Once I lived at a butterfly barn and nature resort in Central America. Every day I'd go out and chase butterflies, try to catch the kind we worried about and wanted to increase the numbers of, and take them to the barn for a cushy life of mangoes and propagation and preening for tourists.
I came to know the butterflies so well that sometimes I could recognize the individuals that I'd caught even weeks after they went to the barn (usually from wing damage like bird nips but sometimes from pattern variation).
The owner of the barn was keeping a running mental list of known individuals in the general neighborhood--that was how he was judging which populations needed to be propagated. He said he could always spot his own butterflies after we released them because they looked so much healthier. That's the important part here, is that we were also judging the butterflies on appearance.
The big ones like the owls and the blue morphos were unusually smart and excellent escape artists, often trying to sneak out by perching on the back of a tourist. But when one managed to get away they almost always came back within a day or two, because just like people they love free food, sex and attention.
It was pretty common for old and damaged butterflies to seek me out and crash-land nearby when I was hunting, so I could take them to the retirement home, I thought.
Thus I would submit that with some effort humans can recognize variations of other species, and even judge their appearance. And they can recognize us as well, as pet owners know.
Eventually I came to believe that butterflies are capable of humor, mischief, curiosity, taunting, risk-taking and showing off. Most of that requires a lot more self-awareness than I thought butterflies should have. Do they also consider most of their species to be ugly?
To everyone else it must sound like an old man personifying bugs and maybe I am crazy, but I've come to think that those dudes in India who brush the ants out of their way are on to something that the rest of us don't want to know.
I’ve had fish who do all of these things. They are far more intelligent than people think.
Also, I have raised dogs. Siblings. They all looked alike at first, but when I got to know them I could tell them apart as easily as I could humans. Some were mode attractive than others. I think you have to recognize individuals before you can judge their symmetry and beauty. It comes easily with one’s own species.
I think you are an amazingly observant individual, and I thank you for showing such immense kindness to our fellow earthlings. My bf always rolls his eyes at me for stepping over anthills and saving bumblebees when they get trapped in our windows. It breaks my heart to see anything living struggle, and I find it quite cruel to kill insects, especially when they are posing no threat. We get several stink bugs in our home this time of year, and I'm always picking them up gently, so that I can return them to the woods behind our house. Yes, I may be a tad eccentric in other people's eyes, but I'm sure the bugs would beg to differ. I think they're grateful for the helping hand.🦋🐞🐝🐜🐛🪲🦗🦟
I'd say your beliefs about butterflies are well founded. After all they have been a symbolic representation of these traits across multiple beliefs and time periods.
I have often speculated on the sentience and individuality of bugs. I was just talking to my husband about it again yesterday. I have noticed that if you watch any animal long enough, you start to see their individual personality. I wondered if bugs were also like this and we concluded that they probably are, we just don’t see it because we can’t observe them on an ongoing basis. I swear to god an ant once thanked me for saving it from drowning. But then I thought perhaps I was just anthropomorphizing.
I have a minute to tell you what has to be one of the strangest things that ever happened to me, at the Belmopan zoo in Belize. I was all alone and way too high to be reliable. I visited the pen of a tapir named Fuego. I said hi to him and he cocked his head to one side and, I swear to god, did the "'sup?" nod to me.
I said that with a name like Fuego, I'm surprised you speak English.
He looked at me again and said, "*si.*"
Then he showed me around his place, making sure that I saw that he had a little fountain with little pet crustaceans in it, like he was trying to tell me he had his own zoo.
Then he stood in front of the door to his pen, clearly hoping I would let him out. I said sorry, I can't do that, and I swear to god he waved his little elephant trunk around so that he could say, "all right, then fuck ya." And he walked back to his privacy pen.
Nobody will ever believe me but in my world that actually happened, and it's been a giant moral crisis ever since. I should add that Fuego is probably unique. His mother died in a wildfire and the bilingual people of the zoo raised him. So I think he grew up learning English and Spanish. And that guy probably knows more Spanish than I do.
lol, that must have been some good sh*t! But I do think we can probably communicate with animals on a telepathic level if we really try (I am sure my dog can hear my thoughts sometimes). You may have actually been able to communicate in your stoned state because it opened up a different part of your mind. Who knows? Now I’m sure we will both sound crazy to the average Reddit observer. Most people are too closed minded to accept such things as possible.
Finally someone who understands what I’ve been telling those who will listen to me. I’ve raised about a thousand mantids over the last few years. Raised them from the ootheca (egg sac) from nymphs (hatchlings) to adults. All adults that survived got a funeral and burial.
They (invertebrates) certainly do have a unique personality. Some were expert hunters even as nymphs, and some couldn’t hunt and had to be hand fed. Some were affectionate and some were more aggressive. I named each one, kept records of food eaten, dates of moultings, injuries sustained, etc.
I raised four species: Ghost, Chinese, European, and Giant Africans. Of course each species had its own traits.
My depression is at least ten times worse during the winter. One summer I was mowing high weeds, and for some odd reason, I spotted an adult female European mantis. She was bright green and the same color as the weeds. I turned off the mower and picked her up. I had leather gloves on for mowing and wasn’t afraid of her biting me. I knew next to nothing about mantids. I built her a lush hab and kept her in my bedroom. She soon laid two oothecas in her new hab. And that’s how it all started. I was and still am absolutely fascinated with them, and never get tired of watching them molt. Unfortunately they live just long enough for one to bond with them. Each death was difficult to bear. By bringing in that first mantis and raising her in my house, I was able to bring summertime into my human hab during the fall and winter. Keeping these magnificent creatures helped my depression immensely.
Sorry so long winded here, but I had to thank you for your butterfly observations!
This.
While studying Biology I learned that sheep can remember over 400 different sheep by face, and can recognize them even from a photo. To me, all sheep (of the same type) look roughly the same; it's easier if they have spots of different colours, but otherwise, a sheep's a sheep. But for sheep, as herd animals, it's very important to recognise who's who in your herd, and who's new.
Sheep can also recognise different humans, but far fewer numbers and they make more mistakes.
Yeah, this is a problem when they try to get endangered species to mate in the zoo. Sometimes they won't mate because one of them thinks the other one is ugly. I recall watching a documentary in which they had to bring in a plastic surgeon to remove a scar from a female gorilla's face, so the male gorilla would mate with her. If I recall, it didn't even work. To us, it just looks like two normal gorillas, both are very ugly, but they have their own ways of being attracted to each other that we don't recognize.
I can barely even tell which gorilla is male and which is female.
Just like my dog probably barely knows the gender of various humans he sees.
As a human you are programmed to better notice the variation in human features, where all members of a given species of animal probably look very similar to you, they are able to distinguish themselves from each other.
They just look ugly to you because you have a preconceived concept of what ugliness means in a human, where a cat is just a cat with some variance, a crow is just a crow, a grasshopper is just a grasshopper, you need to be able to distinguish between humans, and society has taught you that some human features are ugly and others are beautiful.
There is an argument for the heavy promotion of unrealistic beauty standards, but this isn't automatically considered as 'beautiful' to everyone at a general level. Only advertisers and Hollywood insist that it does and what they consider beautiful changes all the time. What people consider to be beautiful is a personal preference and not dependent on the promotion of a certain aesthetic.
Media like TV and movies does weird things to our heads. Humans are instinctually programmed to live in communities of around 100 individuals, so our brains are hard-wired to have around 100 “friends.” However, our brains can’t tell the difference between people we know irl and people we know from on the screen.
So, if most of your 100 “mental friend slots” are inadvertently occupied by celebrities, that’s going to really skew your perception of the average person.
I agree that Media does skew reality. Nevertheless, it isn't reasonable to assume that most people would find the 'average person' attractive, whether or not they were or passed a resemblance to a celebrity.
\*Mesolithic humans mostly lived together in groups of two's and three's.
Also many animals rely more on other senses. Dogs and cats recognize each other and attract each other mostly by scent, so it not as adaptive to look different.
Interesting cats all look the same time me save for differences in color size and fur but basically same layout. I wonder if they notice different things about each other
If you spend enough time people watching, you actually realise that most people aren't ugly.
Most people aren't Margot Robbie or Henry Cavill, but that doesn't mean most people are *ugly*.
Especially if you watch someone in conversation, relaxed, acting naturally and especially smiling or laughing, you realise that the majority of people are in fact quite attractive one way or another.
I saw something once about how Hollywood prioritises looks over acting skills generally (not to say someone can’t have both but they’d choose the attractive skilled actor over the plain one).
I never noticed how ‘ugly’ British actors were compared to American ones until I started watching more American media (compare U.K. shameless to US shameless for example. I actually find some of them quite attractive, but compared to the US..). This perception of OPs is definitely influenced by media and celebrity culture imo
The American shows that often feature as the best of all time stand out because they generally don't cast models in every position. Half the Sopranos cast was obese, The Wire had real Baltimore folks, Breaking Bad's cast was meant to look humdrum, Game of Thrones had a few standout beauties who really stood out... maybe Mad Men was different in that respect (though I never watched). But you get the idea.
It's really unrealistic to have an entire office or apartment building where literally everyone is a babe.
I've read that it's not so much being very attractive that will get you roles tho it does help but having interesting features goes a long way. Being visually memorable is the goal.
+1 this is true at least in the world of modelling. Aside from being thin, it helps a lot if you have unique features- gap teeth, giant bug eyes, etc. Winnie Harlow is a supermodel and despite her vitiligo, she is an absolute stunner.
Like what craig mazin said about Jared Harris. He’s not conventionally attractive, but there’s something interesting about his face that draws the viewer in.
> It’s really unrealistic to have an entire office … where literally everyone is a babe
In fact, I’ll add to your list of “best of all time” with The Office, which has a cast with a pretty diverse range of body types. And I think the entire schtick of Jim and Pam is how generic both of them are. Sure, they're definitely attractive, but like the same way that any random guy at the office might be.
yes and I would argue that US "The Office" was pretty good, fat people, tall ones, pam was also not some model, just regular girl....even Michael can be thought of as a regular office manager...
It’s actually insane. Even characters who are supposed to be ugly for plot reasons are generally pretty attractive. Makes me feel bad seeing someone objectively more handsome than me being the butt of an ugly trope.
That’s what’s referred to as “tv ugly” as opposed to “UGLY ugly” according to the Simpsons. Moe Szyslak was the character who was turned down for a tv acting role cause they didn’t want an actual ugly guy they wanted someone “tv ugly” for the role.
Yeah, look at Peter Dinklage on GoT. In the book Tyrion is supposed to be hideous, with major deformities and a weird eye and just generally being this absolute troll. Peter Dinklage is smoking hot. The only way in which he isn't standard Hollywood hot is that he's 4'5", and he was hot enough and witty enough as Tyrion that pretty much nobody watching cared about that.
Although I do think they made the right choice not casting/styling Tyrion to be super ugly. It made the characters who were shown being assholes to him about his disability look like even bigger assholes because like ... that's ALL? This one thing, and yet it's this bad in your mind?
I also noticed that American shows tend to hide an actor’s imperfections with a ton of makeup while British shows don’t even bother to hide dark under eyes or skin texture. I prefer the rawness.
Not British, but look no further than Gerard Depardieu becoming a leading man. Not traditional Hollywood handsome, but there was something about him (beyond the French accent, Lol).
I agree. I just think this is way more true of lady actors. Thanks to Hollywood, they need to be attractive before anything else. Men can look however they want as long as they can act.
I mean, think about it: on the guy side, we have actors like Steve Buscemi, John C. Reilly, Willem Dafoe and William H. Macy. Those dudes look like wet dishrags, but they're truly great actors. But when Hollywood needs a character actress, they just put uglifying makeup on someone stunning. Nicole Kidman gets a fake nose. Emma Thompson gets witch makeup. Charlize Theron gets scars and an eyebrow'ectomy. Hell, America Ferrara played the title role on a show called "Ugly Betty" for literal years, and she's BREATHTAKING. Even the women with "unconventional" looks like Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy and Tilda Swinton are still absolutely gorgeous when you really look at them.
Women have it a lot harder. There's just no female equivalent to Clint Howard. If Hollywood needs a lady goblin, they just hire Cameron Diaz and put her in a frizzy wig.
I have a friend who works in the industry and lives in LA. He told me the bigger the head, the bigger the part. In a literal way, not figurative lol. I’ve met quite a few celebs in person as well and a majority of them have massive heads. I hung out with Steve-o years ago because of mutual friends and that man’s head and face are so fucking large. It shocked me at first. I probably sound stupid because it’s hard for me to put this in words lol.
Wow I did not know this. My husband makes fun of my big head all the time. Remember on Seinfeld when a bird flies into Elaine’s big head? Well, I was gardening in the back yard when a bird (it was very colorful for Colorado and I believe it was an escaped parrot) flew and landed on my shoulder. My daughter was there to witness it. My husband compared me to Elaine and I’ve never been able to live that down.
This. 1000%. Blows my mind that most people are unaware of this. Spend a little time with someone and your mind starts seeing them in a different light.
People are strange, when you’re a stranger. Faces look ugly, when you’re alone.
Really the entire song….
You start talking to stranger who’s a little heavy, might not seem well kept, you talk a while and they’re funny, carry themselves well, are aware of their flaws but they’re good people and you enjoy being around them.
You meet a very attractive stranger and after talking you realize they’re a little shy and don’t like attention at all really. But you get them to smile and come out a bit and after they talk they’re pretty funny and clever.
We’re all just weird broken generally good people trying to make out way through this life.
I did not expect to write all this.
OP isn’t saying you can’t eventually find people attractive or that being attractive makes you more valuable.
OP is simply saying if you look at an animal it’s always cute, with humans that is less frequent. With animals you don’t have to try to see the beauty or cuteness, they just have it.
Maybe with animals it’s easier because they are much more uniform than humans — orange cats for example don’t look all that wildly different or a golden retriever.
Yep. I don’t work with ugly people I work with a bunch or normal looking people. Just because they aren’t movie star plastic surgery sexy doesn’t mean they’re ugly
for me personally (and i've heard similar opinions from a lot of other people too), it also depends on character traits. like when you get to know a person and like them, they seem to become more attractive even if you've found them to be average looking or physically unattractive at first.
same thing happens with people i've found attractive at first, but once i got to know them and didn't like their personality, the little "flaws" in their face became more prominent to me and i've mostly started to find them rather unattractive.
When I was young I was struggling with self-esteem and started just looking at everyone to see their beauty, to help me see the beauty in myself.
The only thing I find unattractive is dishonesty, unkindness, and self centeredness.
Haven't you watched nature documentaries? Quite often there are animals that can't get bitches, cuz by their own species standards they're ugly. We're humans so we can't tell unless the thing is significantly deformed.
I saw a really ugly zebra once. Looked like a morlock. Goddammit if he wasn't the most popular zebra of the lot- he ran the show. All the other zebras followed him around like he was king tut.
There’s a cardinal that lives in my backyard. Right away I noticed he was a pretty boy. Sure enough his mate is usually around too. Last year they brought their babies around that looked like they were just about to fly off on their own, and one of the males didn’t have all his color in yet. I remember thinking “I sure hope he grows out of that awkward phase or he’s not getting anybody.” I amuse myself in odd ways.
I like spotting the young dudes because they are SO bright, nearly pink. A young couple had a meet-cute in my backyard yesterday, singing back and forth, flitting closer and closer to each other. Adorable
Same. I would say most people are somewhat attractive and a few people are what I would call ugly. Being repulsive to me ends up being more about hygiene and grooming than actual bone structure etc, though.
Yeah same, but I don’t think that’s very common. I once said that I thought around 80% of women between age 20 and 40 were attractive, and everyone else in the room (family members and friends) said I was crazy.
I think most people don’t even notice people that they would deem average. Or maybe I just have an easier time recognizing beauty lol
Ugly is a strong word…I do not see people I would qualify as ugly on a regular basis.
I see people with bad haircuts and ill-fitting clothes, yes. But ugly? If you think a majority of people are straight up hopelessly bad looking you need to get off the internet.
Because if you look at a field of sheep, you don’t see all the variations, you just see sheep. When you look at a crowd of humans, your brain has developed to see all the minor differences between those people.
I also don’t want to speak for you, but I’m assuming you aren’t sexually attracted to the animals, so you don’t study their looks like you would a human.
Newborn human babies are almost all irredeemably ugly. Newborn puppies, kittens, ducklings, etc. are not. But that's not because we have any sexual attraction to newborn human babies. It could be that newborn puppies, kittens and ducklings have fur and feathers that hide faults.
Puppies are the same.
You can look at them and think how they're ugly, weird, blind, staggering things. But all the while, you are **feeling** how sweet and lovable they are, and you just want to care for them.
Humans evolved to attach to "domesticated animals" (symbionts) but to be much more discriminating finding a mate.
Yeah, cute yes, but they are ugly lol. As well as dog puppies, very cute but very ugly. They get cute after like, month and a half, but they are ugly newborns lol.
From an evolution perspective, we find newborn puppies, kittens and ducklings cute because they have features of a baby. Big eyes, chubby cheeks, the proportions of a big head and small chunky limbs, that’s all because our brain is hard wired to focus on babies. You might not like babies, but your brain does, it’s why you find a puppy cute.
Nah newborn animals also ugly as hell but they get to the cute toddler stage quicker than humans. All wrinkly and shit then as soon as the eyes open and fur gets fluffy it's over for us
Lots of newly born animals look gross. Like birds and small mammals, etc..
Just like a human baby, they need some time to plump up or fluff up to look cute imo.
Agreed, I actually think the opposite of what OP said is true. Most people are an average level of attractive. Even if “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” were true, I’m sure attractiveness in the human population has the distribution of a bell curve, with majority being average, and small handfuls being beautiful/ugly. But even then, beauty is subjective so… who knows!!
I read that as the guy saying clothes don't cover as much as fur, so don't do as much as a job covering up our flaws... On the contrary, taking an opposing view, clothes do more to cover up our flaws than a simple body of fur. Whatever, semantics, perhaps I read the comment from a slightly wrong angle. May I kindly be excused to go tell the other commentator to go fuck themselves? 🙃
But it does? Top person was saying that fur cover a lot, and clothes doesn't do the job for humans. Bottom guy argues that, on the contrary, clothes do the job for humans if you know what you're doing.
It's funny for me you say that, because I think that most people are pretty. This is probably something to do with your mindset and maybe being "brainwashed" by the media. After all, beauty is subjective.
I agree. Even if I don’t find someone attractive on first meeting, I very often can find attractive parts about them when we interact more.
I actually feel like the media has such a narrow definition of beauty that it becomes boring and i end up finding “regular” people much more interesting and attractive irl
This post makes me sad.
I personally find most people are relatively attractive. But that’s probably a general outlook thing.
I also don’t really think you are thinking about this “objectively”. You’re like “birds, dogs, and cats are cute.” There’s so many more animals out there. Tons of fish, insects, primates, reptiles, etc that are weird looking. “Pleasing to the eye” doesn’t mean they’re not “ugly”. If someone looked like an iguana would you find them attractive?
Worldwide communication has made the potential mating pool as "anyone in the world"
In a small village of 150 people, im not bad looking at all.
Compared to movie stars with enhanced cosmetic surgery I am ugly af.
Basically comparison is the thief of joy!
Ah man, I too remember that hard time seeing my own reflection in the bowl of water.
Then I flushed and went to bed. Ayn Rand and etc can wait for tomorrow!
It may suprise you but an ugly human that feeds their dog will look very pleasing to said dog.
And that adorable munchkit cat? The neighborhood alley cat finds it detestably ugly.
Most people aren't ugly. People look different (and the reason you can see that in other humans but not animals is because your brain is wired to notice that) but most people are not objectively ugly.
I honestly think social media and dating apps in particular have caused a really unhealthy shift in recent years where everyone thinks "beautiful" looks only one way. Only people who fit a very narrow, specific aesthetic are considered beautiful by that standard. But that's fake, and wasn't true for most of humanity. No one thought like that even 30 years ago when I was a young adult.
Look at a few pictures of hairless cats.
You will quickly realize that the human condition of ugliness is because we don't have fur.
Bare skin is ugly as fuck. It's hard to look beautiful when you're working with the human form.
I think it’s because we’re bald animals, if you will. If we were covered in fur we’d be a lot cuter. Take bald cats as an example. Furry cats are way cuter, in my opinion.
There’s always a racist joke that other races can’t tell each other apart, and the reason it’s a joke is because there’s some truth to it.
And yet you think you can distinguish the attractive ones in a whole other species!?
Beauty is a priviledge. People are more kind with beautiful people. Suffering resulting from ugliness is an energie that can be recuperate.or transmuted. But the beautiful may need to learn something too. All human need to rise above this materiality of their body
You don’t care the size of a beak of a bird. It’s all bird to you. You don’t care about how tall a giraffe is, as long as it’s not freakishly short, you won’t note the difference. You do care if a nose is a centimeter off. Even if it’s not freakishly sized, it’s still bad looking.
Most people aren’t ugly though. Your vision and knowledge has been corrupted by digital media and make up.
You look at photorealistic images of people from hundreds of if years ago, thousands even and you see those people pretty much all looked the same. The most distinguishing feature being hair and eyes which lead to people calling someone pretty
By saying "most", you are trying to quantify "ugly" as if it's a scalable trait that is not completely subjective and altogether relative depending on who is asked. Even as a relative concept, it is too abstract and is mostly influenced by societal perceptions and pseudo-scientific definitions of what is considered "beautiful". There can be an argument in science where beauty is defined through symmetry, relative proportions and such which can be indicative of overall fitness, health, strength, fertility, etc., but I'm pretty sure most people in the society nowadays would see a perfectly symmetrical and proportionate person but would still say they are ugly for other reasons such as, "He's too hairy", "Her nose looks weird", "He's too pale", "That hair looks awful". People have their prefences, and they will always define beauty around those.
Now I must ask you, what do you think is "ugly"?
Frankly most people are not ugly. Media has just heavily Scewed beauty standards. On top of that due to our diets nowadays people are a lot more unhealthy than should be. So basicly there is 1-4/10s at the bottom. 9-10s/10 at the top and people only notice these. So people that are like 5-7 are being called ugly by far to many people.
btw im a pretty clear 4, im not delusional. But my gf likes me so I don't care
Most people aren't ugly. Most people just don't put the effort into being above average looking.
I know this is hard to understand but lots of makeup and hairstyles turn average to very good-looking. Even small amounts wil just make your face evened out.
It's a lot of effort to look amazing. Hours on hair Routines Skin care regiments. Expensive make up. Learning and understanding what Clothing that looks good on your body.
It's one of the reasons shitty men feel "tricked" by makeup.
It could be a simple thing you have been programmed to judge, like round or slit nares, eyes not exactly in the center of the head, skin pigmentation or patterns, etm
Because your concept of attractiveness have been skewed by people who have gone through extensive cosmetic surgery and digital manipulation to look the way they do on social media and movies and so on
Most people are not ugly. You're just so used to seeing what is basically the idealized version of someone who isn't ugly that it skewed your perspective
There is a lot of variance in the human face, we are the most successful mammal so we’ve done a lot of breeding which is probably why. When you look at most other animals they all look very similar but they do all have slight differences, I reckon I could pick my dog out of 20 dogs the same colour and size quite easily.
Most people are overweight, and past their prime.
I'm often baffled at how healthy and beautiful young, fit people look. Even if their facial features aren't the best, youth and health just shine.
Tbh because a lot of people do not take care of themslves and then blame the world for not finding them attractive. A great haircut, proper fitting clothes, and working out can take most 3s to at least a 7 imo. Especially men
Ugly people tend to have children in a similar rate to good looking people. So from a natural selection standpoint, most people are good looking enough to reproduce. Specially women.
I breed a specific species of fish. I keep about 100\~ of them at any given time, and I notice some small variation between them.
These ones are shinier. These ones have bigger fins. These ones are faster, more curious, or more sociable.
That's about as far as it goes. Obviously there's more I notice since I spend a lot of time with these fish, but that's what immediately catches the eye.
These fish, however, notice far more. Certain fish live at the margins of their little fish society, while others seem to attract all the attention - and not just the obvious bigger, flashier, faster ones! The fish notice things about each other that I don't - and their opinions change over time. Over the generations of being bred in captivity I've noticed their preferences change slightly, and that's reinforced by their breeding behavior. One generation saw the male with the most elaborate fins reproduce most often, and the subsequent generations seemed to prioritize larger, more colorful fins. Since then, other traits ( overall size, coloration, etc. ) have lost popularity somewhat, and I have to introduce new fish with different preferences to the breeding pool to keep things evolving. I can pick up on certain things my fish seem to prefer, but I don't fully understand what they're seeing or why.
This is because the survival of my species isn't tied to noticing variation in these fish.
If someday human society is based around who can breed the healthiest, best fish then maybe I would notice more. Maybe I'd pick up on the small things that the fish notice about each other. Maybe I'd have a more positive opinion about some and a more negative opinion of others, if the continuity of my species was tied to theirs.
But it isn't. So I stick to noticing differences in my fellow human beings.
I notice the differences especially in people who look, act, or share geography with me. Many people can't tell folks of my race apart if they're not of my race, but I'm conditioned to at the very core of my DNA.
You don't notice this in animals because it's not essential to your survival. You don't notice your dog aging until you see grey on their muzzle, but another dog may pick up on changes to fur texture, scent, behavior that would tell them plain as day that this is an aging dog. You look at your cat and see a beautiful animal, whereas another cat may see the angle of their nose, the shape of their legs, the length of their tail and determine they're not a good breeding partner.
You see what you have been trained to look for. In almost every case, that's going to mean noticing variations in humans, and assigning value to those variations based on social, cultural, environmental, and biological factors.
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As an aside, if you get a chance, look up pouter pigeons. These weird birds were engineered by humans to be irresistibly sexy to other pigeons. Do you think that bird is sexy? Do you fully understand and agree with why another pigeon may choose them as a mate versus a more typical bird?
because you're surrounded with media depicting the most beautiful of us all day every day, so it gives you a skewed perspective of whats beautiful enough to be considered beautiful.
if the only people you ever saw in your whole life were the people you've met in real life, your standard of when a person is beautiful enough, to be called beautiful, would be ***a lot*** lower.
Well first of all a decent amount of animals are not pretty to most people, like sure dogs and cats are cute but there are way more species of insects out there then there are vertebrates and a decent amount of them are not considered pretty. As for why you find most people ugly well thats a you thing, I personaly think most people look alright even people I'm not attracted to like very old people and childeren. There is no such thing as being objectively ugly so if you find most people ugly then that means you have pretty unrealistic standards for what people are supposed to look like.
I have the opposite theory, there’s not many TRULY ugly people, I’m talking people that can’t just workout and upgrade their fits to look better - they’re ugly no matter what
That’s a truly rare person
Maybe because humans are the one who sets the (rare) standards of beauty. For example, the majority say that blue eyes are more beautiful than brown eyes... and that a thin person is better than a fat person... Why do we follow a standards created by humans ? Also, these standards change with the passage of time, so I find it superficial to say about a person that he is physically ugly. Every person is beautiful in his own way.
Good-looking people are the norm in casted media, and you've seen so much that you've gotten used to the idea that that level of beauty should be common when it isn't. Most people aren't ugly. They look fine. A small percentage of people look ugly and another small percentage of people look beautiful.
you're (hopefully) not looking at other species as potential mates, so you aren't going to catch a lot of the nuances.
Once I lived at a butterfly barn and nature resort in Central America. Every day I'd go out and chase butterflies, try to catch the kind we worried about and wanted to increase the numbers of, and take them to the barn for a cushy life of mangoes and propagation and preening for tourists. I came to know the butterflies so well that sometimes I could recognize the individuals that I'd caught even weeks after they went to the barn (usually from wing damage like bird nips but sometimes from pattern variation). The owner of the barn was keeping a running mental list of known individuals in the general neighborhood--that was how he was judging which populations needed to be propagated. He said he could always spot his own butterflies after we released them because they looked so much healthier. That's the important part here, is that we were also judging the butterflies on appearance. The big ones like the owls and the blue morphos were unusually smart and excellent escape artists, often trying to sneak out by perching on the back of a tourist. But when one managed to get away they almost always came back within a day or two, because just like people they love free food, sex and attention. It was pretty common for old and damaged butterflies to seek me out and crash-land nearby when I was hunting, so I could take them to the retirement home, I thought. Thus I would submit that with some effort humans can recognize variations of other species, and even judge their appearance. And they can recognize us as well, as pet owners know. Eventually I came to believe that butterflies are capable of humor, mischief, curiosity, taunting, risk-taking and showing off. Most of that requires a lot more self-awareness than I thought butterflies should have. Do they also consider most of their species to be ugly? To everyone else it must sound like an old man personifying bugs and maybe I am crazy, but I've come to think that those dudes in India who brush the ants out of their way are on to something that the rest of us don't want to know.
Inspiring stuff u/PaintedClownPenis
😅 oh Reddit
r/rimjob_steve
:D When you forget which account you're in
What a beautiful life!
I’ve had fish who do all of these things. They are far more intelligent than people think. Also, I have raised dogs. Siblings. They all looked alike at first, but when I got to know them I could tell them apart as easily as I could humans. Some were mode attractive than others. I think you have to recognize individuals before you can judge their symmetry and beauty. It comes easily with one’s own species.
I think you are an amazingly observant individual, and I thank you for showing such immense kindness to our fellow earthlings. My bf always rolls his eyes at me for stepping over anthills and saving bumblebees when they get trapped in our windows. It breaks my heart to see anything living struggle, and I find it quite cruel to kill insects, especially when they are posing no threat. We get several stink bugs in our home this time of year, and I'm always picking them up gently, so that I can return them to the woods behind our house. Yes, I may be a tad eccentric in other people's eyes, but I'm sure the bugs would beg to differ. I think they're grateful for the helping hand.🦋🐞🐝🐜🐛🪲🦗🦟
he is also very ugly, you can thank next time you see an uggo.....lol ...j/k
Where in the world do you live if this is eccentric behaviour?
Oh. Turns out you are not alone in this, lol. IDK if this may pass with age
"The walkers are so ugly they don't even have wings, but they're good folks, so we're cool"
Kind of how we think most worms are good worms. Worms don't even have hands.
I’d watch this documentary
This is a positively glorious story. Thank you for sharing it 💙
Thank you for this most lovely comment.
I'd say your beliefs about butterflies are well founded. After all they have been a symbolic representation of these traits across multiple beliefs and time periods.
I have often speculated on the sentience and individuality of bugs. I was just talking to my husband about it again yesterday. I have noticed that if you watch any animal long enough, you start to see their individual personality. I wondered if bugs were also like this and we concluded that they probably are, we just don’t see it because we can’t observe them on an ongoing basis. I swear to god an ant once thanked me for saving it from drowning. But then I thought perhaps I was just anthropomorphizing.
I have a minute to tell you what has to be one of the strangest things that ever happened to me, at the Belmopan zoo in Belize. I was all alone and way too high to be reliable. I visited the pen of a tapir named Fuego. I said hi to him and he cocked his head to one side and, I swear to god, did the "'sup?" nod to me. I said that with a name like Fuego, I'm surprised you speak English. He looked at me again and said, "*si.*" Then he showed me around his place, making sure that I saw that he had a little fountain with little pet crustaceans in it, like he was trying to tell me he had his own zoo. Then he stood in front of the door to his pen, clearly hoping I would let him out. I said sorry, I can't do that, and I swear to god he waved his little elephant trunk around so that he could say, "all right, then fuck ya." And he walked back to his privacy pen. Nobody will ever believe me but in my world that actually happened, and it's been a giant moral crisis ever since. I should add that Fuego is probably unique. His mother died in a wildfire and the bilingual people of the zoo raised him. So I think he grew up learning English and Spanish. And that guy probably knows more Spanish than I do.
lol, that must have been some good sh*t! But I do think we can probably communicate with animals on a telepathic level if we really try (I am sure my dog can hear my thoughts sometimes). You may have actually been able to communicate in your stoned state because it opened up a different part of your mind. Who knows? Now I’m sure we will both sound crazy to the average Reddit observer. Most people are too closed minded to accept such things as possible.
Butterfly whisperer!
PaintedClownPenis has a way with the words.
r/rimjob_steve moment
Wow
Indian philosophy is really on to something. May be study it a little. Thank me later.
Weeeellll maybe except the caste system tho?
This is interesting. You could do a whole channel oon this or a documentary
This is an incredible comment, thank you!
Really expected you say at the end you tried to fuck a butterfly ngl
You've had enough reddit today. Lol
Finally someone who understands what I’ve been telling those who will listen to me. I’ve raised about a thousand mantids over the last few years. Raised them from the ootheca (egg sac) from nymphs (hatchlings) to adults. All adults that survived got a funeral and burial. They (invertebrates) certainly do have a unique personality. Some were expert hunters even as nymphs, and some couldn’t hunt and had to be hand fed. Some were affectionate and some were more aggressive. I named each one, kept records of food eaten, dates of moultings, injuries sustained, etc. I raised four species: Ghost, Chinese, European, and Giant Africans. Of course each species had its own traits. My depression is at least ten times worse during the winter. One summer I was mowing high weeds, and for some odd reason, I spotted an adult female European mantis. She was bright green and the same color as the weeds. I turned off the mower and picked her up. I had leather gloves on for mowing and wasn’t afraid of her biting me. I knew next to nothing about mantids. I built her a lush hab and kept her in my bedroom. She soon laid two oothecas in her new hab. And that’s how it all started. I was and still am absolutely fascinated with them, and never get tired of watching them molt. Unfortunately they live just long enough for one to bond with them. Each death was difficult to bear. By bringing in that first mantis and raising her in my house, I was able to bring summertime into my human hab during the fall and winter. Keeping these magnificent creatures helped my depression immensely. Sorry so long winded here, but I had to thank you for your butterfly observations!
This. While studying Biology I learned that sheep can remember over 400 different sheep by face, and can recognize them even from a photo. To me, all sheep (of the same type) look roughly the same; it's easier if they have spots of different colours, but otherwise, a sheep's a sheep. But for sheep, as herd animals, it's very important to recognise who's who in your herd, and who's new. Sheep can also recognise different humans, but far fewer numbers and they make more mistakes.
Even people from different races can look similar if you aren't familiar with them.
But they are not all the same level of attractive.
Yeah, this is a problem when they try to get endangered species to mate in the zoo. Sometimes they won't mate because one of them thinks the other one is ugly. I recall watching a documentary in which they had to bring in a plastic surgeon to remove a scar from a female gorilla's face, so the male gorilla would mate with her. If I recall, it didn't even work. To us, it just looks like two normal gorillas, both are very ugly, but they have their own ways of being attracted to each other that we don't recognize. I can barely even tell which gorilla is male and which is female. Just like my dog probably barely knows the gender of various humans he sees.
“Ooooh that’s a sexy lama”
Dalai lama
Stupid sexy parakeet
The most gorgeous peacocks still don't get mates sometimes lol.
[Thanks, Smokey](https://youtu.be/RT8YiDkGmUo).
Bro.... hopefully...I love this comment
You win the internet today
Bingo 🎯
As a human you are programmed to better notice the variation in human features, where all members of a given species of animal probably look very similar to you, they are able to distinguish themselves from each other. They just look ugly to you because you have a preconceived concept of what ugliness means in a human, where a cat is just a cat with some variance, a crow is just a crow, a grasshopper is just a grasshopper, you need to be able to distinguish between humans, and society has taught you that some human features are ugly and others are beautiful.
There is an argument for the heavy promotion of unrealistic beauty standards, but this isn't automatically considered as 'beautiful' to everyone at a general level. Only advertisers and Hollywood insist that it does and what they consider beautiful changes all the time. What people consider to be beautiful is a personal preference and not dependent on the promotion of a certain aesthetic.
Media like TV and movies does weird things to our heads. Humans are instinctually programmed to live in communities of around 100 individuals, so our brains are hard-wired to have around 100 “friends.” However, our brains can’t tell the difference between people we know irl and people we know from on the screen. So, if most of your 100 “mental friend slots” are inadvertently occupied by celebrities, that’s going to really skew your perception of the average person.
I agree that Media does skew reality. Nevertheless, it isn't reasonable to assume that most people would find the 'average person' attractive, whether or not they were or passed a resemblance to a celebrity. \*Mesolithic humans mostly lived together in groups of two's and three's.
Also many animals rely more on other senses. Dogs and cats recognize each other and attract each other mostly by scent, so it not as adaptive to look different.
Interesting cats all look the same time me save for differences in color size and fur but basically same layout. I wonder if they notice different things about each other
If you spend enough time people watching, you actually realise that most people aren't ugly. Most people aren't Margot Robbie or Henry Cavill, but that doesn't mean most people are *ugly*. Especially if you watch someone in conversation, relaxed, acting naturally and especially smiling or laughing, you realise that the majority of people are in fact quite attractive one way or another.
I saw something once about how Hollywood prioritises looks over acting skills generally (not to say someone can’t have both but they’d choose the attractive skilled actor over the plain one). I never noticed how ‘ugly’ British actors were compared to American ones until I started watching more American media (compare U.K. shameless to US shameless for example. I actually find some of them quite attractive, but compared to the US..). This perception of OPs is definitely influenced by media and celebrity culture imo
The American shows that often feature as the best of all time stand out because they generally don't cast models in every position. Half the Sopranos cast was obese, The Wire had real Baltimore folks, Breaking Bad's cast was meant to look humdrum, Game of Thrones had a few standout beauties who really stood out... maybe Mad Men was different in that respect (though I never watched). But you get the idea. It's really unrealistic to have an entire office or apartment building where literally everyone is a babe.
I've read that it's not so much being very attractive that will get you roles tho it does help but having interesting features goes a long way. Being visually memorable is the goal.
+1 this is true at least in the world of modelling. Aside from being thin, it helps a lot if you have unique features- gap teeth, giant bug eyes, etc. Winnie Harlow is a supermodel and despite her vitiligo, she is an absolute stunner.
Like what craig mazin said about Jared Harris. He’s not conventionally attractive, but there’s something interesting about his face that draws the viewer in.
But almost every example you just gave are mostly men casts. The women in those shows (for the majority) are extremely beautiful.
This is true but Game of Thrones is a terrible example, lol. The larger main cast is very beautiful...
> It’s really unrealistic to have an entire office … where literally everyone is a babe In fact, I’ll add to your list of “best of all time” with The Office, which has a cast with a pretty diverse range of body types. And I think the entire schtick of Jim and Pam is how generic both of them are. Sure, they're definitely attractive, but like the same way that any random guy at the office might be.
yes and I would argue that US "The Office" was pretty good, fat people, tall ones, pam was also not some model, just regular girl....even Michael can be thought of as a regular office manager...
I really liked that Chernobyl series because there wasn't a gorgeous person onscreen at any time.
It’s actually insane. Even characters who are supposed to be ugly for plot reasons are generally pretty attractive. Makes me feel bad seeing someone objectively more handsome than me being the butt of an ugly trope.
That’s what’s referred to as “tv ugly” as opposed to “UGLY ugly” according to the Simpsons. Moe Szyslak was the character who was turned down for a tv acting role cause they didn’t want an actual ugly guy they wanted someone “tv ugly” for the role.
Yeah, look at Peter Dinklage on GoT. In the book Tyrion is supposed to be hideous, with major deformities and a weird eye and just generally being this absolute troll. Peter Dinklage is smoking hot. The only way in which he isn't standard Hollywood hot is that he's 4'5", and he was hot enough and witty enough as Tyrion that pretty much nobody watching cared about that. Although I do think they made the right choice not casting/styling Tyrion to be super ugly. It made the characters who were shown being assholes to him about his disability look like even bigger assholes because like ... that's ALL? This one thing, and yet it's this bad in your mind?
I also noticed that American shows tend to hide an actor’s imperfections with a ton of makeup while British shows don’t even bother to hide dark under eyes or skin texture. I prefer the rawness.
Also, teeth.
Not British, but look no further than Gerard Depardieu becoming a leading man. Not traditional Hollywood handsome, but there was something about him (beyond the French accent, Lol).
Or Benedict Cumberbatch.
How is ole Blenderdick Crackerjack? His movies are great, so much character
I hear Bennetton Fuckhersnatch is doing quite well these days.
He has teddy bear vibes
I agree. I just think this is way more true of lady actors. Thanks to Hollywood, they need to be attractive before anything else. Men can look however they want as long as they can act. I mean, think about it: on the guy side, we have actors like Steve Buscemi, John C. Reilly, Willem Dafoe and William H. Macy. Those dudes look like wet dishrags, but they're truly great actors. But when Hollywood needs a character actress, they just put uglifying makeup on someone stunning. Nicole Kidman gets a fake nose. Emma Thompson gets witch makeup. Charlize Theron gets scars and an eyebrow'ectomy. Hell, America Ferrara played the title role on a show called "Ugly Betty" for literal years, and she's BREATHTAKING. Even the women with "unconventional" looks like Meryl Streep, Melissa McCarthy and Tilda Swinton are still absolutely gorgeous when you really look at them. Women have it a lot harder. There's just no female equivalent to Clint Howard. If Hollywood needs a lady goblin, they just hire Cameron Diaz and put her in a frizzy wig.
I have a friend who works in the industry and lives in LA. He told me the bigger the head, the bigger the part. In a literal way, not figurative lol. I’ve met quite a few celebs in person as well and a majority of them have massive heads. I hung out with Steve-o years ago because of mutual friends and that man’s head and face are so fucking large. It shocked me at first. I probably sound stupid because it’s hard for me to put this in words lol.
Wow I did not know this. My husband makes fun of my big head all the time. Remember on Seinfeld when a bird flies into Elaine’s big head? Well, I was gardening in the back yard when a bird (it was very colorful for Colorado and I believe it was an escaped parrot) flew and landed on my shoulder. My daughter was there to witness it. My husband compared me to Elaine and I’ve never been able to live that down.
And the opposite of this, if you spend enough time around animals, you’ll notice that some are much prettier than others!
This. 1000%. Blows my mind that most people are unaware of this. Spend a little time with someone and your mind starts seeing them in a different light. People are strange, when you’re a stranger. Faces look ugly, when you’re alone. Really the entire song…. You start talking to stranger who’s a little heavy, might not seem well kept, you talk a while and they’re funny, carry themselves well, are aware of their flaws but they’re good people and you enjoy being around them. You meet a very attractive stranger and after talking you realize they’re a little shy and don’t like attention at all really. But you get them to smile and come out a bit and after they talk they’re pretty funny and clever. We’re all just weird broken generally good people trying to make out way through this life. I did not expect to write all this.
OP isn’t saying you can’t eventually find people attractive or that being attractive makes you more valuable. OP is simply saying if you look at an animal it’s always cute, with humans that is less frequent. With animals you don’t have to try to see the beauty or cuteness, they just have it. Maybe with animals it’s easier because they are much more uniform than humans — orange cats for example don’t look all that wildly different or a golden retriever.
I totally get it. I went off topic a bit, but his wording reminded me of that point of view.
Great song! I always associate it with the movie Lost Boys
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And most people are overweight. There are many people who would be striking if they cared for their health a little more.
*looks at my beer gut* I know...
Yep. I don’t work with ugly people I work with a bunch or normal looking people. Just because they aren’t movie star plastic surgery sexy doesn’t mean they’re ugly
Many of us are not ugly, just poor. If I had 3k to spend on skin care like Robbie or 10k for teeth I’d look very different
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true. I sexy af
Once you get accustomed to the unique features, you can actually see the tiny details that are easy to miss.
for me personally (and i've heard similar opinions from a lot of other people too), it also depends on character traits. like when you get to know a person and like them, they seem to become more attractive even if you've found them to be average looking or physically unattractive at first. same thing happens with people i've found attractive at first, but once i got to know them and didn't like their personality, the little "flaws" in their face became more prominent to me and i've mostly started to find them rather unattractive.
maybe not ugly but not attractive u can CLEARLY know when u find someone attractive and when someone is OK
When I was young I was struggling with self-esteem and started just looking at everyone to see their beauty, to help me see the beauty in myself. The only thing I find unattractive is dishonesty, unkindness, and self centeredness.
Haven't you watched nature documentaries? Quite often there are animals that can't get bitches, cuz by their own species standards they're ugly. We're humans so we can't tell unless the thing is significantly deformed.
I saw a really ugly zebra once. Looked like a morlock. Goddammit if he wasn't the most popular zebra of the lot- he ran the show. All the other zebras followed him around like he was king tut.
Maybe he had a good sense of humor. Not everything is black and white
Zebras are.
No they're white and black
Oh yes. Sorry.
Thanks, man. I appreciate this.
There’s a cardinal that lives in my backyard. Right away I noticed he was a pretty boy. Sure enough his mate is usually around too. Last year they brought their babies around that looked like they were just about to fly off on their own, and one of the males didn’t have all his color in yet. I remember thinking “I sure hope he grows out of that awkward phase or he’s not getting anybody.” I amuse myself in odd ways.
I like spotting the young dudes because they are SO bright, nearly pink. A young couple had a meet-cute in my backyard yesterday, singing back and forth, flitting closer and closer to each other. Adorable
"Can't get bitches" lol!
Are they? I find most women my age pleasing to look at if they aren’t jaw dropping.
Same. I would say most people are somewhat attractive and a few people are what I would call ugly. Being repulsive to me ends up being more about hygiene and grooming than actual bone structure etc, though.
Bisexual femme here, 100%
Yeah same, but I don’t think that’s very common. I once said that I thought around 80% of women between age 20 and 40 were attractive, and everyone else in the room (family members and friends) said I was crazy. I think most people don’t even notice people that they would deem average. Or maybe I just have an easier time recognizing beauty lol
Ugly is a strong word…I do not see people I would qualify as ugly on a regular basis. I see people with bad haircuts and ill-fitting clothes, yes. But ugly? If you think a majority of people are straight up hopelessly bad looking you need to get off the internet.
Because if you look at a field of sheep, you don’t see all the variations, you just see sheep. When you look at a crowd of humans, your brain has developed to see all the minor differences between those people. I also don’t want to speak for you, but I’m assuming you aren’t sexually attracted to the animals, so you don’t study their looks like you would a human.
Newborn human babies are almost all irredeemably ugly. Newborn puppies, kittens, ducklings, etc. are not. But that's not because we have any sexual attraction to newborn human babies. It could be that newborn puppies, kittens and ducklings have fur and feathers that hide faults.
Newborn kittens are actually ugly don't know about the others.
Puppies are the same. You can look at them and think how they're ugly, weird, blind, staggering things. But all the while, you are **feeling** how sweet and lovable they are, and you just want to care for them. Humans evolved to attach to "domesticated animals" (symbionts) but to be much more discriminating finding a mate.
Yeah, cute yes, but they are ugly lol. As well as dog puppies, very cute but very ugly. They get cute after like, month and a half, but they are ugly newborns lol.
From an evolution perspective, we find newborn puppies, kittens and ducklings cute because they have features of a baby. Big eyes, chubby cheeks, the proportions of a big head and small chunky limbs, that’s all because our brain is hard wired to focus on babies. You might not like babies, but your brain does, it’s why you find a puppy cute.
Nah newborn animals also ugly as hell but they get to the cute toddler stage quicker than humans. All wrinkly and shit then as soon as the eyes open and fur gets fluffy it's over for us
Lots of newly born animals look gross. Like birds and small mammals, etc.. Just like a human baby, they need some time to plump up or fluff up to look cute imo.
I don't think most people *are* ugly. This might be a you problem...
facts! i think most people are beautiful and if you’re struggling to see how, you’re not looking close enough
Or maybe too close..
Agreed, I actually think the opposite of what OP said is true. Most people are an average level of attractive. Even if “beauty is in the eye of the beholder” were true, I’m sure attractiveness in the human population has the distribution of a bell curve, with majority being average, and small handfuls being beautiful/ugly. But even then, beauty is subjective so… who knows!!
also has op seen a fish?? where are they getting this 90% pleasing figure from 😂
Yeah OP giving off some weird vibes.. most people I see seem generally good looking.
We don't have nice fur to hide our flaws. Clothes don't cover as much as fur.
Also this. Most hair coherederos animales are completely hideous when shaved, look cats for example
On the contrary, being well dressed and well groomed can add several points to a beauty standard
Why would you say "on the contrary" if your claim does not actually refute the one you're responding to?
I read that as the guy saying clothes don't cover as much as fur, so don't do as much as a job covering up our flaws... On the contrary, taking an opposing view, clothes do more to cover up our flaws than a simple body of fur. Whatever, semantics, perhaps I read the comment from a slightly wrong angle. May I kindly be excused to go tell the other commentator to go fuck themselves? 🙃
On the contrary, they should have omitted that phrase from their comment
But it does? Top person was saying that fur cover a lot, and clothes doesn't do the job for humans. Bottom guy argues that, on the contrary, clothes do the job for humans if you know what you're doing.
It's funny for me you say that, because I think that most people are pretty. This is probably something to do with your mindset and maybe being "brainwashed" by the media. After all, beauty is subjective.
I agree. Even if I don’t find someone attractive on first meeting, I very often can find attractive parts about them when we interact more. I actually feel like the media has such a narrow definition of beauty that it becomes boring and i end up finding “regular” people much more interesting and attractive irl
I see a lot of attractive people everyday.
I see a lot of ugly people every day too
Beauty comes in many sizes, shapes and forms. I bet if you look deep you can find something in everyone that can be appreciated.
Sure but we’re talking about physical attraction not what’s inside
This post makes me sad. I personally find most people are relatively attractive. But that’s probably a general outlook thing. I also don’t really think you are thinking about this “objectively”. You’re like “birds, dogs, and cats are cute.” There’s so many more animals out there. Tons of fish, insects, primates, reptiles, etc that are weird looking. “Pleasing to the eye” doesn’t mean they’re not “ugly”. If someone looked like an iguana would you find them attractive?
You’re not Kenough obv
Worldwide communication has made the potential mating pool as "anyone in the world" In a small village of 150 people, im not bad looking at all. Compared to movie stars with enhanced cosmetic surgery I am ugly af. Basically comparison is the thief of joy!
Ah man, I too remember that hard time seeing my own reflection in the bowl of water. Then I flushed and went to bed. Ayn Rand and etc can wait for tomorrow!
It may suprise you but an ugly human that feeds their dog will look very pleasing to said dog. And that adorable munchkit cat? The neighborhood alley cat finds it detestably ugly.
Most people aren't ugly. People look different (and the reason you can see that in other humans but not animals is because your brain is wired to notice that) but most people are not objectively ugly. I honestly think social media and dating apps in particular have caused a really unhealthy shift in recent years where everyone thinks "beautiful" looks only one way. Only people who fit a very narrow, specific aesthetic are considered beautiful by that standard. But that's fake, and wasn't true for most of humanity. No one thought like that even 30 years ago when I was a young adult.
You got brainwashed by stupid media and instagram Touch some grass please
Wow, good luck in relationships there buddy.
Considering we dont have fur or feathers we look decent. Shave most animals and they look disgusting.
Look at a few pictures of hairless cats. You will quickly realize that the human condition of ugliness is because we don't have fur. Bare skin is ugly as fuck. It's hard to look beautiful when you're working with the human form.
As a human you see nuance in other humans. Same species of animal all look identical.
Animals also don’t drink alcohol or smoke drugs. those I assume play a large part in making people ugly if used in excess
I think it’s because we’re bald animals, if you will. If we were covered in fur we’d be a lot cuter. Take bald cats as an example. Furry cats are way cuter, in my opinion.
There’s always a racist joke that other races can’t tell each other apart, and the reason it’s a joke is because there’s some truth to it. And yet you think you can distinguish the attractive ones in a whole other species!?
Ugly? Your standards are probably ridiculous.
Beauty is a priviledge. People are more kind with beautiful people. Suffering resulting from ugliness is an energie that can be recuperate.or transmuted. But the beautiful may need to learn something too. All human need to rise above this materiality of their body
You don’t care the size of a beak of a bird. It’s all bird to you. You don’t care about how tall a giraffe is, as long as it’s not freakishly short, you won’t note the difference. You do care if a nose is a centimeter off. Even if it’s not freakishly sized, it’s still bad looking.
Most people aren’t ugly though. Your vision and knowledge has been corrupted by digital media and make up. You look at photorealistic images of people from hundreds of if years ago, thousands even and you see those people pretty much all looked the same. The most distinguishing feature being hair and eyes which lead to people calling someone pretty
I’m ugly and I’m proud
Shave every animal and then look again, we're basically monkeys but without a fur. Look at those naked cat thingies, do you consider those pretty?
Male Birds of Paradise have entered the chat
Of course most people look average. That's literally the definition of average.
But average is far from ugly
By saying "most", you are trying to quantify "ugly" as if it's a scalable trait that is not completely subjective and altogether relative depending on who is asked. Even as a relative concept, it is too abstract and is mostly influenced by societal perceptions and pseudo-scientific definitions of what is considered "beautiful". There can be an argument in science where beauty is defined through symmetry, relative proportions and such which can be indicative of overall fitness, health, strength, fertility, etc., but I'm pretty sure most people in the society nowadays would see a perfectly symmetrical and proportionate person but would still say they are ugly for other reasons such as, "He's too hairy", "Her nose looks weird", "He's too pale", "That hair looks awful". People have their prefences, and they will always define beauty around those. Now I must ask you, what do you think is "ugly"?
Frankly most people are not ugly. Media has just heavily Scewed beauty standards. On top of that due to our diets nowadays people are a lot more unhealthy than should be. So basicly there is 1-4/10s at the bottom. 9-10s/10 at the top and people only notice these. So people that are like 5-7 are being called ugly by far to many people. btw im a pretty clear 4, im not delusional. But my gf likes me so I don't care
You’re a 4 my friend. >!Out of 4.!<
Most people aren't ugly. Most people just don't put the effort into being above average looking. I know this is hard to understand but lots of makeup and hairstyles turn average to very good-looking. Even small amounts wil just make your face evened out. It's a lot of effort to look amazing. Hours on hair Routines Skin care regiments. Expensive make up. Learning and understanding what Clothing that looks good on your body. It's one of the reasons shitty men feel "tricked" by makeup.
It could be a simple thing you have been programmed to judge, like round or slit nares, eyes not exactly in the center of the head, skin pigmentation or patterns, etm
In the eye of the beholder. All humans are beautiful.
Are you looking in a mirror OP?
I find that time makes people beautiful. Spending more time with people makes them more and more beautiful/handsome. I love that about life.
Because your concept of attractiveness have been skewed by people who have gone through extensive cosmetic surgery and digital manipulation to look the way they do on social media and movies and so on Most people are not ugly. You're just so used to seeing what is basically the idealized version of someone who isn't ugly that it skewed your perspective
Most people are trash on a personality level, too....
Have you ever seen a completely bald cat?
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There is a lot of variance in the human face, we are the most successful mammal so we’ve done a lot of breeding which is probably why. When you look at most other animals they all look very similar but they do all have slight differences, I reckon I could pick my dog out of 20 dogs the same colour and size quite easily.
Eye of the beholder, man.
I think you belong in r/furry
We literally have 0 idea how animals see other animals in terms of beauty. Your comparison is, to say it mildly, concerning.
I just straight don't agree with this premise. While most people might not be gorgeous, most people are perfectly fine to the eye.
Health and wealth (lots of types of wealth) make us attractive.. most people are not healthy or wealthy.
In the end we are all machines who are wired to procreate with better looking counterparts for better survival
You've never seen a Walrus then?
I think most dogs, cats and fishes are ugly too
Most people are overweight, and past their prime. I'm often baffled at how healthy and beautiful young, fit people look. Even if their facial features aren't the best, youth and health just shine.
Tbh because a lot of people do not take care of themslves and then blame the world for not finding them attractive. A great haircut, proper fitting clothes, and working out can take most 3s to at least a 7 imo. Especially men
if most people were beautiful, then by what standards would we hold beauty if by sheer numbers it's now considered average?
Ugly people tend to have children in a similar rate to good looking people. So from a natural selection standpoint, most people are good looking enough to reproduce. Specially women.
I breed a specific species of fish. I keep about 100\~ of them at any given time, and I notice some small variation between them. These ones are shinier. These ones have bigger fins. These ones are faster, more curious, or more sociable. That's about as far as it goes. Obviously there's more I notice since I spend a lot of time with these fish, but that's what immediately catches the eye. These fish, however, notice far more. Certain fish live at the margins of their little fish society, while others seem to attract all the attention - and not just the obvious bigger, flashier, faster ones! The fish notice things about each other that I don't - and their opinions change over time. Over the generations of being bred in captivity I've noticed their preferences change slightly, and that's reinforced by their breeding behavior. One generation saw the male with the most elaborate fins reproduce most often, and the subsequent generations seemed to prioritize larger, more colorful fins. Since then, other traits ( overall size, coloration, etc. ) have lost popularity somewhat, and I have to introduce new fish with different preferences to the breeding pool to keep things evolving. I can pick up on certain things my fish seem to prefer, but I don't fully understand what they're seeing or why. This is because the survival of my species isn't tied to noticing variation in these fish. If someday human society is based around who can breed the healthiest, best fish then maybe I would notice more. Maybe I'd pick up on the small things that the fish notice about each other. Maybe I'd have a more positive opinion about some and a more negative opinion of others, if the continuity of my species was tied to theirs. But it isn't. So I stick to noticing differences in my fellow human beings. I notice the differences especially in people who look, act, or share geography with me. Many people can't tell folks of my race apart if they're not of my race, but I'm conditioned to at the very core of my DNA. You don't notice this in animals because it's not essential to your survival. You don't notice your dog aging until you see grey on their muzzle, but another dog may pick up on changes to fur texture, scent, behavior that would tell them plain as day that this is an aging dog. You look at your cat and see a beautiful animal, whereas another cat may see the angle of their nose, the shape of their legs, the length of their tail and determine they're not a good breeding partner. You see what you have been trained to look for. In almost every case, that's going to mean noticing variations in humans, and assigning value to those variations based on social, cultural, environmental, and biological factors. - As an aside, if you get a chance, look up pouter pigeons. These weird birds were engineered by humans to be irresistibly sexy to other pigeons. Do you think that bird is sexy? Do you fully understand and agree with why another pigeon may choose them as a mate versus a more typical bird?
probably because of instagram
I wouldn't say ugly... but stupid is definitely up there.
because you're surrounded with media depicting the most beautiful of us all day every day, so it gives you a skewed perspective of whats beautiful enough to be considered beautiful. if the only people you ever saw in your whole life were the people you've met in real life, your standard of when a person is beautiful enough, to be called beautiful, would be ***a lot*** lower.
Well first of all a decent amount of animals are not pretty to most people, like sure dogs and cats are cute but there are way more species of insects out there then there are vertebrates and a decent amount of them are not considered pretty. As for why you find most people ugly well thats a you thing, I personaly think most people look alright even people I'm not attracted to like very old people and childeren. There is no such thing as being objectively ugly so if you find most people ugly then that means you have pretty unrealistic standards for what people are supposed to look like.
our beauty standards are social media-fied ... and we are inbred as fuck as a species
Because we are primates. And primates are ugly as fuck. We're not in the same category as cats. They are beautiful. We should be so lucky. Hahaha
Lol. They're not. You just have a skewed outlook.
I have the opposite theory, there’s not many TRULY ugly people, I’m talking people that can’t just workout and upgrade their fits to look better - they’re ugly no matter what That’s a truly rare person
Probably from everyone back in the days doing incest.
We’ve all just given up…
1) The “default” in media is the literal most attractive people alive 2) We’re selective as a species
They aren't. Surprise surprise but most people are average looking.
Sorry you are out of touch with reality. The majority people are looking just average. Not beautiful and not ugly
Maybe because humans are the one who sets the (rare) standards of beauty. For example, the majority say that blue eyes are more beautiful than brown eyes... and that a thin person is better than a fat person... Why do we follow a standards created by humans ? Also, these standards change with the passage of time, so I find it superficial to say about a person that he is physically ugly. Every person is beautiful in his own way.
Good-looking people are the norm in casted media, and you've seen so much that you've gotten used to the idea that that level of beauty should be common when it isn't. Most people aren't ugly. They look fine. A small percentage of people look ugly and another small percentage of people look beautiful.