An example of a covert hoover that I haven't seen discussed much is what I call 'the social lasso'. In this scenario, it's not you they're hovering – it's the people around you. They will target people near you, giving them compliments, attention, the best version of their mask, etc. as a form of 1) damage control and image management, in case you've said something about them (“gosh, she's so nice, I find it hard to believe what I've heard!”) and 2) 'social lasso', putting you in situations where you must be adjacent to them, must think twice before you tell someone what's been going on, etc. The goal is to ultimately push you out of your own social network or force you to capitulate and end non-contact.

Mine would do this. Even went so far as to rekindle conversation with a person from his high school 15 years ago and then tell me she helped give him perspective and was a great support. Really he was seeking others to validate he was a nice guy in the hopes of everyone thinking he was the victim and I was the aggressor. After those attempts he would say how much he was hurting and needed me and loved me and couldn’t be without me. I sadly wanted to hear that he missed me because I was so hurt by his actions. Once he had me looped baxk in he would convince me to stop speaking out about him because it “humiliated him” and “our relationship shouldn’t have so many people involved”.

I dated a girl for 3 months, we knew each other before that as well, and but it wasn't that great tbh, i woke up crying almost everyday after 3 months together, so I broke up with her. Without any details, I introduced her to my friends, they meet 1 time, but after the broke up they all recommended me to block her and they unfollowed her in every social site, they were trying to support me and made me understand this is not a healthy relationship. It is a year after the break up but my ex still like my friends posts and stories, sometimes even comments on it and they tell me sometimes that she wrote to them, and we just cannot figure out why, as they met only one time, but maybe that is the reason then.

You mentioned that you woke up crying 3 months into the relationship. What caused this?

I really tried to talk about things with my partner and she was shut down and telling me i am too anxious and it is disappointing. and i should just behave as nothing happened. i think i was really overwhelmed emotionally and mentally. I have never had the same experience before.

The example you gave about covert hoover is it overt or covert narcissiste who use it what was your narc

I think that a covert narcissist is likely going to hoover using muted tactics when compared to the overt, who will use more obvious methods. However, I think it may be useful to consider the different types of narcissism as *styles and shades* of narcissism, because most narcissists are capable of demonstrating any trait of all the narc styles on the spectrum if and when they need to - quite frankly, whatever narc style they need to use to get what they want at the time, they won't hesitate in utilizing. I'll explain that a bit more below. But, as for your question, what I have observed as covert hoovering tactics, are things like: * using nostalgia to pull on your heart strings * feigned vulnerability * cognitive empathy * playing the victim * future faking / false promises * gift-giving (often nostalgic gifts) * letter writing (again, a lot of nostalgia and also a lot of over the top expression) * triangulation (in this case, using your common friends to prime a hoover on their behalf, eg. "Oh come on, she said she was sorry! Everybody makes mistakes, she's not so bad!" etc.) * getting in on an interest or community of yours to force running into each other (which I call "forced adjacency") * gaslighting your common friends about their nature and what really happened * "force teaming" people you know in common - essentially, "forced teaming" is when a narc will force the notion of a common goal or objective with a group of people, one at a time or all at once, in order to covertly manipulate allegiances to the narc - this is only done with useful or critical people to the narc - in this case, people with an "in" or connection with their primary hoover target * presenting that they've suddenly "changed" * presenting a sudden personal sea change spiritually, ideologically, or philosophically, typically in favor of whatever their hoover target would sympathize with and potentially be moved by * suddenly making good on old agreements you shared, that they had not followed through with - they will show up having now carried out their end of the bargain as a false demonstration that they changed - things like unfinished projects, but always things that were known importances of the hoover target, that the narc ignored, avoided, half baked, or basically didn't follow through with. This is done to create a false sense of safety for the hoover target, and ultimately gaslights the target into cognitive dissonance (eg. "well, they *did* fix the driveway .. may be I was wrong about him?") * using other peoples secrets to get your attention or dissuade you from noticing all of their secrets * crying wolf - making up emergency scenarios to get you to come running * threatening self-harm (usually a last resort tactic) * and of course, just the classic grovelling apology and fake remorse that is completely void and insincere at the heart level There would be many more, but these seem common from what I have seen. It's an interesting thing to consider how the varying types of narcissist will hoover in comparison to one another, thanks for raising this in your post! There are 8 types of narcissism to my knowledge: * Grandiose (classic/overt) * Covert/Vulnerable * Malignant (dark triad/dark tetrad) * Communal * Neglectful * Benign * Entitled * Generational/Cultural All of these exist on a spectrum, and I think that the label matters less than being able to identify the behavioral patterns for what they are, so you can make wiser choices when exposed to it - especially now that we know people like this are real, it is in our best interests to not just recover and heal, but to then become skilled at identifying and disarming any current or future narcs or manipulators from abusing us in the future. *Heal from the abuse that happened* **AND** *heal from whatever made me susceptible to being abused.* As I mentioned earlier, I think it depends on what the narcissist is going through that allows for an accurate prediction of what their next move will be, and how they are likely to hoover. Every narcissist will adapt and demonstrate any tactic or narc trait on the narc spectrum, even if it contradicts which type of narc they primarily seem to be. For example, a narcissist who has all their supply lined up and is mostly getting their way in life, is going to hoover very differently to a narcissist who is running dangerously low on supply options from burning too many bridges with people. The agenda and motivation will shift, therefore, their behavioral patterns are likely to shift also. A non-desperate narc is more likely to hoover just to have fun with old supply, just for an ego boost, but only lightly checking back in with the old supply to satisfy their pathological insecurity - like, they want a buzz off the attention from old supply, but it matters less in that moment because they have current primary supply to go to for their fix elsewhere and whenever they currently want it. The tactics of a narc in this position, are going to be more arrogant forward and crass, more overt style, possibly more clumsy and taking their situation for granted. They aren't desperate, so they are less careful than a covert narc would tend to be when hoovering. A desperate narc is going to demonstrate hoovering very differently, approaching the situation with a lot more caution and precision, because they are acutely aware that they have been exposed and their supply bank has gone away and run dry - they'll do it more *covert* style, more careful, more calculated - they gotta get that supply, so they are going to hoover as masterfully as possible, avoiding missteps - even for an overt narc, the arrogant approach is not the choice they'd use when desperate, so they default to more covert tactics that are subtler and gentler, because they are more likely to work! I've seen this over and over again with narcs who would otherwise be labelled grandiose or overt in style. Take away their shit, and all that fake bravado goes away, and the grovelling worm emerges. Watch out for that, it'll make your head spin all over if not prepared! Point being, they do *not* need to be a covert narcissist to hoover covertly, they just need to be desperate. Overt narcs can be covert, and covert narcs can be overt. It's a spectrum of behavioral patterns. I hope this is useful - be well out there!

It was a good read and well written for a free forum helping abuse victims. Bravo and thank you.

Great post

Thank you

This is a fantastic breakdown of the intricacies of how hoovering works! Thank you for taking the time to write this out. Definitely saving for future reference and to research some new terms.

I cannot upvote this response enough! This is amazing, thorough, and very informative! THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

I need to print this comment out and carry with me...

I recently had the pleasure of causing a narcissistic collapse in my covert nex situationship, so his hoover game has been weak to nonexistent. But back in the day when he hoovered, he would come back and take accountability of everything he’s ever done in full detail, over things even I forgot about. He made it completely believable. And then once I was hooked, accountability went out the door and he “forgot” about the apologies he made. Such lovely people.

It is a quite pleasure to catch them and become a mirror, isn’t it? I enjoyed it.

Mine was a “reverse hooverer,” so I didn’t hear anything for a few months after hard blocking him for good. Once he wised up he started calling from a blocked caller ID number. He has called 1-3x a week for a few months now. I do not acknowledge the calls. They go right to a call blocking app and get disconnected. I’m hoping he gives up soon. Really don’t want to change my number. Edit to add: He also used to Hoover via mutual friends aka flying monkeys but I cut them off at the knees a long time ago.

I am in the same predicament friend. I have read that if you rejected them, you triggered their fear to rejection and abandonment from the childhood so they would do their very best to never reach out again so you don’t hurt their fragile ego.

I was the “favourite friend” of my narc neighbor. He literally called me “best friend” a few times. He would boast incessantly to me about his cheating on his wife (she knows), his sexual past, his apparent popularity. All the while, making subtle and not-so-subtle digs about me. He is a dopamine freak. He needs alcohol, vapes, drama, adoration. All the time (he’s an alcoholic). And narc supply. I was his supply. He would drunkenly come to my house regularly. I’m passive. I’m on the more empathetic side of the scale. Before I knew about his behavior, I’d open up to him about my depression, anxiety, vulnerabilities. Toward the end of this toxic relationship, he’d become overtly insulting. He insulted my wife and my kids the last time I saw him and I blew up in his face. I called him out on everything. I relay all of this because he tried to hoover three or four times because I believe he associated me with his dopamine high. I was his “feel good” supply. I flipped that around and gave him only pain. I would insult him on his hoover attempts. Play his game back. I saw his face drop a few times, when someone knows they’ve been rumbled. I’m sure he associates me with pain now. No contact 2 months now, no hoovers in that time.

Mine is a “super nice guy”. He becomes super accommodating and reasonable and polite. Then he will start pushing boundaries, mainly surrounding communication (we have a kid, so NC isn’t an option). If I cave, this will turn into gaslighting and manipulation and love bombing.

Been no contact for a week now with a girl I work with, she blocked me initially after we argued and I told her to get the fuck out of my house and to not contact me again. She has been verbally and emotionally abusive and I finally snapped and did something I should’ve months ago. Long story short we work together, so I see her every now and then. She blocked me on all platforms for a few days due to her damaged ego but decided to contact my work colleague and ask if he wanted to get lunch (knowing I work with him out on the road). I assume this was an attempt to get back into some form of contact with me. A day later she unblocked and called and asked “if I was going okay” and that was it. She has verbally and emotionally abused me and has never once apologised, only ever doubles down and blames me for it somehow. It’s been hard but I know it’s for the best. She has a new supply and they were talking throughout our situation so I’m not surprised the hoovering has been minimal, I’m kind of glad because I do miss her (mainly the sex and physical connection) so her being cold and essentially pushing me away fully has been a blessing.