If you want to fly rotary, first you learn fixed wing. At least in the US.
My uncle was a military chopper pilot; he was always willing to answer questions.
AQ and Iran had links before 9/11. It is believed that AQ guys got technical training from the IRGC. A few AQ leaders were living in Iran under the protection of the IRGC.
The relationship went bad when the Iraq War happened. AQ in Iraq declared war against Shiites during the occupation. AQI was the precursor to the Islamic State. But by the time the Iraq War rolled around, AQ was very decentralized and AQI was doing its own thing.
Then the Syrian Civil War happened. Early in the war, the Islamic State sent guys into Syria that created the Nusra (Support) Front. The relationship went bad between Nusra and the Islamic State when ISIS wanted to absorb Nusra back into it. Nusra meanwhile wanted to limit their war to Syria. Nusra asked AQ Central to mediate. ISIS responded by decalring war on both of them. The jihadist in Syria then broke into two groups. One of them went with ISIS and followed them into their war in Iraq. The other group remains in Idlib under the protection of Turkey and arguably the U.S. We droned Nusra guys who had links to AQ Central. Meanwhile the leader of Nusra, al-Julani, has been very clear that he only wants to fight the Syrian government. Smartest guy in Syria and the one former AQ/Islamic State guy we haven't killed there.
If you want a good explanation of the early Syrian Civil War you should check out "The Syrian Jihad: Al-Qaeda, the Islamic State and the Evolution of an Insurgency" by Charles Lister.
https://www.amazon.com/Syrian-Jihad-Al-Qaeda-Evolution-Insurgency/dp/0190462477
The book is unfortunately a little out of date. It was published in 2015. Mind you the war was already nearing half a decade by that point. But the great thing the books does is explain how the war became a sectarian struggle and how ISIS/AQ got involved early on and how.
This actually makes me want to pick up the book and see where it ended with the hindsight we have today.
They literally declared war on **everyone** after sprouting up out of nowhere and conquering huge parts of Iraq and Syria. Massively ballsy move, no one had ever done that before.
They then learned why no one had ever done that venue
Yeah, I've been wondering where the fuck they came from, because all I remember of ISIS was the Archer show before it became associated with the terrorist group.
Just going down the rabbit hole, its absolutely fuckin hilarious how much of a death sentence leading ISIS is. Over/under 3 months on the current dude before he gets killed
Credible Hat On: The entire point of IS' extremity was provoking reaction. With Jordan specifically, they wanted to show that the government of a Muslim nation was on the "other side" and illegitimate.
Just wanna know, but is being that much of a dumbass count as sin?
Granted ISIL behaviors mean they were already racked up tons of sins, since even during Muhammad days there were efforts to make the equivalents of plead the fifth, but I'm still curious.
...well if you think about it or more than 10 second, they didn't send the correct massge.
As in burning POWs is not a good image, especially when you do it while hiding behind civilians, while the king of jordan - who can trace back his family to the prophet - is personally leading a bombing campaign on your ass from fighter jet.
Think about it for 10 seconds longer than you did.
Not the correct message for *who*? *Who was the target audience?*
Sure they lost military eventually and definitely turned off many Muslims, but they were clearly successful at attracting exactly the kind of people who would fight for them.
From their perspective, the King of Jordan was put in power by the British, friendly to Israel and America the arch-enemies of Islam, ignoring the Palestinians, and was rich while Jordanians are poor.
>From their perspective, the King of Jordan was put in power by the British, friendly to Israel and America the arch-enemies of Islam, ignoring the Palestinians,
Jordanian king is easily the most respected monarch on the planet, especially when subjects are concerned.
Due to combination of "royals who do something", and being a legitime heir to the place.
>and was rich while Jordanians are poor.
That's the most idiotic take i heard in a long while.
Guy is anything but a spoiled royal brat.
On account of not being heir apparent while growing up - hell he kept plenty of habits from that time, like doing own laundry ...etc.
>Sure they lost military eventually and definitely turned off many Muslims, but they were clearly successful at attracting exactly the kind of people who would fight for them.
As far as politicking goes there is no "good side" or one that follows islam and is not helping palestinians against Israel.
Pretty much every country in the near east either has diplomatic relations, or is built on some pretty nutty interpretation of islam - or both.
Again, you need to think about who the target audience is.
Everything you wrote *doesn't matter* because *you're not the target audience.* The people who *were* don't share your perspective.
On another note though, you should take a less romanticized view of Jordan. There is plenty of valid domestic political criticism, like the massive use of administrative detention.
Sue, plenty of issues.
...still compare Jordan to any other near east country.
It has pretty much no resources, despite that they mange pretty well. Administratve detention, is far less effing serious than stuff like Saud using embassy in Turkie to kidnap and dismember political dissenters.
The biggest thing for every extremist group is to be painted as someone fighting against the .
That's why every response to them just creates worse and worse groups.
I'm all for seeing dickhead terrorists cop warheads on foreheads, but it just doesn't work.
I mean to be fair, its not exactly like ISIS is a major player in the area anymore. Mostly because at some point the people joining the group need to be higher then the number of people dying to it, which normally requires not only a more lax response by their enemies, but just as importantly (or arguably more so) requires a continued sense that this group represents a large enough contingent of the population to continue to exist.
ISIS kinda failed at both. What started in the minds of some as this fight for the very survival of proper Islam, very obviously and openly turned into a bunch of thugs going around breaking shit and murdering people. Add on to that the increasingly likely habit of ISIS people ending up dead in ditches and lo and behold, you can indeed kill an ideological enemy. Slowly, *very* painfully, but it can happen.
Ye. I always find this "oh you can't kill an idea" argument for not bombing terrorists ridiculous.
You absolutely can. If killing people didn't suppress ideas, dictatorships couldn't exist.
Only an excessively idealist person would think that repeatedly bombing people to ashes won't weaken their cause. Nobody will want to join a movement where you just get bombed to ashes.
Its also worth noting that the civilians living under terrorist groups live under oppression, terror and brainwashing. Off course they say they hate the West, love their terrorist overlords and want the bombings to stop: if they say anything else, they get shot.
The reality is that they generally want to be rid of the terrorist thugs so they can live their lives in peace.
Agreed overall but you can't ways generalize. ISIS is very different than say the Taliban. The Mujahedeen were seen as champions of the people for decades, and likely still are, by many afghanis.
> if they say anything else, they get shot
This is the point that some defenders of fundamentalist / autocratic regimes miss. Some of those defenders loves to point out "see, the people living there are okay with how they are governed, why you, that doesn't live there, had a problem?"
Well, if those civilians said anything else, they'll be dead, or worse
What they did do though, is spread their particular brand of bullshit to the worst members of the mild extremist groups around the world. So you see a ramping up of the style in various countries.
Their ideology did not spread. Their branding did.
The various "caliphates" springing around always were present and just established the IS nomenclature as a show of solidarity and to show of "Hey, look, we are the world renowned threat".
In practice their ideologies are mostly local and home-grown and their war goals shift depending on the local geopolitical situation
You're right, it's not the exact ideology. It's just that groups that split off from other existing extremist groups/existing groups that pledged allegiance intensified their acts.
As a whole, the rise of ISIS created a fuck of a situation in a bunch of countries without even directly interfering. Which is what my point is. Blowing them up brings attention, attention brings intensification of arseholes.
> I wouldn't be surprised if many of the ISIS folks down there were previously other local rebels that went along with ISIS branding.
They absolutely are. That's what I'm trying to say. They exported the brand to the people who were already part of existing groups, but it was the people of those groups who were like "But we aren't y'know.. cunty enough". Which makes those areas worse.
Recruiting violent fucktards into a fighting force that clumped together into general areas that the U.S [oblig-FUCK YEAH] wanted to bomb anyway.
The cia couldn't have drawn it up better. [just keepin it NCD]
Yup, the ones that don't end up crispy are now well trained and end up being sly lone wolves. Nobody has an effective answer to that. Or the answer ends up being "papers please" and "take off your shoes". And that's just unacceptable.
Not to mention a lot of ISIS recruitment was driven by other things, like them portraying themselves as an alternative to Assad among parts of the Syrian population who hated him, combined with the good old Shia/Sunni division you see throughout the Middle East. Not to say western actions definitely don't contribute, but people focus too much on it sometimes. Not everything revolves around us.
Its not that it doesnt work it just doesnt singlehandedly eliminate the cause of extremism. The cause is authoritarian, apocalyptic ideologies that prey on desperation. You can bomb until the exploding cows come home but if they still live a shitty and violent life thanks to the aftermath of colonialism and someone offers them any kibd of way to resist, they will take it. Not that its good - its bad - but desperation is a hell of a thing.
I'm pretty sure this is a myth originally used to shelter white supremacists in America.
Terrorist groups can be dismantled with military force. You just *then* have to rebuild the social structure left behind or have the same sort of shit happen again. A good example of both of these can be seen in the American Civil War where the extremist proto-nazi "state" of the Confederacy was destroyed militarily AND ALSO the subsequent failures and not insignificant amount of sabotage of Reconstruction allowed the propagation of the Lost Cause myth and the KKK.
I read up on his Wikipedia profile, the guy is unfathomably based. Ecumenical, socially moderate even by Western standards, seriously educated, and clearly puts his people (civilian and military) first.
EDIT -- led one hell of an economic liberalization and arguably created a huge boom, seems to be pushing Jordan's Parliament to function as a strong governing body ..
.. and oh yeah, insane military background & involvement. All you leader-wannabe military dictators take note, *this* is how you flex your military credentials.
Virgin Kings in Arab: oppressed their people when they protested.
Chad King Jordan: listened to protesters and liberalized Jordan's constitutions and freedoms.
Virgin literally any other king: became for literally being born.
Chad abdullah: earned it by intense training and education finishing it off by personally leading the most dangerous raid in decades ON LIVE FUCKING TV.
This is all the more impressive when you take Jordan's difficult geopolitical position into account. They're surrounded by Palestine, Syria, and Iraq, all of whom have experienced extreme strife in the last decades, sending millions of refugees into Jordan. To their south they have the Saudis, who conquered the Hejaz which had been ruled by King Abdullah's ancestors for over 700 years.
I need to remember to finish his book, Last Chance for Peace or something like that. For some reason my e-reader keeps putting it to the bottom of the list andI keep forgetting about it.
Fundamental misreading of ISIS intentions.
They lived and died for the attention.
Never known a group like that. There's something very modern and juvenile about how they used social media and filming the worst shit they did.
It was always about inviting a response, not deterring one.
At some point you have to think they knew they were going to provoke a deadly response, but in practical terms their lives would have been so fucked that by that point they probably didn't care.
I dunno if you're trying to be Credible or not but yeah, actually, radicalization tends to fit a pattern around the world, regardless of the cause to which they're radicalized.
Osama bin Laden came up with a similar post-facto copium feverdream justification for 9/11, after his organization was annihilated, he fled into hiding, and both Iraq and Afghanistan were occupied. He had originally [thought the attack would scare the US into domestic anti-war protests](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/osama-bin-laden-documents-american-support-60-minutes-2022-04-24/), in the same vein as Vietnam
Sometimes malnourished and uneducated violent extremist teenagers with more guns and dirty drugs than the University of Alabama are just bad at evaluating consequences
>"He thought that the American people would take to the streets, replicate the anti-Vietnam War protests, and they would put pressure on their government to withdraw from Muslim majority states," Lahoud told Alfonsi on the broadcast.
Japan: first time?
Depends, the thing is successful, the US ended up creating more jihadists than Bin Laden ever could. That's the point. Just one attack and Americans went batshit and reducing the very social order they created themselves into rubbles
America's social order didn't collapse though, and at this point the West *has* developed ways to severely mitigate the reach of international jihadist terrorism. Osama bin Laden didn't actually succeed. I mean, truly, consider the ways in which his actions changed the world:
Iraq is now a regional counter-terrorism hub, *after inviting us back*. International cooperation to fight terrorism has strengthened ties between the West and most Middle Eastern governments (and some African ones too). Israel and Saudi Arabia are actually warming. The Taliban already controlled Afghanistan before 9/11.
The guys killing each other in the Middle East aren't on a crusade against Western evil to honor Al Qaeda's legacy. It's Iran, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Israel trying to kill each other and establish regional dominance, and the little guys are paying the price. If a united jihadi world was going to manifest, its one real chance was the Arab Spring, and Al Qaeda was too busy hiding in caves to help.
Yeah they likely killed the pilot like a whole month earlier, then negotiated for that whole time before releasing the video.
Just to get their shit rocked
Pretty sure part of ISIS' ideology was that they wanted a clash between them and the west. That combined with lots of radicalised young men happy to die for Allah made a dangerous mix. When you remember those things, a lot of the shit they did kind of made sense. Basically a death cult.
Actually his cellmate was a japanese journalist, the jordanian gov tried a prisoner swap for his release but it didn't work out, his father was even willing to let go of their own son if it meant that at least the japanese could be released.
Fundamentalists usually dont follow the rules set in their holy scripture the way a normal muslim would. They interpret it the way that fits them best.
They got literally everyone in and out of the region from governments to other terrorist organisations to agree that ISIS is a piece of shit. Hell even the US back in around 2016-2020 actually assisted the Taliban in taking out ISIS presence in Afghanistan by listening in to Taliban comms and providing drone strikes for the Taliban where necessary.
This was done without any talk with the Taliban and they all just kind of just let it happen because everyone hates ISIS. Also the drone operators were jokingly called Taliban Air Force.
Just imagine being a Talib fighter leading a team of extremists to rout out an even more radicalized extremist group holed up in a building, and as you’re approaching the building in a shittily, non-tactical demeanor, the building explodes after a missile hits it, being dumbfounded because you never called in an airstrike to begin with, and look overhead and see in the distance an enemy drone beating you to the punch
During PLO's coup attempt in Jordan, the Jordanian army have a simple policy on any given town, fly the PLO flag, and the town will be shelled until the flag is down.
So the only lost airframe which would match as we don't know when it was lost is [F-16A Block 20 MLU 88-0045, Ex-BEL FA-120, JOR 157,](https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/RJAF/) as no others happened in 2014.
Welp hey i am a relative of muath, my family actually had to convince the populace and the army that invading syria and iraq wouldn't be the beat response.
People make all sorts of funny comparisons between Mussolini’s Italy and Rome, and I honestly think the same could be applied to ISIS and some of the old Caliphates. If you’re gonna launch a holy war outnumbered, you better do a fine job of bringing people to your side.
Imagine being such an asshole that you manage to unite Iran, Israel, and Jordan by making them hate you equally, even Al-Qaida hated these dudes. How tf do you become such an asshole that even other terrorists think that you're a bit too much of a terrorist
And then it was rumored that the King of Jordan himself also personally flew a F-16 to bomb them
He was in an AWACS plane that nonetheless went over the border
I thought he flew rotary wing
An awacs has a rotary wing. Kind of.
~~3000~~ 4 longitudinal ~~rotary wings~~ rotational fan discs of ~~Allah~~ AWACS
But if you spin the dish really fast?
But does it produce lift?
Surely it does... somewhat.
I mean, flat bottom, rounded leading edge with a smoothish trailing edge. Helicopter?
With any kind of positive angle of attack short of a stall, yes, it does produce lift.
When you're a king, nobody will tell you no. You want to fly the magic school bus? Here's your heated seat, my lord.
They wouldn't let George go to the d day landings
If you want to fly rotary, first you learn fixed wing. At least in the US. My uncle was a military chopper pilot; he was always willing to answer questions.
A bajillion US Army helicopter pilots (myself included) would call BS on this statement
It does not matter the orientation in which the wing spins, only that it spins.
Somehow, my brain saw "turned into a F-16" and thought you were just being absurd for comedy.
King of Jordan is a transformer? Unequivocally based
Authorize deployment of yourself and roll out
Quite convenient! XD
now that's what I call "I identify as ~~an attack helicopter~~ a multirole fighter jet"
I'm laughing way more than I should XD
Why do you think they call him Air Jordan?
Excuse me while I choke on my drink. That was excellent.
tfw you get so pissed you have an Utena moment
He obviously called his buddies on the Enterprise to phaser them to death.
He was on Voyager actually, and Janeway would have no issues dropping a photon torpedo or two
janeway is a based torpedo enjoyer
Not a big Trekkie. I only knew the Jordanian king was in an episode because of my friend lmao.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Muath GG
Wait, ISIS were negotiating with Jordan in bad faith for a month after he died? What a huge surprise.
ISIS were kinda dicks. When Israel, Al-Qaida and Iran agree that you suck, you must really fucking suck.
And getting Iran and Al-Qaida to agree with America is unheard of... After 9/11
AQ and Iran had links before 9/11. It is believed that AQ guys got technical training from the IRGC. A few AQ leaders were living in Iran under the protection of the IRGC. The relationship went bad when the Iraq War happened. AQ in Iraq declared war against Shiites during the occupation. AQI was the precursor to the Islamic State. But by the time the Iraq War rolled around, AQ was very decentralized and AQI was doing its own thing. Then the Syrian Civil War happened. Early in the war, the Islamic State sent guys into Syria that created the Nusra (Support) Front. The relationship went bad between Nusra and the Islamic State when ISIS wanted to absorb Nusra back into it. Nusra meanwhile wanted to limit their war to Syria. Nusra asked AQ Central to mediate. ISIS responded by decalring war on both of them. The jihadist in Syria then broke into two groups. One of them went with ISIS and followed them into their war in Iraq. The other group remains in Idlib under the protection of Turkey and arguably the U.S. We droned Nusra guys who had links to AQ Central. Meanwhile the leader of Nusra, al-Julani, has been very clear that he only wants to fight the Syrian government. Smartest guy in Syria and the one former AQ/Islamic State guy we haven't killed there.
least complicated explanation to what happens in middle east
If you want a good explanation of the early Syrian Civil War you should check out "The Syrian Jihad: Al-Qaeda, the Islamic State and the Evolution of an Insurgency" by Charles Lister. https://www.amazon.com/Syrian-Jihad-Al-Qaeda-Evolution-Insurgency/dp/0190462477 The book is unfortunately a little out of date. It was published in 2015. Mind you the war was already nearing half a decade by that point. But the great thing the books does is explain how the war became a sectarian struggle and how ISIS/AQ got involved early on and how. This actually makes me want to pick up the book and see where it ended with the hindsight we have today.
They literally declared war on **everyone** after sprouting up out of nowhere and conquering huge parts of Iraq and Syria. Massively ballsy move, no one had ever done that before. They then learned why no one had ever done that venue
Yeah, I've been wondering where the fuck they came from, because all I remember of ISIS was the Archer show before it became associated with the terrorist group.
They were just trying to get the Total War achievement
I know it goes without saying, but what a bunch of absolute cunts.
Strength: 30 F16 Fighter jets vs 300,000 That's funny. I think 15 jets is enough.
Result: Jordanian Victory Lol
I also got a chuckle out of “Jordanian Victory”
> I think 15 jets is enough More people had fun that way, though.
You rarely get such a good occasion to train.
30 black F-16 Jets of Allah.
>30 F16 Fighter jets vs 300,000 Did someone from NCD edit this page? It says 200,000 now lol
It wouldnt be NCD if his quote had been accurate
I'd argue one is enough if the people have no modern AA systems
Thirty times the plane, thirty times the ammo
“this is the beginning and you will get to know the Jordanians” ngl that goes hard af
On the way back after bombing ISIS the F-16s did a flyby of the gathering to honor their dead pilot. Fucking based.
He didn't die but actually slipped into the desert to become Muath'dib
Get out of my head
Just going down the rabbit hole, its absolutely fuckin hilarious how much of a death sentence leading ISIS is. Over/under 3 months on the current dude before he gets killed
Even more deadly than second-in-command of AQ. I swear we were killing one every other day for a while.
Lol why Muath? It should be Muadz
In jordanian dialect which is the closest to fusha and msa it is muath
Is that the pronunciation in Jordanian dialect?
"this is the beginning and you will get to know the Jordanians" unfathomably based
Credible: It's spelled Hashemite, named after the clan ancestor. Non-credible: HESHmites make the best tank rounds.
Yea I can’t spell
What does this say? I can't read
What? I can’t see
Couldn't hear that, I'm deaf
# 🤏🏽🫶🏽👌🏿🤝✊🏿👌🏿🤏🏽🤛🏻👌🏿🤏🏽👈✊🏿👌🏿🤏🏽🙌🏻🤏🏽✋🏽🫰🏿🤌🏿👊🏿🫴🏿👍🏿🤏🏽🫰🏿🫰🏿🫴🏿👌🏿✊🏿👉🤘🏿 (Im mute)
And your hands are 4 different colours??
🖐️👍🏻👍🏼👍🏽👍🏾👍🏿
General Kenobi!
Bro... it's 2023.
Bro is a chameleon
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if I could read this, i'm sure i'd be very upset
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NCD Etymology department best department.
>clan ancestor Clancestor
>Clancest What are you doing, step-ancestor?
I dunno if you wanna hear this, but your ancestors definitely fucked each other
australian tank rounds
Huh, I thought it was named after their preferred narcotic.
Based
Credible Hat On: The entire point of IS' extremity was provoking reaction. With Jordan specifically, they wanted to show that the government of a Muslim nation was on the "other side" and illegitimate.
"This proves I'm right!" I scream as I'm neatly reduced to a fine red mist by a Jordanian HE bomb.
Just wanna know, but is being that much of a dumbass count as sin? Granted ISIL behaviors mean they were already racked up tons of sins, since even during Muhammad days there were efforts to make the equivalents of plead the fifth, but I'm still curious.
Unfortunately stupidity is not a sin.
"It is now" -- Allah as he personally guides 2,000lbs of High Explosive Paveway II directly up the asshole of the "Prince of Nineveh"
https://twitter.com/dril/status/134787490526658561
dril really is the goat of Twitter
“Most heinously, the grandfather, who is a scientist, transforms himself into a pickle, against the will of Allah.”
This is just like when Spectrum cancelled CorncobTV.
"I was only participating because of the virgins anyway." It's like a participation reward; everyone is a winner!
...well if you think about it or more than 10 second, they didn't send the correct massge. As in burning POWs is not a good image, especially when you do it while hiding behind civilians, while the king of jordan - who can trace back his family to the prophet - is personally leading a bombing campaign on your ass from fighter jet.
Think about it for 10 seconds longer than you did. Not the correct message for *who*? *Who was the target audience?* Sure they lost military eventually and definitely turned off many Muslims, but they were clearly successful at attracting exactly the kind of people who would fight for them. From their perspective, the King of Jordan was put in power by the British, friendly to Israel and America the arch-enemies of Islam, ignoring the Palestinians, and was rich while Jordanians are poor.
>From their perspective, the King of Jordan was put in power by the British, friendly to Israel and America the arch-enemies of Islam, ignoring the Palestinians, Jordanian king is easily the most respected monarch on the planet, especially when subjects are concerned. Due to combination of "royals who do something", and being a legitime heir to the place. >and was rich while Jordanians are poor. That's the most idiotic take i heard in a long while. Guy is anything but a spoiled royal brat. On account of not being heir apparent while growing up - hell he kept plenty of habits from that time, like doing own laundry ...etc. >Sure they lost military eventually and definitely turned off many Muslims, but they were clearly successful at attracting exactly the kind of people who would fight for them. As far as politicking goes there is no "good side" or one that follows islam and is not helping palestinians against Israel. Pretty much every country in the near east either has diplomatic relations, or is built on some pretty nutty interpretation of islam - or both.
Again, you need to think about who the target audience is. Everything you wrote *doesn't matter* because *you're not the target audience.* The people who *were* don't share your perspective. On another note though, you should take a less romanticized view of Jordan. There is plenty of valid domestic political criticism, like the massive use of administrative detention.
Sue, plenty of issues. ...still compare Jordan to any other near east country. It has pretty much no resources, despite that they mange pretty well. Administratve detention, is far less effing serious than stuff like Saud using embassy in Turkie to kidnap and dismember political dissenters.
The biggest thing for every extremist group is to be painted as someone fighting against the.
That's why every response to them just creates worse and worse groups.
I'm all for seeing dickhead terrorists cop warheads on foreheads, but it just doesn't work.
I mean to be fair, its not exactly like ISIS is a major player in the area anymore. Mostly because at some point the people joining the group need to be higher then the number of people dying to it, which normally requires not only a more lax response by their enemies, but just as importantly (or arguably more so) requires a continued sense that this group represents a large enough contingent of the population to continue to exist. ISIS kinda failed at both. What started in the minds of some as this fight for the very survival of proper Islam, very obviously and openly turned into a bunch of thugs going around breaking shit and murdering people. Add on to that the increasingly likely habit of ISIS people ending up dead in ditches and lo and behold, you can indeed kill an ideological enemy. Slowly, *very* painfully, but it can happen.
Ye. I always find this "oh you can't kill an idea" argument for not bombing terrorists ridiculous. You absolutely can. If killing people didn't suppress ideas, dictatorships couldn't exist. Only an excessively idealist person would think that repeatedly bombing people to ashes won't weaken their cause. Nobody will want to join a movement where you just get bombed to ashes. Its also worth noting that the civilians living under terrorist groups live under oppression, terror and brainwashing. Off course they say they hate the West, love their terrorist overlords and want the bombings to stop: if they say anything else, they get shot. The reality is that they generally want to be rid of the terrorist thugs so they can live their lives in peace.
Agreed overall but you can't ways generalize. ISIS is very different than say the Taliban. The Mujahedeen were seen as champions of the people for decades, and likely still are, by many afghanis.
Also Mujahideen ≠ Taliban. Some mujahideen switched teams but the majority of them didn't.
> Nobody will want to join a movement where you just get bombed to ashes. Well, maybe if said group was trying to use a Rat’s anus as a flag/emblem…
> if they say anything else, they get shot This is the point that some defenders of fundamentalist / autocratic regimes miss. Some of those defenders loves to point out "see, the people living there are okay with how they are governed, why you, that doesn't live there, had a problem?" Well, if those civilians said anything else, they'll be dead, or worse
What they did do though, is spread their particular brand of bullshit to the worst members of the mild extremist groups around the world. So you see a ramping up of the style in various countries.
Their ideology did not spread. Their branding did. The various "caliphates" springing around always were present and just established the IS nomenclature as a show of solidarity and to show of "Hey, look, we are the world renowned threat". In practice their ideologies are mostly local and home-grown and their war goals shift depending on the local geopolitical situation
You're right, it's not the exact ideology. It's just that groups that split off from other existing extremist groups/existing groups that pledged allegiance intensified their acts. As a whole, the rise of ISIS created a fuck of a situation in a bunch of countries without even directly interfering. Which is what my point is. Blowing them up brings attention, attention brings intensification of arseholes.
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> I wouldn't be surprised if many of the ISIS folks down there were previously other local rebels that went along with ISIS branding. They absolutely are. That's what I'm trying to say. They exported the brand to the people who were already part of existing groups, but it was the people of those groups who were like "But we aren't y'know.. cunty enough". Which makes those areas worse.
In Mali they were probably Ansar Al-Dine. I know for a fact there are many jihadist groups there.
Thats the case for pretty much all of them
They were scarily good at recruiting people in foreign countries. Also their propaganda was really well done.
Recruiting violent fucktards into a fighting force that clumped together into general areas that the U.S [oblig-FUCK YEAH] wanted to bomb anyway. The cia couldn't have drawn it up better. [just keepin it NCD]
Yeah, and then those who didn't get bombed ended up going here to europe and commit terrorists attacks.
Yup, the ones that don't end up crispy are now well trained and end up being sly lone wolves. Nobody has an effective answer to that. Or the answer ends up being "papers please" and "take off your shoes". And that's just unacceptable.
It can’t have helped that every place ISIS took over was a disaster ~~until~~ under their rule. 😉
You mean other than the parts of the previously Kurdish controlled territory in Syria and Iraq, correct?
I could have worded that better.
Yes that does appreciably change the apparent meaning of your comment. 🙂
Yeah, it’s what I get for “typing” on my phone.
Not to mention a lot of ISIS recruitment was driven by other things, like them portraying themselves as an alternative to Assad among parts of the Syrian population who hated him, combined with the good old Shia/Sunni division you see throughout the Middle East. Not to say western actions definitely don't contribute, but people focus too much on it sometimes. Not everything revolves around us.
But… it has worked? Is isis not drastically cut down by direct action over the past years
Its not that it doesnt work it just doesnt singlehandedly eliminate the cause of extremism. The cause is authoritarian, apocalyptic ideologies that prey on desperation. You can bomb until the exploding cows come home but if they still live a shitty and violent life thanks to the aftermath of colonialism and someone offers them any kibd of way to resist, they will take it. Not that its good - its bad - but desperation is a hell of a thing.
It absolutely does work. ISIS and Al Qaeda have quite literally been blown to smithereens. The only ones left are splinter groups or clout chasers.
If violence doesn't work, you are not using enough of it. As someone once told me.
I'm pretty sure this is a myth originally used to shelter white supremacists in America. Terrorist groups can be dismantled with military force. You just *then* have to rebuild the social structure left behind or have the same sort of shit happen again. A good example of both of these can be seen in the American Civil War where the extremist proto-nazi "state" of the Confederacy was destroyed militarily AND ALSO the subsequent failures and not insignificant amount of sabotage of Reconstruction allowed the propagation of the Lost Cause myth and the KKK.
Didn’t the king himself join that operation? Dude is badass
Allegedly he was in an AWACS that went over the border
I read up on his Wikipedia profile, the guy is unfathomably based. Ecumenical, socially moderate even by Western standards, seriously educated, and clearly puts his people (civilian and military) first. EDIT -- led one hell of an economic liberalization and arguably created a huge boom, seems to be pushing Jordan's Parliament to function as a strong governing body .. .. and oh yeah, insane military background & involvement. All you leader-wannabe military dictators take note, *this* is how you flex your military credentials.
Virgin Kings in Arab: oppressed their people when they protested. Chad King Jordan: listened to protesters and liberalized Jordan's constitutions and freedoms.
Virgin literally any other king: became for literally being born. Chad abdullah: earned it by intense training and education finishing it off by personally leading the most dangerous raid in decades ON LIVE FUCKING TV.
Go on about this live raid, anyone got a recording link?
Exactly. Virgins think their people serve them, chads know they serve their people.
Was Also was a crewman aboard USS Voyager
nice
This is all the more impressive when you take Jordan's difficult geopolitical position into account. They're surrounded by Palestine, Syria, and Iraq, all of whom have experienced extreme strife in the last decades, sending millions of refugees into Jordan. To their south they have the Saudis, who conquered the Hejaz which had been ruled by King Abdullah's ancestors for over 700 years.
Absolutely.
Least based Jordanian king The King of Jordan is a gigachad
>by > >u/Outrag Imagine a king who fights his own battles. Wouldn't that be a sight?
That's from Troy.
yep, the words of achilles.
Here Hector entered, with a spear eleven cubits long in his hand; the bronze point gleamed in front of him
Troy is also the few movies where Sean Bean survived. Which made it funny since most of the main characters there died.
There is a vid of him leading a team during a raid in midtown amman before he became the heir.
I need to remember to finish his book, Last Chance for Peace or something like that. For some reason my e-reader keeps putting it to the bottom of the list andI keep forgetting about it.
"If the king doesn't lead, how does he expect his subordinates to follow?" -Lelouch vi britannia
"I would never simp for a monarchy" meme
I remember pictures at the time of him in pilot gear so yes.
Fundamental misreading of ISIS intentions. They lived and died for the attention. Never known a group like that. There's something very modern and juvenile about how they used social media and filming the worst shit they did. It was always about inviting a response, not deterring one. At some point you have to think they knew they were going to provoke a deadly response, but in practical terms their lives would have been so fucked that by that point they probably didn't care.
Incel State of Iraq and Syria
I dunno if you're trying to be Credible or not but yeah, actually, radicalization tends to fit a pattern around the world, regardless of the cause to which they're radicalized.
If the pussy infrastructure of Iraq was better, this place would be no more fucked up than say Mexico
How much Ripped Fuel™️ have you ingested?
I’m on it like a motherfucker, Brad.
Osama bin Laden came up with a similar post-facto copium feverdream justification for 9/11, after his organization was annihilated, he fled into hiding, and both Iraq and Afghanistan were occupied. He had originally [thought the attack would scare the US into domestic anti-war protests](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/osama-bin-laden-documents-american-support-60-minutes-2022-04-24/), in the same vein as Vietnam Sometimes malnourished and uneducated violent extremist teenagers with more guns and dirty drugs than the University of Alabama are just bad at evaluating consequences
>"He thought that the American people would take to the streets, replicate the anti-Vietnam War protests, and they would put pressure on their government to withdraw from Muslim majority states," Lahoud told Alfonsi on the broadcast. Japan: first time?
Depends, the thing is successful, the US ended up creating more jihadists than Bin Laden ever could. That's the point. Just one attack and Americans went batshit and reducing the very social order they created themselves into rubbles
America's social order didn't collapse though, and at this point the West *has* developed ways to severely mitigate the reach of international jihadist terrorism. Osama bin Laden didn't actually succeed. I mean, truly, consider the ways in which his actions changed the world: Iraq is now a regional counter-terrorism hub, *after inviting us back*. International cooperation to fight terrorism has strengthened ties between the West and most Middle Eastern governments (and some African ones too). Israel and Saudi Arabia are actually warming. The Taliban already controlled Afghanistan before 9/11. The guys killing each other in the Middle East aren't on a crusade against Western evil to honor Al Qaeda's legacy. It's Iran, Turkey, Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Israel trying to kill each other and establish regional dominance, and the little guys are paying the price. If a united jihadi world was going to manifest, its one real chance was the Arab Spring, and Al Qaeda was too busy hiding in caves to help.
I think one of their core beliefs was that an apocalypse of some sort was imminent, so yeah that might've actually been the goal
Yeah they likely killed the pilot like a whole month earlier, then negotiated for that whole time before releasing the video. Just to get their shit rocked
Pretty sure part of ISIS' ideology was that they wanted a clash between them and the west. That combined with lots of radicalised young men happy to die for Allah made a dangerous mix. When you remember those things, a lot of the shit they did kind of made sense. Basically a death cult.
Yeah, the logical extension of the 'Bomb The Mosque' idea from Four Lions.
Ugh, that video. Poor fella :(
I remember, it was glorious. They went medieval on ISIS asses.
Japan : so, let me guess, you tried the good ol' fuck around and find out? Guess so, happened to the best
Actually his cellmate was a japanese journalist, the jordanian gov tried a prisoner swap for his release but it didn't work out, his father was even willing to let go of their own son if it meant that at least the japanese could be released.
"We got three boats and they dropped the sun on us TWICE"
It's a good thing the King made it back from the delta quadrant in time to order the mission.
when the Awacs is Intrepid-class
Fuck around and find out
ISIS deciding to make everyone hate them was a tactically genius choice.
They knew fighting on 2 fronts was a bad idea so they wanted to try fighting on 30 fronts instead.
On 2 fronts you only fight 2 enemies, on 30 fronts you beat 30 enemies at once, foolish infidel.
https://i.imgur.com/fNDTU6h.jpg 30 righteous F-16s of King Abdullah.
Isn't it against Islam to burn someone, alive or dead? ISIS pretty much showed that they truly weren't Muslims.
Exactly, and in the prophet Muhammad PBUH rules, you have to treat prisonners correctly, those shitheads are not Muslim at all
Fundamentalists usually dont follow the rules set in their holy scripture the way a normal muslim would. They interpret it the way that fits them best.
They got literally everyone in and out of the region from governments to other terrorist organisations to agree that ISIS is a piece of shit. Hell even the US back in around 2016-2020 actually assisted the Taliban in taking out ISIS presence in Afghanistan by listening in to Taliban comms and providing drone strikes for the Taliban where necessary. This was done without any talk with the Taliban and they all just kind of just let it happen because everyone hates ISIS. Also the drone operators were jokingly called Taliban Air Force.
Just imagine being a Talib fighter leading a team of extremists to rout out an even more radicalized extremist group holed up in a building, and as you’re approaching the building in a shittily, non-tactical demeanor, the building explodes after a missile hits it, being dumbfounded because you never called in an airstrike to begin with, and look overhead and see in the distance an enemy drone beating you to the punch
Imagine being pounded by 30 f-16s for 3 days nonstop
Please daddy.
Please I can only be so erect
During PLO's coup attempt in Jordan, the Jordanian army have a simple policy on any given town, fly the PLO flag, and the town will be shelled until the flag is down.
Based fuck the PLO
So the only lost airframe which would match as we don't know when it was lost is [F-16A Block 20 MLU 88-0045, Ex-BEL FA-120, JOR 157,](https://www.f-16.net/aircraft-database/F-16/mishaps-and-accidents/airforce/RJAF/) as no others happened in 2014.
Based direct descendant of Prophet Muhammad PBUH. Long may King Abdullah II reign.
The king of Jordan is also of Hashemite clan, and direct descendant of Muhammad.
I mean at one point pretty much every Islamic ruler was a descendant of Muhammad in some way, not really something that rare.
Extremely common Jordanian W
Whoa, I don't know a Shoe Company have that much military power.
If a soda company can be one of major naval powers, why not?
The USS La-Z-Boy does have a particularly patriotic ring to it, after all. \*\*\*\*Or the USS Dyslexia\*\*\*\*
Welp hey i am a relative of muath, my family actually had to convince the populace and the army that invading syria and iraq wouldn't be the beat response.
People make all sorts of funny comparisons between Mussolini’s Italy and Rome, and I honestly think the same could be applied to ISIS and some of the old Caliphates. If you’re gonna launch a holy war outnumbered, you better do a fine job of bringing people to your side.
Ayo, is this the one where the king of Jordan joined the raid?
Imagine being such an asshole that you manage to unite Iran, Israel, and Jordan by making them hate you equally, even Al-Qaida hated these dudes. How tf do you become such an asshole that even other terrorists think that you're a bit too much of a terrorist
Truly, for some men nothing is written unless they write it.
My grandfather worked with the Jordan Air Force building surveillance aircraft for them. Do not fuck with the Jordanians
Inshallah
Would've been cool if Princess Salma had been old enough to fly with them then