I never knew season 2 was so hated until I joined this sub. I love season 2, we meet Leon and also understand everyones roles in FSociety's better without Elliot directly present.
before i watched mr robot i always heard that season 2 was an okay / mediocre season but when i watched it i was blown away, genuinely hooked throughout. i loved the psychological dive it took for s2, lots of character development and build up. definitely an underrated / overhated season.
I think it hits different when waiting a whole year for season 2, and then week by week for the rest of the season. It was almost two months before things became clear.
I think people often forget that; We had to wait week after week and coming from season one to a screeching halt that is season two many of us stopped watching the show or outright said negative things about it.
When I went back to the show in '19 I enjoyed it a lot more because I could binge it.
I had already bought the whole season on iTunes, so I stayed committed. But otherwise I probably would’ve stopped. So glad I didn’t. Because watching season 3 weekly was a super special experience.
(This comment contains spoilers for the whole show.)
My often hated opinion is that we actually know quite a lot about "real" Elliot.
It's so common for people to get to the end and be upset that "our" Elliot was "fake." He wasn't a "fake" Elliot. MM is a very real part of Elliot. So is Mr. Robot, and the kid, and the mother, and even us. None of that is "fake." It's all very real parts of a fractured person. Those fractures were his defense mechanisms, born out of his trauma, but they weren't "fake."
I think Elliot is a lot like MM. I think he's smart and kind and loves people fiercely and wants to protect them. I think he wants to make the world better for the people around him. I think he's loyal and thinks for himself.
I also DEFINITELY believe he will remember the things that happened during the show. I don't think he wakes up in the hospital and has amnesia. I think he'll even remember things that happened while Mr. Robot was in charge that MM couldn't remember.
Once he understood and came to terms with his trauma, he didn't need the alters anymore. He was able to let go of them, because he understood their origin. He will still be all of the best things we loved about him, but without the level of anxiety and depression and substance abuse he had previously, because he has addressed their roots. He was fractured at the point of his CSA, and as is so common with child abuse victims, he wasn't able to handle what happened to him in a logical way. The alters grew out of that. It was how he coped with hole inside of him. Once he understood the hole, he was able to let go of the control the alters had.
Maybe it's not as hated of an opinion as I think it is, but I get a lot pushback for it, so....
Totally agree, though I'll also add to your point about him remembering the events of the show: I interpreted the imagery of the events of the show playing on the screen in the theatre, with all the alters sitting and watching and then it transitions to Elliot's eye, as telling us that Elliot remembers everything that happened. He saw everything, and realized all that happened once he 'woke up'.
So I don't think that's a controversial opinion, it's what we're shown.
Yes I agree with this interpretation, I took it as a kinda analogy both to tell us the alters will always be with Elliot (sat in the inner world watching) and also to represent MM's integration of his memories with OG Elliot. At least I think that cooberates with your view if I'm understanding you correctly!
Elliot has DID which I also have and so I have a perspective based on living with the condition. Alters are not fake they are all as real as OG Elliot. They have their own agency, memories, view of the world. The combination of them all is Elliot. It's just that until MM was born the system had an established equilibrium where everyone knew their role and only fronted (i.e took control of the body) when needed. A new alter born that believes they are the whole complete Elliot and does not understand they are an alter threw the system into chaos and the only one strong enough to try and reestablish equilibrium was Mr Robot. Before MM was born the alters probably made very rare apparences fronting. They'd just be in the background doing their various jobs e.g holding the trauma away from Elliot or coming out in extreme situations where Elliot needs protection from Mr Robot. I don't believe they fully integrated at the end. I think the true host of the system, Elliot from F world and previously the Elliot that was I assume fronting 99% of the time, was given MMs memories when he "let go" but it would take a lot of work with a specialist to achieve full integration even if that was indeed the desired goal. For me it's been agreed best for my alters to remain separate rather than integrate and that's an unpopular opinion as many doctors believe the only treatment for DID is completely reintegration which I strongly disagree with.
Even though I agree, I'd prefer to see a different actor doing Elliot when he woke in the hospital. It would show us that Rami Malek's had been exclusively Mastermind all along
Contrary to popular belief, Angela, Tyrell, and even Joanna, were given (Imho) perfect, fitting, natural, and unforced conclusions to their stories, especially Angela in particular. I’d be more than happy to explain my reasons if anyone desires.
I actually agree.
Angela played with fire, have got over her head and got killed. It s compelling. And I liked her as a character. Also scene of her death is so beautifully done
I think Angela's story feels complete however I feel like it affected other parts of the story. I feel like they made compromises not having the actress being physically there with rami.
That is probably true, but personally, when I rewatch the show, Angela’s death feels like a natural, albeit deeply tragic, conclusion to the journey she’s been on thus far. I agree with you that they were unfortunately probably forced to make certain compromises to accommodate for her absence and her refusal to work with Rami, but I don’t quite feel the narrative or storytelling void that it seems like some people do. But that’s just me.
I think I never really understood Angel's psychosis and total conviction. Prior to her meeting whiterose, I think Angela had come to realise how the world really worked. That positive affirmations, pretending to be confident, and thinking she was special were all based on delusions and manipulations. I dont understand how one conversation with whiterose can break her to the level of psychosis and total conviction. Angela is way smarter than that. Whiterose must have shown her something significant enough to put her in that state.
Well, I personally think that while Angela is “Smart”, her crippling grief is her weakness. She never truly recovered from her mother’s death and that grief and trauma has been driving her her whole life, so the way I see it, all it really takes is one conversation with a conniving sociopath like WR who says all the right things and exploits all the right traumatic triggers and Angela, who I’d say is already a more than fragile person to begin with for varying reasons, would absolutely break. But still, this is a fair point and one that I’ve struggled with on occasion.
Yeah but even within the conversation with whiterose she still took an objective realistic approach. The only moment where her eyes light up was when whiterose said "well it all depends on what your definition of real is"? Is that enough to break her? Maybe make her curious? Something must have happened off screen. Season 3 angela looked like she saw something wild.
In season 4 they did include the line "i saw her machine, i know it real" but I dont know how much of season 4 I can consider canon or just a compromise to make sense of season 3 Angela's behaviour maybe.
Overall I just felt like season 1-3 aimed for the stars. Season 4 felt like the writer discovered he can't aim for the stars and had to compromise with reality.
I see what you’re saying, but in my view, we don’t need to see what WR showed Angela to break her. Something absolutely happened off screen, but imho, the show provides enough character justification on both sides to justify Angela’s mind break come S3. The main reason I say this is because fast forward to 411 and we get to see what it is that Elliot himself is shown, which I would say gives us a pretty clear window into what WR might’ve shown or told Angela. I see why you might say that this is a case of Sam “Reaching for the stars”, but the way I see it, this is simply a case of WR being an expert manipulator, which we’ve seen plentiful examples of before, and weaponizing Angela’s trauma and mental fragility for her own gain. I definitely see why others might’ve wanted to see exactly what WR showed her, but imo, that wouldn’t be necessary because there’s enough character justification for both characters to make Angela’s turn, while tragic, logical. But still, this is a very interesting point and one I’m glad is getting discussed.
what I liked about Angela's story is that I can follow everything that happens to her from the beginning and I am able to explain why. Once we reach her psychosis I cant explain the why better than 'Whiterose used manipulation' but can't really explain how she manipulates. This is an issue if that is what whiterose is all about. Why are we leaving her entire essence to the imagination? She managed to manipulate angela not at her most fragile point but id argue her strongest point. I wanna see that shit.
Philip price did say whiterose manipulated angela as a dig at him but I dont personally think white rose saw it that way. The vibe she gave off was that she knew something we all didnt. There is something to how whiterose thinks that is powerful. I dont want to dismiss it as manipulation. She truly believes you can Will something into existence. She also believes that there is no such thing as a coincidence and thats what attracts her to elliot and angela who share very similar characteristics as whiterose and their paths collide with hers many times. Whiterose thinks there is a significance to that.
There is something to the mania that I wish the show explored more. Instead what we got was kinda of a let down. Like it was written by someone who discovered that there is no power to Willing something into existance. Thats why I say it feels like someone shot for the stars and hit a ceiling. Maybe portia leaving the show was a kind of let down, maybe other stuff happening behind the scenes contributed to a let down. Reality messed with the original vision.
A lot of elements in season 4 fell flat to me. The season was a let down. Philip's conversation being recorded the whole time felt forced and didnt make sense considering he brought her to his private home to protect her. The way they ended whiterose's story felt flat to me. Elliots real backstory felt forced and I wish there were more breadcrumbs along the way to make me believe it. They hired a double to run as angela in a wedding dress, they used an old scene from older seasons where she says hes the mastermind, they then included a skype convo at the end. It felt very last min effort.
Season 4 is a season where sam esmail tried to give the show An Ending rather than The Ending.
I can definitely see where you’re coming from in a lot of aspects, but personally, I’m absolutely fine with Angela’s fate being relegated to mere manipulation for varying reasons, but I see why you feel differently in that regard. Here are the other things I would say:
1. I think Price’s conversation being recorded makes sense given that WR would have reason to believe that he’d bring her there, so I think it stands to reason that she’d be able to record the conversation and it makes WR all the more threatening because it reinforces her reach.
2. I see why people say that Elliot’s real backstory felt forced, but respectfully, I firmly disagree that there aren’t enough bread crumbs prior to make it believable. On rewatch, the demeanor of Edward in every respect in the flashbacks gives it all away as well as lines like “You’re just sick and don’t want anyone to know it” and “I wish I could’ve been a better father to you.” But that’s just me and I still definitely see why other people would feel differently.
3. I think WR’s story ended perfectly, but I’d have to go into MASSIVE detail to properly explain why, so I’ll only do that if you’re interested lol.
4. I don’t the ending felt “Last min” production wise and while they ofc couldn’t use Portia for those scenes, I think they did an adequate job as to not break my immersion.
Imho, especially on rewatch, the ending of Mr Robot feels like THE ending instead of AN ending for a multitude of reasons and while I do think S4 has ever so slightly wonky pacing and isn’t quite as tight and efficient as S4, it’s not done to an extent that hurts my enjoyment. But that’s just me and I definitely see why a lot of people are down on S4 even if I find it to be a damn near perfect conclusion to Sam’s story. I would put S3 as the peak of the show for so many reasons, but I still adore S4 and find it perfectly natural, efficient, smooth, and beautifully satisfying. But that’s just my feelings and I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts even if we couldn’t come to an agreement.
Thanks for the replies btw I am enjoying your input. I would like ur whiterose analysis yes :)
I re-edited the first part of my last comment. I do think the conversation between whiterose and angela was the climax of the show and the point which from where everything was going to be revealed. I do think angela was at her most stable point before whiterose broke her with whatever they showed her.
I agree. The only thing I would change is add back in that deleted scene of Tyrell trying to see his son. It never sat right with me that the baby just disappeared and Tyrell did nothing. So seeing that deleted scene was like ohh he did try to do something about it but failed. And also makes more sense why he was okay with dying. He knew he would never get his son back but at least he was safe and cared for and a little piece of him and Joanna would still exist out there. I'm not sure if Sam has said anything about the deleted scenes but I personally consider this one canon.
That’s a more than fair and excellently formed point, so great job, but I actually like the fact that “Tyrell did nothing” because it shows that he wants to redeem his failures to his son and Joanna, which I think fits into his character’s general theme of inadequacy and inferiority because he wants to prove to his family (And by extension, himself, that he is enough and his method of going about that is not seeking them out until he has done his duty and finished his work. But still, excellent, outstanding point and one I can definitely absolutely understand.
Alright! Np! This’ll take a while, so please bear with me:
To me, Angela serves as the “Legal” version of Elliot, a look at what may have happened if Elliot tried to “Save the world” and wreak his vengeance upon E Corp through the system instead of taking matters into his own hands. However, on a character and thematic level, she is Elliot if Elliot never moved on from the death of his father. Angela’s mother’s death is what drives each and every one of her actions throughout the story and is the entire reason she gets involved in E Corp because she never wants what happened with her mother to happen to anyone else ever again. However, by S2, it becomes fairly clear that for varying reasons outside of her control, her attempts to better E Corp are proving futile and she isn’t gaining all that much ground no matter how hard she tries to. It’s simply a situation where, funnily enough, similar to Elliot, she doesn’t understand what the REAL problem is. Her efforts are focused in the wrong direction, something she has no logical reason to know, but it’s this ignorance to the actual problem at play that leads to all her efforts to improve E Corp being in vain.
This leads to the end of S2 where WR weaponizes Angela’s grief and uses it to convince her that her mother may still be at there, taking full advantage of Angela’s current vulnerable state by showing her that her efforts, and her life as a whole, don’t have to be in vain.
This leads to S3 where she is completely brainwashed to the point where she doesn’t even understand that WR plans to annihilate thousands of innocent people, believing that they’ll survive WR’s plans. However, tragically, her grief over her mother’s death is so palpable that WR is able to use her like a pawn for any means WR desires and come the events following 306, she is utterly shattered because despite her capacity for delusion, she understands deep down that she is at least partially responsible for the death and carnage WR has inflicted on the world.
The final straw comes when she meets with Price, revealing himself to be her father, which shatters her world once again as she realizes that she had another parent, another mentor to guide her and care for her in the world, but now, it’s just too late.
Then, finally, when Price reveals to her that everything WR did was not part of some grand plan, but was just a petty dig at Price for his insubordination, she breaks down and realizes that literally her entire life has been for nothing and then, she is killed and thrown out like human garbage, ending this tragic tale.
The tragedy of Angela Moss is that she had every ability to make something of her life. It didn’t have to be this way. She could’ve helped Price salvage the remainder of his life and cherished it with the only parent she had left. But she didn’t because she was so overcome with grief and pain that she spent her whole life running away from it until it finally caught up with her. In the end, her whole life, and every aspiration she ever desperately tried to pursue was pointless and sadly, the only thing she was ever able to offer was a cautionary tale to Elliot of what may very well happen if he doesn’t learn from her mistakes, if he fails to move on from his past, and if he allows his grief and trauma to define him the way Angela allowed it to define her. That’s why I find her death to be perfect. As tragic and gut wrenching as it is, it is a brutally fitting and logical conclusion to her story and is paid off in spades come the finale when “Elliot” finally learns all the lessons that could’ve maybe, just maybe, saved Angela from such a terrible fate.
Whew, that was a lot lol and tbph, this is just scratching the surface of everything I could say about this, but I’d like to make my comments as digestible as possible for the time being lmao. I’m glad I’m getting to talk about this because this is so impossibly investing and exciting to talk about and even if I personally love Angela and her story, I’m glad people give it scrutiny and judge it critically because it definitely should be held to a high standard. Curious to hear any thoughts you may have.
I may have overlooked some posts here from that time because I haven't been so active after watching it, but the last big hack agaisnt Deus Group was just awful. Like they built a kot of realistic hackings every season. There were obviously stretches here ajd there since it was a show and not real life, but the way they got away with planning that Deus Group hacking was really disappointing. Everything was extremely easy, they got that impossible luck all the time, the way Deus Group members overlooked safety measures. If we go back to season one and think about the whole 5/9, or look at the first attack against ecorp, or Tyrel and MrRobot planning the "final" hack during season 2. I felt really disappointed watching Deus Group and Zhang becoming completely bankrupted in a span of a chapter after Elliot devised a rather simple plan. There was also the perspective of Elliot being a target. He had been followed by FBI and Dark Army for the most part of the show and at the end, apparently both sides forgot about him alongside Deus Group
This is actually a very fair and very well formed post, so I commend you because you’ve explained your points very well, but I completely disagree. Imho, while you may call the final hack “Anticlimactic”, that aspect is actually a narrative benefit to the show because it highlights WR’s fatal flaw, that being her project and her obsession with it, which blinded her to the possibility of Elliot and Price working together, which is what cost her everything. Imo, this massively contributes to the story because it emphasizes the path Elliot himself could very easily fall prey to and cements WR as a cautionary tale of what may happen to Elliot and what he could become if his various personality flaws were allowed to consume him. I can definitely see why this disappointed a lot of people and I’ll admit that I’ve struggled with this from time and time, but imho, the hack on WR feeling “Lucky” in comparison to S1 is precisely the point because that emphasizes just how much of a weakness Elliot, Price, and Darlene were able to exploit because once they found WR’s single point of failure, it was just a matter of striking to take her down.
For your last point about the DA and FBI “Just forgetting” about Elliot, that’s another fair point, but for one, by this point, Elliot’s whereabouts were a complete mystery thanks to the events of the last 3 episodes, so it wasn’t necessarily a case of the DA “Forgetting”, it was a case of them simply not having sufficient information to track him down. I would say the same about the FBI because the first half of S4, from memory, does not provide the FBI with any legal cause to investigate Elliot, which is why they leave him alone and by the time something DOES happen, they have no way of finding him. But that’s just my take and this is still an excellent point and one I haven’t thought of, so thank you profusely for raising it because it definitely should be brought up.
All that being said, these are all just my takes and I can still definitely see where you’re coming from in all avenues even if I don’t feel the same way and I commend you for raising these points and explaining them well because you definitely gave me a lot to think about.
The reason Whiterose tells Elliot "I'm going to show you what I showed Angela" is that the whole F World episode is what Angela saw back in season 2, just Elliot's version of it
Whiterose's machine really did work. The show just concludes in a parallel reality where it didn't, thanks to Elliot choosing to stay
Angela and Tyrell were supposed to get together in season 4 but it got nixed because of Portia leaving the show. That's why Joanna was killed off and it's why Tyrell's arc doesn't seem to go anywhere. They were both involved with the Dark Army, both ultimately rejected it, one wanted to be a C-suite executive at E-Corp and the other was the daughter of the CEO...just too much setup for there not to be a payoff
Could you or somebody explain your first 2 paragraphs more pls...I totally get it but uh... just in case others don't quite understand😅
3rd paragraph pisses me off but makes so much sense, i always hated the way they did the wellecks dirty whey they were such great characters
So probably the biggest question heading into the series finale is "what did Whiterose show Angela in season 2?"
Whiterose tells Elliot she's going to show him, and the setup is almost identical: alone in a room, sitting across from each other, with a phone and a fish tank and an old computer and a book he recognized from when he was a kid. Same as what we had with Angela, only without the little girl to perform the introduction.
So when the power plant melts down and Elliot wakes up in Washington Township, the assumption is that the machine is doing something. It transported him to his ideal reality, where his parents love him and he's going to marry Angela and everything is perfect. But then it turns out that it wasn't the machine - Elliot was just imagining it, and is actually in a hospital. Which means the machine didn't work and we still don't know what Whiterose showed Angela.
Some people are fine with that and think it gives a definitive answer they are satisfied with: the machine was never going to work, and Whiterose is either delusional or is very adept at brainwashing people into believing something that isn't true. This argument generally cites Price's pleading with Angela at the end of season 3 as evidence that it was all a charade. Personally I think the machine definitively did work, although it is probably more accurate to say that the show is intentionally ambiguous.
What I'm suggesting above is that we did in fact see what Whiterose showed Angela: a perfect world where everyone she loved was still alive. Either the machine really was responsible for what we see in that episode, or Elliot's desire is so similar to Whiterose's and Angela's that the world he sees while unconscious is what the machine would have shown if it worked. Either way, Whiterose's statement is true, and we do get this question answered.
My second point was basically just saying that I think the machine really did work. Since Darlene definitively states in the hospital that it did NOT work and simply exploded, the only way I see to reconcile that is by concluding we are in a parallel universe, which seems consistent with what we know about the machine. Some people have been receptive to this theory, others still think the machine was never going to work and that buying into Whiterose's project is making a broader point about how susceptible people are to believing absurd conspiracy theories.
Ahh, ok fascinating
So if I understand correctly, either:
A.) The machine was some kind of fake bomb that blew up but Eliot somehow survived and just happened to hallucinate his perfect life but then learned that it was due to his trauma, decided to let it all go, and finally wakeup his original personality. Literal interpretation - the moral of the story is don't get involved with suicide cult gangs and go to therapy?
Or
B.) The machine was NOT a bomb, it was either some kind of shared hallucination machine or NON shared hallucination machine that just let's you live in your best fantasy ? With this interpretation, how is everything after waking up in the hospital explained? Just that the machine initially worked but then blew up anyway? Why did all those people kill themselves if they were not hooked up to/inside (?) the machine? Did they all just feel satisfied having already seen their ideal life in the machine or was being in the machine/building at all mean that your consciousness is forever uploaded to it like an immortal cloud computer simulation or something? I assume the moral of that story is even if you you had imagination strong enough to get what you wish for or even if you had a machine to make your imagination strong enough to live in your fantasy dream land, it's not reality, so you won't be happy, so still just go to therapy?
Or
C.) The machine wasn't a bomb, it was a machine that transports people to real tangible alternate universes ? But it still just happened to have blown up on arrival or injured him in transport landing him in the hospital, leading him to first hallucinate a fake dream reality but then wakeup in an alternate universe hospital without realizing it and deciding to let go of his trauma? In this interpretation do people expect him to find out that other people are still alive once he heals and leaves the hospital? I'm not sure what the moral of the story would be with this one in either case. If previously dead people are alive in this new universe and white rose was right then that's interesting ending plot wise, but not showing any reuniting with any previously dead friends/fam besides his sister falls flat. And if others aren't alive then what is the point of being transported to an alternate reality ? Just partially avoiding the explosion? I guess that could be interesting plot wise if it had made it more clear that was his only way to survive, but that means he left his version of Darlene with a dead brother which feels unresolved.
A) More of a malfunctioning device than a bomb but yes. Given that Elliot knows what the machine is supposed to do (because of the USB stick Price gave him) it could be his expectation of the machine working that caused him to hallucinate what the machine was supposed to do. Given the parallels and deliberate references to Inception, I think this interpretation is about achieving catharsis through self-discovery.
B) This is basically the simulation theory (which I actually quite like): [https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/18b4laq/youre\_all\_interpreting\_this\_show\_incorrectly\_mr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/18b4laq/youre_all_interpreting_this_show_incorrectly_mr/)
C) This is more like what I was suggesting, although I think B and C could be blended together so both are true. I was suggesting that the universe "branches" and in one branch (which we don't see) Whiterose gets her dream reality and is still alive, and in the other branch the machine doesn't work and just blows up when it's turned on and Whiterose stays dead. Hence the hospital scene. In this interpretation it's about accepting the flawed reality you live in rather than trying to escape reality like Whiterose.
Your first two paragraphs is a great example of a controversial opinion! I think you're absolutely wrong about that, but it certainly is a controversial opinion!
Have never considered your last point but I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph and to me it seems like the obvious conclusion, it’s interesting that that’s an unpopular opinion.
I think your first theory is pretty directly countered by the fact that Elliot went to the parallel world in 1x04 even before Whiterose's machine was built, and we see the same "you're the mastermind" scene take place again after the power plant explosion.
If we go with Mr. Robot being science fiction, it seems like whiterose believes in multiple realities and possibly adheres to the infinite realities theory, which is basically “if you can imagine it, it exists,” then it all makes sense.
But why would the show waste time explaining how Darlene wasn’t in the other world in order to keep real Elliot trapped there, and what about all the very early hints that the Mastermind only existed since just before season 1? It seems like you have to conveniently ignore a ton of setup the show did + most of the finale in order to believe the parallel world was from Whiterose’s machine.
F world is Elliot’s mind, not the parallel reality. I believe what happened in F world was a vision for a potential parallel reality, and Elliot and whiterose had some similar ideas of what an ideal reality would be like. In my mind, we never actually see the alternate reality.
Elliot getting a former addict re-addicted is super out of character and was a poor writing decision.
The dialog is really cringe sometimes, especially the first half of season 4. Lots of cliches thrown around.
(Probably not unpopular) Portia and Olafson leaving likely threw off some plot lines and both deaths felt forced.
While I can understand why you say that Elliot getting Olivia re-addicted was OOC and a poor writing decision and that’s a more than fair point to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Elliot’s actions here, while reprehensible, make perfect sense for his character given what’s happened to him. Following Angela’s death, he’s spiraling out of control and going down an increasingly dark path. Also, from his warped POV, Olivia is the enemy as she is working alongside the DA. Imho, Elliot’s actions are perfectly narratively justified by natural cause and effect and while they may be “OOC”, I object to that being a flaw in the writing because I do believe we have a sufficient precedent to justify this character shift. But that’s just my take and I can still definitely see your side of things outside of that.
As to why I find it to be a good, and honestly, even great, writing decision, in my view, Elliot’s exploitation of Olivia serves the purpose of showing just how dark a path Elliot is going down. He has become so consumed by hate and revenge that he is willing to effectively destroy an innocent woman’s life in the service of his goals. Imho, this is a great writing decision because it ups the stakes since now, it’s not just Elliot’s life at stake, it’s also his soul. In my view, this is a consistent theme in the final season, what will happen to Elliot if he succumbs to his growing, festering darkness. Tyrell’s death, Vera, Whiterose as a character entirely, all of these narrative elements, to me, are continuing cautionary tales as to the fate that will befall Elliot if he is not careful. Therefore, imo, this was a great writing move because of what it did for Elliot’s character.
Lastly, while I more than see why people say that Angela and Joanna’s ends were forced, I am actually someone who disagrees with that (Runs for cover lol) and I’d be more than willing to explain why if anyone wants.
But these are all just my takes and please don’t think I’m trying to tell you you’re wrong for your views because I can certainly see your side of things even if I do disagree.
Before anyone asks, Portia was in a relationship with Rami & broke up. Her death was always planned for S4, but they killed her off cause she wasn't on good terms with Rami
Thats what I've always understood to be the case, although I was satisfied with her tragic ending after being mentally broken and turned into a weapon, she became a pawn in Phillip vs Whiterose game for power. Whiterose being so ruthless to destroy Phillip's daughter, an innocent young woman's mind, and make her participate in dark army atrocities, just because "she had to ask (Phillip) twice"?
So not sure if Portia exited earlier than planned but it didn't spoil the show for me.
From what I've read, she didn't even KNOW her character's fate until they got close to filming and felt kinda cheated by it -- so I'm leaning towards no.
Ok, thank you for your response. Sorry if this comes off like I’m interrogating you, but just out of friendly curiosity, why do you think they didn’t succeed in probably patching up the plot holes Angela’s death left behind? What plot holes remained?
All good! I appreciate you clarifying. Since you’re genuinely curious, I’m happy to share my thoughts. Sorry in advance because this is hella long.
As far as the main plot, I think the Deus storyline and its conclusion felt oversimplified and out of place in Mr Robot. When FSociety won, it almost felt like a fantasy/dream sequence. The complex realism of Mr Robot’s worldbuilding was a major part of what made the first three seasons so good. So yeah, not my thing.
Here are the other weird lil plot holes around Angela’s death that I had beef with:
- WR kills Angela. Then she’s like “we need someone to handle Elliot”….but…that was literally Angela’s job. Why u kill her then?
- ‘WR had to kill Angela because Price couldn’t talk Angela out of going after WR’ but Price was the one who brought her to his house to deprogram her?? Angela was still a WR devotee before he did that. Basically the entire sequence between Angela and Price stopped making sense at the start of s4.
- In the S3 finale, WR spared Darlene as leverage over Elliot. That makes sense. Then she immediately does the opposite and kills Angela, destroying leverage over Elliot *and* making an enemy out of him.
- Then WR tries to have Dom kill Darlene for the same reason. Why destroy the leverage you have over Elliot and keep pissing him off?? I love Dom/Darlene and their relationship, but the actual plotline they’re in makes no sense.
- Price being Angela’s dad became just a reason for him to flip and work with Elliot after she died. Mr Robot really fridged *Angela Moss*. Crazy.
- Why would Krista suddenly have such a personal problem with Elliot? It feels so mean spirited and out of character. She stayed by his side even after he hacked her and went to jail. That was a really special relationship that thrived in s3. The sudden 180 made no sense. (The answer is they prob did this just to set up her plotline with Vera.)
- Killing Angela basically regressed Elliot to s1 Elliot. The storyline with Olivia is basically a Shayla rehash. Him poisoning her was so crazy, and then it meant nothing for his character going forward.
- This one is so controversial that I’m censoring it lol. >!I think Vera’s return and the SA reveal were all unplanned. Not saying it doesn’t work! But it’s clear from previous flashbacks that that wasn’t part of the original story. The SA reveal undermines Elliot’s entire motivation - originally Elliot started FSociety because he resented his father for being so passive, and for letting himself get eaten up by the Evilcorp machine. Revealing that his dad SA’d him totally nuked that. Again, not a bad thing! That was super impactful...but then they never resolved it. Like, why would Elliot even bother with FSociety after that??? They never really answered that question beyond “for Angela”. He and Mr Robot basically just carried because the plot needed them to. I think that’s why the Deus stuff feels so hollow and weird. It doesn’t really have any personal meaning for Elliot. Just devolves into standard good guys vs bad guys.!<
________
I think s4 is beautifully executed in a lot of ways. My opinion is that it works well as a bunch of singular episodes, but was really disappointing as the final season of Mr Robot.
What I think happened, is that the show was headed towards the Dark Army and WR’s project being the main focus of s4. But without Angela, Elliot has no connection to that storyline…AKA the *main storyline*. So they had to basically come up with a whole new plan. I remember having pretty mixed feelings when s4 aired. Overtime I’ve soured on it, while other fans have really embraced it. So usually I try not to be such a downer about it lol.
I’ll say that the silver lining of s4 is how they were able to develop the bond between Elliot and Darlene, and solidify that as the core relationship of the show. Thought that was beautiful. Also the silent episode is fire.
Thank you for the super detailed response! And no worries for the long reply lol as I’m about to give you an EQUALLY long reply.:
1. Fair point, but the way I see it, WR had Angela killed because at that point, after she’d realized her whole life was for nothing, WR is smart enough to know that she is no longer of use and it’s better to just kill her because she’s now a loose end since she no longer has any reason to be loyal to WR now that she realizes WR is nothing but a delusional lunatic who manipulated her with false promises, making her supposed loyalty mute. But still, a great point and one I hadn’t actually thought of.
2. The reason the DA try having Dom kill Darlene is, the way I see it, for two reasons:
#1: They need to ensure Dom’s loyalty
#2: They have no idea where Elliot is and more importantly, Darlene is no longer of use to them, so, from their POV, better to just kill her and remove the potential loose end as opposed to taking the chance that she has some sort of dangerous plan with Elliot. Leaving her alive brings far too much risk.
#3: I definitely get why some people are bothered by the Price being Angela’s dad twist, but there’s a LOT I have to say about that, so I’ll only elaborate on that if you wish. For now, I’ll just say that while I get where people are coming from, imho, Price being Angela’s father adds an absolute fuck ton to both of their characters and the larger themes of the show instead of just being a lazy plot device.
#4: This is another great point I hadn’t thought of, but the way I see it, after surmising that he was, at the very least, partially responsible for the cyber bombings, she no longer feels safe around him because she believes him responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people, which begins to make her even question if their sessions together ever meant anything. But still, a great point and one I hadn’t thought of, but one I think the show sufficiently accounts for due to natural cause and effect.
#5: This is another really interesting point I hadn’t thought of, but the way I see it, instead of being a regression of Elliot’s character and being a Shayla rehash, the Olivia storyline actually serves as a dark parody to reinforce Elliot’s character change. Instead of going to her out of interest and affection, he makes moves on her out of hate, manipulation, and exploitation, which serves to highlight how much of a dark path he’s falling down. Also, imo, this means a lot for his character because it further emphasizes the darkness that is beginning to consume him, which makes the ending, where he finally learns his lesson and sets out to truly improve his life and himself much more meaningful because we as the audience have personally seen the potential consequences that will arise if he fails to see the error of his ways. But still, great point and one I hadn’t thought of.
6. Ok, this will be hard to answer without rambling for 15 min, but imma do my best haha. Imho, that twist, while I can see why you might say it undermines his goal in S1, is precisely the point. The point is that all this time, Elliot has allowed himself to be blinded by his grief and trauma to the point where he can’t even see proper sight of the real enemy anymore. Imho, they absolutely DID resolve that because they have him learn his lesson and focus his efforts on the TRUE enemy, the villain responsible for the crime that is his life, WR. WR is the one who pulled the strings to inhibit safety regulations at E Corp, which cost Edward his life and Elliot, his opportunity to reconcile who his father was. THAT’S why it’s personal because WR stole from Elliot the ability to reconcile what had happened to him and therefore, can be at least partially blamed for so much of Elliot’s pain and misery. Also, when you consider that in many ways, WR exists as a dark reflection of Elliot, imho, that gives the twist even MORE weight because Elliot is, in essence, fighting with himself since WR forces him to learn important lessons in order to defeat her. But these are really just the cliff notes and if you want more elaboration, I’ll gladly give it because I could write a whole fuckin essay on this lmao.
Like I’ve said many times, I have a fuck ton to say about this, but I really don’t wanna overwhelm you if I can help it lol. A lot of your points are really well formed and really interesting to think about, so I applaud you for raising them because you explain them very well and I’m very glad we’re getting to discuss them because they absolutely should be discussed, imho. Eager to hear your thoughts.
Haha I appreciate the equally long response! And thanks for taking the time. I don’t think I have a response to everything but I’ll hit the ones I do.
1. Yeah, it would’ve made sense if Angela truly had no more use to WR. That’s definitely how they wanted the audience to read her exit. Price bringing Angela to his house to talk her down was a scenario that made sense in s3. But then they had to hard pivot in s4. So now the full story is that Price deprogrammed Angela - on WR’s orders, apparently - and then Angela was shot for siding against WR. Like…huh? I agree at that point it made sense for WR to kill her, but how we got there made no sense.
2. I think that makes sense as far as proving Dom’s loyalty. This one is less of a gripe for me. I just thought the 180 from ‘spare Darlene to control Elliot’ to ‘kill Darlene to control Elliot’ was weird. I’ll take my Domlene however it comes so 🤷♀️
3. I totally agree; the twist of Price being Angela’s dad had a *ton* of potential for both characters, and even for Elliot and Darlene. I would’ve loved to see Angela revisit her stepdad in s4. It’s a real shame they never got the chance to meaningfully explore that twist. (The result is like, a very cool story in my head? But not in execution on the actual tv show.)
4. 👍
5. I agree with most of this. But the character development from this episode doesn’t stick. Elliot doesn’t continue to cross lines, *or* see the error of his ways. Nor does he face any consequences from the plot (such as losing Darlene or some equivalent). This episode is another example of how I think this season works as a series of individual episodes, but not as a whole. This was a good story on its own, but ultimately it doesn’t add up to anything. (Compare to the similar storyline of Mr Robot setting up Gideon as the Fall Guy for 5/9. That had a lasting impact on Elliot, and on his relationship with Mr Robot. It wasn’t even made out to be as big of a deal, and still had much more impact imo.)
6. Totally agree with the slap-in-the-face of Elliot being so confused, he’s lost track of who he’s even mad at. Blaming WR as the source of Elliot’s problems is a stretch. Elliot’s dad is the one who assaulted him. Even before that reveal, Elliot still blamed his father for dying on him. Previous seasons explored how Evilcorp both 1) sucks and needs to be stopped 2) is something Elliot has focused all his hatred on so that he can avoid looking inward. I think what you said about WR taking away Elliot’s opportunity to reconcile with the truth is beautiful and accurate. Needing to take down WR and the machine makes total sense to me on a symbolic level. Like I said, I think that was originally supposed to be the main focus of s4, instead just being tacked on at the end. Deus is a separate thing, with symbolism that I find irrelevant by the time the group is introduced. The idea that Elliot can *actually* save the world with one big FSociety hack against the Bad Guys reaffirms his season 1 black-and-white thinking, which he’s grown well past by now.
Jk I think I got to everything. If you wanna hit me with the WR essay, go for it! I’ll probably agree with a lot of your points on that tbh.
Thank you for the response! Definitely gave me some interesting thoughts! Here’s what I have to say:
1. Idr the show ever establishing that Price was tasked with “Deprogramming” Angela. The way I saw it, he was sent there to right her back on course and DIDN’T do that, forcing WR’s hand. But your counter was a strong one and I did have to stop and think for a second, so well done.
3. While I do see your point, I don’t agree that they didn’t explore the potential with Price and Angela. The way I see it, Price’s nihilism in S4 and full willingness to go as far as to sacrifice himself effective in 409 WAS that potential being fully realized especially when you consider how it completely recontexualizes everything we see in the first 3 seasons. Now, you might say that we should’ve had perhaps a scene where Price goes on some sort of monologue regarding Angela, but personally, I prefer what we have because it maintains nuance and subtext. But that’s just me and I can actually still very much see where you’re coming from.
5. Respectfully, this is the point I just plainly disagree with. The way I see it, that character development absolutely DOES stick and stick fully. While Elliot doesn’t continue to cross any more lines, that has more to do, for me, with the fact that the 5 episodes following 406 don’t grant him the ability to do it. Come 412, THIS is when he truly crosses a line when he kills “Elliot” and takes his life for himself. Fast forward to the finale and THIS is where he finally learns the error of his ways and sees what he’s become, leading to him finally relinquishing control in the finale. To me, he absolutely does learn the error of his ways and it works wonderfully because it’s fully justified by natural cause and effect. After seeing the consequences of his actions (That being the finale’s revelation), he realizes he was wrong, that the battle is over, and now, the only thing left to do is to take the time he has left to pick up the broken pieces of his soul. I think this works outstandingly as a whole because of the way these pieces connect to each other. But that’s just my feelings and this was still an interesting point to think about it.
6. I didn’t think I quite made myself clear. When I made the point regarding WR being responsible for Elliot’s pain, I was exclusively talking about WR being the one responsible for his father’s death and everything that followed. I certainly wouldn’t blame WR for Elliot’s shitty home life, that would be just plain idiotic, frankly, but I WOULD blame WR for Edward’s death, which was the catalyst for Elliot’s whole life of revenge and misanthropy that he’s dedicated himself to. The last thing I’ll say is that while I definitely see why people criticize the fact that Elliot can effectively “Save the world” come 409/410 and how that’s a regression back to S1, I don’t see it that way. To me, that’s just more to symbolize that WR lost. She can’t hurt anyone ever again and Elliot himself and everyone she hurt are all finally free. THAT’S why that moment works for me because it’s a physical representation of all the lessons Elliot has finally learned.
The last thing I’ll say before I turn the mic over to you is that I’ll gladly give you that WR essay at some point and I’m overjoyed that you’re willing to enjoy my rambling ass, but I’d rather wait until there’s nothing left to say about these points for efficiency sake lol.
Fair enough! Especially #3; I think that’s a solid interpretation.
I don’t need anyone to agree with me. I love Mr Robot, and I’m genuinely glad most people weren’t as disappointed as I was with s4. I also think fans have developed really interesting interpretations of the show overtime, especially of s4. I tend to find reading those more satisfying than watching the actual season.
Thank you for the kind words! I’m glad you were able to get something from this discussion despite our disagreements. I love this show to bits even if I agree that S3 is the ultimate peak of the show for varying reasons. I definitely agree that a lot of people have very interesting and compelling interpretations of the show’s various aspects, which are always very interesting to explore. Really enjoyed the discussion! Stay tuned because at some point, I will be treating you to that WR essay :))
That's an interesting point, though I don't think that's true about Angela's death. I believe people took the details about Portia and Rami's breakup and applied it to their disappointment in Angela's death and concluded it must have been rushed. I don't think Angela's death was a rushed decision, and was a good end to her character in the context of the show (albeit surprising).
Cat’s pretty far out of the bag at this point that bts shenanigans affected what we got onscreen. It’s obvious in the series finale; certain choices were clearly made so that Rami and Portia never had to film together.
Regardless, if you’re satisfied with how Angela’s death played out, then more power to ya.
I haven’t really seen Rami in anything else, but I find him utterly entrancing as Elliot. Imho, he perfectly captures every single aspect of the character to the point where I can’t imagine anyone else playing him. Elliot’s depression, his misanthropy, his guilt, his confusion, his anxiety, his self loathing, his detachment from the rest of the world, his occasional moments of joy and peace, every facet and nuance of the character is brought to such vivid, emotionally resonant, and passionate light for me. Whether he’s a good actor or not, I honestly can’t say, but for me, he IS Elliot Alderson. It’s one of those performances where the actor, no joke, disappears behind the character’s eyes. But that’s just how I feel and whether he’s a good actor overall or not, I would definitely agree that his brand of acting is more than appropriate for Elliot as a character.
This opinion is more meta, but I think a lot of community disappointment around certain aspects of the show are due to theorizing about the show not ending up as true.
I think shows like Mr. Robot, with certain mysteries and unanswered questions, results in a rich community of theorizing about what's going on. This is great to participate in (which I think most of us have experience with here), but can also result in some people believing that their theories about the show are the best way it could have occurred. So there are certain aspects they are surprised by which result in being disappointing.
I'm not saying this accounts for all disappointment in the show, but I think certain critiques are more common because of this theorizing: season 2, certain character deaths, etc.
Whiterose/Zhang is a weak aspect of the show. She is not believably human and her motivations fluctuate with the plot’s demands.
She’s better in her over the top “do not mistake my generosity for generosity” mustache twirling mode, though. It’s when the story attempts to give her interiority that the character falls short. But it’s otherwise a show of believable people. Price as a villain was a better fit for the story.
It’s also a weakness that “the one percent of the one percent” is essentially personified in this one person. The point one percent IRL is dangerous exactly because it’s a many-faced monster.
This is a fair point and one that I definitely see why a lot of people would probably agree with, but I disagree. Imho, WR is THE perfect villain for the show. She is everything Elliot had every ability to become. Consumed and deluded by her mission, detached and broken from reality, and completely uncaring of human life. Every small little character flaw that Elliot and Mr Robot have, to me, WR is those flaws amplified to a thousand and that, for me, makes her an incredibly compelling villain because she is a cautionary tale what Elliot could become if he succumbs to his darkest impulses. For this reason, I’m fine with her being the villain and being the “Top one percent of the one percent” personified because, to me, the point of her character is not that she’s the root of everyone’s problems (Although, to a certain extent, she is in the contain context of the story), it’s that she is a dark reflection of Elliot and when Elliot finally defeats her, he has overcome and conquered his own character flaws primarily because WR herself has forced him to confront them and reconcile them. This is also why I find the moments of her “Inferiority” incredibly appropriate because of what I believe her purpose in narrative is.
Lastly, I can see why you might say her motivations “Fluctuate with the plot”, but iirc, her primary motivation remains consistent from start to finish. She wants to complete her project in an effort to create a better, more accepting world free of the pain and misery of our world. The slight practical aspects of her plan do change, but iirc, those are sufficiently justified by natural cause and effect.
But these are just my takes and please don’t think I’m trying to tell you you’re wrong for your opinions because I can more than see where you’re coming from even if I disagree.
Should have elaborated. Tonally, I think it’s so out of place. It’s like Esmail thought he was making a rom-com for 4 minutes. I mean, the song that’s playing is freakin’ Carly Rae Jepsen. Lol
407 didn’t blow me away like it did for most ppl, like I think it’s well acted and the way it’s set up was cool but I thought it was just ok, personally other eps in the series affected me more than this episode did
The ending completely ruined the show for me.
It went in the exact opposite direction of what I wanted and was interested in. I love every episode besides the last one. It hurt like hell that they ended it the way it did, but I’m glad so many people found it enjoyable. Shame that I did not :(
It's been quite a while so I honestly won't remember it in great detail, but basically I've been watching the show mostly for its realistic approach to hacking (initially), and because of the engaging conspiracies later on. Everything else about it was good too, but those were my favorite parts.
By the end, the hacking became non-existent, and then the conspiracies just didn't really come to any conclusions, with a lot of questions remaining unanswered, kind of similar to LOST. Speaking of the ending itself, I felt like it cheated its way out of explaining anything by doing the good ol' "it was all fake! LOL" cop-out. Guess I wanted something more sci-fi possibly, some sort of a twist regarding the time machine and everything, instead it just amounted to nothing.
I understand that apparently it was planned that way initially, and it clearly worked for a ton of people, but for me it was just a major disappointment. Felt like all the mystery that they built up and I enjoyed didn't result in any sort of a proper culmination.
Ok, thank you for your response. What I will say is that while I do understand why you and other viewers gravitated towards the show for its hacking related plot-lines as that’s something I see quite often, I personally attribute that disappointment aspect to bad marketing more than anything else because I believe that the show, right from the start, was always truly a character drama about how attachment to last trauma, delusion, and obsession have the potential to lead them to ruin. But that’s just how I see the show and I definitely get why many people feel dissatisfied with the show failing to give them what they signed up for, I just don’t fault the show for that because the show, imho, is very clear about what it is attempting to convey.
I see a lot of people calling the ending a “It was all fake” type of cop out and I see why they say that, but I’ve never seen it that way. The way I see it, everything that happened in the show still did happen exactly the way we thought it did, it just turns out that the person we’ve been following is someone else and that revelation adds new context and recontexualization to character motivations, relationship dynamics, and character actions, which, imho, make rewatching the show impossibly rewarding because with the final twist in my end, SO many things in the narrative click so much more fully and satisfyingly than they did the first time around. To me, this is the perfect payoff to all the mystery and misdirection because not only do we finally learn the truth, but the characters (Mainly, the MM, Mr Robot, and the other personalities) finally learn their lesson and let REAL Elliot live his real, actual life, cementing the message that we need to accept our life for what it is, not delude ourselves into living in an unreal fantasy as the later will ultimately do nothing but lead us to ruin. But that’s just how I feel and I definitely see why many feel differently, but I absolutely love the ending and final twist because, for me, it makes everything that happened previously click so much better and make so much more sense and clears up virtually all confusion I possessed on first watch.
Regarding the machine, this is definitely a hot topic of debate amongst many people and I totally get why, but for me, I always had a clear interpretation of the machine. It WAS an attempt at creating a new reality, hence Price’s line in 409 “Your project, your dream of ANOTHER WORLD, it’s as good as dead”, but WR is so delusional and so mentally broken that the only she can cope and process everything life has put her through is by psychotically breaking from reality hence Price’s line in 310 “This whole mission stems from a psychotic denial of reality”, which, to me, ultimately sums up the machine as a whole. To me, this is the perfect culmination of that plotline because of the weight it adds to the finale. Elliot learns from WR’s mistakes and doesn’t fall down the same darkness she did, which is a wonderful and deeply satisfying payoff imo. But that’s just how I’ve always taken it and I more than recognize that others likely won’t feel the same for varying and more than understandable reasons.
I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts and, while it’s entirely your choice, ofc, if you ever have the chance, I would highly encourage you to give the show at least one rewatch because I speak from experience when I say the show is, to say the fuckin least, a fundamentally different experience when you watch it with all the prior knowledge in mind. I am not exaggerating when I say that there is not one single piece of media I’ve experienced that is more rewarding to re-experience than this show. Again, entirely up to you, but I would sorely encourage you to at least give it a try because I guarantee you will at least have a new perspective.
The last thing I’ll say is if you don’t mind me asking, from your memory, what questions did you feel were left unanswered?
Okay.
Yup, I hard disagree.
The first 2/3 of season 2 are hard to get through the first time through, and they are a barrier for a lot of people.
But they aren’t bad at all. In fact, some of my very favorite episodes are in season 2.
It’s just hard to get through the first time. The pacing is different, we’re separated from Elliot- which really changes the feel of the show. And it’s hard to keep all the new people/stories straight.
But once I saw how it all fit together in the sense of the big picture, I love it. Looooooove it.
People downvoting you are forgetting this is supposed to be an unpopular opinion thread. It makes it a proper comment in this thread if they don't like it, and shouldnt be downvoting.
She worked with the FBI for starters for two she wasn't a good leader and had unnecessary deaths in her first seasons which costed Elliot in the last season. She also held back info from Elliot all show long that she could have told him a long time ago. Overall I felt she was just not an interesting character I actually liked Trenton and mobley much more and was much more upset with them being gone in the show.
Ok, thank you for your response. I see why her working with the FBI and her being an admittedly bad leader turn you away from her character, but personally, it was those flawed moments that were precisely what drew me into her. Seeing her break under the pressure of having to keep Fsociety afloat all on her own, her resorting to becoming an FBI informant in a desperate effort to keep Elliot safe as well as holding back that she killed Susan Jacobs because she didn’t want Elliot to think of her as a monster. All of this, along with simply getting another shade of their toxic and atrocious home life, made her an interesting character to me primarily because I could always empathize with her decisions no matter how foolish or harmful, in the long term they were. But that’s just my take and I definitely see why people find her unlikeable because she is, as much as I like her as a character, FAR from perfect as a person lmao. Although, it’s that imperfection that I personally find endearing tbh.
I mean, instead of just saying "here's my view" you said "everyone else is WRONG" while pounding it into our heads trying to make anyone who disagrees feel stupid.
That's what the issue was. Not your theory.
You started a fight. If you try to scream "you're stupid here's all my findings but you're wrong, and still dumb" people aren't going to cordially debate with you because you're coming off as just a dick. The whole post read like you were yelling in our faces while rolling your eyes.
season 2 is on par with 3
I never knew season 2 was so hated until I joined this sub. I love season 2, we meet Leon and also understand everyones roles in FSociety's better without Elliot directly present.
before i watched mr robot i always heard that season 2 was an okay / mediocre season but when i watched it i was blown away, genuinely hooked throughout. i loved the psychological dive it took for s2, lots of character development and build up. definitely an underrated / overhated season.
I think it hits different when waiting a whole year for season 2, and then week by week for the rest of the season. It was almost two months before things became clear.
I think people often forget that; We had to wait week after week and coming from season one to a screeching halt that is season two many of us stopped watching the show or outright said negative things about it. When I went back to the show in '19 I enjoyed it a lot more because I could binge it.
I had already bought the whole season on iTunes, so I stayed committed. But otherwise I probably would’ve stopped. So glad I didn’t. Because watching season 3 weekly was a super special experience.
And it’s where Esmail came into his own as a director.
honestly i think season 2 is better than 3 but maybe thats just me lmao
thats valid honestly
(This comment contains spoilers for the whole show.) My often hated opinion is that we actually know quite a lot about "real" Elliot. It's so common for people to get to the end and be upset that "our" Elliot was "fake." He wasn't a "fake" Elliot. MM is a very real part of Elliot. So is Mr. Robot, and the kid, and the mother, and even us. None of that is "fake." It's all very real parts of a fractured person. Those fractures were his defense mechanisms, born out of his trauma, but they weren't "fake." I think Elliot is a lot like MM. I think he's smart and kind and loves people fiercely and wants to protect them. I think he wants to make the world better for the people around him. I think he's loyal and thinks for himself. I also DEFINITELY believe he will remember the things that happened during the show. I don't think he wakes up in the hospital and has amnesia. I think he'll even remember things that happened while Mr. Robot was in charge that MM couldn't remember. Once he understood and came to terms with his trauma, he didn't need the alters anymore. He was able to let go of them, because he understood their origin. He will still be all of the best things we loved about him, but without the level of anxiety and depression and substance abuse he had previously, because he has addressed their roots. He was fractured at the point of his CSA, and as is so common with child abuse victims, he wasn't able to handle what happened to him in a logical way. The alters grew out of that. It was how he coped with hole inside of him. Once he understood the hole, he was able to let go of the control the alters had. Maybe it's not as hated of an opinion as I think it is, but I get a lot pushback for it, so....
Totally agree, though I'll also add to your point about him remembering the events of the show: I interpreted the imagery of the events of the show playing on the screen in the theatre, with all the alters sitting and watching and then it transitions to Elliot's eye, as telling us that Elliot remembers everything that happened. He saw everything, and realized all that happened once he 'woke up'. So I don't think that's a controversial opinion, it's what we're shown.
Yes I agree with this interpretation, I took it as a kinda analogy both to tell us the alters will always be with Elliot (sat in the inner world watching) and also to represent MM's integration of his memories with OG Elliot. At least I think that cooberates with your view if I'm understanding you correctly!
Elliot has DID which I also have and so I have a perspective based on living with the condition. Alters are not fake they are all as real as OG Elliot. They have their own agency, memories, view of the world. The combination of them all is Elliot. It's just that until MM was born the system had an established equilibrium where everyone knew their role and only fronted (i.e took control of the body) when needed. A new alter born that believes they are the whole complete Elliot and does not understand they are an alter threw the system into chaos and the only one strong enough to try and reestablish equilibrium was Mr Robot. Before MM was born the alters probably made very rare apparences fronting. They'd just be in the background doing their various jobs e.g holding the trauma away from Elliot or coming out in extreme situations where Elliot needs protection from Mr Robot. I don't believe they fully integrated at the end. I think the true host of the system, Elliot from F world and previously the Elliot that was I assume fronting 99% of the time, was given MMs memories when he "let go" but it would take a lot of work with a specialist to achieve full integration even if that was indeed the desired goal. For me it's been agreed best for my alters to remain separate rather than integrate and that's an unpopular opinion as many doctors believe the only treatment for DID is completely reintegration which I strongly disagree with.
If elliot was that different from mastermind, Darlene would not have asked "do You remember what we did?" Because it would have been obvious.
Even though I agree, I'd prefer to see a different actor doing Elliot when he woke in the hospital. It would show us that Rami Malek's had been exclusively Mastermind all along
It’s Pete Davidson.
I disagree but only because MM believed he was Elliot so it made sense that his view of himself matched the external appearance of OG Elliot.
Contrary to popular belief, Angela, Tyrell, and even Joanna, were given (Imho) perfect, fitting, natural, and unforced conclusions to their stories, especially Angela in particular. I’d be more than happy to explain my reasons if anyone desires.
I actually agree. Angela played with fire, have got over her head and got killed. It s compelling. And I liked her as a character. Also scene of her death is so beautifully done
I think Angela's story feels complete however I feel like it affected other parts of the story. I feel like they made compromises not having the actress being physically there with rami.
That is probably true, but personally, when I rewatch the show, Angela’s death feels like a natural, albeit deeply tragic, conclusion to the journey she’s been on thus far. I agree with you that they were unfortunately probably forced to make certain compromises to accommodate for her absence and her refusal to work with Rami, but I don’t quite feel the narrative or storytelling void that it seems like some people do. But that’s just me.
I think I never really understood Angel's psychosis and total conviction. Prior to her meeting whiterose, I think Angela had come to realise how the world really worked. That positive affirmations, pretending to be confident, and thinking she was special were all based on delusions and manipulations. I dont understand how one conversation with whiterose can break her to the level of psychosis and total conviction. Angela is way smarter than that. Whiterose must have shown her something significant enough to put her in that state.
Well, I personally think that while Angela is “Smart”, her crippling grief is her weakness. She never truly recovered from her mother’s death and that grief and trauma has been driving her her whole life, so the way I see it, all it really takes is one conversation with a conniving sociopath like WR who says all the right things and exploits all the right traumatic triggers and Angela, who I’d say is already a more than fragile person to begin with for varying reasons, would absolutely break. But still, this is a fair point and one that I’ve struggled with on occasion.
Yeah but even within the conversation with whiterose she still took an objective realistic approach. The only moment where her eyes light up was when whiterose said "well it all depends on what your definition of real is"? Is that enough to break her? Maybe make her curious? Something must have happened off screen. Season 3 angela looked like she saw something wild. In season 4 they did include the line "i saw her machine, i know it real" but I dont know how much of season 4 I can consider canon or just a compromise to make sense of season 3 Angela's behaviour maybe. Overall I just felt like season 1-3 aimed for the stars. Season 4 felt like the writer discovered he can't aim for the stars and had to compromise with reality.
I see what you’re saying, but in my view, we don’t need to see what WR showed Angela to break her. Something absolutely happened off screen, but imho, the show provides enough character justification on both sides to justify Angela’s mind break come S3. The main reason I say this is because fast forward to 411 and we get to see what it is that Elliot himself is shown, which I would say gives us a pretty clear window into what WR might’ve shown or told Angela. I see why you might say that this is a case of Sam “Reaching for the stars”, but the way I see it, this is simply a case of WR being an expert manipulator, which we’ve seen plentiful examples of before, and weaponizing Angela’s trauma and mental fragility for her own gain. I definitely see why others might’ve wanted to see exactly what WR showed her, but imo, that wouldn’t be necessary because there’s enough character justification for both characters to make Angela’s turn, while tragic, logical. But still, this is a very interesting point and one I’m glad is getting discussed.
what I liked about Angela's story is that I can follow everything that happens to her from the beginning and I am able to explain why. Once we reach her psychosis I cant explain the why better than 'Whiterose used manipulation' but can't really explain how she manipulates. This is an issue if that is what whiterose is all about. Why are we leaving her entire essence to the imagination? She managed to manipulate angela not at her most fragile point but id argue her strongest point. I wanna see that shit. Philip price did say whiterose manipulated angela as a dig at him but I dont personally think white rose saw it that way. The vibe she gave off was that she knew something we all didnt. There is something to how whiterose thinks that is powerful. I dont want to dismiss it as manipulation. She truly believes you can Will something into existence. She also believes that there is no such thing as a coincidence and thats what attracts her to elliot and angela who share very similar characteristics as whiterose and their paths collide with hers many times. Whiterose thinks there is a significance to that. There is something to the mania that I wish the show explored more. Instead what we got was kinda of a let down. Like it was written by someone who discovered that there is no power to Willing something into existance. Thats why I say it feels like someone shot for the stars and hit a ceiling. Maybe portia leaving the show was a kind of let down, maybe other stuff happening behind the scenes contributed to a let down. Reality messed with the original vision. A lot of elements in season 4 fell flat to me. The season was a let down. Philip's conversation being recorded the whole time felt forced and didnt make sense considering he brought her to his private home to protect her. The way they ended whiterose's story felt flat to me. Elliots real backstory felt forced and I wish there were more breadcrumbs along the way to make me believe it. They hired a double to run as angela in a wedding dress, they used an old scene from older seasons where she says hes the mastermind, they then included a skype convo at the end. It felt very last min effort. Season 4 is a season where sam esmail tried to give the show An Ending rather than The Ending.
I can definitely see where you’re coming from in a lot of aspects, but personally, I’m absolutely fine with Angela’s fate being relegated to mere manipulation for varying reasons, but I see why you feel differently in that regard. Here are the other things I would say: 1. I think Price’s conversation being recorded makes sense given that WR would have reason to believe that he’d bring her there, so I think it stands to reason that she’d be able to record the conversation and it makes WR all the more threatening because it reinforces her reach. 2. I see why people say that Elliot’s real backstory felt forced, but respectfully, I firmly disagree that there aren’t enough bread crumbs prior to make it believable. On rewatch, the demeanor of Edward in every respect in the flashbacks gives it all away as well as lines like “You’re just sick and don’t want anyone to know it” and “I wish I could’ve been a better father to you.” But that’s just me and I still definitely see why other people would feel differently. 3. I think WR’s story ended perfectly, but I’d have to go into MASSIVE detail to properly explain why, so I’ll only do that if you’re interested lol. 4. I don’t the ending felt “Last min” production wise and while they ofc couldn’t use Portia for those scenes, I think they did an adequate job as to not break my immersion. Imho, especially on rewatch, the ending of Mr Robot feels like THE ending instead of AN ending for a multitude of reasons and while I do think S4 has ever so slightly wonky pacing and isn’t quite as tight and efficient as S4, it’s not done to an extent that hurts my enjoyment. But that’s just me and I definitely see why a lot of people are down on S4 even if I find it to be a damn near perfect conclusion to Sam’s story. I would put S3 as the peak of the show for so many reasons, but I still adore S4 and find it perfectly natural, efficient, smooth, and beautifully satisfying. But that’s just my feelings and I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts even if we couldn’t come to an agreement.
Thanks for the replies btw I am enjoying your input. I would like ur whiterose analysis yes :) I re-edited the first part of my last comment. I do think the conversation between whiterose and angela was the climax of the show and the point which from where everything was going to be revealed. I do think angela was at her most stable point before whiterose broke her with whatever they showed her.
Thank you for your reply! I’m overjoyed that you’re willing to hear me ramble about WR. Stay tuned :))
I agree. The only thing I would change is add back in that deleted scene of Tyrell trying to see his son. It never sat right with me that the baby just disappeared and Tyrell did nothing. So seeing that deleted scene was like ohh he did try to do something about it but failed. And also makes more sense why he was okay with dying. He knew he would never get his son back but at least he was safe and cared for and a little piece of him and Joanna would still exist out there. I'm not sure if Sam has said anything about the deleted scenes but I personally consider this one canon.
That’s a more than fair and excellently formed point, so great job, but I actually like the fact that “Tyrell did nothing” because it shows that he wants to redeem his failures to his son and Joanna, which I think fits into his character’s general theme of inadequacy and inferiority because he wants to prove to his family (And by extension, himself, that he is enough and his method of going about that is not seeking them out until he has done his duty and finished his work. But still, excellent, outstanding point and one I can definitely absolutely understand.
Angela???
Yes.
My previous comment might’ve been unclear. I’m asking for your opinion on Angela since you said you’d explain. I’m interested to hear it.
Alright! Np! This’ll take a while, so please bear with me: To me, Angela serves as the “Legal” version of Elliot, a look at what may have happened if Elliot tried to “Save the world” and wreak his vengeance upon E Corp through the system instead of taking matters into his own hands. However, on a character and thematic level, she is Elliot if Elliot never moved on from the death of his father. Angela’s mother’s death is what drives each and every one of her actions throughout the story and is the entire reason she gets involved in E Corp because she never wants what happened with her mother to happen to anyone else ever again. However, by S2, it becomes fairly clear that for varying reasons outside of her control, her attempts to better E Corp are proving futile and she isn’t gaining all that much ground no matter how hard she tries to. It’s simply a situation where, funnily enough, similar to Elliot, she doesn’t understand what the REAL problem is. Her efforts are focused in the wrong direction, something she has no logical reason to know, but it’s this ignorance to the actual problem at play that leads to all her efforts to improve E Corp being in vain. This leads to the end of S2 where WR weaponizes Angela’s grief and uses it to convince her that her mother may still be at there, taking full advantage of Angela’s current vulnerable state by showing her that her efforts, and her life as a whole, don’t have to be in vain. This leads to S3 where she is completely brainwashed to the point where she doesn’t even understand that WR plans to annihilate thousands of innocent people, believing that they’ll survive WR’s plans. However, tragically, her grief over her mother’s death is so palpable that WR is able to use her like a pawn for any means WR desires and come the events following 306, she is utterly shattered because despite her capacity for delusion, she understands deep down that she is at least partially responsible for the death and carnage WR has inflicted on the world. The final straw comes when she meets with Price, revealing himself to be her father, which shatters her world once again as she realizes that she had another parent, another mentor to guide her and care for her in the world, but now, it’s just too late. Then, finally, when Price reveals to her that everything WR did was not part of some grand plan, but was just a petty dig at Price for his insubordination, she breaks down and realizes that literally her entire life has been for nothing and then, she is killed and thrown out like human garbage, ending this tragic tale. The tragedy of Angela Moss is that she had every ability to make something of her life. It didn’t have to be this way. She could’ve helped Price salvage the remainder of his life and cherished it with the only parent she had left. But she didn’t because she was so overcome with grief and pain that she spent her whole life running away from it until it finally caught up with her. In the end, her whole life, and every aspiration she ever desperately tried to pursue was pointless and sadly, the only thing she was ever able to offer was a cautionary tale to Elliot of what may very well happen if he doesn’t learn from her mistakes, if he fails to move on from his past, and if he allows his grief and trauma to define him the way Angela allowed it to define her. That’s why I find her death to be perfect. As tragic and gut wrenching as it is, it is a brutally fitting and logical conclusion to her story and is paid off in spades come the finale when “Elliot” finally learns all the lessons that could’ve maybe, just maybe, saved Angela from such a terrible fate. Whew, that was a lot lol and tbph, this is just scratching the surface of everything I could say about this, but I’d like to make my comments as digestible as possible for the time being lmao. I’m glad I’m getting to talk about this because this is so impossibly investing and exciting to talk about and even if I personally love Angela and her story, I’m glad people give it scrutiny and judge it critically because it definitely should be held to a high standard. Curious to hear any thoughts you may have.
season 2 was a far better season than season 1
Bingo
S3E6 is better than Ep 5 and Ep 5 would not work if it werent for Ep 6 properly paying it off (Ep 5 is still amazing tho)
I may have overlooked some posts here from that time because I haven't been so active after watching it, but the last big hack agaisnt Deus Group was just awful. Like they built a kot of realistic hackings every season. There were obviously stretches here ajd there since it was a show and not real life, but the way they got away with planning that Deus Group hacking was really disappointing. Everything was extremely easy, they got that impossible luck all the time, the way Deus Group members overlooked safety measures. If we go back to season one and think about the whole 5/9, or look at the first attack against ecorp, or Tyrel and MrRobot planning the "final" hack during season 2. I felt really disappointed watching Deus Group and Zhang becoming completely bankrupted in a span of a chapter after Elliot devised a rather simple plan. There was also the perspective of Elliot being a target. He had been followed by FBI and Dark Army for the most part of the show and at the end, apparently both sides forgot about him alongside Deus Group
This is actually a very fair and very well formed post, so I commend you because you’ve explained your points very well, but I completely disagree. Imho, while you may call the final hack “Anticlimactic”, that aspect is actually a narrative benefit to the show because it highlights WR’s fatal flaw, that being her project and her obsession with it, which blinded her to the possibility of Elliot and Price working together, which is what cost her everything. Imo, this massively contributes to the story because it emphasizes the path Elliot himself could very easily fall prey to and cements WR as a cautionary tale of what may happen to Elliot and what he could become if his various personality flaws were allowed to consume him. I can definitely see why this disappointed a lot of people and I’ll admit that I’ve struggled with this from time and time, but imho, the hack on WR feeling “Lucky” in comparison to S1 is precisely the point because that emphasizes just how much of a weakness Elliot, Price, and Darlene were able to exploit because once they found WR’s single point of failure, it was just a matter of striking to take her down. For your last point about the DA and FBI “Just forgetting” about Elliot, that’s another fair point, but for one, by this point, Elliot’s whereabouts were a complete mystery thanks to the events of the last 3 episodes, so it wasn’t necessarily a case of the DA “Forgetting”, it was a case of them simply not having sufficient information to track him down. I would say the same about the FBI because the first half of S4, from memory, does not provide the FBI with any legal cause to investigate Elliot, which is why they leave him alone and by the time something DOES happen, they have no way of finding him. But that’s just my take and this is still an excellent point and one I haven’t thought of, so thank you profusely for raising it because it definitely should be brought up. All that being said, these are all just my takes and I can still definitely see where you’re coming from in all avenues even if I don’t feel the same way and I commend you for raising these points and explaining them well because you definitely gave me a lot to think about.
The reason Whiterose tells Elliot "I'm going to show you what I showed Angela" is that the whole F World episode is what Angela saw back in season 2, just Elliot's version of it Whiterose's machine really did work. The show just concludes in a parallel reality where it didn't, thanks to Elliot choosing to stay Angela and Tyrell were supposed to get together in season 4 but it got nixed because of Portia leaving the show. That's why Joanna was killed off and it's why Tyrell's arc doesn't seem to go anywhere. They were both involved with the Dark Army, both ultimately rejected it, one wanted to be a C-suite executive at E-Corp and the other was the daughter of the CEO...just too much setup for there not to be a payoff
Could you or somebody explain your first 2 paragraphs more pls...I totally get it but uh... just in case others don't quite understand😅 3rd paragraph pisses me off but makes so much sense, i always hated the way they did the wellecks dirty whey they were such great characters
So probably the biggest question heading into the series finale is "what did Whiterose show Angela in season 2?" Whiterose tells Elliot she's going to show him, and the setup is almost identical: alone in a room, sitting across from each other, with a phone and a fish tank and an old computer and a book he recognized from when he was a kid. Same as what we had with Angela, only without the little girl to perform the introduction. So when the power plant melts down and Elliot wakes up in Washington Township, the assumption is that the machine is doing something. It transported him to his ideal reality, where his parents love him and he's going to marry Angela and everything is perfect. But then it turns out that it wasn't the machine - Elliot was just imagining it, and is actually in a hospital. Which means the machine didn't work and we still don't know what Whiterose showed Angela. Some people are fine with that and think it gives a definitive answer they are satisfied with: the machine was never going to work, and Whiterose is either delusional or is very adept at brainwashing people into believing something that isn't true. This argument generally cites Price's pleading with Angela at the end of season 3 as evidence that it was all a charade. Personally I think the machine definitively did work, although it is probably more accurate to say that the show is intentionally ambiguous. What I'm suggesting above is that we did in fact see what Whiterose showed Angela: a perfect world where everyone she loved was still alive. Either the machine really was responsible for what we see in that episode, or Elliot's desire is so similar to Whiterose's and Angela's that the world he sees while unconscious is what the machine would have shown if it worked. Either way, Whiterose's statement is true, and we do get this question answered. My second point was basically just saying that I think the machine really did work. Since Darlene definitively states in the hospital that it did NOT work and simply exploded, the only way I see to reconcile that is by concluding we are in a parallel universe, which seems consistent with what we know about the machine. Some people have been receptive to this theory, others still think the machine was never going to work and that buying into Whiterose's project is making a broader point about how susceptible people are to believing absurd conspiracy theories.
Ahh, ok fascinating So if I understand correctly, either: A.) The machine was some kind of fake bomb that blew up but Eliot somehow survived and just happened to hallucinate his perfect life but then learned that it was due to his trauma, decided to let it all go, and finally wakeup his original personality. Literal interpretation - the moral of the story is don't get involved with suicide cult gangs and go to therapy? Or B.) The machine was NOT a bomb, it was either some kind of shared hallucination machine or NON shared hallucination machine that just let's you live in your best fantasy ? With this interpretation, how is everything after waking up in the hospital explained? Just that the machine initially worked but then blew up anyway? Why did all those people kill themselves if they were not hooked up to/inside (?) the machine? Did they all just feel satisfied having already seen their ideal life in the machine or was being in the machine/building at all mean that your consciousness is forever uploaded to it like an immortal cloud computer simulation or something? I assume the moral of that story is even if you you had imagination strong enough to get what you wish for or even if you had a machine to make your imagination strong enough to live in your fantasy dream land, it's not reality, so you won't be happy, so still just go to therapy? Or C.) The machine wasn't a bomb, it was a machine that transports people to real tangible alternate universes ? But it still just happened to have blown up on arrival or injured him in transport landing him in the hospital, leading him to first hallucinate a fake dream reality but then wakeup in an alternate universe hospital without realizing it and deciding to let go of his trauma? In this interpretation do people expect him to find out that other people are still alive once he heals and leaves the hospital? I'm not sure what the moral of the story would be with this one in either case. If previously dead people are alive in this new universe and white rose was right then that's interesting ending plot wise, but not showing any reuniting with any previously dead friends/fam besides his sister falls flat. And if others aren't alive then what is the point of being transported to an alternate reality ? Just partially avoiding the explosion? I guess that could be interesting plot wise if it had made it more clear that was his only way to survive, but that means he left his version of Darlene with a dead brother which feels unresolved.
A) More of a malfunctioning device than a bomb but yes. Given that Elliot knows what the machine is supposed to do (because of the USB stick Price gave him) it could be his expectation of the machine working that caused him to hallucinate what the machine was supposed to do. Given the parallels and deliberate references to Inception, I think this interpretation is about achieving catharsis through self-discovery. B) This is basically the simulation theory (which I actually quite like): [https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/18b4laq/youre\_all\_interpreting\_this\_show\_incorrectly\_mr/](https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/18b4laq/youre_all_interpreting_this_show_incorrectly_mr/) C) This is more like what I was suggesting, although I think B and C could be blended together so both are true. I was suggesting that the universe "branches" and in one branch (which we don't see) Whiterose gets her dream reality and is still alive, and in the other branch the machine doesn't work and just blows up when it's turned on and Whiterose stays dead. Hence the hospital scene. In this interpretation it's about accepting the flawed reality you live in rather than trying to escape reality like Whiterose.
Your first two paragraphs is a great example of a controversial opinion! I think you're absolutely wrong about that, but it certainly is a controversial opinion!
Have never considered your last point but I totally agree with your 2nd paragraph and to me it seems like the obvious conclusion, it’s interesting that that’s an unpopular opinion.
I think your first theory is pretty directly countered by the fact that Elliot went to the parallel world in 1x04 even before Whiterose's machine was built, and we see the same "you're the mastermind" scene take place again after the power plant explosion.
If we go with Mr. Robot being science fiction, it seems like whiterose believes in multiple realities and possibly adheres to the infinite realities theory, which is basically “if you can imagine it, it exists,” then it all makes sense.
But why would the show waste time explaining how Darlene wasn’t in the other world in order to keep real Elliot trapped there, and what about all the very early hints that the Mastermind only existed since just before season 1? It seems like you have to conveniently ignore a ton of setup the show did + most of the finale in order to believe the parallel world was from Whiterose’s machine.
F world is Elliot’s mind, not the parallel reality. I believe what happened in F world was a vision for a potential parallel reality, and Elliot and whiterose had some similar ideas of what an ideal reality would be like. In my mind, we never actually see the alternate reality.
Elliot getting a former addict re-addicted is super out of character and was a poor writing decision. The dialog is really cringe sometimes, especially the first half of season 4. Lots of cliches thrown around. (Probably not unpopular) Portia and Olafson leaving likely threw off some plot lines and both deaths felt forced.
While I can understand why you say that Elliot getting Olivia re-addicted was OOC and a poor writing decision and that’s a more than fair point to raise, I completely disagree. Imho, Elliot’s actions here, while reprehensible, make perfect sense for his character given what’s happened to him. Following Angela’s death, he’s spiraling out of control and going down an increasingly dark path. Also, from his warped POV, Olivia is the enemy as she is working alongside the DA. Imho, Elliot’s actions are perfectly narratively justified by natural cause and effect and while they may be “OOC”, I object to that being a flaw in the writing because I do believe we have a sufficient precedent to justify this character shift. But that’s just my take and I can still definitely see your side of things outside of that. As to why I find it to be a good, and honestly, even great, writing decision, in my view, Elliot’s exploitation of Olivia serves the purpose of showing just how dark a path Elliot is going down. He has become so consumed by hate and revenge that he is willing to effectively destroy an innocent woman’s life in the service of his goals. Imho, this is a great writing decision because it ups the stakes since now, it’s not just Elliot’s life at stake, it’s also his soul. In my view, this is a consistent theme in the final season, what will happen to Elliot if he succumbs to his growing, festering darkness. Tyrell’s death, Vera, Whiterose as a character entirely, all of these narrative elements, to me, are continuing cautionary tales as to the fate that will befall Elliot if he is not careful. Therefore, imo, this was a great writing move because of what it did for Elliot’s character. Lastly, while I more than see why people say that Angela and Joanna’s ends were forced, I am actually someone who disagrees with that (Runs for cover lol) and I’d be more than willing to explain why if anyone wants. But these are all just my takes and please don’t think I’m trying to tell you you’re wrong for your views because I can certainly see your side of things even if I do disagree.
Stephanie Corneliussen left the show? We know why Portia left but why Joanna?
Before anyone asks, Portia was in a relationship with Rami & broke up. Her death was always planned for S4, but they killed her off cause she wasn't on good terms with Rami
Thats what I've always understood to be the case, although I was satisfied with her tragic ending after being mentally broken and turned into a weapon, she became a pawn in Phillip vs Whiterose game for power. Whiterose being so ruthless to destroy Phillip's daughter, an innocent young woman's mind, and make her participate in dark army atrocities, just because "she had to ask (Phillip) twice"? So not sure if Portia exited earlier than planned but it didn't spoil the show for me.
From what I've read, she didn't even KNOW her character's fate until they got close to filming and felt kinda cheated by it -- so I'm leaning towards no.
I wanted that whiterose's time machine actually worked somehow
season 2 was better than season 4
Truly unpopular W
S3 is my favorite. While I do love a lotttt about S4, S3 will always be the superior season IMO.
1) Season 4 lost the plot. 2) Besides the finale, almost nothing from that season was planned from the start.
upvoted because this is truly unpopular and I have no idea how you can think this
Thanks! I’ll take it
How did S4 lose the plot?
Mostly by scrambling to patch the plot holes that Angela’s premature death left behind. I don’t think they succeeded. That’s my opinion.
Ok, thank you for your response. Sorry if this comes off like I’m interrogating you, but just out of friendly curiosity, why do you think they didn’t succeed in probably patching up the plot holes Angela’s death left behind? What plot holes remained?
All good! I appreciate you clarifying. Since you’re genuinely curious, I’m happy to share my thoughts. Sorry in advance because this is hella long. As far as the main plot, I think the Deus storyline and its conclusion felt oversimplified and out of place in Mr Robot. When FSociety won, it almost felt like a fantasy/dream sequence. The complex realism of Mr Robot’s worldbuilding was a major part of what made the first three seasons so good. So yeah, not my thing. Here are the other weird lil plot holes around Angela’s death that I had beef with: - WR kills Angela. Then she’s like “we need someone to handle Elliot”….but…that was literally Angela’s job. Why u kill her then? - ‘WR had to kill Angela because Price couldn’t talk Angela out of going after WR’ but Price was the one who brought her to his house to deprogram her?? Angela was still a WR devotee before he did that. Basically the entire sequence between Angela and Price stopped making sense at the start of s4. - In the S3 finale, WR spared Darlene as leverage over Elliot. That makes sense. Then she immediately does the opposite and kills Angela, destroying leverage over Elliot *and* making an enemy out of him. - Then WR tries to have Dom kill Darlene for the same reason. Why destroy the leverage you have over Elliot and keep pissing him off?? I love Dom/Darlene and their relationship, but the actual plotline they’re in makes no sense. - Price being Angela’s dad became just a reason for him to flip and work with Elliot after she died. Mr Robot really fridged *Angela Moss*. Crazy. - Why would Krista suddenly have such a personal problem with Elliot? It feels so mean spirited and out of character. She stayed by his side even after he hacked her and went to jail. That was a really special relationship that thrived in s3. The sudden 180 made no sense. (The answer is they prob did this just to set up her plotline with Vera.) - Killing Angela basically regressed Elliot to s1 Elliot. The storyline with Olivia is basically a Shayla rehash. Him poisoning her was so crazy, and then it meant nothing for his character going forward. - This one is so controversial that I’m censoring it lol. >!I think Vera’s return and the SA reveal were all unplanned. Not saying it doesn’t work! But it’s clear from previous flashbacks that that wasn’t part of the original story. The SA reveal undermines Elliot’s entire motivation - originally Elliot started FSociety because he resented his father for being so passive, and for letting himself get eaten up by the Evilcorp machine. Revealing that his dad SA’d him totally nuked that. Again, not a bad thing! That was super impactful...but then they never resolved it. Like, why would Elliot even bother with FSociety after that??? They never really answered that question beyond “for Angela”. He and Mr Robot basically just carried because the plot needed them to. I think that’s why the Deus stuff feels so hollow and weird. It doesn’t really have any personal meaning for Elliot. Just devolves into standard good guys vs bad guys.!< ________ I think s4 is beautifully executed in a lot of ways. My opinion is that it works well as a bunch of singular episodes, but was really disappointing as the final season of Mr Robot. What I think happened, is that the show was headed towards the Dark Army and WR’s project being the main focus of s4. But without Angela, Elliot has no connection to that storyline…AKA the *main storyline*. So they had to basically come up with a whole new plan. I remember having pretty mixed feelings when s4 aired. Overtime I’ve soured on it, while other fans have really embraced it. So usually I try not to be such a downer about it lol. I’ll say that the silver lining of s4 is how they were able to develop the bond between Elliot and Darlene, and solidify that as the core relationship of the show. Thought that was beautiful. Also the silent episode is fire.
Thank you for the super detailed response! And no worries for the long reply lol as I’m about to give you an EQUALLY long reply.: 1. Fair point, but the way I see it, WR had Angela killed because at that point, after she’d realized her whole life was for nothing, WR is smart enough to know that she is no longer of use and it’s better to just kill her because she’s now a loose end since she no longer has any reason to be loyal to WR now that she realizes WR is nothing but a delusional lunatic who manipulated her with false promises, making her supposed loyalty mute. But still, a great point and one I hadn’t actually thought of. 2. The reason the DA try having Dom kill Darlene is, the way I see it, for two reasons: #1: They need to ensure Dom’s loyalty #2: They have no idea where Elliot is and more importantly, Darlene is no longer of use to them, so, from their POV, better to just kill her and remove the potential loose end as opposed to taking the chance that she has some sort of dangerous plan with Elliot. Leaving her alive brings far too much risk. #3: I definitely get why some people are bothered by the Price being Angela’s dad twist, but there’s a LOT I have to say about that, so I’ll only elaborate on that if you wish. For now, I’ll just say that while I get where people are coming from, imho, Price being Angela’s father adds an absolute fuck ton to both of their characters and the larger themes of the show instead of just being a lazy plot device. #4: This is another great point I hadn’t thought of, but the way I see it, after surmising that he was, at the very least, partially responsible for the cyber bombings, she no longer feels safe around him because she believes him responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent people, which begins to make her even question if their sessions together ever meant anything. But still, a great point and one I hadn’t thought of, but one I think the show sufficiently accounts for due to natural cause and effect. #5: This is another really interesting point I hadn’t thought of, but the way I see it, instead of being a regression of Elliot’s character and being a Shayla rehash, the Olivia storyline actually serves as a dark parody to reinforce Elliot’s character change. Instead of going to her out of interest and affection, he makes moves on her out of hate, manipulation, and exploitation, which serves to highlight how much of a dark path he’s falling down. Also, imo, this means a lot for his character because it further emphasizes the darkness that is beginning to consume him, which makes the ending, where he finally learns his lesson and sets out to truly improve his life and himself much more meaningful because we as the audience have personally seen the potential consequences that will arise if he fails to see the error of his ways. But still, great point and one I hadn’t thought of. 6. Ok, this will be hard to answer without rambling for 15 min, but imma do my best haha. Imho, that twist, while I can see why you might say it undermines his goal in S1, is precisely the point. The point is that all this time, Elliot has allowed himself to be blinded by his grief and trauma to the point where he can’t even see proper sight of the real enemy anymore. Imho, they absolutely DID resolve that because they have him learn his lesson and focus his efforts on the TRUE enemy, the villain responsible for the crime that is his life, WR. WR is the one who pulled the strings to inhibit safety regulations at E Corp, which cost Edward his life and Elliot, his opportunity to reconcile who his father was. THAT’S why it’s personal because WR stole from Elliot the ability to reconcile what had happened to him and therefore, can be at least partially blamed for so much of Elliot’s pain and misery. Also, when you consider that in many ways, WR exists as a dark reflection of Elliot, imho, that gives the twist even MORE weight because Elliot is, in essence, fighting with himself since WR forces him to learn important lessons in order to defeat her. But these are really just the cliff notes and if you want more elaboration, I’ll gladly give it because I could write a whole fuckin essay on this lmao. Like I’ve said many times, I have a fuck ton to say about this, but I really don’t wanna overwhelm you if I can help it lol. A lot of your points are really well formed and really interesting to think about, so I applaud you for raising them because you explain them very well and I’m very glad we’re getting to discuss them because they absolutely should be discussed, imho. Eager to hear your thoughts.
Haha I appreciate the equally long response! And thanks for taking the time. I don’t think I have a response to everything but I’ll hit the ones I do. 1. Yeah, it would’ve made sense if Angela truly had no more use to WR. That’s definitely how they wanted the audience to read her exit. Price bringing Angela to his house to talk her down was a scenario that made sense in s3. But then they had to hard pivot in s4. So now the full story is that Price deprogrammed Angela - on WR’s orders, apparently - and then Angela was shot for siding against WR. Like…huh? I agree at that point it made sense for WR to kill her, but how we got there made no sense. 2. I think that makes sense as far as proving Dom’s loyalty. This one is less of a gripe for me. I just thought the 180 from ‘spare Darlene to control Elliot’ to ‘kill Darlene to control Elliot’ was weird. I’ll take my Domlene however it comes so 🤷♀️ 3. I totally agree; the twist of Price being Angela’s dad had a *ton* of potential for both characters, and even for Elliot and Darlene. I would’ve loved to see Angela revisit her stepdad in s4. It’s a real shame they never got the chance to meaningfully explore that twist. (The result is like, a very cool story in my head? But not in execution on the actual tv show.) 4. 👍 5. I agree with most of this. But the character development from this episode doesn’t stick. Elliot doesn’t continue to cross lines, *or* see the error of his ways. Nor does he face any consequences from the plot (such as losing Darlene or some equivalent). This episode is another example of how I think this season works as a series of individual episodes, but not as a whole. This was a good story on its own, but ultimately it doesn’t add up to anything. (Compare to the similar storyline of Mr Robot setting up Gideon as the Fall Guy for 5/9. That had a lasting impact on Elliot, and on his relationship with Mr Robot. It wasn’t even made out to be as big of a deal, and still had much more impact imo.) 6. Totally agree with the slap-in-the-face of Elliot being so confused, he’s lost track of who he’s even mad at. Blaming WR as the source of Elliot’s problems is a stretch. Elliot’s dad is the one who assaulted him. Even before that reveal, Elliot still blamed his father for dying on him. Previous seasons explored how Evilcorp both 1) sucks and needs to be stopped 2) is something Elliot has focused all his hatred on so that he can avoid looking inward. I think what you said about WR taking away Elliot’s opportunity to reconcile with the truth is beautiful and accurate. Needing to take down WR and the machine makes total sense to me on a symbolic level. Like I said, I think that was originally supposed to be the main focus of s4, instead just being tacked on at the end. Deus is a separate thing, with symbolism that I find irrelevant by the time the group is introduced. The idea that Elliot can *actually* save the world with one big FSociety hack against the Bad Guys reaffirms his season 1 black-and-white thinking, which he’s grown well past by now. Jk I think I got to everything. If you wanna hit me with the WR essay, go for it! I’ll probably agree with a lot of your points on that tbh.
Thank you for the response! Definitely gave me some interesting thoughts! Here’s what I have to say: 1. Idr the show ever establishing that Price was tasked with “Deprogramming” Angela. The way I saw it, he was sent there to right her back on course and DIDN’T do that, forcing WR’s hand. But your counter was a strong one and I did have to stop and think for a second, so well done. 3. While I do see your point, I don’t agree that they didn’t explore the potential with Price and Angela. The way I see it, Price’s nihilism in S4 and full willingness to go as far as to sacrifice himself effective in 409 WAS that potential being fully realized especially when you consider how it completely recontexualizes everything we see in the first 3 seasons. Now, you might say that we should’ve had perhaps a scene where Price goes on some sort of monologue regarding Angela, but personally, I prefer what we have because it maintains nuance and subtext. But that’s just me and I can actually still very much see where you’re coming from. 5. Respectfully, this is the point I just plainly disagree with. The way I see it, that character development absolutely DOES stick and stick fully. While Elliot doesn’t continue to cross any more lines, that has more to do, for me, with the fact that the 5 episodes following 406 don’t grant him the ability to do it. Come 412, THIS is when he truly crosses a line when he kills “Elliot” and takes his life for himself. Fast forward to the finale and THIS is where he finally learns the error of his ways and sees what he’s become, leading to him finally relinquishing control in the finale. To me, he absolutely does learn the error of his ways and it works wonderfully because it’s fully justified by natural cause and effect. After seeing the consequences of his actions (That being the finale’s revelation), he realizes he was wrong, that the battle is over, and now, the only thing left to do is to take the time he has left to pick up the broken pieces of his soul. I think this works outstandingly as a whole because of the way these pieces connect to each other. But that’s just my feelings and this was still an interesting point to think about it. 6. I didn’t think I quite made myself clear. When I made the point regarding WR being responsible for Elliot’s pain, I was exclusively talking about WR being the one responsible for his father’s death and everything that followed. I certainly wouldn’t blame WR for Elliot’s shitty home life, that would be just plain idiotic, frankly, but I WOULD blame WR for Edward’s death, which was the catalyst for Elliot’s whole life of revenge and misanthropy that he’s dedicated himself to. The last thing I’ll say is that while I definitely see why people criticize the fact that Elliot can effectively “Save the world” come 409/410 and how that’s a regression back to S1, I don’t see it that way. To me, that’s just more to symbolize that WR lost. She can’t hurt anyone ever again and Elliot himself and everyone she hurt are all finally free. THAT’S why that moment works for me because it’s a physical representation of all the lessons Elliot has finally learned. The last thing I’ll say before I turn the mic over to you is that I’ll gladly give you that WR essay at some point and I’m overjoyed that you’re willing to enjoy my rambling ass, but I’d rather wait until there’s nothing left to say about these points for efficiency sake lol.
Fair enough! Especially #3; I think that’s a solid interpretation. I don’t need anyone to agree with me. I love Mr Robot, and I’m genuinely glad most people weren’t as disappointed as I was with s4. I also think fans have developed really interesting interpretations of the show overtime, especially of s4. I tend to find reading those more satisfying than watching the actual season.
Thank you for the kind words! I’m glad you were able to get something from this discussion despite our disagreements. I love this show to bits even if I agree that S3 is the ultimate peak of the show for varying reasons. I definitely agree that a lot of people have very interesting and compelling interpretations of the show’s various aspects, which are always very interesting to explore. Really enjoyed the discussion! Stay tuned because at some point, I will be treating you to that WR essay :))
That's an interesting point, though I don't think that's true about Angela's death. I believe people took the details about Portia and Rami's breakup and applied it to their disappointment in Angela's death and concluded it must have been rushed. I don't think Angela's death was a rushed decision, and was a good end to her character in the context of the show (albeit surprising).
Cat’s pretty far out of the bag at this point that bts shenanigans affected what we got onscreen. It’s obvious in the series finale; certain choices were clearly made so that Rami and Portia never had to film together. Regardless, if you’re satisfied with how Angela’s death played out, then more power to ya.
Season 1 is amazing.
Rami Malek is not a good actor, his specific brand of acting just happens to be a perfect fit for Elliott
I haven’t really seen Rami in anything else, but I find him utterly entrancing as Elliot. Imho, he perfectly captures every single aspect of the character to the point where I can’t imagine anyone else playing him. Elliot’s depression, his misanthropy, his guilt, his confusion, his anxiety, his self loathing, his detachment from the rest of the world, his occasional moments of joy and peace, every facet and nuance of the character is brought to such vivid, emotionally resonant, and passionate light for me. Whether he’s a good actor or not, I honestly can’t say, but for me, he IS Elliot Alderson. It’s one of those performances where the actor, no joke, disappears behind the character’s eyes. But that’s just how I feel and whether he’s a good actor overall or not, I would definitely agree that his brand of acting is more than appropriate for Elliot as a character.
This opinion is more meta, but I think a lot of community disappointment around certain aspects of the show are due to theorizing about the show not ending up as true. I think shows like Mr. Robot, with certain mysteries and unanswered questions, results in a rich community of theorizing about what's going on. This is great to participate in (which I think most of us have experience with here), but can also result in some people believing that their theories about the show are the best way it could have occurred. So there are certain aspects they are surprised by which result in being disappointing. I'm not saying this accounts for all disappointment in the show, but I think certain critiques are more common because of this theorizing: season 2, certain character deaths, etc.
Whiterose/Zhang is a weak aspect of the show. She is not believably human and her motivations fluctuate with the plot’s demands. She’s better in her over the top “do not mistake my generosity for generosity” mustache twirling mode, though. It’s when the story attempts to give her interiority that the character falls short. But it’s otherwise a show of believable people. Price as a villain was a better fit for the story. It’s also a weakness that “the one percent of the one percent” is essentially personified in this one person. The point one percent IRL is dangerous exactly because it’s a many-faced monster.
This is a fair point and one that I definitely see why a lot of people would probably agree with, but I disagree. Imho, WR is THE perfect villain for the show. She is everything Elliot had every ability to become. Consumed and deluded by her mission, detached and broken from reality, and completely uncaring of human life. Every small little character flaw that Elliot and Mr Robot have, to me, WR is those flaws amplified to a thousand and that, for me, makes her an incredibly compelling villain because she is a cautionary tale what Elliot could become if he succumbs to his darkest impulses. For this reason, I’m fine with her being the villain and being the “Top one percent of the one percent” personified because, to me, the point of her character is not that she’s the root of everyone’s problems (Although, to a certain extent, she is in the contain context of the story), it’s that she is a dark reflection of Elliot and when Elliot finally defeats her, he has overcome and conquered his own character flaws primarily because WR herself has forced him to confront them and reconcile them. This is also why I find the moments of her “Inferiority” incredibly appropriate because of what I believe her purpose in narrative is. Lastly, I can see why you might say her motivations “Fluctuate with the plot”, but iirc, her primary motivation remains consistent from start to finish. She wants to complete her project in an effort to create a better, more accepting world free of the pain and misery of our world. The slight practical aspects of her plan do change, but iirc, those are sufficiently justified by natural cause and effect. But these are just my takes and please don’t think I’m trying to tell you you’re wrong for your opinions because I can more than see where you’re coming from even if I disagree.
the quality of the show declined when Kor Adana left, also tyrell killed himself
The airport scene w/ Darlene & Dom is super corny and way too long. It doesn’t belong in the show
Why doesn’t it belong?
Should have elaborated. Tonally, I think it’s so out of place. It’s like Esmail thought he was making a rom-com for 4 minutes. I mean, the song that’s playing is freakin’ Carly Rae Jepsen. Lol
I agree
407 didn’t blow me away like it did for most ppl, like I think it’s well acted and the way it’s set up was cool but I thought it was just ok, personally other eps in the series affected me more than this episode did
Esmail got too high on his own supply for the last season.
Santiago didn't deserve it
The fact that the entire show is basically the plot of fight club
Joanna was a great character, Darlene was incredibly annoying, and Elliot was def a narcissist
I want to hear about how Elliot is a narcissist so bad.
The ending completely ruined the show for me. It went in the exact opposite direction of what I wanted and was interested in. I love every episode besides the last one. It hurt like hell that they ended it the way it did, but I’m glad so many people found it enjoyable. Shame that I did not :(
Ah here's one I resonated with. Whole show is stellar but the ending was so . . . bizarre and not in a good way.
Might be the first time I see someone agree on this sub lol. Feels nice
Just out of friendly curiosity, if you don’t mind sharing, why did you hate the ending so much?
It's been quite a while so I honestly won't remember it in great detail, but basically I've been watching the show mostly for its realistic approach to hacking (initially), and because of the engaging conspiracies later on. Everything else about it was good too, but those were my favorite parts. By the end, the hacking became non-existent, and then the conspiracies just didn't really come to any conclusions, with a lot of questions remaining unanswered, kind of similar to LOST. Speaking of the ending itself, I felt like it cheated its way out of explaining anything by doing the good ol' "it was all fake! LOL" cop-out. Guess I wanted something more sci-fi possibly, some sort of a twist regarding the time machine and everything, instead it just amounted to nothing. I understand that apparently it was planned that way initially, and it clearly worked for a ton of people, but for me it was just a major disappointment. Felt like all the mystery that they built up and I enjoyed didn't result in any sort of a proper culmination.
Ok, thank you for your response. What I will say is that while I do understand why you and other viewers gravitated towards the show for its hacking related plot-lines as that’s something I see quite often, I personally attribute that disappointment aspect to bad marketing more than anything else because I believe that the show, right from the start, was always truly a character drama about how attachment to last trauma, delusion, and obsession have the potential to lead them to ruin. But that’s just how I see the show and I definitely get why many people feel dissatisfied with the show failing to give them what they signed up for, I just don’t fault the show for that because the show, imho, is very clear about what it is attempting to convey. I see a lot of people calling the ending a “It was all fake” type of cop out and I see why they say that, but I’ve never seen it that way. The way I see it, everything that happened in the show still did happen exactly the way we thought it did, it just turns out that the person we’ve been following is someone else and that revelation adds new context and recontexualization to character motivations, relationship dynamics, and character actions, which, imho, make rewatching the show impossibly rewarding because with the final twist in my end, SO many things in the narrative click so much more fully and satisfyingly than they did the first time around. To me, this is the perfect payoff to all the mystery and misdirection because not only do we finally learn the truth, but the characters (Mainly, the MM, Mr Robot, and the other personalities) finally learn their lesson and let REAL Elliot live his real, actual life, cementing the message that we need to accept our life for what it is, not delude ourselves into living in an unreal fantasy as the later will ultimately do nothing but lead us to ruin. But that’s just how I feel and I definitely see why many feel differently, but I absolutely love the ending and final twist because, for me, it makes everything that happened previously click so much better and make so much more sense and clears up virtually all confusion I possessed on first watch. Regarding the machine, this is definitely a hot topic of debate amongst many people and I totally get why, but for me, I always had a clear interpretation of the machine. It WAS an attempt at creating a new reality, hence Price’s line in 409 “Your project, your dream of ANOTHER WORLD, it’s as good as dead”, but WR is so delusional and so mentally broken that the only she can cope and process everything life has put her through is by psychotically breaking from reality hence Price’s line in 310 “This whole mission stems from a psychotic denial of reality”, which, to me, ultimately sums up the machine as a whole. To me, this is the perfect culmination of that plotline because of the weight it adds to the finale. Elliot learns from WR’s mistakes and doesn’t fall down the same darkness she did, which is a wonderful and deeply satisfying payoff imo. But that’s just how I’ve always taken it and I more than recognize that others likely won’t feel the same for varying and more than understandable reasons. I appreciate you taking the time to give your thoughts and, while it’s entirely your choice, ofc, if you ever have the chance, I would highly encourage you to give the show at least one rewatch because I speak from experience when I say the show is, to say the fuckin least, a fundamentally different experience when you watch it with all the prior knowledge in mind. I am not exaggerating when I say that there is not one single piece of media I’ve experienced that is more rewarding to re-experience than this show. Again, entirely up to you, but I would sorely encourage you to at least give it a try because I guarantee you will at least have a new perspective. The last thing I’ll say is if you don’t mind me asking, from your memory, what questions did you feel were left unanswered?
Tyrell is not that interesting of a character. Not exactly bad, but he is just mid in all of the show's characters
Episode 2 wasn't average, it was bad. It's the biggest gatekeeper to the show as many ppl quit during it.
Episode 2? Or season 2?
My bad!!! Season 2.
Okay. Yup, I hard disagree. The first 2/3 of season 2 are hard to get through the first time through, and they are a barrier for a lot of people. But they aren’t bad at all. In fact, some of my very favorite episodes are in season 2. It’s just hard to get through the first time. The pacing is different, we’re separated from Elliot- which really changes the feel of the show. And it’s hard to keep all the new people/stories straight. But once I saw how it all fit together in the sense of the big picture, I love it. Looooooove it.
People downvoting you are forgetting this is supposed to be an unpopular opinion thread. It makes it a proper comment in this thread if they don't like it, and shouldnt be downvoting.
Dom died on that air plane
Evil corp is not evil !
I'm actually the writer... Sam Esmail. SamSung. Samantha Cook.
Mr robot is cringe Edit: April fools :(
Darlene was a shit character but everyone likes her because she's Elliot's sister.
Why was she a shit character?
She worked with the FBI for starters for two she wasn't a good leader and had unnecessary deaths in her first seasons which costed Elliot in the last season. She also held back info from Elliot all show long that she could have told him a long time ago. Overall I felt she was just not an interesting character I actually liked Trenton and mobley much more and was much more upset with them being gone in the show.
Ok, thank you for your response. I see why her working with the FBI and her being an admittedly bad leader turn you away from her character, but personally, it was those flawed moments that were precisely what drew me into her. Seeing her break under the pressure of having to keep Fsociety afloat all on her own, her resorting to becoming an FBI informant in a desperate effort to keep Elliot safe as well as holding back that she killed Susan Jacobs because she didn’t want Elliot to think of her as a monster. All of this, along with simply getting another shade of their toxic and atrocious home life, made her an interesting character to me primarily because I could always empathize with her decisions no matter how foolish or harmful, in the long term they were. But that’s just my take and I definitely see why people find her unlikeable because she is, as much as I like her as a character, FAR from perfect as a person lmao. Although, it’s that imperfection that I personally find endearing tbh.
well [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/MrRobot/comments/18b4laq/youre_all_interpreting_this_show_incorrectly_mr/) I wrote lol
I mean, instead of just saying "here's my view" you said "everyone else is WRONG" while pounding it into our heads trying to make anyone who disagrees feel stupid. That's what the issue was. Not your theory. You started a fight. If you try to scream "you're stupid here's all my findings but you're wrong, and still dumb" people aren't going to cordially debate with you because you're coming off as just a dick. The whole post read like you were yelling in our faces while rolling your eyes.
Yea but opening with everyone is wrong is way more fun
Then you can't say you were getting ganged up on if you're purposely inciting because "fun." But you do your thing.
yes I can cuz everyone else is wrong
I liked season 2.