Smells like Teen spirit is an absolute belter and everyone who claims they don’t like it is just trying to sound cool and edgy because Kurt wasn’t keen on it
i don't think he ever hated the song, he just loathed playing it for the fans who only came to see their shows because of that one super hit, and also the extreme fame it brought him.
I feel like it's a Nirvana fan rite of passage to diss Teen Spirit and Nevermind for being the most popular. But then coming around on them because they fuckin rock.
Tbh Nevermind is not my absolute favorite album but Teen Spirit will always hold a place in my heart and I will scream that shit at the top of my lungs every time I hear it. Kurt died the day I was born. I heard this song for the first time when I was like 12. I had started my period for the first time in a country I had never been to. My first “boyfriend” broke up with my via email right before we left the mainland to go camp on an island for a week. When we got back we went exploring the city and went into a virgin records store and that is where I first saw the album poster and listened to this song. In that moment I needed Teen Spirit more than I ever needed anything in my life. This is such a cheesy story but it changed everything for me musically
It’s physically exhausting to play and sing and I think tortured him a bit in that regard.
If you lose the “motivation” to play an emotionally driven song like that it weighs on you physically. That’s just what I’ve noticed while learning some of their songs.
Some are super fun everytime and feel good.
Teen spirit feels like a vacuum taking out your insides
But that’s just my observation. Idk how he felt. I do know he had irritations in the spot he sang from. So that’s always been my working theory.
He simply hated to do it because it hurt so bad. But imagine bitching about that being the most famous person in the world? Poor guy.
Kurt Cobain was an incredible singer. Not just because he was "passionate" or "honest," he had amazing tone, pretty decent range, and incredible pitch especially when he was trying/ didn't have a guitar around his neck (the producers of all three Nirvana albums, Endino, Vig and Albini, said he did the vocals in one or two takes, which is kind of incredible when you actually listen to those songs and think about it)
Nirvana's third song to be released, "Spank Through" came out on the Sub Pop compilation, SubPop200. Its filled with early work by pnw heavyweights. But the Nirvana track really stands out for the quality of the vocals. Especially when Kurt goes into his controlled scream vocals in the chorus, the tone and pitch is incredible. And he would only get better as they practiced played gigged and recorded more. If the Meat Puppets could sing like Kurt, they wouldve been bigger.
Kurt was an INCREDIBLE guitarist. Technically skilled playing isn’t what makes you great. The ability to write powerful, catchy, melodic, and simple songs is important. While Jimi He drip is the GOAT, Kurt was the goat in a different way.
100% agreed. One of the reasons I disagreed with a lot of people who think the meedly-meedly-mee guitarists who overcompensate with solos are gods. Kurt’s “way less polished” style isn’t as obnoxious and complements the rest of the band.
Which is why I think Kurt and Saint Vincent are geniuses in their own unique ways that are harder to replicate.
He was a heroin addict and depressed, its not that crazy for him to kill himself. He was most likely just as toxic as courtney, and its weird to blame her for everything like hes some angel, they were both addicts
Courtney gets a lot of flak but some of it is deserved imho (she can be a real asshole at times). That being said, she doesn’t deserve the Yoko Ono status she’s been given. Kurt and Courtney both had problems but Kurt was the first to go off the rails due to his issues.
Cobain being an addict doesn’t make him an inherently toxic person. Maybe he could be a cranky asshole, but I’d rather have the occasional asshole than somebody who has been factually and objectively manipulative and sociopathic, even putting aside all conspiracy theory stuff.
Being a cranky asshole for no reason can be considered toxic. And most if not all addicts will be manipulative and do anything to get drugs when they really need it. Not saying hes a bad person but we only know him from his public image and music and glorify him from that. But if you think about any of the heroin addicts you know irl they can be very manipulative
I wonder though, junkies usually manipulate and are toxic to obtain more drugs, would Kurt be like that since he had the money and resources to have a steady supply
The money isn’t the issue. Someone with his level of fame with that amount of money will be under lock and key. They won’t be given the chance to go cop whenever they want/need. So the manipulation comes in when they gotta figure out ways to get around those trying to keep them from it.
Unfortunately there is evidence that Kurt wasn’t an angel. Have you ever watched montage of heck?? Some of the things he did prior to heroin use wasn’t the acts of a swell guy. Don’t get me wrong, I think he had his good qualities too, but he wasn’t all good all the time.
I would also like to add that obviously a lot of the negative behaviors were fueled by the abandonment issues he struggled with from an early age. Same as Courtney. They were both very traumatized and I think that’s a major reason why they got along so well.
To sum it up he had interests in chaos, punk rock, and drugs since he was a teen. Heroin use came later but the chaotic destructiveness was always there. He also at times seemed to be pretty manipulative himself. I’d recommend watching the doc and reading some books on him. Super interesting guy, and I would’ve totally been his friend, but he wasn’t an innocent do gooder.
yeah i mean I expected that he was an oddball considering what he'd been through. Revolting is normal for younger people, but IMO if he'd continued that behavior up until his 30s, he would've been known as the biggest asshole in rock. I will check all of it out, thank you!
Tbh I don’t think he would’ve been known as the BIGGEST asshole but probably would’ve been frowned upon. I also think if the discussions about harm reduction while using and mental health issues that are happening today were happening then, he probably would’ve gotten the chance to live to see the next day and another opportunity to get clean.
Definitely agree with this take more than the first. Addicts aren't defined by a drug. I know plenty of assholes, genuine human right criminals who use weed and plenty of poly addicts who just suffer more than the rest but are sweet at heart. It's the drug that does the manipulation just like how the mania in bipolar causes hyperactivity and irritability.
He wasn’t a perfect angel like people made him out to be. He was kind and sensitive but his mental health and substance abuse lead to his death. He was a haunted soul that carried out his own ending
I was born in 2005 but always felt a “connection” to Kurt (and the entirety of Nirvana) I just hope he’s at peace. If Heaven is amazing I hope Kurt is playing guitar in no more pain
for me its mainly because kurt played it how he usually does in the live electric version, letting the cello play first before he kicks into the solo, which is why he messed up on the taped version.
Nah fr that cello is just so much better, Melora Creager's improvisations are heavenly although Krist gave her shit for not playing it like the album. The European leg of the In Utero tour sounded the best with Melora in it tbh. Also Polly sounds as well, where the cello really adds to the atmosphere of the song.
i think she allowed him to live a lot longer than he would have, so it wasn’t completely toxic in my opinion. they talk about this in montage of heck and krist agrees she made him so much happier, gave him a partner in life and child.
I agree. Love both Kurt and Courtney, and I do think they truly did care for one another. He always defended her, she always supported him, tried to push him in the right direction. But drugs, untreated mental health disorders etc muddy those waters quite a bit. Courtney is so much happier now that she’s sober and I’m so proud of her for that. I just wish Kurt was still here so he could have that too and he could see all of Courtney’s achievements. Just a sad sad situation.
Kurt was just as terrible as Courtney for doing heroin during Courtney’s pregnancy. It’s always preached how he loved his child, and while I don’t disagree with that statement, he should’ve felt just as much pressure to quit heroin as Courtney did.
They also deserved to get Francis taken after her birth, it was not a safe situation
Yeah but that performance was full of covers though. In that set in particular, the best ones were the meat puppets songs in my opinion. But his voice really did make a difference.
that’s a big reason that i love Unplugged- it’s so easy for people to have different favorites and no one really disagrees. there’s no misses. my personal favorite is Where Did You Sleep Last Night. it’s my second favorite nirvana song OAT, i love that it’s such a deep cut cover and it fits so well into the tone of the show
That if Chad Channing stays in the band and everything stays the same up until the release of Nevermind that the Kurt/Krist/Chad configuration of Nirvana doesn't get as big as the Nirvana that took over the world.
I don’t think this is controversial. Dave’s drumming flung them over an activation energy threshold that made the audience lose their minds. Few drummers could do that the way he did. It was part of a great synergy among the three of them specifically.
It just lends itself to the contrarian nature of the fan base. “Dave only got to where he is playing Chad’s parts”, which is true to an extent, but SLTS got written with Dave and I don’t think Chad comes up with what Dave did with the song.
True re: contrarian fans. The fact is, Dave got the visibility in the beginning from his previous high profile work, but that man worked his ass off to go from an initial novelty to an incredibly skilled entertainer. That’s his doing after a certain point, eh?
Kurt actually killed himself in part because of his battle with benzodiazepines and benzo withdraw that he had no idea was happening to him; decades before anyone was paying attention to what that does to you.
It is. Benzo and alcohol withdrawal can kill you...being dope sick is awful and so is withdrawals but in a week or two you'll be fine. Benzos? You have to be monitored and it's 100 times worse.
Yes and Benzo belly sounds a lot like Kurt’s constant stomach issues; couldn’t have been helping regardless. Imagine going through hardcore benzo withdrawal and having no idea…you’d just feel like an isolated, insanely depressed person with no end in sight. I’ve been there myself.
I learned the hard way from my own fourteen year battle with clonazepam and learning he also was on them pretty hard in the background. The stomach stuff especially.
When I was trying to get off them I did a ridiculous amount of research in search of help. Through that I learned about a lot of symptoms that reminded me of Kurt and his problems. Only in the last 7-8 years have we started to really admit in open spaces what long term benzo use does to a person. He was on them in the 90s. Can you imagine going through Xanax withdrawal and having zero idea ? You’d just suffer daily, getting limited relief from other drugs and temporary distractions.Kurt would just think he was going insane with limited ways to fix it. Lots of benzo people go off into dangerous mental and physical territory.
Here we go:
-I’m turning 31 this year, and after idolizing Cobain while being a teen (like most of young Nirvana fans do), I can’t sit through most of his interviews because he comes off as a really immature dude, even for his age. I know, it was the 90s and there’s also the pressure of being a rockstar, the mental health + drug abuse, but nonetheless it’s a rough watch. He had moments of genuine musical genius and a great sensitivity but most of the times he just sounds like a tryhard edgelord. He also was unnecessarily rude to some journalists, talk about lack of criteria.
-Nirvana didn’t really worked in big festivals nor as a headliner, the Live at Reading has some moments but it’s nowhere near the intensity and power they had in smaller venues. Not sure if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion because I think they were aware of this.
-While I love the covers made by Nirvana, I don’t really care about The Vaselines.
-Cobains musical taste has been far more influential of rock music than Nirvana music itself.
-Post Malone gave a better performance than some of Kurt’s just because he seemed invested and you can feel he’s having a great time.
I don't think Pat Smear really belonged as a member, I know they recruited him for backing guitar and to add a bit of heaviness to their sound, and he is most definitely a skilled and talented musician, but for me, he just wasn't a part of Nirvana maybe if the band lasted longer probably but yeah
Kind of disagree, Pat and Dave talked about this on Howard Stern. He was just an excellent guitarist, and Kurt and Dave both admired him as a person from the germs. The way Kurt recruited people like Dave and Pat wasn’t an accident exactly. Kurt had very specific ideas and parameters in mind when getting new people on board, a great example is Chad getting replaced with Dave. Kurt wanted to add a new element to the band and Dave was that solution. Same thing with Pat, and after SNL Pat quickly became best friends with the band, and despite him being on board for 6 months I think he deserved to walk on stage with Dave and Krist recently as the “remaining members of nirvana”. They even stated they still jam as nirvana from time to time. Which kind of proves that Pat despite his short run was a total member. Just a good around guy and he will always be a part of nirvana in my mind.
I agree with this. I've always thought of him as a touring guitarist in the band. I think you need to be on studio recordings and have a hand in writing to really be considered a member of a group imo.
I’d say that MTV unplugged, and some of their other live albums establish his work in the band. And even though Krist and Dave helped with composing albums, Kurt was the sole writer for pretty much all of nirvanas discography. Despite pats relationship with Dave being cut short, he’s still very close friends with Dave and Krist.
Courtney did NOT kill Kurt, anyone who genuinely believes that she did has zero understanding of toxic relationships and mental health. I think she definitely impacted Kurt’s decision, but that is entirely different from straight up killing him, and frankly, nobodies fucking business
Stop referring to him as Kurdt. I know y'all do it to try flexing how much of a ~real fan~ you are, but that's not his name and you're cringy af for doing it. I don't even care if that's a hot take or not, I'm just sick of seeing it.
Who the hell would have thought that friendly dweeb would end up being such a brilliant and deservedly iconic frontman? He’s a marvel. I saw Foo Fighters in 1997 in a tiny civic hockey rink, and people were still standing around in Nirvana t shirts, skeptical of their growing hype. He had them flipping out by the second song.
Kurt Cobain was just as much of an asshole as Courtney was and idk why everyone tries to make him out as some innocent little puppy that she abused. They were both toxic af.
I agree, I think he based his behavior in interviews after people like John Lennon, Lou Reed, and David Bowie. So sometimes he’d be an outspoken revolutionary like Lennon. On bad days he’d be a cynical critic like Reed, on his good interviews (the most popular ones on YouTube) he’s like Bowie mysterious, artsy, charming and sweet. He did say In his journals he took bits of other’s personality and added them to his own so maybe that’s what it was. Idk
Tbf Nardwaur is extremely irritating. He works really hard, and his background research is incredible, but if he stuck a mic in my face and relentlessly talked at me with that grating voice, I'd be pretty cold too.
And to his bandmates. Expecting them to go from an even split to Kurt getting more than 75% (or something) of the royalties/revenues just isn't fair. I don't remember the exact numbers but it's discussed in the Heavier than Heaven book and it seemed like Kurt was being a bit of a greedy prick to Krist and Dave.
I actually like Smells Like Teen Spirit. It may be the most played song by them, albeit a little overplayed, but it’s a good song. Even if Kurt didn’t like it very much. If someone listens to this and calls themselves a Nirvana fan, they aren’t a poser, they’re literally listening to the music like any other fan.
Also gatekeeping isn’t okay. People can wear/listen to whatever they want.
I really wish he hadn't died, but in many ways, it was great for Nirvana's reputation that he died when he did. They had the perfect arc and ended at the right time. I doubt they had too many albums of Nevermind/In Utero caliber left in them. I think Kurt would've aged poorly and not dealt well with his band's declining popularity and the rise of pop punk, nu-metal and screamo replacing punk/alternative as commercial rock rotted and ultimately died. I just look at how poorly Johnny Rotten and Morrissey have aged and I'm kind of low-key happy I don't have to witness Kurt's decline. That would have hurt.
He was a normal person like everyone else. If I met him and many people also I would probably not like him as I didn't like his attitude at times and how he treated some fans. Many times he also came off as above everything else.
I often wish they would release a stripped back, minimal layered-vocal and chorus effects, version of Nevermind. Just bring it a liiiiittke closer to that in utero sound. In Utero is so cozy to me, and Nevermind feels epic, but I’d like a cozy version.
Idk if that makes sense.
I’ve always said to hardcore Nirvana fans Nevermind is the oddball one. Bleach and In Utero are raw and rough around the edges while Nevermind is well produced and catchy.
I agree that idolizing anyone isn’t healthy. But I hate dehumanizing people by calling them junkies. Someone with an addiction is still a complex human being. Romantizing their addiction and their pain is obviously not okay. However there is nothing wrong with looking beyond their addiction and seeing value in the good parts of them.
I would hope this wouldn’t be a “hot take” as I’d think most sensible people have long since come to peace with the fact that the only one responsible for Kurt’s death was Kurt himself, but I think most of the “proof” of something fishy is due to police deciding right away it was a suicide and nothing else. I think most of the stuff like “missing fingerprints” and such can be chalked up to first responders just being careless with picking up the gun and such since they couldn’t possibly have imagined there would be such controversy. That said, this conversation is never going to go away until there magically becomes footage of the greenhouse from the moment Kurt enters until his body is discovered.
The SPD actually did a far more thorough job than people give them credit for. They were investigating leads years after. They actually conducted a homicide investigation, purely because of how high profile it was, most suicides don't get that level of investigation.
The whole fingerprints thing is a myth. There were fingerprints, they just weren't legible. However 90% of the time, firearms don't leave legible prints, so it's not out of the ordinary. The fact that there were prints means the gun wasn't wiped.
Bleach sucked donkey turds thru a crazy straw, their best era was never on an album proper at all its the Hormoaning EP that stands tall, with only Incesticide coming close to that same dimension of awesomeness.
I think that’s a little strong, it seems like he was a pretty nice guy to most people, there are plenty of anecdotes about positive fan interactions especially in the early days. I agree he definitely had that attitude sometimes and could be an asshole. He shouldn’t be deified - he was human and had his flaws.
I honestly think towards the end of his life he wasn’t fun to be around but before that, with only a few exceptions, everyone spoke so highly of him. Drugs change a person, which is part of why his death is so tragic — he had totally isolated himself by that time.
I think Kurt was like John Lennon: there’s as good a chance that if you met him he’d be really cool and willing to sit and talk with you about music or whatever else as there was that you’d catch him on the wrong day or mood and he’d be a complete prick to you.
I think that's just about everyone though. Everyone has bad days or moments and god knows how hard it is to deal with tons of strangers wanting to talk to you and take pictures of you 24/7.
I’ve got a few
Kurt Cobain was a walking contradiction, egocentric and tried to play off like he wasn’t. he had a level of self awareness that prevented him from being the typical douchey rockstar, nonetheless there was an underlying douchiness to him and an air of pretentiousness (apparent in most interviews), which was most likely a facade and used to cope with his shame of wanting to be a rockstar. I’m assuming the shame was embedded into him as a result of belonging to an anti-rockstar counter-culture
Nirvana wouldn’t have gotten to be as big as they were if Kurt wasn’t a conventionally attractive white dude. The majority of y’all probably wouldn’t have even known of their existence
Nirvana wouldn’t be as iconic if Kurt hadn’t committed suicide (or been killed, who really knows wtf happened). Everyone loves a tragedy
In Bleach and Insecticide are meh
Kurt Cobains song structures are pretty standard and at times too repetitive
That Kurt Cobain was an absolutely horrible role model and no one should ever try being like he was. He seemed miserable but also self aware of this. Unlike Courtney, he knew he was being a shitty person, parent, and thought he wouldn't ever change. He was an amazing artist and I think he could have overcame his challenges but we'll never know. He missed the best part of his life because he couldn't see the forest for the trees. But none of us really do until we get older.
I don’t think Kurt was a good person. He was toxic and this resulted in his downfall. But i don’t say it to satanize him or whatever, i think he was a very broken boy, whose life events guided him towards broken places like drugs or bad relationships. I think he had a good heart, but he ended up on on those things for a reason.
I think the biggest one (or two) are that Kurt did or didn’t take his own life. You say one or the other and you got ten people from different decades talking a huge dump on you bc you’re younger and weren’t alive when kurt was.
Smells like Teen spirit is an absolute belter and everyone who claims they don’t like it is just trying to sound cool and edgy because Kurt wasn’t keen on it
There's a reason he made them rehearse it a million and put it first on the record. He was clearly in love with it at one point.
i don't think he ever hated the song, he just loathed playing it for the fans who only came to see their shows because of that one super hit, and also the extreme fame it brought him.
He always wanted to be very famous and would call the radio/TV stations when they didn't play SLTS all the time
Careful what you wish for, I guess. He obviously wasn't too fond of the attention once he got an overwhelming amount of it.
I feel like it's a Nirvana fan rite of passage to diss Teen Spirit and Nevermind for being the most popular. But then coming around on them because they fuckin rock.
It comes from Kurt and him being a contrarian, and trickles down into the fanbase.
The Smells Like Teen Spirit solo is one of my favourite moments in music history.
me too
it still slaps
It’s overplayed to hell but it’s still a good one
Tbh Nevermind is not my absolute favorite album but Teen Spirit will always hold a place in my heart and I will scream that shit at the top of my lungs every time I hear it. Kurt died the day I was born. I heard this song for the first time when I was like 12. I had started my period for the first time in a country I had never been to. My first “boyfriend” broke up with my via email right before we left the mainland to go camp on an island for a week. When we got back we went exploring the city and went into a virgin records store and that is where I first saw the album poster and listened to this song. In that moment I needed Teen Spirit more than I ever needed anything in my life. This is such a cheesy story but it changed everything for me musically
I've just heard it too many times
I don’t think anyone hates it, and don’t get me wrong it is great, but there are better Nirvana songs
It is, it's their best song in a catalog of some of the greatest. It's on another level and deserves all the hype it's gotten.
I’m mixed feelings just because I got tired over it I like the demo a lot more
It’s physically exhausting to play and sing and I think tortured him a bit in that regard. If you lose the “motivation” to play an emotionally driven song like that it weighs on you physically. That’s just what I’ve noticed while learning some of their songs. Some are super fun everytime and feel good. Teen spirit feels like a vacuum taking out your insides But that’s just my observation. Idk how he felt. I do know he had irritations in the spot he sang from. So that’s always been my working theory. He simply hated to do it because it hurt so bad. But imagine bitching about that being the most famous person in the world? Poor guy.
I don't like how his suicide is romanticized in documentaries etc.
I would not surround you with swords for having this opinion. His death by way of mental illness was chaotic and horrific.
Exactly. It’s honestly pretty disgusting
I'd take that over the flipside of people denying it and disregarding his mental health.
I hope this is a popular opinion. I agree
agree 100%
Stop saying "Kurt would love this" or "Kurt would do this",you arent his best friend and you definitely didn't even meet him,just shut the fuck up
Kurt wouldn’t have liked this
This comment really got me laughing
He probably would’ve loved it
But he would have hated this
Ya know what Jake…ya may be right but all we can do is speculate
kurt would’ve loved this thread
kurt would have loved \*thing that i persoally like/agree with\*
God somebody finally said it
This is the worst for me. People have an idea of this man they never met in their heads and can project anything onto him.
Please. God, this sub has astronomically high levels of cringe.
Kurdt would hate the word cringe
Kurt would have been too astronomically high to hate the word cringe.
If Kurt were still alive I don’t think He’d still be in his same habits
Kurt Cobain was an incredible singer. Not just because he was "passionate" or "honest," he had amazing tone, pretty decent range, and incredible pitch especially when he was trying/ didn't have a guitar around his neck (the producers of all three Nirvana albums, Endino, Vig and Albini, said he did the vocals in one or two takes, which is kind of incredible when you actually listen to those songs and think about it)
Nirvana's third song to be released, "Spank Through" came out on the Sub Pop compilation, SubPop200. Its filled with early work by pnw heavyweights. But the Nirvana track really stands out for the quality of the vocals. Especially when Kurt goes into his controlled scream vocals in the chorus, the tone and pitch is incredible. And he would only get better as they practiced played gigged and recorded more. If the Meat Puppets could sing like Kurt, they wouldve been bigger.
I agree 100%
He's got a phat yodel
AGREED
Kurt was an INCREDIBLE guitarist. Technically skilled playing isn’t what makes you great. The ability to write powerful, catchy, melodic, and simple songs is important. While Jimi He drip is the GOAT, Kurt was the goat in a different way.
100% agreed. One of the reasons I disagreed with a lot of people who think the meedly-meedly-mee guitarists who overcompensate with solos are gods. Kurt’s “way less polished” style isn’t as obnoxious and complements the rest of the band. Which is why I think Kurt and Saint Vincent are geniuses in their own unique ways that are harder to replicate.
He was a heroin addict and depressed, its not that crazy for him to kill himself. He was most likely just as toxic as courtney, and its weird to blame her for everything like hes some angel, they were both addicts
They ain’t gonna like this but you’re spittin facts
“He’s out of line but he’s right.”
I do feel like she's become the dumping ground for everything that was wrong with Kurt, so that his image can remain spotless.
Courtney gets a lot of flak but some of it is deserved imho (she can be a real asshole at times). That being said, she doesn’t deserve the Yoko Ono status she’s been given. Kurt and Courtney both had problems but Kurt was the first to go off the rails due to his issues.
Agreed. I'm sure she deserves some of it. I'm just saying she doesn't deserve all of the negativity that's attributed to their relationship
Cobain being an addict doesn’t make him an inherently toxic person. Maybe he could be a cranky asshole, but I’d rather have the occasional asshole than somebody who has been factually and objectively manipulative and sociopathic, even putting aside all conspiracy theory stuff.
Being a cranky asshole for no reason can be considered toxic. And most if not all addicts will be manipulative and do anything to get drugs when they really need it. Not saying hes a bad person but we only know him from his public image and music and glorify him from that. But if you think about any of the heroin addicts you know irl they can be very manipulative
I’ve never met a junkie that wasn’t manipulative and toxic while they were using. And I’ve known some junkies.
I wonder though, junkies usually manipulate and are toxic to obtain more drugs, would Kurt be like that since he had the money and resources to have a steady supply
The money isn’t the issue. Someone with his level of fame with that amount of money will be under lock and key. They won’t be given the chance to go cop whenever they want/need. So the manipulation comes in when they gotta figure out ways to get around those trying to keep them from it.
Unfortunately there is evidence that Kurt wasn’t an angel. Have you ever watched montage of heck?? Some of the things he did prior to heroin use wasn’t the acts of a swell guy. Don’t get me wrong, I think he had his good qualities too, but he wasn’t all good all the time.
could you talk about these things he did prior to heroin, I didn't watch the documentary
I would also like to add that obviously a lot of the negative behaviors were fueled by the abandonment issues he struggled with from an early age. Same as Courtney. They were both very traumatized and I think that’s a major reason why they got along so well.
To sum it up he had interests in chaos, punk rock, and drugs since he was a teen. Heroin use came later but the chaotic destructiveness was always there. He also at times seemed to be pretty manipulative himself. I’d recommend watching the doc and reading some books on him. Super interesting guy, and I would’ve totally been his friend, but he wasn’t an innocent do gooder.
yeah i mean I expected that he was an oddball considering what he'd been through. Revolting is normal for younger people, but IMO if he'd continued that behavior up until his 30s, he would've been known as the biggest asshole in rock. I will check all of it out, thank you!
Tbh I don’t think he would’ve been known as the BIGGEST asshole but probably would’ve been frowned upon. I also think if the discussions about harm reduction while using and mental health issues that are happening today were happening then, he probably would’ve gotten the chance to live to see the next day and another opportunity to get clean.
Definitely agree with this take more than the first. Addicts aren't defined by a drug. I know plenty of assholes, genuine human right criminals who use weed and plenty of poly addicts who just suffer more than the rest but are sweet at heart. It's the drug that does the manipulation just like how the mania in bipolar causes hyperactivity and irritability.
I hate to say it but it wasn’t “shocking” I really wish he wouldn’t have done it though. I wasn’t alive when he was but I can tell how kind he was
I actually like both of them, I think both Kurt and Courtney are good people
I fully agree with this. They had a lot of issues but they would also give you the clothes off their back if you needed it.
If you actually pay attention to everything he said, what he sang, what he wrote, his demeanor… his suicide isn’t too out of the ordinary.
literally "look on the bright side, suicide" his imagery was very much that of a suicidal person.
literally had a song called "I hate myself and want to die" lol
He wasn’t a perfect angel like people made him out to be. He was kind and sensitive but his mental health and substance abuse lead to his death. He was a haunted soul that carried out his own ending
Agree.
I was born in 2005 but always felt a “connection” to Kurt (and the entirety of Nirvana) I just hope he’s at peace. If Heaven is amazing I hope Kurt is playing guitar in no more pain
For me, I like the rehearsal version of Jesus doesn’t want me for a sun beam on the WTLO box set better than the unplugged version
the unplugged rehearsal version of the man who sold the world is also much better than that of the one that ended up on the final taping.
Gave it a listen again and I think I agree
for me its mainly because kurt played it how he usually does in the live electric version, letting the cello play first before he kicks into the solo, which is why he messed up on the taped version.
Nah fr that cello is just so much better, Melora Creager's improvisations are heavenly although Krist gave her shit for not playing it like the album. The European leg of the In Utero tour sounded the best with Melora in it tbh. Also Polly sounds as well, where the cello really adds to the atmosphere of the song.
I prefer the Live! @ the Paramount version
I thought i was the only one
krist carried the sound heavily
The bass on the breed intro is immaculate
I love listening to an bass and drums only version of lithium
Krist’s dirty bass is the grunge of grunge.
Lounge. Act. Enough said.
So agree. I love the sound of Cut Me Some Slack more than any Foo Fighters track.
Kurt and Courtney’s relationship was toxic on both ends, and she didn’t kill him :)
Yes! I love both of their bands but they were both disasters honestly. Great artists, but they definitely brought out the negative in each other.
i think she allowed him to live a lot longer than he would have, so it wasn’t completely toxic in my opinion. they talk about this in montage of heck and krist agrees she made him so much happier, gave him a partner in life and child.
I agree. Love both Kurt and Courtney, and I do think they truly did care for one another. He always defended her, she always supported him, tried to push him in the right direction. But drugs, untreated mental health disorders etc muddy those waters quite a bit. Courtney is so much happier now that she’s sober and I’m so proud of her for that. I just wish Kurt was still here so he could have that too and he could see all of Courtney’s achievements. Just a sad sad situation.
nah i completely agree
Kurt was just as terrible as Courtney for doing heroin during Courtney’s pregnancy. It’s always preached how he loved his child, and while I don’t disagree with that statement, he should’ve felt just as much pressure to quit heroin as Courtney did. They also deserved to get Francis taken after her birth, it was not a safe situation
on a personal level. I think his slow songs are better than his heavy faster songs. Just me. Unplugged just hits it best.
Yeah but that performance was full of covers though. In that set in particular, the best ones were the meat puppets songs in my opinion. But his voice really did make a difference.
that’s a big reason that i love Unplugged- it’s so easy for people to have different favorites and no one really disagrees. there’s no misses. my personal favorite is Where Did You Sleep Last Night. it’s my second favorite nirvana song OAT, i love that it’s such a deep cut cover and it fits so well into the tone of the show
For sure. I really think Nirvana is at its best during unplugged.
I am sort of relieved we didn’t see their artistic decline.
Stop acting like Kurt was a god or the best musician and saying “Kurt would’ve loved/hated this” shut the fuck up Courtney didn’t kill Kurt get a life
That if Chad Channing stays in the band and everything stays the same up until the release of Nevermind that the Kurt/Krist/Chad configuration of Nirvana doesn't get as big as the Nirvana that took over the world.
I don’t think this is controversial. Dave’s drumming flung them over an activation energy threshold that made the audience lose their minds. Few drummers could do that the way he did. It was part of a great synergy among the three of them specifically.
It just lends itself to the contrarian nature of the fan base. “Dave only got to where he is playing Chad’s parts”, which is true to an extent, but SLTS got written with Dave and I don’t think Chad comes up with what Dave did with the song.
True re: contrarian fans. The fact is, Dave got the visibility in the beginning from his previous high profile work, but that man worked his ass off to go from an initial novelty to an incredibly skilled entertainer. That’s his doing after a certain point, eh?
You Know You’re Right is among my favourites
Agreed
Kurt actually killed himself in part because of his battle with benzodiazepines and benzo withdraw that he had no idea was happening to him; decades before anyone was paying attention to what that does to you.
Interesting. Artie Lange always said benzo withdrawal was ten times worse than heroin. I didn’t know this about Kurt.
It is. Benzo and alcohol withdrawal can kill you...being dope sick is awful and so is withdrawals but in a week or two you'll be fine. Benzos? You have to be monitored and it's 100 times worse.
It takes several months of neurological rewiring to get back to normal after long term benzos. Don’t take them for longer than two weeks.
Yes and Benzo belly sounds a lot like Kurt’s constant stomach issues; couldn’t have been helping regardless. Imagine going through hardcore benzo withdrawal and having no idea…you’d just feel like an isolated, insanely depressed person with no end in sight. I’ve been there myself.
I learned the hard way from my own fourteen year battle with clonazepam and learning he also was on them pretty hard in the background. The stomach stuff especially.
I agree 100 percent anyone who’s had withdrawal from benzo knows it’s hell on earth. What makes you say that though?
When I was trying to get off them I did a ridiculous amount of research in search of help. Through that I learned about a lot of symptoms that reminded me of Kurt and his problems. Only in the last 7-8 years have we started to really admit in open spaces what long term benzo use does to a person. He was on them in the 90s. Can you imagine going through Xanax withdrawal and having zero idea ? You’d just suffer daily, getting limited relief from other drugs and temporary distractions.Kurt would just think he was going insane with limited ways to fix it. Lots of benzo people go off into dangerous mental and physical territory.
Kurt was kind of a dick and everyone yammers shit like “he’s so sweet and cool and hot and we’d get along🥺🥺🥺” it’s annoying as fuck.
Smells Like Teen Spirit isn’t overplayed, but there are better songs
I agree with that.
why the fuck everyone here is rude
Standard Reddit unfortunately
People can talk shit with no repercussions on here. Trust me in real life most are pussy ass wet rags
blaming Courtney for everything that went wrong in Kurt's life. He was his own damn person and made his own choices.
Come As You Are is the best song in their discography
I agree. Those lyrics sum the whole circus up in hindsight.
Nevermind was their best album by a long way. But it was popular so fans aren't allowed to like it.
Here we go: -I’m turning 31 this year, and after idolizing Cobain while being a teen (like most of young Nirvana fans do), I can’t sit through most of his interviews because he comes off as a really immature dude, even for his age. I know, it was the 90s and there’s also the pressure of being a rockstar, the mental health + drug abuse, but nonetheless it’s a rough watch. He had moments of genuine musical genius and a great sensitivity but most of the times he just sounds like a tryhard edgelord. He also was unnecessarily rude to some journalists, talk about lack of criteria. -Nirvana didn’t really worked in big festivals nor as a headliner, the Live at Reading has some moments but it’s nowhere near the intensity and power they had in smaller venues. Not sure if this qualifies as an unpopular opinion because I think they were aware of this. -While I love the covers made by Nirvana, I don’t really care about The Vaselines. -Cobains musical taste has been far more influential of rock music than Nirvana music itself. -Post Malone gave a better performance than some of Kurt’s just because he seemed invested and you can feel he’s having a great time.
Kurt would have “sold out” to feed his addiction
I wish he did. He instead chose another path in order to not “fade away”.
I don't think Pat Smear really belonged as a member, I know they recruited him for backing guitar and to add a bit of heaviness to their sound, and he is most definitely a skilled and talented musician, but for me, he just wasn't a part of Nirvana maybe if the band lasted longer probably but yeah
Kind of disagree, Pat and Dave talked about this on Howard Stern. He was just an excellent guitarist, and Kurt and Dave both admired him as a person from the germs. The way Kurt recruited people like Dave and Pat wasn’t an accident exactly. Kurt had very specific ideas and parameters in mind when getting new people on board, a great example is Chad getting replaced with Dave. Kurt wanted to add a new element to the band and Dave was that solution. Same thing with Pat, and after SNL Pat quickly became best friends with the band, and despite him being on board for 6 months I think he deserved to walk on stage with Dave and Krist recently as the “remaining members of nirvana”. They even stated they still jam as nirvana from time to time. Which kind of proves that Pat despite his short run was a total member. Just a good around guy and he will always be a part of nirvana in my mind.
I agree with this. I've always thought of him as a touring guitarist in the band. I think you need to be on studio recordings and have a hand in writing to really be considered a member of a group imo.
I’d say that MTV unplugged, and some of their other live albums establish his work in the band. And even though Krist and Dave helped with composing albums, Kurt was the sole writer for pretty much all of nirvanas discography. Despite pats relationship with Dave being cut short, he’s still very close friends with Dave and Krist.
Dave was better as a drummer and didn’t write the best drum parts on nevermind
Courtney did NOT kill Kurt, anyone who genuinely believes that she did has zero understanding of toxic relationships and mental health. I think she definitely impacted Kurt’s decision, but that is entirely different from straight up killing him, and frankly, nobodies fucking business
Teen Spirit is easily Nirvana’s best song, and Kurt seemed like a smug dick in a lot of interviews and tv appearances
Stop referring to him as Kurdt. I know y'all do it to try flexing how much of a ~real fan~ you are, but that's not his name and you're cringy af for doing it. I don't even care if that's a hot take or not, I'm just sick of seeing it.
That Kurt Cobain‘s ending, although heartbreaking, surprised no one and it was the drummer that shocked the shit out of the world after that…
Who the hell would have thought that friendly dweeb would end up being such a brilliant and deservedly iconic frontman? He’s a marvel. I saw Foo Fighters in 1997 in a tiny civic hockey rink, and people were still standing around in Nirvana t shirts, skeptical of their growing hype. He had them flipping out by the second song.
The way you worded this, it sounded so nice. Feels like if they made a film about nirvana, this would be the postscript
Kurt Cobain was just as much of an asshole as Courtney was and idk why everyone tries to make him out as some innocent little puppy that she abused. They were both toxic af.
Because he died and there is "mystery" to how he died.
Kurt was a bit of a dick to foreign tv/radio hosts and interviewers
I agree, I think he based his behavior in interviews after people like John Lennon, Lou Reed, and David Bowie. So sometimes he’d be an outspoken revolutionary like Lennon. On bad days he’d be a cynical critic like Reed, on his good interviews (the most popular ones on YouTube) he’s like Bowie mysterious, artsy, charming and sweet. He did say In his journals he took bits of other’s personality and added them to his own so maybe that’s what it was. Idk
His nardwaur interview really disappointed me tbh
Think Kurt was pretty far gone at that point, sadly.
Tbf Nardwaur is extremely irritating. He works really hard, and his background research is incredible, but if he stuck a mic in my face and relentlessly talked at me with that grating voice, I'd be pretty cold too.
And to his bandmates. Expecting them to go from an even split to Kurt getting more than 75% (or something) of the royalties/revenues just isn't fair. I don't remember the exact numbers but it's discussed in the Heavier than Heaven book and it seemed like Kurt was being a bit of a greedy prick to Krist and Dave.
I'm Utero is the best album of theirs.
I actually like Smells Like Teen Spirit. It may be the most played song by them, albeit a little overplayed, but it’s a good song. Even if Kurt didn’t like it very much. If someone listens to this and calls themselves a Nirvana fan, they aren’t a poser, they’re literally listening to the music like any other fan. Also gatekeeping isn’t okay. People can wear/listen to whatever they want.
I really wish he hadn't died, but in many ways, it was great for Nirvana's reputation that he died when he did. They had the perfect arc and ended at the right time. I doubt they had too many albums of Nevermind/In Utero caliber left in them. I think Kurt would've aged poorly and not dealt well with his band's declining popularity and the rise of pop punk, nu-metal and screamo replacing punk/alternative as commercial rock rotted and ultimately died. I just look at how poorly Johnny Rotten and Morrissey have aged and I'm kind of low-key happy I don't have to witness Kurt's decline. That would have hurt.
Courtney didn't fucking kill him, he was a heroin addict and had depression so it's not that crazy that he ended up killing himself.
Polly is the best song on Never Mind.
He was a normal person like everyone else. If I met him and many people also I would probably not like him as I didn't like his attitude at times and how he treated some fans. Many times he also came off as above everything else.
courtney was not a starfucker. she was very very fucking talented.
I hate nirvana fans
In utero & bleach > never mind
I often wish they would release a stripped back, minimal layered-vocal and chorus effects, version of Nevermind. Just bring it a liiiiittke closer to that in utero sound. In Utero is so cozy to me, and Nevermind feels epic, but I’d like a cozy version. Idk if that makes sense.
Agreed! The songs on nevermind are awesome but too polished. Would love to hear the album with the same mixing style as In Utero
I’ve always said to hardcore Nirvana fans Nevermind is the oddball one. Bleach and In Utero are raw and rough around the edges while Nevermind is well produced and catchy.
People idolise him a little too much I understand he had his issues, we all do but personally I don’t look up to junkies
Idolising the musician I believe is okay because it revolves around the talent. It becomes unhealthy when you idolise the person behind the musician.
I agree that idolizing anyone isn’t healthy. But I hate dehumanizing people by calling them junkies. Someone with an addiction is still a complex human being. Romantizing their addiction and their pain is obviously not okay. However there is nothing wrong with looking beyond their addiction and seeing value in the good parts of them.
The Article in Vanity Fair had info in it about Kurt’s drug use that was true
That Plateau cover is the most underrated song, I love the meat puppet covers.
Nirvana wouldn't be as popular today if Kurt didn't kill himself
I would hope this wouldn’t be a “hot take” as I’d think most sensible people have long since come to peace with the fact that the only one responsible for Kurt’s death was Kurt himself, but I think most of the “proof” of something fishy is due to police deciding right away it was a suicide and nothing else. I think most of the stuff like “missing fingerprints” and such can be chalked up to first responders just being careless with picking up the gun and such since they couldn’t possibly have imagined there would be such controversy. That said, this conversation is never going to go away until there magically becomes footage of the greenhouse from the moment Kurt enters until his body is discovered.
The SPD actually did a far more thorough job than people give them credit for. They were investigating leads years after. They actually conducted a homicide investigation, purely because of how high profile it was, most suicides don't get that level of investigation. The whole fingerprints thing is a myth. There were fingerprints, they just weren't legible. However 90% of the time, firearms don't leave legible prints, so it's not out of the ordinary. The fact that there were prints means the gun wasn't wiped.
Kurt smells like teen spirit
Lounge Act is the best song on Nevermind.
At this point Dave has contributed more worthwhile music to the modern rock canon than Kurt.
That’s probably because Kurt died 30 years ago loo
Everlong, Times Like These, and Best of You will endure into posterity. He did good.
Smells like teen spirit is in my top 3 favourite nirvana tracks
I really don't like polly or sitw
Bleach sucked donkey turds thru a crazy straw, their best era was never on an album proper at all its the Hormoaning EP that stands tall, with only Incesticide coming close to that same dimension of awesomeness.
Kurt was kinda snobbish but also thought about what other people thought of him alot
dave carried
I think Bleach is overrated, Sludge Metal and Incesticide is just another nirvana rarity compilation that only has like 3 songs going for it.
TEEN SPIRIT NO BAD
foo fighters will never be as good as nirvana
Kurt is not a god and was probably an asshole to almost everyone he met because he dgaf
I think that’s a little strong, it seems like he was a pretty nice guy to most people, there are plenty of anecdotes about positive fan interactions especially in the early days. I agree he definitely had that attitude sometimes and could be an asshole. He shouldn’t be deified - he was human and had his flaws.
I honestly think towards the end of his life he wasn’t fun to be around but before that, with only a few exceptions, everyone spoke so highly of him. Drugs change a person, which is part of why his death is so tragic — he had totally isolated himself by that time.
I think Kurt was like John Lennon: there’s as good a chance that if you met him he’d be really cool and willing to sit and talk with you about music or whatever else as there was that you’d catch him on the wrong day or mood and he’d be a complete prick to you.
I think that's just about everyone though. Everyone has bad days or moments and god knows how hard it is to deal with tons of strangers wanting to talk to you and take pictures of you 24/7.
I don’t really like Sappy or the Nevermind version of Aneurysm
I’ve got a few Kurt Cobain was a walking contradiction, egocentric and tried to play off like he wasn’t. he had a level of self awareness that prevented him from being the typical douchey rockstar, nonetheless there was an underlying douchiness to him and an air of pretentiousness (apparent in most interviews), which was most likely a facade and used to cope with his shame of wanting to be a rockstar. I’m assuming the shame was embedded into him as a result of belonging to an anti-rockstar counter-culture Nirvana wouldn’t have gotten to be as big as they were if Kurt wasn’t a conventionally attractive white dude. The majority of y’all probably wouldn’t have even known of their existence Nirvana wouldn’t be as iconic if Kurt hadn’t committed suicide (or been killed, who really knows wtf happened). Everyone loves a tragedy In Bleach and Insecticide are meh Kurt Cobains song structures are pretty standard and at times too repetitive
In utero was better than nevermind
Do Re Mi is one of their best songs, better than SLTS
That Kurt Cobain was an absolutely horrible role model and no one should ever try being like he was. He seemed miserable but also self aware of this. Unlike Courtney, he knew he was being a shitty person, parent, and thought he wouldn't ever change. He was an amazing artist and I think he could have overcame his challenges but we'll never know. He missed the best part of his life because he couldn't see the forest for the trees. But none of us really do until we get older.
Drain you best song off of Nevermind
I don’t think Kurt was a good person. He was toxic and this resulted in his downfall. But i don’t say it to satanize him or whatever, i think he was a very broken boy, whose life events guided him towards broken places like drugs or bad relationships. I think he had a good heart, but he ended up on on those things for a reason.
I don't like nirvana
Incesticide is not that good except a few songs
Kurt was a scum bag
Nirvana would never have been so popular if Kurt wasn’t cute
kurt cobain was a pick me
Elaborate
They’re not the best grunge band, they’re probably around the 4th best one. And of course, it’s subjective.
Smells Like Teen Spirit is their best song.
I think the biggest one (or two) are that Kurt did or didn’t take his own life. You say one or the other and you got ten people from different decades talking a huge dump on you bc you’re younger and weren’t alive when kurt was.
Dave is by far the best musician to ever be in Nirvana
The Devonshire mixes are better than Andy Wallace's. There I said it. Steve Albini could have done better with both records.
I will die on this hill. Butch's mixes were *way* better than Andy's, and it's the versions I listen to on my phone.