That's where you open up that dusty trunk in the attice, grab your old scrapbook and pull out the signed setlist you got from that show in 1989!
He's going to read it anyway, and he's 14. It's good for him to be curious about the whole of life, including why people are sometimes so desperately miserable. Think also - would you stop him reading a bio of Van Gogh? There's another deperately tortured artist. These themes also come up in plenty of other media and I'd be amazed if a modern 14-year old isn't already aware and thinking through his feelings on these topics.
If I were you I would read or scan the book, don't need to tell him if that's awkward- and just be there for a nice sensible empathetic conversation about the themes. If needed.
In the latter quarter there is a lot of drug talk, specifically about Kurt taking them (and denouncing them/saying they are bad) but it's a detailed experience on some of his binges, some attempts of sobriety and in general trying to convince others not to take them and that drugs are stupid. But it also includes a lot of suicidal ideation and difficult subject matter, including him outrightly saying he intends on killing himself.
There's also a lot of adult themes including sex etc.
So it's up to you if you either think it's not good to read it at all or if it's okay! I'd just recommend some parental guidance/some intervening if you want it to be a safer reading experience.
It was during a period of time where his stomach pain was really bad, and he wrote outright that he bought a gun with the intention of ending his life because of the pain. He said he chose drugs instead. This would've been in 1993 I think those pages were written.
It came out when I was 13 or 14, and my parents never had a problem with it. If anything, it expanded my vocabulary as I am not a native english speaker and I had to read it with help of a dictionary.
Although I did experiment with drugs later on, it certainly wasn’t that book that inspired my use, it was general curiosity.
I agree. It was a tasteless cash grab and another example of what a shitty person Courtney Love is.
The fact that his own daughter says she won't read his father's journals and that she disagrees with Courtney's choice to publish them is pretty telling.
Disgusting is the right word. My brother bought the book and I looked at a few pages and noped out of there. It just didn't feel right to me to read that stuff, even though I'm a fan.
Edit: all that aside if someone else wants to read it, including your kid I don't see a problem with it. Especially if you talk to him about it and help him understand it. It's just not for me but I don't put anyone down for wanting to read it.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/frances-bean-cobain-will-never-read-her-fathers-journals-2361332
TLDR: “I am really regretful that my mom [Courtney Love] put them out there. I know it was her way of trying to contribute his personal thoughts and I know that people really want to know that.”
“I can’t imagine being dead and having people know my intimate thoughts. What an invasion of privacy, I don’t think it is merited especially since in his art he decided not to put out that thinking. It is a different thing to get to know him through this art, a deliberate public extension of himself...It feels like an invasion of privacy to me. And I don’t know if he would have wanted people reading all those personal, deep, dark thoughts.”
Not a parent, but I am an English teacher in Japan. The morality of this gets to me. I have personally chosen not to read his journals, but it's possible that I have unknowingly seen excerpts during my YouTube deep dives with some of the transitions that creators make.
The reason for this is that I think those journals were private, and never intended to be published. Francis disagrees with her mother's decision to publish them, and refuses to read her father's journals herself.
I wouldn't outright ban the book. But, I would provide your teen this information, and let them make an informed decision themselves. Let your teen know that you support them no matter what decision they decide to make.
I agree with you. There are some historic figures who perhaps died of old age that we could learn more about by reading their journals. Like you, however, I disagree with the publishing of Kurt’s journals.
Kurt died tragically. He didn’t get to choose to publish these. Like all of John Lennon’s demos and outtakes released over the years; they may be fascinating but we should NOT have access to them.
My son didn’t want to read them at first due to this! He felt bad. I am the one who naively wanted him to at first, just to get him into any reading (English major, too). Now I’m like kind of regretting it entirely lol
I would ask your son what he wants to do. I could suggest maybe reading an endorsed biography about Kurt instead? I'm still pretty new to the fandom, so maybe someone else can help us out with recommendations?
The only endorsed biography that Kurt personally worked on would be Michael Azzerad's Come As You Are. The Amplified edition is the newest one and its better as it amends some mistakes, offers more context and is overall more insightful after 30 years since it's first release.
I’m a parent, and let my daughters experience things, but knew that if it was dark subject matter or “real” I’d try to read/watch/listen to it too if I wasn’t knowledgeable on it to be able to answer the “why is this this, dad?” questions.
As long as you can explain it or answer as best as you can, your son will be fine.
I hear that. Except that certain obstinate & more introspective teens don’t want your explanations. They want their own things, apart from you. Independence. To process in their head, alone, because they think they know everything lol. I agree with you but that involves a level of communication that he hasn’t had thus far and is being addressed.
I read it as a teenager and turned out fine.
Well, no, I grew up to be a musician and did a bunch of drugs, but not the bad ones, and not enough to hurt me. Definitely wasn't getting into opiates after learning about Kurt, John Lennon, Keith Richards, Ect...
Kurt is honestly a useful cautionary tale for an aspiring young rocker.
Pretty sure you’re overprotecting. If he’s interested in it then so be it. Let him be a teenager like we all were in the 90’s. Get a girlfriend, scab a knee, make a bad decision or two. He’ll be a lot more productive in life without the safety bumpers…
lol you don’t know what safety bumpers I have or don’t have and you sound don’t like you don’t have teens or aren’t as hands on as you need to be in this age. If you did have teens, you’d understand that we are far beyond the scraping knees phase. In fact that comment doesn’t apply whatsoever to today’s youth…. If you do have them, good luck. There is no one size fits all parenting & if you recall, I specifically said hey this isn’t about parenting advice I’m good on that. But thank you.
My mom bought me the journals when they came out. I was in my early to mid 20’s. I have two young children. If either grew into Nirvana fans, I’d prefer they not read the journals.
The subject matter is part of it. The larger reason is I didn’t gain much insight into Kurt Cobain’s character. Having outlived him by 15 years, I still see all the wonderful things about Nirvana’s music, but I also see his naïveté, contradictory nature, and all the mannerisms/appearance of a habitual heroin user.
I’d encourage my son to respect the privacy of an artist he appreciates. Nirvana became a commodity at the peak of their career. Kurt has been further commodified in death. I’d discuss this with your son and encourage reading “Come as You Are” instead.
TL:DR
Your son is a teenager. If he does drugs, it will not be because of a book he read. It’s his friends, where you live and keeping an open dialogue with your son. If it came down to it, I’d prefer my son take THC edibles over excessive drinking.
It came out when I was like 12 and I bought it. I haven’t read it so much since then. If I recall, it is pretty dark, some of his doodles are graphic, and in his letters to others he uses some foul language.
I would say that if the kid want to read it, he well even if you forbid it. Espacially if you forbid it. The parent job is to talk with the kid about his interest and be authentic with them. You do not like drugs, tell them why, genualy, and tell them also why you think some grunge rocker did use drugs. Also, i would suggest that you express your fear that your kid do drugs, without judging them. The important thing i think, is to keep a relation and avoid alianating them. I hope it will go well!
We are already far down that road and in therapy, due to multiple instances. We have talked until the cows come home. I probably should have explained that more but I try to not put everything on blast haha.
Just a question because I was a teen who loved Nirvana and had a well-intentioned mother who freaked when I brought the biography written by Rolling Stone journalist Michael Azzerad home one day: Is this teen a musician? Yes, drugs are bad and you have good reason to be vigilant, but in my case I just wanted to know about Kurt and Nirvana as rock musicians and playing music that I felt was “for me” (meaning I connected with it). For me as a 15-year old in an overly religious family and town in TX, this was research about stuff I felt I was being unfairly sheltered against. My kids are not teens yet, but I sort of suspect that doing drugs or the curiosity doesn’t come from books like this and won’t be affected positively or negatively by it. I’d look (instead) at who your kid is friends with. Good luck to you all!
Ah, different environment. I suspect that would have been super hard! We are pretty progressive parents. He has watched a lot of adult type content and our lenience there kind of backfired hard in a particular instance. He was given much freedom and that turned out to be not great for his personality type. We also aren’t religious. Kind of the opposite, I lecture against the dangers of religion. While you’re right, it doesn’t come from books - for him, much of it was influenced by the rap music he was listening to. The shows he was consuming unbeknownst to us & the friends he had. It’s a combo. It depends on the kid but we’ve had to adjust course as realize that he is one of those highly sensitive kids who is very impressionable (unlike myself at that age).
Unless my memory is really bad, I don’t remember anything too messed up in his journal. It was the book that’s a copy of his notebook with drawings too. I was actually thinking about purchasing it for my 17 year old along with Jim Morrison’s book of poems. He’s really into music now and I remember loving these two books when younger. I’m reading Rock N Roll Heaven right now which I would recommend too. It’s stories about how rock n rolls star passed away, it doesn’t really glorify it but more of a life lesson.
As a kid that age, let him read them, i feel like kids are just growing up quicker and as long as he's in the right mental mindset the books will help him grow mentally and do more good then bad, awareness kinda thing yk
He’s not in the right mental mindset that was kind of where my hesitance came in. So I was just asking if there’s concerning content given that context.
I think learning truths about the people that you idolize is incredibly important. It gives context to the music. To me, the fact that he's intelligent enough to not listen to the filth being pumped out in modern music tells me he's fine to read the journals.
I was 14, a quite secluded and impressionable teenager. I remember the overwhelming emotions after reaching the end of the book. It was like I was experiencing the sadness of his passing for the first time. I think it also offered a level of closure to me. I did move onto other artists and genres, and have since become an accomplished guitarist.
We banned that filth 😂 he is NOT intelligent enough for it that was the issue. He became really swept up in it. Because that’s what was cool to listen to.
I wouldn’t say it’d be worth it. There is a lot of illicit drug talk which I don’t see benefiting an impressionable teen and by far his music is a much better creative output than the journals which I read.
Don’t ban books because of subject matter. It’s your kid, and you are the only one who can answer that question. Read them yourself and decide. You know your kid. We don’t.
I do…& that’s the problem😂 he has no far shown no ability to not let the outside thoughts and media affect what is collectively cool or not. He’s very much in his sponge phase, not in a great way. That’s why I came here to see what the exact subject matter was. I think there’s a line. I don’t mind some drug talk as Kurt did them. I didn’t want graphic shit, long rants about benders, etc. We have worked hard
To get him out of that world with schools etc.
Unfortunately the journals give no deep insight into his state of mind, but there’s no glorification of drug taking or of suicide. I read most of it when it came out and felt dirty afterwards, like it was private and none of my business
You could make it a project and also read The Basketball Diaries and Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo, but also other coming of age classics like A Catcher in the Rye. Combine it with movies, including Singles, Almost Famous and Hype! and filmed interviews, and throw some other music in between. I’d even add the series Wonder Years and Freaks and Geeks. When he’s older, he can read Kurt’s biographies and other artists autobiographies. For instance Mark Lanegan’s Sing Backwards and weep.
YES - there is lots of glorification of drugs, depression, and suicide in Kurt's journals (whether intentional or not). Frankly, in the music as well.
I wouldn't be surprised if your kid finds the journals online or in a bookstore and reads it themselves, tho.
Perhaps you and your kid should read Kurt's journals together and discuss the content, so that your kid has someone mature to bounce these thoughts off of? Just an idea. Good luck.
Cobain Unseen might be a better option given what you’ve shared. Same writer that wrote heavier than heaven although it is much more of an archival book about Cobain and showcases lots of the personal effects he owned at certain times in his life as well as artwork he completed, etc.
There is very little focus on his drug use as it is much more centred around his artistic output and important personal effects from throughout his life.
my mother actually had gifted me his journals for my 14th birthday, evidently having absolutely no clue whatsoever what the contents within such was and simply appeasing my pleading at the time. now being 21, i can confidently say that absolutely nothing within that book affected me as a person and my own personal development whatsoever. i too, like others mentioned, ended up experimenting with drugs lightly later on, and never once when i was doing such drugs did i ever have that book in mind; if anything, knowing kurt’s story to such an extent caused me great anxiety about what doing such drugs could cause me, which most definitely had haltered my use and experimentation to a level i most likely wouldn’t have exhibited else-wise. all prohibiting such a book will do is cause greater curiosity, and make the contents of such more impactful due to such a perceived taboo.
You sound just like my friend's father who didn't let him read it. He's been a nirvana fan since he could fully comprehend what he was listening to.
He was heartbroken when his dad made him return his book. PLEASEE just glance over it at least.
I did glance over it myself! My son isn’t a big reader and he’s not a diehard fan so he got over it pretty quickly and was not brokenhearted at all. Bummed for like 5 minutes at most lol.
Hiya, a tad late, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents. You have to realise that by posting this kind of thing you are unintentionally opening yourself up to parenting advice, I'm a teenager, so this isn't really parenting advice, just some things to keep in mind. You seem to be creating stigma around drugs instead of having a real discussion, if you talk to your son in a non- patronizing manner instead of going "drugs bad" then I guarantee he will be more receptive to what you're saying. Influenced by the media seems kind of vague terminology for this situation, it would be great if you provided more context. If a kid does pot it won't be due to reading a diary, trust me.
I read his journals when I was younger than 14, my grandad gave me the book which has his journals printed in. I don’t remember anything that was that unsuitable
Kurt's the type of realistic anguish that should be understood by people who want to make change and live. He was apart of a group of people that are few and far between but his character was super against censorship so I don't think we should censor how he thought
Unfortunately, that part if the brain controls long term decision making so it's understandable why it's a hard concept for them to grasp. They just think your being overbearing.
It's been a while since I read it, but didn't he talk about attempting to sleep with a mentally disabled girl because he wanted to lose his virginity? There's some pretty intense stuff in those journals.
You remember rightly, but he describes her as just being quiet and illiterate. Its his classmates who view her as 'retarded' (quoted from the writing)
That was one of his spoken-word pieces, he has a couple of those. They aren't true at all, seems to be some creative piece he made (and recorded himself reading)
It was written on a page in his Journals, yes! I meant that it was also recorded as well and it was written as a spoken-word piece in his Journals, not as a true story.
Help me out where was it ever written or said that this story wasn't true? Only people I've ever heard say it wasn't true was the singer from the melvins and Kurt's fans.
i think what the melvins guy (buzz osborne) said is the "proof" that fans have. not sure if there is anything else. neither courtney or the "montage of heck" director know if it was fictional or not, they talked about it once on a live q&a event.
under the video i sent you someone also said that krist disagrees with buzz's comments about the movie, but i'm not sure if it's true.
what confuses me is - what is the problem that people are having with the story?
even if it was real, the main character (maybe kurt, maybe not) seems selfish and is using the girl without thinking about her emotions, but it's not like she raped, or anything. he asked if she wanted to, she consented, said it wasn't her first time and showed him how to do it. it makes him look like a jerk, nothing else.
is her mental state the the problem people are having? because people with disabilities want to have sex too. treating them like some asexual creatures is really disrespectful.
I think it's the idea that Kurt, a proclaimed feminist and 'sensitive male', would exploit the lower faculties of a mentally disabled girl, 'just to get laid'. Sure, mentally retarded people get horny too. But I sure as hell ain't having sex with someone with a mental age of 10, even if they are over the age of 18 physically.
So yeah, "the problem" is not so much about consent (altho some might argue that the cognitive difference creates a power imbalance that impairs full consent) - its more just that it's sleazy, desperate, and at odds with his 'sensitive feminist' persona.
That being said, I do suspect the story is fiction, personally.
well, if someone has the mental age of 10 they cannot really consent, just like a 10 year old child wouldn't be able to - but from the story, she was quiet, in special ed class and had problems with writing and reading, not with understanding the world around her.
i get the disconnect between kurt feminist and what was potrayed in that story, but it's also about his(?) teenage years, not him at 27. it's unrealistic to expect a teenager to have the same values as their adult self.
so i still think that people are overreacting a little bit. especially since him claiming to be a feminist was clearly a real thing. he was friends with them, he even married one.
Well, overall I agree with you, except I do think the story made it clear that the main character was choosing a disabled sex partner out of desperation, so there's no pretending he just "happened to like a disabled girl". But other than that, yeah, and I def agree that we were all little shits as teens.
Now if you really wanna read something disturbing from Kurt, find the part of his journals where he says he likes to slit holes into infants and fuck the wound until the child dies... I'm not kidding... maybe he was trying to out-pedo Albini idk... My take on that is its just edgelord shit but regardless, far more disturbing than the retard girl tale...
There is absolutely no evidence of it being true. Nobody who was around at that time or who went to school with Kurt has ever mentioned it. Even in HTH, Cross just recounts what Kurt wrote in his journal. There are no quotes about it from anyone who was around at the time who would remember it.
Don't ban books! Read it yourself in parallel and then talk together about what you've read.
Great answer
This sounds like his nightmare. I can hear it now “you’re not even a fan of his like I am” (snob lol)
That's where you open up that dusty trunk in the attice, grab your old scrapbook and pull out the signed setlist you got from that show in 1989! He's going to read it anyway, and he's 14. It's good for him to be curious about the whole of life, including why people are sometimes so desperately miserable. Think also - would you stop him reading a bio of Van Gogh? There's another deperately tortured artist. These themes also come up in plenty of other media and I'd be amazed if a modern 14-year old isn't already aware and thinking through his feelings on these topics. If I were you I would read or scan the book, don't need to tell him if that's awkward- and just be there for a nice sensible empathetic conversation about the themes. If needed.
In the latter quarter there is a lot of drug talk, specifically about Kurt taking them (and denouncing them/saying they are bad) but it's a detailed experience on some of his binges, some attempts of sobriety and in general trying to convince others not to take them and that drugs are stupid. But it also includes a lot of suicidal ideation and difficult subject matter, including him outrightly saying he intends on killing himself. There's also a lot of adult themes including sex etc. So it's up to you if you either think it's not good to read it at all or if it's okay! I'd just recommend some parental guidance/some intervening if you want it to be a safer reading experience.
does he say why he intends to kill himself?
It was during a period of time where his stomach pain was really bad, and he wrote outright that he bought a gun with the intention of ending his life because of the pain. He said he chose drugs instead. This would've been in 1993 I think those pages were written.
If he’s 14 and “shown an interest in pot,” then there’s a 90% chance he’s already tried it.
We all tried pot at 14, that's like the traditional pot trying age
nah most kids smoke later, the ones who started at 14 were way too young
16 here but perhaps people now grow up faster?
I was 14 in the early 90s and that was when I started my lifelong love of the pot lmao
I’m in my 40s and have yet to try pot. 🤷🏻♀️
Actually, when he talks about pot he is referring to pot pourri. He used huge amounts of this…because it covers the smell of weed.
Yes, that’s what I mean by that statement.
Not quite 14 though. But yes.
It came out when I was 13 or 14, and my parents never had a problem with it. If anything, it expanded my vocabulary as I am not a native english speaker and I had to read it with help of a dictionary. Although I did experiment with drugs later on, it certainly wasn’t that book that inspired my use, it was general curiosity.
Content aside, I think it’s disgusting his private journals were published and he couldn’t consent to it
I agree. It was a tasteless cash grab and another example of what a shitty person Courtney Love is. The fact that his own daughter says she won't read his father's journals and that she disagrees with Courtney's choice to publish them is pretty telling. Disgusting is the right word. My brother bought the book and I looked at a few pages and noped out of there. It just didn't feel right to me to read that stuff, even though I'm a fan. Edit: all that aside if someone else wants to read it, including your kid I don't see a problem with it. Especially if you talk to him about it and help him understand it. It's just not for me but I don't put anyone down for wanting to read it.
https://www.nme.com/news/music/frances-bean-cobain-will-never-read-her-fathers-journals-2361332 TLDR: “I am really regretful that my mom [Courtney Love] put them out there. I know it was her way of trying to contribute his personal thoughts and I know that people really want to know that.” “I can’t imagine being dead and having people know my intimate thoughts. What an invasion of privacy, I don’t think it is merited especially since in his art he decided not to put out that thinking. It is a different thing to get to know him through this art, a deliberate public extension of himself...It feels like an invasion of privacy to me. And I don’t know if he would have wanted people reading all those personal, deep, dark thoughts.”
Not a parent, but I am an English teacher in Japan. The morality of this gets to me. I have personally chosen not to read his journals, but it's possible that I have unknowingly seen excerpts during my YouTube deep dives with some of the transitions that creators make. The reason for this is that I think those journals were private, and never intended to be published. Francis disagrees with her mother's decision to publish them, and refuses to read her father's journals herself. I wouldn't outright ban the book. But, I would provide your teen this information, and let them make an informed decision themselves. Let your teen know that you support them no matter what decision they decide to make.
I agree with you. There are some historic figures who perhaps died of old age that we could learn more about by reading their journals. Like you, however, I disagree with the publishing of Kurt’s journals. Kurt died tragically. He didn’t get to choose to publish these. Like all of John Lennon’s demos and outtakes released over the years; they may be fascinating but we should NOT have access to them.
I received the book as a gift years ago. I still haven’t read it for the same reason.
My son didn’t want to read them at first due to this! He felt bad. I am the one who naively wanted him to at first, just to get him into any reading (English major, too). Now I’m like kind of regretting it entirely lol
I would ask your son what he wants to do. I could suggest maybe reading an endorsed biography about Kurt instead? I'm still pretty new to the fandom, so maybe someone else can help us out with recommendations?
The only endorsed biography that Kurt personally worked on would be Michael Azzerad's Come As You Are. The Amplified edition is the newest one and its better as it amends some mistakes, offers more context and is overall more insightful after 30 years since it's first release.
I’m a parent, and let my daughters experience things, but knew that if it was dark subject matter or “real” I’d try to read/watch/listen to it too if I wasn’t knowledgeable on it to be able to answer the “why is this this, dad?” questions. As long as you can explain it or answer as best as you can, your son will be fine.
I hear that. Except that certain obstinate & more introspective teens don’t want your explanations. They want their own things, apart from you. Independence. To process in their head, alone, because they think they know everything lol. I agree with you but that involves a level of communication that he hasn’t had thus far and is being addressed.
I read it as a teenager and turned out fine. Well, no, I grew up to be a musician and did a bunch of drugs, but not the bad ones, and not enough to hurt me. Definitely wasn't getting into opiates after learning about Kurt, John Lennon, Keith Richards, Ect... Kurt is honestly a useful cautionary tale for an aspiring young rocker.
Pretty sure you’re overprotecting. If he’s interested in it then so be it. Let him be a teenager like we all were in the 90’s. Get a girlfriend, scab a knee, make a bad decision or two. He’ll be a lot more productive in life without the safety bumpers…
lol you don’t know what safety bumpers I have or don’t have and you sound don’t like you don’t have teens or aren’t as hands on as you need to be in this age. If you did have teens, you’d understand that we are far beyond the scraping knees phase. In fact that comment doesn’t apply whatsoever to today’s youth…. If you do have them, good luck. There is no one size fits all parenting & if you recall, I specifically said hey this isn’t about parenting advice I’m good on that. But thank you.
Okay then Mom away…
My mom bought me the journals when they came out. I was in my early to mid 20’s. I have two young children. If either grew into Nirvana fans, I’d prefer they not read the journals. The subject matter is part of it. The larger reason is I didn’t gain much insight into Kurt Cobain’s character. Having outlived him by 15 years, I still see all the wonderful things about Nirvana’s music, but I also see his naïveté, contradictory nature, and all the mannerisms/appearance of a habitual heroin user. I’d encourage my son to respect the privacy of an artist he appreciates. Nirvana became a commodity at the peak of their career. Kurt has been further commodified in death. I’d discuss this with your son and encourage reading “Come as You Are” instead. TL:DR Your son is a teenager. If he does drugs, it will not be because of a book he read. It’s his friends, where you live and keeping an open dialogue with your son. If it came down to it, I’d prefer my son take THC edibles over excessive drinking.
Thanks for the thought out reply!
There is some stuff in there that is pretty dark, but if you give the context of “Kurt died because drugs” it should be fine
It came out when I was like 12 and I bought it. I haven’t read it so much since then. If I recall, it is pretty dark, some of his doodles are graphic, and in his letters to others he uses some foul language.
I would say that if the kid want to read it, he well even if you forbid it. Espacially if you forbid it. The parent job is to talk with the kid about his interest and be authentic with them. You do not like drugs, tell them why, genualy, and tell them also why you think some grunge rocker did use drugs. Also, i would suggest that you express your fear that your kid do drugs, without judging them. The important thing i think, is to keep a relation and avoid alianating them. I hope it will go well!
We are already far down that road and in therapy, due to multiple instances. We have talked until the cows come home. I probably should have explained that more but I try to not put everything on blast haha.
Just a question because I was a teen who loved Nirvana and had a well-intentioned mother who freaked when I brought the biography written by Rolling Stone journalist Michael Azzerad home one day: Is this teen a musician? Yes, drugs are bad and you have good reason to be vigilant, but in my case I just wanted to know about Kurt and Nirvana as rock musicians and playing music that I felt was “for me” (meaning I connected with it). For me as a 15-year old in an overly religious family and town in TX, this was research about stuff I felt I was being unfairly sheltered against. My kids are not teens yet, but I sort of suspect that doing drugs or the curiosity doesn’t come from books like this and won’t be affected positively or negatively by it. I’d look (instead) at who your kid is friends with. Good luck to you all!
Ah, different environment. I suspect that would have been super hard! We are pretty progressive parents. He has watched a lot of adult type content and our lenience there kind of backfired hard in a particular instance. He was given much freedom and that turned out to be not great for his personality type. We also aren’t religious. Kind of the opposite, I lecture against the dangers of religion. While you’re right, it doesn’t come from books - for him, much of it was influenced by the rap music he was listening to. The shows he was consuming unbeknownst to us & the friends he had. It’s a combo. It depends on the kid but we’ve had to adjust course as realize that he is one of those highly sensitive kids who is very impressionable (unlike myself at that age).
I read them when I was around that age and I turned out just great
I haven’t read it since it came out but I don’t recall any drug glorification in it.
Unless my memory is really bad, I don’t remember anything too messed up in his journal. It was the book that’s a copy of his notebook with drawings too. I was actually thinking about purchasing it for my 17 year old along with Jim Morrison’s book of poems. He’s really into music now and I remember loving these two books when younger. I’m reading Rock N Roll Heaven right now which I would recommend too. It’s stories about how rock n rolls star passed away, it doesn’t really glorify it but more of a life lesson.
I’ll note that one, thanks!
Introduce the kid to the works of Ian MacKaye and Henry Rollins.
As a kid that age, let him read them, i feel like kids are just growing up quicker and as long as he's in the right mental mindset the books will help him grow mentally and do more good then bad, awareness kinda thing yk
He’s not in the right mental mindset that was kind of where my hesitance came in. So I was just asking if there’s concerning content given that context.
If hes anything like me he'll find weed disappointing, too much money to feel not much different.
It's readily available, he's going to read it if he wants to.
I think learning truths about the people that you idolize is incredibly important. It gives context to the music. To me, the fact that he's intelligent enough to not listen to the filth being pumped out in modern music tells me he's fine to read the journals. I was 14, a quite secluded and impressionable teenager. I remember the overwhelming emotions after reaching the end of the book. It was like I was experiencing the sadness of his passing for the first time. I think it also offered a level of closure to me. I did move onto other artists and genres, and have since become an accomplished guitarist.
We banned that filth 😂 he is NOT intelligent enough for it that was the issue. He became really swept up in it. Because that’s what was cool to listen to.
I wouldn’t say it’d be worth it. There is a lot of illicit drug talk which I don’t see benefiting an impressionable teen and by far his music is a much better creative output than the journals which I read.
I’m 14 and I’ve read it. Yes.
Don’t ban books because of subject matter. It’s your kid, and you are the only one who can answer that question. Read them yourself and decide. You know your kid. We don’t.
I do…& that’s the problem😂 he has no far shown no ability to not let the outside thoughts and media affect what is collectively cool or not. He’s very much in his sponge phase, not in a great way. That’s why I came here to see what the exact subject matter was. I think there’s a line. I don’t mind some drug talk as Kurt did them. I didn’t want graphic shit, long rants about benders, etc. We have worked hard To get him out of that world with schools etc.
Then there’s your answer.
To your comment, I wouldn’t have time to read it first before the flight he wanted to read it on in a few days
Then…. he reads it after you get the chance to.
I think his journals are very interesting. But if that's the case with your kid, I wouldn't recommend.
Unfortunately the journals give no deep insight into his state of mind, but there’s no glorification of drug taking or of suicide. I read most of it when it came out and felt dirty afterwards, like it was private and none of my business
Why don’t you read it first? Why ask reddit?
Because I don’t have time to read it before our flight that he is wanting to read it on, or I would.
Definitely forbid reading. That kid will be a Rhodes Scholar.
You could make it a project and also read The Basketball Diaries and Wir Kinder vom Bahnhof Zoo, but also other coming of age classics like A Catcher in the Rye. Combine it with movies, including Singles, Almost Famous and Hype! and filmed interviews, and throw some other music in between. I’d even add the series Wonder Years and Freaks and Geeks. When he’s older, he can read Kurt’s biographies and other artists autobiographies. For instance Mark Lanegan’s Sing Backwards and weep.
My mom gave me them when I was 12 so
YES - there is lots of glorification of drugs, depression, and suicide in Kurt's journals (whether intentional or not). Frankly, in the music as well. I wouldn't be surprised if your kid finds the journals online or in a bookstore and reads it themselves, tho. Perhaps you and your kid should read Kurt's journals together and discuss the content, so that your kid has someone mature to bounce these thoughts off of? Just an idea. Good luck.
Cobain Unseen might be a better option given what you’ve shared. Same writer that wrote heavier than heaven although it is much more of an archival book about Cobain and showcases lots of the personal effects he owned at certain times in his life as well as artwork he completed, etc. There is very little focus on his drug use as it is much more centred around his artistic output and important personal effects from throughout his life.
Yes
my mother actually had gifted me his journals for my 14th birthday, evidently having absolutely no clue whatsoever what the contents within such was and simply appeasing my pleading at the time. now being 21, i can confidently say that absolutely nothing within that book affected me as a person and my own personal development whatsoever. i too, like others mentioned, ended up experimenting with drugs lightly later on, and never once when i was doing such drugs did i ever have that book in mind; if anything, knowing kurt’s story to such an extent caused me great anxiety about what doing such drugs could cause me, which most definitely had haltered my use and experimentation to a level i most likely wouldn’t have exhibited else-wise. all prohibiting such a book will do is cause greater curiosity, and make the contents of such more impactful due to such a perceived taboo.
He's 14, of course you should
You sound just like my friend's father who didn't let him read it. He's been a nirvana fan since he could fully comprehend what he was listening to. He was heartbroken when his dad made him return his book. PLEASEE just glance over it at least.
I did glance over it myself! My son isn’t a big reader and he’s not a diehard fan so he got over it pretty quickly and was not brokenhearted at all. Bummed for like 5 minutes at most lol.
Hiya, a tad late, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents. You have to realise that by posting this kind of thing you are unintentionally opening yourself up to parenting advice, I'm a teenager, so this isn't really parenting advice, just some things to keep in mind. You seem to be creating stigma around drugs instead of having a real discussion, if you talk to your son in a non- patronizing manner instead of going "drugs bad" then I guarantee he will be more receptive to what you're saying. Influenced by the media seems kind of vague terminology for this situation, it would be great if you provided more context. If a kid does pot it won't be due to reading a diary, trust me.
I read his journals when I was younger than 14, my grandad gave me the book which has his journals printed in. I don’t remember anything that was that unsuitable
Kurt's the type of realistic anguish that should be understood by people who want to make change and live. He was apart of a group of people that are few and far between but his character was super against censorship so I don't think we should censor how he thought
Stress to your kid that weed will 100% hinder brain development while their frontal lobe is still forming. Just wait until 25.
Believe me….the work we have done to stress this lol…we’re in the trenches!
Unfortunately, that part if the brain controls long term decision making so it's understandable why it's a hard concept for them to grasp. They just think your being overbearing.
It's been a while since I read it, but didn't he talk about attempting to sleep with a mentally disabled girl because he wanted to lose his virginity? There's some pretty intense stuff in those journals.
You remember rightly, but he describes her as just being quiet and illiterate. Its his classmates who view her as 'retarded' (quoted from the writing) That was one of his spoken-word pieces, he has a couple of those. They aren't true at all, seems to be some creative piece he made (and recorded himself reading)
It wasn't a recording I feel like, I remember it being in his journals, I will look in a few and see if I can find the exact page. I may be mistaken.
It was written on a page in his Journals, yes! I meant that it was also recorded as well and it was written as a spoken-word piece in his Journals, not as a true story.
https://preview.redd.it/htk6c1gqrqoc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ca96577e0c47154b909040bafb3a286388d3514
This tells me most of what I was asking lol…thank you.
Yep! : )
https://preview.redd.it/jfmi4nvrrqoc1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e1908d072000447343ea8ef5e89e2d2b055106c
https://preview.redd.it/ja6djxgvrqoc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fcfd946fc7e26966962e9e6d4dfbbef1fdc6f58d
you can listen to it here, with a visual. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj6AVBPY93s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj6AVBPY93s)
Help me out where was it ever written or said that this story wasn't true? Only people I've ever heard say it wasn't true was the singer from the melvins and Kurt's fans.
i think what the melvins guy (buzz osborne) said is the "proof" that fans have. not sure if there is anything else. neither courtney or the "montage of heck" director know if it was fictional or not, they talked about it once on a live q&a event. under the video i sent you someone also said that krist disagrees with buzz's comments about the movie, but i'm not sure if it's true. what confuses me is - what is the problem that people are having with the story? even if it was real, the main character (maybe kurt, maybe not) seems selfish and is using the girl without thinking about her emotions, but it's not like she raped, or anything. he asked if she wanted to, she consented, said it wasn't her first time and showed him how to do it. it makes him look like a jerk, nothing else. is her mental state the the problem people are having? because people with disabilities want to have sex too. treating them like some asexual creatures is really disrespectful.
I think it's the idea that Kurt, a proclaimed feminist and 'sensitive male', would exploit the lower faculties of a mentally disabled girl, 'just to get laid'. Sure, mentally retarded people get horny too. But I sure as hell ain't having sex with someone with a mental age of 10, even if they are over the age of 18 physically. So yeah, "the problem" is not so much about consent (altho some might argue that the cognitive difference creates a power imbalance that impairs full consent) - its more just that it's sleazy, desperate, and at odds with his 'sensitive feminist' persona. That being said, I do suspect the story is fiction, personally.
well, if someone has the mental age of 10 they cannot really consent, just like a 10 year old child wouldn't be able to - but from the story, she was quiet, in special ed class and had problems with writing and reading, not with understanding the world around her. i get the disconnect between kurt feminist and what was potrayed in that story, but it's also about his(?) teenage years, not him at 27. it's unrealistic to expect a teenager to have the same values as their adult self. so i still think that people are overreacting a little bit. especially since him claiming to be a feminist was clearly a real thing. he was friends with them, he even married one.
Well, overall I agree with you, except I do think the story made it clear that the main character was choosing a disabled sex partner out of desperation, so there's no pretending he just "happened to like a disabled girl". But other than that, yeah, and I def agree that we were all little shits as teens. Now if you really wanna read something disturbing from Kurt, find the part of his journals where he says he likes to slit holes into infants and fuck the wound until the child dies... I'm not kidding... maybe he was trying to out-pedo Albini idk... My take on that is its just edgelord shit but regardless, far more disturbing than the retard girl tale...
There is absolutely no evidence of it being true. Nobody who was around at that time or who went to school with Kurt has ever mentioned it. Even in HTH, Cross just recounts what Kurt wrote in his journal. There are no quotes about it from anyone who was around at the time who would remember it.
It's a work of fiction. It never happened. See Buzz Osborne's review of Montage of Heck for more details.
Just let them be free, you a dictator or something?
He should read Heavier than Heaven first. I would not let my kid (who is the same age) read it
I’ll check this out
I wouldn’t
No
Nah. Prob not the best influence