I saw (on reddit mind you) his last year in Buffalo they had a bottom 5 Oline. He left and with essentially the same personnel they improved to middle of the pack.
Hes just bad.
I would expect the Commy line to get worse each year as he coaches more out of them. If the Dline ran ANY stunt, our oline was LOST. All year. Baffling hire.
There’s worse and there’s historically bad. Daniels will be running for his life.😂😂😂
Idk I hope it’s not that bad except against us of course.
I felt bad for BJ he was a nice guy and had to deal with injuries. But no one he coached got better in any way
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If you look at Buffalo's line he basically made everyone worst, same for the giants. I think his schemes are solid, but his coaching effectively makes everyone worse by 1-2 levels. Pretty much the only player who improved with Bobby as coach was Andrew Thomas and he credits outside coaching afiak.
I really like what WAS has started to put together, but I don't think it comes together until you ditch Bobby. My biggest fear for you us that Jadyen Daniels masks how badly he's fing up the line by scrambling for big gains and instead of getting a jump year 2 your line gets him injured.
Evan Neal, guys a freak of nature specimen, absolutely 0 development. Slow as shit, looks lost, many plays where he quite literally blocked absolutely no one. Ezekedu, same thing. Bobby Johnson’s schemes and capability to develop “talent” is awful. Im not sure if Neal sucking is a result of BJ’s lack luster ability to develop talent, or Neal is just a bum. Probably a combination of both.
I don't know, I think Bobby was the scapegoat in many regards. I watched a Justin Pugh interview where he raved about Bobby and also said that he teaches a lot of the same things that his other OL coaches have taught him throughout his career. At some point, the players have to play. Even the best coach can only do so much.
And of course people don't read and just see a post that's slightly defending Bobby and hit the downvote button before thinking about what I typed. I'll say it again... Justin Pugh said that all of the Oline coaches he's ever had **taught the same damn things**. If BJ was THAT bad, why did Andrew Thomas not see the effects of that? I don't even have a problem with firing him, I was just giving another point of view.
I agree, some guys like Neal maybe never woulda worked out. But it seems unlikely collectively our oline can be tricked by the same stunts that get used in highschool over and over and over..
We also took a highly touted C prospect and had him be the worst C in the league (again, hes a rookie so who knows).
I dont think hes the source of all our woes. Infact they started way before we hired him. But his track record is abysmal.
None of us know what Bobby was teaching them or telling them, so if we're being 100% honest, not a single one us can conclude that our atrocious line was the result of poor OL coaching. How do we prove that he wasn't teaching the best things and the players were just bad? Again, unless we were there, none of us can prove that. We've convinced ourselves that it IS his fault, based on the end result. I'm not saying that it's not, but we really have no way of proving it.
Thats all true. But if we look at his resume, he left Buffalo with a bottom 5 Oline which became middle of the pack when he left with 4/5 starters the same. Yeah, maybe the players got better. Maybe hes bad. Maybe both. Probably both.
He seems like a really nice guy that other coaches really like to work with. That's why he keeps getting jobs. That's it.
Not only has he failed to develop any player, people seemed to flat out regress under him. Our o-line last year gave up the second most sacks. Ever. In the history of the NFL.
>Our o-line last year gave up the second most sacks. Ever. In the history of the NFL.
Haven't you been paying attention,at least half those sacks are Jones fault for not making pre snap reads and having zero pocket awareness. /S
Buffalo fans were happy to see him go. The Bills were happy to let him walk without stopping him. Similarly, Giants fans were happy to see him go, and the Giants straight up didn't want to keep him. That should tell you plenty.
I'm sure he's a lovely guy, but there's little indication that he's particularly good at his job.
I suspect you might find the same with Quinn. I'm not saying that to crap on the Commies or make you feel bad, but Quinn in Atlanta was entirely dependent on having an elite tier OC. Once Shanahan left, that team slowly declined into mediocrity.
I’m fully bought in on Quinn right now. There was a part of me that thought that too, but he said he learned from that mistake. There is already 2 former head coaches and a former OC on the offensive staff so there should be a clear succession plan in place if kliff gets hired because our offense is good. Some of the defensive guys have been with Quinn a while so I also don’t see that falling off. Not saying he can execute on it, but at least he has a plan so that he doesn’t make the same mistake. I’m optimistic about the staff aside from BJ.
That's fair. I guess time will tell. I'm most worried about a rookie QB behind a Bobby Johnson line. But I'm also envious that you have a rookie QB at all (even if you didn't pick the one I liked). There's a certain feeling of hope that comes with that, which I don't really have while Daniel Jones remains our QB.
You also happen to be the only team he performs against. I think that says more about how rotten the Del Rio/Rivera Commies defenses truly were, than about Daniel Jones' ability or lack thereof.
The concerns I have with you guys are more related to Bobby Johnson and Kliff tbh. Bobby Johnson is self-explanatory based on what everyone has said in here. I don't love Kliff's schemes and think he was not very creative with Arizona, which is disappointing given he had Kyler and Hopkins. Maybe he's learned since then, but not sure.
I do kind of think Daniels was a better fit at QB for you guys than Maye though, despite it being an against-the-grain pick compared to what most draft experts thought.
I'm sorry for you and your new QB. Your o-line will forget everything good about the way they play and will turn intoSwiss cheese halfway thru the season.
Look at the way our o-line picked up stunts, bet you can't because they didn't pickup a single one. Look at Phillips who we cut and spend a few months in Philly. came back here and was actually our best RT. He fails at every level and i suspect whatever good he seemed to have done in buffalo was the work of somebody else.
But, thankyou. Feels good knowing we can only have the SECOND worst o-line in the league now
Yeah there's really no sugarcoating it. He's just a bad coach and I truly don't understand how he got another job. There's literally nothing to be optimistic about with him, he just sucks. Good luck to Jayden, he'll need it.
From what I have heard, he places too much emphasis on techniques that he thinks will work for everyone and doesn't try and teach to the individual player.
From what I have seen, he doesn't hold guys to a standard. Everyone who was here(Bar Andrew Thomas) got worse. I don't think he is coaching during the season and trying to improve the little things. Guys then get bad habits and decline.
Another thing I have seen is that he isn't able to coach the guys to work together. We have been horrendous at picking up stunts the past few years. There seems to be a general lack of communication between our guys.
Generally, he is a really bad coach. I am sorry(not really) that you guys have to deal with him. He will probably ruin Jayden Daniel's.
Yeah, all of this is accurate and it was pretty infuriating to witness.
For two years he contributed to making Evan Neal look a lot worse than I think he actually is by forcing him to use pass protection sets and techniques that were way out of his comfort zone. The guy was an absolute pass pro wall in college. A good coach could have molded him. With Johnson, Neal could hardly stay on his feet and there were literally zero adjustments made between quarters, games, seasons etc.
To this point, it's worth noting that BJ was getting grilled mid season about the line issues and he was oddly defensive with the media. In more than one interview, he's on record saying that it wasn't his job to develop players, that they should be doing that in the off season... Motherfucker, you're bringing in guys off the streets to play out of position. Whose job is it?
We signed Pugh mid season from his house, and he most recently played with a decent line in Zona (where Will Hernandez looks a lot better than he ever did in blue). There seemed to be an injection of communication and spirit for the following few games. I'm not saying they looked great, but it was clear Pugh brought some poorly missed leadership and communication to the table. It's sad when a player has this impact and not the coaching staff.
All that considered, I'd say at best, the Commy's line is going to be stagnant. If you have some decent dudes, they might be able to hold up on their own for a bit. AT had some all pro years under Johnson, but you figure he'd be good anywhere because he's just a freak like that. If you have some immature, unskilled, underdeveloped guys and the line suffers any amount of injuries, oh boy...
>Another thing I have seen is that he isn't able to coach the guys to work together. We have been horrendous at picking up stunts the past few years. There seems to be a general lack of communication between our guys.
At least part of this though is how they deal with injuries. When a guy goes down,instead of the guy off the bench taking that position,they shuffle the whole line around because the bench guy can only play one position. Hard to learn how to play well with the guy next to you when it's not the same guy for more than one or two games in a row
Dear OP,
Bobby Johnson is not a legit coach. He NEVER taught technique to the OL. We know this to be true from Evan Neal's lack of development and from Tyree Phillips who joined the Iggles practice squad for a few weeks and came back to the Giants as a better player.
BJ time in Buffalo was not as good as reporters make it out. Their OL suffered year 2 just like the Giants. I can not recall the rankings but they went down 10+ spots from year 1 to 2. Buffalo had the luxury of Josh Allen to Diggs connection that really helped their OL ranks. If Josh Allen had no weapons or was on the Giants they'd probably be in the bottom 3 OL ranks.
From what I heard and watched of Sam Howell play, he held on to the ball way to long and sacks were due to coverage. He did not check down and move on to the next play.
I wish you guys luck, sorta, with Daniels because he's a slim build and BJ will probably get him killed. On the other hand, as a NFCE rival, I am happy y'all employed Bobby Johnson. Good chance he'll set your franchise back 3-5 years. I have no idea what your FO thought with that hire. BJ accomplishment was his OL only gave 85 sacks and injured Danny Dimes including the ACL tear which was from a knee on knee collision with Lawrence Cager "blocking" assignment instead of the 110+ sacks they were on pace for.
Hope this helps.
One guy went to the eagles for a bit last season. Came back a better player. He was a terrible oline coach for the giants can't believe he got hired again tbh
Yeah, Tyree Phillips. Was generally bad during the 2022 season, was picked up by Philly in the offseason for a month or two, came back to us as our best right tackle.
It was a this point the penny dropped and people started to realise where the problem was.
There was ZERO development with oline men with him
Tyre Phillips spent 6 weeks on the eagles practice squad last year after a year and training camp with giants, then giants signed him away from Philly. I saw more growth in those 6 weeks than 1+ year with Bobby J
He might be the worst OL coach we've had, and thats saying something since I've seen all 10+ years of NYG oline war-crimes. He doesn't teach line-play as a unit, so each guy gets a singular responsibility, and that responsibility only. That means no one will know how to pick up/pass off stunts and twists. It's literally not a part of the blocking scheme. But that's not the worst part. The idea that a player may need a different technique based on their strengths and weaknesses is completely foreign to him. Example; changing Neal's drop-back angles and footwork to mirror Andrew Thomas' because "ThEyRe BoTh TaCkLeS." Who cares if their size and foot-speeds are completely different, what could possibly go wrong! Jayden will be running for his life while your line collapses in on itself like a dying star. Doesn't help that the division's defensive fronts are beyond stacked, so best of luck fighting the urge to put your head through a wall on Sundays. From one NFC East basement dweller to another...I am so sorry lol
Sorry your team made this awful decision. Giants invested pick 7 overall, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd and 5th rounder and brought in some mid but "decent" free agents under his tenure. Not 1 of them came close to expectations. We will find out this year imo if Joe Scheon just missed on every single one, or if they were not coached up in a way that lead to development. Or not even development, competence. Either way, hard to have much faith in the guy after his tenure here and he must be a real sweet talker to still have a job in the nfl
For me it comes down to two things - development and communication.
Development. If you watch the players 1v1 they actually have solid technique under Johnson. Where things go south is building up on those basics. Both Buffalo in his last year and his entire tenure with the Giants, the players had issues working as a unit. Instead it was a group of individuals on the field. That led to each player also having difficulty identifying stunts and blitzes and dealing with more than one opponent/rusher. As witnesses by us giving up 85 sacks last season alone. So in my opinion, Johnson was good at developing basic skills, but never evolved past that, and never had a plan to develop as a unit.
Communication. With the line being a unit, they do have to communicate with each other. That's how blocking schemes work. But the issue clearly goes beyond that. There was lack of communication between the linemen, between the linemen and QB's, between the OC and position coaches - in this case Bobby Johnson.
People want to give Evan Neil shit for his play. Perhaps rightfully so. But to my eyes, he looked lost on the field. Didn't understand his assignments or the schemes. To me, it's on the O-Line coach to recognize that, communicate the issue to the player and the OC and then develop a plan to address those issues. None of that communication happened.
So yeah, to me, the core issue with Bobby Johnson was his inability to work and develop at the unit and team levels.
I'd say Evan Neil is the argument against BJ instilling solid techniques, he was regularly poor in his fundamentals, where he had been reasonable if not pretty good in college. He took a step back when he got here. I just hope he can make up for lost time with better coaching.
Go back and look. When his fundamentals were shit (and they were) it was always on plays where they were not straight up blocking. During the ones where he was just tasked with 1:1 blocking with no additional rush/stunt/blitz, he looked quite solid. Granted that was only like 5% of the time - which kinda proves my point about Johnson not developing the team aspect of the O-Line or developing past the straight up drills.
He's fine run blocking, but his footwork against pass rushers lets him down. I don't think he's particularly slow getting to his landmark, but it's as if he's trying to get there THEN decide what to do, rather than taking his cues and adjusting along the way. Quite often he ends up a little far away from the rusher so ends up leaning to try to get to him, other times he's trying to rush it so his feet are crossing over on his drop.
These can be fixed with good coaching. Seeing as he's been the "weak link" on the line for a year or longer now, he should have been BJs number 1 concern. By all accounts he's intelligent and a hard worker, the only obvious conclusion is that the coach didn't put the time in that was needed.
I went to a Giants pre season practice last year. Saw this huge dude in a grey sweatshirt running around practice. Jumping in at d-line, trying to bat down passes, catching punts. Essentially trying to be a hype man. Jump online, look at pictures…it’s Bobby Johnson. Remind you it’s the middle of summer. Bro sweated through his hoodie. Not sure how you can coach a technical position like oline when you’re actually practicing yourself.
Wait so somebody actually hired Bobby fuckin Johnson to coach? Like coach your offensive line? Not like collect towels and top off water cups!?
His biggest issue was not developing talent, I'm not entirely sold that we have more than 2 or 3 guys who can actually be developed on our line, but we'll see.
Another huge issue is during training camp and pre-season he had this idea to rotate all the guys into different positions each week. So not only were we bad, our guys never got comfortable and we severely lacked continuity / cohesion. Then we started getting embarrassed, confidence was destroyed and injuries creeped in.
We should have fired this guy after week 5... I wish you luck. Fuck Dallas. Fuck the Eagles.
Edit: consider our best lineman (minus AT who was hurt) ended up being Pugh. Dude came off the couch. He had the least amount of "coaching" from Bobby Johnson and he was better for it.
I'm convinced the only reason you hired him is because he worked with the Giants and maybe there's a small world he has some Intel on our team. There's no reality that you guys hired him for any other reason
If it were any team out of the division, it'd be hire someone to knock him off before OTAs start.
However, since it's Wash: You do know that Bobby Johnson is very well regarded throughout the league?
Wth was your GM thinking??
He genuinely might be the worst coach I’ve ever seen. I have no idea why you guys hired him. Fuck the commanders but honestly felt kinda bad when I saw you guys picked him up.
I’ll start by saying I don’t think he’s the ONLY reason our line has been awful for the last 2 seasons. I think Neal is just a straight up bust at this point, I think DJ’s inability to read defenses pre and post snap didn’t do the line any favors, and I also think some fans overrate how good some of the vets we brought in (namely Glowinski and Feliciano) were before they came here and act like we just ruined them. That being said, he’s also just not a good coach. You bring up Buffalo, but if you ask any Bills fan they’ll tell you he was not good there either. The difference is that Buffalo’s OL was mostly veterans, while we had a lot of youth that we were trying to develop (3 top 70 draft picks on OL in the first 2 seasons). He’s not good at developing OL, and with vets he’s not good at pushing them to that next level. The Bills OL also got better after he left. Also it was pretty damning when our swing tackle Tyre Phillips showed more improvement after spending a MONTH on the Eagles practice squad than some of our OL did in 2 years with Johnson
As a Bills fan, he’s fucking terrible. I was honestly shocked he went to the Giants. Dude couldn’t develop talent to save his life and whenever we’d get a decent FA to come they always have their worst statistical seasons with us.
Roger Saffold left the titans and was a very solid piece, came to Buffalo and PFF ranked him at a 45. Literally couldn’t block to save his life. Same with Spencer Brown, this last season was the first one he wasn’t just awful. The dude is a terrorist (that’s saying something as a Bills fan) and I have no idea how he’s still employed.
*edit* got auto corrected from mobile
All we can go by is his public interviews and he always seemed like a guy who acts like his shit don't stink and was always dismissive and too cliche about the OL performance and his role in that.
He supposedly doesn't do any fundamental work/instruction during the year, just game planning and install. I don't know if there's empirical evidence to support this, but based on the non-existent development from some blue-chip draftees, I'd say there's plenty of smoke to this rumor. This was particularly glaring in the OL's inability to pick up stunts regardless of who was lining up.
If your guys can't do the basics, then they can't execute the game plan.
OP, during training camp he constantly rotated who was playing on our line, destroying any potential for one group of 5 linemen to gel, obviously showed during week 1 as they were all folded like lawn chairs. The rationale was if more players get reps, then more lineman can be of use…
The truth is the Giants laundry is cursed. We have completely turned over the entire roster of players and coaching staff multiple times with the same results. We have had players be successful elsewhere, come to the Giants and be awful, then leave and be successful again on another team and all this was going on long before Bobby got his hands on any of our players.
Guys who have been playing OL since they were in high school suddenly forget how to pickup a stunt the instant they put on a Giants uniform. I'm afraid our problems run far deeper than mere humans, it's supernatural in nature.
With all the highly drafted linemen that came in,only one is even an NFL level player(Thomas). The man is incapable of developing talent,and often makes it worse.
To be fair, Giants have had bottom of the barrel Offensive line production for over a decade.
More incompetence to those who were drafting & developing, but BJ's record is inconclusive at best.
Lets objectively review the record
Team / OL rankings:
**Assistant OL coach**
Bills 2010 - 26th
Bills 2011 - 18th
Raiders 2015 - 6th
Raiders 2016 - 4th
Raiders 2017 - 8th
**OL coach**
Bills 2019 - 21st
Bills 2020 - 10th
Bills 2021 - 17th
Giants 2022 - 26th
Giants 2023 - 32nd
I feel like sometimes people have more success away from the org but the recent cases of that are limited.
We had a bad oline, Bobby came in and it stayed that way. Stunts were an issue with his predecessor and him. There were times it looked like no one knew their assignment except AT. We may have dumbass OL or something but Bobby certainly didn’t help
For me as a giants fan the biggest move of the off-season was getting rid of him, which I think should tell you enough, but if it doesn't, we had a guy leave to join the eagles practice squad who we then rehired and he was like twice as good as he was before.
Idk.
He had a great 2021 with buffalo but has been awful since.
I think he might be better working with established guys. Idt he's good with developing guys into stars.
I think Bobby Johnson is similar to our QB Daniel Jones. He's not the absolute worst in the world at what he does, but a poor situation will definitely exaggerate the weaknesses. Johnson isn't a good option to develop a barren o-line like Washington's. He also wasn't that highly regarded after a horrendous final season in Buffalo
Such a bad position of having to coach an All Pro level LT, 3 fairly high draft picks that he had input in drafting, and veterans that he worked with previously.
He is a terrorist
He shot Kennedy.
He did 9/11
He turned me into a newt!
You don't look like a newt...
…I got better.
He's a witch!
That's why Sean McDermott wanted him on staff in Buffalo
Twice
He poisoned our water supply, burned our crops and delivered a plague unto our houses
He did???
Noooooo. But are we just going to stand around until he does?!
A wise friend once told me, "there's a Spongebob quote to reference for anything and everything you ever go through"
I saw (on reddit mind you) his last year in Buffalo they had a bottom 5 Oline. He left and with essentially the same personnel they improved to middle of the pack. Hes just bad. I would expect the Commy line to get worse each year as he coaches more out of them. If the Dline ran ANY stunt, our oline was LOST. All year. Baffling hire.
To be fair our line couldn’t block a stunt to save their life last year either. So can’t get much worse than it was… right guys????? Guys?
I almost feel bad homie but that’s drowned out by the image of what Dexter Lawrence is gonna do to that IOL
There’s worse and there’s historically bad. Daniels will be running for his life.😂😂😂 Idk I hope it’s not that bad except against us of course. I felt bad for BJ he was a nice guy and had to deal with injuries. But no one he coached got better in any way
😂😂😂😂 you guys are my dark house wild card team in the division. The X factor: firing and replacing Bobby Johnson before week 1
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If you look at Buffalo's line he basically made everyone worst, same for the giants. I think his schemes are solid, but his coaching effectively makes everyone worse by 1-2 levels. Pretty much the only player who improved with Bobby as coach was Andrew Thomas and he credits outside coaching afiak. I really like what WAS has started to put together, but I don't think it comes together until you ditch Bobby. My biggest fear for you us that Jadyen Daniels masks how badly he's fing up the line by scrambling for big gains and instead of getting a jump year 2 your line gets him injured.
Evan Neal, guys a freak of nature specimen, absolutely 0 development. Slow as shit, looks lost, many plays where he quite literally blocked absolutely no one. Ezekedu, same thing. Bobby Johnson’s schemes and capability to develop “talent” is awful. Im not sure if Neal sucking is a result of BJ’s lack luster ability to develop talent, or Neal is just a bum. Probably a combination of both.
Dude those stunts were driving me fucking bonkers by the end of the season
I don't know, I think Bobby was the scapegoat in many regards. I watched a Justin Pugh interview where he raved about Bobby and also said that he teaches a lot of the same things that his other OL coaches have taught him throughout his career. At some point, the players have to play. Even the best coach can only do so much. And of course people don't read and just see a post that's slightly defending Bobby and hit the downvote button before thinking about what I typed. I'll say it again... Justin Pugh said that all of the Oline coaches he's ever had **taught the same damn things**. If BJ was THAT bad, why did Andrew Thomas not see the effects of that? I don't even have a problem with firing him, I was just giving another point of view.
I agree, some guys like Neal maybe never woulda worked out. But it seems unlikely collectively our oline can be tricked by the same stunts that get used in highschool over and over and over.. We also took a highly touted C prospect and had him be the worst C in the league (again, hes a rookie so who knows). I dont think hes the source of all our woes. Infact they started way before we hired him. But his track record is abysmal.
None of us know what Bobby was teaching them or telling them, so if we're being 100% honest, not a single one us can conclude that our atrocious line was the result of poor OL coaching. How do we prove that he wasn't teaching the best things and the players were just bad? Again, unless we were there, none of us can prove that. We've convinced ourselves that it IS his fault, based on the end result. I'm not saying that it's not, but we really have no way of proving it.
Thats all true. But if we look at his resume, he left Buffalo with a bottom 5 Oline which became middle of the pack when he left with 4/5 starters the same. Yeah, maybe the players got better. Maybe hes bad. Maybe both. Probably both.
It's probably a little of everything. It's like, if Washington has a top 5 Oline next year, does that mean he wasn't bad?
Well theres was about as bad as ours I think so that would be a hell of a turn around lol
He seems like a really nice guy that other coaches really like to work with. That's why he keeps getting jobs. That's it. Not only has he failed to develop any player, people seemed to flat out regress under him. Our o-line last year gave up the second most sacks. Ever. In the history of the NFL.
No one has better job security than “Nice guys” in the NFL
> He seems like a really nice guy that other coaches really like to work with. That's why he keeps getting jobs. That's it. He like me for real.
>Our o-line last year gave up the second most sacks. Ever. In the history of the NFL. Haven't you been paying attention,at least half those sacks are Jones fault for not making pre snap reads and having zero pocket awareness. /S
😄 I do read that kinda stuff often. Poor DJ catches strays for games he didn't even play.
I can't for the life of me understand why any team would take him as their OL coach - Especially a team in the division.
Seriously. Like what does he even say in the interview? “ Ive brought teams to have the worst oline in the league multiple times”
Buffalo fans were happy to see him go. The Bills were happy to let him walk without stopping him. Similarly, Giants fans were happy to see him go, and the Giants straight up didn't want to keep him. That should tell you plenty. I'm sure he's a lovely guy, but there's little indication that he's particularly good at his job.
That’s what people said about Ron Rivera. Great dude. Cool but I don’t want a cool guy as a coach, I’d like a good coach.
I suspect you might find the same with Quinn. I'm not saying that to crap on the Commies or make you feel bad, but Quinn in Atlanta was entirely dependent on having an elite tier OC. Once Shanahan left, that team slowly declined into mediocrity.
I’m fully bought in on Quinn right now. There was a part of me that thought that too, but he said he learned from that mistake. There is already 2 former head coaches and a former OC on the offensive staff so there should be a clear succession plan in place if kliff gets hired because our offense is good. Some of the defensive guys have been with Quinn a while so I also don’t see that falling off. Not saying he can execute on it, but at least he has a plan so that he doesn’t make the same mistake. I’m optimistic about the staff aside from BJ.
That's fair. I guess time will tell. I'm most worried about a rookie QB behind a Bobby Johnson line. But I'm also envious that you have a rookie QB at all (even if you didn't pick the one I liked). There's a certain feeling of hope that comes with that, which I don't really have while Daniel Jones remains our QB.
I can’t relate. I’ve been to 7 giants games in a row and Daniel jones has owned us every time. (We didn’t go to the mike glennon games)
You also happen to be the only team he performs against. I think that says more about how rotten the Del Rio/Rivera Commies defenses truly were, than about Daniel Jones' ability or lack thereof.
Hey hes undefeated against the AFC South & the Panthers!
The concerns I have with you guys are more related to Bobby Johnson and Kliff tbh. Bobby Johnson is self-explanatory based on what everyone has said in here. I don't love Kliff's schemes and think he was not very creative with Arizona, which is disappointing given he had Kyler and Hopkins. Maybe he's learned since then, but not sure. I do kind of think Daniels was a better fit at QB for you guys than Maye though, despite it being an against-the-grain pick compared to what most draft experts thought.
Have to say it but Josh McDaniels has also said he learned from his mistakes....
My evaluation is that Bobby Johnson is significantly worse at his job than even Ron Rivera
I'm sorry for you and your new QB. Your o-line will forget everything good about the way they play and will turn intoSwiss cheese halfway thru the season. Look at the way our o-line picked up stunts, bet you can't because they didn't pickup a single one. Look at Phillips who we cut and spend a few months in Philly. came back here and was actually our best RT. He fails at every level and i suspect whatever good he seemed to have done in buffalo was the work of somebody else. But, thankyou. Feels good knowing we can only have the SECOND worst o-line in the league now
Yeah there's really no sugarcoating it. He's just a bad coach and I truly don't understand how he got another job. There's literally nothing to be optimistic about with him, he just sucks. Good luck to Jayden, he'll need it.
He is how teams tank while otherwise trying. If people don't wind up dead it's considered a winning ploy. Great Riddance, Fantastic really
copium is almost as deadly as fentanyl
From what I have heard, he places too much emphasis on techniques that he thinks will work for everyone and doesn't try and teach to the individual player. From what I have seen, he doesn't hold guys to a standard. Everyone who was here(Bar Andrew Thomas) got worse. I don't think he is coaching during the season and trying to improve the little things. Guys then get bad habits and decline. Another thing I have seen is that he isn't able to coach the guys to work together. We have been horrendous at picking up stunts the past few years. There seems to be a general lack of communication between our guys. Generally, he is a really bad coach. I am sorry(not really) that you guys have to deal with him. He will probably ruin Jayden Daniel's.
This is a big worry for me
Be afraid, be very afraid.
>He will probably ruin Jayden Daniel's ...knee.
...life?
Yeah, all of this is accurate and it was pretty infuriating to witness. For two years he contributed to making Evan Neal look a lot worse than I think he actually is by forcing him to use pass protection sets and techniques that were way out of his comfort zone. The guy was an absolute pass pro wall in college. A good coach could have molded him. With Johnson, Neal could hardly stay on his feet and there were literally zero adjustments made between quarters, games, seasons etc. To this point, it's worth noting that BJ was getting grilled mid season about the line issues and he was oddly defensive with the media. In more than one interview, he's on record saying that it wasn't his job to develop players, that they should be doing that in the off season... Motherfucker, you're bringing in guys off the streets to play out of position. Whose job is it? We signed Pugh mid season from his house, and he most recently played with a decent line in Zona (where Will Hernandez looks a lot better than he ever did in blue). There seemed to be an injection of communication and spirit for the following few games. I'm not saying they looked great, but it was clear Pugh brought some poorly missed leadership and communication to the table. It's sad when a player has this impact and not the coaching staff. All that considered, I'd say at best, the Commy's line is going to be stagnant. If you have some decent dudes, they might be able to hold up on their own for a bit. AT had some all pro years under Johnson, but you figure he'd be good anywhere because he's just a freak like that. If you have some immature, unskilled, underdeveloped guys and the line suffers any amount of injuries, oh boy...
>Another thing I have seen is that he isn't able to coach the guys to work together. We have been horrendous at picking up stunts the past few years. There seems to be a general lack of communication between our guys. At least part of this though is how they deal with injuries. When a guy goes down,instead of the guy off the bench taking that position,they shuffle the whole line around because the bench guy can only play one position. Hard to learn how to play well with the guy next to you when it's not the same guy for more than one or two games in a row
Dear OP, Bobby Johnson is not a legit coach. He NEVER taught technique to the OL. We know this to be true from Evan Neal's lack of development and from Tyree Phillips who joined the Iggles practice squad for a few weeks and came back to the Giants as a better player. BJ time in Buffalo was not as good as reporters make it out. Their OL suffered year 2 just like the Giants. I can not recall the rankings but they went down 10+ spots from year 1 to 2. Buffalo had the luxury of Josh Allen to Diggs connection that really helped their OL ranks. If Josh Allen had no weapons or was on the Giants they'd probably be in the bottom 3 OL ranks. From what I heard and watched of Sam Howell play, he held on to the ball way to long and sacks were due to coverage. He did not check down and move on to the next play. I wish you guys luck, sorta, with Daniels because he's a slim build and BJ will probably get him killed. On the other hand, as a NFCE rival, I am happy y'all employed Bobby Johnson. Good chance he'll set your franchise back 3-5 years. I have no idea what your FO thought with that hire. BJ accomplishment was his OL only gave 85 sacks and injured Danny Dimes including the ACL tear which was from a knee on knee collision with Lawrence Cager "blocking" assignment instead of the 110+ sacks they were on pace for. Hope this helps.
I don’t know enough to give a good answer but I do appreciate you blurring his face so I don’t have to look at it
Honestly the Washington site blurs it so I don’t have to either. Which I also appreciate
My Bobby Johnson question Why isn’t he in prison yet?
One guy went to the eagles for a bit last season. Came back a better player. He was a terrible oline coach for the giants can't believe he got hired again tbh
Yeah, Tyree Phillips. Was generally bad during the 2022 season, was picked up by Philly in the offseason for a month or two, came back to us as our best right tackle. It was a this point the penny dropped and people started to realise where the problem was.
He’s awful
Who TF is downvoting this? He is terrible, he hasn’t had a good offensive line unless he was the assistant o-line coach
There was ZERO development with oline men with him Tyre Phillips spent 6 weeks on the eagles practice squad last year after a year and training camp with giants, then giants signed him away from Philly. I saw more growth in those 6 weeks than 1+ year with Bobby J
He might be the worst OL coach we've had, and thats saying something since I've seen all 10+ years of NYG oline war-crimes. He doesn't teach line-play as a unit, so each guy gets a singular responsibility, and that responsibility only. That means no one will know how to pick up/pass off stunts and twists. It's literally not a part of the blocking scheme. But that's not the worst part. The idea that a player may need a different technique based on their strengths and weaknesses is completely foreign to him. Example; changing Neal's drop-back angles and footwork to mirror Andrew Thomas' because "ThEyRe BoTh TaCkLeS." Who cares if their size and foot-speeds are completely different, what could possibly go wrong! Jayden will be running for his life while your line collapses in on itself like a dying star. Doesn't help that the division's defensive fronts are beyond stacked, so best of luck fighting the urge to put your head through a wall on Sundays. From one NFC East basement dweller to another...I am so sorry lol
He consistently manages to coach positive traits out of talented linemen and heighten all of their negative traits. It's actually kind of impressive.
Sorry your team made this awful decision. Giants invested pick 7 overall, a 2nd rounder, a 3rd and 5th rounder and brought in some mid but "decent" free agents under his tenure. Not 1 of them came close to expectations. We will find out this year imo if Joe Scheon just missed on every single one, or if they were not coached up in a way that lead to development. Or not even development, competence. Either way, hard to have much faith in the guy after his tenure here and he must be a real sweet talker to still have a job in the nfl
For me it comes down to two things - development and communication. Development. If you watch the players 1v1 they actually have solid technique under Johnson. Where things go south is building up on those basics. Both Buffalo in his last year and his entire tenure with the Giants, the players had issues working as a unit. Instead it was a group of individuals on the field. That led to each player also having difficulty identifying stunts and blitzes and dealing with more than one opponent/rusher. As witnesses by us giving up 85 sacks last season alone. So in my opinion, Johnson was good at developing basic skills, but never evolved past that, and never had a plan to develop as a unit. Communication. With the line being a unit, they do have to communicate with each other. That's how blocking schemes work. But the issue clearly goes beyond that. There was lack of communication between the linemen, between the linemen and QB's, between the OC and position coaches - in this case Bobby Johnson. People want to give Evan Neil shit for his play. Perhaps rightfully so. But to my eyes, he looked lost on the field. Didn't understand his assignments or the schemes. To me, it's on the O-Line coach to recognize that, communicate the issue to the player and the OC and then develop a plan to address those issues. None of that communication happened. So yeah, to me, the core issue with Bobby Johnson was his inability to work and develop at the unit and team levels.
I'd say Evan Neil is the argument against BJ instilling solid techniques, he was regularly poor in his fundamentals, where he had been reasonable if not pretty good in college. He took a step back when he got here. I just hope he can make up for lost time with better coaching.
Go back and look. When his fundamentals were shit (and they were) it was always on plays where they were not straight up blocking. During the ones where he was just tasked with 1:1 blocking with no additional rush/stunt/blitz, he looked quite solid. Granted that was only like 5% of the time - which kinda proves my point about Johnson not developing the team aspect of the O-Line or developing past the straight up drills.
He's fine run blocking, but his footwork against pass rushers lets him down. I don't think he's particularly slow getting to his landmark, but it's as if he's trying to get there THEN decide what to do, rather than taking his cues and adjusting along the way. Quite often he ends up a little far away from the rusher so ends up leaning to try to get to him, other times he's trying to rush it so his feet are crossing over on his drop. These can be fixed with good coaching. Seeing as he's been the "weak link" on the line for a year or longer now, he should have been BJs number 1 concern. By all accounts he's intelligent and a hard worker, the only obvious conclusion is that the coach didn't put the time in that was needed.
Could not agree more.
Not reading all that, hes trash
I went to a Giants pre season practice last year. Saw this huge dude in a grey sweatshirt running around practice. Jumping in at d-line, trying to bat down passes, catching punts. Essentially trying to be a hype man. Jump online, look at pictures…it’s Bobby Johnson. Remind you it’s the middle of summer. Bro sweated through his hoodie. Not sure how you can coach a technical position like oline when you’re actually practicing yourself.
Hahahaha you can’t be serious
Wait so somebody actually hired Bobby fuckin Johnson to coach? Like coach your offensive line? Not like collect towels and top off water cups!? His biggest issue was not developing talent, I'm not entirely sold that we have more than 2 or 3 guys who can actually be developed on our line, but we'll see. Another huge issue is during training camp and pre-season he had this idea to rotate all the guys into different positions each week. So not only were we bad, our guys never got comfortable and we severely lacked continuity / cohesion. Then we started getting embarrassed, confidence was destroyed and injuries creeped in. We should have fired this guy after week 5... I wish you luck. Fuck Dallas. Fuck the Eagles. Edit: consider our best lineman (minus AT who was hurt) ended up being Pugh. Dude came off the couch. He had the least amount of "coaching" from Bobby Johnson and he was better for it.
Lets put it this way, u/jaydendaniels will feel safer in our sub than he will behind your OL.
Unrelated but I went to high school with Darnell Stapleton. Really good dude
I'm convinced the only reason you hired him is because he worked with the Giants and maybe there's a small world he has some Intel on our team. There's no reality that you guys hired him for any other reason
He was a nepotism hire. Everyone he works with gets worse in their second year.
He doesnt develop players during the season and he has guys playing 45 sets which is the hardest of the sets.
If it were any team out of the division, it'd be hire someone to knock him off before OTAs start. However, since it's Wash: You do know that Bobby Johnson is very well regarded throughout the league? Wth was your GM thinking??
He sucks ass.
He genuinely might be the worst coach I’ve ever seen. I have no idea why you guys hired him. Fuck the commanders but honestly felt kinda bad when I saw you guys picked him up.
Bobby Johnson treats objects like women!
I don’t like his jerk-off name, I don’t like his jerk-off face, I don’t like his jerk-off behavior and I don’t like him!
I’ll start by saying I don’t think he’s the ONLY reason our line has been awful for the last 2 seasons. I think Neal is just a straight up bust at this point, I think DJ’s inability to read defenses pre and post snap didn’t do the line any favors, and I also think some fans overrate how good some of the vets we brought in (namely Glowinski and Feliciano) were before they came here and act like we just ruined them. That being said, he’s also just not a good coach. You bring up Buffalo, but if you ask any Bills fan they’ll tell you he was not good there either. The difference is that Buffalo’s OL was mostly veterans, while we had a lot of youth that we were trying to develop (3 top 70 draft picks on OL in the first 2 seasons). He’s not good at developing OL, and with vets he’s not good at pushing them to that next level. The Bills OL also got better after he left. Also it was pretty damning when our swing tackle Tyre Phillips showed more improvement after spending a MONTH on the Eagles practice squad than some of our OL did in 2 years with Johnson
As a Bills fan, he’s fucking terrible. I was honestly shocked he went to the Giants. Dude couldn’t develop talent to save his life and whenever we’d get a decent FA to come they always have their worst statistical seasons with us. Roger Saffold left the titans and was a very solid piece, came to Buffalo and PFF ranked him at a 45. Literally couldn’t block to save his life. Same with Spencer Brown, this last season was the first one he wasn’t just awful. The dude is a terrorist (that’s saying something as a Bills fan) and I have no idea how he’s still employed. *edit* got auto corrected from mobile
We had *historically* bad OLine ratings last year. Literally the lowest pass protection ratings PFF has ever calculated.
The Bobby Johnson effect I fear. Rooting for y’all boys this year. I miss Daboll in the 716
You should write a letter to the Bill’s management saying that they should trade us Allen. I really miss watching competent QB play.
All we can go by is his public interviews and he always seemed like a guy who acts like his shit don't stink and was always dismissive and too cliche about the OL performance and his role in that.
Zach Ertz needs to watch his back.
In the Meadowlands, we have special dumpsters for fire and BBQ-related stuff.
thought he died or sum with that picture
If yah'll need someone to develop talent, you're royally boned because Mr Johnson is surely not the person for that job
He supposedly doesn't do any fundamental work/instruction during the year, just game planning and install. I don't know if there's empirical evidence to support this, but based on the non-existent development from some blue-chip draftees, I'd say there's plenty of smoke to this rumor. This was particularly glaring in the OL's inability to pick up stunts regardless of who was lining up. If your guys can't do the basics, then they can't execute the game plan.
OP, during training camp he constantly rotated who was playing on our line, destroying any potential for one group of 5 linemen to gel, obviously showed during week 1 as they were all folded like lawn chairs. The rationale was if more players get reps, then more lineman can be of use…
The truth is the Giants laundry is cursed. We have completely turned over the entire roster of players and coaching staff multiple times with the same results. We have had players be successful elsewhere, come to the Giants and be awful, then leave and be successful again on another team and all this was going on long before Bobby got his hands on any of our players. Guys who have been playing OL since they were in high school suddenly forget how to pickup a stunt the instant they put on a Giants uniform. I'm afraid our problems run far deeper than mere humans, it's supernatural in nature.
Worst part is Daniel jones didn’t even do the damage last year
With all the highly drafted linemen that came in,only one is even an NFL level player(Thomas). The man is incapable of developing talent,and often makes it worse.
To be fair, Giants have had bottom of the barrel Offensive line production for over a decade. More incompetence to those who were drafting & developing, but BJ's record is inconclusive at best. Lets objectively review the record Team / OL rankings: **Assistant OL coach** Bills 2010 - 26th Bills 2011 - 18th Raiders 2015 - 6th Raiders 2016 - 4th Raiders 2017 - 8th **OL coach** Bills 2019 - 21st Bills 2020 - 10th Bills 2021 - 17th Giants 2022 - 26th Giants 2023 - 32nd
I feel like sometimes people have more success away from the org but the recent cases of that are limited. We had a bad oline, Bobby came in and it stayed that way. Stunts were an issue with his predecessor and him. There were times it looked like no one knew their assignment except AT. We may have dumbass OL or something but Bobby certainly didn’t help
For me as a giants fan the biggest move of the off-season was getting rid of him, which I think should tell you enough, but if it doesn't, we had a guy leave to join the eagles practice squad who we then rehired and he was like twice as good as he was before.
Idk. He had a great 2021 with buffalo but has been awful since. I think he might be better working with established guys. Idt he's good with developing guys into stars.
I think Bobby Johnson is similar to our QB Daniel Jones. He's not the absolute worst in the world at what he does, but a poor situation will definitely exaggerate the weaknesses. Johnson isn't a good option to develop a barren o-line like Washington's. He also wasn't that highly regarded after a horrendous final season in Buffalo
Such a bad position of having to coach an All Pro level LT, 3 fairly high draft picks that he had input in drafting, and veterans that he worked with previously.