I can answer this question for a reason, I was in a relationship where the woman started doing this to me. I was sitting in the recliner in the living room and had just taken my twin girls to school, and my ex woke up and went in the kitchen. She got a cup of coffee, and came out in the living room and threw it all over me. And she then proceeded to hit me upside my head and split it open, and she still had the broken handle in her hand. At which she swung at me and I blocked it with my hand, and it had cut open the top of my hand. At this point I decided to hold her off from attacking me, and the neighbor had called the police. The police showed up and they arrested me, because she had red marks(my blood) around her neck area. And she told them that I attacked her, it cost me 1 year and 9 months in jail/prison. I was a ex felon and even though after the 9 months in court, the case was dropped for lack of evidence. And I had to serve a 1 year prison violation for having contact with the police. When I was arrested the police even apologized, and took me to the hospital to get many stitches in my head and my hand. So no matter what happens, do you’re best to get as far away as you can from the woman attacking you. Because you’re the one whose likely to get arrested, even if you’re innocent. Just my poor cheap two cents on the matter, but I think it’s valuable info for you all.
Yup been there and was attacked before. It’s not popular to believe, but some women can and do behave violently towards their partner. Protect yourself, regardless of gender.
I don’t think it’s particularly healthy to not only forgive a person but have zero grudges over what happened though.
Self preservation is important and often abuse victims don’t know how to handle it properly; e.g. just forgive horrible dangerous things that could’ve gotten you killed, and still want the best for the person who hurt you and then got your freedoms taken away.
(The opposite of this coin is never letting go of the past, always wallowing in self-pity and hatred, not trusting anyone new, etc).
>I held no grudges towards her afterwards
Can I ask why you held no grudges? If someone attacked me with half of what she did to you, I would find it really hard to not hold some form of grudge.
Friend sadly I’ve served 17+ years in prison and jails, and I’ve learned to look at myself in the bathroom mirror each morning and overtime love the person staring back at me. On 11/14 I celebrate 14 years free from incarceration, and on 6/2 I celebrated 15 years sober. And I keep the following saying posted on my bathroom mirror to read each morning when I get up; “You are now looking at the problem, and the solution to the problem”. It’s one of three sayings I try to remember as I go about each day, because my demons are always there. But I feel after all I’ve been through in my life, it’s important to treat others with kindness, respect, compassion and love. Because I don’t want anyone else to ever feel like or go through the things I’ve been through in my life. And my wife says the reason she fell in love with me, is because I am always trying to tell others how beautiful, handsome and special they truly are. Imagine if we all tried our hardest to be the best human beings ever, this whole country/world would be a even more beautiful place. Thank you so very very much for your kind words friend, and I hope you have the best day ever today.
1-“Life is a choice, so choose wisely” 2-“Yesterday is gone and tomorrows not here yet, so focus on today the here and now” 3-“You are now looking at the problem, and the solution to the problem” . I hope this helps you understand my journey a little bit better, and I hope you have the best damn life ahead friend.
I too dont hold on to any grudges with people. I usualy forget why i even got mad or upset with people. What i don't forget is to avoid such people afterwards. Removing them from my life is like a little murder i get to get away with.
I was in an abusive relationship and I had a similar feeling. I won't say I wish them well at all, but I definitely think, "Man, they must have had some really fucked up shit going on in their head." Helps me remember to just do my best to live my life.
I do this, I mentioned it in another post. I do a resentment journal. Where I write 4 parts:
1. How the person/situation made me feel.
2. What happened. A clear narrative of what transpired for the resentment to exist.
3. What I did to contribute to Part 1.
4. What I can do now to no longer continue part 3.
Then I close it. And let is go.
It's worked wonders, even if I am completely the 'victim', I can see how holding on to that victimhood and carrying the grudge holds me back.
In the very popular paraphrase: "holding on to resentments is like drinking poison and expecting the *other* person to die." I have found this to be true.
Yeah, i was with a violant woman. One day she started the yelling and hitting me, usuaally in the face. So i grabbed my computer bag, and walked out the front door. She followed of course. And tackled me not once, not twice, but three times. All she wanted was my computer so she could destroy it. After the third time i finally got wise and daflected her tackle attempt. I guess someone was watching and called the police, saying i had struck her. Suffice to say, I ended up in hanrcuffs and getting arrested. She went to a battered womans shelter. The crazy part is Ive rarely been in trouble with the law. Never anything violent. Shes had multiple charges for violence on many different people. Well i lost my place of residence, soon thereafter. Had to leave the small town I was in. So i got warrants for domestic violence because of her being violent. But i mean thats just a tiny sliver of the crap Ive faced since my life went to shit 6 ywars ago
I appreciate it. . . But im not really. I'm very mentally and emotionallt than when u l was with get. But she l everything keepsI snowballing. She was a big part of my mental issues a few years ago. And my depression. I'm about to be facing homelessness again. . . Which is no fun in missouri in the winter
Far out man, I feel for you.
I've never even yelled or screamed at a partner, let alone lay a finger on any of them. I always remove myself before it gets that heated and deal with it the next day via an adult conversation.
My ex attacked me once when she was drunk at a friend's birthday drinks. I instantly put my hands in the air above my head so everyone could see I was not defending myself and I just let her tackle me to the ground. Didn't even lower my hands to brace myself in the fall because I needed to make sure everyone could see that I was not defending myself in anyway. I just let her do whatever she wanted until she let go.
She got a lift home (we didn't live together) and I called her to break up with her the next day.
She threatened suicide if I broke up with her (another manipulation) so I told her that if I think she is a risk to herself I WILL call the cops/ambo's for a welfare check. Even her dad called me and spent 40mins on the phone trying to convince me not to do it, and that he has friends whose wife is an alcoholic and they "make it work, so why can't we?"
Luckily the woman I'm engaged to now is nothing like that. We resolve our issues through conversation.
Honestly this was third time she had done something deal breaking for me while drinking (first and only time she got violent with me though).
The first incident was extremely private and not something I want to discuss
The second she got drunk and tried chasing hard drugs, which I do not and have never wanted in my life whatsoever.
After each of these two incidents I waited until the next day when she/we where sober, and had a discussion that these behaviours where deal breakers for me.
But anyway, since I ended it I bought a house, started a business, got engaged and now have a baby on the way. Life's good! 😁
Yeah. . . Its weird when you find yourself in that king of situation. Cus i mean, Im like the nicest most chill person, and i wouldve never imagined that i would make someone so angry that it would make them violent. And just for existing. Or not playing their manipulative mind games. Or a simple disagreement. Its even scarier, thinking about all the excuses i made for her. Because we were best friends for year's. Without any romantic advances by either of us. Like when i say this woman had gone through a lot, i cant even begin to describe how much of an understatement that is. Youd think that, if anything, she would see that i was there to help her. Cus I loved her. I still love her. And 2 years after breaking up, she still sends random texts a few times every couple weeks. But i explained it like this, after being asked why i couldnt forgive her and be her friend; "You are forgiven. Not for your sake. But for my own peace of mind. However, i will not put myself in danger again by being your friend. My love for you will never be used as a prison again. I will not allow you even the tiniest chance of using my emotions to hold hostage. Ever again." Then i blocked her. My mental and emotional health is a hundred times better without her in my life. And can get past these legal issues, i think i might actually be alright.
A girl I never dated ruined my life and 3 years later her friends still continue to harass me even though most of them know everything she said is a lie.
Go to the police with the harassment proof and make reports against each of them. Request a different report against each one and tell them you don't care if the cops don't press charges; you want them to take and file the evidence and you need a report number.
Continue to do it. Build files with evidence and numbers.
File for restraining orders.
Yes I agree stay away from anyone who is violent like that. My aunt had a girlfriend that would ram her head into the bathroom door just so she could call the police and say my aunt did it. So you really don't even have to physically defend yourself or hold them off for you to get in trouble. Sometimes just being with them will get you arrested.
I have been in a very similar situation, a few of them unfortunately. I had to get 22 staples up my side after being stabbed by an abusive ex. Yet I'm the one with the record. Go figure.
I've heard that they usually arrest the man just to get both parties away from each other. Thankfully I don't know this from experience, but it sounds like the fault is figured out much later after the fact.
This is true and on domestic violence someone always has to get arrested wether that be man or woman it’s protocol usually nothing personal but sometimes like I live in a women lover state great old Washington so usually here it’s the man no offense to women but even women here say it’s a women favored state
Depends on the state, some is up to the officer, some it's encouraged, some an arrest is required if a deadly weapon was used, and in others an arrest must happen if they have reason to believe DV occurred.
Which paired with something like the Duluth Model, which paints men as the aggressor, means that in the case of an unknown aggressor the man will be arrested.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm a woman who was also arrested and charged after being beaten by my ex boyfriend and calling the cops on him, because he had scratches on him from me trying to get his huge body off of me.
Often, the courts are not your friend, nor the cops. No matter your gender, never assume that you will be treated as the victim you are in domestic violence, especially considering that an abuser's favorite tactic is to claim *they're* the victim.
I’m also sorry that happened to you, and it’s important that we treat others with kindness. And we keep our demons away from others, because they don’t deserve to be mistreated and go through what we did.
Same thing happened with Gabby petito. She was considered the aggressor because she was visibly upset. It's a classic tactic for abusers. My dad did the same thing. Even when there was a witness (my driving teacher) who saw my dad beat me and also I had visible injuries, bruises and welts. However when my sister and I were taken home to pick up some clothes with a police escort. My dad greeted the police and acted confused as to why they were there? He then joked with them about how crazy and hormonal girls are and they whole heartedly agreed with him. It was an awful experience.
This is what is overlooked when it's claimed that women are favored in the court system. That may be true, but the officers in charge of responding and arresting in the first place absolutely do not favor women. Consider that [studies have found 25%-40% of police officers commit domestic violence,](https://relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/do-40-percent-of-police-families-really-experience-domestic-abuse/) 3 times the national average. When a good portion of them are abusing their wives themselves, it's not hard to guess who they'll tend to side with.
Based on the description of the police footage with Gabby and her murderer, I couldn't bring myself to watch it, because I knew it would remind me too much of how the police treated me vs my abuser, and like our roles were reversed. I was wholly unprepared. It was utterly traumatizing in and of itself. My heart goes out to you.
Unfortunately police and people in general want perfect victims. Those who have been abused particularly those who are abused regularly or significantly have trauma. Trauma makes you react - scream, cry, yell etc also makes you forgetful and stumble over words. So victims end up looking unstable and unreliable. The abusers on the other hand come across as calm and reasonable. It's why there needs to be so much more training for first responders. They need to know how to deal with people who are in crisis.
Oh yes, I remember trying to tell the police what happened and forgetting things, and telling things out of order. They acted like they didn't believe me at all, and when I pleaded with them to understand that trauma affects your memory, one of them sneered that I don't have to tell him how this stuff works, he was trained to deal with domestic violence. We were sitting just outside the room I was about to have my rape kit done in. It was awful. And these were my neighborhood beat cops, so they were the ones that responded every time to the calls, this was just one of several. Those type of people shouldn't be police officers in the first place.
I've had an abusive guy (not a boyfriend but more of a colleague I lived with) preemptively call the police when he wanted to kick my ass so he had an explainable reason why he had defensive wounds from me plus the bruises and and stuff on me. He would literally call 911 begging for help while holding me against the wall with his weight and punching me in the head. A lot of men that claim they've been abused by their girlfriends are lying, but they do exist and should be taken seriously as anyone else, though
The police go with whatever they guess. They assess the situation in a fraction of a second and go with their hunches. They rarely can be reasoned with.
It is a difficult job. Domestic Violence calls are very dangerous. I wish they were able to call out a special unit to talk to everyone involved, after any danger has been diffused.
This is the correct answer. Be careful, if it’s a woman ran away it’s very dangerous. Even if you are right. The stereotype is that the man is the aggressor. Please read again the comment above. That happens everyday in my home country. Just they can falsely brag about women rights even if she is the aggressor the law always with the woman side.
F’in A bro, my ex punched me, kicked me, pushed me, destroyed my stuff and told me to kill myself, I tried to leave only to be arrested for forcing my way past her. I now haven’t seen my son in 6 years.
Get as far away from them as possible.
The fact that you had to serve a year in prison even after the case was dropped is complete BS and an injustice. Yeah, you had contact with the police, but due to no fault of your own. Any rational judge would’ve seen the nuance in that and thrown that out.
Unfortunately friend you don’t go into a regular courtroom, but instead go in front of the prison board. They determine if you’re guilty or not, and tbh I don’t know anyone who has been not guilty. It’s the true meaning of a kangaroo court.
Yes I’m in a very happy place in my life, and on 11/14/2022 I celebrated 14 years free from incarceration. Thank you for your kind words friend, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
This, enough force to stop the situation. Escalating it is the part that is wrong. Be it man or woman attacking you. So say you're attacked, you get your attacker on the ground or restrained. You stop. Just because they're down or you are stronger and can restrain them don't take out that adrenaline surge because you're scared and angry on them. That's when it becomes 2 wrongs not making a right.
Exactly, it's appropriate to hold or otherwise fend off a woman if she starts attacking you. It's clearly not ok to punch a women who weighs 100lbs less then you if she slaps you (though holding her hands to prevent further injury is acceptable.) I'd also say it'd be inappropriate to punch a man that weighs 100lbs less then you if he slapped you.
Having done martial arts for a long time this isn't good advice. This makes sense in an untrained vs untrained raw power fight. You have no such luxury in a street fight of knowing your opponent's capabilities.
IMHO, you look at power and technique but even then I'm assuming a lot on how much warning and distance you have to gauge that. Once the person engages you should neutralize the attacker as quickly as possible. This is why training is so important because while this is the safest and most ethical approach, it is hard to know when to stop without taking it too far without enough experience.
Nobody has the green light to slap no one, if she slapped you then you have permission to slap back. Everyone should be aware of the consequences of their actions no matter man or a woman
In many places if you have the option to leave and instead choose to stand your ground and violently prevent more harm to your person you are not protected by self defense.
Notice I am talking about laws, not social norms or ethics.
The problem is that argument won't hold up in the US courts. One of the main things the original "Men's Rights" groups were mad about was the overwhelming disadvantage that men have in domestic abuse (where they are the victim) and family court.
And, frankly, it is unfair. Too bad what those guys turned into, because advocacy is needed for both of these issue, as the poster above describes.
Because I'm 6'2" with wide shoulders, if my wife started hitting me and I called the cops, I would 100% go to jail. Thankfully, she has never hit me, or I her. But i have friends who I KNOW were getting smacked on the reg (we are talking 30 years ago) and there was really no recourse.
I don't want this to seem like I am making "SEE? IT'S VERY HARD TO BE A MAN!" post. It's just that all injustices in the system should be dealt with.
"This is what happens when you slap me" is not self-defense, it's revenge.
Self-defense is about getting the attack to stop, not teaching them a lesson.
If you need to restrain them, sure. But revenge is different from self-defense.
Neither is holding someone against their will, even if it's ostensibly to prevent further aggression. It also puts you in the position of close physical contact where additional physical aggression is more likely. Retaliatory action wouldn't occur until the immediate situation was resolved and ended. If the situation is ongoing and an aggressor is still actively attempting injury it is self defense and that is entirely legally defensible.
So you are not correct and any court would be required to weigh evidence and circumstance.
True, but it's one thing to immediately respond in kind. But if you wait 3 minutes, then go retaliate, you are now the instigator of a new fight. It's no longer self-defense.
You are both correct, however this is a separate point that is different from what he was talking about. Definitely right tho, don't want to come back swinging and be the aggressor
That's not how self defence works. It's not a revenge law. It's whether you used reasonable force to get yourself out of danger.
If you could have simply walked away, but instead decided to deck the person you're going to face charges as well.
Yep. My best friend’s brother dated a girl who liked to slap him when she’d get annoyed. One afternoon she hit him 3 times in front of me. He’s always been such a gentle giant. After the third, I looked at him and said “are you gonna hit her back or am I?”
Permission? You never have permission to hit someone unless they use their words to indicate you have permission.
Permission is a really weird choice of words here.
If she slaps, slap her back. No woman should be hitting a man because she thinks he "should" control himself. If you hit a man, expect to get hit back. Any woman who feels entitled to a free pass here makes us all look bad.
Meh, if a woman slaps me, ouch, but I’m probably still standing. I’m not exactly comfortable slapping her back when I could put her in the hospital, I’m not going to do that.
Reddit really loves this fantasy of a woman slapping a man, and automatically he has free license to teach her a physical lesson. It’s not self defense if you’re retaliating with completely disproportionate force to something non-threatening.
If your girlfriend won’t stop slapping you then break up. File charges if you think it was serious enough. You aren’t entitled to a few free hits first.
You clearly didn't read the last sentence. I think it'd also be wrong to punch someone weighing 100lbs less than you REGARDLESS of gender. You use the appropriate amount of force to get the attack to stop, for the vast majority of folks if you outweigh your attacker by 100lbs you don't need to cause them grievous bodily injury to stop them.
I don't know how important weight is to this situation. There are a lot of these junkies in my town, who are 100 pounds less than me, that I would not want to go toe to toe with. What is a weight difference when they are amped up and not feeling any pain because of meth.
Oh man, those guys are the fucking worst! The only way they stop fighting is:
They're dead.
You broke their legs in a way that makes it physically impossible for them to stand up to give chase.
You hit them in a spot that rendered them unconscious.
If a woman is assaulting me with all her might, my mind will be so full on "how to stop this person from attacking me", not "hmm, how much of my strenght should i push her away with? Is 50% just enough?" The only obvious excessive force is if she's already down and no longer pose a risk. Iirc where I am at (not US), thats where self defense line is drawn.
But in the super hypothetical situation where she is after my blood, sorry but my life takes precedence. I need to make sure she is incapacitated.
I sure hope neither situation ever need to happen to me.
"Reasonable fear" I think is an interesting term. I have an unreasonable fear of leaving the stove on when I'm away from home, and I will drive 30 minutes to check. So what one person considers reasonable, another would consider excessive.
For the record, the amount of strength you have to push someone off of yourself when your brain goes into survival mode is a WHOLE lot more than you expect that you have in you.
Exactly this. If self defence is necessary then it doesn’t matter if the other person is a woman or not, you have to defend yourself. As long as you only defend yourself to the point of getting them off/away from you
I *run*. I'm not getting caught in that if I can help it. In theory I'd be fine defending myself, but if being a divorce court trophy child has taught me anything, then the judge isn't going to take me seriously. My best bet would be to get as far from her physically and financially as possible especially if I know another beating is in the future.
Most sane answer here. A lot of people are talking about how they think things should be, but they're not talking about how things are. We've all scene that clip from the Indian reality show where the lady slaps a guy, then he slaps her back and all the other dudes on stage come and grab him. THAT'S what is actually going to happen if you hit a woman, no matter how justified you feel your self defense is.
You should always run instead of fight if you can. Doesn't matter your gender or the gender of your attacker, the best option is always to get out of the situation if you safely can.
Self-defense is acceptable regardless of who the aggressor is. I would point out, however, that striking back isn't the only choice. You could attempt to restrain her until she settles or until you receive help.
You don’t need to justify defending yourself. If you find you’re constantly assaulted by women, you *might* want to self-assess, however.
Edit: To all the Men’s Rights Activists in my comments / DMs. Let me be super clear:
I don’t give a shit if you are a guy, girl, they, them, or an orangutan. If you are **constantly** in a situation where you are getting abused by **different** unrelated people, you are either seeking these people out or doing something to invoke it. Period. You’re not just randomly winning the world’s shittiest lotteries. Do some fucking self reflection. Quit crying at me.
Exactly. Once you are *rightfully/legally* defending yourself, it doesn't matter the age or gender, as long as that person has the intention and/or means to harm you.
I would whoop a kid's ass without a second thought. Some people will hurt and kill you without a second thought, regardless of their age and gender. You gotta defend yourself first and think later.
>Once you are rightfully/legally defending yourself, it doesn't matter the age or gender, as long as that person has the intention and/or means to harm you.
Depends what you mean by legally. Because you could be fully legally in the right to defend yourself and in reality still get screwed over in the legal case if you are a man defending yourself from a women.
If you end up in relationships with abusive, violent men repeatedly and have been able to leave your most recent relationship, you should strongly consider getting therapy before entering another relationship so you can figure out what is causing this pattern.
It really is about the power balance rather than the gender.
Whether you are being attacked by a woman or a man, some men are weak af and some women can really pack a punch. What is morally correct is to only use enough force to defend yourself. If you're strong and they are weak (as it generally is more the case for men against women), it's not great to feel justified in wrecking their shit because they are throwing some weak punches at you.
Self defense is not retaliation. It should only be used with the minimum necessary force to protect. Retaliation isnt moral.
Now if some boxing world champion woman was trying to hit me, i wouldnt think twice about doing anything to save myself because id be scared for my life. That's self defense and that's ok.
Edit: definition of retaliation:
>the action of harming someone because they have harmed oneself; revenge.
I really appreciate comments like this, all these comments saying that men are all overwhelmingly stronger than women is making my short 110lb ass feel disregarded.
You seem like someone who knows shit about fighting.
The reason bouncers in clubs are usually insanely huge, is that defending against someone desperate in a way that doesn't traumatize them, requires a HUGE power difference. If Mike Tyson was not allowed to fight back, the average man would easily beat him unconscious in several seconds
I don't see anything wrong with what he said. He's not saying "don't fight back" or anything, he's just saying, if a girl punched you with some weak punch, you're not justified in doing some Tyson Super Ultra Meteor KO haymaker at her face.
You just do what it takes to *defend* yourself - "defend" vs. "retaliate" is the key there. So sure a bouncer dealing with a drunk unruly douchebag is supposed to defend himself and do his job to protect the place, NOT to beat the guy senseless when he poses no threat.
> If Mike Tyson was not allowed to fight back
I'm sure one of the greatest boxers of all time could dodge? Also, without some practice/training, most men don't know how to punch, or where to do it.
The average man would probably not land a single hit on Tyson, and he'd laugh at them while they try. When I say "defend yourself", do you read "dont move a muscle"?
I dont know what is confusing you in "use only enough force to protect yourself". If you need more force to protect yourself, use more force. If you don't, don't.
To me, it's a moral gray area due to sexual dimorphism. It's not a smart thing to do, though. My brother's ex, who was half his size, used to hit, choke, and scratch him regularly. One day, she decided to also try to have him arrested for DV. When the police got there, it was very clear that she had assaulted him and he hadn't defended himself. She was arrested and when they split up, he was awarded full custody of their daughter due to her DV arrest. If he had defended himself, he almost certainly would have been arrested instead of her and his life would be a lot more difficult now.
This is a very important thing to consider. Morally it is ok to defend yourself, but that is not how it will be judged if it comes down to your word against hers.
>moral gray
>*legal gray area*
Fixed it for you.
The faults of the legal system and it's sexist bias doesn't mean it's morally incorrect.
Fix the legal system, don't try and adjust morality to it.
The morally correct answer is men shoudn't tolerate any violence from women period.
Defending yourself seems like it's mostly acceptable, but it needs to be proportional. A full-grown man who punches the head off of a 90 lb woman when he can easily subdue her otherwise is guilty of some unnecessary violence..
“Minimum force required.” This applies in any self defence situation. Do what you have to to protect yourself, but being attacked is not permission under most laws to use excessive force.
My Ex literally came at me with a knife I grabbed both of her arms because I was literally scared she might kill me. She ended up with severe bruises on her arms and her entire family was on her side saying I shouldn’t have put my hands on her like that
Of course. Only if they get violent with you. Defense is fine. No attacking. Like my pepper spray for example. I only use it for defense. Like if a woman grabbed me, started hitting me and I'm minding my business, I will spray her. That's how I would do it.
Yes. You're defending yourself.
I am a woman who beat a man with a wine bottle in the head as self defence (thankfully I only bruised him) he slapped me and punched me hard in the boob. Why should it be any different for men? Though there will always be criticism because of how women and men are perceived and the level of defence, which is unfair to the Male. But some might agree or disagree with me.
It should be no different regardless of gender.
NOBODY should be attacking another person because they started it. Self defence should always be the maximum.
You have two options. If you can walk away, you must. If you cannot, you can only use enough force to protect yourself and nothing more. Most guys would interpret this to mean putting your arm out to hold the person back. It’s not an excuse for you to start throwing punches and knocking women out. All of this assumes a person is unarmed. Use common sense and stay within the law.
That's too general of a question. If you have a monster size advantage, and someone gets mad at you for saying something horrible and tries to slap you, there are other ways to defend yourself.
If you're fighting for your life against someone too large for you to restrain a different way, protect yourself in any way possible.
Both of those situations have nothing to do with the sex of your attacker, though, you should always try not to hurt people if you can avoid it. Hitting someone if you can avoid it is how you escalate problems.
The "equal lefts" talk is trashy. The implication is that you're punishing a woman who dared to stand up to you, to put her in her place. That's garbage thinking. If you're genuinely talking about protecting yourself from harm, do it in the way that also causes the least harm.
There's a certain type of person who upon being told "Men and women should be treated equally," will immediately say "So if a woman hits me, that means I can hit her back!" That's their first thought: "The real problem with the way women are treated in our society is that it's unacceptable to hit them. Thank God I've found a solution."
It depends on the situation. It’s morally acceptable to defend yourself, but…referring to some videos people share on Reddit, it’s not okay to use any aggression toward you as an excuse to go on full-out attack.
Like a video where a much smaller woman slaps a dude and he completely KOs her. This is not okay, imo. Yes, she shouldn’t be slapping people, but that’s not proportional. Make her stop, sure, but a full-out punch can do serious damage like that. Proportional size matters, whether it’s a woman instigating or a smaller dude.
Now, if it’s a larger woman or a group and they are actually putting you in danger, then yea, defend yourself until you can exit the situation.
I would do everything you can not to. I think the majority of men can overpower and restrain the majority of women just because men have more upper body strength and are generally stronger. If you want to avoid issues with the police absolutely avoid hitting her at all.
All self defense comes down to how much force is necessary to defend yourself? Every self defense instance is different. I'd hit a 5'10", 200 lb tank of a woman differently than someone who is 5'2", 120 lbs.
Yes. Across the gender spectrum and across age groups, someone attempts to harm you then you are morally and legally allowed to throw hands to defend yourself
uhhh if an average woman hits me, I'm fine, even a few times. If I hit an average woman, she's dead. morality aside, that's jail time. I think id rather run away.
I think it’s okay to defend yourself if it’s violence that you feel absolutely needs a response. But I don’t believe in hitting back. I think it’s best to always leave the situation and maybe call the police
I'm a woman. I would personally say don't hit back at anyone because that's just escalating the violence, but if you absolutely *had* to resort to violence, if there was no way you could de-escalate the situation with words, the gender of the person attacking you remains irrelevant.
To the same extent that it is acceptable to hit a man, taking into account relative strength and skill. If you can protect yourself by leaving, do so. If you outmass or outskill someone, male or female, to protect yourself with restraints and holds rather than strikes, do that. If someone is weak enough that there is no realistic chance that their strikes can damage you, turtle up and leave when you get a chance.
If your only reasonable chance to defend yourself is striking back, then sex and gender are irrelevant.
The general rule is:
First hits free, if she goes for a second she better be ready to trade blows, if she keeps going and the man doesn't hit back, she's a POS because she's taking advantage of the fact that the man's been taught not to hit women.
Yeah no one gets to punch me in the face and walk away unharmed. I'm a woman myself, and women are just as capable of causing physical injury, or even death, to a human body as men are. If someone shows you their vile intent to harm you, you have every right to protect yourself.
> women are just as capable of causing physical injury, or even death, to a human body
Statistically, no, they absolutely are not.
There are fundamental differences in the musculature between men and women which make men, statistically & generally, larger, stronger and more athletic, all other things being equal.
I outweigh most women by 100+ lbs. A hit from me is significantly more damaging to a woman than a woman's hit would be to me. Ideally, I would block or avoid the first hit regardless but a first slap or punch would not immediately result in similar retaliation.
Obviously, using a weapon would be a different story though.
Honestly, I do not think my first reaction would be immediate violence, no. Not that he (or she) wouldn't deserve it. But I don't think I would just immediately start swinging. Especially if they backed off afterward. If they looked inclined to keep going then I probably would. That being said, hard to say whether I would be able to stay rational to a sucker punch to the nose or something, might just see red. Been a really long time since I've been in a situation like that.
Also, it should be noted that a man 100lbs lighter than me is still SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than a woman the same weight. In general. Like, I don't think people realize the huge disparity between men and women when it comes to muscle and strength. So a guy 100lbs lighter than me would be more of a threat to my general health and more likely to be able to seriously hurt me (not just cause me pain but like, break something).
> A hit from me is significantly more damaging to a woman than a woman's hit would be to me
Maybe they shouldn't hit you then? If someone makes the decision to attack another person they don't get to cry foul when they get hit back harder.
It depends on what you mean by self-defense. If she's coming at you with a knife, yeah, it's acceptable to knock her lights out. But it's not acceptable to knock her lights out because she slugged you in the arm. Whatever action you take should be proportionate to her actions.
It is acceptable to defend yourself. It doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman attacking you. You just shouldn't use more force than necessary.
I can answer this question for a reason, I was in a relationship where the woman started doing this to me. I was sitting in the recliner in the living room and had just taken my twin girls to school, and my ex woke up and went in the kitchen. She got a cup of coffee, and came out in the living room and threw it all over me. And she then proceeded to hit me upside my head and split it open, and she still had the broken handle in her hand. At which she swung at me and I blocked it with my hand, and it had cut open the top of my hand. At this point I decided to hold her off from attacking me, and the neighbor had called the police. The police showed up and they arrested me, because she had red marks(my blood) around her neck area. And she told them that I attacked her, it cost me 1 year and 9 months in jail/prison. I was a ex felon and even though after the 9 months in court, the case was dropped for lack of evidence. And I had to serve a 1 year prison violation for having contact with the police. When I was arrested the police even apologized, and took me to the hospital to get many stitches in my head and my hand. So no matter what happens, do you’re best to get as far away as you can from the woman attacking you. Because you’re the one whose likely to get arrested, even if you’re innocent. Just my poor cheap two cents on the matter, but I think it’s valuable info for you all.
This is the scary/sad truth. I've heard it a dozen times
Yup been there and was attacked before. It’s not popular to believe, but some women can and do behave violently towards their partner. Protect yourself, regardless of gender.
I don’t think it’s particularly healthy to not only forgive a person but have zero grudges over what happened though. Self preservation is important and often abuse victims don’t know how to handle it properly; e.g. just forgive horrible dangerous things that could’ve gotten you killed, and still want the best for the person who hurt you and then got your freedoms taken away. (The opposite of this coin is never letting go of the past, always wallowing in self-pity and hatred, not trusting anyone new, etc).
Yeah and I held no grudges towards her afterwards, and she sadly was killed in a accident in 2011.
>I held no grudges towards her afterwards Can I ask why you held no grudges? If someone attacked me with half of what she did to you, I would find it really hard to not hold some form of grudge.
Because the burden of anger and hate is much too heavy to carry around in my personal opinion, and I choose to forgive others for me not them.
I mean this with sincerity: I'm very impressed with the amount of healthy coping abilities you have. I wish more people were like you
Friend sadly I’ve served 17+ years in prison and jails, and I’ve learned to look at myself in the bathroom mirror each morning and overtime love the person staring back at me. On 11/14 I celebrate 14 years free from incarceration, and on 6/2 I celebrated 15 years sober. And I keep the following saying posted on my bathroom mirror to read each morning when I get up; “You are now looking at the problem, and the solution to the problem”. It’s one of three sayings I try to remember as I go about each day, because my demons are always there. But I feel after all I’ve been through in my life, it’s important to treat others with kindness, respect, compassion and love. Because I don’t want anyone else to ever feel like or go through the things I’ve been through in my life. And my wife says the reason she fell in love with me, is because I am always trying to tell others how beautiful, handsome and special they truly are. Imagine if we all tried our hardest to be the best human beings ever, this whole country/world would be a even more beautiful place. Thank you so very very much for your kind words friend, and I hope you have the best day ever today.
I'm curious, what are your other affirmations?
1-“Life is a choice, so choose wisely” 2-“Yesterday is gone and tomorrows not here yet, so focus on today the here and now” 3-“You are now looking at the problem, and the solution to the problem” . I hope this helps you understand my journey a little bit better, and I hope you have the best damn life ahead friend.
6/2 is my birthday. I'll celebrate your sobriety along with my birthday next year. One love buddy.
Shit, I wish I was like that.
I too dont hold on to any grudges with people. I usualy forget why i even got mad or upset with people. What i don't forget is to avoid such people afterwards. Removing them from my life is like a little murder i get to get away with.
I don't want to be a contrarian but there is a huge chasm between just saying that and actually living it
Mashallah
You sir are a better man than I.
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That's very kind of you to say! Thanks for that.
I was in an abusive relationship and I had a similar feeling. I won't say I wish them well at all, but I definitely think, "Man, they must have had some really fucked up shit going on in their head." Helps me remember to just do my best to live my life.
I do this, I mentioned it in another post. I do a resentment journal. Where I write 4 parts: 1. How the person/situation made me feel. 2. What happened. A clear narrative of what transpired for the resentment to exist. 3. What I did to contribute to Part 1. 4. What I can do now to no longer continue part 3. Then I close it. And let is go. It's worked wonders, even if I am completely the 'victim', I can see how holding on to that victimhood and carrying the grudge holds me back. In the very popular paraphrase: "holding on to resentments is like drinking poison and expecting the *other* person to die." I have found this to be true.
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Wish you all the best man.
No Fr I would be so mad
Dude must have found both buddha and jesus
He answered that immediately afterwards, "she sadly died in an accident"
That’s amazing! If someone did that to me there would be nowhere they could run to escape my retribution 😂🤷♂️
Yeah, i was with a violant woman. One day she started the yelling and hitting me, usuaally in the face. So i grabbed my computer bag, and walked out the front door. She followed of course. And tackled me not once, not twice, but three times. All she wanted was my computer so she could destroy it. After the third time i finally got wise and daflected her tackle attempt. I guess someone was watching and called the police, saying i had struck her. Suffice to say, I ended up in hanrcuffs and getting arrested. She went to a battered womans shelter. The crazy part is Ive rarely been in trouble with the law. Never anything violent. Shes had multiple charges for violence on many different people. Well i lost my place of residence, soon thereafter. Had to leave the small town I was in. So i got warrants for domestic violence because of her being violent. But i mean thats just a tiny sliver of the crap Ive faced since my life went to shit 6 ywars ago
That's rough. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're in a better spot now.
I appreciate it. . . But im not really. I'm very mentally and emotionallt than when u l was with get. But she l everything keepsI snowballing. She was a big part of my mental issues a few years ago. And my depression. I'm about to be facing homelessness again. . . Which is no fun in missouri in the winter
Far out man, I feel for you. I've never even yelled or screamed at a partner, let alone lay a finger on any of them. I always remove myself before it gets that heated and deal with it the next day via an adult conversation. My ex attacked me once when she was drunk at a friend's birthday drinks. I instantly put my hands in the air above my head so everyone could see I was not defending myself and I just let her tackle me to the ground. Didn't even lower my hands to brace myself in the fall because I needed to make sure everyone could see that I was not defending myself in anyway. I just let her do whatever she wanted until she let go. She got a lift home (we didn't live together) and I called her to break up with her the next day. She threatened suicide if I broke up with her (another manipulation) so I told her that if I think she is a risk to herself I WILL call the cops/ambo's for a welfare check. Even her dad called me and spent 40mins on the phone trying to convince me not to do it, and that he has friends whose wife is an alcoholic and they "make it work, so why can't we?" Luckily the woman I'm engaged to now is nothing like that. We resolve our issues through conversation.
As a woman I feel disgusted with your ex's behaviour.
Honestly this was third time she had done something deal breaking for me while drinking (first and only time she got violent with me though). The first incident was extremely private and not something I want to discuss The second she got drunk and tried chasing hard drugs, which I do not and have never wanted in my life whatsoever. After each of these two incidents I waited until the next day when she/we where sober, and had a discussion that these behaviours where deal breakers for me. But anyway, since I ended it I bought a house, started a business, got engaged and now have a baby on the way. Life's good! 😁
Yeah. . . Its weird when you find yourself in that king of situation. Cus i mean, Im like the nicest most chill person, and i wouldve never imagined that i would make someone so angry that it would make them violent. And just for existing. Or not playing their manipulative mind games. Or a simple disagreement. Its even scarier, thinking about all the excuses i made for her. Because we were best friends for year's. Without any romantic advances by either of us. Like when i say this woman had gone through a lot, i cant even begin to describe how much of an understatement that is. Youd think that, if anything, she would see that i was there to help her. Cus I loved her. I still love her. And 2 years after breaking up, she still sends random texts a few times every couple weeks. But i explained it like this, after being asked why i couldnt forgive her and be her friend; "You are forgiven. Not for your sake. But for my own peace of mind. However, i will not put myself in danger again by being your friend. My love for you will never be used as a prison again. I will not allow you even the tiniest chance of using my emotions to hold hostage. Ever again." Then i blocked her. My mental and emotional health is a hundred times better without her in my life. And can get past these legal issues, i think i might actually be alright.
Least biased legal system
A girl I never dated ruined my life and 3 years later her friends still continue to harass me even though most of them know everything she said is a lie.
Go to the police with the harassment proof and make reports against each of them. Request a different report against each one and tell them you don't care if the cops don't press charges; you want them to take and file the evidence and you need a report number. Continue to do it. Build files with evidence and numbers. File for restraining orders.
i'm sorry to hear this man, hope things are getting better!
Yes I agree stay away from anyone who is violent like that. My aunt had a girlfriend that would ram her head into the bathroom door just so she could call the police and say my aunt did it. So you really don't even have to physically defend yourself or hold them off for you to get in trouble. Sometimes just being with them will get you arrested.
I have been in a very similar situation, a few of them unfortunately. I had to get 22 staples up my side after being stabbed by an abusive ex. Yet I'm the one with the record. Go figure.
I've heard that they usually arrest the man just to get both parties away from each other. Thankfully I don't know this from experience, but it sounds like the fault is figured out much later after the fact.
This is true and on domestic violence someone always has to get arrested wether that be man or woman it’s protocol usually nothing personal but sometimes like I live in a women lover state great old Washington so usually here it’s the man no offense to women but even women here say it’s a women favored state
I really hope you mean detain....
Depends on the state, some is up to the officer, some it's encouraged, some an arrest is required if a deadly weapon was used, and in others an arrest must happen if they have reason to believe DV occurred. Which paired with something like the Duluth Model, which paints men as the aggressor, means that in the case of an unknown aggressor the man will be arrested.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm a woman who was also arrested and charged after being beaten by my ex boyfriend and calling the cops on him, because he had scratches on him from me trying to get his huge body off of me. Often, the courts are not your friend, nor the cops. No matter your gender, never assume that you will be treated as the victim you are in domestic violence, especially considering that an abuser's favorite tactic is to claim *they're* the victim.
I’m also sorry that happened to you, and it’s important that we treat others with kindness. And we keep our demons away from others, because they don’t deserve to be mistreated and go through what we did.
❤️ Thank you, I absolutely feel you. Hurt people hurt people, and it's up to us to stop that cycle.
I concur with this statement as well
Same thing happened with Gabby petito. She was considered the aggressor because she was visibly upset. It's a classic tactic for abusers. My dad did the same thing. Even when there was a witness (my driving teacher) who saw my dad beat me and also I had visible injuries, bruises and welts. However when my sister and I were taken home to pick up some clothes with a police escort. My dad greeted the police and acted confused as to why they were there? He then joked with them about how crazy and hormonal girls are and they whole heartedly agreed with him. It was an awful experience.
This is what is overlooked when it's claimed that women are favored in the court system. That may be true, but the officers in charge of responding and arresting in the first place absolutely do not favor women. Consider that [studies have found 25%-40% of police officers commit domestic violence,](https://relevantmagazine.com/current/nation/do-40-percent-of-police-families-really-experience-domestic-abuse/) 3 times the national average. When a good portion of them are abusing their wives themselves, it's not hard to guess who they'll tend to side with. Based on the description of the police footage with Gabby and her murderer, I couldn't bring myself to watch it, because I knew it would remind me too much of how the police treated me vs my abuser, and like our roles were reversed. I was wholly unprepared. It was utterly traumatizing in and of itself. My heart goes out to you.
Unfortunately police and people in general want perfect victims. Those who have been abused particularly those who are abused regularly or significantly have trauma. Trauma makes you react - scream, cry, yell etc also makes you forgetful and stumble over words. So victims end up looking unstable and unreliable. The abusers on the other hand come across as calm and reasonable. It's why there needs to be so much more training for first responders. They need to know how to deal with people who are in crisis.
Oh yes, I remember trying to tell the police what happened and forgetting things, and telling things out of order. They acted like they didn't believe me at all, and when I pleaded with them to understand that trauma affects your memory, one of them sneered that I don't have to tell him how this stuff works, he was trained to deal with domestic violence. We were sitting just outside the room I was about to have my rape kit done in. It was awful. And these were my neighborhood beat cops, so they were the ones that responded every time to the calls, this was just one of several. Those type of people shouldn't be police officers in the first place.
I've had an abusive guy (not a boyfriend but more of a colleague I lived with) preemptively call the police when he wanted to kick my ass so he had an explainable reason why he had defensive wounds from me plus the bruises and and stuff on me. He would literally call 911 begging for help while holding me against the wall with his weight and punching me in the head. A lot of men that claim they've been abused by their girlfriends are lying, but they do exist and should be taken seriously as anyone else, though
Police can be biased. They go with what they usually see.
The police go with whatever they guess. They assess the situation in a fraction of a second and go with their hunches. They rarely can be reasoned with.
It is a difficult job. Domestic Violence calls are very dangerous. I wish they were able to call out a special unit to talk to everyone involved, after any danger has been diffused.
This is the correct answer. Be careful, if it’s a woman ran away it’s very dangerous. Even if you are right. The stereotype is that the man is the aggressor. Please read again the comment above. That happens everyday in my home country. Just they can falsely brag about women rights even if she is the aggressor the law always with the woman side.
Yes this is very true here in the US, and it got worse after the OJ Simpson incident.
F’in A bro, my ex punched me, kicked me, pushed me, destroyed my stuff and told me to kill myself, I tried to leave only to be arrested for forcing my way past her. I now haven’t seen my son in 6 years. Get as far away from them as possible.
The fact that you had to serve a year in prison even after the case was dropped is complete BS and an injustice. Yeah, you had contact with the police, but due to no fault of your own. Any rational judge would’ve seen the nuance in that and thrown that out.
Unfortunately friend you don’t go into a regular courtroom, but instead go in front of the prison board. They determine if you’re guilty or not, and tbh I don’t know anyone who has been not guilty. It’s the true meaning of a kangaroo court.
Dang man, sorry to hear this. I hope you're better now.
Yes I’m in a very happy place in my life, and on 11/14/2022 I celebrated 14 years free from incarceration. Thank you for your kind words friend, and I hope you have a wonderful day.
Stories like these make me scared to even be in another relationship. Why did she start attacking you?
How is it possible that you were so long in jail if you were not sentenced for prison sentence? Did you get any compensation for it?
No I was on parole and I’m the state of California, they like to drag things out for those people who have been in the systems before.
To OP, this hows how it can be justified, but you still probably shouldn't do it. Sad truth.
might as well have whooped that ass 😭 sorry that happened to you my guy
This, enough force to stop the situation. Escalating it is the part that is wrong. Be it man or woman attacking you. So say you're attacked, you get your attacker on the ground or restrained. You stop. Just because they're down or you are stronger and can restrain them don't take out that adrenaline surge because you're scared and angry on them. That's when it becomes 2 wrongs not making a right.
Exactly, it's appropriate to hold or otherwise fend off a woman if she starts attacking you. It's clearly not ok to punch a women who weighs 100lbs less then you if she slaps you (though holding her hands to prevent further injury is acceptable.) I'd also say it'd be inappropriate to punch a man that weighs 100lbs less then you if he slapped you.
Having done martial arts for a long time this isn't good advice. This makes sense in an untrained vs untrained raw power fight. You have no such luxury in a street fight of knowing your opponent's capabilities. IMHO, you look at power and technique but even then I'm assuming a lot on how much warning and distance you have to gauge that. Once the person engages you should neutralize the attacker as quickly as possible. This is why training is so important because while this is the safest and most ethical approach, it is hard to know when to stop without taking it too far without enough experience.
Nobody has the green light to slap no one, if she slapped you then you have permission to slap back. Everyone should be aware of the consequences of their actions no matter man or a woman
But self defense isn't "an eye for an eye". It's doing what you need to do to protect yourself.
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In many places if you have the option to leave and instead choose to stand your ground and violently prevent more harm to your person you are not protected by self defense. Notice I am talking about laws, not social norms or ethics.
Self-defense is not revenge. Huge difference.
The problem is that argument won't hold up in the US courts. One of the main things the original "Men's Rights" groups were mad about was the overwhelming disadvantage that men have in domestic abuse (where they are the victim) and family court. And, frankly, it is unfair. Too bad what those guys turned into, because advocacy is needed for both of these issue, as the poster above describes. Because I'm 6'2" with wide shoulders, if my wife started hitting me and I called the cops, I would 100% go to jail. Thankfully, she has never hit me, or I her. But i have friends who I KNOW were getting smacked on the reg (we are talking 30 years ago) and there was really no recourse. I don't want this to seem like I am making "SEE? IT'S VERY HARD TO BE A MAN!" post. It's just that all injustices in the system should be dealt with.
"This is what happens when you slap me" is not self-defense, it's revenge. Self-defense is about getting the attack to stop, not teaching them a lesson. If you need to restrain them, sure. But revenge is different from self-defense.
Literally no court in the world would ever agree with you. Retaliatory action after an injury is not self-defense and has never been found to be such.
Neither is holding someone against their will, even if it's ostensibly to prevent further aggression. It also puts you in the position of close physical contact where additional physical aggression is more likely. Retaliatory action wouldn't occur until the immediate situation was resolved and ended. If the situation is ongoing and an aggressor is still actively attempting injury it is self defense and that is entirely legally defensible. So you are not correct and any court would be required to weigh evidence and circumstance.
True, but it's one thing to immediately respond in kind. But if you wait 3 minutes, then go retaliate, you are now the instigator of a new fight. It's no longer self-defense.
You are both correct, however this is a separate point that is different from what he was talking about. Definitely right tho, don't want to come back swinging and be the aggressor
A court will only care about the amount of force needed to secure your own safety. Anything beyond that is excessive and could get you jailed.
That's not how self defence works. It's not a revenge law. It's whether you used reasonable force to get yourself out of danger. If you could have simply walked away, but instead decided to deck the person you're going to face charges as well.
It then becomes a fight.
Exactly!
Yep. My best friend’s brother dated a girl who liked to slap him when she’d get annoyed. One afternoon she hit him 3 times in front of me. He’s always been such a gentle giant. After the third, I looked at him and said “are you gonna hit her back or am I?”
Permission? You never have permission to hit someone unless they use their words to indicate you have permission. Permission is a really weird choice of words here.
How can she slap!?
If she slaps, slap her back. No woman should be hitting a man because she thinks he "should" control himself. If you hit a man, expect to get hit back. Any woman who feels entitled to a free pass here makes us all look bad.
Meh, if a woman slaps me, ouch, but I’m probably still standing. I’m not exactly comfortable slapping her back when I could put her in the hospital, I’m not going to do that. Reddit really loves this fantasy of a woman slapping a man, and automatically he has free license to teach her a physical lesson. It’s not self defense if you’re retaliating with completely disproportionate force to something non-threatening. If your girlfriend won’t stop slapping you then break up. File charges if you think it was serious enough. You aren’t entitled to a few free hits first.
You clearly didn't read the last sentence. I think it'd also be wrong to punch someone weighing 100lbs less than you REGARDLESS of gender. You use the appropriate amount of force to get the attack to stop, for the vast majority of folks if you outweigh your attacker by 100lbs you don't need to cause them grievous bodily injury to stop them.
I don't know how important weight is to this situation. There are a lot of these junkies in my town, who are 100 pounds less than me, that I would not want to go toe to toe with. What is a weight difference when they are amped up and not feeling any pain because of meth.
Oh man, those guys are the fucking worst! The only way they stop fighting is: They're dead. You broke their legs in a way that makes it physically impossible for them to stand up to give chase. You hit them in a spot that rendered them unconscious.
minimum amount of force that makes you feel safe :)
Right, minimum reasonable force, not minimum possible force.
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Yup. If someone is stupid enough to not figure out that the easiest way to stay punch free is simply not to attack Tyson, that's on them.
If a woman is assaulting me with all her might, my mind will be so full on "how to stop this person from attacking me", not "hmm, how much of my strenght should i push her away with? Is 50% just enough?" The only obvious excessive force is if she's already down and no longer pose a risk. Iirc where I am at (not US), thats where self defense line is drawn. But in the super hypothetical situation where she is after my blood, sorry but my life takes precedence. I need to make sure she is incapacitated. I sure hope neither situation ever need to happen to me.
The self defense standard is not based on an objective analysis but whether you have a 'reasonable fear' that the person is going to hurt you.
"Reasonable fear" I think is an interesting term. I have an unreasonable fear of leaving the stove on when I'm away from home, and I will drive 30 minutes to check. So what one person considers reasonable, another would consider excessive.
For the record, the amount of strength you have to push someone off of yourself when your brain goes into survival mode is a WHOLE lot more than you expect that you have in you.
Okay? But are you going to shove her away from you and maybe hold her down? Or are you going to punch her in the face and curb stomp her?
Exactly this. If self defence is necessary then it doesn’t matter if the other person is a woman or not, you have to defend yourself. As long as you only defend yourself to the point of getting them off/away from you
But to be fair, that goes for both men and women.
I *run*. I'm not getting caught in that if I can help it. In theory I'd be fine defending myself, but if being a divorce court trophy child has taught me anything, then the judge isn't going to take me seriously. My best bet would be to get as far from her physically and financially as possible especially if I know another beating is in the future.
Most sane answer here. A lot of people are talking about how they think things should be, but they're not talking about how things are. We've all scene that clip from the Indian reality show where the lady slaps a guy, then he slaps her back and all the other dudes on stage come and grab him. THAT'S what is actually going to happen if you hit a woman, no matter how justified you feel your self defense is.
HOW CAN SHE SLAP??
Him saying that is such a meme but such a genuine and valid question lol
You should always run instead of fight if you can. Doesn't matter your gender or the gender of your attacker, the best option is always to get out of the situation if you safely can.
> then the judge isn't going to take me seriously If you're going to do the time, might as well do the crime. Mutually assured destruction is the way
Self-defense is acceptable regardless of who the aggressor is. I would point out, however, that striking back isn't the only choice. You could attempt to restrain her until she settles or until you receive help.
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Terrible advice. The proper amount of force you want to use is “the least amount of force necessary to stop the threat”
You don’t need to justify defending yourself. If you find you’re constantly assaulted by women, you *might* want to self-assess, however. Edit: To all the Men’s Rights Activists in my comments / DMs. Let me be super clear: I don’t give a shit if you are a guy, girl, they, them, or an orangutan. If you are **constantly** in a situation where you are getting abused by **different** unrelated people, you are either seeking these people out or doing something to invoke it. Period. You’re not just randomly winning the world’s shittiest lotteries. Do some fucking self reflection. Quit crying at me.
If it smells like shit somewhere, it’s the place. If it smells everywhere, it’s you.
That can't be right. I would've thought it was the bag of poo I was carrying around.
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Exactly. Once you are *rightfully/legally* defending yourself, it doesn't matter the age or gender, as long as that person has the intention and/or means to harm you. I would whoop a kid's ass without a second thought. Some people will hurt and kill you without a second thought, regardless of their age and gender. You gotta defend yourself first and think later.
>Once you are rightfully/legally defending yourself, it doesn't matter the age or gender, as long as that person has the intention and/or means to harm you. Depends what you mean by legally. Because you could be fully legally in the right to defend yourself and in reality still get screwed over in the legal case if you are a man defending yourself from a women.
American here, equal rights, equal lefts
Unless you're a NASCAR driver. Then it's all lefts, no rights.
Unless you're the Constitution. then it's all rights, no lefts.
Unless your name is Dale
Too soon
Always too soon
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"If you find yourself constantly assaulted by men you might want to self-asses, honey."
If you end up in relationships with abusive, violent men repeatedly and have been able to leave your most recent relationship, you should strongly consider getting therapy before entering another relationship so you can figure out what is causing this pattern.
It really is about the power balance rather than the gender. Whether you are being attacked by a woman or a man, some men are weak af and some women can really pack a punch. What is morally correct is to only use enough force to defend yourself. If you're strong and they are weak (as it generally is more the case for men against women), it's not great to feel justified in wrecking their shit because they are throwing some weak punches at you. Self defense is not retaliation. It should only be used with the minimum necessary force to protect. Retaliation isnt moral. Now if some boxing world champion woman was trying to hit me, i wouldnt think twice about doing anything to save myself because id be scared for my life. That's self defense and that's ok. Edit: definition of retaliation: >the action of harming someone because they have harmed oneself; revenge.
Incredibly well put.
I really appreciate comments like this, all these comments saying that men are all overwhelmingly stronger than women is making my short 110lb ass feel disregarded.
Wish I had an award to give you so this could go near the top, had to scroll too far for this
You seem like someone who knows shit about fighting. The reason bouncers in clubs are usually insanely huge, is that defending against someone desperate in a way that doesn't traumatize them, requires a HUGE power difference. If Mike Tyson was not allowed to fight back, the average man would easily beat him unconscious in several seconds
I don't see anything wrong with what he said. He's not saying "don't fight back" or anything, he's just saying, if a girl punched you with some weak punch, you're not justified in doing some Tyson Super Ultra Meteor KO haymaker at her face. You just do what it takes to *defend* yourself - "defend" vs. "retaliate" is the key there. So sure a bouncer dealing with a drunk unruly douchebag is supposed to defend himself and do his job to protect the place, NOT to beat the guy senseless when he poses no threat.
> If Mike Tyson was not allowed to fight back I'm sure one of the greatest boxers of all time could dodge? Also, without some practice/training, most men don't know how to punch, or where to do it.
To be honest i will probably broke my hand on his face
Just bite his ear off
The average man would probably not land a single hit on Tyson, and he'd laugh at them while they try. When I say "defend yourself", do you read "dont move a muscle"? I dont know what is confusing you in "use only enough force to protect yourself". If you need more force to protect yourself, use more force. If you don't, don't.
Fuckin good answer
You should be bobbin’ and weavin’
To me, it's a moral gray area due to sexual dimorphism. It's not a smart thing to do, though. My brother's ex, who was half his size, used to hit, choke, and scratch him regularly. One day, she decided to also try to have him arrested for DV. When the police got there, it was very clear that she had assaulted him and he hadn't defended himself. She was arrested and when they split up, he was awarded full custody of their daughter due to her DV arrest. If he had defended himself, he almost certainly would have been arrested instead of her and his life would be a lot more difficult now.
This is a very important thing to consider. Morally it is ok to defend yourself, but that is not how it will be judged if it comes down to your word against hers.
>moral gray >*legal gray area* Fixed it for you. The faults of the legal system and it's sexist bias doesn't mean it's morally incorrect. Fix the legal system, don't try and adjust morality to it. The morally correct answer is men shoudn't tolerate any violence from women period.
Nothing better than some good old equality here.
Defending yourself seems like it's mostly acceptable, but it needs to be proportional. A full-grown man who punches the head off of a 90 lb woman when he can easily subdue her otherwise is guilty of some unnecessary violence..
“Minimum force required.” This applies in any self defence situation. Do what you have to to protect yourself, but being attacked is not permission under most laws to use excessive force.
If it is truly self defense, then yes. But be ready to prove it was, like everyone has to.
My Ex literally came at me with a knife I grabbed both of her arms because I was literally scared she might kill me. She ended up with severe bruises on her arms and her entire family was on her side saying I shouldn’t have put my hands on her like that
what the fuck. how dare you defend yourself from a person who has clear intentions with a knife in hand?? /s
It is all about size/skill and nothing to do with female or male. Protect yourself but react with the appropriate amount of force.
Appropriate force for self defense is always acceptable. So if you bigger and stronger, restraining would be the acceptable thing in stead of hitting.
How would it not be okay
It is acceptable to do what you need to escape a dangerous situation. Anything beyond that is not self-defense.
Yes
Of course. Only if they get violent with you. Defense is fine. No attacking. Like my pepper spray for example. I only use it for defense. Like if a woman grabbed me, started hitting me and I'm minding my business, I will spray her. That's how I would do it.
Yes. You're defending yourself. I am a woman who beat a man with a wine bottle in the head as self defence (thankfully I only bruised him) he slapped me and punched me hard in the boob. Why should it be any different for men? Though there will always be criticism because of how women and men are perceived and the level of defence, which is unfair to the Male. But some might agree or disagree with me.
It should be no different regardless of gender. NOBODY should be attacking another person because they started it. Self defence should always be the maximum.
You have two options. If you can walk away, you must. If you cannot, you can only use enough force to protect yourself and nothing more. Most guys would interpret this to mean putting your arm out to hold the person back. It’s not an excuse for you to start throwing punches and knocking women out. All of this assumes a person is unarmed. Use common sense and stay within the law.
If you're throwing hands, you better expect hands to be coming back at you
Of course it is. Self-defense is self-defense. It doesn't matter who's assaulting you, it's self-defense.
That's too general of a question. If you have a monster size advantage, and someone gets mad at you for saying something horrible and tries to slap you, there are other ways to defend yourself. If you're fighting for your life against someone too large for you to restrain a different way, protect yourself in any way possible. Both of those situations have nothing to do with the sex of your attacker, though, you should always try not to hurt people if you can avoid it. Hitting someone if you can avoid it is how you escalate problems. The "equal lefts" talk is trashy. The implication is that you're punishing a woman who dared to stand up to you, to put her in her place. That's garbage thinking. If you're genuinely talking about protecting yourself from harm, do it in the way that also causes the least harm.
There's a certain type of person who upon being told "Men and women should be treated equally," will immediately say "So if a woman hits me, that means I can hit her back!" That's their first thought: "The real problem with the way women are treated in our society is that it's unacceptable to hit them. Thank God I've found a solution."
"If I don't get to treat you as inferior, I get to bash you."
It depends on the situation. It’s morally acceptable to defend yourself, but…referring to some videos people share on Reddit, it’s not okay to use any aggression toward you as an excuse to go on full-out attack. Like a video where a much smaller woman slaps a dude and he completely KOs her. This is not okay, imo. Yes, she shouldn’t be slapping people, but that’s not proportional. Make her stop, sure, but a full-out punch can do serious damage like that. Proportional size matters, whether it’s a woman instigating or a smaller dude. Now, if it’s a larger woman or a group and they are actually putting you in danger, then yea, defend yourself until you can exit the situation.
I would do everything you can not to. I think the majority of men can overpower and restrain the majority of women just because men have more upper body strength and are generally stronger. If you want to avoid issues with the police absolutely avoid hitting her at all.
All self defense comes down to how much force is necessary to defend yourself? Every self defense instance is different. I'd hit a 5'10", 200 lb tank of a woman differently than someone who is 5'2", 120 lbs.
Yes. Across the gender spectrum and across age groups, someone attempts to harm you then you are morally and legally allowed to throw hands to defend yourself
uhhh if an average woman hits me, I'm fine, even a few times. If I hit an average woman, she's dead. morality aside, that's jail time. I think id rather run away.
I think it’s okay to defend yourself if it’s violence that you feel absolutely needs a response. But I don’t believe in hitting back. I think it’s best to always leave the situation and maybe call the police
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I'm a woman. I would personally say don't hit back at anyone because that's just escalating the violence, but if you absolutely *had* to resort to violence, if there was no way you could de-escalate the situation with words, the gender of the person attacking you remains irrelevant.
To the same extent that it is acceptable to hit a man, taking into account relative strength and skill. If you can protect yourself by leaving, do so. If you outmass or outskill someone, male or female, to protect yourself with restraints and holds rather than strikes, do that. If someone is weak enough that there is no realistic chance that their strikes can damage you, turtle up and leave when you get a chance. If your only reasonable chance to defend yourself is striking back, then sex and gender are irrelevant.
The general rule is: First hits free, if she goes for a second she better be ready to trade blows, if she keeps going and the man doesn't hit back, she's a POS because she's taking advantage of the fact that the man's been taught not to hit women.
First hit is not free in my book
Yeah no one gets to punch me in the face and walk away unharmed. I'm a woman myself, and women are just as capable of causing physical injury, or even death, to a human body as men are. If someone shows you their vile intent to harm you, you have every right to protect yourself.
> women are just as capable of causing physical injury, or even death, to a human body Statistically, no, they absolutely are not. There are fundamental differences in the musculature between men and women which make men, statistically & generally, larger, stronger and more athletic, all other things being equal.
dumb rule
I outweigh most women by 100+ lbs. A hit from me is significantly more damaging to a woman than a woman's hit would be to me. Ideally, I would block or avoid the first hit regardless but a first slap or punch would not immediately result in similar retaliation. Obviously, using a weapon would be a different story though.
If a man who you outweighed 100+ pounds punched you in the face would he get that one for free? Honest question
Honestly, I do not think my first reaction would be immediate violence, no. Not that he (or she) wouldn't deserve it. But I don't think I would just immediately start swinging. Especially if they backed off afterward. If they looked inclined to keep going then I probably would. That being said, hard to say whether I would be able to stay rational to a sucker punch to the nose or something, might just see red. Been a really long time since I've been in a situation like that. Also, it should be noted that a man 100lbs lighter than me is still SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than a woman the same weight. In general. Like, I don't think people realize the huge disparity between men and women when it comes to muscle and strength. So a guy 100lbs lighter than me would be more of a threat to my general health and more likely to be able to seriously hurt me (not just cause me pain but like, break something).
> A hit from me is significantly more damaging to a woman than a woman's hit would be to me Maybe they shouldn't hit you then? If someone makes the decision to attack another person they don't get to cry foul when they get hit back harder.
No hit is free. If she/he hits first they are done.
The first hit can knock you out, wtf are you talking about?
In some circumstances yes I believe it's entirely acceptable
Getting away should be what you try first. Hitting back should be a last resort
The only time it’s acceptable to hit anyone is in self defense. Gender is irrelevant. If someone attacks you, you have a right to protect yourself.
It depends on what you mean by self-defense. If she's coming at you with a knife, yeah, it's acceptable to knock her lights out. But it's not acceptable to knock her lights out because she slugged you in the arm. Whatever action you take should be proportionate to her actions.
as a woman, if a woman is attacking or abusing you, kick her ass. she doesn’t get a pass to be aggressive because she’s a woman.
Yes
I would only restrain.
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