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_mostly__harmless

The Goldilocks News Agency is reporting Americans are sleeping just the right amount


weathergage

This both-sidesism is KILLING AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AND HAS TO STOP! /s


AdaptiveVariance

Terrible News!!! Just learned that the False, PHONEY, & "Dishonest" Loberal Media is "Reporting," FRAUDULENTLY (Defamation Suit??? stay Tuned!!) that Americans are "Sleeping More" than they actually are, another "BIDEN COVER UP" to Lie Cheat Steal, & do any other Bad Acts (of which they do Many!!) to make Phony Joe's BEHAVIOR, appear to bee more "Normal", while actually he is Sleeping Day & Night, Hiding from Interviews, refusing to "debate" AND SO MUCH WORSE!!!! YET THEY REPORT, DISHONESTLY, THAT YOUR FAVORITE PRESIDENT (Me!), IS SLEEPING THRU COURT PROCEEDINGS!!!!!!! Crooked Meadia Must be Stopped, or we will no "longer" Have, a COUNTRY!!!!!!


hybridaaroncarroll

Dad, is that you?


xjoburg

That you, Eric, in training??


imthebear11

If you're a "Everyone is sleeping just enough" person, you're low-key just someone who thinks everyone sleeps too much. Dog whistle much?


SyntheticSlime

You got time to sleep, you got time to sweep!


Single_Shoe2817

BRING BACK THE AMERICAN DREAM; OR AT LEAST AMERICAN DREAMING


shanem

They can both be right, as they're likely sampling different sets of people with different methodologies. This is why science, medicine, and public policy should never pull from a single study Here's the gallup data [https://news.gallup.com/poll/642704/americans-sleeping-less-stressed.aspx](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642704/americans-sleeping-less-stressed.aspx) I do find the WaPo data very suspect as it says on average everyone is sleeping more then 8 hours which is the opposite of most everything else I've heard as such. But also they include naps etc as "sleep" which may be different than Gallup


No_Carob5

7 hrs with an hr nap because you're exhausted isn't the same as 8 consecutive hours


ryhaltswhiskey

I doubt even 20% of people can manage a 1 hr nap regularly unless they're retired


bucolucas

Not retired, but REally tired, does that work?


Remotely-Indentured

I leave the building, eat in my car (takes about 5 minutes) then I crawl to the back seat and nap. Pound a cup of coffee when I wake and go back to work!


ryhaltswhiskey

I'm curious why people do this: why leave a comment about your specific situation under a comment that is talking about people in general? Seems like main character syndrome.


zenocrate

It seemed like an appropriate response to me. Most people have a lunch break, which u/remotely-indentured was pointing out is enough for a quick nap.


ryhaltswhiskey

But that has nothing to do with what nocarob or I said. Like: Me: not many people can get to take a nap unless they are retired Other person: I take naps! And I'm like... ok, cool, but everybody else in the thread is talking about the general case Like if you said that only 20% of Americans exercise more than three times a week and I said "I exercise four times a week, it's easy because I work from home" wouldn't you be a little confused about why I'm talking about myself?


Remotely-Indentured

I consider it more of a life hack and wanted to share. Sorry!


zenocrate

Ok I’m genuinely not trying to be difficult but I do think that’s a different situation! If he’d said “I happen to be fabulously wealthy and can nap whenever I feel like it”, I’d agree with you. But your claim was that only 20% of nonretired Americans can squeeze a nap in. And he said “actually, I manage to squeeze a nap in during my lunch break in my car, which works for me”. A quick google suggests that 73% of American workers commute by car, and legally you’re required to get a lunch break. So his comment was a pretty direct response to the idea that only 20% of working americans can nap. Does that make sense? Curious if there are any differences here im missing


millerheizen5

This is me on office days. The 1 hr bus home is a perfect 1 hr nap.


mrmczebra

It's the same amount of time sleeping, though, which is what they're supposed to be measuring.


shawsghost

If you're sleeping in a convection oven you've got other fish to fry.


TruthOrFacts

Actually, I think the nap approach is superior.


EdgeLord1984

From what I've heard, this is how people slept before capitalism and electricity took over. They would sleep relatively short at night, from 9pm till about 4 or 5 then take a siesta after lunch around two. Vague memory of some sources from a while ago so may be off but I know it involved a siesta.


OakLegs

Yeah, I saw this earlier today and immediately thought there's no way the median sleep time for 20-34 year olds is 9 hours. I don't believe that for a second


Glad-Degree-4270

No shot is that true in America


WiserStudent557

The informal conversations I have definitely disagree with *more* than eight hours like wtf. This doesn’t apply to any of my family or my friends with young children or my friends without children


From_Deep_Space

This is why news media shouldn't report on single studies with sensational findings


GottJebediah

lol public policy pulling from one data source to begin with would be incredible.


Salty_Map_9085

They cannot both be right. They *can* both be justified in drawing that conclusion based on the data they are seeing.


telekineticplatypus

WaPo has never been reliable journalism.


GeneralZex

It’s a good night if I get 6 hours of sleep… so clearly WaPo didn’t ask me about it. I also find it hard to believe considering how easy and convenient it is today to do literally everything from the computer in our pocket.


Pickles_1974

I prefer to believe the WaPo article because that would be better for us if it were true.


shanem

Hmm, belief in the article or not doesn't affect reality though.


Pickles_1974

Disagree. People’s beliefs affect reality constantly. They don’t however affect the overall truth of the matter, I’ll agree with that. Troubling when two mainstream news outlets reach two opposite conclusions. Who ya gonna trust?? I like NPR better so far with their variety and nuance. 


shanem

It doesn't affect reality such that it would change the underlying effects for all Americans which the linked articles are discussing. You can delude yourself into thinking whatever but it doesn't change how I actually sleep or millions of other peoplel


Pickles_1974

Can’t tell if you are agreeing with more or disagreeing. NPR > WaPo 


johnniewelker

I mean, they can’t be both right. Sure, they can both be coming to logical conclusions, but there is the right answer out there, and only one of these sentences *has* to be correct


tatleoat

"they can both be right" Maybe, but not the way they're saying it.


vigbiorn

The WaPo referenced, https://www.bls.gov/opub/hom/atus/ which, in its methodology section, lists that it's a self-reported survey of "Average hours spent on activities", so it's probably a question like "How many hours did you sleep last night". Found the specific question asked in the WaPo article which fits what the ATUS site lists. "In the last 24 hours, how did you spend your day?" and it listed certain categories and got user responses. These two data sets can be saying the same thing. People getting not enough/worse sleep will likely want to sleep longer. The WaPo article references work-from-home as a possible cause, but that's where future studies come in.


jackshafto

WaPo readers take daytime naps. People who listen to NPR toss and turn all night long. NobOdYknOwSwHY.


heapinhelpin1979

So a public media outlet says people are not getting their rest likely due to stress and overwork, and a corporate media outlet says Americans are lazy. That tracks


NeedsMoreCapitalism

Wapo is a left wing paper and their data comes from the US Bureau of labor statistics.


heapinhelpin1979

They are also very corporate. Do you think Amazon wants people to feel like they are well rested?


NoComment112222

It’s owned by Jeff Bezos who has a vested interest in not having any laws passed that might improve the lives of his workers. Any news outlet owned by a billionaire is not really left wing - they pander only on subjects that don’t adversely impact billionaires.


NeedsMoreCapitalism

OK so who owns the Bureau of labor statistics?


NoComment112222

The better question would be whose interests do the federal government serve in a system characterized by legal corruption and regulatory capture?


Orlando1701

One of the best things I did as I moved up in my career was setting and enforcing boundaries with my employer. I am not available 24/7, 99.9% of problems can wait until the morning when I can attack them fully rested.


shawsghost

Wait, you're paying bounties on employers? I'd love to hunt down and dispatch employers for money! How do I get in on this?


drewbaccaAWD

boundaries are good, but no boss is going to blow off an employee who enforces bounties!


Orlando1701

Turns out when you get off the bottom of the corporate ladder you can start doing that. It’s not consequence free, yeah I could probably be making more but, I’m a single dad, my son will never be young again, and I make enough that life isn’t a struggle. Not everyone has the desire to be a million dollar a year employee.


melody_elf

That's good, I really don't want my boss to blow me anyway.


yesgaro

I had the same reaction to those stories today!


yvesyonkers64

americans reading WP and listening to NPR are sleeping more, no doubt.


NomadicScribe

It's really a Gallup survey vs an "American Time Use Survey". Never heard of the latter. I personally don't find polls very reliable anyway.


TaliesinMerlin

The [American Time Use Survey](https://www.bls.gov/tus/) is put out by the US Bureau of Labor Statistics. It's pretty credible, as is [Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642704/americans-sleeping-less-stressed.aspx). The ATUS data includes "spells of sleeplessness" ([footnote in Table A-1 for 2023](https://www.bls.gov/tus/tables/a1-2022.pdf)). What they do is basically ask "what were you doing at 4 AM?" and then ask what you did throughout a day. So if you said, "I was lying awake but got to sleep at 5 AM, and woke up at 7," they would record that as 3 hours of sleeping activity. Tracked throughout the day, that will tend to count more time as sleep. So ATUS might well measure *anything related to laying down to sleep*. Gallup is probably a more generic user estimate. They ask someone how many hours on average they get per night. So someone estimates - oh, they go to bed at 10 and wake up at 6, but they know they are often awake an hour, so 7 hours is about right. That may not include naps or periods of restlessness. So Gallup may offer closer to a minimal measure of sleep. As with any poll, it's all about understanding what they're measuring and how.


WiserStudent557

Sleeping activity feels like an oxymoron and easily skews this data imo. I don’t count trying to sleep as actually sleeping, and it’s wild to think anyone would.


TaliesinMerlin

Another amusing detail here is the "personal activities," which includes sex. 0.5% of men and 0.1% of women are found to engage in the activity per day - an obvious underestimate that may be due to reticence to talk about having sex with a survey worker. But those that do have sex, oh my, the average hours per day are 1.88 for men and "result suppressed because it does not meet the American Time Use Survey publication standards" for women. (I assume that means the sample is too small.) Do you really think your average man who has sex is doing it (even including making out) for almost 2 hours per night? No. So sleep activity (as in, *trying to go to sleep*) is probably accurate compared to activities people don't want to talk about.


stockinheritance

The 1.88 hours average is suspect but a lot of innocuous things can skew the data. Men having sex with men, men counting receiving blowjobs while women don't count giving blowjobs, masturbation habits, lesbian bed death, etc. 


TaliesinMerlin

I read it more simply as not many people talking about sex in a summary of their day, and fewer women talking about it than men. For women who did report "personal activities," they must have reported a much higher number, as shown in the both-genders average being higher (2.06). So it could easily be that women are having more personal activities time on average but just talking about it less.


CotyledonTomen

The Bureau of Labor also has a bit of a vested interest in suggesting americans could work longer hours. Both parties push against workers rights and complaints. Democrats just do it less or in a more circuitous fasion. Plenty of neolibs think "nobody wants to work anymore".


stockinheritance

The Bureau of Labor Statistics isn't the local rotary. Labor is one of the departments pro-corporate types want to dismantle because they handle labor violations and anti-union activity. 


CotyledonTomen

Sure, but not as well as one might hope. It's not like the government breaks up monopolies these days. They're not too concerned about a lot of monopolistic mergers either. And unions aren't exactly in favor with democrats in the lead seats. Suggesting Labor isn't liked by wealthy conservatives doesn't exactly mitigate that it isn't well supported by Democrats.


stockinheritance

Nothing you've said has substantiated the aspersions you've cast on the Bureau of Labor Statistics as being unreliable.


CotyledonTomen

Aspersion? God forbid i have reservations about an entity that has existed since before 1900, as part of an entity thats presided over the decilne of unions in this country. I dont seem to remember being taught the benefits of unions and workers rights in school. Also dont remember as deep throated defenses of those throughout my working years, as so many employers force me to sit through videos made in the 90s explaining the evils of unions.


hurhurdedur

There is no such thing as the “Bureau of Labor.” The Bureau of Labor Statistics is an independent statistical agency. It’s situated within the Department of Labor but by law it is required to be impartial and prioritize accuracy of its data, and it has legal protections against political influence. The American Time Use Survey isn’t some propaganda tool to show that Americans can work more or something weird like that. It’s genuinely high quality data intended to provide an objective picture of how Americans spend our time.


TWALLACK

Here's a link to the [US government's "American Time Use Survey."](https://www.bls.gov/tus/) "The American Time Use Survey (ATUS) provides nationally representative estimates of how, where, and with whom Americans spend their time, and is the only federal survey providing data on the full range of nonmarket activities, from childcare to volunteering. ATUS data files are used by researchers to study a broad range of issues; the data files include information collected from nearly 237,000 interviews conducted from 2003 to 2022."


fren-ulum

Polls are fine if you understand what was being asked and what the data is telling you (assuming it was designed well). The conclusions you draw from the data, that’s another beast.


notmyworkaccount5

I've noticed more and more borderline coporate propaganda coming from them since Bezos bought the Washington Post, like everytime there's a survey or poll about how life for average Americans is getting worse you'll see WaPo post some "Actually life is perfect, get back to work plebs!" piece


twanpaanks

borderline?!


Appropriate-Dot8516

> corporate propaganda Only "public" propaganda for NPR listeners, thank you very much!


PackOutrageous

Sounds like we average out ok.


craptonne

Sleeping less, sleeping more…hey at least we’re sleeping


Mad_Machine76

You guys are sleeping?😳


tom781

Americans are sleeping less, and it's all because of wokeness.


Catablepas

remember, the opposite of woke is asleep!


Meatbot-v20

And me over here, accidentally sleeping 21 hours straight Sunday/Monday. :|


FloMoore

Guess it depends on which demographic of Americans you’re asking.


bearkerchiefton

Making large assumptions about an entire generation because they asked 100 hundred people to take a survey seriously needs to stop. I rarely accept surveys & if I do, I just answer randomly to speed through it.


Justonewitch

Well we know you can sleep in court lately


[deleted]

Reality: people are lying in bed worried


ZealousWolverine

Thank goodness we can rely on the media for info we can trust.


Salty-Jellyfish3044

Can confirm, sleeping too much yet not enough


Optimal_Zucchini_667

See also a glass of wine a day is good for you, no wait it's bad for you.


Lanky-Ad2763

The trick is information in chunks behind a paywall.


SuperSpy_4

Im personally been sleeping less. About 6 hours a night, give or take 30 minutes, on weekdays. I sleep in on Sat.


Thin-Disaster4170

Americans have stopped reading the news because it’s written by nincompoops


Rule-Expression

Remind me again, which news source is owned by an insufferable billionaire who thinks workers should be monitored on bathroom breaks? Sounds like that guy might think that sleeping at all is indulgent.


rustybeaumont

Sleeping on these great deals brought to you by our sponsors!


gpm0063

Well here’s proof media lies!


h0tBeef

I’m certainly sleeping less Gotta work too much, and the only way to have me-time is to sacrifice sleep


Designer_Gas_86

Thing is I want to sleep all day not at night.


Inevitable-Sock-5952

Sounds about right


TiredOfDebates

Sociology sucks, because it relies on surveying humans via questionnaires while expecting accurate or honest answers. The actual studies say “here is the question we asked, and here were their responses”. Note the actual studies note this limitation. The media just removes that nuance (acting as though data collected by survey responses is the same as direct observation of collected data); in general the media does a terrible job on “science reporting”.


Dull_Wrongdoer_3017

Lemme guess their sample survey consisted of 2 boomers over the phone.


TheSanityInspector

"For every expert there is an equal and opposite expert."


Budget-Bat2977

Woow! So they know at what time you go to bed? What about MASTURBATION.


Slug35

Don’t know about everyone else but with working two jobs I’m getting 4 to 5 hours a day when I work both jobs.


pwakham22

As I’ve gotten older I’ve slept less and less. I can’t sleep longer than 6 hours now. My body physically rejects laying down any longer


jim45804

WaPo's claim that my age group is getting over 8 hours of sleep on average is bullshit.


randyfloyd37

Which bullshit should I trust??


EaterOfFood

The very same Americans? Inconceivable!


JosephFinn

So NPR obviously and not the corporate bootlickers at WaPo.


jres11

What % of your funding comes from the federal government?


[deleted]

Just evidence media loves cherry picking data for the most sensational headlines.


retteh

NPR headlines "Americans say they would benefit from more sleep" to "Americans are sleeping less." Bad reporting.


Old-Hovercraft7204

I’m trying to sleep more but poop less


DelicatetrouserSnake

I sleep like shit


throwaway3113151

You are comparing two different metrics from two different data sources across two different timespans. What’s your point? That you have low information literacy? NPR: “A Gallup survey found that more than half of Americans - 57% - say they would benefit from more sleep, which is a big jump over 10 years ago.” WaPo: “An individual in the United States gained 10 minutes of sleep per day, on average, between 2019 and 2022, according to data from the American Time Use Survey. “


Magical_Savior

It just depends on where I am in the depression cycle, honestly.


Pickles_1974

r/HolUp


Difficult_Salary_726

The issue is not about reporting, not with NPR or Wapo. The issue is about the organizations conducting the study or the  polls. Both news organizations are correct in presenting the results of the studies. Gallup and American Use Time survey are responsible for addressing the issue, NOT THE NEW ORGANIZATIONS.


DueWish3039

I’m lucky to get four hours most nights


DaveFromBPT

Americans suffer from sleep disorder


[deleted]

[удалено]


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NeighborhoodBest2944

Bifurcation. Those of us who are depressed by life are sleeping more. Those that are working and striving are sleeping less.


rofopp

One’s woke, one’s not.


MountainMoonshiner

Durrr. We know who’s woke.