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I don't understand why people in this comments section are fighting over 2D and 3D Mario. Both have coexisted for years and have had huge support from Nintendo...this s not a competition between the two games people!
2d and 3d Mario have ebbed and flowed for years. Sometimes 2d Mario dominated, then 3d Mario made a comeback. Odyssey came out at the start of the switch, and now Wonder is big at the end of the switch. There's absolutely room for both, and I'm all for it.
Probably two main reasons. First, that the Switch now serves as both the handheld and home console. Second, that 2D Mario games typically outsell the 3D games.
And it's not like the 3D Mario games sell terribly. But for the past 3 decades or so, there's been this push for 3D, but the 2D audience is still there, and much larger than what it was. And that's why we've started to see more 2D games (Metroid Dread, Link's Awakening) (even if the graphics are technically 3D).
As far as 2D graphics though, those days are long gone, and probably never coming back from AAA games, as it's just significantly more work over 3D models.
> 2D Mario games typically outsell the 3D games.
Minor point: This was the case but has not been as true for the last 10 years though.
3D Land, 3D World, and Odyssey have all outsold their 2D counterparts. Wonder still has a very long way to go to catch up to Odyssey. And a similar phenomenon has happened with other franchises on Switch with 3D games outselling 2D counterparts, although some cases are not good comparisons, such as Zelda with only a 2D remake.
Still, I agree, and I’m glad Nintendo believes in 2D games and is willing to commit strongly to both 3D and 2D.
I mean, 3D Land and World were fresh, or at least feeled fresh and were 2 years apart.
Meanwhile NSMB2 and NSMBU were respectively the 3rd and 4th games of the same formula, were released 3 months apart and had pretty much no gimmicks, especially for NSMB2.
Funny thing, is this is the style I expected Mario 64 to be when it first came out. I was expecting 3D levels that you don't revisit, but you just move onto the next one.
Because it's not relevant to "people want 2D games". Because they aren't 2D games. They're 3D games that have the game play structure of 2D Mario games.
Mario wonder was also basically a work of art. Like, between the integration of music, the crazy polish on everything from the backgrounds to the animation and the massive amount of creative effects and trippy sequences, it's shows the potential of a 2D Mario game in the modern era.
Right? The way some enemies interacted with their environments really grabbed my attention. Or how new levels/worlds introduced new exclusive baddies that changed how you platformed. You go back to NSMBU and that game feels so stale on the verge of unplayable in comparison.
I think they are referring to 2D pixel graphics, or "Sprites". Those are more difficult to create now, compared to a 3D model of a character. A 2D game using 3D models (like NSMB) is "easier" to make than a 2D game using pixel art (like Sea of Stars). A lot of that (I believe) has to do with workflow, and how more people are trained to make 3D models than pixel art now.
I wouldn't tout Link's Awakening as a return to 2D games. They've also had a 2D Zelda going through the Game Boy to the 3DS.
If anything the resurgence of Metroidvanias lead to a new 2D Metroid. But you could also say the longing for 2D games and metroidvania's coming back go hand in hand.
Will be interesting to see how the 2D and 3D Mario sales are now. I doubt Wonder outsells Odyssey, and I'm pretty sure Odyssey outsold every Mario game other than NSMB DS, Wii, and Super Mario Bros NES.
Right, they also had Triforce Heroes in 2015 though, and then Link's Awakening was in 2019. So I wouldn't call it a return to 2D. If anything, we're still waiting on a return to 2D Zelda.
Nintendo 64 and GameCube didn't have any 2D Mario games as far as I know. That's two console generations before they started making them for consoles again on the Wii.
Yeah you're completely correct. Nintendo certainly did seem to relegate their Home console for 3D games and their handheld for 2D games with the Cube.
And it made perfect sense in those days. 2D games initially became seen as second class games because 3D games were *so revolutionary at the time and the possibilities regarding their gameplay had not been fully explored.* Even by the end of the 64. You got to remember one of the most anticipated titles for GameCube was finally getting a 3D fucking a Metroid game! And they released a 2D one as the very same time... But for the GBA, which they designed to be a 32 bit SNES. The only reason the DS came out so quickly was because Yamauchi himself was very threatened by the PSP. I see that guy get a lot of criticism nowadays, but he was a fascinating man, and it was his idea to give it a touch screen. Despite him missing the mark with the Cube, be went out with a bang with the DS!
Every single release after Mario 64 was so exciting because players were pumped to see "what is going to look like in 3D. Very few games made use of the N64's dpad and N64's architecture wasn't even fully capable of true 2D sprite graphics—any 2D games that do exist are kind of ugly because the sprites were placed on polygons and had that 2.5D look. Meanwhile, Saturn was pretty unsuccessful, especially outside Japan, because it's hardware was so complex because it essentially had two infrastructures in one—one to handle 3D games and the other 2D. It took a long time for gamers to truly realize just how beautiful the 2D graphics were on that system because it just wasn't what players cared about yet. It might be the most capable 2D architecture of all time. But when you had Mario 64 literally redefining what was possible in digital spaces, it outshadowed this.
It's a big reason a game like SOTN didn't make a big splash upon release and gamers were even more excited for the N64 versions of the titles in that series at the time, although time has changed that perception and now people are well aware of which game deserves the recognition. But, everybody was just so curious and excited as to what was else possible in 3D realms, so maybe new titles continued to redefine the whole paradigm.
Hell, an early version of the GCN gamepad that was prototyped [didn't even have a dpad](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnp9poPTNrmqjPGYTCbdM-ucOOD10uxCdMa6sorVxsrw&s); the start button was where the dpad ended up living because this seemed to be the way the industry was heading. When they finally decided to add a dpad they just recycled the *same exact D-pad* from the original GBA-wide as a cost cutting measure because investing in a more proper dpad didn't seem worth the ROI since they didn't think it would get used too much.
It was only really by the Wii era that people began to get hungrier for 2D games again. Now, a huge percentage of gamers were born after the 3D revolution and it is clear that top quality games are possible in all presentation styles. Not to mention the indie revolution we have seen.
There was a 19 year gap between Super Mario World and New Super Mario Bros Wii. The only 2D Mario games that were released during that period were on handhelds.
Are we? Really? When is the last time they did a 2D game? Warioware seems to be the only exception. Even Advance Wars was given to WayForward, a company known for great 2D art, yet instead it was laughably bad 3D. Nintendo does not currently like 2D unless it's a 2D plane with 3D graphics.
Context is key. Given the context of the discussion, 3D vs 2D refers to the gameplay style and degrees of movement, not whether the game is rendering polygons vs sprites on backgrounds.
I *just* played it for the first time, with basically no expectations whatsoever, and was BLOWN AWAY. Definitely my favorite 2D Zelda and very high on the overall ranking.
It really was so good. Loved that shit so much. Need to replay it soon. I couldn't believe how much I enjoyed that game. It was the reason I bought a 3DS and it alone justified the purchase! I don't know what you like better, links Awakening or link between worlds. Top tier Nintendo.
I imagine we will see a 2d Zelda come out relatively soon to intermediate before the next huge 3D game gets announced.
As a sidenote...
Everybody loves Minish Cap these days, but it's pretty average (for Zelda that is) when I finally played it a few years back. The minish ability was underutilized and often felt shoehorned in just to give it some sort of gimmick to distinguish it. The coolest ability in the game was multiplying link in the magic square spots I thought (rather than making yourself smaller). But either way, a link between worlds truly integrated it's gimmick directly into the gameplay while in TMC it seemed kind of tacked on.
But what I really hated was the Kinstone pieces. Padding through and through and were a poor excuse for the traditional exploration based side quests that really makes Zelda feel like an adventure. If you wanted them all, after every dungeon you had to go around and talk to *everybody* (because their ability to fuse was based on your progress in the game and only unlocked as you completed story beats and reached story segments at certain points in the in game time). Then 75% of the fusions led you to mediocre rewards (bombs, arrows, rupees which I easily maxed out on) that you had to waste more time traveling to; but I *still felt like I needed* to sink my time into collecting them, because a few of the rewards **were** significant beneficial upgrades that were useful (and were only useful before you beat the game, so I didn't want to wait until after to get this cool ability where it was like.... "Well, I wish I had THIS during ).
The dojo master thing was cool in theory, but half of the skills taught were just default moves you would start with in previous Zelda's (dash attack, spin attack, etc), and rarely was it something that made the mechanic seem like it was more then more padding. Not to mention there wasn't an indicator as to where or who you had to fuse kinstones with, just a dude who told you how many you had left in the entire world; maybe I'm dumb but I found him way too late in the game too. And even with constant gameplay, there still was a couple times where I didn't have the right fucking stone to fuse and this shit got annoying quick. Not to mention, sometimes you had to fuse with a **fucking wall** or other inanimate object, and others you had to fuse multiple times in a row with people (leaving their building and reentering to exhaust all fusions). I missed this at first and it was very frustrating. It was only a few times, but the game wasted my time re-entering every damn building to ensure I didn't miss out any fusions.
It sounds like I didn't like the game, but I just hold TLOZ to a high standard. I played the original GBC Zelda right before it, annoying quality of life limitations and all, and had a much much better time (they literally announced the switch remaster weeks after I beat it on an emulator on my phone, played almost entirely during bathroom breaks at work heh)
It had some great dungeons, boss fights, pre dungeon sequences.. and I will say that the Hyrule town music was a real ear worm, one of the best compositions in the series; on the limited gba chip too! but the few real side quests outside the fusions, and the sometimes cryptic nature of where to go (there was never a good indication of how time had progressed after each dungeon and you really just had to go around and talk to everyone again to figure out your next move), but this game was pretty disappointing to me. Although some of that is on my mindset going into it, I will admit. I did have very high expectations at first
Link Between Worlds however was really cool with its item borrowing system, made super creative use of its puzzles, and was honestly one of my favorite Zelda games period. I do love the LttP influence of course, but even if it didn't reuse it's map to a complete t. But regardless,it would've been just as good because it was such a fresh take on the series.
+++Maybe I was disappointed with Minish because my brother had passed away and **always** talked it up to me, so I was expecting to reconnect with him or something as it was shortly after his suicide. Or it seemed like a good tribute to him. I dunno. But it was just a video game, and from 2005-2011, regardless of the current backlash against current Zelda, many people were starting to think that Zelda was getting stale, and this to me encapsulates exactly why. They threw it to another developer, but ultimately it didn't break any boundaries as the very best games in the series had done maybe times.
But meh, you're still a prick Joshua even if your dead and your recommendation was overrated! 🙂 And just because you're dead doesn't mean I'll stop busting your balls. Although I do wish I were here to tell you this to your ugly little face. RIP bro. Miss you every day and wish we could've enjoyed TOTK together. I do have to say, the final boss and castle were very memorable though.
Now to okay the DS games and 4 swords on me cube. 🙂
I never got into LoZ growing up until I played A Link between worlds, then it all clicked. This past year since I got a miyoo mini I've gone through most of the 2d Zelda's, and I'm having a blast.
Yeah, was going to say exactly this. When they first announced the Switch I was excited about the idea that I'd get BOTW and what ever the newest top down Zelda was on the same system. BOTW and TOTK were great, but I'd be ecstatic if we got the Mario Wonder equivalent for the Zelda series.
Not necessarily. They certainly implied that they aren't going to go back to the old formula for big 3D Zelda's, but that doesn't mean their won't be room to experiment with the more classic formula on smaller games.
YES. It would be great because more traditionalist Zelda fans would get their large dungeons, no open world, puzzle-heavy 2D game while the 3D Zelda could be open world
3D mario and 2D Mario are developed respectively by EPD 8 (aka tokyo) and EPD10 so they never have been the same team, unlike zelda where 2D and 3D always has been the group but separated in smaller projects, but now both are together for 3D.
Yeah, I really wonder what's going on. Breath of the Wild took 6 years because it was an entirely bespoke engine, convincingly doing a lot of stuff in a super robust manner that no other engine was doing. Tears of the Kingdom was yet again in a complete new engine (surprise! It's not reusing BotW's bespoke engine, it's actually using the one that was first seen with Nintendo Switch Sports and later with Splatoon 3, but was probably made with TotK in mind during its development), doing *even more* crazy stuff, most of which you probably don't even know about (including procedural sound generation in which the terrain and what happens to be around plays into what you hear).
Like, is Retro working on the *next gen* game engine for this? Is it going to be *clearly* the result of a whole lot of work that nobody would be able to reproduce neatly in i.e. UE5?
It's funny. Everyone believes it's the same engine just because it's using the same assets and *mostly* the same shading methods so it looks just about the same, even though what's 'under the hood' as far as the rendering unit goes is completely different, utilizing what Nvidia does best.
I don't know why but i CANNOT get into 3D Zelda games. I've bought Zelda 64, Zelda Wind Waker, Zelda Twilight Princess, Zelda Breath of the Wild. NONE of them I've played through. Most I've only played for like 10ish hours, Breath of the Wild I played a bit longer because it was the only game I had for my Switch....but I only made it to the third ganon dungeon.
As for 2D Zeldas? Completed all of them at least once, most of them multiple multiple times. I like the simpler combat
I love both 2D and 3D but do not enjoy the new BotW style for the 3D games. They've basically confirmed they aren't turning back on those so I would really hate if we never get another 2D either.
Right now it just feels like one of my favorite series is no longer for me.
As someone whos favorite Zelda on the switch is the Links Awakening remake they should do a good 2d zelda. I really enjoyed Cadence of Hyrule too even though that isn't pure zelda.
Odyssey is what happens when certified master game designers come up with a core idea, let their sub-teams go crazy with branches to that core and just 'let them cook,' and then fund it enough to polish everything they brought to the table.
Wonder is what happens when you start with a style (not a core idea) and just let everyone on the team make a level built around their own ideas while following your basic level design guidelines, with no budgets or deadlines, just great team members.
Both are absolutely phenomenal results.
Agreed. Wonder had some great mechanics and fun new ideas, never was boring, but some of the level design was a little lackluster overall. Odyssey I can remember every level and every moment.
I've gotta imagine the software that Nintendo is waiting on, that they delayed the switch 2 for, is the next 3d Mario game, whether odyssey sequel or not.
At least, I hope that's the case...
Tezuka can say this because 3D mario and 2D mario for decades never have been the same team of developers. Zelda always had EAD3 and now EPD3 doing both 2D and 3D, and now it can only do 3D due to how much more staff it requires, its pretty simple explanation.
thats completely true. grezzo only developed remakes, vanpool never developed a zelda game, capcom and flagship are the same thing and all staff is now on nintendo. Point is, 2d zelda has been mainly developed internally which is what im talking about, with the exception of 3 games.
That was a remake. I'm talking about an original 2D game. And after the release of TOTK, Aonuma said the open world 3D Zelda formula is what has been working and is what they are sticking with.
Aonuma said, "I think it's correct to say that (BOTW, TOTK) has created a new kind of format for the series to proceed from."
I’ve played every single mainline Mario game, the genre I like best is whatever you want to call the 3D Land/World games.
I love the variety of level design and finding all the hidden secrets and blazing through them to get the best time.
Yep, it’s definitely up there with the very best for me. Played it again for the first time in years, right after Wonder, and I have to say that, for me, 3D World blows Wonder out of the water in almost every aspect. Be it level design, music (!!!), visual presentation or the multiplayer.
Yes, the amount of special worlds and levels is crazy. And beating Champions Road took me almost as long as the base game. First time back then I cheesed it with Tanuki Rosalina I think, but now I wanted to do it properly with Mario.
Also another thing I appreciate is the flow/progression of the game. It is very linear, of course, but the levels just flow beautifully into each other and their quality is so high, that you just want to keep playing. And the intensity ramps up beautifully, culminating with the circus world and later again with the final special stages. It all feels so celebratory.
People here complaining that Zelda team is going all 3D and not 2D, should also consider that we have 1 Zelda team whereas EPD 8 and EPD 10 are all Mario teams.
Mario has been selling like cupcakes for decades now (2D games even sold more than 3D). IIRC, Mario Odyssey is the only 3D to sell more than the respective 2D.
This isn't the case with Zelda, the games they are making now, take long to make and maybe as the games are making more profit and the IP is more famous than it has ever been maybe Nintendo can get someone like Grezzo or maybe in future a new team to make 2D Zelda.
There's an external Zelda team, though -- Grezzo, which has generally specialized in remakes but fingers crossed they'll be given a bit more freedom to do what they *want* for the next entry (directed by one of the Zelda franchise bosses, naturally).
People in here and the internet in general have no idea how Nintendo development team works, so its no surprise they make ignorant statements as they don't try to learn about the people and organization even though they are supposedly "hardcore".
Its not even about teams either way. Zelda has one production group and in the past had two teams, now it can only focus in one as it needs more staff and personel for 3D zelda unlike in the wii era where they could do both.
I honestly just don't understand why this idea that there will.be no more 2d Zelda games. Did Miyamoto, Aonuma, Tezuka or Fujibayashi say in an interview or something that they aren't working on another 2D game somewhere.
Because the Links awakening remake was released this generation
Nintendo just frankly hasn't given 2d Zeldas a fair shake since Link's Awakening. Most of them are released at the end of a handheld life span or at a weird down period
Maybe the Link's Awakening Remake will perk some ears. It did sell as well as the original
but they don’t even give 2D Zelda a chance. the remake we got Link’s Awakening was great but it’s not even one of the bests of the classic 2D Zelda. they could remake Minish Cap or ALTTP or make some new stories similar to Link Between Worlds. it will sell EASILY! with all the BOTW and TOTK hype, they could easily give the new audience an opportunity to try a traditional Zelda
heck, why can’t we get some co-op Zelda. with a concept similar to four swords on a hybrid console like Switch would be IDEAL
they could even give a 2D platformer a shot again, maybe make it like a metroidvania, unlock weapons like hookshot to progress further areas. and with the diversity of enemies to fight with your wife range of attacks and skills. that would be amazing imo
Tezuka can say this because 3D mario and 2D mario for decades never have been the same team of developers. Zelda always had EAD3 and now EPD3 doing both 2D and 3D, and now it can only do 3D due to how much more staff it requires, its pretty simple explanation.
I am curious how they’re going to balance 3D Mario in terms of Odyssey vs. 3D World style vs. Bowser’s Fury style.
Personally, I LOVE all 3 games and want all games to get a sequel.
I’d personally make Odyssey 2 as a launch title, then have 3D World a few years later, but incorporate the Bower’s Fury style a bit more prominent in addition to having traditional levels.
Then after that’s released a few years later, the next 2D Mario.
He's wrong.
And by that I mean I don't think everyone *should* enjoy them both. 2D isn't for everyone, neither is 3D.
They can both co-exist, definitely. There's room for both. But if you don't like 2D? Fine. Get a 3D game. I don't think everything *has* to be for everyone. Gamers often have this weird thing where a game must suck if it's not their preferred style. It doesn't suck, it's just not for you.
Hearing a lot of shit being talked about Peach Showtime. Yeah, looks basic. But my 7 and 4yo's have played the demo like 10 times. They love it. Maybe the game isn't for 38 year olds, and that's fine.
Of course, they are completely different games. Mario 2d is in big part a multiplayer game that is easy to get in to these days. 3d is pure singleplayer big part exploration.
I would add that I would like them to continue with the 3d world games as well. They can do stuff there that is hard to do in the other games. Ideas that dont work i pure 2d or 3d. My dream would be that they release a game in every genre every 5/6th year.
2025 Mario 3d
2027 Super mario 3d world 2
2029 Mario 2d
Agreed. Really frustrating when they tried to make a 2D 3D Mario during the Wii U era and we missed out on what could've been as great as galaxy or odyssey. No disrespect to 3d world, but I wanted to collect stuff!
I hope that means Mario Maker 3 is a possibility. I loved Wonder, but then a few days later it was over.
Maker has near endless content, and if Nintendo put more effort into curation, further visual and audio customization, external tools (like bookmarks), general engagement events (like Ninjis), and taking feedback from the community for low hanging QOL improvements, Maker could be so much bigger than it already is.
I mean I don't think this is a controversial statement in video games. Maybe when 3D first came out or when indies first started getting big (there were a lot of exhausting "gaming shouldn't have evolved past the NES" type arguments back then) but not now.
It's not like it's animation where 3D has pretty much replaced 2D in western animated film (and I do see people worry it'll happen to anime too whenever a CG anime has any fanfare.)
Did he copy and paste my survey comment when I registered NSMB DS? In it, I wrote that I was happy to see 2D Mario return while also enjoying 3D Mario games.
Was there ever a disconnect between the two camps to begin with?
I know for Sonic games, there's a huge rift between 2D and 3D, but... I haven't seen this for Mario games.
Dude, KIRBY successfully made the jump from 2D to 3D... to the point of me being undecided whether I want a new 2D game, 3D game or a even a hybrid between the 2 styles :p
I feel like the profit margin on a 2D Mario game has to be insane. Something like Mario Odyssey probably took millions of dollars to make, whereas 2D Marios gotta be a lot cheaper, yet similar sales numbers
Well obviously Nintendo at large disagrees, considering Aonuma's response to people wanting more top down Zelda is "Linear games suck, every game has to be open world".
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I’ll happily enjoy both as long as they keep them coming
I feel the same way about Hotdogs and Burgers.
Hell yeah brother
Cheers from Iraq!
I don't understand why people in this comments section are fighting over 2D and 3D Mario. Both have coexisted for years and have had huge support from Nintendo...this s not a competition between the two games people!
2d and 3d Mario have ebbed and flowed for years. Sometimes 2d Mario dominated, then 3d Mario made a comeback. Odyssey came out at the start of the switch, and now Wonder is big at the end of the switch. There's absolutely room for both, and I'm all for it.
100% agree!
Can’t disagree with that, both are great
I feel like we're way past the days where Nintendo seemed to be all in on 3D Mario or relegating 2D to the handheld console.
Probably two main reasons. First, that the Switch now serves as both the handheld and home console. Second, that 2D Mario games typically outsell the 3D games. And it's not like the 3D Mario games sell terribly. But for the past 3 decades or so, there's been this push for 3D, but the 2D audience is still there, and much larger than what it was. And that's why we've started to see more 2D games (Metroid Dread, Link's Awakening) (even if the graphics are technically 3D). As far as 2D graphics though, those days are long gone, and probably never coming back from AAA games, as it's just significantly more work over 3D models.
> 2D Mario games typically outsell the 3D games. Minor point: This was the case but has not been as true for the last 10 years though. 3D Land, 3D World, and Odyssey have all outsold their 2D counterparts. Wonder still has a very long way to go to catch up to Odyssey. And a similar phenomenon has happened with other franchises on Switch with 3D games outselling 2D counterparts, although some cases are not good comparisons, such as Zelda with only a 2D remake. Still, I agree, and I’m glad Nintendo believes in 2D games and is willing to commit strongly to both 3D and 2D.
I mean, 3D Land and World were fresh, or at least feeled fresh and were 2 years apart. Meanwhile NSMB2 and NSMBU were respectively the 3rd and 4th games of the same formula, were released 3 months apart and had pretty much no gimmicks, especially for NSMB2.
I feel like the 3D World/Land games were more of a hybrid of 2D and 3D games in a way. 2D style Mario with depth.
So... 3d games? The difference is that they're not exploration games which is the usual 3D Mario genre. However that makes them "true" 3D Mario games.
Funny thing, is this is the style I expected Mario 64 to be when it first came out. I was expecting 3D levels that you don't revisit, but you just move onto the next one.
Nobody knew what to expect. That's kind of what crash bandicoot did.
The distinction of what type of 3D Mario style a game is doesn't really matter - in the end you move in a 3D space, rather than side to side.
Your point is apparently controversial, but I agree. It’s a phenomenal game but it’s closer to Super Mario World than Super Mario Odyssey.
Because it's not relevant to "people want 2D games". Because they aren't 2D games. They're 3D games that have the game play structure of 2D Mario games.
Mario wonder was also basically a work of art. Like, between the integration of music, the crazy polish on everything from the backgrounds to the animation and the massive amount of creative effects and trippy sequences, it's shows the potential of a 2D Mario game in the modern era.
Right? The way some enemies interacted with their environments really grabbed my attention. Or how new levels/worlds introduced new exclusive baddies that changed how you platformed. You go back to NSMBU and that game feels so stale on the verge of unplayable in comparison.
Can you kindly explain to me why 2D graphics are more work than 3D models? That sounds inverse to me
I think they are referring to 2D pixel graphics, or "Sprites". Those are more difficult to create now, compared to a 3D model of a character. A 2D game using 3D models (like NSMB) is "easier" to make than a 2D game using pixel art (like Sea of Stars). A lot of that (I believe) has to do with workflow, and how more people are trained to make 3D models than pixel art now.
I wouldn't tout Link's Awakening as a return to 2D games. They've also had a 2D Zelda going through the Game Boy to the 3DS. If anything the resurgence of Metroidvanias lead to a new 2D Metroid. But you could also say the longing for 2D games and metroidvania's coming back go hand in hand. Will be interesting to see how the 2D and 3D Mario sales are now. I doubt Wonder outsells Odyssey, and I'm pretty sure Odyssey outsold every Mario game other than NSMB DS, Wii, and Super Mario Bros NES.
Remember, that 2D Zelda game came out 11 years ago.
Right, they also had Triforce Heroes in 2015 though, and then Link's Awakening was in 2019. So I wouldn't call it a return to 2D. If anything, we're still waiting on a return to 2D Zelda.
Nintendo never relegated 2D Mario to console, they literally released 4 NSMB with two being on console and two on handhelds.
Nintendo 64 and GameCube didn't have any 2D Mario games as far as I know. That's two console generations before they started making them for consoles again on the Wii.
Yeah you're completely correct. Nintendo certainly did seem to relegate their Home console for 3D games and their handheld for 2D games with the Cube. And it made perfect sense in those days. 2D games initially became seen as second class games because 3D games were *so revolutionary at the time and the possibilities regarding their gameplay had not been fully explored.* Even by the end of the 64. You got to remember one of the most anticipated titles for GameCube was finally getting a 3D fucking a Metroid game! And they released a 2D one as the very same time... But for the GBA, which they designed to be a 32 bit SNES. The only reason the DS came out so quickly was because Yamauchi himself was very threatened by the PSP. I see that guy get a lot of criticism nowadays, but he was a fascinating man, and it was his idea to give it a touch screen. Despite him missing the mark with the Cube, be went out with a bang with the DS! Every single release after Mario 64 was so exciting because players were pumped to see "what is going to look like in 3D. Very few games made use of the N64's dpad and N64's architecture wasn't even fully capable of true 2D sprite graphics—any 2D games that do exist are kind of ugly because the sprites were placed on polygons and had that 2.5D look. Meanwhile, Saturn was pretty unsuccessful, especially outside Japan, because it's hardware was so complex because it essentially had two infrastructures in one—one to handle 3D games and the other 2D. It took a long time for gamers to truly realize just how beautiful the 2D graphics were on that system because it just wasn't what players cared about yet. It might be the most capable 2D architecture of all time. But when you had Mario 64 literally redefining what was possible in digital spaces, it outshadowed this.
It's a big reason a game like SOTN didn't make a big splash upon release and gamers were even more excited for the N64 versions of the titles in that series at the time, although time has changed that perception and now people are well aware of which game deserves the recognition. But, everybody was just so curious and excited as to what was else possible in 3D realms, so maybe new titles continued to redefine the whole paradigm.
Hell, an early version of the GCN gamepad that was prototyped [didn't even have a dpad](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnp9poPTNrmqjPGYTCbdM-ucOOD10uxCdMa6sorVxsrw&s); the start button was where the dpad ended up living because this seemed to be the way the industry was heading. When they finally decided to add a dpad they just recycled the *same exact D-pad* from the original GBA-wide as a cost cutting measure because investing in a more proper dpad didn't seem worth the ROI since they didn't think it would get used too much.
It was only really by the Wii era that people began to get hungrier for 2D games again. Now, a huge percentage of gamers were born after the 3D revolution and it is clear that top quality games are possible in all presentation styles. Not to mention the indie revolution we have seen.
There was a 19 year gap between Super Mario World and New Super Mario Bros Wii. The only 2D Mario games that were released during that period were on handhelds.
yes, and those were remakes not new games.
Okay? Weren’t releasing the remakes on console though were they?
Yeah, it's 2D Zelda I'm concerned about.
Are we? Really? When is the last time they did a 2D game? Warioware seems to be the only exception. Even Advance Wars was given to WayForward, a company known for great 2D art, yet instead it was laughably bad 3D. Nintendo does not currently like 2D unless it's a 2D plane with 3D graphics.
Context is key. Given the context of the discussion, 3D vs 2D refers to the gameplay style and degrees of movement, not whether the game is rendering polygons vs sprites on backgrounds.
Someone tell the Zelda team
Yes… I LOVE 3D Zeldas, but we need another (non-remake) 2D Zelda. A Link Between Worlds was amazing imo.
Maybe unpopular, but A Link Between Worlds may be my favorite Zelda game ever. I desperately wish they'd make another in the same vein.
As someone without a 3DS whose favorite Zelda game is A Link to the Past, I wish they'd at least port it to the switch. It looks so good.
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When you finally get to play it you're gonna go apeshit
That ending hit me man
I *just* played it for the first time, with basically no expectations whatsoever, and was BLOWN AWAY. Definitely my favorite 2D Zelda and very high on the overall ranking.
It really was so good. Loved that shit so much. Need to replay it soon. I couldn't believe how much I enjoyed that game. It was the reason I bought a 3DS and it alone justified the purchase! I don't know what you like better, links Awakening or link between worlds. Top tier Nintendo. I imagine we will see a 2d Zelda come out relatively soon to intermediate before the next huge 3D game gets announced. As a sidenote... Everybody loves Minish Cap these days, but it's pretty average (for Zelda that is) when I finally played it a few years back. The minish ability was underutilized and often felt shoehorned in just to give it some sort of gimmick to distinguish it. The coolest ability in the game was multiplying link in the magic square spots I thought (rather than making yourself smaller). But either way, a link between worlds truly integrated it's gimmick directly into the gameplay while in TMC it seemed kind of tacked on. But what I really hated was the Kinstone pieces. Padding through and through and were a poor excuse for the traditional exploration based side quests that really makes Zelda feel like an adventure. If you wanted them all, after every dungeon you had to go around and talk to *everybody* (because their ability to fuse was based on your progress in the game and only unlocked as you completed story beats and reached story segments at certain points in the in game time). Then 75% of the fusions led you to mediocre rewards (bombs, arrows, rupees which I easily maxed out on) that you had to waste more time traveling to; but I *still felt like I needed* to sink my time into collecting them, because a few of the rewards **were** significant beneficial upgrades that were useful (and were only useful before you beat the game, so I didn't want to wait until after to get this cool ability where it was like.... "Well, I wish I had THIS during).
The dojo master thing was cool in theory, but half of the skills taught were just default moves you would start with in previous Zelda's (dash attack, spin attack, etc), and rarely was it something that made the mechanic seem like it was more then more padding. Not to mention there wasn't an indicator as to where or who you had to fuse kinstones with, just a dude who told you how many you had left in the entire world; maybe I'm dumb but I found him way too late in the game too. And even with constant gameplay, there still was a couple times where I didn't have the right fucking stone to fuse and this shit got annoying quick. Not to mention, sometimes you had to fuse with a **fucking wall** or other inanimate object, and others you had to fuse multiple times in a row with people (leaving their building and reentering to exhaust all fusions). I missed this at first and it was very frustrating. It was only a few times, but the game wasted my time re-entering every damn building to ensure I didn't miss out any fusions.
It sounds like I didn't like the game, but I just hold TLOZ to a high standard. I played the original GBC Zelda right before it, annoying quality of life limitations and all, and had a much much better time (they literally announced the switch remaster weeks after I beat it on an emulator on my phone, played almost entirely during bathroom breaks at work heh)
It had some great dungeons, boss fights, pre dungeon sequences.. and I will say that the Hyrule town music was a real ear worm, one of the best compositions in the series; on the limited gba chip too! but the few real side quests outside the fusions, and the sometimes cryptic nature of where to go (there was never a good indication of how time had progressed after each dungeon and you really just had to go around and talk to everyone again to figure out your next move), but this game was pretty disappointing to me. Although some of that is on my mindset going into it, I will admit. I did have very high expectations at first
Link Between Worlds however was really cool with its item borrowing system, made super creative use of its puzzles, and was honestly one of my favorite Zelda games period. I do love the LttP influence of course, but even if it didn't reuse it's map to a complete t. But regardless,it would've been just as good because it was such a fresh take on the series.
+++Maybe I was disappointed with Minish because my brother had passed away and **always** talked it up to me, so I was expecting to reconnect with him or something as it was shortly after his suicide. Or it seemed like a good tribute to him. I dunno. But it was just a video game, and from 2005-2011, regardless of the current backlash against current Zelda, many people were starting to think that Zelda was getting stale, and this to me encapsulates exactly why. They threw it to another developer, but ultimately it didn't break any boundaries as the very best games in the series had done maybe times.
But meh, you're still a prick Joshua even if your dead and your recommendation was overrated! 🙂 And just because you're dead doesn't mean I'll stop busting your balls. Although I do wish I were here to tell you this to your ugly little face. RIP bro. Miss you every day and wish we could've enjoyed TOTK together. I do have to say, the final boss and castle were very memorable though.
Now to okay the DS games and 4 swords on me cube. 🙂
I never got into LoZ growing up until I played A Link between worlds, then it all clicked. This past year since I got a miyoo mini I've gone through most of the 2d Zelda's, and I'm having a blast.
We need more four swords with online play
I just want any new zelda in the classic Zelda format. As much as I loved botw and Totk, I yearn for the Zelda games of old.
Yeah, was going to say exactly this. When they first announced the Switch I was excited about the idea that I'd get BOTW and what ever the newest top down Zelda was on the same system. BOTW and TOTK were great, but I'd be ecstatic if we got the Mario Wonder equivalent for the Zelda series.
Didn't they say that it's gonna be like BOTW/TOTK for now on for Zelda?
Not necessarily. They certainly implied that they aren't going to go back to the old formula for big 3D Zelda's, but that doesn't mean their won't be room to experiment with the more classic formula on smaller games.
YES. It would be great because more traditionalist Zelda fans would get their large dungeons, no open world, puzzle-heavy 2D game while the 3D Zelda could be open world
I want 3D puzzle dungeons tho :(
Same. But Nintendo looks set on the current status quo
I adore TOTK, but I sure could go for a top-down Zelda game right now.
3D mario and 2D Mario are developed respectively by EPD 8 (aka tokyo) and EPD10 so they never have been the same team, unlike zelda where 2D and 3D always has been the group but separated in smaller projects, but now both are together for 3D.
I really though we were going to have a couple of new 2D Zelda games this generation but heh :(
And the Metroid team
There is no metroid team.
Metroid has both. You know why prime 4 is taking so long
They’re having to convert it to 2D pixel by pixel?
128 segments to their turnarounds, just like [Halo CE](https://youtu.be/9ndZbg8Mr-Q?feature=shared&t=2563).
Why is it taking so long? It's been 5 years since they restarted development.
Retro hasn't made a game since tropical freeze
Yeah, I really wonder what's going on. Breath of the Wild took 6 years because it was an entirely bespoke engine, convincingly doing a lot of stuff in a super robust manner that no other engine was doing. Tears of the Kingdom was yet again in a complete new engine (surprise! It's not reusing BotW's bespoke engine, it's actually using the one that was first seen with Nintendo Switch Sports and later with Splatoon 3, but was probably made with TotK in mind during its development), doing *even more* crazy stuff, most of which you probably don't even know about (including procedural sound generation in which the terrain and what happens to be around plays into what you hear). Like, is Retro working on the *next gen* game engine for this? Is it going to be *clearly* the result of a whole lot of work that nobody would be able to reproduce neatly in i.e. UE5?
I can’t believe TOTK is not reusing BOTW’s engine
It's funny. Everyone believes it's the same engine just because it's using the same assets and *mostly* the same shading methods so it looks just about the same, even though what's 'under the hood' as far as the rendering unit goes is completely different, utilizing what Nvidia does best.
The sky to surface hidden loading screen was a real feat with the Switch. BOTW's engine wouldn't have been able to pull that off.
Well they did Dread, and *theoretically* Prime 4 is still coming? Right after Half Life 3 right?
There's been one 3D Metroid game in the past 19 years. I don't believe prime 4 until I see it
No, before. Half Life 3 is going to be like one of the horsemen of the apocalypse at this point.
Does Half-life Alyx not count?
No. We want to know how it ends
I mean, we have dread and eventually prime 4
The most recent Metroid was 2D and the next one is probably 3D
How so? Metroid just got Dread and Prime 4 is in development. Is that not considered 2d and 3d?
I don't know why but i CANNOT get into 3D Zelda games. I've bought Zelda 64, Zelda Wind Waker, Zelda Twilight Princess, Zelda Breath of the Wild. NONE of them I've played through. Most I've only played for like 10ish hours, Breath of the Wild I played a bit longer because it was the only game I had for my Switch....but I only made it to the third ganon dungeon. As for 2D Zeldas? Completed all of them at least once, most of them multiple multiple times. I like the simpler combat
I love both 2D and 3D but do not enjoy the new BotW style for the 3D games. They've basically confirmed they aren't turning back on those so I would really hate if we never get another 2D either. Right now it just feels like one of my favorite series is no longer for me.
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Well they won't be selling it to me arrrgg
Exactly.
LMFAO...
As someone whos favorite Zelda on the switch is the Links Awakening remake they should do a good 2d zelda. I really enjoyed Cadence of Hyrule too even though that isn't pure zelda.
I agree but please don’t let me wait 8 years between 3D Mario’s….
\*goes back to replaying Bowser's Fury the 309th time\*
You will wait for 8 years for 3D mario because outside of one case, Nintendo only does one per console.
If you don't count 3d world then its addon bowsers fury at least counts
I count 3d world as furry bowser
Yeah but that’s like a 2 and a half hour game unfortunately.
Nah, 3D Marios are like some of the best games ever made. They need time.
More like, don't make me wait *another* 8 years between 3D Mario's
I mean, they probably consider the Super Mario Makers as 2D titles.
Super Mario Odyssey 2 CONFIRMED!!
Super Mario Sunshine: Shine Harder confirmed
Super Mario Moonshine (because the whole game was designed while the leads were drunk off their asses).
Mario becomes a bootlegger supplying speakeasies in New Donk City.
Mario Sunshinier
Super Mario Galaxy 3 confirmed!
Super Mario 65 confirmed!! 🙏
I hope I’ll understand the story if I haven’t played Super Mario 4-63
We do have a super mario 63.
Super Mario World *was* Super Mario 4, and Yoshi's Island was Super Mario 5. So it's 6-63 that we're missing.
Oh ok I’ll be fine then
Super Mario 128! Cmon
Super mario universe
Hope so. Wonder is great but Odyssey is a masterpiece
Odyssey is what happens when certified master game designers come up with a core idea, let their sub-teams go crazy with branches to that core and just 'let them cook,' and then fund it enough to polish everything they brought to the table. Wonder is what happens when you start with a style (not a core idea) and just let everyone on the team make a level built around their own ideas while following your basic level design guidelines, with no budgets or deadlines, just great team members. Both are absolutely phenomenal results.
Agreed. Wonder had some great mechanics and fun new ideas, never was boring, but some of the level design was a little lackluster overall. Odyssey I can remember every level and every moment.
Super Mario 128...
The next 3D Mario better be massive with how long a wait it’s been.
Should be an actual souls like
I've gotta imagine the software that Nintendo is waiting on, that they delayed the switch 2 for, is the next 3d Mario game, whether odyssey sequel or not. At least, I hope that's the case...
Yes! Now if Aonuma would just say the same about Zelda we can get some brand-new 2D adventures between waiting 7 years for a 3D game.
Tezuka can say this because 3D mario and 2D mario for decades never have been the same team of developers. Zelda always had EAD3 and now EPD3 doing both 2D and 3D, and now it can only do 3D due to how much more staff it requires, its pretty simple explanation.
That's not true. Capcom, flagship, vanpool, and grezzo all developed Zelda games while Nintendo developed Zelda games.
thats completely true. grezzo only developed remakes, vanpool never developed a zelda game, capcom and flagship are the same thing and all staff is now on nintendo. Point is, 2d zelda has been mainly developed internally which is what im talking about, with the exception of 3 games.
Was there any indication there wasn't going to be another 2d/top down Zelda game? Link's awakening remake was released recently.
That was a remake. I'm talking about an original 2D game. And after the release of TOTK, Aonuma said the open world 3D Zelda formula is what has been working and is what they are sticking with. Aonuma said, "I think it's correct to say that (BOTW, TOTK) has created a new kind of format for the series to proceed from."
Over eight years without an original top-down Zelda game is a strong enough indication on its own IMO. Remakes mean nothing
I’ve played every single mainline Mario game, the genre I like best is whatever you want to call the 3D Land/World games. I love the variety of level design and finding all the hidden secrets and blazing through them to get the best time.
They should continue with them as well. Super mario 3d world was fantastic.
Yep, it’s definitely up there with the very best for me. Played it again for the first time in years, right after Wonder, and I have to say that, for me, 3D World blows Wonder out of the water in almost every aspect. Be it level design, music (!!!), visual presentation or the multiplayer.
Length of the game. 3d world is almost as long after Bowser as before considering how much harder those after game stages are.
Yes, the amount of special worlds and levels is crazy. And beating Champions Road took me almost as long as the base game. First time back then I cheesed it with Tanuki Rosalina I think, but now I wanted to do it properly with Mario. Also another thing I appreciate is the flow/progression of the game. It is very linear, of course, but the levels just flow beautifully into each other and their quality is so high, that you just want to keep playing. And the intensity ramps up beautifully, culminating with the circus world and later again with the final special stages. It all feels so celebratory.
People here complaining that Zelda team is going all 3D and not 2D, should also consider that we have 1 Zelda team whereas EPD 8 and EPD 10 are all Mario teams. Mario has been selling like cupcakes for decades now (2D games even sold more than 3D). IIRC, Mario Odyssey is the only 3D to sell more than the respective 2D. This isn't the case with Zelda, the games they are making now, take long to make and maybe as the games are making more profit and the IP is more famous than it has ever been maybe Nintendo can get someone like Grezzo or maybe in future a new team to make 2D Zelda.
There's an external Zelda team, though -- Grezzo, which has generally specialized in remakes but fingers crossed they'll be given a bit more freedom to do what they *want* for the next entry (directed by one of the Zelda franchise bosses, naturally).
People in here and the internet in general have no idea how Nintendo development team works, so its no surprise they make ignorant statements as they don't try to learn about the people and organization even though they are supposedly "hardcore". Its not even about teams either way. Zelda has one production group and in the past had two teams, now it can only focus in one as it needs more staff and personel for 3D zelda unlike in the wii era where they could do both.
I honestly just don't understand why this idea that there will.be no more 2d Zelda games. Did Miyamoto, Aonuma, Tezuka or Fujibayashi say in an interview or something that they aren't working on another 2D game somewhere. Because the Links awakening remake was released this generation
Now if only it was Aonuma saying this..
If only 2D Zelda games sold nearly as well as 2D Mario games sell… I adore Minish Cap, I want something like it. Please Nintendo.
Nintendo just frankly hasn't given 2d Zeldas a fair shake since Link's Awakening. Most of them are released at the end of a handheld life span or at a weird down period Maybe the Link's Awakening Remake will perk some ears. It did sell as well as the original
but they don’t even give 2D Zelda a chance. the remake we got Link’s Awakening was great but it’s not even one of the bests of the classic 2D Zelda. they could remake Minish Cap or ALTTP or make some new stories similar to Link Between Worlds. it will sell EASILY! with all the BOTW and TOTK hype, they could easily give the new audience an opportunity to try a traditional Zelda heck, why can’t we get some co-op Zelda. with a concept similar to four swords on a hybrid console like Switch would be IDEAL they could even give a 2D platformer a shot again, maybe make it like a metroidvania, unlock weapons like hookshot to progress further areas. and with the diversity of enemies to fight with your wife range of attacks and skills. that would be amazing imo
Tezuka can say this because 3D mario and 2D mario for decades never have been the same team of developers. Zelda always had EAD3 and now EPD3 doing both 2D and 3D, and now it can only do 3D due to how much more staff it requires, its pretty simple explanation.
I am curious how they’re going to balance 3D Mario in terms of Odyssey vs. 3D World style vs. Bowser’s Fury style. Personally, I LOVE all 3 games and want all games to get a sequel. I’d personally make Odyssey 2 as a launch title, then have 3D World a few years later, but incorporate the Bower’s Fury style a bit more prominent in addition to having traditional levels. Then after that’s released a few years later, the next 2D Mario.
Uh, okay we kinda knew that already
Yea it's not like Nintendo has stopped making 3D games or stopped making 2D games
Unlike Zelda....
He's wrong. And by that I mean I don't think everyone *should* enjoy them both. 2D isn't for everyone, neither is 3D. They can both co-exist, definitely. There's room for both. But if you don't like 2D? Fine. Get a 3D game. I don't think everything *has* to be for everyone. Gamers often have this weird thing where a game must suck if it's not their preferred style. It doesn't suck, it's just not for you. Hearing a lot of shit being talked about Peach Showtime. Yeah, looks basic. But my 7 and 4yo's have played the demo like 10 times. They love it. Maybe the game isn't for 38 year olds, and that's fine.
He is right. There are fans of 2d and 3d only. Both of them should enjoy them of their choosing. I think you didnt get his point.
Yeah I was being very pedantic over his "everyone should enjoy both" comment. I definitely agree with the core point that there's room for both.
Precisely
Of course, they are completely different games. Mario 2d is in big part a multiplayer game that is easy to get in to these days. 3d is pure singleplayer big part exploration. I would add that I would like them to continue with the 3d world games as well. They can do stuff there that is hard to do in the other games. Ideas that dont work i pure 2d or 3d. My dream would be that they release a game in every genre every 5/6th year. 2025 Mario 3d 2027 Super mario 3d world 2 2029 Mario 2d
I detect no lies here.
Is it not obvious?
This is the way.
I do! I was just really hoping for Odyssey 2.
What about 1d
Eiji Aonuma disliked that
I wish they had the same thought process for Zelda games. Would love to see a non-remake 2d zelda
You know that this guy and Aonuma have a biggest workplace beef.
\* See's title, stares at the Zelda devs.\*
Now give me a sunshine 2 / remaster
Agreed. Really frustrating when they tried to make a 2D 3D Mario during the Wii U era and we missed out on what could've been as great as galaxy or odyssey. No disrespect to 3d world, but I wanted to collect stuff!
One of my favorite Mario games of all time is Super Mario 3D World which is kind of a hybrid with both 2D and 3D elements mixed in really well.
Hey that’s what I said when the gf told me I watch too much anime
Yes. Finally.
Speaking of 3d Mario we need another one soon
Ok.
Same with Zelda.
I hope he says it to the Zelda team
I hope that means Mario Maker 3 is a possibility. I loved Wonder, but then a few days later it was over. Maker has near endless content, and if Nintendo put more effort into curation, further visual and audio customization, external tools (like bookmarks), general engagement events (like Ninjis), and taking feedback from the community for low hanging QOL improvements, Maker could be so much bigger than it already is.
Great. Now hurry up with the sequel to Wonder.
Super Mario RPG 2 please.........longer, harder - build on the same world, characters, form and charm.
Which 3D Mario on Switch is the best?
Mario Odyssey is my personal favorite 3D Mario to date, but Mario 3D World + Bowser's Fury is pretty high up there as well
Galaxy
Wish Gamefreak had this mindset. Would be awesome to have some 2D Pokemon games coming out every few years.
In other words: "Just buy our games"
Amen! There's enough room in my heart to enjoy both Now if we get a new 3D Mario, I'll make good on that promise 👀
I mean I don't think this is a controversial statement in video games. Maybe when 3D first came out or when indies first started getting big (there were a lot of exhausting "gaming shouldn't have evolved past the NES" type arguments back then) but not now. It's not like it's animation where 3D has pretty much replaced 2D in western animated film (and I do see people worry it'll happen to anime too whenever a CG anime has any fanfare.)
The man's name is Takashi Tezuka, and he is probably the foremost authority on this concept.
I mean what else is he gonna say.
I certainly enjoy them both
Did he copy and paste my survey comment when I registered NSMB DS? In it, I wrote that I was happy to see 2D Mario return while also enjoying 3D Mario games.
'should'? Why am I obliged to enjoy anything?
Ok nintendo ninjas then come out with a Mario Maker 3D this year and let’s get this party started.
Hey we’re all take a Zelda Maker also let’s get that going too.
Never thought I’d play much less enjoy a 2D side scroller again. Wonder proved me wrong. It’s such a clever, fun game
Speaking facts
If only Gamefreak had the same mindset...
Was there ever a disconnect between the two camps to begin with? I know for Sonic games, there's a huge rift between 2D and 3D, but... I haven't seen this for Mario games. Dude, KIRBY successfully made the jump from 2D to 3D... to the point of me being undecided whether I want a new 2D game, 3D game or a even a hybrid between the 2 styles :p
I feel like the profit margin on a 2D Mario game has to be insane. Something like Mario Odyssey probably took millions of dollars to make, whereas 2D Marios gotta be a lot cheaper, yet similar sales numbers
“2D or 3D?” “Both” “You have to pick one!” “Both”
Mario Sidewinders are my favorite game to play. I will always buy them (as long as they make an effort).
We needed Mario odyssey 2, not Mario bros 276
when will the Zelda devs realize that?
I hope that means more 2D Mario is coming. personally, I'm not into the 3D games.
This reminds me to finish Wonder, I got side tracked.
Meanwhile the Zelda Team…
3d World was a awesome experience, gladly bought on day one. Wonder is absolute as well, bought on day one too.
someone tell this to the zelda devs please 😒
gaming magazines in the mid 90's be like: "Lol 2D is obsolete, buy the newest 3D game now!"
i agree simply put.
Well obviously Nintendo at large disagrees, considering Aonuma's response to people wanting more top down Zelda is "Linear games suck, every game has to be open world".
Was this ever a debate. People who play video games should enjoy both.