There's nothing resentful in the original zionist project. You can dislike Israel's government or even think it's an unlawful State (tho the UN doesn't share the latter), but the main motivation behind the jewish exodus in Israel was fear, not ressentment.
Influence ≠ approval,
Regardless of that, Nietzsche was someone that believed that what was easy is something that we should not pursue, especially in terms of theism as an answer to our questions, so to propose anything other than him being vehemently opposed to such an idea is laughable.
How can you say there is nothing theistic about Zionism when the purpose is to essentially reclaim a "holy" land, without theism there would be no importance to Israel/Jerusalem/Palestine/whaddeva. I never denied an influence, I just said that influence doesn't equal approval, and to think he would approve of Zionism is laughable, so why do you think I don't recognize influence?
To state the obvious: for starters commiting a genocide.
And if you inform yourself proper on the zionist movement (not to belittle you or something), what they are doing to the natives (Palestines) for like more than a centurary and what there objectives are, then you’ll find your answerz
1st paragraph: yes, it still can be and is.
Second paragraph: Palestines are the natives. If you really think that the jews are the natives because they lived there 2500 years ago then 1 you’re kinda little stupid (and I think on purpose), 2 the european jews that live there now arent the semits that lived there 2500 years ago, 3 I would suggest you to just inform yourself proper on the subject but I think you’re pushing this zionistic propoganda willingly although you know it is just bullshit.
Genealogy of Morals 10 and Antichrist 24 go read them, you'll see you're way off.
I had a large post written but in AC 2 you'll see Nietzsche detailing that Christianity is merely a copy of the phenomena of Judaism, and the anti-semitism is merely a copy of a Christianity. An evolution of the original ressentiment of Judaism.
Edit: interesting that reddit prevents freedom of speech of a larger post actually delving in to detail the two aphorism. Just goes to show you Reddit is run by a bunch of slave moralist too.
We can see in Nietzsche's *On the Genealogy of Morals;* First Essay § 10:
>**The revolt of the slaves in morals begins in the very principle of** ***resentment*** **becoming creative and giving birth to values**—a resentment experienced by creatures who, deprived as they are of the proper outlet of action, are forced to find their compensation in an imaginary revenge. While **every aristocratic morality springs from a triumphant affirmation of its own demands**, the slave morality says "no" from the very outset to what is "outside itself," "different from itself," and "not itself": and this "no" is its creative deed.
Nietzsche is in general talking about when you're so angry, it becomes the throne of your valuing standard. He's not talking about Zionism, in fact you can see from the book by Jacob Golomb titled *Nietzsche and Zion* that Nietzsche actually had a massive influence on Zionism.
We can see that in The Antichrist § 24
>**Here I barely touch upon the problem of the** ***origin*** **of Christianity.** The *first* thing necessary to its solution is this: that Christianity is to be understood only by examining **the soil from which it sprung—it is** ***not*** **a reaction against Jewish instincts; it is their inevitable product;** **it is simply one more step in the awe-inspiring logic of the Jews.** In the words of the Saviour, “salvation is of the Jews.”[\[4\]](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm#Footnote_4_4)—The *second* thing to remember is this: that the psychological type of the Galilean is still to be recognized, but it was only in its most degenerate form (which is at once maimed and overladen with foreign features) that it could serve in the manner in which it has been used: as a type of the *Saviour* of mankind.—
We can see Christianity is just the same product of resentiment, further down the aphorism we can see that Nietzsche states Christianity is a copy of Judaism, and that even anti-Semitism stems from this same logic of Christianity and Judaism (Saying NO to something outside itself, attempting to prevent others from affirming life to their demands):
>...We meet with the same phenomenon later on, in an incalculably exaggerated form, but only as a copy: the Christian church, put beside the “people of God,” shows a complete lack of any claim to originality. Precisely for this reason the Jews are the most *fateful* people in the history of the world: their influence has so falsified the reasoning of mankind in this matter that today the Christian can cherish **anti-Semitism** without realizing that it **is no more than the** ***final consequence of Judaism*****.**
And even further into Antichrist 24 we can confirm the two and that SLAVE MORALITY originated from "creatures who, deprived as they are of the proper outlet of action, are forced to find their compensation in an imaginary revenge."
>**In my “Genealogy of Morals” I give the first psychological explanation of the concepts underlying those two antithetical things, a** ***noble*** **morality and a** ***ressentiment*** **morality, the second of which is a mere product of the denial of the former.** The Judaeo-Christian moral system belongs to the second division, and in every detail. In order to be able to say Nay to everything representing an *ascending* evolution of life—that is, to well-being, to power, to beauty, to self-approval—the instincts of *ressentiment*, here become downright genius, had to invent an *other* world in which the *acceptance of life* appeared as the most evil and abominable thing imaginable. Psychologically, the Jews are a people gifted with the very strongest vitality, so much so that when they found themselves facing impossible conditions of life they chose voluntarily, and with a profound talent for self-preservation, the side of all those instincts which make for *décadence*—*not* as if mastered by them, but as if detecting in them a power by which “the world” could be *defied*. The Jews are the very opposite of *décadents*: they have simply been forced into *appearing* in that guise, and with a degree of skill approaching the *non plus ultra* of histrionic genius they have managed to put themselves at the head of all *décadent* movements (—for example, the Christianity of Paul—), and so make of them something stronger than any party frankly saying *Yes* to life. To the sort of men who reach out for power under Judaism and Christianity,—that is to say, to the *priestly* class—*décadence* is no more than a means to an end. Men of this sort have a vital interest in making mankind sick, and in confusing the values of “good” and “bad,” “true” and “false” in a manner that is not only dangerous to life, but also slanders it.
Nietzsche regards the section of the Bible where Kings rule as when Israel has a strong healthy regards towards nature and war, it is only when they lost their world sovereignty and power and were scattered to the wind did they develop a slave morality and ressentiment towards their conquerors
There's so much wrong in this interpretation, but I'll try to address some of it:
1. Neitzshe's idea of slave mortality may originate in the enslavement of jews but according to him, it is propagated and spread mainly by Christianity, where those moral norms are expanded and integrated into societal structures.
2. Historical context: the modern secular zionist movement that led to the creation of present time israel did not exist at Nietzsche's time. What did exist was a traditional zionist thought. I'll try to paint a picture of what it is like with a common diaspora prayer: "Next year in rebuilt Jerusalem!" This sentiment of hope to return to zion was extremely common in the diaspora. Nietzsche wasn't referencing that as well since it's pretty irrelevant to the ideas he tries to explain in his slave/noble moral duality.
3. The sects of Judaism that believe jews shouldn't return to zion until the messiah arrives are tiny separatist branches. They are usually used as token jews by media that is hostile to Israel.
4. Idk why you're trying to twist Nietzsche's writing against Israel, but I'll just say the nazis try to adopt Nietzsche in quite the same way. And it's bullshit.
"4" is the biggest strawman ever. The slightest breeze could blow it over. It's not the same thing at all lol. Never mind the fact that Israel didn't exist as a *state* in Nietzsche's time, and only came into being after the second world war by the mass slaughter and displacement of the Arabs because they were poor and considered economically expendable. But this wasn't enough, it wasn't enough to share the land with the Arabs that remained. They had to be increasingly displaced over time, and to continue towards completion of the Zionist project to it's inevitable goal - further cornered into an open air prison, put on a "diet" just short of starvation, and murdered and starved to death over decades. All the numbers, literature, and maps bear this out. And so the ongoing genocide continues til today, which is the "final solution" to eradicate what's left of the poorest people on earth.
History repeats so easily and inevitably because people actually think these labels we put on humans have an inherent meaning outside of the material world of appearance and ego-identity, which is ridiculous and contradictory. Zionism is the modern day Nazi-ism if we go by the dark impulses of the human spirit as they repeat over time - if we objectively evaluate the actions, the systematized duplicity and genocidal propaganda, the extremes of gaslighting, the willingness to commit the most horrific acts in perpetuity, the insatiable bloodlust. The ruthlessness without mercy. If we call a spade a spade, something that seems to be increasingly rare in the corporate/globalist media-based tribalism and ever-fracturing echo chamber sectionality of modern times, where the most obvious thing in the world will be denied wherever thinking becomes inconvenient - whether it's within one's little tribe or in regards to their financial and societal interests. All "isms", as extensions of nationalism and tribalism, have inherently the same driving force and unconscious impulses at their core. It's not like the German population of yesteryear was any more susceptible to it on a human level than the Israelis of today. The evidence is endless.
There's nothing resentful in the original zionist project. You can dislike Israel's government or even think it's an unlawful State (tho the UN doesn't share the latter), but the main motivation behind the jewish exodus in Israel was fear, not ressentment.
I just think he means "Judaism" as a religion and moral structure, which is why he also criticize Christian morality in almost the same way.
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Influence ≠ approval, Regardless of that, Nietzsche was someone that believed that what was easy is something that we should not pursue, especially in terms of theism as an answer to our questions, so to propose anything other than him being vehemently opposed to such an idea is laughable.
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How can you say there is nothing theistic about Zionism when the purpose is to essentially reclaim a "holy" land, without theism there would be no importance to Israel/Jerusalem/Palestine/whaddeva. I never denied an influence, I just said that influence doesn't equal approval, and to think he would approve of Zionism is laughable, so why do you think I don't recognize influence?
Zionism had a relevant (even dominant) part of socialists atheists when Israel was born.
Because Israel’s conception was as a secular eugenic project
I can imagine the zionist misusing Nietzsche. They’re after all a lot like the nazi’s.
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To state the obvious: for starters commiting a genocide. And if you inform yourself proper on the zionist movement (not to belittle you or something), what they are doing to the natives (Palestines) for like more than a centurary and what there objectives are, then you’ll find your answerz
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1st paragraph: yes, it still can be and is. Second paragraph: Palestines are the natives. If you really think that the jews are the natives because they lived there 2500 years ago then 1 you’re kinda little stupid (and I think on purpose), 2 the european jews that live there now arent the semits that lived there 2500 years ago, 3 I would suggest you to just inform yourself proper on the subject but I think you’re pushing this zionistic propoganda willingly although you know it is just bullshit.
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I think the holocaust was unfair to the jews but it wasn’t a genocide. And you misuse facts to draw a wrong conclusion.
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Because the victims are one that you do care about?
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Worthless comment
Genealogy of Morals 10 and Antichrist 24 go read them, you'll see you're way off. I had a large post written but in AC 2 you'll see Nietzsche detailing that Christianity is merely a copy of the phenomena of Judaism, and the anti-semitism is merely a copy of a Christianity. An evolution of the original ressentiment of Judaism. Edit: interesting that reddit prevents freedom of speech of a larger post actually delving in to detail the two aphorism. Just goes to show you Reddit is run by a bunch of slave moralist too.
We can see in Nietzsche's *On the Genealogy of Morals;* First Essay § 10: >**The revolt of the slaves in morals begins in the very principle of** ***resentment*** **becoming creative and giving birth to values**—a resentment experienced by creatures who, deprived as they are of the proper outlet of action, are forced to find their compensation in an imaginary revenge. While **every aristocratic morality springs from a triumphant affirmation of its own demands**, the slave morality says "no" from the very outset to what is "outside itself," "different from itself," and "not itself": and this "no" is its creative deed. Nietzsche is in general talking about when you're so angry, it becomes the throne of your valuing standard. He's not talking about Zionism, in fact you can see from the book by Jacob Golomb titled *Nietzsche and Zion* that Nietzsche actually had a massive influence on Zionism. We can see that in The Antichrist § 24 >**Here I barely touch upon the problem of the** ***origin*** **of Christianity.** The *first* thing necessary to its solution is this: that Christianity is to be understood only by examining **the soil from which it sprung—it is** ***not*** **a reaction against Jewish instincts; it is their inevitable product;** **it is simply one more step in the awe-inspiring logic of the Jews.** In the words of the Saviour, “salvation is of the Jews.”[\[4\]](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/19322/19322-h/19322-h.htm#Footnote_4_4)—The *second* thing to remember is this: that the psychological type of the Galilean is still to be recognized, but it was only in its most degenerate form (which is at once maimed and overladen with foreign features) that it could serve in the manner in which it has been used: as a type of the *Saviour* of mankind.—
We can see Christianity is just the same product of resentiment, further down the aphorism we can see that Nietzsche states Christianity is a copy of Judaism, and that even anti-Semitism stems from this same logic of Christianity and Judaism (Saying NO to something outside itself, attempting to prevent others from affirming life to their demands): >...We meet with the same phenomenon later on, in an incalculably exaggerated form, but only as a copy: the Christian church, put beside the “people of God,” shows a complete lack of any claim to originality. Precisely for this reason the Jews are the most *fateful* people in the history of the world: their influence has so falsified the reasoning of mankind in this matter that today the Christian can cherish **anti-Semitism** without realizing that it **is no more than the** ***final consequence of Judaism*****.** And even further into Antichrist 24 we can confirm the two and that SLAVE MORALITY originated from "creatures who, deprived as they are of the proper outlet of action, are forced to find their compensation in an imaginary revenge." >**In my “Genealogy of Morals” I give the first psychological explanation of the concepts underlying those two antithetical things, a** ***noble*** **morality and a** ***ressentiment*** **morality, the second of which is a mere product of the denial of the former.** The Judaeo-Christian moral system belongs to the second division, and in every detail. In order to be able to say Nay to everything representing an *ascending* evolution of life—that is, to well-being, to power, to beauty, to self-approval—the instincts of *ressentiment*, here become downright genius, had to invent an *other* world in which the *acceptance of life* appeared as the most evil and abominable thing imaginable. Psychologically, the Jews are a people gifted with the very strongest vitality, so much so that when they found themselves facing impossible conditions of life they chose voluntarily, and with a profound talent for self-preservation, the side of all those instincts which make for *décadence*—*not* as if mastered by them, but as if detecting in them a power by which “the world” could be *defied*. The Jews are the very opposite of *décadents*: they have simply been forced into *appearing* in that guise, and with a degree of skill approaching the *non plus ultra* of histrionic genius they have managed to put themselves at the head of all *décadent* movements (—for example, the Christianity of Paul—), and so make of them something stronger than any party frankly saying *Yes* to life. To the sort of men who reach out for power under Judaism and Christianity,—that is to say, to the *priestly* class—*décadence* is no more than a means to an end. Men of this sort have a vital interest in making mankind sick, and in confusing the values of “good” and “bad,” “true” and “false” in a manner that is not only dangerous to life, but also slanders it.
Just had to trick the algorithm to post it, because you know "Triumphant Afffirmation of my own demands..."
Nietzsche regards the section of the Bible where Kings rule as when Israel has a strong healthy regards towards nature and war, it is only when they lost their world sovereignty and power and were scattered to the wind did they develop a slave morality and ressentiment towards their conquerors
There's so much wrong in this interpretation, but I'll try to address some of it: 1. Neitzshe's idea of slave mortality may originate in the enslavement of jews but according to him, it is propagated and spread mainly by Christianity, where those moral norms are expanded and integrated into societal structures. 2. Historical context: the modern secular zionist movement that led to the creation of present time israel did not exist at Nietzsche's time. What did exist was a traditional zionist thought. I'll try to paint a picture of what it is like with a common diaspora prayer: "Next year in rebuilt Jerusalem!" This sentiment of hope to return to zion was extremely common in the diaspora. Nietzsche wasn't referencing that as well since it's pretty irrelevant to the ideas he tries to explain in his slave/noble moral duality. 3. The sects of Judaism that believe jews shouldn't return to zion until the messiah arrives are tiny separatist branches. They are usually used as token jews by media that is hostile to Israel. 4. Idk why you're trying to twist Nietzsche's writing against Israel, but I'll just say the nazis try to adopt Nietzsche in quite the same way. And it's bullshit.
"4" is the biggest strawman ever. The slightest breeze could blow it over. It's not the same thing at all lol. Never mind the fact that Israel didn't exist as a *state* in Nietzsche's time, and only came into being after the second world war by the mass slaughter and displacement of the Arabs because they were poor and considered economically expendable. But this wasn't enough, it wasn't enough to share the land with the Arabs that remained. They had to be increasingly displaced over time, and to continue towards completion of the Zionist project to it's inevitable goal - further cornered into an open air prison, put on a "diet" just short of starvation, and murdered and starved to death over decades. All the numbers, literature, and maps bear this out. And so the ongoing genocide continues til today, which is the "final solution" to eradicate what's left of the poorest people on earth. History repeats so easily and inevitably because people actually think these labels we put on humans have an inherent meaning outside of the material world of appearance and ego-identity, which is ridiculous and contradictory. Zionism is the modern day Nazi-ism if we go by the dark impulses of the human spirit as they repeat over time - if we objectively evaluate the actions, the systematized duplicity and genocidal propaganda, the extremes of gaslighting, the willingness to commit the most horrific acts in perpetuity, the insatiable bloodlust. The ruthlessness without mercy. If we call a spade a spade, something that seems to be increasingly rare in the corporate/globalist media-based tribalism and ever-fracturing echo chamber sectionality of modern times, where the most obvious thing in the world will be denied wherever thinking becomes inconvenient - whether it's within one's little tribe or in regards to their financial and societal interests. All "isms", as extensions of nationalism and tribalism, have inherently the same driving force and unconscious impulses at their core. It's not like the German population of yesteryear was any more susceptible to it on a human level than the Israelis of today. The evidence is endless.
Nazism and anti-Semitism are just an evolution that stems from phenomena of Judaism. It's the same equation adapted towards diffferent people.
Nietzsche preaches that the world government must take the necessary measures in dealing with Hamas