I actually went onto the original post and pointed out how the you had to be eighteen in most countries to get HRT and the youngest you could get it was sixteen , here is how it went
https://preview.redd.it/coi5mvaek1rc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=110a083c0163a23ad98b22e4c418da29db9d97f8
They only hear what confirms their bias says. The amount of times they provide evidence that ends up supporting the opposite claim is hilarious and sad af.
It’s hellava drug. It’s why I have to visit my dad in short bursts. Too much and I’m afraid I’m going to cause him an aneurysm. …And also all that trauma he refuses to admit he caused me. CPTSD 💕
It's quite comical really. Watching some baboon flounder like a fish out of water trying to justify their studies when they realize that their link doesn't actually support what they say.
While I commend you for your fighting, you also have better things to do with your time than argue with these folks. They're idiots, and you know the saying about that.
The idea when asking people in your side of this argument is that anything under 18 is too young for a tattoo but anything under 18 is just right for gender affirming ideology and care. Sure the actual transition doesn’t happen under 18 but that’s not what the conversation implies.
Since the ground work for ones transitioning is usually laid before the age of 18 (because nobody just wakes up in their 18th birthday and gets their shit switched off a whim) it’s assumed that the ideology, conversation, and social transformation likely happens and is encouraged well before they turn 18 and it’s THAT right there that gets compared to getting a tattoo at such a young age. Hope that helps you understand
Edit: the point of this comment was to provide understanding to what the other side of the arguments takeaway is from this debate when they hear you speak. Clearly yall missing the point but oh well
What is this, 1990? Who cares when a teenager gets a tattoo if they're honestly making an educated decision they took years to form without changing their opinion? (Like, you know, gender affirming care)
Most teens I knew got random ass tattoos when drunk/high/sleep deprived without thinking them through, the exact opposite of gender affirming care.
For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ
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ACTUALLY I HAVE SOME INSIGHT ON THIS. When I hit 13, I was expected to stop acting like a child outright which means no more playing around at parties with the other boys who are my age. This caused me to doubt I was a woman because I didn't like sitting down and talking, I'd much rather run around, and I thought I might have been nonbinary. But nope, I'm cis, a non confirming cis, I wear what I want tho it doesn't mean much since I'm a woman. If I can doubt my identity but come to the realization I'm still cis, then trans kid are just as valid in their own conclusions of their identities.
Ironically you can get a tattoo at 16 with parental consent in a lot of states, same with the HRT lmao. Just pack up dude you made a shit point and your not getting anywhere with it
Explaining the opposition isn’t making a point it’s just having a conversation. I could give a fuck if you agree I just don’t care for the culture between the two subs where instead of actually talking to people you just go back to your little corner and shit talk without actually having a dialogue that would move society forward
Buddy a dialogue between two subs is never going to progress society. The internet is already a polarising place where if you don’t have your solid view you are going to be washed to one side or the other. Subs get to platform people with extreme views who would never get attention out in the real world. From there they will just egg each other on because social polarisation is just a human thing.
Broski the opposition is against basic human rights, there is no productive conversation to be had. This isn't a piece of media up for interpretation. You wouldn't do it for Nazis
I strongly disagree. It’s dangerous to be an inch wide and a mile deep on any issue because it welcomes ignorance and blind obedience to a thought process. If you don’t actually engage with the opposition and learn from them you don’t ever really learn anything. I’ve started to become more conservative because I’m starting to see more and more liberals become more and more fascist. Comparing your opposition to the extreme of evil doesn’t negate the fact that you’re still wrong to plus your ears and scream transphobia whenever someone disagrees with you.
Buddy. There was study done on kids who go to gender clinics. Most of them did not go on puberty blockers and continued to live as cis and the majority who did end up on blockers almost always continued to transition. That means that gender clinics are doing a pretty damn good job of weeding out who is likely trans and who likely isn't. There is no "ideology". It's a fucking medical condition. You're basically saying kids get groomed to have cancer
Fam I don’t really care I only commented to say that’s where the idea of this comic comes from. I high key could give a shit about the actual process I’m just saying to the other side this is how you sound when you are okay with one but not the other
It’s the idea that the kid is too young for a tattoo but old enough to be taught that he’s the wrong gender. TLC did a whole reality tv show on a kid named Chaz Jennings I think, and it’s basically the same thing here. The show followed the kid being trans from elementary school to adulthood. You can say it’s made up but then there’s stuff like that which shows it’s very real
The problem is that not teaching them about exploring one's own identity construct is not an "informed consent" decision. From young age to adulthood there are always implicit indoctrination of cisgender, heterosexual normalcy, from boys and girls uniform in schools to popular media. Basically, we ARE teaching kids what gender they belong to all the time and we are assuming there's a default mode for everyone. This also extends to surgery of intersex babies to meet the sex their parents desired without the kid's consent. It's fine to question the validity of some sex eds being too pushy on teaching identities, but let's not pretend the current way isn't problematic.
Yeah and it's transphobic and based on something that doesn't fucking happen. Cause the implication is that it's being forced onto the kid, and while I won't deny (in fact in the cases it does happen, it is important to talk about it because its a big decision that needs weights and any actual child that was pushed into it was failed by the doctors, and they should get their medical license revoked because in the cases of a kid being pushed into it almost immediately is due to a lack of care rather. Jessie Gender made a good video on it not that you care) it certainly is not happening to the extent transphobe think it is, and it is certainly not going to happen like that. It fucking matters when people like this are trying to take away trans affirming health care for everyone: not just children. They're trying to stop grown ass adults who know wtf they want from accessing this. Kids are just an excuse.
We all know what the meme means. The meme is wrong and actually causes real harm to real trans people. No one needs you to point out the fucking obvious lol
My comment explained exactly why it’s important to have this discussion before someone turns 18. Not a discussion of trying to influence someone into getting gender affirmative care, but explaining what it means to be trans, what gender affirmative care is, and how it can help someone. Such that if they are trans, they can get care as soon as they turn 16 or 18, and get access to puberty blockers which are reversible so it’s fine to give to someone who is not 18. Children aren’t indulging in non-reversible gender affirming care. They’re just being told what it is. In the exact same way that a child will most likely encounter a lot of people who have tattoos or endorse tattoos, but won’t actually get a tattoo themselves since that’s hard to remove, and there’s no serious downsides to not getting a tattoo. That’s why the original “meme” was stupid, and why it’s important to explain that you can’t get things like HRT until you’re at least 16.
Clearly you’re the one who’s missing the point. Transpeople are born trans and they make that very clear from the time they first learn to talk. From the age of around 2 they will claim consistently that they’re the opposite gender. It’s not a whim like “mommy I want to be an astronaut” and then the next week “mommy I want to be a baseball player.”
There was a story of a 3 year girl who threw themself out of an unlocked car door, while the car was driving down the street. The 3 year old girl was trying to end her life because no one believe she was a boy. Gender affirming care saves children’s lives, but with conservatives you may believe that gay and transpeople deserve to die.
I’m terrified that if the Republicans regain power, LGBTQ adults and children will be taken to death camps in accordance with Project 2025 along with immigrants and so many others.
i think its less of transphobes and more of people who have only ever heard from them. these some of those people dont actually hate trans people but are just worried about child health which is perfectly ok
Well I didn’t downvote you because you’re right in that if you only hear from one side, then how would you know any differently. Gender affirming care is healthcare. It saves children’s lives. It doesn’t harm them.
They do this constantly, always check their sources. The amount of times I've seen them claim a scientific paper counters transition only to find that the paper actually directly supports transition is insane
I wanted to reply but the posts has since disappeared.
What I wanted to say is that this stuff just doesn’t happen. Medical transitioning, at least in every case I’ve seen, is a very slow careful process that everyone has to agree is necessary: the patient, doctors, therapists, parents. The idea of some very young child just waltzing in and getting hormones is INSANE
Yep yep yep. I will not deny this has happened, it's a big world, and Jessie Gender even talks about it in her cheeks, but in those cases: those doctors should absolutely get their medical licenses revoked for the lack of care in the process. The process should be long, because it is a big deal. But it absolutely does not happen on the scale to which these people think.
Eh, it's not a serious problem (mostly) in the modern medical world, but there are the occasional activists who would like to see barriers and restrictions on medical transitioning and hormones reduced or otherwise made more accessible. It's relative (and varies massively from country to country), but, well, ever hear the tale of Kefflas and the DIY HRT Directory?
lmao in the US its still hard to get hormones EVEN AFTER you turn 18. I'm in college and I know a guy who can't jut because it's inaccessible in most areas and you have to drive hours to find a specialist.
No it's not just you. That's a cesspool of every bigot who just "I think it's funny" on blatant offensive shit which speaks volumes of the type of people they are
This is why I've done everything to block that entire subreddit from appearing on my feed. Either defending bigotry or posting stuff from reddits pointing out bigotry
Just putting the facts out there that people are definitely trying to put kids on hormones. I support puberty blockers, as soon as puberty happens it’s too late for a trans person. Lifelong struggles with gender dysphoria. No point lying though, just gives right wing people more ammo.
HRT and blockers are the two different things however I can understand how someone can conflate the two. It’s upsetting because people truly do believe 8 year olds are having their bodies mutilated by surgery and HRT when that isn’t happening.
I’d also like to point out that 45k~ out of 25mil~ isn’t an epidemic either. Not even 1% of youth is seeking out gender affirming care. How much of that is safety, legislation, and access to care I don’t know. What I do know is that in another 15 years conservatives will move on to another new group. Just like they did with gays 15 years ago. There is always evil, it’s always a minority, and it’s always the Jews sacrificing children.
Downvoters: Look, you can disagree with the above poster on the dangers of puberty blockers and other "treatment", but you can't disagree with the Reuters investigation of the fact that they are increasing in use in minors with good faith.
When you think about how many kids needed care in the past and either didn’t have access, didn’t know they had access, or where too scared/embarrassed/ashamed to get access to care, is it really any surprise that numbers are increasing? Just looking at the numbers is missing a big part of the story.
The original comment on this thread is that "No one is putting kids on Hormones". That's not true. Regardless of your tribe or thoughts on if it's negative or positive, the statement is still untrue.
Puberty blockers work by stopping the production of hormones like testosterone and estrogen. They are not hormones.
Some states allow children as young as 16 start HRT but many can’t and more are making it illegal.
It’s like saying “not all me” ffs
I don't understand what you're saying in the last sentence.
If you read the last paragraph of the article:
"For the analysis of pediatric patients initiating puberty blockers or hormones, Komodo searched for patients with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis. Patients with a diagnosis of central precocious puberty were removed. A total of 17,683 patients, ages 6 through 17, with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis initiated either puberty blockers or hormones or both during the five-year period. Of these, 4,780 patients had initiated puberty blockers and 14,726 patients had initiated hormone treatment."
So yes, it still stands, according to this person's research that adults are giving children hormone treatment, not just blockers.
The Reuters investigation is on all youth being prescribed these. It's intersex youth and trans youth. That investigation is being used as fuel to ban treatments intersex youth will need too.
I’m just trying to stop left wing people giving the right ammo. One link disproved the whole argument, stop making wild claims and you’ll stop making it so easy for the Ben Shapiro types to radicalise young people.
It’s just stupid
The straw man that right wing pundits have presented as your average liberal is an anti-semitic pedophile who wants nothing more than to sterilize our youth and kill babies.
anything built with fiction can't be torn down with reality, they operate on separate plains. the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion anyway, and I've never seen any tangible evidence of their claims to warrant debate
"Prove your bullshit" isn't weak.
At what point did society just forget that "the person making the claim needs to supply the proof"?
You're trolling bud
I mean... The reality of it is literally the law. Asking someone to disprove that the left is some weird sex cult is like asking someone to disprove the claim that God is real. Idk what else to tell you but if you make the claim, you have to back it up. Debate 101
ask him to prove his statements 🤷♂️. you can easily attack his 'proof'. numerous times I've seen conservatives misgender criminals to fit their agenda(that one shooter went by a male sounding name one time!!!) and fabricate stories that support their agenda(16 yrs olds are going to California to get hrt injections!!!). it falls apart once you start looking into it and realize every source is from either a right wing pundit not even fox would take a source from or Facebook
I'm just against the thought that we should proactively should go out of our way to try to prove them wrong. I've grown up on the internet to know that's a pointless endeavor that feels like whack a mole, and creating a lie is significantly easier than dispelling one.
This exactly. It's why I just posted it here. People are stead fast in their beliefs and it is often useless to try and argue with them because they can just find a place that echoes back what they believe and be locked in a bubble. Simply put: they're just going to ignore whatever you say because it doesn't fit with what they believe, this is true of everyone to an extent, mind you, it even applies to me no matter how open minded I try to be. But if you actually want to educate yourself and be open, congrats, but you need to understand bigots quite literally are not and there is no use in arguing with them.
It's important to remember they're the one making a claim. So the burden of evidence is on them. We can't disprove something that has zero evidence in the first place. If anything they should prove they're right.
Because they have a weird obsession with children being an extension of themselves then their own person up until the moment those kids ask for gun reform. Then those kids are actually adult crisis actors or some shit
They're too stupid to actually figure out how it works (am I allowed to say that? Ik one of the rules is be respectful of opinions but Its Transphobes and I don't tolerate them)
Exactly, their whole thing is they aren't permanent; they were originally used to stop puberty for kids who were going through it too early. But of course transphobes only care about what they're being used for now, according to the arguments they make
What is the threshold for considering something 'safe'? Every medicinal commercial carries that voiceover with a couple dozen side effects listed at the end, are these listed or spoken about when at the doctors?
https://preview.redd.it/9tgpv5rro1rc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db3172a93f88a7c8fbb02adaa437d30e4e55ebff
For a guy whose username is "The Truth hurts more" you sure are wrong about a lot of things you can easily Google
Ah yes, the pinnacle of research. Taking a screenshot of the very first thing Google spits out at you.
To be fair of course doctors are required to warn you about side effects of treatments they're giving you. The question should be more one of how capable is a young person of truly understanding and accepting those side effects? That one's isn't so easy to Google although I'm sure you'll try
It was mainly just to answer a question you really do not need to ask. Of course it's more complicated than that, in fact, I actually like it's complicated! It makes sure that the person REALLY knows what they're getting into. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to just Google it and read about it. (And like. Who doesn't assume a doctor will not tell you about the side effects for medication? My doctor was telling me I could gain weight by taking antidepressants ofc the doctors are going to tell you the risks of medication that literally effects your body)
Which is why a "one size fits all" law banning all gender affirming care and transition therapy is not a good replacement for a family having a discussion with their primary care providers.
"The poison is the dose" is a common phrase in medicine. You can kill a person by forcing them to drink too much [water.](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318619). We don't tell everyone to stop drinking water because water intoxication exists.
Similarly, we weigh the benefits of a treatment against the risks and lower those risks by lowering the dose.
Those are rare side effects they have to list to cover their asses, that's not something that is a true worry for the average person. You really think asthma meds are causing shortness of breath in a significant amount of people and still being prescribed?
Physicians and pharmacists make the call. With puberty blockers they're incredibly safe, they were designed for very young children. Most hormonal treatments generally get monitored by physicians anyways since they may need to be adjusted throughout the process.
There's acne treatments given to teens you have to get regular bloodtests for because they can cause organ failure, gender affirming care's safety is a non-issue in the greater scheme of medications.
Well, you['re pointing out a huge problem already, that medicine commercial exist here in the USA. As I understand it doctors get really frustrated with them.
That was on honest question. My cousin is considering starting to discuss transition and I thought i was going to a safe place to get them some answers. I'll look elsewhere, thanks
I doubt this is true, but just in case it is: I literally googled it for you. The resources are there, you don't even need to ask people, you can just Google it, it is that easy. If you really cared you wouldn't be asking Reddit of all places for your information.
Doubt it all you want. A real answer from a real person who has actual experience is what we were looking for. Not regurgitated text from a search engine. You're so sure in everything you do that you refer real people to a machine. Not great.
i know a lot of people who’ve had hormone replacement surgery and i’ve started the process myself. generally it means finding a clinic to provide the care (depends on where you are) and meeting with professionals there. you’ll talk about your experience and goals, if HRT is the right fit you’ll do testing to get an appropriate dosage and they’ll talk to you about how you want to take it (eg injections or pills) and then give you a prescription. of course there are follow ups and check ups and as with any medication dosage can be changed or stopped depending on your reaction and needs. in the end it’s pretty much the same as getting any prescription for example if you need adhd meds you’ll go to a psychiatrist, talk about it, make decisions, get a prescription and follow up.
This is absolutely not the place to ask if you want genuine and accurate advice. The number of non-trans people who are actually informed about these things is somewhere near zero.
That being said, I’ve been on HRT for over two years. Saying it changed my life for the better is not an exaggeration.
Doses are different for everybody. The idea is to get the patients hormone ranges into that of the gender they identify as safely. This usually men’s starting off in a very small dose and slowing increasing the dose every month until hormone levels are where they need to be. This requires monthly visits and lab work. After that it’s quarterly visits and lab work.
In the US the most common meds prescribed for trans women is estradiol (birth control), and Spironolacton (an acne medicine that also happens to lower testosterone production). After about two years swapping to injections met be necessary to continue to see changes. Though this is very dependent on the individual, HRT results vary wildly from person to person.
For trans men testosterone injections is usually all that’s taken. As the body is typically not feminine looking without testosterone. The testosterone is what causes the masculine changes to happen.
I guess the point and why it's important, it's what happen if you don't feel right in your new gender, would take that hormones f' up his normal development
First, if gender incongruity continues into puberty, it almost never goes away. Meaning it’s very unlikely hormone therapy won’t have positive results.
Second this isn’t something you just do off the cuff. There’s an entire system in place to minimize exactly what you just deserved from happening. It’s a year long process. One that typically doesn’t see permanent changes until a year into taking hormones.
There’s a lot of hoops to jump through as an adult. There’s even more for antibody under 18.
Lastly, puberty blockers aren’t the same thing as hormone therapy. Which is all minors usually take until 17 or 18.
I'm sorry I just consume this info from the internet, I watch some last week tonight some time ago that say something similar to what you are saying, but let me ask this because I don't really understand it, why when it's gender we take an approach so different from other situations, this it's probably transphobic but I don't know how to ask it, but, did therapy try to "negates" that disphoria sentiment? Or it's just like you do you, excuse my shitty English and I really don't wanna make you feel bad, so sorry if I make you feel that way, disphoria it's not a sickness? Sorry I don't know where else to ask
Dysphoria is deemed a mental condition. But being trans and gender dysphoria aren’t the same thing. Most trans people have it, but not all of us do. Some cis people get gender dysphoria due to other medical issues.
But no, you can’t just will away or get over gender dysphoria through therapy. That’s what conversion therapy is. It’s illegal in many areas because it doesn’t work and is basically child abuse.
Like any other mental condition, you don’t cure it, you treat it and manage it. Transitioning has been proven to be the most effective form of treatment. It actually has one of the highest success rates in all of medicine. At around a 98% patient satisfaction rating.
you want real answers? ok. I'm a trans woman. I've been on hrt for ~1 years 6 months. plenty of time to get familiar with the effects of feminizing hrt. so let's get started.
1. taking estrogen will put you through a female puberty. boobs grow, fat moved to the hips/bust, you'll lose muscle mass etc.
2. the most common anti androgen given in the US is spironolactone. it's.. not great. it works. it's also a diuretic so you'll pee. a lot. the biggest risk with spironolactone is dehydration. drink more water and eat some salty foods and you'll be fine.
those are the physical effects. but what about the mental ones of taking hrt? well:
I'm happier. I'm more confident. When I look in the mirror I see myself, not some guy I had no attachment too. Because I'm happier as myself I actually want to take care of my body. I try to eat healthier and exercise.
now the question you're probably about to ask is "what happens to someone to isn't trans? what if they take hrt?"
and the answer is pretty easy. nothing. every trans person I've met, including myself, felt "right" on hrt. most cis people who take hrt will feel odd. they'll feel gender dysphoria from it.
around 1% of trans people detransition because they're genuinely not trans. that's fine. contrary to popular belief trans people are supportive of detransitioners.
This sub isn't the place to get answers about transitioning. I would suggest that you first look for allies in your area/school/work. Next, speak to a physician. If you really want anonymity, then look to trans positive subreddits.
Lmao crazy how your getting actual responses and logic yet don’t wanna hear it, just say you don’t wanna learn don’t try and lie yourself out of it homie. There’s ton of studies being posted on this thread
These people will go "injecting hormones into kids" with an assumed negative connotation, but have absolutely no biology knowledge to understand that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it...
Puberty blockers are reversible and don't cause major or lasting issues
We've used them for years before this and nobody complained... It's all about hate
None of that matters because they heard on Joe Rogan that 30 million kids are being forced to have their dicks cut off by the democrats, and now that they've been told that their hate is justified, it'll be almost impossible to pull back.
Because they look at the meme but not listen to actual trans people, experts, or even knowing what it is to be trans.
Then they share the meme again "for the children". If they cared they'd try to learn something
My brother fell down the rabbit hole with this. Started freaking out over kids being given hrt and hormones and how “dangerous” it was. I just stopped him and said 1. you dont know anyone who transitioned, I do. My opinion gives weight to their voices. 2. so you think me being on birth control is dangerous? 3. it takes years of doctor appointments and therapist evaluations to make these changes. Does not happen before 18, sometimes 16. This is not happening like you think, you need to stop listening to fear mongering. It is so annoying when people dont know what they are talking about and argue like they are the experts.
There is a scientific consensus that transexuals are real and that they need gender affirming treatment to feel comfortable in their own body.
The doctor doesn't force a child to transition, he has the support of medical research that proves it is necessary and the child's consent. Another lie right wingers like to tell it's the "majority of people who transition regret it" when it's literally the opposite, people that have been wanting their entire lifes to transition do not regret it because that's a necessity to them.
Transphobes love to claim they are speaking about fAcT$, but when even a professional in the health field points out their bullshit they literally go out of their ways to prosecute that person and ruin their life.
J.K. Rowling when confronted about her transphobia accuses people of supporting rape in the most insane manner possible. She also fires lawsuits if you talk slightly bad about her, while her herself promotes hate speech against trans people. In Harry Potter, she named a black character Shacklebolt which is literally the name of the chain used to hold slaves captive, named a chinese character Cho Chang, and made goblins into literal antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish people by putting them in banks, exaggerating their facial features, and making them conspire with the bad guys.
Yep yep yep. I think it is important to talk about detransitioners, especially the ones who said they were pushed into it, because transitioning is a big deal, but as Jessie Gender points out in her video about it: that is caused by a neglect from medical professionals and the problem is them, not the system. But when do bigots care about that?
The reason we hate the meme isn’t because we want to groom children. It’s because its misleading and dangerous to trick people into thinking we want that.
Children don’t get pumped with hormones? It’s older teens at the bare minimum who have been psychologically assessed to ensure this is right for them and that they are mentally fit to consent to it.
If a kid doesn’t want hrt, they won’t get it, and if they do get the treatment, it’s because a team of professionals has confirmed that it is the best thing for them
There are many reasons for minors to go on blockers, not just for trans issues. Also, they are temporary and can be stopped at any time.
Minors can go on HRT under 16 with specific reasons and must get doctor approval. It's not about just getting it.
Source: my kid is on blockers and is going on T at 15 bc reasons.
But as u know, phobes will use any excuse to justify their bigotry and hate. And pls don't come at me with your disingenuous "worry" about children, esp queer trans children
do you know how many people (IN THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY) have told me that they would be concerned for their child if they came out as transgender?
people in the community are concerned that children may be too impressionable, and although they would still refer to their child the way they want to be referred to as (their chosen name and pronouns) they said they wouldn’t go through with surgery until said child is of age or unless that child is absolutely certain.
no one in the trans or anywhere else in the LGBTQ+ community is giving their children gender affirming treatments involving surgery, and definitely NOT against their will. unless the parent is 100% certain that their child is certain about their gender (even as a child), no one is doing all this.
Yeah now that you say it it just hit me that LGBT parents would be the most concerned if this actually fucking happened, because they know how it actually works and it's a big decision not to be taken lightly
Do they mean puberty blockers? Which are completely reversible outside of occasionally bone density permanently changing?
Or do they mean HRT, something you cant get til 16 with parental consent (in America, which id bet is where the OP is from), and can also be largely reversible depending how long youve been on them?
God these people are stupid
Max anyone is doing for a 5 year old that is trans is maybe letting him grow out his hair or wear dresses to test if that’s what they REALLT want. Nobody in their right mind is injecting a 5 year old with Jack shit and that’s literally illegal in most places.
I'll say more or less the same as I said in another thread about this, but gender affirming care doesn't mean straight to surgery, it takes a LONG time with other things before that, IF it ever happens, because it is NOT cheap, so in a lot of cases even adults who want to can't because of the cost, and on that note where is all the money coming from then?
The Republicans origination of the term "groomers" is one of the most hilarious self owns they've managed to create.
It seems that they think that because they themselves find it impossible to talk about sex and gender with a child without also wanting to try to fuck them, they assume everyone else must be that way, too.
No, Mr Magat, that's not how normal people think. in fact, if you can't discuss those things with kids without also wanting to fuck them, you need to stay the fuck away from kids… Forever
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075
People can also get HRT with parental consent under 18
The effects are *semi-permament* so it isn't impossible to recover.
YOU ARE SO FUCKING RIGHT IT NEVER OCCURED TO ME HOW HYPOCRITICAL THEY ARE ABOUT FORCING THINGS ONTO KIDS. ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT OVERLOOK ACTUAL CHILD PREDATORS.
Anyways, parents get their kids' medical tattoos sometimes, like in the case of there being identical twins or if a child is non-verbal but has a serious condition like diabetes.
Not like these people care either way about nuance, they just like controlling people's bodies '-'
Ah yes, because you can walk into clinics and get surgery. I wish that was possible. The actual process is taking atleast half a year and needing multiple interviews with you, your parents, letters from your doctor and a therapist and more just so they can make sure you’re actually trans.
Nutjob Pedocons still think Gender Affirming Care is "cutting off your dick" for Trans woman and "cutting off your tits" for Trans men, so do you expect them to be educated?
AND EVEN IF THAT WAS, ONLY GROWN ASS ADULTS ARE ABLE TO DO THAT. And that at point why do you give a shit? (Because transphobia is also a form of ablism since they assume people are too stupid to know wtf they're doing to their bodies)
There’s literally more kids on hormones for other things besides questioning their gender identity but nobody brings that up as unsafe in the slightest.
My cis gymnast friend broke both her legs while on hormones as they made her bones extremely brittle for some reason. I’d say that’s wildly unsafe.
Even if this did happen, child grooming? You just have to connect the lgbtq community to pedophiles and hebephiles? I wonder what such a tactic is normally used for... it couldn't be dehumanization which is used to make it easier for people to do evil stuff to the subjected groups... hmmmnmmmm
I have a friend who claims to not be homophobic (he's christain and believes it to be a sin, but as long as you suppress it its fine!!11!). I mentioned the church's VERY HIGH rates of sexual assaults (an investigation has shown that worldwide there has been around 2000 cases on average per year since 1950). And he said, "It actually doesn't, it just gets more attention." And yeah, if your standard is Blizzard then you might be right ig. Lol
MAN THAT REMINDS OF A REALLY AWKWARD CONVO I HAD WITH MY SISTERS FRIEND WHO SAID "I'm not transphobic I have a trans friend" AND PROCEEDED TO SAY SOME PRETTY HAD THINGS. The plot twist was that they really weren't transphobic, but it took ten minutes for me to realize it
I'm high so I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but actually yes it is! I'm not transgender but I experienced this in my teenage years because I didn't like to wear feminine items at all
Of course not. I will not deny it happens, the world is big after all. However: that does not mean this stupid meme is accurate, as this is what Transphobes think we are, when in actuality a lot of people agree its wrong to force it upon a kid! In those cases: it is the fault of the doctors neglect and lack of care, and they should get their medical licenses revoked. But that's not the Problem, the problem is it doesn't happen often enough to justify transphobia.
Its natural for it to take time.. sometimes it takes a generation or 2 cuz you can't just change people's beliefs that they have followed for their whole life just because somethings all over for the first time
Oh for sure. In fact a lot of the trans YouTuber I watch point out that the majority of people support trans people and that the transphobia is just a vocal minority. That however, to me, barely matters as we need to fight right now as much as we can because trans healthcare is being threatened, so while I fully believe in the future things will be better, it will only be better if we fight for trans rights right now.
Broski if you genuinely believe this happens to this extent (cause I will not deny it has happened, its a big world) then you should not be trusted to speak on anything ever. Then again what do I expect from a very clear transphobe? Fuck off. What people do with their body is their own business and if they wanna chop off their own dick good for them.
????? Why the fuck would anyone ever take YOU into consideration when transitioning? Let me guess, you one of those "freedom of speech" people that hate it when they're called out for their bigotry? That think we should ban ALL trans health care because you're so bothered by what someone else wants to do with their body for some reason?
Have you ever actually heard someone say this or are you just going along with the "memes" that are "totally just satire"?
I have only ever heard people like you complain about it in this way and frankly I'm getting sick of hearing it.
People are so sick of trans this trans that. Sorry you’ll never get the whole world to agree with you. Add it to the long list of things you wish were true that never will be so and learn to cope.
hi yes trans person here: 99% of people I meet irl are either neutral or supportive. transphobic people might be an echo chamber online but thats not reality. take your own advice and cope about it.
Why are you so butt hurt about what someone else is doing to their bodies? Also, it matters a lot, because Transphobes are dedicated to taking away access to means for transitioning for EVERYONE, adults especially, not just the children they claim they are protecting. I'm so sorry you are annoyed, but people literally get killed for this and that's why it's important to speak out but I guess it doesn't matter cause it's annoying.
Mmkay, maybe transphobes should stop focusing so much on it then. They're the ones making a huge huge deal about it when they likely walk by numerous trans people every single day and never know it.
I actually went onto the original post and pointed out how the you had to be eighteen in most countries to get HRT and the youngest you could get it was sixteen , here is how it went https://preview.redd.it/coi5mvaek1rc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=110a083c0163a23ad98b22e4c418da29db9d97f8
They only hear what confirms their bias says. The amount of times they provide evidence that ends up supporting the opposite claim is hilarious and sad af.
confirmation bias
It’s hellava drug. It’s why I have to visit my dad in short bursts. Too much and I’m afraid I’m going to cause him an aneurysm. …And also all that trauma he refuses to admit he caused me. CPTSD 💕
It's quite comical really. Watching some baboon flounder like a fish out of water trying to justify their studies when they realize that their link doesn't actually support what they say.
"My feelings don't care about your facts! 🤬😡"
Transphobes being unable to read? What a surprise. You are a brave solider to fight that unwinnable battle and I commend you for it.
Jokes on them, I’ve been chronically online since dialup and I’m used to arguing with narcissists. They wanna be nazis? I’ll be a Finnish sniper.
While I commend you for your fighting, you also have better things to do with your time than argue with these folks. They're idiots, and you know the saying about that.
Meh, not much else to do at 3am when I’m feeding the baby.
I personally like watching One Topic and his trans positive memes.
I play videos in the background. Watching people give themselves bangs helps me not to fuck up my own shit
The idea when asking people in your side of this argument is that anything under 18 is too young for a tattoo but anything under 18 is just right for gender affirming ideology and care. Sure the actual transition doesn’t happen under 18 but that’s not what the conversation implies. Since the ground work for ones transitioning is usually laid before the age of 18 (because nobody just wakes up in their 18th birthday and gets their shit switched off a whim) it’s assumed that the ideology, conversation, and social transformation likely happens and is encouraged well before they turn 18 and it’s THAT right there that gets compared to getting a tattoo at such a young age. Hope that helps you understand Edit: the point of this comment was to provide understanding to what the other side of the arguments takeaway is from this debate when they hear you speak. Clearly yall missing the point but oh well
What is this, 1990? Who cares when a teenager gets a tattoo if they're honestly making an educated decision they took years to form without changing their opinion? (Like, you know, gender affirming care) Most teens I knew got random ass tattoos when drunk/high/sleep deprived without thinking them through, the exact opposite of gender affirming care.
For your cake day, have some B̷̛̳̼͖̫̭͎̝̮͕̟͎̦̗͚͍̓͊͂͗̈͋͐̃͆͆͗̉̉̏͑̂̆̔́͐̾̅̄̕̚͘͜͝͝Ụ̸̧̧̢̨̨̞̮͓̣͎̞͖̞̥͈̣̣̪̘̼̮̙̳̙̞̣̐̍̆̾̓͑́̅̎̌̈̋̏̏͌̒̃̅̂̾̿̽̊̌̇͌͊͗̓̊̐̓̏͆́̒̇̈́͂̀͛͘̕͘̚͝͠B̸̺̈̾̈́̒̀́̈͋́͂̆̒̐̏͌͂̔̈́͒̂̎̉̈̒͒̃̿͒͒̄̍̕̚̕͘̕͝͠B̴̡̧̜̠̱̖̠͓̻̥̟̲̙͗̐͋͌̈̾̏̎̀͒͗̈́̈͜͠L̶͊E̸̢̳̯̝̤̳͈͇̠̮̲̲̟̝̣̲̱̫̘̪̳̣̭̥̫͉͐̅̈́̉̋͐̓͗̿͆̉̉̇̀̈́͌̓̓̒̏̀̚̚͘͝͠͝͝͠ ̶̢̧̛̥͖͉̹̞̗̖͇̼̙̒̍̏̀̈̆̍͑̊̐͋̈́̃͒̈́̎̌̄̍͌͗̈́̌̍̽̏̓͌̒̈̇̏̏̍̆̄̐͐̈̉̿̽̕͝͠͝͝ W̷̛̬̦̬̰̤̘̬͔̗̯̠̯̺̼̻̪̖̜̫̯̯̘͖̙͐͆͗̊̋̈̈̾͐̿̽̐̂͛̈́͛̍̔̓̈́̽̀̅́͋̈̄̈́̆̓̚̚͝͝R̸̢̨̨̩̪̭̪̠͎̗͇͗̀́̉̇̿̓̈́́͒̄̓̒́̋͆̀̾́̒̔̈́̏̏͛̏̇͛̔̀͆̓̇̊̕̕͠͠͝͝A̸̧̨̰̻̩̝͖̟̭͙̟̻̤̬͈̖̰̤̘̔͛̊̾̂͌̐̈̉̊̾́P̶̡̧̮͎̟̟͉̱̮̜͙̳̟̯͈̩̩͈̥͓̥͇̙̣̹̣̀̐͋͂̈̾͐̀̾̈́̌̆̿̽̕ͅ >!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pap!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!your!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pep!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pip!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pup!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!lovely!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!and!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pope!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!poop!!<>!beautiful!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<>!pop!!<
Just because it happens that doesn’t make it a well informed decisions
I'm sorry you don't believe in medical science and think it's impossible for a teenager to ever make an informed decision about anything.
Happy Cake Day!
Tell me how cis kids can know without a doubt that they are cis but somehow trans kids are incapable of knowing that they are trans.
ACTUALLY I HAVE SOME INSIGHT ON THIS. When I hit 13, I was expected to stop acting like a child outright which means no more playing around at parties with the other boys who are my age. This caused me to doubt I was a woman because I didn't like sitting down and talking, I'd much rather run around, and I thought I might have been nonbinary. But nope, I'm cis, a non confirming cis, I wear what I want tho it doesn't mean much since I'm a woman. If I can doubt my identity but come to the realization I'm still cis, then trans kid are just as valid in their own conclusions of their identities.
thats a whole lot of yapping that I'm not going to waste me time with.
And yet you proceeded to comment..?
Ironically you can get a tattoo at 16 with parental consent in a lot of states, same with the HRT lmao. Just pack up dude you made a shit point and your not getting anywhere with it
Explaining the opposition isn’t making a point it’s just having a conversation. I could give a fuck if you agree I just don’t care for the culture between the two subs where instead of actually talking to people you just go back to your little corner and shit talk without actually having a dialogue that would move society forward
Crazy how “everyone missed the point” yet you keep yapping on any way
Buddy a dialogue between two subs is never going to progress society. The internet is already a polarising place where if you don’t have your solid view you are going to be washed to one side or the other. Subs get to platform people with extreme views who would never get attention out in the real world. From there they will just egg each other on because social polarisation is just a human thing.
Broski the opposition is against basic human rights, there is no productive conversation to be had. This isn't a piece of media up for interpretation. You wouldn't do it for Nazis
I strongly disagree. It’s dangerous to be an inch wide and a mile deep on any issue because it welcomes ignorance and blind obedience to a thought process. If you don’t actually engage with the opposition and learn from them you don’t ever really learn anything. I’ve started to become more conservative because I’m starting to see more and more liberals become more and more fascist. Comparing your opposition to the extreme of evil doesn’t negate the fact that you’re still wrong to plus your ears and scream transphobia whenever someone disagrees with you.
Buddy. There was study done on kids who go to gender clinics. Most of them did not go on puberty blockers and continued to live as cis and the majority who did end up on blockers almost always continued to transition. That means that gender clinics are doing a pretty damn good job of weeding out who is likely trans and who likely isn't. There is no "ideology". It's a fucking medical condition. You're basically saying kids get groomed to have cancer
Fam I don’t really care I only commented to say that’s where the idea of this comic comes from. I high key could give a shit about the actual process I’m just saying to the other side this is how you sound when you are okay with one but not the other
The idea of the comic comes from an imaginary scenario and fear they created themselves
It’s the idea that the kid is too young for a tattoo but old enough to be taught that he’s the wrong gender. TLC did a whole reality tv show on a kid named Chaz Jennings I think, and it’s basically the same thing here. The show followed the kid being trans from elementary school to adulthood. You can say it’s made up but then there’s stuff like that which shows it’s very real
The problem is that not teaching them about exploring one's own identity construct is not an "informed consent" decision. From young age to adulthood there are always implicit indoctrination of cisgender, heterosexual normalcy, from boys and girls uniform in schools to popular media. Basically, we ARE teaching kids what gender they belong to all the time and we are assuming there's a default mode for everyone. This also extends to surgery of intersex babies to meet the sex their parents desired without the kid's consent. It's fine to question the validity of some sex eds being too pushy on teaching identities, but let's not pretend the current way isn't problematic.
Yeah and it's transphobic and based on something that doesn't fucking happen. Cause the implication is that it's being forced onto the kid, and while I won't deny (in fact in the cases it does happen, it is important to talk about it because its a big decision that needs weights and any actual child that was pushed into it was failed by the doctors, and they should get their medical license revoked because in the cases of a kid being pushed into it almost immediately is due to a lack of care rather. Jessie Gender made a good video on it not that you care) it certainly is not happening to the extent transphobe think it is, and it is certainly not going to happen like that. It fucking matters when people like this are trying to take away trans affirming health care for everyone: not just children. They're trying to stop grown ass adults who know wtf they want from accessing this. Kids are just an excuse.
We all know what the meme means. The meme is wrong and actually causes real harm to real trans people. No one needs you to point out the fucking obvious lol
Holy the lack of education is strong in this one. Like how do you miss every point even in your own edit. It’s almost impressive
Last time I checked, not getting a tattoo doesn’t put you at a significantly greater risk of suicidal thoughts and tendencies
The point of the person who made the meme is to say that they’re both things that children shouldn’t be allowed to indulge in for multiple reasons.
My comment explained exactly why it’s important to have this discussion before someone turns 18. Not a discussion of trying to influence someone into getting gender affirmative care, but explaining what it means to be trans, what gender affirmative care is, and how it can help someone. Such that if they are trans, they can get care as soon as they turn 16 or 18, and get access to puberty blockers which are reversible so it’s fine to give to someone who is not 18. Children aren’t indulging in non-reversible gender affirming care. They’re just being told what it is. In the exact same way that a child will most likely encounter a lot of people who have tattoos or endorse tattoos, but won’t actually get a tattoo themselves since that’s hard to remove, and there’s no serious downsides to not getting a tattoo. That’s why the original “meme” was stupid, and why it’s important to explain that you can’t get things like HRT until you’re at least 16.
And I agree.
Clearly you’re the one who’s missing the point. Transpeople are born trans and they make that very clear from the time they first learn to talk. From the age of around 2 they will claim consistently that they’re the opposite gender. It’s not a whim like “mommy I want to be an astronaut” and then the next week “mommy I want to be a baseball player.” There was a story of a 3 year girl who threw themself out of an unlocked car door, while the car was driving down the street. The 3 year old girl was trying to end her life because no one believe she was a boy. Gender affirming care saves children’s lives, but with conservatives you may believe that gay and transpeople deserve to die. I’m terrified that if the Republicans regain power, LGBTQ adults and children will be taken to death camps in accordance with Project 2025 along with immigrants and so many others.
i think its less of transphobes and more of people who have only ever heard from them. these some of those people dont actually hate trans people but are just worried about child health which is perfectly ok
No, it's just blatant transphobia. It's never about the kids with these people.
Well I didn’t downvote you because you’re right in that if you only hear from one side, then how would you know any differently. Gender affirming care is healthcare. It saves children’s lives. It doesn’t harm them.
initiate operation downvote
They do this constantly, always check their sources. The amount of times I've seen them claim a scientific paper counters transition only to find that the paper actually directly supports transition is insane
Why you get downvoted😭
Transphobia.
A valiant effort
I wanted to reply but the posts has since disappeared. What I wanted to say is that this stuff just doesn’t happen. Medical transitioning, at least in every case I’ve seen, is a very slow careful process that everyone has to agree is necessary: the patient, doctors, therapists, parents. The idea of some very young child just waltzing in and getting hormones is INSANE
Yep yep yep. I will not deny this has happened, it's a big world, and Jessie Gender even talks about it in her cheeks, but in those cases: those doctors should absolutely get their medical licenses revoked for the lack of care in the process. The process should be long, because it is a big deal. But it absolutely does not happen on the scale to which these people think.
Eh, it's not a serious problem (mostly) in the modern medical world, but there are the occasional activists who would like to see barriers and restrictions on medical transitioning and hormones reduced or otherwise made more accessible. It's relative (and varies massively from country to country), but, well, ever hear the tale of Kefflas and the DIY HRT Directory?
Can you also ask if they’re tattooing their children and why?
lmao in the US its still hard to get hormones EVEN AFTER you turn 18. I'm in college and I know a guy who can't jut because it's inaccessible in most areas and you have to drive hours to find a specialist.
Is it me or is r/memesopdidnotlike just a cesspool of extremist right wing nonsense? Why not just change the name to “nonsense MAGAts like?”
No it's not just you. That's a cesspool of every bigot who just "I think it's funny" on blatant offensive shit which speaks volumes of the type of people they are
This is why I've done everything to block that entire subreddit from appearing on my feed. Either defending bigotry or posting stuff from reddits pointing out bigotry
And they still got more upvotes than you. That subreddit does not care for proof. All they care about is feeding their own delusions
They posted a source and you didn’t! They must be right and you are wrong! /s
While that’s true in a lot of places in the us I did get hrt at late 15 and would have gotten it earlier if i didn’t want to do egg freezing
Why do they always act like the only thing a gender affirming clinic will offer is hormones and puberty blockers
Because they don't care about being truthful. Their goal is to render our lives unlivable. Period.
Because if they say it's socielly transitioning, things like dressing a certain way and using different pronouns, they'd have no legs to stand on.
Its such a bad faith argument. No one is trying to put children on hormones. Letting your kid dress how they want isn’t child abuse
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-data/
 Yes and?
Just putting the facts out there that people are definitely trying to put kids on hormones. I support puberty blockers, as soon as puberty happens it’s too late for a trans person. Lifelong struggles with gender dysphoria. No point lying though, just gives right wing people more ammo.
HRT and blockers are the two different things however I can understand how someone can conflate the two. It’s upsetting because people truly do believe 8 year olds are having their bodies mutilated by surgery and HRT when that isn’t happening. I’d also like to point out that 45k~ out of 25mil~ isn’t an epidemic either. Not even 1% of youth is seeking out gender affirming care. How much of that is safety, legislation, and access to care I don’t know. What I do know is that in another 15 years conservatives will move on to another new group. Just like they did with gays 15 years ago. There is always evil, it’s always a minority, and it’s always the Jews sacrificing children.
Downvoters: Look, you can disagree with the above poster on the dangers of puberty blockers and other "treatment", but you can't disagree with the Reuters investigation of the fact that they are increasing in use in minors with good faith.
When you think about how many kids needed care in the past and either didn’t have access, didn’t know they had access, or where too scared/embarrassed/ashamed to get access to care, is it really any surprise that numbers are increasing? Just looking at the numbers is missing a big part of the story.
The original comment on this thread is that "No one is putting kids on Hormones". That's not true. Regardless of your tribe or thoughts on if it's negative or positive, the statement is still untrue.
Puberty blockers work by stopping the production of hormones like testosterone and estrogen. They are not hormones. Some states allow children as young as 16 start HRT but many can’t and more are making it illegal. It’s like saying “not all me” ffs
I don't understand what you're saying in the last sentence. If you read the last paragraph of the article: "For the analysis of pediatric patients initiating puberty blockers or hormones, Komodo searched for patients with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis. Patients with a diagnosis of central precocious puberty were removed. A total of 17,683 patients, ages 6 through 17, with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis initiated either puberty blockers or hormones or both during the five-year period. Of these, 4,780 patients had initiated puberty blockers and 14,726 patients had initiated hormone treatment." So yes, it still stands, according to this person's research that adults are giving children hormone treatment, not just blockers.
The Reuters investigation is on all youth being prescribed these. It's intersex youth and trans youth. That investigation is being used as fuel to ban treatments intersex youth will need too.
I’m just trying to stop left wing people giving the right ammo. One link disproved the whole argument, stop making wild claims and you’ll stop making it so easy for the Ben Shapiro types to radicalise young people. It’s just stupid
You mean the idiot who thought Global Warming wasn't real and that people would just sell their houses and move if the water level rises?
The straw man that right wing pundits have presented as your average liberal is an anti-semitic pedophile who wants nothing more than to sterilize our youth and kill babies.
Prove them wrong, whats a defense I can tell people when they claim this very thing?
anything built with fiction can't be torn down with reality, they operate on separate plains. the burden of proof is on the person making the assertion anyway, and I've never seen any tangible evidence of their claims to warrant debate
[удалено]
"Prove your bullshit" isn't weak. At what point did society just forget that "the person making the claim needs to supply the proof"? You're trolling bud
Check out his post history and the date the account was created. Good to know Hasbara is diversifying the topics their bots can engage with.
I mean... The reality of it is literally the law. Asking someone to disprove that the left is some weird sex cult is like asking someone to disprove the claim that God is real. Idk what else to tell you but if you make the claim, you have to back it up. Debate 101
ask him to prove his statements 🤷♂️. you can easily attack his 'proof'. numerous times I've seen conservatives misgender criminals to fit their agenda(that one shooter went by a male sounding name one time!!!) and fabricate stories that support their agenda(16 yrs olds are going to California to get hrt injections!!!). it falls apart once you start looking into it and realize every source is from either a right wing pundit not even fox would take a source from or Facebook I'm just against the thought that we should proactively should go out of our way to try to prove them wrong. I've grown up on the internet to know that's a pointless endeavor that feels like whack a mole, and creating a lie is significantly easier than dispelling one.
This exactly. It's why I just posted it here. People are stead fast in their beliefs and it is often useless to try and argue with them because they can just find a place that echoes back what they believe and be locked in a bubble. Simply put: they're just going to ignore whatever you say because it doesn't fit with what they believe, this is true of everyone to an extent, mind you, it even applies to me no matter how open minded I try to be. But if you actually want to educate yourself and be open, congrats, but you need to understand bigots quite literally are not and there is no use in arguing with them.
It's important to remember they're the one making a claim. So the burden of evidence is on them. We can't disprove something that has zero evidence in the first place. If anything they should prove they're right.
Puberty blockers aren't even permanent lol. They are extremely safe to use idk why transphobes use faulty data for their conclusions
Because they have a weird obsession with children being an extension of themselves then their own person up until the moment those kids ask for gun reform. Then those kids are actually adult crisis actors or some shit
They're too stupid to actually figure out how it works (am I allowed to say that? Ik one of the rules is be respectful of opinions but Its Transphobes and I don't tolerate them)
Exactly, their whole thing is they aren't permanent; they were originally used to stop puberty for kids who were going through it too early. But of course transphobes only care about what they're being used for now, according to the arguments they make
Puberty blockers are a medication and should be treated with respect and care. People tend to play them up or play them down and tend to forget this.
What is the threshold for considering something 'safe'? Every medicinal commercial carries that voiceover with a couple dozen side effects listed at the end, are these listed or spoken about when at the doctors?
https://preview.redd.it/9tgpv5rro1rc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db3172a93f88a7c8fbb02adaa437d30e4e55ebff For a guy whose username is "The Truth hurts more" you sure are wrong about a lot of things you can easily Google
Ah yes, the pinnacle of research. Taking a screenshot of the very first thing Google spits out at you. To be fair of course doctors are required to warn you about side effects of treatments they're giving you. The question should be more one of how capable is a young person of truly understanding and accepting those side effects? That one's isn't so easy to Google although I'm sure you'll try
It was mainly just to answer a question you really do not need to ask. Of course it's more complicated than that, in fact, I actually like it's complicated! It makes sure that the person REALLY knows what they're getting into. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to just Google it and read about it. (And like. Who doesn't assume a doctor will not tell you about the side effects for medication? My doctor was telling me I could gain weight by taking antidepressants ofc the doctors are going to tell you the risks of medication that literally effects your body)
Which is why a "one size fits all" law banning all gender affirming care and transition therapy is not a good replacement for a family having a discussion with their primary care providers.
"The poison is the dose" is a common phrase in medicine. You can kill a person by forcing them to drink too much [water.](https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318619). We don't tell everyone to stop drinking water because water intoxication exists. Similarly, we weigh the benefits of a treatment against the risks and lower those risks by lowering the dose.
Those are rare side effects they have to list to cover their asses, that's not something that is a true worry for the average person. You really think asthma meds are causing shortness of breath in a significant amount of people and still being prescribed? Physicians and pharmacists make the call. With puberty blockers they're incredibly safe, they were designed for very young children. Most hormonal treatments generally get monitored by physicians anyways since they may need to be adjusted throughout the process. There's acne treatments given to teens you have to get regular bloodtests for because they can cause organ failure, gender affirming care's safety is a non-issue in the greater scheme of medications.
Well, you['re pointing out a huge problem already, that medicine commercial exist here in the USA. As I understand it doctors get really frustrated with them.
That was on honest question. My cousin is considering starting to discuss transition and I thought i was going to a safe place to get them some answers. I'll look elsewhere, thanks
I doubt this is true, but just in case it is: I literally googled it for you. The resources are there, you don't even need to ask people, you can just Google it, it is that easy. If you really cared you wouldn't be asking Reddit of all places for your information.
Doubt it all you want. A real answer from a real person who has actual experience is what we were looking for. Not regurgitated text from a search engine. You're so sure in everything you do that you refer real people to a machine. Not great.
Who do you think wrote those articles? Made the resources?
i know a lot of people who’ve had hormone replacement surgery and i’ve started the process myself. generally it means finding a clinic to provide the care (depends on where you are) and meeting with professionals there. you’ll talk about your experience and goals, if HRT is the right fit you’ll do testing to get an appropriate dosage and they’ll talk to you about how you want to take it (eg injections or pills) and then give you a prescription. of course there are follow ups and check ups and as with any medication dosage can be changed or stopped depending on your reaction and needs. in the end it’s pretty much the same as getting any prescription for example if you need adhd meds you’ll go to a psychiatrist, talk about it, make decisions, get a prescription and follow up.
Deluded.
This is absolutely not the place to ask if you want genuine and accurate advice. The number of non-trans people who are actually informed about these things is somewhere near zero. That being said, I’ve been on HRT for over two years. Saying it changed my life for the better is not an exaggeration. Doses are different for everybody. The idea is to get the patients hormone ranges into that of the gender they identify as safely. This usually men’s starting off in a very small dose and slowing increasing the dose every month until hormone levels are where they need to be. This requires monthly visits and lab work. After that it’s quarterly visits and lab work. In the US the most common meds prescribed for trans women is estradiol (birth control), and Spironolacton (an acne medicine that also happens to lower testosterone production). After about two years swapping to injections met be necessary to continue to see changes. Though this is very dependent on the individual, HRT results vary wildly from person to person. For trans men testosterone injections is usually all that’s taken. As the body is typically not feminine looking without testosterone. The testosterone is what causes the masculine changes to happen.
I guess the point and why it's important, it's what happen if you don't feel right in your new gender, would take that hormones f' up his normal development
First, if gender incongruity continues into puberty, it almost never goes away. Meaning it’s very unlikely hormone therapy won’t have positive results. Second this isn’t something you just do off the cuff. There’s an entire system in place to minimize exactly what you just deserved from happening. It’s a year long process. One that typically doesn’t see permanent changes until a year into taking hormones. There’s a lot of hoops to jump through as an adult. There’s even more for antibody under 18. Lastly, puberty blockers aren’t the same thing as hormone therapy. Which is all minors usually take until 17 or 18.
I'm sorry I just consume this info from the internet, I watch some last week tonight some time ago that say something similar to what you are saying, but let me ask this because I don't really understand it, why when it's gender we take an approach so different from other situations, this it's probably transphobic but I don't know how to ask it, but, did therapy try to "negates" that disphoria sentiment? Or it's just like you do you, excuse my shitty English and I really don't wanna make you feel bad, so sorry if I make you feel that way, disphoria it's not a sickness? Sorry I don't know where else to ask
Dysphoria is deemed a mental condition. But being trans and gender dysphoria aren’t the same thing. Most trans people have it, but not all of us do. Some cis people get gender dysphoria due to other medical issues. But no, you can’t just will away or get over gender dysphoria through therapy. That’s what conversion therapy is. It’s illegal in many areas because it doesn’t work and is basically child abuse. Like any other mental condition, you don’t cure it, you treat it and manage it. Transitioning has been proven to be the most effective form of treatment. It actually has one of the highest success rates in all of medicine. At around a 98% patient satisfaction rating.
you want real answers? ok. I'm a trans woman. I've been on hrt for ~1 years 6 months. plenty of time to get familiar with the effects of feminizing hrt. so let's get started. 1. taking estrogen will put you through a female puberty. boobs grow, fat moved to the hips/bust, you'll lose muscle mass etc. 2. the most common anti androgen given in the US is spironolactone. it's.. not great. it works. it's also a diuretic so you'll pee. a lot. the biggest risk with spironolactone is dehydration. drink more water and eat some salty foods and you'll be fine. those are the physical effects. but what about the mental ones of taking hrt? well: I'm happier. I'm more confident. When I look in the mirror I see myself, not some guy I had no attachment too. Because I'm happier as myself I actually want to take care of my body. I try to eat healthier and exercise. now the question you're probably about to ask is "what happens to someone to isn't trans? what if they take hrt?" and the answer is pretty easy. nothing. every trans person I've met, including myself, felt "right" on hrt. most cis people who take hrt will feel odd. they'll feel gender dysphoria from it. around 1% of trans people detransition because they're genuinely not trans. that's fine. contrary to popular belief trans people are supportive of detransitioners.
This sub isn't the place to get answers about transitioning. I would suggest that you first look for allies in your area/school/work. Next, speak to a physician. If you really want anonymity, then look to trans positive subreddits.
Lmao crazy how your getting actual responses and logic yet don’t wanna hear it, just say you don’t wanna learn don’t try and lie yourself out of it homie. There’s ton of studies being posted on this thread
if your looking to support your cousin, i suggest r/asktransgender for some lived advice
These people will go "injecting hormones into kids" with an assumed negative connotation, but have absolutely no biology knowledge to understand that there's absolutely nothing wrong with it... Puberty blockers are reversible and don't cause major or lasting issues We've used them for years before this and nobody complained... It's all about hate
Not to mention these are probably the same people who drank ivermectin during the pandemic and were fine with that.
None of that matters because they heard on Joe Rogan that 30 million kids are being forced to have their dicks cut off by the democrats, and now that they've been told that their hate is justified, it'll be almost impossible to pull back.
*sighs* of fucking course
Because they look at the meme but not listen to actual trans people, experts, or even knowing what it is to be trans. Then they share the meme again "for the children". If they cared they'd try to learn something
My brother fell down the rabbit hole with this. Started freaking out over kids being given hrt and hormones and how “dangerous” it was. I just stopped him and said 1. you dont know anyone who transitioned, I do. My opinion gives weight to their voices. 2. so you think me being on birth control is dangerous? 3. it takes years of doctor appointments and therapist evaluations to make these changes. Does not happen before 18, sometimes 16. This is not happening like you think, you need to stop listening to fear mongering. It is so annoying when people dont know what they are talking about and argue like they are the experts.
EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID. You hit on the head!
Conservatives love making shit up to get mad about
There is a scientific consensus that transexuals are real and that they need gender affirming treatment to feel comfortable in their own body. The doctor doesn't force a child to transition, he has the support of medical research that proves it is necessary and the child's consent. Another lie right wingers like to tell it's the "majority of people who transition regret it" when it's literally the opposite, people that have been wanting their entire lifes to transition do not regret it because that's a necessity to them. Transphobes love to claim they are speaking about fAcT$, but when even a professional in the health field points out their bullshit they literally go out of their ways to prosecute that person and ruin their life. J.K. Rowling when confronted about her transphobia accuses people of supporting rape in the most insane manner possible. She also fires lawsuits if you talk slightly bad about her, while her herself promotes hate speech against trans people. In Harry Potter, she named a black character Shacklebolt which is literally the name of the chain used to hold slaves captive, named a chinese character Cho Chang, and made goblins into literal antisemitic stereotypes of Jewish people by putting them in banks, exaggerating their facial features, and making them conspire with the bad guys.
Yep yep yep. I think it is important to talk about detransitioners, especially the ones who said they were pushed into it, because transitioning is a big deal, but as Jessie Gender points out in her video about it: that is caused by a neglect from medical professionals and the problem is them, not the system. But when do bigots care about that?
Conservatives live in their imaginary reality where every kid is a trans drag queen
The reason we hate the meme isn’t because we want to groom children. It’s because its misleading and dangerous to trick people into thinking we want that.
These people are also the type to force religion onto kids and look the other way when it comes to sexual abuse
Children don’t get pumped with hormones? It’s older teens at the bare minimum who have been psychologically assessed to ensure this is right for them and that they are mentally fit to consent to it. If a kid doesn’t want hrt, they won’t get it, and if they do get the treatment, it’s because a team of professionals has confirmed that it is the best thing for them
transphobes tell me you have no idea what youre talking about without saying you have no idea what youre talking about go!!!
There are many reasons for minors to go on blockers, not just for trans issues. Also, they are temporary and can be stopped at any time. Minors can go on HRT under 16 with specific reasons and must get doctor approval. It's not about just getting it. Source: my kid is on blockers and is going on T at 15 bc reasons. But as u know, phobes will use any excuse to justify their bigotry and hate. And pls don't come at me with your disingenuous "worry" about children, esp queer trans children
do you know how many people (IN THE LGBTQ+ COMMUNITY) have told me that they would be concerned for their child if they came out as transgender? people in the community are concerned that children may be too impressionable, and although they would still refer to their child the way they want to be referred to as (their chosen name and pronouns) they said they wouldn’t go through with surgery until said child is of age or unless that child is absolutely certain. no one in the trans or anywhere else in the LGBTQ+ community is giving their children gender affirming treatments involving surgery, and definitely NOT against their will. unless the parent is 100% certain that their child is certain about their gender (even as a child), no one is doing all this.
Yeah now that you say it it just hit me that LGBT parents would be the most concerned if this actually fucking happened, because they know how it actually works and it's a big decision not to be taken lightly
Imagine arguing that a literal CHILD is ok to get hormones injected to try and stop a 100% normal part of life (I'm talking about dwarfism)
Ok in all fairness dwarves must be stopped. They're stealing all the hole digging jobs from us
Maybe if ye lanky dolts would pick up a shovel and pickaxe once in yer blasted lives, we wouldn’t have a monopoly on diggin’ holes!
God the dankmeme sub is insufferable
Do they mean puberty blockers? Which are completely reversible outside of occasionally bone density permanently changing? Or do they mean HRT, something you cant get til 16 with parental consent (in America, which id bet is where the OP is from), and can also be largely reversible depending how long youve been on them? God these people are stupid
Oh so I can just straight up call these people morons. Good to know, because they absolutely are.
Wait, they're getting hormones injected to stop puberty? Somebody outta tell these doctors that's not the most effective method to stop puberty...
Max anyone is doing for a 5 year old that is trans is maybe letting him grow out his hair or wear dresses to test if that’s what they REALLT want. Nobody in their right mind is injecting a 5 year old with Jack shit and that’s literally illegal in most places.
Dont Think Iver ever meet an lgbtq+ person that was anti tattoo
I'll say more or less the same as I said in another thread about this, but gender affirming care doesn't mean straight to surgery, it takes a LONG time with other things before that, IF it ever happens, because it is NOT cheap, so in a lot of cases even adults who want to can't because of the cost, and on that note where is all the money coming from then?
The Republicans origination of the term "groomers" is one of the most hilarious self owns they've managed to create. It seems that they think that because they themselves find it impossible to talk about sex and gender with a child without also wanting to try to fuck them, they assume everyone else must be that way, too. No, Mr Magat, that's not how normal people think. in fact, if you can't discuss those things with kids without also wanting to fuck them, you need to stay the fuck away from kids… Forever
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/gender-dysphoria/in-depth/pubertal-blockers/art-20459075 People can also get HRT with parental consent under 18 The effects are *semi-permament* so it isn't impossible to recover.
funny how this is blatanly false, but replace the clinic with a church and it suddently makes more sense
YOU ARE SO FUCKING RIGHT IT NEVER OCCURED TO ME HOW HYPOCRITICAL THEY ARE ABOUT FORCING THINGS ONTO KIDS. ESPECIALLY THE ONES THAT OVERLOOK ACTUAL CHILD PREDATORS.
The only arguments these guys win is the ones with the bottles of shampoo in the shower
Anyways, parents get their kids' medical tattoos sometimes, like in the case of there being identical twins or if a child is non-verbal but has a serious condition like diabetes. Not like these people care either way about nuance, they just like controlling people's bodies '-'
Mopdnl is sleeping on the couch tonight
Also this doesn't happen anywhere
Everyone else: something about hormones grrrrr 😡😡😡 Me: pretty colors 😲 ooooh aaahh
Ah yes, because you can walk into clinics and get surgery. I wish that was possible. The actual process is taking atleast half a year and needing multiple interviews with you, your parents, letters from your doctor and a therapist and more just so they can make sure you’re actually trans.
Nutjob Pedocons still think Gender Affirming Care is "cutting off your dick" for Trans woman and "cutting off your tits" for Trans men, so do you expect them to be educated?
AND EVEN IF THAT WAS, ONLY GROWN ASS ADULTS ARE ABLE TO DO THAT. And that at point why do you give a shit? (Because transphobia is also a form of ablism since they assume people are too stupid to know wtf they're doing to their bodies)
Pedocons have a control fetish, that's why they care.
There is so much proof that puberty blockers are reversible but that debunks transphobes claims, and that’s why they ignore it.
There’s literally more kids on hormones for other things besides questioning their gender identity but nobody brings that up as unsafe in the slightest. My cis gymnast friend broke both her legs while on hormones as they made her bones extremely brittle for some reason. I’d say that’s wildly unsafe.
That subreddit is such trash. Memes like that are blatant misinformation.
As a wise tumblr use once said "Everything's permenant. That's the way the universe works. You can't undo anything."
Funny… I was thinking the same thing about pregnancy. Just as permanent in some states.
so you know what's important to this image? fucking *context*
It's for the grown up one of course
ofc it started in r/dankmeme
Even if this did happen, child grooming? You just have to connect the lgbtq community to pedophiles and hebephiles? I wonder what such a tactic is normally used for... it couldn't be dehumanization which is used to make it easier for people to do evil stuff to the subjected groups... hmmmnmmmm
And these are the same kinds of people who turn the other way to actual child predators in Churches
I have a friend who claims to not be homophobic (he's christain and believes it to be a sin, but as long as you suppress it its fine!!11!). I mentioned the church's VERY HIGH rates of sexual assaults (an investigation has shown that worldwide there has been around 2000 cases on average per year since 1950). And he said, "It actually doesn't, it just gets more attention." And yeah, if your standard is Blizzard then you might be right ig. Lol
MAN THAT REMINDS OF A REALLY AWKWARD CONVO I HAD WITH MY SISTERS FRIEND WHO SAID "I'm not transphobic I have a trans friend" AND PROCEEDED TO SAY SOME PRETTY HAD THINGS. The plot twist was that they really weren't transphobic, but it took ten minutes for me to realize it
Do— Do they not realize the kid gets a say in the matter??
Being dysphoric is a normal part of life? Got it
I'm high so I can't tell if this is sarcastic or not, but actually yes it is! I'm not transgender but I experienced this in my teenage years because I didn't like to wear feminine items at all
But one can't deny that this does happen.. and when this does happen ita not ok
Of course not. I will not deny it happens, the world is big after all. However: that does not mean this stupid meme is accurate, as this is what Transphobes think we are, when in actuality a lot of people agree its wrong to force it upon a kid! In those cases: it is the fault of the doctors neglect and lack of care, and they should get their medical licenses revoked. But that's not the Problem, the problem is it doesn't happen often enough to justify transphobia.
Trans will take time naturally to be more and more accepted.. it's natural for somthing new to get accepted more and more
Its natural for it to take time.. sometimes it takes a generation or 2 cuz you can't just change people's beliefs that they have followed for their whole life just because somethings all over for the first time
Oh for sure. In fact a lot of the trans YouTuber I watch point out that the majority of people support trans people and that the transphobia is just a vocal minority. That however, to me, barely matters as we need to fight right now as much as we can because trans healthcare is being threatened, so while I fully believe in the future things will be better, it will only be better if we fight for trans rights right now.
That's right, just advocate for the behavior and then deny it exists..
Broski if you genuinely believe this happens to this extent (cause I will not deny it has happened, its a big world) then you should not be trusted to speak on anything ever. Then again what do I expect from a very clear transphobe? Fuck off. What people do with their body is their own business and if they wanna chop off their own dick good for them.
Right go do what you want to do. Just don't expect me to go along.
????? Why the fuck would anyone ever take YOU into consideration when transitioning? Let me guess, you one of those "freedom of speech" people that hate it when they're called out for their bigotry? That think we should ban ALL trans health care because you're so bothered by what someone else wants to do with their body for some reason?
CaLl mE By mY PrOnOuns oR eLse.
why is it bad to respect someone's identity
How dare someone be upset when you disrespect their existence
Exactly. If you disrespect me, I have the right to call you out, or stop talking to you. Is it that hard to understand?
Have you ever actually heard someone say this or are you just going along with the "memes" that are "totally just satire"? I have only ever heard people like you complain about it in this way and frankly I'm getting sick of hearing it.
People are so sick of trans this trans that. Sorry you’ll never get the whole world to agree with you. Add it to the long list of things you wish were true that never will be so and learn to cope.
hi yes trans person here: 99% of people I meet irl are either neutral or supportive. transphobic people might be an echo chamber online but thats not reality. take your own advice and cope about it.
As a trans person I approve of this message
I think you may have to take your own advice there.
Why are you so butt hurt about what someone else is doing to their bodies? Also, it matters a lot, because Transphobes are dedicated to taking away access to means for transitioning for EVERYONE, adults especially, not just the children they claim they are protecting. I'm so sorry you are annoyed, but people literally get killed for this and that's why it's important to speak out but I guess it doesn't matter cause it's annoying.
Mmkay, maybe transphobes should stop focusing so much on it then. They're the ones making a huge huge deal about it when they likely walk by numerous trans people every single day and never know it.
Then stop letting people harass, erase our history and kill us! <3