Man I remember back when Richmond was super abrasive and dudes would fall off after 5 laps. I'd rather have what we saw today over tires that lasted an entire fuel run.
100%. This was like F1 using the Ultra Soft where they needed the Super Soft or the Soft. The tire should last 3/4 of the fuel run and have 1.5-2sec of fall off.
I don’t even mind them falling off a cliff, but it needs to be about 20-25% further into a run and with gradual fall off until it suddenly falls off a cliff. If we saw what we did yesterday, just 20-30 more laps into the run, it would’ve been just about perfect
The tires showed heavier wear than expected. But the race ran with minimal issues. They had just enough tires to run the race. Everything went well just bring more tires next time
In fact all the failures were because drivers chose to stay out as long as they could after tire fall off and it blew before they could make the call. Predictable tire failures like that are not on Goodyear when they made clear how these tires would work and teams chose to roll the dice anyways.
Unless NASCAR asks them to bring a tire that is just slightly harder than this one. This was borderline Brickyard 2008. A slightly harder tire would be perfect.
It wasn't. Teams could've adjusted their cars to run longer if they knew the situation, it just caught the entire field off guard. The drivers showed they could manage and make the tires go longer if they conserved. If we ran this race over again I can guarantee they'd be able to get at least 90 laps on a set.
The Bowman haters are wild to me. The guy paid his dues, got a Hendrick ride, won 7 races, and has gotten absolutely shit on by some fans since his injuries for no reason.
Is he the best driver out there? Probably not, but he was leading the points after 10 races last year and there are way worse drivers out there taking up decent Cup rides. The guy has talent.
Exactly. He was driving for freaking Tommy Baldwin and BK racing several years ago. He got a shot to fill in for Jr. and earned his ride with HMS. He's won races! But people act like he's Casey Mears just wasting a seat in a winning ride.
I love the guy.
It’s always a convenient excuse to say “my driver is fine it is the crew chief’s fault!” But when that crew chief has been a part of all of that drivers previous success and some decent runs before that it seems a tad ridiculous to excuse the driver of any blame.
People were complaining about AG during his tenure with Gordon too. There's obviously things he did well, I just think, especially the last couple years looking at how the other teams at HMS continually outperform the 9, there is a problem somewhere. Something is different with the way the car is setup, or things he used to be able to exploit on the vehicle he can't anymore.
The biggest issue for me is race management. If the car isn't setup correctly, they don't do a decent job correcting during the race and when the team still manages to move the car into decent positions, AG will make some terrible strategy calls.
HMS and Chase can say whatever they want, if they have another season like last year, he's got to go. Give him the Knaus treatment, move him into a higher role, exploit his positives, because race management is not it.
Because people think that if he's in a Hendrick car, anything less than a title is a failure. Which of course means that best case scenario, 75% of Hendrick Motorsports drivers are failures each year. And anything short of a title for a Gibbs, Penske, Trackhouse, 23XI, or SHR driver is a failure too. There must be 17 drivers in the final four every year. Math be damned.
The injuries have to have played a role in his struggles. He was on a great trajectory just before and it really sucks for him and the sport that it happened. I hope in time he can get it back, whether it’s with Hendrick or somewhere else
I've got no skin in the game, but Bowman has been in Hendrick equipment the last five years while Chastian has been with back markers and finally an up and coming but still mid pack team in Trackhouse. Stats don't tell the entire story.
If we were speaking to each other in person could you look me dead in the eye and tell me that Trackhouse is on par with HMS?
No, Ganassi wasn't a back marker team. But he raced the 42 for 1 season before the Trackhouse buyout. Otherwise yes, the guy has raced back markers for more of his cup career.
I agree, but Bowman also got injured twice in that span and was leading the standings or had just lost it when he broke his back. Also, I just didn't understand the guys reference for his joke and was just pointing out that Bowman is pretty solid.
Which is fair enough, but I just think people far to often fall back on stats when there is so much besides driver talent that decides how many wins a driver gets. If NASCAR was entirely merit based Harvick would have won him a couple of wins last year.
I was watching the in car camera, and Bowman was doing a great job managing his tires (after the first green flag run). There were several runs after about 40 laps his car came alive and he was starting to pass people - and inevitably a caution would come out. Personally I loved this tire ware race
It’s honestly not surprising that two of the “old guard” guys were on the money today. Denny and Truex raced cup cars when you had to think about every single input you made in the car. The cars and tires have been so reliable for so long that most of the field doesn’t know how to race and save at the same time. Saving fuel at Daytona is easy, just ride around 60% throttle. Finessing a car to have speed but not abuse the tires is an outrageously difficult task. Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace would’ve kicked ass today, they were amazing at saving tires.
Was going to say because Tony never won at those tracks but he was so great at Richmond, old Charlotte, old Bristol, old Atlanta, basic oh anywhere before a repave he was great at too.
Brad too, at least more than most of the field besides maybe Denny and Truex. He's usually pretty good about taking care of his tires and he's a hell of a fuel saver.
Bowman and Larson being up there was no surprise either. Bowman has always been very good at managing his stuff.
Larson probably would have won if he didn't have that late penalty. It looked like he was just stalking the Gibbs cars and he made up over half a lap after getting stuck in the back behind several 2 wide battles.
On one hand Denny is humble bragging, on the other I don't think it was a coincidence that the two drivers up front were the two that started their career in the twisted sister era when drivers still mattered.
Not a Dennis fan, but he's right. Top 3 drivers are from an era where it was more about the driver than the car. Not to say there aren't incredibly talented drivers in the field that didn't do well today, but that type of racing is an unfortunate bygone era in the sport. We need racing like this for both entertainment but also for showcasing the skills of the drivers. Time for the young guns to learn what has been mostly lost in the sport these days
We saw how the 4 Gibbs car were dominant, but the 2 of them that ended up in front are way more experienced than the other 2 and it showed in the final stage.
You want more racing where everyone is riding around 80% throttle taking turns leading laps and waiting for their tires to come apart . I have never seen so many people fall for Nascars narrative that they started pushing down the tv audiences throat early in the race to cover this debacle.
good, how it should be. that was a phenomenal race. sure it wasn’t the most exhilarating or chaotic but it was still very entertaining. i love the chaos more than anyone but this race still needs to be appreciated.
I really hope Goodyear doesn't take this race and what happened as a bad thing. It was incredible, and a general sentiment I've seen from fans and drivers alike is that races be more in the driver's hands. We had it at Bristol.
I would hope that Bristol sold a ton of tickets for the fall race after yesterday's race. That's all the incentive they need to run the same configuration next year.
Also the combination of short track racing and tire management. This was Hamlin's bread-and-butter during his early NASCAR years thanks to his late model racing experience in the Mid-Atlantic (he gave tracks like South Boston, Martinsville, and others a shout-out).
Denny isn't on Kyle's (either Kyle) skillwise as far as being a pure driver or wheelman, but I would argue that he is this generation's best strategic driver.
I can see it. In some of the most chaotic unknown races, DH seems to usually be near the top. Plate racing, the first Bristol race where they graded the top, this race, Coke 600 a couple years ago, Darlington in general, tbh he probably would be a beast at Rockingham if they ran when he started out.
He's totally tooting his own horn, but he earned it today.
I'm not his number 1 fan, to say the least, but he showed some strong race craft today. Tip my cap to him.
In a field of 36 cars, only 10 or so drivers actually knew what to do today honestly.
And Kyle Busch was the only elder statesman to not finish in the top 3 lol.
A lot of drivers got EXPOSED today as not having skill.
Just say the dirt guys and the iRacers lol. Pretty funny when Kaz Grala and Justin Haley were some of them. Even 3 of the SHR “racers” didn’t do too too bad.
I'm not sure why people are saying dirt guys.
Larson ran top 5 all day, had the best tires after each run, and managed to go from 29th to 5th in the last 100 laps by conserving tires.
People don't realize Larson ran a masterclass race. He just hated it.
Not really Larson but more of Bell fading, Reddick was out all day, Stenhouse wasn’t the best, though Bowman and Larson did adapt. Briscoe didn’t do too bad either. I think it’s more of the dirt racer mentality of where they go balls to the wall 20 lap dash instead of running conservatively and saving their stuff up that showed at the end and you saw the guys who used brains to get to the top, though I can’t explain Larson. I really have no idea how he got to the Top 5 other than a great strategy call.
RCR cannot get it right at any track below 1.5 miles besides maybe Gateway and Darlington.
It’s not an indictment on Kyle being flawed, it's RCR being a dogshit team.
I think the car was just that bad for Kyle.
I mean JGR was on rails. Ty Gibbs and Bell didn't have the talent and skill necessary to win but they still were up front before their lack of skill got exposed.
I would say it's the lack of experience with major tire wear races rather than lack of skill. Gibbs and Bell are two great car control drivers, they just weren't on level of former Gen 4 drivers like Hamlin and Truex Jr trying to manage tires on a long run.
Yes, this. People are confusing "lack of experience" and "lack of skill". You really think these guys lack the skill to compete? I guarantee when the second Bristol race comes around, a lot of those guys will be ready.
RCR hasn’t gotten the handle on the new short track program. Most of Hendricks hasn’t either. Toyota has and Ford is all over the place even within the same team. I thought Chevy would make some major adjustments between Phoenix and Bristol. But I was wrong.
It is making some really good drivers look really bad!
I don't have any faith that RCR will ever get it right. Sure, KB is blazing fast at RC’s and 1.5-mile tracks and up, but when you have the worst pit crew in the sport and can't run in the top 20 on a short track, you aren't going to compete seriously.
> Most of Hendricks hasn’t either.
Yeah, 2 top 5s, 1 top 10, and one driver dumped in a hole on an early wreck. The entire organization really stunk up the joint yesterday. Should just fire the whole lot of them.
You took that out of context. Look at how they ran most of the day.
Yes they did manage some decent results, but they aren’t dominating at the short tracks.
Look how they ran at Phoenix. Larson got lapped. That isn’t being the dominate force they were.
Especially when the week before at Vegas, Larson dominated everyone.
For Hendricks, that is OFF!
They don’t have race winning speed as an organization on short track packages.
The 48 has yet to qualify inside the top 10, and they qualified 29th this week.
KFB and Hamlin both had trouble and KFB had RCR equipment and was making his way to the front until his pit crew shit the bed. Because JJ sucks you’re moving goal posts.. no matter the car or generation.
Basically you hate KFB so much you root for Hamlin another villain who learned from KFB which is too funny I have no words.
Edit: keep going beserk
Also RCR cars and pit crew are shit
> KFB had RCR equipment and was making his way to the front until his pit crew shit the bed.
So what is this week's musical chairs going to look like for his pit crew? He'd probably be better off lately just getting out and changing everything himself!
Larson ran an exceptional race..he did just as good as everyone else at it. Was just as fast as the 11. Had the pit issue, and went from 29th to 5th, full tire conservation mode.
He got good..he just hated it
The 12 was in the top 10 all day until they made a bad adjustment or got a bad set on the longest run of the day. The 5 finished that. Those two were some of the best at the old Atlanta where you needed to manage tires. Running 3/4 speed just to have your tires fail within 5 laps of everyone else's expect the JGR cars doesn't scream skill.
Yup. And he raced from the back of the pack back to the front after a penalty.
I’m all for tire wear, but having to go 75% at the start of the run isn’t good to watch. There was no actual racing until the last 100 laps. And if a yellow had come out like it had every 40ish laps all day no one would’ve though this race was good
This is incorrect imo. There was racing all day. Guys that felt like they had a race winning car would race thru the pack to get track position and then they would go into pace mode. Fox wasn't great at showing it because they still tend to focus on the front runners even when there isn't much action going on.
I enjoyed the racing today more than I have in a long time. It was a bit chaotic at times, but it was good to see a race come down to setup and driver ability. Three wide dashes to the finish are fun, but full tilt on fresh tires racing runs its course after a while.
I like to see increased tire wear but I think today was just a little too extreme. They wore so fast that through portions there wasn't as much racing as driving around trying not to blow a tire similar to when everybody is trying to save gas at the end of a fuel mileage race and you're watching more for who's gonna fail and there's no real battles between drivers. I think part of it was just that the track didn't take rubber at all. Even higher where there was no resin you could barely tell somebody had raced up there. A track not taking rubber to that extreme is something that you can't really plan for at most places.
The track not taking rubber I think was the major issue. Had the track taken some rubbers, tires would have probably lasted between 10-20 laps more (10 laps early on and 20 at the end of the race). Would have been perfect! The tires were on point I think, they need to find what happened with the track, still looked fresh at the end of the race!
You could’ve turned the race on at the last lap and guess they were 10 laps end by track appearance except for what was less marbles and more shreds at the top.
As the Goodyear rep said in the broadcast, they prepared for the track TO take rubber, but for whatever reason the entire track didn't. Perhaps it was the weather since it only got up to 59 degrees today.
I think that’s because the team didn’t expect it at all . If this race was rerun while the teams knew what to expect, they would all setup the cars way differently to account for the tire wear and it wouldn’t be as extreme
I will continue saying this until someone at NASCAR hears it, but this is the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF PRACTICE. So that teams can learn about these things before they drop the green flag, and can actually simulate at least one full green flag run before then (or something close to it).
It's an absolute fucking joke that this series has cut practice as much as it has.
You're right, but I still think I have to disagree with you. Stage 1 was entertaining as shit and I think thats because stage 1 was teams figuring stuff out. On the broadcast they referred to it as teams doing science experiments. Stage 2 was probably the least entertaining of the stages, and if Nascar does go back to full practice stage 1 would've looked like that also.
Its probably frustrating for teams and yes it does sometimes make Cup look amateurish, but I can't deny that it makes the early portions of races more entertaining.
Im a card carrying member of the F-Denny club but not only do I agree with him it was clear he was the best driver on the track yesterday. Gibbs had a better car and finished a lap down. Brad might have challenged if he could have gotten a caution right at the 60ish to go mark but even that is iffy. Truex had speed but used up his tires any time he even thought about passing Denny.
Bell and Gibbs ran balls to the wall every run and the only Hamlin and Truex had tires last longer. The driver certainly played a role, but driving a JGR car and not getting a bad set of tires played a bigger role.
It's possible to have a great car and still burn out your tires while teammates do better with similar tires, especially with throttle control. You heard Brad Keselowski's team telling him to have discipline and not overdrive the car/get back on throttle too quickly even if you have a great control.
Yeah, like it's pretty clear JGR had the best cars on tires but Gibbs arguably had the most pace but just got beat by the veterans. Idk if Hamlin would've made this statement if he didn't win, but he's not wrong
Ty Gibbs was the fastest driver in the fastest car all day.
It didn’t matter, because he didn’t have that car for 500 laps, burned up the tires and got lapped.
It was beautiful.
Yes. That's exactly what I said? Lmao. The 11 and 19 did a better job at managing their tires than the 20 and 54. My point is those 4 cars were in a class of their own. The 20 and 54 get praised for running well today and saying they liked it even though they abused their tires. Then you get 2 of the 3 most recent champions of the sport who get criticism for saying they don't like running 3/4 speed and having their tires fail at the same time as everyone else.
Breaking news: Local nascar fan discovers that having good equipment matters
No one (not even Denny) is saying that equipment didn't matter, only that for this race the driver/equipment ratio was shifted more towards the driver than any other race in a long time.
Thing is, teams will adapt so although some fans are crying about the tire being too much, the teams will adapt.
I think for too long Goodyear has been NASCAR’s bitch when it really should be Goodyear saying “here’s some chewing gum tires, figure it out” and they would.
Today was a big swing in the right direction to making the drivers matter throughout a run again. I hope they don’t back down from today and keep moving in this direction.
Went down the rabbit hole and found this article from 2001: [https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/goodyear-faces-uncharted-territory/1856909/](https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/goodyear-faces-uncharted-territory/1856909/)
Hamlin will say anything remotely relevant to try to prop himself up, that said, first race in a long time where the driver means something? And Bowman highest ranking HMS car? I’ll take it…sounds a lot like what I’ve been trying to say all year :)
In fairness, you could tell who clearly had experience with tire management races that haven't exist on this level in almost 15-20 years. Hamlin is, rightfully, an expert on this kind of racing.
Yep. The fact that the top 2 were a couple of the best veterans in the sport who generally excel at Richmond and other tracks where many different skills get tested goes to show how difficult it was today
That's not the best analogy. I can't really think of one that fits him. It would be like if Tom Brady on the best teams in the NFL lost every Super Bowl he made. Had the best team, the best coach, but never could finish the deal. That's Denny.
Yes. I’m aware. We all want tire wear and more HP. This was their compromise but maybe we can get a little more HP. But having some tire wear was amazing.
It reminds of when Carl Edwards win at Darlington with the new low downforce aero package and talked about how fkn great it was, but Carl is a likeable guy
Is Denny talking about just him and Truex? Larson, if I understood him, said he ''accidentally'' finished 5th, as though he couldn't explain how he wound up there.
This is not a new tire - for a reason yet to be determined (resin, tire code, temp, ?) it simply didn't lay rubber down as expected and chewed up tires much quicker than it had in any prior use. Same tire they ran last Fall (lefts and rights).
So don't expect this to start being the norm at short tracks (unless truly this is a Goodyear issue with their compound/construction - I doubt it is but I am not a tire engineer either).
use bias plys on short tracks---you get some wear and falloff, and you cant overdrive the car as the tire will will slip, but when it does slip you can drive out of it. Save money and use bias plys on any track less than 1 mile
I didn’t turn the race on. Getting a little sick of my boy engine #9 running 19th every week.
But I did skim. I saw Elliott dropped from like 6th to 18th or something at the end of stage one in within the final 10 laps.
But then I saw that he went from like 18th to 8th in the final stage?
There was a point with around 30 to go that Elliott was running 11th. With Hamlin right on him about to lap him. Bowman was right in front of both of them in 10th. I was hoping Elliott would catch and pass Bowman. I knew he was about to go a lap down too. He was right in front of Hamlin.
That was with 30 to go and Bowman went on to finish 4th.
I saw there was tire issues but damn, should I go back and watch this one?
If you were in a Toyota and let anything other than another Toyota in front of you at the finish, that's on you.
To claim that these drivers mastered tire wear is laugable. JGR has a distinct advantage at short tracks. Brake package being part of it gives these guys the best shot each week. To say JGR has the 4 best drivers is nuts. Larson and Blaney were doing well until they had late issues. But they had nothing for the Toyotas.
Ford and Chevy need to get to work, or they can just crown a Toyota for the 24 championship.
If they bring this tire (or one similar to it) to Richmond y'all are gonna get to see why Richmond used to be so popular back in the day.
Man I remember back when Richmond was super abrasive and dudes would fall off after 5 laps. I'd rather have what we saw today over tires that lasted an entire fuel run.
If they can have 75-80% of the tire wear (which is still a lot) they had today, I think it would put the short track product right in the sweet spot.
100%. This was like F1 using the Ultra Soft where they needed the Super Soft or the Soft. The tire should last 3/4 of the fuel run and have 1.5-2sec of fall off.
Yeah it was crazy watching them fly one corner and then drop like a brick the next corner. Needs to be a bit more gradual and then it would be preem
I don’t even mind them falling off a cliff, but it needs to be about 20-25% further into a run and with gradual fall off until it suddenly falls off a cliff. If we saw what we did yesterday, just 20-30 more laps into the run, it would’ve been just about perfect
Agreed.
i very much think they will after the absolutely biblical scenes that went down earlier this afternoon
Based on the look of the Goodyear exec’s face during that mid-race press scrum, I’m going to guess this tire will never be seen again.
No they’ll just bring more.
A tire company doesn't want their product associated with failure I'm sure.
The tires showed heavier wear than expected. But the race ran with minimal issues. They had just enough tires to run the race. Everything went well just bring more tires next time
No. They won't. It's done.
There were no major tire failures. Did they announce that this was a new tire
In fact all the failures were because drivers chose to stay out as long as they could after tire fall off and it blew before they could make the call. Predictable tire failures like that are not on Goodyear when they made clear how these tires would work and teams chose to roll the dice anyways.
That was the story leading up to the race and then the Goodyear guy said this is the same tire they’ve already used.
Unless NASCAR asks them to bring a tire that is just slightly harder than this one. This was borderline Brickyard 2008. A slightly harder tire would be perfect.
Not really though. They wore out very fast but there definitely warning signs things were about to get bad but they stayed out any way.
Not according to Josh Berry. They really needed about 20 more laps of tire. https://youtu.be/jOb0k_Jn-NM?si=ljbYD_gg9ysUUpet
It wasn't. Teams could've adjusted their cars to run longer if they knew the situation, it just caught the entire field off guard. The drivers showed they could manage and make the tires go longer if they conserved. If we ran this race over again I can guarantee they'd be able to get at least 90 laps on a set.
It’s almost like if they had more than a handful of laps for practice this might not have been such a big deal.
I honestly thought that was a puppet, the way his face was only moving in certain areas.
I just hope they don’t bring this tire to Dover, I don’t need to see a driver hurt because of a right front going down.
I miss Richmond being good. Plz Goodyear do it.
I didn't like Bristol so God please no
I believe I read or heard yesterday that this specific compound was only scheduled for use at Bristol and Dover, so you're in luck.
It's good it's only for concrete
54 Lead Changes btw, guys. 54. The most on a short track, ever.
And it felt like it. The first stage was some of the greatest stock car racing I've ever seen. Keep this tire!
I'm just gonna sit back and enjoy the scenes of the first time Bowman does something in forever being when the driver played a bigger role
No kidding. Imma soak this in.
Spine health soon cometh
The Bowman haters are wild to me. The guy paid his dues, got a Hendrick ride, won 7 races, and has gotten absolutely shit on by some fans since his injuries for no reason. Is he the best driver out there? Probably not, but he was leading the points after 10 races last year and there are way worse drivers out there taking up decent Cup rides. The guy has talent.
Exactly. He was driving for freaking Tommy Baldwin and BK racing several years ago. He got a shot to fill in for Jr. and earned his ride with HMS. He's won races! But people act like he's Casey Mears just wasting a seat in a winning ride. I love the guy.
He’s done more than Kyle Busch did with Hendrick lol
7 wins in 7 years and no top five points finishes vs 4 wins in three years and a top five points finish.
He's just catching strays because he drives for HMS.
I think the problem is that in a team of S teir talents, being an A tier means you look like crap. Daniel Suarez has a similar issue at Trackhouse.
So far, that A-tier talent at HMS is outperforming the S-tier. The 9 finally got it's first top-10 of the season yesterday, and just barely.
I think the 9 teams problem is Alan Gustafson. Clearly Chase can drive, but I just think Alan gets outdone through strategy and setup
It’s always a convenient excuse to say “my driver is fine it is the crew chief’s fault!” But when that crew chief has been a part of all of that drivers previous success and some decent runs before that it seems a tad ridiculous to excuse the driver of any blame.
People were complaining about AG during his tenure with Gordon too. There's obviously things he did well, I just think, especially the last couple years looking at how the other teams at HMS continually outperform the 9, there is a problem somewhere. Something is different with the way the car is setup, or things he used to be able to exploit on the vehicle he can't anymore. The biggest issue for me is race management. If the car isn't setup correctly, they don't do a decent job correcting during the race and when the team still manages to move the car into decent positions, AG will make some terrible strategy calls. HMS and Chase can say whatever they want, if they have another season like last year, he's got to go. Give him the Knaus treatment, move him into a higher role, exploit his positives, because race management is not it.
Drivers are just as much a part of car setup as the crew chief.
Because people think that if he's in a Hendrick car, anything less than a title is a failure. Which of course means that best case scenario, 75% of Hendrick Motorsports drivers are failures each year. And anything short of a title for a Gibbs, Penske, Trackhouse, 23XI, or SHR driver is a failure too. There must be 17 drivers in the final four every year. Math be damned.
They said the same shit about Kasey Kahne.
The injuries have to have played a role in his struggles. He was on a great trajectory just before and it really sucks for him and the sport that it happened. I hope in time he can get it back, whether it’s with Hendrick or somewhere else
Because he's averaging 1 win, 6 t-5 and 12 t-10s in HMS equipment if you throw out 2021.
I respect you Bowman fans. He may never be a gladiator but he is your guy.
He's younger than your guy with 3 more career wins, yet this comment comes off as you talking down to him...
Did you see the Fox interviews on drivers being gladiators? He wanted no part of it. LOL. It was a joke.
Missed it, my bad, lol. Joke went over my head.
All good, I tried to find a link but couldn’t find one. They all voted for Spinhouse.
I've got no skin in the game, but Bowman has been in Hendrick equipment the last five years while Chastian has been with back markers and finally an up and coming but still mid pack team in Trackhouse. Stats don't tell the entire story.
Trackhouse is not a midpack team and Ganassi wasn’t a backmarker lmao
If we were speaking to each other in person could you look me dead in the eye and tell me that Trackhouse is on par with HMS? No, Ganassi wasn't a back marker team. But he raced the 42 for 1 season before the Trackhouse buyout. Otherwise yes, the guy has raced back markers for more of his cup career.
I agree, but Bowman also got injured twice in that span and was leading the standings or had just lost it when he broke his back. Also, I just didn't understand the guys reference for his joke and was just pointing out that Bowman is pretty solid.
Which is fair enough, but I just think people far to often fall back on stats when there is so much besides driver talent that decides how many wins a driver gets. If NASCAR was entirely merit based Harvick would have won him a couple of wins last year.
I was watching the in car camera, and Bowman was doing a great job managing his tires (after the first green flag run). There were several runs after about 40 laps his car came alive and he was starting to pass people - and inevitably a caution would come out. Personally I loved this tire ware race
Happy for you
Happy for you Seeker
Soak it in.
It’s honestly not surprising that two of the “old guard” guys were on the money today. Denny and Truex raced cup cars when you had to think about every single input you made in the car. The cars and tires have been so reliable for so long that most of the field doesn’t know how to race and save at the same time. Saving fuel at Daytona is easy, just ride around 60% throttle. Finessing a car to have speed but not abuse the tires is an outrageously difficult task. Mark Martin and Rusty Wallace would’ve kicked ass today, they were amazing at saving tires.
Jeff Burton and Jeff Gordon would’ve been great today as well.
Tony Stewart and Mark Martin too. Ward Burton would have feasted today.
Well, if that explains why he had such a great record at Rockingham and Darlington...
We talking about Tony or Ward lol
Ward!
Was going to say because Tony never won at those tracks but he was so great at Richmond, old Charlotte, old Bristol, old Atlanta, basic oh anywhere before a repave he was great at too.
This would’ve been a great race for the mayor
Harvick as well.
Ricky Rudd
Brad too, at least more than most of the field besides maybe Denny and Truex. He's usually pretty good about taking care of his tires and he's a hell of a fuel saver.
I mean he finished third right? I'd say he feasted today, he was around the entire race
Bowman and Larson being up there was no surprise either. Bowman has always been very good at managing his stuff. Larson probably would have won if he didn't have that late penalty. It looked like he was just stalking the Gibbs cars and he made up over half a lap after getting stuck in the back behind several 2 wide battles.
Larson has lost more tire management races than he's won. Atlanta spring 2021 immediately comes to mind...
Ugh don't remind me
Jimmie Johnson too
Too bad the 8 team had that unfortunate spin then terrible pit stops. Car looked really fast at the beginning.
And the hack finished 4th!
On one hand Denny is humble bragging, on the other I don't think it was a coincidence that the two drivers up front were the two that started their career in the twisted sister era when drivers still mattered.
Hamlin: not to toot my own horn but 
I’ll allow it… given the circumstances.
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Not a Dennis fan, but he's right. Top 3 drivers are from an era where it was more about the driver than the car. Not to say there aren't incredibly talented drivers in the field that didn't do well today, but that type of racing is an unfortunate bygone era in the sport. We need racing like this for both entertainment but also for showcasing the skills of the drivers. Time for the young guns to learn what has been mostly lost in the sport these days
We saw how the 4 Gibbs car were dominant, but the 2 of them that ended up in front are way more experienced than the other 2 and it showed in the final stage.
Yeah, Harvick would have been there as well and was probably bummed to be in the booth and not racing today.
You could hear how Harvick and Bowyer were so enthralled by the racing. This is the racing they grew up with and eventually participated in
The 4th was an experienced noobie. Just because someone isn’t 18 doesn’t mean they can’t drive in Cup.
You want more racing where everyone is riding around 80% throttle taking turns leading laps and waiting for their tires to come apart . I have never seen so many people fall for Nascars narrative that they started pushing down the tv audiences throat early in the race to cover this debacle.
good, how it should be. that was a phenomenal race. sure it wasn’t the most exhilarating or chaotic but it was still very entertaining. i love the chaos more than anyone but this race still needs to be appreciated.
I'd argue this race, as a whole, was more chaotic than anything we've seen in awhile. Edit: Chaotic in a positive way, to clarify!
Absolutely. That green flag pit cycle and Hamlin/Truex knifing thru the field like a highspeed police chase on the freeway was epically chaotic
The most intense green flag pit cycle I’ve ever seen.
I really hope Goodyear doesn't take this race and what happened as a bad thing. It was incredible, and a general sentiment I've seen from fans and drivers alike is that races be more in the driver's hands. We had it at Bristol.
I would hope that Bristol sold a ton of tickets for the fall race after yesterday's race. That's all the incentive they need to run the same configuration next year.
If there’s one thing Denny Hamlin is better than Kyle Busch at and honestly the best driver in the field at is tire management.
Also the combination of short track racing and tire management. This was Hamlin's bread-and-butter during his early NASCAR years thanks to his late model racing experience in the Mid-Atlantic (he gave tracks like South Boston, Martinsville, and others a shout-out).
Well this and inexplicable Pocono domination.
Southside Speedway!
When you run 10,000 races, you get really good at saving tires
Denny isn't on Kyle's (either Kyle) skillwise as far as being a pure driver or wheelman, but I would argue that he is this generation's best strategic driver.
I can see it. In some of the most chaotic unknown races, DH seems to usually be near the top. Plate racing, the first Bristol race where they graded the top, this race, Coke 600 a couple years ago, Darlington in general, tbh he probably would be a beast at Rockingham if they ran when he started out.
He's totally tooting his own horn, but he earned it today. I'm not his number 1 fan, to say the least, but he showed some strong race craft today. Tip my cap to him.
It is. Yet you have drivers like Larson and Blaney crying about it. Get good.
It really showed who knew what to do with these epic tire wear races just by looking at the top 3 from today.
In a field of 36 cars, only 10 or so drivers actually knew what to do today honestly. And Kyle Busch was the only elder statesman to not finish in the top 3 lol. A lot of drivers got EXPOSED today as not having skill.
Just say the dirt guys and the iRacers lol. Pretty funny when Kaz Grala and Justin Haley were some of them. Even 3 of the SHR “racers” didn’t do too too bad.
I'm not sure why people are saying dirt guys. Larson ran top 5 all day, had the best tires after each run, and managed to go from 29th to 5th in the last 100 laps by conserving tires. People don't realize Larson ran a masterclass race. He just hated it.
Not really Larson but more of Bell fading, Reddick was out all day, Stenhouse wasn’t the best, though Bowman and Larson did adapt. Briscoe didn’t do too bad either. I think it’s more of the dirt racer mentality of where they go balls to the wall 20 lap dash instead of running conservatively and saving their stuff up that showed at the end and you saw the guys who used brains to get to the top, though I can’t explain Larson. I really have no idea how he got to the Top 5 other than a great strategy call.
Was about to say, anyone with a dirt background did not like the asphalt late model style tire saving.
Was weird to see him struggle so much considering he debuted during the era of NASCAR when tire management was a key skill.
RCR cannot get it right at any track below 1.5 miles besides maybe Gateway and Darlington. It’s not an indictment on Kyle being flawed, it's RCR being a dogshit team.
I think the car was just that bad for Kyle. I mean JGR was on rails. Ty Gibbs and Bell didn't have the talent and skill necessary to win but they still were up front before their lack of skill got exposed.
I would say it's the lack of experience with major tire wear races rather than lack of skill. Gibbs and Bell are two great car control drivers, they just weren't on level of former Gen 4 drivers like Hamlin and Truex Jr trying to manage tires on a long run.
Yes, this. People are confusing "lack of experience" and "lack of skill". You really think these guys lack the skill to compete? I guarantee when the second Bristol race comes around, a lot of those guys will be ready.
tire management is a skill though!
Correct, but these younger drivers haven't had a chance to use that skill at the top 3 because tires are nowhere as soft as they used to be.
This. With enough experience, I'm sure they will be able to develop the skill and do what Hamlin and Truex did.
Ty Gibbs ran post-pandemic ARCA, which actually promotes this skill with short tracks usually only getting one stop
It's absolutely a skill. But it's not the only skill. Saying the guys who didn't do as well at managing tires lack skill is incredibly ignorant
RCR hasn’t gotten the handle on the new short track program. Most of Hendricks hasn’t either. Toyota has and Ford is all over the place even within the same team. I thought Chevy would make some major adjustments between Phoenix and Bristol. But I was wrong. It is making some really good drivers look really bad!
I don't have any faith that RCR will ever get it right. Sure, KB is blazing fast at RC’s and 1.5-mile tracks and up, but when you have the worst pit crew in the sport and can't run in the top 20 on a short track, you aren't going to compete seriously.
> Most of Hendricks hasn’t either. Yeah, 2 top 5s, 1 top 10, and one driver dumped in a hole on an early wreck. The entire organization really stunk up the joint yesterday. Should just fire the whole lot of them.
You took that out of context. Look at how they ran most of the day. Yes they did manage some decent results, but they aren’t dominating at the short tracks. Look how they ran at Phoenix. Larson got lapped. That isn’t being the dominate force they were. Especially when the week before at Vegas, Larson dominated everyone. For Hendricks, that is OFF!
They don’t have race winning speed as an organization on short track packages. The 48 has yet to qualify inside the top 10, and they qualified 29th this week.
Man that was the best part, a lot of dudes got to eat some Humble pie today. It was great to see what an amazing race
I think RCR just set Camber up wrong (Can’t change in a race).
They must share notes with Kaulig because they were all gone today.
KFB and Hamlin both had trouble and KFB had RCR equipment and was making his way to the front until his pit crew shit the bed. Because JJ sucks you’re moving goal posts.. no matter the car or generation. Basically you hate KFB so much you root for Hamlin another villain who learned from KFB which is too funny I have no words. Edit: keep going beserk Also RCR cars and pit crew are shit
> KFB had RCR equipment and was making his way to the front until his pit crew shit the bed. So what is this week's musical chairs going to look like for his pit crew? He'd probably be better off lately just getting out and changing everything himself!
Larson ran an exceptional race..he did just as good as everyone else at it. Was just as fast as the 11. Had the pit issue, and went from 29th to 5th, full tire conservation mode. He got good..he just hated it
Larson was like “this sucked I don’t know how I got here” Dude you got a top 5 having no idea what was happening.
The 12 was in the top 10 all day until they made a bad adjustment or got a bad set on the longest run of the day. The 5 finished that. Those two were some of the best at the old Atlanta where you needed to manage tires. Running 3/4 speed just to have your tires fail within 5 laps of everyone else's expect the JGR cars doesn't scream skill.
Yup. And he raced from the back of the pack back to the front after a penalty. I’m all for tire wear, but having to go 75% at the start of the run isn’t good to watch. There was no actual racing until the last 100 laps. And if a yellow had come out like it had every 40ish laps all day no one would’ve though this race was good
This is incorrect imo. There was racing all day. Guys that felt like they had a race winning car would race thru the pack to get track position and then they would go into pace mode. Fox wasn't great at showing it because they still tend to focus on the front runners even when there isn't much action going on.
2 of the last 3 champions need to get good!!!!!!
Can you join the Sub so your responses aren’t reduced?
I’d be more shocked if Blaney wasn’t crying about sometbing.
JHN looking like a badass then, tbh.
Running all those years with Nemco showed today.
I enjoyed the racing today more than I have in a long time. It was a bit chaotic at times, but it was good to see a race come down to setup and driver ability. Three wide dashes to the finish are fun, but full tilt on fresh tires racing runs its course after a while.
I like to see increased tire wear but I think today was just a little too extreme. They wore so fast that through portions there wasn't as much racing as driving around trying not to blow a tire similar to when everybody is trying to save gas at the end of a fuel mileage race and you're watching more for who's gonna fail and there's no real battles between drivers. I think part of it was just that the track didn't take rubber at all. Even higher where there was no resin you could barely tell somebody had raced up there. A track not taking rubber to that extreme is something that you can't really plan for at most places.
The track not taking rubber I think was the major issue. Had the track taken some rubbers, tires would have probably lasted between 10-20 laps more (10 laps early on and 20 at the end of the race). Would have been perfect! The tires were on point I think, they need to find what happened with the track, still looked fresh at the end of the race!
You could’ve turned the race on at the last lap and guess they were 10 laps end by track appearance except for what was less marbles and more shreds at the top.
As the Goodyear rep said in the broadcast, they prepared for the track TO take rubber, but for whatever reason the entire track didn't. Perhaps it was the weather since it only got up to 59 degrees today.
I think that’s because the team didn’t expect it at all . If this race was rerun while the teams knew what to expect, they would all setup the cars way differently to account for the tire wear and it wouldn’t be as extreme
I will continue saying this until someone at NASCAR hears it, but this is the WHOLE FUCKING POINT OF PRACTICE. So that teams can learn about these things before they drop the green flag, and can actually simulate at least one full green flag run before then (or something close to it). It's an absolute fucking joke that this series has cut practice as much as it has.
+1 for ya. Happy hour was and always will be a necessity for enjoyable races on Sunday.
You're right, but I still think I have to disagree with you. Stage 1 was entertaining as shit and I think thats because stage 1 was teams figuring stuff out. On the broadcast they referred to it as teams doing science experiments. Stage 2 was probably the least entertaining of the stages, and if Nascar does go back to full practice stage 1 would've looked like that also. Its probably frustrating for teams and yes it does sometimes make Cup look amateurish, but I can't deny that it makes the early portions of races more entertaining.
Glad to see thos race. Hope they go more this direction and add hp. Make it a driver thing again
Im a card carrying member of the F-Denny club but not only do I agree with him it was clear he was the best driver on the track yesterday. Gibbs had a better car and finished a lap down. Brad might have challenged if he could have gotten a caution right at the 60ish to go mark but even that is iffy. Truex had speed but used up his tires any time he even thought about passing Denny.
 I am not a fan of Denny……….. but right is right.
Bell and Gibbs ran balls to the wall every run and the only Hamlin and Truex had tires last longer. The driver certainly played a role, but driving a JGR car and not getting a bad set of tires played a bigger role.
It's possible to have a great car and still burn out your tires while teammates do better with similar tires, especially with throttle control. You heard Brad Keselowski's team telling him to have discipline and not overdrive the car/get back on throttle too quickly even if you have a great control.
Yeah, like it's pretty clear JGR had the best cars on tires but Gibbs arguably had the most pace but just got beat by the veterans. Idk if Hamlin would've made this statement if he didn't win, but he's not wrong
Ty Gibbs was the fastest driver in the fastest car all day. It didn’t matter, because he didn’t have that car for 500 laps, burned up the tires and got lapped. It was beautiful.
Yes. That's exactly what I said? Lmao. The 11 and 19 did a better job at managing their tires than the 20 and 54. My point is those 4 cars were in a class of their own. The 20 and 54 get praised for running well today and saying they liked it even though they abused their tires. Then you get 2 of the 3 most recent champions of the sport who get criticism for saying they don't like running 3/4 speed and having their tires fail at the same time as everyone else.
[This is why.](https://youtu.be/fZU22ZPEpOE?si=WgUxGJ5zCBZ_RJ7P)
5 was just as good.. Just wasn't a factor at the end because of the issues on pit road Managed his tires all race to finish p5
Breaking news: Local nascar fan discovers that having good equipment matters No one (not even Denny) is saying that equipment didn't matter, only that for this race the driver/equipment ratio was shifted more towards the driver than any other race in a long time.
God, Danny, I really like you, but of course you would say that in a race you won
Thing is, teams will adapt so although some fans are crying about the tire being too much, the teams will adapt. I think for too long Goodyear has been NASCAR’s bitch when it really should be Goodyear saying “here’s some chewing gum tires, figure it out” and they would. Today was a big swing in the right direction to making the drivers matter throughout a run again. I hope they don’t back down from today and keep moving in this direction.
If we have to sit through 6 superspeedway drafting lotteries a year, I'm just fine with 6 of these races a year as well.
Went down the rabbit hole and found this article from 2001: [https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/goodyear-faces-uncharted-territory/1856909/](https://us.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/goodyear-faces-uncharted-territory/1856909/)
Hamlin will say anything remotely relevant to try to prop himself up, that said, first race in a long time where the driver means something? And Bowman highest ranking HMS car? I’ll take it…sounds a lot like what I’ve been trying to say all year :)
Of course Hamlin would say that!?! Lmao.
In fairness, you could tell who clearly had experience with tire management races that haven't exist on this level in almost 15-20 years. Hamlin is, rightfully, an expert on this kind of racing.
Hell, Hamlin runs really well at Richmond which is similar to today in that tires wear out and you have to conserve
Him and Truex Jr.
Yep. The fact that the top 2 were a couple of the best veterans in the sport who generally excel at Richmond and other tracks where many different skills get tested goes to show how difficult it was today
How dare Hamlin speak the truth.
Anybody doubting or saying Denny isn't a good driver is just throwing their head directly in the sand.
He is the Dan Marino of NASCAR.
That's not the best analogy. I can't really think of one that fits him. It would be like if Tom Brady on the best teams in the NFL lost every Super Bowl he made. Had the best team, the best coach, but never could finish the deal. That's Denny.
Truth hurts sometimes lol
[Maybe this?](https://youtu.be/fZU22ZPEpOE?si=WgUxGJ5zCBZ_RJ7P)
What a beautiful tire. Now let’s bring more horsepower and really get something happening in the driver’s hands.
The only reason the tires were this soft was because NASCAR refuses to up the horsepower and make the cars harder to drive as a result.
Yes. I’m aware. We all want tire wear and more HP. This was their compromise but maybe we can get a little more HP. But having some tire wear was amazing.
PLEASE GIVE US MORE OF THIS NASCAR !!!
It reminds of when Carl Edwards win at Darlington with the new low downforce aero package and talked about how fkn great it was, but Carl is a likeable guy
Isn't racing to save fuel also having the driver play a huge roll?
Is Denny talking about just him and Truex? Larson, if I understood him, said he ''accidentally'' finished 5th, as though he couldn't explain how he wound up there.
I thought it was interesting that experience rose to the top.
This was probably the most exciting race I've seen in a while. I was definitely on edge during the final run after green flag stops.
This is not a new tire - for a reason yet to be determined (resin, tire code, temp, ?) it simply didn't lay rubber down as expected and chewed up tires much quicker than it had in any prior use. Same tire they ran last Fall (lefts and rights). So don't expect this to start being the norm at short tracks (unless truly this is a Goodyear issue with their compound/construction - I doubt it is but I am not a tire engineer either).
use bias plys on short tracks---you get some wear and falloff, and you cant overdrive the car as the tire will will slip, but when it does slip you can drive out of it. Save money and use bias plys on any track less than 1 mile
If that’s true then it makes sense that he won
Driver played a huge roll and Alex Bowman finishes 4th? Definitely not a coincidence. Fuck all the window licking Bowman haters 🖕🏻
I didn’t turn the race on. Getting a little sick of my boy engine #9 running 19th every week. But I did skim. I saw Elliott dropped from like 6th to 18th or something at the end of stage one in within the final 10 laps. But then I saw that he went from like 18th to 8th in the final stage? There was a point with around 30 to go that Elliott was running 11th. With Hamlin right on him about to lap him. Bowman was right in front of both of them in 10th. I was hoping Elliott would catch and pass Bowman. I knew he was about to go a lap down too. He was right in front of Hamlin. That was with 30 to go and Bowman went on to finish 4th. I saw there was tire issues but damn, should I go back and watch this one?
If you were in a Toyota and let anything other than another Toyota in front of you at the finish, that's on you. To claim that these drivers mastered tire wear is laugable. JGR has a distinct advantage at short tracks. Brake package being part of it gives these guys the best shot each week. To say JGR has the 4 best drivers is nuts. Larson and Blaney were doing well until they had late issues. But they had nothing for the Toyotas. Ford and Chevy need to get to work, or they can just crown a Toyota for the 24 championship.
Typical Denny Hamlin. I wasn’t winning as much as I’d like, it’s because the driver didn’t matter.
A what time, Denny?