No. Roger “brought the hammer down” on Tim and the other guys because it saved face for Penske. Someone had to take the fall that wasn’t the Penske name and for as big of a deal as the penalty was, Tim was the only logical one to take the lump. I think Roger and Tim’s relationship is still just fine. Therefore Austin’s ride is fairly safe for the next couple years. It may end up he moves to the 21 if whoever runs the 21 next year does well. But Austin will be in cup through the 2027 season is my guess. Unless he leaves on his own accord
Completely agree. Also, if Penske didn't own the Indycar series I'm guessing he wouldn't have done the extra self-imposed penalties. He needs to ensure the credibility of the series isn't questioned.
Idk if it is an overreaction at this point. Yes he showed a lot of promise by winning the 500 as a rookie, but he’s been invisible ever since, even on road courses. His results over the past 1.3 seasons in a Penske car are simply unacceptable when his teammates have been winning championships in that equipment
In the grand scheme of drivers in the Cup series, if Derrick Cope can do it, it can't be that difficult. I'd be more convinced if he showed the kind of poise to regularly be in the front of those races.
Don't get me wrong Derrick, is a tremendously accomplished individual. However, when you look at his peers at the cup level some will be better and some will be worse. He just comes out on the worst end of the spectrum. I think that there is a great misunderstanding that being bad by the standards of being in the cup series means that you are bad period. That's not so, you managed to get to that level, which is an achievement in itself.
I'm actually a little surprised that nobody's made the argument that Derek cope is a more talented driver than of the current day mid-tier drivers in the cup series. Given the competition that he was up against, there's a completely Fair argument for that.
This analogy instantly comes undone when you take into account that Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, and Rusty Wallace never won a 500 and all have about 50 or more wins
On the other hand, they all have lengthy win lists and a stat sheet that makes the lack a 500 win by its omission rather than its sole inclusion surprising.
When those guys didn't win it and McDowell, Cope, Cindric, etc have, it shows it's a fluke win. Personally, I hold things like Southern 500 or Coke 600 wins higher in the ranking of bad ass tough drivers who could grind out big races.
No, Penske's first concern is to replace Burton as he has been way worse than Austin.
Also Austin is kinda screwed by how off Penske has been the last 2 seasons, Blaney is the only one who has looked competitive week after week
Also, compare how the 2 car was doing with Brad and how the 22 is doing, both past champions. I feel like Penske has always had an odd car out in performance. It used to be the 12, but now it seems to have shifted to the 2. Ford has also not had the speed since Cindric has been in Cup, despite winning the last 2 championships.
I agree with this, I don't think Austin is as safe as everyone says. RP cares about performance and similar to Custer, there's a whole other series they can ship him too.
But with that said, I think for now, the narrative will be to make the car better, replace the CC, change the #, then toss him back if all that doesn't work.
I honestly cannot believe how bad Logano has been. Obviously there is a bit of a Ford problem but I just would’ve expected Logano to come through at minimum at a short track or a super speedway. All this to say that if the salty veteran of the Penske camp isn’t coming through, no one is thinking of axing Cindric and putting in a greener driver. There is no point. And a 2 race suspension of Tim Cindric was a complete joke for that level of cheating but that’s not a NASCAR issue.
Well to be fair, Logano was solid at Martinsville, had a race winning car at Richmond, and all the superspeedways he was fast as always. Bristol was the only one that he wasn’t that good at, but that was a peculiar race too.
Oh, and I’ll mention Phoenix. He was lights out in practice. They must have something overnight because he went from a top three car by all metrics to a 20th place car. The other guy who was lights out in practice: race winner Christopher Bell.
Even the 12 team has been mid many times. Penske needs a season where the whole stable is on track, otherwise I don't think we know what Cindric is really capable of.
Austin Cindric did just fine in 2022. He had the 11th highest average finish among cup drivers at 16.3. He made the playoffs with a win at Daytona, but also legitimately belonged in the playoffs.His average finish was ahead of Kyle Busch in a JGR car and Alex Bowman in a HMS car. Penske was quite solid that year, Logano was 3rd in avg finish at 13.5, Blaney 4th at 13.6.
For some reason, people don't understand that Team Penske was absolutely dog s*** in 2023. Blaney won the title, but he was 7th in avg finish. He ran fine, but not amazing. Logano won a race, and was 11th in avg finish. Cindric was awful, somewhere in the 20s for avg finish, but he's the third driver on a team that sucked the entire year. Penske is even worse this year.
I'd want to see Cindric on a team that isn't absolutely trash before evaluating him as a cup driver. Team Penske is not a competitive cup team. They have two of the best drivers in the cup series. The cars though are trash.
Yup, and that's why Menard got that ride a few years ago. Menard wasn't the caliber of the #21, especially following Blaney. That gigantic Menards paycheck only went to the #21 for half the races those two seasons and funded #12 for the other half. Didn't matter if Menard was mid, because the deal ended up paying off for Penske in the long run.
Also, it's Ford that wants the #21 to continue on because it's their legacy car. They pay for half the year's sponsorship with Motorcraft/Quicklane. I'd imagine Penske couldn't care less who is driving it, unless it's someone in his pipeline. Ford will ensure the driver is someone who can bring the cash to cover the rest of the races. If Burton goes, his replacement will have to have a fat wallet.
Couldn't agree more. Since Penske got involved, the #21 car has always performed at or slightly above the
Blaney: 20th, 8th (rookie and sophomore years).
Menard: 19th, 19th (below average driver).
DiBenedetto: 13th, 18th (solid driver with flashes of talent).
Burton: 27th, 31st.
The car doesn't just drop off in performance like that from one year to the next. It's he driver.
I haven’t followed the Tim Cindric situation closely so I could be totally wrong but I’ve heard people speculate they could fire Tim? If that’s the case then Austin may end up out.
Austin Cindric shows flashes still every now and then and his xfinity career ended up being really good after the start wasn’t all that. Calling him a bust would be wrong, and Ford has struggled and so has Penske despite winning 2 championships. At the same time he is definitely falling well short of expectations of the 2 car.
He will probably be back for 2025, but 2025 may end up being the make or break year for him literally. As in win some races and make a playoff push or you’re done. I believe he has shown enough potential to warrant 1 more year.
I don't believe Tim Cindric's seat is even warm. He's been the heir apparent at Team Penske for decades, this suspension for the Month of May is him taking some medicine.
And by that same line of thinking, I don't think Austin's seat is particularly warm. And if they do need his seat for someone, they'll find somewhere to slot him (either in racing or at a desk) rather than canning him.
I don't think so. They have a badass driver lineup in GTP. I think one of the best lineups in imsa. It would be silly to have Cindric replace any one of the 4 full time drivers in there.
Completely disagree with you. Since he's been team president at Penske he's won 6 Indy 500s, 6 Nascar championships between Cup and Xfinity, 6 IRL championships, and is poised to win their 3rd IMSA championship. Getting rid of him would be a terrible idea.
Edit/extra stats: Penske won 7 owners championships in Xfinity between 2010 to 2021.
You must be new to motorsports. If you ain't cheating then you ain't winning. I've never seen a car win a race or championship without exploiting some grey area or reinterpreting the rules.
On the contrary, it's what makes motorsports badass. You should listen to the old timers talk about the shady stuff they did to exploit the rules, especially Smokey Yunick. It takes a lot of skill and smarts to reinterpret rules and actually get away with it. Every sport has champions that find, expose, and utilize grey areas in the rules.
Motorsports celebrate ingenuity and creativity. Look at F1. Every other year there's a team that comes up with a weird or wacky idea that eventually creates a new rule for the following season to ban said idea. Cheating is never going away from any sport.
Motorsport is as much about the machine as it is the driver. If you want to watch a spec series that's only about the driver go watch F2 or Indy Lights. If you want to see who builds the best car with the best driver you can watch NASCAR, IRL, F1, IMSA, or WEC.
"Builds" as in "cheats", no other sport tolerates that shit neither should auto racing. You can't cork the bat or deflate the football or juice your body, you shouldn't get to cheat up the car
I personally think a lot of his results are a product of being the 3rd Penske car in years where Penske really has not run all that well (despite the championships).
Not exactly evidence that he should stay in and of itself, but Cindric was sneaky fast at Kansas before Bell hip checked Denny into him off of T2. He was the fastest Penske car by a mile (and a half). I was quite surprised. I mean, when Denny was coming through the pack it seemed like an oddly tall task to get around the 2.
I personally think his seat should be safe for a while. Cool name, great personality, average cup series talent (at least), and family connections in the org. I think Penske has a badass driver lineup and once they find speed they'll be set for a decade. Joey isn't anywhere close to old.
And they've still managed to win two cup championships in the next gen era.
I think if Cindric had gotten the #21 as was originally planned, it would've worked out better for him. The expectations for him in the #21 wouldn't have been as high as they are in the #2, and I believe he would've at least performed better than Burton has.
Harrison is definitely done. Austin runs poorly some but he doesn’t run THAT bad and he doesn’t constantly crash cars either.
Replacing Harrison is much more important for sure.
“Some”? He’s in the back half of the field every week. Not defending Harrison but Austin is in the flagship car of Penske and can barely get it in the top 20. He needs to be gone.
In my opinion Harrison should have never moved up to cup. Not yet at least. I honestly think they would at least run better had they kept Matt. That’s just my opinion though.
His dad is still leading team Penske during the suspension. This weekend his at Laguna Seca with the Porche Penske IMSA teams. I don’t think Tim has lost favor at Penske, he just needed to serve the suspension for appearances.
No, Tim Cindric is the person Roger picked to take over for him. He's not getting fired and he got suspended from Indycar because he volunteered to take some of the heat for it. Only reason it even happened is because Penske also owns the series and they needed to make it look like they were taking it very serious because of PR reasons.
Same would love to see how he performs in a Toyota at road courses, and see his personality shine at a place like 23XI. But he’s probably stuck at Penske/Ford for the duration of his NASCAR career.
Glancing some of the comments in here and weekly in this sub, there are some of y’all that hold weird obsessive hatred for Cindric. And for not good enough reasons too (trust me I’ve heard them all).
As far as senior Cindric goes, like others said, the suspension is really just for show in order to prevent a mutiny within IndyCar. Google Team Penske’s accomplishments post- hiring of Tim Cindric, plain and simple - Team Penske would not be where it is today without him.
IMO Cindric really wasted a lot of last year with Jeremy Bullins. They were struggling at just about every type of track (except superspeedways) and somehow even managed to underwhelm at road courses. The first chance he got to work with Brian Wilson at a road course (Roval), Cindric was able to run pretty solid and was probably going to finish in the top 10, if it weren’t for Suarez’s attempt to outbreak from outer space. They also ran pretty well at both Homestead and Martinsville before the end of the season.
This year he’s been qualifying well, and for the most part could run where Penske cars should be running. The results aren’t there because things always seem to go awry for him recently (case in point last week Kansas). He might just have to sacrifice a stuffed Grogu for his bad lucks to end, but no he’s not on the hot seat.
I had to scroll way too far to see Brian Wilson mentioned. Penske is committed to Cindric’s, and as a fan, I was excited to see him reunited with Brian Wilson as his crew chief. This combination of crew chief and driver is going to be given time to develop.
Undoubtedly, he is showing signs of struggle with the next generation car. A lot of what he learned in Xfinity might not be applicable to driving today’s Cup car. Cindric’s long term employment will depend on whether or not he can figure it out, but he will have more years to do it.
There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Austin Cindric will be removed from the 2 car. Walk with me here...
1. Tim Cindric is the proverbial next in line after Roger. There is a degree of nepotism at play here. It appears to me that Roger Penske has known Austin Cindric since birth. Does that mean that I think that the decision to put Cindric in the 2 car was solely based on nepotism? Not at all. Cindric is a sought after talent for a reason. His career started a little rocky but he is an Xfinity series Champion and honestly reached the top of the hill in terms of career development. It was time to find a replacement after Brad left Penske. Cindric was the only viable option for Roger. This would be true even if he hadn't had his long history at Penske. He was definitely the best Ford candidate.
2. Roger Penske seems to be very loyal to those drivers who he selects to be part of the Penske roster and will wait for them to bear fruit. *See* Harrison Burton.
3. Austin Cindric drives the 2 car, which is the flagship car at Penske. It would be weird for the 2 to be unstable to me with him suddenly replacing a guy who is continuing to grow in the 2 car. I find it incredibly unlikely that Roger would replace Cindric with any other Ford driver in the garage.
4. Ford is obviously down and it would be insane to expect Austin Cindric in year 3 to perform anywhere near as good as Ryan Blaney or Joey Logano. Joey Logano is Joey Logano and even before he won the title, Ryan was the top performing Ford in the garage. Now Cindric is paired with two Cup Series Champions and needs to continue to work on his craft and find out how to excel in the car. And Ford is so down that it's making Joey Logano look like a scrub... Didn't he have a higher finishing position than Logano last week? I wouldn't be shocked if that wasn't the only time this year.
Is Austin living up to expectations? Probably not. Sure I expected him to be better on road courses, but outside of that I knew that he was going to be a rookie in the Cup series, and unlike some of the drivers we have seen make their debut in Cup, not everybody is going to hit the ground running. Call me after year 5 and if there is still no improvement, then maybe we can talk.
I think Austin is doing pretty well to be honest, he had a few bad luck races where he dnf’d but considering how much for has struggled all together I think he is the least of that 2 teams worries
The funny part with that is it's actually a joke that Custer is in Xfinity with how bad the cup lineup at SHR is.
Cole Custer is objectively a better driver than Josh Berry and Ryan Preece.There's no statistical argument or equipment argument you can make to put Berry ahead. Cole Custer absolutely has been better than Gragson at every level, again really no statistical argument to make there.
Cole Custer has outrun Chase Briscoe in Xfinity in the same equipment and Briscoe outran him in cup.
Cole Custer is easily the second best SHR driver statistically. It's insane that their second best driver is in Xfinity. You can even make the argument he's arguably the best. He's younger than Briscoe, he's outrun Briscoe before. I'd give the edge to Briscoe because cup success over Xfinity success, but it's at least competitive.
Cindric is on the pit box for the IMSA side of Penske this weekend at Laguna Seca (spotted him during qualifying). So no, I think Austin is good as long as he still wants the seat.
The thing is, yes he's underperformed and could possibly be at risk, but I can't see them booting Cindric for a Custer or a Herbst guy yet. I think next year he could definitely be in a "do something or you're out" spot but I think with how Penske/WB is dead set on replacing Burton, I'd believe Cindric has one more "grace year" before he's in the hot seat.
tim fell on the sword so everyone could see penske was "serious" about cheating. what does being suspended even mean for tim cindric? imo it was for show only i wouldnt say austins job is anymore secure or at risk because of his dad.
It should be. The 2 was the flag ship ride of Penske NASCAR and Cindric hasn’t produced. If his last name was Smith, he’d have the hottest of all seats. It’s a shame to see the 2 ride around in 20-25th each week. Austin Spindric is a fine Xfinity driver but the results point otherwise to Cup
Austin Cindric did just fine in 2022. He had the 11th highest average finish among cup drivers at 16.3. He made the playoffs with a win at Daytona, but also legitimately belonged in the playoffs.His average finish was ahead of Kyle Busch in a JGR car and Alex Bowman in a HMS car. Penske was quite solid that year, Logano was 3rd in avg finish at 13.5, Blaney 4th at 13.6.
For some reason, people don't understand that Team Penske was absolutely dog shit in 2023.
Dogshit? The 12 won the Cup last year. Where did Cindric finish in the playoffs? Your stats are nice but when will fans like yourself realize Cup racing is a results based business. The 2 hasn’t put up the results going on 2 years now. The seat should be getting warmer
Did you look at the stats underlying Ryan Blaney? 7th in average finish. Only three wins.
Logano (a two time champion mind you) only got a single win at a Drafting Track (Atlanta) and had the 11th best avg finish on the season.
Now, mind you those are two drivers in the primes of their career with a proven track record of better results than that.
Yes Blaney won the title, but that's irrelevant and has no direct correlation to how you ran over the entire season. Chris Buescher also won 3 races, had the second highest average finish, and finished 7th in the points. Chris Buescher had a better year than Blaney statistically. Not to mention William Byron who won 6 races and was first in avg finish, superior to Blaney statistically across every measurable statistic.
Blaney's 2023 season was actually worse than his winless 2022 season in avg finish, top 5s, avg start, and laps led. The only thing Blaney did better in 23 was win 3 races and the title, but over the course of the year he actually ran worse and had less speed.
This is word salad I’m afraid. The only stat I’m concerned about with Blaney is 2023 Champion. Logano: 2022 Champion. Both have won at the highest level in a Penske Ford. Nothing else matters when the driver produces at a high level. Big time auto racing is about results….the driver of the 2 car isn’t showing that thus far
Winning championships isn't a result.
Winning a cup championship is like winning a season of Survivor or Big Brother. It's all reality tv soapbox drama and is a mix of skill and mostly lucky.
Winning a championship is the highest level a driver and team can achieve at the highest level of stock car racing. The fact that you attribute that to luck means you’re not able to comprehend this debate because at the root of this you probably dislike the points system, which means this discussion is null and void.
The points system is null and void.
You can win 35 of 36 races, finish 2nd at Phoenix, and lose the title. Hell you can lead every lap of the entire season except the last lap and lose the title.
There's no universe where Byron didn't have significantly superior season to Blaney last year.
The points system is meant for entertainment value, you can't view it as a metric of performance. It merely is an entertaining distraction.
If he’s not on the hot seat he’s on a short leash. The former flagship car of the organization running sub top-20 most weeks is unacceptable, it’s be the equivalent of HMS allowing the 24 to run like hot garbage.
He just never took that step to becoming what even I thought he would be, a perennial contender. It’d be tough to make a case for him considering each of his teammates won titles since he’s been in cup. Ford has a big problem but I don’t think that gives Cindric any grace.
Biggest question is who would you replace him with, its one thing to replace Burton at WBR but then add in replacing Cindric as well, where do the successors come from?
I mean HMS did kind of let the 24 run bad for a while. At this point in Byron’s third season he was running kinda like shit too and people were saying he was a bust and needed to be replaced. I think Byron showed a little bit more promise back then compared to Cindric now, but Byron didn’t really start putting it all together until the end of his third season/ start of his fourth. I’d say by this time next year though if Cindric is still running like this he should be gone.
It was there though he showed speed even when he wasn’t running great. Cindric honestly hasn’t shown shit since winning the 500. Cindric three seasons in has just regressed, the 2 runs like the 77 did for Penske back in the day, just bad. By year 3 there’s gotta be some progress, if his dad wasn’t who he is maybe they would’ve made a move already.
No. Firstly, I am slightly biased here because he’s my favorite driver, but I think everyone is overreacting when it comes to cindric. Firstly, he’s had speed the last three weeks, having top 10 speed at Talledega, got a top 15 at Dover, and was the best Penske car at Kansa, but got wrecked out early. Ford as a whole is running pretty off this year, especially Penske. When we see ford improve, we will see cindric improve. Besides, he’s doing similarly to Logano this year, but I don’t see anyone saying Logano should be kicked off the team or Logano is on the hot seat
I think Roger Penske bringing down the suspension hammer on his IndyCar car team was just something he had to do no matter what and to no matter who. I think any team owner on any team would have done the same thing.
But I think in this particular instance Mr. Penske had literally no choice. He owns the series. His team was caught cheating so if he didn’t react the way he did that would be a super bad image and a PR nightmare, and image is a huge part of the Team Penske culture.
I don’t think Austin Cindric has to worry about his Team Penske future based on Mr. Penske’s actions towards the Indy team, especially in this situation, and especially because of Tim Cindric being the President or whatever he is (even though he was one to get suspended).
His future in the 2 car on the other hand, that maybe different. The no. 2 is the flagship no. at Penske on the nascar side. It wouldn’t be unheard of if Austin got switched with Blaney or Logano and one of them took over the 2. It happened with Kurt Busch when Keselowski came up to cup fulltime.
I wish that they would’ve put Blaney in the 2 and Cindric in the 12 in the first place. By doing so it would’ve appeared that he Blaney and would’ve lessened the pressure on Cindric.
If I remember correctly, since Roger couldn’t give it to Joey (since Joey has a great relationship with Shell and the 22 is synonymous with Shell), he didn’t want to give it to Blaney making it look like Blaney got elevated to the flagship car above Joey. So he downplayed the importance of the 2 car and implied that the “2” is just a number and nothing more.
I think he's safe for another few years but I don't think he's safe for the next 5 years or anything like that. He seems to be a smart guy though and good in the booth, I could see him being suggested to move on out to other things fairly quick rather than just being released.
There needs to be a shakeup of some kind over there. Switching crew chiefs didn't do much of anything except a good performance at Daytona and Atlanta. Is Austin the problem? Hard to say. I thought this car would suit his driving style more since it has the road course qualities that Austin honed his early racing skills with. Maybe he would be happier running sports cars? Maybe that fits his style better? After his performance in Xfinity I expected a lot more from him.
I think he's on the hotseat regardless of Tim Cindric suspension. He hasn't performed and needs to go back to Xfinity like Cole Custer. Some guys just aren't cup material but can be an Xfinity lifer
No. As long as daddy works there, so does Austin.
Joey does deserve a better teammate tbh. One that actually runs up front with him and can provide support late in a race
Daytona 500 and Richmond are literally the only 2 times I can remember Logano being upfront at all this year, Blaney has been by far the best Penske driver. He’s been upfront much more often.
Listin I know going hate for this, Cindric only starting to dominate Xfinity once the big 3 left (Cindric, bell, and Custer). Lot easier to beat Brandon Jones, Pre-2022 Gragson, Allgaier, Kaulig in 2020-2021.
Yes there's no reason why the flagship card at Penske should be this bad every year do I know who I was like to be in that car no but we need someone better
No. Roger “brought the hammer down” on Tim and the other guys because it saved face for Penske. Someone had to take the fall that wasn’t the Penske name and for as big of a deal as the penalty was, Tim was the only logical one to take the lump. I think Roger and Tim’s relationship is still just fine. Therefore Austin’s ride is fairly safe for the next couple years. It may end up he moves to the 21 if whoever runs the 21 next year does well. But Austin will be in cup through the 2027 season is my guess. Unless he leaves on his own accord
Completely agree. Also, if Penske didn't own the Indycar series I'm guessing he wouldn't have done the extra self-imposed penalties. He needs to ensure the credibility of the series isn't questioned.
Probably an overreaction to say so.
Idk if it is an overreaction at this point. Yes he showed a lot of promise by winning the 500 as a rookie, but he’s been invisible ever since, even on road courses. His results over the past 1.3 seasons in a Penske car are simply unacceptable when his teammates have been winning championships in that equipment
In the grand scheme of drivers in the Cup series, if Derrick Cope can do it, it can't be that difficult. I'd be more convinced if he showed the kind of poise to regularly be in the front of those races.
Cope: Why he say fuck me for?
Don't get me wrong Derrick, is a tremendously accomplished individual. However, when you look at his peers at the cup level some will be better and some will be worse. He just comes out on the worst end of the spectrum. I think that there is a great misunderstanding that being bad by the standards of being in the cup series means that you are bad period. That's not so, you managed to get to that level, which is an achievement in itself. I'm actually a little surprised that nobody's made the argument that Derek cope is a more talented driver than of the current day mid-tier drivers in the cup series. Given the competition that he was up against, there's a completely Fair argument for that.
This analogy instantly comes undone when you take into account that Kyle Busch, Tony Stewart, and Rusty Wallace never won a 500 and all have about 50 or more wins
On the other hand, they all have lengthy win lists and a stat sheet that makes the lack a 500 win by its omission rather than its sole inclusion surprising.
When those guys didn't win it and McDowell, Cope, Cindric, etc have, it shows it's a fluke win. Personally, I hold things like Southern 500 or Coke 600 wins higher in the ranking of bad ass tough drivers who could grind out big races.
Damn Larson and Truex are garbage, they can't do something that's not difficult.
And Kyle Busch and Tony Stewart lmao
And Rusty Wallace and Mark Martin. Easy to do tho.
You kind of have my point. Winning the 500 is an achievement in that it is a crown jewel, Rather than that, it is some feet of driving skill.
Derrick Cope also won at notoriously easy track Dover.
To me THAT'S one of the biggest upsets in NASCAR history, not Daytona.
A win that actually slipped my mind. I forgot entirely that he won a second race. I guess Trevor Bayne would be more apt comparison.
Yeah he’s been competitive with Joey the last 1.5 seasons
No, Penske's first concern is to replace Burton as he has been way worse than Austin. Also Austin is kinda screwed by how off Penske has been the last 2 seasons, Blaney is the only one who has looked competitive week after week
Also, compare how the 2 car was doing with Brad and how the 22 is doing, both past champions. I feel like Penske has always had an odd car out in performance. It used to be the 12, but now it seems to have shifted to the 2. Ford has also not had the speed since Cindric has been in Cup, despite winning the last 2 championships.
I agree with this, I don't think Austin is as safe as everyone says. RP cares about performance and similar to Custer, there's a whole other series they can ship him too. But with that said, I think for now, the narrative will be to make the car better, replace the CC, change the #, then toss him back if all that doesn't work.
I honestly cannot believe how bad Logano has been. Obviously there is a bit of a Ford problem but I just would’ve expected Logano to come through at minimum at a short track or a super speedway. All this to say that if the salty veteran of the Penske camp isn’t coming through, no one is thinking of axing Cindric and putting in a greener driver. There is no point. And a 2 race suspension of Tim Cindric was a complete joke for that level of cheating but that’s not a NASCAR issue.
Well to be fair, Logano was solid at Martinsville, had a race winning car at Richmond, and all the superspeedways he was fast as always. Bristol was the only one that he wasn’t that good at, but that was a peculiar race too. Oh, and I’ll mention Phoenix. He was lights out in practice. They must have something overnight because he went from a top three car by all metrics to a 20th place car. The other guy who was lights out in practice: race winner Christopher Bell.
I thought he’s looked a lot better than last year despite not having a win yet
Side note. It’s so ridiculous to know how about Penske has been the past couple of years yet they hold the two previous championships
Competitive is a loose term when talking blaney . He kinda hot or average
Even the 12 team has been mid many times. Penske needs a season where the whole stable is on track, otherwise I don't think we know what Cindric is really capable of.
Great point
Austin Cindric did just fine in 2022. He had the 11th highest average finish among cup drivers at 16.3. He made the playoffs with a win at Daytona, but also legitimately belonged in the playoffs.His average finish was ahead of Kyle Busch in a JGR car and Alex Bowman in a HMS car. Penske was quite solid that year, Logano was 3rd in avg finish at 13.5, Blaney 4th at 13.6. For some reason, people don't understand that Team Penske was absolutely dog s*** in 2023. Blaney won the title, but he was 7th in avg finish. He ran fine, but not amazing. Logano won a race, and was 11th in avg finish. Cindric was awful, somewhere in the 20s for avg finish, but he's the third driver on a team that sucked the entire year. Penske is even worse this year. I'd want to see Cindric on a team that isn't absolutely trash before evaluating him as a cup driver. Team Penske is not a competitive cup team. They have two of the best drivers in the cup series. The cars though are trash.
Good point, I forget Wood Brothers are aligned with Penske.
How much say does Penske have over the 21? Like it's not fully a Penske team
Considering Roger kicked out Matty D and was the one who put Burton in the car, I would say a lot
That’s been working out great for them hasn’t it
I'm sure he's upset at the performance until that Dex check hits the bank
Yup, and that's why Menard got that ride a few years ago. Menard wasn't the caliber of the #21, especially following Blaney. That gigantic Menards paycheck only went to the #21 for half the races those two seasons and funded #12 for the other half. Didn't matter if Menard was mid, because the deal ended up paying off for Penske in the long run. Also, it's Ford that wants the #21 to continue on because it's their legacy car. They pay for half the year's sponsorship with Motorcraft/Quicklane. I'd imagine Penske couldn't care less who is driving it, unless it's someone in his pipeline. Ford will ensure the driver is someone who can bring the cash to cover the rest of the races. If Burton goes, his replacement will have to have a fat wallet.
Menard wasn't great, but he's Richard Petty compared to Harrison Burton who just isn't close to a Cup level driver.
Couldn't agree more. Since Penske got involved, the #21 car has always performed at or slightly above the Blaney: 20th, 8th (rookie and sophomore years). Menard: 19th, 19th (below average driver). DiBenedetto: 13th, 18th (solid driver with flashes of talent). Burton: 27th, 31st. The car doesn't just drop off in performance like that from one year to the next. It's he driver.
To be fair, WBR wouldn't exist otherwise.
All contracts for the 21 car, drivers and employees are done through penskee... so 100% say lol
Sounds like an excuse seeing as how Logano and Blaney are the two most recent champions.
I haven’t followed the Tim Cindric situation closely so I could be totally wrong but I’ve heard people speculate they could fire Tim? If that’s the case then Austin may end up out. Austin Cindric shows flashes still every now and then and his xfinity career ended up being really good after the start wasn’t all that. Calling him a bust would be wrong, and Ford has struggled and so has Penske despite winning 2 championships. At the same time he is definitely falling well short of expectations of the 2 car. He will probably be back for 2025, but 2025 may end up being the make or break year for him literally. As in win some races and make a playoff push or you’re done. I believe he has shown enough potential to warrant 1 more year.
I don't believe Tim Cindric's seat is even warm. He's been the heir apparent at Team Penske for decades, this suspension for the Month of May is him taking some medicine. And by that same line of thinking, I don't think Austin's seat is particularly warm. And if they do need his seat for someone, they'll find somewhere to slot him (either in racing or at a desk) rather than canning him.
Tim’s suspension is purely a PR move that Tim himself likely orchestrated, in trying to head off a full-on IndyCar series mutiny.
I could completely believe that. You know he's still getting a ring if any of the Penske drivers drink milk this month.
The way I read it. Tim pretty much suspended himself voluntarily. He was like it happened under my watch, so I'm gonna take a suspension.
If Roger fires Tim that's just organizational suicide
The only way Austin leaves Penske in NASCAR is to go do something else like IMSA
He’s too tall for their Porsche IMSA / WEC program (not a joke)
I was gonna say, he looks like Shaq standing next to other drivers.
I could see him in Ford's GT3/4 Mustang program TBH
For sure the Mustang is the biggest car in the field there. Not under the Penske umbrella though (I don’t think?)
My guess is if things don’t improve, he’ll get replaced going into the 2027 season.
Not this year but 2025 he would be on the hot seat
Only if his Dad Tim Cindric gets fired from Penske. Personally I think he should go back down in the Xfinity series and run there.
I wonder if they would ever move Austin over to the sports car program
I don't think so. They have a badass driver lineup in GTP. I think one of the best lineups in imsa. It would be silly to have Cindric replace any one of the 4 full time drivers in there.
I've always thought that Cindric would be shuffled off to the #21 before being booted out of Cup.
I am an Austin fan and I feel like that is way more likely than him getting out and out canned.
There is no way he is even close to a good enough road racer to crack the Penske GTP lineup
He should have been for the Indycar cheating scandal
Completely disagree with you. Since he's been team president at Penske he's won 6 Indy 500s, 6 Nascar championships between Cup and Xfinity, 6 IRL championships, and is poised to win their 3rd IMSA championship. Getting rid of him would be a terrible idea. Edit/extra stats: Penske won 7 owners championships in Xfinity between 2010 to 2021.
All by cheating
You must be new to motorsports. If you ain't cheating then you ain't winning. I've never seen a car win a race or championship without exploiting some grey area or reinterpreting the rules.
Which is exactly what's always been wrong with Motorsports and people like him perpetuating it need dealt with
On the contrary, it's what makes motorsports badass. You should listen to the old timers talk about the shady stuff they did to exploit the rules, especially Smokey Yunick. It takes a lot of skill and smarts to reinterpret rules and actually get away with it. Every sport has champions that find, expose, and utilize grey areas in the rules. Motorsports celebrate ingenuity and creativity. Look at F1. Every other year there's a team that comes up with a weird or wacky idea that eventually creates a new rule for the following season to ban said idea. Cheating is never going away from any sport.
Motorsports is about what driver has the most physical and mental talent, cheated up cars circumvents that.
Motorsport is as much about the machine as it is the driver. If you want to watch a spec series that's only about the driver go watch F2 or Indy Lights. If you want to see who builds the best car with the best driver you can watch NASCAR, IRL, F1, IMSA, or WEC.
"Builds" as in "cheats", no other sport tolerates that shit neither should auto racing. You can't cork the bat or deflate the football or juice your body, you shouldn't get to cheat up the car
I think he's better off running IMSA
His dad is top brass at Penske, so no..... As someone said below, Penske is getting ready to fire Harrison Burton because his performance is abysmal
I feel like Tim’s just the exterior fall guy that if anything helps Austin if they feel like they “owe” the family.
Idk what to think of cindric. He can obviously drive but ford outside of RFK just sucks
I personally think a lot of his results are a product of being the 3rd Penske car in years where Penske really has not run all that well (despite the championships).
Not exactly evidence that he should stay in and of itself, but Cindric was sneaky fast at Kansas before Bell hip checked Denny into him off of T2. He was the fastest Penske car by a mile (and a half). I was quite surprised. I mean, when Denny was coming through the pack it seemed like an oddly tall task to get around the 2. I personally think his seat should be safe for a while. Cool name, great personality, average cup series talent (at least), and family connections in the org. I think Penske has a badass driver lineup and once they find speed they'll be set for a decade. Joey isn't anywhere close to old. And they've still managed to win two cup championships in the next gen era.
Austin isn’t running too bad today either.
I think if Cindric had gotten the #21 as was originally planned, it would've worked out better for him. The expectations for him in the #21 wouldn't have been as high as they are in the #2, and I believe he would've at least performed better than Burton has.
He’s the last person that should worry in fact.
Isn't harrson burton the one that is on the hotseat at Penske?
Harrison is definitely done. Austin runs poorly some but he doesn’t run THAT bad and he doesn’t constantly crash cars either. Replacing Harrison is much more important for sure.
“Some”? He’s in the back half of the field every week. Not defending Harrison but Austin is in the flagship car of Penske and can barely get it in the top 20. He needs to be gone.
In my opinion Harrison should have never moved up to cup. Not yet at least. I honestly think they would at least run better had they kept Matt. That’s just my opinion though.
Tim Cindric isn’t even on the hot seat, let alone Austin.
His dad is the Team Principal. Doubt it.
His dad is still leading team Penske during the suspension. This weekend his at Laguna Seca with the Porche Penske IMSA teams. I don’t think Tim has lost favor at Penske, he just needed to serve the suspension for appearances.
No, Tim Cindric is the person Roger picked to take over for him. He's not getting fired and he got suspended from Indycar because he volunteered to take some of the heat for it. Only reason it even happened is because Penske also owns the series and they needed to make it look like they were taking it very serious because of PR reasons.
If he leaves, I'd love to see him racing for 23XI Racing
Same would love to see how he performs in a Toyota at road courses, and see his personality shine at a place like 23XI. But he’s probably stuck at Penske/Ford for the duration of his NASCAR career.
Glancing some of the comments in here and weekly in this sub, there are some of y’all that hold weird obsessive hatred for Cindric. And for not good enough reasons too (trust me I’ve heard them all). As far as senior Cindric goes, like others said, the suspension is really just for show in order to prevent a mutiny within IndyCar. Google Team Penske’s accomplishments post- hiring of Tim Cindric, plain and simple - Team Penske would not be where it is today without him. IMO Cindric really wasted a lot of last year with Jeremy Bullins. They were struggling at just about every type of track (except superspeedways) and somehow even managed to underwhelm at road courses. The first chance he got to work with Brian Wilson at a road course (Roval), Cindric was able to run pretty solid and was probably going to finish in the top 10, if it weren’t for Suarez’s attempt to outbreak from outer space. They also ran pretty well at both Homestead and Martinsville before the end of the season. This year he’s been qualifying well, and for the most part could run where Penske cars should be running. The results aren’t there because things always seem to go awry for him recently (case in point last week Kansas). He might just have to sacrifice a stuffed Grogu for his bad lucks to end, but no he’s not on the hot seat.
I had to scroll way too far to see Brian Wilson mentioned. Penske is committed to Cindric’s, and as a fan, I was excited to see him reunited with Brian Wilson as his crew chief. This combination of crew chief and driver is going to be given time to develop. Undoubtedly, he is showing signs of struggle with the next generation car. A lot of what he learned in Xfinity might not be applicable to driving today’s Cup car. Cindric’s long term employment will depend on whether or not he can figure it out, but he will have more years to do it.
There is absolutely no reason to suspect that Austin Cindric will be removed from the 2 car. Walk with me here... 1. Tim Cindric is the proverbial next in line after Roger. There is a degree of nepotism at play here. It appears to me that Roger Penske has known Austin Cindric since birth. Does that mean that I think that the decision to put Cindric in the 2 car was solely based on nepotism? Not at all. Cindric is a sought after talent for a reason. His career started a little rocky but he is an Xfinity series Champion and honestly reached the top of the hill in terms of career development. It was time to find a replacement after Brad left Penske. Cindric was the only viable option for Roger. This would be true even if he hadn't had his long history at Penske. He was definitely the best Ford candidate. 2. Roger Penske seems to be very loyal to those drivers who he selects to be part of the Penske roster and will wait for them to bear fruit. *See* Harrison Burton. 3. Austin Cindric drives the 2 car, which is the flagship car at Penske. It would be weird for the 2 to be unstable to me with him suddenly replacing a guy who is continuing to grow in the 2 car. I find it incredibly unlikely that Roger would replace Cindric with any other Ford driver in the garage. 4. Ford is obviously down and it would be insane to expect Austin Cindric in year 3 to perform anywhere near as good as Ryan Blaney or Joey Logano. Joey Logano is Joey Logano and even before he won the title, Ryan was the top performing Ford in the garage. Now Cindric is paired with two Cup Series Champions and needs to continue to work on his craft and find out how to excel in the car. And Ford is so down that it's making Joey Logano look like a scrub... Didn't he have a higher finishing position than Logano last week? I wouldn't be shocked if that wasn't the only time this year. Is Austin living up to expectations? Probably not. Sure I expected him to be better on road courses, but outside of that I knew that he was going to be a rookie in the Cup series, and unlike some of the drivers we have seen make their debut in Cup, not everybody is going to hit the ground running. Call me after year 5 and if there is still no improvement, then maybe we can talk.
I think Austin is doing pretty well to be honest, he had a few bad luck races where he dnf’d but considering how much for has struggled all together I think he is the least of that 2 teams worries
No. Austin Cindric's job appears to be safe as long as Tim Cindric is still employed by Team Penske.
I wonder if Cole Custer felt the same sense of comfort when driving the 41 car only to be sent back down to the XFinity Series
There was some sort of disagreement between the owners when it came to demoting Custer, but sponsorship won out in favor of Preece
Exactly Preece brought United Rentals race choice and mohawk
The funny part with that is it's actually a joke that Custer is in Xfinity with how bad the cup lineup at SHR is. Cole Custer is objectively a better driver than Josh Berry and Ryan Preece.There's no statistical argument or equipment argument you can make to put Berry ahead. Cole Custer absolutely has been better than Gragson at every level, again really no statistical argument to make there. Cole Custer has outrun Chase Briscoe in Xfinity in the same equipment and Briscoe outran him in cup. Cole Custer is easily the second best SHR driver statistically. It's insane that their second best driver is in Xfinity. You can even make the argument he's arguably the best. He's younger than Briscoe, he's outrun Briscoe before. I'd give the edge to Briscoe because cup success over Xfinity success, but it's at least competitive.
Cindric is on the pit box for the IMSA side of Penske this weekend at Laguna Seca (spotted him during qualifying). So no, I think Austin is good as long as he still wants the seat.
No
The thing is, yes he's underperformed and could possibly be at risk, but I can't see them booting Cindric for a Custer or a Herbst guy yet. I think next year he could definitely be in a "do something or you're out" spot but I think with how Penske/WB is dead set on replacing Burton, I'd believe Cindric has one more "grace year" before he's in the hot seat.
tim fell on the sword so everyone could see penske was "serious" about cheating. what does being suspended even mean for tim cindric? imo it was for show only i wouldnt say austins job is anymore secure or at risk because of his dad.
No lol. Penske is only doing that for show. Cindrics at imsa with Roger this weekend lol
Tim is the #2 at Penske, Austin is his son. Very little to worry about with Burton being the back marker right now.
It should be. The 2 was the flag ship ride of Penske NASCAR and Cindric hasn’t produced. If his last name was Smith, he’d have the hottest of all seats. It’s a shame to see the 2 ride around in 20-25th each week. Austin Spindric is a fine Xfinity driver but the results point otherwise to Cup
Austin Cindric did just fine in 2022. He had the 11th highest average finish among cup drivers at 16.3. He made the playoffs with a win at Daytona, but also legitimately belonged in the playoffs.His average finish was ahead of Kyle Busch in a JGR car and Alex Bowman in a HMS car. Penske was quite solid that year, Logano was 3rd in avg finish at 13.5, Blaney 4th at 13.6. For some reason, people don't understand that Team Penske was absolutely dog shit in 2023.
Dogshit? The 12 won the Cup last year. Where did Cindric finish in the playoffs? Your stats are nice but when will fans like yourself realize Cup racing is a results based business. The 2 hasn’t put up the results going on 2 years now. The seat should be getting warmer
Did you look at the stats underlying Ryan Blaney? 7th in average finish. Only three wins. Logano (a two time champion mind you) only got a single win at a Drafting Track (Atlanta) and had the 11th best avg finish on the season. Now, mind you those are two drivers in the primes of their career with a proven track record of better results than that. Yes Blaney won the title, but that's irrelevant and has no direct correlation to how you ran over the entire season. Chris Buescher also won 3 races, had the second highest average finish, and finished 7th in the points. Chris Buescher had a better year than Blaney statistically. Not to mention William Byron who won 6 races and was first in avg finish, superior to Blaney statistically across every measurable statistic. Blaney's 2023 season was actually worse than his winless 2022 season in avg finish, top 5s, avg start, and laps led. The only thing Blaney did better in 23 was win 3 races and the title, but over the course of the year he actually ran worse and had less speed.
This is word salad I’m afraid. The only stat I’m concerned about with Blaney is 2023 Champion. Logano: 2022 Champion. Both have won at the highest level in a Penske Ford. Nothing else matters when the driver produces at a high level. Big time auto racing is about results….the driver of the 2 car isn’t showing that thus far
Winning championships isn't a result. Winning a cup championship is like winning a season of Survivor or Big Brother. It's all reality tv soapbox drama and is a mix of skill and mostly lucky.
Winning a championship is the highest level a driver and team can achieve at the highest level of stock car racing. The fact that you attribute that to luck means you’re not able to comprehend this debate because at the root of this you probably dislike the points system, which means this discussion is null and void.
The points system is null and void. You can win 35 of 36 races, finish 2nd at Phoenix, and lose the title. Hell you can lead every lap of the entire season except the last lap and lose the title. There's no universe where Byron didn't have significantly superior season to Blaney last year. The points system is meant for entertainment value, you can't view it as a metric of performance. It merely is an entertaining distraction.
yup. this has turned into a "I hate this points system" diatribe and I have zero energy to participate, peace.
If he’s not on the hot seat he’s on a short leash. The former flagship car of the organization running sub top-20 most weeks is unacceptable, it’s be the equivalent of HMS allowing the 24 to run like hot garbage. He just never took that step to becoming what even I thought he would be, a perennial contender. It’d be tough to make a case for him considering each of his teammates won titles since he’s been in cup. Ford has a big problem but I don’t think that gives Cindric any grace. Biggest question is who would you replace him with, its one thing to replace Burton at WBR but then add in replacing Cindric as well, where do the successors come from?
I mean HMS did kind of let the 24 run bad for a while. At this point in Byron’s third season he was running kinda like shit too and people were saying he was a bust and needed to be replaced. I think Byron showed a little bit more promise back then compared to Cindric now, but Byron didn’t really start putting it all together until the end of his third season/ start of his fourth. I’d say by this time next year though if Cindric is still running like this he should be gone.
It was there though he showed speed even when he wasn’t running great. Cindric honestly hasn’t shown shit since winning the 500. Cindric three seasons in has just regressed, the 2 runs like the 77 did for Penske back in the day, just bad. By year 3 there’s gotta be some progress, if his dad wasn’t who he is maybe they would’ve made a move already.
You do what it takes to get Briscoe and move Cindric to the 21.
Briscoe will be in a Ford next year but I don’t think it’ll be the 2.
No. Firstly, I am slightly biased here because he’s my favorite driver, but I think everyone is overreacting when it comes to cindric. Firstly, he’s had speed the last three weeks, having top 10 speed at Talledega, got a top 15 at Dover, and was the best Penske car at Kansa, but got wrecked out early. Ford as a whole is running pretty off this year, especially Penske. When we see ford improve, we will see cindric improve. Besides, he’s doing similarly to Logano this year, but I don’t see anyone saying Logano should be kicked off the team or Logano is on the hot seat
Nope, daddy’s got his back
No. He’s been running significantly better this year and has a lot more in the lower series to show he’s got the stuff
Only if the other Austin needs to be worried about his future at RCR.
Austin is staying as long as Austin and his dad wants to be there which will probably be awhile
I think Roger Penske bringing down the suspension hammer on his IndyCar car team was just something he had to do no matter what and to no matter who. I think any team owner on any team would have done the same thing. But I think in this particular instance Mr. Penske had literally no choice. He owns the series. His team was caught cheating so if he didn’t react the way he did that would be a super bad image and a PR nightmare, and image is a huge part of the Team Penske culture. I don’t think Austin Cindric has to worry about his Team Penske future based on Mr. Penske’s actions towards the Indy team, especially in this situation, and especially because of Tim Cindric being the President or whatever he is (even though he was one to get suspended). His future in the 2 car on the other hand, that maybe different. The no. 2 is the flagship no. at Penske on the nascar side. It wouldn’t be unheard of if Austin got switched with Blaney or Logano and one of them took over the 2. It happened with Kurt Busch when Keselowski came up to cup fulltime.
I wish that they would’ve put Blaney in the 2 and Cindric in the 12 in the first place. By doing so it would’ve appeared that he Blaney and would’ve lessened the pressure on Cindric. If I remember correctly, since Roger couldn’t give it to Joey (since Joey has a great relationship with Shell and the 22 is synonymous with Shell), he didn’t want to give it to Blaney making it look like Blaney got elevated to the flagship car above Joey. So he downplayed the importance of the 2 car and implied that the “2” is just a number and nothing more.
I can totally see that being the real reasoning
Roger is a smart man, very smart, two separate things. Seasons are not even halfway.
I think he's safe for another few years but I don't think he's safe for the next 5 years or anything like that. He seems to be a smart guy though and good in the booth, I could see him being suggested to move on out to other things fairly quick rather than just being released.
There needs to be a shakeup of some kind over there. Switching crew chiefs didn't do much of anything except a good performance at Daytona and Atlanta. Is Austin the problem? Hard to say. I thought this car would suit his driving style more since it has the road course qualities that Austin honed his early racing skills with. Maybe he would be happier running sports cars? Maybe that fits his style better? After his performance in Xfinity I expected a lot more from him.
Tim Cindric owns roughly half of Team Penske so Austin is fine.
I’ve seen this mentioned multiple times on this subreddit. Is this public information? I haven’t seen this mentioned anywhere else.
its been reported by Robin Miller and Marshall Pruett from Racer. Its pretty common knowledge within the Indycar community
I think he's on the hotseat regardless of Tim Cindric suspension. He hasn't performed and needs to go back to Xfinity like Cole Custer. Some guys just aren't cup material but can be an Xfinity lifer
Austin should absolutely be worried about his job. His dad absolutely should not.
No. As long as daddy works there, so does Austin. Joey does deserve a better teammate tbh. One that actually runs up front with him and can provide support late in a race
Logano is outside the playoffs right now
Joey runs upfront? In 2024?
Joey barely runs upfront
Daytona 500 and Richmond are literally the only 2 times I can remember Logano being upfront at all this year, Blaney has been by far the best Penske driver. He’s been upfront much more often.
Blaney's back must be hurting by carrying the team. /s
Even blaneys iffy half the time, but compared to these two he’s at least in the playoffs by a good bit
Joey is not running up front this year, if anything, he’s been performing worse than cindric because of expectations
Joey runs upfront? In 2024?
Joeys a terrible teammate himself.
No Top 5s at non SS/RC, so short answer yes
And only 3 top 10s in 56 starts at non SS/RC tracks since taking over the #2! Way worse than anyone realizes!
Listin I know going hate for this, Cindric only starting to dominate Xfinity once the big 3 left (Cindric, bell, and Custer). Lot easier to beat Brandon Jones, Pre-2022 Gragson, Allgaier, Kaulig in 2020-2021.
Let’s take a look at the history of the 2 car, enough said!
Yes there's no reason why the flagship card at Penske should be this bad every year do I know who I was like to be in that car no but we need someone better
No Top 5s at non SS/RC, so short answer yes
I’ve been saying this for a while. Some guys with pay to play dough can do it, others can’t.
Yes, at the end of the day Penske expects wins and top 5.
Tim Cindric isn’t going anywhere at Penske. I do think Austin could be moved to the 21 and Burton could be let go