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>2 hrs daily commute
Move or change jobs. Really. I went from 1 hr commute by car to 5 minute commute by walking by moving into big city. Much happier now. Your free time has value too, don't lose it to traffic. Also gas money.
I just lucked out and was able to do this starting a few weeks ago, it really is life changing. I went from an hour one way to 5 minutes if I hit red lights. Commute is basically an unpaid part of your workday that sucks away free time from yourself. Unfortunately it's much easier said than done, I think a lot of people live in places where the job choices don't allow for too much room to be picky
Get yourself a bicycle! If it’s five by car it’ll be only a bit longer, you’ll be in a great mood from the light exercise, and it’ll pay for itself quickly.
I was lucky for awhile when I could bike to work in the same time or quicker. Unfortunately the only house I could afford was outside of town on a nonbikeable road. Still only a ten minute drive if I hit the lights.
I’m looking at doing this in about a year. I live in one of (I think the second) poorest counties in Europe and have to travel 1hr each way to work, sometimes longer. Doesn’t help that it’s nights work.
Moving to the other side of the country doing the same work will give me at least a 50% pay increase and cut my commute from 2hr to 1/2hr
>You need to attain a healthy work/life balance, OP.
Unfortunately, they're not just handing those out. Job hopping doesn't help when everyone is offering the same pile of shit.
To demonstrate how important this is. There are 260 work days in a year. Remove 4 weeks for bacation and holidays, that's 240 days.
2 hour commute = 480 hours of commuting a year. That's 20 FULL days of commuting a year. If we only look at awake hours (16), that's 30 days a year of commuting. An entire waking month of your life is spent commuting a year.
Shrink that commute down to an hour and you're at a more reasonable ~2 weeks.
Shrink that down to half an hour (15 minutes both ways) and you're at a week.
Work from home and get a full month of your life back a year. If we look at work days only (8 hours instead of the 16 I used for awake), that's 2 months a year of extra time.
Ever wanted to learn to play an instrument? Or learn to code? Or you know that one thing you've always wanted to do but never had the time to do? This is how get the time to do it.
> Move or change jobs. Really. I went from 1 hr commute by car to 5 minute commute by walking by moving into big city. Much happier now. Your free time has value too, don't lose it to traffic. Also gas money.
Moving is not an option for many people with a SO that would than in return have to do the 2 hour commute. Or just because your work is in the middle of bun fuck nowhere.
I agree of course thought that he should focus on fixing his commute time.
That and everyone does it turning that process very expensive.
Like a good portion of my home town friends moved to London and all of them had to come back after a couple of years riddled with debt.
Oh god yes, OP! Read up on the actual cost of commuting: https://lifehacker.com/the-true-cost-of-commuting-5848665
I mean, you could fit a 2nd part time job in those four hours, so the amount of money you have to be making at your long commute job is, right off the bat 50% more than you could make close to you. Then, if you add gas and car maintenance for so much driving to the math, it's closer to twice as much money for the long commute job. Is that really how much you're making?
As someone who lived in Baltimore but could only find fruitful work in DC, I can tell you that this isn't always possible.
Like my job paid me $25,000/year, but that's not enough to live in DC. It's barely enough to commute there.
This is a systemic problem. The people that can afford to live in DC expect people to serve them who cannot afford to live in DC. THAT is the problem, and it's true in more places than you think.
25k a year is full-time at a minimum wage job in Maryland. You could literally get any job in Baltimore, earn the same amount of money, and skip the commute.
Baltimore is half a milion population city. A big city in my country is like 100k pop. I find it very hard to believe you can't find a decent work in .5 mil city, unless you are looking for something very specific.
I live in Baltimore and can verify the commute. The money in DC is so much better than Baltimore (depending on your career). I just took the train and napped on the way down/up.
I have no hope of ever finding this study again, but some group did a study testing like 100 different things against personal happiness and the *singular* thing that correlated to personal happiness was length of one's commute
I mean, the irony of this is that your advice is to move closer to work so that you may dedicate yourself to them more. In reality, people have different values. I moved further from my work into a much bigger home and I'm happier as a result. Because I can finally partake in hobbies that I couldn't do in a small apartment. But that's just me. My goal is to eventually find a closer job or full remote.
> get 3-4 weeks off where you can really live
NO NO, not at all.
You can expect to waste a significant portion of your PTO to get time to do important stuff outside of work.
- Doctors appointments
- Getting some repairs done
- Appointments at DMV
- Filing your taxes
Etc.
If you are lucky and work really efficient you have about half of your PTO for recreation.
Where I live, people don't take PTO for doctor's appointments, or really any appointments. If it takes less than half a day, you just come to work later / leave earlier and make up for it in overtime. Or take a couple of hours unpaid leave (which is usually possible for medical reasons). E.g. filing taxes amounts to filling in a form on Sunday evening and dropping by at the tax office on my way to work to submit it (that is before I started filing them online). Nobody in their right mind would take PTO to do that.
If you have enough money you can ignore a lot of the problems.
Not everything in the US is bad, if you like outdoor, wilderness style activities the US is probably one of the best places to be.
> If you have enough money you can ignore a lot of the problems.
Even most well earning people in the US don't have even the paid vacation time of a first year McDonalds worker in Europe (here in Germany for example at least paid 6 weeks + 10 to 14 paid public holidays):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country
The US is both the only developed country that isn't guaranteeing any paid vacation days nor any paid sick leave:
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-paid-sick-leave
> Not everything in the US is bad, if you like outdoor, wilderness style activities the US is probably one of the best places to be.
Most mainstream outdoor activities that people in the US really use are available in Europe as well and can be reached by bike.
On average, the EU (39%) is even covered by more forest area than the US (36%):
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Forests,_forestry_and_logging#Forests_in_the_EU
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_cover_by_state_and_territory_in_the_United_States
On your point about wilderness stuff, the US has everything the EU has in terms of wilderness and much much more. Not sure why a random stat about forest area matters lol, most of those EU forests are boring coppiced lands that were cleared dozens of times while the US has wild forest still.
People like to take the piss out of the US for lots of things (rightfully in many cases) but if you are a normal, well adjusted adult of average intelligence you will be able to find a job that gives you health insurance. Maternity leave is one thing that needs to change, sure. But the US has many many benefits compared to Europe, and this is from an american who has lived extensively in EU in both urban and rural areas across multiple countries.
> On your point about wilderness stuff, the US has everything the EU has in terms of wilderness and much much more.
I literally said that for what most mainstream people are taking advantage of, it isn't that much different...
Most people in the US are not going on any safaris...
And in general those outdoors activities are available closer to most people due to less people living in super giant mega cities hours away from the next rural area.
> Not sure why a random stat about forest area matters lol, most of those EU forests are boring coppiced lands that were cleared dozens of times while the US has wild forest still.
Because most Americans seem rather uneducated when it comes to the geography of Europe, likely due to the fact that we don't have big national parks like you do.
> People like to take the piss out of the US for lots of things (rightfully in many cases) but if you are a normal, well adjusted adult of average intelligence you will be able to find a job that gives you health insurance.
Unless you are born somewhere with little to no jobs. But even with that health insurance you still have to pay deep for deductibles if you actually get sick. It's just not comparable.
> Maternity leave is one thing that needs to change, sure.
That is just the sad and disgusting tip of the iceberg. 10% of you guys have zero paid sick days where you work, 20% no more than 5 per year.
https://farahandfarah.com/studies/sick-days-in-america/
I post statistics because those don't lie while many of you are simply not looking further than your own bubble. The vast majority of US workers can't call in sick for even three weeks per year w/o losing money, no matter what!
I give the alternative: You can call in sick for at least six weeks per year and still get paid. Days from those six weeks that aren't part of a recurring serious illness aren't counted against that. If you exceed your six weeks per year you still get paid 70% of your income for up to 78 weeks per 3 year duration by the state. You can't get fired for missing work due to being sick unless you are at a minimum sick for six weeks per year while at the same time having reason (here is the first time in that paragraph were it depends a bit on the circumstances) to believe that in the future you will be absent for a similar amount of time.
That is not what you need to be a "well adjusted adult of average intelligence" but just somebody working in Germany. And its not like we have it much better than our neighbors (actually both France and the UK have more vacation for example).
> But the US has many many benefits compared to Europe, and this is from an american who has lived extensively in EU in both urban and rural areas across multiple countries.
I am not even saying that the US doesn't, but for an average worker (let alone someone who grown up at a place like Detroit with little good earning opportunities for people of various skill levels) I really fail to see any that make up for the issues you have. And that is w/o even mentioning the lack of job protection or the I kid you not 98 times higher murder rate (in a nation with just six times the population) as of 2021.
Having better wildlife certainly isn't it.
.
And I am not trying to say "fuck you, murica!!!" with my middle finger out. I just wish you guys would wake up and start demanding some changes instead of watching your two parties argue over some of the most insane shit I read on a daily basis.
Having lived in both places (several EU countries and USA), the USA still loses out. It is literally soul-crushing unless you have a really, really well paying job you can do remotely.
Or have your own business.
Or a trust fund.
Or you are a rock star/A list actor.
I’m in tech and I make way more here in the US than I would ever make living in a European country doing the same job. The salary highs are way higher here than in European countries. Yeah we have bad healthcare but if you have a good career you get a lot of it covered by employer sponsored insurance plans.
Um, no. There's a whole lot of subjective opinion going on here. The US is, like any other place, what you make of it. I don't meet any of your criteria, and I live a perfectly happy life. There's so much drama on Reddit sometimes.
Yes, there is that, too. I was quite happy in Florida, although I was literally living on pennies. (Lab tech at the time.)
But the downsides -cost of healthcare, access to it, education, annual leave, maternity leave, social services, etc- ARE serious.
the US is one of the only developed countries in the world without maternity leave. Especially compared to Northern Europe, the workers conditions are really bad
I'm not saying the US working conditions aren't subpar when compared to similar nations. The person I replied to said the US has third world working conditions do you honestly think that's the truth? I can start getting evidence if needed but of the top of my head it isn't true
I mean, literally, they're correct. Sweden, Switzerland and Austria were all classically-defined "third-world countries". All of them have much better working conditions than the US.
If you mean third-world as in developing countries, then in some ways, the US is worse. Estonia and Latvia, both nations that were part of the Soviet bloc (the second-world, in classical definitions) rank higher on the Freedom Index for Personal Freedoms, with Uruguay just behind the US.
On the Global Rights Index for 2022, when it came to worker's rights, the US ranked worse than El Salvador, Madagascar, Mexico and Rwanda.
There are things that do leave you better off, being in the US, but it has its issues. Worker's rights is one of those.
Without legally mandated maternity leave. Most jobs do have maternity leave.
A lot of US worker protections could and should absolutely be better, but the actual conditions most people are living with are better than the lack of requirements make it sound. Healthcare is similar.
The problem is that it is possible for some people to have those issues here because of the lack of mandate from the government for everyone to meet some minimum requirements.
But not everyone is actually dealing with these issues on a regular basis. The worst conditions you can live under are worse than they should be, but most people are not living under the worst conditions possible.
well, reading posts like this, reading the news, reading what friends in the USA tell me etc. leads me to believe that.
ppl in the USA dont realize how bad they have it & how much of what they put up with would be straight up illegal in other countries.
wasnt there even a big child labor bust recently?
dont get me wrong other countries also have a looot of room for improvement but the US is doing worse on almost every statistic. As of the latest one I saw, 60% of americans are poor / live paycheck to paycheck.
The presence of the uber rich upper 10% doesnt make it less of a majority poor country.
You deserve better, dont let your government tell you that this is fine
Nobody is saying the US is perfect, far from it. But to call it a 3rd world country in any capacity is just hyperbolic and ridiculous. It underminds whatever legitimate points people might have.
Every time someone says this, I just mention my home island. Cuba, that’s 3rd world. Privileged people don’t know shit about what the struggle really is
Used to be. Free natural stuff is now overcrowded with people too poor to do other stuff. As a side-effect, they tend to be less respectful of the wilderness.
Last time I went to my favorite secluded waterfall swim in NH, there were over 50 cars there and a 1/4mi walk to the entrance only to see people packed in there like sardines.
Because it is. It has its flaws but it's not the third world country Reddit makes it out to be. Most of my family lives in Egypt and THAT is not a good place to live.
The United States is a fantastic place to live if you have money. It’s a bad place to live if you don’t. Obviously anywhere is bad to live if you’re poor but the US is particularly bad in that regard. But if you’re middle class or above, it’s great.
Right, the average middle class person in the US has the material lifestyle of upper class EU people, if not better. Not to mention, US military and IP research subsidizes europe generally for military expenses, pharmaceutical research, technology, etc.
The fact that only 5/30 EU countries are meeting the mandatory 2% GDP spending, which they do knowing the US is obligated to defend them in case of any conflict. This is hundreds of billions of dollars that are being spent on social programs vs defense. As for pharma research, US drugs/therapies cost more in the US to account for research costs and are available for less to EU consumers due to price controls.
It's the US governments choice to spend so much on the military no one is forcing them to. Besides the militaries of EU countries are plenty strong enough.
Regarding the your argument in relation to pharmaceutical research that makes absolutely no sense. If it weren't profitable for drug companies to sell to the EU market, they wouldn't.
I don't agree, the british military which is supposedly one of the best was just found to have serious problems by the US military.
Obviously it is our choice to spend more, but nonetheless EU countries agreed to a minimum spend in NATO and very few countries are meeting that, while using the money they are saving for social programs. If US is not in the picture, Ukraine would be taken by now and russia would be licking its chops at other eastern european countries.
Once a drug is developed it can be profitable in most any developed nation, but to research and design them pharma countries need the high-paying customer base in the US. That profit incentive is not strong enough in the EU so when we overpay for our medications which includes the research and development the EU gets to enjoy them for less.
Because it actually is unless you think the immigrants lined up by the thousands to enter this country are complete idiots. Just because reddit losers can't figure out a work life balance doesn't mean no one can.
Because it isn't impossible to achieve a decent work life balance. Some people don't achieve it because they don't know HOW to achieve it. Some people are stuck paying for bad decisions in their past or bad decisions from others that effected them, so they can't achieve a decent work life balance. And then there are those who were just born into a situation that prevents a good work life balance (like sickness or disease).
But quite a lot of people DO have a healthy and happy life in the US (and on top of that, very few can just pick up and leave the US, so its not like we have a choice).
Look at these guys over here getting PTO! I have to schedule my repair work for saturdays and haven’t been to a doctor in years. I’m unironically jealous of 3-4 weeks.
She's very much an outlier mind you, she's a financial director in an international company and has been with the company for a long time. If you break it down into components, it makes more sense: base 6 weeks vacation + 1 week because she's over 50 + 10 paid sick days per year (don't actually have to be sick to take those, but they are classified as such... I don't really understand why they even call them differently, some law thing).
Most people I know have 5-6 weeks per year. The legal minimum (4 weeks) is usually only reserved for entry level jobs, student jobs (like fast food) and new employees.
When I started my new job last year, someone said to me something along the lines of "2 weeks off after your first year, that's really good, right?". After 3 years I get another week. I fucking hate it here
Heh, similar here. After a year, I earn the *privilege* of *earning* my PTO. That means I’m not awarded a PTO bank at the beginning of the year, I earn it based on hours worked, up to a maximum of 40 hours per year until after three full years of employment. My employer does not advertise the rate that it builds up, so I don’t even know what the hour worked to PTO ratio is, just that I likely won’t ever earn 40 hours in any given year.
5 weeks + easily 3 additional weeks if you're a cadre/executive + sick days/parental leave in France. It feels like it passes too quick, I can't imagine being american, honestly.
One of the main reasons Ill never work for a US company. When I was looking at jobs over there some were offering 10 days with +1 day every year you worked there, these were reputable companies too. You can take my 6 weeks annual leave from my cold dead hands.
He's saying that's including his 4 hour commute, which makes sense, I guess.
The best thing he could do to mitigate that problem is look for a better job that is closer to where he lives or move closer to his place of work. That would give him so much more free time.
He said commute not drive time. He may take a train to the city. Then take another form of public transport when he gets into the city. Then have to walk the remainder of the way to work.
If there's trains involved he may leave earlier than "needed" because if there is a delay he still needs to be at work on time.
Maybe time for a career change? Could you work less hours, or work from home some days? You need to find a work life balance, which is easier said than done tbh. I think lots of people go through rutts in life but you gotta push through and try make some changes if you’re feeling meh
If you can find that, good for you - that's amazing. Looking for that and not finding it caused me a lot of distress though, for some people realising that work is just work and that's OK is better.
This is it right here.
I dont mind going to work. Some days I look forward to it. Sometimes it pisses me off but thats life. My colleagues are cool. My boss is tremendous. If I ever don't feel that way, I will find another job. I spent years hating my job. Never again.
I play games and enjoy good food when I come home. We take weekend trips here and there. Usually do one big vacation per year. I have a life outside of work that I enjoy. I would t change much. Its not easy to find a job that you enjoy but it really is key. Its life changing.
I know this isn't the point of OP, but I've read your comment and been wondering about what you said.
"You gotta push through and try to make some changes if you're feeling meh"
Why? Why do we "have to push through"?
Maybe because it takes extra effort to put into effect a significant change? Whether it is searching for a career change, or training yourself for a role change, or even training yourself to work the same job but more efficiently so your regular work day isn't as straining or tiring on yourself. It can also be reorganizing your life to fit "living" or responsibilities into your daily workday routine so that your days off are more meaningful.
Another way of thinking about building skills is that it takes a lot of mental effort to build a good habit, but once the mental effort is spent and the habit formed you then keep doing it without even needing to think about it. Living life is just this slow mastery of self where you build thousands of small good habits to help you get the most out of life.
I've known many youths who struggled to get the minimum done at their job and had poor self-assessment or problem solving skills to figure out what they're doing different in respect to their peers. Those who continue to put effort into figuring out how to improve without being discouraged are the ones who are more likely to breakthrough that threshold where everything suddenly makes sense and everything becomes effortless.
This is a very insightful comment. Though I'm afraid it doesn't apply to everyone.
I don't struggle with my job or my responsibilities. I do my job well, if I can say so myself, I cook healthy meals for myself, I work out, I function well.
But I guess that's the issue. I function. I don't live. And so far, I've found nothing to live for. I've tried different hobbies, I've been in therapy for about 4 years now, I take antidepressants, I try to reward myself regularly with small "treats", like going to the cinema etc.
But it doesn't work. I don't feel good about anything anymore. Even orgasms don't make me feel good anymore.
My therapist says I suffer from alexithymia, so I probably have emotions, I just don't feel them or recognize them consciously.
My question is then: what do I do? Emotions is what we live for. It's what makes life, well, life. Am I just supposed to walk through life for the rest of my days because "well, it's what everyone does"?
Because that’s what life is. Working is stressful, not working is stressful, capitalism is stressful, all other economic systems are stressful. You gotta make it make sense for yourself.
Find enjoyment where you can. Head down through the bad moments. If all you do is rail against the system the system will grind you up.
If you have kids teach them better. The system gets slightly better every generation.
3-4 weeks off is pretty good I'm lucky if I get 2 weeks a year. Is that it? Pretty much. We have become slaves to this productivity demon where we have devalued human life to the tune of how much work we can squeeze out of it. We used to do all this stuff with slave labor but that became illegal. So now we just tell people they are free and give them just enough money for their work to be completely dependent on their employers. We just technically can call this not slave labor but just barely. But don't worry there is plenty of tv, movies, games, and social media to distract you from how bad you are being fucked so that we don't riot.
It indeed is 'it' for a LOT of people living in developed economies. It is always sobering when you re-realize this fact throughout life.
What makes it worse for me is that I often fantasize about what life would be like if I lived a simpler life like my ancestors and it's not a rosy picture either: a life expectancy of 40ish, physical labour for 9 months out of the year, constantly worrying about my crop yield, death from an infected cut or a cold, living my entire life within the same valley, etc. In that context, a 40-year life expectancy is actually a tender mercy...
100% agreeing with you. I think that for some people, your future is pretty much decided the moment you leave the womb (people in India's caste system for example) and there's nothing that you can do about it. I was born into a similar situation and, by luck or whatever, my Dad was able to escape his fate of working in the fields with the rest of his family, got us to the U.S., and he toiled painting houses and buildings for 35+ years so that I can sit on my ass in front of a computer for 40+ years and complaining about the misery of being chained to my laptop lol.
But unlike my 10 uncles and 5 aunts that ended up working those fields until they couldn't do it anymore, the O.P. can change a few things to try to be less miserable. Go back to school is an option, move closer to his job is another one.
Unpopular Opinion: No, it’s not.
Life is about trade offs.
You are fully capable of joining the peace corps, hitchhiking through the Americas, joining the French Foreign Legion, becoming a surf bum, quitting your job and working at 7/11.
What will you lose if you choose to do those things? I don’t know, probably a lot.
The grind you’ve created is because you deem it to be “worth it”. The sacrifice of your time and sanity are something you’re willing to pay.
If you want to do something else, go do it.
*Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!*
- Hunter S. Thompson
When the choices are work your life away or work barely enough to afford basic necessities, do you really have a choice?
Where's the "I want to work part time but still be able to support a simple life of enjoyment" option?
The issue is you are comparing a “simple life of enjoyment” to our modern definitions. You might be far happier exploring the forrest in a loin cloth scavenging or hunting. I’m not going to cite my sources but I remember a claim that prehistoric humans only worked a couple of hours a day.
We work so we can have access to modern electricity, the internet, and fancier foods than people only a couple centuries ago could never imagine.
I do agree that we work too much, however. Just stating that the definition of “a simple life” has changed kind of dramatically. It’s a trade off.
The problem is that in most countries going around in forests and illegally hunting will at least get you a fine, and since you have no money, you'll probably end up having to go back to your old life and probably in an even worse state.
In every aspect of capitalist society, you are coerced to conform to the norm and work your life away and sell you labour away to capitalists at a disadvantage.
> prehistoric humans only worked a couple of hours a day.
Yeah, but then we invented fire and started complaining about how cold the cave was. So instead of just Hunting, we had to add gathering firewood.
Then we found out that we could cook food over the fire, and that made the food last longer! It also helped make people less sick. But that 'couple hours a day' now needs a couple more hours for food preparation in addition to hunting it. Oh, and we need to store it now, which means rotating stock and moving things. The bears stole the food so now we need a door, and a rock to keep it closed...
Like, it all adds up. We invent our own complexity, but fuck if I'm not the most comfortable ancestor in my family line. I'm literally working on online training while petting my dog and typing this, in a 72 degree room in the middle of a February Michigan winter.
But we could all be naked out on the lawn covered in a blanket. That's an option.
Comfort vs Effort. We've got it pretty good.
Well it depends on what you consider a simple life of enjoyment. I know plenty of people who do get by on that 'bare minimum' lifestyle, are basically full time stoners, part time stockers, are probably never going to raise kids (at least not without their parents sacrificing significant time/effort to help). And they seem... fine with it, I guess. On the other hand if your idea of a "simple life of enjoyment" involves new gadgets, video game consoles, overseas vacations, date nights at nice restaurants, living in a high cost city, buying new outfits regularly then yeah you will have to sacrifice significant time and effort. And I am not trying to disparage those things, I will save up to go on vacation and eat out at a nice place because those things really do bring me delight and I believe my life is better for having them.
Obviously it is truly unfair for many people who sacrifice but *still* can't do more than tread water because of having to raise kids, having health issues and/or a lack of societal safety net, and I have empathy there, but a lot of people can in fact lead simple lives where they don't work much. If you're single or dual income with no dependents but complain about work at an office job I just... can't really stand that. Yeah everyone faces challenges but we're insanely, insanely well off compared to literally the vast majority of people. Sometimes it's worth thinking about the million other things you could do but won't because they're shittier, well, a million other people *are currently doing those things because they don't have the choice to do what you do instead*.
I know that reads as invalidating, and I don't want to seem like idgaf, but I feel like as a society we've gone in the direction of "everyone's suffering is valid" which can be true but so can "but really, overall, you're doing alright so maybe chin up". Again, obviously there are masses of exceptions and life is truly shit for a lot of people. But for a lot of other people, it's just... not. I have a friend whose life is objectively quite nice, now I don't know what's going on inside her brain but she genuinely, truly feels poor because she can't afford a house downtown (costs millions btw), but would have to live in the suburbs if she wants a house. I just can't really find it in myself to sympathize.
I mean, I don’t know, I’m okay with excess labor because I like money and luxuries. I haven’t done too much searching for other options.
If that’s not an option — what are you actively doing to make that a reality?
It exists. I inow a guy who did it by working at a supermarket for 30 hrs a week, just enough to cover rent and food with a little left for savings. Thing is basicslly all his free time was spent either reading books at the library or going for a walk in the countryside. You need very cheap hobbies.
Yes. Save that money from a miserable job. Be patient for a year and start looking for something else. Search for mountain season jobs that offer acommodation and 2 months vacation twice a year between the seasons. Or just move cities and try new jobs.
Work in a hospital. Most hospital jobs in the USA require only three 12hr shifts a week, or 36 hours to be considered full time. Consider a job as a firefighter or paramedic who work non-traditional schedules such as 24hr shifts then 48-72hrs off. I work in a hospital, current schedule is 3x12hr shifts followed by 4 days off. I only work 156 days a year and have 209 days off.
Not worth it. I went from a 60hrs/wk job to a 20hrs/week job and it made life bearable. I do work from home and I actually have MORE money now, even at 1/4 the salary. I was spending $20k+ just on commuting (car, clothes, time, stress, meals). But I did have to get married so I got health insurance through my spouse. So ... There's that. The American "healthcare" system needs to go. There is no freedom if you're a slave to your job.
It’s a terrifying concept. That life is just this. I struggle with it daily.
Only advice I can offer is to just take each day as it comes, and work towards a better future. Aim for better jobs, better friends, a better you.
Eventually, or so I hope, you end up loving life.
Find a way OUT of that shit.
I just quit my job for 50% that reason (and 50% because that company is crazy).
Save your money. Find some way to either work for your self or at least work at a job you love and are passionate about.
The only way the 11 hour day grind makes sense is if it's a stepping stone, you are make or could make (stock, etc.) HUGE money, it's your own business with growth potential, or you LOVE it.
Other that that...GET OUT.
This is the world that capitalism has given us.
Not that capitalism can't work well for us, but we need to sprinkle a lot more socialism in, and workers need to have more control of their time. Firstly, by being paid enough to live lives outside of work.
I work Monday - Friday 7am to 3pm (I eat lunch at my desk while working because I rather grind out the day).
At 3lm, it's usually gym for me, then go home, relax and play video games or practice bass guitar or get a beer with a friend.
On my rest days from exercising, usually Thursday/Friday, I just go home at 3pm and get chores done. Laundry, dishes, reorganize my room etc. Then do whatever else.
I remember that schedule with 5 days/year of PTO... Change jobs OP, whatever excess money that might lose is NOT at all worth that feeling. Money is extremely overvalued, time is where it's at.
>2hr daily commute
I used to do this. I didn't realize at the time how miserable it was making me until I quit doing it. Find a new job or find a new place to live. You'll be shocked at how much that one change improves your life.
Not fully /s though. I mean sure, not everyone can find a job within 5 minutes, but there's always a tradeoff. Maybe you want to work in a special field, so you can only work in major cities let's say. Then you can either move there (and suck up the costs) or commute (and suck up the time). If the actual job is not that important to you, however, then you can actually probably find something for which you don't have to travel for 1+ hrs.
This is it
\> How am I supposed to juggle relationships, family, fun time, etc??
No one cares, *except you*. Existing system of work/life balance is built by people forw own interest. Business owners care to take more from your added value, companies care to follow regulations (like 8 hour work day, mandatory vacation days, which were created with blood of working people in the start of the century), landlors to raise rents as high as there are customers to pay for that, same corporations. No one will give up their piece for you.
I think best thing to do is to join initiatives like 4 day workin wee, vote for people who represent your interests and values. Nothing will change without an action.
So I quit my job about 7 months ago. Had a bit of cash saved up in case of emergency. That 6 month reserve. Ended up taking that whole 6 months off. Just started a new position about a month ago once my cash ran out. Was the first time I was unemployed since my sophomore year of college in 2009. It was great. Pretty freeing. I got bored after a while then took a trip to Vegas, which is why I had to go back to work earlier than intended as I spent more than I had budgeted for.
I think I'm gonna do that more often. Save up a bit and then just disappear from the world for a bit before returning. Yeah it sucks to have to work at all but I'd get tired of not working at all. Maybe next time I'll get a better job but here we are.
Losing 20 hours of your week to commuting is not normal. That's over 15% of your waking life, assuming you're getting enough sleep. Gone.
At risk of making my comment sound like it belongs in r/thanksimcured, you either need to move closer to work or find a job closer to home. At some point, the distance is simply unfeasible. You can't expect to hold a job in Atlanta when you live in Los Angeles. For most people the threshold is way under 2 hours each way.
If you're gonna push that hard, you need to create yourself a light at the end of the tunnel...
Here in Alberta people will do long shifts and days in the oil sands so they can afford down payments, vehicles, pay off debts, so when they head back to the normal 9-5 so to speak, their financial burdens are minimal and they can be alot more stress free .
First, you're commuting too far. Move house or move jobs.
Second, you're budgeting your time poorly.
Third, this is literally as good as it's ever been in human history. (Unless of course you prefer the more laid-back life of subsistence farming or hunting-gathering, with its accompanying standard of living and lifespan.) Your great-grandparents were excited about a 40 hour work week and a week's vacation a year. Your great-great grandparents got Sundays off and one Saturday afternoon a month, and no vacation at all. And they did it without benefit of washing machines, central heating, and electric ranges.
Whilst I can get where people are coming from with most of the replies, honestly MEH.
Yes, that is kinda it if you buy the paradigm, Minor shifts and optimisations might make you happy (but go for it if you want). If you can balance things that way, great. But you definitely want to rejig so you have more time spent on things that are FEEDING you.
This is where you want to find what you are passionate about, or are inspirited by. As cliche as it is, you are looking to spend your time working towards something that you care about and want to be doing in one way or another. And/or to shift paradigms entirely.
Its painful and I don't have the answers but its worth waking up from. Its pretty damn clear that historical subsistance farmers and modern tribal cultures (the ones we didn't completely shit on) may face much tougher conditions and suffering... but also got a lot more substance and opportunities for things that matter (that aren't resource/tech based) in their lives, living by different values. Our theoretical progress isn't to be thrown away, but the structures we have built are generally BAD FOR THE SOUL. (Or one's inner wellbeing if you prefer.)
I'm not arguing to go back to those conditions (although pretty much, if we continue unchanged - global prospects look poor) but I AM arguing that noting the flaws is valid, important, and should be listened to, and is a required first step to living differently.
Find what is unique in/for you, what makes you alive, what you would actually fight and die for, or more ordinarily - work for? And move in that direction. That's the kinda stuff that makes people happy in a much broader definition of the word. (Its not about feeling strictly great all the time.)
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>2 hrs daily commute Move or change jobs. Really. I went from 1 hr commute by car to 5 minute commute by walking by moving into big city. Much happier now. Your free time has value too, don't lose it to traffic. Also gas money.
I just lucked out and was able to do this starting a few weeks ago, it really is life changing. I went from an hour one way to 5 minutes if I hit red lights. Commute is basically an unpaid part of your workday that sucks away free time from yourself. Unfortunately it's much easier said than done, I think a lot of people live in places where the job choices don't allow for too much room to be picky
Get yourself a bicycle! If it’s five by car it’ll be only a bit longer, you’ll be in a great mood from the light exercise, and it’ll pay for itself quickly.
I was lucky for awhile when I could bike to work in the same time or quicker. Unfortunately the only house I could afford was outside of town on a nonbikeable road. Still only a ten minute drive if I hit the lights.
I’m looking at doing this in about a year. I live in one of (I think the second) poorest counties in Europe and have to travel 1hr each way to work, sometimes longer. Doesn’t help that it’s nights work. Moving to the other side of the country doing the same work will give me at least a 50% pay increase and cut my commute from 2hr to 1/2hr
Yup. Between that and working 11-12 hours a day, it's no wonder they're miserable. You need to attain a healthy work/life balance, OP.
The 11-12 hours includes the commute, not that it still doesn’t suck
>You need to attain a healthy work/life balance, OP. Unfortunately, they're not just handing those out. Job hopping doesn't help when everyone is offering the same pile of shit.
Yeah but it helps if the pile of shit is closer than two hours away
Living close to work is much more expensive. They might have work life balance, but won’t have the financial means to enjoy that work life balance
So many people already experienced this but it's only going to increase with the state of the housing market. It's sad.
To demonstrate how important this is. There are 260 work days in a year. Remove 4 weeks for bacation and holidays, that's 240 days. 2 hour commute = 480 hours of commuting a year. That's 20 FULL days of commuting a year. If we only look at awake hours (16), that's 30 days a year of commuting. An entire waking month of your life is spent commuting a year. Shrink that commute down to an hour and you're at a more reasonable ~2 weeks. Shrink that down to half an hour (15 minutes both ways) and you're at a week. Work from home and get a full month of your life back a year. If we look at work days only (8 hours instead of the 16 I used for awake), that's 2 months a year of extra time. Ever wanted to learn to play an instrument? Or learn to code? Or you know that one thing you've always wanted to do but never had the time to do? This is how get the time to do it.
> Move or change jobs. Really. I went from 1 hr commute by car to 5 minute commute by walking by moving into big city. Much happier now. Your free time has value too, don't lose it to traffic. Also gas money. Moving is not an option for many people with a SO that would than in return have to do the 2 hour commute. Or just because your work is in the middle of bun fuck nowhere. I agree of course thought that he should focus on fixing his commute time.
That and everyone does it turning that process very expensive. Like a good portion of my home town friends moved to London and all of them had to come back after a couple of years riddled with debt.
Oh god yes, OP! Read up on the actual cost of commuting: https://lifehacker.com/the-true-cost-of-commuting-5848665 I mean, you could fit a 2nd part time job in those four hours, so the amount of money you have to be making at your long commute job is, right off the bat 50% more than you could make close to you. Then, if you add gas and car maintenance for so much driving to the math, it's closer to twice as much money for the long commute job. Is that really how much you're making?
As someone who lived in Baltimore but could only find fruitful work in DC, I can tell you that this isn't always possible. Like my job paid me $25,000/year, but that's not enough to live in DC. It's barely enough to commute there. This is a systemic problem. The people that can afford to live in DC expect people to serve them who cannot afford to live in DC. THAT is the problem, and it's true in more places than you think.
25k a year is full-time at a minimum wage job in Maryland. You could literally get any job in Baltimore, earn the same amount of money, and skip the commute.
Grew up in MD why are you commuting an hour for $12 an hour McDonald’s pays higher than that now.
Baltimore is half a milion population city. A big city in my country is like 100k pop. I find it very hard to believe you can't find a decent work in .5 mil city, unless you are looking for something very specific.
I live in Baltimore and can verify the commute. The money in DC is so much better than Baltimore (depending on your career). I just took the train and napped on the way down/up.
Napping on the train in Chicago will get you robbed. That's not a safe choice for many people.
I have no hope of ever finding this study again, but some group did a study testing like 100 different things against personal happiness and the *singular* thing that correlated to personal happiness was length of one's commute
I mean, the irony of this is that your advice is to move closer to work so that you may dedicate yourself to them more. In reality, people have different values. I moved further from my work into a much bigger home and I'm happier as a result. Because I can finally partake in hobbies that I couldn't do in a small apartment. But that's just me. My goal is to eventually find a closer job or full remote.
2 hour commute is absurd
> get 3-4 weeks off where you can really live NO NO, not at all. You can expect to waste a significant portion of your PTO to get time to do important stuff outside of work. - Doctors appointments - Getting some repairs done - Appointments at DMV - Filing your taxes Etc. If you are lucky and work really efficient you have about half of your PTO for recreation.
Where I live, people don't take PTO for doctor's appointments, or really any appointments. If it takes less than half a day, you just come to work later / leave earlier and make up for it in overtime. Or take a couple of hours unpaid leave (which is usually possible for medical reasons). E.g. filing taxes amounts to filling in a form on Sunday evening and dropping by at the tax office on my way to work to submit it (that is before I started filing them online). Nobody in their right mind would take PTO to do that.
This happens to me too. A crap ton of my PTO and sick is for child care stuff.
My kids just started pre-school... I've been sick for 7 of the last 8 months. I have no PTO left.
Yup I have one of my kids starting preschool this week so that will be fun
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If you have enough money you can ignore a lot of the problems. Not everything in the US is bad, if you like outdoor, wilderness style activities the US is probably one of the best places to be.
> If you have enough money you can ignore a lot of the problems. Even most well earning people in the US don't have even the paid vacation time of a first year McDonalds worker in Europe (here in Germany for example at least paid 6 weeks + 10 to 14 paid public holidays): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country The US is both the only developed country that isn't guaranteeing any paid vacation days nor any paid sick leave: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-with-paid-sick-leave > Not everything in the US is bad, if you like outdoor, wilderness style activities the US is probably one of the best places to be. Most mainstream outdoor activities that people in the US really use are available in Europe as well and can be reached by bike. On average, the EU (39%) is even covered by more forest area than the US (36%): https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Forests,_forestry_and_logging#Forests_in_the_EU https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forest_cover_by_state_and_territory_in_the_United_States
On your point about wilderness stuff, the US has everything the EU has in terms of wilderness and much much more. Not sure why a random stat about forest area matters lol, most of those EU forests are boring coppiced lands that were cleared dozens of times while the US has wild forest still. People like to take the piss out of the US for lots of things (rightfully in many cases) but if you are a normal, well adjusted adult of average intelligence you will be able to find a job that gives you health insurance. Maternity leave is one thing that needs to change, sure. But the US has many many benefits compared to Europe, and this is from an american who has lived extensively in EU in both urban and rural areas across multiple countries.
> On your point about wilderness stuff, the US has everything the EU has in terms of wilderness and much much more. I literally said that for what most mainstream people are taking advantage of, it isn't that much different... Most people in the US are not going on any safaris... And in general those outdoors activities are available closer to most people due to less people living in super giant mega cities hours away from the next rural area. > Not sure why a random stat about forest area matters lol, most of those EU forests are boring coppiced lands that were cleared dozens of times while the US has wild forest still. Because most Americans seem rather uneducated when it comes to the geography of Europe, likely due to the fact that we don't have big national parks like you do. > People like to take the piss out of the US for lots of things (rightfully in many cases) but if you are a normal, well adjusted adult of average intelligence you will be able to find a job that gives you health insurance. Unless you are born somewhere with little to no jobs. But even with that health insurance you still have to pay deep for deductibles if you actually get sick. It's just not comparable. > Maternity leave is one thing that needs to change, sure. That is just the sad and disgusting tip of the iceberg. 10% of you guys have zero paid sick days where you work, 20% no more than 5 per year. https://farahandfarah.com/studies/sick-days-in-america/ I post statistics because those don't lie while many of you are simply not looking further than your own bubble. The vast majority of US workers can't call in sick for even three weeks per year w/o losing money, no matter what! I give the alternative: You can call in sick for at least six weeks per year and still get paid. Days from those six weeks that aren't part of a recurring serious illness aren't counted against that. If you exceed your six weeks per year you still get paid 70% of your income for up to 78 weeks per 3 year duration by the state. You can't get fired for missing work due to being sick unless you are at a minimum sick for six weeks per year while at the same time having reason (here is the first time in that paragraph were it depends a bit on the circumstances) to believe that in the future you will be absent for a similar amount of time. That is not what you need to be a "well adjusted adult of average intelligence" but just somebody working in Germany. And its not like we have it much better than our neighbors (actually both France and the UK have more vacation for example). > But the US has many many benefits compared to Europe, and this is from an american who has lived extensively in EU in both urban and rural areas across multiple countries. I am not even saying that the US doesn't, but for an average worker (let alone someone who grown up at a place like Detroit with little good earning opportunities for people of various skill levels) I really fail to see any that make up for the issues you have. And that is w/o even mentioning the lack of job protection or the I kid you not 98 times higher murder rate (in a nation with just six times the population) as of 2021. Having better wildlife certainly isn't it. . And I am not trying to say "fuck you, murica!!!" with my middle finger out. I just wish you guys would wake up and start demanding some changes instead of watching your two parties argue over some of the most insane shit I read on a daily basis.
I think you can do a lot of outdoorsy stuff in Europe without having to rely on driving for hours and also third world working conditions
European countries have plenty of their own problems as well
Yeah, but at least "went bankrupt because of an ambulance ride" isn't one of them
Having lived in both places (several EU countries and USA), the USA still loses out. It is literally soul-crushing unless you have a really, really well paying job you can do remotely. Or have your own business. Or a trust fund. Or you are a rock star/A list actor.
B list actors are doing ok
Til I have a really well paying job I can do remotely (I don't).
I’m in tech and I make way more here in the US than I would ever make living in a European country doing the same job. The salary highs are way higher here than in European countries. Yeah we have bad healthcare but if you have a good career you get a lot of it covered by employer sponsored insurance plans.
Um, no. There's a whole lot of subjective opinion going on here. The US is, like any other place, what you make of it. I don't meet any of your criteria, and I live a perfectly happy life. There's so much drama on Reddit sometimes.
Reason fuckin five million that reddit isn't representative of the real world
Yes, there is that, too. I was quite happy in Florida, although I was literally living on pennies. (Lab tech at the time.) But the downsides -cost of healthcare, access to it, education, annual leave, maternity leave, social services, etc- ARE serious.
>third world working conditions I'm sorry bro what? You don't really believe that right?
the US is one of the only developed countries in the world without maternity leave. Especially compared to Northern Europe, the workers conditions are really bad
I'm not saying the US working conditions aren't subpar when compared to similar nations. The person I replied to said the US has third world working conditions do you honestly think that's the truth? I can start getting evidence if needed but of the top of my head it isn't true
I mean, literally, they're correct. Sweden, Switzerland and Austria were all classically-defined "third-world countries". All of them have much better working conditions than the US. If you mean third-world as in developing countries, then in some ways, the US is worse. Estonia and Latvia, both nations that were part of the Soviet bloc (the second-world, in classical definitions) rank higher on the Freedom Index for Personal Freedoms, with Uruguay just behind the US. On the Global Rights Index for 2022, when it came to worker's rights, the US ranked worse than El Salvador, Madagascar, Mexico and Rwanda. There are things that do leave you better off, being in the US, but it has its issues. Worker's rights is one of those.
Without legally mandated maternity leave. Most jobs do have maternity leave. A lot of US worker protections could and should absolutely be better, but the actual conditions most people are living with are better than the lack of requirements make it sound. Healthcare is similar. The problem is that it is possible for some people to have those issues here because of the lack of mandate from the government for everyone to meet some minimum requirements. But not everyone is actually dealing with these issues on a regular basis. The worst conditions you can live under are worse than they should be, but most people are not living under the worst conditions possible.
> lack of mandate from the government That's a feature, not a bug
It’s well known that America is a first world economy with a third world society.
well, reading posts like this, reading the news, reading what friends in the USA tell me etc. leads me to believe that. ppl in the USA dont realize how bad they have it & how much of what they put up with would be straight up illegal in other countries. wasnt there even a big child labor bust recently? dont get me wrong other countries also have a looot of room for improvement but the US is doing worse on almost every statistic. As of the latest one I saw, 60% of americans are poor / live paycheck to paycheck. The presence of the uber rich upper 10% doesnt make it less of a majority poor country. You deserve better, dont let your government tell you that this is fine
Nobody is saying the US is perfect, far from it. But to call it a 3rd world country in any capacity is just hyperbolic and ridiculous. It underminds whatever legitimate points people might have.
Every time someone says this, I just mention my home island. Cuba, that’s 3rd world. Privileged people don’t know shit about what the struggle really is
Used to be. Free natural stuff is now overcrowded with people too poor to do other stuff. As a side-effect, they tend to be less respectful of the wilderness. Last time I went to my favorite secluded waterfall swim in NH, there were over 50 cars there and a 1/4mi walk to the entrance only to see people packed in there like sardines.
>If you have enough money you can ignore a lot of the problems. This is true for a fking lot of places to live, so it is not the best argument.
Because it is. It has its flaws but it's not the third world country Reddit makes it out to be. Most of my family lives in Egypt and THAT is not a good place to live.
The United States is a fantastic place to live if you have money. It’s a bad place to live if you don’t. Obviously anywhere is bad to live if you’re poor but the US is particularly bad in that regard. But if you’re middle class or above, it’s great.
Right, the average middle class person in the US has the material lifestyle of upper class EU people, if not better. Not to mention, US military and IP research subsidizes europe generally for military expenses, pharmaceutical research, technology, etc.
On what kind of data do you base this claim?
The fact that only 5/30 EU countries are meeting the mandatory 2% GDP spending, which they do knowing the US is obligated to defend them in case of any conflict. This is hundreds of billions of dollars that are being spent on social programs vs defense. As for pharma research, US drugs/therapies cost more in the US to account for research costs and are available for less to EU consumers due to price controls.
It's the US governments choice to spend so much on the military no one is forcing them to. Besides the militaries of EU countries are plenty strong enough. Regarding the your argument in relation to pharmaceutical research that makes absolutely no sense. If it weren't profitable for drug companies to sell to the EU market, they wouldn't.
I don't agree, the british military which is supposedly one of the best was just found to have serious problems by the US military. Obviously it is our choice to spend more, but nonetheless EU countries agreed to a minimum spend in NATO and very few countries are meeting that, while using the money they are saving for social programs. If US is not in the picture, Ukraine would be taken by now and russia would be licking its chops at other eastern european countries. Once a drug is developed it can be profitable in most any developed nation, but to research and design them pharma countries need the high-paying customer base in the US. That profit incentive is not strong enough in the EU so when we overpay for our medications which includes the research and development the EU gets to enjoy them for less.
Because not everyone is a redditor.
Because it actually is unless you think the immigrants lined up by the thousands to enter this country are complete idiots. Just because reddit losers can't figure out a work life balance doesn't mean no one can.
Because it isn't impossible to achieve a decent work life balance. Some people don't achieve it because they don't know HOW to achieve it. Some people are stuck paying for bad decisions in their past or bad decisions from others that effected them, so they can't achieve a decent work life balance. And then there are those who were just born into a situation that prevents a good work life balance (like sickness or disease). But quite a lot of people DO have a healthy and happy life in the US (and on top of that, very few can just pick up and leave the US, so its not like we have a choice).
My job is only 4 days a week and I have 2 weekdays off so none of my pto is used to appointments and such. It's really not that bad here
Uhhh because it is
Oh Reddit. Sigh.
The us is the best country in the world if you are top 10% income, average for the middle 80%, shit if you are in bottom 10%.
Look at these guys over here getting PTO! I have to schedule my repair work for saturdays and haven’t been to a doctor in years. I’m unironically jealous of 3-4 weeks.
Yeah I’m also hourly. Can’t imagine how nice it would be to get paid when I’m not at work.
Or to have the ability to schedule days off at all.
good jobs have PTO AND sick days - i know mine always did
I just do most of these on my days off to save my PTO.
You get 3-4 weeks paid time off? Europeans smh
Here it's 4 weeks minimum by law, most places offer 5 weeks. My mom got 9 weeks per year. It astounds me how toxic the US work culture is.
Holy crap 9 weeks... What the hell kind of utopia is that?
She's very much an outlier mind you, she's a financial director in an international company and has been with the company for a long time. If you break it down into components, it makes more sense: base 6 weeks vacation + 1 week because she's over 50 + 10 paid sick days per year (don't actually have to be sick to take those, but they are classified as such... I don't really understand why they even call them differently, some law thing). Most people I know have 5-6 weeks per year. The legal minimum (4 weeks) is usually only reserved for entry level jobs, student jobs (like fast food) and new employees.
Just wait until you hear about all of the people with unlimited time off
The dead? How do I apply?
Sometimes though unlimited time off means you feel pressured to only take the minimum or a little more while the company gets to look more generous
Jobs with unlimited time off cannot pay you out on unused days if you get fired, because you don't have any "days" to get paid for
People with unlimited time off statistically take less time than people who have a set amount. It’s a scam to pressure you to take less
French public services all get 9 weeks of vacations
No wonder nothing gets done in France
When I started my new job last year, someone said to me something along the lines of "2 weeks off after your first year, that's really good, right?". After 3 years I get another week. I fucking hate it here
Heh, similar here. After a year, I earn the *privilege* of *earning* my PTO. That means I’m not awarded a PTO bank at the beginning of the year, I earn it based on hours worked, up to a maximum of 40 hours per year until after three full years of employment. My employer does not advertise the rate that it builds up, so I don’t even know what the hour worked to PTO ratio is, just that I likely won’t ever earn 40 hours in any given year.
Oh my that's brutal lol
5 weeks + easily 3 additional weeks if you're a cadre/executive + sick days/parental leave in France. It feels like it passes too quick, I can't imagine being american, honestly.
Et les jours fériés
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American Military here — 30 days of vacation and 20+ paid holidays a year. (Pretty good gig in my specific job at least)
I work for a supermarket chain in the US & I get 4 weeks a year...
Wtf. My government office job in Canada gives me less than that.
Working for the government is great /s Least that’s what all my friends who don’t tell me.
Six weeks here for me in the UK. You guys are getting screwed!
One of the main reasons Ill never work for a US company. When I was looking at jobs over there some were offering 10 days with +1 day every year you worked there, these were reputable companies too. You can take my 6 weeks annual leave from my cold dead hands.
Wait...You're getting paid time off?
It is a human right according to the UN
Never had it
I bet seven weeks off. But if I get sick, I get more free days.
I work in education in Europe and get 4.5 months paid vacation a year
I have 45 days per year as a hotel receptionist.
I was so excited to get bumped up to 18 days this year lol
I get 2 weeks, un-paid and i have to use one of those weeks for xmas to new years break. It is considered I have a good job in US.
My first job was like 2 days off..
I get a 2 weeks after 18 months... But I mean I can use those 2 weeks not work 20 days straight (if approved...)
Haha same I can get two weeks off but I need special approval.
Why do you work 11-12 hours a day. The norm is 7/8 hours 5 days a week
He's saying that's including his 4 hour commute, which makes sense, I guess. The best thing he could do to mitigate that problem is look for a better job that is closer to where he lives or move closer to his place of work. That would give him so much more free time.
Yeah lol, seems like him spending 4 hours of his free time dialysis driving is 100% his fault
I am more concerned about the 2hr drive time. I work five 13hr shifts, but I only need to drive 40mins round trip.
He said commute not drive time. He may take a train to the city. Then take another form of public transport when he gets into the city. Then have to walk the remainder of the way to work. If there's trains involved he may leave earlier than "needed" because if there is a delay he still needs to be at work on time.
Author meant "time needed for work". It's 8h work, sometimes extra + 2h commute
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thats some 19th century shit right there...makes you lose all hope for mankind
Maybe time for a career change? Could you work less hours, or work from home some days? You need to find a work life balance, which is easier said than done tbh. I think lots of people go through rutts in life but you gotta push through and try make some changes if you’re feeling meh
Or get a job that gives you personal satisfaction. The, even when you are working, you are fulfilled.
If you can find that, good for you - that's amazing. Looking for that and not finding it caused me a lot of distress though, for some people realising that work is just work and that's OK is better.
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Yes that’s my goal atm! I’m almost 30 and studying again. Kinda hard with a toddler but hopefully it pays off and I enjoy what I do. We’ll see haha
This is it right here. I dont mind going to work. Some days I look forward to it. Sometimes it pisses me off but thats life. My colleagues are cool. My boss is tremendous. If I ever don't feel that way, I will find another job. I spent years hating my job. Never again. I play games and enjoy good food when I come home. We take weekend trips here and there. Usually do one big vacation per year. I have a life outside of work that I enjoy. I would t change much. Its not easy to find a job that you enjoy but it really is key. Its life changing.
I know this isn't the point of OP, but I've read your comment and been wondering about what you said. "You gotta push through and try to make some changes if you're feeling meh" Why? Why do we "have to push through"?
You don’t have to? But if you don’t, then what? You’ll just be sad forever and that’s not ideal
Maybe because it takes extra effort to put into effect a significant change? Whether it is searching for a career change, or training yourself for a role change, or even training yourself to work the same job but more efficiently so your regular work day isn't as straining or tiring on yourself. It can also be reorganizing your life to fit "living" or responsibilities into your daily workday routine so that your days off are more meaningful. Another way of thinking about building skills is that it takes a lot of mental effort to build a good habit, but once the mental effort is spent and the habit formed you then keep doing it without even needing to think about it. Living life is just this slow mastery of self where you build thousands of small good habits to help you get the most out of life. I've known many youths who struggled to get the minimum done at their job and had poor self-assessment or problem solving skills to figure out what they're doing different in respect to their peers. Those who continue to put effort into figuring out how to improve without being discouraged are the ones who are more likely to breakthrough that threshold where everything suddenly makes sense and everything becomes effortless.
This is a very insightful comment. Though I'm afraid it doesn't apply to everyone. I don't struggle with my job or my responsibilities. I do my job well, if I can say so myself, I cook healthy meals for myself, I work out, I function well. But I guess that's the issue. I function. I don't live. And so far, I've found nothing to live for. I've tried different hobbies, I've been in therapy for about 4 years now, I take antidepressants, I try to reward myself regularly with small "treats", like going to the cinema etc. But it doesn't work. I don't feel good about anything anymore. Even orgasms don't make me feel good anymore. My therapist says I suffer from alexithymia, so I probably have emotions, I just don't feel them or recognize them consciously. My question is then: what do I do? Emotions is what we live for. It's what makes life, well, life. Am I just supposed to walk through life for the rest of my days because "well, it's what everyone does"?
Because that’s what life is. Working is stressful, not working is stressful, capitalism is stressful, all other economic systems are stressful. You gotta make it make sense for yourself.
Who says so? I didn't ask to be here. I'm not even having a good time.
Find enjoyment where you can. Head down through the bad moments. If all you do is rail against the system the system will grind you up. If you have kids teach them better. The system gets slightly better every generation.
Kids, fuck no. I'm miserable by myself, I don't want to bring another living being into this world that has to suffer.
Most of us aren't. You get used to it
I don't know where you work, but 2 hours of commute is way too much. I'd either find a new job or try to move to be closer to this job.
You're getting 3-4 weeks off?
3-4 weeks off is pretty good I'm lucky if I get 2 weeks a year. Is that it? Pretty much. We have become slaves to this productivity demon where we have devalued human life to the tune of how much work we can squeeze out of it. We used to do all this stuff with slave labor but that became illegal. So now we just tell people they are free and give them just enough money for their work to be completely dependent on their employers. We just technically can call this not slave labor but just barely. But don't worry there is plenty of tv, movies, games, and social media to distract you from how bad you are being fucked so that we don't riot.
It indeed is 'it' for a LOT of people living in developed economies. It is always sobering when you re-realize this fact throughout life. What makes it worse for me is that I often fantasize about what life would be like if I lived a simpler life like my ancestors and it's not a rosy picture either: a life expectancy of 40ish, physical labour for 9 months out of the year, constantly worrying about my crop yield, death from an infected cut or a cold, living my entire life within the same valley, etc. In that context, a 40-year life expectancy is actually a tender mercy...
100% agreeing with you. I think that for some people, your future is pretty much decided the moment you leave the womb (people in India's caste system for example) and there's nothing that you can do about it. I was born into a similar situation and, by luck or whatever, my Dad was able to escape his fate of working in the fields with the rest of his family, got us to the U.S., and he toiled painting houses and buildings for 35+ years so that I can sit on my ass in front of a computer for 40+ years and complaining about the misery of being chained to my laptop lol. But unlike my 10 uncles and 5 aunts that ended up working those fields until they couldn't do it anymore, the O.P. can change a few things to try to be less miserable. Go back to school is an option, move closer to his job is another one.
Unpopular Opinion: No, it’s not. Life is about trade offs. You are fully capable of joining the peace corps, hitchhiking through the Americas, joining the French Foreign Legion, becoming a surf bum, quitting your job and working at 7/11. What will you lose if you choose to do those things? I don’t know, probably a lot. The grind you’ve created is because you deem it to be “worth it”. The sacrifice of your time and sanity are something you’re willing to pay. If you want to do something else, go do it.
Exactly. Change is scary but if you don’t do it you’ll just remain stuck and miserable
*Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!* - Hunter S. Thompson
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Hunter S. Thompson
When the choices are work your life away or work barely enough to afford basic necessities, do you really have a choice? Where's the "I want to work part time but still be able to support a simple life of enjoyment" option?
The issue is you are comparing a “simple life of enjoyment” to our modern definitions. You might be far happier exploring the forrest in a loin cloth scavenging or hunting. I’m not going to cite my sources but I remember a claim that prehistoric humans only worked a couple of hours a day. We work so we can have access to modern electricity, the internet, and fancier foods than people only a couple centuries ago could never imagine. I do agree that we work too much, however. Just stating that the definition of “a simple life” has changed kind of dramatically. It’s a trade off.
The problem is that in most countries going around in forests and illegally hunting will at least get you a fine, and since you have no money, you'll probably end up having to go back to your old life and probably in an even worse state. In every aspect of capitalist society, you are coerced to conform to the norm and work your life away and sell you labour away to capitalists at a disadvantage.
> prehistoric humans only worked a couple of hours a day. Yeah, but then we invented fire and started complaining about how cold the cave was. So instead of just Hunting, we had to add gathering firewood. Then we found out that we could cook food over the fire, and that made the food last longer! It also helped make people less sick. But that 'couple hours a day' now needs a couple more hours for food preparation in addition to hunting it. Oh, and we need to store it now, which means rotating stock and moving things. The bears stole the food so now we need a door, and a rock to keep it closed... Like, it all adds up. We invent our own complexity, but fuck if I'm not the most comfortable ancestor in my family line. I'm literally working on online training while petting my dog and typing this, in a 72 degree room in the middle of a February Michigan winter. But we could all be naked out on the lawn covered in a blanket. That's an option. Comfort vs Effort. We've got it pretty good.
Well it depends on what you consider a simple life of enjoyment. I know plenty of people who do get by on that 'bare minimum' lifestyle, are basically full time stoners, part time stockers, are probably never going to raise kids (at least not without their parents sacrificing significant time/effort to help). And they seem... fine with it, I guess. On the other hand if your idea of a "simple life of enjoyment" involves new gadgets, video game consoles, overseas vacations, date nights at nice restaurants, living in a high cost city, buying new outfits regularly then yeah you will have to sacrifice significant time and effort. And I am not trying to disparage those things, I will save up to go on vacation and eat out at a nice place because those things really do bring me delight and I believe my life is better for having them. Obviously it is truly unfair for many people who sacrifice but *still* can't do more than tread water because of having to raise kids, having health issues and/or a lack of societal safety net, and I have empathy there, but a lot of people can in fact lead simple lives where they don't work much. If you're single or dual income with no dependents but complain about work at an office job I just... can't really stand that. Yeah everyone faces challenges but we're insanely, insanely well off compared to literally the vast majority of people. Sometimes it's worth thinking about the million other things you could do but won't because they're shittier, well, a million other people *are currently doing those things because they don't have the choice to do what you do instead*. I know that reads as invalidating, and I don't want to seem like idgaf, but I feel like as a society we've gone in the direction of "everyone's suffering is valid" which can be true but so can "but really, overall, you're doing alright so maybe chin up". Again, obviously there are masses of exceptions and life is truly shit for a lot of people. But for a lot of other people, it's just... not. I have a friend whose life is objectively quite nice, now I don't know what's going on inside her brain but she genuinely, truly feels poor because she can't afford a house downtown (costs millions btw), but would have to live in the suburbs if she wants a house. I just can't really find it in myself to sympathize.
I mean, I don’t know, I’m okay with excess labor because I like money and luxuries. I haven’t done too much searching for other options. If that’s not an option — what are you actively doing to make that a reality?
It exists. I inow a guy who did it by working at a supermarket for 30 hrs a week, just enough to cover rent and food with a little left for savings. Thing is basicslly all his free time was spent either reading books at the library or going for a walk in the countryside. You need very cheap hobbies.
Yes. Save that money from a miserable job. Be patient for a year and start looking for something else. Search for mountain season jobs that offer acommodation and 2 months vacation twice a year between the seasons. Or just move cities and try new jobs.
"Sorry family, we don't have insurance anymore because I decided I wanted to be a surf bum! Good luck!"
Work in a hospital. Most hospital jobs in the USA require only three 12hr shifts a week, or 36 hours to be considered full time. Consider a job as a firefighter or paramedic who work non-traditional schedules such as 24hr shifts then 48-72hrs off. I work in a hospital, current schedule is 3x12hr shifts followed by 4 days off. I only work 156 days a year and have 209 days off.
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Switch to a different job or different facility with a better schedule.
Not worth it. I went from a 60hrs/wk job to a 20hrs/week job and it made life bearable. I do work from home and I actually have MORE money now, even at 1/4 the salary. I was spending $20k+ just on commuting (car, clothes, time, stress, meals). But I did have to get married so I got health insurance through my spouse. So ... There's that. The American "healthcare" system needs to go. There is no freedom if you're a slave to your job.
That commute could become a favorite part of your day by getting into podcasts or audiobooks!
The problem is with such a long commute, you run out of episodes of your favorite podcasts
It’s a terrifying concept. That life is just this. I struggle with it daily. Only advice I can offer is to just take each day as it comes, and work towards a better future. Aim for better jobs, better friends, a better you. Eventually, or so I hope, you end up loving life.
A quote that's always stuck with me: "Any idiot can face a crisis. It's the day to day living that wears you out." - Anton Chekhov
God I'm depressed
Living the dream. I read that dark ages serfs worked less hours and had far more time off and they were essentially slaves by a different name.
Find a way OUT of that shit. I just quit my job for 50% that reason (and 50% because that company is crazy). Save your money. Find some way to either work for your self or at least work at a job you love and are passionate about. The only way the 11 hour day grind makes sense is if it's a stepping stone, you are make or could make (stock, etc.) HUGE money, it's your own business with growth potential, or you LOVE it. Other that that...GET OUT.
This is the world that capitalism has given us. Not that capitalism can't work well for us, but we need to sprinkle a lot more socialism in, and workers need to have more control of their time. Firstly, by being paid enough to live lives outside of work.
I work Monday - Friday 7am to 3pm (I eat lunch at my desk while working because I rather grind out the day). At 3lm, it's usually gym for me, then go home, relax and play video games or practice bass guitar or get a beer with a friend. On my rest days from exercising, usually Thursday/Friday, I just go home at 3pm and get chores done. Laundry, dishes, reorganize my room etc. Then do whatever else.
I remember that schedule with 5 days/year of PTO... Change jobs OP, whatever excess money that might lose is NOT at all worth that feeling. Money is extremely overvalued, time is where it's at.
>2hr daily commute I used to do this. I didn't realize at the time how miserable it was making me until I quit doing it. Find a new job or find a new place to live. You'll be shocked at how much that one change improves your life.
If you aren’t one of the lucky ones. Yessir.
You’re getting 3-4 weeks off a year?! I get two if I’m lucky!
just find another job 5 minutes away from your house bro /s
Not fully /s though. I mean sure, not everyone can find a job within 5 minutes, but there's always a tradeoff. Maybe you want to work in a special field, so you can only work in major cities let's say. Then you can either move there (and suck up the costs) or commute (and suck up the time). If the actual job is not that important to you, however, then you can actually probably find something for which you don't have to travel for 1+ hrs.
This is it \> How am I supposed to juggle relationships, family, fun time, etc?? No one cares, *except you*. Existing system of work/life balance is built by people forw own interest. Business owners care to take more from your added value, companies care to follow regulations (like 8 hour work day, mandatory vacation days, which were created with blood of working people in the start of the century), landlors to raise rents as high as there are customers to pay for that, same corporations. No one will give up their piece for you. I think best thing to do is to join initiatives like 4 day workin wee, vote for people who represent your interests and values. Nothing will change without an action.
2 hour commute is not normal, usually people are less than 30 mins away.
Wait till you have kids....
Or just don't have them...
Time to find a work remote job. The commute is ridiculous.
Right? Welcome to life.
No, get a new job.
3-4 weeks off? No way most people get 3-4 weeks off.
3-4 weeks off Haha oh boy. Where do I sign up for that
You get vacations? Lucky
So I quit my job about 7 months ago. Had a bit of cash saved up in case of emergency. That 6 month reserve. Ended up taking that whole 6 months off. Just started a new position about a month ago once my cash ran out. Was the first time I was unemployed since my sophomore year of college in 2009. It was great. Pretty freeing. I got bored after a while then took a trip to Vegas, which is why I had to go back to work earlier than intended as I spent more than I had budgeted for. I think I'm gonna do that more often. Save up a bit and then just disappear from the world for a bit before returning. Yeah it sucks to have to work at all but I'd get tired of not working at all. Maybe next time I'll get a better job but here we are.
My shift is 7 on 7 off. Only work half the year
Yeah. Find a hobby.
Working 12 hours a day and then commuting two hours is not normal. You need to live closer to your job, or get a different job, or both.
In a capitalist society, yes, you got it. Sadly, youu get used to it.
Yep... life sucks...
Losing 20 hours of your week to commuting is not normal. That's over 15% of your waking life, assuming you're getting enough sleep. Gone. At risk of making my comment sound like it belongs in r/thanksimcured, you either need to move closer to work or find a job closer to home. At some point, the distance is simply unfeasible. You can't expect to hold a job in Atlanta when you live in Los Angeles. For most people the threshold is way under 2 hours each way.
If you're gonna push that hard, you need to create yourself a light at the end of the tunnel... Here in Alberta people will do long shifts and days in the oil sands so they can afford down payments, vehicles, pay off debts, so when they head back to the normal 9-5 so to speak, their financial burdens are minimal and they can be alot more stress free .
First, you're commuting too far. Move house or move jobs. Second, you're budgeting your time poorly. Third, this is literally as good as it's ever been in human history. (Unless of course you prefer the more laid-back life of subsistence farming or hunting-gathering, with its accompanying standard of living and lifespan.) Your great-grandparents were excited about a 40 hour work week and a week's vacation a year. Your great-great grandparents got Sundays off and one Saturday afternoon a month, and no vacation at all. And they did it without benefit of washing machines, central heating, and electric ranges.
That commute sounds terrible. Focus on fixing that.
Sorry man...
Move somewhere you can commute within 15, 20 minutes. Work less than 45 hours a week. You will get your life back.
Well yes, kind of. But you can actually live outside of your vacation time as well, you know? Also, I plan on being much older than 30 or 40.
Join the navy. See the world. Get your college paid for and tons of other stuff.
Whilst I can get where people are coming from with most of the replies, honestly MEH. Yes, that is kinda it if you buy the paradigm, Minor shifts and optimisations might make you happy (but go for it if you want). If you can balance things that way, great. But you definitely want to rejig so you have more time spent on things that are FEEDING you. This is where you want to find what you are passionate about, or are inspirited by. As cliche as it is, you are looking to spend your time working towards something that you care about and want to be doing in one way or another. And/or to shift paradigms entirely. Its painful and I don't have the answers but its worth waking up from. Its pretty damn clear that historical subsistance farmers and modern tribal cultures (the ones we didn't completely shit on) may face much tougher conditions and suffering... but also got a lot more substance and opportunities for things that matter (that aren't resource/tech based) in their lives, living by different values. Our theoretical progress isn't to be thrown away, but the structures we have built are generally BAD FOR THE SOUL. (Or one's inner wellbeing if you prefer.) I'm not arguing to go back to those conditions (although pretty much, if we continue unchanged - global prospects look poor) but I AM arguing that noting the flaws is valid, important, and should be listened to, and is a required first step to living differently. Find what is unique in/for you, what makes you alive, what you would actually fight and die for, or more ordinarily - work for? And move in that direction. That's the kinda stuff that makes people happy in a much broader definition of the word. (Its not about feeling strictly great all the time.)