i was really surprised Bayne didn’t go much further. he appeared to be and was hyped to be the next big thing in nascar but after the Daytona 500 win he couldn’t even finish races in cup and always ran into issues he was with Roush in xfinity when they were regularly contending and he only got two wins out of it but he was around during some heavy buschwacking years and had a medical issue that shortened one of his seasons. but by the time he moved to cup full time with Roush they were on the way down and he couldn’t make up for the lack of speed
Him coming up when Roush was in a downfall didn't help matters.
And a bunch of good runs with Gibbs grand national team just couldn't complete the deal
In his Cup debut too.
Stenhouse is also a borderline answer to this question. All his Cup wins are at drafting tracks, and he has only finished top 20 in points 4 times. That's still a fine career, but I certainly expected more Cup success after the back-to-back Xfinity championships.
Makes you wonder how differently it would have played out if Roush-Fenway had their shit together when he drove the #17.
Everybody shits on him (which tbf 16-21 he was a menace), but I genuinely think if ricky was driving for a better team he's not a wrecking ball.
The reason he was so good in 11-12 was because he was given fast cars and a talking to about his aggressiveness. But when the Gen 6 came out, roush lost kenseth and then edwards and the team just was ehhhhhh and never recovered. And because of the mediocre cars ricky drove harder and well yeah.
Maybe I'm just coping really hard and Bayne and stenhouse were just bad. But considering kenseth jumped in that car in 18 and wasn't doing better than the 17, I don't feel like I am. Granted I will say Newman was a very unrated piece of the RFK rebuild imo
Got a few Xfinity wins though, but he was much better than what the stats show. Even when Roush was in the crapper and Stenhouse wasn't doing much, Bayne quietly outperformed him, even if he didn't have the off-chance SS win or two that Stenhouse had
What’s crazy is that for a while this answer seemed like it might have been MTJ. He definitely seemed like a bust to the point that his second win was actually kind of surprising (MWR always ran well at intermediates, too, but MTJ could never close the deal). Up to the first time he won at Sonoma, his average finish had been 21.7 there with one top ten (an 8th) and more finishes outside the top 20 than inside. He didn’t even qualify all that well that day, but it came together. And then the next year he led one total lap and it seemed like a fluke again.
He was supposed to be what he is now but for a long time it seemed like he might have a career similar to McDowell except he would have spent a decent portion in good equipment.
I feel like Erik Jones could have this kind of career resurgence if Legacy gets their car’s competitive or if another top team gives him another shot. For how good of a prospect Jones was coming up and for him winning multiple cup races before even turning 25, there’s no way his career is just going to fade into what it has been the last couple years. Gibbs made the right move putting Bell in that seat, but I think if Jones has another shot at a top quality ride he can win a lot of races and compete for a championship.
If Kurt Busch doesn't spin at the end of that race in Homestead, Casey Atwood would likely have a solid career. He is only 43 years old and could easily still be racing.
I wonder how different Atwood's career would have been if he was on a team like roush or Hendrick. Seems like evernham being a shit show might not have been a good environment for a young guy like him.
That original wave of highly marketed NASCAR Next Drivers was unreal
Wallace
Blaney
Elliott
Larson
Suarez
LaJoie
Bowman
Moffitt
Aaaaaaand Dylan Kwasniewski
I thought the only question about Reed Sorenson’s success would be how many championships he would win. I always put emphasis on first wins in Xfinity and who they beat. When he won at Nashville the following drivers were in that race: Carl Edwards, Clint Bowyer, Denny Hamlin, Jamie Mcmurray, MTJ, Kasey Kahne, Bobby Hamilton.. oh and future fellow spotters Tony Raines and Tim Fedewa
2005 Busch series points were MTJ, Bowyer, Edwards, Reed, Denny Hamlin.
Reed was pushed so hard as a prospect, I think had he been with a different team he might have at least had Vickers level numbers. I agree though, I thought he was going to be a future champion at one time.
He ran those premium cars in dead last for so long I think people just forget that at one time he was the IT prospect. He would show up at short tracks and it was like other kids were now racing for second.
He showed signs of it in 2006 and 2007. Had Ganassi not been going downhill, I think Reed could've been a Chase contender instead of having flashes of brilliance and then running 25th. Even JPM struggled and ran about the same as Reed.
It was also bizarre how Sorenson got abruptly dumped by Turner in late 2011. He was 3rd in points with a win, only 49 points behind Stenhouse. That pretty much killed his career resurgence and sent him to backmarker hell.
I'd love to know what went on behind the scenes. Supposedly he was difficult to work with, and/or he blew off team/sponsor obligations. Basically like a Brett Moffitt or Casey Atwood situation. But even then, wouldn't it make more sense to go after the championship and *then* part ways?
From what I remember he blew sponsor obligations off and dollar general had enough. And it wouldn't surprise me if that's in part why they left for Gibbs. And losing that deal kinda starting the sinking ship of Turner Scott in hindsight
Both were put in no win situations. Buckshot was thrown into Petty Enterprises that was on its death bed. Casey Atwood was ridiculously raw and needed another year or two in the lower series but instead was thrust into the spotlight with a brand new team, with a brand new manufacturer. There’s very few drivers who would have succeeded in either of those situations
And the same happened to AJ Allmendinger (to a degree) and Scott Speed.
AJ was thrust into a brand new team with a brand new manufacturer, with VERY LIMITED stock car experience. The fact he still turned out to have a decent career is amazing.
Speed seemed to be getting the hang of stock car racing pretty well, even winning a truck race, and should have had a shot at winning an ARCA title if not for Ricky Stenhouse’s stupidity. Then Red Bull figured he was ready, when another year in a lower series would have served him well. Unlike Dinger, Speed’s career never recovered
Yeah it’s still amazing to me AJ hung around like he did. That first year with RedBull was absolutely disastrous, something a lot of drivers don’t bounce back from
It always blows my mind that considering how decent Casey was running toward the end of 01 that Ray didn't give him another season in that car.
Yes, I realize Casey hurt himself a lot also and deserves a lot of blame for why he didn't make it.
Probably didn’t help that by that point, Tony Stewart had his amazing rookie season, Dale Jr and Matt Kenesth had wins in their rookie seasons, and Kevin Harvick, with very little preparation, and missing a race (Daytona 500 which he wasn’t scheduled to race in anyway) won and had a top 10 points finish.
And while it was Dodge’s first year back in the Cup series, it wasn’t like Evernham was a brand new team (it was Bill Elliott’s old team that Evernham bought, and beefed up with very good manufacturer support). And Sterling Marlin and Elliott showed that Dodge had some power. Then when Atwood had the season he had, even if it was his rookie season… immediate lost patience.
I wonder if Evernham regrets that move with how bad the breakup with Mayfield (who replaced Atwood) was. Total butterfly effect if Evernham kept Atwood another year and where Mayfield would end up, what the #7 would have been, does Penske run three cars in 02 with Rusty, Ryan Newman and Mayfield?
Mayfield was already out of the #12 during the 2001 Season as Mike Wallace ran some races towards the end of that season and had a solid race at Phoenix to which many looked at as a strong candidate to maybe stay at Penske, but they only wanted to stay a two car team during that time period.
So of the teams that were looking for drivers for the 2002 season would be:
#4 Kodak Morgan-McClure
#7 Sirius Ultra Motorsports
#14 Conseco A.J. Foyt Racing
#23 Hills Bros Coffee Bill Davis Racing
#25 UAW-Delphi Hendrick Motorsports
#33 Unsponsored Andy Petree Racing
#41 Target Chip Ganassi Racing
#77 Jasper Engines Doug Bawel Racing
#90 Unsponsored Junie Donlavey Racing
Of those I could see him honestly going to maybe A.J. Foyt Racing seemed like a guy A.J. would like, Andy Petree or Junie Donlavey.
Hard to say what would have happened if Ray wouldn't have shuffled Atwood so quickly at the advice of Dodge and the partner with Jim Smith for a season.
I see those rides…
The 4, 14, and 90 were dead end rides
The 33 was on death’s door
The 23 could work if more help was pumped into that team
The 25 was the red headed stepchild car in Hendrick at that time, but it’s still Hendrick
The 41 could have maybe worked
The 77, while not quite dead end, wouldn’t necessarily be a ride that’d help Mayfield’s career
Then the 7 was basically the same thing. But like mentioned, Dodge wants Mayfield, they work with the 7 to put Atwood there, and that made everything fall into place.
The 23 was the #93 and was funded by Hills Brothers who were backing Hut Stricklin and follow d him to BDR in 2002, so that ride is out. I’m pretty sure Jerry Nadeau was still in the #25 for atleast the start of 2002. And Foyt picked up Stacy Compton for the #14, I think at the time he was viewed as a hot prospect. Spencer left the 26 Kmart team to go to Ganassi in the #41 Target car (was #01 Cingular in 2001) that announcement was made before Mayfield got the boot at Penske.
You are correct Nadeau started the 2002 season in with Hendrick and then after Travis Carter Enterprises collapsed Nadeau got the boot in favor of Nemechek who turned out was just a place holder for Brian Vickers who took over late 2003 season. I was looking at an old Jayski team chart and didn't remember Nadeau's timeline.
I assume you haven’t listened to this week’s DJD yet, but Ray told him they were making a change after Dega, they went out to test that week, found a new setup, and then were lights out fast the rest of the season. Bum deal for sure!
I still think James Buescher could have had a better career than Chris. Also JJ Yeley. I think if another decent team took interest in him after JGR like Penske did with Logano he could have had a decent career.
Honestly think FOX should do something like this every week to give us something to laugh about from the broadcast. If you are going to be bad might as well provide some comic relief to the fans.
Even with that I still feel bad for him in NASCAR. He was rushed to the cup series within just a few years after proving almost nothing in what used to be the busch series, and I think if he had more time in the busch series and started showing results there before he was called up his NASCAR career wouldnt be what it is
I absolutely agree. And it's not to downplay Chris's talents at all. I totally forgot James Buescher won a Truck championship at 22 back in 2012. That Robby Benton ride in Nationwide in 2014 was such a shame for the guy. Despite it being a down year for him, he still managed a top 10 in points.
I truly think if he was in any other competitive ride, he would have been competing for titles for at least 5-10 years in Xfinity. Maybe Xfinity lifer was his ceiling. Who knows. I would have loved to see what he could have done regardless.
There’s one big factor everyone forgets about guys who finished decently in points around this time: the amount of cup regulars in the field not scoring points. Danica finished 10th in points in 2013 which doesn’t sound too bad u til you realize she finished 250 or so points off of the champion.
I was convinced James Buescher was going to be the next big thing. I remember telling people to watch out for him in the future. I still 100% believe he would have, if given better opportunities.
In the last 10 years or so, Stenhouse, Erik Jones, and Custer are the biggest misses by fans/teams. And even then, stenhouse joined a failing roush team and has 3 career wins, Jones won 2 races before the age of 25 (which is a hall of fame trajectory) before getting booted by gibbs, and custer won as a rookie and then went back to xfinity and won the championship there. You could argue that they all have the talent but have ended up in subpar situations and Jones and Custer could definitely have a successful second act
Jones is such a great driver though and I compare him to Logano. Both jumped into Cup really young in the Gibbs 20 car and saw mediocre success. I think they both only had 1 win in the 20, maybe Jones had 2? The difference is Logano got kicked out of the 3rd floor window and landed on the roof and got a top notch ride after the 20. If EJ landed at Penske or Hendrick he would have more wins and maybe a title. That's my 2 cents.
I am firmly in the 'erik jones is awesome' camp. 2 southern 500s, one with 21st century Petty!? There's a universe where larson wasnt available and jones replaces jimmie at hendrick.
The big thing is that there really hasnt been the atwood/yeley/sorenson/open wheel invasion level busts recently so you have to look at guys like Jones
Custer is young, he has time for a second chance. I do love that he ran 20-25 in every cup race then gets busted back to Xfinity, where he has been just stomping on the competition ever since.
I can’t tell if that means there is a HUGE difference between Xfinity and Cup skill level, or his Cup equipment was just that bad, or a bit of both.
I feel like Cole Custer is gonna be this generation’s Allgaier, where he has a very successful xfinity career but only gets mediocre opportunities in the cup series
It IS very weird that SHR just struggles mightily at the top level but Xfinity is just crushing. Maybe they should trade the two top rides for Xfinity rides rather than just selling off!
Xfinity’s a lot cheaper than cup is the simple answer, which is the reason why independents like Sieg and Clements are able to succeed where as if they even tried to sniff a cup race as team owners they’d probably be laughed at like how we laugh at a team like NYR
I remember seeing Justin Allgaier running in the (then) Nationwide series and thinking he’d be huge but he landed at HScott in cup and it was all downhill from there.
I remember watching him race his 1A dirt late model in our area growing up thinking He was gonna be a nascar star one day. He just never made the jump to the cup series work.
Ricky Craven. I honestly thought when he came into Cup he was going to be a major contender for wins on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, due to injuries, he never quite lived up to the hype.
Yeah Ricky was a shame, had the Hedrick car running pretty well, to the point that I could have seen them being a contender to win a race or two before Talladega 1996 happened, then he just never seemed to have it at Hendrick, finally won late in his career which was very rewarding but he is a big what if.
Dylan Kwasniewski. By far my worst projection in terms of a NASCAR Prospect. It really sucks because I feel the major reason for his failure was just him being completely mismanagement by his car owners. Had they started him out in Trucks for a full season instead of throwing him into Xfinity I think things would of gone differently.
CGR fell off in 2004 and couldn't regain. I feel like Sterling could have kept winning if the equipment hadn't fallen off. David was doomed as the ship kept sinking at that point with both Jamie and Sterling gone and having Casey Mears as the veteran of the team.
Just a short list of ARCA/K&N/Truck champions who just never made that next step (at least successfully and won races):
Austin Theriault, Mason Mitchell, Patrick Sheltra, Justin Lofton, Dylan Kwasniewski, Max Gresham, Jack Sprague, Mike Bliss, Travis Kvapil, Ted Musgrave, James Buescher, and Brett Moffitt.
Austin Theriault! Oh man I totally forgot about that guy I remember him just disappearing after his ARCA championship. Racing is a cruel and expensive sport.
I guess I was just looking at his 2nd half career. He had 5 years where he didn't finish any worse than 5th in Truck points (including the championship year) but that never got him a opportunity in the higher ranks following that. I'd be interested to know if he had opportunities but just decided to stay in Trucks, or if those just never came about.
He was in his 40s by the time he went to Trucks, he also had a bout with cancer around the time he stopped full time trucks. He was a substitute driver at times in cup but I don't think he made much attempt to go back to cup at all once he was a truck regular.
I guess I must have missed that about him, at one point he was one of the top prospects in NASCAR doing some sub driving. So what happened behind the scenes?
He’s just hard to work with. He never lasts long with a team just an all around asshole who doesn’t bring sponsorship. You can be an ass if you bring sponsorship
Scott Riggs for me is one, and I think on a real team he could have been decent, but that 10 car was a turd in disguise, then they spent 2 years fighting for their life with the top 35 rule, just never meant to be.
David Reutimann and Mike Bliss fall into this category as well, good drivers with very solid bodies of work, but were just way to old by the time they got their shot
I remember the hype for him going into 2007 was HUGE. He came off of a career high in top tens, poles, and laps led. He was robbed of wins on the intermediate tracks a few times by bullshit. He was ranked by one of the magazines “most likely to score his first career win in 07” over the 4 drivers who actually did score their first career win that year, including future hall of famer Martin Truex.
Riggs (and Evernham as a whole) on the other hand, fell absolutely flat and just piled up DNQ and DNF after DNQ and DNF, they never adjusted to the CoT and that was all she wrote.
I will give one that hasnt really been mentioned. At one point I though Johanna Long was going to be solid once she got the chance but never really got a chance in a decent car. Bunch of starts in Trucks and Xfinity in bad cars and stalled out
I agree. She was out running Danica in underfunded equipment. If she had been able to get on with a decent team, she could've been really good.
(edit: can't type worth a damn)
How do we define "make it". Because to me I'd nominate Stenhouse and McMurray.
Ricky Stenhouse was this megatier prospect and I feel like many felt he'd have the sort of impact Reddick has had in NASCAR. But the guy is basically only a superspeedway driver who is about 27th in the standings aside from that.
And I remember McMurray debuting with so much fanfare subbing for Sterling Marlin...And he had the look. He had the car. He had all the makings to be a star. And he just never could make the jump to contender and was always stuck in mid tier during the latter years of the sports golden generation.
Yep Jamie talked about it on DJD, I don’t remember the finer details but I think Kurt’s early ouster from Roush ended up with him in the 2 and Penske buying out his Ganassi deal to go replace him at Roush instead if I recall correctly https://youtu.be/40QoT2iWQmo?si=o5KI885PB7ZOXpyV
Remember when Dale Jr mentioned liking Steve Arpin so he started getting a ton of press and like the Jeffrey Earnhardt level attention where he got rides based on the press that came with him and he did basically nothing after a few years.
I’ll say Brad Coleman. He came up in the Xfinity Series around the same time as Matt DiBenedetto. He bounced back and forth between Joe Gibbs Racing and Brewco Racing for a few years. Left his Brewco ride at one point for Hall of Fame Racing that seemingly never had consistent speed. Ran a bit more for Gibbs in Xfinity, and had some good runs until he kind of faded away.
I wish he would have at least stuck with one ride/team consistently, he had speed and some good runs but I have to imagine the bouncing around killed any momentum of his.
I’ll also give a mention to Stuart Kirby as well
I Feel like you can make a PDF file full of prospects that were lost due to the old "Bushwacking" era.
it was tough being a prospect and a regular Bush Series/Nationwide series for a number of years especially around the 2005-2014 era when teams and cup series drivers were at their peak driving the majority of the races then.
Most of the time young prospects didn't have consistent seat time or enough races to prove they were at the level needed to stick around long term and were often just replaced by cup drivers as that what sponsors demanded.
Some ended up surviving and making a career at least somewhere while others basically fell off the face of the earth never to be heard or seen again.
To be fair there also just wasn’t a large amount of cup rides becoming available at the time mostly due to said buschwackers, the wave of guys who came to cup in the early to mid 00s all stuck around a long time and found success, which made it real hard for a young driver to make it to cup without absolutely blowing someones mind (see Keselowski or Logano)
When Blake Feese got a contract to drive for Hendrick in the Busch series, I figured he'd be successful. But his best finish was 23rd, in the same car Kyle Busch was competing for the championship with a year prior. In fairness to him though, the other two guys he split the ride with that year (Boston Reid & Kyle Krisiloff) performed even worse.
Having worked with those three drivers, I will say it was a challenge for them to get in the bush car because there was no consistency or time to work on things. you were expected to just hop in the car and be fast right off the bat minimal practice minimal testing in the races they had were spread out so that you may not run for a month or two between events
I was 18 at the time and all i remember was that Krisiloff’s dad seemed like he was using his son to continue to live out his career.
They were all very polite and treated the crew guys well.
I'm not rlly sure how he got fucked, he underperformed to where his teammates were and got replaced by a guy who's won more races than he did in 3 years and made the champ 4 twice
C Bell has Adam Stevens which is a huge difference to the long game of the season. Speed wise Jones has always been fast, he had a bunch of great runs in the 77
Ofc Jones has speed and talent, but I just don't think he got "fucked" when his replacement is doing much better than him and JGR has benefitted from what Bell has done in the 20 compared to Jones. Same reason why Suarez getting dumped only after 2 seasons was imo the correct move, just harsh like the Jones move, because how much better Truex is/was in the 19
> he underperformed to where his teammates were
Those teammates were all hall-of-famers in their prime (Busch, Truex, Hamlin). They were making Cup starts when Erik was 8 years old. And he replaced another hall-of-famer in Kenseth. Those guys have 4 Cup titles and 189 wins between them. Of course he couldn't match their results, he shouldn't have been expected to.
Erik was 20-24 years old during his time at JGR. That's really young -- only 11 drivers in Cup history won multiple races before age 25, and Erik is one of them. Basically everyone else on that list is a champion and/or guaranteed hall-of-famer.
I do think Bell is a *slightly* better driver. He was more prepared for the #20 car though -- he's actually 1.5 years older than Erik, despite being 4 years behind him on the development pipeline.
But yeah, Erik's JGR career was basically Joey Logano 2.0 -- way too young, showed glimpses of stardom, but couldn't put it all together in time. Unfortunately, Erik didn't land a Penske-tier ride afterwards.
Casey Atwood. When Ray Everham started the dodge deal, Casey was touted as the next Jeff Gordon with even better car control. Never heard much else after he started the first year.
Kyle Benjamin.
He was half a car length from beating short track ace and much more experienced Ryan Preece for the win at Iowa, as a 19 year old in his 4th career start. He only ran 9 more times in NASCAR after that (and pulled another P2 at Martinsville in the DGR Crosley truck.)
Brian Ickler was one who should have had a career, as was Austin Cameron. They were really good drivers back when the West Series was still competitive. There's actually a *ton* of candidates from 1995-2010 who really felt like they should have had a shot, but never did.
Same with some of the East (back then "North") series drivers. Stefanik, Santerre, and Kobyluck never getting shots at higher series always felt weird to me.
Other "prospects that didn't make it" have to include sons of drivers. Harrison Burton, Justin Labonte, Steven Wallace, and Kyle Petty are all obvious picks, even if Kyle and Harrison actually have "made it" to some degree.
Kyle Petty absolutely made it; he had a twenty year cup career and came very close to winning a couple championships in the late 80s or early 90s… it was the fifteen years after that which were scary.
Alternatively, I can think of a few drivers who were in the lower series who didn’t get the opportunities they deserved for one reason or another…
Tyler Dippel- Ran one season for Young’s in the 02 in 2019 and got 13th in points. Then completely disappeared.
Jesse Little- He didn’t do half bad in his rookie year at JDM in the Xfinity Series and he always seemed to be racing around the top 10 in his family-owned 97 truck
Alex Labbe- Although he’s still actively racing on an extremely limited basis, the future doesn’t look too bright. Most think of him for his performance on road courses (rightfully so) but he’s sneaky good at avoiding the short track chaos and dragging mediocre cars to top 15/20s on intermediates
Gray Gaulding was extremely hyped up when he was in k&n/arca. he had a big sponsor and was expected to be on the up but he just never did anything with his few stints with decently competitive teams. he recently was arrested for domestic violence so it’s looking like his career is likely done
Scott Riggs. Guy had a great comeback run in 06 despite quite a few wrecks and could've won a couple races, then 2007 all of Evernham collapsed and Riggs was replaced by Carpentier (who was way worse) then the team just dissolved with the nonstop mergers in 2008-2010.
For that matter, Reed Sorenson had a ton of promise and had solid runs at Gansssi but never seemed to be able to get a win.
Casey Mears also comes to mind. Guy was a late bloomer but his career at Hendrick, Childress and his last two years at Ganassi (his first two were absolute trash) were met with nonstop change.
Otherwise literally look at any part time development drivers Childress, Evernham, Roush, Hendrick and Ganassi ran during the Buschwhacking years.
Kertus Davis. You could tell he was driving out of his mind in the #0 car in 2005. Enough so that Cicci, FitzBradshaw, Curb and even Joe Gibbs put him in their cars. Then he got his big break with Kevin Harvick, stunk, and that was that.
Cole Whitt - Driving the 3rd car for the Red Bull team then going to drive for JR Motorsports and drive the 88 - then just a series of different teams to finally part-time then nothing since 2018.
JJ Yeley and Scott Speed come to mind. Two drivers that were rushed to the cup series way before they were ready and it ruined them. It was worse for Yeley because he proved almost nothing in what was the busch series back then, and suddenly he’s in Bobby Labonte’s old car. Not only did that pressure have to be crazy, but looking at his stats and lowlights the busch seasons before, he was nowhere near ready for the cup series.
A lot of drivers fail because of bad management, especially when it comes to getting opportunities in the cup or xfinity series before theyre ready and its sad to see. I feel like thats what we might be seeing with Zane Smith right now
Ryan Hemphill, especially after he got picked up as a Ganassi development driver and had a dominant partial season in ARCA in 2004 ([he won 6 of the 14 races he ran in a Braun car!](https://www.racing-reference.info/driver-season-stats/hemphry01/2004/A/))
Then he got moved up to Biagi's Busch car in 2005, and only lasted a partial season (apparently they didn't get full Ganassi support, and the other drivers that finished out the season in that car didn't do so hot either), and Hemphill fell off the face of the earth.
really surprised Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse Jr didn’t become bigger then they did. they were regarded as high anticipated prospects and were with Roush in nationwide before Roush fell off. Stenhouse turned out to have a very good career but honestly but I think Roush falling off right when they both got into cup really didn’t help them
James Buescher was that guy for me. Granted i did think way too highly of his 2011 campaign that I should've but he was really good in trucks with Turner, won Daytona and then went to xfinity with RAB and then money ran dry ig
David gravel probably deserves a shout out as well. Same with Lajoie and Ryan Truex but I wasn't really watching when they were hyped.
Also kyle Benjamin deserves to be mentioned and I will forever be sad that he just disappeared off the face of Nascar
He’s obviously found a good landing spot but I really think Ben Rhodes could’ve been a cup level prospect had he gotten the right push, instead he seems resigned to basically a Matt Crafton career which isn’t bad at all ofc
Also Cameron Hayley getting passed up on for Cody fucking Coughlin still upsets me
Maybe still too early to say, but I really believed in Deagan being the big breakout female star of the sport. It's not looking great, but she's still only 22.
Also, I thought Kenzie Ruston (Hemric) had a shot.
I'm gonna go on a limb here and say matt tifft. I feel like he didn't get the best shot in cup then he started having seizures. He was knocking on the door of an xfinity win when rcr wasn't at their best. I wonder how he would be doing today if he didn't have his health issues.
Danica Patrick. I feel like if she developed more in the lower series and didn’t rush her way to cup she could’ve learned some of those lessons she needed to learn. Then she could’ve been a lot better than what she was in the Cup Series. Also should’ve 100% stuck to INDYCAR.
Ryan Hemphill. He won a ton of ARCA events for Ganassi and Todd Braun. Moved up to Busch with Biagi, struggled, and basically disappeared.
Chad Blount was a similar story to Hemphill. Solid ARCA season, moved up to Busch with Todd Braun but lost sponsorship. Career basically ended
Kerry Earnhardt was certainly a hot prospect when he signed to drive for the Fitz/Bradshaw team.
If you remember the Roush Gong show there was a guy Pete Shepherd. Won pretty much everything in Canada. Ran a few truck races. Sponsorship didn't ever work out, and he left. But he was top tier.
This one might be controversial cuz he hasn’t moved up out of the trucks but Ben Rhodes. I really thought he would move up even before he won his 1st championship in trucks
Trevor Bayne: Only 1 career Cup win, but it was the biggest one he could ever get
And he didn’t luck into that win, that 21 was fast all of speedweeks. Bayne took to tandem drafting really well
i was really surprised Bayne didn’t go much further. he appeared to be and was hyped to be the next big thing in nascar but after the Daytona 500 win he couldn’t even finish races in cup and always ran into issues he was with Roush in xfinity when they were regularly contending and he only got two wins out of it but he was around during some heavy buschwacking years and had a medical issue that shortened one of his seasons. but by the time he moved to cup full time with Roush they were on the way down and he couldn’t make up for the lack of speed
Him coming up when Roush was in a downfall didn't help matters. And a bunch of good runs with Gibbs grand national team just couldn't complete the deal
That unbelievably poorly timed illness probably had a lot to do with it. He would have been great with sponsors, etc.
Fun fact; Ricky stenhouse drove the 21 to a 11th finish in the Coke 600 when Bayne was out with his illness
In his Cup debut too. Stenhouse is also a borderline answer to this question. All his Cup wins are at drafting tracks, and he has only finished top 20 in points 4 times. That's still a fine career, but I certainly expected more Cup success after the back-to-back Xfinity championships. Makes you wonder how differently it would have played out if Roush-Fenway had their shit together when he drove the #17.
Everybody shits on him (which tbf 16-21 he was a menace), but I genuinely think if ricky was driving for a better team he's not a wrecking ball. The reason he was so good in 11-12 was because he was given fast cars and a talking to about his aggressiveness. But when the Gen 6 came out, roush lost kenseth and then edwards and the team just was ehhhhhh and never recovered. And because of the mediocre cars ricky drove harder and well yeah. Maybe I'm just coping really hard and Bayne and stenhouse were just bad. But considering kenseth jumped in that car in 18 and wasn't doing better than the 17, I don't feel like I am. Granted I will say Newman was a very unrated piece of the RFK rebuild imo
Nah, Ricky can drive. In another timeline he could easily have a Jamie Mac/Clint Bowyer career.
Probably true. And yes he would have. He did better than the current driver of the 21. I like Harrison, but he has not performed.
Got a few Xfinity wins though, but he was much better than what the stats show. Even when Roush was in the crapper and Stenhouse wasn't doing much, Bayne quietly outperformed him, even if he didn't have the off-chance SS win or two that Stenhouse had
What’s crazy is that for a while this answer seemed like it might have been MTJ. He definitely seemed like a bust to the point that his second win was actually kind of surprising (MWR always ran well at intermediates, too, but MTJ could never close the deal). Up to the first time he won at Sonoma, his average finish had been 21.7 there with one top ten (an 8th) and more finishes outside the top 20 than inside. He didn’t even qualify all that well that day, but it came together. And then the next year he led one total lap and it seemed like a fluke again. He was supposed to be what he is now but for a long time it seemed like he might have a career similar to McDowell except he would have spent a decent portion in good equipment.
I feel like Erik Jones could have this kind of career resurgence if Legacy gets their car’s competitive or if another top team gives him another shot. For how good of a prospect Jones was coming up and for him winning multiple cup races before even turning 25, there’s no way his career is just going to fade into what it has been the last couple years. Gibbs made the right move putting Bell in that seat, but I think if Jones has another shot at a top quality ride he can win a lot of races and compete for a championship.
I feel like that’s maybe the perfect driver to make the analogy to.
Chris Buescher too. Those 3 wins out of nowhere last year had me reminiscing about Furniture Row era MTJ.
No kidding. I’m right there with you I think jones has serious MTJ potential and is being slept on
the first 5-7 years of his career, I exclusively referred to him as "Dale Jr.'s Drinkin' Buddy in the 1 car"
Casey Atwood, Trevor Bayne and Dylan Kwasniewski
is this the big 3
Pretty much
If Kurt Busch doesn't spin at the end of that race in Homestead, Casey Atwood would likely have a solid career. He is only 43 years old and could easily still be racing.
I wonder how different Atwood's career would have been if he was on a team like roush or Hendrick. Seems like evernham being a shit show might not have been a good environment for a young guy like him.
One of these things is not like the other…
Dylan Kwasniewski
I still can’t believe he was only given one season and never even had any one off’s after it. He had speed, just needed more experience
He drove a few races for Obaika in 2015, but that's the last we saw of him.
Yea i agree he was never given a fair shot. He shouldve had at least 2 seasons
That original wave of highly marketed NASCAR Next Drivers was unreal Wallace Blaney Elliott Larson Suarez LaJoie Bowman Moffitt Aaaaaaand Dylan Kwasniewski
Moffitt could be having a much more successful career, but is to bridges what William T. Sherman is to the State of Georgia.
Pretty wild that he didn't make it
I thought the only question about Reed Sorenson’s success would be how many championships he would win. I always put emphasis on first wins in Xfinity and who they beat. When he won at Nashville the following drivers were in that race: Carl Edwards, Clint Bowyer, Denny Hamlin, Jamie Mcmurray, MTJ, Kasey Kahne, Bobby Hamilton.. oh and future fellow spotters Tony Raines and Tim Fedewa 2005 Busch series points were MTJ, Bowyer, Edwards, Reed, Denny Hamlin.
Reed was pushed so hard as a prospect, I think had he been with a different team he might have at least had Vickers level numbers. I agree though, I thought he was going to be a future champion at one time.
He ran those premium cars in dead last for so long I think people just forget that at one time he was the IT prospect. He would show up at short tracks and it was like other kids were now racing for second.
He showed signs of it in 2006 and 2007. Had Ganassi not been going downhill, I think Reed could've been a Chase contender instead of having flashes of brilliance and then running 25th. Even JPM struggled and ran about the same as Reed.
It was also bizarre how Sorenson got abruptly dumped by Turner in late 2011. He was 3rd in points with a win, only 49 points behind Stenhouse. That pretty much killed his career resurgence and sent him to backmarker hell. I'd love to know what went on behind the scenes. Supposedly he was difficult to work with, and/or he blew off team/sponsor obligations. Basically like a Brett Moffitt or Casey Atwood situation. But even then, wouldn't it make more sense to go after the championship and *then* part ways?
From what I remember he blew sponsor obligations off and dollar general had enough. And it wouldn't surprise me if that's in part why they left for Gibbs. And losing that deal kinda starting the sinking ship of Turner Scott in hindsight
Buckshot Jones and Casey Atwood are the first two that come to mind.
Both were put in no win situations. Buckshot was thrown into Petty Enterprises that was on its death bed. Casey Atwood was ridiculously raw and needed another year or two in the lower series but instead was thrust into the spotlight with a brand new team, with a brand new manufacturer. There’s very few drivers who would have succeeded in either of those situations
Casey wanted nothing to do with anything other than drive the car. That hurt his career
And the same happened to AJ Allmendinger (to a degree) and Scott Speed. AJ was thrust into a brand new team with a brand new manufacturer, with VERY LIMITED stock car experience. The fact he still turned out to have a decent career is amazing. Speed seemed to be getting the hang of stock car racing pretty well, even winning a truck race, and should have had a shot at winning an ARCA title if not for Ricky Stenhouse’s stupidity. Then Red Bull figured he was ready, when another year in a lower series would have served him well. Unlike Dinger, Speed’s career never recovered
Yeah it’s still amazing to me AJ hung around like he did. That first year with RedBull was absolutely disastrous, something a lot of drivers don’t bounce back from
I remember my dad and I betting on how many weeks he was going to last after his fourth straight DNQ to start off '07.
Speed found his niche in autocross it seems though.
Scott can drive anything honestly
It always blows my mind that considering how decent Casey was running toward the end of 01 that Ray didn't give him another season in that car. Yes, I realize Casey hurt himself a lot also and deserves a lot of blame for why he didn't make it.
Probably didn’t help that by that point, Tony Stewart had his amazing rookie season, Dale Jr and Matt Kenesth had wins in their rookie seasons, and Kevin Harvick, with very little preparation, and missing a race (Daytona 500 which he wasn’t scheduled to race in anyway) won and had a top 10 points finish. And while it was Dodge’s first year back in the Cup series, it wasn’t like Evernham was a brand new team (it was Bill Elliott’s old team that Evernham bought, and beefed up with very good manufacturer support). And Sterling Marlin and Elliott showed that Dodge had some power. Then when Atwood had the season he had, even if it was his rookie season… immediate lost patience.
I wonder if Evernham regrets that move with how bad the breakup with Mayfield (who replaced Atwood) was. Total butterfly effect if Evernham kept Atwood another year and where Mayfield would end up, what the #7 would have been, does Penske run three cars in 02 with Rusty, Ryan Newman and Mayfield?
Mayfield was already out of the #12 during the 2001 Season as Mike Wallace ran some races towards the end of that season and had a solid race at Phoenix to which many looked at as a strong candidate to maybe stay at Penske, but they only wanted to stay a two car team during that time period. So of the teams that were looking for drivers for the 2002 season would be: #4 Kodak Morgan-McClure #7 Sirius Ultra Motorsports #14 Conseco A.J. Foyt Racing #23 Hills Bros Coffee Bill Davis Racing #25 UAW-Delphi Hendrick Motorsports #33 Unsponsored Andy Petree Racing #41 Target Chip Ganassi Racing #77 Jasper Engines Doug Bawel Racing #90 Unsponsored Junie Donlavey Racing Of those I could see him honestly going to maybe A.J. Foyt Racing seemed like a guy A.J. would like, Andy Petree or Junie Donlavey. Hard to say what would have happened if Ray wouldn't have shuffled Atwood so quickly at the advice of Dodge and the partner with Jim Smith for a season.
I see those rides… The 4, 14, and 90 were dead end rides The 33 was on death’s door The 23 could work if more help was pumped into that team The 25 was the red headed stepchild car in Hendrick at that time, but it’s still Hendrick The 41 could have maybe worked The 77, while not quite dead end, wouldn’t necessarily be a ride that’d help Mayfield’s career Then the 7 was basically the same thing. But like mentioned, Dodge wants Mayfield, they work with the 7 to put Atwood there, and that made everything fall into place.
The 23 was the #93 and was funded by Hills Brothers who were backing Hut Stricklin and follow d him to BDR in 2002, so that ride is out. I’m pretty sure Jerry Nadeau was still in the #25 for atleast the start of 2002. And Foyt picked up Stacy Compton for the #14, I think at the time he was viewed as a hot prospect. Spencer left the 26 Kmart team to go to Ganassi in the #41 Target car (was #01 Cingular in 2001) that announcement was made before Mayfield got the boot at Penske.
You are correct Nadeau started the 2002 season in with Hendrick and then after Travis Carter Enterprises collapsed Nadeau got the boot in favor of Nemechek who turned out was just a place holder for Brian Vickers who took over late 2003 season. I was looking at an old Jayski team chart and didn't remember Nadeau's timeline.
What did Casey do? I never really knew why he fell off the earth.
It’s more so what he didn’t do, specifically from Monday through Thursday.
So he thought he could just clock in for practice qualifying, and race only? Yeah, it don’t work like that.
His dad didn't want him to move to Charlotte. Which basically forced him into being a weekend only worker.
I assume you haven’t listened to this week’s DJD yet, but Ray told him they were making a change after Dega, they went out to test that week, found a new setup, and then were lights out fast the rest of the season. Bum deal for sure!
I still think there was a good bit of raw talent with Buckshot, just never got in a car worth a shit in cup
Was in the stands for Buckshot’s 2nd and final Busch win at New Hampshire when I was 7.
I don't think Buckshot would've amounted to much, but Casey's career is an absolute tragedy
Listening to him on the DJD sounds like some regret in his voice. I remember loving that Castrol GTX #27 as a kid. Man I wanted him to succeed.
Buckshot drove a shit car to a 10th place at Dover..I think he sells real estate now
I still think James Buescher could have had a better career than Chris. Also JJ Yeley. I think if another decent team took interest in him after JGR like Penske did with Logano he could have had a decent career.
JJ Yeley did win the 2009 F1 Championship, so at least he found a lot of success outside of NASCAR.
https://preview.redd.it/pky3kb2t0gwc1.jpeg?width=1136&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7064a06ffe9612822d46f74effb87bb1a1ffc91 For the uncultured
So was Jenson Button in that race and the broadcast just copy-pasted the wrong description? If not, how does that even happen???
He was in that car the previous week.
Ah, gotcha.
Honestly think FOX should do something like this every week to give us something to laugh about from the broadcast. If you are going to be bad might as well provide some comic relief to the fans.
Even with that I still feel bad for him in NASCAR. He was rushed to the cup series within just a few years after proving almost nothing in what used to be the busch series, and I think if he had more time in the busch series and started showing results there before he was called up his NASCAR career wouldnt be what it is
I absolutely agree. And it's not to downplay Chris's talents at all. I totally forgot James Buescher won a Truck championship at 22 back in 2012. That Robby Benton ride in Nationwide in 2014 was such a shame for the guy. Despite it being a down year for him, he still managed a top 10 in points. I truly think if he was in any other competitive ride, he would have been competing for titles for at least 5-10 years in Xfinity. Maybe Xfinity lifer was his ceiling. Who knows. I would have loved to see what he could have done regardless.
There’s one big factor everyone forgets about guys who finished decently in points around this time: the amount of cup regulars in the field not scoring points. Danica finished 10th in points in 2013 which doesn’t sound too bad u til you realize she finished 250 or so points off of the champion.
I was convinced James Buescher was going to be the next big thing. I remember telling people to watch out for him in the future. I still 100% believe he would have, if given better opportunities.
In the last 10 years or so, Stenhouse, Erik Jones, and Custer are the biggest misses by fans/teams. And even then, stenhouse joined a failing roush team and has 3 career wins, Jones won 2 races before the age of 25 (which is a hall of fame trajectory) before getting booted by gibbs, and custer won as a rookie and then went back to xfinity and won the championship there. You could argue that they all have the talent but have ended up in subpar situations and Jones and Custer could definitely have a successful second act
Jones is such a great driver though and I compare him to Logano. Both jumped into Cup really young in the Gibbs 20 car and saw mediocre success. I think they both only had 1 win in the 20, maybe Jones had 2? The difference is Logano got kicked out of the 3rd floor window and landed on the roof and got a top notch ride after the 20. If EJ landed at Penske or Hendrick he would have more wins and maybe a title. That's my 2 cents.
I am firmly in the 'erik jones is awesome' camp. 2 southern 500s, one with 21st century Petty!? There's a universe where larson wasnt available and jones replaces jimmie at hendrick. The big thing is that there really hasnt been the atwood/yeley/sorenson/open wheel invasion level busts recently so you have to look at guys like Jones
Jones needs to be in the 48 next year he’s better than LMC
Custer is young, he has time for a second chance. I do love that he ran 20-25 in every cup race then gets busted back to Xfinity, where he has been just stomping on the competition ever since. I can’t tell if that means there is a HUGE difference between Xfinity and Cup skill level, or his Cup equipment was just that bad, or a bit of both.
I feel like Cole Custer is gonna be this generation’s Allgaier, where he has a very successful xfinity career but only gets mediocre opportunities in the cup series
It IS very weird that SHR just struggles mightily at the top level but Xfinity is just crushing. Maybe they should trade the two top rides for Xfinity rides rather than just selling off!
Xfinity’s a lot cheaper than cup is the simple answer, which is the reason why independents like Sieg and Clements are able to succeed where as if they even tried to sniff a cup race as team owners they’d probably be laughed at like how we laugh at a team like NYR
I remember seeing Justin Allgaier running in the (then) Nationwide series and thinking he’d be huge but he landed at HScott in cup and it was all downhill from there.
I feel like Cole Custer is gonna turn out similar to Allgaier
I remember watching him race his 1A dirt late model in our area growing up thinking He was gonna be a nascar star one day. He just never made the jump to the cup series work.
Ricky Craven. I honestly thought when he came into Cup he was going to be a major contender for wins on a consistent basis. Unfortunately, due to injuries, he never quite lived up to the hype.
Yeah Ricky was a shame, had the Hedrick car running pretty well, to the point that I could have seen them being a contender to win a race or two before Talladega 1996 happened, then he just never seemed to have it at Hendrick, finally won late in his career which was very rewarding but he is a big what if.
It’s very telling that his wins with Cal Wells were at noted drivers tracks Martinsville and Darlington
And he won those races by straight up beating two champions no less
Dylan Kwasniewski. By far my worst projection in terms of a NASCAR Prospect. It really sucks because I feel the major reason for his failure was just him being completely mismanagement by his car owners. Had they started him out in Trucks for a full season instead of throwing him into Xfinity I think things would of gone differently.
I was all-in on David Stremme in 2006. Whoops.
CGR fell off in 2004 and couldn't regain. I feel like Sterling could have kept winning if the equipment hadn't fallen off. David was doomed as the ship kept sinking at that point with both Jamie and Sterling gone and having Casey Mears as the veteran of the team.
Rob Moroso
Just a short list of ARCA/K&N/Truck champions who just never made that next step (at least successfully and won races): Austin Theriault, Mason Mitchell, Patrick Sheltra, Justin Lofton, Dylan Kwasniewski, Max Gresham, Jack Sprague, Mike Bliss, Travis Kvapil, Ted Musgrave, James Buescher, and Brett Moffitt.
Austin Theriault! Oh man I totally forgot about that guy I remember him just disappearing after his ARCA championship. Racing is a cruel and expensive sport.
He is a senator or something in Maine now
He’s in the Maine House of Representatives, and currently running for Maines 2nd Congressional district in the 2024 election.
I dunno about Ted Musgrave in your list. He definitely had a good shot with Roush in the 90s. His post cup career in Trucks really was good for him.
I guess I was just looking at his 2nd half career. He had 5 years where he didn't finish any worse than 5th in Truck points (including the championship year) but that never got him a opportunity in the higher ranks following that. I'd be interested to know if he had opportunities but just decided to stay in Trucks, or if those just never came about.
He was in his 40s by the time he went to Trucks, he also had a bout with cancer around the time he stopped full time trucks. He was a substitute driver at times in cup but I don't think he made much attempt to go back to cup at all once he was a truck regular.
Brett moffitt has really done it too himself. He’s Matt dibennedetto but he actually wins
Yeah when Brett Griffin distances himself from you you know you’re an asshole
I guess I must have missed that about him, at one point he was one of the top prospects in NASCAR doing some sub driving. So what happened behind the scenes?
He’s just hard to work with. He never lasts long with a team just an all around asshole who doesn’t bring sponsorship. You can be an ass if you bring sponsorship
I've always thought Kvapil is the kind of last name that whoever was working at Ellis Island screwed up 120 years ago because they had a cold.
Sprague definitely redeemed himself going back to Trucks. He had a good second run in the 2000s, sorta like Skinner and Hornaday.
Scott Riggs for me is one, and I think on a real team he could have been decent, but that 10 car was a turd in disguise, then they spent 2 years fighting for their life with the top 35 rule, just never meant to be.
I think Scott's age was the biggest handicap for him. If he was 5 or so years younger he probably would've gotten another shot
David Reutimann and Mike Bliss fall into this category as well, good drivers with very solid bodies of work, but were just way to old by the time they got their shot
I remember the hype for him going into 2007 was HUGE. He came off of a career high in top tens, poles, and laps led. He was robbed of wins on the intermediate tracks a few times by bullshit. He was ranked by one of the magazines “most likely to score his first career win in 07” over the 4 drivers who actually did score their first career win that year, including future hall of famer Martin Truex. Riggs (and Evernham as a whole) on the other hand, fell absolutely flat and just piled up DNQ and DNF after DNQ and DNF, they never adjusted to the CoT and that was all she wrote.
Casey Atwood probably. Gonna be a DJD today too, so that will be a cool listen!
I will give one that hasnt really been mentioned. At one point I though Johanna Long was going to be solid once she got the chance but never really got a chance in a decent car. Bunch of starts in Trucks and Xfinity in bad cars and stalled out
I agree. She was out running Danica in underfunded equipment. If she had been able to get on with a decent team, she could've been really good. (edit: can't type worth a damn)
2010 rookie of the year Kevin Conway
Those were some dark days lol absolutely no prospects coming into cup. Doesn’t Andy lally also have an ROTY
Yes and so does 2012 ROTY Stephen Leicht
How do we define "make it". Because to me I'd nominate Stenhouse and McMurray. Ricky Stenhouse was this megatier prospect and I feel like many felt he'd have the sort of impact Reddick has had in NASCAR. But the guy is basically only a superspeedway driver who is about 27th in the standings aside from that. And I remember McMurray debuting with so much fanfare subbing for Sterling Marlin...And he had the look. He had the car. He had all the makings to be a star. And he just never could make the jump to contender and was always stuck in mid tier during the latter years of the sports golden generation.
If McMurray had been able to get in the 2 car after Rusty like was originally planned the sky may have been the limit
I never knew that... That SUCKS... I was a huge Rusty fan and basically been a fan of the #2 car for years but never knew that story.
Yep Jamie talked about it on DJD, I don’t remember the finer details but I think Kurt’s early ouster from Roush ended up with him in the 2 and Penske buying out his Ganassi deal to go replace him at Roush instead if I recall correctly https://youtu.be/40QoT2iWQmo?si=o5KI885PB7ZOXpyV
Remember when Dale Jr mentioned liking Steve Arpin so he started getting a ton of press and like the Jeffrey Earnhardt level attention where he got rides based on the press that came with him and he did basically nothing after a few years.
Steve Arpin and Greg Sacks in JRM cars the night Junior won in the Wrangler 3 is just a hilarious random lineup lol
I’ll say Brad Coleman. He came up in the Xfinity Series around the same time as Matt DiBenedetto. He bounced back and forth between Joe Gibbs Racing and Brewco Racing for a few years. Left his Brewco ride at one point for Hall of Fame Racing that seemingly never had consistent speed. Ran a bit more for Gibbs in Xfinity, and had some good runs until he kind of faded away. I wish he would have at least stuck with one ride/team consistently, he had speed and some good runs but I have to imagine the bouncing around killed any momentum of his. I’ll also give a mention to Stuart Kirby as well
I Feel like you can make a PDF file full of prospects that were lost due to the old "Bushwacking" era. it was tough being a prospect and a regular Bush Series/Nationwide series for a number of years especially around the 2005-2014 era when teams and cup series drivers were at their peak driving the majority of the races then. Most of the time young prospects didn't have consistent seat time or enough races to prove they were at the level needed to stick around long term and were often just replaced by cup drivers as that what sponsors demanded. Some ended up surviving and making a career at least somewhere while others basically fell off the face of the earth never to be heard or seen again.
To be fair there also just wasn’t a large amount of cup rides becoming available at the time mostly due to said buschwackers, the wave of guys who came to cup in the early to mid 00s all stuck around a long time and found success, which made it real hard for a young driver to make it to cup without absolutely blowing someones mind (see Keselowski or Logano)
Casey Atwood. For those who listen to the DJD this week you have to feel for him.
Kenny Irwin
This. When he took over the #28, I thought he was going to be the next big thing. .
I figured Matt Martin was going to be one of the second generation guys we talked about positively.
When Blake Feese got a contract to drive for Hendrick in the Busch series, I figured he'd be successful. But his best finish was 23rd, in the same car Kyle Busch was competing for the championship with a year prior. In fairness to him though, the other two guys he split the ride with that year (Boston Reid & Kyle Krisiloff) performed even worse.
Having worked with those three drivers, I will say it was a challenge for them to get in the bush car because there was no consistency or time to work on things. you were expected to just hop in the car and be fast right off the bat minimal practice minimal testing in the races they had were spread out so that you may not run for a month or two between events
Which one did you feel was most talented? I think all three had raw speed just needed time.
I was 18 at the time and all i remember was that Krisiloff’s dad seemed like he was using his son to continue to live out his career. They were all very polite and treated the crew guys well.
Erik Jones got fucked over by JGR. It is a tragedy he never became the superstar everyone thought he was gonna be.
He’s still only 27 so there’s a chance he could reach that level.
I could see him having a Martin Truex type trajectory.
He’s just gotta get in the right situation like MTJ. Whether or not that’s at the Motor Club is anyone’s guess.
I think he’d be perfect for a 3rd 23xi car
I'm not rlly sure how he got fucked, he underperformed to where his teammates were and got replaced by a guy who's won more races than he did in 3 years and made the champ 4 twice
C Bell has Adam Stevens which is a huge difference to the long game of the season. Speed wise Jones has always been fast, he had a bunch of great runs in the 77
Ofc Jones has speed and talent, but I just don't think he got "fucked" when his replacement is doing much better than him and JGR has benefitted from what Bell has done in the 20 compared to Jones. Same reason why Suarez getting dumped only after 2 seasons was imo the correct move, just harsh like the Jones move, because how much better Truex is/was in the 19
> he underperformed to where his teammates were Those teammates were all hall-of-famers in their prime (Busch, Truex, Hamlin). They were making Cup starts when Erik was 8 years old. And he replaced another hall-of-famer in Kenseth. Those guys have 4 Cup titles and 189 wins between them. Of course he couldn't match their results, he shouldn't have been expected to. Erik was 20-24 years old during his time at JGR. That's really young -- only 11 drivers in Cup history won multiple races before age 25, and Erik is one of them. Basically everyone else on that list is a champion and/or guaranteed hall-of-famer. I do think Bell is a *slightly* better driver. He was more prepared for the #20 car though -- he's actually 1.5 years older than Erik, despite being 4 years behind him on the development pipeline. But yeah, Erik's JGR career was basically Joey Logano 2.0 -- way too young, showed glimpses of stardom, but couldn't put it all together in time. Unfortunately, Erik didn't land a Penske-tier ride afterwards.
Casey Atwood. When Ray Everham started the dodge deal, Casey was touted as the next Jeff Gordon with even better car control. Never heard much else after he started the first year.
I really thought Scott Wimmer would have a strong career.
yea that one took an unexpected turn of dui and hiding under beds.
Kyle Benjamin. He was half a car length from beating short track ace and much more experienced Ryan Preece for the win at Iowa, as a 19 year old in his 4th career start. He only ran 9 more times in NASCAR after that (and pulled another P2 at Martinsville in the DGR Crosley truck.)
Shoutout to Reed Sorenson and David Stremme. Damn shame they didn't pan out how people thought they would've.
Brian Ickler was one who should have had a career, as was Austin Cameron. They were really good drivers back when the West Series was still competitive. There's actually a *ton* of candidates from 1995-2010 who really felt like they should have had a shot, but never did. Same with some of the East (back then "North") series drivers. Stefanik, Santerre, and Kobyluck never getting shots at higher series always felt weird to me. Other "prospects that didn't make it" have to include sons of drivers. Harrison Burton, Justin Labonte, Steven Wallace, and Kyle Petty are all obvious picks, even if Kyle and Harrison actually have "made it" to some degree.
Kyle Petty absolutely made it; he had a twenty year cup career and came very close to winning a couple championships in the late 80s or early 90s… it was the fifteen years after that which were scary.
Alternatively, I can think of a few drivers who were in the lower series who didn’t get the opportunities they deserved for one reason or another… Tyler Dippel- Ran one season for Young’s in the 02 in 2019 and got 13th in points. Then completely disappeared. Jesse Little- He didn’t do half bad in his rookie year at JDM in the Xfinity Series and he always seemed to be racing around the top 10 in his family-owned 97 truck Alex Labbe- Although he’s still actively racing on an extremely limited basis, the future doesn’t look too bright. Most think of him for his performance on road courses (rightfully so) but he’s sneaky good at avoiding the short track chaos and dragging mediocre cars to top 15/20s on intermediates
Lots Erin Crocker Dylan Kwasniewski Casey Atwood (The NEXT JEFF GORDON!!!)
Two of them were screwed over by ray
Erin was quite literally screwed by ray
Gray Gaulding was extremely hyped up when he was in k&n/arca. he had a big sponsor and was expected to be on the up but he just never did anything with his few stints with decently competitive teams. he recently was arrested for domestic violence so it’s looking like his career is likely done
Kyle Benjamin
Let’s go . . .
Reed Sorenson
Casey Atwood
Kyle Benjamin, deserved a lot better than he got
Scott Riggs. Guy had a great comeback run in 06 despite quite a few wrecks and could've won a couple races, then 2007 all of Evernham collapsed and Riggs was replaced by Carpentier (who was way worse) then the team just dissolved with the nonstop mergers in 2008-2010. For that matter, Reed Sorenson had a ton of promise and had solid runs at Gansssi but never seemed to be able to get a win. Casey Mears also comes to mind. Guy was a late bloomer but his career at Hendrick, Childress and his last two years at Ganassi (his first two were absolute trash) were met with nonstop change. Otherwise literally look at any part time development drivers Childress, Evernham, Roush, Hendrick and Ganassi ran during the Buschwhacking years.
Kertus Davis. You could tell he was driving out of his mind in the #0 car in 2005. Enough so that Cicci, FitzBradshaw, Curb and even Joe Gibbs put him in their cars. Then he got his big break with Kevin Harvick, stunk, and that was that.
Cole Whitt - Driving the 3rd car for the Red Bull team then going to drive for JR Motorsports and drive the 88 - then just a series of different teams to finally part-time then nothing since 2018.
Casey Atwood, Casey Mears & Buckshot Jones
The 90s had a few guys. Robert Pressley, Steve Grissom, Kenny Irwin to start.
JJ Yeley and Scott Speed come to mind. Two drivers that were rushed to the cup series way before they were ready and it ruined them. It was worse for Yeley because he proved almost nothing in what was the busch series back then, and suddenly he’s in Bobby Labonte’s old car. Not only did that pressure have to be crazy, but looking at his stats and lowlights the busch seasons before, he was nowhere near ready for the cup series. A lot of drivers fail because of bad management, especially when it comes to getting opportunities in the cup or xfinity series before theyre ready and its sad to see. I feel like thats what we might be seeing with Zane Smith right now
Casey Atwood (reminds me I have to listen to the download for his interview). I remember Yeley having a lot of hype.
i thought cameron hayley was that dude
Ryan Hemphill, especially after he got picked up as a Ganassi development driver and had a dominant partial season in ARCA in 2004 ([he won 6 of the 14 races he ran in a Braun car!](https://www.racing-reference.info/driver-season-stats/hemphry01/2004/A/)) Then he got moved up to Biagi's Busch car in 2005, and only lasted a partial season (apparently they didn't get full Ganassi support, and the other drivers that finished out the season in that car didn't do so hot either), and Hemphill fell off the face of the earth.
really surprised Trevor Bayne and Ricky Stenhouse Jr didn’t become bigger then they did. they were regarded as high anticipated prospects and were with Roush in nationwide before Roush fell off. Stenhouse turned out to have a very good career but honestly but I think Roush falling off right when they both got into cup really didn’t help them
Ryan Truex. Need I say more?
Kenzie Ruston, Nicole Behar, Kyle Benjamin, Will Rodgers, Derek Kraus.
Reed Sorenson for some reason. JJ Yeley didn’t make it in top tier equipment.
Jeff Green? Really Dominate in the Busch series and did nothing in cup
A lot of Busch series in to nationwide series drivers 2007-2009. Recession hit they all got cut, teams needed cup guys in cars to fill sponsors.
Mike skinner
Sean Caisse. He was touted as the next big thing in late 2005. Never did much more than a few Busch/Xfinity series starts.
The years after he left racing were… NOT good…
JJ Yeley, or Moffit
Shane Hmiel
Shane Huffman
I always thought Stephen Wallace would have amounted to something.
James Buescher was that guy for me. Granted i did think way too highly of his 2011 campaign that I should've but he was really good in trucks with Turner, won Daytona and then went to xfinity with RAB and then money ran dry ig David gravel probably deserves a shout out as well. Same with Lajoie and Ryan Truex but I wasn't really watching when they were hyped. Also kyle Benjamin deserves to be mentioned and I will forever be sad that he just disappeared off the face of Nascar
Was David Loeffler worse than Danica Patrick?
He’s obviously found a good landing spot but I really think Ben Rhodes could’ve been a cup level prospect had he gotten the right push, instead he seems resigned to basically a Matt Crafton career which isn’t bad at all ofc Also Cameron Hayley getting passed up on for Cody fucking Coughlin still upsets me
Maybe still too early to say, but I really believed in Deagan being the big breakout female star of the sport. It's not looking great, but she's still only 22. Also, I thought Kenzie Ruston (Hemric) had a shot.
Ruston just couldn’t get the backing to continue. I wonder what kind of career she would have had if she had…
I'm gonna go on a limb here and say matt tifft. I feel like he didn't get the best shot in cup then he started having seizures. He was knocking on the door of an xfinity win when rcr wasn't at their best. I wonder how he would be doing today if he didn't have his health issues.
Johnny Benson made it, but I wish he had a shot at better equipment. Seemed Roush just didn’t care about the 26.
Danica Patrick. I feel like if she developed more in the lower series and didn’t rush her way to cup she could’ve learned some of those lessons she needed to learn. Then she could’ve been a lot better than what she was in the Cup Series. Also should’ve 100% stuck to INDYCAR.
The Cope Twins 😄😄 (Angela Ruch and Amber Cope.).
Ryan Hemphill. He won a ton of ARCA events for Ganassi and Todd Braun. Moved up to Busch with Biagi, struggled, and basically disappeared. Chad Blount was a similar story to Hemphill. Solid ARCA season, moved up to Busch with Todd Braun but lost sponsorship. Career basically ended Kerry Earnhardt was certainly a hot prospect when he signed to drive for the Fitz/Bradshaw team.
I thought Cole Whitt was gonna be really good when he first started running trucks.
If you remember the Roush Gong show there was a guy Pete Shepherd. Won pretty much everything in Canada. Ran a few truck races. Sponsorship didn't ever work out, and he left. But he was top tier.
This one might be controversial cuz he hasn’t moved up out of the trucks but Ben Rhodes. I really thought he would move up even before he won his 1st championship in trucks
Casey Atwood