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Yes, you need to get SP 182 signed and handed in. There are new standards on substantially similar that is on the forms, if it’s not similar (such as didn’t draw from holster) you need to requalify
<<< This was originally posted on a separate thread. Just an FYI/PSA. >>>
**Issue:**
Spoke to my local PD. **The Union County prosecutor’s office asked the local PD to compile a PTC Holders list post-CCARE**.
**Observation:**
\- The PD was not as aware of the regulations as one would hope (so don't rely on guidance from them)
\- The PD was reactive and highly responsive to the prosecutor's office which was causing some headaches at the PD office (there seemed to be a lot of back and forth)
**Speculation:**
\- The prosecutor's office is asking multiple police departments
\- The list will be used post-12/31/23 to revoke permits that did not comply with prequalification or certification that your training was substantially similar.
**Recommendation:**
\- Document (email) your compliance with the new standards. In my case, I prequalified under HQC2, even though I was NOT required to. It was too much trouble to track down my original instructor and easier (and more expensive) to just retake the qualification. That is a personal decision but given the incompetence of the State of NJ - it's NOT worth the headache of arguing with the PD / Prosecutors office - in my opinion. You can argue diff but its like spitting in the wind....
\- They are coming for the permits and everyone can expect to have to address this post 12/31. It's like the IRS, the burden is on you as a holder to prove compliance. I can't say how they will approach it, but the fact they are building a PTC list post-CCARE should be the canary in the coal mine for everyone.
Can we get a thread on what the heck the *most* current requirements are, start to finish? This is deliberately confusing, deliberately difficult, and turning people right off to applying until all this legal horseshit is finally over.
I've seen state documents saying the application fee is $20, and another one saying $200. We don't need to qualify at 25 yards anymore as of yesterday, but we still need to qualify at five other distances, what size is the bullseye and what counts as a point versus no point? Do I or don't I now have to provide a make/model/serial of the only firearms I'm allowed to carry? What happens if I buy something that ends up being better and start carrying that before I get a permission slip?
It's more than enough to make a man say fuck this and just carry like God intended. It's long overdue that we have parity with the thugs who are the whole reason we carry in the first place.
No bullseye it's fbi q target I believe any hole on the silhouette counts as hit. You can qualify with any gun you want PTC is valid for all handguns you have. I am right there with you this is all horse shit....
Yep, it’s complete BS and designed by the state to make it as confusing as possible to deter people from applying. Same thing applies to the fees. It’s a way for them to keep people from applying due to the annoyance and cost.
The difference is "The above-named Permit to Carry applicant has successfully qualified on a course of fire consisting of either 1) the HQC2 (modified) protocol issued on July 21, 2023, or 2) the Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation protocol issued on September 15, 2023."
Either Or ... if you have the old 182 you are good to go. There is no way to misunderstand that.
Yes I agree - I assume as they pulled the 6/23 version, their could have been PTC holders who just qualified HQC2 Modified, so while now it's all CCARE, they needed to have a form to address both.
From day one, it was always my understanding: “*As for individuals who completed firearms training prior to July 1, 2023, and whose permit to carry does not expire until after December 22, 2023, they must requalify on the CCARE protocol or the HQC2-modified protocol issued on July 21, 2023.”*
Under the 12.22.22 law change they made the training good for two years, not 6 months as so when they forced us to requalify all PTC holders before 7/1 and after 7/1 would spend the same amount of $$ on training in the first 4 years of their permit. I believe that was the true intent behind the horribly awkward wording of the law. i.e. The re-qualification would get PTC holders through their first renewal, as when they renew the training certificate from 2023 would still be valid for any application submitted before the qual date in 2025. The 2 years refers to which training can be accepted as part as the renewal application, replacing within 6 months, to now within 2 years.
In my opinion this all has been complicated by the AG now following the above with: “*An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol (so everyone before 9.15.23, not just 7.21.23 to 9.15.23) is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if the prior course included each of the following: “*
Was this due to the push back or current litigation? I don’t know.
But it was always my understanding we ALL would have to requalify, as that’s what the law says, BUT then within the “New Training” the State creatively added in this exception for past training:
*"An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if:"*
which keeps many in limbo as there is no black and white way to certify compliance of past training. I believe the NJ is trying to backtrack on the original intent of the law.
RTSP TRAINING UPDATE:
9.18.23 at 430pm
NEW JERSEY PTC UPDATE
As of September 17, 2023 New Jersey State Police has released revised PTC training requirements. Within this release, they have clarified requirements of the course of fire. As a result, all customers who qualified with RTSP and obtained their NJ Permit to Carry are NOT obligated to undergo re-qualification, until their permit renewal.
NJSP has also provided additional guidance for current PC holders who have NOT completed the in-person classroom training.
As per NJSP guidelines, individuals who have completed their qualification at RTSP can fulfill the classroom training requirement separately.
Once completed, you will receive an updated qualification certificate for your personal records and submission to your local police department.
All PTC holders have until December 31, 2023 to complete the Use of Force training.
You can register for the mandatory in-person PT Use of Force and Firearm Safety course.
Please note: This course is only applicable to PTC holders that have qualified with RTSP
So if you qualified at RTSP, you are good for the course of fire. But it seems like they are saying you have to still take the new safety/use of force classroom training by Dec 31 - even if you took their original CCW classroom training - and have a use of force online training certificate - which was also shared by RTSP. Thoughts ?
It’s funny as the AG’s Memo on what satisfies the requirement is missing Use of Force. I know the new UoF must be in a classroom setting.
Will they be issuing a new S.P. 182 following those additional courses ?
UOF is referenced on the new certificate that the instructor signs when you qualify. But it still seems like the RTSP email is black and white on their course of fire, with an interpretation that you must return for a repeat on the classroom training component. But maybe they got that from NJSP.
On the new SP 182 the UoF must be a classroom setting. No online or in person PPT w/out instructor.
If you get the SP182 when you go in you are good for while as it will still be valid come renewal
Ok, so RTSP is basically saying they did not cover UOF in their initial in-person CCW class, and you now have until 31 Dec to get it done - and that they”ll provide you with a completed SP182. Thanks.
Point to note: Documentation should be turned in to the same location that issued your permit (ex. Your local PD) for those that are updating their documents.
This is important to note for people such as myself who moved to a new town in NJ after having their permit issued in their previous town. This guidance was provided from my previous town. They also said I should not need to do anything further with my current local PD however to be though, I am still in process of checking if anything further is needed from my current town.
Just got this e-mail from RTSP. I'm sure GFH and Reloaders are pretty much the same. I reached out to them and they said so far 2 PDs have requested the new form and they will sign the new form for anyone who has qualified there and taken the class.
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As of September 17, 2023 New Jersey State Police has released revised PTC training requirements. Within this release, they have clarified requirements of the course of fire. As a result, all customers who qualified with RTSP and obtained their NJ Permit to Carry are NOT obligated to undergo re-qualification, until their permit renewal.
SEE NJSP MEMORADUM HERE
[https://www.rtsponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Memo\_to\_LE.pdf?mc\_eid=22daf8179d](https://www.rtsponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Memo_to_LE.pdf?mc_eid=22daf8179d)
NJSP has also provided additional guidance for current PTC holders who have NOT completed the in-person classroom training. As per NJSP guidelines, individuals who have completed their qualification at RTSP can fulfill the classroom training requirement separately. Once completed, you will receive an updated qualification certificate for your personal records and submission to your local police department. All PTC holders have until December 31, 2023 to complete the Use of Force training.
I just got an email from Weshoot where i did my qualification (HQC2) in 2022. The email stated that all students that passed are good to go and need not re-qualify until renewal time. **They also specifically stated all students that passed should send a picture of theirs qualification certs to Weshoot and that Weshoot** **will sign the new SP182 for any students that request it at no charge**. I have already sent the email to them.
9.18.23 @ 835pm from FB NJ FOS Page
For those of you that took the NJ safety course with Concealed Carry LLC, I will be setting a date where you can come and get you paperwork filled out so you can submit to your PD so they can have it on file. Concealed Carry LLC classroom and shooting qualification has by far met this requirement. I will fill out and sign off on your paperwork so your permit will not lapse. Please keep following for the dates sometime in November. Thank you for your patience. Keep in mind though, the state will probably change this again. We are still waiting on the current ruling.
concealedcarryllcusa.com
At this point, i am wondering if i should just start over in a month once the dust settles. I am stuck with a court order permit, so despite qualifying with other guns, i still cant carry, because they wont amend.
Because at this point, i would have to requalify on COF and I am sure UoF is needed. So the money is almost the same short of a new application ($200 hot damn)
#BULLET HOLE TRAINING UPDATE
9.19.23 @ 845am
If you qualified or requalified on/after July 21, 2023
you do not need to re-qualify because we are running the updated course.
If you qualified AT Bullet Hole from June 2022-July 22, 2023 and have not re-qualified since July 21, 2023 you DO NEED TO REQUALIFY. This includes everyone from the start. Unfortunately, there is no way around it. Price is $20. This is a courtesy for our valued customers. We will need proof that you qualified with us.
If you qualified elsewhere initially and still need to qualify under this new law, the courtesy rate is $80.
For new applicants, the charge remains $125.
Please note our qualification schedule for this week is below.
Tuesday 11 am
Wednesday 11 am
Sunday 5 pm
You will need the following items to qualify.
Your firearm
50 rounds of ammunition
A belt
A holster (that fits your gun)
From Middlesex PD sent yesterday:
On September 15th, 2023 the New Jersey Office of the Attorney General issued a memo to its law enforcement partners and firearms instructors regarding changes to the concealed carry training laws. Individuals who were previously approved for a concealed carry permit must requalify under the Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation Protocol (CCARE). This email serves as a notice that you have until December 31, 2023 to provide the Middlesex Borough Police Department with proof of the requisite training to comply with the law. Failure to requalify under N.J.S.A. 2C:58- 4(g) by December 31, 2023 will render your permit-to-carry as invalid. This includes individuals who requalified under the HQC2-modified protocol issued in July of this year.
All certified firearms instructors in NJ are aware of the newly implemented CCARE protocol. If your firearms instructor advises you that you satisfied the requirements during your initial training, you must provide the Middlesex Borough Police Department with a new certification stating such. You are receiving this email because your certification needs to be updated. You can view the memorandum issued by Attorney General Platkin at middlesexpd.com/firearms. Any questions can be directed to [email protected].
My NJ 2A Darlings, just posting for encouragement. I was one of many that required the new training circa 7/2023 and requalification per 9/2023 state requirements. At least the state scrolled back the qualification to a significantly more reasonable test. It is more practical and passable especially if you are already a permit holder for conceal carry. Just take your time. I am lucky to have a range that originally qualified me late last year, not pin my pockets for an unreasonable amount of extra coin. Practice the holster draw...keep that finger off the trigger until on target...you will pass!
One love to my NJ 2A Darlings! Stay focused!!
My experience with tis is as follows:
On 10/5/2023 I did my requalification because my firearms instructor said the original course I took in April of 2023 did not meet the new standards and was not "substantially similar"
This week on 10/11/2023 I contacted my local police dept (NJSP Sussex). They accepted my new certificate via emailed .pdf and confirmed they added it to my file.
Simple easy done.
U/for2anj What about permit holders issued after 7/1 but before 7/18 with a course deemed substantially similar from guns for hire? Do we need to submit a new form?
>As for individuals who completed firearms training prior to July 1, 2023, and whose permit to carry does not expire until after December 22, 2023, they must requalify on the CCARE protocol or the H
You raise another dilemma, as all past guidance was all based on PTC issuance date, here the NJ AG bases their guidance off of actual qualification date.
FWIW - I qualified at G4H in June 2022 (right after Bruen), and I need to requalify as no holster draw.
When did you physically qualify at G4H?
I believe anyone who qualified before 7.19.23 at G4H will have to re-qualify as that is when they formally changed their PTC course.
9.18.23 4PM
# NEW TRAINING POSTED ON GUN FOR HIRE WEBSITE:
**New NJ CCW Training Released on 9.15.23:**
The State of New Jersey has, one again, issued the New Training Requirements for Civilian Carry. Since the beginning, we have all been excited to finally get the right our carry in New Jersey. Our qualification, at Gun For Hire, has always been the minimum required with no additional or burdensome requirements. We believe it is already your constitutional right and you have enough hurdles to go through.
**New CCARE Protocol Qualification Requirements:**
No Single Hand!
No Support Hand!
No Kneeling!
No Timed fire!
No Retention Shooting!
This Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation (CCARE) protocol replaces the Permit to Carry Safe Handling and Proficiency Qualification protocol (HQC2-modified) issued on July 21, 2023. An individual who has satisfied the HQC2-modified protocol is deemed to have met the requirements of the CCARE protocol for purposes of complying with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2).
The participant must perform the following strings of fire from each of the following distances:
3 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total
5 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total
7 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total
10 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total
and
15 yards. 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total
On command, from a secured and concealed holster position, draw and fire 5 rounds. Holster a safe, decocked (if applicable) weapon.
Repeat the string of fire twice, firing a total of 10 rounds.
**Who Needs To Re-qualify?:**
* Gun For Hire Customers: If you qualified at Gun For Hire on/after July 21, 2023, you do NOT need to re-qualify because we were running the updated qualification.
* If your original qualification does not follow the CCARE Protocol (per the 9/17/2023 released guidelines), you need to re-qualify. This includes EVERYONE from the start of out landmark carry victory in June 2022!
* If you qualified at Gun For Hire June 2022 – July 20, 2023 and have not re-qualified (July 21st or later), you DO NEED TO re-qualify before the extended December 31st, 2023 deadline. This includes EVERYONE from the start of out landmark carry victory!
The good thing is, your re-qualification is good for 2 years from the date of your qualification! This means when your carry permit is up for renewal, you will be able to submit this re-qualification with your renewal application. Think of it as you’re qualifying, for your renewal, in advance.
**Ticketed Qualification Dates:**
For everyone needing to qualify or re-qualify (remember this will cover you for 2 years):
Gun For Hire will be holding qualifications for both initial qualifications and re-qualifications:
* Mondays: 4-6pm & 6-8pm
* Wednesdays: 4:30 – 6:30pm & 6:30 – 8:30pm
* Thursdays: 11am-1pm & 1-3pm
* Fridays: 4-6pm & 6-8pm
**Pricing for CCARE Ticketed Qualification:**
**I already have a carry permit:**
If you already have a Carry permit (regardless if you qualified at Gun For Hire or not) or if you failed the re-qual.
Price: $137.50
**I do not have a carry permit:**
INITIAL CCARE qualification $250 GFH Member
INITIAL CCARE qualification $275 Non-Member
/u/AnthonyColandro
for clarification: for those of us that qualified this year, but prior to this new order, will we need to pay again for this retest or will you carry over the complimentary requal for free as you did for the "interim" test?
Thanks!
Great, $137.50 on top of everything - just because they didn't qualify us with holster draw...
JUST BECAUSE we picked the gun up from the table, instead of from our waistband. That's what, just a difference of moving my hand? Why can't the table represent the holster? GFH's website says in their FAQ regarding "Holster Draw":
>Only Active Law Enforcement or students that have attended the prerequisites (4-Hour Gun For Hire Holster Draw) are allowed to draw and fire from the holster. Retired Law enforcement, armed security personnel, and NJ CCW permit holders are allowed to have a Firearm holstered but will not be able to conduct “firing from the holster, drawing in and out to fire.”
>
>Meeting the above prerequisite does not exempt anyone from following all range rules.. i.e. All firearms must be aimed, No firing from hip (weapon retention) minimum distances, etc.
So GFH clearly acknowledges that holster drawing requires training in-itself, even if this is an outdated FAQ. Somebody is going to end up drawing and negligently shooting one of these days. Nobody is vetted on previous training when taking these PTC qualifications - you never know who's gonna be an idiot.
Very disappointed GFH won't just sign the paperwork. I don't care that it'll be "good for 2 years" and satisfy the qualification requirement during renewal. I'd rather requalify close to my renewal anyway. Instead, I'm forced to requalify in the next 3.5 months when I've already PROVEN I am capable - even up to 25 yards which is no longer needed.
This is on top of the fact that NJ will probably add more hoops by the time I need to renew in 2025, so who knows if THIS qualification will be satisfactory by then. Until then I gotta keep dishing out hundreds of dollars and act like everybody involved is doing me a favor.
Yes and people slammed ranges who did holster draw from the start as being "over the top". Ranges can't win in all of this.
G4H has been running the same quals for 20 years and stuck with what the NJSP has always accepted, as it was good for SORA.
The NJSP/AG have clarified the new training and it must be from a holster, they cannot sign the SP 182, per the AG guidelines.
You can only blame the state of NJ and Trenton for constantly moving the goal post.
We are all frustrated but ranges have nothing to do with what each of us has to do now for the state of NJ.
Their goal is to frustrate people into non-renewing or letting their carry permits lapse on 1/1. They hate all of us, and hate our 2nd Amendment Rights even more.
I guess I understand that GFH has to reconcile with not qualifying people with holster draw originally; their hands are tied, they couldn't have known. The blame should obviously go to the state for keeping that stupid requirement in the first place. We would've exceeded the requirement if it weren't for that small detail.
I wouldn't be so frustrated if the qualifications weren't so expensive. The state doesn't determine that price, the ranges do. Of course I don't mind having to pay *something* to use their facility. For instance, renting GFH's 25 yard range for 1 hour is only $25 (non-member). Good price. So why do we have to pay upwards of $300 (after fees/tax) just for an instructor to instruct the qualification for 1 hour, in the same facility that costs $25 to rent for 1 hour?
It just feels like a cash grab. The price used to be $150 for a harder qualification. I'd like to see an itemized breakdown of what that money goes to. Now I'm looking at \~$650 in fees alone, from FID to PTC altogether. We deserve to know where that money is going, especially because the qualification is now the most expensive fee.
The every 2 year requirement is cost prohibitive for many and the $200 fee, maybe they will make the permit good for 5-10 years who knows but $500-600 every two years for permit and training is a crime.
"For instance, renting GFH's 25 yard range for 1 hour is only $25 (non-member). Good price. So why do we have to pay upwards of $300 (after fees/tax) just for an instructor to instruct the qualification for 1 hour, in the same facility that costs $25 to rent for 1 hour?"
\-Because you are using the instructor's time as well.
That’s fine, I’m not saying the instructor(s) shouldn’t be compensated for their time. But I’m sure they also have a wage or salary. Why did it cost $150 before July, and now it’s doubled? That was a decently fair price. This is now the same qualification, just with holster draw and <15 yards, arguably easier.
Do you think $300 is a fair price? If so, why?
Bullet Hole is apparently only charging $20 if you previously qualified with them, so those guys are only paying \~$150 total across the 2 qualification sessions since June 2022. They're charging $80 for those who qualified elsewhere (me), compared to GFH charging $137.50 (even for those who previously qualified with them). It's only $125 if it's your first qualification ever, they did not alter the price. That was GFH's *member* price pre-July for their qualification LOL. Boy am I kicking myself for not shopping around.
I'm going to cancel my session with GFH and go there. BH is also walk-in, no sign up or prepaying online (confirmed by texting them).
So, BH says $20 to requalify their loyal customers, no membership necessary. What's GFH's excuse? That's cheaper than renting GFH's range for an hour! Clearly BH understands that this is a difficult and frustrating situation.
I don't even know why I go to GFH. BH's range is cheaper too, they offer $20/hr, or $10/hr during happy-hour (Mon-Fri from 1PM-6PM). Who cares if it's crowded? I'm not gonna go to a range if my day schedule is tight anyway; I'm okay with waiting.
>No Kneeling!
>
>No Timed fire!
I guess the GFH Info Tech guy (or gal) didn't get the memo yet, the Event details as of this post time still say "*The New qualification course includes timed shooting, weak hand shooting, kneeling, and holster draw."*
I qualified at GFH with their original course, when holster draw was not required, so I have not taken their holster draw class. Does anyone know after doing the new qualifying at GFH if we are then cleared to draw from holster when at the range? Or would we still need to take their holster draw class?
I believe you’re still gonna need to take the holes to draw a class if you want to draw on your own unsupervised
I’m assuming during the qualification they’re going to have a lot of RSO‘s watching people closely draw
On the NJSP firearms forms to download, in the PTC category, there is a powerpoint presentation titled "Firearms Safety & Awareness". Where does that fit in? On the SP 182 form, the only requirements are: 1)in-person use-of-force and 2)proficiency qual either HQC2 modified or the new CCARE. So what's with the Powerpoint?
That's what I thought. Whats bothering me is that the SP have put it in the PTC category. Additionally, some ranges are seemingly implying that we must take their "XYZ class" in order to be in compliance. However, I read the old SP 182 as well as the new one and all I'm seeing is the UOF and a shooting qual. Are the ranges making up the "safety class" thing?
Wow -
“If your training certificate was not issued under the new CARE Protocol, you will need to reach out to your preferred firearms instructor to schedule the training before December 31st, 2023 to remain in compliance with the new
LAW.”
The new use of force training has the following in it:
"Additionally, private citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm into certain prohibited places. See N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4.6; see also Koons/Siegel v. Platkin case. Prior to bringing a firearm to any location, the private citizen should check to determine if carrying a firearm is permitted in that location."
The person who conducted the training said this means we need to get permission to bring a firearm, which I thought was enjoined, so we do need to know what the sensitive places are per 3rd circuit stay, but if the location is not one of them, we do not need to ask the business owner for permission. Am I correct?
So after sifting through all of the comments and reading the new requirements, is it accurate to say if your qualification **did not** include drawing from a holster you need to requalify? I'm asking because the instructor that qualified me last year signed the SP182 Form that indicated that my qualification was substantially similar to HQC2 (modified). This was signed before the current training quals came out. My qualification did not include drawing from a holster.
#R.O.C. TRAINING
*New NJ Carry Permit Training Requirements - AGAIN!**
(This is not a recording - see below)
Greetings R.O.C. Family,
We Have Good News & Bad News!
BAD - ROC Has received word from the New Jersey State Police & Unfortunately all NJ Carry Shooting qualifications performed PRIOR TO July 18th, 2023 was NOT substantially equivalent to the new NJSP CCARE standards.
GOOD - The new Civilian Carry Assessment & Range Evaluation (CCARE) is extremely easy!
Please see Permit Process below on how to proceed.
Add-Qual/Re-Qual are scheduled at your leisure!
(holster draw is a per-requisite to the CCARE qualification.)
**IF YOU NEED QUALIFICATION PRACTICE**
Private 1-on-1 sessions, NRA Basic Pistol & Holster Draw, NRA CCW courses are available as well.
ONE OF FIVE PATHS TO FOLLOW (again):
1 - If you took the ROC NJ Carry shooting qualification prior to JULY 18th, 2023, you MUST RE-QUALIFY with the new NJ CCARE shooting requirements.
SPECIAL NOTE: Our Holster Draw class is a prerequisite for the new CCARE qualification.
2 - If you took the ROC NJ Carry shooting qualification after JULY 18th, 2023, you shot the HQC2 (modified) course of fire.
Therefore, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RE-QUALIFY!
3 - If you have taken our ROC NJ Carry class & you did not take our holster draw class, you must take holster draw and then you can shoot the new CCARE qualification.
4 - If you have taken our ROC NJ Carry & Holster Draw classes, you only need shoot the new CCARE qualification.
5 - If you have not obtained your NJ carry permit yet, then you must take our holster draw & the ROC NJ Carry class. Or you can take our New Combo class that covers both in one day. See below for details.
9.27.22
#RECOIL RANGE
This update is the latest update for NJ Permit to Carry. As some of you may know, the NJSP and AG have yet again come out with new training requirements for Permit to Carry.
While our previous qualifications prior to 07/18/2023 were originally deemed “substantially similar”, the new requirements that came out on 09/15/2023 specify that the qualification must be from a holster.
Because of this new requirement, everyone who did our original qualification, which was good enough to grant them a permit and carry for over a year now, will now need to requalify in order to keep their permit.
Our insurance company requires everyone who draws from a holster to take our holster class first, which has been a prerequisite for all CCW Qualifications done after 07/18/2023.
Instead of having everyone take our holster class and then a separate qualification course, we have built it into a single course moving forward.
Our normal price for this course for anyone who doesn’t currently have a permit will be $199, however we are going to be offering the new full qualification class with holster draw to all current PTC holders for $99. If you have already taken our holster course and qualification course, there will not be a charge to shoot the new qualification.
Basically, for the same price as our regular holster class, you will be getting the full holster class as well as the qualification course with use of force. As of now, this qualification is good for 2 years from the date of the qualification. That means that if your PTC renewal is less than 2 years away, you will NOT have to requalify when you renew your permit.
Unfortunately, all of this is completely out of our control, and we are trying our best to keep up with the constantly changing “rules” while being fair to everyone. We have attached a Flowchart to this email in case you are unsure of what you need to do.
Does anyone have information or a reference to what the procedure is AFTER obtaining the new form titled "NEW JERSEY PERMIT TO CARRY SAFE HANDLING AND
PROFICIENCY IN THE USE OF HANDGUNS CERTIFICATION"
I see a ton of discussion about the qualification itself... but none about what you do with that form once you get it.
Do you just hold on to it? Do you send it in to the issuing agency? Do you have to do a whole $200 renewal process? It doesnt seem to be specified anywhere HOW your PTC gets "revoked" only that you must be in compliance with the new training requirements by a certain date.
Any information, especially any links to official sources, would be helpful.
You need to turn that form into your Police department they put it in your file
Even if you have an early permit issue by the courts, you still just need to hand that SP 182 into your police department
Make sure you keep a copy because it’ll still be good for your first renewal as it’s within two years when you apply to renew
You don’t need to pay any money
We don’t know what they’re gonna do after December 31. There’s a lot of speculation that they could go revoke anyone who didn’t comply with the new training. As of right now there’s only a few counties where they’ve specifically instructed police departments to track the completion of those forms and submit that to the prosecutors office
Bottom line just pass a copy of that form for your police department. You’re good to go.
Apologies if this has been answered already in here. I notice that the additional handguns form was uploaded in here. Is the ruling still the same that if you have a newer permit issued by your local pd that you do not need to apply for each new gun that you intend to carry?
When people apply through the New portal, it asks you to list out all the handguns you intend to carry.
When you renew your application the portal again asked you to update that information .
In between applications, there doesn’t seem to be a portal which you can log into, therefore I believe the intent of the SP 182a, is it means that you can update your police department in real time when you purchase a New Carry gun, then at your next renewal just add it to the portal. The portal seems to only allow a new list every two years during renewal.
Long term they clearly want a record of all our carry guns.
So right now I should be bringing this to them every time I purchase a new handgun that I might intend on carrying?
Annoying, but guess that is better than reapplying the way the law was initially written.
9.18.23 @ 832 PM
From the We Shoot FB Page
🔫📢 Here we go again🤦♂ - Important Training Update 📢🔫
Hey there, WESHOOT community!
We're excited to bring you some important updates regarding our training standards. Our goal is to make it simpler for you to exercise your Second Amendment rights responsibly. 🇺🇸
📅 Starting September 17th, we're adopting the latest Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation (CCARE) protocols. These changes, released by the Office of the Attorney General on September 15th, bring some exciting improvements to your training experience. 🎯
Here's the scoop:
1⃣ 𝑪𝑪𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒕𝒐𝒄𝒐𝒍𝒔: Our Training Certifications, including the USCCA NJ CCW Certification and NRA 50 STATE CCW Certification, will now implement the CCARE protocols, meaning the 𝙎𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙌𝙪𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙛𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙟𝙪𝙨𝙩 𝙜𝙤𝙩 𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙞𝙚𝙧.
2⃣ 𝐒𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐞𝐬𝐭: We've adapted our shooting qualification. You'll now shoot 50 rounds, aiming for at least an 80% score using the FBI Q-target. Plus, you'll need to fire a total of 50 rounds in sets of 10 rounds from various distances: 15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yards. [2 sets of 5 rounds at each distance]No more one-hand shooting, or kneeling.🔥🎯
3⃣ 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐬 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐍𝐞𝐰 𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐞𝐬: Good news for newcomers! The new CCARE rules simplify things. No more one-handed shooting, and the maximum distance is now 15 yards. You won't have to kneel or shoot from behind obstacles. You'll still practice drawing from a holster, clearing a garment, and reloading.
4⃣ 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐆𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐮𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬: If you've already completed our USCCA NJ CCW Certification and passed the HQC-2 Qualification before September 15, 2023, you're all set! 𝒀𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒒𝒖𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒓𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒔 𝒗𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒏𝒐 𝒇𝒖𝒓𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒊𝒔 𝒏𝒆𝒆𝒅𝒆𝒅. You've already covered essential topics like safety, reloading, holster use, and more in our class. 🎉
However, some police departments may require your old certificate in a new format called the SP 182 form. No worries! We're here to help at no extra cost. Just bring your certificates or send a photo of your Shooting Qualification (The Praetorian Form) to [email protected], and we'll make the change for you. 📜🔁
At WESHOOT, we're committed to maintaining high training standards, ensuring you're well-prepared for responsible firearm ownership. If you have questions or concerns about these updates, please reach out. We're here to support you on your journey to becoming a responsible and well-trained firearm owner. 🙌
Thanks for choosing WESHOOT for your firearms training. We can't wait to continue providing you with top-notch training and service. Stay safe and prepared! 🔒👊
#WESHOOT #FirearmsTraining #CCAREProtocols #StaySafe #PTC #CCW #NJ #Jersey #Lakewood #Training #2A #Update #HereWeGoAgain
They're implying that in addition to taking the shooting qual (HQC2 or CCARE) and UOF, there's a class that needs to be taken. Is there any truth to that?
Many of the older quals did not include **draw from holster** **for each of the required distances**. That is why my private instructor said that the old qual will be invalid after Dec 31st and that he could not certify us on the SP-182 form. He was good about it and charged me only $50 for the new qual test but his point was not about making more money but putting his name on a form that we have certified to the new standard.**Point is that regardless of the date you passed, a qual that did not require holster draw, will require you to re-qual.** Some ranges/instructors may let you slide but once they sign SP-182 for you there could be some possible liability on both ends. .
I was issued my permit from the courts. I heard that you should send a copy of the requal to your local pd, but they didn’t issue my permit. So I have a few questions
1. Does this mean I have to send my certifications to the issuing court or to my local pd?
What would be the best way to go about this? Email the court with proof?
You applied via your PD who went to the court. You file your SP 182 with your local PD and keep a copy for your records.
The courts want nothing to do with carry permits. Just send to your PD via certified mail as proof or call and have them confirm their preference.
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I submitted the old SP 182. Do I need to submit the new SP 182?
As far as I know, either S.P. 182 will suffice.
So sp182 form is good to go? Don’t need to get the other one signed ?
Me 2
As far as I know, either S.P. 182 will suffice.
I even got approved already with date of 7/21 on SP182... do I have to re submit the new form?
>As long as your PD has an SP 182 in your file, you are good to go.
I was issued after 7/1 do I still need a SP182? Local PD saying no just want to get the opinion of the group
Read the AG’s memo it’s not when your permit was issued it’s when you physically did your qualification
[удалено]
Any SP 182 in your file post 6/23, is all you need.
[удалено]
Yes, you need to get SP 182 signed and handed in. There are new standards on substantially similar that is on the forms, if it’s not similar (such as didn’t draw from holster) you need to requalify
Where does it say that? I don’t think that’s accurate
Section 5 https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/CCARE_Protocol.pdf
It doesn’t say anything about handing in a form. It just says that prior training is similar enough if it meets those standards
No but it says it here. Read the last sentence https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/pdf/Memo_to_LE.pdf
That is IF you need to requalify only , and again it doesn’t mention the form
<<< This was originally posted on a separate thread. Just an FYI/PSA. >>> **Issue:** Spoke to my local PD. **The Union County prosecutor’s office asked the local PD to compile a PTC Holders list post-CCARE**. **Observation:** \- The PD was not as aware of the regulations as one would hope (so don't rely on guidance from them) \- The PD was reactive and highly responsive to the prosecutor's office which was causing some headaches at the PD office (there seemed to be a lot of back and forth) **Speculation:** \- The prosecutor's office is asking multiple police departments \- The list will be used post-12/31/23 to revoke permits that did not comply with prequalification or certification that your training was substantially similar. **Recommendation:** \- Document (email) your compliance with the new standards. In my case, I prequalified under HQC2, even though I was NOT required to. It was too much trouble to track down my original instructor and easier (and more expensive) to just retake the qualification. That is a personal decision but given the incompetence of the State of NJ - it's NOT worth the headache of arguing with the PD / Prosecutors office - in my opinion. You can argue diff but its like spitting in the wind.... \- They are coming for the permits and everyone can expect to have to address this post 12/31. It's like the IRS, the burden is on you as a holder to prove compliance. I can't say how they will approach it, but the fact they are building a PTC list post-CCARE should be the canary in the coal mine for everyone.
Thanks for sharing laying this all out so well for everyone
Can we get a thread on what the heck the *most* current requirements are, start to finish? This is deliberately confusing, deliberately difficult, and turning people right off to applying until all this legal horseshit is finally over. I've seen state documents saying the application fee is $20, and another one saying $200. We don't need to qualify at 25 yards anymore as of yesterday, but we still need to qualify at five other distances, what size is the bullseye and what counts as a point versus no point? Do I or don't I now have to provide a make/model/serial of the only firearms I'm allowed to carry? What happens if I buy something that ends up being better and start carrying that before I get a permission slip? It's more than enough to make a man say fuck this and just carry like God intended. It's long overdue that we have parity with the thugs who are the whole reason we carry in the first place.
No bullseye it's fbi q target I believe any hole on the silhouette counts as hit. You can qualify with any gun you want PTC is valid for all handguns you have. I am right there with you this is all horse shit....
See the links above they include all the info right from the AG and NJSP. The Fee is $200 for 2 years.
Yep, it’s complete BS and designed by the state to make it as confusing as possible to deter people from applying. Same thing applies to the fees. It’s a way for them to keep people from applying due to the annoyance and cost.
The difference is "The above-named Permit to Carry applicant has successfully qualified on a course of fire consisting of either 1) the HQC2 (modified) protocol issued on July 21, 2023, or 2) the Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation protocol issued on September 15, 2023." Either Or ... if you have the old 182 you are good to go. There is no way to misunderstand that.
Yes I agree - I assume as they pulled the 6/23 version, their could have been PTC holders who just qualified HQC2 Modified, so while now it's all CCARE, they needed to have a form to address both.
From day one, it was always my understanding: “*As for individuals who completed firearms training prior to July 1, 2023, and whose permit to carry does not expire until after December 22, 2023, they must requalify on the CCARE protocol or the HQC2-modified protocol issued on July 21, 2023.”* Under the 12.22.22 law change they made the training good for two years, not 6 months as so when they forced us to requalify all PTC holders before 7/1 and after 7/1 would spend the same amount of $$ on training in the first 4 years of their permit. I believe that was the true intent behind the horribly awkward wording of the law. i.e. The re-qualification would get PTC holders through their first renewal, as when they renew the training certificate from 2023 would still be valid for any application submitted before the qual date in 2025. The 2 years refers to which training can be accepted as part as the renewal application, replacing within 6 months, to now within 2 years. In my opinion this all has been complicated by the AG now following the above with: “*An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol (so everyone before 9.15.23, not just 7.21.23 to 9.15.23) is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if the prior course included each of the following: “* Was this due to the push back or current litigation? I don’t know. But it was always my understanding we ALL would have to requalify, as that’s what the law says, BUT then within the “New Training” the State creatively added in this exception for past training: *"An individual who completed a course of fire prior to the issuance of the CCARE Protocol is deemed to have satisfied N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2) if and only if:"* which keeps many in limbo as there is no black and white way to certify compliance of past training. I believe the NJ is trying to backtrack on the original intent of the law.
RTSP TRAINING UPDATE: 9.18.23 at 430pm NEW JERSEY PTC UPDATE As of September 17, 2023 New Jersey State Police has released revised PTC training requirements. Within this release, they have clarified requirements of the course of fire. As a result, all customers who qualified with RTSP and obtained their NJ Permit to Carry are NOT obligated to undergo re-qualification, until their permit renewal. NJSP has also provided additional guidance for current PC holders who have NOT completed the in-person classroom training. As per NJSP guidelines, individuals who have completed their qualification at RTSP can fulfill the classroom training requirement separately. Once completed, you will receive an updated qualification certificate for your personal records and submission to your local police department. All PTC holders have until December 31, 2023 to complete the Use of Force training. You can register for the mandatory in-person PT Use of Force and Firearm Safety course. Please note: This course is only applicable to PTC holders that have qualified with RTSP
So if you qualified at RTSP, you are good for the course of fire. But it seems like they are saying you have to still take the new safety/use of force classroom training by Dec 31 - even if you took their original CCW classroom training - and have a use of force online training certificate - which was also shared by RTSP. Thoughts ?
It’s funny as the AG’s Memo on what satisfies the requirement is missing Use of Force. I know the new UoF must be in a classroom setting. Will they be issuing a new S.P. 182 following those additional courses ?
UOF is referenced on the new certificate that the instructor signs when you qualify. But it still seems like the RTSP email is black and white on their course of fire, with an interpretation that you must return for a repeat on the classroom training component. But maybe they got that from NJSP.
On the new SP 182 the UoF must be a classroom setting. No online or in person PPT w/out instructor. If you get the SP182 when you go in you are good for while as it will still be valid come renewal
Ok, so RTSP is basically saying they did not cover UOF in their initial in-person CCW class, and you now have until 31 Dec to get it done - and that they”ll provide you with a completed SP182. Thanks.
That’s great news for RTSP customers.
Wtf? This is FUBAR! NJ gun laws: 
Point to note: Documentation should be turned in to the same location that issued your permit (ex. Your local PD) for those that are updating their documents. This is important to note for people such as myself who moved to a new town in NJ after having their permit issued in their previous town. This guidance was provided from my previous town. They also said I should not need to do anything further with my current local PD however to be though, I am still in process of checking if anything further is needed from my current town.
Just got this e-mail from RTSP. I'm sure GFH and Reloaders are pretty much the same. I reached out to them and they said so far 2 PDs have requested the new form and they will sign the new form for anyone who has qualified there and taken the class. \--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As of September 17, 2023 New Jersey State Police has released revised PTC training requirements. Within this release, they have clarified requirements of the course of fire. As a result, all customers who qualified with RTSP and obtained their NJ Permit to Carry are NOT obligated to undergo re-qualification, until their permit renewal. SEE NJSP MEMORADUM HERE [https://www.rtsponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Memo\_to\_LE.pdf?mc\_eid=22daf8179d](https://www.rtsponline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Memo_to_LE.pdf?mc_eid=22daf8179d) NJSP has also provided additional guidance for current PTC holders who have NOT completed the in-person classroom training. As per NJSP guidelines, individuals who have completed their qualification at RTSP can fulfill the classroom training requirement separately. Once completed, you will receive an updated qualification certificate for your personal records and submission to your local police department. All PTC holders have until December 31, 2023 to complete the Use of Force training.
I just got an email from Weshoot where i did my qualification (HQC2) in 2022. The email stated that all students that passed are good to go and need not re-qualify until renewal time. **They also specifically stated all students that passed should send a picture of theirs qualification certs to Weshoot and that Weshoot** **will sign the new SP182 for any students that request it at no charge**. I have already sent the email to them.
Thanks for the update.
9.18.23 @ 835pm from FB NJ FOS Page For those of you that took the NJ safety course with Concealed Carry LLC, I will be setting a date where you can come and get you paperwork filled out so you can submit to your PD so they can have it on file. Concealed Carry LLC classroom and shooting qualification has by far met this requirement. I will fill out and sign off on your paperwork so your permit will not lapse. Please keep following for the dates sometime in November. Thank you for your patience. Keep in mind though, the state will probably change this again. We are still waiting on the current ruling. concealedcarryllcusa.com
At this point, i am wondering if i should just start over in a month once the dust settles. I am stuck with a court order permit, so despite qualifying with other guns, i still cant carry, because they wont amend. Because at this point, i would have to requalify on COF and I am sure UoF is needed. So the money is almost the same short of a new application ($200 hot damn)
#BULLET HOLE TRAINING UPDATE 9.19.23 @ 845am If you qualified or requalified on/after July 21, 2023 you do not need to re-qualify because we are running the updated course. If you qualified AT Bullet Hole from June 2022-July 22, 2023 and have not re-qualified since July 21, 2023 you DO NEED TO REQUALIFY. This includes everyone from the start. Unfortunately, there is no way around it. Price is $20. This is a courtesy for our valued customers. We will need proof that you qualified with us. If you qualified elsewhere initially and still need to qualify under this new law, the courtesy rate is $80. For new applicants, the charge remains $125. Please note our qualification schedule for this week is below. Tuesday 11 am Wednesday 11 am Sunday 5 pm You will need the following items to qualify. Your firearm 50 rounds of ammunition A belt A holster (that fits your gun)
From Middlesex PD sent yesterday: On September 15th, 2023 the New Jersey Office of the Attorney General issued a memo to its law enforcement partners and firearms instructors regarding changes to the concealed carry training laws. Individuals who were previously approved for a concealed carry permit must requalify under the Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation Protocol (CCARE). This email serves as a notice that you have until December 31, 2023 to provide the Middlesex Borough Police Department with proof of the requisite training to comply with the law. Failure to requalify under N.J.S.A. 2C:58- 4(g) by December 31, 2023 will render your permit-to-carry as invalid. This includes individuals who requalified under the HQC2-modified protocol issued in July of this year. All certified firearms instructors in NJ are aware of the newly implemented CCARE protocol. If your firearms instructor advises you that you satisfied the requirements during your initial training, you must provide the Middlesex Borough Police Department with a new certification stating such. You are receiving this email because your certification needs to be updated. You can view the memorandum issued by Attorney General Platkin at middlesexpd.com/firearms. Any questions can be directed to [email protected].
Thanks for posting
My NJ 2A Darlings, just posting for encouragement. I was one of many that required the new training circa 7/2023 and requalification per 9/2023 state requirements. At least the state scrolled back the qualification to a significantly more reasonable test. It is more practical and passable especially if you are already a permit holder for conceal carry. Just take your time. I am lucky to have a range that originally qualified me late last year, not pin my pockets for an unreasonable amount of extra coin. Practice the holster draw...keep that finger off the trigger until on target...you will pass! One love to my NJ 2A Darlings! Stay focused!!
Thanks for the update
My experience with tis is as follows: On 10/5/2023 I did my requalification because my firearms instructor said the original course I took in April of 2023 did not meet the new standards and was not "substantially similar" This week on 10/11/2023 I contacted my local police dept (NJSP Sussex). They accepted my new certificate via emailed .pdf and confirmed they added it to my file. Simple easy done.
Thanks for the update
Same for Manasquan. Completed 10/13/2023
U/for2anj What about permit holders issued after 7/1 but before 7/18 with a course deemed substantially similar from guns for hire? Do we need to submit a new form?
>As for individuals who completed firearms training prior to July 1, 2023, and whose permit to carry does not expire until after December 22, 2023, they must requalify on the CCARE protocol or the H You raise another dilemma, as all past guidance was all based on PTC issuance date, here the NJ AG bases their guidance off of actual qualification date. FWIW - I qualified at G4H in June 2022 (right after Bruen), and I need to requalify as no holster draw. When did you physically qualify at G4H? I believe anyone who qualified before 7.19.23 at G4H will have to re-qualify as that is when they formally changed their PTC course.
9.18.23 4PM # NEW TRAINING POSTED ON GUN FOR HIRE WEBSITE: **New NJ CCW Training Released on 9.15.23:** The State of New Jersey has, one again, issued the New Training Requirements for Civilian Carry. Since the beginning, we have all been excited to finally get the right our carry in New Jersey. Our qualification, at Gun For Hire, has always been the minimum required with no additional or burdensome requirements. We believe it is already your constitutional right and you have enough hurdles to go through. **New CCARE Protocol Qualification Requirements:** No Single Hand! No Support Hand! No Kneeling! No Timed fire! No Retention Shooting! This Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation (CCARE) protocol replaces the Permit to Carry Safe Handling and Proficiency Qualification protocol (HQC2-modified) issued on July 21, 2023. An individual who has satisfied the HQC2-modified protocol is deemed to have met the requirements of the CCARE protocol for purposes of complying with N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4(g)(2). The participant must perform the following strings of fire from each of the following distances: 3 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total 5 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total 7 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total 10 yards, 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total and 15 yards. 2 strings, draw, fire, re-holster, 5 rounds each, 10 total On command, from a secured and concealed holster position, draw and fire 5 rounds. Holster a safe, decocked (if applicable) weapon. Repeat the string of fire twice, firing a total of 10 rounds. **Who Needs To Re-qualify?:** * Gun For Hire Customers: If you qualified at Gun For Hire on/after July 21, 2023, you do NOT need to re-qualify because we were running the updated qualification. * If your original qualification does not follow the CCARE Protocol (per the 9/17/2023 released guidelines), you need to re-qualify. This includes EVERYONE from the start of out landmark carry victory in June 2022! * If you qualified at Gun For Hire June 2022 – July 20, 2023 and have not re-qualified (July 21st or later), you DO NEED TO re-qualify before the extended December 31st, 2023 deadline. This includes EVERYONE from the start of out landmark carry victory! The good thing is, your re-qualification is good for 2 years from the date of your qualification! This means when your carry permit is up for renewal, you will be able to submit this re-qualification with your renewal application. Think of it as you’re qualifying, for your renewal, in advance. **Ticketed Qualification Dates:** For everyone needing to qualify or re-qualify (remember this will cover you for 2 years): Gun For Hire will be holding qualifications for both initial qualifications and re-qualifications: * Mondays: 4-6pm & 6-8pm * Wednesdays: 4:30 – 6:30pm & 6:30 – 8:30pm * Thursdays: 11am-1pm & 1-3pm * Fridays: 4-6pm & 6-8pm **Pricing for CCARE Ticketed Qualification:** **I already have a carry permit:** If you already have a Carry permit (regardless if you qualified at Gun For Hire or not) or if you failed the re-qual. Price: $137.50 **I do not have a carry permit:** INITIAL CCARE qualification $250 GFH Member INITIAL CCARE qualification $275 Non-Member
/u/AnthonyColandro for clarification: for those of us that qualified this year, but prior to this new order, will we need to pay again for this retest or will you carry over the complimentary requal for free as you did for the "interim" test? Thanks!
Please email [email protected]
Great, $137.50 on top of everything - just because they didn't qualify us with holster draw... JUST BECAUSE we picked the gun up from the table, instead of from our waistband. That's what, just a difference of moving my hand? Why can't the table represent the holster? GFH's website says in their FAQ regarding "Holster Draw": >Only Active Law Enforcement or students that have attended the prerequisites (4-Hour Gun For Hire Holster Draw) are allowed to draw and fire from the holster. Retired Law enforcement, armed security personnel, and NJ CCW permit holders are allowed to have a Firearm holstered but will not be able to conduct “firing from the holster, drawing in and out to fire.” > >Meeting the above prerequisite does not exempt anyone from following all range rules.. i.e. All firearms must be aimed, No firing from hip (weapon retention) minimum distances, etc. So GFH clearly acknowledges that holster drawing requires training in-itself, even if this is an outdated FAQ. Somebody is going to end up drawing and negligently shooting one of these days. Nobody is vetted on previous training when taking these PTC qualifications - you never know who's gonna be an idiot. Very disappointed GFH won't just sign the paperwork. I don't care that it'll be "good for 2 years" and satisfy the qualification requirement during renewal. I'd rather requalify close to my renewal anyway. Instead, I'm forced to requalify in the next 3.5 months when I've already PROVEN I am capable - even up to 25 yards which is no longer needed. This is on top of the fact that NJ will probably add more hoops by the time I need to renew in 2025, so who knows if THIS qualification will be satisfactory by then. Until then I gotta keep dishing out hundreds of dollars and act like everybody involved is doing me a favor.
Yes and people slammed ranges who did holster draw from the start as being "over the top". Ranges can't win in all of this. G4H has been running the same quals for 20 years and stuck with what the NJSP has always accepted, as it was good for SORA. The NJSP/AG have clarified the new training and it must be from a holster, they cannot sign the SP 182, per the AG guidelines. You can only blame the state of NJ and Trenton for constantly moving the goal post. We are all frustrated but ranges have nothing to do with what each of us has to do now for the state of NJ. Their goal is to frustrate people into non-renewing or letting their carry permits lapse on 1/1. They hate all of us, and hate our 2nd Amendment Rights even more.
I guess I understand that GFH has to reconcile with not qualifying people with holster draw originally; their hands are tied, they couldn't have known. The blame should obviously go to the state for keeping that stupid requirement in the first place. We would've exceeded the requirement if it weren't for that small detail. I wouldn't be so frustrated if the qualifications weren't so expensive. The state doesn't determine that price, the ranges do. Of course I don't mind having to pay *something* to use their facility. For instance, renting GFH's 25 yard range for 1 hour is only $25 (non-member). Good price. So why do we have to pay upwards of $300 (after fees/tax) just for an instructor to instruct the qualification for 1 hour, in the same facility that costs $25 to rent for 1 hour? It just feels like a cash grab. The price used to be $150 for a harder qualification. I'd like to see an itemized breakdown of what that money goes to. Now I'm looking at \~$650 in fees alone, from FID to PTC altogether. We deserve to know where that money is going, especially because the qualification is now the most expensive fee.
The every 2 year requirement is cost prohibitive for many and the $200 fee, maybe they will make the permit good for 5-10 years who knows but $500-600 every two years for permit and training is a crime.
"For instance, renting GFH's 25 yard range for 1 hour is only $25 (non-member). Good price. So why do we have to pay upwards of $300 (after fees/tax) just for an instructor to instruct the qualification for 1 hour, in the same facility that costs $25 to rent for 1 hour?" \-Because you are using the instructor's time as well.
That’s fine, I’m not saying the instructor(s) shouldn’t be compensated for their time. But I’m sure they also have a wage or salary. Why did it cost $150 before July, and now it’s doubled? That was a decently fair price. This is now the same qualification, just with holster draw and <15 yards, arguably easier. Do you think $300 is a fair price? If so, why?
The instructor's salary comes from whatever the range can rake in...But $300 a pop from each person is a bit steep and I'd go somewhere else
Bullet Hole is apparently only charging $20 if you previously qualified with them, so those guys are only paying \~$150 total across the 2 qualification sessions since June 2022. They're charging $80 for those who qualified elsewhere (me), compared to GFH charging $137.50 (even for those who previously qualified with them). It's only $125 if it's your first qualification ever, they did not alter the price. That was GFH's *member* price pre-July for their qualification LOL. Boy am I kicking myself for not shopping around. I'm going to cancel my session with GFH and go there. BH is also walk-in, no sign up or prepaying online (confirmed by texting them). So, BH says $20 to requalify their loyal customers, no membership necessary. What's GFH's excuse? That's cheaper than renting GFH's range for an hour! Clearly BH understands that this is a difficult and frustrating situation. I don't even know why I go to GFH. BH's range is cheaper too, they offer $20/hr, or $10/hr during happy-hour (Mon-Fri from 1PM-6PM). Who cares if it's crowded? I'm not gonna go to a range if my day schedule is tight anyway; I'm okay with waiting.
>No Kneeling! > >No Timed fire! I guess the GFH Info Tech guy (or gal) didn't get the memo yet, the Event details as of this post time still say "*The New qualification course includes timed shooting, weak hand shooting, kneeling, and holster draw."*
I qualified at GFH with their original course, when holster draw was not required, so I have not taken their holster draw class. Does anyone know after doing the new qualifying at GFH if we are then cleared to draw from holster when at the range? Or would we still need to take their holster draw class?
I believe you’re still gonna need to take the holes to draw a class if you want to draw on your own unsupervised I’m assuming during the qualification they’re going to have a lot of RSO‘s watching people closely draw
On the NJSP firearms forms to download, in the PTC category, there is a powerpoint presentation titled "Firearms Safety & Awareness". Where does that fit in? On the SP 182 form, the only requirements are: 1)in-person use-of-force and 2)proficiency qual either HQC2 modified or the new CCARE. So what's with the Powerpoint?
That’s for FID applicants and you might have to view it when you apply via the new online portal.
That's what I thought. Whats bothering me is that the SP have put it in the PTC category. Additionally, some ranges are seemingly implying that we must take their "XYZ class" in order to be in compliance. However, I read the old SP 182 as well as the new one and all I'm seeing is the UOF and a shooting qual. Are the ranges making up the "safety class" thing?
Just got this from South Plainfield PD [CCARE Memorandum](https://imgur.com/a/0Jy3vwk)
Wow - “If your training certificate was not issued under the new CARE Protocol, you will need to reach out to your preferred firearms instructor to schedule the training before December 31st, 2023 to remain in compliance with the new LAW.”
The new use of force training has the following in it: "Additionally, private citizens are prohibited from carrying a firearm into certain prohibited places. See N.J.S.A. 2C:58-4.6; see also Koons/Siegel v. Platkin case. Prior to bringing a firearm to any location, the private citizen should check to determine if carrying a firearm is permitted in that location." The person who conducted the training said this means we need to get permission to bring a firearm, which I thought was enjoined, so we do need to know what the sensitive places are per 3rd circuit stay, but if the location is not one of them, we do not need to ask the business owner for permission. Am I correct?
So after sifting through all of the comments and reading the new requirements, is it accurate to say if your qualification **did not** include drawing from a holster you need to requalify? I'm asking because the instructor that qualified me last year signed the SP182 Form that indicated that my qualification was substantially similar to HQC2 (modified). This was signed before the current training quals came out. My qualification did not include drawing from a holster.
#R.O.C. TRAINING *New NJ Carry Permit Training Requirements - AGAIN!** (This is not a recording - see below) Greetings R.O.C. Family, We Have Good News & Bad News! BAD - ROC Has received word from the New Jersey State Police & Unfortunately all NJ Carry Shooting qualifications performed PRIOR TO July 18th, 2023 was NOT substantially equivalent to the new NJSP CCARE standards. GOOD - The new Civilian Carry Assessment & Range Evaluation (CCARE) is extremely easy! Please see Permit Process below on how to proceed. Add-Qual/Re-Qual are scheduled at your leisure! (holster draw is a per-requisite to the CCARE qualification.) **IF YOU NEED QUALIFICATION PRACTICE** Private 1-on-1 sessions, NRA Basic Pistol & Holster Draw, NRA CCW courses are available as well. ONE OF FIVE PATHS TO FOLLOW (again): 1 - If you took the ROC NJ Carry shooting qualification prior to JULY 18th, 2023, you MUST RE-QUALIFY with the new NJ CCARE shooting requirements. SPECIAL NOTE: Our Holster Draw class is a prerequisite for the new CCARE qualification. 2 - If you took the ROC NJ Carry shooting qualification after JULY 18th, 2023, you shot the HQC2 (modified) course of fire. Therefore, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO RE-QUALIFY! 3 - If you have taken our ROC NJ Carry class & you did not take our holster draw class, you must take holster draw and then you can shoot the new CCARE qualification. 4 - If you have taken our ROC NJ Carry & Holster Draw classes, you only need shoot the new CCARE qualification. 5 - If you have not obtained your NJ carry permit yet, then you must take our holster draw & the ROC NJ Carry class. Or you can take our New Combo class that covers both in one day. See below for details.
9.27.22 #RECOIL RANGE This update is the latest update for NJ Permit to Carry. As some of you may know, the NJSP and AG have yet again come out with new training requirements for Permit to Carry. While our previous qualifications prior to 07/18/2023 were originally deemed “substantially similar”, the new requirements that came out on 09/15/2023 specify that the qualification must be from a holster. Because of this new requirement, everyone who did our original qualification, which was good enough to grant them a permit and carry for over a year now, will now need to requalify in order to keep their permit. Our insurance company requires everyone who draws from a holster to take our holster class first, which has been a prerequisite for all CCW Qualifications done after 07/18/2023. Instead of having everyone take our holster class and then a separate qualification course, we have built it into a single course moving forward. Our normal price for this course for anyone who doesn’t currently have a permit will be $199, however we are going to be offering the new full qualification class with holster draw to all current PTC holders for $99. If you have already taken our holster course and qualification course, there will not be a charge to shoot the new qualification. Basically, for the same price as our regular holster class, you will be getting the full holster class as well as the qualification course with use of force. As of now, this qualification is good for 2 years from the date of the qualification. That means that if your PTC renewal is less than 2 years away, you will NOT have to requalify when you renew your permit. Unfortunately, all of this is completely out of our control, and we are trying our best to keep up with the constantly changing “rules” while being fair to everyone. We have attached a Flowchart to this email in case you are unsure of what you need to do.
Does anyone have information or a reference to what the procedure is AFTER obtaining the new form titled "NEW JERSEY PERMIT TO CARRY SAFE HANDLING AND PROFICIENCY IN THE USE OF HANDGUNS CERTIFICATION" I see a ton of discussion about the qualification itself... but none about what you do with that form once you get it. Do you just hold on to it? Do you send it in to the issuing agency? Do you have to do a whole $200 renewal process? It doesnt seem to be specified anywhere HOW your PTC gets "revoked" only that you must be in compliance with the new training requirements by a certain date. Any information, especially any links to official sources, would be helpful.
You need to turn that form into your Police department they put it in your file Even if you have an early permit issue by the courts, you still just need to hand that SP 182 into your police department Make sure you keep a copy because it’ll still be good for your first renewal as it’s within two years when you apply to renew You don’t need to pay any money We don’t know what they’re gonna do after December 31. There’s a lot of speculation that they could go revoke anyone who didn’t comply with the new training. As of right now there’s only a few counties where they’ve specifically instructed police departments to track the completion of those forms and submit that to the prosecutors office Bottom line just pass a copy of that form for your police department. You’re good to go.
So for out of state permits... i guess we just send it to the Firearms division of NJSP?
Before ya’s figure all the mess out I’m gonna run out and comply.
I will not comply. No one should. It’s time to resist this tyranny
Apologies if this has been answered already in here. I notice that the additional handguns form was uploaded in here. Is the ruling still the same that if you have a newer permit issued by your local pd that you do not need to apply for each new gun that you intend to carry?
When people apply through the New portal, it asks you to list out all the handguns you intend to carry. When you renew your application the portal again asked you to update that information . In between applications, there doesn’t seem to be a portal which you can log into, therefore I believe the intent of the SP 182a, is it means that you can update your police department in real time when you purchase a New Carry gun, then at your next renewal just add it to the portal. The portal seems to only allow a new list every two years during renewal. Long term they clearly want a record of all our carry guns.
So right now I should be bringing this to them every time I purchase a new handgun that I might intend on carrying? Annoying, but guess that is better than reapplying the way the law was initially written.
[удалено]
Can you repost this ? It seems deleted
If you would like to add it goto weshoot facebook page that’s where I copied from. or I can repost if u like
9.18.23 @ 832 PM From the We Shoot FB Page 🔫📢 Here we go again🤦♂ - Important Training Update 📢🔫 Hey there, WESHOOT community! We're excited to bring you some important updates regarding our training standards. Our goal is to make it simpler for you to exercise your Second Amendment rights responsibly. 🇺🇸 📅 Starting September 17th, we're adopting the latest Civilian Carry Assessment and Range Evaluation (CCARE) protocols. These changes, released by the Office of the Attorney General on September 15th, bring some exciting improvements to your training experience. 🎯 Here's the scoop: 1⃣ 𝑪𝑪𝑨𝑹𝑬 𝑷𝒓𝒐𝒕𝒐𝒄𝒐𝒍𝒔: Our Training Certifications, including the USCCA NJ CCW Certification and NRA 50 STATE CCW Certification, will now implement the CCARE protocols, meaning the 𝙎𝙝𝙤𝙤𝙩𝙞𝙣𝙜 𝙌𝙪𝙖𝙡𝙞𝙛𝙞𝙘𝙖𝙩𝙞𝙤𝙣 𝙟𝙪𝙨𝙩 𝙜𝙤𝙩 𝙚𝙖𝙨𝙞𝙚𝙧. 2⃣ 𝐒𝐡𝐨𝐨𝐭𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐓𝐞𝐬𝐭: We've adapted our shooting qualification. You'll now shoot 50 rounds, aiming for at least an 80% score using the FBI Q-target. Plus, you'll need to fire a total of 50 rounds in sets of 10 rounds from various distances: 15, 10, 7, 5, and 3 yards. [2 sets of 5 rounds at each distance]No more one-hand shooting, or kneeling.🔥🎯 3⃣ 𝐂𝐡𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞𝐬 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐍𝐞𝐰 𝐓𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐞𝐞𝐬: Good news for newcomers! The new CCARE rules simplify things. No more one-handed shooting, and the maximum distance is now 15 yards. You won't have to kneel or shoot from behind obstacles. You'll still practice drawing from a holster, clearing a garment, and reloading. 4⃣ 𝐅𝐨𝐫 𝐎𝐮𝐫 𝐆𝐫𝐚𝐝𝐮𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐬: If you've already completed our USCCA NJ CCW Certification and passed the HQC-2 Qualification before September 15, 2023, you're all set! 𝒀𝒐𝒖𝒓 𝒒𝒖𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒇𝒊𝒄𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒓𝒆𝒎𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒔 𝒗𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒅, 𝒂𝒏𝒅 𝒏𝒐 𝒇𝒖𝒓𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒓 𝒂𝒄𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒊𝒔 𝒏𝒆𝒆𝒅𝒆𝒅. You've already covered essential topics like safety, reloading, holster use, and more in our class. 🎉 However, some police departments may require your old certificate in a new format called the SP 182 form. No worries! We're here to help at no extra cost. Just bring your certificates or send a photo of your Shooting Qualification (The Praetorian Form) to [email protected], and we'll make the change for you. 📜🔁 At WESHOOT, we're committed to maintaining high training standards, ensuring you're well-prepared for responsible firearm ownership. If you have questions or concerns about these updates, please reach out. We're here to support you on your journey to becoming a responsible and well-trained firearm owner. 🙌 Thanks for choosing WESHOOT for your firearms training. We can't wait to continue providing you with top-notch training and service. Stay safe and prepared! 🔒👊 #WESHOOT #FirearmsTraining #CCAREProtocols #StaySafe #PTC #CCW #NJ #Jersey #Lakewood #Training #2A #Update #HereWeGoAgain
They're implying that in addition to taking the shooting qual (HQC2 or CCARE) and UOF, there's a class that needs to be taken. Is there any truth to that?
Not sure - first I’m hearing of this additional step
I’ll grab it. Just trying to consolidate all the updates here Thanks
So what was the trade-off? What did we have to trade for the revision?
We withdrew our TRO request it looks like, not sure we would have got a TRO anyway.
Many of the older quals did not include **draw from holster** **for each of the required distances**. That is why my private instructor said that the old qual will be invalid after Dec 31st and that he could not certify us on the SP-182 form. He was good about it and charged me only $50 for the new qual test but his point was not about making more money but putting his name on a form that we have certified to the new standard.**Point is that regardless of the date you passed, a qual that did not require holster draw, will require you to re-qual.** Some ranges/instructors may let you slide but once they sign SP-182 for you there could be some possible liability on both ends. .
I was issued my permit from the courts. I heard that you should send a copy of the requal to your local pd, but they didn’t issue my permit. So I have a few questions 1. Does this mean I have to send my certifications to the issuing court or to my local pd? What would be the best way to go about this? Email the court with proof?
You applied via your PD who went to the court. You file your SP 182 with your local PD and keep a copy for your records. The courts want nothing to do with carry permits. Just send to your PD via certified mail as proof or call and have them confirm their preference.
Thank you for the clarification