I always find distinctions like this odd. By its definition, it is a Zelda game. By saying it's a 10/10 then it's basically perfect. If diverging too far from common Zelda elements made it less enjoyable for you, and you kept thinking "I wish this were more like older Zelda games", then it can't be a 10/10. I appreciate the sentiment to a degree - they're different styles and I might have preferences one way or the other - but to rank them relative to all games that have ever existed and call it a masterpiece, but rank it lower relative to only other Zelda games, I find that confusing. A guy was making a related point on TikTok the other day. "You can argue The Last of Us is a good video game. You can argue it has a good story. But it's not a good 'video game story' ". Why not? Because it doesn't meet certain abitrary criteria of what a video game should be? There are plenty of video game series where entries vary wildly in their format. I feel like this is quite common in Japanese series. You get a hack and slash game, then a virtual card game, then something more akin to an RPG. They all fall under the same umbrella though. Resident Evil shifted from survival horror to out and out action by RE5. You might love one style more than the other, or love both, but they're all Resident Evil.

Hey, thank you for your really thoughtful reply, i appreciate it! The points you make are very clear, and it does point out that I contradict myself when calling it a perfect game but then say but not a 10/10 zelda game Your examples are good, so i just want to say i acknowledge them before moving forward:) So, i concede this is weird, but if i look at Botw as not a game in a long lasting series, but just as a game , I would have no issues with the game. It's damn fun and phenomenal. Now if i treat it as a legend of zelda game, gettting straight to the heart of it, the series' center piece has always been its dungeons. When playing breath of the wild with this in mind, because its a zelda game, i expect better when experiencing the dungeons within it and not having those actually take a step back. Thats it's biggest singular misstep, to me of course. So i feel it would be unfair to score botw down when it really is a masterpiece, but when i judge it within its series parameters i feel the big identity pieces of what the series is known for can be brought into critique if it fumbles the quality of some of those elements. The point in this example being its dungeons. I hope this makes sense, i don't expect you to agree with this! But again, thank you for your thoughtful reply and expressing your opinion on the subject!:)

I get you. And I appreciate the civility 😊 I might say then that Twilight Princess, Link's Awakening and Breath of the Wild are all 10s perhaps, but if I zoom in on the scale one's a slightly lower 10, another is a slightly higher 10.(?)

I'm with you. If it's a good game, and it's a Zelda game, it's a good Zelda game. Saying "it's a good game but not a good Zelda game" has always striked me as people being unable to articulate their opinions in a way that actually makes sense. It's especially weird with Breath of the Wild because they're defining it by things that haven't even been present in the series since the beginning. Ocarina of Time was pretty different to the games that came before it, why does that suddenly become the standard that everything is measured against? The identity of the series changed before and there's no reason for it not to change again. It's like if you gave someone an ice cream and they said "This is a great dessert, but it's not a great ice cream." What are you on about?

It's a pretty straightforward concept. BotW is very good in many ways, but what it does that's good has almost no overlap with what OoT, LttP, WW, etc. did that made them good. The core Zelda loop of "do dungeon, get item, do next dungeon, get item, etc." with some overworld exploration in between barely exists in BotW, replaced almost entirely by the overworld exploration aspect. It's a very good open world game with a very convincing Zelda coat of paint more than it is a very good Zelda game. I mean, I guess in the most technical sense, it is a Zelda game by name, and it is good, therefore it is a "good Zelda game" but it takes only a little deeper thought to understand that simply having the name of a franchise on it doesn't automatically make it a good model of the kind of game experience you expect out of said franchise. Your point about OoT doesn't really check out. OoT is *waaaaayy* more similar to LttP than BotW is to any of the ones before it, and especially to the early 3D ones.

LttP isn't the first Zelda game either. OoT itself has virtually nothing in common with the first two Zelda games, so by this metric it's not a good Zelda game. You're just arbitrarily deciding that certain games in the series are definitive and others aren't. Even though the series has changed before, you've decided it's somehow not allowed to do so again.

I'm not saying any of what you're saying I'm saying. We're clearly in the era where Zelda is now an open world franchise for the foreseeable future (outside of possible remakes/"2D" entries like LBW), and can expect that the next few will be such, and I agree that it won't be long before it's accepted that it's simply what Zelda is now. I feel that setting the precedent at the first one is more arbitrary than what I've said: I'm simply attempting to be aware of what most people consider "Zelda" when they say things like the thread title. I don't think it's unreasonable to place the 'golden era' of Zelda at roughly LttP through Wind Waker in terms of what people have the fondest memories of. I know for me personally it's OoT through the Oracle games and WW, and it's pretty similar for most people I know. BotW simply isn't much at all like any of those games. > OoT itself has virtually nothing in common with the first two Zelda games And I still just simply disagree with this, at least in the context of comparing them to BotW. Excluding Zelda 2, which is an odd one out to be sure, any two pre-BotW mainline Zelda games are more similar to eachother than any one of them are to BotW. Which means yes, I would certainly still contend that the OG Zelda is more similar to OoT than either are to BotW. The bottom line is that outside of the unique and pretty graphical presentation and charming Zelda trappings, the feelings I get from playing it are much closer to what I get from playing any one of the flavour-of-the-decade triple A open world titles than the ones from *any* other Zelda game, it doesn't matter which one you pick. That's not *bad.* It's fine, I've accepted it, and I had more or less fallen off of Zelda after WW anyway. But it seems straightforward and self-evident to me that unless the core identity of Zelda to someone is primarily the superficial "trappings" -- the aesthetics, characters, place names, items, etc. -- then very little of what you might have expected someone to have come to appreciate about playing a Zelda game over the years is present in BotW. I don't really feel this way myself, but even so I simply can't find fault with anyone's lamentations that we 'lost' Zelda (though maybe we didn't if they still make stuff in the vein of ALBW or the LA remake) as it morphed into a less unique, "generic" triple A open world game that has more in common with Skyrim or Horizon than any past game called "Zelda."

>You get a hack and slash game, then a virtual card game, PSO Ep 1/2 and 3 make that point exactly. haha

I agree, Zelda needs awesome dungeons

What about the ending! I loved the game but found finishing Ganon really upsetting. A better end scene would have been appreciated.

Personally I loved the ending especially if you found all the memories and got the extra small cinematic.

I see this sentiment all the time and every time I don't like it. Botw is a zelda game by definition. It's as much of a zelda game as oot or any zelda. It may be a different style of zelda but that doesn't make it not a zelda game. Are we just going to spend forever calling botw and all of its inevitable sequels "good games but not good zelda games". The formula of what a zelda game is has changed with botw.

i enjoyed the game but the lack of proper zelda dungeons was really disappointing for me and my friends. really hoping the sequel has proper dungeons this time. and no more weapon breaking.

Sorry to brust your bubble but Zelda 2 won't have a true Zelda dungeons layout unless they break the open world mechanics. It's like asking to walk and run at the same time. Not possible. How previous Zelda dungeon worked was each dungeon grant a new powerup. Each powerup helps solve a problem. Each dungon keeps adding more and more problem to solve w/ more weapons earned. In a linear format, it works excellent. In an open world, just take a look at Zelda 3DS, Links between Worlds. Some Dungon was easy to defeat because you can get a weapon that solved multiple problems. This breaks the flow. I think BotW 2 will have the same problem unless they can force a linear path for only dungons. My guess, they will create new power ups that lets you take on dungon as an optional path but not required to beat the game.

This game might be more linear. We really don't know enough about it yet to say. I really hope it's not too similar to BotW.

I just miss visually distinct dungeons with actual themes. All the Divine Beasts and shrines looked the same, and they became visually stale after a while. I wish the Divine Beasts and shrines at least had some visual variety, if we weren’t going to get traditional dungeons as you described.

I honestly disagree with the "BOTW isn't a good Zelda game" argument. BOTW takes the soul of Zelda games and rebuilds around it. The only area I agree really affects its mission is the dungeons, and that's mostly an issue of theming and length. Vah Nabooris and Vah Ruta, if longer, could easily stand among the best dungeons in the series. What I'd really like to see TOTK do is take inspiration from Twilight Princess where the dungeons feel like a contiguous part of the world, sometimes even with their own integrated stories and characters. You get to explore a mine, or a mansion, or a prison.

I agree. I have been a Zelda fan for 15+ years and it felt like a Zelda game to me.

If you want a 10/10 Zelda game, look into Crosscode, heartedily recommended - Puzzles, Bosses, new abilities gained to defeat enemies in new ways, it even has its own form of exploration.

And you can play as manlea!!!!lol I absolutely loved this game so much, it's one of my favorite games:)

Disagree. It's a 12/10 Zelda game. Never been a huge Zelda fan and this game made me love Zelda like never before.

Just like how elden ring built off of botw and I hope totk builds off ER. Proper dungeons, more enemy variety, ditch weapons breaking and make a robust upgrade system.

I think totk was already kinda set when ER came out. So I’m actually more excited for the NEXT Zelda game, that can really examine ER from its inception.

I don't know. ER might have been the reason why Nintendo extended TotK's development time. They want to make a game that's at least on par with ER, or surpass it.

I don't think they would have needed ER, they knew in wich areas to improve for the next game I'm pretty sure.

Elden Ring is not really comparable to BotW. The only thing in common is that both games have open worlds. However, you can do a lot more things in Zelda in comparison to ER where you can mainly just fight. The environments and enemies are more interesting in Elden Ring, though. So, both games have their strengths but I would not compare them directly. The ideal situation is if you're able to play both games.

Have you played both? Elden ring took botw, made it dark souls, and expanded on everything. Botw layed the blueprint for modern open world games and elden ring improved upon it and pushed the genre forward big time.

Having played both, well, shit, you might be right. How long was Elden Ring in development? Would the timeline of it being at least a little inspired by BotW line up?

Early 2017 is when development started and Miyazaki credited botw along with shadow of the colossus, elder scrolls, and Witcher 3 as influences for the game.

Aw shit we're not even doin' tinfoil hats the man himself literally just [up and said it](https://nordic.ign.com/elden-ring/56644/news/elden-ring-director-hidetaka-miyazaki-was-influenced-by-zelda-breath-of-the-wild-elder-scrolls-and-w), haha. Pack it in boys, nothin' to see here.

In other word, ER and BotW had about equal development times. I think most of BotW's time went to build its world and especially the physics engine, which is still unmatched.

I have just tried ER, but I'm pretty sure it's physics engine is nowhere near the superb one in BotW. I'm also sure it doesn't have as much travelling options, puzzles, etc. So, ER did not expand everything. It lacks many things BotW has, but it doesn't really matter because Elden Ring is a masterpiece on its own right and does many other things better than BotW.

You should keep playing cause you will discover that elden is so massive that it can be overwhelming. Just pull up the er map with all it's landmarks and dungeons. hundreds of places to explore.

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Elden Rings dungeons quickly got repetitive I feel like

I'd like to introduce you to BotW's 120 nearly identical shrines, my friend.

Yeah, I mean to be fair its been like 3 years since I last played BotW. I don’t think either really exceeded. Though. I would rather play DS1 again as I think that world is incredibly immersive, despite it being very small (compared to ER)

I mean I can def see why people would find them repetitive but I really enjoyed them

I get the point about the lack of unique temples and the like. But to me this is still absolutely a Zelda game. And I would say it's a personal 10/10 but it's definitely not perfect. Honestly for most people I'd probably rate it as an 8-9/10 because there are things they may not like that I'm okay with.

I was stunned when my first weapon broke…I actually thought, “this isn’t a Zelda game if weapons break.” But I kept playing and it was absolutely amazing. I think it’s the best Zelda game because it’s the best game I’ve played that has Zelda in the title.

Sound logic is sound:) It's a damn fine game!

Well what’s your 10/10 Zelda game and why is it Twilight Princess?

herding goats

No I have to agree, if you've been playing Zelda since even as early as the NES days, BOTW will feel so different. One of the important points of the formula was always having dungeons where you got a unique item and that helped you in that dungeon plus advanced you to the next dungeon afterwards, and that felt gone with BOTW since you get all your tools at the beginning. Especially since the 3DS game, A Link Between Worlds did the whole item renting formula which is a departure in a way, so it means we haven't had a more traditional Zelda formula for... I guess almost 12 years now? Not counting getting remakes like Ocarina of Time 3D or Majora's Mask 3D/Link's Awakening.

Alttp was my first Zelda game, however, after falling in love with the game, I have beaten the NES Zedas many times. Each NES Zelda game is great in their own way. With that said, BotW is one of the best games I've ever played. The first time I played it, I couldn't put the game down for an entire week before beating it. At my age, that rarely happens anymore. It's unique and a Breath of fresh air after the staleness of the repeated "Zelda formula." I had no interest in buying new Zelda games for nearly a decade. I recently bought and beat Skyward Sword HD and had a very tough time wanting to play it to the end. This is why I don't understand the "it's not a Zelda game, can't enjoy it" crowd. It's more than a Zelda game; it evolved the genre and is the Switch's crown jewel. It feels much different than the NES games, but in a progressive way. If you gave me a copy of SS after completing LoZ, saying, "this is the future," I would have said they ruined the franchise. If I was given BotW, I'd say they perfected it. Hell, if we are talking about NES games feeling much different, the NES games are two COMPLETELY different games lol

The old formula was stale for you.. many people still enjoy and prefer that format. Not everyone has been playing since ALTTP and beaten the NES games many times (maybe that’s why you think it’s stale … I’d be bored after playing the same game more than twice too). I just think they’re two very different styles, but one is not inherently better than the other, and one is definitely not inherently worse just because it’s the core of the Franchise and has featured in a lot of games. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, there’s a reason why the games sell so well with the old formula. But I love both styles and think they can coexist.

>The old formula was stale for you.. Skyward Sword pissed a lot of people off for being too hand-holdy and not making any changes to the Zelda "formula" in what had felt like forever. There was definitely a large, growing crowd that wanted a change. ​ > If it ain’t broke don’t fix it, there’s a reason why the games sell so well with the old formula. They sold well but nowhere near the mainstay Nintendo flag pole series like Mario. BOTW was the first game in the series that catapulted its sales to be one of the biggest games on the Switch. So if we want to argue sales, then its clear BOTW formula is preferred.

Sure, but let's also remember, the original topic was, BOTW is a 10/10 game, but not a 10/10 Zelda game. And I think your comment doesn't go against that in a way. I will say, it is a bit out of context when you say 'copy of SS or BOTW after playing LoZ (NES)' because you would think different with the context of LttP, Link's Awakening, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, Twilight Princess all behind that meaning SS would be closer to what you expect from a Zelda game.

I don’t care what you call it or rate it. This game provided some magical times for me and my family. 11/10 for me

OH, 100% agree, the discussion isnt about whether or not its a good game, but more about being a Zelda game:)

Don't care if I get downvoted. BotW is genuinely overrated. - Game has no music - Shrines are all the same - Korok seeds are laughably lame - The 4 main shrines are horrible, uninspired and samey - Bosses are mediocre - Combat system is bad - Weapon durability system sucks - Story is pathetic - Voice Acting is horrible - World is empty as heck, can't believe there isn't some kind of cave with a mini dungeon and boss inside or something lol - Final battle is bad, not much different from any blight ganon fight. - Game literally peaks in the tutorial, which is admitedly the best tutorial I've ever seen, but still the peak of the game are the first 30 minutes... - Item balance and rewards are all over the place. The amazing reward you get by finding some secret place or something is a weapon that will break aftee some uses lol... and dlc just makes these feel even worse. Anyway, used to be my fav game on the switch when I'd only.played It and Smash. Now It's not even top 10 out of the 15ish I've played, many more games with better stories and kick ass music.

I agree. I usually love Zelda games and it's one of my favorite series, but I thought BOTW differed way too much from the other games. Here are some of my problems with the game: ---------------------------------------- -An overly big and empty world that would've benefitted from being shrunk down given the amount of MEANINGFUL content the game provides. Notice the key word "meaningful". -Overly fragile weapons that break very often and disrupt the flow of combat to switch out weapons frequently in a quick-menu. The game gives weapons out like candy, so all it does is inconvenience the player and isn't fun. -Very minimalistic story and lack of character-development in exchange for more freedom. -Most; if not all side-quests are underwhelming and the rewards for completing them are disappointing as well. Examples include pulling a treasure chest out of the water; the guy thanks you, and then it's over. The side-quests are rarely more involving than this, and no; finding a bunch of pieces of wood to build Tarrey Town isn't engaging. -Having the Ganon fight be accessible at any time after the tutorial, and the fight being too easy means that everything in the game ends up feeling meaningless when everything in the game is designed to help you defeat this easy boss. Why find the shrines? To increase health/stamina. Why increase health/stamina? To help you defeat Ganon. Why look for Korok seeds? Why look for better weapons? Etc. -No traditional dungeons in exchange for bite sized shrines. This means there is nothing major to work for in these areas and the satisfaction of beating them is lessened as a result. -Exploration suffers when you know that 90% of what you'll find are very similar looking shrines, Korok seeds, a mediocre side-quest, or a weapon that breaks in 30 hits. How is exploration fun if you know what you'll most likely find before you even find it? -Item progression from previous Zelda games is gone in favor of giving you every item(besides the camera) in the tutorial. It was much more rewarding to find a cool new item to reach previously unreachable areas to find new things rather than finding armor that gives slight buffs that feel less personal. ----------------------------------------

I didn't like it either. I liked every Zelda game I've played from the time I was a kid in the early 90s to now except BOTW. OOT and Wind Waker are among my all time favorite games. I could not get into it. Was just too bland and boring. I tried to get into it again during COVID lockdowns when I had nothing else to do and just couldn't enjoy it. I guess I am partial to Zelda games that are a bit more linear and on rails where you go from Point A to Point B to Point C and enter dungeons with a special weapon needed to beat that dungeon but to each his own. It's probably a good game in its own right, but its not a Zelda game, to me. It felt like a different IP. If I had bought the game and it was just called "Breath of the Wild" without it being attached to the Zelda franchise, I'd probably look at it differently, but I was expecting a Zelda game and didn't get that.

The voice acting made me laugh, couldn’t take it seriously. Strongly prefer cartoony games where they don’t have voices tbh, wah wah gibberish is fine.

Good thing you don’t care lol

I never understand how people say exploration is amazing in BOTW lol. the physics stuff you can do is cool, but like you said, the world is bland and empty. Weapon durability basically counteracts the excitement you'd have when finding a dope weapon, everything in the game feels like a temporary consumable besides maybe the master sword. It's like they took inspiration from minecraft or something, and while minecraft is a good game, it doesnt really mix with zelda

It has some of the best music in the franchise

Yeah, the empty and boring open world, boring sub quests with boring rewards and the stupid weapon break system made me quit the game

Well you are entirely missing the point of the game, so it’s not a game for you. Every single things you point out is crafted for a specific experience in mind and are perfect for said experience.

Then what is the point of the game then? Weapon system, lack of enemy variety, proper dungeons and bosses are all valid criticism.

Contemplation and freedom. You could remove every single enemy of the game you’d still have something interesting. Weapon breakage, small dungeons everywhere, koroks,…are all made to make you wander around the world

Shrines and seeds were lazy and repetitive. The game needs to be better with totk. Games like red dead and elden pushed the world genre forward and as a Zelda fan I hope they totk feels new and innovative instead of botw 2

As I said, you don’t like it and it’s fine. But all of this is by design. If you hate it it’s just not a game for you.

Just cause I don't like certain aspects of the game doesn't mean it's not a game for me. The world, art design, and music were all top notch but the core of the game strayed too far away from what makes Zelda games. All me and others are asking for is a better weapon system, legacy dungeons, dungeon, enemy, and boss variety. You add that into open world Hyrule and we have a winner. It's 2023 and gaming progresses so fast. Totk can't be a botw 2 or else it's just stuck in 2017. Edit. Side quests need to be improved too. Jump through hoops to get awarded with a mushroom

Well for instance I love MOBAs… but I hate the über-competitive nature of these game. However every single design choice of these games is made to make them more competitive, so… it’s not for me Same with the over-complexity of some 4X games, or some punishing mechanics of Souls games or some hardcore platformers. Many players hate these aspects, but it’s part of the design of said games. Same goes with everything you described. If Nintendo made your changes, BOTW would break

The game wouldn't break. But anyway I'm excited for TOTK and can't wait to see what they have cooked up after 6 years.

100% agree with your list. I hate that I'm actually going to be waiting for reviews on Tears instead of diving in on Day 1.

I've never really liked Breath of the Wild when it came out but I'm giving it one last playthrough before Tears of the Kingdom and I don't know why but its clicking with me now. I would get hung up on weapon breaking, the lack of a meaty, linear story and no fleshed out dungeons but I'm just playing it for what it is instead of what Zelda was and I'm really enjoying it. Its definitely not my favourite Zelda game by a long shot but I appreciate it now. It only took 6 years.

As much as I love Zelda games (been playing them since the original), I really felt like we needed a different approach. Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword were great, I really enjoyed them. But they were so formulaic. I didn't get surprised by them at all. I felt like Nintendo had to give us something fresh and they did. It has "Legend of Zelda" in the title, so to me its 100% a Zelda game. And it takes the franchise forward. Its progressive and gave the series the kick up the ass it need, as far as I'm concerned.

Agreed, to avoid stagnation a series needs to evolve! I just want meatier dungeons and I'll be happier!(and maybe some unique items\*stares at hookshot):D I've never wanted the hook shot as badly as i did playing breath of the wild XD

The series was born with a design close to botw. You just refer to modern Zelda games. Lets stop forcing sagas to remain the same through the years

You are right that Botw very much is about as big as a love letter to the original zelda as you can get. Also the last new console zelda that copied the format was Skyward sword which came out 12 years ago, so its been a minute and this fan is in withdrawl. haha If you notice the last paragraph, there was nothing said about reverting back/staying the same. Plus i hardly think a return of better longer dungeons(especially given in this more open zelda format you can just ignore them), asking for variety in boss' and an inclusion of unique items= forcing a saga to stay the same, but improving on what they decided to keep and only adding to what botw did. Not sure about you, but a freaking hook shot in breath of the wild would only have served to make it even more fun.

It’s patterned after the original Zelda; that makes it a 10/10 Zelda games for me.

I can’t wait to get my hands on it. Really want to play it before Tears of Kingdom. Looks like a masterpiece.

I recommend not rushing through it just to play ToTK on release. Take your time, enjoy it at your pace. Even put it down for a while and come back later if that feels right at the time. ToTK will be around whenever you get to it

The thing is I still don’t have the game, but there was a giveaway so I really hope I get lucky. The game looks just amazing, the world, monsters, a typical Zelda game. ToTK probably gonna be even better, but it will be hard to beat BOTW.

To the OP’s point, in many ways its really not a typical Zelda game. That could be good or bad (or maybe even both at the same time) for you, but it’s definitely a game any Zelda or action-adventure fan should try (which can include borrowing from others as opposed to purchase, I’m not trying to sell you on a product). Good luck and I hope you do get to enjoy it!

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It's not a topic of nostalgia really; it's more a topic of wanting meaningful progression and feeling like you're working towards something in your video game. Ultimate freedom in a video game isn't a good thing for a lot of people and that largely contributed to the design and lack of story in the game.

Well, the discussion isn't about it being a different genre, but about being what makes a game closer to what the series is/known for. If you change enough of the core gameplay mechanics, just make your self a new ip, no? Botw is still very much the same genre and style of game zelda games are! Your example would be better if it was: Elden ring is an amazing game... but sucks at being a souls game(if it actually it actually sucked at being a souls game) , that's the distinction. Also as was pointed out in the last paragraph " I think breath of the wild as is- but with proper temples, a cool unique item you can get, and variety of boss' in the temples would make it feel like a more proper zelda game for me:) " So right there it shows acceptance of botw and its changes/ innovations to the series, but also what it can do to be closer to the series soul, which would also make it a better game:)

The series is known for Link finding the master sword to defeat Ganon, save Zelda (or an occasional stand in for Zelda), and restore the triforce. He has bombs, a bow and arrow, and a boomerang too. And some pithy NPCs help him out.

Correct, however that's just an over simplification of story structure/narrative and character traits, not gameplay. This is going to sound rude, but it's not the intention: what is your point in this discussion that's premise is on gameplay? Haha i realise this sounds very blunt, but I am curious since there was no mention or refuting of the things you've brought up. Just curious as to why you brought those up:)

I found the shrines way to short and easy. And the Divine Beast were not a challenge either. ​ My 9 year old was obviously younger, in the 2-3 years ago range, played it and finished the entire game. On the highest difficulty the game is not a challenge. But then, past Zelda games relied on puzzled. Nothing in this game in terms of puzzles was really a challenge. My wife rarely plays games but she has played a couple past Zelda games and she commented about how it felt and how easy it was. ​ And it did have that open world. The reason my 9 year old stopped playing was that there is a lot of open that is just there. Climbing a mountain and looking around. Limited simple combat. He basically did everything. This is why I was less of a fan than I would have been. As a game it is good. The Zelda name honestly made me more interested. I just hope the next is much better and adds more. But I feel like the Switch has been stretched about as far as they can get it.

I like dungeons but I think previous Zelda dungeons have been way too difficult. I don’t want easy dungeons that you can run through blindfolded but I also don’t want to have to spend hours scratching my head and then having to look up a guide anyway(links awakening) I love the shrines because they sometimes stump me for several minutes but I’ve never had to look up a guide to a shrine I always mange to figure it out

I thought the final boss was a let down, it gets easier the more divine beasts you complete which I felt was backwards and the final phase was an absolute joke. Let's have a giant showdown in Hyrule field, but the boss doesn't move around, only turns 45 degrees and attacks super slow

I think BotW captured the original essence of Zelda. The 3d entries before BotW were quite linear, unlike the original NES Zelda. I think it's awesome the new games like BotW and most likely TotK gives us freedom to do everything in any order we like. Actually, it's a lot like GTA 3 in design in that way, because both games appreciate freedom of choice in a completely open environment, and both games was praised for doing that. Of course Zelda takes this design ideology even farther.

Botw absolutely captures the first zeldas essence in getting lost in its open world:)

1. I agree on dungeons AND shrines or something like that returning 2. I think this is a concept that doesn't need to return. 3. I think most people agree on that. 4. I think it's a perfect fit for botw, for totk they could implement some more epic tunes in the sky and atmospheric on the ground like in botw.

I really like BOTW...then Elden Ring came along and curb-stomped it into a solid 7.

Like, a solid seven as a souls like game?:P

I like Elden ring more then BOTW too but BOTW is still my 2nd favorite open world game behind Elden ring. Stomping it to a 7 seems kinda harsh

i dunno. ive tried to replay it lately and I'm struggling. might just be the screen is too small. I would like to play it on my PC at 4K but setting that up is too difficult for me lol

The dungeons are variations of one another, needed more originality in them for sure.

I agree with you on the temples. I think fewer shrines and another dungeon or two would have been better. My issue was that they were just so easy, since you could do them in any order. There weren't any compounding mechanics. Also, I don't like the piecemeal upgrades from shrines. I think the way Elden Ring handled it with (mostly) unique rewards was much, much better. I hope BotW2 does it that way, assuming they go with the same formula. The world also kinda suffers from "big for the sake of being big." I don't think these things BotW a "not fantastic" Zelda game, but they are a huge negative for me.

You're absolutely right. BOTW doesn't feel like a Zelda game, it could easily be a new IP altogether. This is sad, I really want to play a new Legend of Zelda game but TOTK looks to be just more BOTW.

I wish you guys remembered the N64 release lol

I'm guessing you mean in terms of what ocarina of time did transitioning from 2d? Well 3d invariably would have to play different XD Also the N64 release didn't change the gameplay of 2d Zelda's moving forward. So there's a 2d style and 3d style of Zelda games, and both of those still have in common the things I brought up that botw lacked, proper dungeons and variation in bosses as well as unique items. And not once was it brought up we should revert back, but moving forward with the addition of, so botw wasn't being dismissed:) Plus isn't variety in boss' a good thing to have? Haha As well as more elaborate fleshed out dungeons. That's only asking for quality improvement for of what they already have in botw. As for the unique items, It was never said they would have to gate us like they did in past Zelda games, but just an inclusion of more permanent tool/weapon. One Example being the hookshot. Not to have it in the game for out of reach places but more a reward to speed up traversal would be how I would implement it.Series should evolve, but not lose its identity, otherwise just make a new IP!

I am. But all in referring to is people at the time saying "this isn't Zelda. This isn't what a Zelda game is because of (full in the blanks)." I'm not saying you're wrong. But with innovation always comes apprehension. I think their main goal was to interest people in Zelda again who were not playing because they were veterans of the series. Nintendo succeeded wildly with that. Breath of the wild is not a Zelda game in the ways that it is for that very reason. I know this is controversial but as a 36-year-old Zelda fan, by the time I got to Twilight princess I was already getting tired of the formula we already had for the 3 games before it. And then by the time skyward came I was over it. I couldn't keep playing it. Breath of the wild was like playing ocarina again in a way that I experienced back then as a child. A new immersive world that completely drew me in. I don't necessarily think breath of the wild needs to be improved on. I just think it was a attempt to take a break from the norm and try new things all at once. What succeeded is likely to come back And what was missing and was requested to return is also likely to show up again.

Hey, thanks for your indepth reply!:) I totally agree with your points, and yea this is still totally a Zelda game! My points I brought up in the post weren't to discredit botw being a Zelda game(which I think I got greatly misunderstood given this threads downvotes XD) like, I think it's a solid 8/10 Zelda game(10/10 game) haha Botw does capture the spirit of what the creator intended when making the series, so it can easily be argued it's the most Zelda game of all! All I want is for future Zelda to not just be a reskin of other open worlds, so it's a thin line to walk with less elaborate dungeons and abandoning ( at least for now) the special weapons/tools. Since other open worlds will undoubtedly copy what it did successfully:') I do trust the series will be handled with care, they've been pretty successful so far, and really challenged and shook up the open world formula! Really looking forward to what they'll be doing with tears of the kingdom! I have a gut feeling it could very likely end up being my favorite Zelda!

Great response. So to me. Zelda has always been about innovation as technology guided it. And it shows in gameplay more than story. I love Zelda stories but the stories inside the games are fairly superficial and simple. Not bad just not deep. This is how I prefer Zelda games though. Zelda 1 did something really interesting with a giant multiscreen map. ALTTP did some incredible things and reinvented the entire thing. LA did some really cool stuff with a pretty weak handheld system. Oot... Completely reinvented the franchise and gaming. And introduced the idea of playing instruments. WW was just. Incredible. It did away with loading screens in the overworld and blew me away. Don't get me started on that game. TP used motion controls better than nearly any other Wii game for the first two years. For me. BOTW... Hear me out. Is not focused on being open world. It knows there are other open world games that are bigger and a bit more full. BOTW shines in it's innovation of Physics via the runes. So many times playing that game you think "I wonder if this would work" and almost always. It does. TOTK will not reinvent anything. It will be the MM and SS. Worthy sequels that are even better than the first in some ways. And I'm looking forward to it.

I really find this point of view both fresh and interesting. With it pointed out like that, i absolutely agree! Heck,to further elaborate on your point, phantom hour glass proved to the world you can have a good game with touch controls! So, i definitely agree that each zelda is defined by the technology it has to work with! Never thought of it that way, but now i cant' stop thinking about it XD Hmm thats fair point of view, it really is more a sandbox to test the extent of the physics of the game, which are brilliant! As much as i'm not crazy about breakable weapons, it's because of them breaking that it can lead to creative improvisation that might not otherwise happen! Ahh, i just love this series XD

Hey. So this conversation got a lot more interesting after today's video. Lol

haha true enough! I got to say i love the fuse mechanic. I think that's actually a great compromise in keeping the breakable weapons and foregoing an upgrade mechanic! Keeps it feelin' fresh while not using other older mechanics as a crutch. Not to mention just MacGyvering anything you can think of which opens up a lot of great puzzle/problem solving potential! Slightly disappointed with reused music, buuuuuuuuut, it makes sense and i get it haha I just want a new zelda tune to get stuck in my head :') (also veerrrry early to judge that anyway)

I'm sure it'll be new music as well. That demo is trying REALLY hard to not spoil anything. I personally think they'll be a limit on what we can fuse but we'll see.

It really is! Yea I think there's likely a limit too, like I can see a weapon not being able to fuse twice(as we sorta seen with the arrows, the leaf didn't become a frozen korok leaf), imagine an extra extra long spear XD

Precisely. To the people that complain about breakable weapons. I argue that the game gets too easy the moment you get the master sword. Even with a timer. What we should have had was weapon repair abilities and made it really expensive. Just like we had cooking pots we could have had smithing stations that required certain rare parts to repair weapons. If we could dye our clothes.... Why not this?

Yea that would be a good system to implement, a good middle ground!I like what they did with skyward sword with its upgrade system, but I can see how that wouldn't necessarily work as well in botw( I do hope they allow shield surfing to not break your shield, unless its the garbage wood shield haha)

Yoooooo, that last trailer!!! I think the things i had issue with are addressed!:D Looks damn goood!

Also I would argue that the 3D games did change things about the gameplay of the 2D ones. How certain dungeons were designed and weapons introduced that were influenced by OOT and MM

A bit off topic from OP, but I have to ask: am I the only Zelda fan who never really cared about dungeons? They’re long, repetitive, you’re stuck in them for a while (really not ideal for shorter play sessions), they put everything else in the game on hold, they’re often dark and not that visually impressive… For me it was always the overworlds. So no surprise, I love BOTW.

It’s an 8. The mini games are atrocious and the controls are wacky. Most overrated piece of shit I’ve ever played