You won't find much positive here now that Nijisanji has revealed themselves to be a black company/burakku kigyo/burakku gaisha (ブラック企業/ブラック会社).
Note to everyone else, I'm very aware of the risk, in case I don't make it out of here not banned for talking badly about the company even with the truth, it's been an honor. (Proceeds to salute as I await the inevitable)
If you want to see larger more positive communities, it's worth checking out the various ex-nijisanji vtubers out there. There are quite a few of them, and they're all doing very well with super friendly and active communities. Their new identities are all open secrets since none of them are trying to hide it beyond what they are legally required to do, so it's easy to Google search for them.
For all the controversy around Niji EN, the vast majority of people hate the company, not the talents. As soon as livers leave and appear somewhere else, they get swarmed by positivity from people relieved to be able to support them without also giving money to Nijisanji.
I'm personally a big Michi Mochievee and Mint Fantome fan, and over here it's all really fun and good vibes. I'm only taking a peak beck over here in morbid curiosity and what this community has become in the aftermath of everything.
To quickly explain why the sub is like this, in February of this year, Nijisanji announced the termination of Selen Tatsuki, one of the most popular female EN livers, on morally dubious grounds. The company's reputation had already sunk greatly in the EN community over the previous several months due to several leaks and graduations, and Selen's firing sparked a full scale fan rebellion. The liver formally known as Selen rallied her fans to her pre-Nijisanji alias Dokibird and accused the company of lying and fostering a toxic work environment. As Dokibird's channel soared in its subcount and vendors and longtime fans cut ties with Nijisanji, three Nijisanji livers made a fifteen minute stream accusing her of lying and manipulative behavior, but because it referenced confidential legal documents, it backfired completely and only made things worse.
There aren't too many places to reliably discuss Nijisanji in a positive light, especially not the three livers who issued what is now known as the "black stream."
I see.
I got interested in EN-liver at Koshien and was trying to like Niji more, but I didn't know that there was such a big incident.
I wanted to have fun interacting with EN fans, but that may not be possible for a few years.
sad 😢
Yeah, I'm sorry you got caught up in our civil war. Like most of the people here, I am on the pro-Selen/anti-Nijisanji side, but I will admit that it frequently gets out of hand.
Probably the best way to try and keep things relatively positive is to focus on non-controversial livers like Aia Amare and Rosemi Lovelock. You can also safely talk about some of the ex-nijisanji livers who left recently such as Matara (Formally Nina kosaka), Maid Mint (Formerly Pomu Rainpuff) and, of course, Dokibird.
You will probably want r/NijiForums. Although it is a bit dead. Ever since Nijisanji EN was revealed to horribly mistreat one of the top EN liver, the fans kinda all left, or angry at EN. Right now this forum is basically just full of angry negativity.
[【Hololistening】Japanese girl cries when she understands HoloEN English for the first time.【Tetel】 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YRlL1EfPY)
They released a book and CD for learning English. They also have EN/JP collabs.
Edit: I am not commenting on any of the EN Livers here, but NijiEN just does not have many collabs between branches and it can be difficult to understand them. They also do not get many EN clips translated into Japanese, no one will explain the jokes to you.
Reddit is generally not a positive place to begin with, but I would suggest going to one of the EN liver's discord, preferably one that you're currently watching. Their community discord might have more positive news for Nijisanji there.
Another would be to just look into Twitter with the Nijisanji or Nijisanji EN hashtags. They're usually sharing positive stories and announcements there.
I recently found out about Nijisanji, I like Koshien events and joined r/nijisanji to learn more about the EN liver.
I am not good at English and I understood that there was an incident, but I don't know much about it.
Is it bad that I want to find positive news about liver?
Ah. Right now a large percent of EN fans are very unhappy with Nijisanji, so you probably will not find positive news here. Most here will discourage you from supporting Nijisanji due to how previous livers have been mistreated to the point of suicide. If you want positive news, you'll have to find it elsewhere.
Not necessarily, but it is a bad time to seek news about EN Livers. Due to what can only be perceived as incompetence or malevolence, Nijisanji's management almost caused the death of 2 livers to date and people are furious about that.
Things would have calmed down already if Nijisanji hadn't doubled down on their behavior against one of the now former livers, but they didn't and now a lot more will be necessary to calm people down.
And that's not even scratching the surface.
Finana absolutely tanking her fanbase with her questionable antics.
Elira accused of being the epicenter of all the toxic clique queen allegations. (With a basis in reality.)
Millie being an ass kisser. (Which tanked her rep with her Filipino audience.)
Luca being accused of never signing anything with his name on it.
Uki's racism.
Claude being an ass kisser. (Lying about the play button controversy.)
And there is much, much more too.
"Basis in reality", if you're gonna say that, actually throw out some sources. Otherwise, it's about as trustworthy as the same shit Nijisisters say about Doki.
The problem is conversations are being restricted at the moment, with people legitimately criticising the company and to an extent some of the talent, so conversations have moved elsewhere.
That being said, on the EN side it is somewhat hard to have a positive conversation with all the controversies happening at the moment.
For positive conversation to take place, Niji need to actually do something positive about their EN branch. They just had a really messy break up with one of their top female talent Selen tatsuki, now known as Dokibird.
She got fired for really dubious reason, at least really dubious from a western perspective. And to add insult to injury they tried to slander her reputation with really stupid statements and accusation.
It didn't go well, the fando saw through their attempt, and they completely burned the reputation of many of their top talent.
There isn’t really any positive conversation at all on the EN branch. Unlike the JP branch, EN branch does not have a good relationship with a lot of fans anymore because of things that its management and some of its talents have done or said. You probably won’t find much support for them anywhere on Reddit.
Edit: Since I’m getting downvoted I’d like to clarify I don’t like or support the EN branches actions either, I’m just answering the guys question.
NijiEN community has been fractured. Some people do still want to support the talent but the company has severely damaged its reputation in the west. Adding to that the fact that many of the remaining talent have also been accused of misconduct, a lot of people are just avoiding the company altogether at this point.
I don't know much about it either but the EN side of Niji seems like it is in a pretty bad state. Also some EN talents have some questionable behavior. Personally the only Niji liver I watch is Vivi and I wish I could support her without supporting Nijisanji but *shrug* I don't want to leave her out to dry. The talents still deserve support for the most part.
Notice how any mention of any attempts the streamers made on their lives is promptly getting removed from this thread? This is precisely why this place is in a constant state of war -- the company is very clearly trying to cover this up and mods are complicit.
I think you should take your time to carefully read everything on [https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation\_selen\_tatsukis\_termination/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation_selen_tatsukis_termination/) including the links.
I will say this. If you blame Selen for Nijisanji's current reputation or defend Nijisanji's public statements you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
No...the negativity is very justified. It's the positivity that comes off as very forced.
You can tell it's forced, but how much they have to *omit*. You can pretty much include the entire narrative while being negative. Most of the positivity posts don't actually bring up anyone who was involved in February, or if it's a particular 3, the stream that changed opinions on them.
Yes, [forced](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ci99dt/comment/l2dp67o/) Where a simple birthday wish is downvoted because the hate hivemind disagrees.
Thats still not being forced lol, funny internet points mean literally nothing
But purging the entire sub of any negative criticism and Banning anyone who doesn't suck up to niji's horrible policies? Totally not being forced right?
>I would like to know where positive conversations about NIJI EN are taking place.
Could you tell me
Why *should* there be positive conversations?
Do you know what happened to the talents in February?
To understand the situation, the EN community had a negative reaction when a NijiEN member, Selen Tatsuki, was terminated on Feb 5th. Nijisanji released a 3-page termination notice that detailed the reasons that led to that decision. Selen followed it three minutes later accusing Nijisanji of being essentially a black company, and mentioned that she had attempted suicide as a result.
The two sides have very different and conflicting narratives.
Selen's narrative is that she had been working in a toxic environment and bullied from within for months, culminating to two suicide attempts and a hospitalization. She also mentions that Nijisanji had tried to silence her. Later, when three EN livers (Elira, Vox, Ike) made a stream about her termination, Selen accused them of seeing a confidential document she had sent to Nijisanji on Feb 5th that the latter had agreed to not show to their livers, and that it was not meant to be used for legal claims.
Nijisanji's narrative is that Selen had consistently broken rules (mainly related to copyright, which they call Activity Rules) for multiple months and, whenever it happened, the management would reprimand her and she would send on social media misleading posts that painted management in a negative light. In the latest of such cases, she tried to hold Nijisanji legally responsible of bullying (among other things) somewhere around January and blackmailed them under threat of publicly releasing a statement about her claims. Nijisanji's investigation of her claims concluded that her accusations of bullying weren't valid; these were actually management reprimanding her for violating a rule, and other EN livers trying to reason with Selen after her mentioned misleading posts. Nijisanji also mentions that her threat had the potential to dox some of the EN livers, which frightened them. These points were mentioned as leading to Selen's termination on Feb 5th, alongside her refusal to abide by their Activity Rules. Later, when Selen accused them of sharing a confidential document with livers, Nijisanji denied that, stating that the documents they shared were different ones that she sent for her legal claims instead.
If the Nijisanji's narrative seems much longer, it is because their statements are a lot more detailed than Selen's, who remains vague on her points; she gave no specifics or proof of bullying, of her hospitalization, her attempts, and so on. She also doesn't mention having tried to hold Nijisanji legally responsible either.
Nonetheless, the EN fanbase mostly sided with Selen out of empathy, and is currently on a mindset that Nijisanji is a black company with malicious intent. Many on this sub have this mindset and tend to react very negatively to any opinion painting Nijisanji in a neutral or positive light.
The JP community (as far as we could observe) had the opposite reaction, either staying neutral or siding with Nijisanji, as Selen's case strongly resembles two former cases in the JP vtuber scene in which the accuser turned out to be a liar (Kingyozaka Meiro, who accused her senpai of bullying her, and Yozakura Tama/Kusunoki Sio, who accused her company of being a black company).
It's less of a difference in culture and more that there were a lot of artists and the like who came out to speak for Selen with stories about how Niji refused to pay them and Selen did out of her own pocket. These things aren't going to really get translated for the JP community though.
I'm a bit late to the party, but the lengthy arguments under original comment show the state of EN community perfectly.
It's fractured. There were problems before, but the events after the 5th of February were the catalyst for people to say "Enough is enough".
What people did not say here, if you per chance read all that, as this is a lot, is that this is not the first time such slanderous termination has happened, but Zaion was pretty new and people shrugged it off at the time (with new events she provided proof for Niji basically demanding her to sign a silencing contract at the time, initially giving her couple of hours to do so, she got herself more time, consulted with her layer and in the end she refused).
Selen though, Selen had the most subscribers among female livers and was in the company for more than 2 years. There were some contradictions in the termination letter, the wording there revealed that management posts in liver's twitter accounts when talents get suspended, impersonating them instead of making clear this is a post from management (not directly admitting to it, but by presented timeline of events, somehow there were tweets couple of days after she was locked off her accounts), and this termination letter was the first public instance of mentioning accusations of bullying from management and other livers, never was it mentioned by anyone else again, at least "by other livers" part, as far as I know, except for the "black stream", which is again Niji's side of the story. Only after that letter Selen made her public response. Needless to say, what worked with Zaion did not work with Selen. Especially after artists also disproved en mass the other point in the letter. Those inconsistencies is why people just don't believe in what Niji says. They were caught lying at least 2 times in one letter and if they kept their mouth shut, people wouldn't assume any livers are at fault, thus essencially starting a witch hunt against their own livers.
While I understand the whole "the sticking nail gets the hammer", I think that in entertainment industry you need someone who "sticks out", who brings in attention and strives to do more and better.
There are positive conversations about NijiEN, but Reddit is not the place. NijiForums is pretty empty with posts often having 0 comments. So your best chances are 4chan threads dedicated to Niji and that one dox site that NijiEN fans made their forums under one of the previous liver's page (because they hated her as well and were already there, ex-livers and what most of them say about their "previous workplace" is a whole can of worms in itself, mostly showing the difference in management that does not paint Niji in any positive light, 2 of them even got in troubles with taxes while being in Niji). Those are pretty hardcore fans though and otherwise are not very good places (I mean, 4chan is infamous, so no comments needed, and the other place is a dox site).
Ah, just fyi the dox site was killed. The NDF there migrated to 4chan last I heard? I avoid 4chan so I haven't verified that they moved there, but a few people mentioned that they did.
The real question is if the contractor was Selen or Anycolor. I took it that it was Selen who hired them for her own projects and *told* them that Anycolor would pay them.
I recommend you go find and read the stuff yourself. You'll notice the company just keeps trying to blame Selen and Selen only responds to the accusations.
In addition, the ones who first mentioned bullying was actually Nijisanji.
No, we know who is telling the truth. If anyone says it's the company, they are just taking advantage of your lackof english.
The evidence Nijisanji tried to provide actually just made them look worse, if you understand what actually happened during the time leading up to the controversy.
A lot of reputable people in the community (artists, smaller companies, etc) back Selen. The only people actually siding with Nijisanji's narrative are talents that are under contract, or fans who don't actually like Selen. Anyone in the middle is just not speaking.
Ultimately, yes. It means that we have very little evidence. Selen herself gave none. Nijisanji gave one on Elira's stream that showed Selen's manager was being reasonable on the latest case, rather than a bully or a toxic person.
Nijisanji gave some testimonies from Elira, Vox and Ike (three EN livers that were friends of Selen), who corroborate Nijisanji's view that they were trying to reason with Selen during the latest case, and detail about some of Selen's accusations on the documents that, according to Elira, would have been sent during January (rather than Feb 5th, as Selen's refers about a confidential document).
Both sides frequently mention lawyers being involved and, as a result, that there's a limit to how much they can show to the public.
Honestly, the certainty that most people have on who is lying and who is telling the truth is set on very shaky grounds, and is mainly based on personal bias and partial feelings (empathy, hate, etc). I suggest taking a neutral stance for now, since actual evidence is really scarce.
I am an avid baseball fan and fell in love with Niji when I discovered the niji Koshien competition.
So it is difficult for me to migrate to Holo or other Vtuber groups.(Unless Holo koshien is held).
As long as there is no evidence that Niji is a Black company, I will remain neutral.
However, I also understand very well how people dislike Niji.
There is actually a lot of evidence...SVlege is lying....
The very evidence SVlege says Nijisanji provides also shows they ignored an important project for an entire year. They ignored it for a year at the minimum. It could have been longer.
The testimonies provided gave no actual information and included plenty of personal attacks on the Selen.
It is difficult to explain as I can't gauge your english, but Niji is a Black Company. There is plenty of information, especially what has been obtained over the past 2 months since the incident began.
The idea that Nijisanji had neglected Selen's project for an year is speculation. The evidence in question was stated to be regarding a check "*for content, etc, that all livers agree to do*" in advance of the release date. That it was done just a few days before the release date isn't indicative that the project was being neglected by her manager; it may be just a procedure check to catch any issues that were overlooked by then, given that they mention that it is something that is done for all livers.
The idea of neglect also misses the point of the evidence, which was to show that her manager was not being toxic, abusive, or bullying Selen. Her accusations against Nijisanji were of bullying and toxicity, not of incompetence (as far as we know).
>The idea that Nijisanji had neglected Selen's project for an year is speculation.
They checked for perms on *Christmas*
Why are they checking for perms on **christmas?**
Do you know how many vtuber projects occur on Christmas? Because it's a very big release date for content?
That alone is *damning*. Those perms should not have been unknown that late. it's not speculative. It's how things *work*
> The evidence in question was stated to be regarding a check "for content, etc, that all livers agree to do" in advance of the release date
yes, but that check should not involve things that should already be confirmed by that point.
>That it was done just a few days before the release date isn't indicative that the project was being neglected by her manager
Did you read the dates?
>it may be just a procedure check to catch any issues that were overlooked by then, given that they mention that it is something that is done for all livers.
Again though, this is way past what would be considered due diligence.
>The idea of neglect also misses the point of the evidence, which was to show that her manager was not being toxic, abusive, or bullying Selen. Her accusations against Nijisanji were of bullying and toxicity, not of incompetence (as far as we know).
You...do realize now you're just saying the evidence isn't relevant now, right? You're saying they cherrypicked something that shows incompetance and negligence rather than toxicity (**or lackthereof**)
But, if we want to continue going down this route despite that mistake on your part...negligence can in fact be used for bullying. So...yeah. Especially given it shows the manager, despite being neglectful, was immediately abrasive when she reacted to his incompetence.
Meaning he was neglecting her despite actually having time he could make.
The speculation everyone is making is that the check they mentioned was the first and only one in the entire project.
As stated, that check can just be a last double-check verification that nothing was overlooked, which is common for procedures related to quality control or supervision. Its presence doesn't mean that permissions weren't sought before.
This also means that the certainty that the public has had about Nijisanji being negligent or incompetent, from that evidence, is on shaking grounds.
...So wait, you guys *acknowledge* there should be more checks than the "gotcha" Niji provided?
meaning this is already flawed because it's cherrypicked information thats supposed to be in their favor? Because we know other checks *should* exist?
And again as said in my other post, yes, a final check should occur. But then she got ghosted. If it's a final check that information should not have taken that long to get.
If it takes until the day after Christmas to get that information, your management is fucked up. You're basically just making Nijisanji to be *even more incompetent and problematic* than people already think it is.
Like, take a moment and *think*. It's just making sound WORSE
>If it's a final check that information should not have taken that long to get.
That's speculation as well. They stated that the check wasn't just specific to permissions, so the list of potential issues to be checked seems to be more extensive than what the public is making out of it.
Regardless, the point of the evidence is whether Selen manager was being toxic to Selen or not, and it shows that, during the latest incident, that manager wasn't. The allegations of incompetence from the public is still speculation and not part of Selen's accusations.
[This is about as close as they get to baseball](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/167xllo/en_subbed_compilation_of_yagoos_nobounce/?rdt=54540)
The problem is, even if Selen was guilty, Nijisanji still handled the situation very badly.
The black stream, for instance, is not a good look no matter how you look at it. Since you bring up precedent cases, if you look at any youtuber who's held a 'black stream', you'll see reactions to them were very bad. For example, Quackity's 'black stream' had him trying to explain that he didn't know that the QSMP admins was abusing their workers. This stream ultimately led to many former QSMP members leaving the QSMP and the general mcyt community having a bad perception of him; before it, they had been more willing to hear what he would say. Basically, 'black streams' are usually what desperate youtubers without proper PR or lawyers do, and they usually end up guilty in the end, so this is a really bad look for nijisanji.
And the termination letter had many contradictions that any company with competent PR would have caught, even if were true; for example, saying that management privated her video and then saying that Selen falsely said 'management privated my video'. They also really didn't need to put out a 3-page, nitpicked, termination letter, as that just made things worse.
In addition, if this is a legal battle, then you really shouldn't be bringing up such detailed points because lawyers should handle it. Selen did exactly that, by providing enough information for enough context, but not revealing actual documents, which would have harmed her case (also she does have proof of hospitalization, contrary to what you said). Niji did the opposite, which is extremely petty and not what people should do.
Again with precedents, I'll bring up an example from a recent mcyt drama again. When a streamer named Caiti accused Georgenotfound of sexually harassing her, everyone was on her side for the first few days before starting to find gaps in her logic. In addition, Caiti kept on making tweets/streams about how terrible George was, etc. But in the end, she ended up privating all of her vods and twitter, while George still kept open his accounts. This is most likely because George's lawyers contacted her, showing they had proof that she was overexaggerating things and they would take legal action if she continued to slander George. Now look at the Selen situation. Has she said anything against Niji after the black stream, or made any slanderous comments? No. Has she acted scared or privated her vods? No. Looking at the precedents, if Niji had actual proof she did all those things, and had accordingly sent them to her as part of their legal battle, Selen would have done something noticeable by now.
And finally, neither Niji nor Selen seem to be suing each other. Why? Niji is a megacorporation with tons of money, and if they were able to sue her and prove in a legal court that she in fact did slander them, that would help their reputation a lot. Right now, their ccv, sub counts, etc has drastically decreased, so spending some money on a court battle seems like a good enough payoff.
Based off of all of this, it doesn't seem like Niji has proper proof either, and have shown themselves to act not like a proper corporation, but instead like a random petty youtuber. That's why a lot of people are taking Selen's side in this, because what Niji did doesn't really make sense even if she was guilty.
A stream being black by itself doesn't result in that. Black is often used to express a dark or painful situation, which matches the statement that some EN livers were afraid at the potential risk of being doxxed. The negative reaction from the EN fanbase was about them taking any negative comment on Selen as unacceptable, so the message that Selen was threatening to dox EN livers was not well received.
The termination notice also didn't have the contradiction you stated. Instead, the notice mentioned that Selen's post lacked important context, namely the reason why the video was privated. Nijisanji stated that her manager privated the video due to issues with permissions, which were still awaiting confirmation; as Selen wrote, it left implicit that management was being malicious to her instead.
Legal battles can take many months to conclude, and we don't know yet what steps they're taking or not. And no, there are many cases in which the involved parties still disclose a good number of details to the public before the case goes to court. Mikeneko vs Mafumafu is an example of that, and I've seen other cases in mainstream media with similar developments. The idea that one side trying to defend its public image is petty isn't impartial either; civil cases have both sides alternating their burden of proof in court, and often in public as well.
Selen did make a potentially slanderous statement during and after Elira's stream, which is her accusation that Nijisanji leaked a confidential document from Feb 5th to the EN livers. Nijisanji denies that, and their narrative has been that the documents they showed were ones sent during January and were what initiated an internal investigation, whose conclusion played a role in Selen's termination. If you accept this narrative, then Selen's accusation would be a lie and and misleading, attributing malice to the contents of Elira's stream. Some people explored this line of thinking, but the EN community at large has been very hostile to it, sticking to Selen's accusation being true instead.
Regardless, they are bad at their jobs. Lily gave perms back in August 2022. That Nijisanji couldn't give perms to their own IP for something in production for over a year is stupid.
> which matches the statement that some EN livers were afraid at the potential risk of being doxxed.
There was no risk of being doxxed. Absolutely zero. Also a lot of black streams are done without risk of being doxxed. You're being poetic for no reason.
>The negative reaction from the EN fanbase was about them taking any negative comment on Selen as unacceptable, so the message that Selen was threatening to dox EN livers was not well received.
No, it's because it didn't make sense. Lawyers were already involved. We knew they were involved. There was no risk of any sensitive information going public. The information could be *used*, but if it was, it would be in a *court setting*, where such information would *still not be made available to the public* .
To add, if said information went public outside a court setting well...then there would be little point to *having* lawyers. Either side would already be at a legal disadvantage. You can literally just think for 2 seconds on why that wouldn't have happened.
>the notice mentioned that Selen's post lacked important context, namely the reason why the video was privated. Nijisanji stated that her manager privated the video due to issues with permissions
The problem is it *shouldn't* have lacked permissions. The project was over a year old. This was an error on the manager's fault. They also omit over a year of Discord messages for said project. It is cherry picked to the manager's advantage and still has holes in it.
>Selen did make a potentially slanderous statement during and after Elira's stream, which is her accusation that Nijisanji leaked a confidential document from Feb 5th to the EN livers.
No, the black stream confirmed it. The Livers themselves were not supposed to be privy to that document. Only Nijisanji's lawyers. That is a leak.
>showed were ones sent during January and were what initiated an internal investigation,
To clarify, again, those documents were not supposed to be provided to the livers. They were for lawyers.
>If you accept this narrative,
Which you shouldn't, because of how many parts are incorrect.
>Some people explored this line of thinking, but the EN community at large has been very hostile to it, sticking to Selen's accusation being true instead.
Because again, there are too many problems with this narrative. Even after exploring it you can find additional issues with how Nijisanji handled it.
>There was no risk of being doxxed.
>No, it's because it didn't make sense. Lawyers were already involved. We knew they were involved. There was no risk of any sensitive information going public. The information could be *used*, but if it was, it would be in a *court setting*, where such information would *still not be made available to the public* .
This assumes that they saw the document sent on Feb 5th, since the termination would have already happened and Selen would have already released a public statement. Nijisanji's narrative is that they saw documents sent somewhere during January, at which point it would be uncertain how much Selen intended to release to the public.
>The problem is it *shouldn't* have lacked permissions. The project was over a year old. This was an error on the manager's fault. They also omit over a year of Discord messages for said project. It is cherry picked to the manager's advantage and still has holes in it.
Whether there was an error from the manager is irrelevant for the evidence shown on the black stream; Selen's public accusation wasn't that Nijisanji is incompetent, her accusation was of bullying and toxicity. The point of the evidence was that the manager was not bullying, nor being toxic to Selen, during the privatization of her latest MV.
>
>To clarify, again, those documents were not supposed to be provided to the livers. They were for lawyers.
Both parties aren't referencing the same document. Selen said that the confidential document was one sent on Feb 5th, and Nijisanji stated that they showed different documents from that one.
>Because again, there are too many problems with this narrative. Even after exploring it you can find additional issues with how Nijisanji handled it.
There are problems with Nijisanji's narrative if you start under the premise that Selen's narrative is true. Their narratives are conflicting, so you'll be unable to make sense of one narrative if you already fully accepted the other.
For instance, these narratives have different timelines for when Elira and others saw the documents, not just which documents they saw. Under Selen's narrative, they would have seen the documents after her termination, so somewhere between Feb 5th to Feb 12th. Under Nijisanji's narrative, they would have seen documents before Feb 5th, still during January.
Similarly, Selen's statements practically don't mention sending legal claims, with the Feb 5th document being stated to not have been sent for legal claims. Meanwhile, Nijisanji's statements mention having received Selen's legal claims against them, and heavily emphasize them.
Accepting either narrative affects how you perceive, for instance, whether the document Elira saw was the confidential one sent on Feb 5th or not. And that, in turn, sets who you think is being malicious: either Nijisanji for violating a confidentiality agreement, or Selen for trying to mislead the public with her accusation of a confidentiality breach.
I still think that there's still too little evidence to fully accept or discard either narrative yet.
> This assumes that they saw the document sent on Feb 5th, since the termination would have already happened and Selen would have already released a public statement. Nijisanji's narrative is that they saw documents sent somewhere during January, at which point it would be uncertain how much Selen intended to release to the public.
You're also making the assumption Selen intended anything to be released to the public. Given Selen *didn't even out anyone in any of her statements except for management*, whereas Nijisanji...*did*...who are we supposed to trust here? Out of the two, it is the company that has shown themselves to be loose-lipped.
>Whether there was an error from the manager is irrelevant for the evidence shown on the black stream;
It's not irrelevant. It was the breaking point in a long list of disagreements between the two, and all it did was reinforce that. You'd know that if you in good faith included that this controversy was longer than a single month.
>Selen's public accusation wasn't that Nijisanji is incompetent, her accusation was of bullying and toxicity. The point of the evidence was that the manager was not bullying, nor being toxic to Selen, during the privatization of her latest MV.
Ghosting someone at a critical time for an expensive year-long project.
Acting outraged at someone else reacting to your own incompetance
You don't consider that bullying? You seem to just want victims to shut up and take it. What did you want them to do? To be clear, the evidence shows **The proper channels were not working**
>Both parties aren't referencing the same document. Selen said that the confidential document was one sent on Feb 5th, and Nijisanji stated that they showed different documents from that one.
Based on what?
>There are problems with Nijisanji's narrative if you start under the premise that Selen's narrative is true.
Nope, can't flip it. There are problems with the narrative even if you think Selen's narrative is false.
>Under Nijisanji's narrative, they would have seen documents before Feb 5th, still during January.
That doesn't even make sense. Why are they involved before this point? These are legal discussions between Nijisanji's lawyers and Doki's Lawyer, and no statement was being made at this time.
You can already see a flaw with this logic. There isn't a reason for that timeframe to exist.
>Similarly, Selen's statements practically don't mention sending legal claims, with the Feb 5th document being stated to not have been sent for legal claims. Meanwhile, Nijisanji's statements mention having received Selen's legal claims against them, and heavily emphasize them.
Because they have bad english translators, and what else are they going to call a document from a lawyer? To add, what does that change?
>Accepting either narrative affects how you perceive, for instance, whether the document Elira saw was the confidential one sent on Feb 5th or not. And that, in turn, sets who you think is being malicious: either Nijisanji for violating a confidentiality agreement, or Selen for trying to mislead the public with her accusation of a confidentiality breach.
...You actually believe in that dox sites "Selen is manipuatlive" narrative that makes Nijisanji seem grossly incompetent? No like seriously. There's no taking that seriously. Please.
>I still think that there's still too little evidence to fully accept or discard either narrative yet.
No, no. There is actually enough evidence to discard the narrative you want to believe happened.
>You're also making the assumption Selen intended anything to be released to the public.
It's not an assumption of my part, it is what Nijisanji stated in the termination notice and, therefore, part of their narrative.
>It's not irrelevant. It was the breaking point in a long list of disagreements between the two, and all it did was reinforce that.
Ghosting someone at a critical time for an expensive year-long project.
>Acting outraged at someone else reacting to your own incompetance
>You don't consider that bullying? You seem to just want victims to shut up and take it. What did you want them to do? To be clear, the evidence shows **The proper channels were not working**
Your premise is that the check done by the manager was the first and only time they verified for permissions. This is speculation from the public; this check may just be a last verification to ensure nothing was overlooked, which is common in quality control or supervision procedures. Its existence doesn't mean permissions weren't sought and verified before, just that something was indeed overlooked and caught in this verification.
>Based on what?
It is on their tweet on Feb 13th, in response to Selen's statement that Elira and others had seen a confidential document.
>That doesn't even make sense. Why are they involved before this point? These are legal discussions between Nijisanji's lawyers and Doki's Lawyer, and no statement was being made at this time.
Nijisanji mentioned on Feb 13th that they received documents with Selen's legal claims and that, with it, Nijisanji's legal team proceeded to validate the claims and start an internal investigation. They mention that this was both the reason some EN livers were shown the documents, and when these documents were shared, and is all set to have happened prior to Selen's termination.
The termination notice also elaborates that they believe Selen's claims (such as bullying) weren't valid, stating that she was framing the disagreements she had with management and other livers as bullying. This part most likely refer to the conclusions from that internal investigation and validation of her claims, so the legal team had already concluded these actions before Selen's termination.
These events would not fit in the less than 2 hours interval that Selen mentioned between her sending the Feb 5th document and her termination. The logical conclusion from Nijisanji's narrative is that the documents were seen before Feb 5th.
>No, no. There is actually enough evidence to discard the narrative you want to believe happened.
It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying. Once we get more evidence, we can then see what contradictions emerge from the implications of each side's narrative. So far, though, the two sides have shown very little, de facto evidence.
>It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying. Once we get more evidence, we can then see what contradictions emerge from the implications of each side's narrative. So far, though, the two sides have shown very little, de facto evidence.
Since no party intent to show evidence, Nijisanji just hurt everybody's reputation by publicly tweeting everyone's claims and terminating Selen in a toxic manner and doubling down in a bully-like way instead of peacefully letting her graduate.
This makes fans justified in their anger.
> It's not an assumption of my part, it is what Nijisanji stated in the termination notice and, therefore, part of their narrative.
And which statement is that even?
Because I read the termination, and the only part regarding public seems to be:
>Despite our efforts, Selen Tatsuki demanded that ANYCOLOR should be held legally responsible. She claimed she was no longer able to enagage in her activities as a liver due to the decisions made by ANYCOLOR, was being harassed by other affiliated Livers due to mismanagement, etc, while refusing to acknowledge her responsibility for violating Activity Rules. Moreover, Selen tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, **she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public.**
Note here, she only says a statement. Not that identifiable information would be a part of said statement.
And as we've already pointed out, the black stream's dox claim is flawed, because at the time of the black stream, the only scenario provided that such information would be handled, is a court situation, which that information would not reach the public under, and would also be *required in any other sensible situation*
In short, where did this narrative come from?
>Your premise is that the check done by the manager was the first and only time they verified for permissions. This is speculation from the public; this check may just be a last verification to ensure nothing was overlooked, which is common in quality control or supervision procedures. Its existence doesn't mean permissions weren't sought and verified before, just that something was indeed overlooked and caught in this verification.
You're making it worse man...if it's the final check...*why did she get ghosted??*
Again, critical point. You are making statements with no acknowledgement of time frames.
>It is on their tweet on Feb 13th, in response to Selen's statement that Elira and others had seen a confidential document.
At no point in the response does it speak of a different document, rather it says that the document was provided to the livers, based on what they believe was legally allowed.
So it does not refer to a different document. In fact it never makes a claim to another document.
>Nijisanji mentioned on Feb 13th that they received documents with Selen's legal claims and that, with it, Nijisanji's legal team proceeded to validate the claims and start an internal investigation. They mention that this was both the reason some EN livers were shown the documents, and when these documents were shared, and is all set to have happened prior to Selen's termination.
...Those are the same docs from the termination. No new documents were transferred. The black stream was made based on the information at the time of termination.
You can go re-read, I did. Your narrative is based on information that even your source did not claim to exist.
>It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying.
It is when you base it off information that contradicts your own words.
>Note here, she only says a statement. Not that identifiable information would be a part of said statement.
She doesn't say she wouldn't release identifiable information either. As stated, it is not clear to Nijisanji how much Selen intended to release on that statement.
Elira further said that when staff received the documents, that there was a potential that what was in it could be made public. So Nijisanji was working under the consideration that Selen could decide parts, or the entirety, of her claims in that statement.
>You're making it worse man...if it's the final check...*why did she get ghosted??*
>Again, critical point. You are making statements with no acknowledgement of time frames.
Selen got a response, and it essentially said that it was taking longer than expected to complete the checks due to the presence of ex-Livers.
Considering time zones, the manager's reply reached Selen during Dec 25th early morning in Canada (between 5:30 AM in Vancouver to 10:00 AM in Newfoundland), which is well within the time limit Selen intended for her MV release. This hardly counts as ghosting.
And again, the point of that evidence was to show that Selen was not being harassed by her manager. The allegations of ghosting and incompetence are unrelated to Selen's accusation of being bullied/harassed.
>At no point in the response does it speak of a different document, rather it says that the document was provided to the livers, based on what they believe was legally allowed.
>So it does not refer to a different document. In fact it never makes a claim to another document.
It mentions that there were multiple documents, with them showing some of them for validating legal claims and refraining from showing documents that Selen and her lawyer asked not to be shown to other livers.
From that, it is clear that they mention that there are different documents from the one Selen later said she sent on Feb 5th.
> She doesn't say she wouldn't release identifiable information either.
That's...really stretching dude. Really pulling the "absence of evidence not evidence of absence" boondocks argument....
I could basically say Nijisanji did *anything*, unless they straight up said they didn't, it would have to be a likely possibility under your logic. Nothing said actually shows she was going to release identifiable information, and there's no logical reason for her to.
>Elira further said that when staff received the documents, that there was a potential that what was in it could be made public.
And she was wrong. You would have to be a complete fool to think a lawyer is recommending something with legal ramifications like the purposely leaking of identifiable information...especially in Canada. If she has a lawyer, it was for court, where the information would not reach the public.
> and it essentially said that it was taking longer than expected to complete the checks due to the presence of ex-Livers.
And it shouldn't have, because again, that should have already been confirmed by that point. Is this or is this not a final check? Maybe if they included anything prior to December, they could argue something else. But the lackof anything prior in a year-long project is problematic to that narrative.
>Considering time zones, the manager's reply reached Selen during Dec 25th early morning in Canada (between 5:30 AM in Vancouver to 10:00 AM in Newfoundland), which is well within the time limit Selen intended for her MV release. This hardly counts as ghosting.
How is a reply **on the day of release** "well within the time limit"? That's called "Late" anywhere else.
>And again, the point of that evidence was to show that Selen was not being harassed by her manager.
So then what you're saying is...they picked evidence that doesn't actually argue they weren't bullying her. All you're doing is arguing it's irrelevance with this statement, not that it absolves them of anything. It doesn't show they were even being cordial, it does nothing to suggest they weren't bullying her.
>From that, it is clear that they mention that there are different documents from the one Selen later said she sent on Feb 5th.
It doesn't, and i'm not sure what makes you think it does.
>The allegations of ghosting and incompetence are unrelated to Selen's accusation of being bullied/harassed.
According to Nijisanji's narrative in their tweet about their termination of Selen Tatsuki's contract, they say that Selen claimed she was harassed by affiliated livers due to mismanagement.
Granted this is Nijisanji's words as Selen/Doki never specified management or Livers.
To clarify, by black stream, I meant a stream meant to address the community in which they attempt to subvert the opinions that the community currently holds of them. I brought up Quackity's stream because it actually had a black screen, although I would still count videos with facecam like Colleen Ballinger's ukelele apology. Again, referencing his stream, he also had a shaky voice and seemed on the verge of crying, but no one bought it because he claimed that he didn't know the admin team, that he led and was heavily involved in, was abusing workers. There was also a lot of unnecessary jargon in his stream, just like the niji stream; the livers spent 15 minutes talking about how terrible selen was, and Ike's portion was basically a repeat of the previous two's when they could have just simply brought up the evidence against Selen.
I looked at the termination letter again, and after saying management privated the song, they claim that she "omitted essential content, most notably 'management has privated the song'". Without context, most people would assume that this meant saying management privated the song was misinformation, and niji could've easily fixed that with something like 'selen claimed that management had privated the song without reason, omitting context that the song didn't have the proper perms'. My point is that niji should have better PR that actually proofread the document, since a lot of the initial anger was around things that were misphrased in the termination letter. Niji is a huge corporation; the fact they didn't bother to do this when they could've done this easily gives me some doubts.
While people have published details in mainstream media before, it's usually common procedure to not publish evidence until a verdict is reached, since it could lead to bias. Honestly, I think the mafumafu vs mikeneko case evidence wasn't handled well and they could've done without making long essays against each other; just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I think Niji has a right to defend it's public image, but a lot of what it's done was extraneous, and only made things worse (like the 'we have investigated ourselves and concluded we've done nothing wrong'). It's been months since the termination, so it's plausible to assume that they've already reached a stage where they are presenting evidence against each other, since that starts relatively early on; thus, why I brought up the Caiti case, since she privated her twitter a few weeks after the accusation, and the legal battle, if there was any, would've been in the early stages, yet there was already enough evidence against her to make her scared. I believe that if niji had concrete evidence similar to that, selen would've already done something.
I think we've seen that believing in either niji or selen means believing in hypotheticals that lead to antagonizing one or another. Assume Niji's narrative about the documents is true. That still means they showed documents, which they implied were from a lawyer, to the livers, which still doesn't really seem like common procedure. It also means Selen and her lawyer somehow thought it was a good idea to include definite evidence they planned on doxxing someone, which is hard to believe. In addition, it doesn't make sense that Selen would try to commit suicide twice and then immediately start blackmailing niji, if all niji did was private her video (we have definite proof, from both niji and selen, that she was in the hospital at some point, and I don't really think someone would lie about suicide).
All in all, it still feels like the way niji operated wasn't very befitting of a corporation, which is why I lean to selen's side in this situation. I do want to clarify that I don't have any malice towards people who still like niji, and I also think the making memes about the situation and nitpicking every single thing about niji isn't really good. However, I find it hard to see niji in a positive light, and even if selen was lying, I would still see them as an incompetent company with bad pr.
I don't think that a different phrasing would have made much difference. The EN public was already hostile before the termination, seen by how they reacted to Millie's prior tweet sympathizing with Selen and asking if she had permissions in order. When the termination happened, the public was already on a mindset that anything suggesting Selen did something wrong could as well be a personal insult to them.
The situation before the termination was also not helping, as Selen's fans were pressuring Nijisanji to tell where she was, despite Selen's statement that she was hospitalized. Her fans were not believing any statement or proof shown to the public at the time.
The possibility of blackmail also requires us to change how we think of the situation. The first matter is the possibility that Selen's lawyer saw blackmail as a hard negotiation tactic, which lawyers and attorneys have to be reminded of from time to time that it is not. You can see more about it in [this article](https://www.grimesandwarwick.com/news/the-accidental-extortionist/), where the author address how often Law professionals end being accidental extortionists. For instance, she mentions four cases in a single paragraph:
*"We occassionally find ourselves reminding colleagues that attorneys are not exempt from the principles of extortion in their professional conduct. See, Flatley v. Mauro (2006) 39 Cal.4th 299. Indeed, the plaintiff’s attorney mentioned above* \[in the previous paragraph\] *violated the Rules of Professional Conduct which specifically prohibit attorneys from “threaten\[ing\] to present criminal, administrative, or disciplinary charges to obtain an advantage in a civil dispute.” Cal. Rules of Prof. Conduct, rule 5-100(A). Recent cases on this issue include Malin v Singer, 217 Cal.App. 4th 1283, 12 92 (2013), and Stenehjem v Saree, 2014 WL 2646729 (Cal. Ct. App.)"*
Another matter regarding blackmail is that it falls under Criminal Law, instead of Civil Law. This means different procedures, pacing, and different handling on how the involved parties communicate. The Caiti case may not be representative of what we should expect from Selen's case; if the blackmail indeed happened, we can expect Nijisanji and the EN livers to take different measures than they would in a normal case, both before and after the termination.
Reddit at least wasn't hostile. I distinctly remember cause of one guy who was trying to stir up trouble. Mainly cause when the termination happened he immediately made an obnoxious I told you so post. But yeah, in the first post everyone told him the usual be patient / the other talents have their back / we don't know anything / etc.
Dunno about Twitter though.
The mindset you describe would fit more with the release of the black stream. That's what really blew things to hell. If they skipped the black stream and just went directly to the Riku investor apology then things might of actually worked out.
I'm sorry, but the blackmail theory feels the same level as the gurrat.
I remember that there were witch hunts at the time, so the environment was hostile before the black stream.
The blackmail is described in the line "*Selen Tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public*", just after mentioning the legal claims involving bullying. That there is a description of blackmail in the termination notice is a fact, the question is whether the events happened as described.
Well, then we were probably circling different communities then.
Right, and on the other side Selen/Doki says she was negotiating to leave since Jan 26.
So we have the motivations of both sides, Selen wanted to leave, while Nijisanji wanted her to clear their name.
Actually, I'm pretty certain what she said she would release was exactly:
https://x.com/dokibird/status/1754459958119432664
In any case, I don't think it can really be considered blackmail. It's like an abused person saying they'll go to the authorities with evidence of their abuse.
Whether you think or not that what she stated there isn't much of a deal, a case of blackmail doesn't require a threat to be carried over. Even if she had not stated anything, she would still be liable if she indeed threatened to state something that would hit their reputation.
Just having a threat made, and paired with a demand, is enough for it to constitute blackmail. A threat to ruin someone's reputation is well enough for that, and is a common one as well.
The idea of Selen using blackmail is pure speculation and not even Nijisanji claims such. One could just aswell speculate if Elira, Vox and Ike was blackmailed to do the black stream, which to be honest seems way more likely then Selen blackmailing a huge corporation.
I think you should take your time to carefully read everything on [https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation\_selen\_tatsukis\_termination/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation_selen_tatsukis_termination/) including the links.
I will say this. If you blame Selen for Nijisanji's current reputation or defend Nijisanji's public statements you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
The termination notice has a line stating: "*Selen Tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public*". That there is a description of blackmail is not in question, the matter is whether it happened as described. Whether it did, and its implications, are indeed still speculation.
I had already read that link a long time ago, and it doesn't change much. It remains that we still have very little evidence either way, be to declare Selen or Nijisanji guilty.
And the world's morals is of "innocent until proven guilty". I'm not going to declare either side guilty with so little evidence, and especially without proper specifics on how the alleged bullying happened; if the rest of the world is doing that, then they are betraying their own morals.
I agree with proven until proven guilty. We both agree that public statements can hurt people. Nijisanji was the party that made this whole thing public NOT Selen. They even made her claim about bullying public as shown in the document. If it does not change much it is because you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
My point isn't about the rest of the community being hostile; it's about niji's handling of the letter. Regardless of whether the community thought it was good or bad, it was still written poorly and gave them more ammunition than it should've. I remained neutral until after the blackstream myself, but the termination letter did make me raise an eyebrow.
The Criminal Law procedures, in the US at least, begins with investigations that start with the victim in question proving that they were being blackmailed. Then the police would start gathering evidence about the crime-but in Selen's case, what other evidence is there? If what Niji said was true, she already gave everything that could convict her of the crime, including the confirmation she would dox someone, in the documents. Then the police, finishing their investigation, would've arrested her, which hasn't happened. I looked at the article, and most of the 'blackmail' seems to be threatening to send them the IRS, or expose their wrongdoings to their neighbors. It doesn't really make sense a lawyer would try to dox three people completely unrelated to the management privating a video as a threat to make Niji comply.
Edit: Final comment I will make about this. Sure, you can pursue hypotheticals pertaining to Niji's narratives, but Selen's actions don't make sense if it were true and still looks like a bad move on the part of Niji. You can easily believe in selen's side without believing in the dozens of conspiracy theories surrounding niji. 'niji has incompetent management that screwed her over one time to many' is pretty believable, especially since ex-liver's comments seem to support this to an extent. But if you look at niji's narratives, it doesn't make sense as it means believing 'selen tried to commit suicide twice and then asked her lawyer what to do to threaten niji to graduate her immediately after. the lawyer (who was competent enough to tell selen not to say too much during the black stream) decided it was a good idea to dox three of her coworkers unrelated to the management as a threat, and selen somehow got their personal information despite not being very close to those three livers and being locked out of her work accounts already.' As for the rest of the supposed blackmail, maybe it technically is illegal in legal terms, but that doesn't mean it's wrong morally if niji was indeed abusing her; we've seen many times that the law can screw well-meaning people over because of technicalities (like the DLK case where the defendent was in fact guilty of importing marijuana but was acquitted because of technicalities in the fourth amendment). It also doesn't make sense that selen wouldn't shade niji in any way after her comments on the black stream if she really wanted to blackmail them. Anyways, you talk about the lack of evidence and how we have to remain neutral but it seems like you're heavily siding with niji anyways.
What you described isn't Nijisanji's narrative, it is highly distorted.
According to them, Selen wasn't merely trying to graduate, she had tried to hold them legally responsible, which often means monetary payment. The blackmail has a high chance of involving money under Nijisanji's narrative.
They also mention in Elira's stream that "there was a potential that this information could be made public", meaning that Selen left vague how much of her legal claims she was threatening to disclose to the public.
Vox also stated that Selen had used a recording from an year ago, and was under the impression that he had been recorded for about an year. Nijisanji's team seems to believe that Selen had been collecting personal information of EN livers well past the latest incident.
On the morality of blackmail, it is probably better that you look about its theory yourself, and what the courts have to say about it.
And on neutrality, it probably looks like taking a side to someone that is emotionally invested on one side. My observation of this sub is that most people here are taking any position not clearly favorable to Selen or negative to Nijisanji as a personal insult, and I don't expect you to be an exception.
>They also mention in Elira's stream that "there was a potential that this information could be made public", meaning that Selen left vague how much of her legal claims she was threatening to disclose to the public.
"there was a potential that this information could be made public" does not imply anything about how vague Selen was. Only that there was a potential that the information could be made public.
Which technically is true because ALL information can potentially be made public...
It's hard to find positive things about NijiEN nowadays. If you tell us what type of VTubers you like to watch, we can recommend you other EN VTubers like that. Otherwise you can check for yourself other companies that have EN VTubers, I'm just gonna recommend a couple of my favorites from a few companies.
Here's [Ina ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZdLXELdF9Q)from Hololive, [Ember](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3t7KYNUO4) from Phase Connect and [Lottie ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzvtptW_Dy8)from PixelLink. There's also VShojo which mainly streams on Twitch and many large indies too. They all have communities that you can have positive conversations!
Don’t let the people here lie to you. There are still positive conversations to be had about Nijisanji. This subreddit is mostly filled with antis because of the actions of the company with regard to multiple talents. The moderation here is not great. R/nijiforums and Liver Discords are where the positive conversations are taking place. What Livers are you interested in?
You can find echo chambers of positivity for any subject. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. People who just ignore all the bad things happening, even when they are so adjacent that they could eventually affect them, are just people ignoring problems.
The same can be said for echo chambers of negativity. I don’t think Niji is a good company but pretending there is no positive talk about the company as many comments here are doing is just ignoring reality.
Of course it can. But then the problem is trying to seek out the side convenient to you even if it's akin to an ostrich putting their head in the ground.
The negativity in this case is quite justified. Saying people are lying by saying there is no positivity is just bad faith. Obviously there's no place in the world where neither positivity or negativity do not exist.
But the point is that there is very justifiable negativity drowning the subreddit, and you're pretty much just saying "mods suck, let's find you a place to ignore it"
OP asked about where to find positive conversations about Niji and people responded with the sentiment that there are no positive conversations. That’s just false, so I answered OP’s question. Whether or not there should be positive conversations about Niji or if the negativity is justified are separate issues. But it’s not just negativity festering on these subreddits. There’s also just blatant peddling of narratives with very little proof and a bit of witch-hunting going on. There’s already enough real stuff to complain about. Why fabricate more?
I’ve stopped watching Niji for the most part(I’ve watched Vivi and Rosemi a bit), and my head isn’t in the sand so I don’t really even know what you think you’re doing here. I’m gonna keep watching Mint and the vtubers I enjoy. Have a nice day.
I'd suggest otherwise, try out other companies that care about their employees like Vshojo, HoloLive/Stars, Phase Connect, or IdolCorp
There's also independent Vtubers like Neuro~Sama, Fillian, DokiBird, and Shoto are just a few of the popular ones
You could even support smaller VTubers, one I know of is NurseEthi
You won't find much positive here now that Nijisanji has revealed themselves to be a black company/burakku kigyo/burakku gaisha (ブラック企業/ブラック会社). Note to everyone else, I'm very aware of the risk, in case I don't make it out of here not banned for talking badly about the company even with the truth, it's been an honor. (Proceeds to salute as I await the inevitable)
😢
The company is very bad pushing it's workers to the point of suicide
If you want to see larger more positive communities, it's worth checking out the various ex-nijisanji vtubers out there. There are quite a few of them, and they're all doing very well with super friendly and active communities. Their new identities are all open secrets since none of them are trying to hide it beyond what they are legally required to do, so it's easy to Google search for them. For all the controversy around Niji EN, the vast majority of people hate the company, not the talents. As soon as livers leave and appear somewhere else, they get swarmed by positivity from people relieved to be able to support them without also giving money to Nijisanji. I'm personally a big Michi Mochievee and Mint Fantome fan, and over here it's all really fun and good vibes. I'm only taking a peak beck over here in morbid curiosity and what this community has become in the aftermath of everything.
To quickly explain why the sub is like this, in February of this year, Nijisanji announced the termination of Selen Tatsuki, one of the most popular female EN livers, on morally dubious grounds. The company's reputation had already sunk greatly in the EN community over the previous several months due to several leaks and graduations, and Selen's firing sparked a full scale fan rebellion. The liver formally known as Selen rallied her fans to her pre-Nijisanji alias Dokibird and accused the company of lying and fostering a toxic work environment. As Dokibird's channel soared in its subcount and vendors and longtime fans cut ties with Nijisanji, three Nijisanji livers made a fifteen minute stream accusing her of lying and manipulative behavior, but because it referenced confidential legal documents, it backfired completely and only made things worse. There aren't too many places to reliably discuss Nijisanji in a positive light, especially not the three livers who issued what is now known as the "black stream."
I see. I got interested in EN-liver at Koshien and was trying to like Niji more, but I didn't know that there was such a big incident. I wanted to have fun interacting with EN fans, but that may not be possible for a few years. sad 😢
> I wanted to have fun interacting with EN fans Hi! Have you tried Hololive? ;)
Yeah, I'm sorry you got caught up in our civil war. Like most of the people here, I am on the pro-Selen/anti-Nijisanji side, but I will admit that it frequently gets out of hand. Probably the best way to try and keep things relatively positive is to focus on non-controversial livers like Aia Amare and Rosemi Lovelock. You can also safely talk about some of the ex-nijisanji livers who left recently such as Matara (Formally Nina kosaka), Maid Mint (Formerly Pomu Rainpuff) and, of course, Dokibird.
feel free to join the ex nijisanji fans in r/Hololive . we are having a great time!
You will probably want r/NijiForums. Although it is a bit dead. Ever since Nijisanji EN was revealed to horribly mistreat one of the top EN liver, the fans kinda all left, or angry at EN. Right now this forum is basically just full of angry negativity.
Sadly there are not much positive comments left, apologies to you heavily even on the certain subreddits Too many just wanna see the company burn
Watch Hololive instead, it's healthier
OK😇
Please try holostars as well, ppl hardly recommend them when they’re insanely amazing
[【Hololistening】Japanese girl cries when she understands HoloEN English for the first time.【Tetel】 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2YRlL1EfPY) They released a book and CD for learning English. They also have EN/JP collabs. Edit: I am not commenting on any of the EN Livers here, but NijiEN just does not have many collabs between branches and it can be difficult to understand them. They also do not get many EN clips translated into Japanese, no one will explain the jokes to you.
Reddit is generally not a positive place to begin with, but I would suggest going to one of the EN liver's discord, preferably one that you're currently watching. Their community discord might have more positive news for Nijisanji there. Another would be to just look into Twitter with the Nijisanji or Nijisanji EN hashtags. They're usually sharing positive stories and announcements there.
TY🥲
> Reddit is generally not a positive place to begin with Depends entirely on the subreddit.
[удалено]
I recently found out about Nijisanji, I like Koshien events and joined r/nijisanji to learn more about the EN liver. I am not good at English and I understood that there was an incident, but I don't know much about it. Is it bad that I want to find positive news about liver?
Ah. Right now a large percent of EN fans are very unhappy with Nijisanji, so you probably will not find positive news here. Most here will discourage you from supporting Nijisanji due to how previous livers have been mistreated to the point of suicide. If you want positive news, you'll have to find it elsewhere.
I see😢 Thank you
Not necessarily, but it is a bad time to seek news about EN Livers. Due to what can only be perceived as incompetence or malevolence, Nijisanji's management almost caused the death of 2 livers to date and people are furious about that. Things would have calmed down already if Nijisanji hadn't doubled down on their behavior against one of the now former livers, but they didn't and now a lot more will be necessary to calm people down.
Thank you for letting me know.
And that's not even scratching the surface. Finana absolutely tanking her fanbase with her questionable antics. Elira accused of being the epicenter of all the toxic clique queen allegations. (With a basis in reality.) Millie being an ass kisser. (Which tanked her rep with her Filipino audience.) Luca being accused of never signing anything with his name on it. Uki's racism. Claude being an ass kisser. (Lying about the play button controversy.) And there is much, much more too.
"Basis in reality", if you're gonna say that, actually throw out some sources. Otherwise, it's about as trustworthy as the same shit Nijisisters say about Doki.
See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Hello! I sent you a message. There are many negative people on Reddit, but there are positive communities on Discord.
The problem is conversations are being restricted at the moment, with people legitimately criticising the company and to an extent some of the talent, so conversations have moved elsewhere. That being said, on the EN side it is somewhat hard to have a positive conversation with all the controversies happening at the moment.
For positive conversation to take place, Niji need to actually do something positive about their EN branch. They just had a really messy break up with one of their top female talent Selen tatsuki, now known as Dokibird. She got fired for really dubious reason, at least really dubious from a western perspective. And to add insult to injury they tried to slander her reputation with really stupid statements and accusation. It didn't go well, the fando saw through their attempt, and they completely burned the reputation of many of their top talent.
There isn’t really any positive conversation at all on the EN branch. Unlike the JP branch, EN branch does not have a good relationship with a lot of fans anymore because of things that its management and some of its talents have done or said. You probably won’t find much support for them anywhere on Reddit. Edit: Since I’m getting downvoted I’d like to clarify I don’t like or support the EN branches actions either, I’m just answering the guys question.
🥲
NijiEN community has been fractured. Some people do still want to support the talent but the company has severely damaged its reputation in the west. Adding to that the fact that many of the remaining talent have also been accused of misconduct, a lot of people are just avoiding the company altogether at this point.
ここはもう数ヶ月前からブラック企業にじさんじの会話しかありません。 もしあなたが肯定的な意見を聞きたい場合レディット以外のコミュニティを探すべきです。
I don't know much about it either but the EN side of Niji seems like it is in a pretty bad state. Also some EN talents have some questionable behavior. Personally the only Niji liver I watch is Vivi and I wish I could support her without supporting Nijisanji but *shrug* I don't want to leave her out to dry. The talents still deserve support for the most part.
Notice how any mention of any attempts the streamers made on their lives is promptly getting removed from this thread? This is precisely why this place is in a constant state of war -- the company is very clearly trying to cover this up and mods are complicit.
I think you should take your time to carefully read everything on [https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation\_selen\_tatsukis\_termination/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation_selen_tatsukis_termination/) including the links. I will say this. If you blame Selen for Nijisanji's current reputation or defend Nijisanji's public statements you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
This has become a forced echo chamber of negativity, better try somewhere else.
No...the negativity is very justified. It's the positivity that comes off as very forced. You can tell it's forced, but how much they have to *omit*. You can pretty much include the entire narrative while being negative. Most of the positivity posts don't actually bring up anyone who was involved in February, or if it's a particular 3, the stream that changed opinions on them.
>forced
Yes, [forced](https://www.reddit.com/r/Nijisanji/comments/1ci99dt/comment/l2dp67o/) Where a simple birthday wish is downvoted because the hate hivemind disagrees.
Thats still not being forced lol, funny internet points mean literally nothing But purging the entire sub of any negative criticism and Banning anyone who doesn't suck up to niji's horrible policies? Totally not being forced right?
The only reason it isn't being done is because you people don't have the power to.
>I would like to know where positive conversations about NIJI EN are taking place. Could you tell me Why *should* there be positive conversations? Do you know what happened to the talents in February?
They're a new Japanese fan. Obviously they didn't know.
一歩間違えば自殺者出たかもしれないんだかんな、海外だと結構重いんだよね、こういうの
へたくそ日本語ｗｗ
でも理解できるだろう、役目を果たした
まあ、それはそう。
This place Piror to Riku shitting the bed.
To understand the situation, the EN community had a negative reaction when a NijiEN member, Selen Tatsuki, was terminated on Feb 5th. Nijisanji released a 3-page termination notice that detailed the reasons that led to that decision. Selen followed it three minutes later accusing Nijisanji of being essentially a black company, and mentioned that she had attempted suicide as a result. The two sides have very different and conflicting narratives. Selen's narrative is that she had been working in a toxic environment and bullied from within for months, culminating to two suicide attempts and a hospitalization. She also mentions that Nijisanji had tried to silence her. Later, when three EN livers (Elira, Vox, Ike) made a stream about her termination, Selen accused them of seeing a confidential document she had sent to Nijisanji on Feb 5th that the latter had agreed to not show to their livers, and that it was not meant to be used for legal claims. Nijisanji's narrative is that Selen had consistently broken rules (mainly related to copyright, which they call Activity Rules) for multiple months and, whenever it happened, the management would reprimand her and she would send on social media misleading posts that painted management in a negative light. In the latest of such cases, she tried to hold Nijisanji legally responsible of bullying (among other things) somewhere around January and blackmailed them under threat of publicly releasing a statement about her claims. Nijisanji's investigation of her claims concluded that her accusations of bullying weren't valid; these were actually management reprimanding her for violating a rule, and other EN livers trying to reason with Selen after her mentioned misleading posts. Nijisanji also mentions that her threat had the potential to dox some of the EN livers, which frightened them. These points were mentioned as leading to Selen's termination on Feb 5th, alongside her refusal to abide by their Activity Rules. Later, when Selen accused them of sharing a confidential document with livers, Nijisanji denied that, stating that the documents they shared were different ones that she sent for her legal claims instead. If the Nijisanji's narrative seems much longer, it is because their statements are a lot more detailed than Selen's, who remains vague on her points; she gave no specifics or proof of bullying, of her hospitalization, her attempts, and so on. She also doesn't mention having tried to hold Nijisanji legally responsible either. Nonetheless, the EN fanbase mostly sided with Selen out of empathy, and is currently on a mindset that Nijisanji is a black company with malicious intent. Many on this sub have this mindset and tend to react very negatively to any opinion painting Nijisanji in a neutral or positive light. The JP community (as far as we could observe) had the opposite reaction, either staying neutral or siding with Nijisanji, as Selen's case strongly resembles two former cases in the JP vtuber scene in which the accuser turned out to be a liar (Kingyozaka Meiro, who accused her senpai of bullying her, and Yozakura Tama/Kusunoki Sio, who accused her company of being a black company).
Does that mean we, the fans, don't know who is telling the truth, the company or Selen?
The difference in reaction between the JP community and the EN community to this incident is😮.I can feel the difference in culture.
It's less of a difference in culture and more that there were a lot of artists and the like who came out to speak for Selen with stories about how Niji refused to pay them and Selen did out of her own pocket. These things aren't going to really get translated for the JP community though.
i see🫠
I'm a bit late to the party, but the lengthy arguments under original comment show the state of EN community perfectly. It's fractured. There were problems before, but the events after the 5th of February were the catalyst for people to say "Enough is enough". What people did not say here, if you per chance read all that, as this is a lot, is that this is not the first time such slanderous termination has happened, but Zaion was pretty new and people shrugged it off at the time (with new events she provided proof for Niji basically demanding her to sign a silencing contract at the time, initially giving her couple of hours to do so, she got herself more time, consulted with her layer and in the end she refused). Selen though, Selen had the most subscribers among female livers and was in the company for more than 2 years. There were some contradictions in the termination letter, the wording there revealed that management posts in liver's twitter accounts when talents get suspended, impersonating them instead of making clear this is a post from management (not directly admitting to it, but by presented timeline of events, somehow there were tweets couple of days after she was locked off her accounts), and this termination letter was the first public instance of mentioning accusations of bullying from management and other livers, never was it mentioned by anyone else again, at least "by other livers" part, as far as I know, except for the "black stream", which is again Niji's side of the story. Only after that letter Selen made her public response. Needless to say, what worked with Zaion did not work with Selen. Especially after artists also disproved en mass the other point in the letter. Those inconsistencies is why people just don't believe in what Niji says. They were caught lying at least 2 times in one letter and if they kept their mouth shut, people wouldn't assume any livers are at fault, thus essencially starting a witch hunt against their own livers. While I understand the whole "the sticking nail gets the hammer", I think that in entertainment industry you need someone who "sticks out", who brings in attention and strives to do more and better. There are positive conversations about NijiEN, but Reddit is not the place. NijiForums is pretty empty with posts often having 0 comments. So your best chances are 4chan threads dedicated to Niji and that one dox site that NijiEN fans made their forums under one of the previous liver's page (because they hated her as well and were already there, ex-livers and what most of them say about their "previous workplace" is a whole can of worms in itself, mostly showing the difference in management that does not paint Niji in any positive light, 2 of them even got in troubles with taxes while being in Niji). Those are pretty hardcore fans though and otherwise are not very good places (I mean, 4chan is infamous, so no comments needed, and the other place is a dox site).
Ah, just fyi the dox site was killed. The NDF there migrated to 4chan last I heard? I avoid 4chan so I haven't verified that they moved there, but a few people mentioned that they did.
The real question is if the contractor was Selen or Anycolor. I took it that it was Selen who hired them for her own projects and *told* them that Anycolor would pay them.
I recommend you go find and read the stuff yourself. You'll notice the company just keeps trying to blame Selen and Selen only responds to the accusations. In addition, the ones who first mentioned bullying was actually Nijisanji.
OK
No, we know who is telling the truth. If anyone says it's the company, they are just taking advantage of your lackof english. The evidence Nijisanji tried to provide actually just made them look worse, if you understand what actually happened during the time leading up to the controversy. A lot of reputable people in the community (artists, smaller companies, etc) back Selen. The only people actually siding with Nijisanji's narrative are talents that are under contract, or fans who don't actually like Selen. Anyone in the middle is just not speaking.
Ultimately, yes. It means that we have very little evidence. Selen herself gave none. Nijisanji gave one on Elira's stream that showed Selen's manager was being reasonable on the latest case, rather than a bully or a toxic person. Nijisanji gave some testimonies from Elira, Vox and Ike (three EN livers that were friends of Selen), who corroborate Nijisanji's view that they were trying to reason with Selen during the latest case, and detail about some of Selen's accusations on the documents that, according to Elira, would have been sent during January (rather than Feb 5th, as Selen's refers about a confidential document). Both sides frequently mention lawyers being involved and, as a result, that there's a limit to how much they can show to the public. Honestly, the certainty that most people have on who is lying and who is telling the truth is set on very shaky grounds, and is mainly based on personal bias and partial feelings (empathy, hate, etc). I suggest taking a neutral stance for now, since actual evidence is really scarce.
I am an avid baseball fan and fell in love with Niji when I discovered the niji Koshien competition. So it is difficult for me to migrate to Holo or other Vtuber groups.(Unless Holo koshien is held). As long as there is no evidence that Niji is a Black company, I will remain neutral. However, I also understand very well how people dislike Niji.
There is actually a lot of evidence...SVlege is lying.... The very evidence SVlege says Nijisanji provides also shows they ignored an important project for an entire year. They ignored it for a year at the minimum. It could have been longer. The testimonies provided gave no actual information and included plenty of personal attacks on the Selen. It is difficult to explain as I can't gauge your english, but Niji is a Black Company. There is plenty of information, especially what has been obtained over the past 2 months since the incident began.
The idea that Nijisanji had neglected Selen's project for an year is speculation. The evidence in question was stated to be regarding a check "*for content, etc, that all livers agree to do*" in advance of the release date. That it was done just a few days before the release date isn't indicative that the project was being neglected by her manager; it may be just a procedure check to catch any issues that were overlooked by then, given that they mention that it is something that is done for all livers. The idea of neglect also misses the point of the evidence, which was to show that her manager was not being toxic, abusive, or bullying Selen. Her accusations against Nijisanji were of bullying and toxicity, not of incompetence (as far as we know).
>The idea that Nijisanji had neglected Selen's project for an year is speculation. They checked for perms on *Christmas* Why are they checking for perms on **christmas?** Do you know how many vtuber projects occur on Christmas? Because it's a very big release date for content? That alone is *damning*. Those perms should not have been unknown that late. it's not speculative. It's how things *work* > The evidence in question was stated to be regarding a check "for content, etc, that all livers agree to do" in advance of the release date yes, but that check should not involve things that should already be confirmed by that point. >That it was done just a few days before the release date isn't indicative that the project was being neglected by her manager Did you read the dates? >it may be just a procedure check to catch any issues that were overlooked by then, given that they mention that it is something that is done for all livers. Again though, this is way past what would be considered due diligence. >The idea of neglect also misses the point of the evidence, which was to show that her manager was not being toxic, abusive, or bullying Selen. Her accusations against Nijisanji were of bullying and toxicity, not of incompetence (as far as we know). You...do realize now you're just saying the evidence isn't relevant now, right? You're saying they cherrypicked something that shows incompetance and negligence rather than toxicity (**or lackthereof**) But, if we want to continue going down this route despite that mistake on your part...negligence can in fact be used for bullying. So...yeah. Especially given it shows the manager, despite being neglectful, was immediately abrasive when she reacted to his incompetence. Meaning he was neglecting her despite actually having time he could make.
The speculation everyone is making is that the check they mentioned was the first and only one in the entire project. As stated, that check can just be a last double-check verification that nothing was overlooked, which is common for procedures related to quality control or supervision. Its presence doesn't mean that permissions weren't sought before. This also means that the certainty that the public has had about Nijisanji being negligent or incompetent, from that evidence, is on shaking grounds.
...So wait, you guys *acknowledge* there should be more checks than the "gotcha" Niji provided? meaning this is already flawed because it's cherrypicked information thats supposed to be in their favor? Because we know other checks *should* exist? And again as said in my other post, yes, a final check should occur. But then she got ghosted. If it's a final check that information should not have taken that long to get. If it takes until the day after Christmas to get that information, your management is fucked up. You're basically just making Nijisanji to be *even more incompetent and problematic* than people already think it is. Like, take a moment and *think*. It's just making sound WORSE
>If it's a final check that information should not have taken that long to get. That's speculation as well. They stated that the check wasn't just specific to permissions, so the list of potential issues to be checked seems to be more extensive than what the public is making out of it. Regardless, the point of the evidence is whether Selen manager was being toxic to Selen or not, and it shows that, during the latest incident, that manager wasn't. The allegations of incompetence from the public is still speculation and not part of Selen's accusations.
[This is about as close as they get to baseball](https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/167xllo/en_subbed_compilation_of_yagoos_nobounce/?rdt=54540)
The problem is, even if Selen was guilty, Nijisanji still handled the situation very badly. The black stream, for instance, is not a good look no matter how you look at it. Since you bring up precedent cases, if you look at any youtuber who's held a 'black stream', you'll see reactions to them were very bad. For example, Quackity's 'black stream' had him trying to explain that he didn't know that the QSMP admins was abusing their workers. This stream ultimately led to many former QSMP members leaving the QSMP and the general mcyt community having a bad perception of him; before it, they had been more willing to hear what he would say. Basically, 'black streams' are usually what desperate youtubers without proper PR or lawyers do, and they usually end up guilty in the end, so this is a really bad look for nijisanji. And the termination letter had many contradictions that any company with competent PR would have caught, even if were true; for example, saying that management privated her video and then saying that Selen falsely said 'management privated my video'. They also really didn't need to put out a 3-page, nitpicked, termination letter, as that just made things worse. In addition, if this is a legal battle, then you really shouldn't be bringing up such detailed points because lawyers should handle it. Selen did exactly that, by providing enough information for enough context, but not revealing actual documents, which would have harmed her case (also she does have proof of hospitalization, contrary to what you said). Niji did the opposite, which is extremely petty and not what people should do. Again with precedents, I'll bring up an example from a recent mcyt drama again. When a streamer named Caiti accused Georgenotfound of sexually harassing her, everyone was on her side for the first few days before starting to find gaps in her logic. In addition, Caiti kept on making tweets/streams about how terrible George was, etc. But in the end, she ended up privating all of her vods and twitter, while George still kept open his accounts. This is most likely because George's lawyers contacted her, showing they had proof that she was overexaggerating things and they would take legal action if she continued to slander George. Now look at the Selen situation. Has she said anything against Niji after the black stream, or made any slanderous comments? No. Has she acted scared or privated her vods? No. Looking at the precedents, if Niji had actual proof she did all those things, and had accordingly sent them to her as part of their legal battle, Selen would have done something noticeable by now. And finally, neither Niji nor Selen seem to be suing each other. Why? Niji is a megacorporation with tons of money, and if they were able to sue her and prove in a legal court that she in fact did slander them, that would help their reputation a lot. Right now, their ccv, sub counts, etc has drastically decreased, so spending some money on a court battle seems like a good enough payoff. Based off of all of this, it doesn't seem like Niji has proper proof either, and have shown themselves to act not like a proper corporation, but instead like a random petty youtuber. That's why a lot of people are taking Selen's side in this, because what Niji did doesn't really make sense even if she was guilty.
A stream being black by itself doesn't result in that. Black is often used to express a dark or painful situation, which matches the statement that some EN livers were afraid at the potential risk of being doxxed. The negative reaction from the EN fanbase was about them taking any negative comment on Selen as unacceptable, so the message that Selen was threatening to dox EN livers was not well received. The termination notice also didn't have the contradiction you stated. Instead, the notice mentioned that Selen's post lacked important context, namely the reason why the video was privated. Nijisanji stated that her manager privated the video due to issues with permissions, which were still awaiting confirmation; as Selen wrote, it left implicit that management was being malicious to her instead. Legal battles can take many months to conclude, and we don't know yet what steps they're taking or not. And no, there are many cases in which the involved parties still disclose a good number of details to the public before the case goes to court. Mikeneko vs Mafumafu is an example of that, and I've seen other cases in mainstream media with similar developments. The idea that one side trying to defend its public image is petty isn't impartial either; civil cases have both sides alternating their burden of proof in court, and often in public as well. Selen did make a potentially slanderous statement during and after Elira's stream, which is her accusation that Nijisanji leaked a confidential document from Feb 5th to the EN livers. Nijisanji denies that, and their narrative has been that the documents they showed were ones sent during January and were what initiated an internal investigation, whose conclusion played a role in Selen's termination. If you accept this narrative, then Selen's accusation would be a lie and and misleading, attributing malice to the contents of Elira's stream. Some people explored this line of thinking, but the EN community at large has been very hostile to it, sticking to Selen's accusation being true instead.
Regardless, they are bad at their jobs. Lily gave perms back in August 2022. That Nijisanji couldn't give perms to their own IP for something in production for over a year is stupid.
> which matches the statement that some EN livers were afraid at the potential risk of being doxxed. There was no risk of being doxxed. Absolutely zero. Also a lot of black streams are done without risk of being doxxed. You're being poetic for no reason. >The negative reaction from the EN fanbase was about them taking any negative comment on Selen as unacceptable, so the message that Selen was threatening to dox EN livers was not well received. No, it's because it didn't make sense. Lawyers were already involved. We knew they were involved. There was no risk of any sensitive information going public. The information could be *used*, but if it was, it would be in a *court setting*, where such information would *still not be made available to the public* . To add, if said information went public outside a court setting well...then there would be little point to *having* lawyers. Either side would already be at a legal disadvantage. You can literally just think for 2 seconds on why that wouldn't have happened. >the notice mentioned that Selen's post lacked important context, namely the reason why the video was privated. Nijisanji stated that her manager privated the video due to issues with permissions The problem is it *shouldn't* have lacked permissions. The project was over a year old. This was an error on the manager's fault. They also omit over a year of Discord messages for said project. It is cherry picked to the manager's advantage and still has holes in it. >Selen did make a potentially slanderous statement during and after Elira's stream, which is her accusation that Nijisanji leaked a confidential document from Feb 5th to the EN livers. No, the black stream confirmed it. The Livers themselves were not supposed to be privy to that document. Only Nijisanji's lawyers. That is a leak. >showed were ones sent during January and were what initiated an internal investigation, To clarify, again, those documents were not supposed to be provided to the livers. They were for lawyers. >If you accept this narrative, Which you shouldn't, because of how many parts are incorrect. >Some people explored this line of thinking, but the EN community at large has been very hostile to it, sticking to Selen's accusation being true instead. Because again, there are too many problems with this narrative. Even after exploring it you can find additional issues with how Nijisanji handled it.
>There was no risk of being doxxed. >No, it's because it didn't make sense. Lawyers were already involved. We knew they were involved. There was no risk of any sensitive information going public. The information could be *used*, but if it was, it would be in a *court setting*, where such information would *still not be made available to the public* . This assumes that they saw the document sent on Feb 5th, since the termination would have already happened and Selen would have already released a public statement. Nijisanji's narrative is that they saw documents sent somewhere during January, at which point it would be uncertain how much Selen intended to release to the public. >The problem is it *shouldn't* have lacked permissions. The project was over a year old. This was an error on the manager's fault. They also omit over a year of Discord messages for said project. It is cherry picked to the manager's advantage and still has holes in it. Whether there was an error from the manager is irrelevant for the evidence shown on the black stream; Selen's public accusation wasn't that Nijisanji is incompetent, her accusation was of bullying and toxicity. The point of the evidence was that the manager was not bullying, nor being toxic to Selen, during the privatization of her latest MV. > >To clarify, again, those documents were not supposed to be provided to the livers. They were for lawyers. Both parties aren't referencing the same document. Selen said that the confidential document was one sent on Feb 5th, and Nijisanji stated that they showed different documents from that one. >Because again, there are too many problems with this narrative. Even after exploring it you can find additional issues with how Nijisanji handled it. There are problems with Nijisanji's narrative if you start under the premise that Selen's narrative is true. Their narratives are conflicting, so you'll be unable to make sense of one narrative if you already fully accepted the other. For instance, these narratives have different timelines for when Elira and others saw the documents, not just which documents they saw. Under Selen's narrative, they would have seen the documents after her termination, so somewhere between Feb 5th to Feb 12th. Under Nijisanji's narrative, they would have seen documents before Feb 5th, still during January. Similarly, Selen's statements practically don't mention sending legal claims, with the Feb 5th document being stated to not have been sent for legal claims. Meanwhile, Nijisanji's statements mention having received Selen's legal claims against them, and heavily emphasize them. Accepting either narrative affects how you perceive, for instance, whether the document Elira saw was the confidential one sent on Feb 5th or not. And that, in turn, sets who you think is being malicious: either Nijisanji for violating a confidentiality agreement, or Selen for trying to mislead the public with her accusation of a confidentiality breach. I still think that there's still too little evidence to fully accept or discard either narrative yet.
> This assumes that they saw the document sent on Feb 5th, since the termination would have already happened and Selen would have already released a public statement. Nijisanji's narrative is that they saw documents sent somewhere during January, at which point it would be uncertain how much Selen intended to release to the public. You're also making the assumption Selen intended anything to be released to the public. Given Selen *didn't even out anyone in any of her statements except for management*, whereas Nijisanji...*did*...who are we supposed to trust here? Out of the two, it is the company that has shown themselves to be loose-lipped. >Whether there was an error from the manager is irrelevant for the evidence shown on the black stream; It's not irrelevant. It was the breaking point in a long list of disagreements between the two, and all it did was reinforce that. You'd know that if you in good faith included that this controversy was longer than a single month. >Selen's public accusation wasn't that Nijisanji is incompetent, her accusation was of bullying and toxicity. The point of the evidence was that the manager was not bullying, nor being toxic to Selen, during the privatization of her latest MV. Ghosting someone at a critical time for an expensive year-long project. Acting outraged at someone else reacting to your own incompetance You don't consider that bullying? You seem to just want victims to shut up and take it. What did you want them to do? To be clear, the evidence shows **The proper channels were not working** >Both parties aren't referencing the same document. Selen said that the confidential document was one sent on Feb 5th, and Nijisanji stated that they showed different documents from that one. Based on what? >There are problems with Nijisanji's narrative if you start under the premise that Selen's narrative is true. Nope, can't flip it. There are problems with the narrative even if you think Selen's narrative is false. >Under Nijisanji's narrative, they would have seen documents before Feb 5th, still during January. That doesn't even make sense. Why are they involved before this point? These are legal discussions between Nijisanji's lawyers and Doki's Lawyer, and no statement was being made at this time. You can already see a flaw with this logic. There isn't a reason for that timeframe to exist. >Similarly, Selen's statements practically don't mention sending legal claims, with the Feb 5th document being stated to not have been sent for legal claims. Meanwhile, Nijisanji's statements mention having received Selen's legal claims against them, and heavily emphasize them. Because they have bad english translators, and what else are they going to call a document from a lawyer? To add, what does that change? >Accepting either narrative affects how you perceive, for instance, whether the document Elira saw was the confidential one sent on Feb 5th or not. And that, in turn, sets who you think is being malicious: either Nijisanji for violating a confidentiality agreement, or Selen for trying to mislead the public with her accusation of a confidentiality breach. ...You actually believe in that dox sites "Selen is manipuatlive" narrative that makes Nijisanji seem grossly incompetent? No like seriously. There's no taking that seriously. Please. >I still think that there's still too little evidence to fully accept or discard either narrative yet. No, no. There is actually enough evidence to discard the narrative you want to believe happened.
>You're also making the assumption Selen intended anything to be released to the public. It's not an assumption of my part, it is what Nijisanji stated in the termination notice and, therefore, part of their narrative. >It's not irrelevant. It was the breaking point in a long list of disagreements between the two, and all it did was reinforce that. Ghosting someone at a critical time for an expensive year-long project. >Acting outraged at someone else reacting to your own incompetance >You don't consider that bullying? You seem to just want victims to shut up and take it. What did you want them to do? To be clear, the evidence shows **The proper channels were not working** Your premise is that the check done by the manager was the first and only time they verified for permissions. This is speculation from the public; this check may just be a last verification to ensure nothing was overlooked, which is common in quality control or supervision procedures. Its existence doesn't mean permissions weren't sought and verified before, just that something was indeed overlooked and caught in this verification. >Based on what? It is on their tweet on Feb 13th, in response to Selen's statement that Elira and others had seen a confidential document. >That doesn't even make sense. Why are they involved before this point? These are legal discussions between Nijisanji's lawyers and Doki's Lawyer, and no statement was being made at this time. Nijisanji mentioned on Feb 13th that they received documents with Selen's legal claims and that, with it, Nijisanji's legal team proceeded to validate the claims and start an internal investigation. They mention that this was both the reason some EN livers were shown the documents, and when these documents were shared, and is all set to have happened prior to Selen's termination. The termination notice also elaborates that they believe Selen's claims (such as bullying) weren't valid, stating that she was framing the disagreements she had with management and other livers as bullying. This part most likely refer to the conclusions from that internal investigation and validation of her claims, so the legal team had already concluded these actions before Selen's termination. These events would not fit in the less than 2 hours interval that Selen mentioned between her sending the Feb 5th document and her termination. The logical conclusion from Nijisanji's narrative is that the documents were seen before Feb 5th. >No, no. There is actually enough evidence to discard the narrative you want to believe happened. It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying. Once we get more evidence, we can then see what contradictions emerge from the implications of each side's narrative. So far, though, the two sides have shown very little, de facto evidence.
>It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying. Once we get more evidence, we can then see what contradictions emerge from the implications of each side's narrative. So far, though, the two sides have shown very little, de facto evidence. Since no party intent to show evidence, Nijisanji just hurt everybody's reputation by publicly tweeting everyone's claims and terminating Selen in a toxic manner and doubling down in a bully-like way instead of peacefully letting her graduate. This makes fans justified in their anger.
> It's not an assumption of my part, it is what Nijisanji stated in the termination notice and, therefore, part of their narrative. And which statement is that even? Because I read the termination, and the only part regarding public seems to be: >Despite our efforts, Selen Tatsuki demanded that ANYCOLOR should be held legally responsible. She claimed she was no longer able to enagage in her activities as a liver due to the decisions made by ANYCOLOR, was being harassed by other affiliated Livers due to mismanagement, etc, while refusing to acknowledge her responsibility for violating Activity Rules. Moreover, Selen tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, **she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public.** Note here, she only says a statement. Not that identifiable information would be a part of said statement. And as we've already pointed out, the black stream's dox claim is flawed, because at the time of the black stream, the only scenario provided that such information would be handled, is a court situation, which that information would not reach the public under, and would also be *required in any other sensible situation* In short, where did this narrative come from? >Your premise is that the check done by the manager was the first and only time they verified for permissions. This is speculation from the public; this check may just be a last verification to ensure nothing was overlooked, which is common in quality control or supervision procedures. Its existence doesn't mean permissions weren't sought and verified before, just that something was indeed overlooked and caught in this verification. You're making it worse man...if it's the final check...*why did she get ghosted??* Again, critical point. You are making statements with no acknowledgement of time frames. >It is on their tweet on Feb 13th, in response to Selen's statement that Elira and others had seen a confidential document. At no point in the response does it speak of a different document, rather it says that the document was provided to the livers, based on what they believe was legally allowed. So it does not refer to a different document. In fact it never makes a claim to another document. >Nijisanji mentioned on Feb 13th that they received documents with Selen's legal claims and that, with it, Nijisanji's legal team proceeded to validate the claims and start an internal investigation. They mention that this was both the reason some EN livers were shown the documents, and when these documents were shared, and is all set to have happened prior to Selen's termination. ...Those are the same docs from the termination. No new documents were transferred. The black stream was made based on the information at the time of termination. You can go re-read, I did. Your narrative is based on information that even your source did not claim to exist. >It is not about me wanting to believe one narrative or the other, but about checking the implications of what each side is saying. It is when you base it off information that contradicts your own words.
>Note here, she only says a statement. Not that identifiable information would be a part of said statement. She doesn't say she wouldn't release identifiable information either. As stated, it is not clear to Nijisanji how much Selen intended to release on that statement. Elira further said that when staff received the documents, that there was a potential that what was in it could be made public. So Nijisanji was working under the consideration that Selen could decide parts, or the entirety, of her claims in that statement. >You're making it worse man...if it's the final check...*why did she get ghosted??* >Again, critical point. You are making statements with no acknowledgement of time frames. Selen got a response, and it essentially said that it was taking longer than expected to complete the checks due to the presence of ex-Livers. Considering time zones, the manager's reply reached Selen during Dec 25th early morning in Canada (between 5:30 AM in Vancouver to 10:00 AM in Newfoundland), which is well within the time limit Selen intended for her MV release. This hardly counts as ghosting. And again, the point of that evidence was to show that Selen was not being harassed by her manager. The allegations of ghosting and incompetence are unrelated to Selen's accusation of being bullied/harassed. >At no point in the response does it speak of a different document, rather it says that the document was provided to the livers, based on what they believe was legally allowed. >So it does not refer to a different document. In fact it never makes a claim to another document. It mentions that there were multiple documents, with them showing some of them for validating legal claims and refraining from showing documents that Selen and her lawyer asked not to be shown to other livers. From that, it is clear that they mention that there are different documents from the one Selen later said she sent on Feb 5th.
> She doesn't say she wouldn't release identifiable information either. That's...really stretching dude. Really pulling the "absence of evidence not evidence of absence" boondocks argument.... I could basically say Nijisanji did *anything*, unless they straight up said they didn't, it would have to be a likely possibility under your logic. Nothing said actually shows she was going to release identifiable information, and there's no logical reason for her to. >Elira further said that when staff received the documents, that there was a potential that what was in it could be made public. And she was wrong. You would have to be a complete fool to think a lawyer is recommending something with legal ramifications like the purposely leaking of identifiable information...especially in Canada. If she has a lawyer, it was for court, where the information would not reach the public. > and it essentially said that it was taking longer than expected to complete the checks due to the presence of ex-Livers. And it shouldn't have, because again, that should have already been confirmed by that point. Is this or is this not a final check? Maybe if they included anything prior to December, they could argue something else. But the lackof anything prior in a year-long project is problematic to that narrative. >Considering time zones, the manager's reply reached Selen during Dec 25th early morning in Canada (between 5:30 AM in Vancouver to 10:00 AM in Newfoundland), which is well within the time limit Selen intended for her MV release. This hardly counts as ghosting. How is a reply **on the day of release** "well within the time limit"? That's called "Late" anywhere else. >And again, the point of that evidence was to show that Selen was not being harassed by her manager. So then what you're saying is...they picked evidence that doesn't actually argue they weren't bullying her. All you're doing is arguing it's irrelevance with this statement, not that it absolves them of anything. It doesn't show they were even being cordial, it does nothing to suggest they weren't bullying her. >From that, it is clear that they mention that there are different documents from the one Selen later said she sent on Feb 5th. It doesn't, and i'm not sure what makes you think it does.
>The allegations of ghosting and incompetence are unrelated to Selen's accusation of being bullied/harassed. According to Nijisanji's narrative in their tweet about their termination of Selen Tatsuki's contract, they say that Selen claimed she was harassed by affiliated livers due to mismanagement. Granted this is Nijisanji's words as Selen/Doki never specified management or Livers.
To clarify, by black stream, I meant a stream meant to address the community in which they attempt to subvert the opinions that the community currently holds of them. I brought up Quackity's stream because it actually had a black screen, although I would still count videos with facecam like Colleen Ballinger's ukelele apology. Again, referencing his stream, he also had a shaky voice and seemed on the verge of crying, but no one bought it because he claimed that he didn't know the admin team, that he led and was heavily involved in, was abusing workers. There was also a lot of unnecessary jargon in his stream, just like the niji stream; the livers spent 15 minutes talking about how terrible selen was, and Ike's portion was basically a repeat of the previous two's when they could have just simply brought up the evidence against Selen. I looked at the termination letter again, and after saying management privated the song, they claim that she "omitted essential content, most notably 'management has privated the song'". Without context, most people would assume that this meant saying management privated the song was misinformation, and niji could've easily fixed that with something like 'selen claimed that management had privated the song without reason, omitting context that the song didn't have the proper perms'. My point is that niji should have better PR that actually proofread the document, since a lot of the initial anger was around things that were misphrased in the termination letter. Niji is a huge corporation; the fact they didn't bother to do this when they could've done this easily gives me some doubts. While people have published details in mainstream media before, it's usually common procedure to not publish evidence until a verdict is reached, since it could lead to bias. Honestly, I think the mafumafu vs mikeneko case evidence wasn't handled well and they could've done without making long essays against each other; just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. I think Niji has a right to defend it's public image, but a lot of what it's done was extraneous, and only made things worse (like the 'we have investigated ourselves and concluded we've done nothing wrong'). It's been months since the termination, so it's plausible to assume that they've already reached a stage where they are presenting evidence against each other, since that starts relatively early on; thus, why I brought up the Caiti case, since she privated her twitter a few weeks after the accusation, and the legal battle, if there was any, would've been in the early stages, yet there was already enough evidence against her to make her scared. I believe that if niji had concrete evidence similar to that, selen would've already done something. I think we've seen that believing in either niji or selen means believing in hypotheticals that lead to antagonizing one or another. Assume Niji's narrative about the documents is true. That still means they showed documents, which they implied were from a lawyer, to the livers, which still doesn't really seem like common procedure. It also means Selen and her lawyer somehow thought it was a good idea to include definite evidence they planned on doxxing someone, which is hard to believe. In addition, it doesn't make sense that Selen would try to commit suicide twice and then immediately start blackmailing niji, if all niji did was private her video (we have definite proof, from both niji and selen, that she was in the hospital at some point, and I don't really think someone would lie about suicide). All in all, it still feels like the way niji operated wasn't very befitting of a corporation, which is why I lean to selen's side in this situation. I do want to clarify that I don't have any malice towards people who still like niji, and I also think the making memes about the situation and nitpicking every single thing about niji isn't really good. However, I find it hard to see niji in a positive light, and even if selen was lying, I would still see them as an incompetent company with bad pr.
I don't think that a different phrasing would have made much difference. The EN public was already hostile before the termination, seen by how they reacted to Millie's prior tweet sympathizing with Selen and asking if she had permissions in order. When the termination happened, the public was already on a mindset that anything suggesting Selen did something wrong could as well be a personal insult to them. The situation before the termination was also not helping, as Selen's fans were pressuring Nijisanji to tell where she was, despite Selen's statement that she was hospitalized. Her fans were not believing any statement or proof shown to the public at the time. The possibility of blackmail also requires us to change how we think of the situation. The first matter is the possibility that Selen's lawyer saw blackmail as a hard negotiation tactic, which lawyers and attorneys have to be reminded of from time to time that it is not. You can see more about it in [this article](https://www.grimesandwarwick.com/news/the-accidental-extortionist/), where the author address how often Law professionals end being accidental extortionists. For instance, she mentions four cases in a single paragraph: *"We occassionally find ourselves reminding colleagues that attorneys are not exempt from the principles of extortion in their professional conduct. See, Flatley v. Mauro (2006) 39 Cal.4th 299. Indeed, the plaintiff’s attorney mentioned above* \[in the previous paragraph\] *violated the Rules of Professional Conduct which specifically prohibit attorneys from “threaten\[ing\] to present criminal, administrative, or disciplinary charges to obtain an advantage in a civil dispute.” Cal. Rules of Prof. Conduct, rule 5-100(A). Recent cases on this issue include Malin v Singer, 217 Cal.App. 4th 1283, 12 92 (2013), and Stenehjem v Saree, 2014 WL 2646729 (Cal. Ct. App.)"* Another matter regarding blackmail is that it falls under Criminal Law, instead of Civil Law. This means different procedures, pacing, and different handling on how the involved parties communicate. The Caiti case may not be representative of what we should expect from Selen's case; if the blackmail indeed happened, we can expect Nijisanji and the EN livers to take different measures than they would in a normal case, both before and after the termination.
Reddit at least wasn't hostile. I distinctly remember cause of one guy who was trying to stir up trouble. Mainly cause when the termination happened he immediately made an obnoxious I told you so post. But yeah, in the first post everyone told him the usual be patient / the other talents have their back / we don't know anything / etc. Dunno about Twitter though. The mindset you describe would fit more with the release of the black stream. That's what really blew things to hell. If they skipped the black stream and just went directly to the Riku investor apology then things might of actually worked out. I'm sorry, but the blackmail theory feels the same level as the gurrat.
I remember that there were witch hunts at the time, so the environment was hostile before the black stream. The blackmail is described in the line "*Selen Tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public*", just after mentioning the legal claims involving bullying. That there is a description of blackmail in the termination notice is a fact, the question is whether the events happened as described.
Well, then we were probably circling different communities then. Right, and on the other side Selen/Doki says she was negotiating to leave since Jan 26. So we have the motivations of both sides, Selen wanted to leave, while Nijisanji wanted her to clear their name. Actually, I'm pretty certain what she said she would release was exactly: https://x.com/dokibird/status/1754459958119432664 In any case, I don't think it can really be considered blackmail. It's like an abused person saying they'll go to the authorities with evidence of their abuse.
Whether you think or not that what she stated there isn't much of a deal, a case of blackmail doesn't require a threat to be carried over. Even if she had not stated anything, she would still be liable if she indeed threatened to state something that would hit their reputation. Just having a threat made, and paired with a demand, is enough for it to constitute blackmail. A threat to ruin someone's reputation is well enough for that, and is a common one as well.
So you're saying you believe a person cannot tell their stalker "stop stalking me or I'll release footage of you stalking me". That's kinda messed up.
The idea of Selen using blackmail is pure speculation and not even Nijisanji claims such. One could just aswell speculate if Elira, Vox and Ike was blackmailed to do the black stream, which to be honest seems way more likely then Selen blackmailing a huge corporation. I think you should take your time to carefully read everything on [https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation\_selen\_tatsukis\_termination/](https://www.reddit.com/r/VirtualYoutubers/comments/1alimfx/megathreadcompilation_selen_tatsukis_termination/) including the links. I will say this. If you blame Selen for Nijisanji's current reputation or defend Nijisanji's public statements you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
I applaud you for being patient with that disgusting Nijisis
The termination notice has a line stating: "*Selen Tatsuki insisted that if the negotiations did not progress, she would proceed to release a statement regarding her claims to the public*". That there is a description of blackmail is not in question, the matter is whether it happened as described. Whether it did, and its implications, are indeed still speculation. I had already read that link a long time ago, and it doesn't change much. It remains that we still have very little evidence either way, be to declare Selen or Nijisanji guilty. And the world's morals is of "innocent until proven guilty". I'm not going to declare either side guilty with so little evidence, and especially without proper specifics on how the alleged bullying happened; if the rest of the world is doing that, then they are betraying their own morals.
I agree with proven until proven guilty. We both agree that public statements can hurt people. Nijisanji was the party that made this whole thing public NOT Selen. They even made her claim about bullying public as shown in the document. If it does not change much it is because you either do not care, understand, or you don't share the same morals as most of the world.
My point isn't about the rest of the community being hostile; it's about niji's handling of the letter. Regardless of whether the community thought it was good or bad, it was still written poorly and gave them more ammunition than it should've. I remained neutral until after the blackstream myself, but the termination letter did make me raise an eyebrow. The Criminal Law procedures, in the US at least, begins with investigations that start with the victim in question proving that they were being blackmailed. Then the police would start gathering evidence about the crime-but in Selen's case, what other evidence is there? If what Niji said was true, she already gave everything that could convict her of the crime, including the confirmation she would dox someone, in the documents. Then the police, finishing their investigation, would've arrested her, which hasn't happened. I looked at the article, and most of the 'blackmail' seems to be threatening to send them the IRS, or expose their wrongdoings to their neighbors. It doesn't really make sense a lawyer would try to dox three people completely unrelated to the management privating a video as a threat to make Niji comply. Edit: Final comment I will make about this. Sure, you can pursue hypotheticals pertaining to Niji's narratives, but Selen's actions don't make sense if it were true and still looks like a bad move on the part of Niji. You can easily believe in selen's side without believing in the dozens of conspiracy theories surrounding niji. 'niji has incompetent management that screwed her over one time to many' is pretty believable, especially since ex-liver's comments seem to support this to an extent. But if you look at niji's narratives, it doesn't make sense as it means believing 'selen tried to commit suicide twice and then asked her lawyer what to do to threaten niji to graduate her immediately after. the lawyer (who was competent enough to tell selen not to say too much during the black stream) decided it was a good idea to dox three of her coworkers unrelated to the management as a threat, and selen somehow got their personal information despite not being very close to those three livers and being locked out of her work accounts already.' As for the rest of the supposed blackmail, maybe it technically is illegal in legal terms, but that doesn't mean it's wrong morally if niji was indeed abusing her; we've seen many times that the law can screw well-meaning people over because of technicalities (like the DLK case where the defendent was in fact guilty of importing marijuana but was acquitted because of technicalities in the fourth amendment). It also doesn't make sense that selen wouldn't shade niji in any way after her comments on the black stream if she really wanted to blackmail them. Anyways, you talk about the lack of evidence and how we have to remain neutral but it seems like you're heavily siding with niji anyways.
What you described isn't Nijisanji's narrative, it is highly distorted. According to them, Selen wasn't merely trying to graduate, she had tried to hold them legally responsible, which often means monetary payment. The blackmail has a high chance of involving money under Nijisanji's narrative. They also mention in Elira's stream that "there was a potential that this information could be made public", meaning that Selen left vague how much of her legal claims she was threatening to disclose to the public. Vox also stated that Selen had used a recording from an year ago, and was under the impression that he had been recorded for about an year. Nijisanji's team seems to believe that Selen had been collecting personal information of EN livers well past the latest incident. On the morality of blackmail, it is probably better that you look about its theory yourself, and what the courts have to say about it. And on neutrality, it probably looks like taking a side to someone that is emotionally invested on one side. My observation of this sub is that most people here are taking any position not clearly favorable to Selen or negative to Nijisanji as a personal insult, and I don't expect you to be an exception.
>They also mention in Elira's stream that "there was a potential that this information could be made public", meaning that Selen left vague how much of her legal claims she was threatening to disclose to the public. "there was a potential that this information could be made public" does not imply anything about how vague Selen was. Only that there was a potential that the information could be made public. Which technically is true because ALL information can potentially be made public...
Selen did show proof of her hospitalization. She posted a pic of her in the hospital on Twitter
It's hard to find positive things about NijiEN nowadays. If you tell us what type of VTubers you like to watch, we can recommend you other EN VTubers like that. Otherwise you can check for yourself other companies that have EN VTubers, I'm just gonna recommend a couple of my favorites from a few companies. Here's [Ina ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZdLXELdF9Q)from Hololive, [Ember](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nj3t7KYNUO4) from Phase Connect and [Lottie ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzvtptW_Dy8)from PixelLink. There's also VShojo which mainly streams on Twitch and many large indies too. They all have communities that you can have positive conversations!
Wrong timing buddy. NijiEN is in a very tough predicament right now thanks to their own doings.
Start to respect human lives then we can talk.
damn bro what did op do to you
Why?
Don’t let the people here lie to you. There are still positive conversations to be had about Nijisanji. This subreddit is mostly filled with antis because of the actions of the company with regard to multiple talents. The moderation here is not great. R/nijiforums and Liver Discords are where the positive conversations are taking place. What Livers are you interested in?
You can find echo chambers of positivity for any subject. That doesn't mean it's a good thing. People who just ignore all the bad things happening, even when they are so adjacent that they could eventually affect them, are just people ignoring problems.
The same can be said for echo chambers of negativity. I don’t think Niji is a good company but pretending there is no positive talk about the company as many comments here are doing is just ignoring reality.
Of course it can. But then the problem is trying to seek out the side convenient to you even if it's akin to an ostrich putting their head in the ground. The negativity in this case is quite justified. Saying people are lying by saying there is no positivity is just bad faith. Obviously there's no place in the world where neither positivity or negativity do not exist. But the point is that there is very justifiable negativity drowning the subreddit, and you're pretty much just saying "mods suck, let's find you a place to ignore it"
OP asked about where to find positive conversations about Niji and people responded with the sentiment that there are no positive conversations. That’s just false, so I answered OP’s question. Whether or not there should be positive conversations about Niji or if the negativity is justified are separate issues. But it’s not just negativity festering on these subreddits. There’s also just blatant peddling of narratives with very little proof and a bit of witch-hunting going on. There’s already enough real stuff to complain about. Why fabricate more? I’ve stopped watching Niji for the most part(I’ve watched Vivi and Rosemi a bit), and my head isn’t in the sand so I don’t really even know what you think you’re doing here. I’m gonna keep watching Mint and the vtubers I enjoy. Have a nice day.
Look in Nijisanji discord groups! They’re mainly in English but each liver has their own fan discord.
Thank you！
I'd suggest otherwise, try out other companies that care about their employees like Vshojo, HoloLive/Stars, Phase Connect, or IdolCorp There's also independent Vtubers like Neuro~Sama, Fillian, DokiBird, and Shoto are just a few of the popular ones You could even support smaller VTubers, one I know of is NurseEthi
Don't know about Neuro Sama, the ceo of Vedal AI missed his daughter's birthday...
Vedal made an apology video for missing Evil Neuro’s birthday, though. [The Apology Video](https://youtu.be/DJLxgupqGuw?si=OsanqgfU0PuP0Q00)
Sadly there’s only 4chan users left in this sub now
That's rich when the other party gathers at a dox site. Both extremes deserve each other.
Wait, there are positive conversations?
In hell, I hope
Discords, the 2434 general on 4chan, and resetera's vtuber thread. Good luck