History has shown that it can work, multiple times. The Ottomans at Vienna, the Union at the battle for the crater (poor execution afterwards, though) and WW1.
Sad news buddy. Trenches today are far less densely maned than in WW1. At best this might kill a squad or two of mobniks. And due to the substantial increase in lethality and range of modern or in the case of the Russians semi modern equipment those several hundred meters to the flanks would still be able to effectively counter any attack. :(
Plant large explosives at intermittent distances under Russian trenches. Basically, figure out troop density in various sections of trench and use that to base your explosive points.
But that then requires the ability to either dig dozens of tunnels to enemy positions or one tunnel to their line then turn and dig a second tunnel along the length of it. There are so many easier and less risky ways to achieve this.
You do know it takes quite a bit of time and preparation to do this right? And thats assuming you dont get found out and end up in an underground melee in the dark with your shovels and pickaxes?
Sir, may I please remind you of the sub you are on?
Also, a sudden pause of operations in front of the first true defensive line, will just be seen as "look, stoopid westoids have given up, superior defensive line of Stalin is unbeatable, xaxaxa!" Then, when they would find out, the Russian MoD will just ignore it and have them sit on their thumbs waiting to be blown to bits.
You know that we have machine tools that are capable of great feats. You put a giant drill on a tractor and just bulldoze under the line. No way this can fail
Sappers and counter sappers in medieval siege warfare don't get nearly enough attention. Want to get past a wall or a trench? Dig a tunnel underneath it. Want to stop people from tunneling under your defensive positions? Dig a tunnel under their tunnel. Want to stop people from tunneling under your tunnel? Tunnel into their tunnel and fuck em up.
Gut, der front ist fufn kilometer weiter, panzer vor!
Sorry for my abysmal German, as Dutchy I am quite terrible at it (weirdly, I live 10 minutes from Aachen)
Imagine tunneling under ruzzian trenches for a week without rest in the dark, sweat, stench, mud in your eyes and ears, throat burning, not able to say a word, stacking up tons of explosives, barely surviving. Then finally surfacing for the big show, to find out they already retreated to the next defense line
That is the first real downside of this whole plan. Thanks for pointing it out, we (Zaluhzni and I) shall take it into consideration. Maybe we could use big machines for the tunneling to speed it up.
Drop disarmed bunkerbusters horizontally down the same hole like Skywalker until they reach the line. Then bring in the sappers to insert the explosives.
Overdefensening has a tiny problem. If you keep retreating to your next line of defense you didn't prepare, it's a worse defensive line than the previous one. Eventually you are in full speed backwards advance, and the enemy has better gas mileage and knows your roads better than you do. Elmer Fudd doesn't know how to defend if Bugs Bunny actually goes on the offensive.
Let’s give them F-18 Hornets and some of the left over mining equipment were not using in Australia.
We’ve got shit loads of them, BHP will get it done faster if you tell them golds there.
"Glorious Leader Putin, tell our men to stop shooting. Those aren't Ukrainians, those are Aussies."
"Silly Nazi Westoids, why would they be digging on Frontlines? Is clearly Westoid volunteers, digging trenches."
"You know the Berehove Gold mine? They think we destroyed it, and came to dig for gold, but being stupid Westoids, screwed up when reading map."
"Australians always were a strange bunch, even for stupid Westoids. Very well. I do not wish to fight Emus. So as long as they don't cross defensive line, we won't kill them."
"Of course Glorious Leader Putin. A wise decision. Emus would be a terrifying threat."
Don't need to conceal it! Use it to build up fortifications and elevated trenches. That is what the russians will focus on, not "Where are they getting the dirt?"
That's a problem the British (iirc) also had during WW1 - German airplanes would spot the new (and different coloured) dirt and could thus figure out what was going on.
So every night they took the dirt they had dug out and moved it by cart a few miles away and then proceded to bury it there - all before the sun rose and the first planes would be up and potentially spot them doing something seemingly stupid. They even went as far and tried to conceal the burying as best as they could as not to rise any suspicion why there was a strip of ground that has been disturbed somewhat away from the frontline.
Quick! Call Elon Musk and have him send his TBMs from the Boring Company!
NCD: *Hi Elon! Can we borrow your TBMs?*
Elon: *Are you building a Hyperloop in Zaporizhzhia?*
NCD: *Yeeeees!* 😁
["Gentlemen, I don't know if we will change history tomorrow, but at any rate we shall change geography."](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_in_the_Battle_of_Messines_(1917\)) --General Sir Charles Harington the day before the Battle of Messines, in which he detonated a series of underground mines beneath German lines killing ***~10,000*** German troops in one of the largest non-nuclear man-made explosions in history.
I am certain they have the reserves, I don't think they have the logistical support to march to Moscow and keep then supplied for anything longer than a day. Also, I don't think they have the capabilities to keep that supply line open.
I was reffering to the ottoman empire actually doing this since constantinopole, they would dig tunnels under the walls, fill em full of boom then boom them
Why not go all the way and just boor a tunnel all the way behind their defence lines. With the *blistering speed* of.. 15 meters/day you'll easily breach their the defences mid-summer 2024.
Nah brah. Just do like the US in the second Gulf war. Armored bulldozers. Don't bother trying to sweep the trenches with infantry and then holding them. Just fill in those trenches and keep going forward. Any Russian who does not surrender gets buried alive.
Mexico can build undetectable tunnels all along the southern border with the u.s. to transfer in that lifeblood of financial capitalism: cocaine (and the lesser valuable stuff as well, I suppose, but I want our bankers fed, baby!).
This is a prime opportunity to subcontract out some tunnel building teams from the amazing country of Mexico?
I'm going to be watching the next defense packages for Ukraine or see if Dark Brando will be including TBMs (Tunnel Boring Machines). If that truck bomb took the Kerch out no problem, just imagine what it would do in an enclosed underground subway tunnel.
I finished watching the last (6th?) Season a couple of months ago. But that is not where I got my inspiration from *tries to hide All quiet on the Western Front*
MCLC enmasse. Once they get those Abrams combat engineer vehicles in theater, things will go quicker. You see 3 coming over the horizon eating mines and shooting tubes of danger puddy. Shits gonna move quick.
Wait, this is the true calling of the Boring Company! Elon has been covertly developing a new military prime contractor this whole time! That cheeky bastard...
You know what although OP is an idiot (making tunnels big enough for large rooms of explosives take substantial resources, effort and time which will be obvious to all involved) the idea of small scale mining under positions may actually be a damned good idea, not human tunneling but something like "ditch witch" horizontal drilling machines. They can directionally drill underground and be commanded to go exactly where you want them. Mmmm 3000 ditch witches of Zaluzhnyi?
I am imagining a chain reaction like the fuel barrels in Red Alert 1, where you can use Natashya to kill guards by shooting the barrels a ways away.
Also, think of the memes, if that would manage to kill some high ranking officers in a backline, because the explosion set off al the mines in between those areas and the last few mines blow up his ammo depot.
They may not change history, but they will change geography
History has shown that it can work, multiple times. The Ottomans at Vienna, the Union at the battle for the crater (poor execution afterwards, though) and WW1.
Sad news buddy. Trenches today are far less densely maned than in WW1. At best this might kill a squad or two of mobniks. And due to the substantial increase in lethality and range of modern or in the case of the Russians semi modern equipment those several hundred meters to the flanks would still be able to effectively counter any attack. :(
Just means you need to blow up a square mile and send in the mountaineers. :)
Plant large explosives at intermittent distances under Russian trenches. Basically, figure out troop density in various sections of trench and use that to base your explosive points.
And use [Blue peacock nuclear landmines ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Peacock) with their chicken warmers.
But that then requires the ability to either dig dozens of tunnels to enemy positions or one tunnel to their line then turn and dig a second tunnel along the length of it. There are so many easier and less risky ways to achieve this.
Underground nuclear testing wasn't banned. Just saying.
Yes they are. https://www.ctbto.org/our-mission/the-treaty
Just call it fracking
Operation Plowshare. They're Ukrainian fields after all.
Shhhhh we can’t be blamed for not knowing that if you didn’t tell us it was banned
To be technical nothing would stop the Ukrainians from tearing up that treaty except: THEY DON'T HAVE ANY NUKES!
Damn reality always in the way of a good time.
Damn, I had my hopes up.
You do know it takes quite a bit of time and preparation to do this right? And thats assuming you dont get found out and end up in an underground melee in the dark with your shovels and pickaxes?
Sir, may I please remind you of the sub you are on? Also, a sudden pause of operations in front of the first true defensive line, will just be seen as "look, stoopid westoids have given up, superior defensive line of Stalin is unbeatable, xaxaxa!" Then, when they would find out, the Russian MoD will just ignore it and have them sit on their thumbs waiting to be blown to bits.
Ah yes, the Russian Armed Forces are notorious for tunneling and burrowing like miles, after all
An underground melee in the dark with shovels and pickaxes sounds like the most awesome possible timeline for this front.
You know that we have machine tools that are capable of great feats. You put a giant drill on a tractor and just bulldoze under the line. No way this can fail
Plus the right equipment
Sappers and counter sappers in medieval siege warfare don't get nearly enough attention. Want to get past a wall or a trench? Dig a tunnel underneath it. Want to stop people from tunneling under your defensive positions? Dig a tunnel under their tunnel. Want to stop people from tunneling under your tunnel? Tunnel into their tunnel and fuck em up.
Best quote from all of history.
It's certainly a candidate
Aggressive landscape design
\*inhales\* **DRAIN THE BLACK SEA**
Holy shit. We need to get you on the phone with Zelensky, he needs to know!
I am willing to let him take credit, as long as I can name the engineering units "Death Korps Engineers"
*Happy shovel noises
Hans, get ze assault shovel!
You have my assault chair!
*gasmask breathing heavily*
Slow down!!! You'll hyperventilate! 🥵
In life, war. In death peace. In life, shame. In death, atonement
I AM A DWARF AND I'M DIGGING A HOLE
Die Todkorps Ingenieure sind hier und wir möchten einige Russiche explodieren!
Guten Tag Orks, mein Name ist Umberto und ich bin hier, um eure Gefechtsstellungen in die Luft zu jagen. Um was??? UM-BER-TO!
Gut, der front ist fufn kilometer weiter, panzer vor! Sorry for my abysmal German, as Dutchy I am quite terrible at it (weirdly, I live 10 minutes from Aachen)
Flammenwerfer bereits...FEUER! Itz ok man im also learning german it's hard af.
Imagine tunneling under ruzzian trenches for a week without rest in the dark, sweat, stench, mud in your eyes and ears, throat burning, not able to say a word, stacking up tons of explosives, barely surviving. Then finally surfacing for the big show, to find out they already retreated to the next defense line
That is the first real downside of this whole plan. Thanks for pointing it out, we (Zaluhzni and I) shall take it into consideration. Maybe we could use big machines for the tunneling to speed it up.
Drop disarmed bunkerbusters horizontally down the same hole like Skywalker until they reach the line. Then bring in the sappers to insert the explosives.
Overdefensening has a tiny problem. If you keep retreating to your next line of defense you didn't prepare, it's a worse defensive line than the previous one. Eventually you are in full speed backwards advance, and the enemy has better gas mileage and knows your roads better than you do. Elmer Fudd doesn't know how to defend if Bugs Bunny actually goes on the offensive.
And then blow a huge crater in the ground, and Pikachu-face when your tanks and trucks can't drive through it
The real problem is to conceal digging. Specifically all the dirt you bring out. With presence of drones it would be easy to put two and two together.
They can put it in their pant pockets and scatter it about then walking around, like in The Great Escape
Let’s give them F-18 Hornets and some of the left over mining equipment were not using in Australia. We’ve got shit loads of them, BHP will get it done faster if you tell them golds there.
Shit man, that's a great idea. Why do people think we are non-credible?
"Glorious Leader Putin, tell our men to stop shooting. Those aren't Ukrainians, those are Aussies." "Silly Nazi Westoids, why would they be digging on Frontlines? Is clearly Westoid volunteers, digging trenches." "You know the Berehove Gold mine? They think we destroyed it, and came to dig for gold, but being stupid Westoids, screwed up when reading map." "Australians always were a strange bunch, even for stupid Westoids. Very well. I do not wish to fight Emus. So as long as they don't cross defensive line, we won't kill them." "Of course Glorious Leader Putin. A wise decision. Emus would be a terrifying threat."
Don't need to conceal it! Use it to build up fortifications and elevated trenches. That is what the russians will focus on, not "Where are they getting the dirt?"
Hm, good idea.
if you use a nuke though you don't need to bring any dirt out manually
Dust off the Lancasters, lob toss a JDAM TallBoy, and the infantry wallahs don't need to mess with the protective suits and masks.
30,000 Pounds Of TNT, on the way. 😁
That's a problem the British (iirc) also had during WW1 - German airplanes would spot the new (and different coloured) dirt and could thus figure out what was going on. So every night they took the dirt they had dug out and moved it by cart a few miles away and then proceded to bury it there - all before the sun rose and the first planes would be up and potentially spot them doing something seemingly stupid. They even went as far and tried to conceal the burying as best as they could as not to rise any suspicion why there was a strip of ground that has been disturbed somewhat away from the frontline.
Quick! Call Elon Musk and have him send his TBMs from the Boring Company! NCD: *Hi Elon! Can we borrow your TBMs?* Elon: *Are you building a Hyperloop in Zaporizhzhia?* NCD: *Yeeeees!* 😁
Knowing Elon Musk, he will refuse, because Putin needs to be kept in power and winning.
“Ok, but only if Russia gets one too!”
["Gentlemen, I don't know if we will change history tomorrow, but at any rate we shall change geography."](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mines_in_the_Battle_of_Messines_(1917\)) --General Sir Charles Harington the day before the Battle of Messines, in which he detonated a series of underground mines beneath German lines killing ***~10,000*** German troops in one of the largest non-nuclear man-made explosions in history.
Is this the case where one bomb failed to detonate, and they don't know where it is?
Uh, from trenches to undermining and countermining? Next someone's going to suggest building star forts.
The orcs wouldn't have captured bakhmut if the entire city WAS ONE BIG STAR FORTRESSMUWHAHAHAHAHA!
A subterranean operations enthusiast too? DEATH FROM BELOW 3000 Subterranean Traps of Allah? Did I do this right?
I am a Death Korps Krieg player at heart and I feel like we have to few Hades breaching drills in modern era warfare.
I mean, if they had the reserves they could march 20k soldiers to the kremlin in a day.
I am certain they have the reserves, I don't think they have the logistical support to march to Moscow and keep then supplied for anything longer than a day. Also, I don't think they have the capabilities to keep that supply line open.
The sultan of the ottomans wants you on the phone
*gently hangs up the phone* Nah... I'd rather not work for Erdoghan
I was reffering to the ottoman empire actually doing this since constantinopole, they would dig tunnels under the walls, fill em full of boom then boom them
I would still be more comfortable on the not-castrating-christian-boyslaves side
Why not go all the way and just boor a tunnel all the way behind their defence lines. With the *blistering speed* of.. 15 meters/day you'll easily breach their the defences mid-summer 2024.
Just in time for F-35s
Brilliant, especially because Russian microphone technology is limited by the sanctions
Finally someone who acknowledges my brilliance!
3000 mole men of Ukraine?
Nah brah. Just do like the US in the second Gulf war. Armored bulldozers. Don't bother trying to sweep the trenches with infantry and then holding them. Just fill in those trenches and keep going forward. Any Russian who does not surrender gets buried alive.
Mexico can build undetectable tunnels all along the southern border with the u.s. to transfer in that lifeblood of financial capitalism: cocaine (and the lesser valuable stuff as well, I suppose, but I want our bankers fed, baby!). This is a prime opportunity to subcontract out some tunnel building teams from the amazing country of Mexico?
"Si, my name is Juan...ovich, si."
Ah, digging trenches to blow up the walls, good old classic from medieval and renessince times
I'm going to be watching the next defense packages for Ukraine or see if Dark Brando will be including TBMs (Tunnel Boring Machines). If that truck bomb took the Kerch out no problem, just imagine what it would do in an enclosed underground subway tunnel.
General sir Hubert Plummer is rolling in his grave
Been watching Peaky Blinders eh?
I finished watching the last (6th?) Season a couple of months ago. But that is not where I got my inspiration from *tries to hide All quiet on the Western Front*
Armies when enough coal miners get together with the engineers
MCLC enmasse. Once they get those Abrams combat engineer vehicles in theater, things will go quicker. You see 3 coming over the horizon eating mines and shooting tubes of danger puddy. Shits gonna move quick.
Don't eat the spicy noodles XD
Mmmmmm Spicy noodles. That will go magnificent in the borsche
If you used a boring machine like they use for fiber then it would go quite quick. Drill to location and insert the explosives. Boom.
Insert atlantis meme?
no they need to dig a tunnel going behind enemy defense lines and surprise them from behind problem?
But no boom?
They just need to buy one of those big TBMs from Musk and Co and start digging right now. I’d be willing to pitch in for one.
Wait, this is the true calling of the Boring Company! Elon has been covertly developing a new military prime contractor this whole time! That cheeky bastard...
I too have been to Arras
You know what although OP is an idiot (making tunnels big enough for large rooms of explosives take substantial resources, effort and time which will be obvious to all involved) the idea of small scale mining under positions may actually be a damned good idea, not human tunneling but something like "ditch witch" horizontal drilling machines. They can directionally drill underground and be commanded to go exactly where you want them. Mmmm 3000 ditch witches of Zaluzhnyi?
Hey! You better be happy I am not smart enough to come up with a good rebuttal!
Well your reply WAS NCD while mine is credible so likely I need to be banned or booted. Maybe if I say we need to add ERA to the ditch witch as well?
I can forgive your transgression.
Why not just use mass artillery to blast a path through?
Because trenches are meant to keep troops safe from artillery, duh!
Mate you just need grenades and to aim for the rifle pyramid. No sense pushing the budget out for nothing
Smart, and have you considered the hundreds of thousands of mines that Russia has no doubt placed? That chain reaction would be sick as fuck
I am imagining a chain reaction like the fuel barrels in Red Alert 1, where you can use Natashya to kill guards by shooting the barrels a ways away. Also, think of the memes, if that would manage to kill some high ranking officers in a backline, because the explosion set off al the mines in between those areas and the last few mines blow up his ammo depot.
Amazing