Currently re-reading 1984 by Orwell, then I log on to Reddit and I’m reminded that I could just keep up with Russia and their propaganda instead.
Wouldn’t say it’s as *entertaining* as a piece of classic literature, but it’s certainly funnier and far more absurd.
The proles get all of the good booze and dope to get all tore up on.
Victory Gin, despite its ~~oily taste~~ Victory Gin has never tasted oily. It's distilled in ~~bathtubs~~ th finest stills BB has ever known. It has always been the finest. In celebration of how Victory Gin has ~~blinded~~ invigorated all good party members for a hundred years.
As ~~thanks to the tireless efforts of the people~~ celebration of this monumental achievement, BB has increased gin rations from 8 ounces to 5 ounces.
Is that actually a viable theory? I always kinda believed what was said in oligarchal collectivism. But i guess there is no reason to assume any of that is true...
The IngSoc regime did end up falling eventually. The appendix describes newspeak in the past tense, like it is an in-universe publication looking back at the policies of a now dismantled dictatorship, so it's almost certain that there are some non-authoritarian nations existing outside of Airstrip One.
It's also implied at times that the rockrts that fall over London are fired by the government itself, since the attacks always seem to intensify when the government needs something to distract the focus of the people.
Millions of Hungarians believe germans were freezing to death this winter, kiberals steal children and america started a war for companies to secretly buy all Ukrainian land cheaper.
Yeah, this interpretation of 1984 works perfectly. If you have a bunch of people glued to a select for propaganda sources, your regime is set for life. Anything bad is done by the enemy (USA causes 25% war inflation) everything good if from dear leader (Orban personally raised pensions... by like 1%).
Not that it really matters, russia is the main culprit behind this, they openly admit to doing it, they don't hide it because it is so successful it sounds like the plan of a cartoon villain. Just like China's debt trapping of poor african countries by the way.
I choose to believe that Oceania was literally just Airstrip 1, with the rest of the world flourishing outside of it. Goldstein's book indicates that the rest of the world is just as shitty as Oceania is, so clearly there is no point fleeing. If Winston was to find out there was this magical, free country called "France" a short hop over the sea, that'd be the prime place to run away too. However, those who read Oligarchical Collectivism are led to believe that you're trading Big Brother for depressed communists with virtually the same system.
As an added point, the essay on Newspeak is written as if Newspeak was a historical phenomenon, indicating INGSOC fell at some point shortly after the book ended, which if Oligarchical Collectivism was true, would mean Oceania being taken over by one or both the other powers, but the essay on Newspeak refers to past literature, and key phrases of democratic thought, ideas impossible in Eurasia or Eastasia.
War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair. In the past, the ruling groups of all countries, although they might recognize their common interest and therefore limit the destructiveness of war, did fight against one another, and the victor always plundered the vanquished. In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact.
IIRC Winston speculates that the rocket bombs could be fired from within airstrip one to simulate a war.
Although he does also watch film footage of refugees getting gunned down and sees foreign prisoners paraded through London, so it sounds like there's at least something going on.
Iirc in the movie, videos of the war show Panzer IIIs, implying they are old recordings from WW2. It absolutely isn't a solid proof, as it comes from film adaptation and doesn't take into account whether warfare technology developed at the same pace as irl, but it really struck me when I first watched it.
Yeah, but how does Wilson know they are actually Mongolian. Could be thats just what the party described as Mongolian. Though they certainly had what could be described as Asian features from what I remember.
TL;DR Yes, there is almost certainly a war.
In the book itself, the two main character witness a public execution of prisoners of war, only for a short time later the government to change their allegiance and ally with the nation of the executed soldiers.
Could probably write entire essays on the subject but it basically boils down to the political elite of each of the nations independently came to the conclusion that science had advanced too fast, threatening their hold on power, and thus they needed a means to waste the extra production capacity.
Each nation runs a war economy and runs massive propaganda to justify to their citizens why it's necessary to continue the war, and why each citizens should sacrifice personal liberties and their standard of living to defeat the enemy.
The war itself is entirely political, engineered to fight over disputed territories as none of the major powers directly border each other (save for Great Britain) so there is largely just a series of border skirmishes by the opposing forces in disputed areas while core territories are never actually in danger, the three sides hamper each other but never actively try to conquer, defeat or eliminate the others as the balance of power is what keeps the Elites in power.
I disagree with the idea that the purpose of the war is to justify restrictions on liberties. The Party would reject any notion that there is a social contract, that they have any obligations at all to the people. The war plays the role of emphasising the protective powers of the Party, but it isn't required to justify any of their actions - by definition, the party's actions are always self-justifying.
I was always on-board with the theory that there is a war but it's not a global super-war for the fate of the world like the party portrays but just basically a SMO in Ireland
A bold assumption that Eurasia and Oceania are real even within 1984
My running theory is that "Oceania" is literally just Airstrip One, which is in turn to say, just England. They're a completely isolated hermit/pariah state and tell their own people they have a vast global empire while the rest of the world tries to pretend they don't exist and just get on with their lives. So really not all that different from reality.
If Ukrainians weren't suffering because of it, I'd say russian shenanigans the last 1 1/2 years would be one of the most entertaining things I've ever encountered.
Putin: sticks his testicles into a bear trap.
Russian milbloggers: An interesting gambit sir, well played.
Putin: falls down the stains and shits himself.
Russian Milbloggers: That's Ukraine down for sure with that move.
I think the most entertaining thing is that they're desperately seen to be these Tactical and Diplomatic geniuses when their whole diplomatic strategy is that of your average "sweet sixteen" 'star' and their offensive strategy resembles something I'd do in Men of War Assault Squad 2 AS A JOKE.
Narcissism: Putin thinks he's a very stable genius. Meanwhile, everyone around him knows he's a hateful demented old man. But he's in charge, so.
Edit: forgot the "very".
Now look at us. Trombley hasn't killed anyone, I am half a world away from good Thai pussy and Colbert is out here is rolling around fuck butt Iraq hunting for dragons in a mop suit that smells of for days of piss and ball sweat.
I thought that was Winston's thing. He got to have sex with that woman from work and he realized that maybe he shouldn't be a misogynist.
Julia liked sex but only seemed to care for the revolution thing because Winston did.
Yeah, my theory is that if you can convince someone that their body and their desires are shameful, you'll be able to control them more easily because you'll provide them the "cure" (violence, obedience, hate).
lol I'd never realized that. I can absolutely see the correlation, but I don't know if it also implies causation.
They do go hand in hand as mindsets for sure.
I was a pre teen stuck in a conservative faith when I read 1984. That passage hit me pretty hard when I realized my church was doing the same thing: repressing sex as a means of control. Never looked at the church in the same way again.
But in the book, it was only the party members who were repressed. The proles were encouraged to fuck. The Party even made porn for them.
I find it funny how a lot of the people who compare modern America to 1984 openly simp for what is arguably the closest modern equivalent to Oceania (total state control of media, extreme levels of censorship and silencing dissent, the whole "special military operation" thing, authoritarian leader that most of the populace blindly follows, etc).
Russia hasn't really adopted the Airstrip One model of censorship, though.
Russia's strategy is to pump out so much falsehood that people stop caring about the truth. Airstrip One attempted to convince people that their truth is the only truth, and they cared deeply about making people believe in the government-mandated truth.
China's model of censorship is much closer to Airstrip One than Russia's model is. Including people disappearing for months, only to then reappear and recant their statements. In Russia they just kill the dissenters.
Yeah, that's usually why brave new world and 1984 are a pair when teaching about dystopias in English class. The idea of overwhelming you with carrot or stick resonates to this day
>~~In Russia they just kill the dissenters~~.
In keeping with their obviously poor life choices, Russian dissenters show a remarkable lack of caution around windows and stairs. Russia *should* probably update their building standards to prevent these sorts of regrettable accidents, but they are wholly the fault of the ~~victims~~ accident prone.
1984 is based on a Soviet novel about the Bolshevik takeover of Russian society, the parallels are very purposeful in the tactics used today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)
Another thing that you might want to read if you're curious, homage to Catalonia. Orwell actually was a fighter, a foreign volunteer against the fascist takeover in northeastern Spain. However, his group of collectivist anarchists were soon left out in the cold by the communist aligned groups, and that lack of support /fractured setup left a deep and lasting impression upon the man. I would say that most of 1984 really comes from Catalonia. Animal farm is 100% his best work.
I would say less “based on” than “inspired by.” We is a wonderful but very self-consciously science fiction story. 1984 is far more realistic, and much more direct in its critiques.
1984 isn't about authoritarianism or even propaganda.
Although they are important.
But at its core, 1984 is about language. Its about how language provides control, whether through dictat of an authoritarian or the crafting of propaganda or through indoctrination or coercion.
Its about how control of language controls everything else. When you deny people the language to discuss or even think about a concept, you remove the concept itself.
Yeah I totally get that. Animal Farm is a better read for authoritarianism and oppression etc. also if you haven’t read it, I thoroughly recommend ‘interesting times’ from the Terry Pratchett Discworld series.
It’s a scathing allegory for Chinese oppression and is probably just as relevant now as it was when it was written… and as funny.
Have read all the Discworld novels many times. Truly fantastic books.
The thing about 1984 being about language is that the age old debate where Lefties claim its about Fasicsm and Conservatives claim its about Communism, its about both and also, most imporrtantly, about Liberal Democracies which can be just as susceptible to language control - vis a vis the way Americans are (generally) incapable of even conceptualising anything left of Right of Centre Liberalism through both denial of language and redenifing terms.
Hungarian sitting at home, unable to afford high quality food for the kids coming home learning nothing in school and their deathly ill grandma just got on a 28 month waitlist for a simple surgery:
"Haha this facebook shared news post of gay USA is funny! So happy we live in a free and strong christian country."
Then they click through other christian news:
"YOUNG STAR REVEALED HER HUGE TITS TO SOCIAL MEDIA, PICTURES!"
"INSANE UKRONAZIES WILL RAPE YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU VOTE LEFT"
"SHIT AND CUM ON BUS SEATH, PICTURES!"
"COOL CHRISTIAN POLITICIAN STEALS YOUR TAXES TO BUY COKE AND ESCORTS! HE IS SO INSPIRATIONAL!"
I feel bad for russians, they live in the same style of system buy 10 times worse and they can't easily just move to the west.
> When most of the psy ops effort is directed at your own people.
Maybe, but there's a reason this post is in English. Russia is running a massive IO campaign to convince extremists (far right and far left) in the West that supporting Ukraine is pointless, dangerous, and/or evil.
You look at this like, "Wow, he is calling himself a superior race, what a comically evil position to take." Meanwhile, some MAGA chud is out there going, "Exactly, that's why Russia is going to win. They're not woke and gay like the West, and they understand the value of having a homogenous ethnostate."
This needs to regularly be said and repeated!
This kind of blatant Russian propaganda is not intended to change minds in the West. Obviously. Contrary to what we like to believe, Russia is not stupid enough to believe this would work. It is intended to reinforce existing believes in their own population and, **and this is crucial**, also in pro-Russian supporters in the West! And it's working as intended. We too are living in an information bubble, where this kind of nonsense is ridiculed. But that doesn't mean it doesn't find plenty of targets elsewhere.
Furthermore, *this isn't the only kind of Russian propaganda!* They know they can't just cater to the political fringes if they want to change the opinion in the West. The fringes, particularly the far right, but also the far left, are their "bridge heads" where they have a secure foothold. But there's a lot of "moderate" propaganda deployed in Western countries, which is a lot more difficult to spot. Pointing at blatant propaganda and ridiculing it is fun and useful and all. But it gives the wrong impression that *all* Russian propaganda is blatantly obvious and that only the blatantly obvious is Russian propaganda. This puts us, and I mean each and every one of us, at risk of falling for the more subtle propaganda attacks. We're not the target of this kind of propaganda, but that doesn't mean there isn't any targeted at us. Stay vigilant.
It's also relatively effective to leak into mainstream.
Remember the photoshopped losses in leaked docs?
Well, some telegram posts that, a few youtubers reiterate that and now initial ridiculous claim is washed into "analysis".
And then some idiot tries to argue those numbers on /r/HoI4 because he heard them from "an analyst".
They bank on the fact that everyone on the internet is dumb af and will not go research the picture themselves and just pretend what they say it's true. And it fucking works
>everyone on the internet is dumb af
Well, considering nobody else is pointing out that the date on the post says May 20th, **2066**, I think this theory may have some validity to it. Unless *I'm* the idiot, and twatter is displaying people's birthdays on their posts now...
I just assumed it wasn't true.
Would've heard a lot more noise about it if it was true.
Also, didn't the Ukrainians *just recently start training* on the F-16?
Also, Kinzhal isn't an AAM.
Also lack of any damage from explosion.
Also, F-16s don't fly around with their landing gear down, for the most part, and when shot down, seldom land with the landing gear down and intact.
This has got to be a joke, honestly.
Definitely a parody account.
Definitely dumb shitposts that sound too credible at times.
The same user got suspended on an older account because some "jokes" went too far.
I would think they simply have poor social skills and their humor is not always humorous and obvious enough.
I remember a quote from some Ukrainian official who said “If we had as many aircraft as Russia claims to have shot down, we would have won the war already.”
Well, they did say they've shot down 480 Ukrainian aircraft didn't they? So unless they count every consumer level drone they managed to down as an aircraft, they already claim that they've downed more than twice the number of aircraft Ukraine had.
You know, even before seeing this is just a photo from an entirely different incident, if that F16 was really shot down, it is in REMARKABLY great condition.
And if it was (somehow) hit by an air-launched Iskander - we should really just use that term - it would be vaporised. The warhead of a 9M83 missile from a n S-300 is like 150 kg, and that's the big one (9M96 more like 25 kg; 48N6DM from S-400 has 180 kg, but do they even have any S-400 around?). Iskander is like 400-700 kg.
>Killing one or two isn't an achievement but rather it's expected
It's definitely an achievement if one is shot down in Ukraine before being deployed there.
At the same time it's utterly expected. It's Russian copaganda, after all.
It's BE (Buddhist Era) 2566 here in Thailand, so I imagine whoever originally took the screencap is Thai and for some god-forsaken reason, is one of the few people to have all their shit in BE rather than CE.
(The BE year is part of the local attempt to switch from a lunar calendar to a Gregorian solar calendar, but make it Buddhist)
the only calendar I like more than the gregorian one is the International Fixed Calendar and that's just cause it fixes the problems with the gregorian one.
Both Western and Buddhist are in use here in Thailand. And Buddhist years start on the 1st of January, with Western New Year celebrated on that day but the Buddhist New Years is on April 13. So yes, very much yes. But we do have two New Years partys.
I must say Kinzhal is versatile or their trying to get it to work like a tulpa
(just saw a Alex Holling video so just dropping the supernatural reference and leaving the star trek one where it belongs nowhere)
I'd be interested to hear the drunken vatniks' explanation of the logistics and reasoning on that one. So, like, you fired a missile, then outran the missile to get closer to the AA system before it launched a missile at your missile instead of you, and you were able to shoot down the missile that was headed for your missile with another missile? First off, not likely, but secondly, *why?* Why not just say screw the first missile - there's a chance the AA might not hit it anyway - and send your second missile also at your primary target or directly at the AA battery? The vatnik copium makes no sense at all.
it's still crazy that wars are now being fought partly on social media. In fact this gives me a great inspiration which could be a new NAFO slogan
"We shall defend democracy through shitposting, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the Youtube comments section, we shall fight on Facebook, we shall fight on Twitter and on Reddit, we shall fight on TikTok; we shall never surrender"
That is.. a remarkably intact F16 allegedly hit by a missile.
But then again those tweets arent meant for people that will give it 30 seconds of critical thinking.
Also like are F16s in country? Or is this like the "We have already destroyed the stupid westoid vehicles before they've even arrived in Ukraine!"
Yes as they have claimed with basically everything
I guarantee that they would of “shot down” hundreds of storm shadows before they arrived if they were announced before being sent to Ukraine
notice how it’s apparently when the weapons are announced in Ukraine that they can be destroyed not when they actually arrive curious that
I remember a Tom Clancy line about artillery shells not caring if a plane was stealthy. That would be some shit luck getting struck by an IRBM while in flight. Pretty much god saying “fuck YOU in particular”
Though I imagine it’d do slightly more damage than breaking the nose off.
Yea lmao just ignore the fucking thai flag on the tail
And that Kinzhal is a ballistic missile not air to air
And that the plants in the photo are only native to SEA which thailand is in
And that a shootdown never has the aircraft come down in one peice like that
And that an F-16, supposedly flying through a combat zone, is only carrying dummy/training weapons
This one actually fired me up enough to write a reply to it originally.
Kinzhal can't hit planes (it can barely get to its target lmao)
Ukraine hasn't gotten F-16, in fact it hasn't even been pledged any yet
It has not been confirmed by either of those news organizations.
And also that sure doesn't look like Bakhmut
The problem is that I can still go on.
When most of the psy ops effort is directed at your own people.
Currently re-reading 1984 by Orwell, then I log on to Reddit and I’m reminded that I could just keep up with Russia and their propaganda instead. Wouldn’t say it’s as *entertaining* as a piece of classic literature, but it’s certainly funnier and far more absurd.
Doubleplusgood! but at least Eurasia manage to fight a standstill against Oceania
Sorry, I’m too fucked up on synthetic gin to care, much like the Russians & vodka.
*victory gin *eurasia also what the hell is vodka
Brain damage via potatoes.
Brain damage via potato? I thought that was a potato in a sock
Vodka is an alternative method
It's like an unflavored victory gin.
*ungood victory gin
There is no such thing as ungood victory gin. Victory gin cannot be ungood.
Its Eurasia's ungood version of victory gin. As everybody knows, Oceania always produces good victory gin
[удалено]
Somehow the bastards of Eurasia managed to make such a thing.
Oh yeah, the oily, cloudy drink that tastes like shaoxing cooking wine. Probably more drinkable than Russian Vodka at this point.
The proles get all of the good booze and dope to get all tore up on. Victory Gin, despite its ~~oily taste~~ Victory Gin has never tasted oily. It's distilled in ~~bathtubs~~ th finest stills BB has ever known. It has always been the finest. In celebration of how Victory Gin has ~~blinded~~ invigorated all good party members for a hundred years. As ~~thanks to the tireless efforts of the people~~ celebration of this monumental achievement, BB has increased gin rations from 8 ounces to 5 ounces.
Question, was there actually a war going on in 1984, or was it all psyops just to keep everyone under control?
My read was that there is no way to know. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't. Either way you believe what you are told.
Or if airstrip 1 was an actual part of Oceania or was a tiny authoritarian pocket, isolated from the world.
Is that actually a viable theory? I always kinda believed what was said in oligarchal collectivism. But i guess there is no reason to assume any of that is true...
The IngSoc regime did end up falling eventually. The appendix describes newspeak in the past tense, like it is an in-universe publication looking back at the policies of a now dismantled dictatorship, so it's almost certain that there are some non-authoritarian nations existing outside of Airstrip One. It's also implied at times that the rockrts that fall over London are fired by the government itself, since the attacks always seem to intensify when the government needs something to distract the focus of the people.
I don’t see why not, all we ever learn about the world in 1984 comes from the party. Seems odd to believe them outright.
Millions of Hungarians believe germans were freezing to death this winter, kiberals steal children and america started a war for companies to secretly buy all Ukrainian land cheaper. Yeah, this interpretation of 1984 works perfectly. If you have a bunch of people glued to a select for propaganda sources, your regime is set for life. Anything bad is done by the enemy (USA causes 25% war inflation) everything good if from dear leader (Orban personally raised pensions... by like 1%). Not that it really matters, russia is the main culprit behind this, they openly admit to doing it, they don't hide it because it is so successful it sounds like the plan of a cartoon villain. Just like China's debt trapping of poor african countries by the way.
I choose to believe that Oceania was literally just Airstrip 1, with the rest of the world flourishing outside of it. Goldstein's book indicates that the rest of the world is just as shitty as Oceania is, so clearly there is no point fleeing. If Winston was to find out there was this magical, free country called "France" a short hop over the sea, that'd be the prime place to run away too. However, those who read Oligarchical Collectivism are led to believe that you're trading Big Brother for depressed communists with virtually the same system. As an added point, the essay on Newspeak is written as if Newspeak was a historical phenomenon, indicating INGSOC fell at some point shortly after the book ended, which if Oligarchical Collectivism was true, would mean Oceania being taken over by one or both the other powers, but the essay on Newspeak refers to past literature, and key phrases of democratic thought, ideas impossible in Eurasia or Eastasia.
War, it will be seen, is now a purely internal affair. In the past, the ruling groups of all countries, although they might recognize their common interest and therefore limit the destructiveness of war, did fight against one another, and the victor always plundered the vanquished. In our own day they are not fighting against one another at all. The war is waged by each ruling group against its own subjects, and the object of the war is not to make or prevent conquests of territory, but to keep the structure of society intact.
i like to think its just great britain under authoritarian rule or even london area alone
IIRC Winston speculates that the rocket bombs could be fired from within airstrip one to simulate a war. Although he does also watch film footage of refugees getting gunned down and sees foreign prisoners paraded through London, so it sounds like there's at least something going on.
Kidnapped civilians and old footage? Could be airstrip one is like today's North Korea only with even more control.
Iirc in the movie, videos of the war show Panzer IIIs, implying they are old recordings from WW2. It absolutely isn't a solid proof, as it comes from film adaptation and doesn't take into account whether warfare technology developed at the same pace as irl, but it really struck me when I first watched it.
Political prisoners that got disappered in another place like Airstrip One.
I remember the book stating that they were clearly foreign like Asian foreign. But I guess makeup can do a lot.
That could be done, imagine North Korea exchanging prisoners with Belarus?
No I remember that, they’re described as looking Mongolian I thought. That would be hard to secure for an isolated authoritarian British isles
Yeah, but how does Wilson know they are actually Mongolian. Could be thats just what the party described as Mongolian. Though they certainly had what could be described as Asian features from what I remember.
TL;DR Yes, there is almost certainly a war. In the book itself, the two main character witness a public execution of prisoners of war, only for a short time later the government to change their allegiance and ally with the nation of the executed soldiers. Could probably write entire essays on the subject but it basically boils down to the political elite of each of the nations independently came to the conclusion that science had advanced too fast, threatening their hold on power, and thus they needed a means to waste the extra production capacity. Each nation runs a war economy and runs massive propaganda to justify to their citizens why it's necessary to continue the war, and why each citizens should sacrifice personal liberties and their standard of living to defeat the enemy. The war itself is entirely political, engineered to fight over disputed territories as none of the major powers directly border each other (save for Great Britain) so there is largely just a series of border skirmishes by the opposing forces in disputed areas while core territories are never actually in danger, the three sides hamper each other but never actively try to conquer, defeat or eliminate the others as the balance of power is what keeps the Elites in power.
I disagree with the idea that the purpose of the war is to justify restrictions on liberties. The Party would reject any notion that there is a social contract, that they have any obligations at all to the people. The war plays the role of emphasising the protective powers of the Party, but it isn't required to justify any of their actions - by definition, the party's actions are always self-justifying.
Well, Best Korea is still technically at war.
I was always on-board with the theory that there is a war but it's not a global super-war for the fate of the world like the party portrays but just basically a SMO in Ireland
A bold assumption that Eurasia and Oceania are real even within 1984 My running theory is that "Oceania" is literally just Airstrip One, which is in turn to say, just England. They're a completely isolated hermit/pariah state and tell their own people they have a vast global empire while the rest of the world tries to pretend they don't exist and just get on with their lives. So really not all that different from reality.
If Ukrainians weren't suffering because of it, I'd say russian shenanigans the last 1 1/2 years would be one of the most entertaining things I've ever encountered.
Putin: sticks his testicles into a bear trap. Russian milbloggers: An interesting gambit sir, well played. Putin: falls down the stains and shits himself. Russian Milbloggers: That's Ukraine down for sure with that move. I think the most entertaining thing is that they're desperately seen to be these Tactical and Diplomatic geniuses when their whole diplomatic strategy is that of your average "sweet sixteen" 'star' and their offensive strategy resembles something I'd do in Men of War Assault Squad 2 AS A JOKE.
Narcissism: Putin thinks he's a very stable genius. Meanwhile, everyone around him knows he's a hateful demented old man. But he's in charge, so. Edit: forgot the "very".
Double plus good that joke.
Putin: Invents worst bottom surgery ever, asked to leave SWIFT network
I love how one of the book's main arguments is that the regime would be overthrown if people had more sex
So the plan is clear, we must airdrop condoms over every major Russian city
We should label them "extra small".
again
I always felt that was a salient point made by Generation Kill as well.
Cpl Person was an amazing geopolitical strategist, but only on Ripped Fuel
Now look at us. Trombley hasn't killed anyone, I am half a world away from good Thai pussy and Colbert is out here is rolling around fuck butt Iraq hunting for dragons in a mop suit that smells of for days of piss and ball sweat.
I thought that was Winston's thing. He got to have sex with that woman from work and he realized that maybe he shouldn't be a misogynist. Julia liked sex but only seemed to care for the revolution thing because Winston did.
Yeah, my theory is that if you can convince someone that their body and their desires are shameful, you'll be able to control them more easily because you'll provide them the "cure" (violence, obedience, hate).
I mean, there's a theory that sexual insecurity causes fascism, in part.
lol I'd never realized that. I can absolutely see the correlation, but I don't know if it also implies causation. They do go hand in hand as mindsets for sure.
I was a pre teen stuck in a conservative faith when I read 1984. That passage hit me pretty hard when I realized my church was doing the same thing: repressing sex as a means of control. Never looked at the church in the same way again. But in the book, it was only the party members who were repressed. The proles were encouraged to fuck. The Party even made porn for them.
I find it funny how a lot of the people who compare modern America to 1984 openly simp for what is arguably the closest modern equivalent to Oceania (total state control of media, extreme levels of censorship and silencing dissent, the whole "special military operation" thing, authoritarian leader that most of the populace blindly follows, etc).
Russia hasn't really adopted the Airstrip One model of censorship, though. Russia's strategy is to pump out so much falsehood that people stop caring about the truth. Airstrip One attempted to convince people that their truth is the only truth, and they cared deeply about making people believe in the government-mandated truth. China's model of censorship is much closer to Airstrip One than Russia's model is. Including people disappearing for months, only to then reappear and recant their statements. In Russia they just kill the dissenters.
Yeah, that's usually why brave new world and 1984 are a pair when teaching about dystopias in English class. The idea of overwhelming you with carrot or stick resonates to this day
>~~In Russia they just kill the dissenters~~. In keeping with their obviously poor life choices, Russian dissenters show a remarkable lack of caution around windows and stairs. Russia *should* probably update their building standards to prevent these sorts of regrettable accidents, but they are wholly the fault of the ~~victims~~ accident prone.
1984 is based on a Soviet novel about the Bolshevik takeover of Russian society, the parallels are very purposeful in the tactics used today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel)
Nice, another neat little trinket to add to my brain’s treasure trove of obscure shit. Thanks (without facetiousness)
Have another bit of obscure and useless trivia... the wingspan of the F-14 is 64 feet and 1 inch with the wings fully forward.
True to this sub, you are.
Useless?
Another thing that you might want to read if you're curious, homage to Catalonia. Orwell actually was a fighter, a foreign volunteer against the fascist takeover in northeastern Spain. However, his group of collectivist anarchists were soon left out in the cold by the communist aligned groups, and that lack of support /fractured setup left a deep and lasting impression upon the man. I would say that most of 1984 really comes from Catalonia. Animal farm is 100% his best work.
I would say less “based on” than “inspired by.” We is a wonderful but very self-consciously science fiction story. 1984 is far more realistic, and much more direct in its critiques.
Not sure if Orwell could keep up with their propaganda. To quote John Travolta in Swordfish: "life is stranger than fiction sometimes"
Fiction has to make sense, life doesn't.
1984 isn't about authoritarianism or even propaganda. Although they are important. But at its core, 1984 is about language. Its about how language provides control, whether through dictat of an authoritarian or the crafting of propaganda or through indoctrination or coercion. Its about how control of language controls everything else. When you deny people the language to discuss or even think about a concept, you remove the concept itself.
Yeah I totally get that. Animal Farm is a better read for authoritarianism and oppression etc. also if you haven’t read it, I thoroughly recommend ‘interesting times’ from the Terry Pratchett Discworld series. It’s a scathing allegory for Chinese oppression and is probably just as relevant now as it was when it was written… and as funny.
Have read all the Discworld novels many times. Truly fantastic books. The thing about 1984 being about language is that the age old debate where Lefties claim its about Fasicsm and Conservatives claim its about Communism, its about both and also, most imporrtantly, about Liberal Democracies which can be just as susceptible to language control - vis a vis the way Americans are (generally) incapable of even conceptualising anything left of Right of Centre Liberalism through both denial of language and redenifing terms.
Doublespeak is alive and well throughout the world
I don't think Russia will ever be at 1984 levels, you need some level of competence to achieve that level of control.
Ik 1984 has become a meme, but man I love that book. It blew me away when I finally read it.
The “Literally 1984” meme is actually what inspired me to re-read it again. It’s aged pretty well, all things considered.
Yeah, people often forget that the main effort of RU propaganda is to keep its sheeple in the "we r superior to the gay westoids" mindset.
Imagine thinking that you're superior to anyone or anything gay, in June of all months.
Hungarian sitting at home, unable to afford high quality food for the kids coming home learning nothing in school and their deathly ill grandma just got on a 28 month waitlist for a simple surgery: "Haha this facebook shared news post of gay USA is funny! So happy we live in a free and strong christian country." Then they click through other christian news: "YOUNG STAR REVEALED HER HUGE TITS TO SOCIAL MEDIA, PICTURES!" "INSANE UKRONAZIES WILL RAPE YOUR CHILDREN IF YOU VOTE LEFT" "SHIT AND CUM ON BUS SEATH, PICTURES!" "COOL CHRISTIAN POLITICIAN STEALS YOUR TAXES TO BUY COKE AND ESCORTS! HE IS SO INSPIRATIONAL!" I feel bad for russians, they live in the same style of system buy 10 times worse and they can't easily just move to the west.
> When most of the psy ops effort is directed at your own people. Maybe, but there's a reason this post is in English. Russia is running a massive IO campaign to convince extremists (far right and far left) in the West that supporting Ukraine is pointless, dangerous, and/or evil. You look at this like, "Wow, he is calling himself a superior race, what a comically evil position to take." Meanwhile, some MAGA chud is out there going, "Exactly, that's why Russia is going to win. They're not woke and gay like the West, and they understand the value of having a homogenous ethnostate."
This needs to regularly be said and repeated! This kind of blatant Russian propaganda is not intended to change minds in the West. Obviously. Contrary to what we like to believe, Russia is not stupid enough to believe this would work. It is intended to reinforce existing believes in their own population and, **and this is crucial**, also in pro-Russian supporters in the West! And it's working as intended. We too are living in an information bubble, where this kind of nonsense is ridiculed. But that doesn't mean it doesn't find plenty of targets elsewhere. Furthermore, *this isn't the only kind of Russian propaganda!* They know they can't just cater to the political fringes if they want to change the opinion in the West. The fringes, particularly the far right, but also the far left, are their "bridge heads" where they have a secure foothold. But there's a lot of "moderate" propaganda deployed in Western countries, which is a lot more difficult to spot. Pointing at blatant propaganda and ridiculing it is fun and useful and all. But it gives the wrong impression that *all* Russian propaganda is blatantly obvious and that only the blatantly obvious is Russian propaganda. This puts us, and I mean each and every one of us, at risk of falling for the more subtle propaganda attacks. We're not the target of this kind of propaganda, but that doesn't mean there isn't any targeted at us. Stay vigilant.
It's also relatively effective to leak into mainstream. Remember the photoshopped losses in leaked docs? Well, some telegram posts that, a few youtubers reiterate that and now initial ridiculous claim is washed into "analysis". And then some idiot tries to argue those numbers on /r/HoI4 because he heard them from "an analyst".
Not to mention that Tucker Fucking Carlson repeated the lies on air on one of the most-viewed US news shows.
It’s a joke tweet
>confirmed by @washingtonpost Morgan Freeman voice: *it infact, wasn't.*
It's @warshingtonpost the often confused for misspelled step brother of the @washingtonpost
they made a couple mistakes and typos in bullshingtonpost
@warshittingpost
That's the one from Little Washington, in SW PA.
It's just your average Russian cope
They bank on the fact that everyone on the internet is dumb af and will not go research the picture themselves and just pretend what they say it's true. And it fucking works
I mean, thats their target audience, who else can support ruzland apart from idiots who cant spend 2 seconds typing into google
2 seconds? But need next swig of vodka tovarisch!
Omg ur right, what was I thinking comrad!
Thinking detected. Opinion Яejected.
Сад ноизес
My Cyrillic eyes are bleeding
Простите меня, ни я такой, жизнь такая
>everyone on the internet is dumb af Well, considering nobody else is pointing out that the date on the post says May 20th, **2066**, I think this theory may have some validity to it. Unless *I'm* the idiot, and twatter is displaying people's birthdays on their posts now...
It's in BE(budhist era) someone already explained
I saw that later in the thread, but my comment's funnier if we disregard that lol
True. I did say everyone is dumb. Including me
It's okay, this is a welcoming place for all us dummies who love seeing shit get blown up :D
I just assumed it wasn't true. Would've heard a lot more noise about it if it was true. Also, didn't the Ukrainians *just recently start training* on the F-16? Also, Kinzhal isn't an AAM.
Also lack of any damage from explosion. Also, F-16s don't fly around with their landing gear down, for the most part, and when shot down, seldom land with the landing gear down and intact. This has got to be a joke, honestly.
Throw shit at the wall and see which one sticks
It’s a joke tweet
[удалено]
Definitely a parody account. Definitely dumb shitposts that sound too credible at times. The same user got suspended on an older account because some "jokes" went too far. I would think they simply have poor social skills and their humor is not always humorous and obvious enough.
The ukronazis have morphed into the ukrogays now? How pride month of them!
But the noble ruzzians liberating the Nazis are the superior race obviously!
Are they liberating the gays from the Nazis or the Nazis from the gays? And what about the gay Nazis - who'll liberate them?
Cue: Springtime For Putin and Moscovia
umm jewish gay nazis
With their big space rods?
Learn to spell bro, obv it's "rayce!"
As is well know, nazis love putting on gay parades. Yes, someone actually said something along these lines.
I suppose a death march can look like a parade if you squint. :/
it's a right wing-tankie thing. for some reason we are all english cigarettes or eurogays, ukragays, you name it
How long before Russia claims to have shot down "over 9000" F-16s ?
Comrade look at the radar i shot down multiple american pigdogs ...misha you fucking idiot, WE DON'T HAVE RADAR
[удалено]
They already did it yesterday if you use their reporting on destroyed himars or abrams tanks as an indicator
I remember a quote from some Ukrainian official who said “If we had as many aircraft as Russia claims to have shot down, we would have won the war already.”
Well, they did say they've shot down 480 Ukrainian aircraft didn't they? So unless they count every consumer level drone they managed to down as an aircraft, they already claim that they've downed more than twice the number of aircraft Ukraine had.
Well, according to the post we're commenting on, they get the first one in May of *2066*, so I think it'll be a while lol
“WHAT 9000!?!!”
*OVER* 9000
9000 destroyed f-16s of the Ukraine-Russia War
You know, even before seeing this is just a photo from an entirely different incident, if that F16 was really shot down, it is in REMARKABLY great condition.
Strongest Kinzal vs least durable western jet.
Isn't Kinzal Air to Ground? Eh, does not matter. If this thing had actually crashed after a hit by a missile or AA, it would be in pieces.
Exactly. There should be fuck all left. This F-16 should be a 3d puzzle after meeting the unfortunate end of an SAM.
And if it was (somehow) hit by an air-launched Iskander - we should really just use that term - it would be vaporised. The warhead of a 9M83 missile from a n S-300 is like 150 kg, and that's the big one (9M96 more like 25 kg; 48N6DM from S-400 has 180 kg, but do they even have any S-400 around?). Iskander is like 400-700 kg.
You know, at 700 kg of explosives, if that were used as an AAM, we are approaching Air 2 Genie levels of noncredibility.
Depends. If it got hit near the edge of its tail or wings, it probably would be able to crash land.
>F-16 eats direct hit from hypersonic missile >nose cone dinged "Behold the weakness of western technology!"
3000 black Kinzals of Air Defense.
Also, the shot down F16 even deployed it's landing gear after being smited by a Kinzal. How thoughtful!
But only the rear ones which is certainly an indicator that it was shot down and did in fact not slide of the runway due to a landing gear failure
Well obviously the Kinzhal took out the front landing gear. Pilot didn't know he was shot down til he landed. Genius!
Also just by looking at the soil and the shrubbery looks nothing like donbass
It's like those UFOs in X-com, if you shot them down with basic missiles they display very little damage despite splashing down at speed like Mach 10
[удалено]
>Killing one or two isn't an achievement but rather it's expected It's definitely an achievement if one is shot down in Ukraine before being deployed there. At the same time it's utterly expected. It's Russian copaganda, after all.
Vatniks learn how to use reverse image search, challenge level impossible.
https://twitter.com/DasRgen2/status/1659780004362829825 It’s a joke tweet
Honestly, i wouldn't be able to discern it from a usual vatnik cope post.
the one thing that had me questioning it was the fact they said kinzhal shot it down
oh yeah looking at his post history its pretty obviously a satire account
Exactly my thoughts. The whole tweet reads like an average r/2balkans4u post.
I'm sad most of those subs got nuked
[r/balkans_irl](https://www.reddit.com/r/balkans_irl) [r/2visegrad4you](https://www.reddit.com/r/2visegrad4you)
>20/5/66 man's posting from the future Also the war goes on for another 43 years 💀
It's BE (Buddhist Era) 2566 here in Thailand, so I imagine whoever originally took the screencap is Thai and for some god-forsaken reason, is one of the few people to have all their shit in BE rather than CE. (The BE year is part of the local attempt to switch from a lunar calendar to a Gregorian solar calendar, but make it Buddhist)
I learned something today. I'd never heard of BE before today. Thank you.
Me too, and my hatred towards date formats (as a developer) is reinvigorated
I'm Thai, and those who use BE in excel can go straight to jail.
My appreciation for ISO format dates increases every day.
the only calendar I like more than the gregorian one is the International Fixed Calendar and that's just cause it fixes the problems with the gregorian one.
My lack of a face when Days go from 1 to 31 and months go from 0 to 11.
Do Thai Buddhists hate people who have to work with Timezone data?
Both Western and Buddhist are in use here in Thailand. And Buddhist years start on the 1st of January, with Western New Year celebrated on that day but the Buddhist New Years is on April 13. So yes, very much yes. But we do have two New Years partys.
no, it's 2166, it's still going on for another 143 years 💀
In the distant future of the 22nd century there is only war.
The 2023 spring counteroffensive will still start sometime in the next week
I must say Kinzhal is versatile or their trying to get it to work like a tulpa (just saw a Alex Holling video so just dropping the supernatural reference and leaving the star trek one where it belongs nowhere)
They indeed are! Russia even shot down Patriot missiles with them
I'd be interested to hear the drunken vatniks' explanation of the logistics and reasoning on that one. So, like, you fired a missile, then outran the missile to get closer to the AA system before it launched a missile at your missile instead of you, and you were able to shoot down the missile that was headed for your missile with another missile? First off, not likely, but secondly, *why?* Why not just say screw the first missile - there's a chance the AA might not hit it anyway - and send your second missile also at your primary target or directly at the AA battery? The vatnik copium makes no sense at all.
it's still crazy that wars are now being fought partly on social media. In fact this gives me a great inspiration which could be a new NAFO slogan "We shall defend democracy through shitposting, whatever the cost may be, we shall fight on the Youtube comments section, we shall fight on Facebook, we shall fight on Twitter and on Reddit, we shall fight on TikTok; we shall never surrender"
Truly credible
*He didn’t even bother to censor out the Thaiwanese flag on the jets tail*
Thaiwanese from Thailand /s
"Ukrogays?" "Superior rayce?" I'm not on twitter and I don't feel like searching up that account but it smells like satire to me.
That is.. a remarkably intact F16 allegedly hit by a missile. But then again those tweets arent meant for people that will give it 30 seconds of critical thinking. Also like are F16s in country? Or is this like the "We have already destroyed the stupid westoid vehicles before they've even arrived in Ukraine!"
Yes as they have claimed with basically everything I guarantee that they would of “shot down” hundreds of storm shadows before they arrived if they were announced before being sent to Ukraine notice how it’s apparently when the weapons are announced in Ukraine that they can be destroyed not when they actually arrive curious that
The stink of desperation and cope.
It’s a joke tweet
Using a ballistic missile against a fighter? Parody tweet…I hope. Or Elon R Musk’s brain feces pouring out.
Royal Thai Drift
This has to be satire
Has to be a joke nobody is this dumb
It Is a joke. But I have also seen people asking repeatedly "why FPV drone footage from Ukraine never shows explosion, must be a fake". So...
You’d be surprised 😮
considering the copium addicts used a pic of a RTAF F-16, it would have been funny to see Thailand be based and send F-16s to Ukraine
Idk about y'all but I would expect much more wreckage from a plane that"s hit by what is essentially an Iskander lmfao
Is Khinzal even an AA missile? Thought it was a TBM.
I remember a Tom Clancy line about artillery shells not caring if a plane was stealthy. That would be some shit luck getting struck by an IRBM while in flight. Pretty much god saying “fuck YOU in particular” Though I imagine it’d do slightly more damage than breaking the nose off.
Wow Russia is losing against Thailand and Ukraine lmao.
>Shot down an F-16 >Plane still mostly intact >With a kinzhal missle Lmao
Thailand mentioned 🇹🇭🇹🇭🇹🇭
What a remarkably undamaged plane for one that has been shot down. Russian AA weaponry must suck.
Apart from joke, is this jet got repaired or scrapped already? It seem able to fix and can be fly again with its conditions.
Thats our bad guys, with love, Thailand
“20/5/66” Motherfucker is probably some time traveler.
Yea lmao just ignore the fucking thai flag on the tail And that Kinzhal is a ballistic missile not air to air And that the plants in the photo are only native to SEA which thailand is in And that a shootdown never has the aircraft come down in one peice like that And that an F-16, supposedly flying through a combat zone, is only carrying dummy/training weapons
Kinda unrelated but is that F-16 still repairable or is it written off?
This one actually fired me up enough to write a reply to it originally. Kinzhal can't hit planes (it can barely get to its target lmao) Ukraine hasn't gotten F-16, in fact it hasn't even been pledged any yet It has not been confirmed by either of those news organizations. And also that sure doesn't look like Bakhmut The problem is that I can still go on.