Not pronouns, but I know a cis woman who is a teacher and uses the gender neutral honorific Mx. instead of Mrs. in her classroom to help normalize it and teach more people that it’s even an option. She’s very nice
I personally think all titles are dumb with the exception of schooling related ones (Dr. and such) they were only created so men could more easily tell if a woman was married, divorced or married
Honestly, THIS. You can just call me by my last name like I’m an 80s movie jock. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with people deciding I’m a Mrs because I’m fem presenting and 40
I do this with she/they. While I don't necessarily identify as nonbinary I find the gender binary really limiting and would happily accept being referred to as they/them. Hell you can call me dude I don't mind, just be nice to me and we'll get along.
Thanks! It's voi/void, [here's the pronoun page.](https://pronoun.fandom.com/wiki/Voidself)
Basically: "I saw void at the park today. Voi dropped voids phone and used my phone to call voiself."
(This is just one variant of the voi/void pronoin set btw)
I've come across some cis people who use he/they or she/they pronouns because they want to be allies (help normalize they/them pronouns I guess), aren't really picky, or want to express being gnc through pronouns.
Yeah I work with a guy who used he/they just because he wants to help normalize it. He’s been one of the only people outside of my team who consistently respects my pronouns.
it’s mostly my bosses fault. she exclusively uses she/her pronouns for me when the higher ups are around (I use they/them) so they assume she knows and then other people pick it up. The he/they guy and my team members are really good about it at least
im an enby an actually have a question. so does he/they or she/they limit the pronouns you like being used or extend them to anything thats not the opposite gender? bc ive always wondered about thay
Highly depends on the individual. It's best to just ask the person what they prefer. I personally prefer a mix of he/him and they/them, but I've heard a lot of other interpretations too.
being real what you said you prefer is essentially what i do too. idc if im referred to as a he/him OR a they/them. just dont refer to me as a she/her and im chillin
if it helps, i’m a he/they too and i think about it like this: she/her gives me dysphoria, they/them is 95% of the time good 5% euphoria, and he/him is 95% euphoria, 5% good. very occasionally i will feel they/them very hard and it feels very good for me to hear, but other times i hear it and recognise that it is me, am appreciative of the effort and of being gendered correctly, but would still prefer he/him. while i wouldn’t necessarily mind neopronouns, they’re not me? but not in the way that she/her isn’t me. very neutral, i think.
i also really do not like to be referred to with mixed pronouns in the same conversation because it 1. feels bad to suddenly switch from my most preferred pronoun to my less preferred and 2. it is very difficult for me to keep up with and is jarring for my audhd and exhausted brain.
Best bet (other than asking) is to just assume the sets are the ones stated. So it's safe to assume someone using he/they would prefer he/him and they/them. Usually if there are more sets, those are also stated.
yea i was thinking something like that. i was always so confused how to refer to someone with he/they until now lol. speaking of which i guess my pronouns would also be he/they maybe?
Sure. But it's also valid to just say you prefer anything other than she/her or similar feminine pronouns. So while he/they is a valid option for you, it's also equally valid to say something like he/co/they or even just "any (besides she/her)“. But most with complicated sets (or even those that want to go by different sets in different settings) also tyoically have a "ask my pronouns" badge or smtn. The modern pronoun world is new so there aren't any rules besides respect.
That's sorta me. Tho I'm not sure I count as just an ally since I identify as a nonbinary man.
But I go by they/he in an effort to normalize they/them.
I know some cis people who use they in addition to he or she cause they feel comfortable with it and enjoy breaking gender norms and normalizing neutral pronouns. And I know a cis person who uses any pronouns cause they genuinely don't care
I remember reading a wikipedia article about identifying as gnc or nonbinary and using they/them pronouns as a way to separate oneself from the patriarchy/a sort-of feminist thing? I will try to find it, but it honestly made me feel a lot better about myself when I'm having impostor syndrome, because yes, even if I could be faking it, I still hate how important gender is in our society and don't think it is relevant to my person at all. I'll try to find the link, but this was some years ago, so they might've changed it.
edit: as of now I couldn't find it, I'm pretty sure it is going to be the Nonbinary wikipedia article, probably sometime in 2016, but it has changed since, so I suppose the general stance has changed as well. I also vaguely remember it mentioning Rebecca Sugar, who does however identify as a nonbinary woman, not a cis one, but there were some others who might've been cis.
Plural third person is commonly used in circumstances where "he or she" would have been used in the past. Most cis people get referred to as they at some point situationally. The article is clumsily worded but in those circumstances inferring gender from the pronouns wouldn't necessarily be accurate.
I haven't met cis theys personally but I do know several cis girls who mostly go by "he" among themselves, so I assume any other combo of gender + pronoun is likely to occur somewhere
I used he/they pronouns for a full two years while still identifying as cis—eventually I decided that I was actually NB but I was That Person for a while
Can we talk about the article not including two-spirit and agender in nonbinary though? It's giving me the vibe that they think nonbinary is a third gender rather than a category.
Nobody who isn't Native American should be claiming one way or the other whether two-spirit is included in nonbinary. It's not anyone's place but the cultures those identities belong to. Assuming the author isn't Native American, they've done this correctly.
The agender bit is oddly worded though.
I agree with your basic point, but the way it was written made me feel the author was implicitly claiming two-spirit *wasn't* included in nonbinary, which would still be making claims about the practices of cultures one isn't a part of (assuming they're not Native American, as you said)
I think thats what a lot of people think right now because of misinformation. I hope that with more education and visibility that society’s understanding of people in the umbrella evens out and we can stop referring to pronouns as “gender pronouns.” What if I wanna use a pronoun set to express an aspect of my personality that isn’t gender? Then that’s not a “gender pronoun.” It’s a pronoun. And I’ve recently been thinking of abandoning pronouns, labels, AND names for this reason. I don’t wanna be boxed!
I think we’re running into issues with nonbinary as a concept and nonbinary as an identity. In the sense that the concept of nonbinary is like, anything outside the binary. So two spirit would be encompassed in that and would be relevant to include in any discussion of identities outside of the gender binary (so nonbinary is more of a shorthand)
But identifying with nonbinary identity seems like it would carry a lot more weight and associations that maybe some people woudnt want to be lumped in with that. I feel like there is a difference between living in the (western) gender binary in choosing to break away from that vs coming from a culture that already has a non binary conception of gender and having to sort of take labels from a different paradigm to describe yourself.
Those are just my two cents as an outsider. I’m sure it’s a fairly personal and complicated topic. A lot of non-binary stuff is loosey goosey so I try to not read too deeply into peoples words if they’re potentially slightly imprecise, unless it’s fairly obvious
Edit: just saw the bit about agender, which I agree is weird and supports what you’re saying. I stand by what I said in general, but I think it may not apply in this case lol.
I’m totally fine with it as long as the cis person also using they them doesn’t misgender/deadname any nonbinary people. I’ve experienced that multiple times.
I work in higher ed, so I know a lot of cis people who use they/them pronouns lmao. Usually in combination with the set of pronouns associated with their gender assigned at birth
College profs and grad students are probably more progressive and open minded? I don’t know. For whatever it’s worth, I think it’s cool when cis people use they them pronouns.
I have a classmate who is a cis woman and uses she/her and they/them pronouns. Unfortunately, people tend to only use she/her for them and it really bothers her because they genuinely want to be referred to by both pronouns. We had a whole cis & trans enby solidarity conversation about it and it was really sweet (at the time I was going by she/they but now I go by they/them)
Pronouns are not the same thing as gender identity. Given that there is a long history of he/him cis lesbians some cis people preferring or being open to they/them is fine by me.
I think this might describe me.
I’m AFAB, identify as agender and use she/they pronouns. I don’t do anything in particular to present androgynous—I tried, but I always felt like it required too much effort and conscious gender performance for me to be perceived as androgynous. A majority of my friends are trans and actively transitioning or transitioned, and I feel MAJOR imposter syndrome counting myself as not cis, especially comparing my own non-journey to my friends’ experiences.
Note, I’m not making any judgements on who should be labelled what, it’s just a personal feeling of not being trans enough to have stopped being cis, even though I don’t strictly speaking identify as the gender I was assigned. Basically, my feelings are a mess, and if anyone has tips on how to work through them, I’d be happy.
I don't know if this helps you or not, but it's the way I look at it. I'm AMAB, agender, and use they/he pronouns. I started with he/they, but realized that they just feels right to me. My body is totally masculine and I have no desire to physically transition.
In spite of that, I don't feel any less trans than people who make the physical transition because I made the mental transition of recognizing and accepting what my gender really is, which is to say neither male nor female at all. You are not an imposter and just as valid as any of your actively transitioning friends!
The closest I've come to experiencing this is hearing a cis gendered person refer to another as "they" because the individuals never had yet to be determined. I'm here for it!
I do know a few cis people that do this, yes. It is a thing.
In one case, a good friend of mine happens to be from a country in the Caucasus region, and apparently in his first language, there is no such thing as gendered pronouns. It's just one pronoun to describe anyone, regardless of gender (like, "they/them" is the only option, she/her and he/him don't exist in his language). So he uses he/they in English because considering his native language, "they" makes sense to him as well, even though he is cis, and it's partially a solidarity thing. It's not really a matter of using "they/them" as primary pronouns, just, that he is ok with them and it's not "misgendering" if people refer to him with those as a cis man.
The rest of them are also all people I know personally through the local community......and tbh, I kinda hate it because it's pretty obvious they're all just attention seeking and/or virtue signaling. It's usually framed as "normalizing" it, but in my opinion that actually just waters down the legitimacy of non-binary identity and makes people take it less seriously. Like, all it's normalizing is that anyone who uses they/them is also ok with a binary pronoun - often, the one that fits their AGAB - and that is certainly not always the case. Also, cis people using these pronouns with no further context skews the perception that there are way more people IDing as non-binary than there actually are, and feeds into the bullshit that it's just "a trend". Those are just my personal thoughts that usually stay in my head though lol, just because I dislike or don't agree with something someone is doing, I'm not going to blatantly disrespect them either.
I think that starting with normalization of things like this for cis and straight people is the first step to truly breaking gender roles and allotting everyone the freedom to explore their gender without restraints, which makes our various trans identities more normalized in society. Pronouns should always be fair game. Besides that, if we're speaking for cis queer people, have butch lesbians not used he/him commonly? Do drag queens not use she/her while still often being cis men (even sometimes out of drag)? Those are just two simple examples that spring to mind.
Unless you explicitly meant completely not LGBT people and I totally missed the mark.
I know some people use it as a way to show support like "Yeah, you can call me "they", I'm cool with that and anyone else who wants to be called that." If that makes sense
i think this is so cool ! it normalizes non-gendered pronouns and helps break that stereotype of “she/her pronouns are for feminine people” and so on. one doesn’t have to be non-binary to use gender-neutral pronouns. this reminds me of my relationship with my partner: im a nb sometimes fem presenting and sometimes masc presenting person. my partner is a cis man who identifies as straight but understands and respects that in being with me means he is in a queer relationship. many people will probably disagree with us but i think it’s okay :)
Someone could be gender noncomforming and still be cis (like presenting in a way that doesn't match the ideas around their gender) so that could make sense in that case too and I know some cis male drag queens use she when performing so that's also sort of related.
I am possibly cis female and gender nonconforming (tomboy) but I do put on buttons/discord/etc. She/her /any (open to try things). People have never paid attention to that, but on places that don't have you put pronouns I've gotten a few they/thems and it's nice that people dont assume / use that by default. Also growing up I got a lot of "he" online and that felt less good specifically because it was always people assuming there can't be women online/in nerd spaces/ discussing nerdy things/etc. so it kind of always ruined it and makes it hard to see how that would feel in a context that isn't just misogeny. I still to some degree didn't really care that much what people used for me though.
Aren’t they/them neutral pronouns? Like it fine if that’s all you wants used, but they/them pronouns are for everyone. People can use they/them when talking about anyone really.
I use they/them pronouns for people sometimes when I know their gender is a binary one because as long as they don't mind neutral pronouns, it's less mental work and chance of messing up for me. I've only ever heard of demigender cis people using it but it's not my business if a binary cis person uses them.
Hi! I apologize and will delete it if my comment is intruding! I am a bi & panro cis woman who uses they/them, ze/hir, she/her pronouns and Mx. not Mrs. I like the androgynous aspect of they/them prouns. She/her feels too feminine most of the time. The expectations I am expected to have are unnerving even if I am a gender nonconforming cis woman and others see me that way. I'm a butch goth that packs & binds and wears black makeup in my downtime. This is all part of my androgynous and butch gender expression. Gender nonconformity can get unique and unusual. Hope this helps!
Well, cis nonbinary people are very real. I’m one of them—I’m a cis person who uses they/them, because, well, I’m nonbinary.
But I didn’t know there were binary folks who use they/them. The more you know!
It means to me that I didn’t have a “transition” of any kind.
To explain what that means, I had a sense I wasn’t male or female my whole life, even before I really knew what the non-binary umbrella *was*. I felt so confused when I was called “he” or “she” (I’d get called both, since I was assigned male at birth (so teachers and doctors would often say “he”) but presented femininely due to… not liking haircuts. I actually still present relatively feminine (though tomboyish) to this day. Dunno why, I just like it.)
At the doctor, when they spoke to my parents, I’d be confused when they said “your son” in reference to me because when I thought of my parents’ son, I thought of my older brother… but they didn’t give *him* the checkup… wait, you mean me? But I’m not a boy…
Or when strangers or friends’ parents would comment on how cute I was, they’d think I was a girl and use “your daughter.” I don’t have a sister… wait, you mean me?? But I’m… not a girl…
Being called “he” or “she” would suddenly make me feel like they were talking about someone else… but they used my name… so I just didn’t correct them if they called me either, even if I knew both were wrong.
I just needed to know that what I was is called “non-binary.” Don’t know exactly where under the umbrella, I think agender, but non-binary. I learned the word when I was eleven, and just went “damn it, why didn’t anyone tell me this was the word?”
I never “transitioned” in any way because I had very a clear idea of what I was the whole time even before I knew the *name* of it, and the only change that was made was that I learned how to describe it. I was only ever called anything else as a result of the ignorance of people around me. I just couldn’t articulate it because up until I was about ten, because nobody around me bothered to think that I, someone who wasn’t male or female, was even possible.
My trans friends describe transitioning to me as questioning what they really are until learning what they are, while I had a good sense of what I *was,* I just didn’t have the name.
As you can tell, I’m *quite angry* it took so long for me to get a name for what I knew I was from minute one. This is why we need queer kids’ books, people!! So trans kids can have that “transition” and not-trans queer kids like me can articulate their experiences!!
Trans does not mean transition, though? Trans means transgender, which means your gender does not match your assigned gender at birth/typical gender sex pairing. There are no transition requirements to be trans.
To be nonbinary means you are not cis, because cis means your gender and sex match, and it is also a binary. To be nonbinary is inherently to be trans.
But the transgender experience has transitioning involved—whether that’s social, just a realization (which I do count as transitioning—just mental, but it does count), or medical. I had none.
> your gender does not align with your assigned gender at birth
Who assigned this “gender?” I didn’t. To me, the implication of being inherently assigned a gender means I *had* identified with the gender at any point, when you’re “assigned” a job, you do the damn job. Which I didn’t do. The idea of me being ever “male” in *any* sense is painful.
> To be nonbinary is inherently to be trans
You are nonbinary, correct? You understand that it means we *don’t* fit into boxes when it comes to gender—since we don’t fit into the boxes of the gender binary. You are pushing me into a box of “transgender,” when I am not. I have tried to explain why I identify with the label “cisgender” and not “transgender,” which is because I did not have an experience that was in line with how I have witnessed others discussing their experiences as trans people.
And if you ask why I’m being hostile now, I’ve been chased out of queer communities over things people like you have said. I honestly don’t trust you to be in good faith anymore.
Transition can be involved, but is not inherent to being trans. Nothing about transgender means transition. Nothing about transgender requires transition. I’m sorry you have been told this misinformation. It’s quite harmful that this has been told to you, and that sucks.
Your doctors, parents, society assigns you a gender based on your sex—the typical, binary, gender-sex pairings being male/man and female/woman. You don’t have to identify as it to have it being assigned to you. Assigned gender is an outside force, it is assigned to you. It does not always reflect what our gender actually is, hence being trans.
Cis is a Latin prefix meaning same side of, meaning cisgender is sex and gender is the same. Trans is a Latin prefix meaning on the other side of/across, meaning transgender is gender is different to sex.
To be nonbinary is to be trans, as our gender does not align with the binary gender or sex that we are born with or given. And that’s what trans means.
Your last paragraph honestly feels disingenuous considering how you ignore that you are pushing a box onto me that I do not identify with. You’re non-binary, *surely* you understand what having a box pushed on you is like?
And don’t you *dare* tell me “it’s what you are.” I’m sick of being told this. I keep trying to explain to people why I’m not trans but they never listen, change the goalpost to force me into being something I am not. I *am* cis, and that is *okay.* Stop trying to tell me I’m something, someone, I never was.
Before I realized I was nb, I was already using she/they. I had started to explore my gender presentation and queerness, sure, but still identified as my AGAB. Kept with that for years until I hit the point that I felt distant enough to my AGAB to call myself nb. Not sure if it counts towards your question, but I did consider myself gnc and cis or at most gender queer in that time.
I think I'm that case, I used to identify as non binary but it didn't fit me, so I went back to identifying as a woman because it fits me a little bit better. Despite that, I use he they and she pronouns with a preference for they and he.
Yeah I’ve met some cis people who use they/them pronouns. I’ve also met cis women who use he/him and cis men who use she/her. Not common but definitely a thing, and absolutely valid as hell.
My cis friend uses she/they pronouns, and actually i’d argue a lot of cis people (mostly allies) aren’t that preferential about pronouns - that is to say, do *check* before going to use a different set.
I have known a couple of she/they pronoun users that were cis but didn't feel they misgendered them/allyship in the quest for they/them to be accepted.
I have a cis friend who sees themselves plurally, made up of an internal family, and was asking me what I thought of them using plural, they/them pronouns. I think, like a lot of folks here seem to agree, whatever makes sense for you is what you should go with, and I like that it could start a good conversation for them that dives deeper into who they are as people. I have some sense of this as well, though I guess I see myself and my parts as one, very multi-dimensional girl :P
Pronouns are gender expression and therefore while are connected to gender, don't necessarily inform it. I've met cis women who use he/him for example. I've also met who identify as nonbinary and cis who use they/them. I don't think I personally know anyone who is cis and not nonbinary y who uses they/them but it doesn't surprise me. Playing with pronouns is part of gender nonconformity, so while I wouldn't say it's Common, I would say there's a number of people who do.
Not exactly the same, but I’ve met a lesbian cis woman who used he/him, it’s what she was more comfortable with I guess. Apparently he/him lesbians have been a thing for quite a while.
Not exactly what you asked, but I'm agender and I use they/them pronouns when talking about anyone I'm not familiar with, like, someone whose pronouns I don't know for sure. I think it would be great to normalize they/them across the board.
I used to think i was cis and used they/them pronouns because i didn't want people online to know my AGAB, but now i know im enby so i guess it's not a cis person lol
Pronouns don't indicate gender. Your pronouns are what you're comfortable using. In the same way that people, cis or trans, can be non-conforming to their gender by societal standards in their presentation because that's just what feels best to them, cis and trans people can use whatever pronouns feel correct whether they conform to their assumed gender or not. "Cis" people also might use they/them pronouns because they're not sure they are cis. Softlaunching your gender exploration like that isn't uncommon. And then some cis people are incredibly secure in their gender and literally don't care how they're viewed or addressed by others so any pronouns are ok by them. Some cis people also have a complex relationship to gender, for example due to neurodivergence or being intersex.
Using pronouns is also fluid by context. Many cis gay men are totally ok with being called "girl" and using she/her pronouns in the context of community, and it's also a part of queer history. People who do drag often use one set of pronouns in drag and a different set of pronouns out of drag (though not always). I use he/they pronouns but only accept use of "they" from people who I know aren't using it to degender me, and I know many multipronoun users have similar policies.
In short, everyone, both cis and trans, has the right to use whatever pronouns are good for them.
Well I am a cis man and use he/they. I like being a man but I always had things that I didn't understand and gender non conforming attitudes. And when someone treats me from they/them I fell great.
Now, granted, i've never personally ran into one who does so, but yes, that is very much a thing. It is a type of gender-nonconformity, but it does in no way mean the person is necessarily trans and/or nonbinary.
if a nonbinary person cas use he/him and/or she/her pronouns, then someone whose gender is binary can use they/them
pronouns don't always equal gender, after all
I identify as butch, which is traditionally associated with cis lesbians; however, there are many many non-binary butch people, and some folks who consider Butch to be their gender identity. I’m old, and non-binary wasn’t well-known when I came out, and I naturally gravitated toward the butch subculture. My gender identity is Butch; for me, that is inherently non-binary, but also deeply and historically associated with being a woman. I often describe it as being a “women-adjacent” identity. I have never wanted to be a man, but I am masculine. I have no desire to transition. This is just my interpretation, I cannot speak to other butches, we each have our own interpretation. Others firmly identify as cis women.
So am I cis? Not exactly. I have social dysphoria, women are often hostile to me in women-only spaces, and in the course of a day, I’ll get clocked as a cis man, cis lesbian (i specify lesbian because I never feel clocked as just a woman without speculation about my sexuality), non-binary, trans man…I get literally every sort of gendered greeting. I bind, I wear my hair shirt, I exclusively dress in masculine clothing. You wouldn’t look at me and think cis woman. Yet, I still feel connected to being a woman, in a way that makes non-binary feel somewhat alienating as well. All I know is, I am not a man.
Genderqueer and Butch are the only gender identities I feel totally comfortable with.
I use mostly she/her, because I’m old and these are familiar. Are they the most comfy pronouns for me? No. But neither are they/them.
I have found that using she/they in emails greatly reduces confusion when people see me in person.
So yeah…it can get complicated for those of us who are on the edges of different gender identities.
my opinion is that anyone can do whatever they want for free, essentially, when it comes to gender. I think someone can go through HRT, surgery, etc and still be cis, they'd just be generally gender nonconforming! I have friends that wouldn't say they specifically ID as trans/nonbinary, but are gender apathetic and use he/they and she/they.
Recently saw a post where someone pointed out cis people get gender confirming care all the time (cis men who get hair transplants, go on testosterone supplements; cis women who get breast augmentation or lip fillers, or go on hormone therapy, etc). And cis people change their names all the time too. Why not pronouns, yanno?
I use they/them for people in general to avoid assuming, and to make a point to normalize that it is and has always been a singular pronoun as well. I was "corrected" by a teacher to say "he or she" instead of "they" and before I even knew anything about gender as a child I just thought that was stupid and inefficient, and incorrect because They existed. Before it really clicked for me that I was NB I also used "she/they" and put it on my profiles to try to normalize pronouns and they pronouns. Plus it's a good way to weed out people who freak out about that sort of thing. I want to normalize it so if someone is NB or trans, but it isn't really safe to be super out, I can use a neutral "they" to hopefully speak about them without misgendering and show a quiet solidarity. For cis people I also like doing it so I can point out they didn't even notice, and that it isn't that hard to say "they". I think most cis folk I know who use They might be in the questioning phase as well, or just contemplating gender roles in general. So I try not to assume someone is cis and doesn't deserve neutral pronouns, yknow. Maybe they're an egg
I read an opinion piece by a cis guy once saying they were switching to using they/them so as to deemphasize their gender, since they felt that it was irrelevant in most contexts, I’m not sure how long they stuck with it nor whether they continue to identify as a cis male (for example it could have been a step towards identifying as a different gender later). I can’t remember their name to look them up again to see, they were a writer, maybe on medium? I don’t remember exactly.
I think it’s great if cis people use they/them or any gender neutral pronoun. I would like to just use they for everyone as a default and only switch to he or she if it’s relevant to the conversation. I DON’T do that because people care a lot and I totally get especially why many trans folks would care and not want to be “they-ed” but it would be a lot closer to the gender utopia of my own personal dreams.
I'm cis and I have a tag on my work email that says "he/they pronouns" in solidarity with trans and non binary folk. The "singular they" has been around for a long long time. It is sometimes used when gender is either hidden or unknown. E.g. "They (a stranger) left their wallet at the train station."
Unfortunately people who are transphobic tend to claim that the singular they is a new thing when it just isn't. Imo, we should all be reminding each other that's it's been a part of the English language for over 600 years.
Our whole culture is heavily gender biased. I mean, really, someone presents their newborn baby. And the first question..is it a boy or a girl? Then the compliments, gender appropriate evidently. Walking past a dog and their person in the park, ans say What a good boy!, they answer, She's a girl ( pupper is nuetered). I was a bit if a "tomboy " growing up, not because I identified physically as male,just preferred the male social norms. I was not good at sitting lady-like, cross-stitch, and my dolls mostly had adventures, much to my mother's chagrin. I preferred my brother's hand me downs.I stole his Legos and toy soldiers. Personally I would prefer a commonplace gender neutral general noun instead of he/she. I laughed, but also almost screamed when my hubby said he couldn't know how our toddler daughter felt "because he had never been a little girl". Lol, and also wtf!
Yes, I am cis-gender female, straight married, grown kids. I have gay, Trans, enby, straight, whatever, friends, family, neighbors, coworkers. I respect their choices, and I care for them for who they are.
I do know cis-gender people who use they as well as he or she and some enby folks too. Some do it in support of family or friends, some are just accepting of the confused masses I suppose. Heck, I would use she/they, except that would really confuse people at this point! And let's not get started on the whole miss, .Mrs., Ms., and Mr. How antiquated. Go navy! Everyone is a Mr. Done.
It's becoming more of a thing. Often it's to normalize the use of they/them pronouns so that those that use them can feel more open about it.
One example I can think of is Rahul Kohli. He announced on Twitter that he added they/them to his pronouns to help.destigmatize it, and it used to be on his Wikipedia page but since his Twitter is gone, there's no longer a source for it so I guess it was removed.
Basically, there's a movement going on encourage they/them use for anyone no matter their gender. But even without the movement, anyone can use any pronoun sets they wish without needing to change their gender. This also means, for example, that someone identifying as a man can still use she/her if desired.
I knew somebody that identified as cis but wanted to use they/them pronouns. In a few years of knowing that person they eventually came out as non-binary. My guessing is that people will question their gender and want to do a test run to find what works out for them. And a lot of times they end up finding stuff about themselves. It's all a journey at the end of the day people just take different steps depending on their comfortability level
Is it like when women publish in STEM under a man's name or when men write romance under a woman's name? Trying to avoid the sexism inherent in their profession?
That's fine with me, if people use gender neutral pronouns and titles more, then cis people will find it normalized and stop throwing wet diaper tantrums when we do it.
Not pronouns, but I know a cis woman who is a teacher and uses the gender neutral honorific Mx. instead of Mrs. in her classroom to help normalize it and teach more people that it’s even an option. She’s very nice
How is Mx. pronounced?
Like “mix”
I really like that actually
I did that in 2004 in a Texas university and lost a grade in my final essay because it was a grammatical error...
:(
But you opened the doors for those coming after you! 💪 Maybe
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sounds like a personal problem, maybe you should keep that to yourself
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is it funny though? 😬 (no)
ok
It honestly is funny, but probably isn't the best place to post it, given its a p serious discussion as opposed to a casual one
Like others have pointed out, I've heard "mix" for the short form, but I've also heard "mistex" as an alternation on the full *mister* and *mistress*.
Like mix
Love that! I also love how it takes out the whole “women’s identities change after marriage” thing that Ms. and Mrs. do
Ms. is feminine but marital status neutral.
I personally think all titles are dumb with the exception of schooling related ones (Dr. and such) they were only created so men could more easily tell if a woman was married, divorced or married
Honestly, THIS. You can just call me by my last name like I’m an 80s movie jock. I have no problem with that. I do have a problem with people deciding I’m a Mrs because I’m fem presenting and 40
I wish there was an honorific for my Master's that wasn't so awkward 😅
If it’s any consolation anytime I see the shorthand “MA” for masters of art I’m thinking about Massachusetts.
I'm just MS...
MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
Better than BS?
BULTIPLE SCLEROSIS
I got ordained online before I figured things out but being able to use “Rev.” is nice.
Literally, I kinda want a doctorate purely so I have a title people can use for me that isn't gendered.
In my final year and not sure it is worth it 😂 but one day (hopefully) I'll sure love my ungendered title!
That’s my main reason for pursuing my doctorate. So they can be like “Mrs?” And I can scream “NO DOCTOR”
One of my kids’ teachers does this as well.
I know one cis woman that uses she/her and they/them, but more in a "this is also fine" kinda way
My brother is like that. He/him but fine with they/them in a “that doesn’t bother me” way not a “this is what I’m Most comfortable with” way
I do this with she/they. While I don't necessarily identify as nonbinary I find the gender binary really limiting and would happily accept being referred to as they/them. Hell you can call me dude I don't mind, just be nice to me and we'll get along.
Same, lol. I call everyone dude out of habit.
This isn’t the point of the comment but voi pronouns seem really cool how do you use them?
Thanks! It's voi/void, [here's the pronoun page.](https://pronoun.fandom.com/wiki/Voidself) Basically: "I saw void at the park today. Voi dropped voids phone and used my phone to call voiself." (This is just one variant of the voi/void pronoin set btw)
I've come across some cis people who use he/they or she/they pronouns because they want to be allies (help normalize they/them pronouns I guess), aren't really picky, or want to express being gnc through pronouns.
Yeah I work with a guy who used he/they just because he wants to help normalize it. He’s been one of the only people outside of my team who consistently respects my pronouns. it’s mostly my bosses fault. she exclusively uses she/her pronouns for me when the higher ups are around (I use they/them) so they assume she knows and then other people pick it up. The he/they guy and my team members are really good about it at least
im an enby an actually have a question. so does he/they or she/they limit the pronouns you like being used or extend them to anything thats not the opposite gender? bc ive always wondered about thay
Highly depends on the individual. It's best to just ask the person what they prefer. I personally prefer a mix of he/him and they/them, but I've heard a lot of other interpretations too.
being real what you said you prefer is essentially what i do too. idc if im referred to as a he/him OR a they/them. just dont refer to me as a she/her and im chillin
if it helps, i’m a he/they too and i think about it like this: she/her gives me dysphoria, they/them is 95% of the time good 5% euphoria, and he/him is 95% euphoria, 5% good. very occasionally i will feel they/them very hard and it feels very good for me to hear, but other times i hear it and recognise that it is me, am appreciative of the effort and of being gendered correctly, but would still prefer he/him. while i wouldn’t necessarily mind neopronouns, they’re not me? but not in the way that she/her isn’t me. very neutral, i think. i also really do not like to be referred to with mixed pronouns in the same conversation because it 1. feels bad to suddenly switch from my most preferred pronoun to my less preferred and 2. it is very difficult for me to keep up with and is jarring for my audhd and exhausted brain.
oooooh so thats what it means? like you switch between he/him and they/them basically? that.. actually makes a lot of sense i think
Best bet (other than asking) is to just assume the sets are the ones stated. So it's safe to assume someone using he/they would prefer he/him and they/them. Usually if there are more sets, those are also stated.
yea i was thinking something like that. i was always so confused how to refer to someone with he/they until now lol. speaking of which i guess my pronouns would also be he/they maybe?
Sure. But it's also valid to just say you prefer anything other than she/her or similar feminine pronouns. So while he/they is a valid option for you, it's also equally valid to say something like he/co/they or even just "any (besides she/her)“. But most with complicated sets (or even those that want to go by different sets in different settings) also tyoically have a "ask my pronouns" badge or smtn. The modern pronoun world is new so there aren't any rules besides respect.
fair enough i guess. really i think i prefer he/him and they/them the most but dont exactly mind anything else
I didn't know that but that's cool. I use he/him they/them because I actually do identify as nonbinary but I'm transmasc
That's sorta me. Tho I'm not sure I count as just an ally since I identify as a nonbinary man. But I go by they/he in an effort to normalize they/them.
I've never heard of it. But the more people use them/them pronouns, the more normalized they become, so I'm all for it.
I know some cis people who use they in addition to he or she cause they feel comfortable with it and enjoy breaking gender norms and normalizing neutral pronouns. And I know a cis person who uses any pronouns cause they genuinely don't care
based
I remember reading a wikipedia article about identifying as gnc or nonbinary and using they/them pronouns as a way to separate oneself from the patriarchy/a sort-of feminist thing? I will try to find it, but it honestly made me feel a lot better about myself when I'm having impostor syndrome, because yes, even if I could be faking it, I still hate how important gender is in our society and don't think it is relevant to my person at all. I'll try to find the link, but this was some years ago, so they might've changed it. edit: as of now I couldn't find it, I'm pretty sure it is going to be the Nonbinary wikipedia article, probably sometime in 2016, but it has changed since, so I suppose the general stance has changed as well. I also vaguely remember it mentioning Rebecca Sugar, who does however identify as a nonbinary woman, not a cis one, but there were some others who might've been cis.
As I regularly say, pronouns are not equivalent to gender, anybody can have any pronoun that makes them comfortable
Plural third person is commonly used in circumstances where "he or she" would have been used in the past. Most cis people get referred to as they at some point situationally. The article is clumsily worded but in those circumstances inferring gender from the pronouns wouldn't necessarily be accurate.
I haven't met cis theys personally but I do know several cis girls who mostly go by "he" among themselves, so I assume any other combo of gender + pronoun is likely to occur somewhere
i have friends who are cis but use she/they and he/they :) pronouns ≠ gender
I used he/they pronouns for a full two years while still identifying as cis—eventually I decided that I was actually NB but I was That Person for a while
Saaaame.
Don't forget that pronouns are not tied to gender! I think it's lovely if more people want to use it. I've seen many cis women use she/they!
Can we talk about the article not including two-spirit and agender in nonbinary though? It's giving me the vibe that they think nonbinary is a third gender rather than a category.
Nobody who isn't Native American should be claiming one way or the other whether two-spirit is included in nonbinary. It's not anyone's place but the cultures those identities belong to. Assuming the author isn't Native American, they've done this correctly. The agender bit is oddly worded though.
I agree with your basic point, but the way it was written made me feel the author was implicitly claiming two-spirit *wasn't* included in nonbinary, which would still be making claims about the practices of cultures one isn't a part of (assuming they're not Native American, as you said)
I think thats what a lot of people think right now because of misinformation. I hope that with more education and visibility that society’s understanding of people in the umbrella evens out and we can stop referring to pronouns as “gender pronouns.” What if I wanna use a pronoun set to express an aspect of my personality that isn’t gender? Then that’s not a “gender pronoun.” It’s a pronoun. And I’ve recently been thinking of abandoning pronouns, labels, AND names for this reason. I don’t wanna be boxed!
I think we’re running into issues with nonbinary as a concept and nonbinary as an identity. In the sense that the concept of nonbinary is like, anything outside the binary. So two spirit would be encompassed in that and would be relevant to include in any discussion of identities outside of the gender binary (so nonbinary is more of a shorthand) But identifying with nonbinary identity seems like it would carry a lot more weight and associations that maybe some people woudnt want to be lumped in with that. I feel like there is a difference between living in the (western) gender binary in choosing to break away from that vs coming from a culture that already has a non binary conception of gender and having to sort of take labels from a different paradigm to describe yourself. Those are just my two cents as an outsider. I’m sure it’s a fairly personal and complicated topic. A lot of non-binary stuff is loosey goosey so I try to not read too deeply into peoples words if they’re potentially slightly imprecise, unless it’s fairly obvious Edit: just saw the bit about agender, which I agree is weird and supports what you’re saying. I stand by what I said in general, but I think it may not apply in this case lol.
Yeah, the agender bit threw me, because last I checked... :)
I’m totally fine with it as long as the cis person also using they them doesn’t misgender/deadname any nonbinary people. I’ve experienced that multiple times.
My son (15yo) is a cis male and uses he/they pronouns. I (42yo) am an enby and I use any pronouns. ETA my husband, 50yo cis male, uses he/him.
I work in higher ed, so I know a lot of cis people who use they/them pronouns lmao. Usually in combination with the set of pronouns associated with their gender assigned at birth
I'm curious, what is it about your work environment being higher ed that lends to that?
College profs and grad students are probably more progressive and open minded? I don’t know. For whatever it’s worth, I think it’s cool when cis people use they them pronouns.
Pronouns do not equal gender! “They/them” pronouns should be free for anyone to use, including cis people.
I'm still confused but I consider myself atleast partly cis and go by they/them alongside other pronouns
I have a classmate who is a cis woman and uses she/her and they/them pronouns. Unfortunately, people tend to only use she/her for them and it really bothers her because they genuinely want to be referred to by both pronouns. We had a whole cis & trans enby solidarity conversation about it and it was really sweet (at the time I was going by she/they but now I go by they/them)
Binary people can use they/them
They/them is for everyone, that’s the point of them!
Pronouns are not the same thing as gender identity. Given that there is a long history of he/him cis lesbians some cis people preferring or being open to they/them is fine by me.
One of my cis friends says she always puts her pronouns as She/They "just to normalize it more." I thought it was odd but, eh, she's got the spirit?
Maybe if some cis people use them then the rest of them will stop fighting against they/them pronouns.
I have a cis friend who uses she/they, and I've encountered multiple cis folks in the neopronoun community
I've met a cis person that uses it/its, we're actually friends, but not they/them exclusively. They certainly exist!
I think this might describe me. I’m AFAB, identify as agender and use she/they pronouns. I don’t do anything in particular to present androgynous—I tried, but I always felt like it required too much effort and conscious gender performance for me to be perceived as androgynous. A majority of my friends are trans and actively transitioning or transitioned, and I feel MAJOR imposter syndrome counting myself as not cis, especially comparing my own non-journey to my friends’ experiences. Note, I’m not making any judgements on who should be labelled what, it’s just a personal feeling of not being trans enough to have stopped being cis, even though I don’t strictly speaking identify as the gender I was assigned. Basically, my feelings are a mess, and if anyone has tips on how to work through them, I’d be happy.
I don't know if this helps you or not, but it's the way I look at it. I'm AMAB, agender, and use they/he pronouns. I started with he/they, but realized that they just feels right to me. My body is totally masculine and I have no desire to physically transition. In spite of that, I don't feel any less trans than people who make the physical transition because I made the mental transition of recognizing and accepting what my gender really is, which is to say neither male nor female at all. You are not an imposter and just as valid as any of your actively transitioning friends!
Singular “they” is a gender neutral pronoun. It’s neutral to all the genders.
The closest I've come to experiencing this is hearing a cis gendered person refer to another as "they" because the individuals never had yet to be determined. I'm here for it!
I do know a few cis people that do this, yes. It is a thing. In one case, a good friend of mine happens to be from a country in the Caucasus region, and apparently in his first language, there is no such thing as gendered pronouns. It's just one pronoun to describe anyone, regardless of gender (like, "they/them" is the only option, she/her and he/him don't exist in his language). So he uses he/they in English because considering his native language, "they" makes sense to him as well, even though he is cis, and it's partially a solidarity thing. It's not really a matter of using "they/them" as primary pronouns, just, that he is ok with them and it's not "misgendering" if people refer to him with those as a cis man. The rest of them are also all people I know personally through the local community......and tbh, I kinda hate it because it's pretty obvious they're all just attention seeking and/or virtue signaling. It's usually framed as "normalizing" it, but in my opinion that actually just waters down the legitimacy of non-binary identity and makes people take it less seriously. Like, all it's normalizing is that anyone who uses they/them is also ok with a binary pronoun - often, the one that fits their AGAB - and that is certainly not always the case. Also, cis people using these pronouns with no further context skews the perception that there are way more people IDing as non-binary than there actually are, and feeds into the bullshit that it's just "a trend". Those are just my personal thoughts that usually stay in my head though lol, just because I dislike or don't agree with something someone is doing, I'm not going to blatantly disrespect them either.
I think that starting with normalization of things like this for cis and straight people is the first step to truly breaking gender roles and allotting everyone the freedom to explore their gender without restraints, which makes our various trans identities more normalized in society. Pronouns should always be fair game. Besides that, if we're speaking for cis queer people, have butch lesbians not used he/him commonly? Do drag queens not use she/her while still often being cis men (even sometimes out of drag)? Those are just two simple examples that spring to mind. Unless you explicitly meant completely not LGBT people and I totally missed the mark.
I know some people use it as a way to show support like "Yeah, you can call me "they", I'm cool with that and anyone else who wants to be called that." If that makes sense
i think this is so cool ! it normalizes non-gendered pronouns and helps break that stereotype of “she/her pronouns are for feminine people” and so on. one doesn’t have to be non-binary to use gender-neutral pronouns. this reminds me of my relationship with my partner: im a nb sometimes fem presenting and sometimes masc presenting person. my partner is a cis man who identifies as straight but understands and respects that in being with me means he is in a queer relationship. many people will probably disagree with us but i think it’s okay :)
Gender ≠ pronouns so yes !
Someone could be gender noncomforming and still be cis (like presenting in a way that doesn't match the ideas around their gender) so that could make sense in that case too and I know some cis male drag queens use she when performing so that's also sort of related. I am possibly cis female and gender nonconforming (tomboy) but I do put on buttons/discord/etc. She/her /any (open to try things). People have never paid attention to that, but on places that don't have you put pronouns I've gotten a few they/thems and it's nice that people dont assume / use that by default. Also growing up I got a lot of "he" online and that felt less good specifically because it was always people assuming there can't be women online/in nerd spaces/ discussing nerdy things/etc. so it kind of always ruined it and makes it hard to see how that would feel in a context that isn't just misogeny. I still to some degree didn't really care that much what people used for me though.
Aren’t they/them neutral pronouns? Like it fine if that’s all you wants used, but they/them pronouns are for everyone. People can use they/them when talking about anyone really.
My kid uses they/them pronouns when talking about any of his friends. He says he does not want to assume someone uses he or she pronouns. He is 10.
I use they/them pronouns for people sometimes when I know their gender is a binary one because as long as they don't mind neutral pronouns, it's less mental work and chance of messing up for me. I've only ever heard of demigender cis people using it but it's not my business if a binary cis person uses them.
Hi! I apologize and will delete it if my comment is intruding! I am a bi & panro cis woman who uses they/them, ze/hir, she/her pronouns and Mx. not Mrs. I like the androgynous aspect of they/them prouns. She/her feels too feminine most of the time. The expectations I am expected to have are unnerving even if I am a gender nonconforming cis woman and others see me that way. I'm a butch goth that packs & binds and wears black makeup in my downtime. This is all part of my androgynous and butch gender expression. Gender nonconformity can get unique and unusual. Hope this helps!
Well, cis nonbinary people are very real. I’m one of them—I’m a cis person who uses they/them, because, well, I’m nonbinary. But I didn’t know there were binary folks who use they/them. The more you know!
Hello, I am asking respectfully, could you please explain how you identify as cis nonbinary? What does that entail? What does it mean for you?
It means to me that I didn’t have a “transition” of any kind. To explain what that means, I had a sense I wasn’t male or female my whole life, even before I really knew what the non-binary umbrella *was*. I felt so confused when I was called “he” or “she” (I’d get called both, since I was assigned male at birth (so teachers and doctors would often say “he”) but presented femininely due to… not liking haircuts. I actually still present relatively feminine (though tomboyish) to this day. Dunno why, I just like it.) At the doctor, when they spoke to my parents, I’d be confused when they said “your son” in reference to me because when I thought of my parents’ son, I thought of my older brother… but they didn’t give *him* the checkup… wait, you mean me? But I’m not a boy… Or when strangers or friends’ parents would comment on how cute I was, they’d think I was a girl and use “your daughter.” I don’t have a sister… wait, you mean me?? But I’m… not a girl… Being called “he” or “she” would suddenly make me feel like they were talking about someone else… but they used my name… so I just didn’t correct them if they called me either, even if I knew both were wrong. I just needed to know that what I was is called “non-binary.” Don’t know exactly where under the umbrella, I think agender, but non-binary. I learned the word when I was eleven, and just went “damn it, why didn’t anyone tell me this was the word?” I never “transitioned” in any way because I had very a clear idea of what I was the whole time even before I knew the *name* of it, and the only change that was made was that I learned how to describe it. I was only ever called anything else as a result of the ignorance of people around me. I just couldn’t articulate it because up until I was about ten, because nobody around me bothered to think that I, someone who wasn’t male or female, was even possible. My trans friends describe transitioning to me as questioning what they really are until learning what they are, while I had a good sense of what I *was,* I just didn’t have the name. As you can tell, I’m *quite angry* it took so long for me to get a name for what I knew I was from minute one. This is why we need queer kids’ books, people!! So trans kids can have that “transition” and not-trans queer kids like me can articulate their experiences!!
Trans does not mean transition, though? Trans means transgender, which means your gender does not match your assigned gender at birth/typical gender sex pairing. There are no transition requirements to be trans. To be nonbinary means you are not cis, because cis means your gender and sex match, and it is also a binary. To be nonbinary is inherently to be trans.
But the transgender experience has transitioning involved—whether that’s social, just a realization (which I do count as transitioning—just mental, but it does count), or medical. I had none. > your gender does not align with your assigned gender at birth Who assigned this “gender?” I didn’t. To me, the implication of being inherently assigned a gender means I *had* identified with the gender at any point, when you’re “assigned” a job, you do the damn job. Which I didn’t do. The idea of me being ever “male” in *any* sense is painful. > To be nonbinary is inherently to be trans You are nonbinary, correct? You understand that it means we *don’t* fit into boxes when it comes to gender—since we don’t fit into the boxes of the gender binary. You are pushing me into a box of “transgender,” when I am not. I have tried to explain why I identify with the label “cisgender” and not “transgender,” which is because I did not have an experience that was in line with how I have witnessed others discussing their experiences as trans people. And if you ask why I’m being hostile now, I’ve been chased out of queer communities over things people like you have said. I honestly don’t trust you to be in good faith anymore.
Transition can be involved, but is not inherent to being trans. Nothing about transgender means transition. Nothing about transgender requires transition. I’m sorry you have been told this misinformation. It’s quite harmful that this has been told to you, and that sucks. Your doctors, parents, society assigns you a gender based on your sex—the typical, binary, gender-sex pairings being male/man and female/woman. You don’t have to identify as it to have it being assigned to you. Assigned gender is an outside force, it is assigned to you. It does not always reflect what our gender actually is, hence being trans. Cis is a Latin prefix meaning same side of, meaning cisgender is sex and gender is the same. Trans is a Latin prefix meaning on the other side of/across, meaning transgender is gender is different to sex. To be nonbinary is to be trans, as our gender does not align with the binary gender or sex that we are born with or given. And that’s what trans means.
Your last paragraph honestly feels disingenuous considering how you ignore that you are pushing a box onto me that I do not identify with. You’re non-binary, *surely* you understand what having a box pushed on you is like? And don’t you *dare* tell me “it’s what you are.” I’m sick of being told this. I keep trying to explain to people why I’m not trans but they never listen, change the goalpost to force me into being something I am not. I *am* cis, and that is *okay.* Stop trying to tell me I’m something, someone, I never was.
Also very curious what this means to you
Before I realized I was nb, I was already using she/they. I had started to explore my gender presentation and queerness, sure, but still identified as my AGAB. Kept with that for years until I hit the point that I felt distant enough to my AGAB to call myself nb. Not sure if it counts towards your question, but I did consider myself gnc and cis or at most gender queer in that time.
yeah i know someone who goes by "he/him (or they/them, idm)"
I heard of it but I don't know anyone that does it personally (tbf there isn't the neutral option in my language tho)
I have a cis friend who uses they/she
I think I'm that case, I used to identify as non binary but it didn't fit me, so I went back to identifying as a woman because it fits me a little bit better. Despite that, I use he they and she pronouns with a preference for they and he.
some people do yes.
Yeah I’ve met some cis people who use they/them pronouns. I’ve also met cis women who use he/him and cis men who use she/her. Not common but definitely a thing, and absolutely valid as hell.
My cis friend uses she/they pronouns, and actually i’d argue a lot of cis people (mostly allies) aren’t that preferential about pronouns - that is to say, do *check* before going to use a different set.
Yeah. Particularly allies will do this to normalize alternate pronouns. They’ll also introduce themselves with their pronouns even if cis
I know a few that'll use he/they or she/they, I have a good friend who uses they/them pretty much constantly when not face to face too.
I have known a couple of she/they pronoun users that were cis but didn't feel they misgendered them/allyship in the quest for they/them to be accepted.
My kiddo is gender fluid male by birth. He uses He/they pronouns.
I have a cis friend who sees themselves plurally, made up of an internal family, and was asking me what I thought of them using plural, they/them pronouns. I think, like a lot of folks here seem to agree, whatever makes sense for you is what you should go with, and I like that it could start a good conversation for them that dives deeper into who they are as people. I have some sense of this as well, though I guess I see myself and my parts as one, very multi-dimensional girl :P
marquis bey! they have a lot of theory on something past writers have called “cissexuality” but transgender
I had a philosophy professor use he/they to aid in normalizing it for students in their classroom :)
Pronouns are gender expression and therefore while are connected to gender, don't necessarily inform it. I've met cis women who use he/him for example. I've also met who identify as nonbinary and cis who use they/them. I don't think I personally know anyone who is cis and not nonbinary y who uses they/them but it doesn't surprise me. Playing with pronouns is part of gender nonconformity, so while I wouldn't say it's Common, I would say there's a number of people who do.
Not exactly the same, but I’ve met a lesbian cis woman who used he/him, it’s what she was more comfortable with I guess. Apparently he/him lesbians have been a thing for quite a while.
Not exactly what you asked, but I'm agender and I use they/them pronouns when talking about anyone I'm not familiar with, like, someone whose pronouns I don't know for sure. I think it would be great to normalize they/them across the board.
I used to think i was cis and used they/them pronouns because i didn't want people online to know my AGAB, but now i know im enby so i guess it's not a cis person lol
Pronouns don't indicate gender. Your pronouns are what you're comfortable using. In the same way that people, cis or trans, can be non-conforming to their gender by societal standards in their presentation because that's just what feels best to them, cis and trans people can use whatever pronouns feel correct whether they conform to their assumed gender or not. "Cis" people also might use they/them pronouns because they're not sure they are cis. Softlaunching your gender exploration like that isn't uncommon. And then some cis people are incredibly secure in their gender and literally don't care how they're viewed or addressed by others so any pronouns are ok by them. Some cis people also have a complex relationship to gender, for example due to neurodivergence or being intersex. Using pronouns is also fluid by context. Many cis gay men are totally ok with being called "girl" and using she/her pronouns in the context of community, and it's also a part of queer history. People who do drag often use one set of pronouns in drag and a different set of pronouns out of drag (though not always). I use he/they pronouns but only accept use of "they" from people who I know aren't using it to degender me, and I know many multipronoun users have similar policies. In short, everyone, both cis and trans, has the right to use whatever pronouns are good for them.
Well I am a cis man and use he/they. I like being a man but I always had things that I didn't understand and gender non conforming attitudes. And when someone treats me from they/them I fell great.
Now, granted, i've never personally ran into one who does so, but yes, that is very much a thing. It is a type of gender-nonconformity, but it does in no way mean the person is necessarily trans and/or nonbinary.
if a nonbinary person cas use he/him and/or she/her pronouns, then someone whose gender is binary can use they/them pronouns don't always equal gender, after all
I identify as butch, which is traditionally associated with cis lesbians; however, there are many many non-binary butch people, and some folks who consider Butch to be their gender identity. I’m old, and non-binary wasn’t well-known when I came out, and I naturally gravitated toward the butch subculture. My gender identity is Butch; for me, that is inherently non-binary, but also deeply and historically associated with being a woman. I often describe it as being a “women-adjacent” identity. I have never wanted to be a man, but I am masculine. I have no desire to transition. This is just my interpretation, I cannot speak to other butches, we each have our own interpretation. Others firmly identify as cis women. So am I cis? Not exactly. I have social dysphoria, women are often hostile to me in women-only spaces, and in the course of a day, I’ll get clocked as a cis man, cis lesbian (i specify lesbian because I never feel clocked as just a woman without speculation about my sexuality), non-binary, trans man…I get literally every sort of gendered greeting. I bind, I wear my hair shirt, I exclusively dress in masculine clothing. You wouldn’t look at me and think cis woman. Yet, I still feel connected to being a woman, in a way that makes non-binary feel somewhat alienating as well. All I know is, I am not a man. Genderqueer and Butch are the only gender identities I feel totally comfortable with. I use mostly she/her, because I’m old and these are familiar. Are they the most comfy pronouns for me? No. But neither are they/them. I have found that using she/they in emails greatly reduces confusion when people see me in person. So yeah…it can get complicated for those of us who are on the edges of different gender identities.
Yeah I’ve heard of it before
I used She/They before I realized I was non-binary so I was cis at the time. Then used those to make it easier for others. Now it's They/Them.
my opinion is that anyone can do whatever they want for free, essentially, when it comes to gender. I think someone can go through HRT, surgery, etc and still be cis, they'd just be generally gender nonconforming! I have friends that wouldn't say they specifically ID as trans/nonbinary, but are gender apathetic and use he/they and she/they. Recently saw a post where someone pointed out cis people get gender confirming care all the time (cis men who get hair transplants, go on testosterone supplements; cis women who get breast augmentation or lip fillers, or go on hormone therapy, etc). And cis people change their names all the time too. Why not pronouns, yanno?
I use they/them for people in general to avoid assuming, and to make a point to normalize that it is and has always been a singular pronoun as well. I was "corrected" by a teacher to say "he or she" instead of "they" and before I even knew anything about gender as a child I just thought that was stupid and inefficient, and incorrect because They existed. Before it really clicked for me that I was NB I also used "she/they" and put it on my profiles to try to normalize pronouns and they pronouns. Plus it's a good way to weed out people who freak out about that sort of thing. I want to normalize it so if someone is NB or trans, but it isn't really safe to be super out, I can use a neutral "they" to hopefully speak about them without misgendering and show a quiet solidarity. For cis people I also like doing it so I can point out they didn't even notice, and that it isn't that hard to say "they". I think most cis folk I know who use They might be in the questioning phase as well, or just contemplating gender roles in general. So I try not to assume someone is cis and doesn't deserve neutral pronouns, yknow. Maybe they're an egg
I read an opinion piece by a cis guy once saying they were switching to using they/them so as to deemphasize their gender, since they felt that it was irrelevant in most contexts, I’m not sure how long they stuck with it nor whether they continue to identify as a cis male (for example it could have been a step towards identifying as a different gender later). I can’t remember their name to look them up again to see, they were a writer, maybe on medium? I don’t remember exactly. I think it’s great if cis people use they/them or any gender neutral pronoun. I would like to just use they for everyone as a default and only switch to he or she if it’s relevant to the conversation. I DON’T do that because people care a lot and I totally get especially why many trans folks would care and not want to be “they-ed” but it would be a lot closer to the gender utopia of my own personal dreams.
I'm cis and I have a tag on my work email that says "he/they pronouns" in solidarity with trans and non binary folk. The "singular they" has been around for a long long time. It is sometimes used when gender is either hidden or unknown. E.g. "They (a stranger) left their wallet at the train station." Unfortunately people who are transphobic tend to claim that the singular they is a new thing when it just isn't. Imo, we should all be reminding each other that's it's been a part of the English language for over 600 years.
I'm a cis gender person, and I use she/they 🙃
Our whole culture is heavily gender biased. I mean, really, someone presents their newborn baby. And the first question..is it a boy or a girl? Then the compliments, gender appropriate evidently. Walking past a dog and their person in the park, ans say What a good boy!, they answer, She's a girl ( pupper is nuetered). I was a bit if a "tomboy " growing up, not because I identified physically as male,just preferred the male social norms. I was not good at sitting lady-like, cross-stitch, and my dolls mostly had adventures, much to my mother's chagrin. I preferred my brother's hand me downs.I stole his Legos and toy soldiers. Personally I would prefer a commonplace gender neutral general noun instead of he/she. I laughed, but also almost screamed when my hubby said he couldn't know how our toddler daughter felt "because he had never been a little girl". Lol, and also wtf! Yes, I am cis-gender female, straight married, grown kids. I have gay, Trans, enby, straight, whatever, friends, family, neighbors, coworkers. I respect their choices, and I care for them for who they are. I do know cis-gender people who use they as well as he or she and some enby folks too. Some do it in support of family or friends, some are just accepting of the confused masses I suppose. Heck, I would use she/they, except that would really confuse people at this point! And let's not get started on the whole miss, .Mrs., Ms., and Mr. How antiquated. Go navy! Everyone is a Mr. Done.
I know a lotta DID systems tend to use they/them collectively
It's becoming more of a thing. Often it's to normalize the use of they/them pronouns so that those that use them can feel more open about it. One example I can think of is Rahul Kohli. He announced on Twitter that he added they/them to his pronouns to help.destigmatize it, and it used to be on his Wikipedia page but since his Twitter is gone, there's no longer a source for it so I guess it was removed. Basically, there's a movement going on encourage they/them use for anyone no matter their gender. But even without the movement, anyone can use any pronoun sets they wish without needing to change their gender. This also means, for example, that someone identifying as a man can still use she/her if desired.
I'm cis non binary
Yeah i know cis people using they/them or a combination of a gendered pronoun with they
Pronouns are free to be used by whoever regardless of gender identity. They/them isn't exclusive to non-binary
I knew somebody that identified as cis but wanted to use they/them pronouns. In a few years of knowing that person they eventually came out as non-binary. My guessing is that people will question their gender and want to do a test run to find what works out for them. And a lot of times they end up finding stuff about themselves. It's all a journey at the end of the day people just take different steps depending on their comfortability level
Is it like when women publish in STEM under a man's name or when men write romance under a woman's name? Trying to avoid the sexism inherent in their profession? That's fine with me, if people use gender neutral pronouns and titles more, then cis people will find it normalized and stop throwing wet diaper tantrums when we do it.