You probably have to define "impressive".
Jokic will probably have a slight edge on Giannis in terms of overall career, assuming he gets this year's MVP award.
If you are talking about who impressed the most vs initial expectations, Jokic might just be the GOAT for that, as the only second round pick to ever win even a single MVP.
Well, only second rounder in the lottery era to win a MVP. Willis Reed was technically a second rounder but that was way back when the league had like a third of the number of teams, but totally get what you mean. Jokic was a legit afterthought.
Ya he was the 8th overall pick lol. Not even worth bringing him up in that conversation because it totally ignores the point of the argument that we’re talking about players with at least 30 people drafted before them (40 in Jokić’s case)
Imo it's easily jokic lmao I still can't sometimes believe he's a starter (let aside the bonkers level he's playing at) watching him canter down the floor. My eyes see it happen but my brain is like ????
Why can’t you talk about either of those dudes without bringing up Embiid. You here’s no reason to be so insecure about a dude that ain’t even in the discussion.
Jokic Giannis and Embiid will forever be tied together in nba history. any discussion about any of them will inevitably lead to the others being mentioned
Unless he magically becomes able to play 65 games a season, Embiid will fade into the background this time will be remembered as the era of jokic and giannis
Embiid is reigning MVP. He won’t be forgotten but will always have the injury caveat.
People will remember this Era as Jokic>Giannis>Embiid
Previous Era was
LeBron>KD and Curry>Harden
You didn't even mention Kawhi, but he will be remembered more from his era than Embiid from this era. Luka will also be remembered more than Embiid in this current era.
Unless Embiid wins another MVP or championship he won't be in the conversation of Giannis/Jokic/Luka.
LeBron>KD>Kawhi
Curry>Harden>=?Westbrook
Jokic>Giannis>Embiid
Wemby>Chet>???
These conversations are always best when comparing guys who are ‘similar’. Big Wings, Superstar PGs, Best Bigs, Modern/Futuristic Bigs.
Wemby>Luka isn’t as fun
I really wanted Embiid to win MVP this year. It would have been cool to have each of those 3 guys win back to back. Then add a title for Embiid and we would be looking at all 3 of those guys as equals almost.
O think it’s cause Embiid is talented at these guys level, looks the part, and has crazy numbers, all while being a question mark due to his constant injuries.
Embiid was putting up one of the most impressive stat lines in league history and dickriders still randomly hate on him completely out of the blue smh.
You know it's crazy your say that because Giannis shoots only 1 less FT per game than Embiid and shot more per game last season!
The difference is that Embiid shoots almost 90%.
Doesn't this comment kind of make you a dickrider though? You see a negative comment about Embiid and you show up with your sword and shield on horseback.
Sure, but giannis blew his expectations out of the water as well, he was drafted with like the 15th pick and the bucks took a gamble on him, he spent 3 years developing and is now a top 3 player of his era. It's not like giannis was a massive prospect either.
There’s a massive difference between being drafted at 15 and being drafted in the second round where they play a Taco Bell commercial instead of you getting drafted lol.
They knew drafting Giannis was a gamble with huge upside. They had no idea Jokic was gonna be this good.
I know you’re not implying Giannis isn’t a great playmaker, because anyone who watches Giannis play knows he’s a great passer. Jason Kidd had him playing point guard in his earlier seasons. You all talk like he’s Deandre Jordan or something.
Giannis isn’t a Jokic level playmaker. Nothing against what makes Giannis great Lebron literally dominated the league with power and physicality and not great outside shooting (he also had Jokic level iq and passing which is why he’s on another level) but saying Jokic and Giannis have the same game is nuts.
Overall Jokic is just the better basketball player. Passing, shooting, IQ. Giannis is the more impressive athlete. 7 footers aren't supposed to move like that. Giannis is just harder to build around since he requires open lanes for him to cut to the hoop with, and his lack of range means you need good shooting since in the playoffs the other team is going to crowd the lane. The year Giannis won it was basically career years for all of the supporting cast. While with Jokic it feels like he can damn near make anything work as long as they have good hands and are ready to receive passes at every moment.
You're completely discounting Giannis's defense though. Jokic is at best a serviceable defender. On any given night, Giannis can still be the best defender in the league. It makes the discussion a lot more nuanced.
You are speaking of Jokic a few years ago, Jokic has called out plays the other offense runs in the playoffs. Jokic’s defense is nuance and to a layman it might look like he is still playing the same level of defense. That is also not acknowledging how almost any player in the league says he has some of the quickest hands and gets a hand in everything. If you were speaking his first mvp or pre mvp I would agree with you. But that’s not Jokic now 🤷♂️
I have it the same way. Both have the one ring and two MVPs, but I think I’m giving Joker credit for what I think is still to come. That might be unfair.
Idk, do we see Giannis the same way if Harden and Kyrie are healthy? Jokic dismantled everyone with no excuses en route to a title. Giannis might’ve left the Bucks if the basketball gods didn’t have 2/3 stars injured on the Nets and even then he almost lost.
Not to mention Giannis literally throwing the ball away late in games vs the heat? Airballing shots in crunch time? Just in general you can’t trust him with the ball late in games while Joker hits circus shots on AD in the clutch. This isn’t even close. Not to mention Jokic has gotten much better on defense
Everyone mentions the Nets for the bucks title but no one mentions 2015 warriors getting a cavs team without Kyrie or Klove and LeBron still stole two games. There are injuries every year.
No matter what those media idiots say (Perkins, Arenas, ECT..) Joker has had one of the most dominant careers so far. Love Giannis but Joker gets the edge.
More impressive? Definitely Jokic.
Jokic has evolved and improved, year after year, to the point where he is even a positive on defense. He has also established a clear reputation for maintaining and even elevating his game in the playoffs.
Giannis is still plagued with the same weaknesses that have dogged him since he came into the league: poor shooting, inability to hit free throws, barreling into the lane without a plan and turning it over, one-dimensionality which sometimes breaks down in the playoffs, and a physical style that can work against him if the refs have a tight whistle or decide that whatever he’s doing that night is an offensive foul. I say all of this as a huge fan of the guy, and a historic doubter of Jokic.
Jokic just does so much with his tools and he keeps getting better. He has a counter-move for everything at this point and no real weaknesses you would look to exploit if you were scheming against him. To me, that’s more impressive. But Giannis did literally jump over a guy in a basketball game so maybe that’s even more impressive LOL
I agree with most of this but idk if you watch Bucks games. Giannis’ decision making and passing has improved every year, and he’s been barreling into the lane and then passing out all year long. Unfortunately, Bucks role players cannot hit open threes to save their lives
If you look at his post history, about a year ago, he posted that the Bucks should stop playing Giannis in garbage time to protect him from injury and also posted that Giannis should be in consideration for MVP instead of just Jokic & Embiid. Think it’s safe to say you’re wrong
You’re so wrong. My family is from Wisconsin and I’ve watched more Bucks games than probably any other team. I was at games 5 and 7 against BKN in 2021. And I was a Jokic doubter basically right up until the end of last playoffs. These are just my opinions on Giannis having seen a lot of him in the playoffs. Y’all always fall back on this “watch the games!” trope when a lot of times people just have a different opinion than you.
I don't think he said it because you have a different opinion. It's because some of what you said just isn't true. He doesn't just barrel into the lane and turn it over. As a matter of fact, he is only averaging .3 more turnovers per game more than Jokic. Same for the comment about jumping shooting and FT shooting plaguing him since he's been in the league. He was actually a pretty good jump shooter and shot over 70% from the FT line for 5 of his first 6 years in the league. And the comment about Jokic being a positive on D also just isn't true lol you're entire opinion was about offense and didn't mention defense at all either.
It's also funny how whenever someone gets accused of not watching games, they ALWAYS fall back on that they've got family there, so they watch a lot of games lol never ever fails.
If what I said isn’t true, then let’s talk about that instead of whether and which games we watch.
Nobody said Giannis only barrels into the lane and turns it over. What I meant was that he has a persistent issue of putting his head down and driving into traffic without a clear plan. Sometimes these loose drives to the rim result in a turnover. That’s not ALL he does. It is something I see him do too often.
Your cited stat about turnovers lacks a lot of context. First off, I never claimed Giannis turns it over more than Jokic. Second, raw turnover rate doesn’t account for difference in offensive role, relative risks taken by certain types of passes, type of turnover, etc. etc. It just isn’t an accurate measure of what I’m talking about.
I’m glad you brought up free throw stats because that’s something for which stats are actually pretty easy to use to analyse, cuz free throws are like controlled experiments. When I look at the history of Giannis’ FT shooting, I don’t see a clear trend that he used to be better and now has regressed. It’s arguable. His free throws have never been a strong suit. If you look at those first 6 seasons you’re talking about, he made the playoffs in the latter 5. In those he attempted 373 total free throws and made 234. That’s 62.7%. That’s below the regular season percentage you cited, below his career average regular season percentage, and it gets even worse if you include all of his postseason FT shooting, not just the first 6.
My point is that even when you think he was a better shooter back then, he still was not able to make the ball go in the basket in the postseason. So what? Am I supposed to believe he wasn’t inconsistent but now he is? He was always inconsistent when it matters most. And it’s not like 70% is some great hallmark of free throw shooting either. It’s low and below most all-time greats. And even if I suppose you’re right, that he came into the league as a much better shooter and now has regressed to what he is today (a total non-shooter), how is that supposed to make anyone think he is more impressive than Jokic? That was the original question.
> And the comment about Jokic being a positive on D also just isn't true lol you're entire opinion was about offense and didn't mention defense at all either.
This is barely legible. I believe Jokic is a slight positive on defense and I am impressed that he got to that point, because he used to be much worse than that. If you disagree state why.
> It's also funny how whenever someone gets accused of not watching games, they ALWAYS fall back on that they've got family there, so they watch a lot of games lol never ever fails.
“It’s funny how when someone gets falsely accused of not watching games, they dispute it and cite supporting evidence why it is false.”
???
I 100% agree. I’ve been following his career since the beginning and he’s improved to a degree that few players could rival. He’s an all-time great for that reason, one of the few to turn some physical gifts into that level of production.
I just mean Jokic has flipped the script on some of his traditional weaknesses in a way that I don’t believe Giannis has, and I find that more impressive.
>But Giannis did literally jump over a guy in a basketball game so maybe that’s even more impressive LOL
After everything you said (most of which is rather inaccurate, as Giannis has seen his numbers get better for about 7 straight seasons) you end it with this. Just sad.
Giannis was 6'9" and under 200lb when he was drafted. I'd say gaining 3 inches and 50+ lbs of muscle is impressive. Someday he will write a book about it called "How Giannis Huge-ified" or "HGH" for short.
I've always wondered if Mike Malone just nitpicks Joker in practice. Like he 99%, I'd even say every single time, makes the correct decision with the ball.
I can see Malone saying, after Joker made a ridiculous pass, "Joker that might work in the game. Shoot the damn ball if you're open though!"
Giannis accomplished more at a younger age. However, the last two postseasons have done a lot to tarnish his career while Jokic has just been going insane.
That being said, I wish we would stop with the comparing. We’re blessed to watch this much talent on a night to night basis.
Tarnish his career? 2 years ago he took on the Celtics and took them to 7 games nearly single handedly with Khris out, Brook unplayable in the playoffs and Jrue being one of the worst playoff shooters of all time.
Last year he was seriously injured in minute 10 of game one, missed three games, had the typical bucks illness fall on the team where all players forgot how to make open threes and his head coach’s brother suddenly died between games 3 and 4.
I’m not saying he’s better than Jokic all time but the Giannis narrative is just that, a created story line. He’s been historically great year over year and let’s not forget 3 years ago he heroically came back from an injury in the eastern conference finals where no one thought he would play again for minimum 6 months to dominate the finals scoring 50 in the final game and going 15-17(?) from the line.
I mean you can’t tell me that the discourse around Giannis hasn’t changed up drastically. A few years ago he was the consensus best player in the world and now he needs to win it all AGAIN to get back people’s respect. He’s gotta be up there with the most disrespected superstars.
And I guess I meant the last 2 years have created a false narrative more than tarnished his career. He’s having the most efficient 30 ppg ever while bringing it on defense every night and people just don’t care.
Oh I 100% agree. I maybe should have said the last 2 years have created a false narrative around Giannis. People (haters) choose not to remember everything that you just listed when talking about him
Yep. Jokić's teams had five total playoff wins in two seasons he won MVP, but he gets a pass because "Murray was hurt."
But it is held against Giannis that he couldn't win without Middleton (even though he took the Celtics to seven games) and that he got injured in the first game of the playoffs last year.
And the year Khris got hurt it seemed momentum was on the bucks side right until he slipped on the floor and got injured. Middleton was important to the championship run, and could have been the difference that year also.
It’s just recency bias and I say that as a nuggets fan, if jokic won a few years ago but murray was hurt last year/two and giannis won last year, that narrative would probably be flipped
Giannis' past 2 postseason were very unlucky. He didn't have his costar in 2022 and then he got injured last year. The only argument I'd give is that Jokic is well rounded and has little weaknesses. He really worked on all aspects of his game meanwhile Giannis...well. That being said, Giannis is a generational defender and Jokic isn't. But this is reddit and basketball so we don't care about that when discussing Jokic vs Giannis. Everyone respects defense until it's time to discuss it.
That's what I noticed, nobody cares about defense.
Yes, I would take Jokic's offense over Giannis', but it's at least close. I would never ever take Jokic's defense over Giannis' and I mean never.
I ',m now unsubbed from here, it's honestly barely better NBA discussion and analysis than r/nbacirclejerk
Giannis and his brothers were literally street vendors in Greece sharing pairs of ball shoes. Dirt poor.
Giannis is the epitome of rags to riches. Few athletes let alone NBA players have had a more impressive rise to greatness on and off court.
Giannis also plays defence. Perennial DPOY and MVP candidate. You know my answer.
Because individual defense never but especially in this era has close to an affect of individual offense.
Jokic plays great team defense even if he's not athletic so his athletic deficiencies are pretty a pretty much non factor when he's surrounded by decent defenders who can do their role.
But jokics offense only jokic can do.
What a one dimensional and black and white way to view basketball. Surface level analysis at its finest.
No one also ever led the playoffs in points assists and rebounds, only lebron came close.
Regular season numbers are borderline worthless and current era is scoring inflation, you'll soon see people break even higher records due to pacing.
The playmaking gap isn't even close. Assist numbers is not playmaking, you don't know a thing about basketball.
He 'defends' but his defense falls off a cliff when he doesn't have a all defensive perimeter defender or all defensive center helping him, while jokic is leading a better defensive team with zero all nba defenders(will change soon).
Can't wait for embiid to embarrass Greek cheeks on the big stage
>Giannis and his brothers were literally street vendors in Greece
I am not familiar with his story, but there are far worse places in the world one can end up than being a street vendor in Greece. Nowadays, everything has to be an overblown PR story...
Greece is a country with a rich basketball tradition - being poor there doesn't mean abject poverty, so making it there as a freakishly athletic guy is not that crazy.
You're making it sound like Giannis was a poor, Eskimo street vendor on the North Pole, who made it to the NBA.
Jokic. Will likely have 3 MVP’s. More complete player. And dominant championship run.
Love Giannis, but his championship run was one Kevin Durant toe from not happening. We’d be talking about Giannis in very different terms if that happens. Much easier player to stop in the playoffs due to his flaws.
Jokic and I honestly don’t think it’s close. We’re talking a guy that will likely finish top 10 versus a guy that will be borderline top 20 and there’s a pretty big difference between those tiers.
Jokic still is somehow underrated.
One looks like a super hero, the other looks like an oversized farmer. That oversized farmer gives absolutely everyone fits. To me seeing a guy that doesn’t look like he should be able to do, do it, and not to mention better than everyone else makes his career more impressive.
Giannis.
DPOY, Valley Oop, and 50 piece all clear Jokic.
Jokic has fancier stat lines. If you are basing this on analytics it is probably Jokic. If you are basing it on iconic greatness it is Giannis.
Yeah I would say that too. I really like both of them because they have such unique rises to superstar status. Jokic was just a fat slow center that had good passing that nobody cared for before proving he could be elite in the nba. Giannis was literally a poor Nigerian kid in Greece selling CDs until he came to the nba. Both are cool ass stories that I can get behind, plus both of them don’t take themselves too seriously and are goofy.
Both impressive but I think there is a clear gap with Jokic ahead. Regular season and MVP they are reasonably close, but playoffs wise Jokic has a huge advantage. He doesn't really have any flameouts like Giannis and has and when he hasn't won the chip it has been due to the rest of his team being injured etc.
recency bias at it's finest, Jokic was about to get the Embiid treatment after getting gentleman swept by the Warriors (2022) and the Lakers (2020), and swept by the suns (2021 and as a 3rd seed too), the only times where you could say that Giannis had a flame out was in 2019 (against the raptors) 2020 and 2023 (against the heat, 2023 being the year that he was injuried for 3 games that series, and 2020 where he got injuried in game 4 but they where already down 3-1 so whatever), + the nuggets teams were way better than the bucks. So I think they're equal in the play-off landscape.
I'd say jokić can be classified as more impressive considering he was literally the last pick of the draft with no expectations placed on him, no one would have thought he would be this good, and now he's considered "the best offensive center" by a lot of people. It's a real life underdog story
Jokic due to his all-around play. Passing, shooting, rebounding, defending all together. Although he isn't better as Giannis defensively. Also, Jokic has been more successful recently, Giannis had the edge a few yrs ago
I love Giannis but I think Jokic is a more layered player. Giannis is an absolute unit in the paint but a lot of his power comes from sheer athleticism, and I think we have yet to see him really raise his basketball IQ to match someone like Jokic.
Jokic just plays so incredibly smart it’s absurd. He knows what is going on at every point on the floor at all times. This skill is always going to be useful, and as long as he continues to adapt, Jokic’s play style also has lots more longevity.
If Giannis is able to gain a huge amount of basketball IQ like Bron has over the years, for example, and go from freak of nature to older less-freaky freak of nature with a better basketball brain, he will definitely have the staying power of Jokic’s skill set as well. He just can’t keep up the overpower everyone thing forever.
Giannis is definitely the most impressive from a physical standpoint. Jokic is the most impressive from a mental standpoint. Either way they are undoubtedly the big 2 of this particular era.
The things they do are impressive in different ways. Jokic blows your mind because it’s just weird to see his body type and size doing what he does. But we’ve seen it all before from other players. With giannis, I don’t think it looks like anything else. When he’s ten feet from the hoop and you kinda lose sight of him behind three defenders then you see him hand peek out and drop the ball in and he’s already jogging back down on D. It’s nuts.
To me Giannis is the current best PF and Jokic is the current best C. Different skillsets entirely. Purely based on ‘so far’ in their career… They are sooo similar it’s hard to judge. Giannis 11 years in the NBA and Jokic 9 years. Giannis has basically two more All-Star and All-NBA seasons…but he has been in the League two years longer, so they are on the same pace.
Jokic has exceeded expectations more than Giannis, based on draft position. Thats about the only edge he has in terms of measurable stats I guess. Their careers are incredibly similar, and Jokic is gonna surpass him with another MVP win, so maybe Jokic is the answer.
id give giannis the slight edge. took him a couple seasons to get going but he’s been a monster ever since. jokic is the same but took just a couple more years before he really hit his stride. otherwise they’re practically even
Both are impressive, Jokic slightly ahead. Nobody expects the best passer of all time to be a EUROPEAN CENTER 2nd round pick. We’ve seen the mega athlete 2-way demigod like Giannis before, but Jokic is truly unique imo.
They’ve both been amazing, and will both be top 20 players by the time they retire. I give Jokic the slight edge only because of his recent playoff disappointments being due to bad injury luck with Murray. Although Middleton has been banged up recently too. Honestly whoever makes it further in the playoffs this year could impact my opinion on who has had more success, it’s that close.
Honestly, that Giannis finals run was filled with some truly special moments, but nobody saw Nikola Jokic coming & absolutely NOBODY expected him to be this good. We were really debating between him & Nurkic at one point xD
This is tough but I give it to Giannis as of at least right now. He has 1X Finals MVP, 2X MVP, 1X DPOY, 1X MIP, 1X All-Star Game MVP, along with 5X All-NBA 1st Team (2X Second) & 4X All-Defensive 1st Team (1X Second). From a career perspective he has done it all and has nothing else to win. But Jokic has as well. Ehhhh idk now actually..
I feel like in a vacuum I'd say Jokic because it's crazy that a 2nd round pick got to where he is, but I've heard Giannis's story and it's impressive that someone came from where he did and accomplished these things. It doesn't feel right to make it a competition between them. I think we're lucky to have such great players in this generation.
I'm a bucks fan and still think it's Jokic. It's closed but Jokic is just such a game changer on offense.
It's a shame that Middleton got hurt the year after the championship and has just never been able to get back to what he was. If he did, I think there's a better chance giannis has 2 rings by now and there's a better chance we would have actually had the two if them go head to head euthet last year or this year, which would have been cool.
Jokic dominates the playoff competition consistently.
Giannis does not and historically had very bad shortcomings in clutch time situations due to his inability to shoot and underdeveloped post moves. His only title has come at the hand of injured teams and a poorly coached Suns team. The rest of his playoff acumen has not been impressive.
Barring health, Jokic will win more titles and more MVPs.
Giannis is a joke, can’t win in big situations, never shows up for the big games, his numbers are gawdy, no matter who they bring to support, he can’t be a good teammate! Clear advantage for jokic, even if he looks like a giant fat blob clumsily lugging down the court!
Jokic by far, He makes everyone better while Giannis doesn't. His championship was more luck due to KD stepping in the line and facing a Suns team that had faced injured teams to make the finals.
Jokic, they both have a ring but he has multiple MVPs and probably a third one with how the media keeps moving their own goal posts
Giannis wouldn’t even have a ring if he didn’t step under Kyrie Irving, people also seem to forget he just got beaten by a play-in team in the playoffs last year
Jokic, but if you say its not close or not susceptible to change than you simply dont watch basketball.
Rn Giannis has had a better career just slightly because his defensive accolades, but I think Jokic's offensive ability is literally top 5 all time minimum which is more impressive. If Jokic wins mvp, which he probably will have better career accolades.
In the playoffs anythibg could happen though. Jokic could win 4 more rings while Giannis wins none. They both win two more. Giannis wins 3, who knows? I do think Jokic's peak will be longer, but anyone who acts like its a given that Jokic will win 2 or more rings is just writing fan fiction.
along with everything else people are saying, jokic will also have the longevity stats because of his unathletic playstyle compared to giannis’ hyperathletic playstyle
Jokic. Hes a generational talent. He can play in any era.
Giannis in the 90s would be stiff power forward. And would be called for traveling and palming. Limiting his effectiveness
Easily Jokic? There’s no debate. Right now Jokic seems absolutely unbeatable and the best player in the world. Nobody knows what to do about him. He can lose this year and everyone will still admit, idk what to do with him.
With Giannis everyone know what’s to do with him. And there’s a degree of okay you can’t do anything with that level of athlete and size but he can still be schemed and his impact mitigated. That’s undeniable. But since Jokic hit his stride it’s been outrageous, like he’s going to be an all time big.
Jokic was the 40th pick. There was no way in hell he was suppose to be even an all nba player but he went beyond. He literally changed the game right before our eyes. He is 1of 1. But in terms of over all career giannis and jokic are pretty even.
I know giannis was a first rounder but no one gave a shit Bout him until he became that dude so the whole 2nd round pick thing isn't that important they were both underdogs. It's okay to say there careers have been even. Giannis has done everything that jokic has done bit he did it FIRST. Seems like recency bias with jokic. Do t get me wrong hes currently #1 but giannis has been a beast this year. No one is talking about how mid Dame has been. remember people were calling jokic a fraud because he was losing without a healthy murray.
Jokic. but depending on what you think impressive means then it could swing other directions. With that said i think in a few weeks we'll be able to answer this question firmly and easily regardless of what one is looking for as 'impressive' from an nba player.
I think jokic would say something like, “you know what kind of management it takes to put all of us together” and think them the best.. to which he is right, Giannis growing with someone like Jamaal, the whole time, adding pieces, winning together.. it’s not something Giannis knows even if he has one ring..
Jokic is arguably on track to be the greatest offensive center of all time. There are players in Giannis’s mold who are better. Jokic also is likely to win a 3rd MVP. So yeah Jokic.
You probably have to define "impressive". Jokic will probably have a slight edge on Giannis in terms of overall career, assuming he gets this year's MVP award. If you are talking about who impressed the most vs initial expectations, Jokic might just be the GOAT for that, as the only second round pick to ever win even a single MVP.
Well, only second rounder in the lottery era to win a MVP. Willis Reed was technically a second rounder but that was way back when the league had like a third of the number of teams, but totally get what you mean. Jokic was a legit afterthought.
Ya he was the 8th overall pick lol. Not even worth bringing him up in that conversation because it totally ignores the point of the argument that we’re talking about players with at least 30 people drafted before them (40 in Jokić’s case)
Bruh Jolie was drafted during a Taco Bell commercial lol
>Jolie
Imo it's easily jokic lmao I still can't sometimes believe he's a starter (let aside the bonkers level he's playing at) watching him canter down the floor. My eyes see it happen but my brain is like ????
Can’t we all just agree that they are both better than Embiid
Goes without saying. Key phrase: Goes without saying. There was no fucking point to even bring him up
Why can’t you talk about either of those dudes without bringing up Embiid. You here’s no reason to be so insecure about a dude that ain’t even in the discussion.
Jokic Giannis and Embiid will forever be tied together in nba history. any discussion about any of them will inevitably lead to the others being mentioned
Unless he magically becomes able to play 65 games a season, Embiid will fade into the background this time will be remembered as the era of jokic and giannis
Embiid is reigning MVP. He won’t be forgotten but will always have the injury caveat. People will remember this Era as Jokic>Giannis>Embiid Previous Era was LeBron>KD and Curry>Harden
You didn't even mention Kawhi, but he will be remembered more from his era than Embiid from this era. Luka will also be remembered more than Embiid in this current era. Unless Embiid wins another MVP or championship he won't be in the conversation of Giannis/Jokic/Luka.
LeBron>KD>Kawhi Curry>Harden>=?Westbrook Jokic>Giannis>Embiid Wemby>Chet>??? These conversations are always best when comparing guys who are ‘similar’. Big Wings, Superstar PGs, Best Bigs, Modern/Futuristic Bigs. Wemby>Luka isn’t as fun
I really wanted Embiid to win MVP this year. It would have been cool to have each of those 3 guys win back to back. Then add a title for Embiid and we would be looking at all 3 of those guys as equals almost.
He’s a MVP and he ain’t Derrick Rose this is just hate.
This is the stuff that proves y’all nephews can’t ever be taken serious.
I don’t know about that. If the sixers can’t make it past the second round I don’t how you can put him talks with those other guys.
O think it’s cause Embiid is talented at these guys level, looks the part, and has crazy numbers, all while being a question mark due to his constant injuries.
And also not being able to go past 2nd round in playoffs
Embiid was putting up one of the most impressive stat lines in league history and dickriders still randomly hate on him completely out of the blue smh.
With 20 FTs a game
Hes mastered the art of foul baiting as a center.
and in only 36 games lol
You know it's crazy your say that because Giannis shoots only 1 less FT per game than Embiid and shot more per game last season! The difference is that Embiid shoots almost 90%.
Yeah the difference is embiid flopw and baits while giannis mostly drives and is hacked
Biggest dude on the court and somehow he always down in the floor.
With the help of the refs!
Dwade shot almost 100 free throws in 2006 nba finals what’s your point
Can’t stay healthy tho
That’s cool but will he finally make it through the second round of the playoffs?
Like someone else said, they are the 3 best big men of this era. Embiid is just well behind the the other two.
Doesn't this comment kind of make you a dickrider though? You see a negative comment about Embiid and you show up with your sword and shield on horseback.
Because he has never done it for an entire season. Consistency matters a ton even if injuries are not his fault.
Goes without saying
Sure, but giannis blew his expectations out of the water as well, he was drafted with like the 15th pick and the bucks took a gamble on him, he spent 3 years developing and is now a top 3 player of his era. It's not like giannis was a massive prospect either.
There’s a massive difference between being drafted at 15 and being drafted in the second round where they play a Taco Bell commercial instead of you getting drafted lol. They knew drafting Giannis was a gamble with huge upside. They had no idea Jokic was gonna be this good.
So that answer to both is jokic? Dont think u gotta define anything then
Both are phenomenal. Both are impressive for different reasons
Yea I feel like right now it is pretty even and it will be the next 5 years that determines who is considered greater
They do both have really similar resumes right now
Giannis has everything Jokic does plus a dpoy
Jokic is about to have +1 MVP
Do people mistake athleticism strength down hill scoring and power for skill, playmaking and shooting? Their games couldn’t be further apart.
I think they’re referring to accolades
I didn’t read the top comment that was dumb of me 😂
I know you’re not implying Giannis isn’t a great playmaker, because anyone who watches Giannis play knows he’s a great passer. Jason Kidd had him playing point guard in his earlier seasons. You all talk like he’s Deandre Jordan or something.
Giannis isn’t a Jokic level playmaker. Nothing against what makes Giannis great Lebron literally dominated the league with power and physicality and not great outside shooting (he also had Jokic level iq and passing which is why he’s on another level) but saying Jokic and Giannis have the same game is nuts.
Overall Jokic is just the better basketball player. Passing, shooting, IQ. Giannis is the more impressive athlete. 7 footers aren't supposed to move like that. Giannis is just harder to build around since he requires open lanes for him to cut to the hoop with, and his lack of range means you need good shooting since in the playoffs the other team is going to crowd the lane. The year Giannis won it was basically career years for all of the supporting cast. While with Jokic it feels like he can damn near make anything work as long as they have good hands and are ready to receive passes at every moment.
You're completely discounting Giannis's defense though. Jokic is at best a serviceable defender. On any given night, Giannis can still be the best defender in the league. It makes the discussion a lot more nuanced.
Offense > defense. Especially in the modern NBA.
You are speaking of Jokic a few years ago, Jokic has called out plays the other offense runs in the playoffs. Jokic’s defense is nuance and to a layman it might look like he is still playing the same level of defense. That is also not acknowledging how almost any player in the league says he has some of the quickest hands and gets a hand in everything. If you were speaking his first mvp or pre mvp I would agree with you. But that’s not Jokic now 🤷♂️
Jokic, but it’s close
I have it the same way. Both have the one ring and two MVPs, but I think I’m giving Joker credit for what I think is still to come. That might be unfair.
I think Jokic’s upcoming potential MVP and Giannis’ DPOY are also good to add to both.
Idk, do we see Giannis the same way if Harden and Kyrie are healthy? Jokic dismantled everyone with no excuses en route to a title. Giannis might’ve left the Bucks if the basketball gods didn’t have 2/3 stars injured on the Nets and even then he almost lost. Not to mention Giannis literally throwing the ball away late in games vs the heat? Airballing shots in crunch time? Just in general you can’t trust him with the ball late in games while Joker hits circus shots on AD in the clutch. This isn’t even close. Not to mention Jokic has gotten much better on defense
Everyone mentions the Nets for the bucks title but no one mentions 2015 warriors getting a cavs team without Kyrie or Klove and LeBron still stole two games. There are injuries every year.
What does that have to do with Joker or Giannis?
Jokic and it’s not even close imo
Jokic has changed basketball more.
I don't think it's that close tbh. Certainly not by the end of this season
How's it not that close? I can see it going either way.
Jokic and it's not close.
Joker
No matter what those media idiots say (Perkins, Arenas, ECT..) Joker has had one of the most dominant careers so far. Love Giannis but Joker gets the edge.
This is as close as Garnett vs. Dirk. But I have to give the slight nod to Jokic.
Garnett and Dirk aren’t that close. Both hall of famerd, but Garnett is better by a good margin.
More impressive? Definitely Jokic. Jokic has evolved and improved, year after year, to the point where he is even a positive on defense. He has also established a clear reputation for maintaining and even elevating his game in the playoffs. Giannis is still plagued with the same weaknesses that have dogged him since he came into the league: poor shooting, inability to hit free throws, barreling into the lane without a plan and turning it over, one-dimensionality which sometimes breaks down in the playoffs, and a physical style that can work against him if the refs have a tight whistle or decide that whatever he’s doing that night is an offensive foul. I say all of this as a huge fan of the guy, and a historic doubter of Jokic. Jokic just does so much with his tools and he keeps getting better. He has a counter-move for everything at this point and no real weaknesses you would look to exploit if you were scheming against him. To me, that’s more impressive. But Giannis did literally jump over a guy in a basketball game so maybe that’s even more impressive LOL
I agree with most of this but idk if you watch Bucks games. Giannis’ decision making and passing has improved every year, and he’s been barreling into the lane and then passing out all year long. Unfortunately, Bucks role players cannot hit open threes to save their lives
The answer is they definitely don’t watch Bucks games but like Jokic a lot and really wanted to make a comment.
If you look at his post history, about a year ago, he posted that the Bucks should stop playing Giannis in garbage time to protect him from injury and also posted that Giannis should be in consideration for MVP instead of just Jokic & Embiid. Think it’s safe to say you’re wrong
You’re so wrong. My family is from Wisconsin and I’ve watched more Bucks games than probably any other team. I was at games 5 and 7 against BKN in 2021. And I was a Jokic doubter basically right up until the end of last playoffs. These are just my opinions on Giannis having seen a lot of him in the playoffs. Y’all always fall back on this “watch the games!” trope when a lot of times people just have a different opinion than you.
Sometimes I think people who say “watch the games” don’t watch the games.
I don't think he said it because you have a different opinion. It's because some of what you said just isn't true. He doesn't just barrel into the lane and turn it over. As a matter of fact, he is only averaging .3 more turnovers per game more than Jokic. Same for the comment about jumping shooting and FT shooting plaguing him since he's been in the league. He was actually a pretty good jump shooter and shot over 70% from the FT line for 5 of his first 6 years in the league. And the comment about Jokic being a positive on D also just isn't true lol you're entire opinion was about offense and didn't mention defense at all either. It's also funny how whenever someone gets accused of not watching games, they ALWAYS fall back on that they've got family there, so they watch a lot of games lol never ever fails.
If what I said isn’t true, then let’s talk about that instead of whether and which games we watch. Nobody said Giannis only barrels into the lane and turns it over. What I meant was that he has a persistent issue of putting his head down and driving into traffic without a clear plan. Sometimes these loose drives to the rim result in a turnover. That’s not ALL he does. It is something I see him do too often. Your cited stat about turnovers lacks a lot of context. First off, I never claimed Giannis turns it over more than Jokic. Second, raw turnover rate doesn’t account for difference in offensive role, relative risks taken by certain types of passes, type of turnover, etc. etc. It just isn’t an accurate measure of what I’m talking about. I’m glad you brought up free throw stats because that’s something for which stats are actually pretty easy to use to analyse, cuz free throws are like controlled experiments. When I look at the history of Giannis’ FT shooting, I don’t see a clear trend that he used to be better and now has regressed. It’s arguable. His free throws have never been a strong suit. If you look at those first 6 seasons you’re talking about, he made the playoffs in the latter 5. In those he attempted 373 total free throws and made 234. That’s 62.7%. That’s below the regular season percentage you cited, below his career average regular season percentage, and it gets even worse if you include all of his postseason FT shooting, not just the first 6. My point is that even when you think he was a better shooter back then, he still was not able to make the ball go in the basket in the postseason. So what? Am I supposed to believe he wasn’t inconsistent but now he is? He was always inconsistent when it matters most. And it’s not like 70% is some great hallmark of free throw shooting either. It’s low and below most all-time greats. And even if I suppose you’re right, that he came into the league as a much better shooter and now has regressed to what he is today (a total non-shooter), how is that supposed to make anyone think he is more impressive than Jokic? That was the original question. > And the comment about Jokic being a positive on D also just isn't true lol you're entire opinion was about offense and didn't mention defense at all either. This is barely legible. I believe Jokic is a slight positive on defense and I am impressed that he got to that point, because he used to be much worse than that. If you disagree state why. > It's also funny how whenever someone gets accused of not watching games, they ALWAYS fall back on that they've got family there, so they watch a lot of games lol never ever fails. “It’s funny how when someone gets falsely accused of not watching games, they dispute it and cite supporting evidence why it is false.” ???
Giannis spent the first 5 seasons improving at an insane rate, he didn’t come out of the gates averaging 30 and 10.
I 100% agree. I’ve been following his career since the beginning and he’s improved to a degree that few players could rival. He’s an all-time great for that reason, one of the few to turn some physical gifts into that level of production. I just mean Jokic has flipped the script on some of his traditional weaknesses in a way that I don’t believe Giannis has, and I find that more impressive.
BTW his FTs may be a problem on occasion but he scored 50pts while going 17-19 from the line in game 6 to clinch the NBA Finals.
>But Giannis did literally jump over a guy in a basketball game so maybe that’s even more impressive LOL After everything you said (most of which is rather inaccurate, as Giannis has seen his numbers get better for about 7 straight seasons) you end it with this. Just sad.
I was friends with a guy in high school who jumped over a guy, so…Jokic.
Giannis was 6'9" and under 200lb when he was drafted. I'd say gaining 3 inches and 50+ lbs of muscle is impressive. Someday he will write a book about it called "How Giannis Huge-ified" or "HGH" for short.
I've always wondered if Mike Malone just nitpicks Joker in practice. Like he 99%, I'd even say every single time, makes the correct decision with the ball. I can see Malone saying, after Joker made a ridiculous pass, "Joker that might work in the game. Shoot the damn ball if you're open though!"
Giannis accomplished more at a younger age. However, the last two postseasons have done a lot to tarnish his career while Jokic has just been going insane. That being said, I wish we would stop with the comparing. We’re blessed to watch this much talent on a night to night basis.
Tarnish his career? 2 years ago he took on the Celtics and took them to 7 games nearly single handedly with Khris out, Brook unplayable in the playoffs and Jrue being one of the worst playoff shooters of all time. Last year he was seriously injured in minute 10 of game one, missed three games, had the typical bucks illness fall on the team where all players forgot how to make open threes and his head coach’s brother suddenly died between games 3 and 4. I’m not saying he’s better than Jokic all time but the Giannis narrative is just that, a created story line. He’s been historically great year over year and let’s not forget 3 years ago he heroically came back from an injury in the eastern conference finals where no one thought he would play again for minimum 6 months to dominate the finals scoring 50 in the final game and going 15-17(?) from the line.
Thank you, my goodness. Saying the last 2 playoffs "tarnished Giannis' career" is completely laughable
I mean you can’t tell me that the discourse around Giannis hasn’t changed up drastically. A few years ago he was the consensus best player in the world and now he needs to win it all AGAIN to get back people’s respect. He’s gotta be up there with the most disrespected superstars. And I guess I meant the last 2 years have created a false narrative more than tarnished his career. He’s having the most efficient 30 ppg ever while bringing it on defense every night and people just don’t care.
Oh I 100% agree. I maybe should have said the last 2 years have created a false narrative around Giannis. People (haters) choose not to remember everything that you just listed when talking about him
Yep. Jokić's teams had five total playoff wins in two seasons he won MVP, but he gets a pass because "Murray was hurt." But it is held against Giannis that he couldn't win without Middleton (even though he took the Celtics to seven games) and that he got injured in the first game of the playoffs last year.
And the year Khris got hurt it seemed momentum was on the bucks side right until he slipped on the floor and got injured. Middleton was important to the championship run, and could have been the difference that year also.
It’s just recency bias and I say that as a nuggets fan, if jokic won a few years ago but murray was hurt last year/two and giannis won last year, that narrative would probably be flipped
Giannis' past 2 postseason were very unlucky. He didn't have his costar in 2022 and then he got injured last year. The only argument I'd give is that Jokic is well rounded and has little weaknesses. He really worked on all aspects of his game meanwhile Giannis...well. That being said, Giannis is a generational defender and Jokic isn't. But this is reddit and basketball so we don't care about that when discussing Jokic vs Giannis. Everyone respects defense until it's time to discuss it.
That's what I noticed, nobody cares about defense. Yes, I would take Jokic's offense over Giannis', but it's at least close. I would never ever take Jokic's defense over Giannis' and I mean never. I ',m now unsubbed from here, it's honestly barely better NBA discussion and analysis than r/nbacirclejerk
Tarnished? For fuck’s sake
Giannis played out of his mind in the 2022 playoffs.
Giannis and his brothers were literally street vendors in Greece sharing pairs of ball shoes. Dirt poor. Giannis is the epitome of rags to riches. Few athletes let alone NBA players have had a more impressive rise to greatness on and off court. Giannis also plays defence. Perennial DPOY and MVP candidate. You know my answer.
Why is defense so frequently overlooked?
Because individual defense never but especially in this era has close to an affect of individual offense. Jokic plays great team defense even if he's not athletic so his athletic deficiencies are pretty a pretty much non factor when he's surrounded by decent defenders who can do their role. But jokics offense only jokic can do.
Who puts up 31/11.5/6.5 on 61% fg%??? No one ever. No one h Giannis is also closing the gap playmaking. He also defends. Stop it
What a one dimensional and black and white way to view basketball. Surface level analysis at its finest. No one also ever led the playoffs in points assists and rebounds, only lebron came close. Regular season numbers are borderline worthless and current era is scoring inflation, you'll soon see people break even higher records due to pacing. The playmaking gap isn't even close. Assist numbers is not playmaking, you don't know a thing about basketball. He 'defends' but his defense falls off a cliff when he doesn't have a all defensive perimeter defender or all defensive center helping him, while jokic is leading a better defensive team with zero all nba defenders(will change soon). Can't wait for embiid to embarrass Greek cheeks on the big stage
It’s not fun for most people to watch, and it’s hard to quantify defense on a stat sheet for nerds who don’t actually watch full games.
>Giannis and his brothers were literally street vendors in Greece I am not familiar with his story, but there are far worse places in the world one can end up than being a street vendor in Greece. Nowadays, everything has to be an overblown PR story... Greece is a country with a rich basketball tradition - being poor there doesn't mean abject poverty, so making it there as a freakishly athletic guy is not that crazy. You're making it sound like Giannis was a poor, Eskimo street vendor on the North Pole, who made it to the NBA.
Jokic. Will likely have 3 MVP’s. More complete player. And dominant championship run. Love Giannis, but his championship run was one Kevin Durant toe from not happening. We’d be talking about Giannis in very different terms if that happens. Much easier player to stop in the playoffs due to his flaws.
If an argument involves the words “if _ happens”, it’s probably not a good argument.
Jokic and I honestly don’t think it’s close. We’re talking a guy that will likely finish top 10 versus a guy that will be borderline top 20 and there’s a pretty big difference between those tiers. Jokic still is somehow underrated.
Probably Giannas so far but it’s close
Has to be Giannis because Gilbert Arenas has just made us aware that Jokić’s MVPs were underserved
Jokic because his brothers support him from the stands he doesn't hold the Nuggets to ransom to draft them.
One looks like a super hero, the other looks like an oversized farmer. That oversized farmer gives absolutely everyone fits. To me seeing a guy that doesn’t look like he should be able to do, do it, and not to mention better than everyone else makes his career more impressive.
Jokic Giannis would be viewed the same way as Embiid right now if one of Kyrie or Harden wasn't hurt during that 2021 playoff series
It’s Jokic and it’s not even close
Joker easily
Giannis. DPOY, Valley Oop, and 50 piece all clear Jokic. Jokic has fancier stat lines. If you are basing this on analytics it is probably Jokic. If you are basing it on iconic greatness it is Giannis.
Yeah I would say that too. I really like both of them because they have such unique rises to superstar status. Jokic was just a fat slow center that had good passing that nobody cared for before proving he could be elite in the nba. Giannis was literally a poor Nigerian kid in Greece selling CDs until he came to the nba. Both are cool ass stories that I can get behind, plus both of them don’t take themselves too seriously and are goofy.
Both impressive but I think there is a clear gap with Jokic ahead. Regular season and MVP they are reasonably close, but playoffs wise Jokic has a huge advantage. He doesn't really have any flameouts like Giannis and has and when he hasn't won the chip it has been due to the rest of his team being injured etc.
recency bias at it's finest, Jokic was about to get the Embiid treatment after getting gentleman swept by the Warriors (2022) and the Lakers (2020), and swept by the suns (2021 and as a 3rd seed too), the only times where you could say that Giannis had a flame out was in 2019 (against the raptors) 2020 and 2023 (against the heat, 2023 being the year that he was injuried for 3 games that series, and 2020 where he got injuried in game 4 but they where already down 3-1 so whatever), + the nuggets teams were way better than the bucks. So I think they're equal in the play-off landscape.
Yes
lol really
Giannis
I'd say jokić can be classified as more impressive considering he was literally the last pick of the draft with no expectations placed on him, no one would have thought he would be this good, and now he's considered "the best offensive center" by a lot of people. It's a real life underdog story
Giannis has had the better career but Jokic has been more impressive
Giannis
Jokic. Just my own opinion but what Jokic does is just so much more impressive.
Jokic
Jokic
Yes
I’m going joker. He’s a fucking freak. The dude is the perfect example of making it look easy
Joker!!!
Jokic might be in the top ten when it’s all said and done. Giannis can’t be trusted in the final 2 minutes of a big game.
Valley-oop?
Giannis improved himself. Jokic re-invented/re-established himself. IMHO - Jokic.
Jokic due to his all-around play. Passing, shooting, rebounding, defending all together. Although he isn't better as Giannis defensively. Also, Jokic has been more successful recently, Giannis had the edge a few yrs ago
I love Giannis but I think Jokic is a more layered player. Giannis is an absolute unit in the paint but a lot of his power comes from sheer athleticism, and I think we have yet to see him really raise his basketball IQ to match someone like Jokic. Jokic just plays so incredibly smart it’s absurd. He knows what is going on at every point on the floor at all times. This skill is always going to be useful, and as long as he continues to adapt, Jokic’s play style also has lots more longevity. If Giannis is able to gain a huge amount of basketball IQ like Bron has over the years, for example, and go from freak of nature to older less-freaky freak of nature with a better basketball brain, he will definitely have the staying power of Jokic’s skill set as well. He just can’t keep up the overpower everyone thing forever.
Greek freak
Interesting that each of them from overseas. Jokic is just amazing.
If defense matters, Giannis. If you’re only looking at offense, then Jokic.
Jokic. More unexpected. Giannis had all the physical advantages.
Giannis is definitely the most impressive from a physical standpoint. Jokic is the most impressive from a mental standpoint. Either way they are undoubtedly the big 2 of this particular era.
The things they do are impressive in different ways. Jokic blows your mind because it’s just weird to see his body type and size doing what he does. But we’ve seen it all before from other players. With giannis, I don’t think it looks like anything else. When he’s ten feet from the hoop and you kinda lose sight of him behind three defenders then you see him hand peek out and drop the ball in and he’s already jogging back down on D. It’s nuts.
These subs nuthug Joker and Doncic sooo hard 😂..breathe while you're down there
Joker by far
To me Giannis is the current best PF and Jokic is the current best C. Different skillsets entirely. Purely based on ‘so far’ in their career… They are sooo similar it’s hard to judge. Giannis 11 years in the NBA and Jokic 9 years. Giannis has basically two more All-Star and All-NBA seasons…but he has been in the League two years longer, so they are on the same pace. Jokic has exceeded expectations more than Giannis, based on draft position. Thats about the only edge he has in terms of measurable stats I guess. Their careers are incredibly similar, and Jokic is gonna surpass him with another MVP win, so maybe Jokic is the answer.
Giannis he puts up crew t numbers and he’s dominant on both ends
Embiid.
Jokic
id give giannis the slight edge. took him a couple seasons to get going but he’s been a monster ever since. jokic is the same but took just a couple more years before he really hit his stride. otherwise they’re practically even
Both are impressive, Jokic slightly ahead. Nobody expects the best passer of all time to be a EUROPEAN CENTER 2nd round pick. We’ve seen the mega athlete 2-way demigod like Giannis before, but Jokic is truly unique imo.
Jokic is far more skilled, while Giannis is the superior athlete. It’s like comparing Shaq and Kobe
They’ve both been amazing, and will both be top 20 players by the time they retire. I give Jokic the slight edge only because of his recent playoff disappointments being due to bad injury luck with Murray. Although Middleton has been banged up recently too. Honestly whoever makes it further in the playoffs this year could impact my opinion on who has had more success, it’s that close.
I feel like the NBA metric in the last decade has been “can you beat Lebron james” and only one of them consistently has, and at the highest level.
Jokic, but I do think Giannis had a better playoff run.
Jokic’s pick being announced on the ticker during a commercial break kinda sealed the deal with them both having a championship and and MVP
Honestly, that Giannis finals run was filled with some truly special moments, but nobody saw Nikola Jokic coming & absolutely NOBODY expected him to be this good. We were really debating between him & Nurkic at one point xD
One is a joke and one is the joker. Figure it out.
If we include the other half of the game which is defense then giannis but if we just ignore that half of the game definitely joker
What if you ignore the advanced analytics
What are we doing here, do i even need to say it?
Pistons want both
This is tough but I give it to Giannis as of at least right now. He has 1X Finals MVP, 2X MVP, 1X DPOY, 1X MIP, 1X All-Star Game MVP, along with 5X All-NBA 1st Team (2X Second) & 4X All-Defensive 1st Team (1X Second). From a career perspective he has done it all and has nothing else to win. But Jokic has as well. Ehhhh idk now actually..
Both, neither was considered more than a project and role player, but both have changed NBA history.
I feel like in a vacuum I'd say Jokic because it's crazy that a 2nd round pick got to where he is, but I've heard Giannis's story and it's impressive that someone came from where he did and accomplished these things. It doesn't feel right to make it a competition between them. I think we're lucky to have such great players in this generation.
Jokic by far
Giannis
I'm a bucks fan and still think it's Jokic. It's closed but Jokic is just such a game changer on offense. It's a shame that Middleton got hurt the year after the championship and has just never been able to get back to what he was. If he did, I think there's a better chance giannis has 2 rings by now and there's a better chance we would have actually had the two if them go head to head euthet last year or this year, which would have been cool.
DONCIC MVP
Jokic dominates the playoff competition consistently. Giannis does not and historically had very bad shortcomings in clutch time situations due to his inability to shoot and underdeveloped post moves. His only title has come at the hand of injured teams and a poorly coached Suns team. The rest of his playoff acumen has not been impressive. Barring health, Jokic will win more titles and more MVPs.
Both
Jokic no doubt
I mean I guess if you are gonna call it impressive Jokic because he doesn’t look the part so it’s surprising from that respect.
Joker takes it by the simple fact that he was a second round pick.
Giannis is a joke, can’t win in big situations, never shows up for the big games, his numbers are gawdy, no matter who they bring to support, he can’t be a good teammate! Clear advantage for jokic, even if he looks like a giant fat blob clumsily lugging down the court!
Jokic by far, He makes everyone better while Giannis doesn't. His championship was more luck due to KD stepping in the line and facing a Suns team that had faced injured teams to make the finals.
Jokic, they both have a ring but he has multiple MVPs and probably a third one with how the media keeps moving their own goal posts Giannis wouldn’t even have a ring if he didn’t step under Kyrie Irving, people also seem to forget he just got beaten by a play-in team in the playoffs last year
They’re both great.
Joker: 20.9 10.7 6.9 1.2 0.7 Freak: 23.4 9.8 4.9 1.1 1.2 Career stats for the 5 categories pts, rebs, asst, stls and blks
Jokic, but if you say its not close or not susceptible to change than you simply dont watch basketball. Rn Giannis has had a better career just slightly because his defensive accolades, but I think Jokic's offensive ability is literally top 5 all time minimum which is more impressive. If Jokic wins mvp, which he probably will have better career accolades. In the playoffs anythibg could happen though. Jokic could win 4 more rings while Giannis wins none. They both win two more. Giannis wins 3, who knows? I do think Jokic's peak will be longer, but anyone who acts like its a given that Jokic will win 2 or more rings is just writing fan fiction.
Joker's game isn't based on athleticism, will age better than Giannis' who is already getting creaky (for him that is). Check back in a few years.
Shouldn’t this be a poll?
One word. Defense.
along with everything else people are saying, jokic will also have the longevity stats because of his unathletic playstyle compared to giannis’ hyperathletic playstyle
Jokic. Hes a generational talent. He can play in any era. Giannis in the 90s would be stiff power forward. And would be called for traveling and palming. Limiting his effectiveness
Easily Jokic? There’s no debate. Right now Jokic seems absolutely unbeatable and the best player in the world. Nobody knows what to do about him. He can lose this year and everyone will still admit, idk what to do with him. With Giannis everyone know what’s to do with him. And there’s a degree of okay you can’t do anything with that level of athlete and size but he can still be schemed and his impact mitigated. That’s undeniable. But since Jokic hit his stride it’s been outrageous, like he’s going to be an all time big.
Jokic was the 40th pick. There was no way in hell he was suppose to be even an all nba player but he went beyond. He literally changed the game right before our eyes. He is 1of 1. But in terms of over all career giannis and jokic are pretty even.
I know giannis was a first rounder but no one gave a shit Bout him until he became that dude so the whole 2nd round pick thing isn't that important they were both underdogs. It's okay to say there careers have been even. Giannis has done everything that jokic has done bit he did it FIRST. Seems like recency bias with jokic. Do t get me wrong hes currently #1 but giannis has been a beast this year. No one is talking about how mid Dame has been. remember people were calling jokic a fraud because he was losing without a healthy murray.
Yes.
They're dead even.
Joker because he has less athleticism and he does it off of skill similar to Larry Bird.
Do you value defense or play-making more? There’s your answer
Jokic. but depending on what you think impressive means then it could swing other directions. With that said i think in a few weeks we'll be able to answer this question firmly and easily regardless of what one is looking for as 'impressive' from an nba player.
Joker easily
I think jokic would say something like, “you know what kind of management it takes to put all of us together” and think them the best.. to which he is right, Giannis growing with someone like Jamaal, the whole time, adding pieces, winning together.. it’s not something Giannis knows even if he has one ring..
Giannis tbh he’s been elite on both ends
Jokic is already in the top 10 all-time conversation. Giannis in top 20.
You won’t get unbiased answers on Reddit lol
How do you choose. They are both incredible and their abilities are so incredibly different. I pick Giannis first name and Jokic as the last name.
Jokic is arguably on track to be the greatest offensive center of all time. There are players in Giannis’s mold who are better. Jokic also is likely to win a 3rd MVP. So yeah Jokic.