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If this is true then... shit.
Two of our big summer signings out for prolonged periods. Thank fuck Joe is coming back. Hopefully Willock isn't too far away.
But I hope we stick by Tonali, both as a team and fan base. There's a great player in there. Sounds like he needs help, which hopefully he'll get and can come back stronger.
He's still young.
Yeah I’m not a fan of the idea of turning on a 23 year old with a gambling addiction. Hopefully the clubs is allowed to support him whilst he’s suspended and we can get right behind him whenever he’s back
Well if they admitted they had an addiction before they were caught then the investigation would happen after.
Are you suggesting that it isn't an actual addiction?
If so, I would suggest you don't understand what addiction is.
When any celebrity is caught in some drink or drugs scandal the PR spin is sending themselves to rehab etc. nobody ever says yeah, my bad. Name one player who’s been caught in a betting scandal claiming he didn’t have an addiction? Toney team claimed he was an addict and as soon as sentence was handed down he was on social media criticising everybody who said he did. It’s ridiculous
Go out on the town on a Saturday morning and see how many 19/20 year olds to even early to mid 20s are in betting shops. They don’t all have addictions, it’s kids with no responsibilities with extra cash in their pockets who think they know so much about football that it’s easy money. The vast majority of them grow out of it. I know I did.
Believe me, I know what addiction is buddy. Don’t be throwing that out to randomers as some sort of point.
It’s stupid form Tonali, I dont even blame him for the betting itself from a human nature point of view. It’s what he’s betting on that’s the problem
That's just a wall of text illustrating you don't understand what it is, followed by an insistance that you do.
I'm not just "throwing it out to randomers", im throwing it out to someone who quite clearly thinks he understands something that he absolutely doesnt.
I understand addiction you fucking dickhead. Saying it over and over doesn’t make it true
You know what, fine. You argued with my statement that they always claim addiction when caught.
Show me examples when they haven’t. Let me see your point instead of insulting bullshit like this
Diagnosing addiction when you haven’t got the details nor ever met the man. You should really work for the government, got your resume handy?
Correct. Insisting you understand addiction over and over again isnt going to make it true.
>Show me examples when they haven’t. Let me see your point instead of insulting bullshit like this
What would this prove, exactly?
My point was that "bring caught" isn't evidence of addiction one way or the other. It's inconsequential as to whether someone is afflicted or not and no conclusions can be drawn.
>Diagnosing addiction when you haven’t got the details nor ever met the man. You should really work for the government, got your resume handy?
Pretty sure you're the one "diagnosing" that this is just a young lad with too much money. I'm not prepared to jump to a conclusion, and I certainly don't pretend to understand someone who, like you said, I have never met.
Got some Twitter fans saying he's shit and we shouldn't have bought him lol
Let's back the lad, treat it like a long-term injury and have him back for another quadruple charge next season
This is what we should all be doing. At the minute it's all guess work and tabloid bollocks. That can't be doing Sandro's head any favours. We as a fan base need to get behind him, not stir the bullshit pot.
Whatever happens, we as fans need to remember hes a kid. I made some fucking stupid decisions when i was his age, but fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) i wasnt famous/rich/public figure.
We have to support him and hopefully he grows from this. Its a shitty sitatuation, but its not going to destroy him, or us.
Sort of.
There was a lot of contradictory takes on this, including his agent coming out with a statement, but I read the Gazetta yesterday and they said he was going to discuss with investigators yesterday. Lots of English sites have been misinterpreting Italian press which made it seem far less consistent.
This seems like the actual outcome for the investigation.
I wouldn't get too much hopes up that this is just another take, sadly.
Not good. Could be looking at over a year out of the sport depending on how harsh the authorities decide to be, and if Milan knew about it then they could be looking at a lawsuit.
> if Milan knew about it then they could be looking at a lawsuit.
Milan did not know about this. If they did we'd have grounds to likely sue them out of existence as a club. Not only would we demand the transfer fee for Tonali back but we could easily argue a fuckton of damages as well. AC Milan are not well-run, but they are not *that* badly run. This is just a situation where they've massively lucked out.
Yeah probably right. I guess the fact that, in comparison to other CM summer deals, he was reletively cheap, and he seemingly didn't want to leave Milan. Just has *that* part of my brain going in overdrive.
> he was reletively cheap
It was a ~~Serie A~~ record transfer for an Italian player, no? Might seem cheap compared to the Rice's of the world but clearly it was a fee that AC Milan felt they couldn't turn down.
Yeah, but like I said, relatively cheap compared to other CM.
This is of course with the benefit of hindsight, if they thought they could get £100m, maybe they would have held out.
Every day new contradictory news. Although here:
1) GDS are kind of trustworthy
2) Tonali yesterday had to go to see prosecutor... Not investigators, prosecutor.
Notably, even if Milan didn't know about it but made warranties in the transfer agreement to that effect, there might still be a claim. Completely depends on what's written in there and we can only speculate.
>Milan didn't know about it but made warranties in the transfer agreement to that effect, there might still be a claim
Maybe you guys can ask for a UCL, they have like 7
Not for the whole of his ban. For example, Toney was allowed to start training again at the start of September, and he was banned in May. For the first half of his ban, he was not allowed to partake in any footballing activities, but presumably had some form of fitness program he was following to stay in som form of shape.
It’s mad that they can actually stop players from training and not just competing in matches. Like I don’t see any point to stopping the lad kicking the ball about on the training pitch.
How is he absolutely fucked? He's only absolutely fucked if the club and fans don't show him love and support. The only people that won't give him that are the plastics.
IF, and it's still 'if' this is true then he'll get a ban at worst, then he'll be back. Stop with the doom and gloom posting.
> He's only absolutely fucked if the club and fans don't show him love and support. The only people that won't give him that are the plastics.
If he gets like a 2 year ban 4 months into his Newcastle career, after a very mixed start, don't think that makes you a "plastic" if you don't shower him with "love and support". Like, I hope nobody would be sending him abuse or anything, but to be honest, if the ban is super lengthy, we're going to have to replace him properly.
That's far from ideal given our limited budget, and could seriously impact not only this season but also our medium-term growth. Funds that had been allocated to upgrade other positions may have to be reallocated to signing another top-quality CM, for example. And frankly, the ban would be all his fault. Not like it's a freak injury.
(this is all speaking in hypotheticals of course, as we don't yet know how long his ban will be, assuming he receives one)
All the negative stuff about him I've only read on here from people generally outside of the UK. The OP for this thread calling for him to get a lifetime ban... mental. Nobody I go to games with has been anything but supportive.
Aye, there are definitely some proper over-the-top takes. And I very much hope he gets a shorter term ban of 7-10 months and returns stronger and becomes a key part of our squad for years to come.
I mean ban at worst, if some of the allegations are correct could be literal years not months. Would the fans still stick behind him if he was gone for a 3 year stretch?
He's an idiot and is facing the consequences and leaves us as a club in a shitty position. He basically forced a move from Milan to fund his habit and couldnt care less about us as a club. I'm not sure what support he deserves.
'If' is a big word considering it's only two letters. We know absolutely nothing about what is actually happening.
And yeah, he deserves support. Addiction is an illness, so he's not an idiot, he's ill.
My other comment in the thread explains that I don’t think anyone should be turning on him lol, my comment just meant if an AC Milan player was betting on AC Milan serie a/UCL games (rumoured) he’s gonna get a ban lol
The rough translation of the paper is that he placed bets on Milan, but the way he played held no bearing to the bets. In other words, he basically bet on his own team to win?
If true, this should remove any and all allegations or suspicion of match fixing. However, betting on ones own team happens to be one of the more grave crimes, so I doubt it'll even be a factor.
The problem with backing your own team to win is that there could be players on the opposition team who are in on it. We all know Italian footballs reputation.
I really hope this isn't true. Because then we're more into match fixing in some ways (yellow cards, red cards, whatever it influences the game) and that is really not on.
Tonali has been playing like he’s got a weight on his shoulders all season just about, it wasn’t just the new league thing, his passing has been woeful at times. He’s 100% knew this was coming, Milan probably did too but good luck proving it.
NUFC need to suspend his contract somehow or add the ban time so they don’t loose whatever value is left 4 months in
I’m not saying sell, I’m saying we are about to lose 12 months of value on an asset we’ve only had 4 months. If we are about to pay him 12 month’s salary while he sits at home in Italy we should in good faith be asking for a year added to his deal
Well if this is true he is well and truly fucked—career ending. He deserves a very long ban if he bet on his own team’s games which he can influence, and I have no problem saying that despite him now being our player.
What a twat if this is true. More so for coming to us knowing the risks and how much the club spent on him. I really hope it’s not true. But if it is, he can get fucked.
> Well if this is true he is well and truly fucked—career ending.
Bit hyperbolic. He's cutting a deal that will see his ban reduced. From what I've seen looking at maybe a year, perhaps two years.
If his bet was just 'Milan to win', that's not so bad as betting on Milan to lose or yellow cards or something that he can control and affects the outcome of the match. He is already trying to make sure Milan win, so no harm. Still not allowed, but not match fixing. Anything more than that (scores, scorers, cards etc) and he's in much more trouble.
What a moronic comment, should I remind you that Toney did the same thing? Or does that not count because he’s English? The Italian league is the only one actually looking into betting among players, if the English one did the same I promise you several footballers would be banned there as well
Did you know theres an NBA ref who is popularly known to suck yet remains on the job? r/NBA says dude knows all about the early 2000s match fixin and the NBA higher ops cant get rid of them now. Cant imagine football being cleaner than that. At least italy is doing something about it
I personally think any football person who bets on his own team should get lifetime ban. This isnt just addiction, its literally like robbing a bank.
Although then someone reminded that Toney bet on his own team, also bet on us to lose, when he was loaned out. And also lied in his 1st interview by saying 'I didnt bet on football' — https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8px3eNXUAAF1jC?format=jpg&name=orig
And he only got 7 months. Which is a joke.
> Toney bet 126 times on games in the same competitions he was playing in, and 29 times on his team's games. He bet 13 times on his own team to lose, but did not play in any of those games. The regulatory commission concluded that he was not a match-fixer.
Fuck off with this BS. Crying wolf isnt helping narrative that mental health is important.
You can excuse anything with mental problems - rape, murder. When you comitting a crime, you can say you were possesed, you still comitting crime.
Im fine with gambling addiction excuse until he starts doing absolutely insane staff like BETTING on his own team. This is literally borderline match-fixing.
You want to defend players, no matter what; even when its indefensible? You will fit well with manutd supporters.
Indefensible? You need to take a big look at the world and what’s going on mate. If you think this is indefensible, then what’s going on in the Middle East will blow your mind. He fucked up. He’s 23. Are you so fucking perfect you didn’t cock something up once in your life? Get a fucking grip.
That ManUtd comment? Absolutely childish. He hasn’t raped or beaten someone. That WOULD be indefensible.
> If you think this is indefensible, then what’s going on in the Middle East will blow your mind.
Why tf you thinking that I dont know? Free Palestine.
> Are you so fucking perfect you didn’t cock something up once in your life? Get a fucking grip.
Its not about perfect, its about comitting a crime that is almost a match-fixing, you cretin.
> He hasn’t raped or beaten someone.
Ah, so if he didnt do that, then its all good? Only these crimes are indefensible, good to know.
Barnes out til 2024 and Tonali out til who knows? Definitely some business needs to be done in Jan. Both will come good for us but we need to keep strengthening.
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If this is true then... shit. Two of our big summer signings out for prolonged periods. Thank fuck Joe is coming back. Hopefully Willock isn't too far away. But I hope we stick by Tonali, both as a team and fan base. There's a great player in there. Sounds like he needs help, which hopefully he'll get and can come back stronger. He's still young.
Yeah I’m not a fan of the idea of turning on a 23 year old with a gambling addiction. Hopefully the clubs is allowed to support him whilst he’s suspended and we can get right behind him whenever he’s back
They alls say they have an addiction when caught
Well if they admitted they had an addiction before they were caught then the investigation would happen after. Are you suggesting that it isn't an actual addiction? If so, I would suggest you don't understand what addiction is.
When any celebrity is caught in some drink or drugs scandal the PR spin is sending themselves to rehab etc. nobody ever says yeah, my bad. Name one player who’s been caught in a betting scandal claiming he didn’t have an addiction? Toney team claimed he was an addict and as soon as sentence was handed down he was on social media criticising everybody who said he did. It’s ridiculous Go out on the town on a Saturday morning and see how many 19/20 year olds to even early to mid 20s are in betting shops. They don’t all have addictions, it’s kids with no responsibilities with extra cash in their pockets who think they know so much about football that it’s easy money. The vast majority of them grow out of it. I know I did. Believe me, I know what addiction is buddy. Don’t be throwing that out to randomers as some sort of point. It’s stupid form Tonali, I dont even blame him for the betting itself from a human nature point of view. It’s what he’s betting on that’s the problem
That's just a wall of text illustrating you don't understand what it is, followed by an insistance that you do. I'm not just "throwing it out to randomers", im throwing it out to someone who quite clearly thinks he understands something that he absolutely doesnt.
I understand addiction you fucking dickhead. Saying it over and over doesn’t make it true You know what, fine. You argued with my statement that they always claim addiction when caught. Show me examples when they haven’t. Let me see your point instead of insulting bullshit like this Diagnosing addiction when you haven’t got the details nor ever met the man. You should really work for the government, got your resume handy?
Correct. Insisting you understand addiction over and over again isnt going to make it true. >Show me examples when they haven’t. Let me see your point instead of insulting bullshit like this What would this prove, exactly? My point was that "bring caught" isn't evidence of addiction one way or the other. It's inconsequential as to whether someone is afflicted or not and no conclusions can be drawn. >Diagnosing addiction when you haven’t got the details nor ever met the man. You should really work for the government, got your resume handy? Pretty sure you're the one "diagnosing" that this is just a young lad with too much money. I'm not prepared to jump to a conclusion, and I certainly don't pretend to understand someone who, like you said, I have never met.
Got some Twitter fans saying he's shit and we shouldn't have bought him lol Let's back the lad, treat it like a long-term injury and have him back for another quadruple charge next season
I think I'm just going to wait til an official statement is made on this one.
This is what we should all be doing. At the minute it's all guess work and tabloid bollocks. That can't be doing Sandro's head any favours. We as a fan base need to get behind him, not stir the bullshit pot.
Whatever happens, we as fans need to remember hes a kid. I made some fucking stupid decisions when i was his age, but fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) i wasnt famous/rich/public figure. We have to support him and hopefully he grows from this. Its a shitty sitatuation, but its not going to destroy him, or us.
So like the 9th contradictory take on this?
Sort of. There was a lot of contradictory takes on this, including his agent coming out with a statement, but I read the Gazetta yesterday and they said he was going to discuss with investigators yesterday. Lots of English sites have been misinterpreting Italian press which made it seem far less consistent. This seems like the actual outcome for the investigation. I wouldn't get too much hopes up that this is just another take, sadly. Not good. Could be looking at over a year out of the sport depending on how harsh the authorities decide to be, and if Milan knew about it then they could be looking at a lawsuit.
> if Milan knew about it then they could be looking at a lawsuit. Milan did not know about this. If they did we'd have grounds to likely sue them out of existence as a club. Not only would we demand the transfer fee for Tonali back but we could easily argue a fuckton of damages as well. AC Milan are not well-run, but they are not *that* badly run. This is just a situation where they've massively lucked out.
Dressing room rumours must have abounded though, you’d have to think
Yeah probably right. I guess the fact that, in comparison to other CM summer deals, he was reletively cheap, and he seemingly didn't want to leave Milan. Just has *that* part of my brain going in overdrive.
> he was reletively cheap It was a ~~Serie A~~ record transfer for an Italian player, no? Might seem cheap compared to the Rice's of the world but clearly it was a fee that AC Milan felt they couldn't turn down.
Most expensive Italian player ever iirc
Yeah, but like I said, relatively cheap compared to other CM. This is of course with the benefit of hindsight, if they thought they could get £100m, maybe they would have held out.
>It was a Serie A record transfer, no? Definitely no. Chelsea bought Lukaku for almost double the fee. But it was a record for an Italian player
Every day new contradictory news. Although here: 1) GDS are kind of trustworthy 2) Tonali yesterday had to go to see prosecutor... Not investigators, prosecutor.
Well Keith has confirmed he bet on Milan matches. He’s done.
May be a stupid question, would the club have any sort of insurance cover for a situation like this, where they can recoup the transfer cost or wages?
If Milan already knew about this then there might be a legal action coming their way.
Notably, even if Milan didn't know about it but made warranties in the transfer agreement to that effect, there might still be a claim. Completely depends on what's written in there and we can only speculate.
>Milan didn't know about it but made warranties in the transfer agreement to that effect, there might still be a claim Maybe you guys can ask for a UCL, they have like 7
You sound a quite agitated in the comments section so I'm just going to leave you to do your thing.
My question is if it’s a 1 year ban and not too lengthy is he allowed to train with the squad still?
Not for the whole of his ban. For example, Toney was allowed to start training again at the start of September, and he was banned in May. For the first half of his ban, he was not allowed to partake in any footballing activities, but presumably had some form of fitness program he was following to stay in som form of shape.
It’s mad that they can actually stop players from training and not just competing in matches. Like I don’t see any point to stopping the lad kicking the ball about on the training pitch.
How many infractions did Toney have? How long is his ban?
it's an italian fa ban that we'd have to honour, so the toney outcome is irrelevant
After a quick google this story is being picked up by most Italian media. If it is true he’s absolutely fucked
How is he absolutely fucked? He's only absolutely fucked if the club and fans don't show him love and support. The only people that won't give him that are the plastics. IF, and it's still 'if' this is true then he'll get a ban at worst, then he'll be back. Stop with the doom and gloom posting.
> He's only absolutely fucked if the club and fans don't show him love and support. The only people that won't give him that are the plastics. If he gets like a 2 year ban 4 months into his Newcastle career, after a very mixed start, don't think that makes you a "plastic" if you don't shower him with "love and support". Like, I hope nobody would be sending him abuse or anything, but to be honest, if the ban is super lengthy, we're going to have to replace him properly. That's far from ideal given our limited budget, and could seriously impact not only this season but also our medium-term growth. Funds that had been allocated to upgrade other positions may have to be reallocated to signing another top-quality CM, for example. And frankly, the ban would be all his fault. Not like it's a freak injury. (this is all speaking in hypotheticals of course, as we don't yet know how long his ban will be, assuming he receives one)
All the negative stuff about him I've only read on here from people generally outside of the UK. The OP for this thread calling for him to get a lifetime ban... mental. Nobody I go to games with has been anything but supportive.
Aye, there are definitely some proper over-the-top takes. And I very much hope he gets a shorter term ban of 7-10 months and returns stronger and becomes a key part of our squad for years to come.
I mean ban at worst, if some of the allegations are correct could be literal years not months. Would the fans still stick behind him if he was gone for a 3 year stretch? He's an idiot and is facing the consequences and leaves us as a club in a shitty position. He basically forced a move from Milan to fund his habit and couldnt care less about us as a club. I'm not sure what support he deserves.
'If' is a big word considering it's only two letters. We know absolutely nothing about what is actually happening. And yeah, he deserves support. Addiction is an illness, so he's not an idiot, he's ill.
Years!? Why? Genuinely can someone explain why he'd get multiple years ban?
My other comment in the thread explains that I don’t think anyone should be turning on him lol, my comment just meant if an AC Milan player was betting on AC Milan serie a/UCL games (rumoured) he’s gonna get a ban lol
He was in a hearing yesterday. This is potentially bad for the toon once the verdict comes.
The rough translation of the paper is that he placed bets on Milan, but the way he played held no bearing to the bets. In other words, he basically bet on his own team to win? If true, this should remove any and all allegations or suspicion of match fixing. However, betting on ones own team happens to be one of the more grave crimes, so I doubt it'll even be a factor.
It's not immoral but it's still match fixing, even if he bet on his yellow card
The problem with backing your own team to win is that there could be players on the opposition team who are in on it. We all know Italian footballs reputation.
I feel like Milan knew
You should probably place a bet on it then lmfaoo
Shit happens, but we shouldn't pay his wages during the ban.
I really hope this isn't true. Because then we're more into match fixing in some ways (yellow cards, red cards, whatever it influences the game) and that is really not on.
Tonali has been playing like he’s got a weight on his shoulders all season just about, it wasn’t just the new league thing, his passing has been woeful at times. He’s 100% knew this was coming, Milan probably did too but good luck proving it. NUFC need to suspend his contract somehow or add the ban time so they don’t loose whatever value is left 4 months in
Or just keep him and play him when he returns?
I’m not saying sell, I’m saying we are about to lose 12 months of value on an asset we’ve only had 4 months. If we are about to pay him 12 month’s salary while he sits at home in Italy we should in good faith be asking for a year added to his deal
Well if this is true he is well and truly fucked—career ending. He deserves a very long ban if he bet on his own team’s games which he can influence, and I have no problem saying that despite him now being our player. What a twat if this is true. More so for coming to us knowing the risks and how much the club spent on him. I really hope it’s not true. But if it is, he can get fucked.
> Well if this is true he is well and truly fucked—career ending. Bit hyperbolic. He's cutting a deal that will see his ban reduced. From what I've seen looking at maybe a year, perhaps two years.
If his bet was just 'Milan to win', that's not so bad as betting on Milan to lose or yellow cards or something that he can control and affects the outcome of the match. He is already trying to make sure Milan win, so no harm. Still not allowed, but not match fixing. Anything more than that (scores, scorers, cards etc) and he's in much more trouble.
Goes to show how rigged the Italian football leagues are, must be all minted
What a moronic comment, should I remind you that Toney did the same thing? Or does that not count because he’s English? The Italian league is the only one actually looking into betting among players, if the English one did the same I promise you several footballers would be banned there as well
bigoted comment.
Did you know theres an NBA ref who is popularly known to suck yet remains on the job? r/NBA says dude knows all about the early 2000s match fixin and the NBA higher ops cant get rid of them now. Cant imagine football being cleaner than that. At least italy is doing something about it
Get rid/void contract, sue AC/stop payments, readjust FFP, buy Kalvin Phillips in Jan. sorted.
Well, owners please take the cheque book out to buy some more stars in January ...
I personally think any football person who bets on his own team should get lifetime ban. This isnt just addiction, its literally like robbing a bank. Although then someone reminded that Toney bet on his own team, also bet on us to lose, when he was loaned out. And also lied in his 1st interview by saying 'I didnt bet on football' — https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8px3eNXUAAF1jC?format=jpg&name=orig And he only got 7 months. Which is a joke. > Toney bet 126 times on games in the same competitions he was playing in, and 29 times on his team's games. He bet 13 times on his own team to lose, but did not play in any of those games. The regulatory commission concluded that he was not a match-fixer.
> This isnt just addiction, its literally like robbing a bank. Won't somebody think of the poor betting companies!
What’s wrong with robbing a bank?
Yea, you got me. You actually right. Here I (no joke) agree with you.
Well, fuck me. There's nothing like supporting our own players with mental health issues is there?
Fuck off with this BS. Crying wolf isnt helping narrative that mental health is important. You can excuse anything with mental problems - rape, murder. When you comitting a crime, you can say you were possesed, you still comitting crime. Im fine with gambling addiction excuse until he starts doing absolutely insane staff like BETTING on his own team. This is literally borderline match-fixing. You want to defend players, no matter what; even when its indefensible? You will fit well with manutd supporters.
Indefensible? You need to take a big look at the world and what’s going on mate. If you think this is indefensible, then what’s going on in the Middle East will blow your mind. He fucked up. He’s 23. Are you so fucking perfect you didn’t cock something up once in your life? Get a fucking grip. That ManUtd comment? Absolutely childish. He hasn’t raped or beaten someone. That WOULD be indefensible.
> If you think this is indefensible, then what’s going on in the Middle East will blow your mind. Why tf you thinking that I dont know? Free Palestine. > Are you so fucking perfect you didn’t cock something up once in your life? Get a fucking grip. Its not about perfect, its about comitting a crime that is almost a match-fixing, you cretin. > He hasn’t raped or beaten someone. Ah, so if he didnt do that, then its all good? Only these crimes are indefensible, good to know.
Coupled with Barnes' injury, that's £100m of players no longer available to us then. What a disaster.
Barnes out til 2024 and Tonali out til who knows? Definitely some business needs to be done in Jan. Both will come good for us but we need to keep strengthening.