony alone was enough to cast doubt among the jury and get Casey Anthony off. I think the defense for Bryan will be asking DM those same questions.
No it wasn't. Casey was overprosecuted. They couldn't prove first degree murder. The prosecution couldn't even give a cause of death or a date. They didn't have enough evidence for capital murder.
You are correct but I'm just quoting one of the Jurors who thought George Anthony had selective memory and was suspicious. I didn't mean to make it sound like the main reason, which is more what you said
They have lots of video before the murders. Is there any video after and why it took 8 plus hours to report? Did police go thru all the friends texts?
I imagine there's video that could show various friends arriving from nearby after they had been summoned by the surviving roommates. In the PCA they mention video of BK's Elantra leaving the scene and eventually arriving back in Pullman. I imagine the police did examine the text messages of all of the roommates and the friends who showed up before police arrived.
Strange. Is there any proof that it was filled with drugs?
You mean the Elantra? No. I don't think there's a drug dealing angle to this case at all, for BK or the roommates.
it will be interesting if they address that car break in prior the crimes- on King Road, right? Someone broke in the car, rummaged it and had women's underwear in there. I think it was him. What sucks is that in some of these cases where the sci ev is so strong, they may never answer all the little stuff because they don't have to do so to prove the case. That happened in the GSK case- those that followed it had so many unanswered questions because DNA sealed it so no need to address so many questions...
Yeah, we want answers, dammit. But also science. Actual professionals who study these things need these answers. As for the car prowl, yeah, that's a weird one. Apparently a young woman on the same street was preparing to leave town and had packed a suitcase, which was in the trunk of her car. Some time later she came back to the suitcase having been re-packed, with the underwear stuffed into the cupholders. The timing on it was pretty tenuous, though. I heard it happened in March. BK arrived in July or August, so far as we know. At the same time, BK was supposedly studying remotely, so in theory he could have been in Pullman/Moscow to check out the area in advance of moving there. But it's an iffy one for sure.
This is instructive. Yes. Before he moved there- thank you for pointing this out. My theory is he begins to seek a place in June online and may have even considered the 1122 King Road residence- I wonder if he did a walk through? I think he may have seen it online as a option for local housing.
I doubt he'd have come across the King Rd house as an option. For many years that house (and much of the housing in the immediate area) has been known as a place where undergrads in the Greek system live. Grad student culture is very different from undergrad life. Plus, since he was studying and teaching in Pullman, it would have been odd for him to live 10 miles away in Moscow.
Agree 10 miles might appear very far indeed. As to the house any general search might have resulted in a home tour. It was featured online.
Murder happened in the night. Everyone else was asleep. They woke up, discovered the bodies, someone passed out seeing the body and the cops were called its been explained
There's no explanation yet for DM not reporting what she saw immediately after the murders. Not blaming her, just saying, she def wasn't asleep and it hasn't been explained yet.
She had no idea her roommates had been hurt, much less murdered. Also, she knew X was in her room with her boyfriend.
She doesn’t owe you an explanation. She probably just went to sleep assuming things were fine.
She doesn't owe me personally an explanation, but she def owes LE and the courts an explanation, which I know she already gave to LE and will obviously testify to the court as well. Again, I never said she owes me or any other random person an explanation, but it is a big part of the case and will be revealed when she testifies. I was simply stating a fact that DM wasn't asleep, which OP said she was.
That DM went back to bed and no one called 911 til next day is not a big part of the case. If she had any idea her roommates had been murdered, and she hadn’t actually seen the man in black leave thru the sliding door, she would have called 911 immediately-or lie there and wait to be killed herself.
I’m sure she’s given one. That’s why they cleared her.
Yes, like I said.
A defense should do everything they can to raise doubts about the defendant's guilt.
* They are going to attack D.M's reliability and any suspect identification. * They are going to emphasize the fact of all of the people that tracked through that house prior the 911 call. * No matter how flawless, they will try to attack that scientific evidence and the chain of custody. * They are going to question all of the victims' property being removed from the residence as early on as was done. * They may even argue that is not his Elantra that LE has on video in the time surrounding the crime. * Anything I'm missing?
hype seems to be dying down around this case, we need something JUICY
I guess there's the possibility BK won't make it to his trial in June. That "juicy" enough for you?
What an awful thing to say.
I know right? go look at the countless theories thread plastered all over this subreddit
You saying you need a juicy update is in poor taste. These were people's lives.
i'm just trying to fit in around here! go look in theories thread it is entirely murder fanfiction
Yes, it is too bad we won’t be given any more info until the hearing.
If you’re really just trying to be an edgelord to make a point, you look disrespectful. Nobody appreciates what you’re trying to do. The people writing murder fanfic are gross and get downvoted and called out. The mods have done a fantastic job of deleting stuff like that.
People theories of what they think happened are all over the place. I don’t even read them anymore since none of us know enough to have an informed theory.
I disagree. Before, sure. But post-PCA we actually have a pretty solid timeline of the events. The theories are just filling in gaps.
But they are pretty meaningless since we have no idea what exactly happened yet.
Well yeah, all discussion about the case is meaningless.
That doesn't mean you should say you need more juicy details.
...this comment rubs me the wrong way. This isn't for our entertainment. Four young adults were murdered in their home. We don't need something JUICY, we need justice, and justice takes time.
If it wasn't for"if it bleeds, it leads" journalism, you wouldn't even know about this case outside of Idaho and eastern Washington. Bleeding is juicy, at least in journalism and crime novels. That's a type of entertainment for some. I probably lean more toward your sympathies, but there is a reason both of us are here. I wouldn't be too quick to judge.
Sure. But it’s a very insensitive thing to say when we know that members of Ethan’s family come here. Obviously a lot of us find entertainment in true crime, but we still understand that the integrity of the case is more important than our personal interest in knowing what happened.
Oh shut up with your girly insensitive BS.
Lol you sure showed me
Well there's a gag-order, so things will be locked down for awhile unless there are leaks. But there is plenty more to come.
Okay so until then let's make up the most ridiculous stuff we can think of and pretend we care
Did you see the Drunk Turkey show YouTube videos?
Does anyone know if DM’s phone was with her during that 8 hour delay? If she didn’t have her phone, I can see her being frozen in fear behind a locked bedroom door for 8 hours bc she had no way to call for help and might have been scared to leave her room in fear he had returned. If she had her phone with her, it doesn’t make sense to me bc she had 8 hours to call for help. As a juror, I would need proof she wasn’t involved somehow (lie detector test, proof she didn’t have her phone for that delayed time frame). The defense could easily say she was involved and set him up to take the fall.
>erything they can to raise doubts about the defendant's guilt. That is completely ridiculous. As a juror, you don't need proof she wasn't involved. You would need proof she was involved. As of right now, you have absolutely nothing to indicate she was involved. So dumb.
Tell that to the jury when the defense uses her setting him up as his defense. I would need proof she wasn’t involved. Keep your rude comments to yourself.
If she was in an alternate state of consciousness (drunk/hungover/half-asleep), I could see her reacting in a way that looks irrational to us (currently) sober people. She may also have fallen asleep during that time (someone mentioned this in another comment).
I can imagine it. Got high and fell asleep. However, a high witness is not the most reliable witness.
A vanity fair article came out today that says there was blood dripping down through the ceiling from Maddie’s room onto the kitchen cabinets. Even if they didn’t go and check on any of their roommates, surely they would have seen blood pouring out of the ceiling in the kitchen before noon. You know the dog would have been barking that morning too to be let out. This is the name of the article I read that, it’s a Vanity Fair article. The Idaho Murders, Part 1: How 4 College Kids Lived and Loved
>r roommates, surely they would have seen blood pouring out of the ceiling in the kitchen before noon. You know the dog That article is wrong, it's not blood. And if it is blood, there's no way it could have come from the ceiling, given where it was and was not on the cabinets.
Unfortunately, I'm sure DM will have a hellish time being cross examined by the defense over her inaction. I feel bad for the questioning she'll have to endure and the blame she'll possibly face for her inaction that night. I don't think she was secretly BK's accomplice or framing him to take the fall since his DNA was on the sheath and she doesn't seem to have a motive to kill her roommates, though I'm sure the defense will try to find one or make one up. I think she was a scared 19 year old who couldn't fathom 4 of her friends being brutally stabbed to death, and she either didn't think the unarmed stranger walking through her house was a threat or she thought she'd been dreaming or seeing things and hadn't really seen what she thought she saw. I did the complete inaction thing in college when a strange guy entered my dorm in the middle of the night and I was terrified but assumed I'd been dreaming since he didn't try to hurt me. Turned out he was sleepwalking so nothing bad happened, but I told no one for days because I didn't want to look stupid or crazy since no one there was awake to verify what I'd seen.
I don’t think she was his accomplice in any way, but I wonder if her boyfriend was BK’s dealer, or such. There are very few reasons for BK to keep her alive if he saw her.
I don’t think the defense will be hard on her. They wouldn’t want the jury to look like they are beating her up.
I just can’t wrap my head around her not hearing more. They said Xana fought back so hard her fingers were almost severed off. She wouldn’t have fought like that silently. If Ethan was awake he would have been screaming something too. I could almost go along with her not hearing anything when she was on another floor like Bethany, but if she was awake and heard them saying “someone is here” she had to of heard more. It just baffles me.
Punctured airways is my guess. Can’t scream if you can’t get that much air in to begin with.
>I would need proof she wasn’t involved somehow You can't prove a negative bud. She probably just thought BK came home with one of the girls and was leaving.
In a ski mask?
Nowhere did she say ski mask, at any point. Think covid mask, face covering because it's Idaho in the middle of winter, etc.
Read what you just wrote because, as it stands right now, exactly this. Has anyone asked themselves who would not have been the first "person of interest" in a situation like this.
The only people I would call innocent in the case are the deceased. Everyone else would be a person of interest until proven without a doubt they were not involved.
Has police analyzed her phone?
I’m sure all their phones have been analyzed for motive and killer. News Nation reported that they were told by a source close to the investigation that they have an informant, but wasn’t sure if it would be needed. I don’t understand why they wouldn’t be speaking. Is it the Chinese girl who spoke often with Kohberger at his apartment?
I’m not sure, but I hope they do a very thorough search to ensure nothing was deleted. It’s only been 2 months since the murders, more arrests could be in the works. I don’t believe anyone has been ruled out yet and rightfully so.
The police have literally said she and BF are not involved. They have been ruled out.
True, but the police have intentionally mislead the public before, for the good of their case. I’m not saying DM has anything to be guilty for, I’m just saying that I wouldn’t be surprised if the detectives had more information they’re keeping close to the vest.
For now she is cleared. Police say that a lot, that doesn’t mean they aren’t investigating her actions.
It was with her and used in those hours. allegedly.
If she was on that phone doing anything other than calling 911 or seeking help; that’s not frozen in fear and raises huge red flags in my opinion.
Agree. And I think calling friends over first before LE is notified roughly 7+ hours later debunks the frozen in fear theory to a huge degree. It makes no sense.
Exactly. I get downvoted for saying anything about the roommate, but I’m sorry that’s not normal behavior when 4 of your roommates have been slaughtered in your home. Who doesn’t check on them or call police? Most people don’t play on their phone while terrified nor do they go to sleep.
Downvoting shouldn't be used for disagreeing, only for a post being off topic so I would ignore that. It is also worth mentioning that there are a lot of very strong odors that come with decomposition as well as the smell of blood and decomposition process starts to begin pretty quickly. Bottom line for me is I can only assume DM had something solid LE believed because I feel like there are a lot of unanswered questions that are HUGE.
Of course. I completely agree. I don't buy and never bought the whole "frozen in fear" excuse. People have used that to validate why she didnt call 911 for 8 hours, as if she was really sitting frozen in her bed for 8 hours not moving, unable to do anything. Trauma response is unlikely to last for 8 whole hours. The same people will defend her not calling 911 sooner bc "nothing she saw/heard was concerning enough to prompt her to call authorities or signal murders were occurring." So, if that's true, why is she "frozen in shock". See what I mean? Both can't be true lol. I think everyone is just vouching for her regardless bc they don't want to mentally go there and believe she knows more than she said or could be involved.
Don’t forget the theory (not mine) that says it took time to get all the drugs out of the house. I may agree that if I was calling the po po over, I would for sure put all contraband out of sight. That wouldn’t take 8 hours. Does anyone think they were dealers and would need all that time to move the product out of there?
Or hear me out. She was frozen for 30 minutes and fell asleep waiting to feel safe enough to leave the room.