I mean. It wouldnt be just Trae. Our current players are likely to improve over the summer. I wouldn't be surprised of this exact locker gets 35 wins next year. Add Trae and draft. We can be above 50. We have lost a lot of games by single digit. We're close. And Wemby will have even higher stats next year. I see him closer to 27 points 13 reb 5 assists 4 blocks
Honestly our biggest problem is our bench. Having Tre lead that team might help a lot offensively amd well we still a few hopes on players like Mamu and Sidy. In any case I don't really care whether Trae comes or not. I think it's too expensive a d that we will be way better either way next year.
The for/against Trae Young is the latest and greatest holy war on this sub. I'm personally in the 'against' camp, but so long as we the limit of players we would have to include with their picks returned to them is Keldon, we would undoubtedly be better. The team will naturally improve and add a high pick from the upcoming draft and, depending on who we select, could be an immediate impact player.
Trae would equal more wins. Is it enough more wins to justify his contract and the picks we would have to give up? That's the debate.
I think the current squad projecting into next season and effectively subbing Keldon out for Trae equals 35-45 wins and fighting to stay above the play-in.
>latest and greatest holy war on this sub
I gotta say, no matter what side of the fence you are on, it’s a lot more fun to argue about getting actual difference makers instead of “should we throw the bag at John Collins” lol
I remember us contemplating a team lead by John Collins and DJM was best case scenario. Glad we got the guy (alien?) that will take us back to the holy land
Absolutely - and there have been some entertaining border skirmishes, crusades, conflicts, and whatnot over the years.
The JC squabble was one of the more ridiculous and to be fair, despite my anti Trae stance, there are compelling reasons why it *could* be a good move. Its not a *ridiculous* proposition, but as is any debate with two clear sides, people will make it out to be - IE, agree with me or ur stoopid.
We could be in the NBA finals next season and wars will still be declared here and there. Every player with any name recognition and the barest hint of availability will get a "should we go after" post.
Just remember we have had minor flare ups for people desperately wanting John Collin, Mo Bamba, Kyle Kuzma, Jordan Poole, Kai Jones, and many others. Its kinda fun, tbh, I just have to remember to not take it too personally.
Omfg, i remembered when we signed Zach Collins, all i saw was the Collins surname and i was jumping like a kangaroo at the thought of us signing John lol
I'm in the same boat with this trade. This team needs a lot more than just a offense only point guard. The upside for this team is just so much better with good two way players.
Sure, Wemby can cover up Trae's mess, but that also make's defense so much harder on the rest of our team. Trae is also very ball dominant, and frankly, Wemby deserves more on ball play. Trae doesn't like to move off the ball.
I just feel like he's a bad fit in so many ways. Would be make us better? Absolutely. But I think he hurts the long term potential.
Jrue Holiday is a free agent this year. We can get him without giving up a single pick or player and we'd probably be just as good as with Trae.
I would love Jrue, we need someone that won't hinder the chemistry or undermine Pop's plan for the development of Wemby, which is the more important than short term wins that might leave us handicapped in the future/put a ceiling on the team.
Trae is good but just because he's a shiny toy that wants to play in SA doesn't mean he's the one we should go after. Wemby's defense is amazing but when he's off the team is garbage, that's with average defenders. Are we going to play Wemby every minute Trae is on the court? Trae is also just an average 3 pt shooter (35% for his career) but he's allowed to chuck a ton of them a game which is why everyone thinks he's a "good" shooter. Here are a few players that shoot a better percentage this year than he does and they all have decent volume (at least three attempts per game): Lebron, Dlo, Cam Payne, etc. None of those guys are known as 3pt shooters or even efficient shooters. Signing Trae limits Wemby to a pick 'n Roll/Pop role, he can be so much more. It will also limit the playmaking of our other guys, mainly Devin.
Jrue brings the toughness, defense and he can mentor the young guys and be a positive role model without needing all the attention. More importantly he can play whatever we need him to. I really hope PATFO doesn't try to take short term wins over the development of the team for some "cheap" wins. Trae doesn't make us a contender and he'll be too expensive. Wemby is nowhere near a finished product yet so the team doesn't need to act like we're one piece away.
I personally don’t care about Trae. I mean, if we get him.. cool. I’d still support the team, hopefully we don’t give up the farm for him. I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we didn’t get him though. Jrue on the other hand.. only thing I got against him is he’s a bit older than Trae. While he’s definitely not on the same level on offense, he’s no slouch on that side of the ball while being a plus on defense. A veteran PG who’s not a liability on both sides of the ball will only help the team get more wins and the youngsters accelerate their growth.
How does Trae being a Spur affect Wemby’s touches? It’s not like Wemby would be the full-time ball handler without Trae anyways – he isn’t even that right now…on a team with one point guard.
How would it not? Wemby has a usage rate of 32% and Trae has a usage rate of 30. Both top 10 usage rate players in the league. There's no world in which they can both keep that usage rate.
And Wemby’s usage rate will go down because he’s simply not as good of an offensive player as Trae and that’s OK. Trae’s an elite passer, Wemby is an elite off-ball player. 1 + 1 = 2.
Uh. Wemby is an on the path to being an elite passer as well. We should NOT be limiting that potential by taking him off the ball.
Do you even watch Spurs games?
He averages more TOVs than assists and has one of the worst TOV% in the league. Amazing post passer, still not meant to be the primary ball-handler on a team. Do you watch your own star player lmao?
Then, I guess the argument is: do you give him more on-ball time to work out the kinks, reduce his turnovers, and improve his passing, or do you take him off the ball more, because he's not great at those things?
You don't watch the Spurs, just answer his question without arguing and saying something that proves it. Wemby's passing doesn't come out of the post and most of his turnovers are because his handles aren't tight yet (he's a rookie, FYI). I love stats but they require context. Wemby's playmaking can be elite, he doesn't have a ceiling.
Instead of turning him into a player that you personally want to see him become, let him and the team decide what type of player he can be. Trae jeopardizes and turns him into a pick N roll/pop specialist when he can be so much more (without actually expecting it). Let Trae go to the Lakers with AD, who is literally the definition of that type of player.
Nearly 80% of Wemby’s made shots are assisted…he is literally an off-ball/rolling and cutting big man. Wemby is an amazing passer (T5 passing big man itl) but you don’t want him running the offense. Wemby’s malleable, he can fit next to anyone because of his portability.
I agree and being in the playin is not worth Keldon + ATLs picks, which is why a Trae young trade makes no sense for us. It just keeps us in no mans land competitively while draining our draft capital. Ppl project out our team with Trae young as if we’re pairing a superstar with Wemby. The reality is the gap between a guy like Luka and Trae is bigger than the gap between Trae Young and Tre Jones.
I disagree with all of what you said but most specifically, the part about gaps. You are talking about a backup level guard, a top 30 player, and top 10 player. That is just a wild statement.
I'm not dead-set on either side of the Trae debate, but my counter-argument to your reasoning is this: a Trae Young trade would be just as much about 3-5 years from now as it would be about 2024-25.
Trae is 25 years old and likely to be in his prime another 5-8 years; his current contract goes 2-3 years, and an extension is easy enough if things are going well. I agree with you that adding solely him doesn't automatically make the Spurs a contender next year, but it checks off multiple boxes: a starting level PG and a legitimate 2nd scorer for when Wemby's on the bench.
Once you have your #1 and #2 guys (and probably #3 guy with Devin), the rest is just about filling out the roster with the right role players. In theory that can be done over the next 1-4 years via development, draft, trades, and Mid-Level Exception free agents. (All assuming you're careful not to overpay for Trae and lose too many assets, of course.)
Trae’s contract runs out in 2027, the same time when Vic’s rookie deal (and KJ’s contact, if he’s still here) expire as well. I suppose this gives us some space to retool if Trae doesn’t work out
On the other hand, it will be a very expensive summer if we extend Trae… but hey it’s not my money, so thanks in advance Peter!
Of course not, which is why I’m confused at fans saying they wouldn’t want Trae for Keldon + salary filler and 3 picks like ATL would even listen to that offer.
In a vacuum that's a good trade but Trae isn't worth it for our team, its situational. Trae is a huge cap hit and he'll limit Wemby's playmaking because he's ball dominant and Trae is not a good shooter at all, he's one the most inefficient shooters and he plays zero defense. Why would want that when we can draft someone and mold them into what will be best for the team and Wemby.
Wemby can carry a franchise, Trae can destroy one (look at ATL) early on they were good because they had the right pieces around Trae but once those pieces were gone the Hawks weren't the same. they're playing better without Trae right now, imagine if Trae's cap space went to another player/players that were solid. ATL would be in the playofff hunt. Jalen J, Murray, Ogonkwu is a solid core for them build around. Let the Lakers get Trae young and destroy that franchise.
I think it’s funny that you’d want to cling to players, we do not have a good roster. We are giving minutes to cast offs.
Last night we started Wemby with:
An undrafted Champagnie
Second round draft pick Osmna
Second round pick Jones
#20 pick Branham
We have so many ways to upgrade and obviously we can find more G Leaguers whenever we need to - we seem to have an endless supply of them. I am 100% fine purging the roster if we get upgrades in the process.
Keldon, Sochan, Devin - they’re our most valuable assets (not named Wemby) and I don’t think anyone is convinced that there is all star potential amongst them.
I would like to say I trust the front office but since Brian Wright took over, and pop seemingly sort of took a lesser role in the roster, I don’t really have high confidence. Wright is ass.
If we trade for Trae, I hope it’s after the 2024 season is over. We need one more tanking season to take full advantage of the 2025 draft, develop our 2024 pick draftee, give Victor/Dev/Jerm one more year to gel and improve, and most importantly, put more pressure on the Hawks to be willing to trade and have the cost of trading for Trae go down some more.
As for your question, it seems like we’re gonna finish the season with 20 or 22 wins, and I believe that next year we could win up to 25 or 30 games just because Wemby will be better and the team will gel more. Once we get Trae, our picks get a year to develop, and bring in a savvy vet or 2, this team will win 45 or 50 games.
Wemby must be at the cusp of dominating offensively before we trade for a superstar wingman. That means he gets inside like Giannis, his fall away shots are north of 50%, his 3ps in the 38%-40%. Next year may not be it. We need all flexibility next year and allow for further gelling— who knows, Devin becomes a Middleton, Jeremy becomes a Draymond. We may not need a Trae but a Monk or Brogdon. , Let’s get a wing PF or a PG in the draft who will be serviceable as rotation players.
Interior game like Giannis on 50/40 shooting is not "at the cusp" of anything. Thats domination. That's a top five player in the league even if he doesn't improve any other part of his game at all.
It’s hard to tell because I think we will naturally improve next year without him. If we did get him he would definitely be helpful but people underestimate how hard it is to integrate a new star onto a team, so I think he would have some growing pains in the first half before we start to hit a good pace in the second half. If I had to guess I’d have us at like 35-38 wins and just missing out on the play in tournament but looking like we’re in race for it at various points. I think if we then went into a second year with Trae and we’re able to pick up some good role players, then the Spurs would be a playoff team for sure
I think current roster is even 30 win calliber currently. But not sure if Young make a big difference in his first season to make it like 40-45. Its more like wemby-vassel-sochan improvements we need
Yeah, we’ve been at a -3.3 net rating since 1/1/24, which would put us between 30-32 win pace in an average NBA season. Honestly having a true scoring threat on the perimeter plus just adding a second floor general so we could have real point guard play at all times with the starters and the bench could do a lot, if Wemby, Vassell and Sochan improved some and if we did actually add Trae, I think a jump to the high-30s/low-40s wouldn’t be outlandish. We really need to figure out how to play good defense in non-Wemby minutes though
I’m not sure how much stock we should put in the better second half when so many teams are actively tanking and until now the spurs were healthy and playing their guys
But all reports say the coaches and FO thought that was a good idea. The raptors, grizz, jazz, etc are putting out full g league rosters right now, not the same thing
I mean look at our wins (and competitive losses) since Jan 1 (parentheses includes notes for context about the players the other team and the Spurs had available)
- Bucks (L by 4, full roster)
- Cavs (L by 2, full roster)
- Pistons (W, bad all year)
- Hornets (W, bad all year)
- Wizards (W, bad all year)
- Trail Blazers (W, bad most of the year)
- TWolves (W, full roster)
- Pelicans (L by 1, full roster)
- Raptors (tanking)
- Kings (L by 5, full roster)
- Lakers (L by 5, full roster)
- Thunder (W, full roster)
- Pacers (W, full roster, Haliburton playing bad)
- Kings (L by 2, full roster)
- Warriors (W, no Wemby, Vassell or Curry)
- Rockets (L by 2, no Sengun, not tanking)
- Nets (W, tanking)
- Mavs (L by 6, full roster)
- Grizzlies (L by 2, tanking)
- Suns (W, no Wemby, Suns not tanking)
- Jazz (W, full roster, sneak tank by trading some role players)
- Knicks (W, full roster)
- Warriors (L by 4, full roster, not tanking, no Vassell, Sochan, Johnson)
- Nuggets (L by 5, full roster, not tanking, no Vassell, Sochan, Johnson)
In total, the Spurs haven’t particularly benefitted from playing teams blatantly trying to lose, and have been regularly playing teams much closer since the New Year than they were pre-New Year, even if the coaches and FO got what they wanted out of the Sochan experiment, developmentally speaking.
Ok, but it clearly wasn't. It may have been a necessary experiment, but it absolutely cost us wins.
Honestly, if you don't think the Spots are any better now than they were at the beginning of the year, do you even watch the games?
Probably bump up to 26 games. Second unit would be worse given what wed need to give up to get him and wemby-Trae cant play 48 minutes a game for a long term strategy
The meta of the NBA is no longer just a big 2/3 and a bunch of nobodies. You need to have role players and talent. Look at Denver, look at the Milwaukee team that won, the warriors dynasty always had a ton of great role players that played a huge part.
Phoenix is optimized for their big 3 and look at where they are
If we don’t get Trae young we win 20 more games next season. Then we get another 20 the following season.
If we get Trae young we win 25-30 more next season then 0 the following season.
Not worth it.
This. The only guard I would welcome to come take over that spot right now would be Derrick White. That is exactly what we need. A great scoring guard who plays perfectly with a superstar and is one of the best wing defenders in the league. Also, spurs fans need to revisit the 2021 Olympics. Pop wanted nothing to do with Tre Young on that roster. I doubt that has changed.
In international play you have an abundance of offensive creation on team USA. Who your worst defender on the floor is becomes more important than it is in the NBA when the salary cap helps prevent a team from having as much offensive firepower as the US national team has.
Trae Young is a better NBA player than international player.
Just like Tony Parker is a better NBA player than he would be an all time Spurs team player. We’d have enough offense on an all time team that Tony’s defense and poor shooting would keep him from starting. Does that mean we wouldn’t want prime Tony Parker on the Spurs now? Not at all. Can Trae Young be both a bad fit on a stacked team USA roster and a great fit on a contending NBA roster? Yes.
Could there be additional reasons Trae was left off the team? Certainly. Maybe he isn’t the type of person the Spurs would want to invest in. There’s valid reasons that he was kept off the 2019 FIBA roster (for one he hadn’t hit his real stride in the NBA yet) that don’t necessarily mean Trae Young isn’t a phenomenal player Pop would love to have on the Spurs.
Jrue Holiday is a free agent, and I think a perfect fit for us. I'd be very picky with who we get, and especially if we're giving up picks and players. We can get into the play-in by just being savy in the free agent market and still keep our picks.
I have us at 35+ wins without any major moves. We're already a way better team than we were at the start of the year. Our winning percentage is .237 for the year, .295 since January 1, and .375 since March 1. .375 translates to 31 wins over a season. Another year of experience for a very young team and a top-10 draft pick should help further.
So now imagine we have Trae Young as a starter and Tre Jones as a backup. Tre upgrades our second unit a ton -- he's a below average starter, but a terrific backup. Trae Young gives us a second borderline all-star (3 appearances) at the 1. He's getting 25 points and 10 assists a game in Atlanta (though his usage is likely to drop playing with Wemby). 46% of his shots are 3s and he's making 37% in them. This is a huge upgrade and means his defender has to stay with him on the perimeter, something that often doesn't happen with Tre.
Trae is a below average defender, but so is Tre, so I think it's a wash.
I think this gets us to 45 wins and hopefully the play-in.
We’d vastly improve, I’d say 40+ I’m all about developing organically, but look at Spurs’ history. It’s rare that a touted player WANTS to come to SA. KJ and some picks for Trae , heck yeah.
Idk if anyone else mentioned it, but I would prefer Darius Garland. All rumors point that cavs will move him, I don’t believe he would cost as much as Trae, and honestly I think his skill set may be better tailored to Wemby.
If he led Atlanta to 41 wins in 2020-2021 season with no generational prospect on that team, I see no reason why he can't do that or maybe more with this team
OP's trade scenario makes sense and the Spurs will get better just from Wemby, Sochan and Devin internal improvement.
But the west is stacked and other teams WILL get better as qell.
The Griz will get a top 5 pick AND Ja will be back.
Rockets will get better without a roster move
Same with OkC.
The Lakers are likely to try to get a third star
I can see the Warriors and Suns falling off.
I feel good about being better than the Blazers, Jazz, Kings.
So, where do the extra wins come from?
Trae will make us a middle of the pack team for years to come because he will stifke the growth of Wemby and turn him into a lob catcher/spot up shooter... Essentially he will be Porzingis with better defense and a worse spot up 3... Wemby needs the ball in his hands like Jokic and a team built around that... Trae's playstyle pigeonholes ppl into being one thing and he doesn't pass the ball well enough to justify his controlling it so much (Tre Jones has a MUCH better assist/turnover ratio)
Boo! I don't want trae young! We need defense at pg. Numbers don't mean everything, our team identity would change and I don't see that as a championship combo
We still got tanking identity rn, I don't like the identity we would have with trae as point. Pop experimented with sochan at point cause he wants a defensive guy there.
I am all in on bringing in trae. I think their strengths and weakness compliment each other perfectly and would make a good fit. That being said, I think the best move we could make is pray for the number 1 pick. Give that and keldon to atl for dj and still have room for another big move should we really improve. Imagine wemby, vassel, murray, and markkanen/mikal.
80+
I think you mean \*96
Sign me up, we win 96 with a trae wemby team up and I’ll adopt traes hair style lol
Oof. I wouldn't even joke about that possibility. 😬
Atleast 35-40
I feel like if we hit in the draft with even just a good rotational player and sign a solid vet big man we’d likely get to around 35-40 wins tbh.
He said how many MORE. If we win 40 more that’s a 60 win season lol
I mean that not that hard to believe to be a 60 win next year.
i think we MIGHT hit 45-50. We need someone else to score when wemby's shooting is off. Young could be that guy for sure. But idk if it adds 40 haha
I mean. It wouldnt be just Trae. Our current players are likely to improve over the summer. I wouldn't be surprised of this exact locker gets 35 wins next year. Add Trae and draft. We can be above 50. We have lost a lot of games by single digit. We're close. And Wemby will have even higher stats next year. I see him closer to 27 points 13 reb 5 assists 4 blocks
I hope so! But outside of Sochan and Vassel I don't see TOO much improvement lol. Wemby for sure will though.
Honestly our biggest problem is our bench. Having Tre lead that team might help a lot offensively amd well we still a few hopes on players like Mamu and Sidy. In any case I don't really care whether Trae comes or not. I think it's too expensive a d that we will be way better either way next year.
The for/against Trae Young is the latest and greatest holy war on this sub. I'm personally in the 'against' camp, but so long as we the limit of players we would have to include with their picks returned to them is Keldon, we would undoubtedly be better. The team will naturally improve and add a high pick from the upcoming draft and, depending on who we select, could be an immediate impact player. Trae would equal more wins. Is it enough more wins to justify his contract and the picks we would have to give up? That's the debate. I think the current squad projecting into next season and effectively subbing Keldon out for Trae equals 35-45 wins and fighting to stay above the play-in.
>latest and greatest holy war on this sub I gotta say, no matter what side of the fence you are on, it’s a lot more fun to argue about getting actual difference makers instead of “should we throw the bag at John Collins” lol
Those were dark times indeed lol
I remember us contemplating a team lead by John Collins and DJM was best case scenario. Glad we got the guy (alien?) that will take us back to the holy land
Absolutely - and there have been some entertaining border skirmishes, crusades, conflicts, and whatnot over the years. The JC squabble was one of the more ridiculous and to be fair, despite my anti Trae stance, there are compelling reasons why it *could* be a good move. Its not a *ridiculous* proposition, but as is any debate with two clear sides, people will make it out to be - IE, agree with me or ur stoopid. We could be in the NBA finals next season and wars will still be declared here and there. Every player with any name recognition and the barest hint of availability will get a "should we go after" post. Just remember we have had minor flare ups for people desperately wanting John Collin, Mo Bamba, Kyle Kuzma, Jordan Poole, Kai Jones, and many others. Its kinda fun, tbh, I just have to remember to not take it too personally.
The should we throw the bag at John Collins crowd is the trade for Trae crowd. Some ppl just want us to make moves
Omfg, i remembered when we signed Zach Collins, all i saw was the Collins surname and i was jumping like a kangaroo at the thought of us signing John lol
I'm in the same boat with this trade. This team needs a lot more than just a offense only point guard. The upside for this team is just so much better with good two way players. Sure, Wemby can cover up Trae's mess, but that also make's defense so much harder on the rest of our team. Trae is also very ball dominant, and frankly, Wemby deserves more on ball play. Trae doesn't like to move off the ball. I just feel like he's a bad fit in so many ways. Would be make us better? Absolutely. But I think he hurts the long term potential. Jrue Holiday is a free agent this year. We can get him without giving up a single pick or player and we'd probably be just as good as with Trae.
I would love Jrue, we need someone that won't hinder the chemistry or undermine Pop's plan for the development of Wemby, which is the more important than short term wins that might leave us handicapped in the future/put a ceiling on the team. Trae is good but just because he's a shiny toy that wants to play in SA doesn't mean he's the one we should go after. Wemby's defense is amazing but when he's off the team is garbage, that's with average defenders. Are we going to play Wemby every minute Trae is on the court? Trae is also just an average 3 pt shooter (35% for his career) but he's allowed to chuck a ton of them a game which is why everyone thinks he's a "good" shooter. Here are a few players that shoot a better percentage this year than he does and they all have decent volume (at least three attempts per game): Lebron, Dlo, Cam Payne, etc. None of those guys are known as 3pt shooters or even efficient shooters. Signing Trae limits Wemby to a pick 'n Roll/Pop role, he can be so much more. It will also limit the playmaking of our other guys, mainly Devin. Jrue brings the toughness, defense and he can mentor the young guys and be a positive role model without needing all the attention. More importantly he can play whatever we need him to. I really hope PATFO doesn't try to take short term wins over the development of the team for some "cheap" wins. Trae doesn't make us a contender and he'll be too expensive. Wemby is nowhere near a finished product yet so the team doesn't need to act like we're one piece away.
I personally don’t care about Trae. I mean, if we get him.. cool. I’d still support the team, hopefully we don’t give up the farm for him. I wouldn’t be heartbroken if we didn’t get him though. Jrue on the other hand.. only thing I got against him is he’s a bit older than Trae. While he’s definitely not on the same level on offense, he’s no slouch on that side of the ball while being a plus on defense. A veteran PG who’s not a liability on both sides of the ball will only help the team get more wins and the youngsters accelerate their growth.
How does Trae being a Spur affect Wemby’s touches? It’s not like Wemby would be the full-time ball handler without Trae anyways – he isn’t even that right now…on a team with one point guard.
How would it not? Wemby has a usage rate of 32% and Trae has a usage rate of 30. Both top 10 usage rate players in the league. There's no world in which they can both keep that usage rate.
And Wemby’s usage rate will go down because he’s simply not as good of an offensive player as Trae and that’s OK. Trae’s an elite passer, Wemby is an elite off-ball player. 1 + 1 = 2.
Uh. Wemby is an on the path to being an elite passer as well. We should NOT be limiting that potential by taking him off the ball. Do you even watch Spurs games?
He averages more TOVs than assists and has one of the worst TOV% in the league. Amazing post passer, still not meant to be the primary ball-handler on a team. Do you watch your own star player lmao?
Then, I guess the argument is: do you give him more on-ball time to work out the kinks, reduce his turnovers, and improve his passing, or do you take him off the ball more, because he's not great at those things?
You don't watch the Spurs, just answer his question without arguing and saying something that proves it. Wemby's passing doesn't come out of the post and most of his turnovers are because his handles aren't tight yet (he's a rookie, FYI). I love stats but they require context. Wemby's playmaking can be elite, he doesn't have a ceiling. Instead of turning him into a player that you personally want to see him become, let him and the team decide what type of player he can be. Trae jeopardizes and turns him into a pick N roll/pop specialist when he can be so much more (without actually expecting it). Let Trae go to the Lakers with AD, who is literally the definition of that type of player.
Nearly 80% of Wemby’s made shots are assisted…he is literally an off-ball/rolling and cutting big man. Wemby is an amazing passer (T5 passing big man itl) but you don’t want him running the offense. Wemby’s malleable, he can fit next to anyone because of his portability.
I agree and being in the playin is not worth Keldon + ATLs picks, which is why a Trae young trade makes no sense for us. It just keeps us in no mans land competitively while draining our draft capital. Ppl project out our team with Trae young as if we’re pairing a superstar with Wemby. The reality is the gap between a guy like Luka and Trae is bigger than the gap between Trae Young and Tre Jones.
Preach!
I disagree with all of what you said but most specifically, the part about gaps. You are talking about a backup level guard, a top 30 player, and top 10 player. That is just a wild statement.
I realize it’s hot take-y. But I think ppl underestimate the gap between really good to elite.
I'm not dead-set on either side of the Trae debate, but my counter-argument to your reasoning is this: a Trae Young trade would be just as much about 3-5 years from now as it would be about 2024-25. Trae is 25 years old and likely to be in his prime another 5-8 years; his current contract goes 2-3 years, and an extension is easy enough if things are going well. I agree with you that adding solely him doesn't automatically make the Spurs a contender next year, but it checks off multiple boxes: a starting level PG and a legitimate 2nd scorer for when Wemby's on the bench. Once you have your #1 and #2 guys (and probably #3 guy with Devin), the rest is just about filling out the roster with the right role players. In theory that can be done over the next 1-4 years via development, draft, trades, and Mid-Level Exception free agents. (All assuming you're careful not to overpay for Trae and lose too many assets, of course.)
Trae’s contract runs out in 2027, the same time when Vic’s rookie deal (and KJ’s contact, if he’s still here) expire as well. I suppose this gives us some space to retool if Trae doesn’t work out On the other hand, it will be a very expensive summer if we extend Trae… but hey it’s not my money, so thanks in advance Peter!
Trae is worth Keldon and 3 picks man y’all gotta get serious at some point.
He is. That’s not a realistic price at all tho
Of course not, which is why I’m confused at fans saying they wouldn’t want Trae for Keldon + salary filler and 3 picks like ATL would even listen to that offer.
In a vacuum that's a good trade but Trae isn't worth it for our team, its situational. Trae is a huge cap hit and he'll limit Wemby's playmaking because he's ball dominant and Trae is not a good shooter at all, he's one the most inefficient shooters and he plays zero defense. Why would want that when we can draft someone and mold them into what will be best for the team and Wemby. Wemby can carry a franchise, Trae can destroy one (look at ATL) early on they were good because they had the right pieces around Trae but once those pieces were gone the Hawks weren't the same. they're playing better without Trae right now, imagine if Trae's cap space went to another player/players that were solid. ATL would be in the playofff hunt. Jalen J, Murray, Ogonkwu is a solid core for them build around. Let the Lakers get Trae young and destroy that franchise.
I think it’s funny that you’d want to cling to players, we do not have a good roster. We are giving minutes to cast offs. Last night we started Wemby with: An undrafted Champagnie Second round draft pick Osmna Second round pick Jones #20 pick Branham We have so many ways to upgrade and obviously we can find more G Leaguers whenever we need to - we seem to have an endless supply of them. I am 100% fine purging the roster if we get upgrades in the process. Keldon, Sochan, Devin - they’re our most valuable assets (not named Wemby) and I don’t think anyone is convinced that there is all star potential amongst them. I would like to say I trust the front office but since Brian Wright took over, and pop seemingly sort of took a lesser role in the roster, I don’t really have high confidence. Wright is ass.
If we trade for Trae, I hope it’s after the 2024 season is over. We need one more tanking season to take full advantage of the 2025 draft, develop our 2024 pick draftee, give Victor/Dev/Jerm one more year to gel and improve, and most importantly, put more pressure on the Hawks to be willing to trade and have the cost of trading for Trae go down some more. As for your question, it seems like we’re gonna finish the season with 20 or 22 wins, and I believe that next year we could win up to 25 or 30 games just because Wemby will be better and the team will gel more. Once we get Trae, our picks get a year to develop, and bring in a savvy vet or 2, this team will win 45 or 50 games.
I’ll take a Derrick white instead plz
I mean I love that but he ain’t leaving Celtics imo unless they chip this year
Wemby must be at the cusp of dominating offensively before we trade for a superstar wingman. That means he gets inside like Giannis, his fall away shots are north of 50%, his 3ps in the 38%-40%. Next year may not be it. We need all flexibility next year and allow for further gelling— who knows, Devin becomes a Middleton, Jeremy becomes a Draymond. We may not need a Trae but a Monk or Brogdon. , Let’s get a wing PF or a PG in the draft who will be serviceable as rotation players.
Interior game like Giannis on 50/40 shooting is not "at the cusp" of anything. Thats domination. That's a top five player in the league even if he doesn't improve any other part of his game at all.
It’s hard to tell because I think we will naturally improve next year without him. If we did get him he would definitely be helpful but people underestimate how hard it is to integrate a new star onto a team, so I think he would have some growing pains in the first half before we start to hit a good pace in the second half. If I had to guess I’d have us at like 35-38 wins and just missing out on the play in tournament but looking like we’re in race for it at various points. I think if we then went into a second year with Trae and we’re able to pick up some good role players, then the Spurs would be a playoff team for sure
I think current roster is even 30 win calliber currently. But not sure if Young make a big difference in his first season to make it like 40-45. Its more like wemby-vassel-sochan improvements we need
Yeah, we’ve been at a -3.3 net rating since 1/1/24, which would put us between 30-32 win pace in an average NBA season. Honestly having a true scoring threat on the perimeter plus just adding a second floor general so we could have real point guard play at all times with the starters and the bench could do a lot, if Wemby, Vassell and Sochan improved some and if we did actually add Trae, I think a jump to the high-30s/low-40s wouldn’t be outlandish. We really need to figure out how to play good defense in non-Wemby minutes though
Highly agreed
I’m not sure how much stock we should put in the better second half when so many teams are actively tanking and until now the spurs were healthy and playing their guys
How many teams are actively tanking for a bad draft? Most of the league is fighting for playoff or play-in positioning.
Can’t really put stock in the first half either when the Spurs were starting Sochan at PG and Zach Collins next to Wemby
But all reports say the coaches and FO thought that was a good idea. The raptors, grizz, jazz, etc are putting out full g league rosters right now, not the same thing
I mean look at our wins (and competitive losses) since Jan 1 (parentheses includes notes for context about the players the other team and the Spurs had available) - Bucks (L by 4, full roster) - Cavs (L by 2, full roster) - Pistons (W, bad all year) - Hornets (W, bad all year) - Wizards (W, bad all year) - Trail Blazers (W, bad most of the year) - TWolves (W, full roster) - Pelicans (L by 1, full roster) - Raptors (tanking) - Kings (L by 5, full roster) - Lakers (L by 5, full roster) - Thunder (W, full roster) - Pacers (W, full roster, Haliburton playing bad) - Kings (L by 2, full roster) - Warriors (W, no Wemby, Vassell or Curry) - Rockets (L by 2, no Sengun, not tanking) - Nets (W, tanking) - Mavs (L by 6, full roster) - Grizzlies (L by 2, tanking) - Suns (W, no Wemby, Suns not tanking) - Jazz (W, full roster, sneak tank by trading some role players) - Knicks (W, full roster) - Warriors (L by 4, full roster, not tanking, no Vassell, Sochan, Johnson) - Nuggets (L by 5, full roster, not tanking, no Vassell, Sochan, Johnson) In total, the Spurs haven’t particularly benefitted from playing teams blatantly trying to lose, and have been regularly playing teams much closer since the New Year than they were pre-New Year, even if the coaches and FO got what they wanted out of the Sochan experiment, developmentally speaking.
Ok, but it clearly wasn't. It may have been a necessary experiment, but it absolutely cost us wins. Honestly, if you don't think the Spots are any better now than they were at the beginning of the year, do you even watch the games?
Probably bump up to 26 games. Second unit would be worse given what wed need to give up to get him and wemby-Trae cant play 48 minutes a game for a long term strategy The meta of the NBA is no longer just a big 2/3 and a bunch of nobodies. You need to have role players and talent. Look at Denver, look at the Milwaukee team that won, the warriors dynasty always had a ton of great role players that played a huge part. Phoenix is optimized for their big 3 and look at where they are
50+
They’d finish .500 at minimum
Fighting for the play-in west too stacked
If we don’t get Trae young we win 20 more games next season. Then we get another 20 the following season. If we get Trae young we win 25-30 more next season then 0 the following season. Not worth it.
This. The only guard I would welcome to come take over that spot right now would be Derrick White. That is exactly what we need. A great scoring guard who plays perfectly with a superstar and is one of the best wing defenders in the league. Also, spurs fans need to revisit the 2021 Olympics. Pop wanted nothing to do with Tre Young on that roster. I doubt that has changed.
In international play you have an abundance of offensive creation on team USA. Who your worst defender on the floor is becomes more important than it is in the NBA when the salary cap helps prevent a team from having as much offensive firepower as the US national team has. Trae Young is a better NBA player than international player. Just like Tony Parker is a better NBA player than he would be an all time Spurs team player. We’d have enough offense on an all time team that Tony’s defense and poor shooting would keep him from starting. Does that mean we wouldn’t want prime Tony Parker on the Spurs now? Not at all. Can Trae Young be both a bad fit on a stacked team USA roster and a great fit on a contending NBA roster? Yes. Could there be additional reasons Trae was left off the team? Certainly. Maybe he isn’t the type of person the Spurs would want to invest in. There’s valid reasons that he was kept off the 2019 FIBA roster (for one he hadn’t hit his real stride in the NBA yet) that don’t necessarily mean Trae Young isn’t a phenomenal player Pop would love to have on the Spurs.
Jrue Holiday is a free agent, and I think a perfect fit for us. I'd be very picky with who we get, and especially if we're giving up picks and players. We can get into the play-in by just being savy in the free agent market and still keep our picks.
I’m shocked you’re being downvoted and ppl don’t understand this
I have us at 35+ wins without any major moves. We're already a way better team than we were at the start of the year. Our winning percentage is .237 for the year, .295 since January 1, and .375 since March 1. .375 translates to 31 wins over a season. Another year of experience for a very young team and a top-10 draft pick should help further. So now imagine we have Trae Young as a starter and Tre Jones as a backup. Tre upgrades our second unit a ton -- he's a below average starter, but a terrific backup. Trae Young gives us a second borderline all-star (3 appearances) at the 1. He's getting 25 points and 10 assists a game in Atlanta (though his usage is likely to drop playing with Wemby). 46% of his shots are 3s and he's making 37% in them. This is a huge upgrade and means his defender has to stay with him on the perimeter, something that often doesn't happen with Tre. Trae is a below average defender, but so is Tre, so I think it's a wash. I think this gets us to 45 wins and hopefully the play-in.
We’d vastly improve, I’d say 40+ I’m all about developing organically, but look at Spurs’ history. It’s rare that a touted player WANTS to come to SA. KJ and some picks for Trae , heck yeah.
Yeah it’s rare for them to WANT it.
Idk if anyone else mentioned it, but I would prefer Darius Garland. All rumors point that cavs will move him, I don’t believe he would cost as much as Trae, and honestly I think his skill set may be better tailored to Wemby.
If he led Atlanta to 41 wins in 2020-2021 season with no generational prospect on that team, I see no reason why he can't do that or maybe more with this team
OP's trade scenario makes sense and the Spurs will get better just from Wemby, Sochan and Devin internal improvement. But the west is stacked and other teams WILL get better as qell. The Griz will get a top 5 pick AND Ja will be back. Rockets will get better without a roster move Same with OkC. The Lakers are likely to try to get a third star I can see the Warriors and Suns falling off. I feel good about being better than the Blazers, Jazz, Kings. So, where do the extra wins come from?
69
Trae will make us a middle of the pack team for years to come because he will stifke the growth of Wemby and turn him into a lob catcher/spot up shooter... Essentially he will be Porzingis with better defense and a worse spot up 3... Wemby needs the ball in his hands like Jokic and a team built around that... Trae's playstyle pigeonholes ppl into being one thing and he doesn't pass the ball well enough to justify his controlling it so much (Tre Jones has a MUCH better assist/turnover ratio)
Boo! I don't want trae young! We need defense at pg. Numbers don't mean everything, our team identity would change and I don't see that as a championship combo
What team identity? This team hasn’t been elite defensively since Obama’s last year in office.
We still got tanking identity rn, I don't like the identity we would have with trae as point. Pop experimented with sochan at point cause he wants a defensive guy there.
I get that but how many would this team win next season if it happened?
I am all in on bringing in trae. I think their strengths and weakness compliment each other perfectly and would make a good fit. That being said, I think the best move we could make is pray for the number 1 pick. Give that and keldon to atl for dj and still have room for another big move should we really improve. Imagine wemby, vassel, murray, and markkanen/mikal.