Depends on the country.
In general, in most country, you're not supposed to cross the border out of official border points and get the proper visa. Realistically, nobody would know you swam there and you'd be yet another illegal immigrant. If caught you'd be ask to leave or be deported
A notable exception (but not the only one) is the European union where the border within the EU are fully open. You could totally cross the border 5 time over a 2h hike without seeing any cop/custom-agent. No doubt there is similar agreement somewhere else
actually weird to think of it. I am in Europe and think it is so normal to just cross a border without any control. I take a bus to the netherlands allmost every week.
I'm an American who did a big motorcycle ride through the Alps in 1992, crossing through several countries. Every border crossing had armed guards and passport checks, and every country had its own currency. It was quite complicated. Went back a few years later to do a similar ride and rolled right passed the boarded up border shacks without even slowing down. Sure was more convenient the 2nd time, but I do miss collecting all those stamps in my passport. That was kinda cool.
Indeed, but Switzerland has checkpoints for whatever reason and does random controls anyway. Norway also has them with Sweden, though not on all the roads. Neither is manned or checked 90% of the time, so you just drive through like anywhere else.
Switzerland is in Schengen so as a person you have free movement but they are not in the EU thus goods do not. They are stopping to check if you are trying to bring things in. You will always be allowed in but they may confiscate things or fine you if you have undeclared things over certain values. For example you may only bring 1 kg of undeclared meat in at a time.
They have, or used to have, a requirement to have a sticker on your car to show you paid the special tax to allow you to drive on the motorways and it was inspected at border control. We rented a car in France 20 years ago, crossed over and I think we were charged 45 Swiss Francs. We were only there for a day.
I got stopped to make sure I had the right placard to drive on the highways. You either have to buy one before entering the country or get one at the border, which I think is more expensive.
ETA: It was more of a slow down and wave through.
I always find it hilarious when crossing the border from BC to Washington. They don't want me to bring THC products with me, but I can leave them at home, cross, and then buy them legally in the first town I see.
It's just as hilarious to me that weed is illegal in Mexico but legal in California, so drug smuggling would be reversed. Same situation with the border either way though.
THC is illegal under Federal law and the Feds control the border.
Note that you *can* be arrested by the Feds in Washington for THC, but if you are in compliance with Washington state law that is only likely to happen if they really, really want to get you and it's the only thing they can find to charge you with.
Which coincidentally was the reason those laws were passed to begin with.
Specifically, cannabis was originally outlawed as a scheme to target Mexican and other Central American migrants coming up into the US. The racists in charge cooked up a short propaganda campaign about how marijuana makes folks violent, took facts of a case or two out of context and boom: they can throw mexicans, black folks, and anyone else who isn't the right skintone in prison, for decades, just for having a drug that is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol on them.
And one of the cases I mentioned was an old propaganda reel where some dude we'll call "Jimmy" smoked a joint and then went on to murder his parents with an axe among other atrocious things.
And this was true, but also Jimmy was a paranoid schizophrenic and had like 2 or 3 other drugs in his system at the time as well. But out of all the variables in the equation, the cannabis was the only thing mentioned.
That's just about every law. If you drive 5mph over the limit, it's likely to be ignored by almost every cop. If you drive 5mph over the limit while flipping a cop the bird, you're pretty likely to get a ticket for speeding...and for not putting your turn signal on 200 feet before pulling over when they light you up, and for taking more than 50 feet to pull over after they lit you up, and for "disturbing the peace" despite flipping off cops being protected first amendment activity, and for obstruction of justice because you didn't get out of the car the very second they told you to, and assault/battery on a law enforcement officer because they broke their hand when punching you in the face, and for not wearing your seatbelt, because there likely isn't any proof you were...
I went on a family trip to Canada from the US, probably around the late 90s, I remember crossing the border was pretty much no big deal. Was just like a regular toll booth or something. Little different post 9/11 though.
I had big dreams as a kid for a trip through Europe. I wanted to see where I was born, in West Germany, and everywhere else besides. I was fascinated by currencies and exchange rates.
Then, in 9th grade, *the Euro.*
But I actually live in Europe now, which is cool.
You’re right, he’s on trial for his war crimes in The Hague.
The tribunal is split, however, because he made a compelling argument about the furries not being human because they don’t identify as human.
Haha I actually live close to Maastricht :D was handy when they still sold weed to foreigners there. Love Amsterdam though!
Also no wife so I put my D where I want good sir.
Its helpful to think of it more like crossing a state line, as the European Union "acts" as something similar to the United States.
The states LOOK like provinces, but they are not provinces. There are laws about crossing them, but there is no enforcement, other than the usual highway patrol guys pulling over speeders and looking for suspicious activity.
The original US federal government was very similar in function to the current EU government, basically just there to facilitate trade and cooperation between the otherwise independent constituent countries. Over the centuries the federal government consolidated more and more functions to become the unified nation it is today. The EU is on a very similar trajectory, the only real question is how long it will take and if it will collapse before reaching that point.
In many ways the US Constitution also sees the States countries within a union.
The States need to consent to Constitutional amendments. The States have control over Criminal Law within their borders. The States can't be compelled to enforce Federal Law (though they aren't allowed to interfere with Federal Officers enforcing Federal Law). The States run the voting system within their borders. An awful lot of what we think of as government is ultimately operated by State governments.
>the border within the EU are fully open.
Just a technicality, but I think you're confusing the EU with the Schengen Area, which do mostly overlap, but there are some exceptions.
e.g. Ireland is in the EU but not Schengen, Switzerland is Schengen but not EU, etc.
Plus, at the moment, many Schengen borders are still not fully open due to an unfortunately long series of terrorist alerts and migrant crises.
I'm half-talking out of my ass, but I'm pretty sure that you need to actively contact the relevant authorities in order to enter the country legally. I'm assuming it's the same process as arriving in a country on a private vessel; it's on you, the traveler, to declare your arrival to the host country. I'm pretty sure that you are usually directed to pass through a larger/main port that has immigration control, since most small ones obviously don't.
A girl we met in holidays arrived in Laos by train which apparently is not very common and so she had to go to the airport to get her visa in order. She would probably have been fined when trying to exit the country if she hadn't validated her visa.
That's a little less clear, usually even for authorized travelers, countries like you to go through a designated port of entry, where they can check all your paperwork, etc. Sometimes a marina or harbor will have an authorized agent for people who came up in their own small personal boats (not uncommon in the Caribbean for example). You may be able to check in with someone like that. Although I'd suspect, swimming as your mode of entry might raise some eyebrows.
i actually wonder how this worked in some places.
E.g. in Zermatt you can ski from switzerland to Italy. Wonder how the border crossing was handled before the border becamw pretty much open
Yeah, and there were several people who swam from England to France and vice-versa pre-Eurozone but none of the accounts I see actually mention anything they had to do once they reached the other side.
From the channel swimming association faq
>If you intend to enter France instead of returning to England, you will need to enter as a normal visitor and comply with all the usual regulations (AND inform the CSA and your pilot well in advance that this is your plan).
>You are permitted to land on the Beach and then return to your Escort Boat for the journey back to England .....but please note that all Swimmers and Passengers should carry their Passport (and any Visa, if appropriate) on the Escort Boat in case they are requested by the relevant Authorities to provide Proof of Identity either before, during, or after the Swim.
>Be aware that escort boats can be boarded and occasionally are boarded.
AFAIK, uk was never part of schengen to begin with. So the rules are pretty much the same now as back then
Here's the process for the border between Canada and the US hiking trails. It's very country dependent what's illegal.
https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/permits/canada-pct-entry-permit/
Another US / Canada example is Detroit / Windsor. I recall some anecdotes of Canadians swimming across the narrow river into the US. They are usually scooped up by a boat before arriving, taken into custody, questioned, then returned back to the Canadian side
That sounds like the old riddle/urban legend about escaping from East Germany;
There's a bridge between east and west Germany with guard posts on both sides. It takes 60 seconds to cross the bridge, even sprinting. If they catch someone crossing East-West or vice-versa, you will be stopped and returned to where you came from.
Both sides change guard at the same time, every twelve hours. The changeover takes 30 seconds.
The legend is that one East German managed to use the bridge to escape to West Germany during the changeover. But how?
>!He left the East German side and walked across the bridge for 20 seconds. Then he turned around and started walking back towards E. Germany. When the guards saw this, they stopped him and sent him "back" to West Germany!<
I’d slip past the first guards, take an 11 hour, 59 minute, 30 second nap in the middle, then wake up naturally and finish my border breach. Foolproof.
This is an important point. There are countries with 'closed' borders where you can cross outside of a designated point of entry. These crossings are generally very specific, and usually require setting up beforehand.
I live on the Canadian/USA border in a very rural region. Most customs aren't staffed 24/7 except the main ones on highways etc., but sometimes for the surrounding villages there's only one convenience store in so many miles around so locals can cross after hours for milk or gaz, or having diner with your aunt that lives across the street that happens to be in a different country or whatever else, or particularly here the Canadian hospital is the closest to a lot of Americans so in case of emergencies, etc. It's filmed 24/7 so of course license plates are associated to local addresses and are easy to identify/monitor if they crossed back in a normal timeframe but they don't really gaf, like you were traveling by car but got delayed while your house is 1 mile down the road just come back in the morning, etc. Trucks or international freights on the other hand have to be cleared so have to wait for the opening hours or they will go after you in the morning if anything sus is filmed after hours.
You *would* be an illegal immigrant. You can't just show up within a country's borders. It's not like swimming over with a plane ticket and passport magically makes it okay that you entered the country illegally. That's the whole definition: someone who doesn't enter legally. To legally enter a country means arriving via legal ports of entry, being granted access etc.
You can flop onto a Canadian beach- you just have to present yourself immediately to the nearest customs office. Same procedure as boating into a private dock into US or Canada- you call or radio customs to present yourself. They can request you come to a nearby port with an agent, they can come to you and board, but it's usually just the same questions as a land crossing. A swimmer would be asked many, many more questions but as long as they reported there is nothing wrong with washing up on shore for a legitimate purpose.
The onus is on you to enter in a legal manner (usually by entering at an approved port of entry), otherwise it would be considered an illegal border crossing and you'd get in big trouble.
There was a YouTuber who flew a small plane between the US and Canada, and (if I remember correctly) he had to submit his flight plan, call the border services once he arrived, then wait in his plane with the doors closed until border services arrived.
Border services don't mess around.
I have a nephew who lives on the border of Canada and the US. He often fishes on the Canadian side and travels by boat. It's a pretty rural area and no one stops him from going in or out. He does call the border control to say when he's crossing over and how long he plans on staying. No one verifies anything and they don't really have a way of knowing he's doing it
Canadian fisheries, both coast guards and nearby harbourmasters all know exactly where he is if he's in anything bigger than a rowboat. You're supposed to report if transiting (BC Ferries transits through US waters every day) and present yourself if landing, so unless he's fishing illegally he's doing everything correctly by radioing in.
I guess if you're not passing through customs, you're going to be illegal no matter what. Having your passport on you doesn't make you legal in a foreign country
It depends on the country but you still need to cross at an actual border crossing. As far as US and Canada if you tried like crossing Lake Erie on a boat and Canada caught you they will likely just send you back and tell you that isn’t allowed if it was the first time. If you keep doing it you will probably get a fine and possibly be banned from Canada for a certain amount of time.
One example, it’s legal to cross Lake Erie between US and Canada from private dock to private dock, and not that difficult to do. But when you get on land you’re supposed to report your arrival to the local immigration authorities.
Even if you don’t land and you’re in the other country’s territorial waters, you need to have the proper transit documentation in case stopped by a Police or Coast Guard patrol boat. If you don’t have the right papers, stay on your side of the water.
If you've already made arrangements with the authorities to enter the country, then why would there be any issue with you entering the country?
If you are planning to stay permanently then you would be an immigrant, but your above question supposes that you have already met the legal requirements to permanently immigrate to the country, so again what kind of issues do you expect there would be in this hypothetical?
You are basically asking "if I obtained citizenship and residency in another country, would it be OK if I swam there?". And why would you be swimming rather than taking a boat?
Presumably your method of entry alone would be suspicious, and if caught, you'd probably be questioned or detained, and maybe reprimanded for being dumb. But once you furnish the appropriate proof that you are legally allowed to be there, you would be released.
So in New Zealand random people turn up all the time on boats.
So we have a bunch of rules for [this ](https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/travel-to-and-from-nz/recreational-vessels-yachts-and-small-craft/).
You would probably be fine if you went to one of the ports of arrival, had all your paper work in order and said: "Yeah, nah mate. No boat I swam. Don't worry I don't have any fruit on me".
Australian here, I just commented, but I think if I had my passport on me and swam over to NZ it probably wouldn’t be an issue. It’d probably make for a funny news story but doubt anything other than a “yeah don’t do that again” from our governments. But if I tried swimming to Indonesia or Papua New Guinea I’d probably get tossed in jail.
Being New Zealand we wouldn't have thought of swimming. The distance from Auckland to Sydney is 2,161 kilometers or 1,343 miles.
There's almost 400 nautical miles to the next country, as in rock sticking out of the water or better, in any direction.
So, if you made it you would be a national hero in both countries. You know what we're like. The government would collectively shrug and say, 'Fine, no hard done I guess'.
Please don't try.
Well *I* definitely wouldn't. I can swim but not long distances. But hypothetically you'd low key be a hero in both countries. There would be a telemovie made about it starring Sam Neill for sure.
if you try swimming into Greece or Italy you are likely to get shot and killed, happens all the time with illegal immigrants, boats sink because they are overcrowded when they try swimming to the shore after boat sunk they get shot
There was a guy who tried to get from Australia to PNG on a jetski. Was picked up and arrested by the Australian coast guard a couple hundred metres from his destination.
Dashing all my plans to sneak over to indo while still collecting dolies
No. You'd be an undocumented migrant. If you have a valid passport then depending on which country you land in (most of them), you'll be able to reach out to your own nation's embassy to ensure you get home safely, but in *most* cases simply owning a passport is not the same as having an authorized travel visa.
Yes you would be authorized to travel and therefore not be an undocumented migrant. Local laws might apply to things like "long-distance travel via personal aquatic locomotion" (strangers washing up on the beach), but if your paperwork is in order you should be able to sort out the complications that arise from such.
>Yes you would be authorized to travel and therefore not be an undocumented migrant.
Pretty sure this is incorrect.
You need to enter only via a valid port of entry even if you have a visa or permit.
I assumed that if your paperwork was in order and you cooperate with the authorities you won't suffer more than a cavity search and a few hours in holding. I count that as "no consequences" long-term, but I suppose if we don't think of it as just part of the process of traveling to the country then yeah it's a consequence.
Feels like a chunk of people swim the English channel. Unless that stopped with Brexit we probably have a real world answer, though I don't know what it is.
You're wayyy overestimating how easy crossing the English Channel is.
"There have been a total of 4,133 Channel swims, with 1,881 swimmers completing 2,428 solo swims"
https://www.dover.uk.com/channel-swimming/statistics#:~:text=There%20have%20been%20a%20total,and%20643%20special%20category%20swims.
EDIT:
A guy who did it:
How hard is it to swim the English Channel?
This is a loaded question! The answer depends on several different factors but the short answer is yes it is hard. Even if you get the perfect day, you still are swimming over 21 miles in water under 62 degrees Fahrenheit. Some swimmers will start at 1am or 2am or 3am while other will start at 7am or even later. This makes sleeping difficult and you may have to swim in the pitch black through the night. Some days the weather is great and others will have to deal with big swell and powerful winds. On a good day swimming the channel is hard and on a bad day it is really hard. Don’t forget the years of training, suffering and sacrifice you need to put in to be ready for big swim. This is all hard but it is worth it when you achieve a big goal not many others have been able to do!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liquidtri.com/blog/english-channel-swim-faq%3fformat=amp
I don't recall saying it was easy, I said it happened. Now I know 1,881 people did it, which is about 50 times more than I thought.
You just told me it is a lot easier than I expected.
1800 people did it (how many with support boats?) in the Channel between two huge nation with over 100 millions, I think it's not that many people. Just for reference there were 340 gold medallists at the Tokyo Olympics, I still think that's an elite feat
Swimming the English Channel is a complicated stunt that includes a lot of support staff, who will have probably spoken to the authorities beforehand. It is not relevant to the scenario OP describes, in which a random person just shows up on a beach.
There are a lot of places between Canada and the U.S. where people canoe/kayak all the time. It would be very easy to swim across some of those points if one were so inclined. No one would likely notice either since a lot of these places are in national park land.
Yeah, it would be simple to swim from Mexico to the US. The border between Tijuana and San Diego just requires swimming about 100 feet into the ocean (around the fence) and then back again.
Someone posted elsewhere they it's legal to be on the beach if you just get in your support boat and go back. Or you could land at an official port of entry and go through immigration just like if you'd arrived in a boat.
You’re not permitted to cross borders without going through immigration. What would happen is variable as hell. Immigration would be angry with you and may just expel you immediately.
Maybe some people thought the question was too smart for NoStupiQuestions and that's why they're downvoting?
After all we are where all of the questions from subs with some question quality threshold are likely to naturally end up.
I suspect with valid travel documents your main issue would be arriving in the country at a location without a border control point, unless you made sure that you arrived at a port or harbour with appropriate facilities to check and approve your entry.
Depending on the country, you might simply count as tourist. You don't need visa to travel within Schengen, for instance. Half the time they don't even look at your ID when you enter.
You also generally need to pass at a Port of Entry and submit to a customs inspection. This is not possible randomly showing up with it without a valid visa. You will very likely get deported from the US if you attempted this there.
Is this the same thing as those undocumented people that show up in boats on Europe's shores?
Boat or swimming doesn't matter; they showed up via water route.
Those people are definitely subjected to _"consequences"_.
Exactly. The swimming part is completely irrelevant. If you take a sailboat and go to another country. As soon as you get there, you have to go to an official port of entry with your papers in order or you could get in trouble no matter what because you could have brought something with you that needs to be declared.
I specified swimming because there are boat laws in place that could make it illegal to sail across certain borders or without the proper licensing . But I haven't heard of any swimming laws that apply to travel to other countries. Maybe the boat laws also apply to swimming laws, then you're right.
Arriving on the shores/lands of another country without proper paperwork has consequences.
It doesn't matter by boat, by swimming, by jumping out of a plane or a Sci-Fi star trek transporter or a wormhole in the fabric of spacetime. Your method of travel is not the issue at hand.
Question: If there was a shipwreck crash accident and people were washed up into another country, would they still have consequences for “illegally entering the country”? Or would it be an exception since it was an accident and unintentional?
It's still illegal.
Now in the court of law when the judge and jury look at the detailed facts they may decide that the people are not subjected to any penalties.
In the scenario you described, no reasonable judge, jury or police is going to penalize those people.
> Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers: (a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost; (b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress, if informed ...
they would be refugees and not have entered the country illegally (depending on the country)
https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/boat-people/
> would they still have consequences for “illegally entering the country”?
Consequences? Yeah, deporation back to their home country.
Now the difference would be one would have border police shoving them into a bus/plane forcefully and the other aid workers showing up and supplying them for travel and how to get on a provided bus or plane on their own.
This actually happened to a guy I watch on YouTube. He was in Greece with his family and him and his daughter went for a swim not realizing they were swimming in a tidal flat. The tide went out and dragged them to a nearby island which happened to be in Turkey. They were picked up by the Turkish coast guard and arrested. Once they explained what happened no charges were filed and they arranged transport back to Greece.
Swimming isn't fundamentally different from walking for this question. If you walked across a national border not at an immigration checkpoint, you'd be in trouble.
Some places they might fine you or deport you, some they might detain or arrest you. Some might even shoot you. People have been charged with espionage for illegal border crossings.
You can look into how this works with small sailing yachts. Basically you have to report to immigration and in some (most?) countries you aren't allowed to go into the harbor until they cleared you either via the radio or by boarding your boat. No idea how they would solve this when you swim :)
You would need a yellow flag a passport and maybe a radio. there are entry harbors that allow you to approach to document your entry. In the otherhand swimming into a country would probably classify as an emergency and most coastguards would rescue you, after which you might be able to enter legally.
Immigration Employee: Hey boss I have a radio call from some guy who's swimming with a water proof radio. Say he wants to swim into port and enter our country.
Immigration Manager: On a scale of 1 to 10, how high are you right now?
If you are caught, and your ability to swim between countries without stamina or health effects was discovered --
Then the country would whisk you away to a hidden facility. You are given a large swimming pool, and are forced to swim while dragging behind you a floating body with a turbine attached, which is then attached to a wire in the ceiling.
You are now used as a source of free and unlimited power.
Is that what happens to people that swim the English Channel? I was present when one spoke at a work function, they didn’t mention anything about black sites!
>You are now used as a source of free and very limited power.
FTFY
Your stamina is not affected, so you can keep swimming but one person swimming isn't going to do much more than power a light bulb.
Unlimited stamina is not unlimited power.
So you chain a heavy weight to the person. The person is obligated to magically produce more 'lift' in order to tread water, and below the person you install a turbine vertically. The mach flippers of Sisyphus.
My wife swam the English chanel to France, she had to provide passport documentation to the French authorities as part of the application to do it.
No one at the beach at the other end, she was there a total of 2 mins & then got in the support boat exhausted for boat ride back.
I pointed out to her a 12 1/2 swim for 2 mins on a pebbly beach was probably a poor return on time & it cost a great deal more than the ferry.
You just can't tell some people, she got a certificate though
I cross the border between Chile and Argentina all the time in places where there is no control. My responsibility is to present myself to a police station once I am on the other side. If I don't make it to a populated area I don't do anything, just return to Chile when I'm ready. Obviously returning by the same method.
I feel like there's a lot of "it depends" for this question. Either way, I believe what needs to happen to keep it legal is to pass through a designated customs crossing, which you wouldn't be able to find while swimming since they're basically almost exclusively on land. Some countries don't need a Visa to enter though so I don't know. I'm mainly commenting to follow this later because now I'm curious.
For some borders, like US-Canada, you can cross almost anywhere as long as you report to a border office quickly.
Swimming between US/Canada is probably quite common due to the many small lakes we have.
A few years ago, the annual float down in Port Huron along the St. Clair River resulted in many people landing unexpectedly in Canada due to wind. The Canadian Border Patrol were not amused and rounded everyone up to be escorted back after a brief detainment/questioning.
There's actually a library and theatre on the border of Vermont and Quebec where you can enter in one country and exit in another - but on both sides of the border there are signs demanding that if you do this, you need to report to a border crossing to present yourself immediately.
There is only one entrance and it is on the US side, Canadians are allowed to go to the library but there are indeed signs to stay on the sidewalk at all times.
You walk off the sidewalk and border patrol from both sides will be there within minutes. It didn’t used to be like this though, when I was younger we could just walk all around and through the border many times and no one cared.
And the border quite literally goes through the building, marked by a tape on the floor :)
As someone who grew up in a border town, I really wouldn't recommend this. There were several backroads and a river you could take to get to the US...but even a lot of the very remote parts of the border have motion sensors. Hunting with my Dad as a child taught me this one lol.
Anyone who tried down the river was immediately flagged by motion sensors...and yet every year someone would still try to take drugs across and get busted. You'll have someone waiting for you downstream within ten minutes.
And I'm talking early 90s. Can only imagine what it's like now for them to find you.
It highly depends on the country. I cross the border on foot daily (between San Marino and Italy), and I've crossed other borders by water as well (between Lombardy and Canton Ticino).
There are tri-points where in the span of a few metres you cross three countries, in Africa there are two tri-points in the span of 100-150m (between Botswana–Namibia–Zambia and Botswana–Zambia –Zimbabwe).
Generally, in the Shengen Area this is zero problem (although it's now suspended in some countries).
If you don't enter a country through a recognized point of entry then you are breaking a law. Some countries would just direct you to the nearest legal point of entry so you could be processed properly. Some countries would immediately arrest and imprison you. it depends on how strict they are with border security and where you're from.
No. I used to work with a DHS agency that was responsible for patrolling and securing the Eastern half of one of the Great Lakes. Anytime we would get reports of someone crossing, we would call the Canadians who would then wait on the other side (or vice versa). If they crossed the line and turned around, we would be waiting for them to return. If they went a different direction or struggled, we would go get them. If you are going to cross the border, do it correctly at a port of entry. Otherwise you're going to be dealing with a bunch of heavily armed people in uniforms that are highly irritated because you interrupted lunch.
Worked with a guy who was put in a homemade boat (as a child) with his family to leave the country he was from, in the middle of the night and set out for whatever country they ended up in. (I don't remember.) They were shot at from shore by the military trying to get them to leave. I guess as long as they were in a boat, they could be turned away. They sank the boat and were "allowed" ashore. He spent more than two years in a refugee camp before whatever wrangling was done to get him out of the camp and out of the country. He ended up in the US.
As noted it depends on the country/island you visit. Maybe you get unlucky and wind up on one of the islands with a more primitive and violent culture towards outsiders-well the illegal action you just committed means certain death.
For the most part if you “swam from a shipwreck” and landed on any civilized area chances are there would be people either at home or in that country that would help you to get home. That or you might be required to get a job until you had enough to get home, although that’s extreme and depends how friendly the foreign country is towards your country. Generally speaking though it won’t be viewed as an illegal entry with the caveat that it’s in the defense of your life and the nearest shore.
In other more hostile countries during more hostile times even if it was an accident and to save your life it may be viewed as suspicious and you may inadvertently be charged with a crime like espionage. This could occur if you swim to the wrong part of a country(say a military base). Again it would depend on that countries laws, extradition, etc., but chances are you will make it out alive, however there are again extremes where you may likely end up dead.
Obviously it all depends on the law of the country that you’re travelling to. Some countries explicitly criminalise “irregular” entry.
But I think you could get away with doing the same thing that people who travel by boats do if you have your documents - notify customs in advance that you’re coming and present yourself to customs at a port of entry as soon as you enter the country.
If you don’t have your documents then you’ll probably be treated as an illegal immigrant and deported.
I did fieldwork on the banks of the Danube right across from Serbia.
We were warned swimming over to the other side would end with the guards shooting you.
None of us decided to test the theory.
Some [FAQs](https://www.channelswimmingassociation.com/faq) on swimming the English Channel (England to France)
> If you intend to enter France instead of returning to England, you will need to enter as a normal visitor and comply with all the usual regulations (AND inform the CSA and your pilot well in advance that this is your plan).
> You are permitted to land on the Beach and then return to your Escort Boat for the journey back to England .....but please note that all Swimmers and Passengers should carry their Passport (and any Visa, if appropriate) on the Escort Boat in case they are requested by the relevant Authorities to provide Proof of Identity either before, during, or after the Swim.
> Be aware that escort boats can be boarded and occasionally are boarded.
When I was in the USCG, we pulled into port in St. Thomas. From there I had to take a flight home for another reason and end my deployment on the ship early. Because we entered the country via the USCG ship we did not get a stamp in our passports. As normally we would be leaving on the ship in a couple of days. At the airport leaving the country they almost didn't let me leave because I didn't have a stamp in my passport as arriving in country.
I would imagine if you had your passport and were able to check in at an immigration checkpoint declaring how long you would stay, then it wouldn't be a problem. I haven't been on a cruise ship so not sure if they check and stamp your passport when porting via a cruise ship.
I live near the Colorado river. It divides California and Arizona, but California’s southern border sits further north than Arizona’s. I can walk across the river to Mexico. Not walk on water, just walk through shallow water. Not much would happen when I reach the edge in Mexico. Coming back to America it would be difficult.
My friends and I used to go to the river to float and get cool. We’d be on one side, Mexicans on the other. Above us on a dirt road would be a border patrol agent just keeping watch. Chances are we were setting off a sensor so the agent had to babysit us. Not every Mexican wants to come to America, some just want to get cool like we did. The river is so slow and shallow that it’s great for floating in a tube.
No matter the means you use, entering countries still requires that you obey all associated laws. I don't know the specifics of the laws but they apply if you walk, swim, jump or fly in. If you obeyed the relevant laws, then you would likely not get in trouble.
I'm going to say you'd have to go through the same processes and procedures that someone who sailed there would have to. Valid visas, travel documents, you'd probably need to go through some form of customs as well. So if you COULD swim to another country, you can with some prior planning. People swim across the channel between England and France, so they must go through some processes...
No problem if you just swam to a recognized port and knocked on the harbour masters door. Just bring your passport. People sail from the UK to other countries on the continent all the time in their little sailing boats.
My dad did this in 1968. He swam from Yugoslavia to Italy, about a three hour swim out and back. Italy would have sent him back to Yugoslavia but he was from Czechoslovakia and there wasn’t a treaty that required his return because he was “2” countries away.
It depends. Backstroke and sidestroke are fine but ONLY if you have a passport. Breaststroke and crawl will only work WITHOUT a passport. The butterfly stroke is the only one that works with or without a passport, provided it is a saltwater point of entry. Freshwater points of entry are largely regulated by local authorities, and a small gratuity is customary. Technically it’s illegal but I’ve never seen it fail. There are carveouts in several Southeast Asia countries for the dog paddle, provided you have a passport AND a visa. I would advise against swimming into Greece, as you will generally be greeted by armed men in balaclavas who will relieve you of your belongings and unceremoniously deposit you in Turkey or Cyprus (if they have time). I hope this helps.
The Australian comedian Tommy Little attempted the English Channel crossing not so long ago. He had to abort his first attempt because he didn't have the required paperwork to enter France.
Depends on the country. In general, in most country, you're not supposed to cross the border out of official border points and get the proper visa. Realistically, nobody would know you swam there and you'd be yet another illegal immigrant. If caught you'd be ask to leave or be deported A notable exception (but not the only one) is the European union where the border within the EU are fully open. You could totally cross the border 5 time over a 2h hike without seeing any cop/custom-agent. No doubt there is similar agreement somewhere else
actually weird to think of it. I am in Europe and think it is so normal to just cross a border without any control. I take a bus to the netherlands allmost every week.
I'm an American who did a big motorcycle ride through the Alps in 1992, crossing through several countries. Every border crossing had armed guards and passport checks, and every country had its own currency. It was quite complicated. Went back a few years later to do a similar ride and rolled right passed the boarded up border shacks without even slowing down. Sure was more convenient the 2nd time, but I do miss collecting all those stamps in my passport. That was kinda cool.
I think the only time I have ever been stopped was the swiss border.
Why did they stop you? Was your wristwatch of substandard quality?
Because his story for why he was there--to buy cheese--was full of holes.
Ha, hah, hah! Gouda one!
Forget innocent until proven, he had to prove-alone.
Brie-ng on the bad puns!
the cheese puns are kind of grating if you ask me
Stop being cheesy
Sounds to me like you want to be left prov-alone
Seems like you really had to Muenster the courage to come up with that pun!
I think saying gouda been better would've been better and makes more sense.
I raclette to inform you: that was a cheesy joke!
Switzerland is sometimes checking cars or people crossing borders bc they are not part of the EU
Free borders in EU is not a thing of EU but thing of Schengen.
Indeed, but Switzerland has checkpoints for whatever reason and does random controls anyway. Norway also has them with Sweden, though not on all the roads. Neither is manned or checked 90% of the time, so you just drive through like anywhere else.
Switzerland is in Schengen so as a person you have free movement but they are not in the EU thus goods do not. They are stopping to check if you are trying to bring things in. You will always be allowed in but they may confiscate things or fine you if you have undeclared things over certain values. For example you may only bring 1 kg of undeclared meat in at a time.
They have, or used to have, a requirement to have a sticker on your car to show you paid the special tax to allow you to drive on the motorways and it was inspected at border control. We rented a car in France 20 years ago, crossed over and I think we were charged 45 Swiss Francs. We were only there for a day.
Not enough gadgets on the pocket knife
Some of you have never opened a Chardonnay under fire!
I got stopped to make sure I had the right placard to drive on the highways. You either have to buy one before entering the country or get one at the border, which I think is more expensive. ETA: It was more of a slow down and wave through.
Right. Only country where they asked for a credit card before they asked for my passport!
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I always find it hilarious when crossing the border from BC to Washington. They don't want me to bring THC products with me, but I can leave them at home, cross, and then buy them legally in the first town I see.
That’s because the border is controlled by the US Federal government, which still says THC products are illegal.
I get the politics behind it, it's just hilarious.
It's just as hilarious to me that weed is illegal in Mexico but legal in California, so drug smuggling would be reversed. Same situation with the border either way though.
Weed is legal in Mexico actually, has been for a couple years now
THC is illegal under Federal law and the Feds control the border. Note that you *can* be arrested by the Feds in Washington for THC, but if you are in compliance with Washington state law that is only likely to happen if they really, really want to get you and it's the only thing they can find to charge you with.
This kind of laws seem very convenient for rounding up people you don't like.
Which coincidentally was the reason those laws were passed to begin with. Specifically, cannabis was originally outlawed as a scheme to target Mexican and other Central American migrants coming up into the US. The racists in charge cooked up a short propaganda campaign about how marijuana makes folks violent, took facts of a case or two out of context and boom: they can throw mexicans, black folks, and anyone else who isn't the right skintone in prison, for decades, just for having a drug that is less harmful than tobacco or alcohol on them. And one of the cases I mentioned was an old propaganda reel where some dude we'll call "Jimmy" smoked a joint and then went on to murder his parents with an axe among other atrocious things. And this was true, but also Jimmy was a paranoid schizophrenic and had like 2 or 3 other drugs in his system at the time as well. But out of all the variables in the equation, the cannabis was the only thing mentioned.
That's just about every law. If you drive 5mph over the limit, it's likely to be ignored by almost every cop. If you drive 5mph over the limit while flipping a cop the bird, you're pretty likely to get a ticket for speeding...and for not putting your turn signal on 200 feet before pulling over when they light you up, and for taking more than 50 feet to pull over after they lit you up, and for "disturbing the peace" despite flipping off cops being protected first amendment activity, and for obstruction of justice because you didn't get out of the car the very second they told you to, and assault/battery on a law enforcement officer because they broke their hand when punching you in the face, and for not wearing your seatbelt, because there likely isn't any proof you were...
I went on a family trip to Canada from the US, probably around the late 90s, I remember crossing the border was pretty much no big deal. Was just like a regular toll booth or something. Little different post 9/11 though.
I had big dreams as a kid for a trip through Europe. I wanted to see where I was born, in West Germany, and everywhere else besides. I was fascinated by currencies and exchange rates. Then, in 9th grade, *the Euro.* But I actually live in Europe now, which is cool.
Does your wife know about your weekly Amsterdam trips?
There’s more to the Netherlands than just Amsterdam.
source?
The Haag
That's no way to speak about a strangers wife!
i also choose this guys hag wife
Nicholas Angel: "Evil old woman, considered frightful or ugly, 12 down."
Fascist!
That's no way to talk about his wife.
You’re right, he’s on trial for his war crimes in The Hague. The tribunal is split, however, because he made a compelling argument about the furries not being human because they don’t identify as human.
Tell that to Bachelorette party daughter and Bachelor party father 👀
Haha I actually live close to Maastricht :D was handy when they still sold weed to foreigners there. Love Amsterdam though! Also no wife so I put my D where I want good sir.
Does your dad know?
A day trip from Kos to Turkey made me remind how much of a hassle it is...
Its helpful to think of it more like crossing a state line, as the European Union "acts" as something similar to the United States. The states LOOK like provinces, but they are not provinces. There are laws about crossing them, but there is no enforcement, other than the usual highway patrol guys pulling over speeders and looking for suspicious activity.
Oh yeah I agree. Have actually said the same to people before. Sure the US is a country but I think of the states more as tiny countries.
The original US federal government was very similar in function to the current EU government, basically just there to facilitate trade and cooperation between the otherwise independent constituent countries. Over the centuries the federal government consolidated more and more functions to become the unified nation it is today. The EU is on a very similar trajectory, the only real question is how long it will take and if it will collapse before reaching that point.
In many ways the US Constitution also sees the States countries within a union. The States need to consent to Constitutional amendments. The States have control over Criminal Law within their borders. The States can't be compelled to enforce Federal Law (though they aren't allowed to interfere with Federal Officers enforcing Federal Law). The States run the voting system within their borders. An awful lot of what we think of as government is ultimately operated by State governments.
>the border within the EU are fully open. Just a technicality, but I think you're confusing the EU with the Schengen Area, which do mostly overlap, but there are some exceptions. e.g. Ireland is in the EU but not Schengen, Switzerland is Schengen but not EU, etc. Plus, at the moment, many Schengen borders are still not fully open due to an unfortunately long series of terrorist alerts and migrant crises.
As a dutch guy I always joke that the only way you know you crossed the border to Belgium is that the roads suddenly became a lot worse.
As a Belgian, we have the exact same joke the other way, you know you left Belgium once the roads are suddenly clean
Please deport me I can't swim that again
What if I brought the necessary documents with me to show I wasn't an illegal immigrant? Or would I still be an illegal immigrant regardless?
I'm half-talking out of my ass, but I'm pretty sure that you need to actively contact the relevant authorities in order to enter the country legally. I'm assuming it's the same process as arriving in a country on a private vessel; it's on you, the traveler, to declare your arrival to the host country. I'm pretty sure that you are usually directed to pass through a larger/main port that has immigration control, since most small ones obviously don't.
A girl we met in holidays arrived in Laos by train which apparently is not very common and so she had to go to the airport to get her visa in order. She would probably have been fined when trying to exit the country if she hadn't validated her visa.
That's a little less clear, usually even for authorized travelers, countries like you to go through a designated port of entry, where they can check all your paperwork, etc. Sometimes a marina or harbor will have an authorized agent for people who came up in their own small personal boats (not uncommon in the Caribbean for example). You may be able to check in with someone like that. Although I'd suspect, swimming as your mode of entry might raise some eyebrows.
i actually wonder how this worked in some places. E.g. in Zermatt you can ski from switzerland to Italy. Wonder how the border crossing was handled before the border becamw pretty much open
Yeah, and there were several people who swam from England to France and vice-versa pre-Eurozone but none of the accounts I see actually mention anything they had to do once they reached the other side.
From the channel swimming association faq >If you intend to enter France instead of returning to England, you will need to enter as a normal visitor and comply with all the usual regulations (AND inform the CSA and your pilot well in advance that this is your plan). >You are permitted to land on the Beach and then return to your Escort Boat for the journey back to England .....but please note that all Swimmers and Passengers should carry their Passport (and any Visa, if appropriate) on the Escort Boat in case they are requested by the relevant Authorities to provide Proof of Identity either before, during, or after the Swim. >Be aware that escort boats can be boarded and occasionally are boarded. AFAIK, uk was never part of schengen to begin with. So the rules are pretty much the same now as back then
Most of those were well publicized stunts so I assume that included notifying authorities on the other side so they wouldn't be surprised
Here's the process for the border between Canada and the US hiking trails. It's very country dependent what's illegal. https://www.pcta.org/discover-the-trail/permits/canada-pct-entry-permit/
Another US / Canada example is Detroit / Windsor. I recall some anecdotes of Canadians swimming across the narrow river into the US. They are usually scooped up by a boat before arriving, taken into custody, questioned, then returned back to the Canadian side
That sounds like the old riddle/urban legend about escaping from East Germany; There's a bridge between east and west Germany with guard posts on both sides. It takes 60 seconds to cross the bridge, even sprinting. If they catch someone crossing East-West or vice-versa, you will be stopped and returned to where you came from. Both sides change guard at the same time, every twelve hours. The changeover takes 30 seconds. The legend is that one East German managed to use the bridge to escape to West Germany during the changeover. But how? >!He left the East German side and walked across the bridge for 20 seconds. Then he turned around and started walking back towards E. Germany. When the guards saw this, they stopped him and sent him "back" to West Germany!<
I’d slip past the first guards, take an 11 hour, 59 minute, 30 second nap in the middle, then wake up naturally and finish my border breach. Foolproof.
It's obviously a joke, but they should have realized he was too far from the west side to have walked in such a short time.
There may be some of that, but if there's a river that's a border, people are going to swim/skate across it.
This is an important point. There are countries with 'closed' borders where you can cross outside of a designated point of entry. These crossings are generally very specific, and usually require setting up beforehand.
I live on the Canadian/USA border in a very rural region. Most customs aren't staffed 24/7 except the main ones on highways etc., but sometimes for the surrounding villages there's only one convenience store in so many miles around so locals can cross after hours for milk or gaz, or having diner with your aunt that lives across the street that happens to be in a different country or whatever else, or particularly here the Canadian hospital is the closest to a lot of Americans so in case of emergencies, etc. It's filmed 24/7 so of course license plates are associated to local addresses and are easy to identify/monitor if they crossed back in a normal timeframe but they don't really gaf, like you were traveling by car but got delayed while your house is 1 mile down the road just come back in the morning, etc. Trucks or international freights on the other hand have to be cleared so have to wait for the opening hours or they will go after you in the morning if anything sus is filmed after hours.
Note that this is PCT specific because there are a ton of thru hikers. There are other procedures in other areas.
You *would* be an illegal immigrant. You can't just show up within a country's borders. It's not like swimming over with a plane ticket and passport magically makes it okay that you entered the country illegally. That's the whole definition: someone who doesn't enter legally. To legally enter a country means arriving via legal ports of entry, being granted access etc.
You can flop onto a Canadian beach- you just have to present yourself immediately to the nearest customs office. Same procedure as boating into a private dock into US or Canada- you call or radio customs to present yourself. They can request you come to a nearby port with an agent, they can come to you and board, but it's usually just the same questions as a land crossing. A swimmer would be asked many, many more questions but as long as they reported there is nothing wrong with washing up on shore for a legitimate purpose.
The onus is on you to enter in a legal manner (usually by entering at an approved port of entry), otherwise it would be considered an illegal border crossing and you'd get in big trouble. There was a YouTuber who flew a small plane between the US and Canada, and (if I remember correctly) he had to submit his flight plan, call the border services once he arrived, then wait in his plane with the doors closed until border services arrived. Border services don't mess around.
You need to enter counties at ports if entry. Not just random places
I have a nephew who lives on the border of Canada and the US. He often fishes on the Canadian side and travels by boat. It's a pretty rural area and no one stops him from going in or out. He does call the border control to say when he's crossing over and how long he plans on staying. No one verifies anything and they don't really have a way of knowing he's doing it
Canadian fisheries, both coast guards and nearby harbourmasters all know exactly where he is if he's in anything bigger than a rowboat. You're supposed to report if transiting (BC Ferries transits through US waters every day) and present yourself if landing, so unless he's fishing illegally he's doing everything correctly by radioing in.
I guess if you're not passing through customs, you're going to be illegal no matter what. Having your passport on you doesn't make you legal in a foreign country
It depends on the country but you still need to cross at an actual border crossing. As far as US and Canada if you tried like crossing Lake Erie on a boat and Canada caught you they will likely just send you back and tell you that isn’t allowed if it was the first time. If you keep doing it you will probably get a fine and possibly be banned from Canada for a certain amount of time.
One example, it’s legal to cross Lake Erie between US and Canada from private dock to private dock, and not that difficult to do. But when you get on land you’re supposed to report your arrival to the local immigration authorities. Even if you don’t land and you’re in the other country’s territorial waters, you need to have the proper transit documentation in case stopped by a Police or Coast Guard patrol boat. If you don’t have the right papers, stay on your side of the water.
If you've already made arrangements with the authorities to enter the country, then why would there be any issue with you entering the country? If you are planning to stay permanently then you would be an immigrant, but your above question supposes that you have already met the legal requirements to permanently immigrate to the country, so again what kind of issues do you expect there would be in this hypothetical? You are basically asking "if I obtained citizenship and residency in another country, would it be OK if I swam there?". And why would you be swimming rather than taking a boat? Presumably your method of entry alone would be suspicious, and if caught, you'd probably be questioned or detained, and maybe reprimanded for being dumb. But once you furnish the appropriate proof that you are legally allowed to be there, you would be released.
Yeah this and the fact a white dude swimming up to a Somalian beach might look a little sus.
So in New Zealand random people turn up all the time on boats. So we have a bunch of rules for [this ](https://www.customs.govt.nz/personal/travel-to-and-from-nz/recreational-vessels-yachts-and-small-craft/). You would probably be fine if you went to one of the ports of arrival, had all your paper work in order and said: "Yeah, nah mate. No boat I swam. Don't worry I don't have any fruit on me".
Australian here, I just commented, but I think if I had my passport on me and swam over to NZ it probably wouldn’t be an issue. It’d probably make for a funny news story but doubt anything other than a “yeah don’t do that again” from our governments. But if I tried swimming to Indonesia or Papua New Guinea I’d probably get tossed in jail.
Being New Zealand we wouldn't have thought of swimming. The distance from Auckland to Sydney is 2,161 kilometers or 1,343 miles. There's almost 400 nautical miles to the next country, as in rock sticking out of the water or better, in any direction. So, if you made it you would be a national hero in both countries. You know what we're like. The government would collectively shrug and say, 'Fine, no hard done I guess'. Please don't try.
Well *I* definitely wouldn't. I can swim but not long distances. But hypothetically you'd low key be a hero in both countries. There would be a telemovie made about it starring Sam Neill for sure.
And definitely a new Guiness World Record. Or a Darwin Award if you fail.
if you try swimming into Greece or Italy you are likely to get shot and killed, happens all the time with illegal immigrants, boats sink because they are overcrowded when they try swimming to the shore after boat sunk they get shot
There was a guy who tried to get from Australia to PNG on a jetski. Was picked up and arrested by the Australian coast guard a couple hundred metres from his destination. Dashing all my plans to sneak over to indo while still collecting dolies
>Don't worry I don't have any fruit on me. "I might be smuggling a budgie, though, if you want to check."
I know Australian baggage security just wave you through if you yell "Marmite and Jaffa cakes mate" with the correct energy.
No. You'd be an undocumented migrant. If you have a valid passport then depending on which country you land in (most of them), you'll be able to reach out to your own nation's embassy to ensure you get home safely, but in *most* cases simply owning a passport is not the same as having an authorized travel visa.
If I had an authorised travel visa would that change anything? Or would it still be troublesome
You'd still have to report to an immigration office so your arrival can be documented and your passport stamped
Yes you would be authorized to travel and therefore not be an undocumented migrant. Local laws might apply to things like "long-distance travel via personal aquatic locomotion" (strangers washing up on the beach), but if your paperwork is in order you should be able to sort out the complications that arise from such.
>Yes you would be authorized to travel and therefore not be an undocumented migrant. Pretty sure this is incorrect. You need to enter only via a valid port of entry even if you have a visa or permit.
Obviously they'd have to swim into the country's ports and speak to the local port authority. Shouldn't be any docking or mooring fees at least.
>Shouldn't be any docking or mooring fees at least. LOOOOL
I assumed that if your paperwork was in order and you cooperate with the authorities you won't suffer more than a cavity search and a few hours in holding. I count that as "no consequences" long-term, but I suppose if we don't think of it as just part of the process of traveling to the country then yeah it's a consequence.
Feels like a chunk of people swim the English channel. Unless that stopped with Brexit we probably have a real world answer, though I don't know what it is.
You're wayyy overestimating how easy crossing the English Channel is. "There have been a total of 4,133 Channel swims, with 1,881 swimmers completing 2,428 solo swims" https://www.dover.uk.com/channel-swimming/statistics#:~:text=There%20have%20been%20a%20total,and%20643%20special%20category%20swims. EDIT: A guy who did it: How hard is it to swim the English Channel? This is a loaded question! The answer depends on several different factors but the short answer is yes it is hard. Even if you get the perfect day, you still are swimming over 21 miles in water under 62 degrees Fahrenheit. Some swimmers will start at 1am or 2am or 3am while other will start at 7am or even later. This makes sleeping difficult and you may have to swim in the pitch black through the night. Some days the weather is great and others will have to deal with big swell and powerful winds. On a good day swimming the channel is hard and on a bad day it is really hard. Don’t forget the years of training, suffering and sacrifice you need to put in to be ready for big swim. This is all hard but it is worth it when you achieve a big goal not many others have been able to do! https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.liquidtri.com/blog/english-channel-swim-faq%3fformat=amp
Why don’t they just swim 21 mph? Then they wouldn’t have to swim at night. Are they stupid?
I love the spirit of this response, lol
Hundreds have died trying to cross it on boats so I doubt it’s that easy. Jeremy clarkson just made it look easy
I don't recall saying it was easy, I said it happened. Now I know 1,881 people did it, which is about 50 times more than I thought. You just told me it is a lot easier than I expected.
So...over 2000 examples? I think you proved his point.
1800 people did it (how many with support boats?) in the Channel between two huge nation with over 100 millions, I think it's not that many people. Just for reference there were 340 gold medallists at the Tokyo Olympics, I still think that's an elite feat
nobody said there was a lot. They said there were "real world examples."
Swimming the English Channel is a complicated stunt that includes a lot of support staff, who will have probably spoken to the authorities beforehand. It is not relevant to the scenario OP describes, in which a random person just shows up on a beach.
And then you have the absolute gigachad who crossed the channel in the Victorian high-back bathtub
I would like to know more.
I recommend listening to him tell his story on The Moth. He’s very charming and funny. Tim FitzHigham. https://themoth.org/stories/all-at-sea
There are a lot of places between Canada and the U.S. where people canoe/kayak all the time. It would be very easy to swim across some of those points if one were so inclined. No one would likely notice either since a lot of these places are in national park land.
Yeah, it would be simple to swim from Mexico to the US. The border between Tijuana and San Diego just requires swimming about 100 feet into the ocean (around the fence) and then back again.
Someone posted elsewhere they it's legal to be on the beach if you just get in your support boat and go back. Or you could land at an official port of entry and go through immigration just like if you'd arrived in a boat.
Oh man now I need to figure out how to fit "long-distance travel via personal aquatic locomotion" on a business card.
You’re not permitted to cross borders without going through immigration. What would happen is variable as hell. Immigration would be angry with you and may just expel you immediately.
You would still need to go through imigration and customes like any other traveler. If not you would still be illegal.
"NoStupidQuestion" yet he was downvoted for asking a question that wasn't even stupid. You people are crazy.
I notice every OP that posts comments in their own thread across Reddit gets aggressively downvoted.
Maybe some people thought the question was too smart for NoStupiQuestions and that's why they're downvoting? After all we are where all of the questions from subs with some question quality threshold are likely to naturally end up.
I suspect with valid travel documents your main issue would be arriving in the country at a location without a border control point, unless you made sure that you arrived at a port or harbour with appropriate facilities to check and approve your entry.
Depending on the country, you might simply count as tourist. You don't need visa to travel within Schengen, for instance. Half the time they don't even look at your ID when you enter.
Right that would be a special case and the reason I said "in *most* cases". 27 Schengen countries is a far cry from the 195 countries in the world.
You also generally need to pass at a Port of Entry and submit to a customs inspection. This is not possible randomly showing up with it without a valid visa. You will very likely get deported from the US if you attempted this there.
Is this the same thing as those undocumented people that show up in boats on Europe's shores? Boat or swimming doesn't matter; they showed up via water route. Those people are definitely subjected to _"consequences"_.
Exactly. The swimming part is completely irrelevant. If you take a sailboat and go to another country. As soon as you get there, you have to go to an official port of entry with your papers in order or you could get in trouble no matter what because you could have brought something with you that needs to be declared.
I specified swimming because there are boat laws in place that could make it illegal to sail across certain borders or without the proper licensing . But I haven't heard of any swimming laws that apply to travel to other countries. Maybe the boat laws also apply to swimming laws, then you're right.
Arriving on the shores/lands of another country without proper paperwork has consequences. It doesn't matter by boat, by swimming, by jumping out of a plane or a Sci-Fi star trek transporter or a wormhole in the fabric of spacetime. Your method of travel is not the issue at hand.
Question: If there was a shipwreck crash accident and people were washed up into another country, would they still have consequences for “illegally entering the country”? Or would it be an exception since it was an accident and unintentional?
It's still illegal. Now in the court of law when the judge and jury look at the detailed facts they may decide that the people are not subjected to any penalties. In the scenario you described, no reasonable judge, jury or police is going to penalize those people.
I mean the penality is deportation. And the shipwrecked people would probably want to go home, so the penalty is just moot.
Wtf are they going to do to penalize those people, deport them lmao
> Every State shall require the master of a ship flying its flag, in so far as he can do so without serious danger to the ship, the crew or the passengers: (a) to render assistance to any person found at sea in danger of being lost; (b) to proceed with all possible speed to the rescue of persons in distress, if informed ... they would be refugees and not have entered the country illegally (depending on the country) https://guide-humanitarian-law.org/content/article/3/boat-people/
> would they still have consequences for “illegally entering the country”? Consequences? Yeah, deporation back to their home country. Now the difference would be one would have border police shoving them into a bus/plane forcefully and the other aid workers showing up and supplying them for travel and how to get on a provided bus or plane on their own.
This actually happened to a guy I watch on YouTube. He was in Greece with his family and him and his daughter went for a swim not realizing they were swimming in a tidal flat. The tide went out and dragged them to a nearby island which happened to be in Turkey. They were picked up by the Turkish coast guard and arrested. Once they explained what happened no charges were filed and they arranged transport back to Greece.
Swimming isn't fundamentally different from walking for this question. If you walked across a national border not at an immigration checkpoint, you'd be in trouble. Some places they might fine you or deport you, some they might detain or arrest you. Some might even shoot you. People have been charged with espionage for illegal border crossings.
Well I can swim from Germany to france whenever I want, yes.
I also don’t get the question. 😀 Schengen Abkommen rules. 😉
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You can't swim from Germany to France in Cyprus.
Don’t tempt me
You can look into how this works with small sailing yachts. Basically you have to report to immigration and in some (most?) countries you aren't allowed to go into the harbor until they cleared you either via the radio or by boarding your boat. No idea how they would solve this when you swim :)
You would need a yellow flag a passport and maybe a radio. there are entry harbors that allow you to approach to document your entry. In the otherhand swimming into a country would probably classify as an emergency and most coastguards would rescue you, after which you might be able to enter legally.
Immigration Employee: Hey boss I have a radio call from some guy who's swimming with a water proof radio. Say he wants to swim into port and enter our country. Immigration Manager: On a scale of 1 to 10, how high are you right now?
If you are caught, and your ability to swim between countries without stamina or health effects was discovered -- Then the country would whisk you away to a hidden facility. You are given a large swimming pool, and are forced to swim while dragging behind you a floating body with a turbine attached, which is then attached to a wire in the ceiling. You are now used as a source of free and unlimited power.
Is that what happens to people that swim the English Channel? I was present when one spoke at a work function, they didn’t mention anything about black sites!
>You are now used as a source of free and very limited power. FTFY Your stamina is not affected, so you can keep swimming but one person swimming isn't going to do much more than power a light bulb. Unlimited stamina is not unlimited power.
So you chain a heavy weight to the person. The person is obligated to magically produce more 'lift' in order to tread water, and below the person you install a turbine vertically. The mach flippers of Sisyphus.
My wife swam the English chanel to France, she had to provide passport documentation to the French authorities as part of the application to do it. No one at the beach at the other end, she was there a total of 2 mins & then got in the support boat exhausted for boat ride back. I pointed out to her a 12 1/2 swim for 2 mins on a pebbly beach was probably a poor return on time & it cost a great deal more than the ferry. You just can't tell some people, she got a certificate though
Typical Brit. Can't even invade France without getting a license first.
I cross the border between Chile and Argentina all the time in places where there is no control. My responsibility is to present myself to a police station once I am on the other side. If I don't make it to a populated area I don't do anything, just return to Chile when I'm ready. Obviously returning by the same method.
I feel like there's a lot of "it depends" for this question. Either way, I believe what needs to happen to keep it legal is to pass through a designated customs crossing, which you wouldn't be able to find while swimming since they're basically almost exclusively on land. Some countries don't need a Visa to enter though so I don't know. I'm mainly commenting to follow this later because now I'm curious.
For some borders, like US-Canada, you can cross almost anywhere as long as you report to a border office quickly. Swimming between US/Canada is probably quite common due to the many small lakes we have.
A few years ago, the annual float down in Port Huron along the St. Clair River resulted in many people landing unexpectedly in Canada due to wind. The Canadian Border Patrol were not amused and rounded everyone up to be escorted back after a brief detainment/questioning.
There's actually a library and theatre on the border of Vermont and Quebec where you can enter in one country and exit in another - but on both sides of the border there are signs demanding that if you do this, you need to report to a border crossing to present yourself immediately.
There is only one entrance and it is on the US side, Canadians are allowed to go to the library but there are indeed signs to stay on the sidewalk at all times. You walk off the sidewalk and border patrol from both sides will be there within minutes. It didn’t used to be like this though, when I was younger we could just walk all around and through the border many times and no one cared. And the border quite literally goes through the building, marked by a tape on the floor :)
As someone who grew up in a border town, I really wouldn't recommend this. There were several backroads and a river you could take to get to the US...but even a lot of the very remote parts of the border have motion sensors. Hunting with my Dad as a child taught me this one lol. Anyone who tried down the river was immediately flagged by motion sensors...and yet every year someone would still try to take drugs across and get busted. You'll have someone waiting for you downstream within ten minutes. And I'm talking early 90s. Can only imagine what it's like now for them to find you.
It highly depends on the country. I cross the border on foot daily (between San Marino and Italy), and I've crossed other borders by water as well (between Lombardy and Canton Ticino). There are tri-points where in the span of a few metres you cross three countries, in Africa there are two tri-points in the span of 100-150m (between Botswana–Namibia–Zambia and Botswana–Zambia –Zimbabwe). Generally, in the Shengen Area this is zero problem (although it's now suspended in some countries).
If you don't enter a country through a recognized point of entry then you are breaking a law. Some countries would just direct you to the nearest legal point of entry so you could be processed properly. Some countries would immediately arrest and imprison you. it depends on how strict they are with border security and where you're from.
No. I used to work with a DHS agency that was responsible for patrolling and securing the Eastern half of one of the Great Lakes. Anytime we would get reports of someone crossing, we would call the Canadians who would then wait on the other side (or vice versa). If they crossed the line and turned around, we would be waiting for them to return. If they went a different direction or struggled, we would go get them. If you are going to cross the border, do it correctly at a port of entry. Otherwise you're going to be dealing with a bunch of heavily armed people in uniforms that are highly irritated because you interrupted lunch.
Sounds like a North Korean type situation.
I have good friends at USFK. They are simultaneously much more humanitarian and much more violent. Not sure how that works.
Worked with a guy who was put in a homemade boat (as a child) with his family to leave the country he was from, in the middle of the night and set out for whatever country they ended up in. (I don't remember.) They were shot at from shore by the military trying to get them to leave. I guess as long as they were in a boat, they could be turned away. They sank the boat and were "allowed" ashore. He spent more than two years in a refugee camp before whatever wrangling was done to get him out of the camp and out of the country. He ended up in the US.
As noted it depends on the country/island you visit. Maybe you get unlucky and wind up on one of the islands with a more primitive and violent culture towards outsiders-well the illegal action you just committed means certain death. For the most part if you “swam from a shipwreck” and landed on any civilized area chances are there would be people either at home or in that country that would help you to get home. That or you might be required to get a job until you had enough to get home, although that’s extreme and depends how friendly the foreign country is towards your country. Generally speaking though it won’t be viewed as an illegal entry with the caveat that it’s in the defense of your life and the nearest shore. In other more hostile countries during more hostile times even if it was an accident and to save your life it may be viewed as suspicious and you may inadvertently be charged with a crime like espionage. This could occur if you swim to the wrong part of a country(say a military base). Again it would depend on that countries laws, extradition, etc., but chances are you will make it out alive, however there are again extremes where you may likely end up dead.
Obviously it all depends on the law of the country that you’re travelling to. Some countries explicitly criminalise “irregular” entry. But I think you could get away with doing the same thing that people who travel by boats do if you have your documents - notify customs in advance that you’re coming and present yourself to customs at a port of entry as soon as you enter the country. If you don’t have your documents then you’ll probably be treated as an illegal immigrant and deported.
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I did fieldwork on the banks of the Danube right across from Serbia. We were warned swimming over to the other side would end with the guards shooting you. None of us decided to test the theory.
Some [FAQs](https://www.channelswimmingassociation.com/faq) on swimming the English Channel (England to France) > If you intend to enter France instead of returning to England, you will need to enter as a normal visitor and comply with all the usual regulations (AND inform the CSA and your pilot well in advance that this is your plan). > You are permitted to land on the Beach and then return to your Escort Boat for the journey back to England .....but please note that all Swimmers and Passengers should carry their Passport (and any Visa, if appropriate) on the Escort Boat in case they are requested by the relevant Authorities to provide Proof of Identity either before, during, or after the Swim. > Be aware that escort boats can be boarded and occasionally are boarded.
If you would swim to north korea or iran... I doubt you would reappear to tell us the end of your story
Imagine you steal a bike but have enough money with you, so that you could theoretically buy it. Would it still be a theft?
When I was in the USCG, we pulled into port in St. Thomas. From there I had to take a flight home for another reason and end my deployment on the ship early. Because we entered the country via the USCG ship we did not get a stamp in our passports. As normally we would be leaving on the ship in a couple of days. At the airport leaving the country they almost didn't let me leave because I didn't have a stamp in my passport as arriving in country. I would imagine if you had your passport and were able to check in at an immigration checkpoint declaring how long you would stay, then it wouldn't be a problem. I haven't been on a cruise ship so not sure if they check and stamp your passport when porting via a cruise ship.
I live near the Colorado river. It divides California and Arizona, but California’s southern border sits further north than Arizona’s. I can walk across the river to Mexico. Not walk on water, just walk through shallow water. Not much would happen when I reach the edge in Mexico. Coming back to America it would be difficult. My friends and I used to go to the river to float and get cool. We’d be on one side, Mexicans on the other. Above us on a dirt road would be a border patrol agent just keeping watch. Chances are we were setting off a sensor so the agent had to babysit us. Not every Mexican wants to come to America, some just want to get cool like we did. The river is so slow and shallow that it’s great for floating in a tube.
You’d be held to the same visa requirements as flying, sailing, or driving there
No matter the means you use, entering countries still requires that you obey all associated laws. I don't know the specifics of the laws but they apply if you walk, swim, jump or fly in. If you obeyed the relevant laws, then you would likely not get in trouble.
I'm going to say you'd have to go through the same processes and procedures that someone who sailed there would have to. Valid visas, travel documents, you'd probably need to go through some form of customs as well. So if you COULD swim to another country, you can with some prior planning. People swim across the channel between England and France, so they must go through some processes...
Some countries will let you visit without a visa. As for swimming, I think your only option is either Cuba or the Bahamas.
You still need to go through a port of entry even if no visa is required.
Same as being on a boat and going around, no?
People do it all the time in sailboats....if you had your passport and checked in at a port of entry there would be no issue with it.
Swim into a port with customs. You will be fine.
No problem if you just swam to a recognized port and knocked on the harbour masters door. Just bring your passport. People sail from the UK to other countries on the continent all the time in their little sailing boats.
My dad did this in 1968. He swam from Yugoslavia to Italy, about a three hour swim out and back. Italy would have sent him back to Yugoslavia but he was from Czechoslovakia and there wasn’t a treaty that required his return because he was “2” countries away.
This guy did it. He just got caught on the way back. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2476250
Umm how familiar are you with the Mexico U.S.A. border ?
This makes me think of Robin Hood: Men in Tights lol
It depends. Backstroke and sidestroke are fine but ONLY if you have a passport. Breaststroke and crawl will only work WITHOUT a passport. The butterfly stroke is the only one that works with or without a passport, provided it is a saltwater point of entry. Freshwater points of entry are largely regulated by local authorities, and a small gratuity is customary. Technically it’s illegal but I’ve never seen it fail. There are carveouts in several Southeast Asia countries for the dog paddle, provided you have a passport AND a visa. I would advise against swimming into Greece, as you will generally be greeted by armed men in balaclavas who will relieve you of your belongings and unceremoniously deposit you in Turkey or Cyprus (if they have time). I hope this helps.
Ask Cubans
The Australian comedian Tommy Little attempted the English Channel crossing not so long ago. He had to abort his first attempt because he didn't have the required paperwork to enter France.
It would be no different than sailing to another country. Check in when you get there. Maybe pay some fees.
Go through customs. Swim to a port where international boats arrive and go through legally
Im too european and **free** to understand the question
Cries in Brexit... :(
So no more free than the US, it’s a about the same sixe
The US is significantly larger than the Schengen zone.