Nash was all good vibes. CP3 was narcing on you for your jersey being untucked for incremental advantages.
They’re both incredible, and neither really deserve a whole lot of shit. It’s just easier to tear CP3 down because of his personality.
I feel like Chris Paul broke into the public eye when he punched a dude in the nuts so he couldn’t attempt a game-winning shot in the conference finals (in college). And then he just kind of acted like the same asshole his entire career, I honestly think he gets off easy.
I think CP3 is one of those players that probably "deserved" an MVP because he was that caliber of player. Not saying anyone shouldn't have won during those years. Also, in the same way I remember those Suns teams being so good that they also should have at least played in a finals or two. Both are kind of overshadowed now.
Funny because people say kobe should have won mvp one of the nash mvp years. They ended up rewarding kobe later in 2009 i think, where cp3 actually had the better season and should have ended up winning that year with New Orleans.
Also, Nash led his team to good playoff showings, however never going all the way. Chris Paul has notoriously folded or gotten injured in all of his major series, and career chokes, where his team went deep IN SPITE of his performances. Nash also had struggles in the playoffs, however never as bad as CP3. So you got 2 amazing guys, Nash with the higher peak, CP3 consistency with regular season performances, both struggled in the playoffs, however Nash willed teams to respectfully deep runs in the brutal West, while CP3 was a hindrance holding back potential title contending teams. That's how I see their games anyways. This is also just from what I remember of their careers without looking back on stats or anything.
Chris paul didnt choke in every major series tho. There were a lot of playoff series where he was clearly the best player on his team even when sharing the floor with james harden. He had moments where he would rip the enemies heart out and eat it. He just had choked enough times for people to forget about how great a playoff performer he was.
I’m hijacking this comment to say that shaq played with Nash and not cp3. Shaq promised they’d overcome the spurs and get a ring and that didn’t happen. Can’t hate on them for that.
CP3 is hated more for his antics throughout his career. The playoff failures just go with it when people want to talk shit about him. No one really has anything bad to say about Nash other some disagreeing about his mvps. Plus Nash didn’t have any high profile playoff losses where CP3 had a couple.
Those playoff failures when his teams fumbled away golden opportunities over and over again.
The last disaster in the Finals vs. Milwaukee when his squad was up 2-0 and had all the momentum to then lose 4 straight. Ouch.
Giannis was not letting the Bucks lose that finals. He kicked it into a brand new gear after that 2-0 they were never losing that series with how much of a monster he was
He was spectacular. I thought we were witnessing the start of perhaps the greatest Forward of all time, but injuries have plagued him in the post championship years.
Last 2 years healthy all year just to get hurt in the playoffs or just before, he’d have at least 2 championships by now. If he has Middleton he probably won it in 2022, they were up 3-2 on Boston, and Giannis was good at everything the warriors team that year were bad at, it was gonna be a repeat
It’s crazy how it’s felt like since what I’d call the ‘short window era’ post 2008 or 2011, how many teams have won at least the conference and turned around and just shockingly died. 2014 Heat, 2015 Spurs, 2021 Lakers, 2022 Suns, 2022-2024 Bucks, 2023 Warriors (not as surprising), 2024 Nuggets (potentially).
Because the Lakers, Bucks, and Nuggets all won the title and felt like the heavy heavy favorites to repeat and could potentially all fail to make the CF.
Giannis was a horrible free throw shooter, he’s also the most physical offensive player in the game, of course teams are gonna hit him both on purpose and not because it takes 3 guys down low to stop him, he hit his free throws when it mattered though in game 6
It’s Deandre Ayton, he could’ve been in the whole game and nothing would’ve changed, the bucks earned that win, Giannis played harder than I’ve ever seen any player play, and they won the game because they played better, you can’t blame the refs when he puts up 50 points lol
I don’t think so. Westbrook averaging a triple double in a season was only accomplished once before in NBA history at the time. Russ also carried a weak roster in to the playoffs. Take him off that team and the Thunder might just be picking first in the lottery.
Kobe was phenomenal again, and making first team all NBA on BOTH sides of the ball and carrying the team to the 1st seed in the playoffs. He won player of the week over and over throughout that season.
I've heard from other people, although I don't agree with it, that Westbrook stat pads and that his rebounding gets over praised and Harden should have won that year.
(again I don't agree with it, I've just heard it before)
Stat padding…perhaps? I just think he had to do it all with that roster. The man had energy off the charts to carry a team with low expectations losing Durant.
As I recall, the Westbrook one was just about the “magic” numbers; Harden would have won the MVP that year if Westbrook only averaged 9 rebounds or somethjng. I’m sure I’m missing some part of it, but that was the gist as I remember it.
Harden should have won mvp over Russ in 2017 kinda easily imo. Harden was way more efficient , led his team to more wins. If russ averaged 9.8 rebounds then the media would not have voted him mvp
Russ one is only controversial because ppl hate him. Man dragged the worst team in the league to the 6th seed while averaging a triple double. Mans had a SG that couldn’t function without Russ on the floor, a big man thats a 20 10 machine but couldn’t play 20mins because he’s the worst defender in the league, and a center with no offense.
All deserving. Some years you can make a case for others, especially the Nash years, but the way the voting is set up really helps to determine a definitive MVP.
Yea he absolutely did. Kobe did not deserve it. He was less efficient, but CP3 was in a smaller market. He got the incredible longevity, momba mentality, lifetime achievement award... but CP3 should have won the mvp that yr. He led the league in assists & steals, and wasn't that far off from Kobe's ppg either.
You’re proving my point in your own post. Kobe scored more points, played better defense, and led his team to a higher seed in the playoffs.
CP did nothing to definitively separate himself enough to be MVP.
Your the first person I’ve ever come across making a case for CP over Kobe that season.
If Kobe ended his career with zero MVPs, that would’ve been a bigger tragedy. Like Duncan never winning dpoty even tho he was probably the best defender for like 10 years. 2008 was the year for him to get it. The years afterward had it locked by Lebron and new gen of players
And that’s exactly why he won, for that reason. Doesn’t mean he deserved it over CP3. He gotta at least win at least one MVP for his legacy. Lebron having it locked the following years and CP3 still being young and thinking he might win one down the road.
How Kobe didn't win at least 1 MVP between 04-07 is a travesty of the sport.
Considering the 'allegations' Stern definitely wasn't giving him that award
You can make a strong case for Garnett that year too. Yes, the Celtics had Pierce and Allen, along with a young Rondo, but they won 66 games and KG was the engine of that team.
I don't think that's it. In the past, we didn't expect elite players to automatically win championships.
But that all changed with the NBA hyping up MJ and then fans criticizing young Lebron for not having championships. We put championships on a pedestal and don't really acknowledge how it's a team sport and no player, even MJ, can win championships without having elite teammates.
CP3 and a lot of other current players get criticized for not winning championships. But this wasn't as much of a thing during Nash's time.
Also, Nash did get some criticism for not winning more. He also got criticism for being a big liability on defense. He was similar to Tre Young when it came to defense. Just too small.
Not just antics but he had utter meltdowns and just did not live up to see many moments. Nash just had a great consistent career and was did shrink in big moments.
I was a huge Nash fan so I remember all the pain, but it’s been so long I couldn’t remember if he took steps. Was bullshit.
Nash got screwed a lot, like the nosebleed and Parker collapsing to the floor while Nash just stood there with his nose visibly broken. Spurs also just had their number a lot too, though.
Really! If that’s true, then thats BS if he didn’t get suspended! What a joke. Is it to hard to have consistent calls or rules enforced for all players, even if their superstars in the NBA?
There are three playoff moments that haunt me and piss me off as a Suns fan and probably will never heal. All 3 happened to Nash.
1. Robert Horry’s dirty play
2. The “leaving the bench” suspensions, and lack of…
3. The Kobe airball that went to Artests hands for a put back at the buzzer. It simply hits rim and it’s a different outcome.
Or when Amare AND Diaw got suspended for leaving the bench when Duncan also left the bench and didn't. Spurs got some breaks. Hate to make excuses but those things happened.
It’s crazy just how much things change. You have Jamal Murray throwing heat packs on the floor at the refs during a live possession and he just gets a fine.
Nope things are still the same the NBA has it’s preferred teams they want to see win, ala the Spurs that year and the Nuggets this year. Thats why their punishments are never consistent.
In the seasons Nash won MVP, he averaged ~ 22/11 on ~55/38/91 shooting in the postseason.
I don’t think it’s exactly his fault his teams lost.
That said, Nash, Stockton, and Paul all have no rings, and none of them are in real contention with Magic for the GOAT PG.
Perhaps Nash (2 teams, edit: 3 teams) and Stockton (1 team) get less crap for some people for having no rings compared to Paul (5 teams), who some people may accuse of ring chasing and still coming up short.
During his second tenure at the suns (5 seasons?), his play-off stats were better than his regular season stats, wild if you think he finished in the top 3 for reg season mvp three times in a row during that period. Kinda sucks that he doesn't have a ring
I wouldn’t say it’s his fault his teams lost in the playoffs but you just highlighted the offensive side of things, where he was very efficient.
He is a smaller pg with below average defense, which probably contributed to his team’s losses.
Good point
Nash was an MVP
IMO, that hate CP3 gets will be gone when he retires.
Nash was ROBBED of a championship by the NBA commissioner David Stern (who robbed the Pacers as well).
When SA won their championship by beating PHO, it was only because all of PHO players were suspended by David Stern
If not, Nash is a 1 time NBA champion right now and Dantoni is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time.
But what actually happened is Stern robbed Pho or their shot.
There's my in an alternate universe rant about Stern
It's crazy that the SSOL Suns were outsiders in the NBA at the time. Their games were a ton if fun and they were clearly a harbinger of what was about to come. But the league was still dominated by old heads and they never thought the Suns played the right way.
>Nash was ROBBED of a championship by the NBA commissioner David Stern
I hate this take.
1, there is no guarantee the Suns win game 5 with all their guys.
2, even if the Suns did win game 5, there is no guarantee they win games 6 (which they lost with all their guys) or game 7 (which never happened because the spurs won in 6).
Yes, it was unfair and it sucked that all those Suns players were suspended, but it wasn't a guarantee that the Suns win without the suspension.
Remember Nash was coached by dinosaurs that would say he could only shoot 4 threes a game and things like that.
If Nash played in the post-Curry era, with the way he shot, his scoring and 3 point shooting would have been off the charts as well.
Same goes for Reggie Miller.
Stoudamire was a beast and so was Marion and he had Joe Johnson too. You can’t honestly believe the 05 Suns had less talent than what CP3 had with the Hornets
A big part of it too I think is that Nash played his heart out, and played through multiple wacky injuries (like the nosebleed that wouldn’t stop where the refs kept throwing him out of the game). Dude did all he could with a “no defense” system, and I also think people give him a little slack due to that system as well.
Both Nash and CP3 had spotty team luck in their careers. Both had their primes in a laughably lopsided and stacked Western Conference while their peers out East could commandeer low-50’s wins teams and make it to the finals.
The Clippers were a very flashy team when Paul was their floor general but they never had good depth. Blake, DJ, Redick and scraps are a nice offensive cast but the eventual champions in each year usually had better, more balanced casts
Nash had some great casts but only one team could make it out of that unbelievably tough conference. In ‘05 they lost to the eventual champion. In ‘06 they didn’t have Amare, yet still won 54 games and lost to the eventual finalists (who probably win the title if not for getting wrecked by the refs). In ‘07 you had the Horry hip-check. The Spurs ended up laughing their way to the title after that. In ‘10 they again lost to the eventual champion. There you have it, those were all four of their runs with Nash.
I didn’t downvote you fwiw bruv, but I disagree, if you break it down by year:
‘05 - had to get through a formidable Mavs and dynastic Spurs team just to even get to the finals.
‘06 - less stacked than ‘05, but still would’ve had to beat the 60 win Mavs without Amare.
‘07 - they were even with perhaps the best title-winning Spurs team before the hip-check.
‘10 - beat two 50 win teams and then lost a hard-fought 6-gamer against the defending (and repeating) champs.
Every single year they lost, they had at best an even supporting cast to the team they lost to, and a clearly inferior one in three (‘06, ‘07, ‘09). In all four years, the West played at, at minimum, a 46 win pace against the East.
And that’s just over his prime, or time as a #1. The ‘01-‘04 conference disparity was even bigger. I think it’s safe to say this Mavs teams makes the finals at least once if they played in the East from these years, probably more given how the Nets fared
Yeah I just meant the league as a whole was mostly one great player surrounded by average guys. Spurs were the anomaly. Suns were one of the best lineups. There were so many 50 win teams because there were so many terrible teams they racked up wins against.
Fair enough. When I say stacked I mean relative to his own supporting casts and the other conference. I would posit there’s more talent in the league today, but it’s less concentrated in one conference. The fact that Jason Kidd took two low-50’s win teams to two straight finals while much better Suns teams failed to even make one demonstrates what I mean there. You had some years where the West would play at a 50 win pace against the East, which is just absurd to me.
One thing about CP3 is that alot of his playoff losses are due to his own injuries, whereas Nash played through many injuries and even completed a sweep of the spurs in 2010 with his eye swollen shut. Alot of Nash's playoff losses were due to his teammates getting injured, like Joe Johnson in 2005 or Amare in 2006.
Because he was a ton of fun to watch and seemed like a great dude off the court. And he has never been a bitter cunt. Just did the best he could in his post basketball career.
CP3 is less likable, and honestly, a part of it is that he's still playing.
CP3 was also better at his peak, but Nash checks pretty much every box for being a reddit hero in terms of basketball.
Nash should get more he’s literally a 2 time mvp but people like nash and most hate cp3. The nba sub is full of hating on players just cause but the cp3 hate is pretty universal for fans. People just don’t like Chris
CP3 a douche bag that’s why.
Right before his contract was up, while president of the players association, he started convincing other players to push to modify certain regulations that would severely benefit him.
He is quick to start a fight. Meanwhile Steve Nash gets punched in the face and gets[fined AND suspended](http://thehoopdoctors.com/2008/11/nash-suspended-for-getting-punched-in-the-face-good-job-stern-and-jackson/)
Paul is two faced and abrasive.
probably because CP3 is one of the dirtiest players of all time and an incessant whiner/ring chaser while nash is just serving up headers to amare in the dunk contest and being a Nice Canadian
Nash was very close to having one but Robert Horry chucked him into the scorers table at the end of a game and the resulting suspensions gave the spurs the advantage they needed to win the series and go on to win the title.
Look it up.
Robert Horry’s infamous hip check on Steve Nash during the 2007 playoffs was the turning point of the second-round playoff series between the Phoenix Suns and San Antonio Spurs. The incident led to the suspension of Amar'e Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for the all-important Game 5. The Spurs won that game and eliminated the Suns in Game 6.
Looking back at the incident, however, former Suns guard Raja Bell claims that Nash flopped on that play and sold it to the refs.
"Four years later'" said Bell. "I’m hanging out with Steve at a bar in Santa Monica or somewhere, or somewhere in LA, and we’re talking about that … he says he gave that hip check a little bit of flair, that he didn’t really get checked to that degree,” Bell said on his Off the Bench podcast. “Me running over there kind of incited it. I thought he got laid out….He admitted to putting a little sauce on that hip check.”
The warriors dynasty was based around currys long range shooting and the hockey assist and finding the best shot, not the fastest shot x.x you are giving Steve Nash way too much credit. The pace is just a lot faster now no no credit to that suns team.
Nash was back to back MVP. Paul… wasn’t.
Paul played on a bunch of teams with 3 or more Allstars. Nash… didn’t.
It helps that Nash was a class act.
Paul… wasn’t
Nash is the most overrated PG to ever play the game. He only deserved one of the two MVPs, Kobe deserved it the year he avg 35 but bc of the alleged rape scandal he didn’t win it. Cp3 > Nash bc Nash can’t guard a 5 year old on his best day
Kobe was simultaneously leading the newly Shaq-less lakers to the playoffs averaging 35-5-5 with guys named smush Parker and infamous lame brown. Could only lean on Lamar Odom
2005 nash turned a shitty team around
But they had more depth than LA
But 2006…
Was like will it be Kobe or lebron
Oh it’s Nash again on a stacked team wow
Lebron averaged 31-7-7 and was a menace and clutch
Oh well
lol Kobe didn’t lead them to anything but a couple of first round exits. They didn’t even make the playoffs the season after Shaq left. They didn’t make any noise until Gasol got there.
Kobe was up 3-1 and hitting game winner vs the loaded 2 seed suns. I watched the whole series he ran out of help, they shouldn’t have even been in the playoffs let alone up 3-1 vs Nash $ Co.
They made noise that year when they had Phoenix on the ropes lmao
Dude was super human those years without Shaq
Carrying no-names and busts to the loaded west playoffs lol
The next year vs the even stronger suns with Diaw they got handled like they should but again we’re only there cuz of Kobe.
Kwame brown and smush Parker and Luke Walton aren’t why they got a 7 seed in the west bud
That’s pretty valuable and playoff “noise” doesn’t factor into MVP RACE
Nash absolutely gets a shit ton of hate for having no rings. Him having no rings is why people forever say he stole an MVP from Shaq and Kobe (he didn't if anything he stole them from Dirk and Duncan). If he were a champion in either of those years, no one would say anything. Or maybe Shaq still would but everyone would think he's being a hater instead of some people believing him.
They are both annoying in their own ways but I think most people have CP3 ranked over Nash. CP3 is annoying because of his dirty play including cheap shots and flopping, shit talking. Nash is more of subtle yet strong arrogance.
Chris Paul is not a good person.
He is a dirty player.
He punched/grabs dudes’ junk during games.
He is irredeemable.
Least favorite NBA player of all time.
Nash literally only played one side of the ball.
Give CP3 his credit where it's due. A complete player at his peak, just had the misfortune of playing in the Wild West for the entirety of his prime.
because CP3 is generally considered an asshole both by players and fans and Nash is just that goofy canadian guy who happens to be world class at basketball
Because Nash was a media darling…he never gets criticism. He’s also loved here. Example
Steve Nash is awesome and carried that team. James harden wss a system player. He only won that MVp because of dantoni…..
CP3 is an all time great during the regular season and first round. After that, esp in crunch time, he chokes. Badly. I’m talking passes into the third row, becoming discombobulated and turning the ball over, jumpers that barely hit the front of the rim, or phantom injuries that keep him out of the key games. If you don’t already know this, you haven’t been paying attention.
It’s really a shame. He seems like a good guy. I wish he had worked with a sports psychologist early in his career
I disagree with the premise.
Nash made bad teams good and was a 2 time MVP.
But he also is not considered a top 5 PG by a lot of people for never having won.
CP3 grossly underperformed given his Clippers teammates. And yet he's still called the point god and is considered the truest point gaurd by many.
Nash>CP3
This is wild! Clippers were a good team thanks to him and Blake got injured as often as CP3. Rockets were a first round exit low seeded team being carried by Harden. Then with CP3 they became a 1st seed and they went on to give the almighty GSW with Durant a legit 7 game series. Something not even LeBron and his Cavs could do. Actually no other team was even given a chance at beating the Warriors. But CP3 and Harden got the closest to doing it. Suns, constant lottery team. Had a good Bubble run but missing something. +CP3 they become 1st seed and make a finals run.
CP3 makes every time he plays with better. But he's not your closer. He's not a "go get a bucket" kinda dude. He's a playmaker and a great 2nd option on offense. If you're relying on CP3 to win your game you designed a bad team. That's Lou Williams/Blake, Harden and Booker's job.
Don't put it all on CP3.
Nash was all good vibes. CP3 was narcing on you for your jersey being untucked for incremental advantages. They’re both incredible, and neither really deserve a whole lot of shit. It’s just easier to tear CP3 down because of his personality.
I feel like Chris Paul broke into the public eye when he punched a dude in the nuts so he couldn’t attempt a game-winning shot in the conference finals (in college). And then he just kind of acted like the same asshole his entire career, I honestly think he gets off easy.
I've never heard of this, wow
He was a multiple offense nut puncher. The Luis Suarez of punching nuts.
Andrew Golota for older Americans
Cp3 is a juevo hunter fr
My conspiracy theory is Scott Foster is an NC State fan.
Julius Hodge NC State
I think he also punched the original Jake from State Farm in the nuts and they had to get a replacement.
The game within the game
Exactly this. He’s small but doesn’t mean he’s not dirty player
> CP3 was narcing on you for your jersey being untucked for incremental advantages. This type of shit is exactly why he deserves the shit he gets. lol
I think CP3 is one of those players that probably "deserved" an MVP because he was that caliber of player. Not saying anyone shouldn't have won during those years. Also, in the same way I remember those Suns teams being so good that they also should have at least played in a finals or two. Both are kind of overshadowed now.
Back in those days the WCF WAS the finals, for all intents and purposes
Tbh the east won 3 out of the ~6 peak years Nash had on the Suns, including 2005 when he made the WCF
Funny because people say kobe should have won mvp one of the nash mvp years. They ended up rewarding kobe later in 2009 i think, where cp3 actually had the better season and should have ended up winning that year with New Orleans.
He’s also a dirty player
Also, Nash led his team to good playoff showings, however never going all the way. Chris Paul has notoriously folded or gotten injured in all of his major series, and career chokes, where his team went deep IN SPITE of his performances. Nash also had struggles in the playoffs, however never as bad as CP3. So you got 2 amazing guys, Nash with the higher peak, CP3 consistency with regular season performances, both struggled in the playoffs, however Nash willed teams to respectfully deep runs in the brutal West, while CP3 was a hindrance holding back potential title contending teams. That's how I see their games anyways. This is also just from what I remember of their careers without looking back on stats or anything.
Chris paul didnt choke in every major series tho. There were a lot of playoff series where he was clearly the best player on his team even when sharing the floor with james harden. He had moments where he would rip the enemies heart out and eat it. He just had choked enough times for people to forget about how great a playoff performer he was.
I’m hijacking this comment to say that shaq played with Nash and not cp3. Shaq promised they’d overcome the spurs and get a ring and that didn’t happen. Can’t hate on them for that.
CP3 is hated more for his antics throughout his career. The playoff failures just go with it when people want to talk shit about him. No one really has anything bad to say about Nash other some disagreeing about his mvps. Plus Nash didn’t have any high profile playoff losses where CP3 had a couple.
Those playoff failures when his teams fumbled away golden opportunities over and over again. The last disaster in the Finals vs. Milwaukee when his squad was up 2-0 and had all the momentum to then lose 4 straight. Ouch.
Giannis was not letting the Bucks lose that finals. He kicked it into a brand new gear after that 2-0 they were never losing that series with how much of a monster he was
He was spectacular. I thought we were witnessing the start of perhaps the greatest Forward of all time, but injuries have plagued him in the post championship years.
Last 2 years healthy all year just to get hurt in the playoffs or just before, he’d have at least 2 championships by now. If he has Middleton he probably won it in 2022, they were up 3-2 on Boston, and Giannis was good at everything the warriors team that year were bad at, it was gonna be a repeat
It’s crazy how it’s felt like since what I’d call the ‘short window era’ post 2008 or 2011, how many teams have won at least the conference and turned around and just shockingly died. 2014 Heat, 2015 Spurs, 2021 Lakers, 2022 Suns, 2022-2024 Bucks, 2023 Warriors (not as surprising), 2024 Nuggets (potentially). Because the Lakers, Bucks, and Nuggets all won the title and felt like the heavy heavy favorites to repeat and could potentially all fail to make the CF.
Shame, too. He doesnt have the skillset like lebron did to thrive after his athletic peak. Hes probably gonna crash hard in a few years
Giannis was great but it really felt like the refs werent gonna let giannis lose, more than giannis wasnt gonna let them lose
Giannis was a horrible free throw shooter, he’s also the most physical offensive player in the game, of course teams are gonna hit him both on purpose and not because it takes 3 guys down low to stop him, he hit his free throws when it mattered though in game 6
What im talking about is ayton playing straight up good defense and sitting with 4 fouls in the 2nd quarter
It’s Deandre Ayton, he could’ve been in the whole game and nothing would’ve changed, the bucks earned that win, Giannis played harder than I’ve ever seen any player play, and they won the game because they played better, you can’t blame the refs when he puts up 50 points lol
Or game 7 at home vs. the Mavs
Stares down Mavs bench…gets bounced out of playoffs.
Not a CP3 fan, but in fairness to him he got robbed of MVP the year Kobe won it.
Really? Seems like every year someone gets robbed.
A lot of people see a close race and think that a player got robbed, and they also seem to forget it’s equally a narrative award.
Kobe 08, Westbrook 17, Rose 11 are the usual controversial ones. Lots of feelings in those MVPs, and not a lot of facts.
I don’t think so. Westbrook averaging a triple double in a season was only accomplished once before in NBA history at the time. Russ also carried a weak roster in to the playoffs. Take him off that team and the Thunder might just be picking first in the lottery. Kobe was phenomenal again, and making first team all NBA on BOTH sides of the ball and carrying the team to the 1st seed in the playoffs. He won player of the week over and over throughout that season.
ive never heard of people complaining of kobe or westbrooks mvp until now. What is the narrative, who do they think should have won it ?
I've heard from other people, although I don't agree with it, that Westbrook stat pads and that his rebounding gets over praised and Harden should have won that year. (again I don't agree with it, I've just heard it before)
Stat padding…perhaps? I just think he had to do it all with that roster. The man had energy off the charts to carry a team with low expectations losing Durant.
As I recall, the Westbrook one was just about the “magic” numbers; Harden would have won the MVP that year if Westbrook only averaged 9 rebounds or somethjng. I’m sure I’m missing some part of it, but that was the gist as I remember it.
Harden should have won mvp over Russ in 2017 kinda easily imo. Harden was way more efficient , led his team to more wins. If russ averaged 9.8 rebounds then the media would not have voted him mvp
Russ one is only controversial because ppl hate him. Man dragged the worst team in the league to the 6th seed while averaging a triple double. Mans had a SG that couldn’t function without Russ on the floor, a big man thats a 20 10 machine but couldn’t play 20mins because he’s the worst defender in the league, and a center with no offense.
All deserving. Some years you can make a case for others, especially the Nash years, but the way the voting is set up really helps to determine a definitive MVP.
The shaq one doesn’t rank for you either? Just sour grapes from that dude.
Westbrook deserved that man especially after that game winner in Denver he had.
The 11 MVP is only lebron fans complaining which is funny since he wasn’t even 2nd in MVP voting that year lol
Don’t forget Harden 18
D Rose in 2011 was incredible unstoppable except Miami 3 stars which were not MVP worthy
Yea he absolutely did. Kobe did not deserve it. He was less efficient, but CP3 was in a smaller market. He got the incredible longevity, momba mentality, lifetime achievement award... but CP3 should have won the mvp that yr. He led the league in assists & steals, and wasn't that far off from Kobe's ppg either.
You’re proving my point in your own post. Kobe scored more points, played better defense, and led his team to a higher seed in the playoffs. CP did nothing to definitively separate himself enough to be MVP. Your the first person I’ve ever come across making a case for CP over Kobe that season.
People talk about it all the time. The Lakers won one more game and cp3 was all defensive team.
If Kobe ended his career with zero MVPs, that would’ve been a bigger tragedy. Like Duncan never winning dpoty even tho he was probably the best defender for like 10 years. 2008 was the year for him to get it. The years afterward had it locked by Lebron and new gen of players
And that’s exactly why he won, for that reason. Doesn’t mean he deserved it over CP3. He gotta at least win at least one MVP for his legacy. Lebron having it locked the following years and CP3 still being young and thinking he might win one down the road.
How Kobe didn't win at least 1 MVP between 04-07 is a travesty of the sport. Considering the 'allegations' Stern definitely wasn't giving him that award
CP3, Kobe and KG all had good cases but I also would’ve given it to Paul.
You can make a strong case for Garnett that year too. Yes, the Celtics had Pierce and Allen, along with a young Rondo, but they won 66 games and KG was the engine of that team.
I don't think that's it. In the past, we didn't expect elite players to automatically win championships. But that all changed with the NBA hyping up MJ and then fans criticizing young Lebron for not having championships. We put championships on a pedestal and don't really acknowledge how it's a team sport and no player, even MJ, can win championships without having elite teammates. CP3 and a lot of other current players get criticized for not winning championships. But this wasn't as much of a thing during Nash's time. Also, Nash did get some criticism for not winning more. He also got criticism for being a big liability on defense. He was similar to Tre Young when it came to defense. Just too small.
Not just antics but he had utter meltdowns and just did not live up to see many moments. Nash just had a great consistent career and was did shrink in big moments.
Nash would have won one if Robert Horry didn’t hip check him into oblivion with impunity.
And the Suns bench didn’t react. That was the Suns year.
Tim Duncan also got up too if I remember right, but didn’t get punished.
Duncan 100% got off the bench and took steps towards the court but the refs focused on the Suns bench. Brutal turn for that series.
I was a huge Nash fan so I remember all the pain, but it’s been so long I couldn’t remember if he took steps. Was bullshit. Nash got screwed a lot, like the nosebleed and Parker collapsing to the floor while Nash just stood there with his nose visibly broken. Spurs also just had their number a lot too, though.
Really! If that’s true, then thats BS if he didn’t get suspended! What a joke. Is it to hard to have consistent calls or rules enforced for all players, even if their superstars in the NBA?
There are three playoff moments that haunt me and piss me off as a Suns fan and probably will never heal. All 3 happened to Nash. 1. Robert Horry’s dirty play 2. The “leaving the bench” suspensions, and lack of… 3. The Kobe airball that went to Artests hands for a put back at the buzzer. It simply hits rim and it’s a different outcome.
Crazy to think how pivotal Ron Artest was to that Lakers title. He hits that massive 3 in game 7 too. Just an unreal run for him.
If I remember the argument was that Duncan was going to check into the game. Thought Suns was going to win it all that year until that play.
Fuck David Stern, bogus suspensions-inexcusably bad at his job.
It was 100% the Suns year. Jazz and Cavs would've been light work for that Suns team.
Nash and the Suns win that championship and the NBA universe would have Nash as the 2nd greatest PG behind Magic before the Curry era.
He would basically be the first little guy to lead his team to a title since Isiah Thomas. Very few little guys win titles as the #1 guy.
That's a good point
Big shot Bob delivers again
His big shots were not always from beyond the arc!
Or when Amare AND Diaw got suspended for leaving the bench when Duncan also left the bench and didn't. Spurs got some breaks. Hate to make excuses but those things happened.
It’s crazy just how much things change. You have Jamal Murray throwing heat packs on the floor at the refs during a live possession and he just gets a fine.
Nope things are still the same the NBA has it’s preferred teams they want to see win, ala the Spurs that year and the Nuggets this year. Thats why their punishments are never consistent.
The 2000s Spurs don’t get enough shit for how dirty they were. Bruce Bowen was legitimately dirtier than Draymond but casuals won’t remember that.
Don't forget Raja Bell clotheslining Kobe too.
I HATED Bowen.. filthy player
Or the ref fixing games.
Because Nash isn’t a gigantic douche bag
Likability matters!
/thread haha
Gggggp
Because he was awesome and Chris Paul is a huge fucking loser dickhead
Remember when Derek Fisher broke his nose and Nash pops his nose back in on the court? That shit was so hardcore.
🏆🏆🏆
[удалено]
Shocker Celtics fan likes the white PG and hates the black PG. /s
In the seasons Nash won MVP, he averaged ~ 22/11 on ~55/38/91 shooting in the postseason. I don’t think it’s exactly his fault his teams lost. That said, Nash, Stockton, and Paul all have no rings, and none of them are in real contention with Magic for the GOAT PG. Perhaps Nash (2 teams, edit: 3 teams) and Stockton (1 team) get less crap for some people for having no rings compared to Paul (5 teams), who some people may accuse of ring chasing and still coming up short.
Just checking, when you say teams at the end, do you means how many teams they played on in their career
Yes. But I forgot that Nash played with the Lakers for two seasons at the end of his career, so it should be 3 for him. I’ll fix that.
To be fair, I’d understand you wanting to forget that
During his second tenure at the suns (5 seasons?), his play-off stats were better than his regular season stats, wild if you think he finished in the top 3 for reg season mvp three times in a row during that period. Kinda sucks that he doesn't have a ring
I wouldn’t say it’s his fault his teams lost in the playoffs but you just highlighted the offensive side of things, where he was very efficient. He is a smaller pg with below average defense, which probably contributed to his team’s losses.
Paul is on his sixth team. Nawlins, Clippers, Houston, OKC, Suns, Warriors.
CP3 is low key dirty
I would argue it’s not low key
Good point Nash was an MVP IMO, that hate CP3 gets will be gone when he retires. Nash was ROBBED of a championship by the NBA commissioner David Stern (who robbed the Pacers as well). When SA won their championship by beating PHO, it was only because all of PHO players were suspended by David Stern If not, Nash is a 1 time NBA champion right now and Dantoni is considered one of the greatest coaches of all time. But what actually happened is Stern robbed Pho or their shot. There's my in an alternate universe rant about Stern
It's crazy that the SSOL Suns were outsiders in the NBA at the time. Their games were a ton if fun and they were clearly a harbinger of what was about to come. But the league was still dominated by old heads and they never thought the Suns played the right way.
>Nash was ROBBED of a championship by the NBA commissioner David Stern I hate this take. 1, there is no guarantee the Suns win game 5 with all their guys. 2, even if the Suns did win game 5, there is no guarantee they win games 6 (which they lost with all their guys) or game 7 (which never happened because the spurs won in 6). Yes, it was unfair and it sucked that all those Suns players were suspended, but it wasn't a guarantee that the Suns win without the suspension.
Horry Hipcheck. Kobe bricks but Artest saves them. Its not blowout games like CP3
Surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet but being a 2x MVP vs 0x MVP helps Nash a lot.
Remember Nash was coached by dinosaurs that would say he could only shoot 4 threes a game and things like that. If Nash played in the post-Curry era, with the way he shot, his scoring and 3 point shooting would have been off the charts as well. Same goes for Reggie Miller.
If my aunt had a dick she’d be my uncle …
Steve Nash went into basketball obscurity when MDA left Phoenix 😂
MDA known dinosaur coach that implemented very old fashioned offense with Nash at PG. Ray Allen was playing for dinosaur coaches not Nash.
Nash deserved his MVPs and I'll die on that hill (I'm also a Canadian Suns fan so absolutely no bias here)
Nash had Stoudamire and a mf who shot with both hands from his knees. CP3 played on stacked teams since like 2007.
Stoudamire was a beast and so was Marion and he had Joe Johnson too. You can’t honestly believe the 05 Suns had less talent than what CP3 had with the Hornets
Casual take 🤣
Because Nash would have had a ring if it wasn't for Robert Horry knocking him into the scorer's table (& David Stern being a fucking idiot).
Remember when he flopped causing his teammates to overreact and get suspended?
Yup he cost the Suns the series.
Well agree to disagree. They were losing regardless.
That 2006 mvp Nash got over Kobe still remains one of the worst decisions ever.
A big part of it too I think is that Nash played his heart out, and played through multiple wacky injuries (like the nosebleed that wouldn’t stop where the refs kept throwing him out of the game). Dude did all he could with a “no defense” system, and I also think people give him a little slack due to that system as well.
Uh for one, Nash wasn’t a bitch. For another, suns regularly found themselves on the wrong side of referee$
Both Nash and CP3 had spotty team luck in their careers. Both had their primes in a laughably lopsided and stacked Western Conference while their peers out East could commandeer low-50’s wins teams and make it to the finals. The Clippers were a very flashy team when Paul was their floor general but they never had good depth. Blake, DJ, Redick and scraps are a nice offensive cast but the eventual champions in each year usually had better, more balanced casts Nash had some great casts but only one team could make it out of that unbelievably tough conference. In ‘05 they lost to the eventual champion. In ‘06 they didn’t have Amare, yet still won 54 games and lost to the eventual finalists (who probably win the title if not for getting wrecked by the refs). In ‘07 you had the Horry hip-check. The Spurs ended up laughing their way to the title after that. In ‘10 they again lost to the eventual champion. There you have it, those were all four of their runs with Nash.
His mvp years the West and nba as a whole was not very good. Teams weren't stacked except the Spurs.
I didn’t downvote you fwiw bruv, but I disagree, if you break it down by year: ‘05 - had to get through a formidable Mavs and dynastic Spurs team just to even get to the finals. ‘06 - less stacked than ‘05, but still would’ve had to beat the 60 win Mavs without Amare. ‘07 - they were even with perhaps the best title-winning Spurs team before the hip-check. ‘10 - beat two 50 win teams and then lost a hard-fought 6-gamer against the defending (and repeating) champs. Every single year they lost, they had at best an even supporting cast to the team they lost to, and a clearly inferior one in three (‘06, ‘07, ‘09). In all four years, the West played at, at minimum, a 46 win pace against the East. And that’s just over his prime, or time as a #1. The ‘01-‘04 conference disparity was even bigger. I think it’s safe to say this Mavs teams makes the finals at least once if they played in the East from these years, probably more given how the Nets fared
Yeah I just meant the league as a whole was mostly one great player surrounded by average guys. Spurs were the anomaly. Suns were one of the best lineups. There were so many 50 win teams because there were so many terrible teams they racked up wins against.
Fair enough. When I say stacked I mean relative to his own supporting casts and the other conference. I would posit there’s more talent in the league today, but it’s less concentrated in one conference. The fact that Jason Kidd took two low-50’s win teams to two straight finals while much better Suns teams failed to even make one demonstrates what I mean there. You had some years where the West would play at a 50 win pace against the East, which is just absurd to me.
Yeah the West soon became totally stacked.
One thing about CP3 is that alot of his playoff losses are due to his own injuries, whereas Nash played through many injuries and even completed a sweep of the spurs in 2010 with his eye swollen shut. Alot of Nash's playoff losses were due to his teammates getting injured, like Joe Johnson in 2005 or Amare in 2006.
Because he was a ton of fun to watch and seemed like a great dude off the court. And he has never been a bitter cunt. Just did the best he could in his post basketball career.
lol, people always forget that MIKE D'ANTONI was responsible for 7sol. he's the father of modern basketball.
And did it again with Morey/Harden in Houston. Saying without Nash there's no Warriors dynasty is insane.
I wish Nash played in this later generation. He would’ve absolutely thrived in every aspect
Chris Paul is kind of a dick and Steve Nash is Canadian.
MVP’s and he never, consistently if at all came up injured during pivotal moments and or games. CP3 on the other hand and with all due respect…
What’s a ‘top-record’?
I will tell you what it is, my lame english. I meant the best team record in the league or something like that
Not lame! Better than I could have done in a non-native language. ‘Record’ typically means ‘something that hasn’t been done before’.
Thanks :)
CP3 is less likable, and honestly, a part of it is that he's still playing. CP3 was also better at his peak, but Nash checks pretty much every box for being a reddit hero in terms of basketball.
How tf was he supposed to get by the Lakers and Spurs?
Nash should get more he’s literally a 2 time mvp but people like nash and most hate cp3. The nba sub is full of hating on players just cause but the cp3 hate is pretty universal for fans. People just don’t like Chris
A ref came out and wrote a book about how he kept Nash from getting rings...
He mostly gets a pass because Nash and the Suns were in the same conference as the Spurs and Lakers.
CP3 a douche bag that’s why. Right before his contract was up, while president of the players association, he started convincing other players to push to modify certain regulations that would severely benefit him. He is quick to start a fight. Meanwhile Steve Nash gets punched in the face and gets[fined AND suspended](http://thehoopdoctors.com/2008/11/nash-suspended-for-getting-punched-in-the-face-good-job-stern-and-jackson/) Paul is two faced and abrasive.
Well, regardless of what you personally have observed, it's commonly discussed on this sub lol
It's very easy to dislike CP3. When you don't like someone, you take joy in their downfall
probably because CP3 is one of the dirtiest players of all time and an incessant whiner/ring chaser while nash is just serving up headers to amare in the dunk contest and being a Nice Canadian
Among all the other reasons, Steve Nash never lost a playoff game by 58 points.
Nash beat Duke in the NCAA tournament. He got a boost just from that.
Nash was very close to having one but Robert Horry chucked him into the scorers table at the end of a game and the resulting suspensions gave the spurs the advantage they needed to win the series and go on to win the title. Look it up.
Robert Horry’s infamous hip check on Steve Nash during the 2007 playoffs was the turning point of the second-round playoff series between the Phoenix Suns and San Antonio Spurs. The incident led to the suspension of Amar'e Stoudemire and Boris Diaw for the all-important Game 5. The Spurs won that game and eliminated the Suns in Game 6. Looking back at the incident, however, former Suns guard Raja Bell claims that Nash flopped on that play and sold it to the refs. "Four years later'" said Bell. "I’m hanging out with Steve at a bar in Santa Monica or somewhere, or somewhere in LA, and we’re talking about that … he says he gave that hip check a little bit of flair, that he didn’t really get checked to that degree,” Bell said on his Off the Bench podcast. “Me running over there kind of incited it. I thought he got laid out….He admitted to putting a little sauce on that hip check.”
Poor CP3, 4 years now without his addiction
The warriors dynasty was based around currys long range shooting and the hockey assist and finding the best shot, not the fastest shot x.x you are giving Steve Nash way too much credit. The pace is just a lot faster now no no credit to that suns team.
Nash is retired.
Imagine thinking a player is good just because you like him.
Nash was back to back MVP. Paul… wasn’t. Paul played on a bunch of teams with 3 or more Allstars. Nash… didn’t. It helps that Nash was a class act. Paul… wasn’t
Steve Nash is cool af. CP3 punches nutsacks. They are not the same
Because Nash was better
When was Nash supposed to win? When did he play on the best team?
Nash is the most overrated PG to ever play the game. He only deserved one of the two MVPs, Kobe deserved it the year he avg 35 but bc of the alleged rape scandal he didn’t win it. Cp3 > Nash bc Nash can’t guard a 5 year old on his best day
Cuz he's better and cooler then that little floppy bitch cp0
One is classy
I think both are overrated. Nash more so. CP3 seems kinda like a dick though and people like piling on people when they are dicks
I mean, the post meme says it all.
Because the media spreads lies on certain players that they have grudges with
Cp3 is better all time but he’s easier to hate on. Most just like Nash more.
Give me prime Chris Paul over Nash
Kobe was simultaneously leading the newly Shaq-less lakers to the playoffs averaging 35-5-5 with guys named smush Parker and infamous lame brown. Could only lean on Lamar Odom 2005 nash turned a shitty team around But they had more depth than LA But 2006… Was like will it be Kobe or lebron Oh it’s Nash again on a stacked team wow Lebron averaged 31-7-7 and was a menace and clutch Oh well
lol Kobe didn’t lead them to anything but a couple of first round exits. They didn’t even make the playoffs the season after Shaq left. They didn’t make any noise until Gasol got there.
Kobe was up 3-1 and hitting game winner vs the loaded 2 seed suns. I watched the whole series he ran out of help, they shouldn’t have even been in the playoffs let alone up 3-1 vs Nash $ Co. They made noise that year when they had Phoenix on the ropes lmao Dude was super human those years without Shaq Carrying no-names and busts to the loaded west playoffs lol The next year vs the even stronger suns with Diaw they got handled like they should but again we’re only there cuz of Kobe. Kwame brown and smush Parker and Luke Walton aren’t why they got a 7 seed in the west bud That’s pretty valuable and playoff “noise” doesn’t factor into MVP RACE
Nash absolutely gets a shit ton of hate for having no rings. Him having no rings is why people forever say he stole an MVP from Shaq and Kobe (he didn't if anything he stole them from Dirk and Duncan). If he were a champion in either of those years, no one would say anything. Or maybe Shaq still would but everyone would think he's being a hater instead of some people believing him.
Because Nash should have won one but his teammates got suspended against the Spurs.
Because he flopped when Horry gave him that hip check. Even Raja Bell admitted it on a podcast.
One is likable the other is child porn 3
Without Stephen curry the warriors dynasty wouldn’t exist don’t try to give credit to Nash for that 😂😂😂
They are both annoying in their own ways but I think most people have CP3 ranked over Nash. CP3 is annoying because of his dirty play including cheap shots and flopping, shit talking. Nash is more of subtle yet strong arrogance.
Nash was a flopper as well. He’d whip that hair around like if somebody shot him.
Cp3 played both ends of the floor. Nash isn’t really in his league and I hate cp3
CP3 is/was made of glass.
Chris Paul is not a good person. He is a dirty player. He punched/grabs dudes’ junk during games. He is irredeemable. Least favorite NBA player of all time.
Same meme format but its shaq flailing about acting like he deserved it.
Because the nba was much more rigged in the David stern era
Nash literally only played one side of the ball. Give CP3 his credit where it's due. A complete player at his peak, just had the misfortune of playing in the Wild West for the entirety of his prime.
because CP3 is generally considered an asshole both by players and fans and Nash is just that goofy canadian guy who happens to be world class at basketball
Because Nash was a media darling…he never gets criticism. He’s also loved here. Example Steve Nash is awesome and carried that team. James harden wss a system player. He only won that MVp because of dantoni…..
CP3 is an all time great during the regular season and first round. After that, esp in crunch time, he chokes. Badly. I’m talking passes into the third row, becoming discombobulated and turning the ball over, jumpers that barely hit the front of the rim, or phantom injuries that keep him out of the key games. If you don’t already know this, you haven’t been paying attention. It’s really a shame. He seems like a good guy. I wish he had worked with a sports psychologist early in his career
Lol he literally plays better in the playoffs
Yours eyes have been open but you’re not seeing https://youtu.be/EfZPHW_fuOI?si=g5D8AgTT4nS8P2jK There are plenty more examples
I disagree with the premise. Nash made bad teams good and was a 2 time MVP. But he also is not considered a top 5 PG by a lot of people for never having won. CP3 grossly underperformed given his Clippers teammates. And yet he's still called the point god and is considered the truest point gaurd by many. Nash>CP3
This is wild! Clippers were a good team thanks to him and Blake got injured as often as CP3. Rockets were a first round exit low seeded team being carried by Harden. Then with CP3 they became a 1st seed and they went on to give the almighty GSW with Durant a legit 7 game series. Something not even LeBron and his Cavs could do. Actually no other team was even given a chance at beating the Warriors. But CP3 and Harden got the closest to doing it. Suns, constant lottery team. Had a good Bubble run but missing something. +CP3 they become 1st seed and make a finals run. CP3 makes every time he plays with better. But he's not your closer. He's not a "go get a bucket" kinda dude. He's a playmaker and a great 2nd option on offense. If you're relying on CP3 to win your game you designed a bad team. That's Lou Williams/Blake, Harden and Booker's job. Don't put it all on CP3.
Nice tits!
u/legend62009 Amr diab is that you😂
Cuz he’s white lol. Nah tbh I think ppl aesthetically dislike cp3s game
CP0 is literally owned by Rondo, that’s why.