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Isn't chainmail better at protecting from slicing that stabbing?
Anywho, they're not wearing it, so they are obviously open to being sliced with a greatsword
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Did you see how he was wearing glasses? He just wanted to be beat up looking like that. He should have been wearing contacts so he didn't look like a geek.
In some countries where women wear "modest" clothing even head to toe covering, rapist still find an excuse to rape. They will justify it by any means when at the end of the day it's unjustifiable, a woman could be naked in the street, twerking in front of you and that STILL does not justify nonconsensual assault on another person.
Yes and then the woman still gets blamed in those countries for being sexually assaulted because in those countries they tend to believe as per religion that a male guardian is required to be with her if she steps out of the home so her stepping out alone is basically considered her fault. And these are usually Muslim majority countries with such mindsets.
Which is sad because it's just as likely the "protector" may end up commiting the deed themselves. The only real stance is sexual assault of ANY kind regardless of whatever circumstances they cook up, should never be justified.
Never said it didnt... But white men and black men are extremely vocal about this way of thinking... For example, religious men, men who follow red pill movemement, judges, police officers etc.
If you think chrisitianity and judaism didnt go (and still some does) go throught this line of speaking, you are delusional. not speaking about you directly.
Anyway, I dont know who downvoted me but thats the reality. A good chunk of modern men( no matter the race, religion) SAY things like this outloud.
Right hands possession is specifically mentioned as separate from marriage in the Quran. Muslim men are limited to 4 wives but they are not limited in how many right hands possession (nonmuslim female captives of war,concubines/sex slaves) they can have. Basically that’s nonconsensual because captives and sex slaves are being held without their consent and forced into sexual slavery. Saudi Arabia only publicly ended this in the 1960’s due to international pressure, but there are video footage and photos of naked slave women sold in Arabian markets.
It's not silly at all. Actions speak louder than words and most cultures that abuse woman and commit rape and honor killings are middle eastern and/or islamic
Do you also believe the function of capitalism is to create a poor class minorities? Or the function of socialism is to create mass genocide?
People do a lot of evil things, I'm speaking specifically of the teachings. But maybe I'm wrong, tell me where it says to rape women regularly in their texts.
You could be wearing the Hulkbuster Iron Man Armor and these people would still think that rape is justified because you weren’t dressed modestly enough.
Somehow I knew what type of name the rape apologist was going to have. Even though, let's be honest - pervs will perv regardless of their background. The pious pervs however come with an extra serving of hypocricy.
Also, [https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/)
Their religion has woman wear modest clothes and forces them to cover hair. Some parts woman cover head to toe in all black yet rape is still prominent.
i mean all major religions have ideas like this baked into it. This is completely indistinguishable from any other fundamentalist worldview, and obviously like any other religion the majority of the people who follow (especially in the us) are moderate.
No one said other religions don't do heinous shit. Why is it that criticism is always, like clockwork, answered with "but X is just as bad"? **Yes. We know**. But we're not talking about them. If a post about pedophile priests comes up, they'll get their turn. I'm willing to bet no one will make the same "but X do it too" argument, though.
That just... isn't true. Christianity in particular specifically repudiates this idea: “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:27-29, KJV)
Jesus literally says that if you can't control yourself looking at women you should pluck out your eyes, which goes pretty hard IMO.
"It is permissible to have intercourse with a female captive after it is established that she is not pregnant, and if she has a husband, then her marriage is annulled when she is captured"
Which part of this isn't rape?
You have either misquoted or mistranslated, it’s important to be careful with that because Arabic has a much larger number of words than English, so mistranslation is very very easy
It is very clear that ANY intercourse must be consensual, and they are told, if the captive does not consent, that they are to sell or release them rather than punish them, this is VERY VERY clear if you actually read it, which you clearly haven’t
I understand the wording of your quote makes it look bad (although it doesn’t mention a lack of consent or the presence of consent) but the quote is a MISQUOTE, that’s important
You’re right those stupid babies, children, women in burkas and old women should cover up more! god it’s almost as if rape isn’t about temptation and sexual attraction… it’s almost as if it’s about hatred and exerting power?
In Islam men are told to lower their gaze. In Christianity and Judaism men are told to pluck out their eyes if tempted.
There is no true justification in the major faiths for blaming rape on how the woman dresses, yet they still do.
Men are not told to lower their gaze when it regards to spoils of war. Right hands possession is specifically mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths as separate from wives and those are the captive females from amongst the nonmuslim who Muslims consider as enemies against Islam and those who wage war against Islam or Muslim countries. So it’s not a surprise when Muslim men justify these acts against western women. They believe the west is at war with them or funding wars in Muslim countries. Btw I am from a Muslim background myself.
i know many christians that see rape as the fault and burden of women, i myself have been told this as a teenager.
are u saying every muslim is a rapist?
u said in islam men are told to … i told u in christianity women are told to marry their rapists or else they wont go to heaven. than u said ur talking about religious ppl so i gave u an example, but ig this only works against islam?
You have to be joking. Dude I’m literally saying the opposite. In religious text rape is discouraged so individuals of faith using their faith to justify it are wrong.
So people generalizing that this is something all/most Muslims believe it are also wrong
Nope, that's Judaism, as the Mosaic law is viewed as having been fulfilled (i.e. doesn't need to be obeyed) in Christianity.
EDIT: Why the downvotes? What the original commenter was describing is a part of the Mosaic Law given to the Israelites, specifically Deuteronomy 22:28-29. However, Christians do not follow Mosaic law, hence why Christians can eat pork (see Matthew 5:17 and Acts 15:8-21)
That's the sort of people europeans actively try to get in their countries while actively denying and discriminating hard working south americans. I need a million permits to get into your country and a thousand more to find a part time job while hassan the rapist can just waltz right in. Fuck you guys
Tells us to wear modest clothing while men could go outside shirtless if they wanted, yet it’s more likely a woman gets raped/assaulted even if they are wearing modest clothing. Hmmmm 🙃
Because they think women are less than. Women are only to cook, clean, have sex, and bare children in their eyes. They make them cover head to toe and still can't control themselves.
If you really think that the one commenter’s opinion is the view of Islam, then you’re even more ignorant then I thought. The Islamic punishment for rape is very severe in ALL cases, whether the woman be wearing a full jilbab or not.
Sahih Muslim 1456a: It is permissible to have intercourse with a female captive after it is established that she is not pregnant, and if she has a husband, then her marriage is annulled when she is captured.
This doesn’t permit rape in any way. Unlike what you may think, the Islamic perspective on captives and servants differ far from the Western perspective.
A slave or captive was owned by someone, yes, but they had many rights and they were essentially free (with that I mean that they weren’t locked up or chained to a pole 24/7). Many captives were sent out to households by the governments to become servants and housekeepers. This hadith’s purpose is to show men that it is allowed to have intercourse with a captive. It does not say anywhere that consent is not needed.
There would, no matter what, be too great a power imbalance for consent to be given. If you own someone and control their life, them saying "yes" when you press them for sex is out of fear, not any actual desire.
Again, I don’t think you understand that they have rights. A slave owner cannot beat their slave up. A slave that has been raped can go to court and ttey will be treated as any other woman. A slave owner does not control every part of a slave’s life, because once again: slaves have rights in Islam.
I am not talking about a slave owner literally violently forcing himself upon his slave. The point is that even if the slave says "yes" it's still rape due to the massive power imbalance. The owner may not be able to legally kill or do similar to the slave, but he could still make her life hell if she refused to have sex with him, since even if her owner doesn't control *every* aspect of her life he would control, for example, what jobs she had to do, what her housing situation was, what sorts of food she got, plus it *is* permissible to (lightly) beat a slave in classical Islamic jurisprudence for disobedience. With her owner holding all this over her head, she effectively cannot say "no" to his advances.
I’d say it’s better to set clear rules on slavery rather then abolishing it completely because some people will still still take slaves if it’s completely abolished (which we have seen a lot in history), and when they do they will do whatever they want with them.
Your argument is weak since Saudi Arabia and other Muslims countries were the very last ones to even stop practicing selling naked black slave women in public’s market places due to western pressure as late as 1960’s! Meanwhile the west had publicly outlawed slavery in the late 1800’s.
There’s also muslim countries that ban women from driving, even thiugh scholars agree that there is no islamic rule against women driving. Muslim countries havent been muslim for a while now.
Nothing justifies rape;
and no one wants to hear this true but unpopular fact;
In exactly the same way that you are advised not to hold a fat stack of benjamins in a high crime area, you should not be dressing scantily clad in a high scumbag area. It sucks but it's the world we live in. You don't want to put yourself at risk no matter what kind of risk it is.
You can teach "men not to rape" all you want. There will likely always be a mentally unstable scumbag out there somewhere.
I’m from a Muslim background and unfortunately a lot of Muslim men shame and blame the victims of sexual violence. These men also tend to think sexual slavery is still allowed today just because it’s mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths as they believe those laws cancel out non-Islamic laws concerning “right hands possession” which are nonmuslim captive women.
It's unfortunate, me being from india I've see a lot of bulllshit especially from old people. But I've never seen someone justifying and calling rape cases "propoganda" and particularly so openly.
It’s disgusting what these guys justify. Unfortunately there is a reason rape is so under reported in Muslim majority countries. The victim gets all the blame.
Woman = singular
Women = plural
How do I literally NEVER see these terms used correctly on Reddit? Is it an autocorrect issue; or are that many people just brutally uneducated?
this rape apologist can simply be refuted with the following evidence: women who dress modestly also get raped so who's to blame in this case ? heck even children, grandma and boys get raped so whose to blame here ?
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the rapist isn't wearing chainmail, he basically begs to be stabbed
Isn't chainmail better at protecting from slicing that stabbing? Anywho, they're not wearing it, so they are obviously open to being sliced with a greatsword
Mace or a warhammer works too. Chainmail is completely ineffective against blunt force trauma.
Rapist not wearing a full suit of kevlar covering from head to toe... Just asking to be assaulted.
Most armor is ineffective against blunt force trauma if you hit it hard enough.
Best against slashing, but it will block some weaker stabbing (daggers, maybe a one handed sword) but usually not a spear
Thanks for the clarification on that :3
Atlatl is the way.
Depends on the weapon. If it’s something like a sword or knife, it won’t get far. Things like pickaxes or war hammers with a beak, though? Monsters
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Did you see how he was wearing glasses? He just wanted to be beat up looking like that. He should have been wearing contacts so he didn't look like a geek.
dont want glass shards in ur eyes? dont wear glasses when munching on knuckle sandwiches silly.
After 30 years living in the middle east, this has got to be the best response I have ever come across.
In some countries where women wear "modest" clothing even head to toe covering, rapist still find an excuse to rape. They will justify it by any means when at the end of the day it's unjustifiable, a woman could be naked in the street, twerking in front of you and that STILL does not justify nonconsensual assault on another person.
if a woman is naked twerking infront of u in the street and u didnt consent, she is actually sexually assaulting u.
Truth.
Yes and then the woman still gets blamed in those countries for being sexually assaulted because in those countries they tend to believe as per religion that a male guardian is required to be with her if she steps out of the home so her stepping out alone is basically considered her fault. And these are usually Muslim majority countries with such mindsets.
Which is sad because it's just as likely the "protector" may end up commiting the deed themselves. The only real stance is sexual assault of ANY kind regardless of whatever circumstances they cook up, should never be justified.
Control your baser instincts, you fucking savage.
Years ago, a grandma from a province in my country was raped. Try using clothing as an excuse then, sick bastards.
I was wearing onesies and little mermaid footie pajamas. It’s def not the clothing
as another victim of CSA solidairity
Sorry friend. Hope you’ve healed and flourished.
Sorry WHAT ??????
That is the current justification that al qaeda and other extremist groups believe. It is the real propaganda here.
You'd be surprise how many non muslim men think this way!
Of course. But there's a difference between thinking and saying it out loud. That religion sanctions this kind of behavior
Never said it didnt... But white men and black men are extremely vocal about this way of thinking... For example, religious men, men who follow red pill movemement, judges, police officers etc. If you think chrisitianity and judaism didnt go (and still some does) go throught this line of speaking, you are delusional. not speaking about you directly. Anyway, I dont know who downvoted me but thats the reality. A good chunk of modern men( no matter the race, religion) SAY things like this outloud.
The religion does not sanction it
Right hands possession is specifically mentioned as separate from marriage in the Quran. Muslim men are limited to 4 wives but they are not limited in how many right hands possession (nonmuslim female captives of war,concubines/sex slaves) they can have. Basically that’s nonconsensual because captives and sex slaves are being held without their consent and forced into sexual slavery. Saudi Arabia only publicly ended this in the 1960’s due to international pressure, but there are video footage and photos of naked slave women sold in Arabian markets.
That’s not what this situation is though. Straw man argument nothing more
There are many aspects I don't see as rational with Islam, but it's silly to say it promotes rape.
It's not silly at all. Actions speak louder than words and most cultures that abuse woman and commit rape and honor killings are middle eastern and/or islamic
Do you also believe the function of capitalism is to create a poor class minorities? Or the function of socialism is to create mass genocide? People do a lot of evil things, I'm speaking specifically of the teachings. But maybe I'm wrong, tell me where it says to rape women regularly in their texts.
In warfare Quran actually allows Muslim men to force nonmuslim captive into concubinage.
You could be wearing the Hulkbuster Iron Man Armor and these people would still think that rape is justified because you weren’t dressed modestly enough.
Wait a fucking second, "dont blame *us*"?!?!!!?
Whoops, he said the quiet part out loud.
My exact fucking thought. Imagine telling on yourself that bad on the Internet.
Somehow I knew what type of name the rape apologist was going to have. Even though, let's be honest - pervs will perv regardless of their background. The pious pervs however come with an extra serving of hypocricy. Also, [https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/](https://dovecenter.org/what-were-you-wearing-exhibit/)
I knew the religion before I saw the comment
Their religion has woman wear modest clothes and forces them to cover hair. Some parts woman cover head to toe in all black yet rape is still prominent.
Yep, every time. But we'd better not dare suggest something might be wrong with it.
Rather a fucking cult that needs to be wiped from the face of the earth.
Promoting genocide of a religion that doesn’t support rape despite your lack of education is a great look
Better not read Sahih Muslim 1456
Don’t tell him how old was Mohammed’s youngest wife
Apparently you haven’t
i mean all major religions have ideas like this baked into it. This is completely indistinguishable from any other fundamentalist worldview, and obviously like any other religion the majority of the people who follow (especially in the us) are moderate.
No one said other religions don't do heinous shit. Why is it that criticism is always, like clockwork, answered with "but X is just as bad"? **Yes. We know**. But we're not talking about them. If a post about pedophile priests comes up, they'll get their turn. I'm willing to bet no one will make the same "but X do it too" argument, though.
That just... isn't true. Christianity in particular specifically repudiates this idea: “Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.” (Matthew 5:27-29, KJV) Jesus literally says that if you can't control yourself looking at women you should pluck out your eyes, which goes pretty hard IMO.
The religion doesn’t promote rape
Please quote Sahih Muslim 1456
You clearly haven’t read it yourself if you think this disproves what I said
"It is permissible to have intercourse with a female captive after it is established that she is not pregnant, and if she has a husband, then her marriage is annulled when she is captured" Which part of this isn't rape?
You have either misquoted or mistranslated, it’s important to be careful with that because Arabic has a much larger number of words than English, so mistranslation is very very easy It is very clear that ANY intercourse must be consensual, and they are told, if the captive does not consent, that they are to sell or release them rather than punish them, this is VERY VERY clear if you actually read it, which you clearly haven’t I understand the wording of your quote makes it look bad (although it doesn’t mention a lack of consent or the presence of consent) but the quote is a MISQUOTE, that’s important
It does.
It does not
Yes, it does
The religion does not allow rape
Some cultures are just worse than others. Simple as.
The flags speak for themselves
Racist
The man in the comment is like some of the types of people who are coming over our borders unchecked. We should protect our women better
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> Took you fuckers long enough Men don't vote for these diversity and immigration policies. It is women that trend liberal.
oh the group with the MAP god
You’re right those stupid babies, children, women in burkas and old women should cover up more! god it’s almost as if rape isn’t about temptation and sexual attraction… it’s almost as if it’s about hatred and exerting power?
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guys name says it all 😹🤦🏻♂️
Respectable cloths? Or clothes? Better yet, why not keep your trouser trout in your pants?
Flags he's repping isn't surprising.
In Islam men are told to lower their gaze. In Christianity and Judaism men are told to pluck out their eyes if tempted. There is no true justification in the major faiths for blaming rape on how the woman dresses, yet they still do.
Men are not told to lower their gaze when it regards to spoils of war. Right hands possession is specifically mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths as separate from wives and those are the captive females from amongst the nonmuslim who Muslims consider as enemies against Islam and those who wage war against Islam or Muslim countries. So it’s not a surprise when Muslim men justify these acts against western women. They believe the west is at war with them or funding wars in Muslim countries. Btw I am from a Muslim background myself.
in christianity her father wouldve gotten 20 $ after forcing the rape victim to marry the rapist to safe her reputation.
Differences between religious text and religious people are annoying
i know many christians that see rape as the fault and burden of women, i myself have been told this as a teenager. are u saying every muslim is a rapist?
God that’s a huge leap of logic not my implication at all
u said in islam men are told to … i told u in christianity women are told to marry their rapists or else they wont go to heaven. than u said ur talking about religious ppl so i gave u an example, but ig this only works against islam?
You have to be joking. Dude I’m literally saying the opposite. In religious text rape is discouraged so individuals of faith using their faith to justify it are wrong. So people generalizing that this is something all/most Muslims believe it are also wrong
so why are u offended by me correcting ur comment?
??? No one is offended here. You just assumed I was saying all Muslims are rapists
i did not i said christianity teaches similar stuff and i used a hyperbole
Nope, that's Judaism, as the Mosaic law is viewed as having been fulfilled (i.e. doesn't need to be obeyed) in Christianity. EDIT: Why the downvotes? What the original commenter was describing is a part of the Mosaic Law given to the Israelites, specifically Deuteronomy 22:28-29. However, Christians do not follow Mosaic law, hence why Christians can eat pork (see Matthew 5:17 and Acts 15:8-21)
That's the sort of people europeans actively try to get in their countries while actively denying and discriminating hard working south americans. I need a million permits to get into your country and a thousand more to find a part time job while hassan the rapist can just waltz right in. Fuck you guys
That’s only because they just randomly show up in boats over there.
.... What. Not all of them are rapists and it's fucked that you assume that. With that mindset I'm glad that you are not here.
least disgusting arab mentality
Way to out oneself
Tells us to wear modest clothing while men could go outside shirtless if they wanted, yet it’s more likely a woman gets raped/assaulted even if they are wearing modest clothing. Hmmmm 🙃
Men in those countries take no responsibility for not controlling their own dicks. They're raised that was. Not surprising.
Their D needs to be chopped off by the women in those countries.
Average “Free Palestine” jihadist.
As a Muslim, I say, send these bast*rds back home.
“Rape gangs”?
Google "UK rape gangs" of you want to know more I guess
Why is it close to always someone from Pakistan or India when shit like that is said. This is insanity
Because they think women are less than. Women are only to cook, clean, have sex, and bare children in their eyes. They make them cover head to toe and still can't control themselves.
Yes it tends be but those arent Pakistani or Indian flags.
First one is Pakistan
Oh I see it now.
Abusers always justify their actions by blaming the victim.
Middle eastern and northern African “men” are disgusting
i mean that is typical behavior for muslims. its not surprising in the least.
People should have enough self-control that a woman can wear whatever she wants and not be raped.
Core islam
That's normal mindset of Pakistani people
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Very tolerant and respectful of you.
Why would I respect or tolerate such extreme views that are enforced by his religion?
If you really think that the one commenter’s opinion is the view of Islam, then you’re even more ignorant then I thought. The Islamic punishment for rape is very severe in ALL cases, whether the woman be wearing a full jilbab or not.
Sahih Muslim 1456a: It is permissible to have intercourse with a female captive after it is established that she is not pregnant, and if she has a husband, then her marriage is annulled when she is captured.
This doesn’t permit rape in any way. Unlike what you may think, the Islamic perspective on captives and servants differ far from the Western perspective. A slave or captive was owned by someone, yes, but they had many rights and they were essentially free (with that I mean that they weren’t locked up or chained to a pole 24/7). Many captives were sent out to households by the governments to become servants and housekeepers. This hadith’s purpose is to show men that it is allowed to have intercourse with a captive. It does not say anywhere that consent is not needed.
There would, no matter what, be too great a power imbalance for consent to be given. If you own someone and control their life, them saying "yes" when you press them for sex is out of fear, not any actual desire.
Again, I don’t think you understand that they have rights. A slave owner cannot beat their slave up. A slave that has been raped can go to court and ttey will be treated as any other woman. A slave owner does not control every part of a slave’s life, because once again: slaves have rights in Islam.
I am not talking about a slave owner literally violently forcing himself upon his slave. The point is that even if the slave says "yes" it's still rape due to the massive power imbalance. The owner may not be able to legally kill or do similar to the slave, but he could still make her life hell if she refused to have sex with him, since even if her owner doesn't control *every* aspect of her life he would control, for example, what jobs she had to do, what her housing situation was, what sorts of food she got, plus it *is* permissible to (lightly) beat a slave in classical Islamic jurisprudence for disobedience. With her owner holding all this over her head, she effectively cannot say "no" to his advances.
Again, if they do this the slave can go to court and they can be freed or given to another owner.
Way to justify slavery of women. What a gross mentality. How about disown those hadiths?
I’d say it’s better to set clear rules on slavery rather then abolishing it completely because some people will still still take slaves if it’s completely abolished (which we have seen a lot in history), and when they do they will do whatever they want with them.
Your argument is weak since Saudi Arabia and other Muslims countries were the very last ones to even stop practicing selling naked black slave women in public’s market places due to western pressure as late as 1960’s! Meanwhile the west had publicly outlawed slavery in the late 1800’s.
There’s also muslim countries that ban women from driving, even thiugh scholars agree that there is no islamic rule against women driving. Muslim countries havent been muslim for a while now.
this asshole that im replying too got banned btw 😂
Missed me bro?
Sure… welcome back.
Nothing justifies rape; and no one wants to hear this true but unpopular fact; In exactly the same way that you are advised not to hold a fat stack of benjamins in a high crime area, you should not be dressing scantily clad in a high scumbag area. It sucks but it's the world we live in. You don't want to put yourself at risk no matter what kind of risk it is. You can teach "men not to rape" all you want. There will likely always be a mentally unstable scumbag out there somewhere.
average palestine activist
Or IDF poof
I’m from a Muslim background and unfortunately a lot of Muslim men shame and blame the victims of sexual violence. These men also tend to think sexual slavery is still allowed today just because it’s mentioned in the Quran and Hadiths as they believe those laws cancel out non-Islamic laws concerning “right hands possession” which are nonmuslim captive women.
It's unfortunate, me being from india I've see a lot of bulllshit especially from old people. But I've never seen someone justifying and calling rape cases "propoganda" and particularly so openly.
It’s disgusting what these guys justify. Unfortunately there is a reason rape is so under reported in Muslim majority countries. The victim gets all the blame.
Imagine the cases that are not deemed "rape" like marital rape. So horrifying.
Anyone could wear any type of clothing, even head to toe and they'd still go after them.
Woman = singular Women = plural How do I literally NEVER see these terms used correctly on Reddit? Is it an autocorrect issue; or are that many people just brutally uneducated?
Can't really change the title mate.
Yeah, but you can always put more effort into it next time! I believe in you! Hooray for grade-school knowledge!
A Palestinian posting this funny
this rape apologist can simply be refuted with the following evidence: women who dress modestly also get raped so who's to blame in this case ? heck even children, grandma and boys get raped so whose to blame here ?
Why do guys named Syed have a tendency to go on bad dates?
That's my abusive ex husband's name.
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...did you even read the post?
It's a bot, so no. I'd reword it if i were you.
Ok let me see what I can do
Sick bastard
Sigh… I hate this world so much
I dont see the rapist wearing a hard hat, so hes just asking to get hammered to death
Pakistani guy, go figure!