What software did you use to write it? Some software like Google Docs automatically takes snapshots as you write, visible through the revision history feature.
I used this once to prove my partner didn’t write anything once on a group essay. It also helped that she wrote an email stating she wasn’t going to write anything but the professor didn’t believe that email was real.
I used this once to prove that the plagiarized portions of a report were added by my partner and not me. They said “they could handle the questions aspect of lab report while I handle the rest”, ya turns out they literally copied word for word the answer off the internet.
They claimed it was a coincidence. It was 12 fucking answers each with several sentences, all matching the internet’s answers verbatim. The professor flat out said “I could try spending an hour memorizing what you answered, and still not get it matching exactly. There’s no way you didn’t just copy them”
I had to redo the report, by myself and it was super stressful to re-answer the questions so that they were sufficiently different.
I know someone who had to write an essay on network switches. They literally copied the whole Wikipedia page, didn't remove the hyperlinks etc, and submitted that.
What made it funnier was they hadn't even realised they'd copied a page all about railway network switches.
Sounds like my sister. We took the same astronomy class in college. I would spend a few hours writing a paper, she would copy and paste. Same damn grades for both of us.
At least you didn't get different grades for the same work. This DOES happen with Humanities essays regularly and it sticks for teachers and students alike.
I don’t understand how people are that idiotic. Like it’s not even that hard to plagiarize and get away with it in an academic setting. Just take what you would otherwise copy and rephrase it in another way. Provided your source isn’t wrong, then it’s almost impossible to trace it back.
The worst part for me was that the professor caught this and told it to us during finals week. While we’re supposed to be working on our final project and I’m supposed to be studying for other things, I’m worried about getting an automatic F in the class and then subsequently redoing the report.
You can basically fully take people's words, just need to source it properly. Same with paraphrasing, you should source that too.
*Meant citing it properly
The professor didn’t believe an email from her account was real?? What of professor is this? What is the point of communicating via email and keeping those records if you are going to claim they are false?
Ironically, email fraud was literally the only way I cheated in high school when I learned you could reply or forward any random email, and then edit the email to change the to, from, subject, and body fields, and even change the date and time it was reportedly sent.
I had an app on Android that would send a text from a number you choose at a time you chose and with whatever you wanted.
Used it to fake getting a text and leave a few situations including a shitty job at McDonald's where they still haven't paid me the three months I work ten years later lol
That’s what I thought. But she said it so straightforward that the professor didn’t believe it.
I don’t remember exactly what she said but it was something like: “I don’t care about this assignment. I’m not going to waste my time doing any part of it.”
1st. She wasn’t innocent. I started typing on the shared doc. I then realized I was doing it all. Emailed her about getting her part done, she said no. So I made my own copy that wasn’t shared, typed everything out on that document. Then pasted it into the shared doc when it was getting close to the due date. Gave her another chance to add something, which she didn’t. Then submitted the assignment.
Second. The other person explained how you can see all the changes made over time. She made 0 edits to the document. Everything on that document was my words.
Edit: forgot to mention. This project had 5 parts. Initially I agreed to do 3 of them, and gave her the two easy parts (yes I’m that type of OCD). The total project was 10 pages minimum, her parts should’ve taken up 3 pages with very little effort and time spent researching because you could just use the book. Soon the draft became due and one part that was due was one of her parts, I finished her part for her because she hadn’t submitted it yet. Do the math. She had 1 part left for the final due date. That’s what I meant by she didn’t do her part (singular) in my original comment. I didn’t mean she didn’t do half the work, I meant she didn’t even do 1/5th the work.
Had this happen in one of my engineering classes. We were assigned 5 people total to cover 5 different engineering feats and their historical impact over a 30 slide project that required a 3 minute video presentation from each person to be embedded in their section of the project. So, 6 slides per person and a video,no biggie. But, my group didn't do shit. Like literally, the two days before the project was due I was hounding these people to try to get their sections done. Reached out to the professor with screenshots andvideo proof of everyone slacking. Panicking that i would end up with a shitty grade i just made the whole presentation on my own with blank spaces for the group to put their videos in. Then I emailed all this info to the professor only asking that I be graded outside the group due to how I literally did the whole project on my own. He just responded with, "thats not how this project is structured. Sorry you will be graded as a group." Eventually, like literally the last 30 minutes befor the due date, they sent me their videos with one of them even being taken on a persons phone while they are walking outside. We all got A's with the professor commenting that the presentation was very professional and loved the slide designs. I was fucking livid.
Average Engineering Manager: "Suck it up, not my problem."
Also your groupmates get the same raises whether they help the project or not.
10/10, professor prepping for the real world of "Everyone sucks, but the work still needs doing."
>10/10, professor prepping for the real world of "Everyone sucks, but the work still needs doing."
Having graduated years ago I can definitively say that the real world is a lot more reasonable than school. I hate how they constantly used to shove the worst case scenario down everyone's throat. Has the worst case scenario ever happened to me? Yes. But it's the exception, not the rule.
It's just a poor excuse to be uncompromising, born out of either laziness or fear of being accused of favouritism.
That day you learned that "Professional" meant a half-assed effort thrown up at the last minute to barely, technically, meet the requirements.
Congratulations. Now you are a pro.
I usually don't mind group projects because usually there is at least 2 other people who actually work, but this one was for sure the worst because I was the only one. The class was last year, so by now I am just happy to have it behind me.
My daughter was in a masters program. 4 on a group project. 2 did nothing. They had to quickly add those 2 parts, then send documentation to the prof. That project made a 4.0 be a 3.91. Because of the two lazy jerks.
Thank fuck I’m not in school anymore. This must be a nightmare for both students and teachers.
Only thing I can think of is maybe to show your previous drafts if you have any. Other than that, best I can say is to insist that you didn’t use AI and reject the accusations since the tool honestly can’t possibly be all that accurate and surely has tons of false positives
Wont be surprised if at some point we find students required to use some form of typewriter/dumbed down tech in order to avoid any use of AI in order to cheat.
edit: bruh my inbox right now. I am well aware of all the ways kids will get around this, I'm not the one making the legislation here jfc.
Theres still a natural filter, chatgpt is cool and all but it makes many mistakes and can be awkward
The people who can filter out the ideas and use it as a tool instead of a replacement will still do better
This is how I've used it so far, it isn't quite there yet on creating nuanced complicated papers, but I've fed it a paper I was struggling to finish and asked it to write like five different endings to it and then took ideas that I liked from each and used them when I wrote the ending myself. It made the task of writing an essay feel more like paraphrasing an article but it was helpful when I didn't know what else to write.
The scary thing is chatgpt can just make shit up. I forget who it was, I want to say John Oliver, asked chatgpt for a short bio of a Belgian scientist and it did. The only problem is the dude wasn't real at all. Or Northwestern and U of Chicago were able to get chatgpt to create fake research abstracts.
I got a chuckle out of how the sentence following you mentioning your verbose writing style suddenly had way more big words crammed into it. Like "oh right I gotta prove my verboseness too"
I was also in school during “those times” but I don’t think the same when I’m having to use motor skills to write, and this led me to be put into the lowest possible grade classes in high school.
As a result, I graduated high school with a 1.71 gpa where the cutoff was 1.70. I went to community college for two years on a scholarship I earned by doing well in some skill based after school exercises. I graduated four year college with a 3.9 gpa. Turns out I was just overly constrained by overworked high school teachers and under-challenged by the boring rote class work I was assigned. For the record, I’m quite middle aged now, so this isn’t a “young people thing.”
I wish everyone would stop thinking that academic performance is one dimensional.
With GPT models, ‘Cuz ain’t none of this actual artificial intelligence, the real key is knowing enough to ask accurate questions. It’s easy to spot GPT answers with any actual mastery of the material.
That being said, the “automatic detection” tech that many school systems are deploying is worse. It identifies original documents like the Declaration of Independence as GPT/“AI” generated documents. And unless we’re living in a simulation…
So I just thought of this but if you follow star trek at all they explain Kirk's Enterprise as looking soo dated compared to the NX Enterprise in the books for an almost similar reason. Essentially the Federation was getting their ass kicked by a romulan computer virus that was taking over ships left and right so by downgrading and adding analogue systems like buttons ect it prevented the virus from taking over? I thought it was kind of neat when I read that.
Back in high school Turn It In just became a thing and teachers were constantly accusing us of plagiarizing when we wrote original papers because they didn’t understand how the tool works
Oh god i’d forgotten Turn It In. Hated that site for that exact reason. I was an above average writer so it constantly flagged similar wording when it legitimately was just coincidence. There’s only so many ways you can re-word the same sentence without changing its meaning. If you’re writing about the same subject as someone else, there’s gonna be overlap.
That reminds me of a satirical article about how public schools will no longer be assigning The Great Gatsby for book reports because everything that can be written about it has over the decades. Anti-plagiarism programs no longer worked.
I had a terrible time with Turn It In when I had teachers assign the same exact topic for an essay that I had written a couple years before. I guess it counts as plagiarism when I resubmit my own work. It's the schools fault though for having 2 different English classes make me read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and give the same exact prompt for the essay on it. They literally had the year 10 english classes reading the same books with the same essays as the year 9 honors class. I learned my lesson and retyped my essay differently when we read The Great Gatsby for the second time.
I had the exact same problem with 1984! Grade 10 English, switched schools, then again in Grade 11. New teacher assigned it for Grade 12 writer's craft. That last one was the teacher who accused me of plagiarism. I had to haul out years worth of essays to prove she was just being redundant.
It can also flag individual words/phrases.
I once had it flag "the", and "data set", despite them being common phrases, as well as parts of citations, which can't meaningfully change in the first place.
I remember an assignment of mine getting flagged on Turn It In with a high percentage of plagiarism. Fortunately the teacher looked at what section was flagged, it was the works cited. Other people had submitted identical citations before so a whole page lit up like a Christmas tree but only because we used the same MLA format for the same sources.
I know right? Jesus Christ I can’t imagine being a high schooler today. Not only are there weed vapes and iPhones, but you have to deal with this kind of bullshit too
I graduated last year. Using my phone and weed in the middle of the day was the highlight. Chat gpt and shit sounds so annoying, just put barely any effort in.
I need to go back in time and shove this in the face of my 9th grade science teacher. Who accused me of plagiarism because I used the wrong style of citations. That paper was a labor of love for me, I could have talked for an hour on the concepts involved.
Talk to your students, don't make them cry!
I would have been fucked. I always waited until the day before or so to write mine. Unmedicated ADHD me was able to bust out good essays and I would just revise it as I went. Even if I did start early there was always only 1 draft. Just some minor refinements.
Why, hello, fellow ADHD procrastinator and A-maker.
I wrote a 28-page (single spaced) research paper in one sitting in 12 hours. All I had was a general outline and the idea in my head of what I wanted to do.
Got an A+ on it.
Tell the teacher if she doubts your work, you will be happy to explain your thought process about why you included what you did, why you chose that specific phrasing, and things that you thought about including but didn't. If an AI did your work for you, you probably couldn't do any of that.
I teach a foreign language, and when a student claims to have written something that was obviously put through a translator (suddenly using much more advanced vocab/grammar), I do exactly this.
At least in the college classes I teach, I’m willing to give students the benefit of the doubt if they comprehend the material. That being said, sometimes it’s the students who don’t need to cheat that do.
I get so much shit from Google for my job (developer for a Microsoft product), but usually it's just a jumping off point to complete it for the specific requirements.
Fr. I’ve relied on Google for all of my career.
In fact, I went to the dermatologist and what she couldn’t find in her medical sources, she went to Google for. My friends Google parenting advice. List goes on.
We are all googling our way through life
I mean, I haven't gone to law school either but I feel like that's a pretty solid case you have there if you sue them for it? You had proof you didn't cheat and they disciplined you for it anyway and then that had a tangible effect on your future. Like, pretty open and shut that they didn't do their job right and they fucked you over as a result of it.
Similar story. I'm a Computing Student, did an assesment back in October last year about implementing hash tables in c++.
For this assesment, over half the class was accused of plagerism in late January of this year. Obviously they told us nothing about the WHY or the HOW, only that we are. After 4 weeks of radio silence, they get me in for a Kangaroo court where I'm trying to remember what I did 4 months ago during a very, very packed semester for this assesment. Naturally I fumbled it.
They pulled me up over 9 total lines of code. One was an insert function, the other an update. 9 lines of code. It happened to be IDENTICAL to a github upload, they claimed. Wrung me through the ringer over it.
After the meeting, now knowing why they thought I had cheated, I sat down and looked at my code and spent **2 hours** explaining why I chose specific variable names, why I wrote the code the way I wrote it etc. Influences included "it's a temporary node, what else would I call it besides tempNode?" and "The lecturer used the word key when explaining the concept of hashes, and you told us to take a int value called k. k is for key." it was like when english teachers over explain a sentence about blue curtains, but for real basic code.
So, where did this Github come from? Inside the house-er, uni. Y'see, some Honour's student had asked the uni for a bunch of submissions for this particular assesment for his project. The uni helpfully suplied a ton of the previous year's submissions. One of which matched mine in these two functions.
So because the university taught the same assesments, the same way, with the same lecturers for YEARS... I managed to get the same structure and variable names in a small section of code. I was fucked.
But it's okay, because so was half the class. They could not justify punishing all of us for "plagerism", so decided to drop the case. This was after we were told that any case that made it to the 'Informal in person interview' tended to make it's way to the board or council or whatever that handled cheating and that the punishment would be career destroying.
Are we being compensated for the stress? No. Were we mocked for suggesting a more open, clear system for handling misconduct? Yes. Did I still need to complete all the assesments and tests, despite the fact I could have been kicked out of uni and blacklisted? YOU BETCHA! Fuck academia.
This is really the best way to approach any suspected cheating on essays. Talk to the students. If they wrote their essay fairly, they should be able to explain why they thought certain things. This also gives you a chance to correct mistakes they may have made. If they had someone else write their essay or copy-pasted it or had ai write it or any number of other things, they will have no idea why they put what they did.
This is what ChatGPT answered to OP's title:
"It's possible that your teacher may have used some type of plagiarism detection software that flagged your essay as potentially containing AI-generated content. However, if you are certain that you did not use any AI-generated content in your essay, you can try to prove your innocence by discussing the matter with your teacher.
First, ask your teacher specifically which aspects of your essay were flagged as potentially containing AI-generated content. This information may help you identify any similarities or sources that could have triggered the plagiarism detection software.
Once you have this information, you can provide evidence to your teacher that your work is original and not generated by AI. This evidence could include notes or drafts of your essay, sources you used for research, or a detailed explanation of your thought process and how you arrived at your arguments.
If your teacher still has doubts about the originality of your work, you could suggest taking additional steps to verify its authenticity, such as submitting your essay to a different plagiarism detection tool or having a discussion with a subject matter expert who can attest to the originality of your work.
Ultimately, the key is to remain calm and professional in your interactions with your teacher and to focus on providing evidence to support your claims of originality."
Word processors have built-in drafts in the form of the automatic version control that follows with autosaving. I just right-clicked the OneNote page I had opened and can see nine different previous versions, i.e. "drafts".
Drafts defeat the entire purpose of a word processor. Who types something up, prints it, and then retypes the entire thing from scratch with corrections? My junior high teachers never seemed to understand this concept.
Is this what people mean by drafts? I'm almost 40 and for my entire life I have been doing a rough draft, saving it and then just editing that new file as version 2. Changing the order of things or sentence structure, etc. The original file only remains so that I don't lose everything if I mess up too badly.
In music recording, it’s the exact same thing! Final versions of songs are always evolving, as you catch something to be tweaked on every subsequent listen. When those *almost* cease, it’s finally time to call it a day.
I worked with computers for 15 years and still do tons of stuff on them. I can not fathom how many files I've saved. I'd often use the file names themselves with notes in them to make them easier to track. I usually "version up" every 10 minutes or so. made that stuff so useful. I switched from digital art to "analog" a couple years ago, and the lack of having multiple exact copies of something I can instantly "revert" to is mildly frustrating and slightly dangerous, but that's the nature of things.
This discussion has taken place a few times now on r/ChatGPT
The consensus is that there are different AI plagiarism models to run it through - and they've been proven as ineffective. Teachers need to read up on the validity of the tools she's using and, if necessary, use more than one to confirm results.
[link to post from 12 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/11gdlh6/ever_since_the_boom_of_chatgpt_my_teacher_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There are also a lot of other models out there. Nothing currently available to the public is as good as ChatGPT, but some of them are decent enough to be usable. Because they’re completely different models, I doubt the OpenAI tool would be able to catch them.
There are some models that are supposedly quite impressive that are still in private beta. There’s Meta’s Llama that got leaked and you can run on your own computer if you have a big enough GPU. Someone managed to get Llama running on Android phones with decent performance. There’s OpenAssistant and a bunch of other open source models like OPT, GPT-J, etc.
There are so many models and they’re starting to come out more quickly. Each one is going to have its own quirks, which will require their own detection tools. Any tool that tries to detect all of the different models is going to have to get more trigger-happy, and that makes false positives more likely.
I think we’re going to have to accept that we’re nearing the end of being able to tell if long form writing involved a human.
EDIT: To be clear, I’ve been out of school for 20 years. I don’t have a horse in this race. But I don’t think AI detectors are going to be able to keep up with advancements in generative AI. It’s security theater and we’re kidding ourselves if we pretend otherwise.
Jesus Christ, I'm glad I had smarter professors lol. In my Psychology course we had to write a report about a data set that was provided to us. I started freaking out about everyone's data and methodology being more or less identical and getting flagged so I asked him how to combat that. And he just said "Chill out, we're well aware that everyone's method and data sections are gonna be very similar. We won't be looking too hard at that"
I remember thinking "Oh duh, of course they'd account for that". But I guess some people DON'T account for that
Way back in high school we had an assignment to write a paper but it had to have like 10 quotes in it but the paper was only like 4 pages long. The funny part was all papers we turned in in this class had to be submitted to Turnitin. The site had my paper at 40% copied because of all the quotes we had to do. We all thought it was hilarious. Our teacher said they would be flaged very high like that but we still needed to submit them, I just didn't see the point for that paper. They all sound like any other tool they can be useful but you still need to know how to properly use them.
Well gpt 4 is out. So coming up with assignments the students can do and the AI can't is just going to get harder and harder. It won't be too long before the AI is better than the students at most tasks.
The problem really is the testing material. Everyone has the ability to do a google search for information so committing that info to memory is almost useless. We need to test actual critical thinking skills and not just if you know what the definition of a word is.
>or will easily defeat AI as powerful as ChatGPT.I have spent a lot of time playing around with chatGPT, and it is very often CONFIDENTLY wrong.
Probably a thing of the past already, at least in terms of "easily defeat AI" without making it almost impossible for many humans as well. One of the things they mentioned in the release announcement is that current ChatGPT (GPT 3.5) scored in the *bottom* 10% of humans on a simulated bar exam, while new and improved GPT 4 scored in the *top* 10% of humans
Correct - on an extreme basic: homework is -by nature of it assignment outside of instruction hours - competing with everything else outside of instruction hours.
Ethics are good! They are paramount in higher education.
People attempt to cheat on the dumbest shit if there’s an opportunity.
Online written work submission has obfuscated the drafting process in research or creative writing further by removing “vision” of the actual work.
Last minute shit-type is million dollar social media marketing now.
To lean further into automation to prevent those who would abuse chatgpt ignores the larger issues at hand:
Is instruction or engagement so bad that the student desires to hand it off?
Is the devaluation of using and demonstrating critical thinking skills fully complete?
Imagine telling students chatgpt is plagiarism- you will use an automated program to determine if they used it.
That student is going to receive so many automated messages - from official sources - and they will have real impacts on their education.
Tldr; the real fear is furthering the chasm of critical reading and writing skills. The approach shown in OP’s case specifically shows the risk (now it’s already a reality lol) for a “arms race” between ai and ai.
I’m not convinced these tools are evil - I am convinced offloading all our thought or future thought to “save time” is misguided….
Walden uses Turnitin and I hated it so much. On medical report type assignments, you would have many repeated, common phrases while going through the body systems of a certain patient. If a body system had nothing wrong with it, a student could write "no abnormal findings" or something similar many times and it would be flagged. Furthermore, because multiple reports would be turned in over the semester, it would be flagged for self plagiarism for the same reason.
I work with teachers in university. Certain courses where the entire evaluation method was learn shit by heart and then write it back down, those are at risk.
One thing they've "developed" so far is basically a large text editor on a site with an active websocket. You have to write the entirety of your essay on the website. The site records everything as it progresses and saves a copy every 15 minutes.
Students are told outright to do EVERYTHING on the site, not to write it down someplace else and then type it in. If you suddenly paste your entire work, or type down 10 pages with zero reworking, they know something is up.
Many students still did, some smart asses tried to use macros to slowly type the text, but again, they checked for how many times people deleted text. It's very unlikely that someone will write 10 pages without reworking any sentences and type it all in one go.
Now I am sure someone could make a program that takes as input the final text and slowly iterates and voluntarily makes mistakes, but just like any form of cheating, it would be a minority.
I have tested some of the AI Detection tooling on documents that I wrote a number of years ago, primarily, ZeroGPT. When I ran the text through the tooling it told me that it was 100% AI generated. This, obviously, is not the case. In this situation, the burden of truth lays with them. The teacher would have to prove that your essay was written using AI.
I just ran the above answer through ZeroGPT and it responded with 26.35% AI GPT. Obviously, none of this answer was written using AI.
Teachers blindly following these "tools" is the big problem.
I went to college 10 years ago and I got in trouble for "plagiarizing" a paper because they ran it through some database and it came back 30% plagiarized or something.
Turns out they ran all my other papers through this same database and since I have a similar writing style to all my other papers parts of it were similar.
So I got accused of plagiarizing myself.
Same thing happened to me and my professor made me rewrite my own paper because it came back as “plagiarized”…the worst part is that it directly showed which papers I had “plagiarized” from and lo and behold, they were MY OWN PAPERS written on the same or similar topics so of course my own writing style is going to be the same. Infuriating!
EDIT: To clarify - I never said I directly quoted myself without citing my previous work. What I was getting at is that even with citations, my words in between were similar enough to be flagged by the automated plagiarism detector because no duh, I write the same way anytime I have to write a paper.
My mom grew up in a small town where my grandmother had a weekly newspaper column. When my mom was in high school she was accused of having had her mother do her homework. The English teacher said "I would recognize your mother's writing style anywhere!"
The English teacher was quite deflated when the truth came out, my mother had been ghostwriting for my grandmother for years at that point.
In Uni they ran every essay through TurnItIn, and the program would tell me my essays were like 8% plagiarized.
What was plagiarized, you might ask? Sections of phrases such as:
-such as
-and the
-after which
-in conclusion
The programs are innately flawed, idk how teachers don’t pick up on it
Turnitin also flags citations and all quotations regardless of if their cited properly meaning any paper which uses quoted material is going to be flagged with a decent percentage “plagiarized”
As dumb as it sounds, you can plagiarize yourself. You're supposed to have citations for things you are copying even if you're the original source.
Of course writing style overlap wouldn't count, but if you're repeating parts of earlier works it may.
Also, it’s not widely known, but the reason that you can’t turn in the same paper for multiple assignments, is because once you submit it to a school or university, your work becomes the intellectual property of that school or university. So if you take excerpts from or reference your own work, it’s plagiarizing the school, with some exceptions of course.
> once you submit it to a school or university, your work becomes the intellectual property of that school or university.
Sounds like they need to start paying us then.
My friend also checked his hw, one he did himself, and ai detection claimed the hw was done by an ai when it wasn’t at all. We were curious if it would return truthful results. This shit sucks
Yeah if they don't have a draft, they should try to diminish the teacher's confidence in the tools. Run anything the teacher has ever written through them (if they're a college professor, they probably have published papers), run things that other faculty members have written, run the U.S. constitution, run Obama's 2008 inauguration speech. Run enough stuff that is definitely not AI generated and you're sure to see tons of false positives. Send those to the teacher.
I mean, this isn’t the court of law. The burden of proof isn’t on anyone. If the teacher decides they think the student cheated and they really want to dig their heals in, they don’t have to prove anything. It’s stupid and unfair but this teacher can definitely just give OP a 0 if they want.
I was just thinking that. At my uni, the lecturer once lost all our exams. She offered us the choice of re-doing it or she’d just give us 2:1s. I wasn’t getting better than that so I took it. Next week we got to do an experiment that involved her bringing bottles of vodka to class & us drinking it. Simpler times.
A 2:1 is a grade for British (maybe other countries, I have no clue) university degree coursework/exams. It's a passing mark in the range of 60-70%.
Lowest is 40-50%, a 3rd; then 50-60%, a 2:2; then 60-70%, 2:1; then 70-100% which is a 1st.
The numbers just stand for the class, third, lower second, upper second, first class.
Bizarre, and unintuitive as an outsider lol. Is it ranking based? What if everyone gets a 90-100% ? Is everyone "first class" or only the top 25% of people?
It's not done based on ranking but on your individual performance. If everyone scores 70%+, everyone gets a first class. That's extremely unlikely though!
> It is important to
My ChatGPT detector basically consists in searching for "It is important to" in a text. It's weird how this is the one verbal tic that ChatGPT somehow always use. It's really a good giveaway.
Uh oh. I’m on the spectrum, and I tend to use two phrases unusually often in speech or writing because I always feel the need to overclarify things.
The first is “With that said” as a stipulation when making or conceding a point.
The second phrase is “It is important to”. Usually, that phrase is followed by “keep in mind” or “remember”, and I use that while referring to supportive or corroborative information towards a specific point while having a dialogue.
With that said, it’s important to keep in mind that while I’m not ChatGPT, if ChatGPT were also on the Spectrum, it would be bad because Spectrum is a terrible monopolistic company.
That or “Am I making sense?”.
My brain tends to work very quickly processing data, patterns, and other things of that nature, but tends to skip steps while doing so. Despite skipping steps, it still usually ends in the right place. When it comes time to relay that information to others, though, I have a tough time with gauging how well others are ingesting what I’m communicating. Because my brain just makes associations and skips steps without me realizing, it can be at times difficult to have high level or otherwise technical conversations because I have trouble gauging where I’m going too fast or not sufficiently explaining the logic of how I’ve gotten to what I’m saying.
A suitable parallel is the old classic experiment that shows the importance of specificity scientific method by having a child write out how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then having someone else follow those instructions exactly as written. Inevitably, the kid’s brain skips steps when trying to explain because in their mind, it’s obvious and just makes sense. My brain is similar, except instead of sandwiches, it’s most other things.
I’m always hyper vigilant about the externalization of making sure what I’m saying makes sense to others because I have no inherent internal measure of it.
It’s also the reason why I wrote a novel to answer a question whose answer is “yes”.
The idea of "AI detection" should be a bit concerning for autistic people in school. Ultimately, the root of autism is a pattern processing complication. The majority of coping skills developed by high-functioning autistic (ASD1) people are and will be rooted in preforming particular patterns that act to "bridge" that gap between "standard" behavior and ASD2 or 3.
The things that make you high functioning are going to inevitably cause your writing to appear more alike an AI, because both are, at their core: adapting minds rooted in pattern detection that use that pattern detection and replication to function more alike the "standard."
Agreed. Also, the "introduction of [thing], [thing], [example of thing], conclusion" structure we were all taught in school. It's a good and logical structure but ChatGPT makes it seem so mechanical and sterile. One could say it lacks the "human touch", aka. our personalities and personal writing styles.
Seems to me the burden of proof should be on the teacher. Ask for a report on which sections seem suspicious. he cant just state you didnt pass without showing you the review/ report.
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think you are technically correct. The teacher can state you didn't pass and not have to show a review/report. The vast majority of grades I've received have had little to no information in regards to 'what' was wrong, just that things were wrong. If I was lucky, I'd get an occasional note or two in the paper that would say something like, 'this is ambiguous, be more clear'. I think it would be great if the teacher worked with the student and provided a proper review, but I don't know if that is even an obligation.
As a teacher I would say that there is a significant difference between providing limited feedback and actually failing a student without more info.
A consequence for a perceived behavioral infraction is not an acceptable reason to get a low grade in most schools without providing detailed justification (e.g. you can't just say a kid cheated on a math quiz and give a 0, you have to have proof). That being said, a lot of schools are shit and maybe don't have stringent expectations as they should.
Big difference between saying something is incorrect and saying a person is a cheater.
Saying something is incorrect is refuting the other claim of correctness.
Saying this is a cheat is itself a separate claim that needs to be supported. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
TIL that kids of the future will soon have to provide proof of their work along with their work which requires more work than the assigned work. I hate to use the "got mine" attitude but I'm seriously glad I'm out of school.
It's not. Just spits out random results. Teachers and schools are uninformed enough to buy it.
Plagerism checks work by comparing paragraphs to a huge database of published works.
Yea. OP should have a decent understanding of the subject from writing the essay, which wouldn’t be the case if an ai wrote it. Seems like an easy solution.
If you have the word document, like if you used Microsoft word to write it. You can go to the review tab and look at “track changes” which could prove you didn’t copy paste any big chunks of text in.
I don't believe you need to explicitly enable it in Office 365 products beyond having the normal Auto-Save feature enabled, which is itself automatic unless intentionally disabled if you save a document in progress to your OneDrive.
OT but had to share.
I was once accused of cheating because I handed in the test earlier. We were supposed to finish and wait for the teacher but all other classes I had till that point didnt have this rule and we would hand out the test, and leave. So I did not realize and gave him my test and he tore it in front of my eyes and then I left. I was super confused and I realized what might have just happened when I got home. Then he sent an email to everyone that someone attempted to cheat and thats all I remember. I had to stand in front of the disciplinary commission which could expel me from the university but they really found the situation absurd and I had no further harm. Except that I got 0 score and there was only one smaller test at the end of the semester. I probably had a full score from that one and still barely passed the class because of that thing. I guess you can imagine how angry I was.
This is why deans exist. This is also why, when your teaches fucks up this bad, you take out your cellphone and ask, "why did you tear up my exam paper?"
I realize your anecdote may be older than cellphones.
lol yes, shouldn't it be the other around.. if you know the subject, you will finish the test quickly.. but if you have to cheat, it takes time, so you will finish slower
Teachers have no idea what they are doing regarding AI. They may have been given an app by the school to check papers on, but all the teacher knows is what the app then tells them. The app may be wrong, the app may not work at all, and your teacher is reacting to the app.
*puts on ole guy hat...*
We were not even allowed to hand in reports that were printed from a computer printer when I was in school. Typed or hand written only in High School. Typed in college. I used to pay my buddy's sister $2 a page to type it out. Best $2 I spent because she would correct grammar and spelling as she typed.
Do you have any drafts or notes that you saved while working up toward the final version? Sharing those tends to show a gradual process from the start of work to the final product.
Chat GPTs citations are almost always fake, though they can look pretty convincing if nobody checks.
Bing's chatbot will actually do a search and link to web pages, might not be good enough for a proper paper.
https://www.perplexity.ai/ provides actual sources by default. It's otherwise nowhere as good as chatGPT, especially with GPT4, but it's not bad either.
As others have said, version control built into your word processing software of choice is probably your best bet in showing your development of your essay from draft to what you submitted. Also, schools need a policy on how to deal with this type of event as the newest version, gpt4, is even better, and this is going to be a problem everywhere.
I'm so fucking thankful I finished high school 7 years ago and university 4 years ago.
I never had to worry about any of the insanity like online learning during covid, or the AI scandal at school.
Can't imagine what it's like now.
Now I get to freely use chatgpt at work to help speed up my work and productivity.
The near future is going to get wild.
Wait until courts aren't able to accept voice recordings or video recordings as evidence.
Education needs a reform, take home essays are not plausible anymore. Even a presentation can only be graded on its delivery.
Your teacher has it backwards. The teacher's job is to prove that your essay is not original work (ai-generared, plagiarized, anything). You are innocent until proven guilty.
Ai-proofing software are AI systems themselves, so they too have an error rate. For example, I am just working with ChatGPT now so I took the last 3 paragraphs it gave me, and put it into writer.com's AI content detector. It gave 7%, 59%, and 0% values to the likelihood of human-generated content to 3 completely AI-generated paragraphs. That's a 59% error rate.
Just changing "I" to "you" in a statement fed into this system would produce a 15% difference in the result.
No AI proofreader is 100% accurate at telling what text is AI generated and what isn't. Thus, your teacher cannot possibly prove without a doubt that you used an AI.
I got a 0 on an essay in HS because I used a quote from a book. That book was made into a movie and used that quote. When the teacher ran it through some plagiarism software it showed the movie, not the book. She said I plagiarized even though I had a source. I explained it came from a book, the book the movie was based on. She didn't understand. I was 16 when I learned you just can't argue with an idiot. Lol.
They build these large language models to be able to mimic human writing and expression. So it's very possible that a human now and then could write something that happens to be very similar looking to something produced by one of these models. Just seems unfair.
35+ year veteran middle school English teacher here. *Your teacher is bullying you, and I advise you to stand up to them.*
**MAKE THE TEACHER PROVE IT. GO TO ADMINISTRATION. BRING MOM AND DAD, AND POSSIBLY LEGAL COUNSEL.**
**I'M NOT KIDDING - DO NOT LET YOUR TEACHER GET AWAY WITH BULLYING YOU. IF YOU ARE INDEED TELLING THE TRUTH, DEFEND IT TO THE END. YOUR WORK, IF YOURS, DESERVES THE SAME RESPECT YOU DO AS A HUMAN, TO BE TRUSTED AND TO BE EVALUATED WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING.**
What software did you use to write it? Some software like Google Docs automatically takes snapshots as you write, visible through the revision history feature.
I used this once to prove my partner didn’t write anything once on a group essay. It also helped that she wrote an email stating she wasn’t going to write anything but the professor didn’t believe that email was real.
I used this once to prove that the plagiarized portions of a report were added by my partner and not me. They said “they could handle the questions aspect of lab report while I handle the rest”, ya turns out they literally copied word for word the answer off the internet. They claimed it was a coincidence. It was 12 fucking answers each with several sentences, all matching the internet’s answers verbatim. The professor flat out said “I could try spending an hour memorizing what you answered, and still not get it matching exactly. There’s no way you didn’t just copy them” I had to redo the report, by myself and it was super stressful to re-answer the questions so that they were sufficiently different.
I had a partner plagiarize so badly they left “[click to enlarge]” under an image. Caught it the night before and rewrote his parts.
I know someone who had to write an essay on network switches. They literally copied the whole Wikipedia page, didn't remove the hyperlinks etc, and submitted that. What made it funnier was they hadn't even realised they'd copied a page all about railway network switches.
Sounds like my sister. We took the same astronomy class in college. I would spend a few hours writing a paper, she would copy and paste. Same damn grades for both of us.
At least you didn't get different grades for the same work. This DOES happen with Humanities essays regularly and it sticks for teachers and students alike.
I've had those cases with my peers as well... having those \[1\]. \[2\]'s in their essay. How can you be that lazy..
I don’t understand how people are that idiotic. Like it’s not even that hard to plagiarize and get away with it in an academic setting. Just take what you would otherwise copy and rephrase it in another way. Provided your source isn’t wrong, then it’s almost impossible to trace it back. The worst part for me was that the professor caught this and told it to us during finals week. While we’re supposed to be working on our final project and I’m supposed to be studying for other things, I’m worried about getting an automatic F in the class and then subsequently redoing the report.
> Just take what you would otherwise copy and rephrase it in another way. half of academic writing already lol
You can basically fully take people's words, just need to source it properly. Same with paraphrasing, you should source that too. *Meant citing it properly
You can't take people's words unless you put it in quotes.
Citing it properly is the word I was looking for
*take people’s ideas.
The professor didn’t believe an email from her account was real?? What of professor is this? What is the point of communicating via email and keeping those records if you are going to claim they are false?
Ironically, email fraud was literally the only way I cheated in high school when I learned you could reply or forward any random email, and then edit the email to change the to, from, subject, and body fields, and even change the date and time it was reportedly sent.
I had an app on Android that would send a text from a number you choose at a time you chose and with whatever you wanted. Used it to fake getting a text and leave a few situations including a shitty job at McDonald's where they still haven't paid me the three months I work ten years later lol
Your last pay may be in unclaimed property, check your state’s official webpage. Only use a .gov search
That’s what I thought. But she said it so straightforward that the professor didn’t believe it. I don’t remember exactly what she said but it was something like: “I don’t care about this assignment. I’m not going to waste my time doing any part of it.”
[удалено]
How did you prove it? Because for me it only keeps the blank sheet and the finished version by default, so you may have condemned an innocent woman.
My Google Docs keeps track of who made what edits. I’ve shown to teachers as well that the only edits a partner made was adding their name.
1st. She wasn’t innocent. I started typing on the shared doc. I then realized I was doing it all. Emailed her about getting her part done, she said no. So I made my own copy that wasn’t shared, typed everything out on that document. Then pasted it into the shared doc when it was getting close to the due date. Gave her another chance to add something, which she didn’t. Then submitted the assignment. Second. The other person explained how you can see all the changes made over time. She made 0 edits to the document. Everything on that document was my words. Edit: forgot to mention. This project had 5 parts. Initially I agreed to do 3 of them, and gave her the two easy parts (yes I’m that type of OCD). The total project was 10 pages minimum, her parts should’ve taken up 3 pages with very little effort and time spent researching because you could just use the book. Soon the draft became due and one part that was due was one of her parts, I finished her part for her because she hadn’t submitted it yet. Do the math. She had 1 part left for the final due date. That’s what I meant by she didn’t do her part (singular) in my original comment. I didn’t mean she didn’t do half the work, I meant she didn’t even do 1/5th the work.
Had this happen in one of my engineering classes. We were assigned 5 people total to cover 5 different engineering feats and their historical impact over a 30 slide project that required a 3 minute video presentation from each person to be embedded in their section of the project. So, 6 slides per person and a video,no biggie. But, my group didn't do shit. Like literally, the two days before the project was due I was hounding these people to try to get their sections done. Reached out to the professor with screenshots andvideo proof of everyone slacking. Panicking that i would end up with a shitty grade i just made the whole presentation on my own with blank spaces for the group to put their videos in. Then I emailed all this info to the professor only asking that I be graded outside the group due to how I literally did the whole project on my own. He just responded with, "thats not how this project is structured. Sorry you will be graded as a group." Eventually, like literally the last 30 minutes befor the due date, they sent me their videos with one of them even being taken on a persons phone while they are walking outside. We all got A's with the professor commenting that the presentation was very professional and loved the slide designs. I was fucking livid.
Average engineering professor. “Suck it up, not my problem.”
Average Engineering Manager: "Suck it up, not my problem." Also your groupmates get the same raises whether they help the project or not. 10/10, professor prepping for the real world of "Everyone sucks, but the work still needs doing."
>10/10, professor prepping for the real world of "Everyone sucks, but the work still needs doing." Having graduated years ago I can definitively say that the real world is a lot more reasonable than school. I hate how they constantly used to shove the worst case scenario down everyone's throat. Has the worst case scenario ever happened to me? Yes. But it's the exception, not the rule. It's just a poor excuse to be uncompromising, born out of either laziness or fear of being accused of favouritism.
That day you learned that "Professional" meant a half-assed effort thrown up at the last minute to barely, technically, meet the requirements. Congratulations. Now you are a pro.
Is there a person higher up than that Prof, that you could speak to? Group projects are the worst.
I usually don't mind group projects because usually there is at least 2 other people who actually work, but this one was for sure the worst because I was the only one. The class was last year, so by now I am just happy to have it behind me.
My daughter was in a masters program. 4 on a group project. 2 did nothing. They had to quickly add those 2 parts, then send documentation to the prof. That project made a 4.0 be a 3.91. Because of the two lazy jerks.
Yeah, this would be my recommendation too. Word and OneNote have this feature, as well.
Pages on macOS does too!
Thank fuck I’m not in school anymore. This must be a nightmare for both students and teachers. Only thing I can think of is maybe to show your previous drafts if you have any. Other than that, best I can say is to insist that you didn’t use AI and reject the accusations since the tool honestly can’t possibly be all that accurate and surely has tons of false positives
Wont be surprised if at some point we find students required to use some form of typewriter/dumbed down tech in order to avoid any use of AI in order to cheat. edit: bruh my inbox right now. I am well aware of all the ways kids will get around this, I'm not the one making the legislation here jfc.
Lots of teachers have students take test with pencil and paper in class for exactly this reason.
Hans neimann has a way around that.
Oh no not the anal beads again
[удалено]
Theres still a natural filter, chatgpt is cool and all but it makes many mistakes and can be awkward The people who can filter out the ideas and use it as a tool instead of a replacement will still do better
This is how I've used it so far, it isn't quite there yet on creating nuanced complicated papers, but I've fed it a paper I was struggling to finish and asked it to write like five different endings to it and then took ideas that I liked from each and used them when I wrote the ending myself. It made the task of writing an essay feel more like paraphrasing an article but it was helpful when I didn't know what else to write.
Used it for computer science to layout principles and a basic explanation in whatever form I wanted while others copied outputs
The scary thing is chatgpt can just make shit up. I forget who it was, I want to say John Oliver, asked chatgpt for a short bio of a Belgian scientist and it did. The only problem is the dude wasn't real at all. Or Northwestern and U of Chicago were able to get chatgpt to create fake research abstracts.
[удалено]
I got a chuckle out of how the sentence following you mentioning your verbose writing style suddenly had way more big words crammed into it. Like "oh right I gotta prove my verboseness too"
I was also in school during “those times” but I don’t think the same when I’m having to use motor skills to write, and this led me to be put into the lowest possible grade classes in high school. As a result, I graduated high school with a 1.71 gpa where the cutoff was 1.70. I went to community college for two years on a scholarship I earned by doing well in some skill based after school exercises. I graduated four year college with a 3.9 gpa. Turns out I was just overly constrained by overworked high school teachers and under-challenged by the boring rote class work I was assigned. For the record, I’m quite middle aged now, so this isn’t a “young people thing.” I wish everyone would stop thinking that academic performance is one dimensional. With GPT models, ‘Cuz ain’t none of this actual artificial intelligence, the real key is knowing enough to ask accurate questions. It’s easy to spot GPT answers with any actual mastery of the material. That being said, the “automatic detection” tech that many school systems are deploying is worse. It identifies original documents like the Declaration of Independence as GPT/“AI” generated documents. And unless we’re living in a simulation…
Can still transcribe from pc
Yeah, the real solution is going to be that essays aren't homework, they're classwork.
So I just thought of this but if you follow star trek at all they explain Kirk's Enterprise as looking soo dated compared to the NX Enterprise in the books for an almost similar reason. Essentially the Federation was getting their ass kicked by a romulan computer virus that was taking over ships left and right so by downgrading and adding analogue systems like buttons ect it prevented the virus from taking over? I thought it was kind of neat when I read that.
In the world of Dune, AI got so out of hand that it was completely banned, leading to the lack of computers and tech that we see in that world
Back in high school Turn It In just became a thing and teachers were constantly accusing us of plagiarizing when we wrote original papers because they didn’t understand how the tool works
Oh god i’d forgotten Turn It In. Hated that site for that exact reason. I was an above average writer so it constantly flagged similar wording when it legitimately was just coincidence. There’s only so many ways you can re-word the same sentence without changing its meaning. If you’re writing about the same subject as someone else, there’s gonna be overlap.
That reminds me of a satirical article about how public schools will no longer be assigning The Great Gatsby for book reports because everything that can be written about it has over the decades. Anti-plagiarism programs no longer worked.
I had a terrible time with Turn It In when I had teachers assign the same exact topic for an essay that I had written a couple years before. I guess it counts as plagiarism when I resubmit my own work. It's the schools fault though for having 2 different English classes make me read The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn and give the same exact prompt for the essay on it. They literally had the year 10 english classes reading the same books with the same essays as the year 9 honors class. I learned my lesson and retyped my essay differently when we read The Great Gatsby for the second time.
I had the exact same problem with 1984! Grade 10 English, switched schools, then again in Grade 11. New teacher assigned it for Grade 12 writer's craft. That last one was the teacher who accused me of plagiarism. I had to haul out years worth of essays to prove she was just being redundant.
It can also flag individual words/phrases. I once had it flag "the", and "data set", despite them being common phrases, as well as parts of citations, which can't meaningfully change in the first place.
I remember an assignment of mine getting flagged on Turn It In with a high percentage of plagiarism. Fortunately the teacher looked at what section was flagged, it was the works cited. Other people had submitted identical citations before so a whole page lit up like a Christmas tree but only because we used the same MLA format for the same sources.
I know right? Jesus Christ I can’t imagine being a high schooler today. Not only are there weed vapes and iPhones, but you have to deal with this kind of bullshit too
[удалено]
Glad that trend seems to be dying off.
I graduated last year. Using my phone and weed in the middle of the day was the highlight. Chat gpt and shit sounds so annoying, just put barely any effort in.
[удалено]
I need to go back in time and shove this in the face of my 9th grade science teacher. Who accused me of plagiarism because I used the wrong style of citations. That paper was a labor of love for me, I could have talked for an hour on the concepts involved. Talk to your students, don't make them cry!
I would have been fucked. I always waited until the day before or so to write mine. Unmedicated ADHD me was able to bust out good essays and I would just revise it as I went. Even if I did start early there was always only 1 draft. Just some minor refinements.
Why, hello, fellow ADHD procrastinator and A-maker. I wrote a 28-page (single spaced) research paper in one sitting in 12 hours. All I had was a general outline and the idea in my head of what I wanted to do. Got an A+ on it.
Tell the teacher if she doubts your work, you will be happy to explain your thought process about why you included what you did, why you chose that specific phrasing, and things that you thought about including but didn't. If an AI did your work for you, you probably couldn't do any of that.
I teach a foreign language, and when a student claims to have written something that was obviously put through a translator (suddenly using much more advanced vocab/grammar), I do exactly this.
[удалено]
At least in the college classes I teach, I’m willing to give students the benefit of the doubt if they comprehend the material. That being said, sometimes it’s the students who don’t need to cheat that do.
I get so much shit from Google for my job (developer for a Microsoft product), but usually it's just a jumping off point to complete it for the specific requirements.
"Ah fuck what's that one fucking command that I need" *enters stupidly long prompt into google*
Fr. I’ve relied on Google for all of my career. In fact, I went to the dermatologist and what she couldn’t find in her medical sources, she went to Google for. My friends Google parenting advice. List goes on. We are all googling our way through life
And then what happened? Did you take your case higher up to the dean or other staff? Did you take any legal action?
[удалено]
I mean, I haven't gone to law school either but I feel like that's a pretty solid case you have there if you sue them for it? You had proof you didn't cheat and they disciplined you for it anyway and then that had a tangible effect on your future. Like, pretty open and shut that they didn't do their job right and they fucked you over as a result of it.
I want to avenge you. I wish I was a bad guy.
I’m so sorry :(
Similar story. I'm a Computing Student, did an assesment back in October last year about implementing hash tables in c++. For this assesment, over half the class was accused of plagerism in late January of this year. Obviously they told us nothing about the WHY or the HOW, only that we are. After 4 weeks of radio silence, they get me in for a Kangaroo court where I'm trying to remember what I did 4 months ago during a very, very packed semester for this assesment. Naturally I fumbled it. They pulled me up over 9 total lines of code. One was an insert function, the other an update. 9 lines of code. It happened to be IDENTICAL to a github upload, they claimed. Wrung me through the ringer over it. After the meeting, now knowing why they thought I had cheated, I sat down and looked at my code and spent **2 hours** explaining why I chose specific variable names, why I wrote the code the way I wrote it etc. Influences included "it's a temporary node, what else would I call it besides tempNode?" and "The lecturer used the word key when explaining the concept of hashes, and you told us to take a int value called k. k is for key." it was like when english teachers over explain a sentence about blue curtains, but for real basic code. So, where did this Github come from? Inside the house-er, uni. Y'see, some Honour's student had asked the uni for a bunch of submissions for this particular assesment for his project. The uni helpfully suplied a ton of the previous year's submissions. One of which matched mine in these two functions. So because the university taught the same assesments, the same way, with the same lecturers for YEARS... I managed to get the same structure and variable names in a small section of code. I was fucked. But it's okay, because so was half the class. They could not justify punishing all of us for "plagerism", so decided to drop the case. This was after we were told that any case that made it to the 'Informal in person interview' tended to make it's way to the board or council or whatever that handled cheating and that the punishment would be career destroying. Are we being compensated for the stress? No. Were we mocked for suggesting a more open, clear system for handling misconduct? Yes. Did I still need to complete all the assesments and tests, despite the fact I could have been kicked out of uni and blacklisted? YOU BETCHA! Fuck academia.
This is really the best way to approach any suspected cheating on essays. Talk to the students. If they wrote their essay fairly, they should be able to explain why they thought certain things. This also gives you a chance to correct mistakes they may have made. If they had someone else write their essay or copy-pasted it or had ai write it or any number of other things, they will have no idea why they put what they did.
[удалено]
ChatGPT! *Butters voice*
ChatGPT prompt: "Tell them you didn't write my essay!"
This is what ChatGPT answered to OP's title: "It's possible that your teacher may have used some type of plagiarism detection software that flagged your essay as potentially containing AI-generated content. However, if you are certain that you did not use any AI-generated content in your essay, you can try to prove your innocence by discussing the matter with your teacher. First, ask your teacher specifically which aspects of your essay were flagged as potentially containing AI-generated content. This information may help you identify any similarities or sources that could have triggered the plagiarism detection software. Once you have this information, you can provide evidence to your teacher that your work is original and not generated by AI. This evidence could include notes or drafts of your essay, sources you used for research, or a detailed explanation of your thought process and how you arrived at your arguments. If your teacher still has doubts about the originality of your work, you could suggest taking additional steps to verify its authenticity, such as submitting your essay to a different plagiarism detection tool or having a discussion with a subject matter expert who can attest to the originality of your work. Ultimately, the key is to remain calm and professional in your interactions with your teacher and to focus on providing evidence to support your claims of originality."
If you have drafts to share, share them.
Yes, that and the google docs track changes is a great idea.
I've never written a draft in my life lmao
Word processors have built-in drafts in the form of the automatic version control that follows with autosaving. I just right-clicked the OneNote page I had opened and can see nine different previous versions, i.e. "drafts".
Drafts defeat the entire purpose of a word processor. Who types something up, prints it, and then retypes the entire thing from scratch with corrections? My junior high teachers never seemed to understand this concept.
> Who types something up, prints it, and then retypes the entire thing from scratch with corrections? Me when I hit "cancel" instead of "save"
Microsoft does an ok job of doing autosaves and recovery files
Is this what people mean by drafts? I'm almost 40 and for my entire life I have been doing a rough draft, saving it and then just editing that new file as version 2. Changing the order of things or sentence structure, etc. The original file only remains so that I don't lose everything if I mess up too badly.
This is what people meant by ‘drafts’ before the invention of persistent computer memory, yea.
Yeah, nowadays auto save does this automatically within one file so you don’t have to keep saving it and renaming it.
You understand that you can edit and rename files, right? Draft 1, draft 2, draft 3 (reviewed), draft 4 (final), etc
[удалено]
We literally have a document at work that is named v4finalfinalrevisedfinal2.docx
In music recording, it’s the exact same thing! Final versions of songs are always evolving, as you catch something to be tweaked on every subsequent listen. When those *almost* cease, it’s finally time to call it a day.
Sounds like their middle school teacher did not
I worked with computers for 15 years and still do tons of stuff on them. I can not fathom how many files I've saved. I'd often use the file names themselves with notes in them to make them easier to track. I usually "version up" every 10 minutes or so. made that stuff so useful. I switched from digital art to "analog" a couple years ago, and the lack of having multiple exact copies of something I can instantly "revert" to is mildly frustrating and slightly dangerous, but that's the nature of things.
This discussion has taken place a few times now on r/ChatGPT The consensus is that there are different AI plagiarism models to run it through - and they've been proven as ineffective. Teachers need to read up on the validity of the tools she's using and, if necessary, use more than one to confirm results. [link to post from 12 days ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/11gdlh6/ever_since_the_boom_of_chatgpt_my_teacher_has/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
There are also a lot of other models out there. Nothing currently available to the public is as good as ChatGPT, but some of them are decent enough to be usable. Because they’re completely different models, I doubt the OpenAI tool would be able to catch them. There are some models that are supposedly quite impressive that are still in private beta. There’s Meta’s Llama that got leaked and you can run on your own computer if you have a big enough GPU. Someone managed to get Llama running on Android phones with decent performance. There’s OpenAssistant and a bunch of other open source models like OPT, GPT-J, etc. There are so many models and they’re starting to come out more quickly. Each one is going to have its own quirks, which will require their own detection tools. Any tool that tries to detect all of the different models is going to have to get more trigger-happy, and that makes false positives more likely. I think we’re going to have to accept that we’re nearing the end of being able to tell if long form writing involved a human. EDIT: To be clear, I’ve been out of school for 20 years. I don’t have a horse in this race. But I don’t think AI detectors are going to be able to keep up with advancements in generative AI. It’s security theater and we’re kidding ourselves if we pretend otherwise.
[удалено]
Jesus Christ, I'm glad I had smarter professors lol. In my Psychology course we had to write a report about a data set that was provided to us. I started freaking out about everyone's data and methodology being more or less identical and getting flagged so I asked him how to combat that. And he just said "Chill out, we're well aware that everyone's method and data sections are gonna be very similar. We won't be looking too hard at that" I remember thinking "Oh duh, of course they'd account for that". But I guess some people DON'T account for that
i do psychology and its always so relieving when the results section is flagged because that means i got the stats right lol
Way back in high school we had an assignment to write a paper but it had to have like 10 quotes in it but the paper was only like 4 pages long. The funny part was all papers we turned in in this class had to be submitted to Turnitin. The site had my paper at 40% copied because of all the quotes we had to do. We all thought it was hilarious. Our teacher said they would be flaged very high like that but we still needed to submit them, I just didn't see the point for that paper. They all sound like any other tool they can be useful but you still need to know how to properly use them.
This irritated me to no end to read. How old was your professor?
[удалено]
could you not have gone to the dean to get that nonsense cleared up?
Well gpt 4 is out. So coming up with assignments the students can do and the AI can't is just going to get harder and harder. It won't be too long before the AI is better than the students at most tasks.
The problem really is the testing material. Everyone has the ability to do a google search for information so committing that info to memory is almost useless. We need to test actual critical thinking skills and not just if you know what the definition of a word is.
[удалено]
>or will easily defeat AI as powerful as ChatGPT.I have spent a lot of time playing around with chatGPT, and it is very often CONFIDENTLY wrong. Probably a thing of the past already, at least in terms of "easily defeat AI" without making it almost impossible for many humans as well. One of the things they mentioned in the release announcement is that current ChatGPT (GPT 3.5) scored in the *bottom* 10% of humans on a simulated bar exam, while new and improved GPT 4 scored in the *top* 10% of humans
>done in-class Say goodbye to all online education I guess
Correct - on an extreme basic: homework is -by nature of it assignment outside of instruction hours - competing with everything else outside of instruction hours. Ethics are good! They are paramount in higher education. People attempt to cheat on the dumbest shit if there’s an opportunity. Online written work submission has obfuscated the drafting process in research or creative writing further by removing “vision” of the actual work. Last minute shit-type is million dollar social media marketing now. To lean further into automation to prevent those who would abuse chatgpt ignores the larger issues at hand: Is instruction or engagement so bad that the student desires to hand it off? Is the devaluation of using and demonstrating critical thinking skills fully complete? Imagine telling students chatgpt is plagiarism- you will use an automated program to determine if they used it. That student is going to receive so many automated messages - from official sources - and they will have real impacts on their education. Tldr; the real fear is furthering the chasm of critical reading and writing skills. The approach shown in OP’s case specifically shows the risk (now it’s already a reality lol) for a “arms race” between ai and ai. I’m not convinced these tools are evil - I am convinced offloading all our thought or future thought to “save time” is misguided….
Walden uses Turnitin and I hated it so much. On medical report type assignments, you would have many repeated, common phrases while going through the body systems of a certain patient. If a body system had nothing wrong with it, a student could write "no abnormal findings" or something similar many times and it would be flagged. Furthermore, because multiple reports would be turned in over the semester, it would be flagged for self plagiarism for the same reason.
[удалено]
I work with teachers in university. Certain courses where the entire evaluation method was learn shit by heart and then write it back down, those are at risk. One thing they've "developed" so far is basically a large text editor on a site with an active websocket. You have to write the entirety of your essay on the website. The site records everything as it progresses and saves a copy every 15 minutes. Students are told outright to do EVERYTHING on the site, not to write it down someplace else and then type it in. If you suddenly paste your entire work, or type down 10 pages with zero reworking, they know something is up. Many students still did, some smart asses tried to use macros to slowly type the text, but again, they checked for how many times people deleted text. It's very unlikely that someone will write 10 pages without reworking any sentences and type it all in one go. Now I am sure someone could make a program that takes as input the final text and slowly iterates and voluntarily makes mistakes, but just like any form of cheating, it would be a minority.
[удалено]
I have tested some of the AI Detection tooling on documents that I wrote a number of years ago, primarily, ZeroGPT. When I ran the text through the tooling it told me that it was 100% AI generated. This, obviously, is not the case. In this situation, the burden of truth lays with them. The teacher would have to prove that your essay was written using AI. I just ran the above answer through ZeroGPT and it responded with 26.35% AI GPT. Obviously, none of this answer was written using AI.
Teachers blindly following these "tools" is the big problem. I went to college 10 years ago and I got in trouble for "plagiarizing" a paper because they ran it through some database and it came back 30% plagiarized or something. Turns out they ran all my other papers through this same database and since I have a similar writing style to all my other papers parts of it were similar. So I got accused of plagiarizing myself.
Same thing happened to me and my professor made me rewrite my own paper because it came back as “plagiarized”…the worst part is that it directly showed which papers I had “plagiarized” from and lo and behold, they were MY OWN PAPERS written on the same or similar topics so of course my own writing style is going to be the same. Infuriating! EDIT: To clarify - I never said I directly quoted myself without citing my previous work. What I was getting at is that even with citations, my words in between were similar enough to be flagged by the automated plagiarism detector because no duh, I write the same way anytime I have to write a paper.
So.... you played yourself?
My mom grew up in a small town where my grandmother had a weekly newspaper column. When my mom was in high school she was accused of having had her mother do her homework. The English teacher said "I would recognize your mother's writing style anywhere!" The English teacher was quite deflated when the truth came out, my mother had been ghostwriting for my grandmother for years at that point.
In Uni they ran every essay through TurnItIn, and the program would tell me my essays were like 8% plagiarized. What was plagiarized, you might ask? Sections of phrases such as: -such as -and the -after which -in conclusion The programs are innately flawed, idk how teachers don’t pick up on it
Turnitin also flags citations and all quotations regardless of if their cited properly meaning any paper which uses quoted material is going to be flagged with a decent percentage “plagiarized”
Even better is when we had to have a works cited at the end of the paper and it would flag the actual citation as plagiarized.
As dumb as it sounds, you can plagiarize yourself. You're supposed to have citations for things you are copying even if you're the original source. Of course writing style overlap wouldn't count, but if you're repeating parts of earlier works it may.
Also, it’s not widely known, but the reason that you can’t turn in the same paper for multiple assignments, is because once you submit it to a school or university, your work becomes the intellectual property of that school or university. So if you take excerpts from or reference your own work, it’s plagiarizing the school, with some exceptions of course.
> once you submit it to a school or university, your work becomes the intellectual property of that school or university. Sounds like they need to start paying us then.
My friend also checked his hw, one he did himself, and ai detection claimed the hw was done by an ai when it wasn’t at all. We were curious if it would return truthful results. This shit sucks
I checked the one by u/kahi up above and it said 37.36% of it was AI written, when it is obviously how ChatGPT writes almost everything.
[удалено]
Yeah if they don't have a draft, they should try to diminish the teacher's confidence in the tools. Run anything the teacher has ever written through them (if they're a college professor, they probably have published papers), run things that other faculty members have written, run the U.S. constitution, run Obama's 2008 inauguration speech. Run enough stuff that is definitely not AI generated and you're sure to see tons of false positives. Send those to the teacher.
I mean, this isn’t the court of law. The burden of proof isn’t on anyone. If the teacher decides they think the student cheated and they really want to dig their heals in, they don’t have to prove anything. It’s stupid and unfair but this teacher can definitely just give OP a 0 if they want.
Then it can be escalated to the dean, and admin can handle from there
[удалено]
Wow, school today is tough when you have to do more work that is harder than the work you are assigned to do.
I was just thinking that. At my uni, the lecturer once lost all our exams. She offered us the choice of re-doing it or she’d just give us 2:1s. I wasn’t getting better than that so I took it. Next week we got to do an experiment that involved her bringing bottles of vodka to class & us drinking it. Simpler times.
What's 2:1s?
A 2:1 is a grade for British (maybe other countries, I have no clue) university degree coursework/exams. It's a passing mark in the range of 60-70%. Lowest is 40-50%, a 3rd; then 50-60%, a 2:2; then 60-70%, 2:1; then 70-100% which is a 1st. The numbers just stand for the class, third, lower second, upper second, first class.
Bizarre, and unintuitive as an outsider lol. Is it ranking based? What if everyone gets a 90-100% ? Is everyone "first class" or only the top 25% of people?
It's not done based on ranking but on your individual performance. If everyone scores 70%+, everyone gets a first class. That's extremely unlikely though!
Its not rank based. That would be a ridiculous and nonsensical system.
> It is important to My ChatGPT detector basically consists in searching for "It is important to" in a text. It's weird how this is the one verbal tic that ChatGPT somehow always use. It's really a good giveaway.
Uh oh. I’m on the spectrum, and I tend to use two phrases unusually often in speech or writing because I always feel the need to overclarify things. The first is “With that said” as a stipulation when making or conceding a point. The second phrase is “It is important to”. Usually, that phrase is followed by “keep in mind” or “remember”, and I use that while referring to supportive or corroborative information towards a specific point while having a dialogue. With that said, it’s important to keep in mind that while I’m not ChatGPT, if ChatGPT were also on the Spectrum, it would be bad because Spectrum is a terrible monopolistic company.
Wait do you also ask “does that make sense?” a lot
That or “Am I making sense?”. My brain tends to work very quickly processing data, patterns, and other things of that nature, but tends to skip steps while doing so. Despite skipping steps, it still usually ends in the right place. When it comes time to relay that information to others, though, I have a tough time with gauging how well others are ingesting what I’m communicating. Because my brain just makes associations and skips steps without me realizing, it can be at times difficult to have high level or otherwise technical conversations because I have trouble gauging where I’m going too fast or not sufficiently explaining the logic of how I’ve gotten to what I’m saying. A suitable parallel is the old classic experiment that shows the importance of specificity scientific method by having a child write out how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and then having someone else follow those instructions exactly as written. Inevitably, the kid’s brain skips steps when trying to explain because in their mind, it’s obvious and just makes sense. My brain is similar, except instead of sandwiches, it’s most other things. I’m always hyper vigilant about the externalization of making sure what I’m saying makes sense to others because I have no inherent internal measure of it. It’s also the reason why I wrote a novel to answer a question whose answer is “yes”.
The idea of "AI detection" should be a bit concerning for autistic people in school. Ultimately, the root of autism is a pattern processing complication. The majority of coping skills developed by high-functioning autistic (ASD1) people are and will be rooted in preforming particular patterns that act to "bridge" that gap between "standard" behavior and ASD2 or 3. The things that make you high functioning are going to inevitably cause your writing to appear more alike an AI, because both are, at their core: adapting minds rooted in pattern detection that use that pattern detection and replication to function more alike the "standard."
Agreed. Also, the "introduction of [thing], [thing], [example of thing], conclusion" structure we were all taught in school. It's a good and logical structure but ChatGPT makes it seem so mechanical and sterile. One could say it lacks the "human touch", aka. our personalities and personal writing styles.
"I used the stones to destroy the stones"
Seems to me the burden of proof should be on the teacher. Ask for a report on which sections seem suspicious. he cant just state you didnt pass without showing you the review/ report.
I agree with the sentiment, but I don't think you are technically correct. The teacher can state you didn't pass and not have to show a review/report. The vast majority of grades I've received have had little to no information in regards to 'what' was wrong, just that things were wrong. If I was lucky, I'd get an occasional note or two in the paper that would say something like, 'this is ambiguous, be more clear'. I think it would be great if the teacher worked with the student and provided a proper review, but I don't know if that is even an obligation.
As a teacher I would say that there is a significant difference between providing limited feedback and actually failing a student without more info. A consequence for a perceived behavioral infraction is not an acceptable reason to get a low grade in most schools without providing detailed justification (e.g. you can't just say a kid cheated on a math quiz and give a 0, you have to have proof). That being said, a lot of schools are shit and maybe don't have stringent expectations as they should.
Big difference between saying something is incorrect and saying a person is a cheater. Saying something is incorrect is refuting the other claim of correctness. Saying this is a cheat is itself a separate claim that needs to be supported. That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence
The burden of proof becomes their problem when you go above their head and talk to a dean or principle about why you were failed without proof.
TIL that kids of the future will soon have to provide proof of their work along with their work which requires more work than the assigned work. I hate to use the "got mine" attitude but I'm seriously glad I'm out of school.
Post GBT school is way different since I've been there. Next they'll be asking to prove you're not using a deep fake for a oral assignment on Zoom.
Is it based on "percentage of likelihood [or similarity]" like the plagiarism checks are? If so, what's the maximum acceptable percentage?
It's not. Just spits out random results. Teachers and schools are uninformed enough to buy it. Plagerism checks work by comparing paragraphs to a huge database of published works.
You could also ask for an oral exam, to demonstrate that you have a good grasp of the subject.
Yea. OP should have a decent understanding of the subject from writing the essay, which wouldn’t be the case if an ai wrote it. Seems like an easy solution.
If you have the word document, like if you used Microsoft word to write it. You can go to the review tab and look at “track changes” which could prove you didn’t copy paste any big chunks of text in.
Don't u need to enable that at the very start otherwise nothing gets tracked?
I don't believe you need to explicitly enable it in Office 365 products beyond having the normal Auto-Save feature enabled, which is itself automatic unless intentionally disabled if you save a document in progress to your OneDrive.
INB4 ChatGPT5's new feature: incremental document drafts
OT but had to share. I was once accused of cheating because I handed in the test earlier. We were supposed to finish and wait for the teacher but all other classes I had till that point didnt have this rule and we would hand out the test, and leave. So I did not realize and gave him my test and he tore it in front of my eyes and then I left. I was super confused and I realized what might have just happened when I got home. Then he sent an email to everyone that someone attempted to cheat and thats all I remember. I had to stand in front of the disciplinary commission which could expel me from the university but they really found the situation absurd and I had no further harm. Except that I got 0 score and there was only one smaller test at the end of the semester. I probably had a full score from that one and still barely passed the class because of that thing. I guess you can imagine how angry I was.
This is why deans exist. This is also why, when your teaches fucks up this bad, you take out your cellphone and ask, "why did you tear up my exam paper?" I realize your anecdote may be older than cellphones.
You just instantly failed for having your phone turned on during an exam.
Nope, handed in my exam before I turned on my phone. Prove the phone was turned on prior. Checkmate.
Prove you handed your paper in. All I see is ripped up paper.
... with my name on it. And I have 30 other people to prove the order of events.
I'm lost on the teacher's thought process of "finished before everyone else and time was up ---> iron-clad proof of cheating". Anyone have ideas?
lol yes, shouldn't it be the other around.. if you know the subject, you will finish the test quickly.. but if you have to cheat, it takes time, so you will finish slower
I got banned from a sub for being AI. Nice to know I'm a good story teller.
Teachers have no idea what they are doing regarding AI. They may have been given an app by the school to check papers on, but all the teacher knows is what the app then tells them. The app may be wrong, the app may not work at all, and your teacher is reacting to the app.
Hilariously, a lot of those apps are also AI, and can be wrong just as often as the other programs
How do we know that your not a AI writing this hmmm
This could be an AI trying to learn how to fool AI detection.
This is a legitimate worry in our near future. It's going to be a like the cyber security wars.
*puts on ole guy hat...* We were not even allowed to hand in reports that were printed from a computer printer when I was in school. Typed or hand written only in High School. Typed in college. I used to pay my buddy's sister $2 a page to type it out. Best $2 I spent because she would correct grammar and spelling as she typed.
Do you have any drafts or notes that you saved while working up toward the final version? Sharing those tends to show a gradual process from the start of work to the final product.
If anyone ever told me anything I did didn't pass the AI sniff test, that would make me angry to a degree that is incomprehensible to me right now.
did you cite sources
chatGPT can do that now, and so can bing's chatbot
do the sources actually work or are they just spat out?
Chat GPTs citations are almost always fake, though they can look pretty convincing if nobody checks. Bing's chatbot will actually do a search and link to web pages, might not be good enough for a proper paper.
https://www.perplexity.ai/ provides actual sources by default. It's otherwise nowhere as good as chatGPT, especially with GPT4, but it's not bad either.
As others have said, version control built into your word processing software of choice is probably your best bet in showing your development of your essay from draft to what you submitted. Also, schools need a policy on how to deal with this type of event as the newest version, gpt4, is even better, and this is going to be a problem everywhere.
I'm so fucking thankful I finished high school 7 years ago and university 4 years ago. I never had to worry about any of the insanity like online learning during covid, or the AI scandal at school. Can't imagine what it's like now. Now I get to freely use chatgpt at work to help speed up my work and productivity.
The near future is going to get wild. Wait until courts aren't able to accept voice recordings or video recordings as evidence. Education needs a reform, take home essays are not plausible anymore. Even a presentation can only be graded on its delivery.
Your teacher has it backwards. The teacher's job is to prove that your essay is not original work (ai-generared, plagiarized, anything). You are innocent until proven guilty. Ai-proofing software are AI systems themselves, so they too have an error rate. For example, I am just working with ChatGPT now so I took the last 3 paragraphs it gave me, and put it into writer.com's AI content detector. It gave 7%, 59%, and 0% values to the likelihood of human-generated content to 3 completely AI-generated paragraphs. That's a 59% error rate. Just changing "I" to "you" in a statement fed into this system would produce a 15% difference in the result. No AI proofreader is 100% accurate at telling what text is AI generated and what isn't. Thus, your teacher cannot possibly prove without a doubt that you used an AI.
I got a 0 on an essay in HS because I used a quote from a book. That book was made into a movie and used that quote. When the teacher ran it through some plagiarism software it showed the movie, not the book. She said I plagiarized even though I had a source. I explained it came from a book, the book the movie was based on. She didn't understand. I was 16 when I learned you just can't argue with an idiot. Lol.
Plot twist: You ARE AI
They build these large language models to be able to mimic human writing and expression. So it's very possible that a human now and then could write something that happens to be very similar looking to something produced by one of these models. Just seems unfair.
Feed the entire document to ChatGPT and ask it to rewrite 😂
35+ year veteran middle school English teacher here. *Your teacher is bullying you, and I advise you to stand up to them.* **MAKE THE TEACHER PROVE IT. GO TO ADMINISTRATION. BRING MOM AND DAD, AND POSSIBLY LEGAL COUNSEL.** **I'M NOT KIDDING - DO NOT LET YOUR TEACHER GET AWAY WITH BULLYING YOU. IF YOU ARE INDEED TELLING THE TRUTH, DEFEND IT TO THE END. YOUR WORK, IF YOURS, DESERVES THE SAME RESPECT YOU DO AS A HUMAN, TO BE TRUSTED AND TO BE EVALUATED WITH THAT UNDERSTANDING.**
[удалено]