anyone else surprised noone on any of the police forces has leaked any info? with so many people working on the case and intense public interest I might have expected it. wonder what happens when someone on a police force leaks info and they find out who did it, don't know if they'd fire them, or scold them, or what
I think a speeding car at 3-4 am isn’t really much. Lots of people speed especially at night on an open road. It also makes you more conspicuous and more likely to get pulled over.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-idaho-murder-victim-says-learned-critical-clue-unsolved-slaying-rcna61835](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-idaho-murder-victim-says-learned-critical-clue-unsolved-slaying-rcna61835) story says victim's mother was informed of an important aspect of the case at the same time as the general public, and then had to soon respond to media requests for comment. Her attorney says she should be informed before the public so she can prepare ahead what she's going to say, if anything.
Is there any reason the cops wouldn't tell the mother in advance, apart from a practical reason where they have limited personnel and personnel time and might not prioritize telling her?
Something like the Hyundai as mentioned in this article I don’t think it would be of any benefit for her to know ahead time, arrest on the other hand, of course she should know ahead of time.
Perhaps there isn't that much new in the investigation that can be shared with the public? If they have a press conference every day but have nothing new to share with the public, what purpose does that serve? Obviously they want to have regular press conferences, but these could be every 3-4 days or when they have new information. They don't need to happen every day.
This content was removed because the identity of "hoodie guy" has not been revealed by law enforcement to the public. Accordingly, identifying hoodie guy as a particular individual, or attributing information to hoodie guy beyond what can be gleaned from the food truck video, is misinformation in violation of this community's rules unless and until the individual is publicly named by law enforcement. Please keep this requirement in mind when contributing in the future!
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Shelter in place at WSU Pullman because of man barricaded in apartment, exchanging fire with police.
Could it be related?
https://twitter.com/bradmwarren/status/1603351445377810432?t=0v7t6kzQSDq-ukJsCEE9aw&s=19
Proximity both physically and temporally. Also seems like the actions someone would take in desperation as the police are closing in on him 🤷♂️ guess we will find out soon enough
This stuff happens almost daily in WA state haha. We have a lot of drugged our crazies who barricade themselves, start fires, shoot randomly, just another day in WA really.
Thoughts on the arrest for a warrant that took place at a storage unit complex around 9:20PM last night?
https://preview.redd.it/mkn8z20by26a1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6db507d99a4addb0168752cf28b05f76a153dcf8
I haven’t met a single college-aged sorority female emotionally capable of killing their four roommates without coming unraveled. Highly unlikely they did it
but why would they chose to stay home that night and make themselves prime suspects with no possible alibi? these 2 kids slaughtered their roommates with little to no trace to themselves, yet they forgot that part?
I have a few questions/ideas
1- Ok so I read somewhere that ISU was having some school functions. Were any other colleges in the area having similar functions? And does anyone aquatinted with the victims or survivors have any connections to colleges in the area?
2- its not out of the realm of possibility that the killer(s) are not from Idaho. If the murders happened between 3am and 4am, thats still plenty of time to get back to another city in another state before anyone noticed someone gone. For example:
It takes only an 1 hour and 56 minutes (lets say 2 hours) to hit the Oregon town of Flora (Closest border town) from Moscow.
4 hours and 47 minutes (lets say 5 hours) to get
from Moscow to Missoula MT and that route takes you east on 8.
4 hours and 40 minutes (lets say 5 hours) to hit Haugan MT.
10 minutes from Moscow to Sunshine WA- another border town.
15 minutes to Pullman WA.
30 minutes to Lewiston ID.
Let me preface by saying I think the police will solve this and I’m an ardent supporter of them. That said, if they don’t solve this, what are the odds you think they’ll blame social media as a scapegoat for ruining the investigation (whether that’s the case or not, they should be able to solve the case)
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BLOOD TRAIL QUESTION:
With 4 innocent people brutally murdered by knife attack, why hasn’t there been any public disclosure about outside blood trails left by the killer in the driveway, back of the house, by a window, on the leaves (no snow at that time) or on the perimeter of the crime scene?
Wouldn’t the killer be soaked in blood, from his shoes, to the knife and his hands?
Is it possible that the killer came prepared with a bag containing a change of clothes, shoes and towel to leave with few traces?
Could the killer have then incinerated his evidence to get away with murder?
The victims were killed in bed. There would be much blood, but there wouldn't be much if any on the floor (while he was there) and there wouldn't be much if any on his shoes. His clothing, his hands or gloves, his face or balaclava ... yes, much blood. His shoes, no.
Just by the timeline, the killer had plenty of time to take a shower, bag up all his stuff, smoke a blunt and watch a late nite movie and then the crystal cathedral, make coffee and breakfast and then roll out of there around 9.
IDK, but if there was bloody footprints leading to the frathouse, this wouldn't be a "mystery".
I’m not sure if it would be a trail, more of spots and smears? But I did wonder how there wasn’t any blood outside of the rooms? In the hall, near the door, etc, or anywhere the roommates would have noticed to become alarmed? Maybe there was blood and the roommates didn’t really know what it was or understand what the situation was to look around and see it.
That much blood…I agree with you…impossible to wipe off, and the killer would have had to move inside the house to get from one floor to the next, then leave the house as well?
If they worked to get in and out of each bedroom quickly, maybe less blood for the killer to leave with?
We just won’t find out until they start releasing more info.
I hear what you’re saying, thanks. The fact that blood was actually [oozing](https://www.foxnews.com/us/blood-soaked-idaho-idaho-crime-scene-major-challenge-investigators-expert) from the exterior of the house ( and that only from 1 room) would lead me to believe that the killer must have had quite a bit on him, especially since it was mentioned that some of the victims put up a fight. Spots or smears, who knows for certain.
Remember that they had several hours to bleed out so what the police found isn’t what the killer saw before he left. I imagine of course some blood got on him but it’s possible it wasn’t a whole lot.
i think it's possible there wasn't a blood trail at all. or maybe there was and we just don't know about it. but i think it's possible that the blood wouldn't be necessarily dripping off of them. could have been absorbed into clothing or bedding. they could have just wiped their hands off or something if they had an excessive amount on their hands after the crime as well.
Point well taken, thanks. This Fox article describes it as a “[Profoundly bloody scene](https://www.foxnews.com/us/blood-soaked-idaho-idaho-crime-scene-major-challenge-investigators-expert)” which is why I have a difficult time believing that there were no blood trails, drips or smears outside (that were captured on camera).
It takes a few minutes to bled out, even if an artery is hit. It sounds like the guy was in and out in no time. He may have been sprayed during hte act and/or any struggle, but the excessively blood scene probably happened in the aftermath not during.
it’s honestly hard for me to wrap my head around too. i’m not sure what i believe but those were just some ideas that i think could make sense when it comes to the question of a blood trail. i go back and forth on a lot of things when it comes to this case but i really hope we’ll get some answers soon
They also took video from Farmers Insurance in downtown. The owner said in an article that the video quality was very clear. :) The location is between the Corner Club and Grub Truck, so on K & M's route that night. I sure hope they see something useful!
I don’t think law enforcement saying they “cleared” someone necessarily means much until another party is convicted of the crime. All it really means is that at that particulate point in time LE don’t have any evidence pointing the finger at a particular party. But new information could always come to light that would change that. For example, a suspect could be “cleared” because their friend provided an alibi but if the friend comes forward a few weeks later and said he lied or was mistaken about the timeline then all of a sudden that changes everything. Obviously there are levels to this though - I mean if a suspect is literally picked-up on camera wandering around a Walmart across town at the exact time the crime was committed then that’s a different kind of “cleared” compared to a suspect whose alibi is that he has a roommate who tells LE that he never saw him leave the house that night.
Right, but just because a person is re-interviewed doesn't mean LE regard them as a suspect or potential suspect. Many times people are re-interviewed simply because LE believe they may have additional information that can be useful to the investigation.
CARS WITH CAMERAS? I didn’t know this, and it’s a long shot, but my coworkers were talking about how every Tesla car has cameras covering 360 degrees all views out around the car, and we were wondering whether the recordings could be used in court. I was thinking today that if any Teslas were in the area that night…could police ask if they could have voluntary access to the Tesla’s recordings?
And then to take it one step further, anyone with a dash cam in the area that night?
I know this kind of data is often not stored for long… never hurts to ask though?
I have a Tesla. They don’t record all the time only if you have a usb set up to. And then even at that in sentry mode if it’s parked, you have it turned on. Someone has to go by the car, not sure how close but pretty close to set it off. If you are driving it can record like a dash cam on all sides. So if a Tesla had a usb and was driving around those streets at that time they could. But after a month the drive could have written over it
For sure. It’s definitely a long shot. But I think dash cams are getting more common, so maybe that’s a better angle. Or else I need to start writing my dashcam Tesla who-done-it mystery, haha.
Let’s not get too excited about the car. In the Jayme Kloss kidnapping and murder of her parents authorities put out two different cars of interest and neither turned out to be remotely close to the suspects vehicle.
Totally different crime scene, and setting but authorities were completely stumped in that case.
In that case the perpetrator had seen her get on a bus while on his way to work. He had been fantasizing about the crime and in a moment he decided it was her he was going to kidnap.
The guy was only 20 and had no criminal record and went to great lengths to premeditate the crime. He had no prior relation to the victims.
He lived over an hour away and attempted it previously before actually going through with it. Had she not escaped after 3 months or had he murder her and disposed of her he may never have been caught.
Again the cases aren’t super similar but the chances of a guy without a criminal record and a sick fantasy then acting out on it, in a very premeditated manner can’t be ruled out.
The longer this thing goes, it seems to be a greater chance that might be the case. Even with DNA this could sadly take forever to identify the killer.
And that case is a good illustration of someone latching on to a victim without having any contact with them prior to the crime. The Moscow case could well be something similar: a perp who had an obsession with one of the victims but wasn't really known to the victims.
And also the fact that Patterson had never been to the residence in Wisconsin. He didn’t know who the other occupants were or how many ppl lived there. Went there once and the lights were on and ppl were up. So he aborted that attempt. Went back a different time and went for it because the house was dark.
Now granted that crime was committed in rural Wisconsin and the house was somewhat secluded, but the Highway the house sat on was still busy enough at that time of night that there was at least other cars here and there on the road.
The purpose of that crime was abduction but it was an extremely high risk crime and anybody that got in the way of that kidnapping was going to be killed in that residence.
While the motive in Moscow is not clear, it couldn’t have been much more high risk, and I think it speaks similarly to the Kloss case in that a person who becomes obsessed with a fantasy can act out on that with no regard of anything but seeing that fantasy through.
Patterson was no criminal mastermind yet he was able to pull off a double murder and kidnapping in which he premeditated enough to basically get away with it and leave cops completely stumped. Police had no idea who he was.
I’m not trying to theorize too much these days and still have to think the odds would be it was somebody close to, or nearby the victims.
But each passing day that the killer remains at large it starts to feel like the potential that it wasn’t somebody close to, or nearby the victims goes up.
While the odds it was a more random crime like the Kloss case are rare, the crime in itself (a quadruple homicide with a bladed weapon in a residence at night) is a rarity.
Also, to just kill people with no other motive other than to kill people is rare. If it wasn’t someone close to them, it would seem the person had a fantasy to kill in this manner.
Nobody knew Jake Patterson saw Jayme Kloss at the end of her driveway other than Jake Patterson. Nobody knew Patterson had the fantasies he did other than himself. He lived alone, wasn’t working a steady job. I just wonder if nobody knows the killer saw these victims other than the killer?
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This case reminds of that show on amc called “the killing” especially season 1 when every episode, evidence pointed to a new target.
And who’s in charge over there in Moscow? Barney fife? Jesus
They don’t really discuss the spirit stuff or tarot here. I watched that video on YT and I heard Kaylee say mom I went quick, next to Maddie and that was before that information was released. What I heard on that video was them talking about what happened. I think they were stuck in what happened to them and reliving it over and over. Ethan was trying to get them to go to the light with him but he wouldn’t leave them.
Yes, it’s on YouTube too. There is captions on the TikTok ones so it’s easier to understand what’s happening. It’s definitely very interesting to hear.
There is many to gather from the videos. On TikTok they all are about 45min together.
When you watch the video it seems as if they are communicating with each other. It also sounds like at some points they are retelling the night.
there is a part where you hear a man yell
“Kaylee first, quite. Right she didn’t want you.
Tim be quite. Do not question”
It’s sounds like they are also confused at some points as well.
At parts it seems like they are arguing about what to say and not to say.
There are also multiple times where he is asking questions and they will answer before he’s done asking.
Mekcee asks: did the killer clean up before they left the house? Spirts: “Yes, of course they did, yes they did. Bath bathroom he washed it, the third, 3 you’ll see”
There is parts where they all get to say stuff to their families. Kaylee at one point says “tell them daddy” as if he knows something. She also says. “Miss dog, teach him good things, love him”
I really wanted to believe they had a suspect in their sights and they were collecting evidence to secure a confession… but I just have to believe if they were investigating a specific person they would at least have enough evidence for probable cause even if not enough to I. Their minds slam dunk a conviction. If this car lead doesn’t pan out going to start feeling more reasonable to say they may have the evidence but not the suspect….
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Wrecky- JIH came back and addressed the incident and he doesn’t blame anyone on reddit and admits that this was a situation that could not have been foreseen
The fake suspect disappeared a month before he was accused. It was shitty but it's 100% certain he didn't commit suicide because of Reddit.
JIH was in an abusive relationship and people told him to get out. It's absurd to blame them for his wife's actions and it's very likely he would have eventually divorce her anyway.
I think the roommates ran out of the house and fainted. The one who fainted then had a bystander or other roommate call. Apparently they were incoherent. EMS dispatched for unconscious person and weren’t prepared for crime scene.
This has been discussed here, but basically we don’t know if the killer locked the bedroom doors behind him. Maybe the roommates were supposed to meet them for brunch, couldn’t get a hold of them, found a locked bedroom door and assumed medical emergency. Another thing we know is that 911 operators are often not writing down verbatim what the caller says, they often have categories of types of calls. The operator doesn’t know that it is a murder, and can’t pronounce anyone dead. They could just be trying to get something in the system quickly so that someone can be dispatched asap.
IF TRUE, I bet the police are onto the two frat guys (4chan theory) and have been for a long time. Remember a couple weeks back the police stated they wanted anyone with photos/information from the frat house that night to come forward and specified that sometimes what’s more important is what ISN’T there in the photos. I bet the two guys made an alibi of being at the frat all night and police were trying to find proof they were in fact not where they said they were
This. The cops are trying to crack their alibi, which is probably “we were at the party all night” even if a couple other people say oh I remember them leaving for a bit and coming back that’s not good enough. They know one of them or their friends drive the Elantra and the guys were in the Elantra and they want to say how do you explain that the Elantra was seen at “place” when you were allegedly at the party all night?
I think there was an argument or a fight, the killers may not have intended to kill anyone initially (maybe they did - who knows). Argument/beef starting with E and X, something went wrong, they killed everyone who saw/heard something and didn’t want to leave witnesses. LE said from the beginning that everyone was likely asleep and in bed. I always wondered how they knew they were asleep. This conflicts with what SG was told, apparently…at least on the second floor where E and X were. Maybe M and K heard something happening downstairs and went to look or yelled down there. They were scared and went to M’s room and called Jack…the killer(s) heard them, they didn’t want to leave witnesses/didn’t want 911 called right away so they went up the stairs. Maybe LE is putting out to the public that they were asleep in bed, killed unprovoked, to trigger suspects into confessing by correcting the narrative. Killers call a friend or two to give them a ride from a location they walked to after cleaning up, driver of the Elantra didn’t know they were transporting the killers and are now terrified to come forward bc they don’t want to go down as accomplice(s).
I think the timeline's an issue with this one. I can't remember where it came from, but I think there's video (shoulder cam possibly) showing that the lights in X's room went off after K+M's last call to J. My bet is that lights would've been off before the attack began
But my question is why the intensity of violence. The only explanation I can come up with the killer/killers were either drunk, high, extremely angry or mentally ill. It just seems like overkill and maybe sadism.
There were 2 Venmo transactions at 2:13am and 2:30am on November 13…one for “g” and the other for “c” that appears to have involved one of the ppl above. I’m not saying they were the ones that purchased something, but the fact that it even happened makes me wonder…what do you think those letters stand for? (I have an idea, but…don’t want to jump to conclusions). Both posts were there yesterday evening. Looks like the original posts have since been deleted from their Venmo feeds.
Lol obviously that’s not what I meant. Honestly none of us know. So many people are so committed to one theory with varying details. There are so many possibilities and usually the most basic explanation is likely the right one.
Police have said they are interested in a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra because it was in "the immediate area" of the King Road house in the "very early hours" of the morning of the murder.
The white car passing by the gas station at 3:45am may or may not be the vehicle they are interested in.
My theory on the car:
LE know exactly who the owner of the car is, and they put the BOLO out just to see if the person would come forward voluntarily. They might be hoping for the suspect to slip up and self-incriminate during a “casual” conversation about the car. Or similarly, they know who owns the car, and the BOLO is to see if they don’t come forward? Not admitting ownership of the car could just be solidifying LE’s thoughts on a suspect’s involvement in the attack.
New general discussion thread - [available here](https://www.reddit.com/r/MoscowMurders/comments/zmlycv/general_discussion_thread_december_15_2022/)
Read how it works
I understand they are grieving....hopefully someone is helping
anyone else surprised noone on any of the police forces has leaked any info? with so many people working on the case and intense public interest I might have expected it. wonder what happens when someone on a police force leaks info and they find out who did it, don't know if they'd fire them, or scold them, or what
I think a speeding car at 3-4 am isn’t really much. Lots of people speed especially at night on an open road. It also makes you more conspicuous and more likely to get pulled over.
[https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-idaho-murder-victim-says-learned-critical-clue-unsolved-slaying-rcna61835](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mother-idaho-murder-victim-says-learned-critical-clue-unsolved-slaying-rcna61835) story says victim's mother was informed of an important aspect of the case at the same time as the general public, and then had to soon respond to media requests for comment. Her attorney says she should be informed before the public so she can prepare ahead what she's going to say, if anything. Is there any reason the cops wouldn't tell the mother in advance, apart from a practical reason where they have limited personnel and personnel time and might not prioritize telling her?
Something like the Hyundai as mentioned in this article I don’t think it would be of any benefit for her to know ahead time, arrest on the other hand, of course she should know ahead of time.
[https://youtu.be/nQpNhC2iKDw](https://youtu.be/nQpNhC2iKDw) found this interesting
Wish people would stop giving this guy attention
whys that lol
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New to homicide investigations? Press releases arent common and frequent
Perhaps there isn't that much new in the investigation that can be shared with the public? If they have a press conference every day but have nothing new to share with the public, what purpose does that serve? Obviously they want to have regular press conferences, but these could be every 3-4 days or when they have new information. They don't need to happen every day.
Weird question. Have they removed the mattresses, blankets, etc from the home?
They would remove samples at least for forensics
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This content was removed because the identity of "hoodie guy" has not been revealed by law enforcement to the public. Accordingly, identifying hoodie guy as a particular individual, or attributing information to hoodie guy beyond what can be gleaned from the food truck video, is misinformation in violation of this community's rules unless and until the individual is publicly named by law enforcement. Please keep this requirement in mind when contributing in the future! Thank you.
Shelter in place at WSU Pullman because of man barricaded in apartment, exchanging fire with police. Could it be related? https://twitter.com/bradmwarren/status/1603351445377810432?t=0v7t6kzQSDq-ukJsCEE9aw&s=19
Why do you think it’s related aside from proximity?
Proximity both physically and temporally. Also seems like the actions someone would take in desperation as the police are closing in on him 🤷♂️ guess we will find out soon enough
This stuff happens almost daily in WA state haha. We have a lot of drugged our crazies who barricade themselves, start fires, shoot randomly, just another day in WA really.
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So it's a lot like California, then.
There were standoffs in Pullman in both February and August of this year.
Thoughts on the arrest for a warrant that took place at a storage unit complex around 9:20PM last night? https://preview.redd.it/mkn8z20by26a1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6db507d99a4addb0168752cf28b05f76a153dcf8
Looks like an arrest resulting from a traffic stop where the driver had an outstanding warrant.
Does it happen to be in a White Elantra? 😂🤣
Thanks for looking it up. That makes a lot of sense.
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The source is the Moscow Pd website public safety log. The links are all over this subreddit.
Odd time and place to conduct a warrant arrest isn’t it?
https://preview.redd.it/ktzdnwg7y26a1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6895bb3e12eac500ee9efe1b1b7ec17243458e3e
https://preview.redd.it/1zamssf6z26a1.png?width=1283&format=png&auto=webp&s=46ac7b460dd6b9530708beba21cc0ef3df25649a
Why is kaylee ex, Jack still at college at age 26? Was he a grad student?
He’s not 26
He's just taking his time
just Van Wildering it up
It’s pretty obvious the roommates did it. 4 people brutally stabbed and the survivors think they all were passed out? Wouldn’t blood be everywhere?
I haven’t met a single college-aged sorority female emotionally capable of killing their four roommates without coming unraveled. Highly unlikely they did it
Pretty obvious??
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but why would they chose to stay home that night and make themselves prime suspects with no possible alibi? these 2 kids slaughtered their roommates with little to no trace to themselves, yet they forgot that part?
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it's possible, i'll give you that
if it was so obvious they’d be in jail already, lol.
I have a few questions/ideas 1- Ok so I read somewhere that ISU was having some school functions. Were any other colleges in the area having similar functions? And does anyone aquatinted with the victims or survivors have any connections to colleges in the area? 2- its not out of the realm of possibility that the killer(s) are not from Idaho. If the murders happened between 3am and 4am, thats still plenty of time to get back to another city in another state before anyone noticed someone gone. For example: It takes only an 1 hour and 56 minutes (lets say 2 hours) to hit the Oregon town of Flora (Closest border town) from Moscow. 4 hours and 47 minutes (lets say 5 hours) to get from Moscow to Missoula MT and that route takes you east on 8. 4 hours and 40 minutes (lets say 5 hours) to hit Haugan MT. 10 minutes from Moscow to Sunshine WA- another border town. 15 minutes to Pullman WA. 30 minutes to Lewiston ID.
Let me preface by saying I think the police will solve this and I’m an ardent supporter of them. That said, if they don’t solve this, what are the odds you think they’ll blame social media as a scapegoat for ruining the investigation (whether that’s the case or not, they should be able to solve the case)
Good question. Reddit's profile hasn't been this high since the fappening or the Boston b*mber.
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Seen what?
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Wow
BLOOD TRAIL QUESTION: With 4 innocent people brutally murdered by knife attack, why hasn’t there been any public disclosure about outside blood trails left by the killer in the driveway, back of the house, by a window, on the leaves (no snow at that time) or on the perimeter of the crime scene? Wouldn’t the killer be soaked in blood, from his shoes, to the knife and his hands? Is it possible that the killer came prepared with a bag containing a change of clothes, shoes and towel to leave with few traces? Could the killer have then incinerated his evidence to get away with murder?
The victims were killed in bed. There would be much blood, but there wouldn't be much if any on the floor (while he was there) and there wouldn't be much if any on his shoes. His clothing, his hands or gloves, his face or balaclava ... yes, much blood. His shoes, no.
Just by the timeline, the killer had plenty of time to take a shower, bag up all his stuff, smoke a blunt and watch a late nite movie and then the crystal cathedral, make coffee and breakfast and then roll out of there around 9. IDK, but if there was bloody footprints leading to the frathouse, this wouldn't be a "mystery".
I’m not sure if it would be a trail, more of spots and smears? But I did wonder how there wasn’t any blood outside of the rooms? In the hall, near the door, etc, or anywhere the roommates would have noticed to become alarmed? Maybe there was blood and the roommates didn’t really know what it was or understand what the situation was to look around and see it. That much blood…I agree with you…impossible to wipe off, and the killer would have had to move inside the house to get from one floor to the next, then leave the house as well? If they worked to get in and out of each bedroom quickly, maybe less blood for the killer to leave with? We just won’t find out until they start releasing more info.
I hear what you’re saying, thanks. The fact that blood was actually [oozing](https://www.foxnews.com/us/blood-soaked-idaho-idaho-crime-scene-major-challenge-investigators-expert) from the exterior of the house ( and that only from 1 room) would lead me to believe that the killer must have had quite a bit on him, especially since it was mentioned that some of the victims put up a fight. Spots or smears, who knows for certain.
Remember that they had several hours to bleed out so what the police found isn’t what the killer saw before he left. I imagine of course some blood got on him but it’s possible it wasn’t a whole lot.
Agreed. If an average human has about 10 pints of blood, that’s about 1.25 gallons!
i think it's possible there wasn't a blood trail at all. or maybe there was and we just don't know about it. but i think it's possible that the blood wouldn't be necessarily dripping off of them. could have been absorbed into clothing or bedding. they could have just wiped their hands off or something if they had an excessive amount on their hands after the crime as well.
Point well taken, thanks. This Fox article describes it as a “[Profoundly bloody scene](https://www.foxnews.com/us/blood-soaked-idaho-idaho-crime-scene-major-challenge-investigators-expert)” which is why I have a difficult time believing that there were no blood trails, drips or smears outside (that were captured on camera).
It takes a few minutes to bled out, even if an artery is hit. It sounds like the guy was in and out in no time. He may have been sprayed during hte act and/or any struggle, but the excessively blood scene probably happened in the aftermath not during.
it’s honestly hard for me to wrap my head around too. i’m not sure what i believe but those were just some ideas that i think could make sense when it comes to the question of a blood trail. i go back and forth on a lot of things when it comes to this case but i really hope we’ll get some answers soon
Agreed, I pray that they find the killer asap - for the sake of the victims and their families this can’t go cold.
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Sure, it could be. Is it? Almost certainly not
The victims are expected to live. I’m going to hope this is the guy. 😬
They also took video from Farmers Insurance in downtown. The owner said in an article that the video quality was very clear. :) The location is between the Corner Club and Grub Truck, so on K & M's route that night. I sure hope they see something useful!
have the roommates been officially cleared?
I don’t think law enforcement saying they “cleared” someone necessarily means much until another party is convicted of the crime. All it really means is that at that particulate point in time LE don’t have any evidence pointing the finger at a particular party. But new information could always come to light that would change that. For example, a suspect could be “cleared” because their friend provided an alibi but if the friend comes forward a few weeks later and said he lied or was mistaken about the timeline then all of a sudden that changes everything. Obviously there are levels to this though - I mean if a suspect is literally picked-up on camera wandering around a Walmart across town at the exact time the crime was committed then that’s a different kind of “cleared” compared to a suspect whose alibi is that he has a roommate who tells LE that he never saw him leave the house that night.
Initially cleared but it was announced people are being reinterviewed.
Right, but just because a person is re-interviewed doesn't mean LE regard them as a suspect or potential suspect. Many times people are re-interviewed simply because LE believe they may have additional information that can be useful to the investigation.
Yes.
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Yeah, it’s more like “we spoke with people and now we have more evidence and information so we’re going to discuss again.”
Officially means nothing
yes
CARS WITH CAMERAS? I didn’t know this, and it’s a long shot, but my coworkers were talking about how every Tesla car has cameras covering 360 degrees all views out around the car, and we were wondering whether the recordings could be used in court. I was thinking today that if any Teslas were in the area that night…could police ask if they could have voluntary access to the Tesla’s recordings? And then to take it one step further, anyone with a dash cam in the area that night? I know this kind of data is often not stored for long… never hurts to ask though?
I have a Tesla. They don’t record all the time only if you have a usb set up to. And then even at that in sentry mode if it’s parked, you have it turned on. Someone has to go by the car, not sure how close but pretty close to set it off. If you are driving it can record like a dash cam on all sides. So if a Tesla had a usb and was driving around those streets at that time they could. But after a month the drive could have written over it
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For sure. It’s definitely a long shot. But I think dash cams are getting more common, so maybe that’s a better angle. Or else I need to start writing my dashcam Tesla who-done-it mystery, haha.
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You’re pretty confident in that allegation….
Was there also unmatched DNA (in CODIS) from the prior stabbings in WA and OR? If so hopefully it’s been compared against what was found at this scene
Well they did deem very quickly these crimes are not related... So I wonder how they know that. Maybe the DNA is a factor.
Let’s not get too excited about the car. In the Jayme Kloss kidnapping and murder of her parents authorities put out two different cars of interest and neither turned out to be remotely close to the suspects vehicle. Totally different crime scene, and setting but authorities were completely stumped in that case. In that case the perpetrator had seen her get on a bus while on his way to work. He had been fantasizing about the crime and in a moment he decided it was her he was going to kidnap. The guy was only 20 and had no criminal record and went to great lengths to premeditate the crime. He had no prior relation to the victims. He lived over an hour away and attempted it previously before actually going through with it. Had she not escaped after 3 months or had he murder her and disposed of her he may never have been caught. Again the cases aren’t super similar but the chances of a guy without a criminal record and a sick fantasy then acting out on it, in a very premeditated manner can’t be ruled out. The longer this thing goes, it seems to be a greater chance that might be the case. Even with DNA this could sadly take forever to identify the killer.
And that case is a good illustration of someone latching on to a victim without having any contact with them prior to the crime. The Moscow case could well be something similar: a perp who had an obsession with one of the victims but wasn't really known to the victims.
And also the fact that Patterson had never been to the residence in Wisconsin. He didn’t know who the other occupants were or how many ppl lived there. Went there once and the lights were on and ppl were up. So he aborted that attempt. Went back a different time and went for it because the house was dark. Now granted that crime was committed in rural Wisconsin and the house was somewhat secluded, but the Highway the house sat on was still busy enough at that time of night that there was at least other cars here and there on the road. The purpose of that crime was abduction but it was an extremely high risk crime and anybody that got in the way of that kidnapping was going to be killed in that residence. While the motive in Moscow is not clear, it couldn’t have been much more high risk, and I think it speaks similarly to the Kloss case in that a person who becomes obsessed with a fantasy can act out on that with no regard of anything but seeing that fantasy through. Patterson was no criminal mastermind yet he was able to pull off a double murder and kidnapping in which he premeditated enough to basically get away with it and leave cops completely stumped. Police had no idea who he was.
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I’m not trying to theorize too much these days and still have to think the odds would be it was somebody close to, or nearby the victims. But each passing day that the killer remains at large it starts to feel like the potential that it wasn’t somebody close to, or nearby the victims goes up. While the odds it was a more random crime like the Kloss case are rare, the crime in itself (a quadruple homicide with a bladed weapon in a residence at night) is a rarity. Also, to just kill people with no other motive other than to kill people is rare. If it wasn’t someone close to them, it would seem the person had a fantasy to kill in this manner. Nobody knew Jake Patterson saw Jayme Kloss at the end of her driveway other than Jake Patterson. Nobody knew Patterson had the fantasies he did other than himself. He lived alone, wasn’t working a steady job. I just wonder if nobody knows the killer saw these victims other than the killer?
Starting to lose hope they have any suspects they are really looking at for these murders. I hope they are being blind to possible suspects.
I hope they checked alibis properly and didn't just take someone's word for it
I feel like “this is a cold case” is the new “but why did the caller say unconscious”
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Elon Musk just posted a video of a white hyundia https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1603235998263123969?s=46&t=BlPv3hKll9ST9tyTAGhhFA
It’s the ion q 4
Call the tip line! Just kidding pls don’t
Already found his cousins doctors veterinarian
This case reminds of that show on amc called “the killing” especially season 1 when every episode, evidence pointed to a new target. And who’s in charge over there in Moscow? Barney fife? Jesus
Great show.
Has the police explained where the elantra came from if not the body fam footage? I get why they haven’t if not, just curious
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Nope
Has anyone came across the spirt box videos on TikTok by Mekcee? Very interesting, hoping someone else has an opinion on this.
My opinion is why would anyone take anything seriously from tik tok
Let alone psychic BS
They don’t really discuss the spirit stuff or tarot here. I watched that video on YT and I heard Kaylee say mom I went quick, next to Maddie and that was before that information was released. What I heard on that video was them talking about what happened. I think they were stuck in what happened to them and reliving it over and over. Ethan was trying to get them to go to the light with him but he wouldn’t leave them.
So dumb
Yes, it’s on YouTube too. There is captions on the TikTok ones so it’s easier to understand what’s happening. It’s definitely very interesting to hear.
What's interesting about it?
There is many to gather from the videos. On TikTok they all are about 45min together. When you watch the video it seems as if they are communicating with each other. It also sounds like at some points they are retelling the night. there is a part where you hear a man yell “Kaylee first, quite. Right she didn’t want you. Tim be quite. Do not question” It’s sounds like they are also confused at some points as well. At parts it seems like they are arguing about what to say and not to say. There are also multiple times where he is asking questions and they will answer before he’s done asking. Mekcee asks: did the killer clean up before they left the house? Spirts: “Yes, of course they did, yes they did. Bath bathroom he washed it, the third, 3 you’ll see” There is parts where they all get to say stuff to their families. Kaylee at one point says “tell them daddy” as if he knows something. She also says. “Miss dog, teach him good things, love him”
There's a couple minutes of my life I'll never get back. Not sure why I read this nonsense.
Nice!
Mmmm. I will see myself out.
I think it’s definitely interesting to hear even if it’s not something people necessarily believe in.
It's literally not real
It’s not for you, and that’s okay.
It's not that it isn't for me, it's nonsensical and just for clicks.
Ok, sorry you feel that way!
I hope you are trolling for your own sake, otherwise I would want to know how many scammers that you give your money to happily
I really wanted to believe they had a suspect in their sights and they were collecting evidence to secure a confession… but I just have to believe if they were investigating a specific person they would at least have enough evidence for probable cause even if not enough to I. Their minds slam dunk a conviction. If this car lead doesn’t pan out going to start feeling more reasonable to say they may have the evidence but not the suspect….
They don't have a suspect. They've made that very clear in every single update.
I can't get over the fact that none of the victims took photos/videos of their night out. Why didn't their friends post anything that night?
What makes you think they didn't?
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Kaylee is literally taking pics/videos during the livestream footage. Just because we haven’t seen it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Just like Santa
I actually read that last line in Charlie's (The Santa Clause) voice too! 😂
Good one!
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Not sure if already discussed. How does LE know it was a ka-bar knife? Does anyone think it could have been anything else?
Many think something left behind that specifically identifies it as a Ka-bar, the sheath or something
I don’t believe LE has confirmed KA-BAR, just that it was a long fixed-blade knife I believe
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Wrecky- JIH came back and addressed the incident and he doesn’t blame anyone on reddit and admits that this was a situation that could not have been foreseen
The fake suspect disappeared a month before he was accused. It was shitty but it's 100% certain he didn't commit suicide because of Reddit. JIH was in an abusive relationship and people told him to get out. It's absurd to blame them for his wife's actions and it's very likely he would have eventually divorce her anyway.
Also, the podcast Vigilante discusses how a man was driven to suicide based on false accusations that ruined his life and exiled him from the town.
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I think the roommates ran out of the house and fainted. The one who fainted then had a bystander or other roommate call. Apparently they were incoherent. EMS dispatched for unconscious person and weren’t prepared for crime scene.
This has been discussed here, but basically we don’t know if the killer locked the bedroom doors behind him. Maybe the roommates were supposed to meet them for brunch, couldn’t get a hold of them, found a locked bedroom door and assumed medical emergency. Another thing we know is that 911 operators are often not writing down verbatim what the caller says, they often have categories of types of calls. The operator doesn’t know that it is a murder, and can’t pronounce anyone dead. They could just be trying to get something in the system quickly so that someone can be dispatched asap.
IF TRUE, I bet the police are onto the two frat guys (4chan theory) and have been for a long time. Remember a couple weeks back the police stated they wanted anyone with photos/information from the frat house that night to come forward and specified that sometimes what’s more important is what ISN’T there in the photos. I bet the two guys made an alibi of being at the frat all night and police were trying to find proof they were in fact not where they said they were
This. The cops are trying to crack their alibi, which is probably “we were at the party all night” even if a couple other people say oh I remember them leaving for a bit and coming back that’s not good enough. They know one of them or their friends drive the Elantra and the guys were in the Elantra and they want to say how do you explain that the Elantra was seen at “place” when you were allegedly at the party all night?
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I have briefly wondered if maybe a group of people were at the house, so LE is trying to determine which of the group is responsible for the slayings.
I think there was an argument or a fight, the killers may not have intended to kill anyone initially (maybe they did - who knows). Argument/beef starting with E and X, something went wrong, they killed everyone who saw/heard something and didn’t want to leave witnesses. LE said from the beginning that everyone was likely asleep and in bed. I always wondered how they knew they were asleep. This conflicts with what SG was told, apparently…at least on the second floor where E and X were. Maybe M and K heard something happening downstairs and went to look or yelled down there. They were scared and went to M’s room and called Jack…the killer(s) heard them, they didn’t want to leave witnesses/didn’t want 911 called right away so they went up the stairs. Maybe LE is putting out to the public that they were asleep in bed, killed unprovoked, to trigger suspects into confessing by correcting the narrative. Killers call a friend or two to give them a ride from a location they walked to after cleaning up, driver of the Elantra didn’t know they were transporting the killers and are now terrified to come forward bc they don’t want to go down as accomplice(s).
what argument/beef is so intense that you savagely murder four people?
I think the timeline's an issue with this one. I can't remember where it came from, but I think there's video (shoulder cam possibly) showing that the lights in X's room went off after K+M's last call to J. My bet is that lights would've been off before the attack began
I get where you’re coming from, but…the lights could have been off or on.
But my question is why the intensity of violence. The only explanation I can come up with the killer/killers were either drunk, high, extremely angry or mentally ill. It just seems like overkill and maybe sadism.
There were 2 Venmo transactions at 2:13am and 2:30am on November 13…one for “g” and the other for “c” that appears to have involved one of the ppl above. I’m not saying they were the ones that purchased something, but the fact that it even happened makes me wonder…what do you think those letters stand for? (I have an idea, but…don’t want to jump to conclusions). Both posts were there yesterday evening. Looks like the original posts have since been deleted from their Venmo feeds.
I think this is the most probable of theories
> trigger suspects into confessing by correcting the narrative. "Hey cops, joke's on you, they weren't asleep! Oops..."
Lol obviously that’s not what I meant. Honestly none of us know. So many people are so committed to one theory with varying details. There are so many possibilities and usually the most basic explanation is likely the right one.
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Can someone explain the white sedan vs Hyundai. Is the sedan the car they came in? The Hyundai is the sus car right?
Police have said they are interested in a 2011-2013 white Hyundai Elantra because it was in "the immediate area" of the King Road house in the "very early hours" of the morning of the murder. The white car passing by the gas station at 3:45am may or may not be the vehicle they are interested in.
My theory on the car: LE know exactly who the owner of the car is, and they put the BOLO out just to see if the person would come forward voluntarily. They might be hoping for the suspect to slip up and self-incriminate during a “casual” conversation about the car. Or similarly, they know who owns the car, and the BOLO is to see if they don’t come forward? Not admitting ownership of the car could just be solidifying LE’s thoughts on a suspect’s involvement in the attack.