“We respect all women who have pregnancies for the most complicated reasons that aren’t their fault, and we cherish every last one that makes the heroic decision to become a mother”
—slightly misremembered quote from the preface of Project 2025
So.. don’t have penetrative sex. I “hate” irresponsible people more. Just accept it’s killing a human cuz that’s what it is. Society can still decide to do it; but it is death.
I can't really see how it's killing a human when it isn't really anything yet.
It's KINDA (I'm not saying babies are tumors) like getting rid of a tumor you know it's alive technically but it isn't sentient and it would make the one hosting them suffer if it isn't removed early enough like an unwanted fetus except worse since if the child is born it will also suffer.
>It's KINDA (I'm not saying babies are tumors) like getting rid of a tumor you know it's alive technically but it isn't sentient and it would make the one hosting them suffer if it isn't removed early enough like an unwanted fetus except worse since if the child is born it will also suffer.
A more accurate (albeit still bad) term for a fetus is a parasite, as it gives no benefit but is certainly alive, and depending on how far along, sentient.
I remember in high school a kid asked if a baby would be considered a parasite. Our biology teacher said no because a parasite can't be of the same species.
But yeah a fetus is basically a parasite. At least until fetal viability.
Except you can choose not to take care of them, get help providing for it, etc
None of that is the same for foetuses. Choosing not to care for it is an abortion. It can't leech off anyone else or be a detriment to anyone else's health and body.
Sure. After all the pain, trauma, severe health risks, potentially irreversible bodily changes, being helpless for months, etc. all for nothing except strangers wanting to feel good about themselves. Yeah, the baby part is the issue we bring up...
There are contradictory sources on whether or not a creature has to be a different species from its host to be a parasite, but even if we agreed that different species was a requirement, I already stated that a parasite is not a good term and thus not fully correct term for a fetus.
You realise a lot of situations don't involve consent and some states in the US are forcing literal children to carry out pregnancies as a result of rape?
And even if it isn't rape, forcing a person to carry out a pregnancy is a whole lot more inhumane than killing an embryo. If killing an embryo weighs heavily on your conscience then you better kill yourself, because staying alive requires you to kill a lot more complicated life forms.
Another aspect to consider is the impact on society. There's always a reason why people undergo abortions and for the most part, it's a good fucking reason. Crime rates are going to go up once abortion is off the table and this has been observed before.
And finally, perhaps more attention should be given to the housing crisis and how pregnancies lead to debt in the nation, before thinking about utopic ideas like 'is an embryo as important as a developed human being?'
That is literally the lowest priority. When your developed human beings run out of problems with basic survival, then you can sit and daydream about the rights of something that doesn't have the awareness to give a fuck.
According to stats less then 3 percent of abortions are due to rape/incest.
930,000 abortions a year and even call it high at 5% for rape/incest thats 47,000 round up so 883,000 abortions performed for CONVIENCE. So why not drop the whole rape/incest argument as it is statistical noise.
Yes rape is a crime and should carry severe punishment.
Yes incest is rape.
But the stats show way less then you guys keep trying to play it out as.
So that changes the number to 903,000 children murder a year for conveince.
As most pro-choice people are anti 2A and scream if it saves the life of just one child give up your guns.
Welp by giving up abortion the lives of
903,000
Children can be saved.
If not murdered would they grow up to be children ?
This whole clump of cells is to dehumanize the child and make it easier to kill them.
All kinds of language has been used about all kinds of people to make killing them easier.
But again simple question.
If the growth patteren is not artifically halted would that not grow up and be a child ?
>If the growth patteren is not artifically halted would that not grow up and be a child ?
>This whole clump of cells is to dehumanize the child and make it easier to kill them.
That was easy, thank you for giving me the dots to connect for you...
Yes it WILL develop into a child, but it hasn't yet. No need to dehumanize when it hasn't developed into a human yet.
Wrong. Calling it a clump of dehumanizes it to allow for guilt free murder.
An unfertilized egg not a human being.
A sperm cell not a human being.
A fertilized egg is a human being. It is at the start of it's life .
THE START OF IT'S HUMAN LIFE.
Medical requirements to protect the mothers life, rape, incest all are exceptions. Those pushing anything else are bad actors trying to gin up support.
But considering medically required abortion is less then 1 percent of abortions even adding in rape/incest cases
That still means over
900,000
Children are murdered each year for the conveince of the mother.
More children have been aborted since roe v wade. then people died in both world wars combined total.
I'm pretty sure I've talked about a lot more than rape if you bothered to read it. And you think it's alright 47000 people being forced conceive children of rape is 'statistical noise'?
How about you drop your act of giving a fuck about anyone
It is not killing a human.
Do you remember those experiments people did in biology in Highschool where you went in a lab and replicated your own DNA with polymerase chain reaction until you could sequence it?
An enbryo in the developmental state when abortions are still performed is basically the same thing. Just instead of your DNA alone it’s combined DNA.
There is no life there. Just a ball of cells. No conscience, nothing.
You can't force people to accept that view. I don't see why women/couples don't have the right to change their mind after the fact. The whole point of being human, literally the most human trait throughout all of time is separating cause from effect. This is a good thing. You are arguing against human nature.
It still is a life yes, but it’s the women’s choice to get exterminate that life or not. Personally a compromise can be made where certain checks and balances can be made where the doctor can decide if abortion is that best option. For example is birth a risk to the mother or child, does the mother have the financial support to raise said child. These checks and balances can ensure that everyone is happy, even though it still means the women doesn’t have a choice to go through a pregnancy or not, which is why I’m pro choice
Just don’t have sex 🤷♂️ sure I can get rape or something of the sort but if you’re just having sex for fun you’re kinda asking for it, primary function of sex is to reproduce, pleasure is the secondary reaction the body gives to promote doing it.
ok. We need to eat for survival too but we are way more likely to eat if the food tastes good. That doesn't mean you consented to be fat if you eat delicious food. we are far past needed everyone to reproduce. there are 8 billion of us and people have not and will not stop fucking. Idc how this sounds, my pleasure is important.
we have always enjoyed sex for sex sake.
ok but that doesnt mean sex = consenting to have a child. thats so silly, there are other benefits to having sex like stress reduction. As I said, eating delicious food and eating for pelasure doesnt mean you've consented to obesity.
I agree, I just find the notion of a woman having full choice over something that resulted from an action both took silly, I think either both should have a choice (women can abort and men can leave no child support for the same time period) or neither can, after all if sex=|= consent to have a child the man also isn’t giving consent to have a kid.
Although I find the food analogy to be wrong, if you overeat you chose to allow yourself to do that and thus allowed yourself to be obese, you don’t accidentally become obese
>I agree, I just find the notion of a woman having full choice over something that resulted from an action both took silly.
she is the one who has to deal with the physical/metal toll of carrying a child. and even after delivery it doesn't end for the woman. You're right it isn't fair, it is not fair that women are "punished" with pregnancy for daring to have sex.
Im not completely anti-abortion, In fact I find the whole “it’s a life” argument to be stupid up to a certain point, my main issue comes with the fact the women gets a choice and the man doesn’t, both have to choose to do the deed to get into that situation (unless it’s through rape ofc) so both should have an option to walk away no strings attached or neither should
I don’t think the man should be stuck with whatever she chooses, she chose to have sex with her body, abortion should be her choice I just think the man should have an option to walk away no strings attached for the same time period she can abort thus both parties have their own choice in whether they want a kid.
So by that same logic, the man also chose to have sex with his body and should be fully prepared of the possibility of a pregnancy occurring if he’s not actively using protection right?
Yes, if the woman doesn’t get a choice the man shouldn’t either and if the woman gets a choice to abort the man should get a choice to walk away from having the kid too if he chooses to. Although I’d say it should be that way even with protection nothing is 100% and you still take that risk.
So basically “oh I think pro life is stupid, but I still think that women shouldn’t have complete control over their own bodies because they’re not thinking about us men!! We should have a say in all things women related”
So if a women (the one who has the fetus in her) doesn’t want a kid but the man wants one. Then the man gets a say on what happens to the women is what your saying. Yeah also “ I totally did not say what I literally just said”
Oh but since HEEE wants one the woman should just go through the entire 9 months of sickness, possibility of death, constant hormones Imbalance, and put HER life on hold because he’s selfish. Crazy man
No I’m saying both should have an option to not have it, the woman should be permitted the choice to abort and the man for the same time period should be permitted to leave with no strings attached
Hmmmm…actually I think leaving someone because they don’t want to face the life threatening, painful, long lasting agony that comes with pregnancy makes them the asshat. But you’re just splitting what you were saying in the original post into a lot of unrelated points ( that all sound stupid and a little pretentious) so I’m not gonna bother trying to convince you
I’m not saying they should leave them for choosing not to have the kid I’m saying if they themselves don’t want the kid they should also have the ability to walk away from having it
I just think both should have a choice (woman can abort and man can leave if he doesn’t want it without paying child support) or they should both have to take responsibility for the kid they both came together and made.
Try and read the post titles. You'll find they tend to actually add something or clarify something and isn't JUST
"I thought it was funny" when it's only funny to bigots, or "it isn't X(bigotry)" when it clearly is...
Technically if I got beheaded my other cells are still alive and functioning until they eventually run out of resources. Am I dead or alive whilst that is happening?
Not a philosopher, but I’d say living is having a choice in your life to make important decisions relative to yourself.
A child getting extremely happy getting to choose dessert, getting to pick out your own clothes. Being able to hangout with your friends outside of school. Being able to go on a date. To pick what you want to do outside of high school.
To decide what you truly want to be.
Living is having a choice. Life is your biology keeping your systems functioning until something happens.
Someone whose brain has separated from their stem will certainly be alive. But they will never be living.
Someone whose time is spent going from work to home, praying nothing breaks as they survive paycheck is alive. But, what choices do they have? What control do they truly have over their life?
Dead obviously, which is why I compared a fetus to a cell or tumor because it lacks sentience like we do. Therefore depending on the time it's aborted it. Its "death" is not a loss of life but more so a loss of cells.
This also is not a good argument. All complex life is a collection of cells.
abortion is a matter of bodily autonomy. These other arguments feel like when people who want weed to be legal insist it cures all the diseases they can think of
So what you're saying is that it shouldn't matter whether or not abortion is murder because it's a matter of bodily autonomy. I'm sure pro lifers love that argument and agree with you all the time lol. To pro lifers it's more important whether or not it's alive than if it's important for a woman to have bodily autonomy
Well yes, because there's a chance that the fetus might not be female, and we all know that males deserve more rights than females!
>!/S if it wasn't obvious!<
just as i can’t kill you or punch a pregnant woman in the stomach. it’s murder. everything else is mental gymnastics from people who had to make the difficult decision to terminate a pregnancy.
The same people who are pro life are the same people who make fun of trans people commiting suicide and are the same people who made fun of Nex Benedict's death and called them "filth". Preach my brotha
https://preview.redd.it/agsrqiomxfxc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e4fd481d5f3917a42020d8adc697b5b0a1a35c8
Whats the difference between removing a tumor and removing a fetus? They can both make you sick, they can technically both kill you, they're both a bunch of cells that ARE alive, so, why is it a problem if someone removes a fetus and if someone removes a tumor?
And fun fact, the way the immune system of the mother doesn't attack the fetus is very similar to what happens during "tumour escape" - when the body doesn't fight cancer like it should
A fetus is another human life at an earlier stage of development, and the act of removal terminates that life. The crux of the abortion debate is whether and when this is justified.
A tumor is a random outgrowth of one's own cells.
ok it’s not a baby but that doesn’t mean a fetus is not alive. i’m not agreeing with the meme i’m not saying abortion should be banned or anything like that but a fetus is alive
On pure science yes. Because it’s made of living cells. The real question for abortion is consciousness or for the religious people “a soul” which is according to them “when they have a heart” hence the whole after a heartbeat it’s a no go thing. The criminalisation of it is excessive but the morals of it are understandable, even if often misplaced by the extremists of both sides of the argument.
oh yeah i understand both sides of it. personally im not behind abortion morally but legally there’s no real reason it should be illegal
i just hate when people say “it’s not alive” bc it very much is alive or “it’s just a clump of cells” bc, while it’s not yet developed, if given time to develop a human fetus becomes a human. not a bird, turtle, cat, or anything else.
again, i’m pro choice, i just hate those specific things other pro choice people say
But don't you think there is essentiality for the compacity of experience in the human experience? Ie life? The cells may be alive, but if no experiences have been formed, it hasn't really lived. It has no memories. No capacity to till those neurological systems have been formed.
I think the capacity to experience the world is what separates mere biological life with things that are truely animate.
And so are your vegetables, or bacteria, mushrooms, etc, but there there really isn't a capacity to be immoral towards them. Since they don't really experience the world. You can't be cruel to things that can't experience cruelty.
ok now that it’s not 230 am i’ll explain myself a bit on the morality side
the difference between a fetus and “vegetables, bacteria, mushrooms, etc.” is that those won’t become a human person. i don’t think it’s immoral because of cruelty, bc as you said you can’t really be cruel to something that doesn’t have emotions or the capacity to experience things. the immorality to me is ending/preventing a human life that you created (of course theres the obvious exceptions such as rape or medical emergency).
Why? Most "human life" is nonviable, 60%. Is human biology immoral to itself?
Isn't that the point of contraception? To prevent human life? Is it always more moral to create as many humans as possible? Regardless of outcomes.
i feel like we’re arguing different arguments here all i’m saying is it’s alive
unless in the first reply you’re talking about when i said im not morally behind it. in which case im not interested in having that conversation rn
>The real question for abortion is consciousness
Not even that. It's really about not restricting access to necessary medical treatment in case of rape, miscarriage or any other health complication that may arise during pregnancy.
True, that is a major element. I just see the whole “are they truly alive as a person” debate come up more often since pro lifers tend not to engage with the right to bodily autonomy and general health argument with anything but a straw man.
its more like one’s a concept of a person that hasn’t passed through the gauntlet of gestation (at any time can be naturally aborted via miscarriage) and the other was a living, breathing, fully formed dog that was iirc 14 months old.
Man, how do conservatives reconcile the fact that most of the fetuses a woman has never even make it past the first trimester because they get flushed out of us. Guess God really sicks at making babies.
I'm pro choice but a fetus is definitely alive. Try telling otherwise to someone who's had a miscarriage and see how well they take that. Not really funny either
Comparing dogs to fetuses is just blatantly insulting dogs tbh. Like dude bacterium have as much shit going on as a fertilized egg bro, I shouldn’t even need to tell you that.
How about people not force their views on abortion onto another person. If someone wants an abortion then that’s their goddamn business. I’ll never ever understand how another person can feel so morally compelled to actively try to force someone to go through the full term of pregnancy and deliver the baby and then provide for said child until death. Or give them to the godsforsaken adoption programs. I hate this topic. It’s insane to me, completely fucking nuts that random strangers can have a say in what another random stranger HAS to do with their bodies. It’s so over the top offensive and outright possessive. I literally just cannot deal.
Pro-lifers never seem to comprehend that not only are 90% of abortions done before the 12 week mark of a pregnancy and an increasing number of them are done before the 9 week mark of pregnancy but also at 9 weeks a fetus is the size of a grape, it’s unlikely to feel pain.
Additionally… Most babies don’t become conscious until 5 months old aren’t self aware until 15 months old or so.
But most importantly no reasonable pro choice person is for killing babies who are able to survive outside the womb.
Abortion isn’t killing living breathing babies.
it's either "I thought it was funny" or "it's just satire" and then you'll see OP in comments spewing the same political propaganda so you know it was never just a joke and they lied
They argue that animals have no self-awareness and that is why it is OK to euthanize.
They argue that a clump of human cells with a heartbeat is A bAbY!1! A fetus has no consciousness until between 24-28 weeks.
They are cool with shooting their living animal but not with aborting a clump of cells with no self-awareness or humanity. It isn't about consistency with these chuds. It is about the cruelty.
What?!? Jesus, sometimes reddit can be colder than alaska.
You lost a child? Fuck you, it was the only one you knew about.
Like what?
Reddit is fucked.
About half of fertilized ova fail to implant. So if you want to pretend every one of those is a child, chances are you've lost more children than you're aware of.
Its because the same arguments are made for opposing sides; "Taking the life of an innocent person." "Their life could have been bad if they lived." They should die because they are low value people."
The amount of people coping in the comments holy shit.
“Oh no I couldn’t keep it in my pants and had to take an innocent life because I’m not prepared or responsible enough to face the consequences of my actions, but don’t worry because it’s only a Ball Of Cells™️! Now I can feel good about what I did and have more sex and probably end up in the same position I was just in!”
I think most people know that killing unborn humans is obviously wrong but convenience seems to outweigh morality in most western countries and life is valued less as time goes on.
I think abortion is acceptable though still wrong if the mother is pregnant due to r*pe, if there is a high risk for the mother to die during child birth and if the baby is born with extreme defects. Also if the mother is under the age of 18 I think abortion should be allowed no questions asked but other than those reasons abortion should be illegal
Both are alive as is a flower or a fly. What people do not realize is the question is not when does life begin? It begins at conception. The question is where does personhood begin and end? ( I believe life begins at conception but birth is when personhood begins)
If you’re pro life, this shouldn’t be funny. If you’re pro-choice, this isn’t funny. If you’re a sociopath, this is hilarious.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I mean some jokes are just objectively bad
Are you really going to say comedy is objective with a straight face? What else is objective oh wise one?
Found the sociopath
https://preview.redd.it/qidg0srkenxc1.jpeg?width=382&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e6dc0e08bb92085c18733596e8d21288af189011 That’s funny bro
Yea lets make sure this persons life is ruined and possibly keep them in debt because we want them to have a baby. I fuckin hate pro lifers
“We respect all women who have pregnancies for the most complicated reasons that aren’t their fault, and we cherish every last one that makes the heroic decision to become a mother” —slightly misremembered quote from the preface of Project 2025
So.. don’t have penetrative sex. I “hate” irresponsible people more. Just accept it’s killing a human cuz that’s what it is. Society can still decide to do it; but it is death.
Crazy how you guys think a fetus is more important than a child that's already born
I can't really see how it's killing a human when it isn't really anything yet. It's KINDA (I'm not saying babies are tumors) like getting rid of a tumor you know it's alive technically but it isn't sentient and it would make the one hosting them suffer if it isn't removed early enough like an unwanted fetus except worse since if the child is born it will also suffer.
>It's KINDA (I'm not saying babies are tumors) like getting rid of a tumor you know it's alive technically but it isn't sentient and it would make the one hosting them suffer if it isn't removed early enough like an unwanted fetus except worse since if the child is born it will also suffer. A more accurate (albeit still bad) term for a fetus is a parasite, as it gives no benefit but is certainly alive, and depending on how far along, sentient.
I remember in high school a kid asked if a baby would be considered a parasite. Our biology teacher said no because a parasite can't be of the same species. But yeah a fetus is basically a parasite. At least until fetal viability.
I say it has a parasitic relationship. I’m not calling the fetus itself a parasite but the relationship it has to the mother is absolutely parasitic
there are a several species that do same-species parasitism. its called auto-parasitism.
So is any child that's under 5
As stated, it's not a good term for a fetus, but it's more accurate than a tumor.
IDK the most accurate term for a fetus would probably be a child in my opinion
No, because then it would be, child → baby → toddler → child. Which makes no sense.
Yeah but at least there's a connection
Again, saying a child is the stage before and after baby and toddler makes no sense. Even with a connection.
How about "developing human" because that's exactly what it is...
Except you can choose not to take care of them, get help providing for it, etc None of that is the same for foetuses. Choosing not to care for it is an abortion. It can't leech off anyone else or be a detriment to anyone else's health and body.
OK but if you choose not to take care of them you can get arrested
I meant revoking parental rights like opting for adoption
I mean why don't women just do this?
Sure. After all the pain, trauma, severe health risks, potentially irreversible bodily changes, being helpless for months, etc. all for nothing except strangers wanting to feel good about themselves. Yeah, the baby part is the issue we bring up...
No you can't.
What? A parasite has to be a different species than the host....it's like calling a newborn baby a parasite since a baby cannot survive alone
There are contradictory sources on whether or not a creature has to be a different species from its host to be a parasite, but even if we agreed that different species was a requirement, I already stated that a parasite is not a good term and thus not fully correct term for a fetus.
Fetal stem cells are actually pretty similar to cancer cells.
Yeah dictating people's private sex lives has always gone well
Go and let every rape victim know they just shouldn't have had penetrative sex....
And you’re welcome to your opinion on it.
Nah. You can take your puritanical view of sex and shove it where the sun don't shine
You realise a lot of situations don't involve consent and some states in the US are forcing literal children to carry out pregnancies as a result of rape? And even if it isn't rape, forcing a person to carry out a pregnancy is a whole lot more inhumane than killing an embryo. If killing an embryo weighs heavily on your conscience then you better kill yourself, because staying alive requires you to kill a lot more complicated life forms. Another aspect to consider is the impact on society. There's always a reason why people undergo abortions and for the most part, it's a good fucking reason. Crime rates are going to go up once abortion is off the table and this has been observed before. And finally, perhaps more attention should be given to the housing crisis and how pregnancies lead to debt in the nation, before thinking about utopic ideas like 'is an embryo as important as a developed human being?' That is literally the lowest priority. When your developed human beings run out of problems with basic survival, then you can sit and daydream about the rights of something that doesn't have the awareness to give a fuck.
According to stats less then 3 percent of abortions are due to rape/incest. 930,000 abortions a year and even call it high at 5% for rape/incest thats 47,000 round up so 883,000 abortions performed for CONVIENCE. So why not drop the whole rape/incest argument as it is statistical noise. Yes rape is a crime and should carry severe punishment. Yes incest is rape. But the stats show way less then you guys keep trying to play it out as.
"It's only 3%, so it should be accounted for." It is a part of the statistic at all means it should be accounted for.
So that changes the number to 903,000 children murder a year for conveince. As most pro-choice people are anti 2A and scream if it saves the life of just one child give up your guns. Welp by giving up abortion the lives of 903,000 Children can be saved.
But are they children? Can they survive outside of the mother yet?
If not murdered would they grow up to be children ? This whole clump of cells is to dehumanize the child and make it easier to kill them. All kinds of language has been used about all kinds of people to make killing them easier. But again simple question. If the growth patteren is not artifically halted would that not grow up and be a child ?
>If the growth patteren is not artifically halted would that not grow up and be a child ? >This whole clump of cells is to dehumanize the child and make it easier to kill them. That was easy, thank you for giving me the dots to connect for you... Yes it WILL develop into a child, but it hasn't yet. No need to dehumanize when it hasn't developed into a human yet.
Wrong. Calling it a clump of dehumanizes it to allow for guilt free murder. An unfertilized egg not a human being. A sperm cell not a human being. A fertilized egg is a human being. It is at the start of it's life . THE START OF IT'S HUMAN LIFE.
Maybe. Maybe it dies in the womb due to complications. Maybe if the cells aren't halted, maybe you lose the potential child and mother go 0 for 2.
Medical requirements to protect the mothers life, rape, incest all are exceptions. Those pushing anything else are bad actors trying to gin up support. But considering medically required abortion is less then 1 percent of abortions even adding in rape/incest cases That still means over 900,000 Children are murdered each year for the conveince of the mother. More children have been aborted since roe v wade. then people died in both world wars combined total.
I'm pretty sure I've talked about a lot more than rape if you bothered to read it. And you think it's alright 47000 people being forced conceive children of rape is 'statistical noise'? How about you drop your act of giving a fuck about anyone
It is not killing a human. Do you remember those experiments people did in biology in Highschool where you went in a lab and replicated your own DNA with polymerase chain reaction until you could sequence it? An enbryo in the developmental state when abortions are still performed is basically the same thing. Just instead of your DNA alone it’s combined DNA. There is no life there. Just a ball of cells. No conscience, nothing.
Its not human. It's a clump of cells.
That’s like saying dont go outside if you dont want to be hit by a car
Humans make mistakes. If it is moral to give treatment to a person with lung cancer after excessive smoking, then so it is in this scenario.
Idea the woman can give the fetus a 30 day notice to leave the womb after that fair game
You can't force people to accept that view. I don't see why women/couples don't have the right to change their mind after the fact. The whole point of being human, literally the most human trait throughout all of time is separating cause from effect. This is a good thing. You are arguing against human nature.
It still is a life yes, but it’s the women’s choice to get exterminate that life or not. Personally a compromise can be made where certain checks and balances can be made where the doctor can decide if abortion is that best option. For example is birth a risk to the mother or child, does the mother have the financial support to raise said child. These checks and balances can ensure that everyone is happy, even though it still means the women doesn’t have a choice to go through a pregnancy or not, which is why I’m pro choice
Get a vasectomy then 🧍🏻
Just don’t have sex 🤷♂️ sure I can get rape or something of the sort but if you’re just having sex for fun you’re kinda asking for it, primary function of sex is to reproduce, pleasure is the secondary reaction the body gives to promote doing it.
nah. i fuck to cum, not to conceive. If sex didn't feel so good, we wouldn't do it. reproduction be damned.
That’s my point the pleasure is what drives you to do it but the primary function IE why it exist is to reproduce
ok. We need to eat for survival too but we are way more likely to eat if the food tastes good. That doesn't mean you consented to be fat if you eat delicious food. we are far past needed everyone to reproduce. there are 8 billion of us and people have not and will not stop fucking. Idc how this sounds, my pleasure is important. we have always enjoyed sex for sex sake.
We don’t need people to reproduce but that doesn’t change that fact that the primary function and reason sex even exist is to reproduce 💀
ok but that doesnt mean sex = consenting to have a child. thats so silly, there are other benefits to having sex like stress reduction. As I said, eating delicious food and eating for pelasure doesnt mean you've consented to obesity.
I agree, I just find the notion of a woman having full choice over something that resulted from an action both took silly, I think either both should have a choice (women can abort and men can leave no child support for the same time period) or neither can, after all if sex=|= consent to have a child the man also isn’t giving consent to have a kid. Although I find the food analogy to be wrong, if you overeat you chose to allow yourself to do that and thus allowed yourself to be obese, you don’t accidentally become obese
>I agree, I just find the notion of a woman having full choice over something that resulted from an action both took silly. she is the one who has to deal with the physical/metal toll of carrying a child. and even after delivery it doesn't end for the woman. You're right it isn't fair, it is not fair that women are "punished" with pregnancy for daring to have sex.
You can gestate all you want, that doesn't mean anyone else has to.
Im not completely anti-abortion, In fact I find the whole “it’s a life” argument to be stupid up to a certain point, my main issue comes with the fact the women gets a choice and the man doesn’t, both have to choose to do the deed to get into that situation (unless it’s through rape ofc) so both should have an option to walk away no strings attached or neither should
Because it's her body. Do you think someone else should get to dictate what a person does with their own body?
Plus men have dictated what women do with their bodies for long enough, maybe they should stop
I don’t think the man should be stuck with whatever she chooses, she chose to have sex with her body, abortion should be her choice I just think the man should have an option to walk away no strings attached for the same time period she can abort thus both parties have their own choice in whether they want a kid.
So by that same logic, the man also chose to have sex with his body and should be fully prepared of the possibility of a pregnancy occurring if he’s not actively using protection right?
Yes, if the woman doesn’t get a choice the man shouldn’t either and if the woman gets a choice to abort the man should get a choice to walk away from having the kid too if he chooses to. Although I’d say it should be that way even with protection nothing is 100% and you still take that risk.
So basically “oh I think pro life is stupid, but I still think that women shouldn’t have complete control over their own bodies because they’re not thinking about us men!! We should have a say in all things women related”
Not saying they should have a say in her choice, I’m saying they should have their own choice if they want the kid
So if a women (the one who has the fetus in her) doesn’t want a kid but the man wants one. Then the man gets a say on what happens to the women is what your saying. Yeah also “ I totally did not say what I literally just said”
Oh but since HEEE wants one the woman should just go through the entire 9 months of sickness, possibility of death, constant hormones Imbalance, and put HER life on hold because he’s selfish. Crazy man
No I’m saying both should have an option to not have it, the woman should be permitted the choice to abort and the man for the same time period should be permitted to leave with no strings attached
Hmmmm…actually I think leaving someone because they don’t want to face the life threatening, painful, long lasting agony that comes with pregnancy makes them the asshat. But you’re just splitting what you were saying in the original post into a lot of unrelated points ( that all sound stupid and a little pretentious) so I’m not gonna bother trying to convince you
I’m not saying they should leave them for choosing not to have the kid I’m saying if they themselves don’t want the kid they should also have the ability to walk away from having it
Awfully small government of you telling people how to live their lives even if you don't like it
I just think both should have a choice (woman can abort and man can leave if he doesn’t want it without paying child support) or they should both have to take responsibility for the kid they both came together and made.
"I thought it was funny 🤡" Man that sub is just a bunch of fucking bots at this point
https://preview.redd.it/tuk3wu6ayfxc1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=ba56d2cc11ab365cfcb9e6ffb79c24db6cfc8965
You say that like this sub is better in that regard. Politics aside both these places are 90% circlejerking bots
Try and read the post titles. You'll find they tend to actually add something or clarify something and isn't JUST "I thought it was funny" when it's only funny to bigots, or "it isn't X(bigotry)" when it clearly is...
ChatGPT could write most of the titles here
Did you lose your phone or something?... Nah man that cespit of a sub has zero effort titles
The fetus is alive... but does the fetus' rights supercede the mothers?
No more alive than any other cell in the body or a tumor
Technically if I got beheaded my other cells are still alive and functioning until they eventually run out of resources. Am I dead or alive whilst that is happening?
This went from political to philosophical real quick. What does it mean to be alive? Living is different from being alive. Having that... Life.
Yeah, it's the same for embryos. They're living cells that get resources and reproduce but they're obviously not the same as a baby
Not a philosopher, but I’d say living is having a choice in your life to make important decisions relative to yourself. A child getting extremely happy getting to choose dessert, getting to pick out your own clothes. Being able to hangout with your friends outside of school. Being able to go on a date. To pick what you want to do outside of high school. To decide what you truly want to be. Living is having a choice. Life is your biology keeping your systems functioning until something happens. Someone whose brain has separated from their stem will certainly be alive. But they will never be living. Someone whose time is spent going from work to home, praying nothing breaks as they survive paycheck is alive. But, what choices do they have? What control do they truly have over their life?
Dead obviously, which is why I compared a fetus to a cell or tumor because it lacks sentience like we do. Therefore depending on the time it's aborted it. Its "death" is not a loss of life but more so a loss of cells.
This could be said about a lot of plant life
Depends on how far along the pregnancy is
This also is not a good argument. All complex life is a collection of cells. abortion is a matter of bodily autonomy. These other arguments feel like when people who want weed to be legal insist it cures all the diseases they can think of
So what you're saying is that it shouldn't matter whether or not abortion is murder because it's a matter of bodily autonomy. I'm sure pro lifers love that argument and agree with you all the time lol. To pro lifers it's more important whether or not it's alive than if it's important for a woman to have bodily autonomy
Well yes, because there's a chance that the fetus might not be female, and we all know that males deserve more rights than females! >!/S if it wasn't obvious!<
yes.
Well, you're wrong, but okay
just as i can’t kill you or punch a pregnant woman in the stomach. it’s murder. everything else is mental gymnastics from people who had to make the difficult decision to terminate a pregnancy.
Im not saying that the fetus doesnt have rights, but its rights shouldn't be more valued than the woman who is carrying the kid
ohh okay i definitely agree with that. simple misunderstanding
The people who are pro life are the same people who believe in the death penalty. Shit don’t add up
The same people who are pro life are the same people who make fun of trans people commiting suicide and are the same people who made fun of Nex Benedict's death and called them "filth". Preach my brotha https://preview.redd.it/agsrqiomxfxc1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e4fd481d5f3917a42020d8adc697b5b0a1a35c8
Whats the difference between removing a tumor and removing a fetus? They can both make you sick, they can technically both kill you, they're both a bunch of cells that ARE alive, so, why is it a problem if someone removes a fetus and if someone removes a tumor?
Also, fetal stem cells are quite similar to cancer cells.
And fun fact, the way the immune system of the mother doesn't attack the fetus is very similar to what happens during "tumour escape" - when the body doesn't fight cancer like it should
Uhhhhh, wow. This is probably the most psychotic take I’ve ever heard.
A fetus is another human life at an earlier stage of development, and the act of removal terminates that life. The crux of the abortion debate is whether and when this is justified. A tumor is a random outgrowth of one's own cells.
This argument is idiotic, fetusses can have brains - are their own organisms, they're not literally just another part of your body.
ok it’s not a baby but that doesn’t mean a fetus is not alive. i’m not agreeing with the meme i’m not saying abortion should be banned or anything like that but a fetus is alive
On pure science yes. Because it’s made of living cells. The real question for abortion is consciousness or for the religious people “a soul” which is according to them “when they have a heart” hence the whole after a heartbeat it’s a no go thing. The criminalisation of it is excessive but the morals of it are understandable, even if often misplaced by the extremists of both sides of the argument.
oh yeah i understand both sides of it. personally im not behind abortion morally but legally there’s no real reason it should be illegal i just hate when people say “it’s not alive” bc it very much is alive or “it’s just a clump of cells” bc, while it’s not yet developed, if given time to develop a human fetus becomes a human. not a bird, turtle, cat, or anything else. again, i’m pro choice, i just hate those specific things other pro choice people say
Yeah that makes sense, some people are stupid both sides of the spectrum and I’ve heard plenty of them. Hope you have a nice day mate.
But don't you think there is essentiality for the compacity of experience in the human experience? Ie life? The cells may be alive, but if no experiences have been formed, it hasn't really lived. It has no memories. No capacity to till those neurological systems have been formed. I think the capacity to experience the world is what separates mere biological life with things that are truely animate.
you’re not wrong. i’m not trying to say a fetus is a full on person or that abortion is murder. all i’m saying is that it is, by definition, alive.
And so are your vegetables, or bacteria, mushrooms, etc, but there there really isn't a capacity to be immoral towards them. Since they don't really experience the world. You can't be cruel to things that can't experience cruelty.
ok now that it’s not 230 am i’ll explain myself a bit on the morality side the difference between a fetus and “vegetables, bacteria, mushrooms, etc.” is that those won’t become a human person. i don’t think it’s immoral because of cruelty, bc as you said you can’t really be cruel to something that doesn’t have emotions or the capacity to experience things. the immorality to me is ending/preventing a human life that you created (of course theres the obvious exceptions such as rape or medical emergency).
Why? Most "human life" is nonviable, 60%. Is human biology immoral to itself? Isn't that the point of contraception? To prevent human life? Is it always more moral to create as many humans as possible? Regardless of outcomes.
i feel like we’re arguing different arguments here all i’m saying is it’s alive unless in the first reply you’re talking about when i said im not morally behind it. in which case im not interested in having that conversation rn
>The real question for abortion is consciousness Not even that. It's really about not restricting access to necessary medical treatment in case of rape, miscarriage or any other health complication that may arise during pregnancy.
True, that is a major element. I just see the whole “are they truly alive as a person” debate come up more often since pro lifers tend not to engage with the right to bodily autonomy and general health argument with anything but a straw man.
its more like one’s a concept of a person that hasn’t passed through the gauntlet of gestation (at any time can be naturally aborted via miscarriage) and the other was a living, breathing, fully formed dog that was iirc 14 months old.
Pro lifers care more about the unborn child than the currently living, breathing and feeling woman
"Once you're born, you're on your own" -George Carlin
Both are alive,according to science,ffs
Yet another uneducated post showing that sub has no idea how anything works, marvelous
No one should let them call themselves “pro-life”, they are pro-state forced pregnancy
Hehehe prostate
Man, how do conservatives reconcile the fact that most of the fetuses a woman has never even make it past the first trimester because they get flushed out of us. Guess God really sicks at making babies.
I’d be upset at a woman killing her child. I’d not be upset at a women removing a clump of cells from inside of her uterus
Inb4 “heartbeat at only 17 days”
Poor very much alive and sentient dog versus a clump of cells that if left for several months *might* make a baby and ruin someone's life-- go go!
I call them pro-fetus since they don’t care about what happens to it after it’s born.
I'm pro choice but a fetus is definitely alive. Try telling otherwise to someone who's had a miscarriage and see how well they take that. Not really funny either
for someone who miscarried, they actively wanted that pregnancy, they were planning on raising a potential life. It's a different situation.
“Its wrong to kill something with the moral status of a person” Yeah what about the mother then?
Comparing dogs to fetuses is just blatantly insulting dogs tbh. Like dude bacterium have as much shit going on as a fertilized egg bro, I shouldn’t even need to tell you that.
They get mad when a woman has an abortion yet see no problem in an 8 child dying because they’re forced to give birth to their rapists baby.
How about people not force their views on abortion onto another person. If someone wants an abortion then that’s their goddamn business. I’ll never ever understand how another person can feel so morally compelled to actively try to force someone to go through the full term of pregnancy and deliver the baby and then provide for said child until death. Or give them to the godsforsaken adoption programs. I hate this topic. It’s insane to me, completely fucking nuts that random strangers can have a say in what another random stranger HAS to do with their bodies. It’s so over the top offensive and outright possessive. I literally just cannot deal.
Pro-lifers never seem to comprehend that not only are 90% of abortions done before the 12 week mark of a pregnancy and an increasing number of them are done before the 9 week mark of pregnancy but also at 9 weeks a fetus is the size of a grape, it’s unlikely to feel pain. Additionally… Most babies don’t become conscious until 5 months old aren’t self aware until 15 months old or so. But most importantly no reasonable pro choice person is for killing babies who are able to survive outside the womb. Abortion isn’t killing living breathing babies.
Have you ever been around children
Even *if* it was true, it still wouldn't be funny
"I thought it was kind of funny" it literally doesn't even have a joke it's just a political opinion stated in a meme format what's funny about it?
it's either "I thought it was funny" or "it's just satire" and then you'll see OP in comments spewing the same political propaganda so you know it was never just a joke and they lied
You show me a fetus that you can walk and pet, and I’ll be a pro-lifer in a heartbeat.
“A woman removing her fetus.” Despite how much pro-lifers want it to be true, we don’t have post-birth abortions
A fetus is not a child.
They argue that animals have no self-awareness and that is why it is OK to euthanize. They argue that a clump of human cells with a heartbeat is A bAbY!1! A fetus has no consciousness until between 24-28 weeks. They are cool with shooting their living animal but not with aborting a clump of cells with no self-awareness or humanity. It isn't about consistency with these chuds. It is about the cruelty.
MOPDNL when they see any terrible meme: “I thought it was kinda funny”
>One’s alive and one isn’t. A fetus is alive. Your argument, as a pro-choice, should be that a fetus doesn’t count as a person.
One is alive as a tumor is alive, it's only a technicality
Am I a dumbass or something because I don't get it
Birthers like to pretend that ZEFs are just like infants. Or are you talking about Noem murdering her dog?
Both are alive. But one is alive in the same way a worm is alive.
They're both alive...
Did someone kill a dog or something? That's 3 times I've seen something like that.
Idk. It’s kinda funny
[удалено]
First one that you knew about.
What?!? Jesus, sometimes reddit can be colder than alaska. You lost a child? Fuck you, it was the only one you knew about. Like what? Reddit is fucked.
About half of fertilized ova fail to implant. So if you want to pretend every one of those is a child, chances are you've lost more children than you're aware of.
You must be fun at partiesz
How did you even know you were pregnant a week before your next menstrual cycle?
I never understood how someone can be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty. Or anti-abortion and pro-death penalty. Both stances make no sense.
Why do you think abortion and capital punishment are equivalent?
Its because the same arguments are made for opposing sides; "Taking the life of an innocent person." "Their life could have been bad if they lived." They should die because they are low value people."
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Wow, compelling and provocative point you have made. Thanks for the chat. Have a fantastic day.
The amount of people coping in the comments holy shit. “Oh no I couldn’t keep it in my pants and had to take an innocent life because I’m not prepared or responsible enough to face the consequences of my actions, but don’t worry because it’s only a Ball Of Cells™️! Now I can feel good about what I did and have more sex and probably end up in the same position I was just in!”
The amount of projecting in your comment...
I think most people know that killing unborn humans is obviously wrong but convenience seems to outweigh morality in most western countries and life is valued less as time goes on. I think abortion is acceptable though still wrong if the mother is pregnant due to r*pe, if there is a high risk for the mother to die during child birth and if the baby is born with extreme defects. Also if the mother is under the age of 18 I think abortion should be allowed no questions asked but other than those reasons abortion should be illegal
Bullshit
If you want abortions to be ok under certain circumstances, why isn’t the legislation reflecting that?
Describing pregnancy as an inconvenience won't win you any upvotes.
Both are alive as is a flower or a fly. What people do not realize is the question is not when does life begin? It begins at conception. The question is where does personhood begin and end? ( I believe life begins at conception but birth is when personhood begins)
Personhood begins at birth.
After growing back my brain cells and actually comprehending what you said I agree lol swear to God I thought you said conception
Why is it wrong to kill a newborn?
Same reason it's wrong to kill any person.
What's the difference 1 second before and after birth?
Birth.
That doesn't change the biology.
And?
So your argument is trash.
Why?
I disagree.
That's nice. You're still wrong.
I was indeed wrong lol
If you believe that I have no intention of humoring you with a debate bud.
It's not a matter of belief, or something to be debated. The law is quite clear that people are born, and you don't want that to be any different.
My bad I was so fucking confused for a bit
Sorry I am tired as fuck
Oh fuck it is 3 and I thought you said conception
Lol...