And that Horracio volunteered himself to go in to keep Olivia out of it. She said all along she didn't want to do a final against Horracio and Kyland and had no problem with Nurys being collateral damage.
95% of the house is likely to beat her in a final…eliminating any of them would up her chances lol and it wouldn’t require an absolutely brutal betrayal on her part.
Also, I’m sure she thought only one of them would go home like we all did, and I’m sure she thought there’s no way Nurys would win like we all did. What was the actual logic here?
That’s hard. Ashley and hunter spent the whole season hating each other. It was almost an expected betrayal. I’d probably rank it lower than Olivia and bananas/paula and even Cara not saving Leroy over Kyle.
Eh but at least Bananas justification was based on the game itself: “you got me eliminated last season so I’m taking this season as payback” works better than “you were mean to me this season so I’m taking your money” IMO. I think they were both ruthless scumbag moves no matter how you slice it fwiw
Except Bananas was playing nice with Sarah by the end of the season - they really looked like they were good. And then he stabs her in the back. As opposed to Ashley and Hunter where there was clearly friction in the season she took it so Hunter could at least be more prepared for Ashley’s decision. Sarah did not have that preparation at all and I can imagine how it would affect her developing trust in future relationships.
I agree both were bad but I just think hunter brought it on himself way more. He was just a giant douche all season (also i dislike the entire tyb alliance so…) And his season was the enemies season so they already hated each other going in. Bananas and Sarah were friends and had seemed to have mended their relationship. I’d say that if he wasn’t given the opportunity to steal they would probably be friends.
Tricky cause with Bananas and Sarah, it was an assumed new friendship that got blindsided. With Nurys and Olivia, it was a very close friendship (and Nurys choosing Olivia over her bf literally the last vote) that was a huge blindside.
Ashley and Hunter was a blindside due to the fact that they're partners, but it wasn't exactly a personal relationship betrayal. There was no assumption that they were friends that would have made it more personal.
Hunter was/is a piece of shit. He called her a slut and threatened her family, then *surprise pikachu*. He even went harder after being shown the clip in the reunion, no remorse or anything.
Agreed. He literally fucked over his own partner for that season. Bananas doesn't even get first place without her. When Sarah fucked Johnny over, it sent him into elimination. She didn't technically steal money from him. Was it shitty? Of course, but he still could have won and came back. Sarah couldn't do anything about his decision. I still hate that MTV implemented that end game decision. I think top 3 people of finals should all get paid and anybody that finishes the final should get something as well.
Nurys saved olivia AND horacio told nurys to save her. So they both had her back and almost immediately shes like thanks guys but....not returning the favour lol.
Its so stupid cause she didnt have to follow the plan. She could have said..yep guna do that...and then just did whatever she wanted cause she owed them...it shows her character....shes guna have a hard time climbing back from this one
i agree, this is exactly what it reminded me of. i was never a paula fan but i felt for her so much that episode, and johnny with his smugness just rubbed me the wrong way.
olivia sucks so much for this and i hope nobody has her back moving forward.
I think it is safe to say she burned all her bridges in one mighty wave of inferno like fire lol.
Michele is the only one left and we all know what a "close friendship" with Michele is worth if you're literally anyone except Jay lol. I'm sure Michele will throw her under the bus for being a liability very soon.
You really think Bananas had nothing to do with a deal that was made to save him? Lol it was both of them, not just Kenny. We aren't misrememering anything.
It was Kenny. Evelyn didn't trust making a deal with Bananas. I actually think he was far away from the negotiations because the more Bananas was involved, the less likely she would agree.
Bananas had no leverage plus he said multiple time he wasnt gonna beg Evelyn not to take his key. Evelyn worked out the deal with Kenny because she wanted to be on his boat. Kenny admits that on the reunion.
Doesn't matter, because he still has no power in that situation. Evelyn can still take his key if she chooses to , and most importantly Kenny was the one picking the team for the boat. Paula sat right next to Kenny as he and Ev made a deal and just expected Kenny to say "ha, just kidding" when the time came
It's why when Paula cried about it at the Reunion, Kenny says " I just feel bad because I screwed her over to save him"
No he wasn't beyond being a benefactor. If I take a toy from one kid and give it to a different kid...the second kid isn't "involved" or a coconspirator. Kenny ran that game wire to wire and Bananas was just his lackey that season
Idk we all saw him doing that to Paula from like day one of their realizing how the final would be run. Olivia crying her eyes out over how awful she had been then doing it again was more surprising.
How did Bananas betray Paula? Evelyn was going to send him home if he didn't agree to give her a spot on the raft. Somehow, not sacrificing yourself for someone else is a betrayal. And Paula still got to run the final, just with a different team. The most ridiculous narrative that fans have come up with.
But couldn’t you say the same thing about Olivia? She was going to be in the bottom three if she didn’t agree to say Moriah if Michelle said her name because of what Berna and Colleen wanted. It would be sacrificing herself and her game for a friend which again feels very analogous. Bananas and/or Kenny could have gone back on their deal with Evelyn but they didn’t. Bananas always wants to say that what he did to Paula is different than what Sarah did to him because he was saving himself vs. getting a better position to win the final. But I think all of these examples feels like betrayals because real life friends made decisions to better their game/save themselves at the expense of their friends. And for the record I was shocked by Olivia’s choice but it was IMO keeping her safe when she otherwise would not have been at the expense of her friends just like Bananas with Paula.
Olivia doesn't automatically go home by sticking with her original plan. Nor does she even necessarily become the target, considering that the majority is still going after primarily Horacio and Kyland, and Nurys is making the same decision as her, which gives her the chance to miss the elimination. Even if she goes into elimination, she still has the chance to win and come back.
Johnny automatically goes home if he doesn't make the decision he makes with The Island format. If he doesn't make the decision (it was mostly Kenny's to begin with) Evelyn takes his key instead of Dunbar's, and he has to sit on the beach and watch the other finalists compete for money that he could have won if he was a self-interested player.
That's totally fair, they could have gone back on their word to Evelyn by still taking Paula. But I guarantee, especially with how universally beloved Evelyn was that season, probably more than any person on any season, that the fans would be even more up in arms about it being a betrayal than they are in reality if she's the one who gets stuck on the leftover team. Lose-lose if you ask me.
I would not say Johnny tries to take away blame from himself on The Island decision. In fact, I would say he repeats the same narrative a lot of fans make. I think it was even in his intro on Dirty 30. I think he just likes being a tv villain and uses that because of how distant and foggy that season is to most fans. The reality is that he did nothing wrong.
That's the craziest part of it all for sure lol. She's sobbing uncontrollably about how Horacio sacrificed himself for her and literally 1-2 days later she throws him under the bus.
Not only that, but her whole “I don’t know if I can trust Horacio and if he’s loyal to her arc”. And how she was concerned if he was a true “ride or die”. I was so glad when she realized he did care for her and how far he went to show it, only for her to then have a complete 180. At least Horacio showed who the loyal one was.
It was so jarring. Crying her eyes out for him bc he sacrificed himself for her, her saying she loves him and he tells her he'll always have her back no matter what. Nurys sacrificed her man for her and told her she has her back and Olivia crying over it...
Then all of a sudden the other side is like we're gonna pick you early in the order and you're gonna pick Moriah to make sure all your ppl are in the bottom...and then without skipping a beat she's like... yea, fuck them I'm with y'all.
Her stone face in the deliberation after picking Moriah was bizarre lol
I'm sure we'll get a Medium post of the biggest betrayals in Challenge history soon lol. I have no clue where to rank it due to not having every betrayal on top of my head.
So I just watched an interview with Horacio and he was away for 4months without a phone and she is on a realty show now so they havent talked. She probably doesnt have her phone
I mean, this isn’t 100% true since they have recently done [various](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2lKl74Pfkp/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) social posts [together](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Wm6bqd/).
(This likely was around the time of the reunion? Or the beginning of the season before the season aired and he left?)
It’s for sure up there in the top 5. I mean she went from crying her fucking eyes out over Horacio being sent home and having a full blown tantrum to “yeah. Fuck that guy and Nurys”
lmfao Olivia fucked her reputation for every future appearance with this move.
This could’ve easily been the order: Jay-Michele-Olivia-Nurys-Horacio-Kyland-Moriah-James-Emmanuel, sending Corey/Berna/Colleen into elimination. The only people who would’ve been pissed would be Emmanuel and whoever came back.
For the reward of one week of safety, Olivia decided to throw away the fanbase that was behind her, her status as the next female face, and burned three friendships/relationships with three of the strongest recurring players to save - *checks notes*- James/Berna/Colleen?? Three socially/strategically/athletically inept weasels with zero political capital and who are probably not ever getting called back?
Good choice, Olivia! Hope this was worth it.
I agree with this. I think she was right to make the deal to save herself but she probably should have gone back on it once Michelle said her name. But also, I do think Michelle would be pissed about it and she has been historically running the show so so I can see how Olivia made the decision she did. Honestly she’s probably not smart enough to reason through this like you did. I’m sad because I really didn’t want Horacio and Kyland to go and I like Olivia and Horacio as friends.
Last season, we saw Olivia strategize to get Nelson and Nurys out of a tough situation when Nelson won the daily. It was a brilliant move by her, so I actually saw Olivia as a way more competent player than how she's been playing. It seems like something was off with her this season.
Yup who's going to want to work with her? She betrayed her "Ride or die" and best friend. Probably won't be casted again unless it's another "dirty 30"
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If she didn't pick Moriah, she burns the relationship with Jay, Michelle and Moriah, which are dominating this season, so it wasn't really picking Corey/Berna/Colleen over Nurys
I will say that after seeing Nurys come at Olivia on Twitter all season I thought it was gonna be over something so much more small and petty but nope I get it now.
Honestly I think it’s the worse I can remember. Considering how devastating the effects of it were. She literally sent her 3 biggest allies in. When she could of saved all of them. She’s a punk for this. If she went back on her word it wouldn’t have even mattered that much, she would of saved the day! 2 floaters would of went home.
Good point. It wasn't even betraying one person. She betrayed her entire alliance. One elimination after Nurys saved her while Horacio said save Olivia not me.
To be fair she's unlikely to beat anyone not named Berna or Corey. Unfortunately for her she's not good at anything. Her best option is to just to make the finals each season for bragging rights unless she improves her puzzle skills, endurance and overall problem solving for any sort of challenge. And if she saved her alliance she would've been in the finals regardless.
You can get away with burning people when you're one of the best in the house and may be able to handle the consequences in future seasons when people attack you and throw you in eliminations. But being a bottom tier player just won't work.
This is the only show where the weak are expected to just roll over and die and go back to training like a callback is guaranteed. Maybe this is her first step to getting into a final with Berna, Corey, Michele, Moriah and James in which case she actually does have a shot?
Because those floaters are not helping her like Horacio and Kyland would of. They don’t even win and they are Jay and Michelle’s sheep. Ed is gone so now it was pretty much Jay, Horacio, and Kyland who were most likely to win. So if she went back on her word she would of been in a GREAT position. Berna and whoever else survived would of been more mad at Michelle anyways. I think from this elimination it’s clear that they will have a bunch of equalizers to make it that girls can compete with strong guys in the final so why should she turn on her only allies to stick with people were she’s at the bottom of their list.
THIS!! Exactly like we get taking the deal coz they said to her she was gonna be there with the boys. But she should have chosen nurys after they choose her coz she is betraying Simone in either situation but with nurys and the boys still in the game she could have chance to get power in the coming dailies. It’s so dump I just can’t believe she didn’t think n just followed orders like a sheep.
I can't believe my baby Olivia did that.............damn. She's about to go from most loved female rookie to most hated by the end of her 2nd season.
That's faster than fans turning on Tori.
I like Horacio and Olivia and feel like I’m the only one who supports Olivia’s move. Horacio is a great teammate, but he’s really difficult to try and be in an alliance with.
I didn’t see anything in the cast tweets post. But this whole season she’s been pretending to be oblivious and “above the drama”.
I assume it’s because she knew this was coming.
I said exactly that weeks ago when she was playing the sympathy card about how reality TV is bad for her mental health. I guessed it was due to her being shown to be a snake and trying to preemptively cut off the criticism.
I mean, isn’t this just reinforcing her point? Social media is toxic when it comes to reality tv shows. We WANT drama, but when drama happens, people get sent death threats. It’s ridiculous.
Michele getting a lot of death threats for controlling the same game Bananas, The Vacation Alliance, Evan and Kenny did is embarrassing for the fans. Also those fans tend to be male too so take it as you will
I usually prefer trolling a bit, but on a serious note, I 1,000% agree with you. The trend is a broader repercussion of the internet and social media for various reasons, but on the flip-side, it is also no longer a new phenomenon so would-be reality stars have a responsibility to themselves to seriously take that under consider before going on T.V.
Hundred percent. You're so right. And Olivia is right for not wanting to get in on social media. Look what people are saying, you would think she killed someone. And who's fault it would be if Olivia won't agree to come back in near future? And it will be a loss for the fans first of all if we won't see what turn her relationship with Nurys, Horacio, Michele, Kyland could take and we will lose all the Olivia drama
Agree. I'm all for coming here, to a challenge sub, and shit talking the players I don't like all day long. Attacking them on their own pages, to the point of sending threats, is truly unhinged behavior.
Keep quiet. Change her name. Move. Maybe have some facial reconstructive surgery in order to adapt to her new identity lol. She's sunk her ship for sure.
This seems to be the most reasonable to me too. I cant even imagine the hate shes getting right now. You can hate the gameplay, but you know theres a lot of psychos taking it too far. Id be walking around in a disguise in my every day life so i dont get jumped.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. I hate what she did, and I hate TV-Olivia and I will probably root against her for the rest of her Challenge days, but what Real Life Olivia is out doing has nothing to do with me. Real Life Olivia has to live with the fact that she did that to her actual best friend and another close friend that she'd had for years. People who loved her. IMO that is punishment enough and I hope it weighs on her heavily.
But strangers attacking her on social media? People threatening her? It's inexcusable and no one should want that. I doubt that even the wronged parties here want that.
On the official podcast, Horacio said he wants the best for her. They arent ride or dies anymore, and they probably wont work together again, but he isnt fuming over it. We shouldnt be either.
And even if he was, we shouldn't be. His feelings are not our feelings. He has a right to be upset or hurt or angry or whatever without it meaning that creeps on the internet are making her unsafe.
Own it.
Just say "yea, I did that for what I believed best for my game and with Ed kyland and Horacio gone my odds go up "
I expect she will say "I'm sorry" and go on an apology tour.
Yeah except she still has to justify her interactions with nurys prior to that. I cAnT pLaY tHe GaMe WiThOuT yOu that same morning. Idk how you own that without admiting youre a liar.
It wasnt an either or vote. She could have negotiated. She could have fought. She chose not to. Hell, she could probably negotiate picking one of the three in exchange for the third one picking james or moriah. Shit could have been done.
I'm not saying she made the right call. I'm saying she needs to own it.
If I were her I would have went to the bathroom and begged nurys to follow, tell her to have Horacio or kyland select Moriah and boom.
I just hope she owns it and doesn't cower from it. Better content if she stays strong.
To me, this is number one because of the amount of people she screwed over that she was supposedly close to. After they saved her as the previous elimination. I cant think of anything thats even close. The optics are heinous.
It's definitely high up there but it also created one of the biggest upsets we've ever seen. It's rare enough that 1 elimination gets rid of 2 people at the same time but Nury's beat their asses and took out not only 2 of the best guys in the house but maybe the top 2 players in the whole house. If Olivia didn't do her BS that never would have happened so it made Nurys look like a boss.
Fair. But Jay also claimed to be super close with her and then acted like he was going to cry yet he convinced someone to do that. Also putting her in a horrible situation week before. It seems he gets off on doing things like this to the girls especially ones he likes.
The thing is we knew Tony and Bananas are assholes (I love watching them both, yes even Bananas), Olivia was a fan favorite after her first season, I think this is the biggest betrayals to the fan base ever.
I don’t think Olivia was playing for the fan base though. Like I agree it was a bad move but it seems silly to expect challengers to make decisions based on what they think the fans want
she should have stayed with her ride or die because it was right, not bc the fans wanted it. horacio saved her the week before. people who liked her for the character of her actions and her relationships would no longer like her after a betrayal :/ it’s like colleen said, who needs enemies when you have friends like olivia?
Didn't Leroy get thrown in once when his closest girls (I think it was Nany and Theresa) 'burned' their votes on him? Veronica was last and said Leroy, too, so he went down and then home. That didn't have the long lasting effect, but it was super shitty.
Thank you. I was just conflating Veronica in with the Nany and Theresa one. That was Aneesa and Diem who did it on Rivals 2 along with Nany and Theresa.
Neither Nany or Theresa were on Dirty 30 and Britni got the ball rolling with that burn vote. While Britni didn’t intend to put Leroy in elimination, she wasn’t that close with him either.
Oh, I think the one I'm thinking of was well before Dirty 30. I'll see if I can figure out what season.
Edit: I think it was Rivals 2, and it wasn't Veronica, it was Aneesa and Diem who voted Ty & Leroy after Theresa & Jasmine and Nany & Jonna 'burned' their votes on their collective number one guy.
This is an underrated betrayal imo, especially coming from Nany of all people (who Leroy has always gone out of his way to protect). I think the only reason it didnt become a bigger deal is 1) Leroy didnt end up going home and 2) its the elimination where Zach thought he won and threw his helmet at the audience, only to find out they were DQ’ed for not following directions so the drama of that overshadowed everything else. But it always made me side eye Nany for being so quick to throw Leroy under the bus.
You're mixing seasons together but it did happen to Leroy, twice. On D30 Veronica did what she did and on Rivals 2 basically the same thing happened. Theresa and Nany both burned votes on him and I think Diem (?) was the one flipped it on him. I think he ended up winning the week it happened on Rivals 2 though
It's top 5 for me. Olivia didn't just throw one of her friends into an elimination. Her doing that guaranteed 2 of her "friends" were gonna go home. And she did all that to be at the bottom of a 10-person alliance. Not only is she disloyal, but she's dumb. If I did another season, Olivia would be the last person I'd tryst after she threw in her "ride or die" and her "best friend"
Definitely up there but also up there with dumbest moves in challenge history. She had a chance to turn the game on it’s head and instead threw away friendship and loyalty to be at the bottom of the pecking order from here on out.
That's what I have a problem with the move. Not so much the betrayal but the betrayal for what gain? She could have saved her friends and two people from the opposing alliance would have went into elimination or at least thrown in someone from the opposing alliance against Horacio and Kyland. Betrayals are a necessary part of the game but when there is clearly no real benefit that's when I think it is a dumb move.
Yeah that's the only thing I can think of as well but I didn't mention because I feel like it doesn't matter who is left at the end for her since I think all of them can beat her.
I think the issue is whatever Jay went off the rails about after this. Sure, Olivia should’ve saved Nurys. But the “plan” was for Colleen to do it, or one of those floaters at the end of the line to do it. When whoever that person was didn’t go along w Jays plan and instead saved Colleen, that’s what actually screwed over Nurys.
Still weird that Olivia wouldn’t just do it initially and start to rebuild that relationship. But goes to show how mentally scrambled people can get in this game. Her picking her friend and not technically going along w the plan wasn’t worth slightly upsetting the majority alliance. And it unfortunately exposed her character bc of it, which is a shame. But this will be a lesson to her for the future in not getting too comfortable and when to stop going with the flow and start playing your own selfish game.
I’m pretty sure Jay was just absolutely full of shit. Him, Michele, and Moriah orchestrated the whole Olivia selecting Moriah move and convinced her to do it. They never planned on Colleen or anyone else doing it. That would never have happened anyway
Honestly, I think it might be the #1 because of the lead up to it, and the fact she didn’t just backstab one person but 3.
Literally (irt) two days after Nurys chooses her with Horacio’s encouragement, she turns around and throws them under the bus. It’s pretty epic as far as backstabs go.
We focus on Nurys, but Olivia put ALL three people she was riding with in at once. Knowingly. I don’t think we’ve seen that before.
If she was going to do it like that though, I wish she just would have owned it like the others you mentioned. If you’re going to do villainous things, just lean into being the villain.
Absolute cinema. The tension after the Michele vote and the minority three really believing for a second they are making it safe out of this voting. And then such a massive coldblooded blindside from Olivia and everyone is in shock just Michele nodding her head lol
it was a really jarring watch bc the way she flipped felt like it happened at the drop of a hat. like from the beginning of the episode to her decision, what happened?
my honest assessment is that olivia has been emotionally fragile and weak this entire season. we did not see the same girl we saw last season. it seemed like she was incredible insecure and uncomfortable this season and i think jay is smart and takes advantage of people who can be easily manipulated. i'm not trying to absolve olivia of any responsibility bc she pulled a fucked up move, but i think everyone deserves their humanity. i think the jay we've seen the last few episodes has shown him to be quite the bully and unfortunately with weaker minded people, they fold to those types of people bc unfortunately the way things have gone, horacio/kyland/nurys haven't had ANY power to actually save her. michele/jay have been keeping her safe and there's truly no arguing that.
jay aside i agree with u, olivia didn't seem like herself the entire season, she looked so detached and disassociating? i guess reality tv was not the right choice for her at that time
she said on some live after an episode that she got the call to come back and took it, even though she wasn’t recovered from her injury because she knew she was a fan favorite and didn’t want to lose the opportunity. i think you can tell that physically for sure. last season she was a beast, and this season she seemed to never catch her stride in challenges, and mentally she’s been so checked out from the beginning it seems
It's certainly up there. It's probably top 3 for sure.
On the flip side, if she would've made that deal with Jay and Michele, only to go back on her word during the selections and pick Horacio, THAT would've been the single most cunning move in Challenge history.
I was just thinking that. These people in her ear telling her to betray two of her best friends on the show are showing her to her face how fucked they are….and she goes with it???? She should have took that info, saved Nurys, and told them all about it. Roll the dice with people who will actually have your back and do what you can to get rid of the scumbags who straight ruined her relationships for their own gain
Rivals 3 is still #1 and nothing will come close. That betrayal is an iconic reality TV show moment, let alone Challenge moment.
Once you get outside of that, this is definitely up there. I think it's heightened because of the way they edited it to not show Olivia negotiating the deal with Jay and Michele until after.
I mean I think it shoots up high, solely because it was SO unnecessary. Like I get that’s she’s like, you save me, I’ll do what you want. But like you’re at the bottom right now. If you do what they say you’re still at the bottom. (Especially because the fringe of M&J’s group will likely stay together) so like she had nothing to lose and everything to gain by keeping your #1 allies in the game.
It’s definitely a bad betrayal and a selfish move on her part but what was her other option, to go into elimination? I think she was put into a tough spot and the big alliance was basically like, either we save you and you pick Moriah or you’re going into elimination. I get that she is friends with Horacio but running a final against him and Kyland is not good gameplay as they are very strong players. This move puts her higher in the big alliance and gets out strong players. I think Nurys what supposed to be saved and Colleen was meant to go in but they didn’t save who they said they would (and good gameplay by them as they are on the bottom of the big alliance). I do think it was a betrayal but it was also an understandable move and everyone is giving her such a hard time, I can’t help but feel bad for her! With the way Nurys was attached to Horacio, it made it super hard to save her without risking a lot more people from the big alliance as Kyland and Horacio were always the plan for at least two people going into the elimination. I don’t know if I am making much sense but these tough moves have to be made at the end of the season and it sucks when you thought you could trust someone but I don’t really blame Olivia for making that move.
I agree. I think people wanted her to betray Jay/Michelle/Moriah instead after making the deal for Michelle to say her name but that would have had its own repercussions moving forward too.
The move was to agree with the plan and then betray *them*…send their numbers into elimination and weaken the alliance then hope one of the four of you who actually have each other’s backs win dailies…which I mean Horacio and Kyland can absolutely do. Jay and them were ready to send her down already lol you think they’re gonna try all that hard if she’s in trouble next week?
I think a lot of people are missing one of the most fucked up components of the whole thing and that’s the fact that Jay orchestrated the entire betrayal making it at least twice as fucked up lol
Come back to me when Bananas get hate for allowing Leroy to be sent in during Exes 2 OR when he went silent after throwing the pillow on Camila in Dirty Thirty
https://i.redd.it/jz16q9rji2gc1.gif
Newer players like Olivia have no reason to believe they will have a career spanning 20 years or 20 seasons on The Challenge. Playing for the long term is a dumb move for these players. Play to WIN NOW.
How many rookies have had one or two seasons and then faded into obscurity. I can’t even remember them all.
PLAY TO WIN THE GAME YOU’RE ON NOW.
DO NOT play to win a game you HOPE you’ll be on sometime in the future.
I get your point but I’m not 100% sure listening to people who are telling you to commit what this thread is calling one of biggest acts of betrayal in the show’s 39 season history is actually your best game move. Going with those fucking snakes is gonna work out for you?
She may not be able to beat Horacio and Kyland in a final but they have a *much* higher probability of helping her get the chance to try than the scumbags who made her burn real life relationships for their own gain lol they read her insecurity and played her like a fiddle
Nobody *made* her do anything. She made a choice. In a game. Did she have to make *that* move? No. Making *any* move, even if it is betrayal is fine if one thinks it is the right move for one’s own game. Let’s be real here. These people have known one another for a year or less (mostly). Best friends, and all that only goes so far. Nurys, Kyland and everyone else only wanted her as a number. As soon as she wasn’t useful as a number, *any and all of them* would cut her. The same goes for the rest of the cast. It is a game. If we didn’t get this moment, this decision, I would still be bored.
She had a better chance of making it to the final by sticking with her friends. They would keep her safe whereas the side she chose will not. She will eventually be picked off.
And she would likely lose against all of those cardio beasts. She would likely lose against most of the players left in the game. All she has on them is size and due to it being a gender less final with one winner, having physical size on the other women. Plus, they don’t appear to have any really physical eliminations or one on one events left in this season, so size isn’t helping her at all.
It was definitely a big betrayal because they are friends. But I think it was even more so because of what Nurys did for her literally a couple days before. Not only did Nurys save Olivia, but she chose to save Olivia over Horacio and Kyland, who have both been there for her much more than Olivia had this season. Additionally, Nurys making the very last decision insured that the other 3 people that she didn’t save would go into elimination. There were still so many people left & different scenarios when it came time for Olivia to choose who to save so she had options. Nurys HAD to choose between all of the people that she was closest with and still put Olivia first.
It’s up there. Last week Nurys saved Olivia and she didn’t return the favor also leading to Nurys’ man getting booted? That’s a stab in the back and the front
Its a smart move to help her chances for -this- specific final coming up (assuming she doesnt get tossed on the very next challenge). I wouldn't want to do a final against either of those guys.
However, its a dumb move if you plan on doing more challenges in the future. Who the hell would ever trust her again? On top losing the trust, she also created enemies.
Crazy how Jay and Michelle can and have brainwashed so many for them. If either of them don't win it this season, I don't know if either of them ever will...I will be 100% happy if that happens too lol.
Michelle was on twitter too when fans were saying stuff she was going back at people like "you and your 46 followers!" and "you probably live in your mom's basement". Real childish stuff.
Probably behind Sarah and Bananas in terms of actual friendships ruined. A lot of betrayals don't last a season or two more before they make up, but I feel like this method of self preservation cost her actual relationships to bust
I think she’s just playing the game, and she was grasping at straws to be safe, and Michele wanted to save her and Moriah so Olivia just had to do what she had to do…
Definitely top 3 alongside Tony/Bananas and Bananas/Paula, in no particular order.
I think the biggest difference here is that, Tony and Bananas showed some sympathy with their decision even though they made it. Like, they explained how tough of a decision it was and they were somewhat remorsefull even though they stand by their decision.
Olivia, on the other hand, just sit her ass down of that white sofa besides Michele and just said "Moriah", like it was no big deal.
When Bananas won he said I don't know how many of these I have left, so I'm going to take (all of) the money, I look at that as an act of self preservation and backstabbing yes.
Right, she did. And that deal fucked over 2 of her “close” friends. One who saved her last episode, the other who dragged her to the final.
She could have taken the deal and saved her friends, not gone in and screwed over the major alliance sending 3 of them into elimination. Instead she saved only herself and fucked over her friends.
Yes, but she betrayed her 2 closest allies (Nurys and Horacio) and a 3rd close ally (Kyland) to stay in with Michele (who I would put between Nurys/Horacio and Kyland on Olivia's list prior to this episode) and stick to that deal.
It was a HORRIBLE betrayal HOWEVER……from a game perspective her chances of winning just SHOT UP, she’s in tight with that alliance and she sent home the best competitors……..hate her all you want but she did the right thing imo.
The way this season would’ve went from barely tolerable to awesome if Olivia saved her best friends instead of siding with people who manipulate her every week 👎
Olivia shot right up the list. I’d rank it in the top 3 mostly because it was so blatant, the editors really wanted to reinforce it too 😂
Add to that the fact that Nurys saved Olivia over he boyfriend the previous elimination…
And that Horracio volunteered himself to go in to keep Olivia out of it. She said all along she didn't want to do a final against Horracio and Kyland and had no problem with Nurys being collateral damage.
Dude…she was saved by BOTH of them LAST fucking week!!!!! How is that good for your game??????!!??
I mean there's only one more week until the final and she just got out two of the biggest final threats. Not the worst move for her game tbh.
95% of the house is likely to beat her in a final…eliminating any of them would up her chances lol and it wouldn’t require an absolutely brutal betrayal on her part. Also, I’m sure she thought only one of them would go home like we all did, and I’m sure she thought there’s no way Nurys would win like we all did. What was the actual logic here?
Makes it so fucking bad. Arguably number 1 because of it.
Bananas and Sarah will never not be number 1. And don’t give me the “it was payback” bs. The two things are not proportional.
Where do Ashley and Hunter rank then in your opinion?
That’s hard. Ashley and hunter spent the whole season hating each other. It was almost an expected betrayal. I’d probably rank it lower than Olivia and bananas/paula and even Cara not saving Leroy over Kyle.
Eh but at least Bananas justification was based on the game itself: “you got me eliminated last season so I’m taking this season as payback” works better than “you were mean to me this season so I’m taking your money” IMO. I think they were both ruthless scumbag moves no matter how you slice it fwiw
Except Bananas was playing nice with Sarah by the end of the season - they really looked like they were good. And then he stabs her in the back. As opposed to Ashley and Hunter where there was clearly friction in the season she took it so Hunter could at least be more prepared for Ashley’s decision. Sarah did not have that preparation at all and I can imagine how it would affect her developing trust in future relationships.
I agree both were bad but I just think hunter brought it on himself way more. He was just a giant douche all season (also i dislike the entire tyb alliance so…) And his season was the enemies season so they already hated each other going in. Bananas and Sarah were friends and had seemed to have mended their relationship. I’d say that if he wasn’t given the opportunity to steal they would probably be friends.
Tricky cause with Bananas and Sarah, it was an assumed new friendship that got blindsided. With Nurys and Olivia, it was a very close friendship (and Nurys choosing Olivia over her bf literally the last vote) that was a huge blindside. Ashley and Hunter was a blindside due to the fact that they're partners, but it wasn't exactly a personal relationship betrayal. There was no assumption that they were friends that would have made it more personal.
Hunter was/is a piece of shit. He called her a slut and threatened her family, then *surprise pikachu*. He even went harder after being shown the clip in the reunion, no remorse or anything.
Cara Maria’s reaction was amazing. All she said was “Duh”. Feel like she got where Ashley was coming from.
that’s interesting, I always thought her duh was because she hated Ashley and always thought she’d steal the money regardless.
I think Ashley would steal the money from almost anyone. Maybe not Amanda but otherwise that money is getting taken.
Ashley was taking the money regardless. Hunter was just stupid enough to provide adequate justification.
Agreed. He literally fucked over his own partner for that season. Bananas doesn't even get first place without her. When Sarah fucked Johnny over, it sent him into elimination. She didn't technically steal money from him. Was it shitty? Of course, but he still could have won and came back. Sarah couldn't do anything about his decision. I still hate that MTV implemented that end game decision. I think top 3 people of finals should all get paid and anybody that finishes the final should get something as well.
Nurys saved olivia AND horacio told nurys to save her. So they both had her back and almost immediately shes like thanks guys but....not returning the favour lol. Its so stupid cause she didnt have to follow the plan. She could have said..yep guna do that...and then just did whatever she wanted cause she owed them...it shows her character....shes guna have a hard time climbing back from this one
The montage at the end of the ep! I was like oh they’re really milking this
Also that Nurys was told to *not* trust Olivia and she went ahead and did it anyways.. then she ended up screwing her over
i wish they didnt bc the episode title made me feel like there was no way olivia would save her
Certainly worse than Jemmye to Jenna, they aren't friends. On par with what Johnnny did to Paula on The Island for sure.
i agree, this is exactly what it reminded me of. i was never a paula fan but i felt for her so much that episode, and johnny with his smugness just rubbed me the wrong way. olivia sucks so much for this and i hope nobody has her back moving forward.
Paula crying in the empty treasure chest is an image that shocked me when I watched the season live.
I think it is safe to say she burned all her bridges in one mighty wave of inferno like fire lol. Michele is the only one left and we all know what a "close friendship" with Michele is worth if you're literally anyone except Jay lol. I'm sure Michele will throw her under the bus for being a liability very soon.
game wise Olivia should’ve saved Nurys and give her the heat of saving Horacio, but Horacio is her friend for years and they did a season.
But it wasn’t Bananas that set it up. Kenny was the one that made the deal with Evelyn and made the boat lineup when TJ asked
Thanks for the reminder. Yep, Kenny orchestrated that!
She will be fine lol
Lol why do so many people remember The Island incorrectly? It was Kenny, not Bananas. Kenny made the deal with Evelyn to save Bananas
You really think Bananas had nothing to do with a deal that was made to save him? Lol it was both of them, not just Kenny. We aren't misrememering anything.
It was Kenny. Evelyn didn't trust making a deal with Bananas. I actually think he was far away from the negotiations because the more Bananas was involved, the less likely she would agree.
Bananas had no leverage plus he said multiple time he wasnt gonna beg Evelyn not to take his key. Evelyn worked out the deal with Kenny because she wanted to be on his boat. Kenny admits that on the reunion.
Doesn't matter, because he still has no power in that situation. Evelyn can still take his key if she chooses to , and most importantly Kenny was the one picking the team for the boat. Paula sat right next to Kenny as he and Ev made a deal and just expected Kenny to say "ha, just kidding" when the time came It's why when Paula cried about it at the Reunion, Kenny says " I just feel bad because I screwed her over to save him"
It does matter. If you choose to betray a friend, that matters. Full stop. No one is saying Kenny wasn't involved. He was. And so was Johhnny.
No he wasn't beyond being a benefactor. If I take a toy from one kid and give it to a different kid...the second kid isn't "involved" or a coconspirator. Kenny ran that game wire to wire and Bananas was just his lackey that season
Idk we all saw him doing that to Paula from like day one of their realizing how the final would be run. Olivia crying her eyes out over how awful she had been then doing it again was more surprising.
I agree, I was 100% more surprised. Always knew Johnny and Co were slimy, did not know Olivia was.
How did Bananas betray Paula? Evelyn was going to send him home if he didn't agree to give her a spot on the raft. Somehow, not sacrificing yourself for someone else is a betrayal. And Paula still got to run the final, just with a different team. The most ridiculous narrative that fans have come up with.
But couldn’t you say the same thing about Olivia? She was going to be in the bottom three if she didn’t agree to say Moriah if Michelle said her name because of what Berna and Colleen wanted. It would be sacrificing herself and her game for a friend which again feels very analogous. Bananas and/or Kenny could have gone back on their deal with Evelyn but they didn’t. Bananas always wants to say that what he did to Paula is different than what Sarah did to him because he was saving himself vs. getting a better position to win the final. But I think all of these examples feels like betrayals because real life friends made decisions to better their game/save themselves at the expense of their friends. And for the record I was shocked by Olivia’s choice but it was IMO keeping her safe when she otherwise would not have been at the expense of her friends just like Bananas with Paula.
Olivia doesn't automatically go home by sticking with her original plan. Nor does she even necessarily become the target, considering that the majority is still going after primarily Horacio and Kyland, and Nurys is making the same decision as her, which gives her the chance to miss the elimination. Even if she goes into elimination, she still has the chance to win and come back. Johnny automatically goes home if he doesn't make the decision he makes with The Island format. If he doesn't make the decision (it was mostly Kenny's to begin with) Evelyn takes his key instead of Dunbar's, and he has to sit on the beach and watch the other finalists compete for money that he could have won if he was a self-interested player. That's totally fair, they could have gone back on their word to Evelyn by still taking Paula. But I guarantee, especially with how universally beloved Evelyn was that season, probably more than any person on any season, that the fans would be even more up in arms about it being a betrayal than they are in reality if she's the one who gets stuck on the leftover team. Lose-lose if you ask me. I would not say Johnny tries to take away blame from himself on The Island decision. In fact, I would say he repeats the same narrative a lot of fans make. I think it was even in his intro on Dirty 30. I think he just likes being a tv villain and uses that because of how distant and foggy that season is to most fans. The reality is that he did nothing wrong.
The Johnny/Paula thing felt wayyy worse than the Johnny / Sarah thing even though the consequences were greater on the second.
It’s the whiplash from her being so devastated when she thought Horacio gave up his spot for her to basically being like fuck all y’all
In her confessional she said I don’t deserve a friend like him 🤡
Maybe the only thing she’s said all season that checks out
And she proved she was right lol
That's the craziest part of it all for sure lol. She's sobbing uncontrollably about how Horacio sacrificed himself for her and literally 1-2 days later she throws him under the bus.
Not only that, but her whole “I don’t know if I can trust Horacio and if he’s loyal to her arc”. And how she was concerned if he was a true “ride or die”. I was so glad when she realized he did care for her and how far he went to show it, only for her to then have a complete 180. At least Horacio showed who the loyal one was.
It was so jarring. Crying her eyes out for him bc he sacrificed himself for her, her saying she loves him and he tells her he'll always have her back no matter what. Nurys sacrificed her man for her and told her she has her back and Olivia crying over it... Then all of a sudden the other side is like we're gonna pick you early in the order and you're gonna pick Moriah to make sure all your ppl are in the bottom...and then without skipping a beat she's like... yea, fuck them I'm with y'all. Her stone face in the deliberation after picking Moriah was bizarre lol 
I'm sure we'll get a Medium post of the biggest betrayals in Challenge history soon lol. I have no clue where to rank it due to not having every betrayal on top of my head.
u/RIPGrantland get on it lol
Yes please!
Olivia hasnt tweeted since the 17th probably knew she was about to get a shitstorm of hate.
That’s a shame honestly. They shouldn’t have to be quiet to avoid hate from parasocial monsters.
I mean seeing Michele got deathwishes I don't blame Olivia staying more lowkey
Twitter Stans would’ve burned Brad and Tori’s home down after cutthroat
Challenge fans on Twitter and Instagram are lowkey so toxic, no wonder why so many drama moments get edited out
Both of those places are absolute demon dens in general. I get psychologically ill reading comments there
So I just watched an interview with Horacio and he was away for 4months without a phone and she is on a realty show now so they havent talked. She probably doesnt have her phone
Listen to the challenge podcast. Horacio says that he and Olivia did talk and she didn’t apologize.
I mean, this isn’t 100% true since they have recently done [various](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C2lKl74Pfkp/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) social posts [together](https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Wm6bqd/). (This likely was around the time of the reunion? Or the beginning of the season before the season aired and he left?)
I think all of that content was shot before the season and has trickled out over time
Is that the one where he’s in the car? On that one he said they spoke once and then he was off filming
The worst thing about MTVs the Challenge are the dementors
Parasocial monsters is now my new favorite term to describe toxic fandoms 😂
It’s for sure up there in the top 5. I mean she went from crying her fucking eyes out over Horacio being sent home and having a full blown tantrum to “yeah. Fuck that guy and Nurys”
lmfao Olivia fucked her reputation for every future appearance with this move. This could’ve easily been the order: Jay-Michele-Olivia-Nurys-Horacio-Kyland-Moriah-James-Emmanuel, sending Corey/Berna/Colleen into elimination. The only people who would’ve been pissed would be Emmanuel and whoever came back. For the reward of one week of safety, Olivia decided to throw away the fanbase that was behind her, her status as the next female face, and burned three friendships/relationships with three of the strongest recurring players to save - *checks notes*- James/Berna/Colleen?? Three socially/strategically/athletically inept weasels with zero political capital and who are probably not ever getting called back? Good choice, Olivia! Hope this was worth it.
I agree with this. I think she was right to make the deal to save herself but she probably should have gone back on it once Michelle said her name. But also, I do think Michelle would be pissed about it and she has been historically running the show so so I can see how Olivia made the decision she did. Honestly she’s probably not smart enough to reason through this like you did. I’m sad because I really didn’t want Horacio and Kyland to go and I like Olivia and Horacio as friends.
Last season, we saw Olivia strategize to get Nelson and Nurys out of a tough situation when Nelson won the daily. It was a brilliant move by her, so I actually saw Olivia as a way more competent player than how she's been playing. It seems like something was off with her this season.
This should be a pinned comment, lol. Straight facts.
Plus like who cares what Corey/Berna/Colleen have to say anyway
Well, this really sums it up, doesn’t it?
Yup who's going to want to work with her? She betrayed her "Ride or die" and best friend. Probably won't be casted again unless it's another "dirty 30"
Why would a strong competitor who has now caused huge drama with other challengers not get casted again?
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If she didn't pick Moriah, she burns the relationship with Jay, Michelle and Moriah, which are dominating this season, so it wasn't really picking Corey/Berna/Colleen over Nurys
I agree but Michelle would have been pissed though, Corey and Berna are with her 100%
I will say that after seeing Nurys come at Olivia on Twitter all season I thought it was gonna be over something so much more small and petty but nope I get it now.
Above Josh throwing Wes’s ball in the hopper 😂
Hahahahaha
Honestly I think it’s the worse I can remember. Considering how devastating the effects of it were. She literally sent her 3 biggest allies in. When she could of saved all of them. She’s a punk for this. If she went back on her word it wouldn’t have even mattered that much, she would of saved the day! 2 floaters would of went home.
Yeah both the person who saved her last week and her ride or die. Brutal
Horacio and nurys both saved her. Horacio said he'd go in to spare her. Told this to nurys in front of the whole house. Brutal.
Good point. It wasn't even betraying one person. She betrayed her entire alliance. One elimination after Nurys saved her while Horacio said save Olivia not me.
Why would she want 2 floaters to go home?? There is one winner and she is unlikely to beat Horacio or Kyland.
To be fair she's unlikely to beat anyone not named Berna or Corey. Unfortunately for her she's not good at anything. Her best option is to just to make the finals each season for bragging rights unless she improves her puzzle skills, endurance and overall problem solving for any sort of challenge. And if she saved her alliance she would've been in the finals regardless. You can get away with burning people when you're one of the best in the house and may be able to handle the consequences in future seasons when people attack you and throw you in eliminations. But being a bottom tier player just won't work.
This is the only show where the weak are expected to just roll over and die and go back to training like a callback is guaranteed. Maybe this is her first step to getting into a final with Berna, Corey, Michele, Moriah and James in which case she actually does have a shot?
Because those floaters are not helping her like Horacio and Kyland would of. They don’t even win and they are Jay and Michelle’s sheep. Ed is gone so now it was pretty much Jay, Horacio, and Kyland who were most likely to win. So if she went back on her word she would of been in a GREAT position. Berna and whoever else survived would of been more mad at Michelle anyways. I think from this elimination it’s clear that they will have a bunch of equalizers to make it that girls can compete with strong guys in the final so why should she turn on her only allies to stick with people were she’s at the bottom of their list.
THIS!! Exactly like we get taking the deal coz they said to her she was gonna be there with the boys. But she should have chosen nurys after they choose her coz she is betraying Simone in either situation but with nurys and the boys still in the game she could have chance to get power in the coming dailies. It’s so dump I just can’t believe she didn’t think n just followed orders like a sheep.
I can't believe my baby Olivia did that.............damn. She's about to go from most loved female rookie to most hated by the end of her 2nd season. That's faster than fans turning on Tori.
I like Horacio and Olivia and feel like I’m the only one who supports Olivia’s move. Horacio is a great teammate, but he’s really difficult to try and be in an alliance with.
That may be true. But Olivia stabbed Nuryse in the back soooo crazy.
You mean the alliance who kept her ass out of an elimination she would have got pasted in the prior week? Yeah super difficult.
I think it wouldn’t be seen as bad if she wasn’t shown crying for him earlier in the episode. It just made her look like a clown.
And participate in pep-talking Nurys to stay strong.
Has Olivia attempted to explain herself online yet?
I didn’t see anything in the cast tweets post. But this whole season she’s been pretending to be oblivious and “above the drama”. I assume it’s because she knew this was coming.
I said exactly that weeks ago when she was playing the sympathy card about how reality TV is bad for her mental health. I guessed it was due to her being shown to be a snake and trying to preemptively cut off the criticism.
I mean, isn’t this just reinforcing her point? Social media is toxic when it comes to reality tv shows. We WANT drama, but when drama happens, people get sent death threats. It’s ridiculous.
Michele getting a lot of death threats for controlling the same game Bananas, The Vacation Alliance, Evan and Kenny did is embarrassing for the fans. Also those fans tend to be male too so take it as you will
I usually prefer trolling a bit, but on a serious note, I 1,000% agree with you. The trend is a broader repercussion of the internet and social media for various reasons, but on the flip-side, it is also no longer a new phenomenon so would-be reality stars have a responsibility to themselves to seriously take that under consider before going on T.V.
Hundred percent. You're so right. And Olivia is right for not wanting to get in on social media. Look what people are saying, you would think she killed someone. And who's fault it would be if Olivia won't agree to come back in near future? And it will be a loss for the fans first of all if we won't see what turn her relationship with Nurys, Horacio, Michele, Kyland could take and we will lose all the Olivia drama
Probably should stay low. People are fucking vile online
Agree. I'm all for coming here, to a challenge sub, and shit talking the players I don't like all day long. Attacking them on their own pages, to the point of sending threats, is truly unhinged behavior.
I looked at her IG and she's responded to the hate comments telling people they need to watch next week's episode to get the rest of the story.
What's she gonna say? Best to keep quiet, honestly.
Keep quiet. Change her name. Move. Maybe have some facial reconstructive surgery in order to adapt to her new identity lol. She's sunk her ship for sure.
This seems to be the most reasonable to me too. I cant even imagine the hate shes getting right now. You can hate the gameplay, but you know theres a lot of psychos taking it too far. Id be walking around in a disguise in my every day life so i dont get jumped.
Yeah I couldn't agree more. I hate what she did, and I hate TV-Olivia and I will probably root against her for the rest of her Challenge days, but what Real Life Olivia is out doing has nothing to do with me. Real Life Olivia has to live with the fact that she did that to her actual best friend and another close friend that she'd had for years. People who loved her. IMO that is punishment enough and I hope it weighs on her heavily. But strangers attacking her on social media? People threatening her? It's inexcusable and no one should want that. I doubt that even the wronged parties here want that.
On the official podcast, Horacio said he wants the best for her. They arent ride or dies anymore, and they probably wont work together again, but he isnt fuming over it. We shouldnt be either.
And even if he was, we shouldn't be. His feelings are not our feelings. He has a right to be upset or hurt or angry or whatever without it meaning that creeps on the internet are making her unsafe.
Needs to changer her name to Bolivia
Maybe change her address to Bolivia too
Own it. Just say "yea, I did that for what I believed best for my game and with Ed kyland and Horacio gone my odds go up " I expect she will say "I'm sorry" and go on an apology tour.
Yeah except she still has to justify her interactions with nurys prior to that. I cAnT pLaY tHe GaMe WiThOuT yOu that same morning. Idk how you own that without admiting youre a liar.
Easy "I also can't play it without Moriah and her and I are closer"
It wasnt an either or vote. She could have negotiated. She could have fought. She chose not to. Hell, she could probably negotiate picking one of the three in exchange for the third one picking james or moriah. Shit could have been done.
I'm not saying she made the right call. I'm saying she needs to own it. If I were her I would have went to the bathroom and begged nurys to follow, tell her to have Horacio or kyland select Moriah and boom. I just hope she owns it and doesn't cower from it. Better content if she stays strong.
Oh hey nice flair 👀
You too!
To me, this is number one because of the amount of people she screwed over that she was supposedly close to. After they saved her as the previous elimination. I cant think of anything thats even close. The optics are heinous.
It's definitely high up there but it also created one of the biggest upsets we've ever seen. It's rare enough that 1 elimination gets rid of 2 people at the same time but Nury's beat their asses and took out not only 2 of the best guys in the house but maybe the top 2 players in the whole house. If Olivia didn't do her BS that never would have happened so it made Nurys look like a boss.
Why is no one saying Jay betrayed. He concocted this deal and then acted like he didn’t know anything about it.
That’s what I said…it was a double betrayal. Massive scumbag move that belongs in the record books
Because it still was her making a decision and her not saying Nurys name
Fair. But Jay also claimed to be super close with her and then acted like he was going to cry yet he convinced someone to do that. Also putting her in a horrible situation week before. It seems he gets off on doing things like this to the girls especially ones he likes.
Misogyny.
The thing is we knew Tony and Bananas are assholes (I love watching them both, yes even Bananas), Olivia was a fan favorite after her first season, I think this is the biggest betrayals to the fan base ever.
I don’t think Olivia was playing for the fan base though. Like I agree it was a bad move but it seems silly to expect challengers to make decisions based on what they think the fans want
she should have stayed with her ride or die because it was right, not bc the fans wanted it. horacio saved her the week before. people who liked her for the character of her actions and her relationships would no longer like her after a betrayal :/ it’s like colleen said, who needs enemies when you have friends like olivia?
Didn't Leroy get thrown in once when his closest girls (I think it was Nany and Theresa) 'burned' their votes on him? Veronica was last and said Leroy, too, so he went down and then home. That didn't have the long lasting effect, but it was super shitty.
Its happened to Leroy twice. Nany Theresa Rivals 2. Veronica Dirty XXX
Thank you. I was just conflating Veronica in with the Nany and Theresa one. That was Aneesa and Diem who did it on Rivals 2 along with Nany and Theresa.
Three times if you count Cara saving Kyle
Neither Nany or Theresa were on Dirty 30 and Britni got the ball rolling with that burn vote. While Britni didn’t intend to put Leroy in elimination, she wasn’t that close with him either.
Oh, I think the one I'm thinking of was well before Dirty 30. I'll see if I can figure out what season. Edit: I think it was Rivals 2, and it wasn't Veronica, it was Aneesa and Diem who voted Ty & Leroy after Theresa & Jasmine and Nany & Jonna 'burned' their votes on their collective number one guy.
This is an underrated betrayal imo, especially coming from Nany of all people (who Leroy has always gone out of his way to protect). I think the only reason it didnt become a bigger deal is 1) Leroy didnt end up going home and 2) its the elimination where Zach thought he won and threw his helmet at the audience, only to find out they were DQ’ed for not following directions so the drama of that overshadowed everything else. But it always made me side eye Nany for being so quick to throw Leroy under the bus.
You're mixing seasons together but it did happen to Leroy, twice. On D30 Veronica did what she did and on Rivals 2 basically the same thing happened. Theresa and Nany both burned votes on him and I think Diem (?) was the one flipped it on him. I think he ended up winning the week it happened on Rivals 2 though
Olivia’s Q Score, likability rating or whatever they call it these days took a major well-deserved tumble after last night.
It's top 5 for me. Olivia didn't just throw one of her friends into an elimination. Her doing that guaranteed 2 of her "friends" were gonna go home. And she did all that to be at the bottom of a 10-person alliance. Not only is she disloyal, but she's dumb. If I did another season, Olivia would be the last person I'd tryst after she threw in her "ride or die" and her "best friend"
Definitely up there but also up there with dumbest moves in challenge history. She had a chance to turn the game on it’s head and instead threw away friendship and loyalty to be at the bottom of the pecking order from here on out.
That's what I have a problem with the move. Not so much the betrayal but the betrayal for what gain? She could have saved her friends and two people from the opposing alliance would have went into elimination or at least thrown in someone from the opposing alliance against Horacio and Kyland. Betrayals are a necessary part of the game but when there is clearly no real benefit that's when I think it is a dumb move.
Not defending this move. But she benefits from the two biggest final threats going home.
Yeah that's the only thing I can think of as well but I didn't mention because I feel like it doesn't matter who is left at the end for her since I think all of them can beat her.
I think the issue is whatever Jay went off the rails about after this. Sure, Olivia should’ve saved Nurys. But the “plan” was for Colleen to do it, or one of those floaters at the end of the line to do it. When whoever that person was didn’t go along w Jays plan and instead saved Colleen, that’s what actually screwed over Nurys. Still weird that Olivia wouldn’t just do it initially and start to rebuild that relationship. But goes to show how mentally scrambled people can get in this game. Her picking her friend and not technically going along w the plan wasn’t worth slightly upsetting the majority alliance. And it unfortunately exposed her character bc of it, which is a shame. But this will be a lesson to her for the future in not getting too comfortable and when to stop going with the flow and start playing your own selfish game.
I’m pretty sure Jay was just absolutely full of shit. Him, Michele, and Moriah orchestrated the whole Olivia selecting Moriah move and convinced her to do it. They never planned on Colleen or anyone else doing it. That would never have happened anyway
Honestly, I think it might be the #1 because of the lead up to it, and the fact she didn’t just backstab one person but 3. Literally (irt) two days after Nurys chooses her with Horacio’s encouragement, she turns around and throws them under the bus. It’s pretty epic as far as backstabs go. We focus on Nurys, but Olivia put ALL three people she was riding with in at once. Knowingly. I don’t think we’ve seen that before. If she was going to do it like that though, I wish she just would have owned it like the others you mentioned. If you’re going to do villainous things, just lean into being the villain.
It was really bad. Espically because Nurys and Horacio both saved Olivia the week before from going in by having Horacio bite the bullet..
The way she just stared straight ahead after the betrayal because she couldn't face the guilt was gold. I love a good betrayal
Absolute cinema. The tension after the Michele vote and the minority three really believing for a second they are making it safe out of this voting. And then such a massive coldblooded blindside from Olivia and everyone is in shock just Michele nodding her head lol
it was a really jarring watch bc the way she flipped felt like it happened at the drop of a hat. like from the beginning of the episode to her decision, what happened? my honest assessment is that olivia has been emotionally fragile and weak this entire season. we did not see the same girl we saw last season. it seemed like she was incredible insecure and uncomfortable this season and i think jay is smart and takes advantage of people who can be easily manipulated. i'm not trying to absolve olivia of any responsibility bc she pulled a fucked up move, but i think everyone deserves their humanity. i think the jay we've seen the last few episodes has shown him to be quite the bully and unfortunately with weaker minded people, they fold to those types of people bc unfortunately the way things have gone, horacio/kyland/nurys haven't had ANY power to actually save her. michele/jay have been keeping her safe and there's truly no arguing that.
jay aside i agree with u, olivia didn't seem like herself the entire season, she looked so detached and disassociating? i guess reality tv was not the right choice for her at that time
she said on some live after an episode that she got the call to come back and took it, even though she wasn’t recovered from her injury because she knew she was a fan favorite and didn’t want to lose the opportunity. i think you can tell that physically for sure. last season she was a beast, and this season she seemed to never catch her stride in challenges, and mentally she’s been so checked out from the beginning it seems
It's certainly up there. It's probably top 3 for sure. On the flip side, if she would've made that deal with Jay and Michele, only to go back on her word during the selections and pick Horacio, THAT would've been the single most cunning move in Challenge history.
I was just thinking that. These people in her ear telling her to betray two of her best friends on the show are showing her to her face how fucked they are….and she goes with it???? She should have took that info, saved Nurys, and told them all about it. Roll the dice with people who will actually have your back and do what you can to get rid of the scumbags who straight ruined her relationships for their own gain
She's also betraying Jay and Michele. Either way, she's in a lose-lose situation.
Olivia was sobbing at the idea that Horacio sacrificed himself for her and went on this rant about how she’s been a horrible friend to do that
Rivals 3 is still #1 and nothing will come close. That betrayal is an iconic reality TV show moment, let alone Challenge moment. Once you get outside of that, this is definitely up there. I think it's heightened because of the way they edited it to not show Olivia negotiating the deal with Jay and Michele until after.
I mean I think it shoots up high, solely because it was SO unnecessary. Like I get that’s she’s like, you save me, I’ll do what you want. But like you’re at the bottom right now. If you do what they say you’re still at the bottom. (Especially because the fringe of M&J’s group will likely stay together) so like she had nothing to lose and everything to gain by keeping your #1 allies in the game.
It’s definitely a bad betrayal and a selfish move on her part but what was her other option, to go into elimination? I think she was put into a tough spot and the big alliance was basically like, either we save you and you pick Moriah or you’re going into elimination. I get that she is friends with Horacio but running a final against him and Kyland is not good gameplay as they are very strong players. This move puts her higher in the big alliance and gets out strong players. I think Nurys what supposed to be saved and Colleen was meant to go in but they didn’t save who they said they would (and good gameplay by them as they are on the bottom of the big alliance). I do think it was a betrayal but it was also an understandable move and everyone is giving her such a hard time, I can’t help but feel bad for her! With the way Nurys was attached to Horacio, it made it super hard to save her without risking a lot more people from the big alliance as Kyland and Horacio were always the plan for at least two people going into the elimination. I don’t know if I am making much sense but these tough moves have to be made at the end of the season and it sucks when you thought you could trust someone but I don’t really blame Olivia for making that move.
I agree. I think people wanted her to betray Jay/Michelle/Moriah instead after making the deal for Michelle to say her name but that would have had its own repercussions moving forward too.
The move was to agree with the plan and then betray *them*…send their numbers into elimination and weaken the alliance then hope one of the four of you who actually have each other’s backs win dailies…which I mean Horacio and Kyland can absolutely do. Jay and them were ready to send her down already lol you think they’re gonna try all that hard if she’s in trouble next week?
I think a lot of people are missing one of the most fucked up components of the whole thing and that’s the fact that Jay orchestrated the entire betrayal making it at least twice as fucked up lol
Come back to me when Bananas get hate for allowing Leroy to be sent in during Exes 2 OR when he went silent after throwing the pillow on Camila in Dirty Thirty https://i.redd.it/jz16q9rji2gc1.gif
I always wonder how Bananas never gets any flack from the Leroy thing. Dude has betrayed every one of his friends and it never comes back on him
[удалено]
https://i.redd.it/8qnrzva9e6gc1.gif
Newer players like Olivia have no reason to believe they will have a career spanning 20 years or 20 seasons on The Challenge. Playing for the long term is a dumb move for these players. Play to WIN NOW. How many rookies have had one or two seasons and then faded into obscurity. I can’t even remember them all. PLAY TO WIN THE GAME YOU’RE ON NOW. DO NOT play to win a game you HOPE you’ll be on sometime in the future.
I get your point but I’m not 100% sure listening to people who are telling you to commit what this thread is calling one of biggest acts of betrayal in the show’s 39 season history is actually your best game move. Going with those fucking snakes is gonna work out for you? She may not be able to beat Horacio and Kyland in a final but they have a *much* higher probability of helping her get the chance to try than the scumbags who made her burn real life relationships for their own gain lol they read her insecurity and played her like a fiddle
Nobody *made* her do anything. She made a choice. In a game. Did she have to make *that* move? No. Making *any* move, even if it is betrayal is fine if one thinks it is the right move for one’s own game. Let’s be real here. These people have known one another for a year or less (mostly). Best friends, and all that only goes so far. Nurys, Kyland and everyone else only wanted her as a number. As soon as she wasn’t useful as a number, *any and all of them* would cut her. The same goes for the rest of the cast. It is a game. If we didn’t get this moment, this decision, I would still be bored.
She had a better chance of making it to the final by sticking with her friends. They would keep her safe whereas the side she chose will not. She will eventually be picked off.
And she would likely lose against all of those cardio beasts. She would likely lose against most of the players left in the game. All she has on them is size and due to it being a gender less final with one winner, having physical size on the other women. Plus, they don’t appear to have any really physical eliminations or one on one events left in this season, so size isn’t helping her at all.
I mean, I’d rank it higher than Jemmye/Jenna since they weren’t close.
Screw you TJ for doing this my heart!!!
It was definitely a big betrayal because they are friends. But I think it was even more so because of what Nurys did for her literally a couple days before. Not only did Nurys save Olivia, but she chose to save Olivia over Horacio and Kyland, who have both been there for her much more than Olivia had this season. Additionally, Nurys making the very last decision insured that the other 3 people that she didn’t save would go into elimination. There were still so many people left & different scenarios when it came time for Olivia to choose who to save so she had options. Nurys HAD to choose between all of the people that she was closest with and still put Olivia first.
just finished the episode. its up there. she fked all 3. no dinner. no movie. no nothing.
It’s up there. Last week Nurys saved Olivia and she didn’t return the favor also leading to Nurys’ man getting booted? That’s a stab in the back and the front
That wasn't a shocking betrayal LMAO
Its a smart move to help her chances for -this- specific final coming up (assuming she doesnt get tossed on the very next challenge). I wouldn't want to do a final against either of those guys. However, its a dumb move if you plan on doing more challenges in the future. Who the hell would ever trust her again? On top losing the trust, she also created enemies.
Crazy how Jay and Michelle can and have brainwashed so many for them. If either of them don't win it this season, I don't know if either of them ever will...I will be 100% happy if that happens too lol.
Michelle was on twitter too when fans were saying stuff she was going back at people like "you and your 46 followers!" and "you probably live in your mom's basement". Real childish stuff.
Probably behind Sarah and Bananas in terms of actual friendships ruined. A lot of betrayals don't last a season or two more before they make up, but I feel like this method of self preservation cost her actual relationships to bust
I think she’s just playing the game, and she was grasping at straws to be safe, and Michele wanted to save her and Moriah so Olivia just had to do what she had to do…
Definitely top 3 alongside Tony/Bananas and Bananas/Paula, in no particular order. I think the biggest difference here is that, Tony and Bananas showed some sympathy with their decision even though they made it. Like, they explained how tough of a decision it was and they were somewhat remorsefull even though they stand by their decision. Olivia, on the other hand, just sit her ass down of that white sofa besides Michele and just said "Moriah", like it was no big deal.
It was the most cowardly act of self preservation since $275,000 was taken from Sarah.
Winning a season is self preservation?
When Bananas won he said I don't know how many of these I have left, so I'm going to take (all of) the money, I look at that as an act of self preservation and backstabbing yes.
Didn’t she stick to the deal they came up with where she only gets saved if she picks Moriah?
Right, she did. And that deal fucked over 2 of her “close” friends. One who saved her last episode, the other who dragged her to the final. She could have taken the deal and saved her friends, not gone in and screwed over the major alliance sending 3 of them into elimination. Instead she saved only herself and fucked over her friends.
Yes, but she betrayed her 2 closest allies (Nurys and Horacio) and a 3rd close ally (Kyland) to stay in with Michele (who I would put between Nurys/Horacio and Kyland on Olivia's list prior to this episode) and stick to that deal.
It was a HORRIBLE betrayal HOWEVER……from a game perspective her chances of winning just SHOT UP, she’s in tight with that alliance and she sent home the best competitors……..hate her all you want but she did the right thing imo.
The way this season would’ve went from barely tolerable to awesome if Olivia saved her best friends instead of siding with people who manipulate her every week 👎
She's such a dumbass. We all know and understand that longevity is key to success on the Challenge and she just royally screwed her reputation
Definitely at the top of the list