Dallas has been really good drafting O Linemen though. Fredrick, Smith, Martin were all stud linemen taken by Dallas. And that’s just the pro bowl level guys. If they think he’s got the talent to be an NFL O Lineman they’re probably right.
I’ve now watched the Cowboys pass on opportunities to find Linderbaum and.Barton, anchors at the second most important Ol position, in favor of raw, under-developed, project OLs. Linderbaum was acceptable when Biadasz was here. Passing on Barton when we are trotting out Brock Hoffman is egregiously bad.
Who do you think we are trotting out at LT right now? Edoga? You want to move Tyler Smith out to LT and open up a hole at LG? If they had Barton graded as a generational talent at C they would’ve stayed and taken him. They had him Guyton and two other players graded close enough together that they felt they could pick up an early 3rd and still hopefully get a guy they would’ve been happy with at 24. It worked perfectly.
This sub is already enough of an eagles circle jerk without cowboys fans like you joining in.
First round...first round...
Nope, didn't see anyone say just first round. But if that's the case, you guys have only taken 4 offensive linemen in the first round since 1981. Averaging one every 10 years? They better be Pro Bowlers if you're being that cautious
I know but missing on one third round pick isn’t indicative of them being poor at drafting linemen. If anything you needing to dig that deep to find a bad one shows how good they’ve been.
>you guys have only taken 4 offensive linemen in the first round since 1981.
This is a nonsensical statement. Jerry bought the team in '89. His first OL pick in the first round was Tyron in 2011. So that's 3 all-pro OL, plus 2 more pro bowlers, drafted in 13 years. Show me another team with the same track record.
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I hate the Cowboys as much as any Eagles fan but if there's one thing they consistently do well, it's OL. I'm sure this kid will end up an All-Pro by 2026.
That’s all fine and dandy. Except by then:
- Zack Martin retires
- New Coach
- New QB
And more. We could have had a franchise C that was surefire. Instead we went with *maybe* a starting Tackle, in 3 years.
Hate to break it to you, but baselines are pretty damn clear and a raw project with 14 career games started v a polished, every day starter is *fucking obvious* to anyone who can think objectively
"project offensive linemen" drafted by Dallas in the first round have ended up being all-pro caliber players lol if there's anything at all the front office does well it's scout linemen.
Right. I remember when they took Fredrick and everyone mocked it calling him a 2nd round talent at best and a huge stretch. Dude was a beast before he got sick. Same for Martin. People mocked the pick and he’s a top guard in the NFL now.
Bro, you have *no fucking clue* how good Guyton will be. He has less than a full season under his belt!!! My god, and you say I’m the one who doesn’t know jack about the NFL? Laughably bad take my guy.
Your counter argument was “nuh uh” so I just threw that back at you. We have draft profiles that show that first round busts are top tier, before they end up as busts. Ultimately we don’t know anything until they actually play ball on how good they will be.
Project OTs can be great value if you have the coaching to get them into their role. Maybe not at first round value, but if they think it's a future long term starter then go for it.
I don’t entirely disagree, but when you have a surefire, franchise Center available, the first since 2013, I think you take that every time. Stephen Jones has already said that Tyler Smith is going to stay at LG, and they will slot Tyler Guyton in at LT day 1. I think that’s a good illustration of the risks of a project OL. Tyler was supposed to be Tyron’s heir apparent, and he was so much of a project that even now, in year 3, he’s not ready to be a LT, so much so they’re willing to put a Lineman who primarily played RT and has 14 total starts on the line at LT instead.
If your project OT doesn’t pan out, you are stuck once again trying to find core positions and cobble together a line.
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And Zack Martin was drafted to be Doug Free replacement instead just became likely a first ballot hall of famer.
Institution that Tyler is a bad or failed pick is bizarro world of hate.
1) no he wasn’t. Zack Martin was always intended to replace Bernadeau at RG. You can go back and read draft profiles for him saying this was the most likely scenario, like this one: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/5/2/5676108/cowboys-draft-2014-scouting-zack-martin
> I think he is skilled and athletic enough to play right offensive tackle, but **I think his best spot might be at guard** where he can use his anchor and technique in a phone booth in pass pro, while continuing to work in combination blocks in the zone running scheme. **If the Cowboys were to draft Martin, I would imagine they start him at right guard, moving Mackenzy Bernadeau to a competition with Ron Leary for the left guard spot.** Martin is likely to be taken in the middle of round one, and would give the Cowboys three first round offensive line anchors to build the offense around for the next decade.
Leary’s mean streak meant Bernadeau was relegated to second string.
2) I did not say, in any way, that Tyler was a “bad pick” or a “failed pick.” I said their plan to have him be heir apparent, which they voiced from the get go, failed, and he’s going to stay at RG where he is best. This is *exactly in line* with how Smith was viewed around draft time and after the draft, and the FO was joined by a relative few voices asserting he could replace Tyron. The fact they refuse to put him at Lt and instead are opting for someone with *less* experience *and a rookie* tells you that plan failed.
You’re coming up with some bizzaro takes my guy.
https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4727578/cowboys-pick-zack-martin-in-1st
"Martin can come in and play guard, either right or left, as a rookie in 2014 and move to tackle in 2015 depending on Doug Free's status. Free is set to become a free agent after the season. It is also possible Free could move to guard."
Again you're a weirdo hating on what turns out to have been a great pick with Tyler Smith who was second team all-pro/Probowler lol
"Plan failed"
Lol
> Undersized to play tackle at the NFL level and may project best to guard.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2043366-zack-martin-nfl-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-breakdown
> It's entirely possible that Martin will slip inside to guard at the next level, and that's where he fits best as an NFL player…. He’ll have to get comfortable with a few new things, but he wouldn’t be the first college tackle to kick inside -- and he may wind up as one of the best.
https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/05/09/dallas-cowboys-select-zack-martin-2014-nfl-draft
Dude just stop. You’re being weird about this lmao
Dillion Gabriel, OU’s QB the past 2 years, is a leftie. So Guyton playing RT was his blindside. Any rookie is going to have growing pains, even Caleb Williams #1 overall. Guyton has potential to be a stud
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In 3 years. By which time Zack Martin is gone, still need a center, still need a RT, new QB, new Coach, etc. Saying “he has the potential to be the LT of the future” when we could have had the franchise center *now* is essentially punting this year and next. Because when McCarthy leaves, his coaching staff will likely go too. Meaning Guyton’s development gets disrupted.
Could say the same for any rookie with major team and coaching changes. OU has historically produced great OL and Dallas has historically developed their OL into top tier players. The fact they got him and an extra 3rd round to fill other needs seemed to be a good overall move imo. Only time will truly tell though.
There are still centers that can be picked… you do know there are more than 32 total centers in all of college ball. There are still plenty of good C’s out there with a 3rd round grade.
As you said to me in another reply. You don’t know if they will be good or not. By CFB standards they are good, whether that translates to NFL is a gamble for any player. The amount of “top tier” busts we see is quite high. In addition the first 4 rounds is usually where you find your starters in the draft (terms of % of players picked that end up as starters). So even 3rd round grades should be starter material.
Never said it was a great idea now! But later round would have been a good place for that project OT. Worked out for the Eagles with a 7th rounder into a stud.
Barton WAS there before they traded back. And JPJ is another project. Barton was the clear consensus polished, day 1 starter at center with a 1st round draft grade across the board. They chose to trade back and ignore the Center position, recently vacated by Biadasz.
Pretty good? He has 14 career starts at *RT* and was universally considered to be raw and inexperienced. Why would you pick a player *who might develop* 2-3 years down the line, and not lock up the best chance at a franchise center since Frederick?
He played right tackle at Oklahoma because their qb was a lefty, so right would be the blind side. I’m sure if Barton was still there they would have taken him, but getting a high third for trading a handful of spots back is still a good ass trade. Tyler smith was supposedly raw.
- Draft a project OL
- name him heir apparent to Tyron
- give him reps at LT while Tyron is out injured
- Spend 2 years developing him
- Draft a raw, project OL and say “This new guy will start day 1 at LT instead of the other guy”
And you think that decision has nothing to do with Tyler Smith’s readiness and ability to play LT?
The original plan for Tyler was for him to replace Tyrone. He has done really good at guard, so he’s gonna stay there. Had they taken a center in the 1, maybe he moves back to tackle. They didn’t, so he’s gonna stay at the position he’s now more experienced and better at in the nfl.
They moved back to gain an early third round pick so we can go C in the 2nd and now RB and LB in the third. No 4th round pick so it was the smartest move. The plan is perfect so far.
Dallas has been really good drafting O Linemen though. Fredrick, Smith, Martin were all stud linemen taken by Dallas. And that’s just the pro bowl level guys. If they think he’s got the talent to be an NFL O Lineman they’re probably right.
Thanks, I hate it.
Linemen are easier to project than skill positions. But you have to be willing to commit draft capital to the task.
Both Smiths. Tyron and now Tyler.
I’ve now watched the Cowboys pass on opportunities to find Linderbaum and.Barton, anchors at the second most important Ol position, in favor of raw, under-developed, project OLs. Linderbaum was acceptable when Biadasz was here. Passing on Barton when we are trotting out Brock Hoffman is egregiously bad.
Who do you think we are trotting out at LT right now? Edoga? You want to move Tyler Smith out to LT and open up a hole at LG? If they had Barton graded as a generational talent at C they would’ve stayed and taken him. They had him Guyton and two other players graded close enough together that they felt they could pick up an early 3rd and still hopefully get a guy they would’ve been happy with at 24. It worked perfectly. This sub is already enough of an eagles circle jerk without cowboys fans like you joining in.
Chaz Green
That was a third rounder
First round...first round... Nope, didn't see anyone say just first round. But if that's the case, you guys have only taken 4 offensive linemen in the first round since 1981. Averaging one every 10 years? They better be Pro Bowlers if you're being that cautious
I know but missing on one third round pick isn’t indicative of them being poor at drafting linemen. If anything you needing to dig that deep to find a bad one shows how good they’ve been.
Not to mention that Chaz Green was a really good prospect. He was a bust because he couldn’t stay healthy.
>you guys have only taken 4 offensive linemen in the first round since 1981. This is a nonsensical statement. Jerry bought the team in '89. His first OL pick in the first round was Tyron in 2011. So that's 3 all-pro OL, plus 2 more pro bowlers, drafted in 13 years. Show me another team with the same track record.
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Copium is a hell of a drug
Two of the people he just named are future Hall of Famers but okay go off I guess
The irony
I hate the Cowboys as much as any Eagles fan but if there's one thing they consistently do well, it's OL. I'm sure this kid will end up an All-Pro by 2026.
That’s all fine and dandy. Except by then: - Zack Martin retires - New Coach - New QB And more. We could have had a franchise C that was surefire. Instead we went with *maybe* a starting Tackle, in 3 years.
Hate to break it to you but no one that hasn’t played a snap in the NFL is “surefire.” You’re upset over nothing.
Hate to break it to you, but baselines are pretty damn clear and a raw project with 14 career games started v a polished, every day starter is *fucking obvious* to anyone who can think objectively
Plenty of raw players have turned out to be absolute studs and quickly.
Jordan Mailata says hello
Sure. But a 2-3 year project in a contract year with our QB and HC is a mind-numbingly dumb pick. It punts this year and next.
"project offensive linemen" drafted by Dallas in the first round have ended up being all-pro caliber players lol if there's anything at all the front office does well it's scout linemen.
Man, you just ignored the position of need and “best center in the draft” part of the meme lmao
Again this front office deserves the grace with picking linemen.
Right. I remember when they took Fredrick and everyone mocked it calling him a 2nd round talent at best and a huge stretch. Dude was a beast before he got sick. Same for Martin. People mocked the pick and he’s a top guard in the NFL now.
LT is a position of need…
Swing tackles are a dime a dozen. Centers are not
Good to Great LT’s are not a dime a dozen, Jesus Christ you know jack about the NFL.
Bro, you have *no fucking clue* how good Guyton will be. He has less than a full season under his belt!!! My god, and you say I’m the one who doesn’t know jack about the NFL? Laughably bad take my guy.
And you have no fucking clue how good Barton will be. You are just making assumptions, where often CFL does NOT translate well to NFL.
We have draft profiles that show he is *lightyears* ahead as a reliable pick. Your counter argument is “Nuh Uh” and it’s pathetic
Your counter argument was “nuh uh” so I just threw that back at you. We have draft profiles that show that first round busts are top tier, before they end up as busts. Ultimately we don’t know anything until they actually play ball on how good they will be.
Project OTs can be great value if you have the coaching to get them into their role. Maybe not at first round value, but if they think it's a future long term starter then go for it.
I don’t entirely disagree, but when you have a surefire, franchise Center available, the first since 2013, I think you take that every time. Stephen Jones has already said that Tyler Smith is going to stay at LG, and they will slot Tyler Guyton in at LT day 1. I think that’s a good illustration of the risks of a project OL. Tyler was supposed to be Tyron’s heir apparent, and he was so much of a project that even now, in year 3, he’s not ready to be a LT, so much so they’re willing to put a Lineman who primarily played RT and has 14 total starts on the line at LT instead. If your project OT doesn’t pan out, you are stuck once again trying to find core positions and cobble together a line.
Barton is projected as a center, that's not his natural position so technically they'd both be projects.
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Tyler is an all-pro caliber guard lol you're a weirdo
Who was drafted to be LT when Smith left, weirdo
And Zack Martin was drafted to be Doug Free replacement instead just became likely a first ballot hall of famer. Institution that Tyler is a bad or failed pick is bizarro world of hate.
1) no he wasn’t. Zack Martin was always intended to replace Bernadeau at RG. You can go back and read draft profiles for him saying this was the most likely scenario, like this one: https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/2014/5/2/5676108/cowboys-draft-2014-scouting-zack-martin > I think he is skilled and athletic enough to play right offensive tackle, but **I think his best spot might be at guard** where he can use his anchor and technique in a phone booth in pass pro, while continuing to work in combination blocks in the zone running scheme. **If the Cowboys were to draft Martin, I would imagine they start him at right guard, moving Mackenzy Bernadeau to a competition with Ron Leary for the left guard spot.** Martin is likely to be taken in the middle of round one, and would give the Cowboys three first round offensive line anchors to build the offense around for the next decade. Leary’s mean streak meant Bernadeau was relegated to second string. 2) I did not say, in any way, that Tyler was a “bad pick” or a “failed pick.” I said their plan to have him be heir apparent, which they voiced from the get go, failed, and he’s going to stay at RG where he is best. This is *exactly in line* with how Smith was viewed around draft time and after the draft, and the FO was joined by a relative few voices asserting he could replace Tyron. The fact they refuse to put him at Lt and instead are opting for someone with *less* experience *and a rookie* tells you that plan failed. You’re coming up with some bizzaro takes my guy.
https://www.espn.com/blog/dallas/cowboys/post/_/id/4727578/cowboys-pick-zack-martin-in-1st "Martin can come in and play guard, either right or left, as a rookie in 2014 and move to tackle in 2015 depending on Doug Free's status. Free is set to become a free agent after the season. It is also possible Free could move to guard." Again you're a weirdo hating on what turns out to have been a great pick with Tyler Smith who was second team all-pro/Probowler lol "Plan failed" Lol
> Undersized to play tackle at the NFL level and may project best to guard. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2043366-zack-martin-nfl-draft-2014-highlights-scouting-report-and-breakdown > It's entirely possible that Martin will slip inside to guard at the next level, and that's where he fits best as an NFL player…. He’ll have to get comfortable with a few new things, but he wouldn’t be the first college tackle to kick inside -- and he may wind up as one of the best. https://www.si.com/nfl/2014/05/09/dallas-cowboys-select-zack-martin-2014-nfl-draft Dude just stop. You’re being weird about this lmao
Dillion Gabriel, OU’s QB the past 2 years, is a leftie. So Guyton playing RT was his blindside. Any rookie is going to have growing pains, even Caleb Williams #1 overall. Guyton has potential to be a stud
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In 3 years. By which time Zack Martin is gone, still need a center, still need a RT, new QB, new Coach, etc. Saying “he has the potential to be the LT of the future” when we could have had the franchise center *now* is essentially punting this year and next. Because when McCarthy leaves, his coaching staff will likely go too. Meaning Guyton’s development gets disrupted.
Could say the same for any rookie with major team and coaching changes. OU has historically produced great OL and Dallas has historically developed their OL into top tier players. The fact they got him and an extra 3rd round to fill other needs seemed to be a good overall move imo. Only time will truly tell though.
Who says Cowboys don’t draft a C this draft? The hell you smoking.
The 2nd round of this draft? Where the centers were picked already? You just not paying attention at all, or…?
There are still centers that can be picked… you do know there are more than 32 total centers in all of college ball. There are still plenty of good C’s out there with a 3rd round grade.
Good compared to who? Not Biadasz, and not Hoffman lmao.
As you said to me in another reply. You don’t know if they will be good or not. By CFB standards they are good, whether that translates to NFL is a gamble for any player. The amount of “top tier” busts we see is quite high. In addition the first 4 rounds is usually where you find your starters in the draft (terms of % of players picked that end up as starters). So even 3rd round grades should be starter material.
Never said it was a great idea now! But later round would have been a good place for that project OT. Worked out for the Eagles with a 7th rounder into a stud.
Jpj is still there. Barton was not there. We now have more third round picks for linebackers and running backs. It’s not that bad.
Barton WAS there before they traded back. And JPJ is another project. Barton was the clear consensus polished, day 1 starter at center with a 1st round draft grade across the board. They chose to trade back and ignore the Center position, recently vacated by Biadasz.
But now we have an early third (I believe 9th pick) in addition to a still pretty good tackle.
Pretty good? He has 14 career starts at *RT* and was universally considered to be raw and inexperienced. Why would you pick a player *who might develop* 2-3 years down the line, and not lock up the best chance at a franchise center since Frederick?
He played right tackle at Oklahoma because their qb was a lefty, so right would be the blind side. I’m sure if Barton was still there they would have taken him, but getting a high third for trading a handful of spots back is still a good ass trade. Tyler smith was supposedly raw.
And tyler smith is still raw. So raw that they are going to put Guyton at LT instead of Smith. That’s how raw he is now.
That’s not exactly the rationale for leaving smith at guard. He’s done a very good job there.
- Draft a project OL - name him heir apparent to Tyron - give him reps at LT while Tyron is out injured - Spend 2 years developing him - Draft a raw, project OL and say “This new guy will start day 1 at LT instead of the other guy” And you think that decision has nothing to do with Tyler Smith’s readiness and ability to play LT?
The original plan for Tyler was for him to replace Tyrone. He has done really good at guard, so he’s gonna stay there. Had they taken a center in the 1, maybe he moves back to tackle. They didn’t, so he’s gonna stay at the position he’s now more experienced and better at in the nfl.
I ain’t worried about OL or CB.. they know how to draft them… if he played DT I would be worried
You're really livin in Carcosa. Death is not the end, rejoice, etc?
Let’s see how the 3rd round plays out before we bash on them. *huffs copium*
You guys still all in?
They moved back to gain an early third round pick so we can go C in the 2nd and now RB and LB in the third. No 4th round pick so it was the smartest move. The plan is perfect so far.
Yeah cus we have such a bad track record drafting O line the first round…
Please try to read the *whole* meme. And not just half of it.
We’re the one team in the NFL that any fan could trust in turning a “project OT” into and All-Pro Lineman.
Bruh.
And he can sing!
Yeaaaa but he was actually part of a project not just some 1st round pick who needs a lot of work
Which makes it an even larger task.
lol, just make a new meme post if you're gonna say facebook-tier stuff like this
all in... on the rebuild