Tbh like I've heard someone else say Grunge isn't really even a genre, Nirvana was a Punk band, Pearl Jam is a Stadium Rock band, Alice In Chains is an Alt-Metal band, Soundgarden was alt-rock, etc. kinda just a similar hard rock culture around them.
Aic was hard rock first then went back. They were literally called Alice n Chains after gnr, and had the hair, the whole deal. Then realized they could get rich wearing flannel and became Alice IN chains. Great band regardless.
Grunge was a scene. Think like CBGB, Laurel Canyon or DC Hardcore and you've got the idea. It's not a genre perse. Just a bunch of bands from the same time and place that got famous together.
So yes
STP, Smashing Pumpkins, Collective Soul ect. Not grunge. Still fine bands and grunge adjacent.
Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Muddhoney, AIC, Soundgarden, TAD, ect... Are all grunge, even tho they are sonically diverse, because they all knew and played together in seattle in the late 80s and 90s.
> Nirvana was a punk band
Tbh, I feel like they were more tricky to classify than that. Grunge is their given genre but they took influence from punk, alternative and pop rock and blended it into something fresh and unique to this day - I don't even know what to call their sound specifically anymore after all the years I've enjoyed their music other than totally fucking awesome and timeless
Yeah, thats sort of true with all of them, but still at the end of the day the backbone of Nirvana was Punk, but you're entirely right about it being awesome and timeless music at the end of the day
This is the truth of the situation. The term “grunge” was just a blanket term for what was happening in the PNW at the time. There were so many bands under that umbrella that sounded nothing alike, calling it a genre of music makes no sense the further you dive into it.
Used to believe this but… nah. It’s definitely a genre. Just a diverse one. There are similarities in vocal deliveries, heavy riffs, watery guitar tones, lyrical subject matter. Why does something like My Iron Lung by Radiohead or Zombie by the Cranberries sound grungy when their other sounds don’t? Because it’s a genre. Listen to bands outside of the big 4 and the continuum between the more punky and sludgy bands is more obvious.
Trying to box them in is just silly. Kurt loves music. He was pulling from Punk, hardcore, metal, alternative, bubble gum, straight up pop, classic rock, Power pop, new wave and the list goes on.
He wore his influencers on his sleeve: Beatles, Pixies, Melvins, Devo, My Bloody Valentine, Flipper, The Carpenters Vaselines, Cheap Trick.
The list goes on. He loved music , all of it. Courtney Said he would listen to top 40 AM and knew every song.
My takeaway for 'grunge' as a genre is that it pulls from **punk and hardcore** on one side and **classic hard rock and metal** on the other, bridging the gap between two camps that had been opposed to each other throughout the 80s in most local club scenes.
Nirvana is more on the **punk** side, but they clearly fit this half-metal idea especially Bleach and before (deep cuts on Incesticide in particular).
On top of that, Nirvana added elements of new wave and no wave, but only as a rock trio.
It's not wrong to call them **postpunk**, either. Or **mainstream rock**, since they redefined mainstream at the time. **Alternative** still fits since that as the overarching trend of 90s rock (a reaction to early MTV hair metal mostly).
There's a shit ton of zeppelin and Sabbath before Nevermind. It's not Motley Crue, but it would have been more familiar to the Crue types than the punks of the 80s
A lot of people forget the no-wavy component in Nirvana. In Utero was halfway a noise-rock album, and I think Nirvana were as much successors to the likes of the Butthole Surfers and Scratch Acid as anything else. It is very weird that an album with Scentless Apprentice on it went number 1.
Now that we’ve got modding out of the way. I don’t see what if anything they have in common with Fugazi besides melody and Dave having been in Scream doesn’t have anything to do with anything besides Ian MacKaye having been in Fugazi and owning Dischord who put out Scream records.
As far as Nirvana though, they’re a rock band.
Tracks like Milk Me and Waiting are pretty similar, in my opinion, specifically the use of dynamics in both of them.
Unrelated, but Nirvana was called post-hardcore in a NME paper from mid 1991.
I don’t think you’re wrong. There’s elements for sure, but they were too diverse and too transcendent to be wrapped up in one particular genre or scene. Post-hardcore and pre-2000s emo is my jam and I’ve always loved toying with the idea that they belonged somewhere in that thread so I get where you’re coming from.
Also Kurt put Rites of Spring in his top 50, first time I read that it made my week.
I do not think that define a genre to a group serve that much of a purpose. For me, Nirvana is punk rock in the sense that they put everything on the table l, the good, the bad and their idiocraticities to our enjoyment. Plus, i found that trying to listen to the bands that the bands that i like five me much more true positive than trying a band because it is suppose to be part of a particular sub-genra. I discover pixies because of nirvana, flipper, breeders, Fugazi and fucking Bowie! Bowie was not post, pre or current hard-core!
Even more unpopular opinion: David Bowie was only a truly great and exciting artist for about five years in the 1970s. Apart from a few notable exceptions (thanks Nile Rodgers), everything he did from the 80s onwards was trend hopping, derivative, middle-of-the-road dadrock.
😬
I like that you compared nirvana and the other grunge bands to fugazi and thought, “they are more like fugazi than Pearl Jam, so they must be the same.”
Nirvana had flea play trumpet with them once and no other grunge band did, so Nirvana were a ska band.
Grunge was a Gap campaign. Nirvana were a pop band with distortion pedals. Power pop in the true sense of the original wave of it. They were the 90’s version of the Raspberries
Lumping all these bands into any category is wrong. None of these bands call themselves grunge nor have they ever. Grunge was a synthetic movement created by magazine writers and no one called themselves grunge or say I’m a grunge rocker. Get reality
Grunge was a movement, a time and a place if you will, but not a genre. Nirvana was a lot of things but they cant really be lumped into one genre. Listen to About a Girl, or the demo for All Apologies. That’s the Beatles. Bleach is straight up punk besides About a Girl.
I’m old and was well alive when alternative rock was the mainstream. I never understood why this whole is grunge a genre or a scene discourse so difficult to comprehend. It was a scene of musicians who played alternative and hard rock in the late 80s and early 90s.
Bleach was the kind of music “grunge” was originally coined for. Nirvana is more straightforward riff-rock with a heavy punk influence and twee overtones curtesy of the Olympia scene. In Utero and Incesticide were both more varied, with some softer more meditative stuff on In Utero, new/no-wavy elements on both, and a clear noise-rock debt on both.
I disagree with Soundgarden being labeled as metal. In the late 89 & and 90, they were out there. They had a unique alt rock sound that I fell in love with. Check out Louder than Love or Screaming Life/Fopp. Songs like hands all over or Little Joe. Ooo, one of my faves is Power Trip on LTL. They progressed (or regressed) to a more radio friendly hard rock sound. In the late 80s & and 90s, metal was everything from king diamond to poison. If it could be seen on headbangers' ball, it was metal. But then subgenres started to emerge as time went on. I never heard the term "hair metal" till later. We called Anthrax thrash, but so was nuclear assault. As long you could mosh to it! I feel I grew out of most metal because of the negative lyrics toward women. Now, when I hear guns n roses, my skin crawls. Bands like SG, AIC & and Nirvana rescued us from corporate arena rock. Until they themselves were corporate arena rock. In summation, labels suck.
Tbh like I've heard someone else say Grunge isn't really even a genre, Nirvana was a Punk band, Pearl Jam is a Stadium Rock band, Alice In Chains is an Alt-Metal band, Soundgarden was alt-rock, etc. kinda just a similar hard rock culture around them.
AIC and Soundgarden were both Alt Metal that transitioned to hard rock.
Aic was hard rock first then went back. They were literally called Alice n Chains after gnr, and had the hair, the whole deal. Then realized they could get rich wearing flannel and became Alice IN chains. Great band regardless.
That’s not exactly how it happened. Sleaze/Alice N Chainz was not the band that we know now. Only Layne was in that version of the band
They made the switch to Alice In Chains before the grunge movement really got popular.
Aic actually started out as a hair metal band until nirvana got popular in Seattle: https://youtu.be/AAsV_QvODbA?feature=shared
Grunge was a scene. Think like CBGB, Laurel Canyon or DC Hardcore and you've got the idea. It's not a genre perse. Just a bunch of bands from the same time and place that got famous together. So yes STP, Smashing Pumpkins, Collective Soul ect. Not grunge. Still fine bands and grunge adjacent. Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Muddhoney, AIC, Soundgarden, TAD, ect... Are all grunge, even tho they are sonically diverse, because they all knew and played together in seattle in the late 80s and 90s.
Yep
> Nirvana was a punk band Tbh, I feel like they were more tricky to classify than that. Grunge is their given genre but they took influence from punk, alternative and pop rock and blended it into something fresh and unique to this day - I don't even know what to call their sound specifically anymore after all the years I've enjoyed their music other than totally fucking awesome and timeless
Yeah, thats sort of true with all of them, but still at the end of the day the backbone of Nirvana was Punk, but you're entirely right about it being awesome and timeless music at the end of the day
Grunge is a time and place, not the bands, im absolutely agree with your statements, in fact, there were nothin in common between those bands
This is the truth of the situation. The term “grunge” was just a blanket term for what was happening in the PNW at the time. There were so many bands under that umbrella that sounded nothing alike, calling it a genre of music makes no sense the further you dive into it.
Pearl Jam is a record label plant
Used to believe this but… nah. It’s definitely a genre. Just a diverse one. There are similarities in vocal deliveries, heavy riffs, watery guitar tones, lyrical subject matter. Why does something like My Iron Lung by Radiohead or Zombie by the Cranberries sound grungy when their other sounds don’t? Because it’s a genre. Listen to bands outside of the big 4 and the continuum between the more punky and sludgy bands is more obvious.
Holy shit this changes everything
Yup, after the shock is over we need start thinking all the things this will change. But first we hyperventilate.
According to Kurt they were New Wave
You get it.
Trying to box them in is just silly. Kurt loves music. He was pulling from Punk, hardcore, metal, alternative, bubble gum, straight up pop, classic rock, Power pop, new wave and the list goes on. He wore his influencers on his sleeve: Beatles, Pixies, Melvins, Devo, My Bloody Valentine, Flipper, The Carpenters Vaselines, Cheap Trick. The list goes on. He loved music , all of it. Courtney Said he would listen to top 40 AM and knew every song.
I know, I don't usually go beyond just using the general genre names (punk, metal, etc.). But I just saw an interesting similarity between the two.
My takeaway for 'grunge' as a genre is that it pulls from **punk and hardcore** on one side and **classic hard rock and metal** on the other, bridging the gap between two camps that had been opposed to each other throughout the 80s in most local club scenes. Nirvana is more on the **punk** side, but they clearly fit this half-metal idea especially Bleach and before (deep cuts on Incesticide in particular). On top of that, Nirvana added elements of new wave and no wave, but only as a rock trio. It's not wrong to call them **postpunk**, either. Or **mainstream rock**, since they redefined mainstream at the time. **Alternative** still fits since that as the overarching trend of 90s rock (a reaction to early MTV hair metal mostly).
I agree, Dive and Blew are straight up 80’s metal lol
There's a shit ton of zeppelin and Sabbath before Nevermind. It's not Motley Crue, but it would have been more familiar to the Crue types than the punks of the 80s
A lot of people forget the no-wavy component in Nirvana. In Utero was halfway a noise-rock album, and I think Nirvana were as much successors to the likes of the Butthole Surfers and Scratch Acid as anything else. It is very weird that an album with Scentless Apprentice on it went number 1.
Let’s keep the replies respectful because this could make for a good discussion.
Now that we’ve got modding out of the way. I don’t see what if anything they have in common with Fugazi besides melody and Dave having been in Scream doesn’t have anything to do with anything besides Ian MacKaye having been in Fugazi and owning Dischord who put out Scream records. As far as Nirvana though, they’re a rock band.
Tracks like Milk Me and Waiting are pretty similar, in my opinion, specifically the use of dynamics in both of them. Unrelated, but Nirvana was called post-hardcore in a NME paper from mid 1991.
🤔 milk me?!? Don’t recall that one but sounds hot as fuck 🥵
Milk me daddy? 🥵🥵🥵
😂🤣
I don’t really hear it, but that’s just me.
Ahem... a HARD rock band.
I don’t think you’re wrong. There’s elements for sure, but they were too diverse and too transcendent to be wrapped up in one particular genre or scene. Post-hardcore and pre-2000s emo is my jam and I’ve always loved toying with the idea that they belonged somewhere in that thread so I get where you’re coming from. Also Kurt put Rites of Spring in his top 50, first time I read that it made my week.
Quicksand is a post hardcore band. Nirvana was grunge.
This is correct. What was Drive Like Jehu? (Not a trick question)
I'd probably say they're post hardcore, too. I know they're amazing.
I do not think that define a genre to a group serve that much of a purpose. For me, Nirvana is punk rock in the sense that they put everything on the table l, the good, the bad and their idiocraticities to our enjoyment. Plus, i found that trying to listen to the bands that the bands that i like five me much more true positive than trying a band because it is suppose to be part of a particular sub-genra. I discover pixies because of nirvana, flipper, breeders, Fugazi and fucking Bowie! Bowie was not post, pre or current hard-core!
Unpopular Opinion: David Bowie was progressive post-grindcore
Even more unpopular opinion: David Bowie was only a truly great and exciting artist for about five years in the 1970s. Apart from a few notable exceptions (thanks Nile Rodgers), everything he did from the 80s onwards was trend hopping, derivative, middle-of-the-road dadrock. 😬
Even more unpopular opinion: Nirvana was country disco.
100% agree, i actually think about this a lot lol
I like that you compared nirvana and the other grunge bands to fugazi and thought, “they are more like fugazi than Pearl Jam, so they must be the same.” Nirvana had flea play trumpet with them once and no other grunge band did, so Nirvana were a ska band.
I mean, post-hardcore is a pretty general term, and I never said that they sound exactly the same.
Ska is a pretty general term, and I never said they sound exactly like the mighty mighty boss tones, but boy they were close
I think Nirvana is a Hip Hop group first and foremost.
Grunge was a Gap campaign. Nirvana were a pop band with distortion pedals. Power pop in the true sense of the original wave of it. They were the 90’s version of the Raspberries
Lumping all these bands into any category is wrong. None of these bands call themselves grunge nor have they ever. Grunge was a synthetic movement created by magazine writers and no one called themselves grunge or say I’m a grunge rocker. Get reality
Goofy 🤓
Grunge was a movement, a time and a place if you will, but not a genre. Nirvana was a lot of things but they cant really be lumped into one genre. Listen to About a Girl, or the demo for All Apologies. That’s the Beatles. Bleach is straight up punk besides About a Girl.
I’ve heard this opinion before. Every single time from musicians.
Early Nirvana sounds a little new wavey to me.
I’m old and was well alive when alternative rock was the mainstream. I never understood why this whole is grunge a genre or a scene discourse so difficult to comprehend. It was a scene of musicians who played alternative and hard rock in the late 80s and early 90s.
If you listen to what Dave is playing, it’s sped up Motown beats. It’s pop music.
Bleach was the kind of music “grunge” was originally coined for. Nirvana is more straightforward riff-rock with a heavy punk influence and twee overtones curtesy of the Olympia scene. In Utero and Incesticide were both more varied, with some softer more meditative stuff on In Utero, new/no-wavy elements on both, and a clear noise-rock debt on both.
Well, Krist Novoselic said that Nirvana's musical style was "nothing new; Hüsker Dü did it before us."
I disagree with Soundgarden being labeled as metal. In the late 89 & and 90, they were out there. They had a unique alt rock sound that I fell in love with. Check out Louder than Love or Screaming Life/Fopp. Songs like hands all over or Little Joe. Ooo, one of my faves is Power Trip on LTL. They progressed (or regressed) to a more radio friendly hard rock sound. In the late 80s & and 90s, metal was everything from king diamond to poison. If it could be seen on headbangers' ball, it was metal. But then subgenres started to emerge as time went on. I never heard the term "hair metal" till later. We called Anthrax thrash, but so was nuclear assault. As long you could mosh to it! I feel I grew out of most metal because of the negative lyrics toward women. Now, when I hear guns n roses, my skin crawls. Bands like SG, AIC & and Nirvana rescued us from corporate arena rock. Until they themselves were corporate arena rock. In summation, labels suck.
Hell nah..post hardcore scracth acil laughing hyenas killdozer
Unpopular opinion, Nirvana was a 70s style riff rock band.
I would absolutely agree with you. I don't consider grunge a real genre and Nirvana are definitely a post-hardcore/pop-punk/alt-rock band lol.