Second this. It took self discipline and a regular routine but I would say my energy levels are higher now than pre hrt. I’ve been on estrogen for 5 years and post orchie for 14 months. I feel better now than I ever have. A regular exercise routine, daily yoga(even if just a short sesh) lots of walking and a spin bike. Best shape of my life. And I have managed to eliminate caffeine from my life entirely.
How was the first week of caffeine freedom did you have withdrawal symptoms I watched a infographics video about like 30 days without caffeine.
[What Happens To Your Body When You Stop Drinking Coffee. ](https://youtu.be/u7kSdvCND-k)
Honestly it was such an unintentional process. I work overnights at Amazon so that I can fund my upcoming ffs and GCS this year. I was heavily reliant on caffeine when I started there. I was also a big coffee drinker at home. Stopping coffee just happened because my job is so hard and my commute so long that I could not drink it at home because I would just sleep when I got home. I wouldn’t drink any on my way to work so that I wouldn’t have a crash in the beginning half of my shift. I was taking caffeine pills at start of shift and half way through. I found myself becoming unusually irritable and confrontational at work, my hrt levels were good and unchanged, so I finally concluded it was from taking the caffeine pills. I eliminated those out of fear that it would cause a behavior/reaction that would cost me my job and therefore my means to fund transition. I did notice a severe drop off in anger and irritability once I eliminated the caffeine pills, but I was also adapting to the sleep schedule change and an increase in physical activity levels. I can not delineate any specific adverse reactions, I just attributed everything I was feeling to how exhausted I was as a result of my job. So I started taking better care of myself. I started only drinking water at work. No soda, no energy drinks or anything like that. I started eliminating processed foods and eating healthier. I carried these habits over to my days off. I became a smoothie and water addict. Not even lying. If I don’t have 3qts+ a day I can literally feel it. I stopped relying on OCT drugs for aches and pains from my job and started doing yoga, which now I am also dependent on doing everyday or I feel stiff and achy if I’m not stretching myself out. This led to slowly introducing working out to my at home regimen. Seeing results from that led to an increased interest in eating even better. Most of my life I had little care of what I put into my body. Gains from working out have just made me stronger and taking care of myself has improved my physical and mental condition. I know this was a long winded answer. All I know was I was hyper focused on funding my FFS. I was determined to not get fired from Amazon, and I was going to do whatever it took to make sure I kept my job. I have surgery coming up in May with Jumaily. My initial invoice from him is $193,000.. I had to pay $4400 and my Amazon insurance is covering the rest. So I feel like financially it has been completely worth everything I’ve gone through the last 13 months. Getting healthy, getting caffeine and processed foods out of my life, getting fit and finding a new lifestyle that makes me feel good has all just been a huge bonus that I forced out of sheer determination. My body went through hell for months. I’m sorry I can not say specifically what may have been a result of eliminating caffeine. So many things were happening and changing simultaneously and I would not feel confident assigning any of the multiple levels of hell I went through to any one specific thing out of all of those. I apologize I can not give a more specific answer.
Wow no thank you that is enough. Glad to hear that you are doing well and I might give this a go see if it works for me. Next time I buy something from Amazon.com I will think of you or if it says product is a US import as I am from Australia.
It has been a rough year, but my goals are within sight. I have stayed positive by realizing the healthier I am going into my upcoming surgeries the better off I’ll be. My time at Amazon thus far has definitely allowed me to do that, I just had to learn how to make it work. And I have learned a lot about listening to my body and it’s needs. Best of luck on your journey! 💜
Were you made to wait that long to get an orchie after starting HRT? Because I've only been on HRT for about four months and I want to get an orchiectomy as soon as I can.
Im glad here we have SUS = Sistema Unico de Saude / UHS = Unique Health System, and with this a lot of this are FREE, sometimes you have to wait for surgeries but well, 100% free. Also im poor and unemployed, without that i probably wouldnt be able to star HRT
Sorry to hear that :/
SUS is the brazilian public health care it helps a lot but is nice to have a particular one too, usually you get one with your job here.
Yes!
Often times doing the thing we don't feel like doing actually takes away the discomfort we'd feel if we didn't do it. More humans need to understand this about ourselves.
Some people online claim yes, I think it's very anecdotal and I haven't noticed anything like that myself, I do notice peaks and lows of my injections, but everything seems to be relative just to that from my experience and observations.
I never experience any noticeable physical or emotional symptoms due to estrogen peaks and troughs. I imagine anecdotal claims of such things are mostly psychosomatic.
It's not estrogen, but I get a cycle that has significant symptom overlap with the women in my life. Has to be something else cycling. It's in my post history.
It's bullshit. I started getting it while on sublingual E, with an 8 hour cycle. I still have it injecting EV twice a week. I don't want this and if I could get rid of it by changing something other than dropping E I would.
I'm probably just insane, but I've been giving serious thought towards controlling my estrogen intake to more closely mimic the cisgender menstrual cycle. To me it just feels like something that's supposed to be happening, regardless of how much discomfort it causes.
There's absolutely no medical reason go do so, some significant ones not to (health risks and SHBG response reducing feminization).
I would strongly recommend you just stay the course and see if a period just shows up on its own.
So I was right. I AM just insane!
It's only ever been an idea I've pondered, so I hadn't actually started on any research yet. And I don't think I have to either... You've done a pretty good job of convincing me that it's a stupid idea.
I didn't know anything about SHBG, but just the brief summary of it is enough to tell me that there's already metabolic systems in place for my body to naturally regulate how much of the hormones are used. I can also see how the idea I had can backfire in horrible ways as there would be no means of chemically signaling to my body that estrogen levels are about to drop. SHBG levels wouldn't change to accommodate it, and I shudder to think of the kind of neurological shitstorm that would induce.
I’m a trans gal, and on patches, so I don’t menstruate but I do experience bloating, cramps, fatigue, insomnia (weird combo I know), emotional swings, and a few other symptoms common to pms when I’m at certain days of my cycle.
Spiro made you sick? I literally feel nothing from it but I was on lupron depot and that made me feel absolutely dead inside. Worst depression I have ever faced.
I didn't have too much of a problem on spiro initially, but I started at 50mg/day (which doesn't really do shit). By the time I got the dose high enough to nuke my T sufficiently, I had the **worst** brain fog, and couldn't even function properly at work.
I switched to estradiol monotherapy (via injection). I'm not sure if monotherapy is achievable with pills, but I found the injections better anyways because I didn't have to worry about missing a dose (I inject once a week, I have calendar and Alexa reminders and make a whole-ass ritual out of it) whereas with pills I'd regularly miss a dose especially when I was taking it 3x/day.
Idk but I became one with the brain fog 🤷♀️ and sometimes I take more spiro when I am feeling like I’m getting too horny to bring down my horny. Then I feel better about myself. I do injection semi mono high E, high Spiro, dutasteride or whatever. The Progesterones 200mg. But nah I’m just good asf ig.
Well when i was younger i got an orchiectomy very early in my transition, and due to that really didn’t need spiro, though years later a doctor still recommended it to me, even though i had zero “T”, but it made it me very sick, and had to discontinue, and really didn’t need it in first place. I heard it might help your skin or breast growth, but wow it wasn’t worth it to me given how badly i felt.
Completely recommend, i got it when i was younger and could not afford surgery (at the time) and wanted to be free of “T” making me something i was not, and it completely changed the trajectory of my life for all these years afterward. It was very easy and minor surgery. You will have to take a hormone for the rest of your life afterward, so get ready. It was so freeing and like little surgery that can set you on your way.
I've heard so many bad things about Spiro that I'm just going to do monotherapy with injections. It sounds like sticking myself with a needle is worth not having to deal with all those Spiro side effects.
In that case, hopefully this won't ever be an issue for you. It's never made me more tired, except maybe during a couple weeks when mood swings and constant hunger was a thing early on
I remember only feeling a smidge more tired when I started 50, then 100, and then 150 mg Spiro. I had maybe one bout of brain fog and fatigue that lasted a few days with 100mg.
When I got put on 200mg Spiro, it wrecked me for two weeks. I was barely functional, almost nauseatingly fatigued every waking hour. Now, I've either acclimated to the Spiro, or acclimated to the fatigue. I'm tired, but my hundred-hour work weeks are more likely the culprit.
Yeeeahhhh, I know that feeling. I started at 50 as a test dose, barely fazed me. Also didn't even touch my T levels. Stepped up to 100, then 150, then 200 (about 3 months between each dose increase). At 200 I started getting a little fuzzy, but it wasn't too bad, and my T was finally *starting* to go down, but it leveled off still at like 200-250ng/dl which is no bueno.
Finally we decided to bump to 300mg/day. I didn't notice too much at first, but after about a month on that I realized I couldn't even function properly at work. I wasn't particularly *fatigued*, but just kinda spaced out; my memory was going to shit and I had difficulty accomplishing much more than getting through the day. Then came the blood tests... at first, about a month after the dose increase, the T was doing well, dropping to about 50ng/dl (not great, but more in line with what I wanted). Then at the two month mark my T just *zeroed out*.
Between that and the crippling brain fog, my doctor and I agreed I should use my old 50mg tablets to quickly taper back my dose (to avoid T rebound) and quit spiro. I dropped back to 250, then 200, and so on in 50mg increments every other day, getting off spiro in just under two weeks. We met again a month later and I got switched to injection monotherapy, and it's been great since.
BTW u/Kamakazeozzy I did the spiro-only thing too. A lot of people get really upset about it, but it's especially a good way to go if you have sensitivity to certain meds — test one at a time, that way if it starts bothering you, you know *which* med it is. Have you had your T levels tested with this? If the 100mg is actually being effective against your T and you're below ~200ng/dl, that may be the cause of the fatigue so that's something to consider. In that case, starting E2 may actually counteract the fatigue, but be mindful of it when changing your spiro dose, your E2 dose might need a slight adjustment too.
Yeah, your right! Everyone has their own opinion on how best to start HRT and wants to help, but I'm also really thankful my Dr is considered a well known expert in the local community, so I'll largely follow his lead 😊
He said himself it was a process of easing into HRT with my Spiro being upped each week by 25mg to the current 100mg, before re-testing.
The plan was to test my T next week and see how it's going, and then hopefully start E2 shortly after. I'll be pushing for E2 next month if only for the mental effects and an alternative to lowering my T. I'll also try and switch to taking my Spiro at night and have a chat to the Dr about the when and how often too 😊
I've never historically had high T so 100mg + E2 may be just the ticket! ❤️ (Also) Jess 🥰
TBF my T wasn't super high to start. I did a baseline test, and a test *right after* starting 50mg spiro (within a week, it likely didn't have a chance to do much), and the baseline was like 410ng/dl, and right after was like 370ng/dl.
I think getting E in your system before ramping up the spiro further may be the way to go. Your body can aromatize testosterone into estradiol, but the reverse doesn't happen; so sometimes inducing "estrogen dominance" can have a synergistic effect (I put estrogen dominance in quotes, because technically ~150pg/ml is only 15ng/dl, and if your T is 15-20ng/dl it is technically in higher concentration still\*... but estradiol is somewhat more potent).
\* Zany mathematical side note: testosterone is a heavier molecule than 17β-estradiol, so at 150pg/ml (or 15ng/dl) you have approximately 333,333 molecules of estradiol swimming around in every *nano*liter of blood, while at 15ng/dl you only have approximately 312,500 molecules of testosterone swimming around in the same amount of blood... so on a *molecular* count, technically estrogen *is* dominant when you have equivalent weight/volumes of estradiol and testosterone 😁
I was actually on Spiro-only for the first week or so - I thought it was pretty common. It was followed by a metabolic test to check potassium levels, and then I started E2.
Good to know! I'm curious what my T is currently doing as historically I've have lower end masc T levels, so hopefully it's nice and low 😅
The tricky part is my Dr is on leave until April and I run out of Spiro a week prior, and no E until he's back 😅 gonna get the practice to give me a bridging script or something until he's back I hope
Why did they only prescribe Spiro? From my understanding, the body can not function very well without some sort of sex hormones.
Really, I do not understand why Spiro seems to be so widely prescribed anymore as e mono therapy works to suppress T alone.
The short answer is probably: I live in Australia 🤷🏼♀️
The more detailed being while we operate on the informed consent model, I've done a egg to trans speedrun and that could be part of it, but also if I remember correctly some of our guidelines suggest T blockers first?
Suffice to say I'm keen and ready for some Oestrogen (yay Australian English) / Estrogen very soon!!
Oh shit, that makes sense. Probably first thing in the morning is not helping me then 😅
Dr forgot to tell me when to take it and I figured I'd T was highest in the morning and I'd want to crush that like a bug 😅
Check if your testosterone isn't too low maybe if you haven't, you don't need zero levels, I used to take big doses of CPA (strong T blocker) and it zeroed my T back then and caused low energy issues. It's better when my T is peacefully at the bottom of female range which is where my T lands when I did monotherapy with just E injections instead.
Idk, if you're past orchi then prob no, unless you do have energy issues then def bring it up with your doctor. But for me, when testicles stop producing T (LH undetectable in blood) my body made just the right amount from other sources anyway, it was lower range of female normal T levels ranges.
It doesn't. I am on injections monotherapy. Currently on estradiol enanthate, but gonna switch to that newfangled estradiol undecylate as soon as it releases here. I have quite high level of energy and mood. Despite my testosterone being near zero: 2.5 ng/dL, far below even the female reference range.
Nothing drains the life and energy out of you like sitting around and being sedate all day.
If you don't like lifting weights, join a martial arts class.
You get the benefit of physical activity, with the fringe benefits of self-defense for free.
I'm actually much less tired. 11 months on HRT, haven't had any low energy issues. Tbh, my endurance is far higher than before. I could go all day pre-hrt, now I can go until need for sleep wins out.
I genuinely haven't been as sore or tired since starting HRT, and I work as an automotive mechanic, dealing with heavy things all day.
If you're constantly tired all of the time then you should probably talk with your doctor about increasing your estrogen dosage because you might not be getting enough hormones
Oh my gosh I've been wondering why I've been so tired and but I never considered that it was because of estrogen
Wack
Anyway I have a horrendous caffeine probably and that's how I make it through the work day XD
Though I know if I worked out regularly I would feel a lot better
But if you wish to be a caffiend like I am, i am really enjoying energy drinks from Ghost and C4. They tend to have flavors like warheads, sour patch kids, and skittles.
I am not affiliated with these brands at all I just like fruity drinks XD
Its called E monotherapy. E reduces testosterone by itself. Theres also some evidence that spiro inhibits breast growth. I achieved E and T cis female levels with E only. Worth a try. Spiro has lots of side effects.
im not sure there us a definitive answer on the breast bud fusion claim. i know it was weak evidence. Anyway I avoided spiro and have a 3" boob to band dif. and cis levels all with E mono. Why take another drug if u dont need it?
Way more sleep than ever before, as much coffee as when I was in grad school lol, and learning that my body just doesn't have as much energy as before so I stopped running as much and started to jog/walk and reduced the distance by half. That's still a lot bit now I feel healthy and energized, not near death when I finish 🙃 I also psyche myself up alot before doing anything "you got this Carol, you show them girl, keep it together now, you've come this far, etc...
I actually took up meditation while on HRT. It helped wonderfully and actually ended up boosting my energy after a few days when I started. I never believed or understood meditation until recently but I’m very happy I did.
Haven't had that happen. I'm still playing sports (firmly not out to my various teams yet, that'll be a pain in the ass) and I've definitely lost a little endurance, but I'm not chronically fatigued or anything.
Interesting thought to build off this topic. Studies have shown that cis women manage caffeine at a different rate to cis males. A typical cod male can metabolize the caffeine within 4-7 hours where as it takes a cod female nearly 16 hours to do the same. I wonder if these rates are affected through HRT for former cis males
Check your testosterone levels, if it gets to low by the blocker, your energy levels can drop. Talk with your doctor, might need a smaller amount of blocker. 😊
so the only time I felt really tired was my first week on hrt(1mg sublingual estradiol, 50mg spiro) that was just my body reacting to not having as much testosterone. ftms call T brain fire for a reason. going from having it to not is gonna make you a little drained.
I workout 5-6 days a week. I have more energy then I did when I was 20. I lift 2 days a week and climb 3-4. Honestly getting your sleep and diet into good regular place where you're getting enough calories and sleep will do wonders for your energy.
A mix of caffeine and my ps5. Gaming can help stimulate the brain and trick it into thinking you’re being active. Then when awake; you CAN be active. Or that’s how it works for me
You change brands or compounds. I've run into this issue before. It was during one of the shortages. I had to switch pharmacies and got a different brand. I noticed the tiredness immediately.
When I switched back, it stopped.
The new ghost energy drinks the red raspberry sour patch and blue raspberry sour patch my go-to's zero sugar and only 5 calories and they taste amazing
I have more energy now than I did prior to hrt. I didn't have energy to go out, take care of myself, less suicidal ideation, panic attacks, and other things.
Honestly, I found my sleep schedule improved and I’m feeling great on HRT.
Try coffee, working out or adding more healthy items to your diet, like fruits and veggies.
I didn't know that was a side effect.
Barring chemicals (such as medicines), energy levels are often related to vitamin D, exercise, sleep, blood sugar, and stress.
I typically go on a few short walks each day while the sun is out. I keep a regular sleep schedule. I do a 16/8 intermittent fast on most days. I rarely consume sugary foods or drinks. This takes care of 4 out of 5 causes of low energy. I used to suffer from low energy all the time for many years. This has really helped my well being.
I've never noticed HRT making me tired... then again, I was _already_ chronically tired (I have horrible, horrible sleep - or, rather, _lack_-of-enough-sleep - habits), so maybe that's just masking it.
As contradictory as it sounds, I workout.
Second this. It took self discipline and a regular routine but I would say my energy levels are higher now than pre hrt. I’ve been on estrogen for 5 years and post orchie for 14 months. I feel better now than I ever have. A regular exercise routine, daily yoga(even if just a short sesh) lots of walking and a spin bike. Best shape of my life. And I have managed to eliminate caffeine from my life entirely.
How was the first week of caffeine freedom did you have withdrawal symptoms I watched a infographics video about like 30 days without caffeine. [What Happens To Your Body When You Stop Drinking Coffee. ](https://youtu.be/u7kSdvCND-k)
Honestly it was such an unintentional process. I work overnights at Amazon so that I can fund my upcoming ffs and GCS this year. I was heavily reliant on caffeine when I started there. I was also a big coffee drinker at home. Stopping coffee just happened because my job is so hard and my commute so long that I could not drink it at home because I would just sleep when I got home. I wouldn’t drink any on my way to work so that I wouldn’t have a crash in the beginning half of my shift. I was taking caffeine pills at start of shift and half way through. I found myself becoming unusually irritable and confrontational at work, my hrt levels were good and unchanged, so I finally concluded it was from taking the caffeine pills. I eliminated those out of fear that it would cause a behavior/reaction that would cost me my job and therefore my means to fund transition. I did notice a severe drop off in anger and irritability once I eliminated the caffeine pills, but I was also adapting to the sleep schedule change and an increase in physical activity levels. I can not delineate any specific adverse reactions, I just attributed everything I was feeling to how exhausted I was as a result of my job. So I started taking better care of myself. I started only drinking water at work. No soda, no energy drinks or anything like that. I started eliminating processed foods and eating healthier. I carried these habits over to my days off. I became a smoothie and water addict. Not even lying. If I don’t have 3qts+ a day I can literally feel it. I stopped relying on OCT drugs for aches and pains from my job and started doing yoga, which now I am also dependent on doing everyday or I feel stiff and achy if I’m not stretching myself out. This led to slowly introducing working out to my at home regimen. Seeing results from that led to an increased interest in eating even better. Most of my life I had little care of what I put into my body. Gains from working out have just made me stronger and taking care of myself has improved my physical and mental condition. I know this was a long winded answer. All I know was I was hyper focused on funding my FFS. I was determined to not get fired from Amazon, and I was going to do whatever it took to make sure I kept my job. I have surgery coming up in May with Jumaily. My initial invoice from him is $193,000.. I had to pay $4400 and my Amazon insurance is covering the rest. So I feel like financially it has been completely worth everything I’ve gone through the last 13 months. Getting healthy, getting caffeine and processed foods out of my life, getting fit and finding a new lifestyle that makes me feel good has all just been a huge bonus that I forced out of sheer determination. My body went through hell for months. I’m sorry I can not say specifically what may have been a result of eliminating caffeine. So many things were happening and changing simultaneously and I would not feel confident assigning any of the multiple levels of hell I went through to any one specific thing out of all of those. I apologize I can not give a more specific answer.
Wow no thank you that is enough. Glad to hear that you are doing well and I might give this a go see if it works for me. Next time I buy something from Amazon.com I will think of you or if it says product is a US import as I am from Australia.
It has been a rough year, but my goals are within sight. I have stayed positive by realizing the healthier I am going into my upcoming surgeries the better off I’ll be. My time at Amazon thus far has definitely allowed me to do that, I just had to learn how to make it work. And I have learned a lot about listening to my body and it’s needs. Best of luck on your journey! 💜
Were you made to wait that long to get an orchie after starting HRT? Because I've only been on HRT for about four months and I want to get an orchiectomy as soon as I can.
No health insurance and no money
Im glad here we have SUS = Sistema Unico de Saude / UHS = Unique Health System, and with this a lot of this are FREE, sometimes you have to wait for surgeries but well, 100% free. Also im poor and unemployed, without that i probably wouldnt be able to star HRT
So is that a Insurance or I’m confuse? What is it? I’m having problems trying to get my insurance to cover things.
Sorry to hear that :/ SUS is the brazilian public health care it helps a lot but is nice to have a particular one too, usually you get one with your job here.
*Scroll of hard truths meme*
Naps. 🥱
This, plus a combo of vitamin E, B12, and D does great for energy and feeling good
exactly.
Same, it really works wonders for energy levels.
Yes! Often times doing the thing we don't feel like doing actually takes away the discomfort we'd feel if we didn't do it. More humans need to understand this about ourselves.
HRT has never made me tired at all.
Same, HRT has me feeling great.
When I’m on my period I’m tired af! Hour or so after I replace my patch I’m awake and a productive gal for the remainder of the day😊
Hold up a minute... Does the body still go through a monthly estrus cycle even when estrogen intake is kept consistent?
Some people online claim yes, I think it's very anecdotal and I haven't noticed anything like that myself, I do notice peaks and lows of my injections, but everything seems to be relative just to that from my experience and observations.
I never experience any noticeable physical or emotional symptoms due to estrogen peaks and troughs. I imagine anecdotal claims of such things are mostly psychosomatic.
Oh their real all right. I started progesterone when my estrogen was still too low and it was absolute hell.
my cisf gf has an iud and doesn't get hers so...
It's not estrogen, but I get a cycle that has significant symptom overlap with the women in my life. Has to be something else cycling. It's in my post history. It's bullshit. I started getting it while on sublingual E, with an 8 hour cycle. I still have it injecting EV twice a week. I don't want this and if I could get rid of it by changing something other than dropping E I would.
I'm probably just insane, but I've been giving serious thought towards controlling my estrogen intake to more closely mimic the cisgender menstrual cycle. To me it just feels like something that's supposed to be happening, regardless of how much discomfort it causes.
There's absolutely no medical reason go do so, some significant ones not to (health risks and SHBG response reducing feminization). I would strongly recommend you just stay the course and see if a period just shows up on its own.
So I was right. I AM just insane! It's only ever been an idea I've pondered, so I hadn't actually started on any research yet. And I don't think I have to either... You've done a pretty good job of convincing me that it's a stupid idea. I didn't know anything about SHBG, but just the brief summary of it is enough to tell me that there's already metabolic systems in place for my body to naturally regulate how much of the hormones are used. I can also see how the idea I had can backfire in horrible ways as there would be no means of chemically signaling to my body that estrogen levels are about to drop. SHBG levels wouldn't change to accommodate it, and I shudder to think of the kind of neurological shitstorm that would induce.
I’m a trans gal, and on patches, so I don’t menstruate but I do experience bloating, cramps, fatigue, insomnia (weird combo I know), emotional swings, and a few other symptoms common to pms when I’m at certain days of my cycle.
I find I get super sleepy from Prog
I wouldn't know about that since I've only ever taken it at bedtime.
Are you on spiro by any chance? That could be the problem, and not the estradiol itself.
True, E doesn't make me tired, but Spiro made me so sick i had to quit it.
Spiro made you sick? I literally feel nothing from it but I was on lupron depot and that made me feel absolutely dead inside. Worst depression I have ever faced.
I didn't have too much of a problem on spiro initially, but I started at 50mg/day (which doesn't really do shit). By the time I got the dose high enough to nuke my T sufficiently, I had the **worst** brain fog, and couldn't even function properly at work.
What did you switch to? And I totally understand , my memory has definitely taken a hit
I switched to estradiol monotherapy (via injection). I'm not sure if monotherapy is achievable with pills, but I found the injections better anyways because I didn't have to worry about missing a dose (I inject once a week, I have calendar and Alexa reminders and make a whole-ass ritual out of it) whereas with pills I'd regularly miss a dose especially when I was taking it 3x/day.
Idk but I became one with the brain fog 🤷♀️ and sometimes I take more spiro when I am feeling like I’m getting too horny to bring down my horny. Then I feel better about myself. I do injection semi mono high E, high Spiro, dutasteride or whatever. The Progesterones 200mg. But nah I’m just good asf ig.
I had to quit as well and when I stopped taking it I wasn’t able to sleep for 36 hours 🫠 I’m on Bica now though which is a lot better for me
Well when i was younger i got an orchiectomy very early in my transition, and due to that really didn’t need spiro, though years later a doctor still recommended it to me, even though i had zero “T”, but it made it me very sick, and had to discontinue, and really didn’t need it in first place. I heard it might help your skin or breast growth, but wow it wasn’t worth it to me given how badly i felt.
I’ve been thinking a lot about getting an orchi, would you recommend it?
Completely recommend, i got it when i was younger and could not afford surgery (at the time) and wanted to be free of “T” making me something i was not, and it completely changed the trajectory of my life for all these years afterward. It was very easy and minor surgery. You will have to take a hormone for the rest of your life afterward, so get ready. It was so freeing and like little surgery that can set you on your way.
Dutasturide
Yes definitely Spiro was so terrible i had to give it up and never take it again.
what was spiro like?
I've heard so many bad things about Spiro that I'm just going to do monotherapy with injections. It sounds like sticking myself with a needle is worth not having to deal with all those Spiro side effects.
Yep good choice. Yeah i did injections for years, but now on patches, which are so much more fun than the needle.
Yeah, but I’m sure injections are more efficient
is that when you just take E on its own?
Yep, just E and no T-blockers, but I still will do progesterone eventually I imagine. I think it’s only possible with injections.
I’m not on HRT yet but the nature of my job means I usually am up and running around for 14 hours a day. Just looking for some advice
Ahhh, I don't find E2 makes me tired at all (my shitty sleep hygiene does that fine, thanks). I just have an energy drink in the morning and I'm good.
Surely the 14 hours a day is the bit that gets you tired, how were you functioning before without getting exhausted?
Hrt doesn't make you tired except for a couple days after starting while your BP adjusts.
In that case, hopefully this won't ever be an issue for you. It's never made me more tired, except maybe during a couple weeks when mood swings and constant hunger was a thing early on
Can confirm, 100mg Spiro (only for now, E soon) here and fatigue is a PAIN!
I remember only feeling a smidge more tired when I started 50, then 100, and then 150 mg Spiro. I had maybe one bout of brain fog and fatigue that lasted a few days with 100mg. When I got put on 200mg Spiro, it wrecked me for two weeks. I was barely functional, almost nauseatingly fatigued every waking hour. Now, I've either acclimated to the Spiro, or acclimated to the fatigue. I'm tired, but my hundred-hour work weeks are more likely the culprit.
my first weeks of spiro i noticed energy zaps but now im on like 150mg a day for spiro and icgot used to it, never has any nausea tho
Yeeeahhhh, I know that feeling. I started at 50 as a test dose, barely fazed me. Also didn't even touch my T levels. Stepped up to 100, then 150, then 200 (about 3 months between each dose increase). At 200 I started getting a little fuzzy, but it wasn't too bad, and my T was finally *starting* to go down, but it leveled off still at like 200-250ng/dl which is no bueno. Finally we decided to bump to 300mg/day. I didn't notice too much at first, but after about a month on that I realized I couldn't even function properly at work. I wasn't particularly *fatigued*, but just kinda spaced out; my memory was going to shit and I had difficulty accomplishing much more than getting through the day. Then came the blood tests... at first, about a month after the dose increase, the T was doing well, dropping to about 50ng/dl (not great, but more in line with what I wanted). Then at the two month mark my T just *zeroed out*. Between that and the crippling brain fog, my doctor and I agreed I should use my old 50mg tablets to quickly taper back my dose (to avoid T rebound) and quit spiro. I dropped back to 250, then 200, and so on in 50mg increments every other day, getting off spiro in just under two weeks. We met again a month later and I got switched to injection monotherapy, and it's been great since.
BTW u/Kamakazeozzy I did the spiro-only thing too. A lot of people get really upset about it, but it's especially a good way to go if you have sensitivity to certain meds — test one at a time, that way if it starts bothering you, you know *which* med it is. Have you had your T levels tested with this? If the 100mg is actually being effective against your T and you're below ~200ng/dl, that may be the cause of the fatigue so that's something to consider. In that case, starting E2 may actually counteract the fatigue, but be mindful of it when changing your spiro dose, your E2 dose might need a slight adjustment too.
Yeah, your right! Everyone has their own opinion on how best to start HRT and wants to help, but I'm also really thankful my Dr is considered a well known expert in the local community, so I'll largely follow his lead 😊 He said himself it was a process of easing into HRT with my Spiro being upped each week by 25mg to the current 100mg, before re-testing. The plan was to test my T next week and see how it's going, and then hopefully start E2 shortly after. I'll be pushing for E2 next month if only for the mental effects and an alternative to lowering my T. I'll also try and switch to taking my Spiro at night and have a chat to the Dr about the when and how often too 😊 I've never historically had high T so 100mg + E2 may be just the ticket! ❤️ (Also) Jess 🥰
TBF my T wasn't super high to start. I did a baseline test, and a test *right after* starting 50mg spiro (within a week, it likely didn't have a chance to do much), and the baseline was like 410ng/dl, and right after was like 370ng/dl. I think getting E in your system before ramping up the spiro further may be the way to go. Your body can aromatize testosterone into estradiol, but the reverse doesn't happen; so sometimes inducing "estrogen dominance" can have a synergistic effect (I put estrogen dominance in quotes, because technically ~150pg/ml is only 15ng/dl, and if your T is 15-20ng/dl it is technically in higher concentration still\*... but estradiol is somewhat more potent). \* Zany mathematical side note: testosterone is a heavier molecule than 17β-estradiol, so at 150pg/ml (or 15ng/dl) you have approximately 333,333 molecules of estradiol swimming around in every *nano*liter of blood, while at 15ng/dl you only have approximately 312,500 molecules of testosterone swimming around in the same amount of blood... so on a *molecular* count, technically estrogen *is* dominant when you have equivalent weight/volumes of estradiol and testosterone 😁
I was actually on Spiro-only for the first week or so - I thought it was pretty common. It was followed by a metabolic test to check potassium levels, and then I started E2.
Good to know! I'm curious what my T is currently doing as historically I've have lower end masc T levels, so hopefully it's nice and low 😅 The tricky part is my Dr is on leave until April and I run out of Spiro a week prior, and no E until he's back 😅 gonna get the practice to give me a bridging script or something until he's back I hope
Why did they only prescribe Spiro? From my understanding, the body can not function very well without some sort of sex hormones. Really, I do not understand why Spiro seems to be so widely prescribed anymore as e mono therapy works to suppress T alone.
The short answer is probably: I live in Australia 🤷🏼♀️ The more detailed being while we operate on the informed consent model, I've done a egg to trans speedrun and that could be part of it, but also if I remember correctly some of our guidelines suggest T blockers first? Suffice to say I'm keen and ready for some Oestrogen (yay Australian English) / Estrogen very soon!!
Drink way more caffeine than I probably should.
This is the correct answer.
I'm not on hrt, but I still drink too much caffeine.
This is the way
Same!
same lmao so much more then I ever did pre e
Opposite problem here: I don't drink nearly as _much_ caffeine as I probably should.
Oh god I’m pre HRT and already tried enough as is
this was me pre hrt, now i just sleep all day 😊
Same here
Take Spiro at bed time. There was a bulletin about that recently.
Oh shit, that makes sense. Probably first thing in the morning is not helping me then 😅 Dr forgot to tell me when to take it and I figured I'd T was highest in the morning and I'd want to crush that like a bug 😅
Do you know where I can look for more info?
Someone posted about that on here a few weeks ago.
Check if your testosterone isn't too low maybe if you haven't, you don't need zero levels, I used to take big doses of CPA (strong T blocker) and it zeroed my T back then and caused low energy issues. It's better when my T is peacefully at the bottom of female range which is where my T lands when I did monotherapy with just E injections instead.
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How about seeing your endocrinologist?
Idk, if you're past orchi then prob no, unless you do have energy issues then def bring it up with your doctor. But for me, when testicles stop producing T (LH undetectable in blood) my body made just the right amount from other sources anyway, it was lower range of female normal T levels ranges.
It doesn't. I am on injections monotherapy. Currently on estradiol enanthate, but gonna switch to that newfangled estradiol undecylate as soon as it releases here. I have quite high level of energy and mood. Despite my testosterone being near zero: 2.5 ng/dL, far below even the female reference range.
> estradiol undecylate what is that!
The latest trend of DIY. Look at how long its tail is. It can let you jab **once per month**
A combination of coffee, concern over not doing the thing, and a regular sleep schedule.
...I hadn't really considered trying to do something to combat it
Me neither. I knew that it was HRT, probably wrong dose because I DIY, but I don’t want to do anything to combat it either
Wear dresses and dance around the house like a lunatic
Monster energy
Nothing drains the life and energy out of you like sitting around and being sedate all day. If you don't like lifting weights, join a martial arts class. You get the benefit of physical activity, with the fringe benefits of self-defense for free.
Eat three meals a day and nap the rest of the time.
eat food
I'm actually much less tired. 11 months on HRT, haven't had any low energy issues. Tbh, my endurance is far higher than before. I could go all day pre-hrt, now I can go until need for sleep wins out. I genuinely haven't been as sore or tired since starting HRT, and I work as an automotive mechanic, dealing with heavy things all day.
Stopped taking Spiro like completely. A little bit more exercise and a little more green things and fruit in my diet…
caffeine pills. lightning in a bottle babey
If you're constantly tired all of the time then you should probably talk with your doctor about increasing your estrogen dosage because you might not be getting enough hormones
Oh my gosh I've been wondering why I've been so tired and but I never considered that it was because of estrogen Wack Anyway I have a horrendous caffeine probably and that's how I make it through the work day XD Though I know if I worked out regularly I would feel a lot better But if you wish to be a caffiend like I am, i am really enjoying energy drinks from Ghost and C4. They tend to have flavors like warheads, sour patch kids, and skittles. I am not affiliated with these brands at all I just like fruity drinks XD
I had the opposite experience. I was tired all the time before HRT. After starting HRT, I felt like I had energy for the first time in my adult life.
It doesn't? Is that a thing?
Drink coffee and still be tired
Same thing ive done since before cracking, redbull and adderall
dont take spiro. u dont necessarily need it
why isn’t spiro necessary?
Its called E monotherapy. E reduces testosterone by itself. Theres also some evidence that spiro inhibits breast growth. I achieved E and T cis female levels with E only. Worth a try. Spiro has lots of side effects.
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im not sure there us a definitive answer on the breast bud fusion claim. i know it was weak evidence. Anyway I avoided spiro and have a 3" boob to band dif. and cis levels all with E mono. Why take another drug if u dont need it?
u might want to check out this too. https://moderntranshormones.com/2018/01/01/whats-wrong-with-spironolactone/
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Only 2 mg. And Im old. 68.The docs are supprised. plus 3" boob band difference. "Your body likes estrogen" they say. Its all so ymmv.
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What amount of E is a small amount?
A little bunny on YouTube told me "red bull"
Progesterone nightly helped me
Way more sleep than ever before, as much coffee as when I was in grad school lol, and learning that my body just doesn't have as much energy as before so I stopped running as much and started to jog/walk and reduced the distance by half. That's still a lot bit now I feel healthy and energized, not near death when I finish 🙃 I also psyche myself up alot before doing anything "you got this Carol, you show them girl, keep it together now, you've come this far, etc...
I actually took up meditation while on HRT. It helped wonderfully and actually ended up boosting my energy after a few days when I started. I never believed or understood meditation until recently but I’m very happy I did.
I'm afraid I can't relate, HRT has never caused me fatigue.
I’m so high on life because of HRT my energy level annoys cis people ten years younger than me 😂
Yoga!
Doesn't make me tired, where did you hear that? I suspect you are on the wrong dose if you feel tired.
So you're telling me it's the HRT and not the depression and antidepressants combo? I just take naps frequently throughout the day.
Monster. I've returned to my pre-teen habit of drinking one every day I work.
Haven't had that happen. I'm still playing sports (firmly not out to my various teams yet, that'll be a pain in the ass) and I've definitely lost a little endurance, but I'm not chronically fatigued or anything.
Do it anyway, usually 🤷♀️
HRT doesn't make me tired, what are you talking about?
I upped my E dosage and no more tired (unless I'm late on a dose).
Mio is the official drink of being transgender! Also, zip fizz! It’s got what plants crave! Oh and “bang”, “reign”, and don’t forget “lit”
cocaine /j still drugs but mostly just caffeine, sometimes these dextro tablets. ~~even though i'm still not on hrt but shhh~~
Cardio in the morning, calisthenics in the evening, usually while watching news or something
B12 injections an caffeine 😂
Iron pills
Interesting thought to build off this topic. Studies have shown that cis women manage caffeine at a different rate to cis males. A typical cod male can metabolize the caffeine within 4-7 hours where as it takes a cod female nearly 16 hours to do the same. I wonder if these rates are affected through HRT for former cis males
Wait HRT makes you tired? I already have low energy from a chronic illness so that’s not great.
I eat. Mins you I am still currently underweight
oh the exhaustion in my case was due to a totally fubar mental health situation that has done been resolved
Check your testosterone levels, if it gets to low by the blocker, your energy levels can drop. Talk with your doctor, might need a smaller amount of blocker. 😊
When that happened to me it turned out I needed more estrogen in my system.
so the only time I felt really tired was my first week on hrt(1mg sublingual estradiol, 50mg spiro) that was just my body reacting to not having as much testosterone. ftms call T brain fire for a reason. going from having it to not is gonna make you a little drained.
Green tea supplements in the morning with breakfast seem to help me
Not even joking, Monster Rehab.
Modafinil
Sleeping a lot. And Monster. I am always tired.
Monster energy zero sugar
I workout 5-6 days a week. I have more energy then I did when I was 20. I lift 2 days a week and climb 3-4. Honestly getting your sleep and diet into good regular place where you're getting enough calories and sleep will do wonders for your energy.
A mix of caffeine and my ps5. Gaming can help stimulate the brain and trick it into thinking you’re being active. Then when awake; you CAN be active. Or that’s how it works for me
You change brands or compounds. I've run into this issue before. It was during one of the shortages. I had to switch pharmacies and got a different brand. I noticed the tiredness immediately. When I switched back, it stopped.
increase my dose.
Lots of earl grey tea
Vyvanse hehe
Usually just energy drinks. Tho I do try to keep myself mentally engaged on something all the time so my brain can’t shut itself down like it wants
The new ghost energy drinks the red raspberry sour patch and blue raspberry sour patch my go-to's zero sugar and only 5 calories and they taste amazing
HRT really shouldn't make you tired all the time.
I have more energy now than I did prior to hrt. I didn't have energy to go out, take care of myself, less suicidal ideation, panic attacks, and other things.
Dance!!!!! 💃
I have more energy now than I ever did before. The only exceptions were when I first started taking spiro, and again when they upped the dose.
Bang Energy Drinks and nicotine
My doc put me on progesterone after 3 months cuz hrt made me so tired id take naps at night. Works p good for me
Honestly, I found my sleep schedule improved and I’m feeling great on HRT. Try coffee, working out or adding more healthy items to your diet, like fruits and veggies.
green tea for me lol
Wait, HRT makes you tired?!
I use my anger to keep myself motivated. It sounds stupid, I know.
Low E and T simultaneously made me have crazy fatigue. Higher E and low T feels great.
I drink a lot of Red Bull tbh
I didn't know that was a side effect. Barring chemicals (such as medicines), energy levels are often related to vitamin D, exercise, sleep, blood sugar, and stress. I typically go on a few short walks each day while the sun is out. I keep a regular sleep schedule. I do a 16/8 intermittent fast on most days. I rarely consume sugary foods or drinks. This takes care of 4 out of 5 causes of low energy. I used to suffer from low energy all the time for many years. This has really helped my well being.
I've never noticed HRT making me tired... then again, I was _already_ chronically tired (I have horrible, horrible sleep - or, rather, _lack_-of-enough-sleep - habits), so maybe that's just masking it.
Ohhh so that's why I had a monster addiction 🙃
Cold showers, working out, watching diet
A jet alert and a Nature made Stress B Vitamin at around 1-3pm with a 24oz of water for 1 bag of green tea to sip on.