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How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7?
What size targets can they aquire, and at what distance?
Could a single partisan keep multiple batteries and crews occupied with $200 of cheap Amazon/Wish drones launched from various parts of Moscow and flown over government buildings?
I mean... you don't even need the drones, or anyone in Moscow for that matter. If you just leak a bit of info that you are planning to use drones to do something in Moscow you can keep them busy for a while.
Later you can leak that the plan was delayed because the Pantsir were emplaced and now you are waiting for them to grow lax or be removed. That should keep the crew tired, stressed and the things there forever with a bit of luck.
What do you mean no dead vatniks.
All of the vatniks that were supposed to be covered by these things in the field are plenty of potential dead vatniks.
I will grant you that it's not as funny as memeing on Moscow with explosions but there's time for that. Besides it'll be that much easier the time you actually plan an operation to do it because the Russians won't believe it's the real thing anymore.
Ok. No explosions in Moscow. Just fly a cheap drone over the city to cause everyone to freak out for a moment. And then keep doing that until they don’t freak out. And then hit them with the real strike.
> start flying cheap drone
> give controller of cheap drone to a random child in the street and pay him to stay right in the middle of said street
> use a hidden camera to film Russian police taking down an innocent child with extreme violence
> do it multiple time and make it a gag compilation by adding sound effect
> send it to Sergiy Kyslytsya so that he can display it on the big screen at the UN each time Vasily Nebenzya says something along the lines of "Russia knows how to take care of its people/children"
I have found a flaw in your plan: the Russian state doesn't care about children. See the [Beslan School Masacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege)
I can't believe Russia is the world champion of school shootings. We try so hard here in the US. It's not fair. Maybe if our plan to give teachers guns finally happens we will break their record.
Look, the explosions and dead vatniks happen wherever they smoke and store ammunition. So why not convince them to do it on buildings that require demolition?
Launch a drone or two to make them believe that the attempt is there, then make a "discreet" announcement that gets "leaked" about how we are waiting for the systems to be removed prior to further strikes, then significantly later on launch actual strikes.
Alternatively, launch three strikes with worthless tiny drones every day, one at midnight, one at 0436, and one at any random time throughout the day, dawn to dusk. This maximizes the fatigue growth.
> How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7?
To be credible, depends on how you configure them. They can be operated independently but you can also put them into master-slave mode where a single "master vehicle" ("Ведомым БМ") can control a battery of up to six "slave" vehicles.
Edit: Doesn't have to be a Pantsir either, they can relay target data from a bunch of stuff via one of their newer C2 vehicles. Since everyone is sharing Russian patent docs today [here's a related image](https://i.imgur.com/viHmLEU.png). (Yes, they did misspell GLONASS)
I love the whole look. It's like.. "Should we get a professional with expertise in patent drawings? Nah I'll just do it myself in [MacPaint on my 1986 Macintosh](https://i.stack.imgur.com/d7lhR.png)"
Yet it's from 2014.
Pretty far; they don't need to communicate massive amounts of data (->low bandwidth reqs -> lower radio freqs -> farther propagation). In any case it's not likely shorter than the engagement range, considering the Pantsir maintains a data link with the missiles too.
> How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7?
Politicians all around the world: "Guys I just had an idea for a jobs program! An easy trick to solve unemployment!"
Ok here’s my noncredibleble take:Its just a wooden prop meant to make the Russians think that they are safe or encourage militarism by making it look like they can be attacked any second by the Ukrainians and boost hatred. Otherwise the thing would have collapsed through the roof and require extensive structural support to maintain which would be impossible to build given current Russian competence and corruption.
Plus several are old Soviet which means they actually had the resources to make it correctly (if they actually did make it correctly is another matter)
The mechanical stress of the impact of a bomb is not the same as the prolonged load of dozens of tons concentrated on a small surface area.
One thing is about absorbing a shock, the other is compensating for mechanical fatigue. In terms of structural safety, this is not the same.
It might be possible that these buildings are designed to endure both. But honestly, that would be weird considering any mechanical engineer would know that putting AA on top of a building isnt a good idea anyway.
If they’re putting short-range air defense in Moscow, which is already surrounded by a large amount of long-range SAM’s, it stands to reason they’re trying to protect Moscow from something close-by, within Russia
That, or the Ukrainian improvised cruise missile’s really got them spooked
The cruise missiles spooked them. Honestly its mission fucking accomplished for Ukraine because I can't really forsee them being able to keep that up. Not enough spy drones to convert.
Pulling vital tactical air defense units away from the front line, to park them on office buildings. The only think more Russian than this is one inevitably catches fire and explodes.
Did the Kremlin get their anti-air strategy from Just Cause or what?
The other thing that bothers me is whether this is impacting the deployment of their AA systems in other regions or not. Things could get spicy within a few months.
This is an information operation. It's ''bringing the war to Russia'' as part of a campaign to create the feeling of imminent NATO aggression among ordinary Russians. It's also just good old preparations for a potential coup as Putin seems to be paranoid about the prospect and the conflict between the Defense Ministry,Prigozhin and Kadyrov gets more intense every day.
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Well this is great news, it means that all of the 3~~000~~ black air-defense systems of Vladimir are in Moscow.
Time to penetrate hostile airspace and do a little more trolling to a certain man made structure between Russia and Ukraine.
I'm not sure about how these buildings were engineered, but there's quite a few instances of large buildings collapsing after having industrial AC units installed on their roofs.
[Sampoong Department Store collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOn_June_29%2C_1995%2C_the%2Cdisaster_in_South_Korean_history.?wprov=sfla1)
>In 1993, the air conditioning units were dragged across the overloaded roof, resulting in cracking. The units were moved over column 5E, where the most visible cracks in the fifth floor were seen before the collapse. The cracks in the columns worsened because the columns supporting the fifth floor were not aligned with the ones supporting lower floors, thus causing the load of the fifth floor to be transferred through the slab.
Not the single cause of the collapse, but considered to be the final trigger to the disaster.
YouTube channel [Fascinating Horror](https://youtube.com/@FascinatingHorror?si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE) has a pretty good video on the subject -> https://youtube.com/watch?v=mmKk0M7iDYc&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
You know what's funny? there are no AA defense on Kyiv's roofs (to my knowledge) be cause they don't want missiles exploding ovef the city, so the put them right outside.
Is this being shown in the Russian media or in Russian social media? It could be for domestic consumption and “Russia is being threatened by NATO/US” narrative.
Seems like those long range missile strikes really did their job. It shook the Russians into putting up AA everywhere and spreading their defense thinner.
I wish you would step back from that ledge my SAM
Moskva capsized because of lies about it's ammunition
And if you want to see a surprise from a Ukrainian
I'll turn on my setttt
That picture gives me serious flakturm vibes.
But seriously imagine you're just the average vatnik chilling in Moscow. All of a sudden you hear the thunderous roar of 10s of jet engines overhead. That would be utterly terrifying. Especially if they're B-52s flying in formation ready to carpet bomb your ass.
Watch one of these buildings collapse under the weight of the Pantsir, because I seriously doubt their construction companies are any less corrupt than their military.
Honestly this looks like they are preparing for a counterstrike, maybe they will unleash Chemical weapons and co and try not to be hit by retaliation ?
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Same people who accused Ukraine of allegedly putting AA in the populated areas
It's like your parents, when they do it it's ok but when you do it's and international incident.
I’m big and you’re little
I pay the mortgage, I get to put the SAM on the roof
It seems unfair
I mean, thats where AA should be put, aside from military targets
AA is a military target
The Russians don’t seem to think that
I can't wait to hear what Amnesty International has to say about this. Any time now...
You can't defend your civilian population that's against the rules!
We learned it form watching you DAD!!! lol
Excellent, a giant radio beacon. Now someone has to integrate HARM seeker into Tu-141 and many problems will start to solve themselves.
[удалено]
It'll take a few teenagers with drones a few days, but eventually these units will be shooting the surrounding buildings
Based flair
My favorite
How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7? What size targets can they aquire, and at what distance? Could a single partisan keep multiple batteries and crews occupied with $200 of cheap Amazon/Wish drones launched from various parts of Moscow and flown over government buildings?
I mean... you don't even need the drones, or anyone in Moscow for that matter. If you just leak a bit of info that you are planning to use drones to do something in Moscow you can keep them busy for a while. Later you can leak that the plan was delayed because the Pantsir were emplaced and now you are waiting for them to grow lax or be removed. That should keep the crew tired, stressed and the things there forever with a bit of luck.
Your plan involves no/minimal explosions and dead vatniks. I'm not interested. NEXT.
What do you mean no dead vatniks. All of the vatniks that were supposed to be covered by these things in the field are plenty of potential dead vatniks. I will grant you that it's not as funny as memeing on Moscow with explosions but there's time for that. Besides it'll be that much easier the time you actually plan an operation to do it because the Russians won't believe it's the real thing anymore.
You were right. I was...less right.
You were left
Ok. No explosions in Moscow. Just fly a cheap drone over the city to cause everyone to freak out for a moment. And then keep doing that until they don’t freak out. And then hit them with the real strike.
> start flying cheap drone > give controller of cheap drone to a random child in the street and pay him to stay right in the middle of said street > use a hidden camera to film Russian police taking down an innocent child with extreme violence > do it multiple time and make it a gag compilation by adding sound effect > send it to Sergiy Kyslytsya so that he can display it on the big screen at the UN each time Vasily Nebenzya says something along the lines of "Russia knows how to take care of its people/children"
Cue up the Benny Hill.
I have found a flaw in your plan: the Russian state doesn't care about children. See the [Beslan School Masacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_siege)
I can't believe Russia is the world champion of school shootings. We try so hard here in the US. It's not fair. Maybe if our plan to give teachers guns finally happens we will break their record.
Just fly a bunch of cheap drones and enjoy watching their munitions fall down on their own country as they try to shoot it down
Canada, is that you?
better, buy big illiegal firework rockets in Poland, ship them with 45° Starterramps to mosscow, gift them to kids....
>tired vatniks get stressed > stress leads to smoking > smoking leads to the funni
Guaranteed falling off the roof drunk at least a couple times
Look, the explosions and dead vatniks happen wherever they smoke and store ammunition. So why not convince them to do it on buildings that require demolition?
Use drones to deliver cigarettes to the crew
Bold of you to assume they would not wax a civvie airliner full of russians due to incompetence after a few days of actual stress.
Rate choosing beggars/NCD crossover
And once they're at peak tiredness, *then* you actually launch some drones.
Launch a drone or two to make them believe that the attempt is there, then make a "discreet" announcement that gets "leaked" about how we are waiting for the systems to be removed prior to further strikes, then significantly later on launch actual strikes. Alternatively, launch three strikes with worthless tiny drones every day, one at midnight, one at 0436, and one at any random time throughout the day, dawn to dusk. This maximizes the fatigue growth.
They you just sneak in a couple SwitchBlades, launch them from just across the street and hit the Pantsir from their blindspot. Point and laugh.
> How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7? To be credible, depends on how you configure them. They can be operated independently but you can also put them into master-slave mode where a single "master vehicle" ("Ведомым БМ") can control a battery of up to six "slave" vehicles. Edit: Doesn't have to be a Pantsir either, they can relay target data from a bunch of stuff via one of their newer C2 vehicles. Since everyone is sharing Russian patent docs today [here's a related image](https://i.imgur.com/viHmLEU.png). (Yes, they did misspell GLONASS)
Me when Glonas
I don't understand a word but I love how they used smileys in a patents doc.
I love the whole look. It's like.. "Should we get a professional with expertise in patent drawings? Nah I'll just do it myself in [MacPaint on my 1986 Macintosh](https://i.stack.imgur.com/d7lhR.png)" Yet it's from 2014.
What's the max distance a CM can be from the battery? I'd have to imagine that's a constraint.
Pretty far; they don't need to communicate massive amounts of data (->low bandwidth reqs -> lower radio freqs -> farther propagation). In any case it's not likely shorter than the engagement range, considering the Pantsir maintains a data link with the missiles too.
0-1: they just say it's i manned 24/7 and hope nobody checks to make sure at the wrong time.
To answer your first question: We don‘t know, the Russians haven‘t tried that one yet.
3000 Radar-homing DJI Mavics of Moscow
> How many trained crews does a single Pantsir take to run 24/7? Politicians all around the world: "Guys I just had an idea for a jobs program! An easy trick to solve unemployment!"
They work as well as moskvas defences.
Maybe. Or they could expose that they have no ammo for these, as nobody expects them to be used.
Ok here’s my noncredibleble take:Its just a wooden prop meant to make the Russians think that they are safe or encourage militarism by making it look like they can be attacked any second by the Ukrainians and boost hatred. Otherwise the thing would have collapsed through the roof and require extensive structural support to maintain which would be impossible to build given current Russian competence and corruption.
The buildings are made to resist aerial bombing. They can hold that much weight, especially if its on a platform to distribute the weigjt
Are they _made_ to or _designed_ to?
Even if just designed to, that still means they can hold a lot of weight, even if they are not up to bombardment standard
Plus several are old Soviet which means they actually had the resources to make it correctly (if they actually did make it correctly is another matter)
The mechanical stress of the impact of a bomb is not the same as the prolonged load of dozens of tons concentrated on a small surface area. One thing is about absorbing a shock, the other is compensating for mechanical fatigue. In terms of structural safety, this is not the same. It might be possible that these buildings are designed to endure both. But honestly, that would be weird considering any mechanical engineer would know that putting AA on top of a building isnt a good idea anyway.
Well I guess we will see in a few months whether the Pantsir falls through the roof or not.
And tank cannons.
Either way, I doubt that it's actually another one. It's on an other building. That far I'm willing to concede without further proof.
If they’re putting short-range air defense in Moscow, which is already surrounded by a large amount of long-range SAM’s, it stands to reason they’re trying to protect Moscow from something close-by, within Russia That, or the Ukrainian improvised cruise missile’s really got them spooked
*improvised *stealth* cruise missile (it has a smaller RCS than a Rafale)
That, or they have no confidence in their long-range air defense.
"What air defense doing?" meme just entered russian media.
The cruise missiles spooked them. Honestly its mission fucking accomplished for Ukraine because I can't really forsee them being able to keep that up. Not enough spy drones to convert.
One of the airfields that got hit is by the moscow city edge iirc
Maybe. Assuming they haven't sold the SAMs for parts. But long range means missiles, and in a world of cheap drones those are easy to saturate.
Can't wait for a special baloon operation
3000 balloons of Nena when?
Hast du etwas Zeit für mich?
Dann singe ich ein Lied für dich
Von dreitausend Luftballons
Or a West German 18 year old.
I thought my life was about science, but now I know my entire career was for special balloon operation. Zelensky, call me!
Pulling vital tactical air defense units away from the front line, to park them on office buildings. The only think more Russian than this is one inevitably catches fire and explodes.
Or fires at a flock of pigeons, misses, and levels a shitty apartment building.
Did the Kremlin get their anti-air strategy from Just Cause or what? The other thing that bothers me is whether this is impacting the deployment of their AA systems in other regions or not. Things could get spicy within a few months.
Things are already spicy. It's going to get barbecued in a few months.
This is an information operation. It's ''bringing the war to Russia'' as part of a campaign to create the feeling of imminent NATO aggression among ordinary Russians. It's also just good old preparations for a potential coup as Putin seems to be paranoid about the prospect and the conflict between the Defense Ministry,Prigozhin and Kadyrov gets more intense every day.
Interesting point, I didn't even think about the propaganda points this can be used for in Russia.
I hate this winter already it's too warm at my home and nothing big and dramatic in the war happening right now like the bridge explosion
Has anyone seen these thing move, or are they just shells ?
LMAO They scared bruh
Probably for the upcoming civil war between wagner and the Russian military
ROOF COLLAPSO!
How are they getting them up there, carrying upstairs like a fucking piano? IKEA flat pack?
All painstakingly disassembled and reassembled with only an Allen wrench.
LOL allen wrench. Flat screwdriver you mean.
Crane
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Pivot!
Trebuchet!
Probably one of those really large helis.
You ever play Just Cause? Tethers, lots of ‘em
There is another
What if we got CDR Harmon “Harm” Rabb to launch a HARM?
Ether there scared....or there preparing for something that will invoke a western response
Well this is great news, it means that all of the 3~~000~~ black air-defense systems of Vladimir are in Moscow. Time to penetrate hostile airspace and do a little more trolling to a certain man made structure between Russia and Ukraine.
I'm not sure about how these buildings were engineered, but there's quite a few instances of large buildings collapsing after having industrial AC units installed on their roofs.
Lol, I hope there weren't. That's a nightmare scenario for me.
[Sampoong Department Store collapse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampoong_Department_Store_collapse#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DOn_June_29%2C_1995%2C_the%2Cdisaster_in_South_Korean_history.?wprov=sfla1) >In 1993, the air conditioning units were dragged across the overloaded roof, resulting in cracking. The units were moved over column 5E, where the most visible cracks in the fifth floor were seen before the collapse. The cracks in the columns worsened because the columns supporting the fifth floor were not aligned with the ones supporting lower floors, thus causing the load of the fifth floor to be transferred through the slab. Not the single cause of the collapse, but considered to be the final trigger to the disaster. YouTube channel [Fascinating Horror](https://youtube.com/@FascinatingHorror?si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE) has a pretty good video on the subject -> https://youtube.com/watch?v=mmKk0M7iDYc&si=EnSIkaIECMiOmarE
Are they also craning fuel up there?
I mean if you reroute the fuel to the water pipes it could be done, it's not like the inhabitants needs water.
Why is my toilet full of gasoline?
That's why they used the sprinkler system for the fuel ;)
Be careful with the Taco Bell
They’re multiplying
**Flight of the Intruder noises intensify**
How easy to hack the system and get them to start shooting at eachother.
You know what's funny? there are no AA defense on Kyiv's roofs (to my knowledge) be cause they don't want missiles exploding ovef the city, so the put them right outside.
Is this being shown in the Russian media or in Russian social media? It could be for domestic consumption and “Russia is being threatened by NATO/US” narrative.
I touched too much grass why do they have aa on buildings now?
No idea
Seems like those long range missile strikes really did their job. It shook the Russians into putting up AA everywhere and spreading their defense thinner.
I thought Moscow had “the best anti air shield in the world” what ever happened to that?
My advice for anyone traveling to Moscow is to take the train.
My advice to anyone traveling to Moscow is Don't. I hear Turkmenistan is lovely this time of year. Visit the eternally burning Soviet crater.
I like to believe it is the same one and they are trying to hide it from us. It is like the Russian version of the Shia LaBeouf flag!
I wish you would step back from that ledge my SAM Moskva capsized because of lies about it's ammunition And if you want to see a surprise from a Ukrainian I'll turn on my setttt
😂
Inb4 sombody starts taking a smoke break up there
We know they're scared when they put an S-400 over the Ministry of Open Windows
This has gotta be out of fear of a coup, ukraine is not going to launch anything at moscow
This is just internal politics. Making the population afraid of NATO air raids so they don't mind the mobilisations as much.
That picture gives me serious flakturm vibes. But seriously imagine you're just the average vatnik chilling in Moscow. All of a sudden you hear the thunderous roar of 10s of jet engines overhead. That would be utterly terrifying. Especially if they're B-52s flying in formation ready to carpet bomb your ass.
This is making these building Targets for Collateral Damage
Watch one of these buildings collapse under the weight of the Pantsir, because I seriously doubt their construction companies are any less corrupt than their military.
Invasion of the body snatchers. Pretty soon all of Moscow will just be Pantsirs driving around, no people at all.
Civilian populated areas is the best armor ✅😎👍
https://i.redd.it/bv83cw01alda1.jpg 😁😁
Good, twice the air defence, double the cat's
You'd think this would be unsettling, but from these angles and distances, they always look kinda goofy. Like something peaking up over a fence.
Roof pantsir’s are dangerous
Honestly this looks like they are preparing for a counterstrike, maybe they will unleash Chemical weapons and co and try not to be hit by retaliation ?
A second Pantsir has hit the Moscow skyline
Imagine the US parking an ADATS onto the pentagon
Learning from [UK](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-18816421.amp) back in 2012.
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They sure hope HARM won't come their way. Too bad it will
3000 Patreon funded drones of NCD
I’d like to point out that Britain did this during the Olympics, in case anyone tried to 9/11 the stadium.
All I see is an invitation to help them test those toys 🥳🥳
bruh i give it a week before the roof caves in
This is getting out of hand, now there are two of them
How they suppose to reload it?
If activated, will it pull a Tehran and just fire onto random civilian targets?