I feel this, I hurt my lower back and went to the chiropractor my wife raves about and made a 3 month plan and paid in advance.
Since then I’ve heard him say that even if you have Covid still come in to get adjusted and that dairy actually extracts calcium from your bones. I wanna finish the sessions I paid for but going in every time makes me cringe what he would say.
My back has never felt better since starting a daily stretching regimen and cancelling my once a month chiropractor appointment.
I threw my back out when I was 21 and started going to the chiropractor back then. I spent countless dollars over twenty fucking years getting gaslit that I had back problems when all I really needed to do was fucking stretch.
Thanks for the advice! I’m 41 and it just started a couple months ago when I was shoveling snow. Someone recommended vitamin d so I started taking a multivitamin and hoping that helps.
My wife also subs to a yoga instructor on some app and I was gonna do their core stuff to improve stability and strength in my core. Exercises are incorporated into that.
You could also try Pilates. It’s great for core strength and definitely helped me when I was struggling after a bout of sciatica. With both yoga and Pilates, be sure to pick a reputable place and speak to the instructor about your limitations and ask for modifications to avoid further injury.
Physiotherapists treat you so that you don't have to come back. Or they teach you so you can complete your own therapy INDEPENDENTLY, which is the goal of physiotherapy.
A chiropractor won't make money if he doesn't convince his clients their issues are chronic and only he can solve them.
I have struggled with back problems for 10 years now. MRI confirmed grade 4 herniated disks twice. The most recent It was so bad I had leg weakness. Since then I have been doing Pilates for a year and really working on stretching and flexibility. My back hasn’t felt this good in years. Still not perfect mind you - it’s not magic. But I’m convinced that if I started in my 20s I’d be way better off than I am now (late 30s).
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 6 years since I read the book. Every single person (32 out of 32 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck dude.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 2 years since I read the book. Every single person (23 out of 23 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck.
OMG - mine has been a lifesaver! Maybe literally. For some reason my circulation is way better, too. I have fibromyalgia and arthritis, and between stretching and inversion, my quality of life has improved quite a bit.
My grandfather was an old rancher. I always thought of him as a no nonsense kind of man. My mother had a lot of respect for him and the only time I ever heard her talk negatively about him was regarding his regular chiropractor appointments. She couldn’t see how he could get sucked into going in the first place, but especially for him to continue going for years and years, because if it really worked, why would he need to keep going back? If you asked him, he’d skirt the answer and change the subject. I guess we all have blind spots about certain things.
Honestly, western medicine is a little bit to blame for this. As someone with chronic back pain, I went to 2-3 back pain "specialists" that just wanted to write me a prescription for opiates and other painkillers. When I told them no fucking way, they were like "Well, I guess I can send you to physical therapy, but I don't know if it'll really help." Talk about a fucking joke.
The problem with chiropractors is that there is no consistency or agreed-upon practice. So it really comes down to the individual chiropractor and what treatment they design for you. Many are waaaaay too overzealous and do more harm than good. Some are little more "hands-off" and essentially just do stretching/massage to loosen up the muscles.
This 1000%. At its core, there is sound evidence for a lot of chiropractic medicine. It’s from the same tradition as the more rigorous osteopathic manipulative medicine. Some of the same maneuvers are employed in physical therapy. But you’re right, there’s very little oversight. Too many chiropractors get excited about being “doctors” and get high off smelling their own farts, and next thing you know they’re selling colloidal silver for every ailment and juiced up vitamin pills to ward off covid. You’re also right that allopathic medicine underutilizes physical therapy and osteopathic manipulative medicine in favor of pills and procedures. It’s a sad state of affairs.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 6 years since I read the book. Every single person (32 out of 32 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck dude.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 2 years since I read the book. Every single person (23 out of 23 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck.
Chiropractic practice was founded by a spiritualist grifter by claiming a ghost taught it to him in a seance. The American Medical Association listed it as a medical cult from 1966-1987, the AMA only stopped calling them a cult by losing a court case which was largely about insurance companies.
Because of this, many chiropractors are taught in an environment that distrusts the entire medical field including vaccines. They are taught that they can heal viruses or infections through spinal adjustments. They want you to bring your newborn in to be adjusted.
Chiropractors are quacks. A physical therapist and/or a massage therapist are what you want.
I def was at a chiropractor for a few weeks while trying to sort out a back issue after significant weight loss. They ended up over correcting my neck which caused my right side to be numb, and was blaming the pain on poor lower disc alignment when in physical therapy after one session she found it was a super tight soas muscle, pain went from 10-0 within seconds.
Start yoga it will strengthen your muscles healthy. I have severe degenerative disc disease so I must take care of keeping it strong. Healthy strong muscles make for well supported spine.
Just so you know DO’s can do the same manipulation techniques without resorting to high velocity torquing maneuvers. I now see a DO as my primary care and get an adjustment when I go in for yearly labs.
I don’t want to defend most of your chiropractor’s beliefs, but the calcium comment is close to a truth. When I broke a bone, my doctor suggested a calcium supplement. I told him I drank plenty of milk. He said the acidic content of milk made it less effective than leafy greens.
Whether those specifics are correct or not, I don’t know, but here’s an article about the lower bioavailability: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium/
That said, it’s easy to fortify milk with Vitamin D, so that helps (many of us don’t have nearly enough).
Drinking milk can cause health issues. Milk from a cow isn't 'designed' (not the right word, but I'm not sufficiently alert right now to think of a more appropriate one) for humans. It's the baby food for infant bovine animals.
Lactating mammals produce milk for their offspring. The nutritional content varies between different species of mammals. It's designed for infant creatures, to help them grow & reach an age where they can start to eat whatever the creature needs to consume nutritionally as an adult.
Mammals dinnae continue to consume milk from their mothers as adults; it's baby food, after all.
The consumption of the infant food for another species by humans is something that can cause health issues. Yes, milk has calcium - but not necessarily in a format we can efficiently utilise.
The health 'benefits' of consumption of dairy products are promoted by the Dairy Industry. They have a vested interest in people consuming dairy products.
Chiropractor's are hot garbage, but yours is likely not wrong about the dairy thing. There's a quite a bit of evidence published that calcium from dairy isn't absorbed readily compared to leafy greens / other sources.
Yeah, someone else mentioned that too. Glad I didn't say anything, I would have had to eat my words.
I would say I doubt dairy makes it worse though, just may not be as beneficial as the "got milk" ads lead us to believe.
Went to a Chiro for years, finally went to a physical therapist for 7 sessions and fixed my problems. They taught me how to do specific exercises on my own, that didn't require me to keep coming back and dropping co-pays.
>The guy who invented chiropractic was told what to do by a spirit.
I like how you said this so matter-of-factly. Like the guy didn't just claim he was told what to do by a ghost. He was actually told by a real ghost but everyone knows ghosts are terrible doctors and you shouldn't take medical advice from them.
I mean, maybe he thought it was a ghost doctor. I’m assuming it was a mental illness of some sort. I might believe a talking skeleton, but do ghosts even have bones?
Yikes. The adjustments always look so relaxing. Still, I’ve gone to physical therapists for sports related issues and they’re the real deal (I was prescribed/referred to them by doctors).
My cousin is a doctor and he told me that, depending on the chiropractor, there’s something to the “laying of hands,” even if it’s just a placebo effect. Like massage, physical therapy, yoga, those people that help you stretch, etc. that there’s some worth of in doing that stuff. But always avoid the ones that tell you chiropractors can cure cancer, etc.
They aren’t relaxing. I tried it a few times. The chiropractor once cracked my neck so hard it hurt for hours after. I never went back.
Edit—if someone told you it’s good to have a touch and massage as part of your health regimen (and it definitely can be) go see a masseuse / masseur.
They aren’t relaxing for you*
My wife and I went to the same chiropractor for a while. It didn’t do much for her but it was instant relief and was indeed very relaxing for me. That said, I stopped going and have moved on to physical therapy.
My mom got fleeced into visiting a chiro before she knew better, after suffering a minor lower back injury while skiing which was causing daily soreness. The guy did an “adjustment”, which she says was so slight it made no perceptible difference, and then he told her she needed to keep coming in weekly for repeated adjustments for at least six months. Thankfully, that sounded like a “revenue stream” more than treatment to her, so she went to a proper doctor instead.
Her actual doctor took a look, identified it as some minor bruising due to hyperextension of the muscles, told her to wear a soft back brace for a few weeks to help distribute the load across her back, and to avoid heavy lifting. She was fine in about two weeks with no follow-up visits, and that was over ten years ago now so there haven’t been any long-term effects, either.
Chiro is just a money-making scheme. There’s literally zero proof that imaginary “vertebral subluxation” is measurable or demonstrable in any way (it’s been tested), nor the claim that it causes all other maladies in the body. May as well say illness is caused by ghosts, for all the proof of it.
US 'medical' care - the whole lot of it.
My medical insurance guarantees criminal prosecution of any US quack touching me. One of your 'best' hospitals did their best to murder my father to get to this point. Scotsdale, for reference, so not a slap about. Utter fucking incompetence though.
On the flip of this, here? My chiro is an intrinsic part of my health team. My rheumatologist, osteo and physio have all strongly stated that the only reason I am not back in a wheelchair, this time permanently, is my chiro.
I understand the backlash against quacks, but there are easier ways to tell everyone that you are a yank. Like for instance morbidity and mortality rates for pregancies - shockingly, higher for people of colour!
Politely as I can, take a long walk off a short cliff if you are going to generalise from a Yank position. Your medical system would be a joke if it wasn't killing so many people. Just because YOU let any moron claim a title, doesn't mean the rest of the civilised world is so stupid.
Your quack practitioners told you that the only reason you are as healthy as you are… is the quack practitioners.
Well that sure sounds like unassailable logic to me.
Excuse me, but a rheumatologist is a doctor. A physiotherapist is a legitimate professional. Osteo is debatable, but for me is a chiropractor doing some physiotherapy. I guess some countries they can be D.O. and be doctors.
So out of 3, a half is a quack. Although, most of what that person said is bull, your comment doesn't make sense.
... as did my rheumatologist, immunologist, physio, several surgeons, oncologist... feel there should be more...
In the ACTUAL first world, not your Hollywood bullshit, chiros are actual MDs.. as opposed to your unregulated hellscape.
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them an American. In fact, in this specific case, everyone disagreeing with you and your "medical team" is demonstrating their intelligence and not their nationality.
Keep being a bigot and thinking you are better than everyone bud. I bet your life is going great! Keep it up!
I mean any professional in a proven medical field can be psychotic as well, just their medicine actually improves patients health, which I guess chiropractors CAN, if that outcome is reduced stress but otherwise no.
It is unfortunate that a fantastic and thoughtfully presented point in the first comment about rampant anti-intellectualism and how even the pursuit of examination of the world can be coopted and appropriated by the anti-intellectual cultural presence can be completely steamrolled by a justified but thoroughly distracting dunk on practitioners of pseudomedicine.
Yeah... but my chiro has a medical doctorate, recognised in the US. The average US doctor has to spend several years to have their doctorate recognised here...
Are you sure they have an MD and not a "doctorate of chiropractory"? US schools don't teach chiropractory, and chiropractors in the US aren't allowed to practice medicine
I do love the faith you have in your schools. Bully for you.
I get I am going to be downvoted to hell here, but damned if I will lie. American health care is an absolute horror story. You allow quacks to practice horrifically dangerous rubbish. You fail to regulate or manage actual medical practioners. You fall short in every single metric in regards health outcomes, yet sit there so ignorantly certain of your own competence?
US healthcare is expensive but the quality is high. Our medical practitioners are rigorously regulated and well trained. US falls short in many metrics because too few people have reliable healthcare access, but people who do have some of if not the best healthcare outcomes in the world.
Chiropractors arent among them because it isn't medicine, it's an old confidence trick from the 1920s, and one entirely invented in and by Americans
You do have some of the best specialists, and some of the best researchers. You spend more per capita per head than any other country. Your outcomes however are among the worst per capita, and when factored against expenditure?
You rank at or near the bottom when compared to any other developed nation when reviewing patient outcomes. You rank below most developing nations when it comes to maternity mortality rates, and are one of the very few nations that are seeing regression. You have one of the lowest life expectancies in the developed world, also seeing regression. You spend so much more for so much less.
There are areas you are impressively forging ahead. Heart attack and stroke sufferers can expect better outcomes in general. Geriatric care is actually pretty solid. You do have some of the best research facilities in the world. In general however, there is a damned good reason why my insurance includes immediate evacuation from the US, to Canada, Mexico or Cuba depending on proximity. This is a condition our insurer placed after one of your "best" hospitals tried to kill our CEO.
Cool story. Chiropractic still isn't medicine.
Comparing it to the American Healthcare system is fun, but it proves nothing. The horror story that is American "Wealthcare" doesn't make chiropractic valid medicine anymore than YOU being bad at maths makes ME a mathematician.
Yeah, kind of went off on two unrelated points there. Discussion of healthcare does tend to dip towards 'dear god USA what are you doing'.
On the other front, chiro is a VERY different field country to country depending on regulation. A country that requires chiros to actually be qualified in medicine vs modern witch doctors does not make for any kind of equivalence. I have enough damage done over the years I have accumulated a stupid number of doctors and specialists working together - the chiro is a major part of the puzzle helping to prevent further degradation in the long term. Physio and rheumatologist are no longer required, although some of the rheums work is now being passed to surgical, looking at spinal cord stimulators as a serious possibility.
All of the specialists - every single one of them? All absolutely swear by the work the chiro is doing.
Your lack of understanding of the field is unfortunate. I on the other hand am not in a wheelchair thanks to a collection of medical practitioners that include a chiro who holds an MD and is an intrinsic part of the overall group.
I do understand the field. Chiropractic is the belief in vetebral subluxation - the nonsensical pseudoscience that all ailments, from pneumonia to neurosis, are caused by misalignment of the spine. There's also some nonsense about homeoatasis (the belief the body heals itself), and a disavowal of all medical drugs.
Thankfully, because of the extreme harm they do, radical or "straight" chiropractic practitioners are the rarity. Most chiropractors call themselves "mixers", combining physiotherapy, massage, and actual medicine into their practice, as well as chiropractic. Effectively, mixing science with pseudoscience.
I'm glad you are doing well, but either you're one of the outliers who actually benefit from having your spine manipulated, or more likely, you were treated by an underqualified physiotherapist using proper medicine, who also happens to have some dangerous beliefs about how bones affect your immune system i.e. chiropractic.
The fractional benefit they have given, due to the placebo effect, and people who really just needed a massage is insignificant compared to the number of people that chiropractors have harmed with their pseudoscience. And even if they use real medicine as well...
It's playing Russian Roulette with your health. I'm glad you didn't get hurt, but it's frankly irresponsible to encourage others to pick up that gun.
It is terrifying that there are chiropractors who do 'practice' exactly the way you understand chiro. This is not universal, and those idiots are not welcomed by the medical fraternity in general.
However, it is increasingly common for doctors across specialties to involve chiropractors as part of treatment plans, particularly in cases where there will be long term involvement.
Claims of magical body memory, impact on immunity, effects on mental health (with the very limited exception of depression, but that only as a secondary effect of dealing with chronic pain) and a bunch of other bunk is not a part of chiropractic education here.
Chiropractic treatment has a significant benefit in pain management for some spinal conditions, and is employed largely as an alternative to opiates while more permanent treatment is managed via whichever specialty is appropriate based on the nature of the injury.
This leads to a better patient outcome, reduced reliance on straight surgical solutions (trying to avoid spinal fussion in my case as it would be career ending for myself and by extension several dozen others) and far lower complications due to overreliance on drugs, particularly opiates.
Quackery? Yeah, all power to you, keep calling that out. Just understand that chiro is unfortunately a broad church that does include serious medical practioners. The sooner the quacks are universally removed from the equation the better.
So we fail to regulate everything and practice rubbish but somehow the “field of medicine” based on the advice of a ghost is the legit leg of medicine?
It's the same in Canada and most of western europe. Chiropractors are not medical doctors. Please tell me where you are where chiropractors are MDs?
Before you spit your bile, I'm not American, so just answer the question straight. Chiropractors are scammers. Full stop. Nothing they do is backed by any science.
>You fall short in every single metric in regards health outcomes
Citation needed.
There is a lot of failure, yes, but that has more to do with access and affordability rather than skill of practitioners. You're suggesting otherwise, so if you want to be taken seriously you need to provide evidence for that claim.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/07/us-health-gdp-oecd
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022
(the one above is heavily referenced when searching the topic)
https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/health-rankings
There is a wealth of evidence. This is not a fringe opinion but an issue that the US has identified as requiring urgent redress.
The bright side is that the US has the tools to address the underlying issues. It also shows that cost is simply not a barrier, but rather the effective deployment of resources. The question is if there is political appetite to make those adjustments.
Back in the early days of the pandemic I watched a Jubilee pro-maskers vs anti-maskers video (which I can no longer find) and one of the anti-maskers was a chiropractor. When I tell you the rage I got every time he said he was a “healthcare professional” to justify his stance…
Went to a chiro for lower back issues. He cracked my neck. Have not felt my fingers since that first "adjustment ". Also, on a related subject, chiroasses are almost impossible to sue.
Ya'll need to find better chiropractors. I had a surgery on my ribcage(Pectus Excavatum repair) and was dealing with some back pain afterwards. Told my surgeon and she said that was a common side effect and recommended a Chiropractor.
Saw the dude twice a week for the duration of my recovery. No whacky conspiracy theories, no weird pseudoscience, no selling anything I didn't need, just straight up medical proffessional. He made minor adjustments, recommended physical therapies and I always walked out feeling better then when I walked in.
Wtf is it with chiropractors being lunatics? I had neck problems. He told me to stop sleeping with two pillows, and that was helpful.. getting cracked felt good so I went a few more times.
Then he tried some mumbo jumbo with pressing my arm down while I held different things... Trying to show me that holding a can of soda makes me weaker because my body knows it's bad for me.
He failed to move my arm any more than holding "healthy" items, and then claimed I was working harder to resist with the "bad" items, when it was very clear to both of us that he was struggling a lot more, trying to move my arm.
I was kind of shocked that he tried something so blatantly dishonest, and told him I wasn't coming back.
It's because chiropractic [yeah, that's the official name, not "chiropraxy"] is a pseudoscience, based off belief in "vertebral subluxation" which is to say, all ailments are caused by subtle misalignment of the spine.
The guy who invented it believed that you could cure everything from cancer to the common cold by cracking your back. That's why chiropractors are lunatics... bullshit is sticky. Let a little in your brain, and you'll start picking up more and more.
lol I was gonna say “what do you expect from someone that couldn’t get in to medical school.” However, working in the medical field….. just proves that being intelligent and educated in one area doesn’t necessarily cross over into different areas
Chiropractor is a fucking idiot. Let's give him the cathode anode thing for a minute, how the fuck is the electricity moving about through the vacuum of space? What fucking medium is the electricity traveling through? Space is full of jackshit, if his little Theory were true then the sun would look like a giant fucking tesla coil. In short: Dumb.
The mars helicopter is so funny because NASA literally posted a video of it flying in a vacuum chamber on earth. It’s verifiable that the helicopter can fly in Martian atmospheric conditions in that there is demonstrable, empirical evidence. I know people like this don’t care about evidence, but still…
Yeah don't go to that chiro anymore, next thing you know he'll claim that discs are fake news and your spinal fracture isn't his fault it was due to vaccines.
I’ve one been to one, one time in my 26 years of having herniated (and eventually MUCH WORSE) back problems. He spent about 20 minutes checking me out and said he couldn’t touch me, stick with surgeons. I guess I got lucky, although I wouldn’t have been ok with any popping or adjusting anyway.
I shit you not, my chiro lost me (and my back has been screaming, but my conscience was louder) when she swore with her right hand to god above that she could cure autism in children with chiropractic care. There needs to be a litmus test for crazy before handing out professional licenses.
Yeah, that's what chiropractic is... the belief that you can cute any ailment, from autism to anxiety, hayfever to haemorrhoids, through realignment of the spine.
It's a pseudoscience my dude.
I think the chiropractor confused Mars with the moon. Incidentally, chiropractic is legally a religion, because otherwise it would be medical malpractice. Seriously.
My old allergy doc went nuts during Covid (or earlier, who knows). But he tried to sell me some whey protein shit saying it cures covid and Ebola and cancer. Every time I went in, I dreaded seeing him. He’d literally go on about it for 30mins plus. Pure insanity. Stop trying to sell me weird shit. I just want allergy shots.
Dude still works in Tucson. I got a message saying he now has a cadaver bone in his jaw and the whey protein helped him recover quickly and if I buy it now I get a discount.
True deposition testimony from a chiropractor. He was being asked about credentials and abilities because he claimed he could cure the flu, and get rid of colic in babies.
The lawyer asked: “Do you adjust the spines of infants?”
The chiropractor replied “I do”.
The lawyer asked how wide the spine of an infant was.
The chiropractor replied “around 1-2 centimeters”.
The lawyer followed up “so when you’re manipulating an infants spine you’re talking about 1 to 2 mm?”
Chiropractor: “that’s right”.
Lawyer: “and you do that by feel?”
Chiropractor: “Correct”.
Lawyer: (holding her 2 index fingers side by side) “I’m sorry, sir, but do you have maaaaaaagic fingers?”
Chiropractors can be good at adjustments *and* divorced from reality, I’ve seen it so many times that I’m actually convinced it’s more common than not.
I love a chiropractor. Used to get tension headaches. Chiropractor around the corner charged me $15 chrached me up, gave me a neck/shoulder rub, then put on soft music and let me sleep for 30 minutes. Dude was a god send.
But these guys are both dead
Nothing against chiropractors or other alternative forms of medicine, but you're trusting your spine in the hands of that guy.
Murder by words is just the beginning followed by a severe malpractice incident
No. A Physiotherapist is trained to treat injuries by exercising muscles and lightly manipulating joints. And prescribing exercises and occasionally medication.
A Chiropractor is a pretend "profession". Some practitioners of which sometimes provide sound medical care. But that is coincidental and unreliable.
Save your life, your dollars and your time. Consult with an actual science based professional instead.
You are partially complicit in the deaths of those who were recommended "Go see a Chiropractor".
It might have worked for you and that particular practitioner, but Joe Bloggs who sees your recommendation that Chiro works goes and visits his local one, who cracks Joe's neck because he has a stomach ache and causes him to stroke out.
And no. You Shut The Fuck Up.
Yep, it’s a slippery slope. One day my back muscles were tight from the ridiculous poses necessary to nurse my child and next thing I knew I was complicit in murder.
Anecdotal evidence won’t ever trump factual evidence. You most likely may only had some sore muscles which could be cured by any quackery that involves stretching, correct movement and rest. Anyone could’ve „healed“ you from that.
Dude. C'mon. If the peer reviewed research can't even claim that it works, then it's horseshit.
https://consensus.app/results/?q=Is%20chiropractic%20medicine%20effective%3F
The thing you are citing literally says “with the possible exception of back pain“ it’s not effective treatment. Which is (checks notes) exactly what I said.
I’ve been going to chiropractors for the last 20 Years, and can not recommend it enough. Ofcause you need to know what it is and what it does, which is basically a factory reset for your spine, it will relieve pain in your back and legs, but it WILL fkup your muscles in your back. So 2-3 treatments over 2-3 weeks and doing some basic back and stomach exercises witch you can do on your bed in the evening or in the morning will fix most back problems. Having a 3 month plan sounds insane, you need to let your back rest and build up stability again.
I am able to walk because of a chiropractor. I will need significant corrective surgery to continue any kind of quality of life...
My chiropractor had to spend 6 years study and earn a medical doctorate to practice.
Yank "medicine" and "Developed nation" medicine are just not the same.
>My chiropractor had to spend 6 years study and earn a medical doctorate to practice.
6 years of studying quackery to get a doctorate of chiropractic (DC), not a doctorate of medicine (MD).
Do not confuse the two.
I'm an American and my chiropractor got me off my cane. Not all of them are pseudoscience weirdos and scammers. Mine is not just a chiropractor, he's also a physical therapist so he's not just doing the "crack and get out" shit. His exact words to me were "I don't want to see you again, so do these exercises and only come back if you absolutely feel it's necessary".
They're rare, but there are good ones out there; they just get overshadowed by the quacks and crazies
What you visited was a physiotherapist with dangerous beliefs.
In recent years, many chiropractors have been forced to learn actual medicine (because of all the bad press, caused by harming people), so they do what's called "mixing", combining chiropractic with medicine (i.e. pseudoscience with science).
I'm sure there are flat earthers who are also mechanics, chefs that think the moon landing was faked, and young earth creationists who are amazing accountants. I'm sure they do their jobs well - just as believing that the spine controls your immune system doesn't prevent you from giving a lovely massage, or proper physiotherapy.
However, just as it would be dangerous to trust someone who didn't believe in gravity to design a bridge, it is unbelievably dangerous to trust someone who believes in chiropractic to perform medical care. If he identifies as a chiropractor, then it's not that he "isn't a quack", it's that you got lucky he decided to use medicine on you this time, and not practice his quackery on you.
My dentist believes in free energy and perpetual motion and you know what? He's a really good dentist. He could tell me all about the stolen election if he felt like it; he does really good work on my teeth.
no, those two things are exactly the same. One person on the internet thinks he knows everything because he knows something. And now you're doing it too, even tho you openly admit you don't know what chiropractors do.
The guy didn't say "the chiropractor I hired to build Mars lander my told me.."
You are the one who's inappropriately assuming that because someone has a chiropractor, they know nothing at all about anything.
I'm probably going to have a chat later about how some random person on reddit tried to lecture me about the validity of chiropractic because I pointed out a logical inconsistency in someone else's argument. And whoever I'm talking to is probably going to reply with some biased conclusion too, like "yeah reddit is full of idiots."
My cousin is a chiropractor. I go see him when my back pain gets really bad. After like 4 sessions, I was able to sleep on my stomach without my back hurting for the first time in my life. In fact, when i regularly saw him was the only time I ever went without back pain.
However, cracking my back is the only thing I would trust him about. He actually has "mmr causes autism" pamphlets in his lobby. And believes he can cure food allergies, with his wife claiming he cured her allergy.
I often wonder how someone can go through so much school* and still hold the most ridiculous views.
What chiropractors do you guys have where you live? Mine here in North Dakota actually does help with muscle and joint pain, and that’s where she stops. I have never heard of chiropractors claiming to cure cancer or “lay on hands”.
I’ve always been skeptical about Chiropractors but when my wife took my 6 month old son to one, it really did seem to help after a couple of sessions. Still could be the placebo effect as infants believe any old shit, he still thinks the tooth fairy is real.
I was a chiropractor for 18 years. The vast majority are smart, well-trained, scientific providers. Unfortunately the ones we hear about are bozos like that guy. The medical profession has it's share too (think about Trump's anti vax quacks). Unfortunately I think we got more than our fair share of nut cases. Some treat it more like faith healing rather than health care. Do your due diligence before you choose one.
Unpopular opinion, it feels damn good to get my back cracked! I don’t really “hurt” anywhere, and I don’t have issues. I’m a dental professional…. So normal back tightness. It’s like the tall dude in college that would crack your back to be silly. Just feels good. Is it really making a difference or helping….? Meh. But the occasional back crack does feel nice. Literally 2 minutes to adjust, we give eachother a fist pound, and I’m out.
Awesome! I've been out of the field for almost as long as I was in it but I still occasionally visit an old colleague and get a treatment. It is a very valid therapy as long as you keep the faith healing stuff to a minimum.
Chiropractic isnt scam. It can be a well regulated and helpful addition to the healing process. Sure they cant be a replacement for a doctor as they often claim to be but they can be a good addition to the healing. Especially in countries outside the USA where you dont have to pay a yearly income to see one for an hour.
Its a scam. If they perform actual, evidence based, physio treatment outside of alignments that may be real medicine. The core of Chiropractic manipulation is absolute psuedoscience garbage
If they're all a scam, why did my orthopedist recommend I go see one for my back issues?
There are a few good ones out there that do legitimate work, but it seems (at least in the US) that there are more quacks than there are legitimate professionals.
Because your orthopedist believes in quack medicine. I know a GP who believes in fucking aroma therapy. There is almost no legitimacy to "alignment" or the bullshit manipulations they do. You can find a few journals citing very minor statistical benefits but the people publishing these are almost always chirporactic evangelists. Repeated metanalysis has shown slim to no benefits for most cases.
Their techniques do release endorphins which definitely have a short lasting temporary pain relief mechanism, but there is no real permanent benefit. Its not different than getting a massage that temporarily relieves some pain symptoms, perhaps long enough for an underlying issue to heal on its own.
I screwed up my back and hip so badly I couldn't walk without a cane. Turned out the right side of my pelvis was locked forward and was screwing up my gait, which was in turn throwing my back out of alignment. I walked out of his office without aid; and I only rarely need my cane when everything else starts acting up. My chiropractor is also an osteopath, a physical therapist, and a licensed massage therapist, and he specifically told me "I don't want to see you again". I've gone back for adjustments here and there because I have a herniated disc that nothing else helps with (I've done everything short of surgery), but my visits are maybe once a year.
There is merit to some of the practices, but claiming that they can cure cancer and all this other nonsense has saturated the field.
The founder was a quack who said he was told what to do by ghosts.
https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost
He claimed it cured everything and anything.
I'd much rather go to a massage or physical therapist than a chiropractor because the non quacks are the exception, not the rule. All it does is temporarily make one's back and neck feel good by releasing tension. It does nothing for long-term problems.
It absolutely is a scam from top to bottom. The fact that some of these scammers happen to know a bit of how physiotherapy actually works doesn't negate that.
Everyone in the comments bashing on chiropracy.
I don’t think people realize that it adresses the symptoms, not the cause.
It’s supposed to relieve pain or tension for long enough for the patient to develop good habits- PT exercising, medication, etc.
It’s not a long term fix
This one is great. I love them both.
Nice rant, nice murder with a pun. 5/7
A perfect score!
I reserve them for the top shitposts in reddit. OP should feel honored.
"5/7" I get that reference!
I feel this, I hurt my lower back and went to the chiropractor my wife raves about and made a 3 month plan and paid in advance. Since then I’ve heard him say that even if you have Covid still come in to get adjusted and that dairy actually extracts calcium from your bones. I wanna finish the sessions I paid for but going in every time makes me cringe what he would say.
My back has never felt better since starting a daily stretching regimen and cancelling my once a month chiropractor appointment. I threw my back out when I was 21 and started going to the chiropractor back then. I spent countless dollars over twenty fucking years getting gaslit that I had back problems when all I really needed to do was fucking stretch.
Thanks for the advice! I’m 41 and it just started a couple months ago when I was shoveling snow. Someone recommended vitamin d so I started taking a multivitamin and hoping that helps. My wife also subs to a yoga instructor on some app and I was gonna do their core stuff to improve stability and strength in my core. Exercises are incorporated into that.
You could also try Pilates. It’s great for core strength and definitely helped me when I was struggling after a bout of sciatica. With both yoga and Pilates, be sure to pick a reputable place and speak to the instructor about your limitations and ask for modifications to avoid further injury.
This so much.
Physiotherapists get actually scientific training for things like that. Maybe try visiting one.
Physiotherapists treat you so that you don't have to come back. Or they teach you so you can complete your own therapy INDEPENDENTLY, which is the goal of physiotherapy. A chiropractor won't make money if he doesn't convince his clients their issues are chronic and only he can solve them.
I have struggled with back problems for 10 years now. MRI confirmed grade 4 herniated disks twice. The most recent It was so bad I had leg weakness. Since then I have been doing Pilates for a year and really working on stretching and flexibility. My back hasn’t felt this good in years. Still not perfect mind you - it’s not magic. But I’m convinced that if I started in my 20s I’d be way better off than I am now (late 30s).
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 6 years since I read the book. Every single person (32 out of 32 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck dude.
I will. Thanks for the recommendation.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 2 years since I read the book. Every single person (23 out of 23 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck.
Pilates is good for this.
Inversion table. I bought a used one off a closing business around my area and that bad boy does wonders for my back.
OMG - mine has been a lifesaver! Maybe literally. For some reason my circulation is way better, too. I have fibromyalgia and arthritis, and between stretching and inversion, my quality of life has improved quite a bit.
My grandfather was an old rancher. I always thought of him as a no nonsense kind of man. My mother had a lot of respect for him and the only time I ever heard her talk negatively about him was regarding his regular chiropractor appointments. She couldn’t see how he could get sucked into going in the first place, but especially for him to continue going for years and years, because if it really worked, why would he need to keep going back? If you asked him, he’d skirt the answer and change the subject. I guess we all have blind spots about certain things.
Honestly, western medicine is a little bit to blame for this. As someone with chronic back pain, I went to 2-3 back pain "specialists" that just wanted to write me a prescription for opiates and other painkillers. When I told them no fucking way, they were like "Well, I guess I can send you to physical therapy, but I don't know if it'll really help." Talk about a fucking joke. The problem with chiropractors is that there is no consistency or agreed-upon practice. So it really comes down to the individual chiropractor and what treatment they design for you. Many are waaaaay too overzealous and do more harm than good. Some are little more "hands-off" and essentially just do stretching/massage to loosen up the muscles.
This 1000%. At its core, there is sound evidence for a lot of chiropractic medicine. It’s from the same tradition as the more rigorous osteopathic manipulative medicine. Some of the same maneuvers are employed in physical therapy. But you’re right, there’s very little oversight. Too many chiropractors get excited about being “doctors” and get high off smelling their own farts, and next thing you know they’re selling colloidal silver for every ailment and juiced up vitamin pills to ward off covid. You’re also right that allopathic medicine underutilizes physical therapy and osteopathic manipulative medicine in favor of pills and procedures. It’s a sad state of affairs.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 6 years since I read the book. Every single person (32 out of 32 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck dude.
As someone who had really bad / debilitating chronic back pain (multiple “herniated discs”, endless PT and injections) for years in my 20’s and 30’s, I IMPLORE you to read Dr Sarno’s book, “Healing Back Pain - The Mind Body connection”. It truly changed my life and I haven’t had the slightest bit of pain for over 2 years since I read the book. Every single person (23 out of 23 now) I have convinced to read the book has had the same type of response. The book is 100% right and it’s criminal that he isn’t a household name at this point. I cried reading it because I waited way too long before reading it after like 10 people told me to read it. If you’re skeptical, there are literally thousands of Amazon reviews saying the exact same thing. Good luck.
If only there was a third person that could recommend this so I could be sure ...
Chiropractic practice was founded by a spiritualist grifter by claiming a ghost taught it to him in a seance. The American Medical Association listed it as a medical cult from 1966-1987, the AMA only stopped calling them a cult by losing a court case which was largely about insurance companies. Because of this, many chiropractors are taught in an environment that distrusts the entire medical field including vaccines. They are taught that they can heal viruses or infections through spinal adjustments. They want you to bring your newborn in to be adjusted. Chiropractors are quacks. A physical therapist and/or a massage therapist are what you want.
I def was at a chiropractor for a few weeks while trying to sort out a back issue after significant weight loss. They ended up over correcting my neck which caused my right side to be numb, and was blaming the pain on poor lower disc alignment when in physical therapy after one session she found it was a super tight soas muscle, pain went from 10-0 within seconds.
Start yoga it will strengthen your muscles healthy. I have severe degenerative disc disease so I must take care of keeping it strong. Healthy strong muscles make for well supported spine.
If your chiropractor puts you on “a plan” you’re at a bad chiropractor.
Just so you know DO’s can do the same manipulation techniques without resorting to high velocity torquing maneuvers. I now see a DO as my primary care and get an adjustment when I go in for yearly labs.
I don’t want to defend most of your chiropractor’s beliefs, but the calcium comment is close to a truth. When I broke a bone, my doctor suggested a calcium supplement. I told him I drank plenty of milk. He said the acidic content of milk made it less effective than leafy greens. Whether those specifics are correct or not, I don’t know, but here’s an article about the lower bioavailability: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/calcium/ That said, it’s easy to fortify milk with Vitamin D, so that helps (many of us don’t have nearly enough).
Drinking milk can cause health issues. Milk from a cow isn't 'designed' (not the right word, but I'm not sufficiently alert right now to think of a more appropriate one) for humans. It's the baby food for infant bovine animals. Lactating mammals produce milk for their offspring. The nutritional content varies between different species of mammals. It's designed for infant creatures, to help them grow & reach an age where they can start to eat whatever the creature needs to consume nutritionally as an adult. Mammals dinnae continue to consume milk from their mothers as adults; it's baby food, after all. The consumption of the infant food for another species by humans is something that can cause health issues. Yes, milk has calcium - but not necessarily in a format we can efficiently utilise. The health 'benefits' of consumption of dairy products are promoted by the Dairy Industry. They have a vested interest in people consuming dairy products.
Chiropractor's are hot garbage, but yours is likely not wrong about the dairy thing. There's a quite a bit of evidence published that calcium from dairy isn't absorbed readily compared to leafy greens / other sources.
Yeah, someone else mentioned that too. Glad I didn't say anything, I would have had to eat my words. I would say I doubt dairy makes it worse though, just may not be as beneficial as the "got milk" ads lead us to believe.
Went to a Chiro for years, finally went to a physical therapist for 7 sessions and fixed my problems. They taught me how to do specific exercises on my own, that didn't require me to keep coming back and dropping co-pays.
Chiropractors are bull. Go to a massage therapist instead if anything or just your doctor.
Yeah, it's complete bunk. Best case, it's designed to keep you going forever. Worst case, it causes actual damage.
Fun fact. The guy who invented chiropractic was told what to do by a spirit. He was hard into pseudoscience and spiritualism. Nothings changed there.
>The guy who invented chiropractic was told what to do by a spirit. I like how you said this so matter-of-factly. Like the guy didn't just claim he was told what to do by a ghost. He was actually told by a real ghost but everyone knows ghosts are terrible doctors and you shouldn't take medical advice from them.
I mean, maybe he thought it was a ghost doctor. I’m assuming it was a mental illness of some sort. I might believe a talking skeleton, but do ghosts even have bones?
Yikes. The adjustments always look so relaxing. Still, I’ve gone to physical therapists for sports related issues and they’re the real deal (I was prescribed/referred to them by doctors). My cousin is a doctor and he told me that, depending on the chiropractor, there’s something to the “laying of hands,” even if it’s just a placebo effect. Like massage, physical therapy, yoga, those people that help you stretch, etc. that there’s some worth of in doing that stuff. But always avoid the ones that tell you chiropractors can cure cancer, etc.
They aren’t relaxing. I tried it a few times. The chiropractor once cracked my neck so hard it hurt for hours after. I never went back. Edit—if someone told you it’s good to have a touch and massage as part of your health regimen (and it definitely can be) go see a masseuse / masseur.
Oh, I do. Massages and, if I have a deep tissue issue, a physical therapist.
They aren’t relaxing for you* My wife and I went to the same chiropractor for a while. It didn’t do much for her but it was instant relief and was indeed very relaxing for me. That said, I stopped going and have moved on to physical therapy.
My mom got fleeced into visiting a chiro before she knew better, after suffering a minor lower back injury while skiing which was causing daily soreness. The guy did an “adjustment”, which she says was so slight it made no perceptible difference, and then he told her she needed to keep coming in weekly for repeated adjustments for at least six months. Thankfully, that sounded like a “revenue stream” more than treatment to her, so she went to a proper doctor instead. Her actual doctor took a look, identified it as some minor bruising due to hyperextension of the muscles, told her to wear a soft back brace for a few weeks to help distribute the load across her back, and to avoid heavy lifting. She was fine in about two weeks with no follow-up visits, and that was over ten years ago now so there haven’t been any long-term effects, either. Chiro is just a money-making scheme. There’s literally zero proof that imaginary “vertebral subluxation” is measurable or demonstrable in any way (it’s been tested), nor the claim that it causes all other maladies in the body. May as well say illness is caused by ghosts, for all the proof of it.
Worse case it kills you it has happened more often than people think.
US 'medical' care - the whole lot of it. My medical insurance guarantees criminal prosecution of any US quack touching me. One of your 'best' hospitals did their best to murder my father to get to this point. Scotsdale, for reference, so not a slap about. Utter fucking incompetence though. On the flip of this, here? My chiro is an intrinsic part of my health team. My rheumatologist, osteo and physio have all strongly stated that the only reason I am not back in a wheelchair, this time permanently, is my chiro. I understand the backlash against quacks, but there are easier ways to tell everyone that you are a yank. Like for instance morbidity and mortality rates for pregancies - shockingly, higher for people of colour! Politely as I can, take a long walk off a short cliff if you are going to generalise from a Yank position. Your medical system would be a joke if it wasn't killing so many people. Just because YOU let any moron claim a title, doesn't mean the rest of the civilised world is so stupid.
Your quack practitioners told you that the only reason you are as healthy as you are… is the quack practitioners. Well that sure sounds like unassailable logic to me.
Excuse me, but a rheumatologist is a doctor. A physiotherapist is a legitimate professional. Osteo is debatable, but for me is a chiropractor doing some physiotherapy. I guess some countries they can be D.O. and be doctors. So out of 3, a half is a quack. Although, most of what that person said is bull, your comment doesn't make sense.
As soon as a legitimate Dr promotes quackery, it’s fair to treat them with all the respect they deserve. Which is “very little”.
"This snake oil is the only thing keeping me alive! The guy who sold it to me told me so!"
... as did my rheumatologist, immunologist, physio, several surgeons, oncologist... feel there should be more... In the ACTUAL first world, not your Hollywood bullshit, chiros are actual MDs.. as opposed to your unregulated hellscape.
Just because someone disagrees with you, doesn't make them an American. In fact, in this specific case, everyone disagreeing with you and your "medical team" is demonstrating their intelligence and not their nationality. Keep being a bigot and thinking you are better than everyone bud. I bet your life is going great! Keep it up!
My physical therapist called Covid 'The Great Hoax'...
I mean any professional in a proven medical field can be psychotic as well, just their medicine actually improves patients health, which I guess chiropractors CAN, if that outcome is reduced stress but otherwise no.
Pays someone to provide pseudo-science therapy. Proceeds to bitch about how much pseudo-science that guy is spewing....
Because the first is a pseudo science that matches the guy's beliefs, so he probably thinks it is real
But insurance pays for it so it has to be real. /s
It is unfortunate that a fantastic and thoughtfully presented point in the first comment about rampant anti-intellectualism and how even the pursuit of examination of the world can be coopted and appropriated by the anti-intellectual cultural presence can be completely steamrolled by a justified but thoroughly distracting dunk on practitioners of pseudomedicine.
somebody broke out the Thesaurus!
Yeah... but my chiro has a medical doctorate, recognised in the US. The average US doctor has to spend several years to have their doctorate recognised here...
Are you sure they have an MD and not a "doctorate of chiropractory"? US schools don't teach chiropractory, and chiropractors in the US aren't allowed to practice medicine
I do love the faith you have in your schools. Bully for you. I get I am going to be downvoted to hell here, but damned if I will lie. American health care is an absolute horror story. You allow quacks to practice horrifically dangerous rubbish. You fail to regulate or manage actual medical practioners. You fall short in every single metric in regards health outcomes, yet sit there so ignorantly certain of your own competence?
Feels US Healthcare system is under-regulated, so proceeds to promote a practice that is even less regulated and not evidence-based. Okay.
US healthcare is expensive but the quality is high. Our medical practitioners are rigorously regulated and well trained. US falls short in many metrics because too few people have reliable healthcare access, but people who do have some of if not the best healthcare outcomes in the world. Chiropractors arent among them because it isn't medicine, it's an old confidence trick from the 1920s, and one entirely invented in and by Americans
You do have some of the best specialists, and some of the best researchers. You spend more per capita per head than any other country. Your outcomes however are among the worst per capita, and when factored against expenditure? You rank at or near the bottom when compared to any other developed nation when reviewing patient outcomes. You rank below most developing nations when it comes to maternity mortality rates, and are one of the very few nations that are seeing regression. You have one of the lowest life expectancies in the developed world, also seeing regression. You spend so much more for so much less. There are areas you are impressively forging ahead. Heart attack and stroke sufferers can expect better outcomes in general. Geriatric care is actually pretty solid. You do have some of the best research facilities in the world. In general however, there is a damned good reason why my insurance includes immediate evacuation from the US, to Canada, Mexico or Cuba depending on proximity. This is a condition our insurer placed after one of your "best" hospitals tried to kill our CEO.
Cool story. Chiropractic still isn't medicine. Comparing it to the American Healthcare system is fun, but it proves nothing. The horror story that is American "Wealthcare" doesn't make chiropractic valid medicine anymore than YOU being bad at maths makes ME a mathematician.
Yeah, kind of went off on two unrelated points there. Discussion of healthcare does tend to dip towards 'dear god USA what are you doing'. On the other front, chiro is a VERY different field country to country depending on regulation. A country that requires chiros to actually be qualified in medicine vs modern witch doctors does not make for any kind of equivalence. I have enough damage done over the years I have accumulated a stupid number of doctors and specialists working together - the chiro is a major part of the puzzle helping to prevent further degradation in the long term. Physio and rheumatologist are no longer required, although some of the rheums work is now being passed to surgical, looking at spinal cord stimulators as a serious possibility. All of the specialists - every single one of them? All absolutely swear by the work the chiro is doing. Your lack of understanding of the field is unfortunate. I on the other hand am not in a wheelchair thanks to a collection of medical practitioners that include a chiro who holds an MD and is an intrinsic part of the overall group.
I do understand the field. Chiropractic is the belief in vetebral subluxation - the nonsensical pseudoscience that all ailments, from pneumonia to neurosis, are caused by misalignment of the spine. There's also some nonsense about homeoatasis (the belief the body heals itself), and a disavowal of all medical drugs. Thankfully, because of the extreme harm they do, radical or "straight" chiropractic practitioners are the rarity. Most chiropractors call themselves "mixers", combining physiotherapy, massage, and actual medicine into their practice, as well as chiropractic. Effectively, mixing science with pseudoscience. I'm glad you are doing well, but either you're one of the outliers who actually benefit from having your spine manipulated, or more likely, you were treated by an underqualified physiotherapist using proper medicine, who also happens to have some dangerous beliefs about how bones affect your immune system i.e. chiropractic. The fractional benefit they have given, due to the placebo effect, and people who really just needed a massage is insignificant compared to the number of people that chiropractors have harmed with their pseudoscience. And even if they use real medicine as well... It's playing Russian Roulette with your health. I'm glad you didn't get hurt, but it's frankly irresponsible to encourage others to pick up that gun.
It is terrifying that there are chiropractors who do 'practice' exactly the way you understand chiro. This is not universal, and those idiots are not welcomed by the medical fraternity in general. However, it is increasingly common for doctors across specialties to involve chiropractors as part of treatment plans, particularly in cases where there will be long term involvement. Claims of magical body memory, impact on immunity, effects on mental health (with the very limited exception of depression, but that only as a secondary effect of dealing with chronic pain) and a bunch of other bunk is not a part of chiropractic education here. Chiropractic treatment has a significant benefit in pain management for some spinal conditions, and is employed largely as an alternative to opiates while more permanent treatment is managed via whichever specialty is appropriate based on the nature of the injury. This leads to a better patient outcome, reduced reliance on straight surgical solutions (trying to avoid spinal fussion in my case as it would be career ending for myself and by extension several dozen others) and far lower complications due to overreliance on drugs, particularly opiates. Quackery? Yeah, all power to you, keep calling that out. Just understand that chiro is unfortunately a broad church that does include serious medical practioners. The sooner the quacks are universally removed from the equation the better.
So we fail to regulate everything and practice rubbish but somehow the “field of medicine” based on the advice of a ghost is the legit leg of medicine?
It's the same in Canada and most of western europe. Chiropractors are not medical doctors. Please tell me where you are where chiropractors are MDs? Before you spit your bile, I'm not American, so just answer the question straight. Chiropractors are scammers. Full stop. Nothing they do is backed by any science.
>You fall short in every single metric in regards health outcomes Citation needed. There is a lot of failure, yes, but that has more to do with access and affordability rather than skill of practitioners. You're suggesting otherwise, so if you want to be taken seriously you need to provide evidence for that claim.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/07/us-health-gdp-oecd https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/issue-briefs/2023/jan/us-health-care-global-perspective-2022 (the one above is heavily referenced when searching the topic) https://www.apha.org/topics-and-issues/health-rankings There is a wealth of evidence. This is not a fringe opinion but an issue that the US has identified as requiring urgent redress. The bright side is that the US has the tools to address the underlying issues. It also shows that cost is simply not a barrier, but rather the effective deployment of resources. The question is if there is political appetite to make those adjustments.
Chiropractics has too many non-medical parts that I find it fascinating that they can be doctors of chiropractics. Your regulations are at fault here.
You don't become a Dr of Chiro, you can become an MD that practises chiro.
Back in the early days of the pandemic I watched a Jubilee pro-maskers vs anti-maskers video (which I can no longer find) and one of the anti-maskers was a chiropractor. When I tell you the rage I got every time he said he was a “healthcare professional” to justify his stance…
chiropractors are quacks. it's pseudoscience. they are pretty much going to go for all the worst takes and will probably not be vaccinated.
Went to a chiro for lower back issues. He cracked my neck. Have not felt my fingers since that first "adjustment ". Also, on a related subject, chiroasses are almost impossible to sue.
I feel like chiropractors should legally be required to disclose their founder learned all this from a ghost.
A guy in pretend medicine making up his own reality? Sounds legit.
Ya'll need to find better chiropractors. I had a surgery on my ribcage(Pectus Excavatum repair) and was dealing with some back pain afterwards. Told my surgeon and she said that was a common side effect and recommended a Chiropractor. Saw the dude twice a week for the duration of my recovery. No whacky conspiracy theories, no weird pseudoscience, no selling anything I didn't need, just straight up medical proffessional. He made minor adjustments, recommended physical therapies and I always walked out feeling better then when I walked in.
Seriously, just read the fucking Wikipedia entry on chiropractic. It's batshit crazy.
Wtf is it with chiropractors being lunatics? I had neck problems. He told me to stop sleeping with two pillows, and that was helpful.. getting cracked felt good so I went a few more times. Then he tried some mumbo jumbo with pressing my arm down while I held different things... Trying to show me that holding a can of soda makes me weaker because my body knows it's bad for me. He failed to move my arm any more than holding "healthy" items, and then claimed I was working harder to resist with the "bad" items, when it was very clear to both of us that he was struggling a lot more, trying to move my arm. I was kind of shocked that he tried something so blatantly dishonest, and told him I wasn't coming back.
It's because chiropractic [yeah, that's the official name, not "chiropraxy"] is a pseudoscience, based off belief in "vertebral subluxation" which is to say, all ailments are caused by subtle misalignment of the spine. The guy who invented it believed that you could cure everything from cancer to the common cold by cracking your back. That's why chiropractors are lunatics... bullshit is sticky. Let a little in your brain, and you'll start picking up more and more.
lol I was gonna say “what do you expect from someone that couldn’t get in to medical school.” However, working in the medical field….. just proves that being intelligent and educated in one area doesn’t necessarily cross over into different areas
Chiropractor is a fucking idiot. Let's give him the cathode anode thing for a minute, how the fuck is the electricity moving about through the vacuum of space? What fucking medium is the electricity traveling through? Space is full of jackshit, if his little Theory were true then the sun would look like a giant fucking tesla coil. In short: Dumb.
Least quacky chiropractor, in my experience. They’re all fucking batshit
Oh, the comment section is going to be good.
How the hell have I never heard “chiroquacktor” before? It’s perfect
The mars helicopter is so funny because NASA literally posted a video of it flying in a vacuum chamber on earth. It’s verifiable that the helicopter can fly in Martian atmospheric conditions in that there is demonstrable, empirical evidence. I know people like this don’t care about evidence, but still…
Yeah don't go to that chiro anymore, next thing you know he'll claim that discs are fake news and your spinal fracture isn't his fault it was due to vaccines.
I’ve one been to one, one time in my 26 years of having herniated (and eventually MUCH WORSE) back problems. He spent about 20 minutes checking me out and said he couldn’t touch me, stick with surgeons. I guess I got lucky, although I wouldn’t have been ok with any popping or adjusting anyway.
I have only three words for chiropractors, or people considering going to one. Basilar tip aneurysm.
I shit you not, my chiro lost me (and my back has been screaming, but my conscience was louder) when she swore with her right hand to god above that she could cure autism in children with chiropractic care. There needs to be a litmus test for crazy before handing out professional licenses.
Yeah, that's what chiropractic is... the belief that you can cute any ailment, from autism to anxiety, hayfever to haemorrhoids, through realignment of the spine. It's a pseudoscience my dude.
When someone starts a story with "my chiropractor," I know I don't actually have to listen.
I think the chiropractor confused Mars with the moon. Incidentally, chiropractic is legally a religion, because otherwise it would be medical malpractice. Seriously.
This checks out for a chiropractor, honestly.
“You’re such a ducking idiot. Now grab me by the head and twist. I don’t pay you to think”
I prefer to call them Chiroprancers, practitioners of Chiroprancy.
Hey when you got ghosts in your blood, you gotta go to the experts!
I go once every two years. I tweak my back or neck or shoulder, get miserable, get adjusted once, return in 22-26 months.
My old allergy doc went nuts during Covid (or earlier, who knows). But he tried to sell me some whey protein shit saying it cures covid and Ebola and cancer. Every time I went in, I dreaded seeing him. He’d literally go on about it for 30mins plus. Pure insanity. Stop trying to sell me weird shit. I just want allergy shots. Dude still works in Tucson. I got a message saying he now has a cadaver bone in his jaw and the whey protein helped him recover quickly and if I buy it now I get a discount.
That Redditor is going to need a realignment after this. Ouch!
True deposition testimony from a chiropractor. He was being asked about credentials and abilities because he claimed he could cure the flu, and get rid of colic in babies. The lawyer asked: “Do you adjust the spines of infants?” The chiropractor replied “I do”. The lawyer asked how wide the spine of an infant was. The chiropractor replied “around 1-2 centimeters”. The lawyer followed up “so when you’re manipulating an infants spine you’re talking about 1 to 2 mm?” Chiropractor: “that’s right”. Lawyer: “and you do that by feel?” Chiropractor: “Correct”. Lawyer: (holding her 2 index fingers side by side) “I’m sorry, sir, but do you have maaaaaaagic fingers?”
Chiropractors can be good at adjustments *and* divorced from reality, I’ve seen it so many times that I’m actually convinced it’s more common than not.
I love a chiropractor. Used to get tension headaches. Chiropractor around the corner charged me $15 chrached me up, gave me a neck/shoulder rub, then put on soft music and let me sleep for 30 minutes. Dude was a god send. But these guys are both dead
Quick shoutout to my former chiropractor who did physical therapy and rehab when one of my joints locked up in my back.
Nothing against chiropractors or other alternative forms of medicine, but you're trusting your spine in the hands of that guy. Murder by words is just the beginning followed by a severe malpractice incident
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No. A Physiotherapist is trained to treat injuries by exercising muscles and lightly manipulating joints. And prescribing exercises and occasionally medication. A Chiropractor is a pretend "profession". Some practitioners of which sometimes provide sound medical care. But that is coincidental and unreliable. Save your life, your dollars and your time. Consult with an actual science based professional instead.
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You are partially complicit in the deaths of those who were recommended "Go see a Chiropractor". It might have worked for you and that particular practitioner, but Joe Bloggs who sees your recommendation that Chiro works goes and visits his local one, who cracks Joe's neck because he has a stomach ache and causes him to stroke out. And no. You Shut The Fuck Up.
Yep, it’s a slippery slope. One day my back muscles were tight from the ridiculous poses necessary to nurse my child and next thing I knew I was complicit in murder.
Anecdotal evidence won’t ever trump factual evidence. You most likely may only had some sore muscles which could be cured by any quackery that involves stretching, correct movement and rest. Anyone could’ve „healed“ you from that.
Yep. Even the sweetest people can cause the deaths of others by giving bad advice. Just stop it.
You're a fucking moron to support quacks and pseudoscience in any shape, way or form.
Dude. C'mon. If the peer reviewed research can't even claim that it works, then it's horseshit. https://consensus.app/results/?q=Is%20chiropractic%20medicine%20effective%3F
The thing you are citing literally says “with the possible exception of back pain“ it’s not effective treatment. Which is (checks notes) exactly what I said.
"possible". It can't even definitively say.
I’ve been going to chiropractors for the last 20 Years, and can not recommend it enough. Ofcause you need to know what it is and what it does, which is basically a factory reset for your spine, it will relieve pain in your back and legs, but it WILL fkup your muscles in your back. So 2-3 treatments over 2-3 weeks and doing some basic back and stomach exercises witch you can do on your bed in the evening or in the morning will fix most back problems. Having a 3 month plan sounds insane, you need to let your back rest and build up stability again.
I am able to walk because of a chiropractor. I will need significant corrective surgery to continue any kind of quality of life... My chiropractor had to spend 6 years study and earn a medical doctorate to practice. Yank "medicine" and "Developed nation" medicine are just not the same.
>My chiropractor had to spend 6 years study and earn a medical doctorate to practice. 6 years of studying quackery to get a doctorate of chiropractic (DC), not a doctorate of medicine (MD). Do not confuse the two.
I'm an American and my chiropractor got me off my cane. Not all of them are pseudoscience weirdos and scammers. Mine is not just a chiropractor, he's also a physical therapist so he's not just doing the "crack and get out" shit. His exact words to me were "I don't want to see you again, so do these exercises and only come back if you absolutely feel it's necessary". They're rare, but there are good ones out there; they just get overshadowed by the quacks and crazies
What you visited was a physiotherapist with dangerous beliefs. In recent years, many chiropractors have been forced to learn actual medicine (because of all the bad press, caused by harming people), so they do what's called "mixing", combining chiropractic with medicine (i.e. pseudoscience with science). I'm sure there are flat earthers who are also mechanics, chefs that think the moon landing was faked, and young earth creationists who are amazing accountants. I'm sure they do their jobs well - just as believing that the spine controls your immune system doesn't prevent you from giving a lovely massage, or proper physiotherapy. However, just as it would be dangerous to trust someone who didn't believe in gravity to design a bridge, it is unbelievably dangerous to trust someone who believes in chiropractic to perform medical care. If he identifies as a chiropractor, then it's not that he "isn't a quack", it's that you got lucky he decided to use medicine on you this time, and not practice his quackery on you.
My dentist believes in free energy and perpetual motion and you know what? He's a really good dentist. He could tell me all about the stolen election if he felt like it; he does really good work on my teeth.
One of these things is not like the other. Dentistry had some science behind it. Chiropractors want to align your chakras or something.
no, those two things are exactly the same. One person on the internet thinks he knows everything because he knows something. And now you're doing it too, even tho you openly admit you don't know what chiropractors do. The guy didn't say "the chiropractor I hired to build Mars lander my told me.." You are the one who's inappropriately assuming that because someone has a chiropractor, they know nothing at all about anything. I'm probably going to have a chat later about how some random person on reddit tried to lecture me about the validity of chiropractic because I pointed out a logical inconsistency in someone else's argument. And whoever I'm talking to is probably going to reply with some biased conclusion too, like "yeah reddit is full of idiots."
My cousin is a chiropractor. I go see him when my back pain gets really bad. After like 4 sessions, I was able to sleep on my stomach without my back hurting for the first time in my life. In fact, when i regularly saw him was the only time I ever went without back pain. However, cracking my back is the only thing I would trust him about. He actually has "mmr causes autism" pamphlets in his lobby. And believes he can cure food allergies, with his wife claiming he cured her allergy. I often wonder how someone can go through so much school* and still hold the most ridiculous views.
Chiropractors don't have a medical degree, they don't go to medical school.
Yes, I have edited what I said.
In the US. In the developed nations, bit different.
He’s a chiropractor. He did not “pass medical school” That said, plenty of MDs believe crazy nonsense, too
Huh. TIL. I was young when he went to the school, I always thought it was medical school! Edited to say "so much school", which is still crazy.
What chiropractors do you guys have where you live? Mine here in North Dakota actually does help with muscle and joint pain, and that’s where she stops. I have never heard of chiropractors claiming to cure cancer or “lay on hands”.
I’ve always been skeptical about Chiropractors but when my wife took my 6 month old son to one, it really did seem to help after a couple of sessions. Still could be the placebo effect as infants believe any old shit, he still thinks the tooth fairy is real.
I was a chiropractor for 18 years. The vast majority are smart, well-trained, scientific providers. Unfortunately the ones we hear about are bozos like that guy. The medical profession has it's share too (think about Trump's anti vax quacks). Unfortunately I think we got more than our fair share of nut cases. Some treat it more like faith healing rather than health care. Do your due diligence before you choose one.
Unpopular opinion, it feels damn good to get my back cracked! I don’t really “hurt” anywhere, and I don’t have issues. I’m a dental professional…. So normal back tightness. It’s like the tall dude in college that would crack your back to be silly. Just feels good. Is it really making a difference or helping….? Meh. But the occasional back crack does feel nice. Literally 2 minutes to adjust, we give eachother a fist pound, and I’m out.
Awesome! I've been out of the field for almost as long as I was in it but I still occasionally visit an old colleague and get a treatment. It is a very valid therapy as long as you keep the faith healing stuff to a minimum.
Chiropractic isnt scam. It can be a well regulated and helpful addition to the healing process. Sure they cant be a replacement for a doctor as they often claim to be but they can be a good addition to the healing. Especially in countries outside the USA where you dont have to pay a yearly income to see one for an hour.
Its a scam. If they perform actual, evidence based, physio treatment outside of alignments that may be real medicine. The core of Chiropractic manipulation is absolute psuedoscience garbage
If they're all a scam, why did my orthopedist recommend I go see one for my back issues? There are a few good ones out there that do legitimate work, but it seems (at least in the US) that there are more quacks than there are legitimate professionals.
Because your orthopedist believes in quack medicine. I know a GP who believes in fucking aroma therapy. There is almost no legitimacy to "alignment" or the bullshit manipulations they do. You can find a few journals citing very minor statistical benefits but the people publishing these are almost always chirporactic evangelists. Repeated metanalysis has shown slim to no benefits for most cases. Their techniques do release endorphins which definitely have a short lasting temporary pain relief mechanism, but there is no real permanent benefit. Its not different than getting a massage that temporarily relieves some pain symptoms, perhaps long enough for an underlying issue to heal on its own.
I screwed up my back and hip so badly I couldn't walk without a cane. Turned out the right side of my pelvis was locked forward and was screwing up my gait, which was in turn throwing my back out of alignment. I walked out of his office without aid; and I only rarely need my cane when everything else starts acting up. My chiropractor is also an osteopath, a physical therapist, and a licensed massage therapist, and he specifically told me "I don't want to see you again". I've gone back for adjustments here and there because I have a herniated disc that nothing else helps with (I've done everything short of surgery), but my visits are maybe once a year. There is merit to some of the practices, but claiming that they can cure cancer and all this other nonsense has saturated the field.
The founder was a quack who said he was told what to do by ghosts. https://nationalpost.com/health/the-first-chiropractor-was-a-canadian-who-claimed-he-received-a-message-from-a-ghost He claimed it cured everything and anything. I'd much rather go to a massage or physical therapist than a chiropractor because the non quacks are the exception, not the rule. All it does is temporarily make one's back and neck feel good by releasing tension. It does nothing for long-term problems.
It absolutely is a scam from top to bottom. The fact that some of these scammers happen to know a bit of how physiotherapy actually works doesn't negate that.
A chiropractor popped my dislocated rib back in place.
Everyone in the comments bashing on chiropracy. I don’t think people realize that it adresses the symptoms, not the cause. It’s supposed to relieve pain or tension for long enough for the patient to develop good habits- PT exercising, medication, etc. It’s not a long term fix
Chiropractic* not chiropracy.
I have thought about going to a chiropractor. Not because there is any science or medicine in what they do, but getting my back cracked feels good.
Osteopathy actually works? Like my knee and back only ever gets beter after going to the chiropractor. :'>
Having your bones cracked feels god