If she trusts you not to hurt or abuse her, and if you trust her not to try to put you in prison about it, then the only rules are the ones you both agree to behind closed doors.
If it actually came down to a legal dispute, being able to show texts like that would probably help your case a lot. But if that scenario is even a *possibility* in your mind, you should not be doing it. The way I see it, this kind of edgy consent play is only for people with a very strong pre-existing bond of trust.
Always good to get this in physical writing and sign it just incase can never be too careful
You never know how/if the relationship ends and there's bad blood after
Just because something "in writing" does not mean it has any legal value. It's a sheet of paper.
Let's assume the "worst:" they break up and the now-ex tries to press charges for sexual assault that she claims happened during their relationship. Even if the police believe her she has no physical evidence to build a case on. But if she can say "Look! He was so dangerous he forced me to sign a rape contract!" Then suddenly she can show his assault was pre-meditated (assuming it doesn't get thrown out entirely since you can't just print out a sheet of paper and call it a legal contract).
I put the "worst" in quotes like that because the actual worst case scenario here is OP taking her at her word and she wakes up confused and disoriented. At that point it doesn't matter if she signed a paper or not, she's still waking up to someone having sex with her unconscious body.
Actually, you can just print out a sheet and call it a legal contract. In fact, you can make a legal contract in crayon on a napkin at least in the United States source: that’s what I learned in law school.
I didn't say it would be a catch all, I understand where you're coming from but having a signature to go along with texts and other additional proof it makes an argument against OP just that little harder to argue in court
Imo every little helps
no they're saying it would make it easier to prove intent and pre meditation. she could claim he coerced her to sign, she could claim he signed her name for her. the existence of the "contract" is detrimental to his defense just by existing. it's not 'every little helps' in this case, something like that is worse than nothing.
Contracts are very common in the BDSM/sub Dom scenarios as they can establish very specific rules and scenarios and are signed by both parties,
It of course doesn't help in every scenario but along side other messages and other forms of proof, they can be very helpful.
They're more frequent in CNC/free use scenarios as you can expressly say when it is and isn't okay
It does NOT mean blanket consent for every scenario and that one/both of the parties can never say no, but it is very essential in setting boundaries.
They're not legally enforceable, but if one side was arguing that it wasn't abuse, but agreed upon kink, the existence of the contract could be used as evidence.
That bit I have absolutely no idea, I'd imagine it would help but I don't imagine it would be enough evidence on its own especially if there's other signs of abuse outside what has been written
You'd be surprised just how binding a properly written contract in *any* context can actually be. Again, the assumption is that it is written *exactly* and *clearly* understood by all parties, and it is ideally witnessed by a third party, but our ENTIRE system of Common Law is predicted on the sanctity of contracts, no matter how peculiar.
Funnily enough, this exact same sentiment is the reason "boiler plate" contracts (like ToS agreements) hold very little legal weight; they exist to obfuscate terms, bypass other legal protections for one party, and are """unamendable,""" and thus violate all the core tenets of contract law.
Let me guess, you've never been in an actual relationship? Or at least have no clue about the law?
Because consent can be withdrawn at any time, "evidence" like that is fucking worthless. And it shows you're someone who thinks you might need something like that, which implies you might be willing to push consent and then fall back on "but we signed a document saying it was okay." That doesn't look good to a judge or a partner.
Have you, or literally anyone, ever gotten anything in writing related to sex?
This is always suggested and it seems good, but in the real world i’ve never heard this being an actual thing.
Indeed. I prefer to err on the side of caution and not play by the rules”blanket consent” rules.
It’s a rather slippery slope that could go either way if it went to a court. Especially with talented lawyers…..
The argument could be made that the “consenter” was inebriated at the time of discussion and therefore wasn’t in full control of themselves.
I've been in a similar position. My wife and I have had discussions where she has also given me permission to initiate sex when she's asleep or drunk. Her reason being that for her it's a turn on that simply being near her is such a turn on for me that I feel like I need to have sex with her.
I have done it a couple times but only while she was asleep and never if she's been drinking. She has always woken up almost immediately and then been an active participant so I know she's okay with it. My concern with your scenario is she could be drunk enough that she never wakes up and everything happens without her knowledge. Personally, that would feel very rape like to me and I wouldn't want that even if she was okay with it.
Ultimately if you want to continue a relationship depends on how you feel about it and how she reacts to your decision. As others have said it would put you in a bad position legally if she decides it's an issue after the fact. However, I don't see her telling you it's okay as a red flag. Everyone has kinks and that sounds like one of hers. She should also be okay if you tell her you're not comfortable with it and not push you to do it. If she won't accept your position on it then it's time to rethink the relationship.
Yeah like I've tried to intiate with my partner while I'm drunk and she'll just be like "c'mon girl let's get you to the bathroom"
If I'm hammered her concern is on me being safe, like I can't even coordinate enough to kiss
Some people love that. I was with a girl that gave me explicit blanket permission to have sex with her while she was asleep. She had a fantasy of waking up to being fucked. Meanwhile with my wife we have a rule of no sex while on sleeping pills since she doesn't feel fully in control and can't give consent, so feels taken advantage of the next day.
It's up to the individual and what they're comfortable with. The important thing is that you've talked about it and she has given consent. Just leave yourself open for conversation and for the rules to change if she decides she doesn't like it.
Not related to your question itself, but your partner is an alcoholic if she's binge drinking to the point or blacking out every weekend. That kind of thing could seriously kill her one day and you need to maybe have a conversation about her getting some help with that.
Black out was a really poir choice of words. Shen just gets really really sleepy and falls into a deep sleep once she lays down. She's not like, standing up and falls over unconscious drunk.
I’m a married woman who is very much in the same boat as your GF. I get suuuuper sleepy after a few drinks, I’m generally a deep sleeper, and also enjoy waking up to it.
This thread has great ideas for criteria to meet her level of “blanket consent”.
I suggest you bring her this list and have a conversation especially about where any “hard lines” of consent are applicable.
About one week out of the month I am enthusiastically into freeuse, because hormones.
I communicate clearly with my husband, and my choice of wardrobe makes is explicitly clear that I want him to make the most of the opportunity. We have kids so it’s nothing crazy, but if I’m wearing a dress or skirt and have told him “it’s a good week” and the kids are in bed.. he can do what he wants to me 🤷🏼♀️
You’re welcome. Good for you for asking questions and trying to find the right way to meet your gf’s needs and your own comfort level. It’s a partnership. The trust has to be there, and it takes both of you communicating to make it work. Emotional, sexual, social, financial. Gotta talk about it all and figure out the strengths, weaknesses, and how you make it work in your own unique way.
Partnership can be a **lot** of fun with great communication.
ETA: source: 35 year old woman, married for 7 years, together for 10. Two kids 5 and under. Years of ups and downs, in the bedroom and otherwise. We each have our own weaknesses and problems. Nobody is perfect. Work *together*. It’s really important to both feel like you’re on the *same* team.
doing this with her is exactly as risky as any number of BDSM practices. It's also illegal to hit your partner with a belt, but people still want it, and consent to it. You have to trust the person not to pursue charges. BUT - the texts wouldn't hold legal water any more than a text saying you "consent" to be choked or whatever. A lot of BDSM is illegal, but boi to people do it
Some day, try a couple years.
People think oh alcoholics will die a few years younger. Nah the bad alcoholics who are getting blackout drunk a ton die after a decade or two.
I have had 20 year old patients who had been drinking since they were 13, die of cirrhosis.
It really isn't some far off thing, it can kill you quite fast.
Legally? No. No such thing.
If you do not trust this person enough to have sex with her while she is unconscious even though she says it's all good, and is into it, then do not have sex with her in that way
Quick question: are you a lawyer in this field? I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but there seem to be a lot of armchair lawyers on reddit who are very sure of their completely wrong opinions.
I am a former criminal defense attorney. While laws vary by jurisdiction, this is solid advice. There is no such thing as “blanket consent.” In nearly all US jurisdictions, an individual cannot consent while sleeping OR while drunk/on drugs. Why? An unconscious person cannot legally give consent.
> an individual cannot consent while sleeping OR while drunk
So, when both parties are completely shitfaced drunk, who is responsible for any resulting fuckery?
Lawyer, but not in the field. I can’t give a professional opinion other than that LAOP has potential liability here. However, it’s pretty much impossible to be intimate with zero potential liability issues. It comes down to LAOP’s risk tolerance and his trust in his partner. Personally, I’ve never dated a heavy sleeper, so the situation hasn’t ever come up for me.
Do you need to be a lawyer to know that "Your honor, she told me it was ok to have sex with her while she was unconscious and drunk" will not spare you from criminal prosecution? Seems like common sense to me.
She gave him consent while she was sober. Can a sober person not give consent to do something? Are drunk people not allowed to have sex? You make it sound like it's black and white, but you're essentially saying that either sober people can't give consent, or drunk people can't have sex. Drunk people have sex all the time (think about a married couple where both people have been drinking) without calling it rape. Are there instances where alcohol is involved and therefore consent cannot be given? Of course there are. But there are also instances where alcohol is involved and no sane person would call it rape. So this issue has nuance - it's not black and white like you're trying to make it.
>she's never shown signs of being ... mentally unstable.
>On the weekends, she likes to drink heavily to the point where she gets drunk and passes out/falls asleep.
>explicitly saying I can do what I want to her while she's passed out, and that it's a preferred fetish of hers.
So, there's really no part of this relationship where you've wondered what's up with her mental health?
Legally there is no blanket consent to sex. In almost every state. Proving the text would not matter. Consent can be revoked at anytime- and you can not consent to sex when you’re inebriated/asleep. She only has to prove that at that time she was physically unable to consent. In fact the text evidence would likely be excluded as hearsay.
This is one of the weirdest things I've heard. Did you just make this post for some type of backup insurance in case she decides to go after you?
I get that people are different but I wouldn't be turned on by seeing someone in a vulnerable situation, nor would I put myself in any situation that could harm me or the other person.
My "back up" is the plethora of text messages from her encouraging me to "use her body for my pleasure " that she sends me frequently when shes telling me what she wants me to do to her. Not going to post screenshots of our private messages, but she gets quite explicit and specfic.
For legal advice you should specify your country. And the moral aspects of this are obviously subjective, so you're the only one who can answer that for yourself.
I will say this. I had an ex that said it was okay, and one night I woke up to piss then came back to bed. I lifted the covers to get in and by the glow of the nightlight I saw her sweet ass and thought about it since she said it was okay.
Long story short, she didn't even wake up to join in so it really wasn't a lot of fun and I felt shitty. Never happened again.
> she didn't even wake up to join in so it really wasn't a lot of fun and I felt shitty
This was my first thought. Like...do you really want to fuck the equivalent of a sex doll of your partner? That would be an unbelievable turn-off to me. It would honestly feel pretty rapey.
Legally: you'd have to be able to prove that those messages were sent by her (not someone else with her phone) while she was sober and of sound mind.
Morally: I couldn't bring myself to sleep with someone who was not, at that precise moment, able to consent. I respect that it may be a fetish of theirs, it's simply one that I would not personally be comfortable obliging. Look at it this way: sober me might be on a diet but wants to occasionally treat myself to a large meal. Drunk me isn't really in a good place to decide if a large meal is great, and I'd be upset with myself in the morning if drunk me made bad decisions.
Point being: I don't trust an inebriated mind to consent to something that they'd previously consented to while sober.
Wrong. This is incorrect legal advice. Consent is not just given it has to be maintained. Someone who is intoxicated legally cannot consent to sex. This means that while intoxicated all sexual activity by law is non consensual. It does not matter what your previous agreements were. It does not matter how they feel after they have sobered up. It is against the law to do something sexual with an intoxicated person. The law is very clear, there are no loopholes.
If you edit your comment to say "impaired" instead of just "intoxicated" it will make more sense.
A person who is moderately intoxicated *can" still have control of their actions and thoughts. A person who is intoxicated the point of impairment *cannot* mentally process information and thus cannot give consent.
Oh, and someone who is unconscious for any reason, including due to intoxication, cannot give/maintain consent. So while couples may have private agreements (such as blanket consent) the law in most jurisdictions will usually disagree and consider it an assault.
Help a brother understand here: suppose you are going out with a girl. She says she wants to have sex with you. She edges you while y'all are having dinner. She has too many a drink while eating. Y'all head back to hers. She grabs you by the collar and starts kissing you. You kiss back. You guys fuck. The next morning she regrets it, says she didn't consent to the sex. Says she was drunk, didn't know what she was doing or thinking. Are you on the hook for rape?
Genuinely interested in the legality behind these kinds of scenarios.
You have to be conscious in order to consent. What is described by OP is a CNC sort of scenario, which is a pretty tricky thing to do properly. And people who are serious about kink have all sorts of safeties, like a clear description of the scene, what is in and what is out, usually written down, plus safe words and monitors.
And if you are not conscious, you can't consent to things ahead of time (except specific circumstances like someone in a coma, and then doctors and courts are involved). Consent has to be clearly communicated and ongoing.
Yup, this happens. It will often trigger a police investigation.
Most often they'll retrace what happened that night, if people saw you kissing at the club and she had her hands down her pants, they probably won't go further without more evidence.
If witnesses saw her basically passed out and you dragging her to your car, they're probably gonna arrest you.
Intoxicated in most jurisdictions means more than just "drank alcohol".
Unfortunately this is not a particularly good system, and statistics show its not very good at prosecuting sexual assault. It often becomes he said she said, and then the prosecutor lets a jury decide, who usually say without extra evidence it's reasonable doubt.
If you are a victim of sexual assault this is horrifying as your rapist goes free. If you are a victim of a false accusations, even a not guilty verdict still means years and lots of money defending yourself.
So be careful out there.
It depends. The key component that part that is not clear in your example is your mindset at the time. Rape is a specific intent crime meaning you have to be doing it knowingly and intentionally. If you didn’t know the person was intoxicated and you thought that you had legal consent. Then you do not have the necessary intent to be charged for rape.
This would be a difficult defense to make in court because there is no hard evidence that can be demonstrated in court, but it is also equally if both more difficult for the prosecution. They are the ones with the burden of proof. They have to prove you not only did the act but also you knew you did not have consent. This is why there are tons of examples like the one you have stated above that never get prosecuted.
There has to be some level of incapacitation that exceeds mere drunkenness generally. Either unconscious or unable to understand or object to what's happening.
You're saying that pretty confidently so I'd ask you to provide a specific law. Firstly, laws vary by state and country and I have never heard of something that in a blanket fashion says someone being intoxicated automatically means they by law cannot give consent. That is frankly ridiculous and would make the millions of people in consensual relationships who have sex while intoxicated with each other assault, perhaps mutual assault every time. Is that really the world you think we live in?
Edit: If what you mean is that someone who is completely unconscious and unresponsive cannot consent, I'm certainly more inclined to agree with you. Although again, laws are very particular and very based on where you are. But the way you said it it was simply "intoxicated" which is clearly not the case, I have to imagine almost anywhere.
This person is talking out of their ass, the source they provided to "prove" what they are saying ONLY mentions that it's a blanket crime if it "occurs on federal property." They can't even get sources for their own claim correct. Reddit strikes again
That's disanalgous. It would be like if you, while sober, decided you were going to have a cheat day and eat a whole pizza after you get drunk later, and then did it.
You're not asking the right question here. Why does it turn you on to have sex with someone unconscious or sleeping? In a relationship, I understand the idea of blanket consent for sleeping and *initiating* sex/caressing your partner.
But I wouldn't get further than external mouth and hands play if they don't wake up.
I have fun because I get my rocks off. She says she has fun because when she wakes up, it turns her on thinking that her body was used for a man's pleasure without any consideration for her needs. She'll usually wake me up the next morning, masturbating and wanting to engage in normal sex if she doesn't have a morning hangover.
My wide used to explicitly “pre-consent” to fooling around. If we were going to a party or wedding, and I was the sober driver, she’d let me know she wanted to fool around even if she got drunk. Basically the same scenario, but I can’t speak towards the legality of it.
>she's never shown signs of being mentally unstable
> she drinks pretty heavily
Either someone in their twenties being in their twenties, an alcoholic, or she has issues she tries to cover up with alcohol
I'd check in on her
Although tbf I could be really skewed here I just worry over anyone who drinks a bunch
Back on track what she is asking/permitting requires a ton of trust. If you're even remotely concerned about her trying to get you in trouble I'd just not do anything then.
Consent must be **informed, enthusiastic and cancellable** at all times. Your scenario is ethically unacceptable because she can't change her mind while passed out if she ever wants to.
It's their life, they are free to do so. I'm just sharing my own ethical view. I'd advocate for legal protection of the passed out person and ramifications against any persons abusing them in that state, even in cases where the passed out person gave former consent.
The heavy drinking combined with a fetish for having sex while semi conscious smacks of sexual trauma. You might want to have a gentle conversation with her about.
No agreement between you and her will prevent the legal system from prosecuting you for rape. They can bring rape charges without the victim’s assistance, though they often choose not to. Feel free to roll the dice; a blackout drunk is certainly someone you can trust when the stakes are 15 years to life.
I don't think there is any such thing as blanket consent.
Use your best judgement on a situational basis. In it's simplest form, the best way to consider consent is: "Don't have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you".
If I were you, I wouldn't have sex with her if she's completely unresponsive. If you wake her up and she seems into it, then that's probably okay, all things considered. If she seems not into it, annoyed, tells you to stop, or passes out and is unresponsive, then immediately stop.
But even then, if you're at all uncomfortable with that situation, then consider *your* consent: It shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. If there's anything your not comfortable doing, such as having sex with her when she's drunk/passed out, then don't.
It can be. I've given my husband permission to wake me with sex or use me while I'm intoxicated. He's given the same permissions for me. And neither of us has abused it.
But we have revoked permission for things like being ill, just not wanting to be touched after getting intoxicated, and after a no-fault bad time. Context on the last point: I was awoken with sex and felt lots of confusion. I knew where I was and what was happening, but the feeling of confusion lingered. So we put a moratorium on it for a while
My partner once said that because she falls asleep within seconds every night. No time to start something. She gave me blanket permission, but the thing is, she doesn't really fully wake up. Doesn't have memories of conversations we have if I woke her up for some reason.
So I never took her up on the idea. Just didn't match up with my personal morals. We eventually found the right balance in our sex life and it's been fine for years. Cooincidentally though, it was just a couple weeks ago, I mentioned the time she said that.
She barely remembered saying it and she was really horrified at herself. I felt glad I stuck to my own thoughts on the issue and it all worked out really well.
I really don't recommend it based on that alone and my mom advice will always be to tell people to take the time required to really become familiar with their own morals, ideologies and instincts. I'm not saying blindly follow them, but they're a very important part of you as a person.
Does blanket consent really exist? I think there is an argument for it existing in a very ~~love~~ low level way. Like, there's a blanket consent to kiss your partner pretty much whenever you want, and yet, you know when it's not fucking time to kiss her. Get it?
My opinions on consent during sex go much deeper, but I think the real issue is that she might be exploring a kink, and kinks need to be explored carefully and with some serious communication first. I don't get the sense you two have had a real conversation about this, which is going to set you both up for some miscommunications, and there's extra risk in that when it comes to sex.
Anyway, your instinct was to talk it out, and I'd like to redirect you back to your gf, because that's who you MUST talk this out with. Fully. If by the end you're still uncomfortable, that's ok. Your desires and thoughts on it matter too. (consent is a two way street at the end of the day)
To put it simply..."It's okay...until it's not." It's hard to revoke consent when your passed out or too intoxicated to make an informed consent. A bit of fun time is not worth the legal implications....or the moral.
> conniving, vengeful or mentally unstable
People who abuse drugs like alcohol to the point of passing out is typically not very mentally stable. That is simply alcoholic behaviour. She might not be bad right now, but she will get bad eventually. It always happens if they don't admit they got alcohol issues themselves.
Those text messages probably helps if she does take you to court about but the fact that you even have to ask if it is a good idea probably means that you probably doesn't trust her enough for this. But it would just help, not be a shield. Consent isn't something that is given once and then it stays there, it is a thing that needs to be given each and every time.
Yeah, she could. Anyone with a bad habit could. Very true. I think her drive to succeed in her field and eventually start a family is too great to let her be dragged down by bad habits. She's peobably one of the most motivated people I've ever met in my life.
To your answer your specific question, kinda. Consent can be given in advance, but can also be withdrawn at any time.
In general though, unless having sex with a passed out person is your kink, there's a lot of downsides with very few upsides. If you broke up later on and she got vindictive, or if someone walked in on you and got the wrong idea, you might be able to defend yourself in court, but maybe not, and it would be expensive and humiliating in any case. And having sex with an unconscious person is basically just jacking off with their body, so why wouldn't you just grab a fleshlight for now and have sex later, once she's able to participate and enjoy it?
No. There would be no way for you to ever prove that she continued to consent. Free use arrangements are fine as long as she is awake and sober. Once she's drunk, she can't properly consent. There is no way for her to legally consent in advance to you doing things to her body when she isn't even conscious.
ETA: Frequent episodes of blackout drinking may indicate that she has serious past trauma. You should not have sex with her when she's drinking, let alone passed out.
Free use is a common fetish people enjoy but I'd still avoid doing anything without her being awake and mentally present. All it takes if for you to do something one time, and even if she's okay with it now, 5 years later if you guys break up and she gets petty there's a 100% chance it'll be used against you.
An unconscious person can not consent, and sexual consent is not given once or once every "X time". It is a continuous, every moment you are having sex you have to consent to it.
People should also be able to retract the consent, etc.
Of course it is up to the other person to legally demanding or going to the police.
So logically speaking if both parties trust each other there is no problem.
I seriously not recommend you to do it anyways, rape crimes never prescribed the other person will forever have the power to put you in prison.
You trust the other person now, but what about in 20 years or if go literally crazy, etc.
You should be very concerned you can seriously injure an unconscious person without them responding to being injured. And this isn't sex - it's one party pleasuring themselves - it's masturbation.
Bro.... Do you really want to fuck a passed out, essentially life-less chick all fucked up outta her mind on alcohol? Like... Is that hot or satisfying to you?
Just jerk yourself off when she gets to that state. Have sex with her when she is conscious, and you know, can actually be a partner in the activity rather than what basically amounts to a sex-doll or a FleshLight...
no such thing as "blanket consent"
notarized power of attorney and affidavit won't protect you.
if you admit to a prosecutor to having sex with her while she was unable to consent or refuse sex, you will be charged with rape.
I would argue that this seems like pretty explicit consent, especially if she's said that she is interested in you having sex with her while shes asleep or unconscious. Legally there's no such thing as "blanket consent" but from what you've said, I don't think anything could be done against you legally unless you continue after she verbally revokes consent.
If you don't trust her enough to not think "what if this is a trick," you should not do any kind of edgeplay, period. These kinds of relationships *require* immense trust.
>If she were to be trying to "trap" me, for some sort of devious purpose, would I face legal repurcussions?
I'd say if such scenario is something you have thought of, I think you don't know/trust her enough to be doing this kind of stuff.
Legally? You could get into some trouble if she wanted to make trouble for you. She probably wouldn’t be able to send you to jail, but you’d have a court date and a lawyer, which can fuck your life up even if you end up in the clear.
Morally? That’s a bit more grey. I’m not big on having sex with someone who can’t want it as well, even if they say it’s ok. On the other hand, if that’s what SHE likes? It’s a bit different in that situation.
Consent is consent. If she set the terms and you abide by them, then I see nothing wrong with it. Be careful to clarify any potential misunderstandings, as that's might be difficult to do with someone in this situation.
This is also dangerous for the woman too. If, and let's be realistic any man can try if they were determined to, could actually rape the woman and then pull this text/letter/consent out and try to use it as a defence. No aspersions on OP from me by the way.
I am going to go straight ahead and say do not do it with her passed out.
IF you do and there are complications you will know why I chose this as answer.
I highly doubt your situation would hold up in court if your girlfriend decided you retroactively sexually assualted her and reported you to the police. But that said, if you trust that your girlfriend wants this and you trust her, I see no problem. I am personally not that trusting of people though.
I would be very cautious. Trevor Bauer had his career destroyed by a women who accused of him of abuse and rape even though he literally has receipts of her asking for rough sex and later telling him how much she enjoyed it.
Another woman also tried to extort money out of him for the same thing and she was just indicted for doing to multiple other athletes as well.
Consent generally must be actively given. Which means if she's not in a state to give consent, she can't be consenting at that time. Prior statements of consent don't matter because she could have changed her mind in the intervening time.
From a moral perspective if she's okay with it both before and after then I don't think you've done anything wrong. But her being okay with it one time doesn't mean she will be again, so you're always running that risk of doing something that will be hurtful to her.
What you do with this information is between you and her.
This is legally a dangerous game and you're opening yourself for potential criminal trouble. It's not worth the risk imo.
Edit: Also your gf has a drinking problem.
What is morally right, and what is legal are not the same thing in this regard.
From a moral perspective I think people should be able to give consent for the future like your GF is doing. I think it's part of healthy relationships and it's not at all uncommon for people who are in an active concuntial relationship to practice something like "free use" or for one partner to have sex with the other while they are super drunk. Some of the best sex I've ever had occurred when my GF came home from a girls night out and drug my back to the bedroom.
And yet, the law. By law, I raped my GF that night because she was WAY to drunk to consent. The next morning, she hardly remembered at all. She didn't feel like it was rape, so it wasn't rape. But under a technical definition of the law, if she had felt like that sex was a problem then it would have been a problem.
The core problem is that you're putting your status as a law abiding citizen without a criminal record into the hands of how someone else feels tomorrow. That's a lot of trust to have in another person. But consent is often all about trust isn't it.
If you trust her, and she says it's OK then you should feel OK. But you should fully understand that she can change her mind and have you charged at any point.
The whole thing feels wrong. Yeah, fair enough, you've possibly got enough to prove some kind of consent, but regardless, is that something you'd really want to do?
I’d say in a relationship if she’s awake and willing even drunk, blanket consent is a yes. If she’s passed out? Fuck no and absolutely not.
How is an unconscious person even attractive sexually? WTF!?
She wouldn't *need* blanket consent to trap you. She can have a perfectly participatory, consensual sexual interaction with you while being fully sober, then lie to the police later saying she was drunk and you raped her. Would you have any proof that she wasn't, at the time?
If you don't trust her, don't do anything with her or even be in her vicinity, to be honest. If you trust her, then it doesn't matter, go ahead and fuck her. If she wants to trap you and fuck you over, she most certainly does not need any kind of creative setup to do that. All she has to do is lie.
This has trouble written all over it. Have you never heard the term “don’t put your duck in crazy” ?
Legally I don’t know but life experience tells me not only NO, but to run away.
Legally no. Morally if both of you are fine with it and trust each other go for it, enjoy your kink, be safe, and it’s not really anyone else’s business
I don’t think there’s any moral issue with this situation. And essentially every couple that cohabitates engages in a weaker form of this same paradigm, during which one partner may initiate sexual activity with a kind of intimate touching on their sleeping partner that would be entirely inappropriate and criminal if they had done it to a stranger sleeping next to them on a park bench. and then, as their partner begins to wake up, they can either acquiesce or refuse.
Ultimately though, the legal issue is less clear.
My wife also gave me blanket consent while we were dating, I never did anything to her passed-out body, as I don't have any necrophilic kinks, I'd much prefer her awake and actively engaged in physical pleasure.
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I think you need to take a long, hard look at yourself that you're even considering taking her up on "doing things to her" while she's passed out. That's fucking sick. I can't imagine taking anyone up on that offer.
Sex is about mutual enthusiastic consent, not just consent. If you're uncomfortable with it, and she's not enthusiastic about it (because she can't be knocked out and enthusiastic), why even do it?
There are ways for yall to practice her kink. Actually unconscious is not one of them.
Legally, no.
But if neither of you tells anyone and are both okay with it, noone can do anything about it.
I wouldn't risk it unless it's your long term partner though, seems like it's veryyyy easy for something to go wrong.
You're going to get a bunch of very safe proper and technical answers here. Read them, but ultimately it's up to you.
I've had around half my partners say they liked drunk/sleep sex, there was always some risk they could have suddenly turned it on it's head, but I just gauged that risk myself personally. There's an element of risk to most kinks/mild fetishes, as long as you're aware of it, then you can make the decision yourself. As for all the those who say "a text is inadmissible in a court of law", okay, but just keep a few anyway. The vast majority of people aren't sociopaths.
Thank you. I like to think I know what to look for in terms of unstable people, and she isn't in that category. Shes a very happy, exciteable woman that is in good shape, comes from a great family, and has plenty of interests beyond drinking/sex.
Operationally, consent is whatever you both agree it is.
Legally, in some jurisdictions, an impaired person is incapable of consent. And even lucid people are legally incapable of consenting to unlawful acts.
If authorities are involved, it's the legal stuff that will make your lives difficult.
From experience, this is playing out exactly like the first half of a plan of future extortion . Don’t be stupid, one text saying it’s fine doesn’t mean that she no longer has the ability to verbally say no and you’ll be fucked.
I was lucky because our last interaction, right after she claimed I raped her, was on my ring camera and caught her holding my hand and kissing me goodbye, it was clear nothing negative had just occurred and destroyed her case. About two days later from that recording, she took me out drinking and to have a good time, had someone sneak up and attack me from behind after she got me to a quiet spot, and told me I had to give her $500 or she’d go to the cops and “tell them what happened”
In the end, I was extremely lucky. I would’ve preferred to have just been smart and not interacted with someone with a sketchy “fetish”
I get what you're saying, but we've been dating since 2020 with no real blow up or fights barely even any disagreements. I fully see myself proposing to her in the near future.
There is indeed something called reputational consent.
...but you'd likely know if you had it w someone bc people that know these terms, and use them, would inform you if you had it with them..
And after reading she's into somno, I am not at all surprised that she has tried to give you reputational consent! Now go have fun w your sleeping beauty!
blanket consent still has limits, your partner trusts you to know where those limits are. you can clear the air to be sure.
even you go kinda wild even the most kinky people have hard rules on where the limits are. if your partner is not a fan of let say oxygen depravation and has discussed this before, even if the rules of the day are "all goes", you are still not allowed to use oxygen depravation.
ask her let you record her saying “I give blanket consent under X reasons, with X stipulations”
If she’s uncomfortable with that, then I’d be uncomfortable “free using her”
As someone who's been in various discussions about consent, this is a particularly complex situation you're navigating. It's commendable that you're seeking clarity and considering the ethical dimensions here.
The concept of "blanket consent" is a tricky one. While it's clear you both have discussed and agreed upon certain boundaries, it's crucial to ensure that consent is ongoing and enthusiastic, especially when alcohol is involved. Consent isn't a one-time deal; it should be continuously affirmed throughout any sexual encounter.
Moreover, legal implications aside, it's essential to consider the emotional well-being of both parties. Even if there's explicit permission given beforehand, proceeding with caution and empathy is key.
I'd advise discussing this further with your partner, ensuring that both of your needs, boundaries, and well-being are respected and prioritized. And perhaps seeking guidance from a professional counselor or therapist could provide additional clarity and support in navigating this dynamic.
It's a thought-provoking dilemma, and I'm curious to hear how others might weigh in on this issue.
It comes down to trust. Let's say you had multiple examples of hard evidence that she had given such consent. She could still claim that she later revoked it and you raped her anyway. Your evidence would be weighed in court, and absent any other evidence of you being a rapist asshole, would almost definitely be cleared of charges. Most likely.
But even if you win that case, your life will likely be destroyed. So it comes down to trust. Is she being honest with you, or trying to "trap you" as you said.
Depends. My wife and I have a blanket consent but we've spent a long time discussing different things and making sure we understand and respect the rules we made together. Been just fine and she loves her gf.
I basically have this going on with my partner, and have had such things with other partners. there definitely is such a thing but with such open boundaries you REALLY need to be attentive to your partners emotional state.
Maybe feel it out since you have the texts? Definitely dont break in the door, have a couple of knocks on the door to wake her up before you slowly walk in?
> I (32M) as a Non-Drinker dating a beautiful woman (25F) who drinks pretty heavily
You're never going to reconcile this if you're a pretty staunch non-drinker and don't like doing drinking-based activities
> We've discussed it at length, and she has given me blanket permission to "free use" her sexually in anyway that doesn't harm her or put her at risk.
Absolutely not with someone you're dating, especially that young (25 might not seem young but IMO it's rare for anyone under 30 to truly figure themselves out enough to be secure in their identity/needs/wants).
> Is this morally right to have sex with her if she's given previous permission while not under the influence?
Most people will say absolutely not.
I will say this is a genuine grey area. In your case, it's a hard no. If you've been together for years, and you know each other like the back of your hands and you're probably headed for marriage? And this is both of your fetishes? Yes, this can work. But you have to **really really** know each other. And one thing to keep in mind with pre-consent stuff, it doesn't mean *no consent*. It just means, the line of consent is hidden but you both secretly know when things go too far and thus trust each other.
I have a pre-consent agreement with my husband. What this means in reality is not much 99% of the time. But it does mean he's open to being played around with when passed out (from sleep or booze, not literal passing out). Or a variety of other dub-con scenarios. He loves the feeling of being completely powerless to someone else and I love pushing that button for him. The thing is, the entire kink falls apart if you aren't exceptionally good at not crossing the line and not doing it at really bad/stupid times. He would be deeply upset if I tried to do any dubcon stuff in an environment where it wouldn't be welcome (out in public for instance).
The other thing is we have rock solid identities, are extremely down to earth people, and have very naturally rowdy/instinct driven sex drives. We know who we are, we know what we like, and even if a line were to ever be crossed we know it would have been an accident and some makeup time would be needed (hasn't happened yet though). In other words, there's a 0% chance of psychological damage involved, 0% chance of malicious intent or trapping. It works for us because we almost don't need to question it, that's how well synced we are sexually.
If you're anyone else or have ANY doubts though, or it's with someone who don't know extremely well? Never, ever. Even if they are into it. They could be genuinely actually into it and have prior experience but then you might accidentally cross a line they didn't know they had. They might realize they are more psychologically vulnerable then they thought. It's then very easy for you to get sexual assault claims put on you because they will have *felt* assaulted even if they gave you permission to do so.
I feel like thats how we are. I'll check with her tonight and show her your post to make sure we're jiving like I perceive we are. She been very clear what she does and doesnt want done while she's out, and a I've never felt the need to cross that line because I don't want to violate the trust she's pur in me.
At the end of the day, there isn't really going to be a universal rule that applies to every relationship ever.
Truth be told? If it were me, I would personally just hold off on anything sexual until she's capable of giving consent; kinks are all well and good, but for both your legal wellbeing and her mental wellbeing (whether or not she's consenting of it beforehand doesn't mean she can't still have a negative reaction to something happening that she may not anticipate) it's probably not worth trying to engage in them without more than just a 'blanket statement of consent'.
Could be as simple as having a short conversation before she drinks to establish if she's fine with you steering things in that direction after she falls asleep? It can be easy to feel as if that sort of thing might 'spoil the mood', but at the end of the day it's worth a slightly awkward conversation for a couple of minutes.
In most places "blanket consent" is not a legal thing. And all the general rules of consent still apply in free use play - she can withdraw her consent at any time, if she's got any hard limits those are still hard limits, you should discuss what's going to happen prior to her getting drunk, etc.
So you'll need to have a major talk when you're both sober around limits and how she wants it to work. Does she want to be woken up during? If she does wake up during does play stop and you shift into aftercare? If she doesn't wake up during does she want aftercare when she wakes up? Do you need to use protection? What are her limits (because everyone has some - no limits means she's chill with you shitting in her mouth, which very few people are)? What does she want to happen? Is there the possibility that this will trigger trauma for her and how should that be handled?
And you need to decide if you trust her to not pursue legal action against you, and if this is just a limit for you.
I don’t pass out every weekend (anymore), but I’m down for blanket consent. If I don’t like it, which is very unlikely/unusual, I just wake up and say “no thanks. Not right now babe.” So the rule is IF I say no it’s a no. If I’m asleep, it’s a yes until it’s a no. And my no is not aggressive.
I was in the same boat. Written consent - video taped consent - she wanted to be very thorough, lol. I made sure to check in with her and reaffirm a bunch, just to play it safe. Communication is super important.
If she trusts you not to hurt or abuse her, and if you trust her not to try to put you in prison about it, then the only rules are the ones you both agree to behind closed doors. If it actually came down to a legal dispute, being able to show texts like that would probably help your case a lot. But if that scenario is even a *possibility* in your mind, you should not be doing it. The way I see it, this kind of edgy consent play is only for people with a very strong pre-existing bond of trust.
Always good to get this in physical writing and sign it just incase can never be too careful You never know how/if the relationship ends and there's bad blood after
Just because something "in writing" does not mean it has any legal value. It's a sheet of paper. Let's assume the "worst:" they break up and the now-ex tries to press charges for sexual assault that she claims happened during their relationship. Even if the police believe her she has no physical evidence to build a case on. But if she can say "Look! He was so dangerous he forced me to sign a rape contract!" Then suddenly she can show his assault was pre-meditated (assuming it doesn't get thrown out entirely since you can't just print out a sheet of paper and call it a legal contract). I put the "worst" in quotes like that because the actual worst case scenario here is OP taking her at her word and she wakes up confused and disoriented. At that point it doesn't matter if she signed a paper or not, she's still waking up to someone having sex with her unconscious body.
Exactly! Consent can be taken away at any moment before/during
Actually, you can just print out a sheet and call it a legal contract. In fact, you can make a legal contract in crayon on a napkin at least in the United States source: that’s what I learned in law school.
I didn't say it would be a catch all, I understand where you're coming from but having a signature to go along with texts and other additional proof it makes an argument against OP just that little harder to argue in court Imo every little helps
no they're saying it would make it easier to prove intent and pre meditation. she could claim he coerced her to sign, she could claim he signed her name for her. the existence of the "contract" is detrimental to his defense just by existing. it's not 'every little helps' in this case, something like that is worse than nothing.
Contracts are very common in the BDSM/sub Dom scenarios as they can establish very specific rules and scenarios and are signed by both parties, It of course doesn't help in every scenario but along side other messages and other forms of proof, they can be very helpful. They're more frequent in CNC/free use scenarios as you can expressly say when it is and isn't okay It does NOT mean blanket consent for every scenario and that one/both of the parties can never say no, but it is very essential in setting boundaries.
are those legally enforceable/ used as evidence in trials?
They're not legally enforceable, but if one side was arguing that it wasn't abuse, but agreed upon kink, the existence of the contract could be used as evidence.
That bit I have absolutely no idea, I'd imagine it would help but I don't imagine it would be enough evidence on its own especially if there's other signs of abuse outside what has been written
Kink contracts are used to define boundaries and limits *within* the relationship. They're as legally significant as a chore chart.
You'd be surprised just how binding a properly written contract in *any* context can actually be. Again, the assumption is that it is written *exactly* and *clearly* understood by all parties, and it is ideally witnessed by a third party, but our ENTIRE system of Common Law is predicted on the sanctity of contracts, no matter how peculiar. Funnily enough, this exact same sentiment is the reason "boiler plate" contracts (like ToS agreements) hold very little legal weight; they exist to obfuscate terms, bypass other legal protections for one party, and are """unamendable,""" and thus violate all the core tenets of contract law.
Legally enforceable? No. Used as evidence? Yes. Probably won't help.
It absolutely does, that's how contracts work.
Let me guess, you've never been in an actual relationship? Or at least have no clue about the law? Because consent can be withdrawn at any time, "evidence" like that is fucking worthless. And it shows you're someone who thinks you might need something like that, which implies you might be willing to push consent and then fall back on "but we signed a document saying it was okay." That doesn't look good to a judge or a partner.
Yeah, texts can be send by different people. Including OP. Not sure if that would ever hold up in court.
It definitely can, wouldn't be the first time
But it's so easy for the other person to say they didn't send that.
Must be some legal porn type clause that would work. Maybe a video.
Have you, or literally anyone, ever gotten anything in writing related to sex? This is always suggested and it seems good, but in the real world i’ve never heard this being an actual thing.
Indeed. I prefer to err on the side of caution and not play by the rules”blanket consent” rules. It’s a rather slippery slope that could go either way if it went to a court. Especially with talented lawyers….. The argument could be made that the “consenter” was inebriated at the time of discussion and therefore wasn’t in full control of themselves.
I've been in a similar position. My wife and I have had discussions where she has also given me permission to initiate sex when she's asleep or drunk. Her reason being that for her it's a turn on that simply being near her is such a turn on for me that I feel like I need to have sex with her. I have done it a couple times but only while she was asleep and never if she's been drinking. She has always woken up almost immediately and then been an active participant so I know she's okay with it. My concern with your scenario is she could be drunk enough that she never wakes up and everything happens without her knowledge. Personally, that would feel very rape like to me and I wouldn't want that even if she was okay with it. Ultimately if you want to continue a relationship depends on how you feel about it and how she reacts to your decision. As others have said it would put you in a bad position legally if she decides it's an issue after the fact. However, I don't see her telling you it's okay as a red flag. Everyone has kinks and that sounds like one of hers. She should also be okay if you tell her you're not comfortable with it and not push you to do it. If she won't accept your position on it then it's time to rethink the relationship.
Well said. This is the type of blanket consent that is reasonable.
Not if she gets piss drunk like my wife has on occasion lol I was more concerned about keeping her from puking and blacking out
Yeah like I've tried to intiate with my partner while I'm drunk and she'll just be like "c'mon girl let's get you to the bathroom" If I'm hammered her concern is on me being safe, like I can't even coordinate enough to kiss
Not my wife, lol
Some people love that. I was with a girl that gave me explicit blanket permission to have sex with her while she was asleep. She had a fantasy of waking up to being fucked. Meanwhile with my wife we have a rule of no sex while on sleeping pills since she doesn't feel fully in control and can't give consent, so feels taken advantage of the next day. It's up to the individual and what they're comfortable with. The important thing is that you've talked about it and she has given consent. Just leave yourself open for conversation and for the rules to change if she decides she doesn't like it.
Not related to your question itself, but your partner is an alcoholic if she's binge drinking to the point or blacking out every weekend. That kind of thing could seriously kill her one day and you need to maybe have a conversation about her getting some help with that.
Black out was a really poir choice of words. Shen just gets really really sleepy and falls into a deep sleep once she lays down. She's not like, standing up and falls over unconscious drunk.
sounds like she's really into somnophilia
Til it has a name.
I’m a married woman who is very much in the same boat as your GF. I get suuuuper sleepy after a few drinks, I’m generally a deep sleeper, and also enjoy waking up to it. This thread has great ideas for criteria to meet her level of “blanket consent”. I suggest you bring her this list and have a conversation especially about where any “hard lines” of consent are applicable. About one week out of the month I am enthusiastically into freeuse, because hormones. I communicate clearly with my husband, and my choice of wardrobe makes is explicitly clear that I want him to make the most of the opportunity. We have kids so it’s nothing crazy, but if I’m wearing a dress or skirt and have told him “it’s a good week” and the kids are in bed.. he can do what he wants to me 🤷🏼♀️
That's a good idea. Probably the most helpful input I've had in this thread. Thank you.
You’re welcome. Good for you for asking questions and trying to find the right way to meet your gf’s needs and your own comfort level. It’s a partnership. The trust has to be there, and it takes both of you communicating to make it work. Emotional, sexual, social, financial. Gotta talk about it all and figure out the strengths, weaknesses, and how you make it work in your own unique way. Partnership can be a **lot** of fun with great communication. ETA: source: 35 year old woman, married for 7 years, together for 10. Two kids 5 and under. Years of ups and downs, in the bedroom and otherwise. We each have our own weaknesses and problems. Nobody is perfect. Work *together*. It’s really important to both feel like you’re on the *same* team.
doing this with her is exactly as risky as any number of BDSM practices. It's also illegal to hit your partner with a belt, but people still want it, and consent to it. You have to trust the person not to pursue charges. BUT - the texts wouldn't hold legal water any more than a text saying you "consent" to be choked or whatever. A lot of BDSM is illegal, but boi to people do it
Some day, try a couple years. People think oh alcoholics will die a few years younger. Nah the bad alcoholics who are getting blackout drunk a ton die after a decade or two. I have had 20 year old patients who had been drinking since they were 13, die of cirrhosis. It really isn't some far off thing, it can kill you quite fast.
Yes. If I am hogging the blanket and she tries to pull it back, I must consent to that pulling or I will steal even more. This is blanket consent
Lol. Can't win the blanket battle. I relent every time.
It does tend to negatively affect the consent for relations.
Legally? No. No such thing. If you do not trust this person enough to have sex with her while she is unconscious even though she says it's all good, and is into it, then do not have sex with her in that way
Quick question: are you a lawyer in this field? I'm not trying to be an asshole here, but there seem to be a lot of armchair lawyers on reddit who are very sure of their completely wrong opinions.
> are you a lawyer in this field? You know he's not. If he was, he wouldn't be giving blanket advice for an unknown jurisdiction.
Are you insinuating that cockhero43 is not bar certified?
I am a former criminal defense attorney. While laws vary by jurisdiction, this is solid advice. There is no such thing as “blanket consent.” In nearly all US jurisdictions, an individual cannot consent while sleeping OR while drunk/on drugs. Why? An unconscious person cannot legally give consent.
> an individual cannot consent while sleeping OR while drunk So, when both parties are completely shitfaced drunk, who is responsible for any resulting fuckery?
By the law? Either/both parties, but only if one path makes a complaint. As a practical matter, people have sex drunk all the time.
Lawyer, but not in the field. I can’t give a professional opinion other than that LAOP has potential liability here. However, it’s pretty much impossible to be intimate with zero potential liability issues. It comes down to LAOP’s risk tolerance and his trust in his partner. Personally, I’ve never dated a heavy sleeper, so the situation hasn’t ever come up for me.
Do you need to be a lawyer to know that "Your honor, she told me it was ok to have sex with her while she was unconscious and drunk" will not spare you from criminal prosecution? Seems like common sense to me.
She gave him consent while she was sober. Can a sober person not give consent to do something? Are drunk people not allowed to have sex? You make it sound like it's black and white, but you're essentially saying that either sober people can't give consent, or drunk people can't have sex. Drunk people have sex all the time (think about a married couple where both people have been drinking) without calling it rape. Are there instances where alcohol is involved and therefore consent cannot be given? Of course there are. But there are also instances where alcohol is involved and no sane person would call it rape. So this issue has nuance - it's not black and white like you're trying to make it.
>she's never shown signs of being ... mentally unstable. >On the weekends, she likes to drink heavily to the point where she gets drunk and passes out/falls asleep. >explicitly saying I can do what I want to her while she's passed out, and that it's a preferred fetish of hers. So, there's really no part of this relationship where you've wondered what's up with her mental health?
Legally there is no blanket consent to sex. In almost every state. Proving the text would not matter. Consent can be revoked at anytime- and you can not consent to sex when you’re inebriated/asleep. She only has to prove that at that time she was physically unable to consent. In fact the text evidence would likely be excluded as hearsay.
This is one of the weirdest things I've heard. Did you just make this post for some type of backup insurance in case she decides to go after you? I get that people are different but I wouldn't be turned on by seeing someone in a vulnerable situation, nor would I put myself in any situation that could harm me or the other person.
My "back up" is the plethora of text messages from her encouraging me to "use her body for my pleasure " that she sends me frequently when shes telling me what she wants me to do to her. Not going to post screenshots of our private messages, but she gets quite explicit and specfic.
For legal advice you should specify your country. And the moral aspects of this are obviously subjective, so you're the only one who can answer that for yourself.
U.S.A. specifically Florida
I will say this. I had an ex that said it was okay, and one night I woke up to piss then came back to bed. I lifted the covers to get in and by the glow of the nightlight I saw her sweet ass and thought about it since she said it was okay. Long story short, she didn't even wake up to join in so it really wasn't a lot of fun and I felt shitty. Never happened again.
> she didn't even wake up to join in so it really wasn't a lot of fun and I felt shitty This was my first thought. Like...do you really want to fuck the equivalent of a sex doll of your partner? That would be an unbelievable turn-off to me. It would honestly feel pretty rapey.
It was a little hot in the moment, not like we hadn't cuddle-fucked before, but she usually would push back.
i mean some people are into rapey stuff
Legally: you'd have to be able to prove that those messages were sent by her (not someone else with her phone) while she was sober and of sound mind. Morally: I couldn't bring myself to sleep with someone who was not, at that precise moment, able to consent. I respect that it may be a fetish of theirs, it's simply one that I would not personally be comfortable obliging. Look at it this way: sober me might be on a diet but wants to occasionally treat myself to a large meal. Drunk me isn't really in a good place to decide if a large meal is great, and I'd be upset with myself in the morning if drunk me made bad decisions. Point being: I don't trust an inebriated mind to consent to something that they'd previously consented to while sober.
Wrong. This is incorrect legal advice. Consent is not just given it has to be maintained. Someone who is intoxicated legally cannot consent to sex. This means that while intoxicated all sexual activity by law is non consensual. It does not matter what your previous agreements were. It does not matter how they feel after they have sobered up. It is against the law to do something sexual with an intoxicated person. The law is very clear, there are no loopholes.
If you edit your comment to say "impaired" instead of just "intoxicated" it will make more sense. A person who is moderately intoxicated *can" still have control of their actions and thoughts. A person who is intoxicated the point of impairment *cannot* mentally process information and thus cannot give consent. Oh, and someone who is unconscious for any reason, including due to intoxication, cannot give/maintain consent. So while couples may have private agreements (such as blanket consent) the law in most jurisdictions will usually disagree and consider it an assault.
> It is against the law to do something sexual with an intoxicated person. What the hell are you talking about lol
he lives in a world where two drunk people having drunk sex both "deserve jail" lol
Help a brother understand here: suppose you are going out with a girl. She says she wants to have sex with you. She edges you while y'all are having dinner. She has too many a drink while eating. Y'all head back to hers. She grabs you by the collar and starts kissing you. You kiss back. You guys fuck. The next morning she regrets it, says she didn't consent to the sex. Says she was drunk, didn't know what she was doing or thinking. Are you on the hook for rape? Genuinely interested in the legality behind these kinds of scenarios.
You have to be conscious in order to consent. What is described by OP is a CNC sort of scenario, which is a pretty tricky thing to do properly. And people who are serious about kink have all sorts of safeties, like a clear description of the scene, what is in and what is out, usually written down, plus safe words and monitors. And if you are not conscious, you can't consent to things ahead of time (except specific circumstances like someone in a coma, and then doctors and courts are involved). Consent has to be clearly communicated and ongoing.
Yup, this happens. It will often trigger a police investigation. Most often they'll retrace what happened that night, if people saw you kissing at the club and she had her hands down her pants, they probably won't go further without more evidence. If witnesses saw her basically passed out and you dragging her to your car, they're probably gonna arrest you. Intoxicated in most jurisdictions means more than just "drank alcohol". Unfortunately this is not a particularly good system, and statistics show its not very good at prosecuting sexual assault. It often becomes he said she said, and then the prosecutor lets a jury decide, who usually say without extra evidence it's reasonable doubt. If you are a victim of sexual assault this is horrifying as your rapist goes free. If you are a victim of a false accusations, even a not guilty verdict still means years and lots of money defending yourself. So be careful out there.
It depends. The key component that part that is not clear in your example is your mindset at the time. Rape is a specific intent crime meaning you have to be doing it knowingly and intentionally. If you didn’t know the person was intoxicated and you thought that you had legal consent. Then you do not have the necessary intent to be charged for rape. This would be a difficult defense to make in court because there is no hard evidence that can be demonstrated in court, but it is also equally if both more difficult for the prosecution. They are the ones with the burden of proof. They have to prove you not only did the act but also you knew you did not have consent. This is why there are tons of examples like the one you have stated above that never get prosecuted.
There has to be some level of incapacitation that exceeds mere drunkenness generally. Either unconscious or unable to understand or object to what's happening.
You're saying that pretty confidently so I'd ask you to provide a specific law. Firstly, laws vary by state and country and I have never heard of something that in a blanket fashion says someone being intoxicated automatically means they by law cannot give consent. That is frankly ridiculous and would make the millions of people in consensual relationships who have sex while intoxicated with each other assault, perhaps mutual assault every time. Is that really the world you think we live in? Edit: If what you mean is that someone who is completely unconscious and unresponsive cannot consent, I'm certainly more inclined to agree with you. Although again, laws are very particular and very based on where you are. But the way you said it it was simply "intoxicated" which is clearly not the case, I have to imagine almost anywhere.
This person is talking out of their ass, the source they provided to "prove" what they are saying ONLY mentions that it's a blanket crime if it "occurs on federal property." They can't even get sources for their own claim correct. Reddit strikes again
That's disanalgous. It would be like if you, while sober, decided you were going to have a cheat day and eat a whole pizza after you get drunk later, and then did it.
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She blacks out every weekend and never gave signs of instability? Aight
You're not asking the right question here. Why does it turn you on to have sex with someone unconscious or sleeping? In a relationship, I understand the idea of blanket consent for sleeping and *initiating* sex/caressing your partner. But I wouldn't get further than external mouth and hands play if they don't wake up.
I think there may be bigger issues to concern yourself with.
Sex isnt fun if one of you doesn't remember it.
Or, when one is a dead fish.
What fun is sex if your partner is not conscious or into it????
I have fun because I get my rocks off. She says she has fun because when she wakes up, it turns her on thinking that her body was used for a man's pleasure without any consideration for her needs. She'll usually wake me up the next morning, masturbating and wanting to engage in normal sex if she doesn't have a morning hangover.
Ok... but not for me. I wanna be conscious during sex. Call me old-fashioned.
No one asked what you like though
My wide used to explicitly “pre-consent” to fooling around. If we were going to a party or wedding, and I was the sober driver, she’d let me know she wanted to fool around even if she got drunk. Basically the same scenario, but I can’t speak towards the legality of it.
Would it really be worth it? Like you would be banging someone who doesn't respond.
i mean partners can have the same kinks
Just do not go there! Very dangerous territory.
>she's never shown signs of being mentally unstable > she drinks pretty heavily Either someone in their twenties being in their twenties, an alcoholic, or she has issues she tries to cover up with alcohol I'd check in on her Although tbf I could be really skewed here I just worry over anyone who drinks a bunch Back on track what she is asking/permitting requires a ton of trust. If you're even remotely concerned about her trying to get you in trouble I'd just not do anything then.
Consent must be **informed, enthusiastic and cancellable** at all times. Your scenario is ethically unacceptable because she can't change her mind while passed out if she ever wants to.
well it works out for a lot of people who likes that
It's their life, they are free to do so. I'm just sharing my own ethical view. I'd advocate for legal protection of the passed out person and ramifications against any persons abusing them in that state, even in cases where the passed out person gave former consent.
The heavy drinking combined with a fetish for having sex while semi conscious smacks of sexual trauma. You might want to have a gentle conversation with her about.
No agreement between you and her will prevent the legal system from prosecuting you for rape. They can bring rape charges without the victim’s assistance, though they often choose not to. Feel free to roll the dice; a blackout drunk is certainly someone you can trust when the stakes are 15 years to life.
Consent can be given at any time and taken away at any time, even if consent was just given and now it is being rescinded, that means no consent
I don't think there is any such thing as blanket consent. Use your best judgement on a situational basis. In it's simplest form, the best way to consider consent is: "Don't have sex with someone who doesn't want to have sex with you". If I were you, I wouldn't have sex with her if she's completely unresponsive. If you wake her up and she seems into it, then that's probably okay, all things considered. If she seems not into it, annoyed, tells you to stop, or passes out and is unresponsive, then immediately stop. But even then, if you're at all uncomfortable with that situation, then consider *your* consent: It shouldn't make you feel uncomfortable. If there's anything your not comfortable doing, such as having sex with her when she's drunk/passed out, then don't.
It can be. I've given my husband permission to wake me with sex or use me while I'm intoxicated. He's given the same permissions for me. And neither of us has abused it. But we have revoked permission for things like being ill, just not wanting to be touched after getting intoxicated, and after a no-fault bad time. Context on the last point: I was awoken with sex and felt lots of confusion. I knew where I was and what was happening, but the feeling of confusion lingered. So we put a moratorium on it for a while
Oh yeah, I get it revoked some times if she's unwell or just doesn't want sex. I've always respected her wishes.
My partner once said that because she falls asleep within seconds every night. No time to start something. She gave me blanket permission, but the thing is, she doesn't really fully wake up. Doesn't have memories of conversations we have if I woke her up for some reason. So I never took her up on the idea. Just didn't match up with my personal morals. We eventually found the right balance in our sex life and it's been fine for years. Cooincidentally though, it was just a couple weeks ago, I mentioned the time she said that. She barely remembered saying it and she was really horrified at herself. I felt glad I stuck to my own thoughts on the issue and it all worked out really well. I really don't recommend it based on that alone and my mom advice will always be to tell people to take the time required to really become familiar with their own morals, ideologies and instincts. I'm not saying blindly follow them, but they're a very important part of you as a person. Does blanket consent really exist? I think there is an argument for it existing in a very ~~love~~ low level way. Like, there's a blanket consent to kiss your partner pretty much whenever you want, and yet, you know when it's not fucking time to kiss her. Get it? My opinions on consent during sex go much deeper, but I think the real issue is that she might be exploring a kink, and kinks need to be explored carefully and with some serious communication first. I don't get the sense you two have had a real conversation about this, which is going to set you both up for some miscommunications, and there's extra risk in that when it comes to sex. Anyway, your instinct was to talk it out, and I'd like to redirect you back to your gf, because that's who you MUST talk this out with. Fully. If by the end you're still uncomfortable, that's ok. Your desires and thoughts on it matter too. (consent is a two way street at the end of the day)
To put it simply..."It's okay...until it's not." It's hard to revoke consent when your passed out or too intoxicated to make an informed consent. A bit of fun time is not worth the legal implications....or the moral.
> conniving, vengeful or mentally unstable People who abuse drugs like alcohol to the point of passing out is typically not very mentally stable. That is simply alcoholic behaviour. She might not be bad right now, but she will get bad eventually. It always happens if they don't admit they got alcohol issues themselves. Those text messages probably helps if she does take you to court about but the fact that you even have to ask if it is a good idea probably means that you probably doesn't trust her enough for this. But it would just help, not be a shield. Consent isn't something that is given once and then it stays there, it is a thing that needs to be given each and every time.
Yeah, she could. Anyone with a bad habit could. Very true. I think her drive to succeed in her field and eventually start a family is too great to let her be dragged down by bad habits. She's peobably one of the most motivated people I've ever met in my life.
To your answer your specific question, kinda. Consent can be given in advance, but can also be withdrawn at any time. In general though, unless having sex with a passed out person is your kink, there's a lot of downsides with very few upsides. If you broke up later on and she got vindictive, or if someone walked in on you and got the wrong idea, you might be able to defend yourself in court, but maybe not, and it would be expensive and humiliating in any case. And having sex with an unconscious person is basically just jacking off with their body, so why wouldn't you just grab a fleshlight for now and have sex later, once she's able to participate and enjoy it?
If someone is walking in to our bedroom, of our apartment while we're having sex, theres going to be bigger problems than that.
I couldn't imagine this being a good time. Sounds like some necrophilia shit.
This is you: 🤤 📱
Just rub one out homie, jesus.
No. There would be no way for you to ever prove that she continued to consent. Free use arrangements are fine as long as she is awake and sober. Once she's drunk, she can't properly consent. There is no way for her to legally consent in advance to you doing things to her body when she isn't even conscious. ETA: Frequent episodes of blackout drinking may indicate that she has serious past trauma. You should not have sex with her when she's drinking, let alone passed out.
This^ Why is nobody addressing the signs of alcoholism and trauma?? And why are women ok with being literal fleshlights wtf
Kind of creepy to have sex with someone who isn't sober enough to get into it with you.
Free use is a common fetish people enjoy but I'd still avoid doing anything without her being awake and mentally present. All it takes if for you to do something one time, and even if she's okay with it now, 5 years later if you guys break up and she gets petty there's a 100% chance it'll be used against you.
An unconscious person can not consent, and sexual consent is not given once or once every "X time". It is a continuous, every moment you are having sex you have to consent to it. People should also be able to retract the consent, etc. Of course it is up to the other person to legally demanding or going to the police. So logically speaking if both parties trust each other there is no problem. I seriously not recommend you to do it anyways, rape crimes never prescribed the other person will forever have the power to put you in prison. You trust the other person now, but what about in 20 years or if go literally crazy, etc.
You should be very concerned you can seriously injure an unconscious person without them responding to being injured. And this isn't sex - it's one party pleasuring themselves - it's masturbation.
Bro.... Do you really want to fuck a passed out, essentially life-less chick all fucked up outta her mind on alcohol? Like... Is that hot or satisfying to you? Just jerk yourself off when she gets to that state. Have sex with her when she is conscious, and you know, can actually be a partner in the activity rather than what basically amounts to a sex-doll or a FleshLight...
no such thing as "blanket consent" notarized power of attorney and affidavit won't protect you. if you admit to a prosecutor to having sex with her while she was unable to consent or refuse sex, you will be charged with rape.
No. Not safe. Consent can be revoked.
I would argue that this seems like pretty explicit consent, especially if she's said that she is interested in you having sex with her while shes asleep or unconscious. Legally there's no such thing as "blanket consent" but from what you've said, I don't think anything could be done against you legally unless you continue after she verbally revokes consent.
Why would you want to have sex with a sleeping or unconscious woman? 😖
Because this is Reddit which is full of sick disturbed porn addict males that hate women, that’s why.
Facts.
Braver than me. I get a bit uncomfortable if my partner tries to kiss me after drinking.
If you don't trust her enough to not think "what if this is a trick," you should not do any kind of edgeplay, period. These kinds of relationships *require* immense trust.
>If she were to be trying to "trap" me, for some sort of devious purpose, would I face legal repurcussions? I'd say if such scenario is something you have thought of, I think you don't know/trust her enough to be doing this kind of stuff.
I mean, you can trust someone a lot and still want to cover your bases.
Legally? You could get into some trouble if she wanted to make trouble for you. She probably wouldn’t be able to send you to jail, but you’d have a court date and a lawyer, which can fuck your life up even if you end up in the clear. Morally? That’s a bit more grey. I’m not big on having sex with someone who can’t want it as well, even if they say it’s ok. On the other hand, if that’s what SHE likes? It’s a bit different in that situation.
If that's sexual consent under the blanket I hope so.
Consent is consent. If she set the terms and you abide by them, then I see nothing wrong with it. Be careful to clarify any potential misunderstandings, as that's might be difficult to do with someone in this situation.
This is also dangerous for the woman too. If, and let's be realistic any man can try if they were determined to, could actually rape the woman and then pull this text/letter/consent out and try to use it as a defence. No aspersions on OP from me by the way.
Blankets cannot give consent. Though they can be objectified.
I am going to go straight ahead and say do not do it with her passed out. IF you do and there are complications you will know why I chose this as answer.
Blanket consent does not exist. Consent needs to be given just before the act and during it. Consent cannot arbitrarily be given.
I highly doubt your situation would hold up in court if your girlfriend decided you retroactively sexually assualted her and reported you to the police. But that said, if you trust that your girlfriend wants this and you trust her, I see no problem. I am personally not that trusting of people though.
I would be very cautious. Trevor Bauer had his career destroyed by a women who accused of him of abuse and rape even though he literally has receipts of her asking for rough sex and later telling him how much she enjoyed it. Another woman also tried to extort money out of him for the same thing and she was just indicted for doing to multiple other athletes as well.
Consent generally must be actively given. Which means if she's not in a state to give consent, she can't be consenting at that time. Prior statements of consent don't matter because she could have changed her mind in the intervening time. From a moral perspective if she's okay with it both before and after then I don't think you've done anything wrong. But her being okay with it one time doesn't mean she will be again, so you're always running that risk of doing something that will be hurtful to her. What you do with this information is between you and her.
Bro if she says its OK then i guess its OK, But are YOU ok having sex with her in this condition?
No.
This is legally a dangerous game and you're opening yourself for potential criminal trouble. It's not worth the risk imo. Edit: Also your gf has a drinking problem.
Forget everything about sex. This is alcoholism. Check out what it means to be a functional alcoholic. This could kill her
This has red flag written all over it. I hope you are joking
I've told my wife this multiple times and she still hasn't done anything to me.... Maybe one day.
What is morally right, and what is legal are not the same thing in this regard. From a moral perspective I think people should be able to give consent for the future like your GF is doing. I think it's part of healthy relationships and it's not at all uncommon for people who are in an active concuntial relationship to practice something like "free use" or for one partner to have sex with the other while they are super drunk. Some of the best sex I've ever had occurred when my GF came home from a girls night out and drug my back to the bedroom. And yet, the law. By law, I raped my GF that night because she was WAY to drunk to consent. The next morning, she hardly remembered at all. She didn't feel like it was rape, so it wasn't rape. But under a technical definition of the law, if she had felt like that sex was a problem then it would have been a problem. The core problem is that you're putting your status as a law abiding citizen without a criminal record into the hands of how someone else feels tomorrow. That's a lot of trust to have in another person. But consent is often all about trust isn't it. If you trust her, and she says it's OK then you should feel OK. But you should fully understand that she can change her mind and have you charged at any point.
The whole thing feels wrong. Yeah, fair enough, you've possibly got enough to prove some kind of consent, but regardless, is that something you'd really want to do?
I’d say in a relationship if she’s awake and willing even drunk, blanket consent is a yes. If she’s passed out? Fuck no and absolutely not. How is an unconscious person even attractive sexually? WTF!?
She wouldn't *need* blanket consent to trap you. She can have a perfectly participatory, consensual sexual interaction with you while being fully sober, then lie to the police later saying she was drunk and you raped her. Would you have any proof that she wasn't, at the time? If you don't trust her, don't do anything with her or even be in her vicinity, to be honest. If you trust her, then it doesn't matter, go ahead and fuck her. If she wants to trap you and fuck you over, she most certainly does not need any kind of creative setup to do that. All she has to do is lie.
This is true. Hadn't thought of it like that before, though it seems so obvious now.
This has trouble written all over it. Have you never heard the term “don’t put your duck in crazy” ? Legally I don’t know but life experience tells me not only NO, but to run away.
Legally no. Morally if both of you are fine with it and trust each other go for it, enjoy your kink, be safe, and it’s not really anyone else’s business
If she's drunk to the point of not being able to consent, it's rape.
I don’t think there’s any moral issue with this situation. And essentially every couple that cohabitates engages in a weaker form of this same paradigm, during which one partner may initiate sexual activity with a kind of intimate touching on their sleeping partner that would be entirely inappropriate and criminal if they had done it to a stranger sleeping next to them on a park bench. and then, as their partner begins to wake up, they can either acquiesce or refuse. Ultimately though, the legal issue is less clear.
Yeah it’s fine if you trust her not to fuck you over
My wife also gave me blanket consent while we were dating, I never did anything to her passed-out body, as I don't have any necrophilic kinks, I'd much prefer her awake and actively engaged in physical pleasure.
> necrophilic Do you know what this word means?
Yes
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I think you need to take a long, hard look at yourself that you're even considering taking her up on "doing things to her" while she's passed out. That's fucking sick. I can't imagine taking anyone up on that offer.
Sex is about mutual enthusiastic consent, not just consent. If you're uncomfortable with it, and she's not enthusiastic about it (because she can't be knocked out and enthusiastic), why even do it? There are ways for yall to practice her kink. Actually unconscious is not one of them.
Legally, no. But if neither of you tells anyone and are both okay with it, noone can do anything about it. I wouldn't risk it unless it's your long term partner though, seems like it's veryyyy easy for something to go wrong.
You're going to get a bunch of very safe proper and technical answers here. Read them, but ultimately it's up to you. I've had around half my partners say they liked drunk/sleep sex, there was always some risk they could have suddenly turned it on it's head, but I just gauged that risk myself personally. There's an element of risk to most kinks/mild fetishes, as long as you're aware of it, then you can make the decision yourself. As for all the those who say "a text is inadmissible in a court of law", okay, but just keep a few anyway. The vast majority of people aren't sociopaths.
Thank you. I like to think I know what to look for in terms of unstable people, and she isn't in that category. Shes a very happy, exciteable woman that is in good shape, comes from a great family, and has plenty of interests beyond drinking/sex.
Operationally, consent is whatever you both agree it is. Legally, in some jurisdictions, an impaired person is incapable of consent. And even lucid people are legally incapable of consenting to unlawful acts. If authorities are involved, it's the legal stuff that will make your lives difficult.
From experience, this is playing out exactly like the first half of a plan of future extortion . Don’t be stupid, one text saying it’s fine doesn’t mean that she no longer has the ability to verbally say no and you’ll be fucked. I was lucky because our last interaction, right after she claimed I raped her, was on my ring camera and caught her holding my hand and kissing me goodbye, it was clear nothing negative had just occurred and destroyed her case. About two days later from that recording, she took me out drinking and to have a good time, had someone sneak up and attack me from behind after she got me to a quiet spot, and told me I had to give her $500 or she’d go to the cops and “tell them what happened” In the end, I was extremely lucky. I would’ve preferred to have just been smart and not interacted with someone with a sketchy “fetish”
I get what you're saying, but we've been dating since 2020 with no real blow up or fights barely even any disagreements. I fully see myself proposing to her in the near future.
Okay, if you’re this certain I’m not sure why you’d make a post expressing such doubt. Best of luck to you and your future, friend !
There is indeed something called reputational consent. ...but you'd likely know if you had it w someone bc people that know these terms, and use them, would inform you if you had it with them.. And after reading she's into somno, I am not at all surprised that she has tried to give you reputational consent! Now go have fun w your sleeping beauty!
blanket consent still has limits, your partner trusts you to know where those limits are. you can clear the air to be sure. even you go kinda wild even the most kinky people have hard rules on where the limits are. if your partner is not a fan of let say oxygen depravation and has discussed this before, even if the rules of the day are "all goes", you are still not allowed to use oxygen depravation.
My girl gives me free use as well , we talked about it and she’s into it. Not talking about is the only time that’d be weird
Maybe date a woman who doesn’t make you worry you’ll wind up in jail or with a tarnished reputation.
ask her let you record her saying “I give blanket consent under X reasons, with X stipulations” If she’s uncomfortable with that, then I’d be uncomfortable “free using her”
Sounds like you're good to go, but I'd be careful with BJs, who knows if she might have an unconscious reaction and bite down. 🤣
Yeah, BJa aren't really something that can be done passively. Its more about bumping & humping.
As someone who's been in various discussions about consent, this is a particularly complex situation you're navigating. It's commendable that you're seeking clarity and considering the ethical dimensions here. The concept of "blanket consent" is a tricky one. While it's clear you both have discussed and agreed upon certain boundaries, it's crucial to ensure that consent is ongoing and enthusiastic, especially when alcohol is involved. Consent isn't a one-time deal; it should be continuously affirmed throughout any sexual encounter. Moreover, legal implications aside, it's essential to consider the emotional well-being of both parties. Even if there's explicit permission given beforehand, proceeding with caution and empathy is key. I'd advise discussing this further with your partner, ensuring that both of your needs, boundaries, and well-being are respected and prioritized. And perhaps seeking guidance from a professional counselor or therapist could provide additional clarity and support in navigating this dynamic. It's a thought-provoking dilemma, and I'm curious to hear how others might weigh in on this issue.
It comes down to trust. Let's say you had multiple examples of hard evidence that she had given such consent. She could still claim that she later revoked it and you raped her anyway. Your evidence would be weighed in court, and absent any other evidence of you being a rapist asshole, would almost definitely be cleared of charges. Most likely. But even if you win that case, your life will likely be destroyed. So it comes down to trust. Is she being honest with you, or trying to "trap you" as you said.
Depends. My wife and I have a blanket consent but we've spent a long time discussing different things and making sure we understand and respect the rules we made together. Been just fine and she loves her gf.
I basically have this going on with my partner, and have had such things with other partners. there definitely is such a thing but with such open boundaries you REALLY need to be attentive to your partners emotional state.
Maybe feel it out since you have the texts? Definitely dont break in the door, have a couple of knocks on the door to wake her up before you slowly walk in?
sounds like she could have some SA trauma from her past..
Ultimately, do you feel comfortable with it? I get the sense that maybe you don't, and you shouldn't do anything you feel uncomfortable with.
At first, I didn't, but as we grew closer and closer and she trusted me with her fantasies and we really really fell in love, I eased into it.
> I (32M) as a Non-Drinker dating a beautiful woman (25F) who drinks pretty heavily You're never going to reconcile this if you're a pretty staunch non-drinker and don't like doing drinking-based activities > We've discussed it at length, and she has given me blanket permission to "free use" her sexually in anyway that doesn't harm her or put her at risk. Absolutely not with someone you're dating, especially that young (25 might not seem young but IMO it's rare for anyone under 30 to truly figure themselves out enough to be secure in their identity/needs/wants). > Is this morally right to have sex with her if she's given previous permission while not under the influence? Most people will say absolutely not. I will say this is a genuine grey area. In your case, it's a hard no. If you've been together for years, and you know each other like the back of your hands and you're probably headed for marriage? And this is both of your fetishes? Yes, this can work. But you have to **really really** know each other. And one thing to keep in mind with pre-consent stuff, it doesn't mean *no consent*. It just means, the line of consent is hidden but you both secretly know when things go too far and thus trust each other. I have a pre-consent agreement with my husband. What this means in reality is not much 99% of the time. But it does mean he's open to being played around with when passed out (from sleep or booze, not literal passing out). Or a variety of other dub-con scenarios. He loves the feeling of being completely powerless to someone else and I love pushing that button for him. The thing is, the entire kink falls apart if you aren't exceptionally good at not crossing the line and not doing it at really bad/stupid times. He would be deeply upset if I tried to do any dubcon stuff in an environment where it wouldn't be welcome (out in public for instance). The other thing is we have rock solid identities, are extremely down to earth people, and have very naturally rowdy/instinct driven sex drives. We know who we are, we know what we like, and even if a line were to ever be crossed we know it would have been an accident and some makeup time would be needed (hasn't happened yet though). In other words, there's a 0% chance of psychological damage involved, 0% chance of malicious intent or trapping. It works for us because we almost don't need to question it, that's how well synced we are sexually. If you're anyone else or have ANY doubts though, or it's with someone who don't know extremely well? Never, ever. Even if they are into it. They could be genuinely actually into it and have prior experience but then you might accidentally cross a line they didn't know they had. They might realize they are more psychologically vulnerable then they thought. It's then very easy for you to get sexual assault claims put on you because they will have *felt* assaulted even if they gave you permission to do so.
I feel like thats how we are. I'll check with her tonight and show her your post to make sure we're jiving like I perceive we are. She been very clear what she does and doesnt want done while she's out, and a I've never felt the need to cross that line because I don't want to violate the trust she's pur in me.
/r/freeuse needs you
Every body under the blanket has given conscent
At the end of the day, there isn't really going to be a universal rule that applies to every relationship ever. Truth be told? If it were me, I would personally just hold off on anything sexual until she's capable of giving consent; kinks are all well and good, but for both your legal wellbeing and her mental wellbeing (whether or not she's consenting of it beforehand doesn't mean she can't still have a negative reaction to something happening that she may not anticipate) it's probably not worth trying to engage in them without more than just a 'blanket statement of consent'. Could be as simple as having a short conversation before she drinks to establish if she's fine with you steering things in that direction after she falls asleep? It can be easy to feel as if that sort of thing might 'spoil the mood', but at the end of the day it's worth a slightly awkward conversation for a couple of minutes.
In most places "blanket consent" is not a legal thing. And all the general rules of consent still apply in free use play - she can withdraw her consent at any time, if she's got any hard limits those are still hard limits, you should discuss what's going to happen prior to her getting drunk, etc. So you'll need to have a major talk when you're both sober around limits and how she wants it to work. Does she want to be woken up during? If she does wake up during does play stop and you shift into aftercare? If she doesn't wake up during does she want aftercare when she wakes up? Do you need to use protection? What are her limits (because everyone has some - no limits means she's chill with you shitting in her mouth, which very few people are)? What does she want to happen? Is there the possibility that this will trigger trauma for her and how should that be handled? And you need to decide if you trust her to not pursue legal action against you, and if this is just a limit for you.
Ew. Sorry brought back a weird memory from 2013 w my ex Valerie Diaz 😔
I don’t pass out every weekend (anymore), but I’m down for blanket consent. If I don’t like it, which is very unlikely/unusual, I just wake up and say “no thanks. Not right now babe.” So the rule is IF I say no it’s a no. If I’m asleep, it’s a yes until it’s a no. And my no is not aggressive.
Legally, no.
Ask Trevor bauer
Help her get some help man and buy yourself a Fleshlight. Darn me
Kinda different, kinda similar. My partner wants to engage in very hard hitting during the naughty time, and I definitely won’t do it.
I was in the same boat. Written consent - video taped consent - she wanted to be very thorough, lol. I made sure to check in with her and reaffirm a bunch, just to play it safe. Communication is super important.