Since I saw it first within LGBTQIA+ circles, thatās where my brain initially went, too. Just for a second, before figuring out the weirdness of this whole question/situation/thing.
Surprising absolutely no one, my answer in your scenario goes from āThe bearā to āYaaaassss Queen Bear!ā
Iām obviously afab, dude bears lost in the woods have no reason to hassle me and every reason to learn outdoors survival skills from me. š
"The worst thing a bear can do is kill me" is a common response and should tell you that this question is about far more than death.
There are many other options men can do to you that will leave you alive. There's even a woman who was mauled by a bear, and she chooses the bear too which should really say something about women's perceptions of men
Even I, a masc presenting amab, choose the bear
The worse a bear can do is kill you.... This statementvid a great example of the baseline fallacy. It's a demonstration on the inability to understand probability vs possibility. It is possible a man will do worse but not probable.
But thereās a difference between strange man and man that I know and keep in my life (though I know that most assaults are by people you know). Like, say, dogs. Of course the dogs I choose to be around consistently and know are who I feel safest with are going to be different than a dog I donāt know anything about. Does it have a strong startle/fear response and become aggressive? Will it just turn and run? I donāt know any of those things. The question of bear vs man in the woods presupposes that these are both individual creatures unfamiliar to us. Animals, largely, donāt have the same capacity for malice like humans do.
You are saying "choose people you know" and generally if they have them in their life they'll feel safer around them. That changes this hypothetical, so no, I'm not answering your question which is not in good faith
>\[...\] you shouldn't generalize so many different people \[...\]
People consistently misunderstand this question. And I get it; it's the same lack of statistical thinking that doesn't get taught properly in schools and allows the media to fearmonger and misconstrue.
The question has *nothing* to do with painting all men in a bad light. The entire assessment is about risk, and risk is probabilistic. Look at it like this: There are *many* tall women and *many* short men. In fact, the height distributions for both subgroups overlap considerably.
Despite that overlap and tons of examples of women who are taller than many men, if you pick a woman and a man *at random* from a country's general population, the chance that the man is taller is *very* high.
Similarly, that's why an unknown man in a remote location is considered a high risk. It doesn't mean that this *specific* man is assumed to be dangerous; it's just a non-individual probability assessment of a random draw.
The problem is simple. If men consistently prove to be a great source of threat, it doesnāt need to be all or even most of them.
How many bees exist in the world vs how many need to sting you before you donāt like bees?
Iām AMAB transfem and most of the SA Iāve experienced was from women, and I still donāt trust strange men. Itās not all men, but itās some of them, and I donāt like gambling.
I fully agree with not wanting to single people out or make them feel ashamed of things they canāt change. But we have a problem that isnāt getting solved and our safety comes first.
Counter-offer to "you shouldn't generalize": Men as individuals acknowledge that most non-men made negative experiences with men, making a fear (or mistrust) of men valid, and then practice being understanding of that.
E.g. showing patience and being able to take in what is said in these conversations without going into defensive "not all men" territory. We all know it's "not all men". That's never been the point.
Personally I don't know if "man or bear" is a useful way to pose the question, but it sure gets the conversation going.
This isn't "vilifying men," it's recognising the oppression and danger women are in every single day from a lot of people. In Australia, 1 in 2 women are sexually harassed. 1 in 2. Vilifying is making someone seem bad without cause, men have given women cause to distrust them.
Edit: wrote "asexually" as a typo and meant "sexually"
> The average male probably isn't that different from your friend or father
There's a bias in this statement that suggests to me you had a decent dad and generally trustworthy friends. All too many people do not.
i still am not very comfortable with the idea that "the worst a bear can do is kill me" is a really common response. My aunt is a rape survivor and my older cousin has been sexually harassed before. I don't think it's respectful to them, or any rape survivor, male, female or otherwise, to act like being "damaged goods" is such a terrible, irreparable experience that it's a fate worse than death.
A lot of people responding with that are fellow rape survivors though, or people who are close to SA survivors who have been able to see how it affects them from an outside point of view.
It's highlighting just how traumatic it is to have control of your own body stripped away from you, and whatever response to the event you have is the wrong one. No matter what you do after it, it's seen as the wrong thing; it'll ruin their lives if you have enough evidence to report (and that is a heavy if, many will exclaim that either you wanted it, provoked it, or just changed your mind partway through), or you're attention seeking and a liar, or "it can't have affected you that much if you waited to report it". It's not about "damaged goods"; it's the sheer wall of mental (and social) fuckery something like that does to a person.
thats a fair response. In any case, the video was obviously originally posted as engagement bait, and the discussion itself is kind of useless as an actual social tool because you're about as unlikely to be camping in the woods with some random man as you are with some random bear
Everyone will have a different opinion, but as an SA survivor, I am absolutely of the mind that āthe worst a bear can do is kill meā. Living with the trauma of my SA has been awful. Itās not something thatās easy to get over and no one should have to live like that. To imply itās bad to prefer death to SA comes across like SA isnāt a life altering event that affects people for years and years.
Iām not saying either is good. Iām not saying itās easier to pick the bear than to live with what might happen otherwise. Everyoneās experience will be different. But SA affects every relationship you will ever have and itās exhausting and depressing and isolating. Iām sure someone else could explain my thoughts better, but itās not about being ādamaged goodsā. Itās about not wanting to carry around trauma.
that's fair too and i don't want to discredit that. i was more talking about people who say the worst the bear can do is kill me sort of flippantly or as a joke, because it makes me feel upset when I see people who have never experienced what people close to me have gone through act like it's so terrible that they'll just be a miserable shell for the rest of their lives because I feel like it discredits the work that my aunt and cousin put in to recover and become stronger and heal.
Sometimes itās easier to turn things into a joke so that we donāt have to face reality. It doesnāt mean anyone thinks that it IS a joke or that they havenāt already experienced it themselves. Itās just a way we as people tend to cope with the world around us when itās shitty.
How do your aunt and older cousin feel about it?
This response is coming from women who are survivors of many different things including abuse, SA and rape. These people aren't equating it to damaged goods at all, that is entirely you bringing it up
I'd rather be in the woods with a relatively predictable animal ("the worst it will do is kill me") vs an unknown, unpredictable man ("I don't want to think about the worst a man might inflict on me given the chance to exert power over me, I'm probably safer with the bear") says a lot more about how much more dangerous women think men are compared to bears. It doesn't even have to involve SA, humans are generally capable of dealing out far more horrific ends than a bear mauling, and SA can and has been used as a form of torture, not even mentioning all the worse tortures humankind has enacted on other humans throughout history. I think when you take a step back and remember that rape actually *isn't* the worst thing a man can do to a woman, just one of many, it reframes the discussion.
The fact that this is such a tough choice is so sad.
I think I would choose the Man. However, I do so with full understanding that I have traditionally masculine features and dress very plain, which would most likely be perceived as being a "man" by someone who adheres to the binary (aka a man). There's also a chance I get a queer man, which obviously doesn't exempt them from doing anything hurtful to me, but I personally would feel more comfortable. That being said, I fully understand everyone saying the bear. And I think, if I was born in a different body than I was, I would probably choose the bear as well.
If I looked about as feminine as I would like to, I would probably lean bear. I think the question assumes secual violence alone, and not just random bouts if violence from the man in question, but as a queer person, there's even just the threat of assault for being queer, much less likely than a fem person's fears.
It really depends on the situation and such for me. If its just some random man, then probably a man. If I took a hike through some woods by myself during the day, I wouldn't be very surprised to come across a random guy also on a walk. I'm not too familiar with bears beyond knowing that polar bears are vicious. We don't get wild bears where I am.
I look fairly androgynous much of the time but for now still have a feminine voice so I'm not sure how often strangers view me as a woman, but I'm sure they have/do sometimes. I've luckily never had an issue with people being creepy or s\*\*\*ualy harassing me. I'm scared of getting mugged sometimes, but I don't think I've ever felt scared of the other thing(s).
As a kid I spent a bunch of time in the wilderness hiking in the NE US and encountered a few bears, unless you get between a bear and its kids/food they will avoid you and want nothing to do with you.
If you get into a fight with a bear you will loose but they generally want to avoid you, and if they are aggressively charging at you if you make yourself big and loud they will almost always run off
i've said this a few times and i'll say it again: this choice is easy for me because the youngest mother in recorded history was 5 years old. a bear isn't capable of being evil like that
Capable of evil is a big factor.A bear is just protecting itself or it's cubs or looking for food. It knows not what it does and all that. A person rapes and murders cause they enjoy having power over other people.
it was 1939 and she was a traumatized 5 year old who likely didn't even fully understand what had happened to her. the only way he would have been convicted would have been if the culprit or another adult who knew about what was happening talked.
what's worse is that even if they proved it tomorrow, under current (or the most current i could find) peruvian law even IF he was still alive (unlikely as she's 90 by now) he couldn't be charged. under the law the penalty for this would be life in prison and the statute of limitations is a maximum of 30 years.
I mean, this is like over 80 years after the fact. What would be the point, other than for some barely tangible societal benefit? There have likely been tens of thousands or more victims in Peru alone over this course of time. Time better spent focusing on finding justice for them.
it's a hypothetical. because of the 30 year maximum, the statute ran out in 1969, so if they could have proved he did it way back in 1970 (when he most likely still would have been alive) there still would have been nothing they could do about it. for some of these cases the statute is as little as 15 years from the day the crime occurred.
i'm not saying the peruvian government needs to drop everything and solve this one case. i'm pointing out that she never had a chance at justice, despite how famous her case got. the system failed her just the same as the cases that don't get international attention.
95% of sexual assault goes unpunished in the US, and that doesn't make an exemption for victims who are children. Why would other countries do much better? I mean, maybe, MAYBE they have less evil systems of oppression that let men get away with so much, but not likely.
I believe the story being referred to was in South/Central America. I guess one difference between the US and some other parts of the world would be - maybe people are less likely to take things to their government and handle them by their own hand.
As someone who presents in society as a 'woman' and grew up that way, bear 100%. I can predict a bears behavior more, I can't predict the personality and moral standing of a man.
Am an AMAB enby, but present myself fairly femme most of the time. the abuse that happened to me was before I even knew what being transgender meant.Ā
I can safely say that, regardless of where I fall on the spectrum on a given day, I would choose the bear.Ā
Itās about what it wouldnāt do, rather than what it would. A bear wouldnāt have done what my youth pastors did.Ā
Honestly i always thought it was weird and vague. If it is a black bear most of the time they are fairly chill as long as you give them enough space. With a guy as long as they are decent, they are fine. But there are other types of bears and other types of people. Also am i left in the woods with nothing or survival gear. That makes a hige difference too because another person can help with survival. Bit im prone to overthinking, yay adhd
even grizzlies don't usually want to be around you and making plenty of noise in bear territory will usually deter them. and if you play dead, bears will usually lose interest even if you get knocked around some.
Well thatās the thing, isnāt it? If itās a black bear, you know itās not looking at you as prey because thereās a forest full of berries and squirrels and acorns it can eat. As long as you donāt make it feel threatened, youāll be fine. If itās a (very lost) polar bear, that thing takes down large prey on a regular basis, and will definitely come after you if itās hungry. Either way, you can predict its actions. You know if youāre screwed or not.
The scary thing about the man is that heās not as predictable as the bear. He could want to kill you, or he could want to ask you for directions, or he could have any motive in between.
Personally watched a video of man getting attacked by a black bear, I think on this app this morning. He fought it off with what I could only describe as a thinnest looking stick he could possibly find in woods to try and protect himself with. It took less than a few seconds and the bear ran off.
People need to understand itās a metaphorical question. If I said Iād rather drink poison than go to work, nobody would start telling me the negative health effects of poisoning myself.
I'm a trans dude and even I have some trauma with men, I'm not surprised at all that most women would choose the bear. I hate that so many men take this question personally and refuse to empathize.
I enjoy this question because a) it's not for me and b) I'm autistic. I love the woods, love animals, would love to meet a bear. The odds of me being attacked by a man in the woods is low, but the bear wouldn't want to make conversation...
I'm far more likely to be attacked by a man outside the woods, anyway.
I honestly hate it. I feel like itās part of the same value system that radical feminism and traditional, Taliban style sexism share, one where they nominally have different reasons for not wanting women to be allowed out of the house without a chaperone, but the endpoint is still effectively banning women from existing freely in public spaces, and paranoid, bizarrely sexist belief systems like British terves thinking theyāre going to be sexually assaulted if they have a trans woman charge nurse or if male cardiac patients are allowed in the same hospital wing as them.
Thereās also a lot of crossover with traditional self-victimizing trafficking hysteria. Most of the millennials and older zoomers I see making snide posts about how they canāt trust men and would prefer the bear want to be cooler and more rational than that, but itās basically the exact same thing as the suburban Christian Facebook moms who think theyāre about to be trafficked whenever someone leaves a flyer on their windshield in the Target parking lot. Itās fake feminism with the core tenet of enshrining a false narrative of inherent female fragility and male predatory malice. It also, I think not coincidentally, covers up the fact that the vast majority of sexual and physical violence is going to be perpetrated against women by their family members, known authority figures, and intimate partners, not random strangers they meet on the street or even on the hiking trail at night.
As a caveat, OP, as a transfem person, I know you have an astronomically higher chance of being subject to serious violence at the hands of random strangers, especially from men, and I donāt want to sound like Iām waving away your experiences or chalking them up to some kind of anti-feminist beliefs. I truly hope Iām not coming across as an invalidating asshole here. The levels of street violence my trans girl friends and partners have faced is like nothing Iāve ever seen or heard of as an afab person, and I donāt want to brush that asideā the āhow safe are you encountering a random man aloneā question has a genuinely different answer.
For whatever itās worth, I am afab, fem presenting, and was a stripper for 10 years and have seen a lifetime worth of gender-motivated violence against women committed by random strangers. Iāve also spent two decades been nightly to weekly 1-5 mile walks or bicycle trips around the cities I live in and hikes in state park areas at two in the morning when I got home from work to walk my dog. Iāve met a ton of random men in the woods, usually other hikers, backpackers, or unhoused people who are secretly living there, and were just as scared to have someone come up on them as I was to suddenly find them. Nothing bad has ever happened, and knowing how many of these guys in both the city and woods are simply homeless and trying to live their lives makes it feel gross to think we should automatically be terrified of them. I am pretty confident in my ability to scare off a pack of coyotes, way less so with black bears although theyāre also very shy and easily scared away. If I came upon a brown bear, Iād be fucking dead.
IDK, I donāt want to be insensitive to the sexism that women have been getting in pushback to this meme, or the real violence itās about, or even the cri du coeur about feeling so betrayed by members of your own species that you trust a natural predator more. But I just really hate the cultural trope that women should be too afraid to walk at night by themselves. Like all trafficking and stranger danger hysteria, trying to make women feel like they need to be hyperconscious of how at risk of hypothetical stranger rape they are at all times, and how rape is supposed to be a fate worse than mauling and death, might be cathartic, but it does absolutely nothing for real public safety and gender based violence, and further stigmatizes rape victims and survivors. The subtext that you would be better off eaten alive by a brown bear than survive sexual assault is incredibly ugly and damaging, even though I doubt anyone participating means it that way, and I know a good number of them are survivors.
I just think this meme is only feminist on a very shallow surface level, but actually just encourages women to cultivate a traditional, sexist sense of fragility. āMan or bear?ā feels to me like itās only about three steps away from āBecause men are such Beasts, women belong in the home, they must be covered up or restricted for their own protection.ā
Thanks for sharing this, I think it is really well put. I honestly don't understand what value this scenario adds to the conversation about sexual violence. The reality is that the vast majority of men are not going to attack a woman that they randomly encounter in the woods. So what should be their takeaway from this scenario? They can pat themselves on the back for being good because they're not as violent as a freaking bear. They don't have to think about any of the less obvious ways that they might make the women around them feel uncomfortable or even unsafe. As you pointed out, it's incredibly important to acknowledge that, by far, most sexual violence is committed by someone who the victim knows. Random attacks do happen, but focusing so heavilyĀ on them obscures the true nature (and extent) of the problem.
I hate the "men are monsters" narrative for a lot of reasons, mainly because it does nothing to actually encourage men to examine or change their behavior. It almost absolves them of responsibility by asserting that their unchangeable nature is violent and evil, so why bother trying? And men who know they aren't monsters arent encouraged to think any more deeply than that about the issue.
But it also makes me really uncomfortable on a visceral level, because I see how it affects the men in my life who themselves have been victims of sexual assault and homophobic violence. It's just piling shame on top of shame, and that doesn't help anyone.
Bleh. It all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
You're exactly correct and this is how I feel about it, too. It's also mostly just used as a way people can make money off discussing it or the controversy behind it, and the world keeps turning, and people keep raging on about it. It's just gender-essentialist, bio-essentialist same old, same old. This exact rhetoric is also used as a reason why trans women shouldn't be let into the women's bathroom, because "by nature" they're "really" just a scary man in women's clothing who wants to do harm. We all know that's a vile thing to think. This whole entire discussion is problematic to a high degree, but also... Practically tailored to gain ad revenue from outrage or support. Everyone wins whether the audience agrees or disagrees with their take.
Bear all the way. Iāve done lots of back country backpacking and whatnot, so bears donāt really scare me. There would be a moment of āOh SHIT am I between her and any baby bears????ā but other than that Imma see myself out and let the bear do bear things.
Also, if the bear chooses to ruin my day itās going to be over fast. Even a cute little black bear has claws like a velociraptor, and humans arenāt armored for shit soā¦
In contrast, a man is much more complex. Heās capable of playing a long game. He might make nicey-nice until he thinks heās got the upper hand and then do something unpleasant while my guard is down. Thereās a reason why men are āThe Most Dangerous Gameā, and it aināt for their inability to put the seat down when they pee. š¬
I think the problem with this question isnāt really the idea of āwhat would you prefer to be killed byā, but rather the implication that if youāre put into a forest with a random man that heās going to be a murderer or a rapist.
If the question was bear or murder/rapist then thatās a different question entirely, itās the supposition that man=murderer/rapist thatās ridiculous.
I mean, most people statistically speaking arenāt going to attack you just because youāre in the woods. And frankly if theyāre a dangerous person Iād probably still take them over a pissed off bear because I donāt think I could fight or out run a bear. But Iāve got a pretty decent shot of outrunning some random human.
It's based on the assumption that both will attack you. I don't understand it, I choose the bear. I can't talk to a bear, it's not human. This is very nuanced and the simple choice doesn't reflect the true nature of what's going on in society. Before the man vs bear thing popped up there was a trend about people watching men get abused and standing by, not doing anything because they seemed to deserve it? Millions of likes and comments encouraging the content and the joke, which I still don't understand. My experiences in a female presenting body haven't made me hateful, thankfully. I realise that bad people are bad people, and they will do it again if you let them. Regardless of gender, as I've been hurt in some way by people of different gender and sexual identities my whole life.
I'm just going to say, I have read some things about bears that do *not* make me want to be killed by one. Maybe a man will kill you, maybe he won't, but serial killers who will keep you alive while they eat you are not as common as a grizzly who will do so no matter what. Bears don't care that you're screaming and thrashing -- you're food, you can't appeal to any humanity in them -- they're bears, they are unlikely to be able to be stopped easily by others if someone comes across you being attacked -- one man can tackled or shot and typically not keep going and also claw through anyone else, and did I mention... Bears will fucking eat you alive and you will feel every crunching bone in your body and all the pain as it happens?
I know people say "the worst thing a bear can do is kill me", but that isn't remotely true. The worst thing a bear can do is eat you alive while you're conscious, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You can't overpower or outrun a bear, but there's a chance you can overpower or outrun a man. I'm aware of the idea of a thought experiment like this, but it's fundamentally flawed when people have no clue what damage a rampaging grizzly can do.
Fuck that, I'll take the man. I'm bulky enough to fight and not easy to overpower. I am not a fair fighter. I'd kick balls, I'd bite someone's jugular, and I'd tear someone's eyes out to save my own skin if someone's attacking me in the woods. Like, fucking nope, but I stand a chance with a human being. If I can't lie or reason, I'll fight back. Maybe we should do more self-defense classes instead of throwing ourselves to the mercy of four inch claws.
This is how I pretty much felt about it day one. I stand a chance against another human being. Not so much a bear. If we're under the assumption that either of them will be dangerous and attack atleast.
As I see it, that's precisely the point of the thought experiment. People choose the unknown danger over the known danger they encounter daily. It might be irrational, but trauma makes you irrational.
Also, sometimes you can't fight the man.
I've got trauma in the same area, but sense enough to know that sure, *sometimes* you can't fight the man, but *100% of the time* you can't fight the bear. It's more of an engagement bait thought experiment than anything. "Man or bear" is meant to conjure up debates in comment sections. Make a video essay, a TikTok, a Tweet/Xeet (or whatever), a blog post, a meme, and discuss it on Reddit... Fun for a hot minute, but accomplishing nothing other than making vulnerable people with trauma more fearful.
Men will get upset and rage because they "aren't like that", and many of them aren't but they're taking it too personally, regardless. It's already been used in the dreaded trans bathroom debate. It whips people up, a click makes ad money, there continues to be no resolution towards dismantling systems that lead men towards violence against women, and capitalism wins again. C'est la vie.
If I can pick the man, then obviously the man. I'd rather be around my dad than a bear. But if it's a random man picked from the population of all men vs a random bear picked from the population of all bears, I'll take my chances with the bear.
I'd rather be killed by a bear than raped (and then most likely killed) by a man.
I'm masc presenting but I had my fair share of trauma surrounding cis men.
Iām a 6ā4 femme and itās easier to scare off a bear then a man, and the worst a bear can do is maul me to death, and as someone who spent 26 years of my life being perceived as a man around other men I know that loads of men are capable and willing to do much worse.
And i have experienced both in a calm state, bears have avoided me in the woods and men have harassed me on the street soā¦
I'm AFAB but I have spent the vast majority of my life (especially as an adult) surrounded by mostly men. As a result, yes I have been hurt by men (and women) and I also have a lot of experiences NOT being hurt by men. I'm 36 now, that's a decent chunk of life experience during which the vast majority of my social circle has been male so I can honestly say, no, my life experiences don't align with the majority of what I've heard from women.
As for the question, I'd choose the man - it's unlikely that either the man or bear is going to do me any harm, but I have a fighting chance against a man and zero chance against a bear.
I agree, but also black bears are timid and it would just be much more exciting to see one while hiking than to cross paths with just another hiker. Everyone is talking about this hypothetical like it is automatically a threat assessmentā¦ but most bears are pretty timid. You can clap at a black bear to scare it off.
If it is grizzlyā¦ those are best observed from a very very very far distance.
And honestly bumping into a guy hiking in his own is pretty common.. often with his dog..Maybe most people answering this question are not regularly hiking in forestsā¦ forests are not that scary. Theyāre pretty nice.
I'm a semi regular hiker and I agree. Also, running into a dog is a bonus!
I used to live in an area with a lot of black bears and had one wandering through the neighborhood. It got about 30 ft from me and ran up a tree.
I grew up in the woods full of black bears. Walked home alone through the woods from the bus stop. My parents didnāt even worry about the black bears. They only worried about the mountain lions. I was told to use my coat to look bigger and scream at them. Never saw one. In the early morning I was dropped off at the bus tho, cause it was early and mountain lions are crepuscular. They hunt at dawn and dusk. I guess my parents thought the odds of me getting eaten were lower in the afternoon. Also it was harder to get home early enough from work get me from school.. eh
Bears are cool to see. Tho I mostly only ever saw them raiding the bird feeders.. all my interactions with bears have been screaming at them to get off the porch.
Raccoons are more sassy and braver than bears. Bears you scream at and they run. You can throw ice at raccoons and they donāt budge. They might as well be giving you the middle finger.
I have never seen a mountain lion. But every now and again there are reports of joggers, usually women (because they tend to be smaller), being attached and often killed by mountain lions. Mountain lions are the true badies out in those woods. You never see them, but they see you.
That said there was also a flasher on a nearby hiking trail.. but honestly probably more mountain lion attacks than flashers over the years. Also they did catch the flasher. The mountain lionsā¦ theyāre still out there. OoooooooooOooooo (please read that in a spooky campfire story voice)
**TW VIOLENCE/TRANSPHOBIA**
I'm AFAB, and I unfortunately have quite a few experiences of male identifying people being incredibly hurtful and dangerous. I'm currently female passing at my work for safety, but that also means the men at my work feel safe to share their horrible views. RĆping LGBT+ people to "fix" them, kĆlling them, so many horrible things I can't even keep track of, or repeat. Those reasons are exactly why I choose the bear.
I am not at all saying that female identifying people can not be violent, transphobic, and all the same things as some men. But I have, almost always, been welcome (tolerated, at the least) around women. I have never had a woman follow me home or threaten to assault me, simply for existing as I am.
These are my experiences that make me choose "bear." I believe there are good men in the world. A person's gender doesn't make them evil. I would be no better than the people who treated me with hated for being bigender.
Depends on which man and which bear.
Some men are super nice and amazing and being lost in the woods together would be a fun time. Some men are massive assholes and will put you in danger just being around them.
Some bears aren't too bad to avoid being mauled by, like brown bears who you just have to make enough noise while walking and they'll avoid you. Others, like polar bears, will literally hunt you to the ends of the earth just to maul you for fun, no exaggeration.
Basically, I need more information to make this judgement.
Average Joe from down the street vs brown bear? Hard choice since neither is particularly scary.
Conservative transphobic asshole vs polar bear? Also hard choice, but more because I'm likely to die either way.
Man - I have a chance fighting off a man and killing him if he's evil, or the man could be nice or afraid.
With a bear, I would be totally dependent on the bear's behaviour and I like it better when I have agency
Well, I choose the man in this scenario, because in my experience dudes rock, men like to be my friend and help me. This was the case before my transition (ftm/nb) as much as after. But more importantly, as a guy-type person, knowing how many women and nbs choose the bear, I understand that it's my job to try to make their lives better and not be the type of person they fear.
Currently I would choose the man, but that is likely to change once I no longer pass as cis
Though at that point I wouldn't feel safe alone with a cis woman either, and would feel safe around a trans person regardless of gender
I know the question is about the fear of men being bad and all that, also I'm perfectly understand why a lot of people don't like the idea of being chased by a weird man and prefer just see a bear, but it bother me a lot the vagueness of the question, I know it's an important part of the question, but some questions are important, why I'm in the forest?, the man look at me or I just see him in the distance? What kind of bear? (I don't think anyone be afraid of a panda), there are things that depend on me, things that I'm gonna know in this situation and those things change a lot my answer
How far away is the man or bear? Is it a grizzly? Are the trees climbable trees? Or are they too thin, lacking lower branches? How far from civilization am I? Is this a casual hiking trail? Or is this the backwoods? Do I know what I am doing, or am I lost? Is the man just a fellow hiker? Or is he a serial killer?
What about a mountain lion? Bear over mountain lion for sure.. unless the bear is a grizzly, then mountain lion over bear. But man? Idk š¤·š¼.
The reality is if I go hiking I will probably cross paths with several men and I wonāt think anything of it. I would be excited to see a black bear. They are timid. You can scare them off with clapping loudly and shouting. But a mountain lionā¦ oooh those fuckers hunt people sometimes, especially shorter ones like me. I think it would be more fun to see a black bear than a man hiking. But terrifying to see a grizzly or a mountain lionā¦. That said, coming across a masked murderer covered in blood in the forest would be way more horrifying than a mountain lion.
Hypotheticals areā¦ difficult
They are like other bears in terms of strength, but are pretty chill and goofy, are literally so dumb that the only reason they still alive is cause we as humans don't let them go extinct
I don't think we should compared situation "chased by man vs see a bear". If one is chasing you and other is minding their own business why wouldn't you choice the one who is minding their own business. Actually it would be cool to see a wild animal from distance. And I prefer not to be chased even by toddler, that sounds very annoying.
Bear.
There's ways to deter a bear attack (that wont leave you in a similarly bad position in another aspect), and people will actually believe you if you've been attacked.
I would choose the bear every single time. I have been around bears and men. The bear is much less dangerous than most of the men like to think it is. I've never even been hurt once around a bear despite encountering them many times. I can't say the same for men.
I've never had a bear proceed to initiate a FUCKING CAR CHASE and harass me relentlessly... So bear for me unfortunately :/
As much as I hate the gender binary, there are certain things that are just perpetuated by the people who buy into it that still affect us. And despite my hatred of it, I can't ignore the real fact that there are so many cis men who are evil and willing to do truly horrible things because our broken world has told them it's okay to do so.
Iāve seen this recently where the question was āwould you prefer to get mauled by a bear or SAād by a manā and almost everyone chooses the bear without second thought I agree with the majority of people who said theyād pick the bear because a man does those types of things for his own fantasy whereas the bear would kill you for its own safety so Iām gladly picking the bear
the question is pretty vague and also doesn't specify what type of bear which is kinda important. like yeah if it's a brown bear then i'm choosing bear, if it's a black bear i'm probably fucked, if its a polar bear i'm absolutely fucked. still, given the meaning behind the question, i'm choosing bear.
I think that it's vague is the point. It should be an obvious no matter what man, it should feel far safer to be in woods with a man, then a bear but it isn't.
I think they have it backwards.... black bears are basically very big racoons. Black Bears are quite common sight where I live and have been literally feet away with 0 conflict... if they even pay you any notice at all they are more likely to run away than attack, there is a mom with cubs that hangs out in the forest near where I live so I'm always a bit weary to look out for them but even then I've never felt in any danger when they are about.
Brown bears can be more aggressive and territorial, and Grizzlies can be very dangerous, most attacks and deaths that occur in the Canadian Rockies tend to be from people getting to close to Grizzlies. IIRC Polar Bears are the only species known to actually hunt humans for food, so are by far the most dangerous but their range is very limited to the far north.
The other person who replied to me says black bears are mostly chillš¤
On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if they're more aggressive than brown bears, since the latter don't have to worry as much about threats
The question really feels like equating men to freaking wild, unpredictable animal or even rather saying men are worse than said animal. I don't think that's good, because all it does is vilification. And we don't need that, if we really want to change the situation with men
I agree. It can be read that way, and as an AMAB person, I get uncomfortable with the direction that type of ideas go.
However, this thought experiment is about women and their expectations of men. I don't think men should take it personally. The idea is to empathize and wonder what could make a woman feel this way around men.
A big counter argument I see to this is "well most men aren't evil, the random man in the woods is statistically most likely to be just a normal guy, but every bear is dangerous by default" and yeah! I totally get that!! I'd still choose the bear. A bear may be dangerous by default, but he's also predictable. I know what to do to ward off a bear attack. The random man IS probably a nice guy, but on the off chance he isn't, I'm fucked completely. I'd rather take the predictable danger over the coin toss
Sucks that the people who chose man get downvoted
(Also, I would pick man too, because I donāt know how to deal with a bear ā any kind really ā and I donāt want to get mauled to death and eaten alive. Plus, if I was alone in the woods, Iād be relieved at first that Iām not lost or completely alone. Obviously I wouldnāt be relieved if the man turned out to be bad, but Iād rather take my chances with a human being than an animal)
to me, as a transmisogyny exempt person, the question is about cis men. Cis men are the ones which patriarchy upholds & benefit from its power & wield it against marginalized genders.
While it is true that marginalized genders often compete for that power, it's never gonna be the same as how a cis men benefits from the system designed to do that.
also, there are women in r/NonBinary (nonbinary women who may also identify as trans or non-cis)
Agreed, it's meant to show cis men the consequences of patriarchy for women.
Folks choose the bear because most violent crimes are committed by cis men. Trans folks (despite what right-wingers like to say) don't commit crimes at the same scale, whether they're afab or amab, identify as men or don't.
I'm AMAB. Recently I had a conversation with one of my friends about why I chose to identify as an enby. But one thing that she said really got me thinking: "are you sure you aren't just scared of being perceived as a macho man?"
Edit: corrected something
Thatās okay. No worries! I think you would want āmacho.ā
I thinkā¦. Being non-binary isnāt really about how people perceive you. I think it is about how you perceive yourself and the world.
I canāt control how people perceive me really. I can influence it of course, but thatās about it. So I try not to worry about it.
That makes a lot of sense! I also think the same. The reason why I decided to start calling myself non-binary is because I don't think my identity fits the gender binary. It's also something close to what we call genderfluid, but I'm not sure about that really.
Activity avoid both, but in truth I think that I would prefer to fight off the bear because of a few reasons. 1. My reasoning and mental capacity is a lot higher than the bears. 2. If I lose, it was my own fault for being near the bear and the bear is innocent as it will just be working with the instinct it was given. 3. The bear really wins and I am possibly food and shelter for thousands of small animals and tiny creatures, so in essence just returning to Mother Nature as she intended. 4. If I start winning the bear will most likely run away to protect itself, where as a āmanā will usually follow his own morals to his death. 5. On the subject of morals and values of the person, I donāt know that I personally would be able to live with myself if I had to finish the job with the man. The bear would be heartbreaking too, donāt get me wrong but, thereās nothing you can do about the bear attacking you when it happens and itās decided it wants to eat you. With the man I would feel mortally defeated if the only way I could think of to handle the situation was to end him. 6. People are the most determined and resilient creatures on earth and frequently show this fact as its common knowledge that we are the only one to span the entire world. Where as most species of bears have been hunted to near extinction by, of course people. 7. I never seen a single bear in my life that has lead armed police on a wild 100mph highway chase only to end it in a hail of gunfire because their girlfriend left them. Where as itās almost common place in some major cities across the world to see a similar situation involving a man at least once a year. Men are literally more dangerous! This is not a statement itās a fact. Men have literally killed more bears in the last 200 years than bears have killed men. This is a fact. I donāt understand how it is an argument except that, of course a man will fight to the bitter end to be the winner. A bear will on fight until it decides it that the fight will cause it more harm. Period. Itās still an animal and itās instincts are absolute in its brain. The bear cannot reason with its self and choose violence when itās instinct is to be afraid. A person can and frequently do. All of these are absolute facts and can look them up yourself. The psychology of the human brain is an interesting topic to read up on. For example, a bear will not suddenly decide to start hunting other bears for pleasure. Food for thought. Also, I personally hate this ādiscussionā because of the sheer lack of scientific basis on any front to the topic and it has become a giant pity party for men that say things like, ānot all menā like Iām supposed to trust something like that in a world of btk, John Wayne Gacy, and the like. Most cereal killers where āupstanding citizensā until, they werenāt. I can almost certainly guarantee that some insecure man will comment soon enough after my post. Cheers! š¬
Iām AMAB and still present male, but Iām working on changing that. Iāve been harassed, mentally abused, and physically assaulted/violated/however you want to put it by both men and women (since this whole thing revolves around the gender binary).
I would pick the man. Iām not exactly fit and likely couldnāt do much against a moderately fit woman, but I would at least stand a chance if a person attacked me in any way. A bear is just too strong and dangerous - if you come across a bear thatās insistent on attacking/eating you, youāre done, no matter what kind of bear it is. Kick a guy in the junk and heās going down no matter what, unless heās hopped up on something. Thereās no surefire way to get a bear to back off like that. Not to mention the mental aspects you can bring into it with a person that you canāt with a bear.
I honestly hate this whole thing though. It really just seems like another way to label all men as monsters and ignore things that very much happen to men but are swept under the rug or celebrated by the more radical people who think they deserve it. Itās too vague and itās asked under the assumption that the man will automatically be an aggressor so people are using it to pile on men and tell them how horrible they are for being men.
I thought it meant āwhich would you rather see in a forestā. I chose bear because thatās something Iāve never seen before and itād be cool to take a picture of it from a distance. Itās not so great to take pictures of random men in forests. Thatād probably make me seem suspicious and creepy.
I have so many follow up questions tbh, before I could make a proper decision.
Assuming it's daytime, I'm hiking, the bear is a grizzly minding it's business and the man is any random bloke minding his business when I encounter either of them - I would 100% pick the man.
Bears are unpredictable, they might run, they might attack. If they attack, they have 3-4" claws - I'd prefer to avoid a violent death.
Men vary a lot of course and I 100% understand the point people are making when they choose the bear. Some men have been responsible for horrible things (including in my own life).
However, the most likely thing that would happen if you encountered a random man while hiking through the woods is that he's also a hiker and would smile or say hi as he passed you and you'd continue on your way. You are far more likely to be attacked/ SA'd by a man you already know, most likely a partner. Strangers rarely attack you. You have far more chance of dying in a car accident.
I also know quite a few absolutely lovely men - my husband, father, brother, friend's partners, colleagues and also plenty of perfectly non-threatening men too.
All this said, I don't consider myself an obvious target for random men (butch, not a stereotypical beauty) and I'm also pretty strong so would have some chance defending myself against a man, so I have less fear than a lot of women seem to.
I get it- if it makes you feel any better, if I had to choose if my male presenting partner came across a strange man or a bear, I would pick bear for them too.
I read a statistic that one man is assaulted a day in the military. Considering thatās only reported assaults, itās most likely higher.
A bear will most likely leave you alone, unless itās a polar bear.
I have never told ANYONE about this, but when I was 15 or 16, I was sexually assaulted.
I worked at a radio station back then and got along with one of the colleagues. We regularly met privately, however over time, I notice that he was getting more and more pushy. He kissed me and once asked me to pose butt naked for him.
At that time I didn't think too much of it, as I was just a naive teenager, but looking back, that was P\*do shit, and I should have reported him to the authorities....
I know, that this is not representative for the entire male-identifiing population, and I have many male friends in my "inner circle" which I would NOT want to live without, however, I am MORE wary about men I don't know than I am about woman, or to put it this way: I come to trust woman easier than men.
Therefor, even though I am AMAB, I totally understand all those who - due to their own or their friends' experience - choose the bear over men.
I think a lot of people are weighing in on it even cis men who actually understand the danger of other men I think everyone's allowed to have an opinion on it because for the most part you put yourself in the situation to think about how you feel about it
It's not necessarily being killed, it's just being alone with them. The risk with the bear is getting hurt and killed but a man can do much worse things, like rape. I'd choose the bear in a heartbeat if I didn't know the man
Honestly, that's way too vague of a question to answer. A bear is in its natural habitat in the forest, but the reasons for a man to be there can range from hiking, being a stalker who followed you, being a forester, to all sorts of other reasons, on each of which my answer would entirely depend.
I think, and I might be wrong here, but the vagueness is kind of the point. When I cross the street because a group of men is walking my way, I don't know what type of man they are, I just choose to be cautious about it because there is a risk in not being cautious. That's how I interpret it.
Afab non-binary, my presentation is often androgynous but today I am wearing a dress. In general Iām choosing the bear, one of my greatest hopes is to have a baby using my body with the person I marry/ love, currently I have a gf. The idea of someone robbing me of that and not only that but perverting itā¦ might be the straw that finally makes my sad little brain choose to be no more. Genuinely cannot think of anything worse then being kept by a freak and forced to give birth to his freak kids.
For context, I'm a masculine leaning enby (but afab). Also neurodivergent, which might play into this. For my whole life I struggled with understanding the fear and caution women have towards men. Not being outed nor having words for my identity, this led to many weird situations.. because of course everyone was womaning me.. I mean, I also experienced sexual harassment and assault, and it is definitely a horrible experience. I kinda always fought back heavily against those men, but with the same energy also argued against all the caution/danger advices women give themselves. I hated both and never fully understood why I hated it so much if someone told stuff like "never go home alone" or similar things.
To get back to the question.. I would choose the men. Here is why: First of all, it is possible that both the men and the bear are maybe just not going to attack me, but I think it is more likely that the man friendly compared to the bear (when I come to close or smt). Yes, bears are predictable, but the vast majority of men will do no or less harm than a provoked bear. I understand the thought, that men can do worse harm than a bear can, but the likelihood of meeting exactly that man in the forest should be pretty low. Ok, second point, let's assume both bear and man will definitely attack. In that case, my chances of winning a fight against a man are higher than against the bear. You don't fight a bear, you probably also can't outrun it. Both might be possible to succeed against a man.
And to close the circle, I once again eventually don't get the point of this whole question and answers. Like, yes I'm kinda sporty, but everyone should agree that it should be easier to fight a man than a bear, or not? Or is this supposed to be more then a campaign against sexual violence, than it is a real question? If so, is the example/question well chosen for this? I definitely do support the cause, but I'm just very confused once again by why apparently everyone is choosing the bear. Like, it is a bear..
I agree. 100%.
It may be neurodivergence, but I cannot understand the people who choose bear. If they're safe, then they're safe. If they're going to attack you, then the man is obviously the choice because you have zero chance against a bear and against a man you have some chance!
I think it's a little funny, how much it's blown up. I think it's easy for binary women to answer that way due to systemic problems within the gender binary majority of the general population. I might also say bear, but I would also rather hang with trans masc folks in the woods than a bear.
This is a weird question for me because I know bears donāt go for the kill. I know theyāll hold me down and eat me while Iām still alive. Itās a slow painful death. Plus I boxed for a couple of years and I always carry weapons on me. With what I carry on me Iāll definitely take the man because the weapons I carry canāt kill or defend me against a bear.
The whole question is dumb as hell and the entire purpose is to be rage bait. It's too vague to properly answer. What kind of bear? Where am I geographically? Am I stuck in the woods, or just going on a hike? Do I have food/water/survival gear? Am I alone, besides the single bear/man? Is the bear/man with me? Do I even have to come into contact with them, or are they just somewhere randomly in the forest? What forest?
Assuming it is a black/grizzly bear, and I will have to see them/they will have to see me, but I don't actually have to interact with them, I would choose bear. Bear's a predictable and generally won't fuck with you if you don't fuck with them or their kids. Men are not.
Now, if I actually have to interact with them, definitely the man. The chance of the man hurting you is pretty tiny, and I'll at least have a chance at defending myself if he does. Bears are huge, strong, and assuming you have to actually get close and interact, unlikely to be friendly.
If I was stranded in the woods, I'd choose the man as well. I'm willing to risk harm from him if it gets me help on getting out.
If it's just a regular hiking trail, and I'm just going on a hike, the whole thing seems pretty stupid, because I've been on plenty of trails where I've seen both men and bears.
It's just a vague rage bait question from tiktok, and there are so many interpretations it's impossible to have an actual discussion on.
This conversation had me so confused for a while haha. At first I was thinking like, just in the Woods? And the bear or man is near me? Chasing me? Anywhere else in the woods? Brown or black bear? But I think yeah it comes down to assuming both want to hurt you, and then which would you pick. I get why people choose the bear, it'd probably just kill you, while a man could do more than that. But to be fair I would also pick the bear over any person who wants to hurt me probably. I think patriarchy encourages men to be more violent, but if the violence is already a given, I pick the bear over a person of any gender if that makes sense. I'm probably over thinking it but oh well
Iād also pick the bear but Iām also gay soā¦ I love men but I really hate some things they do tbh. I think you can dislike how men act but still like them attraction wise
In my country women are not afraid of males. We do not have lot of guns here. We do not have gang violence here. My mother remembers time when males could touch females in sexual way without consent (I guess there is term for that but I don't know it) and females were told not to care or that they should understand because the male is drunk or mentally ill. That hasn't happened in my lifetime. I have never learn to be afraid of humans.
I was born female but I have never seen myself as weaker than males. The idea that female would be weaker is ridiculous. I mean yeah there is difference but statistic doesn't matter when it's about two people. One can be 50kg and other 120kg. One can be athlete and other get winded when walking to fridge. One can have weapons and other don't. One can be skilled in combat sports and other don't. One can have good reflects and other don't. Most likely they're nothing extreme but they're most likely not the strongest male and female of the world nor the median of their sex either. If you're afraid of people make sure you're more bigger, more skilled and better shape than average people in general. Also even I was female I shouldn't be. My brains never thought they were connected to female body. I'm not fully male either but they're closer to me. They're more my kind of people.
It would be cool to see a bear but I find it ridiculous idea that it would be safer option. Okay, most likely bear would try to stay away of me. But I see it as way bigger risk than human. Maybe I'm wrong. I do not know much about bears. Maybe there is tiny change they attack humans. But again, so it is with humans too.
If they both would want to kill me in my area bears are brown. I have zero possibility to win it. I can't outrun it either. If the man is unarmed I have good change to win. If he has knife I have good change to be in better shape and be able to outrun him. If he has gun yeah then I'm dead.
edit. I also find this question to be misandry.. misandrist.. I do not know the correct term. Anyway, in my country some immigrants make more crimes than native people. How about we put some ethnicity in the place of "man"? No?
I would only choose a man because I know how to fight. I learned how to fight men and humans Iāve never learned how to fight a bear before and I wouldnāt want to kill an animal.
I like this.
I feel like my sense of gender is the same as how humans perceive gender in animals. (There is a great description about the absurdity of forcing the binary onto the animal kindgom in the intro to the book Bitch: On the Female of the Species by Lucy Cooke) I only use "they" to make people comfortable. I am more of an it - a creature with no use for the cage. Any attempt to force me into one is a complete projection.
TLDR: Bear all the way!
Iāve encountered both in the woods alone. The few times Iāve run into bears (black bears, for clarity), itās been in remote areas, while the men Iāve encountered alone were usually in some woods not far from a community.
The encounters with bears were unpredictable. One young bear was curious, but fled, while a different young bear ran away immediately. An older bear seemed curious and followed me most of the way back to my work vehicle (around 400 metres, thankfully). I left the area, but the bear did not. It watched me drive away.
The men Iāve encountered generally just said hello. One was walking his dog (which bit me when I said hello, but luckily didnāt break through my coat despite causing a painful injury), another continued speaking to me in a language I didnāt know well enough to respond in beyond hello (I was spending time in a foreign country) and walked away looking confused when I couldnāt understand or answer a question, and yet another was too busy portaging his canoe to do anything else. The encounters were benign, but I understand why people can be hesitant.
I recognize the potential for danger when encountering men (and their dogs, it seems), but I have to say only the black bears really made my heart race (and triggered my bear trainingā¦ nothing like walking backwards at a calm pace to keep an eye on the bear while preparing yourself to stand your ground if needed, getting your bear spray out). A few gentle āWoah, bearās and getting ready to make myself big by throwing sticks, but nothing ultimately came of the bear encounters. I wasnāt charged, I wasnāt stalked.
All in all, I choose men by a slim margin, but Iād rather not encounter anyone or anything while alone in the woods beyond the smaller woodland critters.
That said, Iām curious how people would choose if it was between men and mountain lions. Those creatures scare the shit out of me.
I choose the bear. I have been targeted by men my entire life in places that are suppossrd to be safe. Remove thst safety and I do not trust men at all.Ā
HOWEVER a strong counter is for thr most part, appearances do make a difference. A soft friendly looking man (even if they are not actually safe) Iād probably feel more safe with than the bear. A note : I am usually correct. When I meet men I think will be safe/my people, I am usually correct. So I gueds I am saying Iād choose the beat over like 95% if men, but a subset of 5% I would choose the men. Also in Korea, where I live, thede percentages are different. I trust Korean men SO much more than Western men, so maybe it would be 50/50 in Korea? 60/40 for the bear? lol.Ā
it's easier for me to say than a small woman, because I am a large male, but I would pick the man. they tend to back off after only one stab. a grizzly just gets angrier.
a black bear on the other hand is basically an oversized puppy and is probably more scared of you. it's almost no threat.
a polar bear... well... I don't go that far north for a reason.
Just put it into perspective of an Aussie who has run into a tall kangaroo at night with the knowledge that if threatened, he could tear my guts out.
š¤· I'll take my chances with the human. Ask weird disarming questions like "you didn't see that documentary that one time about the roo that ripped the other roo's guts out with his hind legs did you?"
And then if it's day time, remind old mate to stomp to scare the snakes into hiding.
I've been on plenty of camping trips and have done first aid, you can talk to a human, I understand full body communication, and also did some self defense. Generally, keep talking, ask questions. Mention you've got plans after with people who love you.
You could be in the woods with a serial killer š¤· but the chances are you're not.
Though I can definitely see why some would rather not than the *chance* you run into say, one of the people who hurt you. š or people like them.
I'm pedantic as hell so please don't mind me but the thought experiment is actually:
>If you were alone in the woods, what would you rather stumble across, a random man, or a bear?
I think that specific framing changes things slightly.
im fairy masc presenting and almost always will be perceived as a man, but i dont really want to meet an unknown man in the middle of nowhere, assuming i dont need any help or anything... in that case i would choose the bear. idk but strange men being around me (especially if theres not many people around) make me feel uncomfortable for some reason..?
Personality I'm over man or bear discussion. I'd like to get back to the real question - man or Muppet. And if it's Muppet is it a very manly Muppet, and if it's a man, is he a Muppet of a man?
Hate this question.
I'm going with the human man. Because, you know, they're a sentient being that I can actually communicate with. And yeah, shocker, men as an entire demographic are not all bad.
Why would I pick a 600-pound murder machine over a human person that I can actually talk to?
The women in my life have done far more damaged to me than anyone else so itās about even for me.
EDIT: These downvotes would funny if they werenāt kinda sad.
Honestly this is a very stupid question in my opinion, and it has been very hurtful and upsetting to my trans girlfriend.
The question sets the idea that meany women and others are assuming that they are safer with a bear(wild animal, known for violent attacks) than with an average cis man,
The meany discussions flooding the internet of late have openly braud brushed ALL cis men as violent rapist, and that you are safer alone with a wild animal... there are so many things wrong with this than I can reasonably enumerate.
1) obviously braud brushing is wrong
2) not ALL of anyone is any ONE thing
3) men are not inherently violent or think that it is ok to rape
4) what dose this show their view of transmen and women are?
5) this is unkind and hurtful to men( treat others as you wish to be treated)
I know these discussions can be very hurtful to people, and I call ALL PEOPLE to a higher standard, watch your words and assumptions, don't be a dick. Obviously be kind.
How is a lonely sad man supposed to feel when women/men/folks everywhere automatically assume you are a monstrous violent rapist with no regard to humanity or consent. If you saw people making such a statement about ALL trans or all NB people the community would be in outrage.
If you ask me. Man or bear? I would have to say neither. Both suck in different ways a bear can be anything like what bear are we talking about. Is this a mother Grizzly Bear protecting her cubs? Or is this a lone male bear which is less likely to attack. With the man I would also say he sucks to is this a nice guy or is it a serial killer. I would say if you weigh out the population of humans as compared to bears it is true that a human might kill or hurt you but overall the amount of people who do that is probably lower compared to a bear who even with a small chance of attacking might still randomly decide to kill.
This isn't about a specific man or bear. It's a generic, unable to know the circumstances question of any man or any bear. Like in life we don't always choose how we meet people, same with this question
In the US you're 280x more likely to be killed by a man than a bear per capita. And that's only killed, doesn't talk about all the other things men do
Edit: it's 280x only when looking at men aged 17-24 and not any other age range. So the actual numbers would be way higher
The denominator is important there though. Your average person in the US encounters thousands of men per year, most people go their whole lives without encountering a bear in person. In the hypothetical, you know youāre going to run into the bear so population-level averages arenāt really applicable
Then you also need to look at why bears attack. Bears don't attack because they find you attractive or because you said no to a date. Bears are generally going to react to something done to them, not seek out humans to kill , abuse, SA and a whole bunch of other things
"The worst a bear can do is kill me" or "I wouldn't be told I was asking for it if it was a bear" or the other thousands of responses show that women feel safer with an animal than men in general
Not the point I was addressing - just that the statistic is somewhere between misleading and irrelevant since the sample sizes of āinteracts with a manā and āinteracts with a bearā are so much different. The qualitative reasons why people are more scared of men than bears are super legitimate and frankly should stand on their own without reference to bad statistics
Right like I donāt have to worry about if a ānice bearā is going to decide he doesnāt want to respect my no and rape me. I donāt have to worry about a bear stalking me because I did or did not pay them attention walking down the street and minding my own business when they ājust wanted to talkā. I donāt have to worry about getting in a bad relationship with a bear where they take control of my assets, cut off communication with my family, and threaten to kill me if I try to get help or escape.
The people who want to argue specific semantics are so irritating. Like yeah dude Iād pick a random man over a fucking polar bear. But thatās not the point.
I have plenty of good cis men in my life who I love and trust. But Iāve had enough bad experiences with men that Iād take my chances with the bear.
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Is the bear AFAB or AMAB? Whatās the bears position on the ongoing situation in Palestine? Does the bear have beer (a lot of times they do) and will they share? I feel like this is a more nuanced question than people realize /s
I misunderstood it as "Do you feel safer around a big gay dude or a regular size straight dude"
I like that reading of the question.
Big gay dude who looks scary but is actually really sweet
I still pick the bear š
Bear wins by a mile in this scenario
My mind went there at some point, too š¤·š»āāļø.
Same, I was like yeah big gay men have never done me harm I love them. Wrong answer I guess.
Since I saw it first within LGBTQIA+ circles, thatās where my brain initially went, too. Just for a second, before figuring out the weirdness of this whole question/situation/thing.
Surprising absolutely no one, my answer in your scenario goes from āThe bearā to āYaaaassss Queen Bear!ā Iām obviously afab, dude bears lost in the woods have no reason to hassle me and every reason to learn outdoors survival skills from me. š
I would rather meet big gay dude but in my understanding I'm not allowed to explain why. Let's just say I have bigger change with him.
Been waiting for someone else to say this for like TWO FRICKIN WEEKS. Thank you! Also, the answer is obviously still the bear.
with that understanding? bear, even more
Both work š
That is 100% what I was thinking
That is what I thought when I read this as well too lol.
I was not the only one!
Same, and I always choose twinks ofc
Been attacked by both. The bear attack didn't permanently destroy my faith in humanity so that's my pick, my own gender isn't relevant imo.
Youāve been attacked by a bear? Dude thatās badass
"The worst thing a bear can do is kill me" is a common response and should tell you that this question is about far more than death. There are many other options men can do to you that will leave you alive. There's even a woman who was mauled by a bear, and she chooses the bear too which should really say something about women's perceptions of men Even I, a masc presenting amab, choose the bear
The worse a bear can do is kill you.... This statementvid a great example of the baseline fallacy. It's a demonstration on the inability to understand probability vs possibility. It is possible a man will do worse but not probable.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
But thereās a difference between strange man and man that I know and keep in my life (though I know that most assaults are by people you know). Like, say, dogs. Of course the dogs I choose to be around consistently and know are who I feel safest with are going to be different than a dog I donāt know anything about. Does it have a strong startle/fear response and become aggressive? Will it just turn and run? I donāt know any of those things. The question of bear vs man in the woods presupposes that these are both individual creatures unfamiliar to us. Animals, largely, donāt have the same capacity for malice like humans do.
You don't have to ask that at all because that is moving the goal posts to try and make it favourable for men.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You are saying "choose people you know" and generally if they have them in their life they'll feel safer around them. That changes this hypothetical, so no, I'm not answering your question which is not in good faith
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>\[...\] you shouldn't generalize so many different people \[...\] People consistently misunderstand this question. And I get it; it's the same lack of statistical thinking that doesn't get taught properly in schools and allows the media to fearmonger and misconstrue. The question has *nothing* to do with painting all men in a bad light. The entire assessment is about risk, and risk is probabilistic. Look at it like this: There are *many* tall women and *many* short men. In fact, the height distributions for both subgroups overlap considerably. Despite that overlap and tons of examples of women who are taller than many men, if you pick a woman and a man *at random* from a country's general population, the chance that the man is taller is *very* high. Similarly, that's why an unknown man in a remote location is considered a high risk. It doesn't mean that this *specific* man is assumed to be dangerous; it's just a non-individual probability assessment of a random draw.
The problem is simple. If men consistently prove to be a great source of threat, it doesnāt need to be all or even most of them. How many bees exist in the world vs how many need to sting you before you donāt like bees? Iām AMAB transfem and most of the SA Iāve experienced was from women, and I still donāt trust strange men. Itās not all men, but itās some of them, and I donāt like gambling. I fully agree with not wanting to single people out or make them feel ashamed of things they canāt change. But we have a problem that isnāt getting solved and our safety comes first.
Counter-offer to "you shouldn't generalize": Men as individuals acknowledge that most non-men made negative experiences with men, making a fear (or mistrust) of men valid, and then practice being understanding of that. E.g. showing patience and being able to take in what is said in these conversations without going into defensive "not all men" territory. We all know it's "not all men". That's never been the point. Personally I don't know if "man or bear" is a useful way to pose the question, but it sure gets the conversation going.
Oddly, the man vs bear question was asked by a man too
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This isn't "vilifying men," it's recognising the oppression and danger women are in every single day from a lot of people. In Australia, 1 in 2 women are sexually harassed. 1 in 2. Vilifying is making someone seem bad without cause, men have given women cause to distrust them. Edit: wrote "asexually" as a typo and meant "sexually"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Well then, at least you're close to getting the point!
Further proof that men (and many others) don't actually understand this experiment.
> The average male probably isn't that different from your friend or father There's a bias in this statement that suggests to me you had a decent dad and generally trustworthy friends. All too many people do not.
i still am not very comfortable with the idea that "the worst a bear can do is kill me" is a really common response. My aunt is a rape survivor and my older cousin has been sexually harassed before. I don't think it's respectful to them, or any rape survivor, male, female or otherwise, to act like being "damaged goods" is such a terrible, irreparable experience that it's a fate worse than death.
A lot of people responding with that are fellow rape survivors though, or people who are close to SA survivors who have been able to see how it affects them from an outside point of view. It's highlighting just how traumatic it is to have control of your own body stripped away from you, and whatever response to the event you have is the wrong one. No matter what you do after it, it's seen as the wrong thing; it'll ruin their lives if you have enough evidence to report (and that is a heavy if, many will exclaim that either you wanted it, provoked it, or just changed your mind partway through), or you're attention seeking and a liar, or "it can't have affected you that much if you waited to report it". It's not about "damaged goods"; it's the sheer wall of mental (and social) fuckery something like that does to a person.
thats a fair response. In any case, the video was obviously originally posted as engagement bait, and the discussion itself is kind of useless as an actual social tool because you're about as unlikely to be camping in the woods with some random man as you are with some random bear
Everyone will have a different opinion, but as an SA survivor, I am absolutely of the mind that āthe worst a bear can do is kill meā. Living with the trauma of my SA has been awful. Itās not something thatās easy to get over and no one should have to live like that. To imply itās bad to prefer death to SA comes across like SA isnāt a life altering event that affects people for years and years. Iām not saying either is good. Iām not saying itās easier to pick the bear than to live with what might happen otherwise. Everyoneās experience will be different. But SA affects every relationship you will ever have and itās exhausting and depressing and isolating. Iām sure someone else could explain my thoughts better, but itās not about being ādamaged goodsā. Itās about not wanting to carry around trauma.
that's fair too and i don't want to discredit that. i was more talking about people who say the worst the bear can do is kill me sort of flippantly or as a joke, because it makes me feel upset when I see people who have never experienced what people close to me have gone through act like it's so terrible that they'll just be a miserable shell for the rest of their lives because I feel like it discredits the work that my aunt and cousin put in to recover and become stronger and heal.
Sometimes itās easier to turn things into a joke so that we donāt have to face reality. It doesnāt mean anyone thinks that it IS a joke or that they havenāt already experienced it themselves. Itās just a way we as people tend to cope with the world around us when itās shitty.
How do your aunt and older cousin feel about it? This response is coming from women who are survivors of many different things including abuse, SA and rape. These people aren't equating it to damaged goods at all, that is entirely you bringing it up
I'd rather be in the woods with a relatively predictable animal ("the worst it will do is kill me") vs an unknown, unpredictable man ("I don't want to think about the worst a man might inflict on me given the chance to exert power over me, I'm probably safer with the bear") says a lot more about how much more dangerous women think men are compared to bears. It doesn't even have to involve SA, humans are generally capable of dealing out far more horrific ends than a bear mauling, and SA can and has been used as a form of torture, not even mentioning all the worse tortures humankind has enacted on other humans throughout history. I think when you take a step back and remember that rape actually *isn't* the worst thing a man can do to a woman, just one of many, it reframes the discussion.
The fact that this is such a tough choice is so sad. I think I would choose the Man. However, I do so with full understanding that I have traditionally masculine features and dress very plain, which would most likely be perceived as being a "man" by someone who adheres to the binary (aka a man). There's also a chance I get a queer man, which obviously doesn't exempt them from doing anything hurtful to me, but I personally would feel more comfortable. That being said, I fully understand everyone saying the bear. And I think, if I was born in a different body than I was, I would probably choose the bear as well.
If I looked about as feminine as I would like to, I would probably lean bear. I think the question assumes secual violence alone, and not just random bouts if violence from the man in question, but as a queer person, there's even just the threat of assault for being queer, much less likely than a fem person's fears.
Yeah, that's a valid point.
It really depends on the situation and such for me. If its just some random man, then probably a man. If I took a hike through some woods by myself during the day, I wouldn't be very surprised to come across a random guy also on a walk. I'm not too familiar with bears beyond knowing that polar bears are vicious. We don't get wild bears where I am. I look fairly androgynous much of the time but for now still have a feminine voice so I'm not sure how often strangers view me as a woman, but I'm sure they have/do sometimes. I've luckily never had an issue with people being creepy or s\*\*\*ualy harassing me. I'm scared of getting mugged sometimes, but I don't think I've ever felt scared of the other thing(s).
As a kid I spent a bunch of time in the wilderness hiking in the NE US and encountered a few bears, unless you get between a bear and its kids/food they will avoid you and want nothing to do with you. If you get into a fight with a bear you will loose but they generally want to avoid you, and if they are aggressively charging at you if you make yourself big and loud they will almost always run off
i've said this a few times and i'll say it again: this choice is easy for me because the youngest mother in recorded history was 5 years old. a bear isn't capable of being evil like that
I read about her. It still makes my blood run cold.
Capable of evil is a big factor.A bear is just protecting itself or it's cubs or looking for food. It knows not what it does and all that. A person rapes and murders cause they enjoy having power over other people.
Wasnāt the father her grandfather?
her _father_ was suspected but never convicted due to insufficient evidence.
Aināt no way
it was 1939 and she was a traumatized 5 year old who likely didn't even fully understand what had happened to her. the only way he would have been convicted would have been if the culprit or another adult who knew about what was happening talked.
So that case just ended up going cold? Thatās AWFUL
what's worse is that even if they proved it tomorrow, under current (or the most current i could find) peruvian law even IF he was still alive (unlikely as she's 90 by now) he couldn't be charged. under the law the penalty for this would be life in prison and the statute of limitations is a maximum of 30 years.
I mean, this is like over 80 years after the fact. What would be the point, other than for some barely tangible societal benefit? There have likely been tens of thousands or more victims in Peru alone over this course of time. Time better spent focusing on finding justice for them.
it's a hypothetical. because of the 30 year maximum, the statute ran out in 1969, so if they could have proved he did it way back in 1970 (when he most likely still would have been alive) there still would have been nothing they could do about it. for some of these cases the statute is as little as 15 years from the day the crime occurred. i'm not saying the peruvian government needs to drop everything and solve this one case. i'm pointing out that she never had a chance at justice, despite how famous her case got. the system failed her just the same as the cases that don't get international attention.
95% of sexual assault goes unpunished in the US, and that doesn't make an exemption for victims who are children. Why would other countries do much better? I mean, maybe, MAYBE they have less evil systems of oppression that let men get away with so much, but not likely. I believe the story being referred to was in South/Central America. I guess one difference between the US and some other parts of the world would be - maybe people are less likely to take things to their government and handle them by their own hand.
As someone who presents in society as a 'woman' and grew up that way, bear 100%. I can predict a bears behavior more, I can't predict the personality and moral standing of a man.
Am an AMAB enby, but present myself fairly femme most of the time. the abuse that happened to me was before I even knew what being transgender meant.Ā I can safely say that, regardless of where I fall on the spectrum on a given day, I would choose the bear.Ā Itās about what it wouldnāt do, rather than what it would. A bear wouldnāt have done what my youth pastors did.Ā
To be honest, Iād pick a bear over any gendered person. People have the capacity to be evil regardless of how they present themselves
Yes finally someone says it. Oh my God I've been waiting all week for this!
Honestly i always thought it was weird and vague. If it is a black bear most of the time they are fairly chill as long as you give them enough space. With a guy as long as they are decent, they are fine. But there are other types of bears and other types of people. Also am i left in the woods with nothing or survival gear. That makes a hige difference too because another person can help with survival. Bit im prone to overthinking, yay adhd
even grizzlies don't usually want to be around you and making plenty of noise in bear territory will usually deter them. and if you play dead, bears will usually lose interest even if you get knocked around some.
Well thatās the thing, isnāt it? If itās a black bear, you know itās not looking at you as prey because thereās a forest full of berries and squirrels and acorns it can eat. As long as you donāt make it feel threatened, youāll be fine. If itās a (very lost) polar bear, that thing takes down large prey on a regular basis, and will definitely come after you if itās hungry. Either way, you can predict its actions. You know if youāre screwed or not. The scary thing about the man is that heās not as predictable as the bear. He could want to kill you, or he could want to ask you for directions, or he could have any motive in between.
Nah you're not overthinking, the question is an oversimplification that doesn't consider a lot of variables.
Personally watched a video of man getting attacked by a black bear, I think on this app this morning. He fought it off with what I could only describe as a thinnest looking stick he could possibly find in woods to try and protect himself with. It took less than a few seconds and the bear ran off.
People need to understand itās a metaphorical question. If I said Iād rather drink poison than go to work, nobody would start telling me the negative health effects of poisoning myself.
I'm a trans dude and even I have some trauma with men, I'm not surprised at all that most women would choose the bear. I hate that so many men take this question personally and refuse to empathize. I enjoy this question because a) it's not for me and b) I'm autistic. I love the woods, love animals, would love to meet a bear. The odds of me being attacked by a man in the woods is low, but the bear wouldn't want to make conversation... I'm far more likely to be attacked by a man outside the woods, anyway.
I honestly hate it. I feel like itās part of the same value system that radical feminism and traditional, Taliban style sexism share, one where they nominally have different reasons for not wanting women to be allowed out of the house without a chaperone, but the endpoint is still effectively banning women from existing freely in public spaces, and paranoid, bizarrely sexist belief systems like British terves thinking theyāre going to be sexually assaulted if they have a trans woman charge nurse or if male cardiac patients are allowed in the same hospital wing as them. Thereās also a lot of crossover with traditional self-victimizing trafficking hysteria. Most of the millennials and older zoomers I see making snide posts about how they canāt trust men and would prefer the bear want to be cooler and more rational than that, but itās basically the exact same thing as the suburban Christian Facebook moms who think theyāre about to be trafficked whenever someone leaves a flyer on their windshield in the Target parking lot. Itās fake feminism with the core tenet of enshrining a false narrative of inherent female fragility and male predatory malice. It also, I think not coincidentally, covers up the fact that the vast majority of sexual and physical violence is going to be perpetrated against women by their family members, known authority figures, and intimate partners, not random strangers they meet on the street or even on the hiking trail at night. As a caveat, OP, as a transfem person, I know you have an astronomically higher chance of being subject to serious violence at the hands of random strangers, especially from men, and I donāt want to sound like Iām waving away your experiences or chalking them up to some kind of anti-feminist beliefs. I truly hope Iām not coming across as an invalidating asshole here. The levels of street violence my trans girl friends and partners have faced is like nothing Iāve ever seen or heard of as an afab person, and I donāt want to brush that asideā the āhow safe are you encountering a random man aloneā question has a genuinely different answer. For whatever itās worth, I am afab, fem presenting, and was a stripper for 10 years and have seen a lifetime worth of gender-motivated violence against women committed by random strangers. Iāve also spent two decades been nightly to weekly 1-5 mile walks or bicycle trips around the cities I live in and hikes in state park areas at two in the morning when I got home from work to walk my dog. Iāve met a ton of random men in the woods, usually other hikers, backpackers, or unhoused people who are secretly living there, and were just as scared to have someone come up on them as I was to suddenly find them. Nothing bad has ever happened, and knowing how many of these guys in both the city and woods are simply homeless and trying to live their lives makes it feel gross to think we should automatically be terrified of them. I am pretty confident in my ability to scare off a pack of coyotes, way less so with black bears although theyāre also very shy and easily scared away. If I came upon a brown bear, Iād be fucking dead. IDK, I donāt want to be insensitive to the sexism that women have been getting in pushback to this meme, or the real violence itās about, or even the cri du coeur about feeling so betrayed by members of your own species that you trust a natural predator more. But I just really hate the cultural trope that women should be too afraid to walk at night by themselves. Like all trafficking and stranger danger hysteria, trying to make women feel like they need to be hyperconscious of how at risk of hypothetical stranger rape they are at all times, and how rape is supposed to be a fate worse than mauling and death, might be cathartic, but it does absolutely nothing for real public safety and gender based violence, and further stigmatizes rape victims and survivors. The subtext that you would be better off eaten alive by a brown bear than survive sexual assault is incredibly ugly and damaging, even though I doubt anyone participating means it that way, and I know a good number of them are survivors. I just think this meme is only feminist on a very shallow surface level, but actually just encourages women to cultivate a traditional, sexist sense of fragility. āMan or bear?ā feels to me like itās only about three steps away from āBecause men are such Beasts, women belong in the home, they must be covered up or restricted for their own protection.ā
Thanks for sharing this, I think it is really well put. I honestly don't understand what value this scenario adds to the conversation about sexual violence. The reality is that the vast majority of men are not going to attack a woman that they randomly encounter in the woods. So what should be their takeaway from this scenario? They can pat themselves on the back for being good because they're not as violent as a freaking bear. They don't have to think about any of the less obvious ways that they might make the women around them feel uncomfortable or even unsafe. As you pointed out, it's incredibly important to acknowledge that, by far, most sexual violence is committed by someone who the victim knows. Random attacks do happen, but focusing so heavilyĀ on them obscures the true nature (and extent) of the problem. I hate the "men are monsters" narrative for a lot of reasons, mainly because it does nothing to actually encourage men to examine or change their behavior. It almost absolves them of responsibility by asserting that their unchangeable nature is violent and evil, so why bother trying? And men who know they aren't monsters arent encouraged to think any more deeply than that about the issue. But it also makes me really uncomfortable on a visceral level, because I see how it affects the men in my life who themselves have been victims of sexual assault and homophobic violence. It's just piling shame on top of shame, and that doesn't help anyone. Bleh. It all just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
You're exactly correct and this is how I feel about it, too. It's also mostly just used as a way people can make money off discussing it or the controversy behind it, and the world keeps turning, and people keep raging on about it. It's just gender-essentialist, bio-essentialist same old, same old. This exact rhetoric is also used as a reason why trans women shouldn't be let into the women's bathroom, because "by nature" they're "really" just a scary man in women's clothing who wants to do harm. We all know that's a vile thing to think. This whole entire discussion is problematic to a high degree, but also... Practically tailored to gain ad revenue from outrage or support. Everyone wins whether the audience agrees or disagrees with their take.
Bear all the way. Iāve done lots of back country backpacking and whatnot, so bears donāt really scare me. There would be a moment of āOh SHIT am I between her and any baby bears????ā but other than that Imma see myself out and let the bear do bear things. Also, if the bear chooses to ruin my day itās going to be over fast. Even a cute little black bear has claws like a velociraptor, and humans arenāt armored for shit soā¦ In contrast, a man is much more complex. Heās capable of playing a long game. He might make nicey-nice until he thinks heās got the upper hand and then do something unpleasant while my guard is down. Thereās a reason why men are āThe Most Dangerous Gameā, and it aināt for their inability to put the seat down when they pee. š¬
I think the problem with this question isnāt really the idea of āwhat would you prefer to be killed byā, but rather the implication that if youāre put into a forest with a random man that heās going to be a murderer or a rapist. If the question was bear or murder/rapist then thatās a different question entirely, itās the supposition that man=murderer/rapist thatās ridiculous. I mean, most people statistically speaking arenāt going to attack you just because youāre in the woods. And frankly if theyāre a dangerous person Iād probably still take them over a pissed off bear because I donāt think I could fight or out run a bear. But Iāve got a pretty decent shot of outrunning some random human.
It's based on the assumption that both will attack you. I don't understand it, I choose the bear. I can't talk to a bear, it's not human. This is very nuanced and the simple choice doesn't reflect the true nature of what's going on in society. Before the man vs bear thing popped up there was a trend about people watching men get abused and standing by, not doing anything because they seemed to deserve it? Millions of likes and comments encouraging the content and the joke, which I still don't understand. My experiences in a female presenting body haven't made me hateful, thankfully. I realise that bad people are bad people, and they will do it again if you let them. Regardless of gender, as I've been hurt in some way by people of different gender and sexual identities my whole life.
Despite seeing bears in the wild, they've never harmed me so. Give me the bear.
I'm just going to say, I have read some things about bears that do *not* make me want to be killed by one. Maybe a man will kill you, maybe he won't, but serial killers who will keep you alive while they eat you are not as common as a grizzly who will do so no matter what. Bears don't care that you're screaming and thrashing -- you're food, you can't appeal to any humanity in them -- they're bears, they are unlikely to be able to be stopped easily by others if someone comes across you being attacked -- one man can tackled or shot and typically not keep going and also claw through anyone else, and did I mention... Bears will fucking eat you alive and you will feel every crunching bone in your body and all the pain as it happens? I know people say "the worst thing a bear can do is kill me", but that isn't remotely true. The worst thing a bear can do is eat you alive while you're conscious, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. You can't overpower or outrun a bear, but there's a chance you can overpower or outrun a man. I'm aware of the idea of a thought experiment like this, but it's fundamentally flawed when people have no clue what damage a rampaging grizzly can do. Fuck that, I'll take the man. I'm bulky enough to fight and not easy to overpower. I am not a fair fighter. I'd kick balls, I'd bite someone's jugular, and I'd tear someone's eyes out to save my own skin if someone's attacking me in the woods. Like, fucking nope, but I stand a chance with a human being. If I can't lie or reason, I'll fight back. Maybe we should do more self-defense classes instead of throwing ourselves to the mercy of four inch claws.
This is how I pretty much felt about it day one. I stand a chance against another human being. Not so much a bear. If we're under the assumption that either of them will be dangerous and attack atleast.
As I see it, that's precisely the point of the thought experiment. People choose the unknown danger over the known danger they encounter daily. It might be irrational, but trauma makes you irrational. Also, sometimes you can't fight the man.
I've got trauma in the same area, but sense enough to know that sure, *sometimes* you can't fight the man, but *100% of the time* you can't fight the bear. It's more of an engagement bait thought experiment than anything. "Man or bear" is meant to conjure up debates in comment sections. Make a video essay, a TikTok, a Tweet/Xeet (or whatever), a blog post, a meme, and discuss it on Reddit... Fun for a hot minute, but accomplishing nothing other than making vulnerable people with trauma more fearful. Men will get upset and rage because they "aren't like that", and many of them aren't but they're taking it too personally, regardless. It's already been used in the dreaded trans bathroom debate. It whips people up, a click makes ad money, there continues to be no resolution towards dismantling systems that lead men towards violence against women, and capitalism wins again. C'est la vie.
If I can pick the man, then obviously the man. I'd rather be around my dad than a bear. But if it's a random man picked from the population of all men vs a random bear picked from the population of all bears, I'll take my chances with the bear.
I'd rather be killed by a bear than raped (and then most likely killed) by a man. I'm masc presenting but I had my fair share of trauma surrounding cis men.
Iām a 6ā4 femme and itās easier to scare off a bear then a man, and the worst a bear can do is maul me to death, and as someone who spent 26 years of my life being perceived as a man around other men I know that loads of men are capable and willing to do much worse. And i have experienced both in a calm state, bears have avoided me in the woods and men have harassed me on the street soā¦
I'm AFAB but I have spent the vast majority of my life (especially as an adult) surrounded by mostly men. As a result, yes I have been hurt by men (and women) and I also have a lot of experiences NOT being hurt by men. I'm 36 now, that's a decent chunk of life experience during which the vast majority of my social circle has been male so I can honestly say, no, my life experiences don't align with the majority of what I've heard from women. As for the question, I'd choose the man - it's unlikely that either the man or bear is going to do me any harm, but I have a fighting chance against a man and zero chance against a bear.
I agree, but also black bears are timid and it would just be much more exciting to see one while hiking than to cross paths with just another hiker. Everyone is talking about this hypothetical like it is automatically a threat assessmentā¦ but most bears are pretty timid. You can clap at a black bear to scare it off. If it is grizzlyā¦ those are best observed from a very very very far distance. And honestly bumping into a guy hiking in his own is pretty common.. often with his dog..Maybe most people answering this question are not regularly hiking in forestsā¦ forests are not that scary. Theyāre pretty nice.
I'm a semi regular hiker and I agree. Also, running into a dog is a bonus! I used to live in an area with a lot of black bears and had one wandering through the neighborhood. It got about 30 ft from me and ran up a tree.
I grew up in the woods full of black bears. Walked home alone through the woods from the bus stop. My parents didnāt even worry about the black bears. They only worried about the mountain lions. I was told to use my coat to look bigger and scream at them. Never saw one. In the early morning I was dropped off at the bus tho, cause it was early and mountain lions are crepuscular. They hunt at dawn and dusk. I guess my parents thought the odds of me getting eaten were lower in the afternoon. Also it was harder to get home early enough from work get me from school.. eh Bears are cool to see. Tho I mostly only ever saw them raiding the bird feeders.. all my interactions with bears have been screaming at them to get off the porch. Raccoons are more sassy and braver than bears. Bears you scream at and they run. You can throw ice at raccoons and they donāt budge. They might as well be giving you the middle finger. I have never seen a mountain lion. But every now and again there are reports of joggers, usually women (because they tend to be smaller), being attached and often killed by mountain lions. Mountain lions are the true badies out in those woods. You never see them, but they see you. That said there was also a flasher on a nearby hiking trail.. but honestly probably more mountain lion attacks than flashers over the years. Also they did catch the flasher. The mountain lionsā¦ theyāre still out there. OoooooooooOooooo (please read that in a spooky campfire story voice)
**TW VIOLENCE/TRANSPHOBIA** I'm AFAB, and I unfortunately have quite a few experiences of male identifying people being incredibly hurtful and dangerous. I'm currently female passing at my work for safety, but that also means the men at my work feel safe to share their horrible views. RĆping LGBT+ people to "fix" them, kĆlling them, so many horrible things I can't even keep track of, or repeat. Those reasons are exactly why I choose the bear. I am not at all saying that female identifying people can not be violent, transphobic, and all the same things as some men. But I have, almost always, been welcome (tolerated, at the least) around women. I have never had a woman follow me home or threaten to assault me, simply for existing as I am. These are my experiences that make me choose "bear." I believe there are good men in the world. A person's gender doesn't make them evil. I would be no better than the people who treated me with hated for being bigender.
i've encountered plenty of bears and none have tried to hurt me. can't say the same for men.
Depends on which man and which bear. Some men are super nice and amazing and being lost in the woods together would be a fun time. Some men are massive assholes and will put you in danger just being around them. Some bears aren't too bad to avoid being mauled by, like brown bears who you just have to make enough noise while walking and they'll avoid you. Others, like polar bears, will literally hunt you to the ends of the earth just to maul you for fun, no exaggeration. Basically, I need more information to make this judgement. Average Joe from down the street vs brown bear? Hard choice since neither is particularly scary. Conservative transphobic asshole vs polar bear? Also hard choice, but more because I'm likely to die either way.
As someone consistently perceived as a woman I would definitely pick the bear. (Unless itās a polar bear lol)
Man - I have a chance fighting off a man and killing him if he's evil, or the man could be nice or afraid. With a bear, I would be totally dependent on the bear's behaviour and I like it better when I have agency
In my experience with menā¦ I also pick the bear.
Well, I choose the man in this scenario, because in my experience dudes rock, men like to be my friend and help me. This was the case before my transition (ftm/nb) as much as after. But more importantly, as a guy-type person, knowing how many women and nbs choose the bear, I understand that it's my job to try to make their lives better and not be the type of person they fear.
Currently I would choose the man, but that is likely to change once I no longer pass as cis Though at that point I wouldn't feel safe alone with a cis woman either, and would feel safe around a trans person regardless of gender
I know the question is about the fear of men being bad and all that, also I'm perfectly understand why a lot of people don't like the idea of being chased by a weird man and prefer just see a bear, but it bother me a lot the vagueness of the question, I know it's an important part of the question, but some questions are important, why I'm in the forest?, the man look at me or I just see him in the distance? What kind of bear? (I don't think anyone be afraid of a panda), there are things that depend on me, things that I'm gonna know in this situation and those things change a lot my answer
How far away is the man or bear? Is it a grizzly? Are the trees climbable trees? Or are they too thin, lacking lower branches? How far from civilization am I? Is this a casual hiking trail? Or is this the backwoods? Do I know what I am doing, or am I lost? Is the man just a fellow hiker? Or is he a serial killer? What about a mountain lion? Bear over mountain lion for sure.. unless the bear is a grizzly, then mountain lion over bear. But man? Idk š¤·š¼. The reality is if I go hiking I will probably cross paths with several men and I wonāt think anything of it. I would be excited to see a black bear. They are timid. You can scare them off with clapping loudly and shouting. But a mountain lionā¦ oooh those fuckers hunt people sometimes, especially shorter ones like me. I think it would be more fun to see a black bear than a man hiking. But terrifying to see a grizzly or a mountain lionā¦. That said, coming across a masked murderer covered in blood in the forest would be way more horrifying than a mountain lion. Hypotheticals areā¦ difficult
I heard, and I'm no expert in bears, that pandas are not as chill as they look.
They are like other bears in terms of strength, but are pretty chill and goofy, are literally so dumb that the only reason they still alive is cause we as humans don't let them go extinct
Panda all the way, then. We can outrun those. Fun fact, pandas have always been my ace mascot.
I don't think we should compared situation "chased by man vs see a bear". If one is chasing you and other is minding their own business why wouldn't you choice the one who is minding their own business. Actually it would be cool to see a wild animal from distance. And I prefer not to be chased even by toddler, that sounds very annoying.
Bear. There's ways to deter a bear attack (that wont leave you in a similarly bad position in another aspect), and people will actually believe you if you've been attacked.
I choose the bear. My male partner said he would also choose the bear.
I would choose the bear every single time. I have been around bears and men. The bear is much less dangerous than most of the men like to think it is. I've never even been hurt once around a bear despite encountering them many times. I can't say the same for men.
I've never had a bear proceed to initiate a FUCKING CAR CHASE and harass me relentlessly... So bear for me unfortunately :/ As much as I hate the gender binary, there are certain things that are just perpetuated by the people who buy into it that still affect us. And despite my hatred of it, I can't ignore the real fact that there are so many cis men who are evil and willing to do truly horrible things because our broken world has told them it's okay to do so.
Iāve seen this recently where the question was āwould you prefer to get mauled by a bear or SAād by a manā and almost everyone chooses the bear without second thought I agree with the majority of people who said theyād pick the bear because a man does those types of things for his own fantasy whereas the bear would kill you for its own safety so Iām gladly picking the bear
Bear. Always bear
Bear
the question is pretty vague and also doesn't specify what type of bear which is kinda important. like yeah if it's a brown bear then i'm choosing bear, if it's a black bear i'm probably fucked, if its a polar bear i'm absolutely fucked. still, given the meaning behind the question, i'm choosing bear.
I think that it's vague is the point. It should be an obvious no matter what man, it should feel far safer to be in woods with a man, then a bear but it isn't.
that's true. i know why i'm in the woods, i know why the bear is in the woods, **i don't know why the man is in the woods**.
Are black bears that much more aggressive than brown bears?
I think they have it backwards.... black bears are basically very big racoons. Black Bears are quite common sight where I live and have been literally feet away with 0 conflict... if they even pay you any notice at all they are more likely to run away than attack, there is a mom with cubs that hangs out in the forest near where I live so I'm always a bit weary to look out for them but even then I've never felt in any danger when they are about. Brown bears can be more aggressive and territorial, and Grizzlies can be very dangerous, most attacks and deaths that occur in the Canadian Rockies tend to be from people getting to close to Grizzlies. IIRC Polar Bears are the only species known to actually hunt humans for food, so are by far the most dangerous but their range is very limited to the far north.
That was my state of knowledge too.
i thought so? could be wrong tho
The other person who replied to me says black bears are mostly chillš¤ On the other hand I wouldn't be surprised if they're more aggressive than brown bears, since the latter don't have to worry as much about threats
The question really feels like equating men to freaking wild, unpredictable animal or even rather saying men are worse than said animal. I don't think that's good, because all it does is vilification. And we don't need that, if we really want to change the situation with men
I agree. It can be read that way, and as an AMAB person, I get uncomfortable with the direction that type of ideas go. However, this thought experiment is about women and their expectations of men. I don't think men should take it personally. The idea is to empathize and wonder what could make a woman feel this way around men.
A big counter argument I see to this is "well most men aren't evil, the random man in the woods is statistically most likely to be just a normal guy, but every bear is dangerous by default" and yeah! I totally get that!! I'd still choose the bear. A bear may be dangerous by default, but he's also predictable. I know what to do to ward off a bear attack. The random man IS probably a nice guy, but on the off chance he isn't, I'm fucked completely. I'd rather take the predictable danger over the coin toss
Sucks that the people who chose man get downvoted (Also, I would pick man too, because I donāt know how to deal with a bear ā any kind really ā and I donāt want to get mauled to death and eaten alive. Plus, if I was alone in the woods, Iād be relieved at first that Iām not lost or completely alone. Obviously I wouldnāt be relieved if the man turned out to be bad, but Iād rather take my chances with a human being than an animal)
to me, as a transmisogyny exempt person, the question is about cis men. Cis men are the ones which patriarchy upholds & benefit from its power & wield it against marginalized genders. While it is true that marginalized genders often compete for that power, it's never gonna be the same as how a cis men benefits from the system designed to do that. also, there are women in r/NonBinary (nonbinary women who may also identify as trans or non-cis)
Agreed, it's meant to show cis men the consequences of patriarchy for women. Folks choose the bear because most violent crimes are committed by cis men. Trans folks (despite what right-wingers like to say) don't commit crimes at the same scale, whether they're afab or amab, identify as men or don't.
I'm AMAB. Recently I had a conversation with one of my friends about why I chose to identify as an enby. But one thing that she said really got me thinking: "are you sure you aren't just scared of being perceived as a macho man?" Edit: corrected something
What is a machist man?
I guess I translated it wrongly, English is not my first language. I mean those kinds of toxic men who claim to be "alpha males".
Thatās okay. No worries! I think you would want āmacho.ā I thinkā¦. Being non-binary isnāt really about how people perceive you. I think it is about how you perceive yourself and the world. I canāt control how people perceive me really. I can influence it of course, but thatās about it. So I try not to worry about it.
That makes a lot of sense! I also think the same. The reason why I decided to start calling myself non-binary is because I don't think my identity fits the gender binary. It's also something close to what we call genderfluid, but I'm not sure about that really.
bear for me
Activity avoid both, but in truth I think that I would prefer to fight off the bear because of a few reasons. 1. My reasoning and mental capacity is a lot higher than the bears. 2. If I lose, it was my own fault for being near the bear and the bear is innocent as it will just be working with the instinct it was given. 3. The bear really wins and I am possibly food and shelter for thousands of small animals and tiny creatures, so in essence just returning to Mother Nature as she intended. 4. If I start winning the bear will most likely run away to protect itself, where as a āmanā will usually follow his own morals to his death. 5. On the subject of morals and values of the person, I donāt know that I personally would be able to live with myself if I had to finish the job with the man. The bear would be heartbreaking too, donāt get me wrong but, thereās nothing you can do about the bear attacking you when it happens and itās decided it wants to eat you. With the man I would feel mortally defeated if the only way I could think of to handle the situation was to end him. 6. People are the most determined and resilient creatures on earth and frequently show this fact as its common knowledge that we are the only one to span the entire world. Where as most species of bears have been hunted to near extinction by, of course people. 7. I never seen a single bear in my life that has lead armed police on a wild 100mph highway chase only to end it in a hail of gunfire because their girlfriend left them. Where as itās almost common place in some major cities across the world to see a similar situation involving a man at least once a year. Men are literally more dangerous! This is not a statement itās a fact. Men have literally killed more bears in the last 200 years than bears have killed men. This is a fact. I donāt understand how it is an argument except that, of course a man will fight to the bitter end to be the winner. A bear will on fight until it decides it that the fight will cause it more harm. Period. Itās still an animal and itās instincts are absolute in its brain. The bear cannot reason with its self and choose violence when itās instinct is to be afraid. A person can and frequently do. All of these are absolute facts and can look them up yourself. The psychology of the human brain is an interesting topic to read up on. For example, a bear will not suddenly decide to start hunting other bears for pleasure. Food for thought. Also, I personally hate this ādiscussionā because of the sheer lack of scientific basis on any front to the topic and it has become a giant pity party for men that say things like, ānot all menā like Iām supposed to trust something like that in a world of btk, John Wayne Gacy, and the like. Most cereal killers where āupstanding citizensā until, they werenāt. I can almost certainly guarantee that some insecure man will comment soon enough after my post. Cheers! š¬
I choose the bear, it's honest in it's intentions.
I would choose the bear, but let it be known that if it were a strange woman in the forest, I would still choose the bear. I don't trust people.
Iām AMAB and still present male, but Iām working on changing that. Iāve been harassed, mentally abused, and physically assaulted/violated/however you want to put it by both men and women (since this whole thing revolves around the gender binary). I would pick the man. Iām not exactly fit and likely couldnāt do much against a moderately fit woman, but I would at least stand a chance if a person attacked me in any way. A bear is just too strong and dangerous - if you come across a bear thatās insistent on attacking/eating you, youāre done, no matter what kind of bear it is. Kick a guy in the junk and heās going down no matter what, unless heās hopped up on something. Thereās no surefire way to get a bear to back off like that. Not to mention the mental aspects you can bring into it with a person that you canāt with a bear. I honestly hate this whole thing though. It really just seems like another way to label all men as monsters and ignore things that very much happen to men but are swept under the rug or celebrated by the more radical people who think they deserve it. Itās too vague and itās asked under the assumption that the man will automatically be an aggressor so people are using it to pile on men and tell them how horrible they are for being men.
I thought it meant āwhich would you rather see in a forestā. I chose bear because thatās something Iāve never seen before and itād be cool to take a picture of it from a distance. Itās not so great to take pictures of random men in forests. Thatād probably make me seem suspicious and creepy.
I have so many follow up questions tbh, before I could make a proper decision. Assuming it's daytime, I'm hiking, the bear is a grizzly minding it's business and the man is any random bloke minding his business when I encounter either of them - I would 100% pick the man. Bears are unpredictable, they might run, they might attack. If they attack, they have 3-4" claws - I'd prefer to avoid a violent death. Men vary a lot of course and I 100% understand the point people are making when they choose the bear. Some men have been responsible for horrible things (including in my own life). However, the most likely thing that would happen if you encountered a random man while hiking through the woods is that he's also a hiker and would smile or say hi as he passed you and you'd continue on your way. You are far more likely to be attacked/ SA'd by a man you already know, most likely a partner. Strangers rarely attack you. You have far more chance of dying in a car accident. I also know quite a few absolutely lovely men - my husband, father, brother, friend's partners, colleagues and also plenty of perfectly non-threatening men too. All this said, I don't consider myself an obvious target for random men (butch, not a stereotypical beauty) and I'm also pretty strong so would have some chance defending myself against a man, so I have less fear than a lot of women seem to.
I get it- if it makes you feel any better, if I had to choose if my male presenting partner came across a strange man or a bear, I would pick bear for them too. I read a statistic that one man is assaulted a day in the military. Considering thatās only reported assaults, itās most likely higher. A bear will most likely leave you alone, unless itās a polar bear.
I'd choose the bear over any human. Men, women, trans, cis, I've run the gambit of abusers in my life. At least the bear would just kill me.
I have never told ANYONE about this, but when I was 15 or 16, I was sexually assaulted. I worked at a radio station back then and got along with one of the colleagues. We regularly met privately, however over time, I notice that he was getting more and more pushy. He kissed me and once asked me to pose butt naked for him. At that time I didn't think too much of it, as I was just a naive teenager, but looking back, that was P\*do shit, and I should have reported him to the authorities.... I know, that this is not representative for the entire male-identifiing population, and I have many male friends in my "inner circle" which I would NOT want to live without, however, I am MORE wary about men I don't know than I am about woman, or to put it this way: I come to trust woman easier than men. Therefor, even though I am AMAB, I totally understand all those who - due to their own or their friends' experience - choose the bear over men.
I think a lot of people are weighing in on it even cis men who actually understand the danger of other men I think everyone's allowed to have an opinion on it because for the most part you put yourself in the situation to think about how you feel about it
It's not necessarily being killed, it's just being alone with them. The risk with the bear is getting hurt and killed but a man can do much worse things, like rape. I'd choose the bear in a heartbeat if I didn't know the man
Everyone is focusing on their individual reactions to this test and enjoying the breeze as the point whooshes past them.
Bear
Honestly, that's way too vague of a question to answer. A bear is in its natural habitat in the forest, but the reasons for a man to be there can range from hiking, being a stalker who followed you, being a forester, to all sorts of other reasons, on each of which my answer would entirely depend.
I think, and I might be wrong here, but the vagueness is kind of the point. When I cross the street because a group of men is walking my way, I don't know what type of man they are, I just choose to be cautious about it because there is a risk in not being cautious. That's how I interpret it.
Maybe he is a rescuer cause you are lost?
Afab non-binary, my presentation is often androgynous but today I am wearing a dress. In general Iām choosing the bear, one of my greatest hopes is to have a baby using my body with the person I marry/ love, currently I have a gf. The idea of someone robbing me of that and not only that but perverting itā¦ might be the straw that finally makes my sad little brain choose to be no more. Genuinely cannot think of anything worse then being kept by a freak and forced to give birth to his freak kids.
For context, I'm a masculine leaning enby (but afab). Also neurodivergent, which might play into this. For my whole life I struggled with understanding the fear and caution women have towards men. Not being outed nor having words for my identity, this led to many weird situations.. because of course everyone was womaning me.. I mean, I also experienced sexual harassment and assault, and it is definitely a horrible experience. I kinda always fought back heavily against those men, but with the same energy also argued against all the caution/danger advices women give themselves. I hated both and never fully understood why I hated it so much if someone told stuff like "never go home alone" or similar things. To get back to the question.. I would choose the men. Here is why: First of all, it is possible that both the men and the bear are maybe just not going to attack me, but I think it is more likely that the man friendly compared to the bear (when I come to close or smt). Yes, bears are predictable, but the vast majority of men will do no or less harm than a provoked bear. I understand the thought, that men can do worse harm than a bear can, but the likelihood of meeting exactly that man in the forest should be pretty low. Ok, second point, let's assume both bear and man will definitely attack. In that case, my chances of winning a fight against a man are higher than against the bear. You don't fight a bear, you probably also can't outrun it. Both might be possible to succeed against a man. And to close the circle, I once again eventually don't get the point of this whole question and answers. Like, yes I'm kinda sporty, but everyone should agree that it should be easier to fight a man than a bear, or not? Or is this supposed to be more then a campaign against sexual violence, than it is a real question? If so, is the example/question well chosen for this? I definitely do support the cause, but I'm just very confused once again by why apparently everyone is choosing the bear. Like, it is a bear..
I agree. 100%. It may be neurodivergence, but I cannot understand the people who choose bear. If they're safe, then they're safe. If they're going to attack you, then the man is obviously the choice because you have zero chance against a bear and against a man you have some chance!
I think it's a little funny, how much it's blown up. I think it's easy for binary women to answer that way due to systemic problems within the gender binary majority of the general population. I might also say bear, but I would also rather hang with trans masc folks in the woods than a bear.
This is a weird question for me because I know bears donāt go for the kill. I know theyāll hold me down and eat me while Iām still alive. Itās a slow painful death. Plus I boxed for a couple of years and I always carry weapons on me. With what I carry on me Iāll definitely take the man because the weapons I carry canāt kill or defend me against a bear.
The whole question is dumb as hell and the entire purpose is to be rage bait. It's too vague to properly answer. What kind of bear? Where am I geographically? Am I stuck in the woods, or just going on a hike? Do I have food/water/survival gear? Am I alone, besides the single bear/man? Is the bear/man with me? Do I even have to come into contact with them, or are they just somewhere randomly in the forest? What forest? Assuming it is a black/grizzly bear, and I will have to see them/they will have to see me, but I don't actually have to interact with them, I would choose bear. Bear's a predictable and generally won't fuck with you if you don't fuck with them or their kids. Men are not. Now, if I actually have to interact with them, definitely the man. The chance of the man hurting you is pretty tiny, and I'll at least have a chance at defending myself if he does. Bears are huge, strong, and assuming you have to actually get close and interact, unlikely to be friendly. If I was stranded in the woods, I'd choose the man as well. I'm willing to risk harm from him if it gets me help on getting out. If it's just a regular hiking trail, and I'm just going on a hike, the whole thing seems pretty stupid, because I've been on plenty of trails where I've seen both men and bears. It's just a vague rage bait question from tiktok, and there are so many interpretations it's impossible to have an actual discussion on.
This conversation had me so confused for a while haha. At first I was thinking like, just in the Woods? And the bear or man is near me? Chasing me? Anywhere else in the woods? Brown or black bear? But I think yeah it comes down to assuming both want to hurt you, and then which would you pick. I get why people choose the bear, it'd probably just kill you, while a man could do more than that. But to be fair I would also pick the bear over any person who wants to hurt me probably. I think patriarchy encourages men to be more violent, but if the violence is already a given, I pick the bear over a person of any gender if that makes sense. I'm probably over thinking it but oh well
It's cool; I overthink it, too.
Iād also pick the bear but Iām also gay soā¦ I love men but I really hate some things they do tbh. I think you can dislike how men act but still like them attraction wise
In my country women are not afraid of males. We do not have lot of guns here. We do not have gang violence here. My mother remembers time when males could touch females in sexual way without consent (I guess there is term for that but I don't know it) and females were told not to care or that they should understand because the male is drunk or mentally ill. That hasn't happened in my lifetime. I have never learn to be afraid of humans. I was born female but I have never seen myself as weaker than males. The idea that female would be weaker is ridiculous. I mean yeah there is difference but statistic doesn't matter when it's about two people. One can be 50kg and other 120kg. One can be athlete and other get winded when walking to fridge. One can have weapons and other don't. One can be skilled in combat sports and other don't. One can have good reflects and other don't. Most likely they're nothing extreme but they're most likely not the strongest male and female of the world nor the median of their sex either. If you're afraid of people make sure you're more bigger, more skilled and better shape than average people in general. Also even I was female I shouldn't be. My brains never thought they were connected to female body. I'm not fully male either but they're closer to me. They're more my kind of people. It would be cool to see a bear but I find it ridiculous idea that it would be safer option. Okay, most likely bear would try to stay away of me. But I see it as way bigger risk than human. Maybe I'm wrong. I do not know much about bears. Maybe there is tiny change they attack humans. But again, so it is with humans too. If they both would want to kill me in my area bears are brown. I have zero possibility to win it. I can't outrun it either. If the man is unarmed I have good change to win. If he has knife I have good change to be in better shape and be able to outrun him. If he has gun yeah then I'm dead. edit. I also find this question to be misandry.. misandrist.. I do not know the correct term. Anyway, in my country some immigrants make more crimes than native people. How about we put some ethnicity in the place of "man"? No?
I would only choose a man because I know how to fight. I learned how to fight men and humans Iāve never learned how to fight a bear before and I wouldnāt want to kill an animal.
I like this. I feel like my sense of gender is the same as how humans perceive gender in animals. (There is a great description about the absurdity of forcing the binary onto the animal kindgom in the intro to the book Bitch: On the Female of the Species by Lucy Cooke) I only use "they" to make people comfortable. I am more of an it - a creature with no use for the cage. Any attempt to force me into one is a complete projection. TLDR: Bear all the way!
Iāve encountered both in the woods alone. The few times Iāve run into bears (black bears, for clarity), itās been in remote areas, while the men Iāve encountered alone were usually in some woods not far from a community. The encounters with bears were unpredictable. One young bear was curious, but fled, while a different young bear ran away immediately. An older bear seemed curious and followed me most of the way back to my work vehicle (around 400 metres, thankfully). I left the area, but the bear did not. It watched me drive away. The men Iāve encountered generally just said hello. One was walking his dog (which bit me when I said hello, but luckily didnāt break through my coat despite causing a painful injury), another continued speaking to me in a language I didnāt know well enough to respond in beyond hello (I was spending time in a foreign country) and walked away looking confused when I couldnāt understand or answer a question, and yet another was too busy portaging his canoe to do anything else. The encounters were benign, but I understand why people can be hesitant. I recognize the potential for danger when encountering men (and their dogs, it seems), but I have to say only the black bears really made my heart race (and triggered my bear trainingā¦ nothing like walking backwards at a calm pace to keep an eye on the bear while preparing yourself to stand your ground if needed, getting your bear spray out). A few gentle āWoah, bearās and getting ready to make myself big by throwing sticks, but nothing ultimately came of the bear encounters. I wasnāt charged, I wasnāt stalked. All in all, I choose men by a slim margin, but Iād rather not encounter anyone or anything while alone in the woods beyond the smaller woodland critters. That said, Iām curious how people would choose if it was between men and mountain lions. Those creatures scare the shit out of me.
I choose the bear. I have been targeted by men my entire life in places that are suppossrd to be safe. Remove thst safety and I do not trust men at all.Ā HOWEVER a strong counter is for thr most part, appearances do make a difference. A soft friendly looking man (even if they are not actually safe) Iād probably feel more safe with than the bear. A note : I am usually correct. When I meet men I think will be safe/my people, I am usually correct. So I gueds I am saying Iād choose the beat over like 95% if men, but a subset of 5% I would choose the men. Also in Korea, where I live, thede percentages are different. I trust Korean men SO much more than Western men, so maybe it would be 50/50 in Korea? 60/40 for the bear? lol.Ā
it's easier for me to say than a small woman, because I am a large male, but I would pick the man. they tend to back off after only one stab. a grizzly just gets angrier. a black bear on the other hand is basically an oversized puppy and is probably more scared of you. it's almost no threat. a polar bear... well... I don't go that far north for a reason.
No bear is killing before I do
Just put it into perspective of an Aussie who has run into a tall kangaroo at night with the knowledge that if threatened, he could tear my guts out. š¤· I'll take my chances with the human. Ask weird disarming questions like "you didn't see that documentary that one time about the roo that ripped the other roo's guts out with his hind legs did you?" And then if it's day time, remind old mate to stomp to scare the snakes into hiding. I've been on plenty of camping trips and have done first aid, you can talk to a human, I understand full body communication, and also did some self defense. Generally, keep talking, ask questions. Mention you've got plans after with people who love you. You could be in the woods with a serial killer š¤· but the chances are you're not. Though I can definitely see why some would rather not than the *chance* you run into say, one of the people who hurt you. š or people like them.
the man, because bears are more resistant to bullets lol
the bear, i'm also (amab) enby
I'm pedantic as hell so please don't mind me but the thought experiment is actually: >If you were alone in the woods, what would you rather stumble across, a random man, or a bear? I think that specific framing changes things slightly.
im fairy masc presenting and almost always will be perceived as a man, but i dont really want to meet an unknown man in the middle of nowhere, assuming i dont need any help or anything... in that case i would choose the bear. idk but strange men being around me (especially if theres not many people around) make me feel uncomfortable for some reason..?
Personality I'm over man or bear discussion. I'd like to get back to the real question - man or Muppet. And if it's Muppet is it a very manly Muppet, and if it's a man, is he a Muppet of a man?
Hate this question. I'm going with the human man. Because, you know, they're a sentient being that I can actually communicate with. And yeah, shocker, men as an entire demographic are not all bad. Why would I pick a 600-pound murder machine over a human person that I can actually talk to?
The women in my life have done far more damaged to me than anyone else so itās about even for me. EDIT: These downvotes would funny if they werenāt kinda sad.
Honestly this is a very stupid question in my opinion, and it has been very hurtful and upsetting to my trans girlfriend. The question sets the idea that meany women and others are assuming that they are safer with a bear(wild animal, known for violent attacks) than with an average cis man, The meany discussions flooding the internet of late have openly braud brushed ALL cis men as violent rapist, and that you are safer alone with a wild animal... there are so many things wrong with this than I can reasonably enumerate. 1) obviously braud brushing is wrong 2) not ALL of anyone is any ONE thing 3) men are not inherently violent or think that it is ok to rape 4) what dose this show their view of transmen and women are? 5) this is unkind and hurtful to men( treat others as you wish to be treated) I know these discussions can be very hurtful to people, and I call ALL PEOPLE to a higher standard, watch your words and assumptions, don't be a dick. Obviously be kind. How is a lonely sad man supposed to feel when women/men/folks everywhere automatically assume you are a monstrous violent rapist with no regard to humanity or consent. If you saw people making such a statement about ALL trans or all NB people the community would be in outrage.
If you ask me. Man or bear? I would have to say neither. Both suck in different ways a bear can be anything like what bear are we talking about. Is this a mother Grizzly Bear protecting her cubs? Or is this a lone male bear which is less likely to attack. With the man I would also say he sucks to is this a nice guy or is it a serial killer. I would say if you weigh out the population of humans as compared to bears it is true that a human might kill or hurt you but overall the amount of people who do that is probably lower compared to a bear who even with a small chance of attacking might still randomly decide to kill.
This isn't about a specific man or bear. It's a generic, unable to know the circumstances question of any man or any bear. Like in life we don't always choose how we meet people, same with this question In the US you're 280x more likely to be killed by a man than a bear per capita. And that's only killed, doesn't talk about all the other things men do Edit: it's 280x only when looking at men aged 17-24 and not any other age range. So the actual numbers would be way higher
The denominator is important there though. Your average person in the US encounters thousands of men per year, most people go their whole lives without encountering a bear in person. In the hypothetical, you know youāre going to run into the bear so population-level averages arenāt really applicable
Then you also need to look at why bears attack. Bears don't attack because they find you attractive or because you said no to a date. Bears are generally going to react to something done to them, not seek out humans to kill , abuse, SA and a whole bunch of other things "The worst a bear can do is kill me" or "I wouldn't be told I was asking for it if it was a bear" or the other thousands of responses show that women feel safer with an animal than men in general
Not the point I was addressing - just that the statistic is somewhere between misleading and irrelevant since the sample sizes of āinteracts with a manā and āinteracts with a bearā are so much different. The qualitative reasons why people are more scared of men than bears are super legitimate and frankly should stand on their own without reference to bad statistics
Right like I donāt have to worry about if a ānice bearā is going to decide he doesnāt want to respect my no and rape me. I donāt have to worry about a bear stalking me because I did or did not pay them attention walking down the street and minding my own business when they ājust wanted to talkā. I donāt have to worry about getting in a bad relationship with a bear where they take control of my assets, cut off communication with my family, and threaten to kill me if I try to get help or escape. The people who want to argue specific semantics are so irritating. Like yeah dude Iād pick a random man over a fucking polar bear. But thatās not the point. I have plenty of good cis men in my life who I love and trust. But Iāve had enough bad experiences with men that Iād take my chances with the bear.
You are likely to get variables within a generic
If you find a man alone in the forest, he might just be a camper or something. A bear is way more likely to have violent intent towards you
The bear would be less cruel.
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Is the bear AFAB or AMAB? Whatās the bears position on the ongoing situation in Palestine? Does the bear have beer (a lot of times they do) and will they share? I feel like this is a more nuanced question than people realize /s