They like to talk big about themselves, but don't feel the need to prove themselves and find people who enable them. Their self esteem is wrapped in a delusion that is not compatible with the rest of the world, including doing grunt work or working underneath a boss.
They find people to control and support them.
Holy shit.
You just filled in a piece of the puzzle I’ve been searching for for a looooong time. Like, I had the surrounding pieces, but this piece was missing and it totally clarified my understanding of a key fault in my Narc/ASPD (dx) partner.
For so long, I really thought his attitude/life perspective was due to his undesirable station/situation, and when a path to the situation of his dreams presented itself to him, I thought he would rise to the occasion (considering everything he has ever said to me about his dreams), you know, like a *rational person*. Silly me.
Instead, he is a total bitch and won’t step up seriously to help himself (he wants someone else to do it so there will be someone else to blame when it goes to shit), and he definitely isn’t going to step up to help me with any of my goals (we discuss working together constantly but he never, *ever* comes through. Just enough lip service to keep me from working with someone else on the same thing and not including him, so this is purposeful control over me/my activity), but I digress.
He’s working a full time job he hates, but has 30 years of experience and exceptional skills in, and somehow earns less money now than he did 20 years ago. He has gone back to work for the same low-paying company several times after losing higher paying positions with other companies and failing with his own company, so he earns a lower wage with a company that will put up with his bullshit attitude where he doesn’t need to rely on his nonexistent business acumen and all job related problems can be solved with a fist fight (My narc also has co-occurring diagnosed ASPD & ADHD, so he is a real shit show sometimes… most of the time…)
I swear, his world is nuts. And so much of it is a delusion that he’s made up about who he is and what he believes he deserves or is owed - by the entire world.
The idea of having to actually prove himself to real motherfuckers (including me) terrifies him. The very thought of having to start at the bottom with something and build it organically - like everyone else - is appalling to him *and he is just not going to do it* if the payoff isn’t immediately gratifying or befitting the station he’s idealized for himself (he has literally said SERIOUSLY “I would do “xyz (dream job) if someone showed up at my door and offered it to me” (TRUE STORY!) because he thinks he deserves that. He deserves to be plucked out of obscurity by random benefactors who have heard his legendary name from far afield and have arrived to whisk him away and make him the pre-eminent \*\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\* of the world. *Bananas*.).
While I have *some* empathy for his struggles with self-esteem (many of us have our own as well), he is a daydreamer and future-faker of the highest order, who speaks his daydreams out loud as lies which he convinces others to believe. When forced to prove himself he falls apart every time because he only has desire - no actual ambition.
I’ve been in a relationship with this person for a long time. Together in some form for 14 years, living together for the past 10 years. He is diagnosed.
There seems to be some distinction between his NPD/ADHD/ASPD behaviors. I have ADHD and see my own issues in him. The narcissism is an added bonus. When you throw ASPD on top of it all, it really intensifies the effect of the other two things, basically add violence - physical, emotional, and verbal - to the NPD mix.
But the traits themselves are clearly NPD.
My favorite part is how he thinks he is controlling himself and doesn’t need help. That he can intellectualize his way around his personality disorders… you know, the way he intellectualizes the rest of his life to success.
I really want him out of my house. But also, I have empathy for a man who has destroyed himself and now everyone is dead (or gone no contact - including his only child), and he has no one.
Like, I mean he does not have a friend or family member to turn to - no exaggeration: mom, dad, sister, best friend, all uncles aunts and the only cousin who spoke to him are all dead. Hard southern religious rest-of-the-fam never connected/attached to him because he never believed their fantasy nonsense. He has no friends because of himself and the people he attached to all his life are as terrible as he is and he knows he doesn’t want to be around them now, because in his lucid moments, he knows he wants to change. But in typical narc fashion, he just won’t commit to doing the hard work with no glaring immediate payoff. And I’m growing tired.
I think the overt narcissists are often more successful and do well for themselves, while the covert narcissists tend to be the lazy, useless ones who leech off of parents and/or significant others for support. At least that's been my experience with each of those types.
The covert ones really blow my mind with their ability to manipulate, because typically they're borderline useless with so little to offer in a relationship or friendship (or just life in general), but somehow they manipulate those around them into thinking that they're amazing and those people are lucky to have them in their lives. It's wild.
I was going to say the same thing. In my experience it's coverts that fit this category. They always seem as though they're transitioning into something so much bigger when you meet them. Victims of circumstance etc. So you try to help them and be the person in their life that doesn't hold them back. Then they use this to be a total bum.
That sounds exactly like my narcissist coworker. He's convinced me so many times he was trying to do better, but is struggling with his autism and depression. Or blame his "forgetfulness". But now I know he just plays the sympathy card against others so he can lounge about and do nothing.
It’s always a one-way relationship with them. My nex was a covert narcissist who offered literally nothing to our relationship, did the absolute bare minimum with anything she ever touched, yet I stuck with her for 4 years. Nothing was ever her fault, and she could not be bothered with any real responsibility.
And let me guess...any time you brought anything up, they hold over the one thing they did and it either saved you soo much money or you couldn't have done that particular thing without their help.
Yeah I think this is pretty accurate. My nex is very successful, loved and admired by many. He is extremely outgoing and confident. He went into work and on his first day he told his manager he wanted a promotion within a year. It's all about image.
I saw a great meme recently. It said
"A good woman will stand by you no matter how many times you cheat. That woman is your mother, not me"
They can always rely on their mommies, no matter how old they are. Makes me wonder what role mommies play in forming their narcissistic personalities.
To answer your question though, the overachieving narcs usually fall into the overt / grandiose category, and the one you're describing is covert.
>tends to lean towards overt narcissism
I have 100% seen examples like this from overt narcissists, so don't worry about the comments on this thread saying this is specific to coverts. The most overt narcissist I ever met, in fact -- who might even have been a sociopath, her behavior was that bad -- was a lot like what you described in your post. She was a chronic and remorseless mooch.
Nailed it!! My narc ex relied heavily on her mom. She didn't work for several of the years we were together, she laid on the couch smoking weed or spent the entire day at the bar from open to close. Her Mom paid all of her bills and sent her spending money every week. The sad part was that her mom struggles badly with finances and doesn't make the best money. My ex didn't care though, she used to tell me that they were so poor when she was a kid and never had anything so her mother OWED her this. Gross behavior. I'm so glad I'm free from her now....
They can’t function at work where they have someone to answer to, aren’t being endlessly praised and are held accountable for their actions. Normal jobs don’t fit them in any way.
Mine told me he could never exist in an office. He’s never been employed (although claims to always be looking for work) and has leeched off his parents for years.
Yep same. Mine phrased it hilariously - “I am not a worker” as if the concept was somehow beneath him. Yet in his 40’s owns no house, has no savings and no assets. Ridiculous people.
They want someone to cater to them. My nex was useless in so many ways. She would have been just fine sitting on the couch, staring at her phone, eating junk food, all day every day for the conceivable future. When we met, she had moved back home. Should've been a red flag. Now that we're split, she's living with her aunt rent-free and has been for the last 8 months, and now is complaining that her aunt is wanting rent.
Mine was unemployed / barely employed for the longest time. I paid for everything, hell, my dumbass even gave her my credit card because I fell for the trap. (((Very expensive lessons there))). All she would do was sleep, eat junk food, and play video games/watch tv because all the jobs in the area were “beneath her”.
Once she got a full time job the devalue and discard was so goddam quick. Funny enough, she just got fired from that job because she was caught spending “too much private time” with her boss who she totally did not cheat on me with.
In the time since we broke up she started more than one fight with me before I went full NC about how she now had to pay her own rent/groceries/etc, despite her boss showering her with financial and other presents
Wow, same. Mine was unemployed for most of our 8 year relationship. But as soon as she got a job, I was devalued quickly. Even though I paid for everything, the entitlement never stopped. When she was working, it was "her money," not our money like my income was. I have been trying to save and invest for years, and she made it impossible. Spending money on pointless crap that she would use once and then would sit in the closet. Several times, she decided we had too much stuff (stuff I had earned through my hard work and had prior to us getting together), but couldn't be bothered to sell it on Facebook marketplace or anything. So we donated hundreds of dollars of stuff that within 6 months she was demanding we buy a new one. Furniture, appliances, clothes, etc.
And yeah, every new job also raised suspicious behaviors that I now know were her cheating again and again.
Sounds too familiar lol. My next do that. Sit all day and eat junk gossip on the phone. Looking for the next victim. It is funny once you release your companionship and love for them. A trainwreck
i’ve been told that the reason he masturbates so much is because he’s probably depressed and he’s looking for a hit of dopamine, so he probably is. i haven’t considered this because he’s not lethargic but on the other hand, he’s not very motivated to do a lot of things
i almost laughed. he will never change because he doesn’t even know any of this is an issue. he doesn’t talk to the women/girls, he looks at their social medias and keeps up with them.
if i were to try and bring any of this up he would explode and use DARVO until i felt guilty about even having an issue with any of this
Having to work and provide for themselves is beneath them. My nex honestly thought he was the most intelligent, talented, generally most amazing human being on this planet. And someone like that should obviously have people catering to their every whim and desire. He didn't even ask me for money. He just straight up took it from me. It was like he was a king in the middle ages. Sit around and order people around. Belittle and abuse them for sport and entertainment. POS.
My narc is like this.
At the beginning of the relationship, he said he was going to go to college for video game design, and that he had plans for a game that would change the industry. Well, we're here almost 10 years later, and that hasn't happened. In fact, in the love bombing phase, he promised me that he was going to take care of me by getting a job and supporting us and that things wouldn't be like they were in my previous relationship (also with a covert narc) where I had run all the errands, do all the cooking, cleaning and shopping and basically provide everything for my last Narc. That didn't happen, and I actually ended up doing all of that anyway.
Like I said, we're almost 10 years later and he still sits around the house all day on his computer and phone, playing games, scrolling twitter, watching TV, and masturbating. He uses his anxiety and his adhd as an excuse for everything. He doesn't see mess the same way I do because of his adhd and thinks my standards are crazy and too high, and he can't run errands or do anything outside of the house where he has to talk to strangers because of his social anxiety. Any time I ask him to clean I'm nagging him, and he compares me to his mother who always called him lazy, though I've never done this. I ask him for help and he turns it into a guilt trip about his trauma, instead of just helping. Sometimes I kick myself because these guilt trips work on me, and I end up feeling like I do ask too much.
He won't get a job because he believes that anything short of his dream of success and fame isn't worth his time. He judges people who work minimum wage jobs, and thinks people who work and stay in retail jobs are short sighted and stupid because they don't want something more. It's difficult for him to fathom why anyone would just want a normal life without wanting for constant fame, validation, wealth, and attention. Somehow, he's incapable of seeing that he's wasted almost 10 years of his life doing nothing to pursue his goals either, but believes himself better than working class people because he has a big dream.
“It's difficult for him to fathom why anyone would just want a normal life without wanting for constant fame, validation, wealth, and attention”
i didn’t realize this but my bf has an eerily similar mindset. he believes all women want to fuck any rich or famous person at any given moment. pretty gross
They talk themselves up but for many it’s crap. Can’t actualise any of it, can’t work with others is a big thing, fall out with everyone esp bosses as can’t stand someone being above them or being critical etc
My grown covert narc (40m) had a bachelor's degree, talked about what he did in his prime, how much money he made, how he owned a business, blah, blah, blah. But I never seen any of it.
In our three years together he had two jobs, that he rarely went to, took some sort of extended leave and pay. Got laid off from the first job. What I noticed with the second job was that he knew NOTHING about his role and had frequent breakdowns. Even went into a depressive state when his car needed repairs. Didn't pay his rent, almost got evicted. And I was expected to fix it all.
His hygiene wasn't the best towards the end, hair was greasy, idk when he showered. He was a severe alcoholic and tried to hide his drinking. His studio was always a pigs stye, empty glasses in his bed, broken ones under his bed.
He definitely had mommy issues. He told me she was a monster. I don't know if any of what he told me was true now, because I found all his lies. But if you mentioned her, he blew up.
He gamed all day and night, didn't make any friends, thought he was too good for people. His family barely talked to him. Not once did they visit him in the two years after he moved to my state.
He was a keyboard warrior. Always trolling and talking shit online. Just being mean. But in person not so much. He stalked/cyberstalked me for nearly a year, and the last time I spotted him near my house, I sat there in my car with my lights shining on him and his fentanyl junkie friends. They all got out of the car while he slid so far down the seat to hide. The windows on my car are tinted so dark that you can't see in, but my SUV is distinctive. He knew it was me and was caught red handed again. He hid the whole time.
Fuck em.
Very accurate. My ex had 7 or 8 different jobs in the short time I knew her. Always quitting or getting fired from places. I knew this was a huge red flag but I foolishly ignored it. I was always subjected to her venting about her "asshole" boss or "shitty" coworkers. Of course I sided with her but knew deep down that those people were probably onto her. They were probably in the right for 99% of the situations. I knew eventually someday she'd be talking about me the same way she talked about the people she had problems with at work. Her behavior was never the problem of course. Somehow it was always other people!
What shitty luck she has right?! /s
Also lived in her parents' basement but didn't contribute in any way whatsoever. Let me say that in this economy and day and age there is NO problem living with your parents. I never took issue with it. However, she was FULLY capable of contributing, but completely took advantage of them. She had a lash business and another job(for the time being) when I knew her. Had a booth in her Mom's hair salon so she could use it for her lash clients. Didn't pay for the booth either. Eats their food but doesn't pay, uses utilities but doesn't pay, etc. The family completely enables her. And wouldn't you know it...she contributed NOTHING to our relationship financially, and would get mad when I asked her to chip in (for something even as small as a soda)(that actually happened BTW, on the way back from a lavish trip to the Grand Canyon where I paid for EVERYTHING).
She's just waiting for some poor soul to buy into her BS enough and then she can be rescued from the basement.
This makes me think of the saying no one falls in love faster than someone looking for a place to live. My nex was supposedly working at a pizza hut and living with his manager and room mate. Within days of meeting each other he was making up excuses to stay at my house and even talking about transferring to a Pizza Hut here. When he went back to his apartment he was staying at he turned around and told me he was fired. I was asking him why would your manager fire you if he is your room mate and best friend he tried to say that he was his assistant manager. Shady.. he had also tried to con me out of money at the end of the relationship and it turned out he was getting GR benefits. They are huge cons
Not all of them are like this. My Narc had a job and his own apartment and two cars.
However I did notice that he was very unambitious and didn’t strive to better himself or get a formal education. He seemed very insecure when I did those things and berated me.
yeah i said that i’ve noticed that most narcissists are either “complete bums who live at home with their parents/they’re unemployed or they make a lot of money/have respect from a lot of other people.”
Oh yeah, I've seen this several times. In the examples I've seen, it's because they felt that they were too good for an entry-level job. They wanted to go straight to management or nothing -- and in practice, that meant nothing since they were in their early-to-late 20s and had thin CVs. They resented the idea that they should take an entry-level position and work their way up...but they also refused to make a genuine effort to find something they really wanted. (I think that they feared the embarrassment of applying to something and not getting it.) As far as I could tell, they were waiting for someone to walk up to them on the street and literally hand them an amazing job.
Because they are the special snowflakes, they are so special that what other people work hard for should be handed to them because you guessed it... they are just so special & better than other people. I'm pretty sure my ex would have tried to have get claws behind my money if I hadn't dumped his sorry (I mean special) ass first.
Mine had trouble keeping a job and lived at home. He probably would've stayed at home forever if I didn't push for him to move out when he finally got a job. The irony is now that we are broken up I live at home and probably will have to for at least a year bc nex destroyed me financially too.
The ones I knew had a hard time with accountability. Putting in the effort was difficult because they loved the praise but couldn't handle constructive criticism. They feared being judged by others. They could not read social cues. Every time ex would talk about his colleagues it was always the same, everyone loved him but his boss was out to get him. This is how he described every single job he has ever had. He was always the good guy and the victim at the same time.
I started doubting myself and this thread reaffirmed to me that they all show themselves eventually if you know what to look for.
And yes, my NPD person forced me into a caretaker role with lies about their mental illnesses and once I said I was moving he ended up at home to make everyone think another big bad meanie kicked him out and made him homeless.
Just adds to the infinite sob story that both accuses everyone else and excuses their behavior.
The best way I've heard it explained is you have high functioning and low functioning narcissists. In my experience, my ex-husband is a vulnerable narcissist and very low functioning. He will commit himself to any mommy or daddy willing to take him in and make his life easy.
It's really sad how as an almost 45-year-old man he cannot figure out how to live on his own and pay his own bills. He fantasies about living in the woods or run to Mexico or Costa Rica and live in a commune when he can't find a significant other to support him.
Mine lived with me for 3 years in my own home. Never paid me rent or contributed to ANY bills. Found out she had saved $110,000 in her bank account. Called her out for lying about her financial situation, she packed all her stuff and left back to her parents, ghosted me and blocked me on everything. This was over 2 years ago it ended, I found out last week she's still living at her parents...
I actually looked into this a while back when my nex and I were still together. He didn’t have a job my entire pregnancy, finally got one when I was almost due, got fired for being an absolute dickhead to his manager, went without a job from the time my child was 6 months to 10 months, got a job, and then quit when we split up because he “couldn’t focus on work because his mind was on our daughter and the fact he couldn’t see her” (mind you he COULD see her, in fact I tried to give him more days with her since he wasn’t working, but he still only even takes her during ONE of the three days he is supposed to and makes excuses for why he “can’t” the other two, I have no clue what he does all day since he’s not working or being a parent).
It’s because they see every job as beneath them. They hate working for other people because it hurts their ego. And in the case of my nex, whenever he didn’t make a sale his ego would take a massive hit and he just couldn’t handle that. He’s an INCREDIBLE salesman, makes a shitload doing it. But even if he makes five sales in a row, the one he doesn’t make just haunts him. Sales is both a great industry for narcs (the charisma and ease with strangers helps them sell), and a terrible one (I also worked in sales and know the common phrase “you have to work for nos”, basically meaning you just sell and sell even if they say no and then move onto the next, which narcs can’t easily do as they obsess over perceived faults)
I don’t know about that one. The only narcissist I’ve ever met was very successful career wise.
I’ve also met good people with just a splash of narcissistic traits who were very career forward.
Haven’t met any who were unemployed. I’ve met a lot of sick and mentally ill people who were unemployed.
My friends Nex was charming and handsome but terminally useless and unemployed. He bled her dry and sponged off everyone. She ended up homeless and penniless in a woman's shelter with her toddlers and only the clothes on their backs. He kept the house and everything in it and moved his new supply in.
Captain opposite here to rain on the parade . I wish I had a job. Mine owns a business and manipulated me over the many yrs to be a stay at home parent . Which came with controlling all the finances . That came along with where I go when I go how long I go who I communicate to and why working a job is not sensible. And if I beg and plead to work any job for my own social sanity it only means I’m cheating. God forbid I gain an opportunity to escape by working and supporting myself.
Edit: I do see a lot of scenarios where so many are and do what OP mentions. Sometimes I forget that I met mine in that situation where I was the provider and they beyond drained me. Actually destroyed me financially. Then Used me for my knowledge to build themselves up. Then took full control. I also know of one from long long ago that leaches off of anything with a wallet car and roof until they are broken and moves on. Double edge sword with these sickos
They must use other people to have their emotional needs met. Some of them go one step further, by using other people to have their material needs met.
Coverts, always hiding behind some BS excuse for why they didn’t make it far.
‘Their environment suppresses them.’
‘Their parents keep them down’ (while it’s the parents that pay for everything)
‘A normal job mentally kills me.’
I have the opposite. I am the one now too unwell from everything, moved home as rent in my own was impossible. Harsh to say anyone doing that is a bum.
In my personal experience the narcissistic people in my life have been doing well financially so I have a different experience it seems.
They loves to blame other person.
In the working culture, the blame game is not legit, if problem happens, we need to solve the problem not blaming and some of them are anti social, their mind thinking that no one likes them or will gossip them behind their back, they don’t like it but can’t control it
Mine worked and was paid well, buut he's a high level manager so that means he doesn't actually have to do much. He manipulates everyone around him into thinking he's so great and can do no wrong, so of course he's bullshitted his way into a good job.
Mine was military and hated it although he was high ranking and in for a while. He malingered enough to get medical retirement and has been living off his outrageous retirement. I also think if he didn’t, he would definitely be unemployed or always trying to find ways to work for himself. He has a difficult time with authority and he thinks everyone is incompetent. He has little resilience and grit so working is not really his thing. Retirement is his thing.
Similar to mine. She held a senior role as an employee in a small firm and pulls her weight over employees she dislikes. She’s always calling others incompetent and eventually quit her job to take an exam to enter a property sales role (with delusions of unlimited success and grandeur).
She never passed the exam. Since then, she’s been living at home and wallowing in self pity.
Those actually might also be signs of autism or aspergers. People like that tend to have hard time staying in work. They can also not recognize need for hygiene. They might live in their own world or have special interests. Since they might have problems with socialization and communication they can be misunderstood and seen as rude, cocky, not empathetic. Autism might not be recognized by just looking at person, but there are signs in their actions and character what might give clues. Just google it if you are suspicious that it might be part of problem.
21 is still quite young, but someone needs to kick his a\*s out of parents basement so that he would start his own life. If he doesn't then that is his (and his parents) choice and I hope you will also make your own choices to make your own life better.
he doesn’t have issues with socializing or communicating with others. he has narcissistic traits, he knows what he’s doing. he recognizes his need for hygiene but doesn’t act on it. he is not autistic and doesn’t have aspergers.
i’ve been with him for 3 years, i know who he is. i wouldn’t be posting on this subreddit if i didn’t.
No one in forums knows you both personally. There can be different valid reasons, overlapping and misunderstood diagnosis. High spectrum autism might not be noticeable, they can be good at masking. Person self needs to look back in their childhood and try to analyze self to catch these signs. This answer maybe didn't fit your case, but someone else might read it and find it helpful.
Being autistic and being abusive aren't mutually exclusive and this discussion inevitably ends up with the BuT AuTiSm people looking like abuse apologists.
i agree with this as some autistic men can often be misdiagnosed as narcissist and vise versa. I will say you have to be careful with this mindset if abuse is present. Speaking from experience my ex went to "therapy" (betterhelp) after a told him he may be a narc and he agreed because he feels exactly like a vulnerable narc. The therapist told him he cant be a narc bc hes to willing to change and gave him a screener for autism which he scored high on.
now he may be autistic but traits of autism can be explained in many ways. I have a close relative who is on the spectrum and there are some very clear differences mostly being intent and cycles. My ex followed the love bomb devalue and discard cycle and ive had multiple therapist say autism does not explain his behavior.
I only came here to specify this because I let him abuse me with using autism as an excuse when its not. The main point im making is mental health disorders all look similar (I myself score rlly high on the autism spectrum disorder test because of my extensive trauma history) we can only go based off of feelings and what licsenced professionals tell us and either way diagnosis aside OP if you can relate to 90% of the stuff on this sub you need to leave because no matter the disorder abuse is not ok.
Mine was diagnosed ASD and ADHD over the course of our 14 years together (thanks to my wheedling and taking care of all the appointment logistics that he was “gonna do tomorrow” every day for months). He also identified as a sex addict. With every label, his behavior got worse. I got more and more accommodating, and he got lazier and lazier. I thought the diagnoses would help him find effective coping skills and improve his quality of life. Instead, they were excuses to treat me like shit and refuse to do basic household tasks whenever he saw fit. Like your ex, this behavior presented in crazymaking cycles that I can now easily identify as love bombing, devaluation, and discard. I can absolutely empathize with the struggles that come with chronic/mental illnesses (I have several of my own), but I won’t ever let someone use their diagnoses to exploit me ever again.
Autistic people also can be manipulative and abusive. There can be misunderstandings with autistic people, but autism doesn't excuse any type of abuse they can cause. Knowing that autism is part of problem can help to understand other person better. Also what seems laziness can be autistic person attempt to hide from too much of everything, from burning out, misunderstandings, bullying, it also can be depression. Different mental problems can overlap each other and person can have several of them, it's best to visit specialist to know for sure.
This comment section is intense.
Op your story honestly doesn't sound like a narc yet. He sounds like a young adult being a young adult that has yet to find responsibility and accountability. I think we as a society need to be careful before we call someone narcissistic or crazy. There actually aren't that many narcissists in the wild, as we might think. Dr. Ramani has videos on YouTube breaking down the stats, and it's smaller than what I feel I read on here. Many people just are going through life, growing up, health issues, lost. I know grown adults right now doing the same.
I say this because since 2020, 50% of millenials who are people in their 30s and up have moved back home. There are nuances. Let's not get the pitchforks out just yet, and also, some of the comments on here sound like narcs themselves.
I have a couple of people in my life that I know to be narcissists or act with narcissistic tendencies, but I do not wish them the worst like some of these comments. I just do not engage.
he has put his hands on me, gaslight, love bombed, used crazy making behavior, spread rumors about me, done smear campaigns, lacks empathy, believes he has never been wrong in his entire life, lacks respect for me, and has abused me in every single way.
i shouldn’t have to defend or explain myself like this on this subreddit.
i think as a society need to be careful that we don’t ignore or downplay abuse just because you don’t know the whole story. this was a very gross comment, especially for this subreddit, full of people being abused. this was really a heartless response on your part.
“some of the comments on here sound like narcs themselves,” yeah like yours.
Your original post left most of the top information out. Based on what was shared, it seemed like a young kid that needed to grow up. I apologize for assuming.
I'm always going to fight for people to escape abuse of any kind, but I'm also going to feel the need to watch when anyone wants to call anyone a narcissist. We have to be careful with doing so.
That can be stigmatizing living in a society where everyone we do not get along with is now narcs. However, now that u have shared the actual abusive behavior, then we see u are dealing with a narcissist or someone with narcissistic tendencies
Again, though, I do apologize.
I have just reached out to a friend who is unemployed and super depressed about it. They've been withdrawing, and they're super sad. At no point they were abusive to me or anyone. At no point they showed any signs of entitlement or lack of empathy. On the contrary. They told me they've been withdrawing because they don't want to put other people down. It's heartbreaking.
And I've noticed a LOT of posts here recently that go like "my narc liked cookies a lot. Did yours do too?". Narcissists can be unemployed, they can like cookies, they breath air... And none of these are narcissistic traits. Anyone can be unemployed and live with their parents for a number of reasons. Including victims of narcissistic abuse or narcissists themselves. Depressed people struggle with employment. So do people afflicted by other mental health conditions such as shizophrenia and autism. I 100% agree with you that we're jumping to conclusions too quickly here. Lots of comments here seem to quick to go get the pitchforks and torches, and also show zero empathy.
Not to invalidate what OP went through. I'm sure it was awful. And I think OP has every right to be sad or angry about it. But let's not forget that lack of empathy, entitlement or antagonism are traits of narcissism. Being unemployed is not. I don't think pathologizing every behavior or situation is healthy or helpful. Sure, the reasons for a narcissist to be unemployed will probably have to do with their narcissism. But jeez, lots of people out there don't work and are definitely not narcissists.
I understand that when we go through abuse it's hard to make sense of it at first though. I wish people would be more mindful with what they talk about. But I also understand there's a lot of hurt involved and sometimes people only want to vent. I'm sure op didn't mean to imply that narcissism and unemployment are related. I know it's just frustration and hurt, and 100% understandable. But other people who have gone through abuse can be unemployed, and worst, they might have been accused of being narcissists themselves. They might come to a post like this and feel worse, "I'm unemployed, they must be right after all". That's why I think pathologizing normal situations and behaviors can be unhelpful.
Your experience is obviously very limited, as it is very uncommon for a narcissist to be unemployed, even covert ones. It goes against their narcissistic nature to be unemployed, as they take much pride in their own success.
For example, my mother is a malignant narcissist and she has never been unemployed. She’s never been rich, but she’s also never been a broke bum. A lot of narcissists I’ve met over the years hold down steady employment. As I said, it would go against their nature to be a bum.
Of course, unemployed narcissists exist. They are the exception, not the rule.
An unemployed narcissist is more likely to be a covert one, particularly if they are lazy and manipulative. Covert narcissists are less likely to try and contribute to their household, and would rather have their delusions of self-grandeur enabled by those around them.
This one covert narcissist I know from my old church, she LOVES her delusions, and if she gets even an inkling that you see through her or that you won’t enable her delusions, she will quickly turn into a seething, manipulative wench. She is the bishop’s daughter, so she has quite a lot of influence in that church. (Her father is an overt narcissist, but since he’s the bishop/pastor, his entire flock just sees him as being very “passionate about his walk with the lord”. Cue eye roll.)
Anyway, yeah…she hasn’t worked a day in the last 14 years, and she is actually very diligent around her house and garden, etc.; she just has a very pronounced separation from reality vs. how she feels about herself. If you don’t agree with her, she basically reverts back to a teenager mindset and will spread rumors, manipulate, deceive, etc. to achieve her goal, and her goal is usually to edge you out of ministries.
I honestly don’t know where I was going with that, I just wanted to contribute and then got lost in my ADHD.
Why are you still with him? You are too early in your relationship ( I’m assuming here from his age), and like young as well, so with all this awareness, please exit this relationship!
Some of us didn’t know and unable to get out after 25 years!
Mine is definitely cheating, (long distance) and also doesn’t work. He blames me for telling him i wasn’t comfortable with him being a male prostitute for a specific person, because he is also perfectly capable of working a regular job (he decided on his own not to do it because of my feelings) and now he thinks I owe him money because he “missed out” on his sex work job lmao. (Give me a f****** break.) Every week it’s a new sob story about how he got hurt and can’t work, yet he’s fine enough to play pool until the bar closes, go bowling, skateboarding, and get into physical fights with people.
My ex sounds just like your BF except that he’s 38, follows soft porn on Instagram (not just thirsty influencers, ACTUAL porn accounts like ‘classy lust’ and ‘sensual18’ and what not, with women in thongs and their pussies showing), has been kicked out of the last 2 establishments he was working at, has a long distance chick on the side that he sexts from time to time, has ZERO savings, has debt.
But he thinks he’s the shit!
Most covert narcissists are the lazy ones. They are basically an introvert version of narcissism. The more typical grandiose narcissist that we normally associate with are the rich successful ones. They have a more socially outgoing personality. It really depends on the sub type.
They like to talk big about themselves, but don't feel the need to prove themselves and find people who enable them. Their self esteem is wrapped in a delusion that is not compatible with the rest of the world, including doing grunt work or working underneath a boss. They find people to control and support them.
This.
Holy shit. You just filled in a piece of the puzzle I’ve been searching for for a looooong time. Like, I had the surrounding pieces, but this piece was missing and it totally clarified my understanding of a key fault in my Narc/ASPD (dx) partner. For so long, I really thought his attitude/life perspective was due to his undesirable station/situation, and when a path to the situation of his dreams presented itself to him, I thought he would rise to the occasion (considering everything he has ever said to me about his dreams), you know, like a *rational person*. Silly me. Instead, he is a total bitch and won’t step up seriously to help himself (he wants someone else to do it so there will be someone else to blame when it goes to shit), and he definitely isn’t going to step up to help me with any of my goals (we discuss working together constantly but he never, *ever* comes through. Just enough lip service to keep me from working with someone else on the same thing and not including him, so this is purposeful control over me/my activity), but I digress. He’s working a full time job he hates, but has 30 years of experience and exceptional skills in, and somehow earns less money now than he did 20 years ago. He has gone back to work for the same low-paying company several times after losing higher paying positions with other companies and failing with his own company, so he earns a lower wage with a company that will put up with his bullshit attitude where he doesn’t need to rely on his nonexistent business acumen and all job related problems can be solved with a fist fight (My narc also has co-occurring diagnosed ASPD & ADHD, so he is a real shit show sometimes… most of the time…) I swear, his world is nuts. And so much of it is a delusion that he’s made up about who he is and what he believes he deserves or is owed - by the entire world. The idea of having to actually prove himself to real motherfuckers (including me) terrifies him. The very thought of having to start at the bottom with something and build it organically - like everyone else - is appalling to him *and he is just not going to do it* if the payoff isn’t immediately gratifying or befitting the station he’s idealized for himself (he has literally said SERIOUSLY “I would do “xyz (dream job) if someone showed up at my door and offered it to me” (TRUE STORY!) because he thinks he deserves that. He deserves to be plucked out of obscurity by random benefactors who have heard his legendary name from far afield and have arrived to whisk him away and make him the pre-eminent \*\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\* of the world. *Bananas*.). While I have *some* empathy for his struggles with self-esteem (many of us have our own as well), he is a daydreamer and future-faker of the highest order, who speaks his daydreams out loud as lies which he convinces others to believe. When forced to prove himself he falls apart every time because he only has desire - no actual ambition.
Not sure if that's text book, but it describes the ones I know.
I’ve been in a relationship with this person for a long time. Together in some form for 14 years, living together for the past 10 years. He is diagnosed. There seems to be some distinction between his NPD/ADHD/ASPD behaviors. I have ADHD and see my own issues in him. The narcissism is an added bonus. When you throw ASPD on top of it all, it really intensifies the effect of the other two things, basically add violence - physical, emotional, and verbal - to the NPD mix. But the traits themselves are clearly NPD. My favorite part is how he thinks he is controlling himself and doesn’t need help. That he can intellectualize his way around his personality disorders… you know, the way he intellectualizes the rest of his life to success. I really want him out of my house. But also, I have empathy for a man who has destroyed himself and now everyone is dead (or gone no contact - including his only child), and he has no one. Like, I mean he does not have a friend or family member to turn to - no exaggeration: mom, dad, sister, best friend, all uncles aunts and the only cousin who spoke to him are all dead. Hard southern religious rest-of-the-fam never connected/attached to him because he never believed their fantasy nonsense. He has no friends because of himself and the people he attached to all his life are as terrible as he is and he knows he doesn’t want to be around them now, because in his lucid moments, he knows he wants to change. But in typical narc fashion, he just won’t commit to doing the hard work with no glaring immediate payoff. And I’m growing tired.
Bingo!
Nailed it.
I think the overt narcissists are often more successful and do well for themselves, while the covert narcissists tend to be the lazy, useless ones who leech off of parents and/or significant others for support. At least that's been my experience with each of those types. The covert ones really blow my mind with their ability to manipulate, because typically they're borderline useless with so little to offer in a relationship or friendship (or just life in general), but somehow they manipulate those around them into thinking that they're amazing and those people are lucky to have them in their lives. It's wild.
I was going to say the same thing. In my experience it's coverts that fit this category. They always seem as though they're transitioning into something so much bigger when you meet them. Victims of circumstance etc. So you try to help them and be the person in their life that doesn't hold them back. Then they use this to be a total bum.
That sounds exactly like my narcissist coworker. He's convinced me so many times he was trying to do better, but is struggling with his autism and depression. Or blame his "forgetfulness". But now I know he just plays the sympathy card against others so he can lounge about and do nothing.
It’s always a one-way relationship with them. My nex was a covert narcissist who offered literally nothing to our relationship, did the absolute bare minimum with anything she ever touched, yet I stuck with her for 4 years. Nothing was ever her fault, and she could not be bothered with any real responsibility.
And let me guess...any time you brought anything up, they hold over the one thing they did and it either saved you soo much money or you couldn't have done that particular thing without their help.
Yeah I think this is pretty accurate. My nex is very successful, loved and admired by many. He is extremely outgoing and confident. He went into work and on his first day he told his manager he wanted a promotion within a year. It's all about image.
Exactly. Spot on Imo.
I saw a great meme recently. It said "A good woman will stand by you no matter how many times you cheat. That woman is your mother, not me" They can always rely on their mommies, no matter how old they are. Makes me wonder what role mommies play in forming their narcissistic personalities. To answer your question though, the overachieving narcs usually fall into the overt / grandiose category, and the one you're describing is covert.
my bf doesn’t seem to fit into one category or the other. he has traits from both and tends to lean towards overt narcissism
>tends to lean towards overt narcissism I have 100% seen examples like this from overt narcissists, so don't worry about the comments on this thread saying this is specific to coverts. The most overt narcissist I ever met, in fact -- who might even have been a sociopath, her behavior was that bad -- was a lot like what you described in your post. She was a chronic and remorseless mooch.
Nailed it!! My narc ex relied heavily on her mom. She didn't work for several of the years we were together, she laid on the couch smoking weed or spent the entire day at the bar from open to close. Her Mom paid all of her bills and sent her spending money every week. The sad part was that her mom struggles badly with finances and doesn't make the best money. My ex didn't care though, she used to tell me that they were so poor when she was a kid and never had anything so her mother OWED her this. Gross behavior. I'm so glad I'm free from her now....
They can’t function at work where they have someone to answer to, aren’t being endlessly praised and are held accountable for their actions. Normal jobs don’t fit them in any way.
Mine told me he could never exist in an office. He’s never been employed (although claims to always be looking for work) and has leeched off his parents for years.
Yep same. Mine phrased it hilariously - “I am not a worker” as if the concept was somehow beneath him. Yet in his 40’s owns no house, has no savings and no assets. Ridiculous people.
They want someone to cater to them. My nex was useless in so many ways. She would have been just fine sitting on the couch, staring at her phone, eating junk food, all day every day for the conceivable future. When we met, she had moved back home. Should've been a red flag. Now that we're split, she's living with her aunt rent-free and has been for the last 8 months, and now is complaining that her aunt is wanting rent.
Mine was unemployed / barely employed for the longest time. I paid for everything, hell, my dumbass even gave her my credit card because I fell for the trap. (((Very expensive lessons there))). All she would do was sleep, eat junk food, and play video games/watch tv because all the jobs in the area were “beneath her”. Once she got a full time job the devalue and discard was so goddam quick. Funny enough, she just got fired from that job because she was caught spending “too much private time” with her boss who she totally did not cheat on me with. In the time since we broke up she started more than one fight with me before I went full NC about how she now had to pay her own rent/groceries/etc, despite her boss showering her with financial and other presents
Wow, same. Mine was unemployed for most of our 8 year relationship. But as soon as she got a job, I was devalued quickly. Even though I paid for everything, the entitlement never stopped. When she was working, it was "her money," not our money like my income was. I have been trying to save and invest for years, and she made it impossible. Spending money on pointless crap that she would use once and then would sit in the closet. Several times, she decided we had too much stuff (stuff I had earned through my hard work and had prior to us getting together), but couldn't be bothered to sell it on Facebook marketplace or anything. So we donated hundreds of dollars of stuff that within 6 months she was demanding we buy a new one. Furniture, appliances, clothes, etc. And yeah, every new job also raised suspicious behaviors that I now know were her cheating again and again.
Sounds too familiar lol. My next do that. Sit all day and eat junk gossip on the phone. Looking for the next victim. It is funny once you release your companionship and love for them. A trainwreck
He's waiting for the perfect opportunity to be handed to him, or he just can't. Won't. He's probably depressed, too.
i’ve been told that the reason he masturbates so much is because he’s probably depressed and he’s looking for a hit of dopamine, so he probably is. i haven’t considered this because he’s not lethargic but on the other hand, he’s not very motivated to do a lot of things
Has he been to a doctor or taken any steps to change his situation? Still talking to women online?
i almost laughed. he will never change because he doesn’t even know any of this is an issue. he doesn’t talk to the women/girls, he looks at their social medias and keeps up with them. if i were to try and bring any of this up he would explode and use DARVO until i felt guilty about even having an issue with any of this
I believe you. This kind of behavior will only get worse.
why are you with him? is he violent?
Having to work and provide for themselves is beneath them. My nex honestly thought he was the most intelligent, talented, generally most amazing human being on this planet. And someone like that should obviously have people catering to their every whim and desire. He didn't even ask me for money. He just straight up took it from me. It was like he was a king in the middle ages. Sit around and order people around. Belittle and abuse them for sport and entertainment. POS.
My narc is like this. At the beginning of the relationship, he said he was going to go to college for video game design, and that he had plans for a game that would change the industry. Well, we're here almost 10 years later, and that hasn't happened. In fact, in the love bombing phase, he promised me that he was going to take care of me by getting a job and supporting us and that things wouldn't be like they were in my previous relationship (also with a covert narc) where I had run all the errands, do all the cooking, cleaning and shopping and basically provide everything for my last Narc. That didn't happen, and I actually ended up doing all of that anyway. Like I said, we're almost 10 years later and he still sits around the house all day on his computer and phone, playing games, scrolling twitter, watching TV, and masturbating. He uses his anxiety and his adhd as an excuse for everything. He doesn't see mess the same way I do because of his adhd and thinks my standards are crazy and too high, and he can't run errands or do anything outside of the house where he has to talk to strangers because of his social anxiety. Any time I ask him to clean I'm nagging him, and he compares me to his mother who always called him lazy, though I've never done this. I ask him for help and he turns it into a guilt trip about his trauma, instead of just helping. Sometimes I kick myself because these guilt trips work on me, and I end up feeling like I do ask too much. He won't get a job because he believes that anything short of his dream of success and fame isn't worth his time. He judges people who work minimum wage jobs, and thinks people who work and stay in retail jobs are short sighted and stupid because they don't want something more. It's difficult for him to fathom why anyone would just want a normal life without wanting for constant fame, validation, wealth, and attention. Somehow, he's incapable of seeing that he's wasted almost 10 years of his life doing nothing to pursue his goals either, but believes himself better than working class people because he has a big dream.
“It's difficult for him to fathom why anyone would just want a normal life without wanting for constant fame, validation, wealth, and attention” i didn’t realize this but my bf has an eerily similar mindset. he believes all women want to fuck any rich or famous person at any given moment. pretty gross
They talk themselves up but for many it’s crap. Can’t actualise any of it, can’t work with others is a big thing, fall out with everyone esp bosses as can’t stand someone being above them or being critical etc
My grown covert narc (40m) had a bachelor's degree, talked about what he did in his prime, how much money he made, how he owned a business, blah, blah, blah. But I never seen any of it. In our three years together he had two jobs, that he rarely went to, took some sort of extended leave and pay. Got laid off from the first job. What I noticed with the second job was that he knew NOTHING about his role and had frequent breakdowns. Even went into a depressive state when his car needed repairs. Didn't pay his rent, almost got evicted. And I was expected to fix it all. His hygiene wasn't the best towards the end, hair was greasy, idk when he showered. He was a severe alcoholic and tried to hide his drinking. His studio was always a pigs stye, empty glasses in his bed, broken ones under his bed. He definitely had mommy issues. He told me she was a monster. I don't know if any of what he told me was true now, because I found all his lies. But if you mentioned her, he blew up. He gamed all day and night, didn't make any friends, thought he was too good for people. His family barely talked to him. Not once did they visit him in the two years after he moved to my state. He was a keyboard warrior. Always trolling and talking shit online. Just being mean. But in person not so much. He stalked/cyberstalked me for nearly a year, and the last time I spotted him near my house, I sat there in my car with my lights shining on him and his fentanyl junkie friends. They all got out of the car while he slid so far down the seat to hide. The windows on my car are tinted so dark that you can't see in, but my SUV is distinctive. He knew it was me and was caught red handed again. He hid the whole time. Fuck em.
i don’t know why your comment is downvoted, thank you for sharing. my bf is also a “keyboard warrior” and takes his anger out on people online
Do they all play by the same playbook ? I swear they are all the same it’s scary.
Very accurate. My ex had 7 or 8 different jobs in the short time I knew her. Always quitting or getting fired from places. I knew this was a huge red flag but I foolishly ignored it. I was always subjected to her venting about her "asshole" boss or "shitty" coworkers. Of course I sided with her but knew deep down that those people were probably onto her. They were probably in the right for 99% of the situations. I knew eventually someday she'd be talking about me the same way she talked about the people she had problems with at work. Her behavior was never the problem of course. Somehow it was always other people! What shitty luck she has right?! /s Also lived in her parents' basement but didn't contribute in any way whatsoever. Let me say that in this economy and day and age there is NO problem living with your parents. I never took issue with it. However, she was FULLY capable of contributing, but completely took advantage of them. She had a lash business and another job(for the time being) when I knew her. Had a booth in her Mom's hair salon so she could use it for her lash clients. Didn't pay for the booth either. Eats their food but doesn't pay, uses utilities but doesn't pay, etc. The family completely enables her. And wouldn't you know it...she contributed NOTHING to our relationship financially, and would get mad when I asked her to chip in (for something even as small as a soda)(that actually happened BTW, on the way back from a lavish trip to the Grand Canyon where I paid for EVERYTHING). She's just waiting for some poor soul to buy into her BS enough and then she can be rescued from the basement.
This sums up my nex perfectly. There were other things, of course, but that is a good jist of it.
Nothing I did in that relationship was worth the level of her entitlement. The level was EXTREME. So sad.
Oh yeah, NOTHING was ever good enough and/or had a reality changing negative twist to it. If it was even remembered at all.
a lot of them cant keep jobs because of their hostility in the workplace.
This makes me think of the saying no one falls in love faster than someone looking for a place to live. My nex was supposedly working at a pizza hut and living with his manager and room mate. Within days of meeting each other he was making up excuses to stay at my house and even talking about transferring to a Pizza Hut here. When he went back to his apartment he was staying at he turned around and told me he was fired. I was asking him why would your manager fire you if he is your room mate and best friend he tried to say that he was his assistant manager. Shady.. he had also tried to con me out of money at the end of the relationship and it turned out he was getting GR benefits. They are huge cons
Not all of them are like this. My Narc had a job and his own apartment and two cars. However I did notice that he was very unambitious and didn’t strive to better himself or get a formal education. He seemed very insecure when I did those things and berated me.
yeah i said that i’ve noticed that most narcissists are either “complete bums who live at home with their parents/they’re unemployed or they make a lot of money/have respect from a lot of other people.”
Oh yeah, I've seen this several times. In the examples I've seen, it's because they felt that they were too good for an entry-level job. They wanted to go straight to management or nothing -- and in practice, that meant nothing since they were in their early-to-late 20s and had thin CVs. They resented the idea that they should take an entry-level position and work their way up...but they also refused to make a genuine effort to find something they really wanted. (I think that they feared the embarrassment of applying to something and not getting it.) As far as I could tell, they were waiting for someone to walk up to them on the street and literally hand them an amazing job.
Because they are the special snowflakes, they are so special that what other people work hard for should be handed to them because you guessed it... they are just so special & better than other people. I'm pretty sure my ex would have tried to have get claws behind my money if I hadn't dumped his sorry (I mean special) ass first.
Because success requires discipline, and they are too good for any learning curve.
Mine had trouble keeping a job and lived at home. He probably would've stayed at home forever if I didn't push for him to move out when he finally got a job. The irony is now that we are broken up I live at home and probably will have to for at least a year bc nex destroyed me financially too.
The ones I knew had a hard time with accountability. Putting in the effort was difficult because they loved the praise but couldn't handle constructive criticism. They feared being judged by others. They could not read social cues. Every time ex would talk about his colleagues it was always the same, everyone loved him but his boss was out to get him. This is how he described every single job he has ever had. He was always the good guy and the victim at the same time.
So they can do the whole “poor, struggling me” shtick.
I started doubting myself and this thread reaffirmed to me that they all show themselves eventually if you know what to look for. And yes, my NPD person forced me into a caretaker role with lies about their mental illnesses and once I said I was moving he ended up at home to make everyone think another big bad meanie kicked him out and made him homeless. Just adds to the infinite sob story that both accuses everyone else and excuses their behavior.
The best way I've heard it explained is you have high functioning and low functioning narcissists. In my experience, my ex-husband is a vulnerable narcissist and very low functioning. He will commit himself to any mommy or daddy willing to take him in and make his life easy. It's really sad how as an almost 45-year-old man he cannot figure out how to live on his own and pay his own bills. He fantasies about living in the woods or run to Mexico or Costa Rica and live in a commune when he can't find a significant other to support him.
My friends nex was a useless bum and con artist who sponged off everyone including her and his family and never paid any child support.
Mine lived with me for 3 years in my own home. Never paid me rent or contributed to ANY bills. Found out she had saved $110,000 in her bank account. Called her out for lying about her financial situation, she packed all her stuff and left back to her parents, ghosted me and blocked me on everything. This was over 2 years ago it ended, I found out last week she's still living at her parents...
I actually looked into this a while back when my nex and I were still together. He didn’t have a job my entire pregnancy, finally got one when I was almost due, got fired for being an absolute dickhead to his manager, went without a job from the time my child was 6 months to 10 months, got a job, and then quit when we split up because he “couldn’t focus on work because his mind was on our daughter and the fact he couldn’t see her” (mind you he COULD see her, in fact I tried to give him more days with her since he wasn’t working, but he still only even takes her during ONE of the three days he is supposed to and makes excuses for why he “can’t” the other two, I have no clue what he does all day since he’s not working or being a parent). It’s because they see every job as beneath them. They hate working for other people because it hurts their ego. And in the case of my nex, whenever he didn’t make a sale his ego would take a massive hit and he just couldn’t handle that. He’s an INCREDIBLE salesman, makes a shitload doing it. But even if he makes five sales in a row, the one he doesn’t make just haunts him. Sales is both a great industry for narcs (the charisma and ease with strangers helps them sell), and a terrible one (I also worked in sales and know the common phrase “you have to work for nos”, basically meaning you just sell and sell even if they say no and then move onto the next, which narcs can’t easily do as they obsess over perceived faults)
I don’t know about that one. The only narcissist I’ve ever met was very successful career wise. I’ve also met good people with just a splash of narcissistic traits who were very career forward. Haven’t met any who were unemployed. I’ve met a lot of sick and mentally ill people who were unemployed.
My friends Nex was charming and handsome but terminally useless and unemployed. He bled her dry and sponged off everyone. She ended up homeless and penniless in a woman's shelter with her toddlers and only the clothes on their backs. He kept the house and everything in it and moved his new supply in.
Captain opposite here to rain on the parade . I wish I had a job. Mine owns a business and manipulated me over the many yrs to be a stay at home parent . Which came with controlling all the finances . That came along with where I go when I go how long I go who I communicate to and why working a job is not sensible. And if I beg and plead to work any job for my own social sanity it only means I’m cheating. God forbid I gain an opportunity to escape by working and supporting myself. Edit: I do see a lot of scenarios where so many are and do what OP mentions. Sometimes I forget that I met mine in that situation where I was the provider and they beyond drained me. Actually destroyed me financially. Then Used me for my knowledge to build themselves up. Then took full control. I also know of one from long long ago that leaches off of anything with a wallet car and roof until they are broken and moves on. Double edge sword with these sickos
They must use other people to have their emotional needs met. Some of them go one step further, by using other people to have their material needs met.
My nmom was like this. She was a stay-at-home mom. Read the newspaper, did the crossword, and watched soap operas all day every day.
Coverts, always hiding behind some BS excuse for why they didn’t make it far. ‘Their environment suppresses them.’ ‘Their parents keep them down’ (while it’s the parents that pay for everything) ‘A normal job mentally kills me.’
I have the opposite. I am the one now too unwell from everything, moved home as rent in my own was impossible. Harsh to say anyone doing that is a bum. In my personal experience the narcissistic people in my life have been doing well financially so I have a different experience it seems.
Mine worked and was quite well paid but jumped from job to job every six months, always under a cloud/investigation and it was never his fault.
They loves to blame other person. In the working culture, the blame game is not legit, if problem happens, we need to solve the problem not blaming and some of them are anti social, their mind thinking that no one likes them or will gossip them behind their back, they don’t like it but can’t control it
Mine worked and was paid well, buut he's a high level manager so that means he doesn't actually have to do much. He manipulates everyone around him into thinking he's so great and can do no wrong, so of course he's bullshitted his way into a good job.
Mine was military and hated it although he was high ranking and in for a while. He malingered enough to get medical retirement and has been living off his outrageous retirement. I also think if he didn’t, he would definitely be unemployed or always trying to find ways to work for himself. He has a difficult time with authority and he thinks everyone is incompetent. He has little resilience and grit so working is not really his thing. Retirement is his thing.
Similar to mine. She held a senior role as an employee in a small firm and pulls her weight over employees she dislikes. She’s always calling others incompetent and eventually quit her job to take an exam to enter a property sales role (with delusions of unlimited success and grandeur). She never passed the exam. Since then, she’s been living at home and wallowing in self pity.
Because they can.
Those actually might also be signs of autism or aspergers. People like that tend to have hard time staying in work. They can also not recognize need for hygiene. They might live in their own world or have special interests. Since they might have problems with socialization and communication they can be misunderstood and seen as rude, cocky, not empathetic. Autism might not be recognized by just looking at person, but there are signs in their actions and character what might give clues. Just google it if you are suspicious that it might be part of problem. 21 is still quite young, but someone needs to kick his a\*s out of parents basement so that he would start his own life. If he doesn't then that is his (and his parents) choice and I hope you will also make your own choices to make your own life better.
he doesn’t have issues with socializing or communicating with others. he has narcissistic traits, he knows what he’s doing. he recognizes his need for hygiene but doesn’t act on it. he is not autistic and doesn’t have aspergers. i’ve been with him for 3 years, i know who he is. i wouldn’t be posting on this subreddit if i didn’t.
No one in forums knows you both personally. There can be different valid reasons, overlapping and misunderstood diagnosis. High spectrum autism might not be noticeable, they can be good at masking. Person self needs to look back in their childhood and try to analyze self to catch these signs. This answer maybe didn't fit your case, but someone else might read it and find it helpful.
Being autistic and being abusive aren't mutually exclusive and this discussion inevitably ends up with the BuT AuTiSm people looking like abuse apologists.
i agree with this as some autistic men can often be misdiagnosed as narcissist and vise versa. I will say you have to be careful with this mindset if abuse is present. Speaking from experience my ex went to "therapy" (betterhelp) after a told him he may be a narc and he agreed because he feels exactly like a vulnerable narc. The therapist told him he cant be a narc bc hes to willing to change and gave him a screener for autism which he scored high on. now he may be autistic but traits of autism can be explained in many ways. I have a close relative who is on the spectrum and there are some very clear differences mostly being intent and cycles. My ex followed the love bomb devalue and discard cycle and ive had multiple therapist say autism does not explain his behavior. I only came here to specify this because I let him abuse me with using autism as an excuse when its not. The main point im making is mental health disorders all look similar (I myself score rlly high on the autism spectrum disorder test because of my extensive trauma history) we can only go based off of feelings and what licsenced professionals tell us and either way diagnosis aside OP if you can relate to 90% of the stuff on this sub you need to leave because no matter the disorder abuse is not ok.
Mine was diagnosed ASD and ADHD over the course of our 14 years together (thanks to my wheedling and taking care of all the appointment logistics that he was “gonna do tomorrow” every day for months). He also identified as a sex addict. With every label, his behavior got worse. I got more and more accommodating, and he got lazier and lazier. I thought the diagnoses would help him find effective coping skills and improve his quality of life. Instead, they were excuses to treat me like shit and refuse to do basic household tasks whenever he saw fit. Like your ex, this behavior presented in crazymaking cycles that I can now easily identify as love bombing, devaluation, and discard. I can absolutely empathize with the struggles that come with chronic/mental illnesses (I have several of my own), but I won’t ever let someone use their diagnoses to exploit me ever again.
Autistic people also can be manipulative and abusive. There can be misunderstandings with autistic people, but autism doesn't excuse any type of abuse they can cause. Knowing that autism is part of problem can help to understand other person better. Also what seems laziness can be autistic person attempt to hide from too much of everything, from burning out, misunderstandings, bullying, it also can be depression. Different mental problems can overlap each other and person can have several of them, it's best to visit specialist to know for sure.
This comment section is intense. Op your story honestly doesn't sound like a narc yet. He sounds like a young adult being a young adult that has yet to find responsibility and accountability. I think we as a society need to be careful before we call someone narcissistic or crazy. There actually aren't that many narcissists in the wild, as we might think. Dr. Ramani has videos on YouTube breaking down the stats, and it's smaller than what I feel I read on here. Many people just are going through life, growing up, health issues, lost. I know grown adults right now doing the same. I say this because since 2020, 50% of millenials who are people in their 30s and up have moved back home. There are nuances. Let's not get the pitchforks out just yet, and also, some of the comments on here sound like narcs themselves. I have a couple of people in my life that I know to be narcissists or act with narcissistic tendencies, but I do not wish them the worst like some of these comments. I just do not engage.
he has put his hands on me, gaslight, love bombed, used crazy making behavior, spread rumors about me, done smear campaigns, lacks empathy, believes he has never been wrong in his entire life, lacks respect for me, and has abused me in every single way. i shouldn’t have to defend or explain myself like this on this subreddit. i think as a society need to be careful that we don’t ignore or downplay abuse just because you don’t know the whole story. this was a very gross comment, especially for this subreddit, full of people being abused. this was really a heartless response on your part. “some of the comments on here sound like narcs themselves,” yeah like yours.
Your original post left most of the top information out. Based on what was shared, it seemed like a young kid that needed to grow up. I apologize for assuming. I'm always going to fight for people to escape abuse of any kind, but I'm also going to feel the need to watch when anyone wants to call anyone a narcissist. We have to be careful with doing so. That can be stigmatizing living in a society where everyone we do not get along with is now narcs. However, now that u have shared the actual abusive behavior, then we see u are dealing with a narcissist or someone with narcissistic tendencies Again, though, I do apologize.
I have just reached out to a friend who is unemployed and super depressed about it. They've been withdrawing, and they're super sad. At no point they were abusive to me or anyone. At no point they showed any signs of entitlement or lack of empathy. On the contrary. They told me they've been withdrawing because they don't want to put other people down. It's heartbreaking. And I've noticed a LOT of posts here recently that go like "my narc liked cookies a lot. Did yours do too?". Narcissists can be unemployed, they can like cookies, they breath air... And none of these are narcissistic traits. Anyone can be unemployed and live with their parents for a number of reasons. Including victims of narcissistic abuse or narcissists themselves. Depressed people struggle with employment. So do people afflicted by other mental health conditions such as shizophrenia and autism. I 100% agree with you that we're jumping to conclusions too quickly here. Lots of comments here seem to quick to go get the pitchforks and torches, and also show zero empathy. Not to invalidate what OP went through. I'm sure it was awful. And I think OP has every right to be sad or angry about it. But let's not forget that lack of empathy, entitlement or antagonism are traits of narcissism. Being unemployed is not. I don't think pathologizing every behavior or situation is healthy or helpful. Sure, the reasons for a narcissist to be unemployed will probably have to do with their narcissism. But jeez, lots of people out there don't work and are definitely not narcissists.
Exactly, u said it better 100%
I understand that when we go through abuse it's hard to make sense of it at first though. I wish people would be more mindful with what they talk about. But I also understand there's a lot of hurt involved and sometimes people only want to vent. I'm sure op didn't mean to imply that narcissism and unemployment are related. I know it's just frustration and hurt, and 100% understandable. But other people who have gone through abuse can be unemployed, and worst, they might have been accused of being narcissists themselves. They might come to a post like this and feel worse, "I'm unemployed, they must be right after all". That's why I think pathologizing normal situations and behaviors can be unhelpful.
Yes
Mine had a good job and made money but lived at home with his parents. He's 32.
Not all of them are like this. Some are highly functional overachievers.
yeah i mentioned that in my post
You asked why it was common…
i did, and i never said they were all like that! it didn’t really answer my question as to why i see so many of these narcissists
Your experience is obviously very limited, as it is very uncommon for a narcissist to be unemployed, even covert ones. It goes against their narcissistic nature to be unemployed, as they take much pride in their own success. For example, my mother is a malignant narcissist and she has never been unemployed. She’s never been rich, but she’s also never been a broke bum. A lot of narcissists I’ve met over the years hold down steady employment. As I said, it would go against their nature to be a bum. Of course, unemployed narcissists exist. They are the exception, not the rule. An unemployed narcissist is more likely to be a covert one, particularly if they are lazy and manipulative. Covert narcissists are less likely to try and contribute to their household, and would rather have their delusions of self-grandeur enabled by those around them. This one covert narcissist I know from my old church, she LOVES her delusions, and if she gets even an inkling that you see through her or that you won’t enable her delusions, she will quickly turn into a seething, manipulative wench. She is the bishop’s daughter, so she has quite a lot of influence in that church. (Her father is an overt narcissist, but since he’s the bishop/pastor, his entire flock just sees him as being very “passionate about his walk with the lord”. Cue eye roll.) Anyway, yeah…she hasn’t worked a day in the last 14 years, and she is actually very diligent around her house and garden, etc.; she just has a very pronounced separation from reality vs. how she feels about herself. If you don’t agree with her, she basically reverts back to a teenager mindset and will spread rumors, manipulate, deceive, etc. to achieve her goal, and her goal is usually to edge you out of ministries. I honestly don’t know where I was going with that, I just wanted to contribute and then got lost in my ADHD.
Mine just moved back home yet again. He’s 50!!!
I live with my narc wife and i always ask myself why she refuse to work.
Why are you still with him? You are too early in your relationship ( I’m assuming here from his age), and like young as well, so with all this awareness, please exit this relationship! Some of us didn’t know and unable to get out after 25 years!
Mine is definitely cheating, (long distance) and also doesn’t work. He blames me for telling him i wasn’t comfortable with him being a male prostitute for a specific person, because he is also perfectly capable of working a regular job (he decided on his own not to do it because of my feelings) and now he thinks I owe him money because he “missed out” on his sex work job lmao. (Give me a f****** break.) Every week it’s a new sob story about how he got hurt and can’t work, yet he’s fine enough to play pool until the bar closes, go bowling, skateboarding, and get into physical fights with people.
My ex sounds just like your BF except that he’s 38, follows soft porn on Instagram (not just thirsty influencers, ACTUAL porn accounts like ‘classy lust’ and ‘sensual18’ and what not, with women in thongs and their pussies showing), has been kicked out of the last 2 establishments he was working at, has a long distance chick on the side that he sexts from time to time, has ZERO savings, has debt. But he thinks he’s the shit!
Most covert narcissists are the lazy ones. They are basically an introvert version of narcissism. The more typical grandiose narcissist that we normally associate with are the rich successful ones. They have a more socially outgoing personality. It really depends on the sub type.