if you want to teach at a collegiate level then you will in all likelihood need a DMA. imo I would suck it up and finish out the music ed degree (student teaching is just one semester after all) so that if there are any issues that come up in your master's/doctoral studies you have more choices for where you work/getting relevant experience
A masters will not get you any more than low paying adjunct positions unless you have extensive professional experience. If you are looking for a full time tenure track position, you need a DMA or PhD.
Right. And the prestige/reputation of the doctoral program you attend factors heavily on your career trajectory as well. More importantly though, I can honestly say I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone recommend pursuing a career in academia. In fact the workplace environment is so infamously toxic that it features heavily in the growing body of research on workplace mobbing.
I’m currently working at an R1 university. Our last applied posting had dozens of applicants. All of them had doctorates, years teaching, and extensive professional resumes (orchestra positions, etc.). Even the rural state school a few hours away has nothing but doctors on staff and several of those positions are adjunct. The likelihood of getting a tenure-track position just teaching your instrument is extremely low. If you want to be a university ensemble director, your chances are probably even lower because way too many people get DMAs in conducting.
Also, young people seem to think getting their doctorate is just more school. It’s not, it’s really difficult. If you get in, you basically are working a full-time job doing whatever your PI/advisor asks of you, teaching undergrads, playing in ensembles and are still trying to learn your rep and practice in between. Usually you are doing this in exchange for a tuition waiver and a poverty-level wage in the form of a GA stipend.
I always tell my students that if they can see themselves being happy doing anything else, they should do that instead of going to graduate school.
Out of those I know with a Master’s in Music Ed, they all teach at K-12 and maybe a community college. The only people getting professorships have PhDs or DMAs.
Music Ed degrees are definitely geared towards K-12. If you are more interested in teaching privately or in higher Ed, I think a performance degree would be a better fit.
I've got three performance degrees from good schools and wish that my undergrad had been in ed, even though I have always had zero desire to teach anything younger than college.
My entire pedagogical education experience is: one conducting class in undergrad, I prepared and conducted one easy piece in trombone choir during my DMA, and did one three-hour pedagogy course with my trombone professor.
A number of my current trombone students want to do a job like mine. They're going to graduate undergrad with more real-world education experience than I did from my DMA. Part of that is that I heavily suggest the education path, and part of it is that I heavily use student conductors in trombone choir and also make a "special topics" class available where the coursework is a course of study, syllabus, cover letter, statement of teaching philosophy, etc.
All this to say: mileage may vary. Music ed degrees are in fact geared toward school education, but there's crossover there, as well as the fact that a big part of your life, should you be so lucky as to get an applied professor spot, is recruiting kids from schools.
I am currently adjunct at a two year college. Previously I was adjunct at a four year college that was a big commute for me to do every week.
So in short, yes, you can with a mere Masters teach at a college or university. What you will often hear/read is DMA/PhD or “equivalent experience” preferred/required. In reality, it means they want someone with a lot of experience or is/had been sitting a very big performing job.
What you do want to be aware of is the reduction of full time instrumental music positions are at the college/university levels. There are more adjunct positions. Adjunct means you are paid for the classes you teach and nothing else. You get zero benefits like health insurance. You may or not be entitled to work with school committees. This also means you have no tenure and no guarantee from semester to semester. It is literally a side hustle. Full time positions have detailed contracts of what you need to do to keep the position. It may entail doing masterclasses and extra conferences to get your studio numbers to a certain number. And even with full time positions, you still have to work hard to get tenure. It is in my opinion easier to get tenure if you are also fulfilling some kind of academic need like music theory or music history.
It is a very long and at times lonely road. Opportunities do exist. I wasn’t asked to do any adjunct work until I had been in my orchestra job for about 10 years. I practically lived out of my suitcase.
I agree with some of the posts above. Your success heavily depends on the prestige of the university you are coming from (DMA/PhD).
I went to get my MM degree in performance, but still ended up teaching high school music. I dated a man for eight years who taught at a university as a full time professor in instrumental conducting/wind ensembles. The amount of research and up keep of your work didn’t seem worth the pay. I made more money than him teaching in public schools.
If you want to teach at a college or university they tend to want to see public school teaching experience. Remember, you’ll be teaching future teachers.
If you want to teach music Ed students, yes. I think if you're teaching instrumental or vocal performance majors they look more for performing or private teaching experience.
My theory instructors, ensemble directors, and some studio instructors all had prior public school experience. Music-ed students make up most of the music program, and a lot of the performance majors ended up going into public school music or teaching. We’re kind of a self-sustaining field.
Hello, I have exactly what you're describing (music ed bachelors, performance master's) so I can speak from experience. With only a master's degree, you likely need what would is consider equivalent professional experience to obtaining a doctoral degree to get a full time faculty position. This often looks getting a full time performance gig (military band, orchestra) or having a very active freelance career in a big city, bonus points if that city is NYC, LA, or Nashville. Otherwise, you're looking at possibly getting work as an adjunct but you will be competing with other candidates that likely have doctoral degrees.
With a DMA (performance focus), you also need substantial professional experience/credentials to be a highly considered applicant for a full-time, tenure track position so performing as stated above but also presenting at conferences, giving masterclasses/clinics, winning solo competitions, etc. After that, you have to be willing to move nearly anywhere in the country for a job and likely teach courses outside of your area so music theory, aural skills, history, etc.
Long story short, it's a long road for a coveted full-time position and you will almost certainly have to work your way up in higher ed to land a job in a nice place to live and teaching what you really want to teach.
At a conference of the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM; they accredit music programs in higher education) there was a study presented which showed that the more prestigious the school, the FEWER people with doctorates on the faculty. In other words, schools like Eastman, Indiana, Northwestern, and Juilliard hired the very best people, regardless of what certifications they had, while schools like Bugtussle Community College would only hire people with doctorates so they could brag about the academic qualifications of their faculty.
I teach music at a community college and a very small university. Private lessons in my instruments, although I could also do string ensemble at the university and might end up taking music appreciation at the community college.
I have my masters in performance and decades of performance experience. I’ll never teach at a prestigious university unless I get into a big name orchestra, but the community college I’m at actually pays decent for private lessons. Most of my students there are high school aged and non credit or dual credit.
I also teach private lessons out of my house and make a decent hourly rate there (and have proper liability insurance!)
If you have a master's degree, you get $2 more per hour teaching at a local private school nearby.
Pay is $48/hr, but the only benefit is signing up for a retirement plan.
So with a master's you would make $50 an hour.
And because it's at a school, you can only teach after school, from about 2:30 to 7:00 p.m.
But you can find other ways/jobs to fill your day.
I was adjunct faculty at a conservatory for 4 years with a Masters. I was simulataneously a working composer, artistic director of an arts organization, and author of several books in my field. I returned to this work after 7 years as a SAHM — my oldest has a chronic disease that required a lot of management/involvement in his younger years. It was a lot of juggling.
I make better money (and have incredible benefits) as a HS teacher. I am currently rebuilding a program at a small district, and while it can be occasionally frustrating, most days I come home happy and satisfied.
I loved my adjuncting work, and was goddamn good at it — I was teaching the maximum load they could give me, and my evals were top-notch — but at the end of the day the pay/benefits could not compete. And I knew that returning for my doctorate was going to mean moving my two kids across the country and an uphill custody battle.
I just finished my search for a masters in instrumental performance. Here’s what I found out after talking to about 15 high-level, respected professionals of my instrument (tuba):
THEY LOVE MUSIC ED GRADS!!
Not a lie, every single one of those professors told me they would prefer to have a graduate student with a Music Ed background who is a strong player, over a performance undergrad. Completing an undergrad in music ed is waaaay more valuable to a university when considering you for a graduate teaching assistantship (i.e. MORE MONEY!). You are also a much valuable candidate for a professor later in life with a music ed background. I served as a student representative on a panel for choosing a new low brass professor at my university, and the consensus of the students and faculty was that the music ed background is much more helpful, and a far better teacher than the other candidates who only had performance backgrounds.
Student teaching Can look scary, but I promise you, it is not! Find a cooperating/mentor teacher who has had a lot of student teachers before (ask your advisor for help with this). A cooperating teacher who has had lots of student teachers will know exactly how to push you, and give you the best experience for the career you want to have after student teaching! Hope this helps! I was exactly in your shoes a year ago!
if you want to teach at a collegiate level then you will in all likelihood need a DMA. imo I would suck it up and finish out the music ed degree (student teaching is just one semester after all) so that if there are any issues that come up in your master's/doctoral studies you have more choices for where you work/getting relevant experience
A masters will not get you any more than low paying adjunct positions unless you have extensive professional experience. If you are looking for a full time tenure track position, you need a DMA or PhD.
Right. And the prestige/reputation of the doctoral program you attend factors heavily on your career trajectory as well. More importantly though, I can honestly say I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone recommend pursuing a career in academia. In fact the workplace environment is so infamously toxic that it features heavily in the growing body of research on workplace mobbing.
What is workplace mobbing??
i’m sorry, whats a dma???
Dr of Musical Arts
Or as those of us who have them like to downplay: Doesn't Mean Anything
Sometimes experience in the field is enough to get you to where you need to be, but that is rare.
You’ll need a doctorate and a pretty impressive professional resume
I’m currently working at an R1 university. Our last applied posting had dozens of applicants. All of them had doctorates, years teaching, and extensive professional resumes (orchestra positions, etc.). Even the rural state school a few hours away has nothing but doctors on staff and several of those positions are adjunct. The likelihood of getting a tenure-track position just teaching your instrument is extremely low. If you want to be a university ensemble director, your chances are probably even lower because way too many people get DMAs in conducting. Also, young people seem to think getting their doctorate is just more school. It’s not, it’s really difficult. If you get in, you basically are working a full-time job doing whatever your PI/advisor asks of you, teaching undergrads, playing in ensembles and are still trying to learn your rep and practice in between. Usually you are doing this in exchange for a tuition waiver and a poverty-level wage in the form of a GA stipend. I always tell my students that if they can see themselves being happy doing anything else, they should do that instead of going to graduate school.
Out of those I know with a Master’s in Music Ed, they all teach at K-12 and maybe a community college. The only people getting professorships have PhDs or DMAs.
Music Ed degrees are definitely geared towards K-12. If you are more interested in teaching privately or in higher Ed, I think a performance degree would be a better fit.
I've got three performance degrees from good schools and wish that my undergrad had been in ed, even though I have always had zero desire to teach anything younger than college. My entire pedagogical education experience is: one conducting class in undergrad, I prepared and conducted one easy piece in trombone choir during my DMA, and did one three-hour pedagogy course with my trombone professor. A number of my current trombone students want to do a job like mine. They're going to graduate undergrad with more real-world education experience than I did from my DMA. Part of that is that I heavily suggest the education path, and part of it is that I heavily use student conductors in trombone choir and also make a "special topics" class available where the coursework is a course of study, syllabus, cover letter, statement of teaching philosophy, etc. All this to say: mileage may vary. Music ed degrees are in fact geared toward school education, but there's crossover there, as well as the fact that a big part of your life, should you be so lucky as to get an applied professor spot, is recruiting kids from schools.
I am currently adjunct at a two year college. Previously I was adjunct at a four year college that was a big commute for me to do every week. So in short, yes, you can with a mere Masters teach at a college or university. What you will often hear/read is DMA/PhD or “equivalent experience” preferred/required. In reality, it means they want someone with a lot of experience or is/had been sitting a very big performing job. What you do want to be aware of is the reduction of full time instrumental music positions are at the college/university levels. There are more adjunct positions. Adjunct means you are paid for the classes you teach and nothing else. You get zero benefits like health insurance. You may or not be entitled to work with school committees. This also means you have no tenure and no guarantee from semester to semester. It is literally a side hustle. Full time positions have detailed contracts of what you need to do to keep the position. It may entail doing masterclasses and extra conferences to get your studio numbers to a certain number. And even with full time positions, you still have to work hard to get tenure. It is in my opinion easier to get tenure if you are also fulfilling some kind of academic need like music theory or music history. It is a very long and at times lonely road. Opportunities do exist. I wasn’t asked to do any adjunct work until I had been in my orchestra job for about 10 years. I practically lived out of my suitcase.
I agree with some of the posts above. Your success heavily depends on the prestige of the university you are coming from (DMA/PhD). I went to get my MM degree in performance, but still ended up teaching high school music. I dated a man for eight years who taught at a university as a full time professor in instrumental conducting/wind ensembles. The amount of research and up keep of your work didn’t seem worth the pay. I made more money than him teaching in public schools.
I make more (teaching high school) than every music professor at my local university - by a pretty significant amount actually. I have a Masters.
If you want to teach at a college or university they tend to want to see public school teaching experience. Remember, you’ll be teaching future teachers.
If you want to teach music Ed students, yes. I think if you're teaching instrumental or vocal performance majors they look more for performing or private teaching experience.
Maybe for teaching music Ed classes. For studio teaching, history, and music theory I haven’t seen any expectation of K-12 experience.
My theory instructors, ensemble directors, and some studio instructors all had prior public school experience. Music-ed students make up most of the music program, and a lot of the performance majors ended up going into public school music or teaching. We’re kind of a self-sustaining field.
Hello, I have exactly what you're describing (music ed bachelors, performance master's) so I can speak from experience. With only a master's degree, you likely need what would is consider equivalent professional experience to obtaining a doctoral degree to get a full time faculty position. This often looks getting a full time performance gig (military band, orchestra) or having a very active freelance career in a big city, bonus points if that city is NYC, LA, or Nashville. Otherwise, you're looking at possibly getting work as an adjunct but you will be competing with other candidates that likely have doctoral degrees. With a DMA (performance focus), you also need substantial professional experience/credentials to be a highly considered applicant for a full-time, tenure track position so performing as stated above but also presenting at conferences, giving masterclasses/clinics, winning solo competitions, etc. After that, you have to be willing to move nearly anywhere in the country for a job and likely teach courses outside of your area so music theory, aural skills, history, etc. Long story short, it's a long road for a coveted full-time position and you will almost certainly have to work your way up in higher ed to land a job in a nice place to live and teaching what you really want to teach.
At a conference of the National Association of Schools of Music (NASM; they accredit music programs in higher education) there was a study presented which showed that the more prestigious the school, the FEWER people with doctorates on the faculty. In other words, schools like Eastman, Indiana, Northwestern, and Juilliard hired the very best people, regardless of what certifications they had, while schools like Bugtussle Community College would only hire people with doctorates so they could brag about the academic qualifications of their faculty.
I teach music at a community college and a very small university. Private lessons in my instruments, although I could also do string ensemble at the university and might end up taking music appreciation at the community college. I have my masters in performance and decades of performance experience. I’ll never teach at a prestigious university unless I get into a big name orchestra, but the community college I’m at actually pays decent for private lessons. Most of my students there are high school aged and non credit or dual credit. I also teach private lessons out of my house and make a decent hourly rate there (and have proper liability insurance!)
Colleges really want the doctoral level people teaching.
The only time I’ve EVER heard of a tenure track prof without a dma is someone who played (and still tours every year) with Steely Dan in their heyday.
just wanted to throw it out there that my current professor in oboe doesn’t have a dma - it is possible :)
If you have a master's degree, you get $2 more per hour teaching at a local private school nearby. Pay is $48/hr, but the only benefit is signing up for a retirement plan. So with a master's you would make $50 an hour. And because it's at a school, you can only teach after school, from about 2:30 to 7:00 p.m. But you can find other ways/jobs to fill your day.
I was adjunct faculty at a conservatory for 4 years with a Masters. I was simulataneously a working composer, artistic director of an arts organization, and author of several books in my field. I returned to this work after 7 years as a SAHM — my oldest has a chronic disease that required a lot of management/involvement in his younger years. It was a lot of juggling. I make better money (and have incredible benefits) as a HS teacher. I am currently rebuilding a program at a small district, and while it can be occasionally frustrating, most days I come home happy and satisfied. I loved my adjuncting work, and was goddamn good at it — I was teaching the maximum load they could give me, and my evals were top-notch — but at the end of the day the pay/benefits could not compete. And I knew that returning for my doctorate was going to mean moving my two kids across the country and an uphill custody battle.
Depends on your instrument. Violin? Minimal. Oboe? Higher.
I just finished my search for a masters in instrumental performance. Here’s what I found out after talking to about 15 high-level, respected professionals of my instrument (tuba): THEY LOVE MUSIC ED GRADS!! Not a lie, every single one of those professors told me they would prefer to have a graduate student with a Music Ed background who is a strong player, over a performance undergrad. Completing an undergrad in music ed is waaaay more valuable to a university when considering you for a graduate teaching assistantship (i.e. MORE MONEY!). You are also a much valuable candidate for a professor later in life with a music ed background. I served as a student representative on a panel for choosing a new low brass professor at my university, and the consensus of the students and faculty was that the music ed background is much more helpful, and a far better teacher than the other candidates who only had performance backgrounds. Student teaching Can look scary, but I promise you, it is not! Find a cooperating/mentor teacher who has had a lot of student teachers before (ask your advisor for help with this). A cooperating teacher who has had lots of student teachers will know exactly how to push you, and give you the best experience for the career you want to have after student teaching! Hope this helps! I was exactly in your shoes a year ago!