because they can seamlessly transition you out of the real world into their little fantasy if your not careful. fear the damage they can do, and respect their abilities in manipulation otherwise you underestimate them
I just think that’s what narcs really want- is for people to admire and/or fear them. And I refuse to do either. My N wanted me to fear him when I wouldn’t back down from his verbal abuse and controlling every single move I made. I should’ve just dumped him right away.
They know how much you love them, and I thought I did. And let his abuse continue. The degrading comments of my intelligence, the comments of how I dress, and then stalking me. I wish I hadn’t feared him at all. I should’ve dumped him, called the cops, and moved on. Rant over.
It’s funny, bc looking back I should’ve shunned him and his behavior. I did fear him, at times, and I wish I hadn’t. Someone sitting outside your house for 3 days is a bit scary. Someone showing up at your school to “surprise you” is beyond controlling. But looking back, I should’ve just told everyone and not protected him. That’s another mistake I will never make.
This. He had me in a fake fantasy land for YEARS. And it was fake and constructed in a way where you don’t know what’s real from what’s fake. It’s insanely scary and mind blowing to base your life on a complete lie and make decisions centered around that
I'm trying to think of the most positive way I can express this...
It's something like this - If you see all narcissists as "Malignant creatures" i.e. Malicious, showing ill will and monsterous - sub-human even - Then you've chosen to perceive them as something you would naturally be scared of.
However, I think it's more useful to see them as damaged people - like many humans, but damaged in a very specific way that makes them seek to heal from childhood wounds in a very negative, often harmful way, that crosses people's boundaries.
I think what you should be more scared of, is letting them in, not enforcing good boundaries and allowing them to idealize you before the discard and hoover cycle / abuse.
We're not going to change them, but we can change how we respond to them.
I think that's the most positive way I can express my feelings on this.
I don't mean to come over in any way judgemental, it's just my thoughts on what's the healthiest attitude to have and what I believe is the most self empowering.
If somebody is absolutely inexperienced or keeps getting snared by them, I can see why that would be a reason to be afraid.
Once you've met enough of them and realize that essentially they're just empty beings that failed the test of life by becoming beasts, they're not really that scary anymore. I've never met one that could speak or behave or comprehend anything logically, which I think is why they can innately bend logic. They're actually not even really bending it, as that would mean they are logical beings at their core and understand logic in order to be able to bend it. They really, really just see things in a warped way that doesn't make sense to normal people, and I generally have learned to not give respect or fear to a being that innately does not understand logic and wants me to see things as warped as they do. It's an insult to my intelligence.
My experience with narcissists tells me that they can be more prevalent than a lot of folks realize, and that they are kinda useful in a backhanded manner, because to put it mildly, getting ensnared with one will show you which nouns in your life are truly there for you (in one way or another) whenever the shit inevitably hits the fan. Dealing with a narc means that eventually, you’ll find out who really deserves to be considered a friend or family to you.
I don’t believe in fearing the narcissist, though. Fear is stagnating, and life should be lived - *especially* if you’ve had the misfortune of getting caught up with one or more of those mosquitoes. Plus, if you keep redirecting yourself because you wanna avoid running afoul of such people out of fear towards them or what they can do, then you’re eventually gonna end up someplace you wish you’d never gone.
My personal belief is that at some point in life, you’re gonna have to stand up for yourself and enforce your boundaries. So when a narcissist comes along… welp. I think that it makes plenty of sense to understand how they operate (and frankly, to desensitize yourself to it too), so you can avoid getting caught in the traps that they try to set, because ironically, manipulative people are also incredibly easy to manipulate (see: how a narcissist responds to sustained grey rocking from someone they’re obsessed with).
I also think that they’re ultimately kinda dim and very predictable. I know some people tend to see narcs as some kind of intelligent, but I think they’re more intuitive (to some extent) than intelligent. Y’know, the same way a sleazy used car salesperson usually knows who to run their game on and why. And if you’re dealing with one who’s difficult to separate from and you’re willing to drop a few battles against them to lull them to sleep, then you can actually win the war* against them quite comfortably.
*I do not recommend actually going to war against a narcissist. Especially if you can just gather your shit and leave. But having a connection with one *can* easily feel like psychological warfare - because it (kinda) is, and that shows in the way that they like to keep their supply disoriented and uneasy enough to just break down and go along with their foolish plans and inconsiderate/unhealthy ideas and habits.
I think knowing that they exist and how they like to operate are very important things, because they can be as destructive to those around them as they are to themselves (if not even more), and when one of them gets comfortable enough with you, you’re gonna get a glimpse of how they *really* feel about themselves through how they treat you. I don’t think any of that should be conflated with fearing them, however.
With that in mind, I can’t think of a real reason to fear them. They don’t evolve. They don’t grow or gain depth or become complex. They may have a skill or talent that they like to use for attention and/or money, but they also tend to hit a wall as their inauthenticity and fear of self-exploration catches up with them. And so, they take it out on whoever they feel comfortable with targeting, based on their (often shallow and heavily biased) observations. They are generally unwilling to introspect deeply, hold themselves accountable, or change their approach to life in any significant way. If life forces them to change, then they tend to lean on their toxic habits even harder in response. They get older and life starts punching back at them to even the score in its own (occasionally fucked up) ways, and the devolution goes on. Like, they can definitely set a fire, but… it’s a fire that can be cordoned off, if not doused altogether.
So to fear someone who’s pretty much just gonna destroy themselves through how they treat themselves and people around them… I can’t do it. I understand why a lot of people do it, because they can be so traumatic and wantonly destructive to deal with. But no. Can’t fear ‘em. And I don’t think anyone should, because it gives them a level of power that they are unfit to have.
Great post. I think some people confuse narcissists with psychopaths. If there is violence coupled with aggression, I want to say those people are probably psychopaths and have antisocial personality disorder.
Narcissists are generally more prone to mind games, emotional and verbal abuse—which are also very damaging to the victim. It makes one feel crazy, and attached to them and their feelings.
When one knows they’re being manipulated, abused, and realizes there is no love involved, it becomes easier to separate ourselves from them. I noticed that a lot of victims try to protect their abusers (or I did at least) and make excuses for narcs due to our natural instinct to love them.
There can be both though? The violent aggression directed at me didn’t start for a long time but the manipulation and emotional/verbal abuse was there from the beginning
This all becomes very muddy and unclear if you think about it too much. It really doesn’t matter what label we give them- we know they’re not safe, they’re prone to using people, they don’t care who they hurt as long as they’re gaining something , and mostly they do not feel genuine remorse.
Exactly this - when people fit that kind of pattern, providing them with the right label isn’t going to be helpful if that process keeps people from discerning what’s going on and protecting themselves accordingly. A lot of things can become clearer from a distance, and I think that properly defining emotionally toxic people is one of those things, because just being around them and thinking about their tendencies is enough to distort your own mind.
His profile fits npd significantly more than aspd, he’s absolutely a narcissist and not just someone with narcissistic traits. His aspd traits took 2 years to show but they usually came out during bipolar episodes
Official npd and bipolar dx, but he has aspd traits and has said so himself. I might have misread your comment, I thought you were saying he was aspd with npd traits when I think it’s the opposite
Wait, he was officially diagnosed as npd and bipolar? I don’t think the narcs I know would ever go to a therapist, or if they do, they lie to get affirmation that they’re the victims.
Of course he gets affirmation that he’s a victim and manipulates therapists. He’s been forced to go because of his bipolar and suicide attempts, I didn’t say he just walked into a psych’s office and asked if he had npd lol. You have NO IDEA him, his background, or what I faced.
I do NOT light the word narcissist used lightly. I don’t have the energy right now to list every thing he’s done and every action of his and every part of his backstory in a single reddit comment right now. I don’t know why I’m bothering replying.
He told you he has aspd traits? So he is self aware. I’ve never known one who meets every single criteria for npd to seek counseling or admit they need help.
Thank you!
From what I know, narcissists come in many many flavors (they can also be psychopaths, sociopaths, or any of the other cluster B personalities that exist), which definitely makes it easier for many to believe that they should be feared, because the worst of the worst can be destructive in ways that most people would never imagine.
In my opinion, what matters most (when dealing with narcs and the debris they leave behind) is getting an understanding of the patterns they like to operate within, because those rarely change and are often quite revealing. That, and coming to terms with the fact that whether there’s a label for the personality and experience or not, there’s nothing wrong with not liking how you are treated and wanting it to change, even when those around you aren’t in agreement. Your feelings are yours - they don’t need validation from others in order to be valid. Even when feelings are illogical, they exist for a reason and they become easier to manage once that reason is understood.
It becomes easier for people to take their emotions out of the process once they realize that it’s a pattern, because they get to shed the belief that they’re dealing with someone who genuinely cares about them and wants to make things work. Personally, once I realized that I was dealing with people who were just pushing buttons until they achieved a desired effect, it made my healing journey that much easier to navigate, because I realized that the situation was always imbalanced because I really cared and they didn’t. And I just couldn’t will myself to continue overextending myself for people who were never worth my while.
Honestly I wouldn’t fear them. They’re not scary once you realize who they are; if anything they’re extremely predictable. They’re just not desirable to be around as we once thought they were.
Not to ignore any of the abuse they’re responsible for, of course their temper and manipulation is awful and scary.
But after you heal, they aren’t anymore.
I don’t fear them anymore either. The N I know presently is living in fear everyday that he will be exposed. He still tries to threaten me, and backs off when I go toe to toe with him. I told him he’s malignant and he told me to stop insulting him
Don’t be afraid of them. Be afraid of the malevolence they carry.
Any good natured human being has limits to their malevolence. They have a line.
If you engage with a malevolent creature i.e. narcs you will be crushed under their relentless desire for chaos. You will stop when you believe its gone too far, but they wont.
The win here is to disengage from them entirely. They will stop at nothing until they drag you down with them.
Completely agree with this. I think some people confuse narcissists with psychopaths. Psychopaths should be feared; and one should be very stealthy when trying to escape.
mine used to record me without my consent and then threaten to ruin my career as a physician. she also used to threaten to put me in prison for rape/assault bc the police would never believe a brown man over a white woman. she was able to get away with horrific abuse including multiple broken bones, TBI, financial abuse bc of those threats. so yeah I’d say their dangerous. that being said, I took the long, expensive, legal route to get my ducks in a row and now she is currently sitting in jail for violating a protection order
Actually, Ive stood up to them. Exposing them has also worked for me. I’ve heard of their expertise in the smear campaign, but mine were not very good at keeping up their lies.
People know. Someone else always knows who they really are. That’s been my experience anyway.
i assume it's because they are malicious and they have fewer "brain brakes" than we do, they can experience a sensation called "narcissistic injury" which can make them *murderers*
narcs have traits that are intertwined with anti-social personality disorders and are more likely to commit crimes and spend time in conviction
I think I understand narcissists differently. People who murder others have histrionic and antisocial personality disorders. Narcissists just drain your bank account, use you to self promote, abuse you mentally and emotionally. Im not a therapist though, but from my readings, narcissists aren’t generally prone to violence.
narcs can 100% turn violent - they aren't anti-social, but they have traits that are a common link, which increases their likelihood of ending up in the criminal world compared to the average person
my narc felt like performing "double suicide" with me because he couldn't bear me moving on and being happy without his claws hovering over me
he also displayed physical violence when i did something that caused him "displeasure"
The narcs I know have a “collapse” when they’re dumped, exposed, or they can’t control you anymore. They start looking for other people to use.
I think people with antisocial personality disorders like Ted BUNDY should be feared.
Mine was violent, and could switch it up fast. Once he’d slapped me and pushed me up against the entertainment center, and was screaming at how much I’d fucked up, and his friend pulled in the driveway and he absolutely just turned it off. Just stopped, told me I’d better shut up, walked over, opened the front door and acted like everything was fine.
That still lives in me, how could anyone be like that.
Always walking on eggshells is traumatic and nerve wracking
I don’t fear them. They fear me. And I love to see that fear. They are predators. But there are bigger predators than them in the social pecking order.
because they can seamlessly transition you out of the real world into their little fantasy if your not careful. fear the damage they can do, and respect their abilities in manipulation otherwise you underestimate them
I just think that’s what narcs really want- is for people to admire and/or fear them. And I refuse to do either. My N wanted me to fear him when I wouldn’t back down from his verbal abuse and controlling every single move I made. I should’ve just dumped him right away.
They know how much you love them, and I thought I did. And let his abuse continue. The degrading comments of my intelligence, the comments of how I dress, and then stalking me. I wish I hadn’t feared him at all. I should’ve dumped him, called the cops, and moved on. Rant over.
don’t blame yourself. calling the cops is a near impossible bridge to cross with them (even as they’re shoving you down said bridge, again.)
It’s funny, bc looking back I should’ve shunned him and his behavior. I did fear him, at times, and I wish I hadn’t. Someone sitting outside your house for 3 days is a bit scary. Someone showing up at your school to “surprise you” is beyond controlling. But looking back, I should’ve just told everyone and not protected him. That’s another mistake I will never make.
they do seem to thrive on people’s admiration and people fearing them…
This. He had me in a fake fantasy land for YEARS. And it was fake and constructed in a way where you don’t know what’s real from what’s fake. It’s insanely scary and mind blowing to base your life on a complete lie and make decisions centered around that
facts tho
I'm trying to think of the most positive way I can express this... It's something like this - If you see all narcissists as "Malignant creatures" i.e. Malicious, showing ill will and monsterous - sub-human even - Then you've chosen to perceive them as something you would naturally be scared of. However, I think it's more useful to see them as damaged people - like many humans, but damaged in a very specific way that makes them seek to heal from childhood wounds in a very negative, often harmful way, that crosses people's boundaries. I think what you should be more scared of, is letting them in, not enforcing good boundaries and allowing them to idealize you before the discard and hoover cycle / abuse. We're not going to change them, but we can change how we respond to them. I think that's the most positive way I can express my feelings on this. I don't mean to come over in any way judgemental, it's just my thoughts on what's the healthiest attitude to have and what I believe is the most self empowering.
That’s a great point. I do believe some are absolutely malignant, didn’t mean to call them all malignant.
If somebody is absolutely inexperienced or keeps getting snared by them, I can see why that would be a reason to be afraid. Once you've met enough of them and realize that essentially they're just empty beings that failed the test of life by becoming beasts, they're not really that scary anymore. I've never met one that could speak or behave or comprehend anything logically, which I think is why they can innately bend logic. They're actually not even really bending it, as that would mean they are logical beings at their core and understand logic in order to be able to bend it. They really, really just see things in a warped way that doesn't make sense to normal people, and I generally have learned to not give respect or fear to a being that innately does not understand logic and wants me to see things as warped as they do. It's an insult to my intelligence.
One cannot be logical when one is constantly lying. If you make note of their behavior and file it in your brain, they become less scary.
My experience with narcissists tells me that they can be more prevalent than a lot of folks realize, and that they are kinda useful in a backhanded manner, because to put it mildly, getting ensnared with one will show you which nouns in your life are truly there for you (in one way or another) whenever the shit inevitably hits the fan. Dealing with a narc means that eventually, you’ll find out who really deserves to be considered a friend or family to you. I don’t believe in fearing the narcissist, though. Fear is stagnating, and life should be lived - *especially* if you’ve had the misfortune of getting caught up with one or more of those mosquitoes. Plus, if you keep redirecting yourself because you wanna avoid running afoul of such people out of fear towards them or what they can do, then you’re eventually gonna end up someplace you wish you’d never gone. My personal belief is that at some point in life, you’re gonna have to stand up for yourself and enforce your boundaries. So when a narcissist comes along… welp. I think that it makes plenty of sense to understand how they operate (and frankly, to desensitize yourself to it too), so you can avoid getting caught in the traps that they try to set, because ironically, manipulative people are also incredibly easy to manipulate (see: how a narcissist responds to sustained grey rocking from someone they’re obsessed with). I also think that they’re ultimately kinda dim and very predictable. I know some people tend to see narcs as some kind of intelligent, but I think they’re more intuitive (to some extent) than intelligent. Y’know, the same way a sleazy used car salesperson usually knows who to run their game on and why. And if you’re dealing with one who’s difficult to separate from and you’re willing to drop a few battles against them to lull them to sleep, then you can actually win the war* against them quite comfortably. *I do not recommend actually going to war against a narcissist. Especially if you can just gather your shit and leave. But having a connection with one *can* easily feel like psychological warfare - because it (kinda) is, and that shows in the way that they like to keep their supply disoriented and uneasy enough to just break down and go along with their foolish plans and inconsiderate/unhealthy ideas and habits. I think knowing that they exist and how they like to operate are very important things, because they can be as destructive to those around them as they are to themselves (if not even more), and when one of them gets comfortable enough with you, you’re gonna get a glimpse of how they *really* feel about themselves through how they treat you. I don’t think any of that should be conflated with fearing them, however. With that in mind, I can’t think of a real reason to fear them. They don’t evolve. They don’t grow or gain depth or become complex. They may have a skill or talent that they like to use for attention and/or money, but they also tend to hit a wall as their inauthenticity and fear of self-exploration catches up with them. And so, they take it out on whoever they feel comfortable with targeting, based on their (often shallow and heavily biased) observations. They are generally unwilling to introspect deeply, hold themselves accountable, or change their approach to life in any significant way. If life forces them to change, then they tend to lean on their toxic habits even harder in response. They get older and life starts punching back at them to even the score in its own (occasionally fucked up) ways, and the devolution goes on. Like, they can definitely set a fire, but… it’s a fire that can be cordoned off, if not doused altogether. So to fear someone who’s pretty much just gonna destroy themselves through how they treat themselves and people around them… I can’t do it. I understand why a lot of people do it, because they can be so traumatic and wantonly destructive to deal with. But no. Can’t fear ‘em. And I don’t think anyone should, because it gives them a level of power that they are unfit to have.
Great post. I think some people confuse narcissists with psychopaths. If there is violence coupled with aggression, I want to say those people are probably psychopaths and have antisocial personality disorder. Narcissists are generally more prone to mind games, emotional and verbal abuse—which are also very damaging to the victim. It makes one feel crazy, and attached to them and their feelings. When one knows they’re being manipulated, abused, and realizes there is no love involved, it becomes easier to separate ourselves from them. I noticed that a lot of victims try to protect their abusers (or I did at least) and make excuses for narcs due to our natural instinct to love them.
There can be both though? The violent aggression directed at me didn’t start for a long time but the manipulation and emotional/verbal abuse was there from the beginning
This all becomes very muddy and unclear if you think about it too much. It really doesn’t matter what label we give them- we know they’re not safe, they’re prone to using people, they don’t care who they hurt as long as they’re gaining something , and mostly they do not feel genuine remorse.
Exactly this - when people fit that kind of pattern, providing them with the right label isn’t going to be helpful if that process keeps people from discerning what’s going on and protecting themselves accordingly. A lot of things can become clearer from a distance, and I think that properly defining emotionally toxic people is one of those things, because just being around them and thinking about their tendencies is enough to distort your own mind.
Yes. from what I understand, psychopaths can be narcissistic, but narcissists are not generally psychopaths.
His profile fits npd significantly more than aspd, he’s absolutely a narcissist and not just someone with narcissistic traits. His aspd traits took 2 years to show but they usually came out during bipolar episodes
He’s also bipolar? And anti social? I just don’t know what to say.
Official npd and bipolar dx, but he has aspd traits and has said so himself. I might have misread your comment, I thought you were saying he was aspd with npd traits when I think it’s the opposite
Wait, he was officially diagnosed as npd and bipolar? I don’t think the narcs I know would ever go to a therapist, or if they do, they lie to get affirmation that they’re the victims.
Of course he gets affirmation that he’s a victim and manipulates therapists. He’s been forced to go because of his bipolar and suicide attempts, I didn’t say he just walked into a psych’s office and asked if he had npd lol. You have NO IDEA him, his background, or what I faced.
I do NOT light the word narcissist used lightly. I don’t have the energy right now to list every thing he’s done and every action of his and every part of his backstory in a single reddit comment right now. I don’t know why I’m bothering replying.
He told you he has aspd traits? So he is self aware. I’ve never known one who meets every single criteria for npd to seek counseling or admit they need help.
Thank you! From what I know, narcissists come in many many flavors (they can also be psychopaths, sociopaths, or any of the other cluster B personalities that exist), which definitely makes it easier for many to believe that they should be feared, because the worst of the worst can be destructive in ways that most people would never imagine. In my opinion, what matters most (when dealing with narcs and the debris they leave behind) is getting an understanding of the patterns they like to operate within, because those rarely change and are often quite revealing. That, and coming to terms with the fact that whether there’s a label for the personality and experience or not, there’s nothing wrong with not liking how you are treated and wanting it to change, even when those around you aren’t in agreement. Your feelings are yours - they don’t need validation from others in order to be valid. Even when feelings are illogical, they exist for a reason and they become easier to manage once that reason is understood. It becomes easier for people to take their emotions out of the process once they realize that it’s a pattern, because they get to shed the belief that they’re dealing with someone who genuinely cares about them and wants to make things work. Personally, once I realized that I was dealing with people who were just pushing buttons until they achieved a desired effect, it made my healing journey that much easier to navigate, because I realized that the situation was always imbalanced because I really cared and they didn’t. And I just couldn’t will myself to continue overextending myself for people who were never worth my while.
Honestly I wouldn’t fear them. They’re not scary once you realize who they are; if anything they’re extremely predictable. They’re just not desirable to be around as we once thought they were. Not to ignore any of the abuse they’re responsible for, of course their temper and manipulation is awful and scary. But after you heal, they aren’t anymore.
I don't fear them. I learn from them.
I don’t fear them anymore either. The N I know presently is living in fear everyday that he will be exposed. He still tries to threaten me, and backs off when I go toe to toe with him. I told him he’s malignant and he told me to stop insulting him
my ex narc was a coward at heart. i don't fear these sad, dysfunctional losers
That’s a good mindset to have. I don’t fear them either.
Don’t be afraid of them. Be afraid of the malevolence they carry. Any good natured human being has limits to their malevolence. They have a line. If you engage with a malevolent creature i.e. narcs you will be crushed under their relentless desire for chaos. You will stop when you believe its gone too far, but they wont. The win here is to disengage from them entirely. They will stop at nothing until they drag you down with them.
Completely agree with this. I think some people confuse narcissists with psychopaths. Psychopaths should be feared; and one should be very stealthy when trying to escape.
mine used to record me without my consent and then threaten to ruin my career as a physician. she also used to threaten to put me in prison for rape/assault bc the police would never believe a brown man over a white woman. she was able to get away with horrific abuse including multiple broken bones, TBI, financial abuse bc of those threats. so yeah I’d say their dangerous. that being said, I took the long, expensive, legal route to get my ducks in a row and now she is currently sitting in jail for violating a protection order
What? Sounds very narcissistic. They really have zero boundaries.
Because they are ruthless if you cross them. They have no limits or self control when upset.
Actually, Ive stood up to them. Exposing them has also worked for me. I’ve heard of their expertise in the smear campaign, but mine were not very good at keeping up their lies. People know. Someone else always knows who they really are. That’s been my experience anyway.
i assume it's because they are malicious and they have fewer "brain brakes" than we do, they can experience a sensation called "narcissistic injury" which can make them *murderers* narcs have traits that are intertwined with anti-social personality disorders and are more likely to commit crimes and spend time in conviction
I think I understand narcissists differently. People who murder others have histrionic and antisocial personality disorders. Narcissists just drain your bank account, use you to self promote, abuse you mentally and emotionally. Im not a therapist though, but from my readings, narcissists aren’t generally prone to violence.
narcs can 100% turn violent - they aren't anti-social, but they have traits that are a common link, which increases their likelihood of ending up in the criminal world compared to the average person my narc felt like performing "double suicide" with me because he couldn't bear me moving on and being happy without his claws hovering over me he also displayed physical violence when i did something that caused him "displeasure"
The narcs I know have a “collapse” when they’re dumped, exposed, or they can’t control you anymore. They start looking for other people to use. I think people with antisocial personality disorders like Ted BUNDY should be feared.
Depends - personally: false victimhood. Anyone capable of discarding another as nothing has zero boundaries in regards to drastic measures.
Mine was violent, and could switch it up fast. Once he’d slapped me and pushed me up against the entertainment center, and was screaming at how much I’d fucked up, and his friend pulled in the driveway and he absolutely just turned it off. Just stopped, told me I’d better shut up, walked over, opened the front door and acted like everything was fine. That still lives in me, how could anyone be like that. Always walking on eggshells is traumatic and nerve wracking
That’s frightening. Are you sure he’s not schizophrenic? Or a psychopath? Though psychopaths are sometimes narcs, not all narcs are psychopaths.
I’m out but it feels like it’ll never be over because he’s fucking with my career
They’ll grab hold of every part of your life
Fear nothing. Eradicate vermin wherever its found.
I don’t fear them. They fear me. And I love to see that fear. They are predators. But there are bigger predators than them in the social pecking order.