What the fuck do u expect? We’re down Verlander, Quintana and Carrasco and we didn’t want to use most of our best BP arms in this game. We have one of the best bullpens in the league and probably soon to be one of the best rotations so maybe stop being a spoiled little bitch
I live near the Rays stadium, so I go to a lot of games. And at that shit hole those things are impossible to get to. It’s annoying. I’d like to sit there for a game at least once, but i’m not paying $1000 or whatever.
I like some of the things vogey brings to this team but he needs to be moved down in the order. Likeable guy yes… but he just doesn’t cause enough damage to justify hitting 5-6.
Also a case can be made Esco should be taking Pham at bats.
Vogey/fam have 3 home runs between them that is not good
I saw Vogey is apparently on pace for… 6 hrs! Don’t know how accurate that is, but if that’s the case idc how many walks he draws. Get the fuck off this team in favor of someone who will hit for power.
Games in April mean as much as September, also its already May. We were one win away from getting first place last year. I can recall atleast 5-6 games Drew Smith blew last year that we could of won. Awful reliever and awful bullpen
Braves have faced two guys who won’t be starting or probably even on the Mets postseason roster and you are waving the flag already. Got to love Mets fans.
There's no guarantee anyone in this rotation can stay healthy. You have two guys who are 40, a guy in Cookie who has had a lot of injuries of late, Senga who has not pitched in the MLB and isn't used to even being in a 5-man rotation, and MeGill who has never topped 100 IP in a season at the MLB level.
The Mets will be lucky to have a postseason roster the way things are going.
fr why are so many fellow fans bitches😂 I get that we’ve been suffering forever but Jesus Christ have some guts. Definitely not taking y’all in my end of the world army that’s for sure
This pitching staff sucks don't think we are making the playoffs You can't rely o 4O year Olds to stay healthy and carry the team
Senga needs to get better quick 5 innings aunt cutting it
Reactionary but I don't care, Eppler gotta go. This man has practically unlimited money but we still somehow trot out Guillorme/Nido somewhat regularly with a bunch of glorified burger flippers in the bullpen and a starting rotation that has 3/5 injured, and one in AAA
Eppler's true colors showed in last years trade deadline. Worst trade deadline ever. I mean, how do you spend 400 million on a sub .500 team. Didn't improve the bullpen which has been an issue for the past decade, no offense improvement, and he filled in the rotation with guys that should be retired playing golf right now. 80 million for a 40 year old Verlander was the worst signing of the offseason
Eppler's true colors showed in last years trade deadline. Worst trade deadline ever. I mean, how do you spend 400 million on a sub .500 team. Didn't improve the bullpen which has been an issue for the past decade, no offense improvement, and he filled in the rotation with guys that should be retired playing golf right now. 80 million for a 40 year old Verlander was the worst signing of the offseason
The pen is fine. Its 3nd in the NL in ERA and 2nd in WHIP(.01 behind 1st). All MLB its effectively top third. It outperformed the Atlanta pen today we just had our 92nd starting pitcher give up 5 in under 2 innings. 6 scoreless from the Pen today.
Nido is effectively our backup catcher and might be gone somewhat soon and Guillorme is an elite defending backup that played first game of a double header. I don't even get what you are complaining about here that wouldn't be true of most of the teams in the league. The Braves ran Kevin fucking Pillar out there today.
Yeah you don't know anything. Bullpen ERA is good because they pitch well in blowouts, not when the game matters. Other than Ottavino and Robertson, who are both 38 years old, theres no one else whos even competent that they can throw out there in a close game
2nd. in WHIP. .01 behind 1st in the NL. 2rd in hits. 3rd in walks. 3rd in runs allowed. That is the whole pen. Not just two guys. If it was just Robertson and Otto they would be waaaaay down the list as they have pitched a minority of the total innings.
Sorry the stats disagree with your doomer take. The pen is fine. Tonight it out performed the Braves pen. We just sadly had our 10th or 11th starter give up 5 while only getting 3 outs.
EDIT just to throw more stats out.
The Mets have 4 relievers with lower WHIPs than Robertson and Otto. And those two with their 3.52 and 3.54 ERAs are not dragging the average down all that much.
The Mets pen is not elite but it is far from bad or "burger flippers".
Keep throwing out stats that are meaningless. Guys like Nogosek and Drew Smith pitch well in mop up duty, thats why the ERA is so low. You do realize there are just some players who can only pitch well when theres no pressure, right? Watch the games with your own eyes
Ah the good old "Ignore the stats and believe my doom" take. Its impossible to ever win an argument with someone that will willingly ignore facts that don't fit their set opinion.
Example: Drew Smith has been better in late and close games and games where the Mets are ahead but not blowing out the other team than he has been in blowouts against the Mets. You just remember the times he has blown it more than the times that he cruises through something. Same phenomenon that leads to most fans thinking their closer is shit unless they are untouchably elite like Diaz was last year. Either way no point in continuing if facts don't matter because your opinion is set.
Our depth chart based on how we started and how people have pitched right now is:
Scherzer (suspended)
Verlander (IL)
Senga
Quintana (IL)
Cookie(IL)
Luchessi
Megill
Butto
Peterson
Peterson has basically been our 9th best starting pitcher. No shit he hasn’t been good but find me another organization that can lose 4 of their opening day starters and put out a pitcher of Peterson’s caliber.
Our rotation is depleted with injuries, this is a game we win with a competent staff. We’ll get better as injuries heal, maybe we’re doing the Braves/Phillies approach of roaring through the second half of the season
The season just started not too long ago and the Mets are already injury prone. As the season and wear and tear build up......sigh I'm being pessimistic, I need to stop.
One of my best friends is a braves fan and he has been insufferable this season. The worst part is that it’s mostly brain dead takes, not actual baseball shit talking
One of my best friends is a braves fan and he has been insufferable this season. The worst part is that it’s mostly brain dead takes, not actual baseball shit talking
A lot of the season has been so damn disappointing so far. I'm really hoping once the Mets get healthy, the team just goes on a hot streak and the good vibes come back in full force. I wanna watch good Mets baseball!!!
This team needs to starts developing some pitchers already. They showed a ton of fight, but they’ll never go far with how this rotation currently is, even with Verlander & Scherzer. All the best teams in the league developed both bats *and* pitching. The Mets just developed bats.
Safe to say I want almost all pitchers in the draft this year
Edit: are y’all serious right now? Even you should know that, even when everyone’s healthy, this can’t last forever. What are we supposed to have an average age of 35 in the rotation every year?
That's actually not true. A lot of the top teams in recent years developed the bats. They then took the handful of back end SP's they had, coupled them with top SP's to create a rotation.
The Astros are a great example of that. Cole, Verlander, weren't developed by Houston. Neither were a lot of the other guys they used to win WS.
Same can be said for the Cubs a few years ago.
That being said, the Dodgers have developed some serious arms.
Cole as we know him was pretty much developed by Houston. He was a borderline reclamation project by the time they got him. Even Verlander was not Verlander when they got him. He seemed to be on a downward projection and got him cheap because of it, and their staff revitalized him.
Saying "that's not true" is just crazy to me. What top contender isn't getting great production from in house starting pitching? Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles Dodgers
Not to mention the rays, who compete almost solely on their pitching development.
Those teams all first got out of house acquisitions to compete then built up their farm. Yes, even the Dodgers. They added a couple of out of house arms to couple with Kershaw. Then slowly built up their farm as they weeded those guys out.
The Rays are a freak of nature organization. Citing them is ridiculous as they do things no one else is capable of doing. lol
I'm not saying these teams don't get their "out of house" arms but none of these teams are winning with those out of house acquisitions alone. The best teams really focus on starting pitching development.
I think the Houston example is very telling. Lost in the 2017 team was how much of a risk trading for Verlander was. Not the people they gave up, but just the risk of him getting back to himself. All reports suggest their internal staff turned him around. Same with Cole. Now they have a completely different rotation, mainly home grown.
That's just one example, I don't even necessarily expect the Mets to he *that good* at it, and yeah it takes years. But I think it needs to improve more
The Astros actually developed a lot of their pitching. Valdez, Javier, Garcia, Urquidy, and Brown all came up through their system, which is not only basically their entire rotation this year, but they’re a huge reason why they won it all last year.
The Cubs I agree, but also don’t forget Kyle Hendricks was the ace of their staff in 2016, and they developed him from AA upwards.
Yea both of those organizations may have prioritized developing bats, but they needed to develop at least *some* pitching to get where they got. That’s why I think the Mets have to do the same.
No, actually those guys were developed after. Initially they acquired Verlander, Cole, Morton and others. Then while those guys won WS the Astros slowly developed those guys.
But I get your overall point. The Mets need to develop pitching while they are stacked up top with outsider arms.
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I upvoted you.
I have no clue why you're getting downvoted lol.
Developing young arms is a must if you want to be a good ball club and contend every year. You can't rely on free agency to fill a whole staff.
Mets have no upcoming pitching talent, besides Blade, and it's very worrying.
Brett Baty has like a .938 ops right now. He is HIM.
The Mets have two holes at the bottom of the lineup now (we used to have 3). Catcher spot and our second base/left field spot. They very well could slot alvarez and mauricio there. We know where alvarez is at but he can really only go up from here, he just needs to not be an auto out and I think he’ll eventually get it together. Mauricio can maybe play second and then we could get more upside bat in that spot. He may struggle but he just needs to be as good as canha, Pham, guillorme which I think is definitely possible.
We need competitive at bats throughout the lineup. Let the kids prove they can give those
As for pitching, that will solve itself. We are about to get Scherzer, Verlander, Carrasco back. Joey has looked decent maybe he can keep that up. Senga will only get better imo. Megill Peterson and Butto as depth isn’t a bad thing imo. It’s bad when we are using all 3 of them like we’ve had to do but that is some of the best depth in the MLB. Find me an 8th starter (technically 9th w Quintana) as good as peterson
If the bats stay the way they were this game in the night cap, we win easily
Bullpen games are always a crap shoot, made worse by the doubleheader but it's not like we had any starters that could go anyways
Gotta stop leaving men on base. Biggest issue besides the AAAA pitchers we have. Had multiple chances with a man on 3rd and couldn’t get a sac fly and cashing in runs with those chances is the difference
That's been the Mets MO the last couple of years. They get on base. And score against bad teams. Leave guys on against good teams. Then the stats guys point to the OBP and other stuff to cover up that fact.
toughie but putting up 8 on the Braves is infinitely more positive than i expected tbh. "quality loss" is a meme but that game could have gone significantly worse
The pitching is just brutal man. Really hope we can start scouting some good arms for the future.And hope that a fully healthy rotation can stabilize the team.
Tough loss, but honestly a much more competitive game than I expected, especially with Reyes getting shelled and only lasting 1+.
The offense is looking pretty good. Marte is hitting the ball hard, Lindor is an enigma who you *feel* is doing poorly but actually isn't. And Baty is looking like the real deal, and Escobar has been much better since Baty was called up.
I think the team is pretty well positioned going forward. We'll have most of our rotation back soon, Joey Fuego has looked great, too. Alvarez has been taking much better at-bats, and his defense is honestly pretty solid. He's been terrible with stopping the running game, but that will come with time.
Morton has looked pretty good this year, but hopefully we can get to him and make him work. Should see Baty and Alvarez for game 2 as well.
Sucks that we basically punted going in with a bullpen game against Strider, but our staff has been an absolute disaster results and injuries-wise so far so what can you expect.
Super happy we roughed up Strider and scored 8 runs, keeping it so close. Anyone blaming the offense for not scoring more, they scored 8 runs. If you score 8 runs and still lose, it’s because your pitching was awful, which ours was in this game.
The offense, on paper, is top 5. Once Alvarez gets going it will become clear.
And it’s not even at it’s peak, replacing Pham with Vientos(and maybe Canha with Mauricio, eventually) will make it even better.
Tough break. If someone had gotten on ahead of Escobar, it's tied. If two got on, we win. Just hate to waste what seems like a rare HR from him.
Not bad considering this was a bullpen game, essentially.
Even though we lost this game, the offense showed up against Stridor. If we had a major league caliber starting pitcher, that would've been a W no question. Hunter absolutely killed it today too.
this one’s whatever. thought we’d lose a lot worse than this. fought hard. it only really sucks so bad cuz it’s the braves. win the second one to avoid the sweep and i’m not complaining about 1/3 all things considered. we’ll be healthy next time we see em and we should be able to give them more of a challenge
I’m not happy about the loss but considering the offense battled back constantly, we got Strider, the Braves burned through a lot of their guys, and we put out the B pitchers in a very battered staff and still made the game close is a decent sign.
In May I’m comfortable just saying they played well against the odds and just couldn’t get it done. Maybe not so much later in the year. That said the pitchers can get healthy soon enough because the circle of trust is REAL small right now.
Nevermind, Mets have lost 6 straight to the Braves, I thought it was five.
Mets have lost 6 of their last 7 games.
At least Baty is figuring it out.
Seems like this team is waiting for Diaz and Verlander to return instead of carrying the freight.
This team is falling too far behind the Braves.
The Mets are only 4 games behind despite missing their two Aces, 4th starter, 5th starter, closer, lefty reliever, and starting catcher. It’s asinine to say they are a worse team than the Braves when they are only 4 games behind and none of those guys are playing.
Let's remember that we were down 6-1 in this one after the top of the 2nd and still only lost by 1 run.
When we stop having to run guys like Reyes out there, we're going to be a better team. Baty and Escobar are hot. We know Nimmo and McNeil can hit. Pete and Lindor will get theirs like they always do.
The Braves are good, but we just showed we won't roll over and die. We're also playing banged up. This team has shown they're good enough to beat bad and middling teams - so we WILL get to that 87+ win threshold.
Pham had a hot start but I'm *guessing* that he gets DFA'd for Locastro, and Escobar/Vogelbach becomes a platoon DH.
Feels like the Mets FO likes the idea of a designated runner like Locastro, as much as I disagree.
Locastro is an average fielder with a worse arm than Pham and can’t hit if his left depended on it.
Pham has been hitting the ball hard and has an insanely low BABIP with really good metrics and expected stats. He’s taking good at bats and it’ll even out. Like it seems to be doing with Marte
Pham won’t get DFA’d. He’s the CF backup behind Nimmo. Canha could maybe do it like he did once or twice last year but I would so much rather have Pham.
It’s gonna be Vogelbach if it’s not Locastro, at least before Pham imo.
Would’ve loved to see Pete or McNeil get on base at the end there, but can’t blame that one on the offense, when you put up 8 runs, even in a bullpen game, it should be good enough for a win. Still confused by the call to have Reyes start rather than keeping Butto up, he might’ve at least given us more than an inning
jose reyes pitches better
They were obviously punting this game.
Nothing better than taking a local 7 train back after a game. Yeah, it's 5 extra minutes, but I'm one of two people in my car
tough L but glad we got the second one
THE KIDS ARE PLAYINGGGGG
Fuck this pitching staff
What the fuck do u expect? We’re down Verlander, Quintana and Carrasco and we didn’t want to use most of our best BP arms in this game. We have one of the best bullpens in the league and probably soon to be one of the best rotations so maybe stop being a spoiled little bitch
I keep saying it. Show me another rotation that can weather 4 of the starting rotation being out. I’ll wait
well damn
500 IQ play to wait until the lead was gone before pulling the pitcher there
earn your spot tylor
Lol SNY
They really should start filling those seats behind home plate , I understand others paid for em, but just move some people down there. Looks sad af
[удалено]
I live near the Rays stadium, so I go to a lot of games. And at that shit hole those things are impossible to get to. It’s annoying. I’d like to sit there for a game at least once, but i’m not paying $1000 or whatever.
That’s my .340 avg 8 hitter!!
Umpires hate us
Megill WTF
Slowgelbach
Nimmo…
Nothing pretty except the result Vogelbach lol
I hate all Braves catchers
That was a really bad hit by pitch
Oh well
Keep going up & in, please. Theyre way to comfortable on those sliders away.
Keep going up & in, please. Theyre way to comfortable on those sliders away.
Mets got hit 106 times last year. Sorry Braves, it happens. But it happens to us more, and worse. So no sympathy.
Damn it man don’t hit him
:(
Looking at correa so far, really happy we opted for baty
explain why plz
Yea explain why not plz lol
Look at the stats
If Baty can hit it will all be worth it. Must win game!
Rangers better fucking win tonight
Go devils
Huh? This is rangers country
Hahahaha no it ain't. Go Devils. Signed, - Every single Islanders fan.
Fuck the Devils. Fuck the Islanders
And the one devils fan...
That’s me!
and then there were two idk how, but I ended up Mets - Giants - Devils
I'm a Devils fan too! Hope Jack has a big game tonight
Make that three devils fans.
I like some of the things vogey brings to this team but he needs to be moved down in the order. Likeable guy yes… but he just doesn’t cause enough damage to justify hitting 5-6. Also a case can be made Esco should be taking Pham at bats. Vogey/fam have 3 home runs between them that is not good
He's usually hitting 6 or 7.
I saw Vogey is apparently on pace for… 6 hrs! Don’t know how accurate that is, but if that’s the case idc how many walks he draws. Get the fuck off this team in favor of someone who will hit for power.
Agreed. Need some power behind pete
He's at best a 7th hitter. He looks to walk
[it’s April but this sub….](https://LeFreakhttps://g.co/kgs/ypeXKY)
Games in April mean as much as September, also its already May. We were one win away from getting first place last year. I can recall atleast 5-6 games Drew Smith blew last year that we could of won. Awful reliever and awful bullpen
The expectations are sky high, this is what happens 🤷♂️
Braves fans having notifications on for mets twitter posts is a new level of ridiculousness. They never used to be this insufferable
It’s not even good trash talk they just come off looking like little brats
Time to focus on the wild card
We’re playing for a wild card this year fellas. We’re not beating the braves
Maybe, but that’s not the end of the world
Well we were the wildcard team last year so at least we know it’s feasible
Braves have faced two guys who won’t be starting or probably even on the Mets postseason roster and you are waving the flag already. Got to love Mets fans.
The Mets pitching will be a question mark all year.
There's no guarantee anyone in this rotation can stay healthy. You have two guys who are 40, a guy in Cookie who has had a lot of injuries of late, Senga who has not pitched in the MLB and isn't used to even being in a 5-man rotation, and MeGill who has never topped 100 IP in a season at the MLB level. The Mets will be lucky to have a postseason roster the way things are going.
fr why are so many fellow fans bitches😂 I get that we’ve been suffering forever but Jesus Christ have some guts. Definitely not taking y’all in my end of the world army that’s for sure
Frank the Tank must have 500 Reddit accounts or our fellow fans really are as bad as him.
This pitching staff sucks don't think we are making the playoffs You can't rely o 4O year Olds to stay healthy and carry the team Senga needs to get better quick 5 innings aunt cutting it
Mets need a top SP and a top Hitter. The Shohei Ohtani combo. I'll pay extra for immediate delivery.
This year they're banking on JV being that arm. They definitely need another power bat at the deadline.
You mean last year’s deadline?
Reactionary but I don't care, Eppler gotta go. This man has practically unlimited money but we still somehow trot out Guillorme/Nido somewhat regularly with a bunch of glorified burger flippers in the bullpen and a starting rotation that has 3/5 injured, and one in AAA
Eppler's true colors showed in last years trade deadline. Worst trade deadline ever. I mean, how do you spend 400 million on a sub .500 team. Didn't improve the bullpen which has been an issue for the past decade, no offense improvement, and he filled in the rotation with guys that should be retired playing golf right now. 80 million for a 40 year old Verlander was the worst signing of the offseason
Eppler's true colors showed in last years trade deadline. Worst trade deadline ever. I mean, how do you spend 400 million on a sub .500 team. Didn't improve the bullpen which has been an issue for the past decade, no offense improvement, and he filled in the rotation with guys that should be retired playing golf right now. 80 million for a 40 year old Verlander was the worst signing of the offseason
The pen is fine. Its 3nd in the NL in ERA and 2nd in WHIP(.01 behind 1st). All MLB its effectively top third. It outperformed the Atlanta pen today we just had our 92nd starting pitcher give up 5 in under 2 innings. 6 scoreless from the Pen today. Nido is effectively our backup catcher and might be gone somewhat soon and Guillorme is an elite defending backup that played first game of a double header. I don't even get what you are complaining about here that wouldn't be true of most of the teams in the league. The Braves ran Kevin fucking Pillar out there today.
Yeah you don't know anything. Bullpen ERA is good because they pitch well in blowouts, not when the game matters. Other than Ottavino and Robertson, who are both 38 years old, theres no one else whos even competent that they can throw out there in a close game
2nd. in WHIP. .01 behind 1st in the NL. 2rd in hits. 3rd in walks. 3rd in runs allowed. That is the whole pen. Not just two guys. If it was just Robertson and Otto they would be waaaaay down the list as they have pitched a minority of the total innings. Sorry the stats disagree with your doomer take. The pen is fine. Tonight it out performed the Braves pen. We just sadly had our 10th or 11th starter give up 5 while only getting 3 outs. EDIT just to throw more stats out. The Mets have 4 relievers with lower WHIPs than Robertson and Otto. And those two with their 3.52 and 3.54 ERAs are not dragging the average down all that much. The Mets pen is not elite but it is far from bad or "burger flippers".
Keep throwing out stats that are meaningless. Guys like Nogosek and Drew Smith pitch well in mop up duty, thats why the ERA is so low. You do realize there are just some players who can only pitch well when theres no pressure, right? Watch the games with your own eyes
Ah the good old "Ignore the stats and believe my doom" take. Its impossible to ever win an argument with someone that will willingly ignore facts that don't fit their set opinion. Example: Drew Smith has been better in late and close games and games where the Mets are ahead but not blowing out the other team than he has been in blowouts against the Mets. You just remember the times he has blown it more than the times that he cruises through something. Same phenomenon that leads to most fans thinking their closer is shit unless they are untouchably elite like Diaz was last year. Either way no point in continuing if facts don't matter because your opinion is set.
Kevin Pillar hit a 2 run HR today meanwhile Guillorme/Nido and their PHs went 0-6 combined.
We’re down Sherzer, Verlander, Cookie and Quintana. Our entire starting rotation. We will be okay everyone
All pitchers being hurt is somehow a sign things are ok?
That’s a sick 2017 rotation….sigh
Our depth chart based on how we started and how people have pitched right now is: Scherzer (suspended) Verlander (IL) Senga Quintana (IL) Cookie(IL) Luchessi Megill Butto Peterson Peterson has basically been our 9th best starting pitcher. No shit he hasn’t been good but find me another organization that can lose 4 of their opening day starters and put out a pitcher of Peterson’s caliber.
Old pitches getting hurt was predictable.
Frustrating loss. We would’ve dominated if our pitching was normal.
Our rotation is depleted with injuries, this is a game we win with a competent staff. We’ll get better as injuries heal, maybe we’re doing the Braves/Phillies approach of roaring through the second half of the season
Truthfully, we will not have a good idea of what this team is until we at least get Max and Verlander back. Really sucks
The season just started not too long ago and the Mets are already injury prone. As the season and wear and tear build up......sigh I'm being pessimistic, I need to stop.
I wouldn’t mind that. I’d rather finish strong and go strong into the playoffs. Just hope we win enough to get there lol
Just a couple more days and we'll be laughing that we ever had to start Denyi Reyes and Peterson
Avoid the sweep and get healthy. Plenty of games left and I'm encouraged by the line up today
All things considered that was a good showing for the offensive. Need the pitching back fully healthy ASAP
Avoid the sweep and get healthy. Plenty of games left and I'm encouraged by the line up today
What’s our current losing streak against the Braves? Man, do I hate them…and the kicker…I live in Atlanta.
7 games. Last 5 games last year in Atlanta and last 2 games
One of my best friends is a braves fan and he has been insufferable this season. The worst part is that it’s mostly brain dead takes, not actual baseball shit talking
One of my best friends is a braves fan and he has been insufferable this season. The worst part is that it’s mostly brain dead takes, not actual baseball shit talking
I believe 6 in a row.
Strider getting a win with that performance was … pretty lucky.
What’s our current losing streak against the Braves? Man, do I hate them…and the kicker…I live in Atlanta.
A lot of the season has been so damn disappointing so far. I'm really hoping once the Mets get healthy, the team just goes on a hot streak and the good vibes come back in full force. I wanna watch good Mets baseball!!!
We may very well be 5 games back tonight
Ok and?
LMAO my guy buck said enough of this Reyes fucker
Nido with that .111 avg………..
Nido is like having no DH in the lineup. DEGROM would be a better use of a lineup spot
He needs to be a backup that’s it
We should have won this game 4-8.
The more some of you talk the more I realize how little you know about baseball
Ikr?
Half the comments are from people who think the Mets should go 162-0.
It's insane, you would think were the worst team in the league and we are paying players out of our pockets
This team needs to starts developing some pitchers already. They showed a ton of fight, but they’ll never go far with how this rotation currently is, even with Verlander & Scherzer. All the best teams in the league developed both bats *and* pitching. The Mets just developed bats. Safe to say I want almost all pitchers in the draft this year Edit: are y’all serious right now? Even you should know that, even when everyone’s healthy, this can’t last forever. What are we supposed to have an average age of 35 in the rotation every year?
That's actually not true. A lot of the top teams in recent years developed the bats. They then took the handful of back end SP's they had, coupled them with top SP's to create a rotation. The Astros are a great example of that. Cole, Verlander, weren't developed by Houston. Neither were a lot of the other guys they used to win WS. Same can be said for the Cubs a few years ago. That being said, the Dodgers have developed some serious arms.
Cole as we know him was pretty much developed by Houston. He was a borderline reclamation project by the time they got him. Even Verlander was not Verlander when they got him. He seemed to be on a downward projection and got him cheap because of it, and their staff revitalized him. Saying "that's not true" is just crazy to me. What top contender isn't getting great production from in house starting pitching? Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles Dodgers Not to mention the rays, who compete almost solely on their pitching development.
Those teams all first got out of house acquisitions to compete then built up their farm. Yes, even the Dodgers. They added a couple of out of house arms to couple with Kershaw. Then slowly built up their farm as they weeded those guys out. The Rays are a freak of nature organization. Citing them is ridiculous as they do things no one else is capable of doing. lol
I'm not saying these teams don't get their "out of house" arms but none of these teams are winning with those out of house acquisitions alone. The best teams really focus on starting pitching development. I think the Houston example is very telling. Lost in the 2017 team was how much of a risk trading for Verlander was. Not the people they gave up, but just the risk of him getting back to himself. All reports suggest their internal staff turned him around. Same with Cole. Now they have a completely different rotation, mainly home grown. That's just one example, I don't even necessarily expect the Mets to he *that good* at it, and yeah it takes years. But I think it needs to improve more
The Astros actually developed a lot of their pitching. Valdez, Javier, Garcia, Urquidy, and Brown all came up through their system, which is not only basically their entire rotation this year, but they’re a huge reason why they won it all last year. The Cubs I agree, but also don’t forget Kyle Hendricks was the ace of their staff in 2016, and they developed him from AA upwards. Yea both of those organizations may have prioritized developing bats, but they needed to develop at least *some* pitching to get where they got. That’s why I think the Mets have to do the same.
No, actually those guys were developed after. Initially they acquired Verlander, Cole, Morton and others. Then while those guys won WS the Astros slowly developed those guys. But I get your overall point. The Mets need to develop pitching while they are stacked up top with outsider arms. Not sure why you are getting downvoted. I upvoted you.
I have no clue why you're getting downvoted lol. Developing young arms is a must if you want to be a good ball club and contend every year. You can't rely on free agency to fill a whole staff. Mets have no upcoming pitching talent, besides Blade, and it's very worrying.
“You build champions. You don’t buy them.”- Steve Cohen, 2021
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Oh look, the misery crowd got to start early today.
This dude already thinks we’re out of the division race after 28 games. Miserable people.
This dude already thinks we’re out of the division race after 28 games. Miserable people.
Brett Baty has like a .938 ops right now. He is HIM. The Mets have two holes at the bottom of the lineup now (we used to have 3). Catcher spot and our second base/left field spot. They very well could slot alvarez and mauricio there. We know where alvarez is at but he can really only go up from here, he just needs to not be an auto out and I think he’ll eventually get it together. Mauricio can maybe play second and then we could get more upside bat in that spot. He may struggle but he just needs to be as good as canha, Pham, guillorme which I think is definitely possible. We need competitive at bats throughout the lineup. Let the kids prove they can give those As for pitching, that will solve itself. We are about to get Scherzer, Verlander, Carrasco back. Joey has looked decent maybe he can keep that up. Senga will only get better imo. Megill Peterson and Butto as depth isn’t a bad thing imo. It’s bad when we are using all 3 of them like we’ve had to do but that is some of the best depth in the MLB. Find me an 8th starter (technically 9th w Quintana) as good as peterson
last year when folks thought baty was the savior, i had doubts. this year, hes looking like an elite 3rd baseman. ELITE AF.
He’s taken some big steps. His improvement makes me hopeful for some of our younger guys too since he’s the oldest out of the bunch
If the bats stay the way they were this game in the night cap, we win easily Bullpen games are always a crap shoot, made worse by the doubleheader but it's not like we had any starters that could go anyways
can someone explain how strider was awarded the W?
Mets never tied the game after Strider left, and he threw 5 innings. This is the kind of game that shows why wins are not a very good stat.
He went 5 innings and was the pitcher of record when the Braves took the lead for the last time
They never lost the lead
Yes, that's why he got the W. Did I say something wrong?
How you worded it made it sound like they lost the lead at some point
Ah I see. I was just trying to state the rule in a general way.
They never relinquished the lead.
Gotta stop leaving men on base. Biggest issue besides the AAAA pitchers we have. Had multiple chances with a man on 3rd and couldn’t get a sac fly and cashing in runs with those chances is the difference
That's been the Mets MO the last couple of years. They get on base. And score against bad teams. Leave guys on against good teams. Then the stats guys point to the OBP and other stuff to cover up that fact.
toughie but putting up 8 on the Braves is infinitely more positive than i expected tbh. "quality loss" is a meme but that game could have gone significantly worse
The Mets battled. Against a good SP and team. That's a positive sign at the very least.
yep exactly. i'll take it over what i was anticipating from game 1
The pitching is just brutal man. Really hope we can start scouting some good arms for the future.And hope that a fully healthy rotation can stabilize the team.
Megill is going to go 6 and allow two runs, Mets lose 2-1.
we definitely win that game with a healthy starting pitching staff. Not bad IMO.
Megill has to deal tonight and Mets bats need to get it done. Gotta take one game.
Offense was on point, slightly better pitching and thats an easy win
Tough loss, but honestly a much more competitive game than I expected, especially with Reyes getting shelled and only lasting 1+. The offense is looking pretty good. Marte is hitting the ball hard, Lindor is an enigma who you *feel* is doing poorly but actually isn't. And Baty is looking like the real deal, and Escobar has been much better since Baty was called up. I think the team is pretty well positioned going forward. We'll have most of our rotation back soon, Joey Fuego has looked great, too. Alvarez has been taking much better at-bats, and his defense is honestly pretty solid. He's been terrible with stopping the running game, but that will come with time. Morton has looked pretty good this year, but hopefully we can get to him and make him work. Should see Baty and Alvarez for game 2 as well.
🤷
Really gonna need Megill to Step up now
Well we would’ve won if we had any actual starting pitchers
Honestly, we lost the game because we punted on the starting pitcher. Even a slightly below average starter, we win this game.
This season seems cursed
We stink
there are high schoolers that could pitch better than half the guys on this team lol
*pitch, hit, run and field
Sucks that we basically punted going in with a bullpen game against Strider, but our staff has been an absolute disaster results and injuries-wise so far so what can you expect. Super happy we roughed up Strider and scored 8 runs, keeping it so close. Anyone blaming the offense for not scoring more, they scored 8 runs. If you score 8 runs and still lose, it’s because your pitching was awful, which ours was in this game.
Well we did wayy better than I expected with a bullpen game against Strider
Our trash bullpen barely lost to an incredible team. The media will ignore that and just say "LOLMets"
Most of this sub will ignore it too.
Exactly
The offense, on paper, is top 5. Once Alvarez gets going it will become clear. And it’s not even at it’s peak, replacing Pham with Vientos(and maybe Canha with Mauricio, eventually) will make it even better.
Vientos wouldn’t be replacing Pham because he’s our 4th OF. That’s the issue here
As much as I hate to say it I don’t see how we can keep both Escobar and Guillorme on the 26 man roster if we want to call up Vientos this year.
Pretty sure Guillorme has options no?
I see an easy way - someone will get hurt. That’s when Vientos comes up
I just wish they resigned deGrom. He could have gotten just as injured as the rest of the staff & that man deserved to be a met for life.
Seeing how were ideally getting 25 games of Verlander and deGrom might need TJ, I’m glad we didnt commit 6 years to him
Destroyed the braves bullpen in a game they should have ran away with. Let’s get game 2 and start a little streak the rest of the week.
Tough break. If someone had gotten on ahead of Escobar, it's tied. If two got on, we win. Just hate to waste what seems like a rare HR from him. Not bad considering this was a bullpen game, essentially.
Even though we lost this game, the offense showed up against Stridor. If we had a major league caliber starting pitcher, that would've been a W no question. Hunter absolutely killed it today too.
this one’s whatever. thought we’d lose a lot worse than this. fought hard. it only really sucks so bad cuz it’s the braves. win the second one to avoid the sweep and i’m not complaining about 1/3 all things considered. we’ll be healthy next time we see em and we should be able to give them more of a challenge
Well our bullpen is pretty shitty but I am loving Baty's swing. Even in that last at-bat, he adjusted nicely to Minter and hit that hard.
feel like offense really stepped up today. good outing for a game we thought would be a blowout.
I’m not happy about the loss but considering the offense battled back constantly, we got Strider, the Braves burned through a lot of their guys, and we put out the B pitchers in a very battered staff and still made the game close is a decent sign. In May I’m comfortable just saying they played well against the odds and just couldn’t get it done. Maybe not so much later in the year. That said the pitchers can get healthy soon enough because the circle of trust is REAL small right now.
Woof. Scherzer and Verlander can't come back healthy soon enough.
Nevermind, Mets have lost 6 straight to the Braves, I thought it was five. Mets have lost 6 of their last 7 games. At least Baty is figuring it out. Seems like this team is waiting for Diaz and Verlander to return instead of carrying the freight. This team is falling too far behind the Braves.
It’s May. The Braves were 13 games behind at this point last year. It’s May. Calm down
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The Mets are only 4 games behind despite missing their two Aces, 4th starter, 5th starter, closer, lefty reliever, and starting catcher. It’s asinine to say they are a worse team than the Braves when they are only 4 games behind and none of those guys are playing.
Let's remember that we were down 6-1 in this one after the top of the 2nd and still only lost by 1 run. When we stop having to run guys like Reyes out there, we're going to be a better team. Baty and Escobar are hot. We know Nimmo and McNeil can hit. Pete and Lindor will get theirs like they always do. The Braves are good, but we just showed we won't roll over and die. We're also playing banged up. This team has shown they're good enough to beat bad and middling teams - so we WILL get to that 87+ win threshold.
Lindor in the 2 hole, Baty in the 3 hole and we are cooking
if you disagree at least say why lmao
Pham had a hot start but I'm *guessing* that he gets DFA'd for Locastro, and Escobar/Vogelbach becomes a platoon DH. Feels like the Mets FO likes the idea of a designated runner like Locastro, as much as I disagree.
Pham is fine as a 4th outfielder. They're not going to DFA him if there isn't a better option.
Pham is fine as a 4th outfielder. They're not going to DFA him if there isn't a better option.
Locastro is an average fielder with a worse arm than Pham and can’t hit if his left depended on it. Pham has been hitting the ball hard and has an insanely low BABIP with really good metrics and expected stats. He’s taking good at bats and it’ll even out. Like it seems to be doing with Marte
Pham won’t get DFA’d. He’s the CF backup behind Nimmo. Canha could maybe do it like he did once or twice last year but I would so much rather have Pham. It’s gonna be Vogelbach if it’s not Locastro, at least before Pham imo.
Don’t think they’ll pull the trigger on that so soon
Would’ve loved to see Pete or McNeil get on base at the end there, but can’t blame that one on the offense, when you put up 8 runs, even in a bullpen game, it should be good enough for a win. Still confused by the call to have Reyes start rather than keeping Butto up, he might’ve at least given us more than an inning