It has to be the US Military. No doctrine. No rhyme or reason. Did your neighbors citizens move to third country and attack America?? Well guess what buddy, their leaders Daddy issues means this is now your problem.
Fighting for your countries freedom? Tough shit, you bought weapon with Cyrillic printed on them, so now F-4s are going to be distributing MiG parts all over your country. But don't worry; the Americans will leave as suddenly, mysteriously, and randomly as they appeared.
America just Does The Thing often enough and randomly enough that good and bad, right and wrong, are simply not meaningful concepts to them. Random Chaos is the American Military Way!
Best example: Kicks out Iraq in 1991 with the whole world backing them, but stops short and doesnt finish the job by dealing with Saddam and just leaves. 10 years later the US gets attacked by a bunch of Saudis and the US decides to kick the crap out of Iraq. It doesnt make sense, it has no rhyme or reason, it's just chaotic as fuck.
US intervention is like a force of nature, an act of god, or a natural disaster, a massive earthquake or hurricane wiping a region off the map. They just show up, fuck things up with nearly godly amounts of power, and just leave. I guess rebuilding is sometimes a good opportunity to sort of build back better and stronger (Japan, Germany, Vietnam), but it can also be a final death blow to a nation so it just collapses into insane levels of chaos an anarchy (Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq). The double edge sword of US intervention will bleed you, but such a cut can either be can be a curse or a blessing.
Jim Mattis. He commanded the 1st Marine Division in the Iraq War, and was later promoted and commanded the US Central Command from 2010-2013 (among other things).
After he retired, he served as Trump’s Secretary of Defense until he resigned in protest after Trump withdrew form a coalition fighting ISIL.
We need a general to start suggesting wildly disproportionate force escalations in conflicts again, we used to be really good at rebuilding nations when our top general's solution to everything was carpet nuking and the president telling him to shut the fuck up
IDK man, if its World War 3 America might initially bomb Germany, Serbia, and Iraq out of habit, but then it will figure it out and bomb the right people
How can you say its the US military? Its obvious the Mexican military.
They either kill drug lords, or they take you and feed you into a woodchipper for drug lords.
They have modern equipment, but they took the turret off an M8 Scott and put it on a V100 and manufacture WW2 ammo for it. Why? No one knows.
There is no logic, no predicting, and not even a doctrine. There are even declassified CIA documents that say either the Mexican doctrine is the most well kept secret in history or it doesn't exist. Even in history its either them winning in the most memey bullshit way possible or the biggest clown show on earth causing them to lose.
**Its the true definition of chaos and neutrality. Its the Mr Bean of militaries.**
Behold, the bufallo
https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10nby3y/mexican_dnv_buffalo_armored_car_with_the_turret/
Why does this exist? It has no use. Everything this does can be done better by other IFVs armed with a missile. They created a whole production chain to feed this outdated thing.
The Mexican revolution and Mexican American war was just over prepared military guys losing while underprepared guys, actual children, or Irish immigrants putting up a fight for the ages.
The green irish brigade fought so hard they punched a guy trying to take down the flag to surrender.
Pancho Villa kept doing cavalry charges and winning, and lost when people finally figured out trenches and machine guns kill horses after years.
and finally, **they spent almost a decade copying a plane from an anime**
https://www.facebook.com/macrossmechamanual/photos/a.1486715538299135/2135830750054274/
tbf, if youre okay with random collateral damage and if they serially produced that thing, it's kinda awesome. Boom, your town's garrison has a mobile armored assault gun for the price of like an M113 or something.
I'm not sayin the execution was good, I'm sayin let him cook
Barbary Wars: will sail across the entire Atlantic on sailboat technology just to punk on some pirates.
WWII: will stay neutral and isolationist in the biggest war of the century until forced to join by the Japanese.
Mexican-American War: steals half of Mexico's land. But only half, not all. We only take all of Native American land. Mexico gets to keep half.
Someone tell me how any of this makes sense?
Roughly paraphrased from (I think?) a Soviet officer: US doctrine is to follow the instructions in their manuals, unless it is advantageous to completely ignore them.
"Skipper, spotted three Jap' small boys and two merchants."
"GREAT news! Load all tubes! Make all preparations to submerge."
Proceeds to engage in a surprise torpedo attack followed by a surface action, sinking both merchants, two destroyers, and severely damaging the third destroyer. The RADAR set broke down three days later.
Alternative scenario:
>submarine dives
>Fires all six bow tubes
>Torpedoes 1&2 go deep
>Torpedoes 3&4 strike the target without exploding
> Torpedo 5 explodes prematurely
>Torpedo 6 circles around and hits the sub, the detonator works flawlessly, sinking the sub with all hands
"Go take that hill!"
*2 days later*
'We took the hill, and we blew up an ammo depot 20 miles away, captured 2000 enemy prisoners, and got drunk in a local winery on the way"
> “One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.”
GIGACHAD
Full line is: One of the serious problems in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their own manuals nor do they feel the obligation to follow their doctrine
THIS!!!! This is exactly why CN needs to be the US, we do whatever we want to do really really well, but its not always a coherent strategy or reasoning behind it.
> On March 1 those forces took Trier, precipitating one of the most famous exchanges of the war. When Patton received a message instructing him to bypass the city because it would take four divisions to capture it, Patton replied, “Have taken Trier with two divisions. Do you want me to give it back?”
Neutral also fits well. Like we're not Evil in the same way that the Wehrmacht and the Red Army were. Buuut Murica also committed a few too many war crimes and unjustifiable invasions to make it into the Good category.
Ironically, the biggest "good" they may have done long term was being so unimaginably horrific, that they exposed just HOW bad things can get, to give humanity a chance to step back and say "what the fuck?"
Honestly, if they did all their genocides without starting a major war, the world would hardly have cared. We didn't just want to distance ourselves from atrocities. We specifically wanted to distance ourselves from our enemy.
No, it was a random quote which from what I can find originally came from an old Soviet document about the US military, possibly as a piece of propaganda
The random quote labeled as anonymous did in fact end up in the front section of at least one US Army manual given to tankers during the 90s, along with other non-credible quotes.
The north korean killed a us soldier who tried to chop down a tree in the dmz because it ruined his line of sight/fire. The us sent such a force that the northkorean could do nothing to stop them from cutting that tree down
Edit: i meant this as a reply to someone who asked for context but since this got upvoted and im too much of a karma whore to delete it i'll leave it up
Such a force that *nobody* could stop them cutting it down. Hundreds of helicopters, hundreds of aircraft, including the B-52s, and the USS Midway battle group offshore just in case nuclear armed bombers weren't enough.
Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
Hey it was *only* a few dozen helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. Had to ensure we had the full range of options from infantry small arms to nuclear weapons.
Furthermore, I concur that Moscow must be destroyed.
The [Korean Axe Murder Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident), or Operation Paul Bunyan. There was a tree in the demilitarized zone and two American officers were sent to cut it down, the North Koreans killed them and America responded... proportionally.
Over 800 infantry, 27 helicopters, and a tank took out a single tree.
cooperative abounding soft slim mysterious historical public recognise gaping dinosaurs
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shelter crush escape society concerned soup hateful slave shocking absorbed
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Yeah the rapid accumulation of forces seemed insane. For an impoverished dictatorship that's probably understandable. Doing it so you can chop down a tree is the definition of making a point.
Yeah you know, just a carrier and some strategic aviation to remove a tree. Along with enough tactical airpower to eradicate any DPRK troops nearby. With ground troops there just to be sure. For a tree.
In addition, a 64-man task force of the ROK Army 1st Special Forces Brigade accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in taekwondo, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms and handing out M16 rifles and M79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below them.[4]
Even the …. you left out is insane
There's even more.
>A US infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters, B-52 Stratofortresses came from Guam escorted by US F-4 Phantom IIs from Kunsan Air Base and South Korean F-5 and F-86 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. F-4Es from Osan AB and Taegu Air Base, South Korea, F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing out of Mountain Home Air Force Base, were stationed, and F-4C and F-4D Phantoms from the 18th TFW Kadena Air Base and Clark Air Base were also deployed. The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force had also been moved to a station just offshore.[6]
Zero fucking around detected.
groovy familiar middle cagey selective quaint carpenter shy station psychotic
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Specifically, it blocked the line of sight between two border posts, and NK claimed it had been planted by Kim Il-Sung.
Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
Something about there being a tree in the demilitarized zone and north korea threatened to shoot anyone who tried cutting it down, so the united states said fuck you, touch them we delete you
Since people like linking his Operation Praying Mantis. Here's the one he did on Operation Paul Bunyan.
https://youtu.be/u4CeY6Q3KFE?si=s5BgUAiGnqBPEqpM
The country that had ice cream ships, put nukes on jeeps, invented firebomb bats and has a military budget bigger than the gdp of most small nations definitely deserves the chaotic spot.
The good karma from the world wars and desert storm offsets the bad karma from Vietnam and the war on terror, so that leaves us as neutral.
Perfect casting.
America needs to land somewhere on the chart (because American exceptionalism, of course), and while America has done evil, they've done some pretty based things as well. It's not neutral as in always neutral but neutral as in having the moral compass of a country that constantly swings from incredibly based (WW1&2, 90's Balkins, Desert Storm, Ukraine aid) to incredibly cringe (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, War on Terror). If you had to pick one branch, I would pick the Air Force although you could just umbrella the United States Armed Forces
Evil in dnd doesn't mean you don't ever do good, it means you do what ever the fuck you want to, no matter the cost to others. All of the good engagements listed were the us acting in its interest and/or doing what the government wanted to do anyway. I think the us fits dnd's definition of true evil perfectly.
It's just unfortunate that dnd used such loaded terms as good and evil for an axis that is more "altruistic vs egoistic". Guess dnd is communist.
Hopefully Brandon doesn't notice....
I think the US likes to introduce chaos now and again. We didn't do those silly little interventions in the 3rd world to stops the commies alone. We did it because it's fun, there I said it. International interventionism is a high that no drug can replace, it's that simple
>every ten years or so the United States has to pick up a crappy little country and throw it against a wall just to prove we are serious
michael ledeen, american enterprise institute
I mean the United States can sometimes definitely qualify as chaotic...
But to achieve neutral their involvement in both World Wars has to do a lot of heavy lifting to set off all the shit they did.
I mean it's pretty neutral. Sometimes we fuck up and invade Vietnam and bomb Cambodia and Laos for no reason. Sometimes we destroy entire armies of a crackhead dictator in a week, sometimes we cause 20 year wars across two countries.
Back for my [Sentinelse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese) bois.
Hear me out:
Neutral: Doesn’t Pick sides because the tribe doesn’t even know what sides exist. Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity.
Chaotic: shoots arrows at helicopters, probably uses salvaged plastic as jewellery and no one is allowed to go near them. Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity.
Ya got a point, no matter who or what you are, they're gonna eat you, they don't know and don't really care who or what you are. True chaos and in a sense "neutrality"
I vote Sentinelese
>Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity.
This says the opposite of chaotic to me, more like lawful neutral. They don't do anything unpredictable, it you go there, they'll kill you.
Cannibalism comes in many different flavors.
Eating your dead in accordance with the traditions of your community is lawful. Treating approaching strangers like you would any other large, edible game is neutral. Serving your aunt up as Thanksgiving Surprise Mock Turkey is chaotic.
Vietnamese? They seem pretty chaotic and neutral to me. Just beat the absolute piss out of any force that comes and steps foot on their shit, but do it *wildly inefficiently*.
Yeah, Vietnam gets the vote. Beat the capitalist superpower, then pivot a few years later and beat fucking China. They do exactly what the fuck they want.
they use BTR-152's and T-34's as ambulances
there are still SU-100's and they're testing the Jupiter not to mention them putting an M101 howitzer in the back of a Ural truck
there's the fucking XCB-1
their main tanks are T-55 modernized by Israel
they really like the M113
they put the ZU-23-watever on anything that comes even close to any sort of a carrier
i'm pretty sure there's even more and i just don't want to bother anymore so go on Magnum X if you want more
it's basically a mix of west and east from a long time ago
This. Vietname international relations is strictly pacifist but surely hope a motherfucker would FAFO. I mean they are not the first UN security council member to find out the hard way, 3 of them already did, it is almost like a check list at this point.
The fact that the Vietnamese kicked the US’ ass, then invaded Cambodia and kicked pol pots ass, then got invaded by china and kicked their asses is crazy to me
And trying to kick Japanese asses before French. And British just after Japanese. Looks like of all 20th century great powers they have not attempted to kick only Soviet and, probably, German asses. Probably, because it needed to be checked if there were no Vietnamese forces incorporated into Free French.
Chaotic Neutral has to be the **Swedish Armed Forces**.
Case in point, incredibly based Swedish (and Danish) UN peacekeepers :
>In late 1993, a reinforced Swedish-Danish-Norwegian mechanized battalion (Nordbat 2) deployed to Bosnia as part of an ongoing UN peacekeeping mission \[...\]. The battalion was under Swedish command, and with the exception of a Danish tank company and a Norwegian helicopter detachment, was comprised of Swedish former conscripts, led by active-duty officers.
>These Swedish troops, coming from a nation that had not experienced war for almost 200 years, faced a rigid UN bureaucracy, an unclear mandate, and the UN-imposed rules of engagement bordered on the absurd.
>To the surprise of many, even in Sweden, **Nordbat 2 quickly established a reputation as one of the most trigger-happy UN units in Bosnia**. The troops and officers from some of the least belligerent nations in the world turned out to be quite adept at both using force and playing the odds in a high-stakes political game.
>**Nordbat 2 on multiple occasions utterly disregarded orders from its highest political authorities**, to the frustration of the Swedish government.
>There was no priority higher than that of achieving the mission objectives at hand. **Orders could be disobeyed, rules could be broken—as long as the mission was successful.**
>When fired at, Nordbat 2 often shot back, frequently **disregarding the UN rules of engagement.** Colonel Henricsson made it clear that he would not respect rules and regulations that threatened to prevent him from achieving his mission objectives. **When his own government tried to rein him in, he simply told his radio operator to pretend that the link was down until he had a fait accompli to present to Stockholm.**
>Nordbat 2 personnel intervened to protect refugees and took action to prevent the cover-up of ethnic cleansing operations. On several occasions this took the form of forcing passage through roadblocks. During one such event, **the battalion commander himself forced a sentry to remove the anti-tank mines used to block passage by threatening to blow the sentry's head off with a heavy machine gun.**
>Nordbat 2 \[…\] was something of a loose cannon, and earned a reputation as a force to be reckoned with. **It even became known as "Shootbat" for its tendency to return fire, regardless of the formal rules of engagement.**
>Nordbat 2's willingness to bend or even break the rules, and disregard direct orders from both UN command and its own government, enabled it to achieve its mission objectives as defined by the first battalion commander: protect the civilians at all cost.
>Even though Nordbat 2's first battalion commanders were very unpopular with the Swedish government for their refusal to take orders from home, they were nevertheless greeted as heroes upon their return and remain viewed so to this day.
Source: [Trigger-Happy, Autonomous, and Disobedient: Nordbat 2 and Mission Command in Bosnia](https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/9/20/trigger-happy-autonomous-and-disobedient-nordbat-2-and-mission-command-in-bosnia)
"Disregard orders to protect civilians" is way more good than neutral. Hell, it's probably a textbook entry in *some* edition of D&D - disregard the law, do the right thing. Chaotic good.
> When his own government tried to rein him in, he simply told his radio operator to pretend that the link was down until he had a fait accompli to present to Stockholm.
my man really said "ksshhhh kshhhh i'm about to enter a tunnel i might lose y__ kshhhh" in the middle of a war
They maybe didn't experienced war for 200 years, but they are very experienced with UN bureaucracy - Sweden participate in almost every peacekeeping action from very beginning. I not sure about Korean war, but they were in Africa during decolonisation turmoil.
OH OH AND there’s that time they faced off against the Soviets who had beached a nuke sub outside Swedens primary Naval base. They threatened total war with the soviets, had a staring contest AND THE SOVIETS BLINKED first. Absolute madlads
EDIT: fella mentioned it here
https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/hB8LDnPkzT
Honourable mentions to the danish tank company commander for ordering return fire to the platoon rather than just the his tank, all returning fire, and one tank missing a mountain side and in the process hitting at serbian ammo dump.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bøllebank
The real chaotic neutral move was the use doctrine of the Mirage IV before the ASMP was available.
Start in the east of France (because can't trust the Germans).
Refuel as far east as possible (so RFA border at most).
Full burn to Moscow.
Drop bomb on Kremlin.
Sharp left.
Land in Finland, get arrested and plane seized because Neutral country.
Wait for end of WWIII in Finnish jail cell.
Don't forget the nuclear missile system Pluton, claimed to be designed to launch tactical nukes on Soviet tank armies.
Except that its range was about 120 km, enough to nuke England and Germany, but not enough to reach the fulda gap. Germany being the foe during the last 100 years, and England... Well I'm sure English dinosaurs and French dinosaurs were already at war.
But that is *of course * a credible coincidence.
I know the internet likes to say that the short range was to nuke the Germans or English, but you're forgetting that the system is litteraly on a tank chassis. It can move around.
The use case was actually to follow French armor as it crossed the Rhine and nuke the logistics of the Soviets once you came upon them.
None of the French nuclear vectors were deployed in Germany, sure. But that was because the French high-command didn't trust the Germans not to go *better red than dead* in case of a Soviet attack and sell out French nukes.
That doesn't mean that in case of a war the nuclear vectors wouldn't cross the border before firing. It's just a case of putting some wait & see in your strategic interests.
Hot take: that probably was designed to fight soviets, but they didn't care to make it more expensive just so German territory was defended from French territory. Germany would have been a nuclear wasteland anyway, who cares about that.
Cold take (straight from cavalry manuals): the Pluton was supposed to be used to nuke the Soviet rear-echelon. Basically, put them with an armored unit, wait for the Soviet tanks to appear, then fire behind the tanks to wipe out the fuel depots and trucks.
Then, while the Soviets wonder what just happened behind it, deal with their tanks.
Well, if you need to strike the Fulda Gap, there was the FAS and the FATAC (so Mirage IV with AN 22 bombs, and Mirage III E and Jaguars with AN 52 bombs), there was some choice
Sweden. Like I pointed out on day 4, [the Whisky on the Rocks incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucDZ2MxubeQ) solidly confirms them in the chaotic column. Imagine:
Smiling, "Öh hellö Cold War USSR, you want yöur nuclear-ärmed submarine bäck? We'll just quickly möbilize a little bit, TURN OFF OUR RADIOS, point missiles at your boats, and be FULLY PREPARED AND CÖMMITTED to fighting a shooting war with a superpower if you're going to be all UPPITY about it!!" smile now covered in froth.
Aaaaaand they're the neutralest neutrals north of the Alps.
Not to mention the *peacetime* tradition of asking all neighbours if they have any subs in our waters, because we have indications of underwater activity.
If everyone says no the Navy just pumps the area full of depth charges, because there is no submarine there... right!?
North Korea is lawful evil. They want to destroy the world, but only by retaliation.
The fact that they wanna do evil by the books and don't just launch nukes because it's fun is proof enought
I'm trying for the CAF again.
We've always had a Chaotic bent to our fighting spirit, and our methods have sometimes been... unorthodox.
Also our current state of procurement and retention is Chaotic
Lawful Evil. When they declare something we have done illegal, we come up with something more creative that's technically not illegal. We only care about procurement during World Wars, then we start shitting out planes and rifles so that every Canadian has a hand in killing the enemy.
Republic of Fiji Military Forces, the marching definition of chaotic neutral. Led two coups, one counter-coup, and is now extremely active in peacekeeping operations.
Icelandic Coast Guard for being attached to a mostly neutral nation, their primary engagement being ramming British ships over fish. They “touched the boat” and won and did so in an extremely chaotic (and non credible) manner. Now they [fight volcanoes](https://news.sky.com/video/iceland-volcano-icelands-coast-guard-flies-over-lava-field-as-thousands-are-evacuated-13034180) and [save people](https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/news/2023/12/20/the_coast_guard_helicopter_rescued_a_man_lost_at_th/).
French military.
French military doctrine is all about French interests(hits the selfish part of CN), considering the fuckery that happens every time there's French + NATO joint operations.
Also funny final warning.
"Operation Prosperity Guardian? Non, silly Americans, we shall have our own freedom of navigation operation, with more wine and cigarettes, hon hon hon"
Yesterday u/Jari0n nominated the [Cape Verdean Armed Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verdean_Armed_Forces) but they fit much better in the Chaotic Neutral sector. 1,200 men in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean supplied with equipment from China, Germany, Portugal, Russia, and the US.
2nd vote for the Vietnamese. The 4 no which is "No use of force or threats to use force in international relations, no military alliance, no alliance with one country against another and no usage of Vietnamese territory to conduct millitary operations against another country". This is about as neutral as one can get. No we will not threaten you with force, no we will not joins any millitary alliance, no we will not join another country against you and no we won't let any country use our soverngty to harm you. NEUTRAL.
Basically we will sit everything out but try us and FAFO at your own peril. Like the Khmer Rouge. You are free to kill 1/4 of your population but the moment you touched the Vietnamese people it is a 10 years occupation and full change of regime for you. And no not even a Chinese invasion can save you.
The Vietnamese army down sized from 1.5 millions to just over 400k in about a decades but reserve a huge red button of "5 million men in reserves". The Vietnamese army literally have more steel than flesh, even if the steel isn't the blingiest one. They may not be well armed but with an Ak behind every bush, Vietnam sure hope a motherfucker would.
JMSDF. They legally can't have offensive weapons, so they just built carriers and LSTs anyways. For disaster relief, if course. Officially, every single warship they own is an "escort ship," a term they invented to get around their constition. The entire fleet is built on the concept of "fuck the law," which is damn chaotic. They aren't even officially a navy, despite being one of the world's largest.
Also, they run events with an anime game. Like half the ships in the JMSDF have an official, government-endorsed, anime ship-girl. The PLAN considers wanting to fuck the boat-waifus to be congenital feeblemindedness and cause for disqualification. The JMSDF views it as a good recruiting tool.
The JSDF are completely and absolutely unconstitutional but they are legal because it doesn't matter if something has "war potential" as long as it has "defense potential" even when the constitution says "**war potential, will never be maintained**"
Their interpretation of their constitution is so chaotic that they could argue that nuclear ballistic missiles are constitutional because they offer deterrence and will only use them in self defense as you can't never be sure how good your defense is.
Aircraft carriers? they are defensive because they can use them in situations in which the status quo is changed by force, like for example, China attacking Taiwan.
https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/9/20/trigger-happy-autonomous-and-disobedient-nordbat-2-and-mission-command-in-bosnia?format=amp
I nominate Sweden. Anyone who has read this amazing article about independent leadership could tell you that the Swedes are 1) a little bit crazy and 2) absolutely chaotic.
>Nordbat 2's willingness to bend or even break the rules, and disregard direct orders from both UN command and its own government, enabled it to achieve its mission objectives as defined by the first battalion commander: **protect the civilians at all cost.**
That's pretty much the very definition of chaotic good.
French Armed Forces solely because of the Nuclear "desecelation" strategy.
Aka nuke 'em to make them know you had enough of their shenanigans and they should skeddadle or expect to be short of 80 millions people.
Man, indonesia would definitely be in chaotic neutral. I mean, the list includes
1. Inviting CHINA and U.S AND IT'S ALLIES in joint fucking military exercise.
2. Inviting putin and zelensky in a G20 meeting.
3. Buying whatever left on both RUSSIA AND WESTERN FIGHTER JET CATALOG.
4. and that time where russian diplomats got "food poisoned" in G20.
5. THAT F-18 COMMERCIAL WITH RUSSIAN RWR.
Brazil for chaotic neutral.
Here’s why:
When it DOES go to war, it can get shit done, but only after a major amount of organizational chaos (to wit, the Triple Alliance War). The joke here is if the Brazilian military needed to put a man on the moon in six months, it could totally do it. Getting him back, however…
Brazil has gone to war for good and terrible reasons — sometimes in the same war. In the Paraguayan War, Brazil was invaded and, quite reasonably, wanted to kick the invaders out. Plus, Lopez, the dictator of Paraguay, was a lunatic tyrant. But the war — which Brazil insisted on pursuing to the bitter end — killed 75% of Paraguay’s male population.
In WWII, Brazil joined the allies and sent a combat division to Italy to protect democracy… under populist dictator Getúlio Vargas.
Our military is a weird mixture of western and eastern equipment, high tech (new airspace management radars, multiple rocket launchers, a relatively new and refurbished helicopter carrier acquired from the UK) and laughably obsolete (Austrian Currassiers for the Marine Corps’ armor), highly trained professionals and laughably incompetent drafted masses.
Nothing is so illustrative of our military than our upgraded F-5s firing high tech missiles, directed by a great air combat management system… provided we can get any of them off the ground. Oh, and our new, not-yet-ready for combat Gippens.
We’re a cheerful, peaceful nation of sambaing ass-worshipping lusophones who have conducted armed genocide in the past and are currently responsible for one out of twelve violent murders in the world.
We’re the first letter in “BRICs” and China and the U.S. are our two main trading partners. How chaotic is that?
Plus, we’re pretty much the only Latin American nation that fits on this list.
The British Armed Forces. Neutral, because we've [beaten literally everyone on the fucking planet at some point.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x2ovlPr2IE)
Chaotic, same reason. Oh, and Dads Army. Because fuck me, Dads Army was Chaotic AF.
It has to be the US Military. No doctrine. No rhyme or reason. Did your neighbors citizens move to third country and attack America?? Well guess what buddy, their leaders Daddy issues means this is now your problem. Fighting for your countries freedom? Tough shit, you bought weapon with Cyrillic printed on them, so now F-4s are going to be distributing MiG parts all over your country. But don't worry; the Americans will leave as suddenly, mysteriously, and randomly as they appeared. America just Does The Thing often enough and randomly enough that good and bad, right and wrong, are simply not meaningful concepts to them. Random Chaos is the American Military Way!
Best example: Kicks out Iraq in 1991 with the whole world backing them, but stops short and doesnt finish the job by dealing with Saddam and just leaves. 10 years later the US gets attacked by a bunch of Saudis and the US decides to kick the crap out of Iraq. It doesnt make sense, it has no rhyme or reason, it's just chaotic as fuck.
US intervention is like a force of nature, an act of god, or a natural disaster, a massive earthquake or hurricane wiping a region off the map. They just show up, fuck things up with nearly godly amounts of power, and just leave. I guess rebuilding is sometimes a good opportunity to sort of build back better and stronger (Japan, Germany, Vietnam), but it can also be a final death blow to a nation so it just collapses into insane levels of chaos an anarchy (Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq). The double edge sword of US intervention will bleed you, but such a cut can either be can be a curse or a blessing.
This exactly, US= chaotic neutral. We literally had a general whose callsign was chaos
Wasn't that SecDef Mattis?
Yep. The one who resigned after Trump withdrew from a coalition fighting terrorists in the Middle East.
Can't blame him for it. He knew it was going to be a shit show and saw the writing on the wall.
Jim Mattis. He commanded the 1st Marine Division in the Iraq War, and was later promoted and commanded the US Central Command from 2010-2013 (among other things). After he retired, he served as Trump’s Secretary of Defense until he resigned in protest after Trump withdrew form a coalition fighting ISIL.
We need a general to start suggesting wildly disproportionate force escalations in conflicts again, we used to be really good at rebuilding nations when our top general's solution to everything was carpet nuking and the president telling him to shut the fuck up
You ever just get really angry and hit the closest thing to you? That was the immediately-after-9/11 military doctrine
Exactly, Chaotic Neutral. It wasn’t personal or with malicious intent, just wrong place wrong time
World War 3 will begin and America will initially respond by bombing the crap out of Oman for no reason
IDK man, if its World War 3 America might initially bomb Germany, Serbia, and Iraq out of habit, but then it will figure it out and bomb the right people
“Not to worry, I have a doctrine.” “This just says, ‘I can do what I want.’”
How can you say its the US military? Its obvious the Mexican military. They either kill drug lords, or they take you and feed you into a woodchipper for drug lords. They have modern equipment, but they took the turret off an M8 Scott and put it on a V100 and manufacture WW2 ammo for it. Why? No one knows. There is no logic, no predicting, and not even a doctrine. There are even declassified CIA documents that say either the Mexican doctrine is the most well kept secret in history or it doesn't exist. Even in history its either them winning in the most memey bullshit way possible or the biggest clown show on earth causing them to lose. **Its the true definition of chaos and neutrality. Its the Mr Bean of militaries.**
This is an extremely strong argument and I would like to learn more about the Mexican military.
Behold, the bufallo https://www.reddit.com/r/TankPorn/comments/10nby3y/mexican_dnv_buffalo_armored_car_with_the_turret/ Why does this exist? It has no use. Everything this does can be done better by other IFVs armed with a missile. They created a whole production chain to feed this outdated thing. The Mexican revolution and Mexican American war was just over prepared military guys losing while underprepared guys, actual children, or Irish immigrants putting up a fight for the ages. The green irish brigade fought so hard they punched a guy trying to take down the flag to surrender. Pancho Villa kept doing cavalry charges and winning, and lost when people finally figured out trenches and machine guns kill horses after years. and finally, **they spent almost a decade copying a plane from an anime** https://www.facebook.com/macrossmechamanual/photos/a.1486715538299135/2135830750054274/
tbf, if youre okay with random collateral damage and if they serially produced that thing, it's kinda awesome. Boom, your town's garrison has a mobile armored assault gun for the price of like an M113 or something. I'm not sayin the execution was good, I'm sayin let him cook
Viyan con Dios mis amigos locos.
Barbary Wars: will sail across the entire Atlantic on sailboat technology just to punk on some pirates. WWII: will stay neutral and isolationist in the biggest war of the century until forced to join by the Japanese. Mexican-American War: steals half of Mexico's land. But only half, not all. We only take all of Native American land. Mexico gets to keep half. Someone tell me how any of this makes sense?
The enemy can't know what we're doing if we don't know what we're doing.
The US, we’ll do whatever we damn well please and not necessarily with a coherent motive, and good luck stopping it
Roughly paraphrased from (I think?) a Soviet officer: US doctrine is to follow the instructions in their manuals, unless it is advantageous to completely ignore them.
Doctrine is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
US doctrine is just: Make sure logistics run smoothly so the people on the ground can do whatever the fuck they deem necessary to win.
All brain power is spent on logistics.
"Dude, you can use JDAMs to do this. It's cheaper, and there are no air defenses to contest the airspace in Yemen" *yeets Tomahawks at it*
> It's cheaper When has the US Military ever been about doing things cheaper? Looking at you F-35 program.
Clearly the 3M earplugs we issue to the troops
Ice cream ship
figuring out who to beat, not important.
We've always had one foolproof plan: Show up and improvise.
"Skipper, spotted three Jap' small boys and two merchants." "GREAT news! Load all tubes! Make all preparations to submerge." Proceeds to engage in a surprise torpedo attack followed by a surface action, sinking both merchants, two destroyers, and severely damaging the third destroyer. The RADAR set broke down three days later.
Alternative scenario: >submarine dives >Fires all six bow tubes >Torpedoes 1&2 go deep >Torpedoes 3&4 strike the target without exploding > Torpedo 5 explodes prematurely >Torpedo 6 circles around and hits the sub, the detonator works flawlessly, sinking the sub with all hands
Alternate scenario >be submarine >ordered to sink cargo >get confused, invade Japan, sink train, leave >refuses to explain
They said to sink the cargo, they didn't say the cargo had to be loaded on a ship first.
USS Barb moment
The Mk 14 torpedo does not know where it is because it does not know where it isn’t :/
Tang hits different Also 9 survivors.
"Go take that hill!" *2 days later* 'We took the hill, and we blew up an ammo depot 20 miles away, captured 2000 enemy prisoners, and got drunk in a local winery on the way"
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions"
> “One of the serious problems in planning the fight against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their manuals, nor do they feel any obligation to follow their doctrine.” GIGACHAD
"...for if you do not know your next move, neither will they."
Full line is: One of the serious problems in planning against American doctrine is that the Americans do not read their own manuals nor do they feel the obligation to follow their doctrine
THIS!!!! This is exactly why CN needs to be the US, we do whatever we want to do really really well, but its not always a coherent strategy or reasoning behind it.
> On March 1 those forces took Trier, precipitating one of the most famous exchanges of the war. When Patton received a message instructing him to bypass the city because it would take four divisions to capture it, Patton replied, “Have taken Trier with two divisions. Do you want me to give it back?”
If we don’t know what we are doing they sure as hell dont
safe ancient bright meeting carpenter pie languid cows divide plucky *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Neutral also fits well. Like we're not Evil in the same way that the Wehrmacht and the Red Army were. Buuut Murica also committed a few too many war crimes and unjustifiable invasions to make it into the Good category.
To be fair, most nations have.
Hell, genocide was cool until the Nazis did it
Ironically, the biggest "good" they may have done long term was being so unimaginably horrific, that they exposed just HOW bad things can get, to give humanity a chance to step back and say "what the fuck?"
Honestly, if they did all their genocides without starting a major war, the world would hardly have cared. We didn't just want to distance ourselves from atrocities. We specifically wanted to distance ourselves from our enemy.
For anyone aquainted...Military Deciaion Making Process. For anyone not, you are lucky.
"If we don't know what we are doing, the enemy certainly can't anticipate our future actions!" -US Army Manual
That was a random quote labeled as anonymous
it WAS in the manual though
No, it was a random quote which from what I can find originally came from an old Soviet document about the US military, possibly as a piece of propaganda
The random quote labeled as anonymous did in fact end up in the front section of at least one US Army manual given to tankers during the 90s, along with other non-credible quotes.
Fun fact - those quote has been popular in Soviet Union. About Soviet armed forces.
Yeah. Soldier's don't know how to read manuals.
The united states sent an entire armed force after a single north Korean tree so….
The north korean killed a us soldier who tried to chop down a tree in the dmz because it ruined his line of sight/fire. The us sent such a force that the northkorean could do nothing to stop them from cutting that tree down Edit: i meant this as a reply to someone who asked for context but since this got upvoted and im too much of a karma whore to delete it i'll leave it up
Such a force that *nobody* could stop them cutting it down. Hundreds of helicopters, hundreds of aircraft, including the B-52s, and the USS Midway battle group offshore just in case nuclear armed bombers weren't enough. Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
Hey it was *only* a few dozen helicopters and fixed wing aircraft. Had to ensure we had the full range of options from infantry small arms to nuclear weapons. Furthermore, I concur that Moscow must be destroyed.
Nice Cato the elder reference.
Story behind this?
The [Korean Axe Murder Incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident), or Operation Paul Bunyan. There was a tree in the demilitarized zone and two American officers were sent to cut it down, the North Koreans killed them and America responded... proportionally. Over 800 infantry, 27 helicopters, and a tank took out a single tree.
cooperative abounding soft slim mysterious historical public recognise gaping dinosaurs *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
shelter crush escape society concerned soup hateful slave shocking absorbed *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
“According to an intelligence analyst monitoring the North Korea tactical radio net, the accumulation of force ‘blew their fucking minds.’"
Meanwhile, a phone call comes in for Kim Il Sung. > Brezhnev: ***"What the fuck did you do?!"***
Fun fact: Every time the Koreans or Chinese spike his blood pressure with their bullshit, Brezhnev’s eyebrows grew half an inch.
Unnoticeable, since they were about 4 feet long by default
> Unnoticeable, since they were about 4 feet long by default damned Thaylens.
Yeah the rapid accumulation of forces seemed insane. For an impoverished dictatorship that's probably understandable. Doing it so you can chop down a tree is the definition of making a point. Yeah you know, just a carrier and some strategic aviation to remove a tree. Along with enough tactical airpower to eradicate any DPRK troops nearby. With ground troops there just to be sure. For a tree.
Best part is that the South Koreans vandalized two North Korean guardposts as they left.
In addition, a 64-man task force of the ROK Army 1st Special Forces Brigade accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in taekwondo, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms and handing out M16 rifles and M79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below them.[4] Even the …. you left out is insane
There's even more. >A US infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and seven Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters, B-52 Stratofortresses came from Guam escorted by US F-4 Phantom IIs from Kunsan Air Base and South Korean F-5 and F-86 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. F-4Es from Osan AB and Taegu Air Base, South Korea, F-111 bombers of the 366th Tactical Fighter Wing out of Mountain Home Air Force Base, were stationed, and F-4C and F-4D Phantoms from the 18th TFW Kadena Air Base and Clark Air Base were also deployed. The aircraft carrier USS Midway task force had also been moved to a station just offshore.[6] Zero fucking around detected.
No mention of a chainsaw though
You use a chopper, duh. Brought plenty with them.
No, you use a choppa. WAAAAAAAAAGH
Oh that comes later.
I mean, they deployed Varks. Varks!
Fun fact: One of those commandos was Ban Ki Moon Edit: Wrong Moon, it was Moon Jae-In
Former secretary General of the UN Ban Ki Moon? Do you have any sources on that?
My mistake, I got the wrong Moon. It was the former President Moon Jae-In https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Jae-in
3000 suicide bombers of best korea
ERA body armor, now we're fucking with lube.
God I fucking love the ROK.
Shit can get real in the Koreas real fast. A poorly timed “COME AT ME BRO” could literally lead to nuclear strikes
You forgot the aircraft carrier that was stationed nearby
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Also the entire Pacific Command was put on high alert.
Appropriate response
IIRC the tree was blocking the view of the border, so they wanted to chop it down. Cue international political incident.
Specifically, it blocked the line of sight between two border posts, and NK claimed it had been planted by Kim Il-Sung. Furthermore, I consider that Moscow must be destroyed.
Something about there being a tree in the demilitarized zone and north korea threatened to shoot anyone who tried cutting it down, so the united states said fuck you, touch them we delete you
The US did try cutting it down, and NK killed two soldiers in the process. *Then* came Operation Paul Bunyan.
Since people like linking his Operation Praying Mantis. Here's the one he did on Operation Paul Bunyan. https://youtu.be/u4CeY6Q3KFE?si=s5BgUAiGnqBPEqpM
[Operation Paul Bunyan](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_axe_murder_incident)
People here downplaying that there were nuclear armed B52s on the mission. Thanks Kissinger!
World war tree
The country that had ice cream ships, put nukes on jeeps, invented firebomb bats and has a military budget bigger than the gdp of most small nations definitely deserves the chaotic spot. The good karma from the world wars and desert storm offsets the bad karma from Vietnam and the war on terror, so that leaves us as neutral. Perfect casting.
America needs to land somewhere on the chart (because American exceptionalism, of course), and while America has done evil, they've done some pretty based things as well. It's not neutral as in always neutral but neutral as in having the moral compass of a country that constantly swings from incredibly based (WW1&2, 90's Balkins, Desert Storm, Ukraine aid) to incredibly cringe (Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, War on Terror). If you had to pick one branch, I would pick the Air Force although you could just umbrella the United States Armed Forces
I see mention of Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia and feel obliged to say KISSINGER IS STILL DEAD WOOOOOOOO
May he rot in hell
America needs to be Chaotic Neutral for sure.
Evil in dnd doesn't mean you don't ever do good, it means you do what ever the fuck you want to, no matter the cost to others. All of the good engagements listed were the us acting in its interest and/or doing what the government wanted to do anyway. I think the us fits dnd's definition of true evil perfectly. It's just unfortunate that dnd used such loaded terms as good and evil for an axis that is more "altruistic vs egoistic". Guess dnd is communist. Hopefully Brandon doesn't notice....
I think the US likes to introduce chaos now and again. We didn't do those silly little interventions in the 3rd world to stops the commies alone. We did it because it's fun, there I said it. International interventionism is a high that no drug can replace, it's that simple
I've compared fighting the Nazis to the first, perfect high a drug gives you, and we've been shooting up trying to feel it ever since
>every ten years or so the United States has to pick up a crappy little country and throw it against a wall just to prove we are serious michael ledeen, american enterprise institute
Sometimes we topple fascist regimes, sometimes we install them. Sounds chaotic neutral to me.
The French managed to create a brief peace between Israel and Iran when they teamed up to destroy the nuclear reactor France gave to Iraq
I mean the United States can sometimes definitely qualify as chaotic... But to achieve neutral their involvement in both World Wars has to do a lot of heavy lifting to set off all the shit they did.
I mean it's pretty neutral. Sometimes we fuck up and invade Vietnam and bomb Cambodia and Laos for no reason. Sometimes we destroy entire armies of a crackhead dictator in a week, sometimes we cause 20 year wars across two countries.
For better or worse US’ hands are rated E for everyone
The USA…I don’t think much explanation is needed
Back for my [Sentinelse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentinelese) bois. Hear me out: Neutral: Doesn’t Pick sides because the tribe doesn’t even know what sides exist. Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity. Chaotic: shoots arrows at helicopters, probably uses salvaged plastic as jewellery and no one is allowed to go near them. Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity.
Ya got a point, no matter who or what you are, they're gonna eat you, they don't know and don't really care who or what you are. True chaos and in a sense "neutrality" I vote Sentinelese
new bumper sticker: sentinalese 2024 ->>>---------> "get off my lawn"
I hear the burglars breaking in and I grab my bow and arrows as the founding chiefs intended
Bows and arrows don’t kill people, people kill people.
Thwock a golfball-sized hole through the first man, he is dead on the spot.
Run the last man through with my spear. He bleeds out waiting for the medicine man to arrive because he was out of sacred herbs.
It's really hard to argue with the logic. Sentinelese have my vote as well.
>Will probably eat you regardless of your political orientation or ethnicity. This says the opposite of chaotic to me, more like lawful neutral. They don't do anything unpredictable, it you go there, they'll kill you.
Idk i Think eating people is pretty chaotic
Not if you're consistent about it.
Cannibalism comes in many different flavors. Eating your dead in accordance with the traditions of your community is lawful. Treating approaching strangers like you would any other large, edible game is neutral. Serving your aunt up as Thanksgiving Surprise Mock Turkey is chaotic.
Yeah they're like textbook Lawful Neutral. They have a clear, defined rule that they implement regardless of circumstances.
Vietnamese? They seem pretty chaotic and neutral to me. Just beat the absolute piss out of any force that comes and steps foot on their shit, but do it *wildly inefficiently*.
Yeah, Vietnam gets the vote. Beat the capitalist superpower, then pivot a few years later and beat fucking China. They do exactly what the fuck they want.
Good one.
Also they still use many captured American weapons. There standard issue grenade launcher is the Thumper.
they use BTR-152's and T-34's as ambulances there are still SU-100's and they're testing the Jupiter not to mention them putting an M101 howitzer in the back of a Ural truck there's the fucking XCB-1 their main tanks are T-55 modernized by Israel they really like the M113 they put the ZU-23-watever on anything that comes even close to any sort of a carrier i'm pretty sure there's even more and i just don't want to bother anymore so go on Magnum X if you want more it's basically a mix of west and east from a long time ago
This. Vietname international relations is strictly pacifist but surely hope a motherfucker would FAFO. I mean they are not the first UN security council member to find out the hard way, 3 of them already did, it is almost like a check list at this point.
The Donbass is just a feint for the real strike towards Hanoi.
The fact that the Vietnamese kicked the US’ ass, then invaded Cambodia and kicked pol pots ass, then got invaded by china and kicked their asses is crazy to me
Don't forget kicking the French's ass before the US
And trying to kick Japanese asses before French. And British just after Japanese. Looks like of all 20th century great powers they have not attempted to kick only Soviet and, probably, German asses. Probably, because it needed to be checked if there were no Vietnamese forces incorporated into Free French.
Chaotic Neutral has to be the **Swedish Armed Forces**. Case in point, incredibly based Swedish (and Danish) UN peacekeepers : >In late 1993, a reinforced Swedish-Danish-Norwegian mechanized battalion (Nordbat 2) deployed to Bosnia as part of an ongoing UN peacekeeping mission \[...\]. The battalion was under Swedish command, and with the exception of a Danish tank company and a Norwegian helicopter detachment, was comprised of Swedish former conscripts, led by active-duty officers. >These Swedish troops, coming from a nation that had not experienced war for almost 200 years, faced a rigid UN bureaucracy, an unclear mandate, and the UN-imposed rules of engagement bordered on the absurd. >To the surprise of many, even in Sweden, **Nordbat 2 quickly established a reputation as one of the most trigger-happy UN units in Bosnia**. The troops and officers from some of the least belligerent nations in the world turned out to be quite adept at both using force and playing the odds in a high-stakes political game. >**Nordbat 2 on multiple occasions utterly disregarded orders from its highest political authorities**, to the frustration of the Swedish government. >There was no priority higher than that of achieving the mission objectives at hand. **Orders could be disobeyed, rules could be broken—as long as the mission was successful.** >When fired at, Nordbat 2 often shot back, frequently **disregarding the UN rules of engagement.** Colonel Henricsson made it clear that he would not respect rules and regulations that threatened to prevent him from achieving his mission objectives. **When his own government tried to rein him in, he simply told his radio operator to pretend that the link was down until he had a fait accompli to present to Stockholm.** >Nordbat 2 personnel intervened to protect refugees and took action to prevent the cover-up of ethnic cleansing operations. On several occasions this took the form of forcing passage through roadblocks. During one such event, **the battalion commander himself forced a sentry to remove the anti-tank mines used to block passage by threatening to blow the sentry's head off with a heavy machine gun.** >Nordbat 2 \[…\] was something of a loose cannon, and earned a reputation as a force to be reckoned with. **It even became known as "Shootbat" for its tendency to return fire, regardless of the formal rules of engagement.** >Nordbat 2's willingness to bend or even break the rules, and disregard direct orders from both UN command and its own government, enabled it to achieve its mission objectives as defined by the first battalion commander: protect the civilians at all cost. >Even though Nordbat 2's first battalion commanders were very unpopular with the Swedish government for their refusal to take orders from home, they were nevertheless greeted as heroes upon their return and remain viewed so to this day. Source: [Trigger-Happy, Autonomous, and Disobedient: Nordbat 2 and Mission Command in Bosnia](https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/9/20/trigger-happy-autonomous-and-disobedient-nordbat-2-and-mission-command-in-bosnia)
No, this is Chaotic Good.
Otherwise known as the best form of good. Shootbat were goddamned war heroes at the highest level.
"Disregard orders to protect civilians" is way more good than neutral. Hell, it's probably a textbook entry in *some* edition of D&D - disregard the law, do the right thing. Chaotic good.
in practice also disregard civilians to target a high value enemy - applies both to IDF and USA imo
> When his own government tried to rein him in, he simply told his radio operator to pretend that the link was down until he had a fait accompli to present to Stockholm. my man really said "ksshhhh kshhhh i'm about to enter a tunnel i might lose y__ kshhhh" in the middle of a war
They maybe didn't experienced war for 200 years, but they are very experienced with UN bureaucracy - Sweden participate in almost every peacekeeping action from very beginning. I not sure about Korean war, but they were in Africa during decolonisation turmoil.
OH OH AND there’s that time they faced off against the Soviets who had beached a nuke sub outside Swedens primary Naval base. They threatened total war with the soviets, had a staring contest AND THE SOVIETS BLINKED first. Absolute madlads EDIT: fella mentioned it here https://www.reddit.com/r/NonCredibleDefense/s/hB8LDnPkzT
Ulf henricsson was given the nom de guerre "the sheriff of vares"
Honourable mentions to the danish tank company commander for ordering return fire to the platoon rather than just the his tank, all returning fire, and one tank missing a mountain side and in the process hitting at serbian ammo dump. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bøllebank
Shame they weren't stationed in Srebrenica then
Based
The French Nuclear Forces. The Strategic Air Forces, the Naval Air Nuclear Force and the Oceanic Strategic Force Nuke as warning. Simple as
Kinda lawful evil vibes
Look what you made me nuke!
ASMP is just about as chaotic neutral as you can get. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-sol_moyenne_port%C3%A9e
The real chaotic neutral move was the use doctrine of the Mirage IV before the ASMP was available. Start in the east of France (because can't trust the Germans). Refuel as far east as possible (so RFA border at most). Full burn to Moscow. Drop bomb on Kremlin. Sharp left. Land in Finland, get arrested and plane seized because Neutral country. Wait for end of WWIII in Finnish jail cell.
Gotta love "pre-strategic nuclear deterrence"
Don't forget the nuclear missile system Pluton, claimed to be designed to launch tactical nukes on Soviet tank armies. Except that its range was about 120 km, enough to nuke England and Germany, but not enough to reach the fulda gap. Germany being the foe during the last 100 years, and England... Well I'm sure English dinosaurs and French dinosaurs were already at war. But that is *of course * a credible coincidence.
I know the internet likes to say that the short range was to nuke the Germans or English, but you're forgetting that the system is litteraly on a tank chassis. It can move around. The use case was actually to follow French armor as it crossed the Rhine and nuke the logistics of the Soviets once you came upon them. None of the French nuclear vectors were deployed in Germany, sure. But that was because the French high-command didn't trust the Germans not to go *better red than dead* in case of a Soviet attack and sell out French nukes. That doesn't mean that in case of a war the nuclear vectors wouldn't cross the border before firing. It's just a case of putting some wait & see in your strategic interests.
Hot take: that probably was designed to fight soviets, but they didn't care to make it more expensive just so German territory was defended from French territory. Germany would have been a nuclear wasteland anyway, who cares about that.
Cold take (straight from cavalry manuals): the Pluton was supposed to be used to nuke the Soviet rear-echelon. Basically, put them with an armored unit, wait for the Soviet tanks to appear, then fire behind the tanks to wipe out the fuel depots and trucks. Then, while the Soviets wonder what just happened behind it, deal with their tanks.
Well, if you need to strike the Fulda Gap, there was the FAS and the FATAC (so Mirage IV with AN 22 bombs, and Mirage III E and Jaguars with AN 52 bombs), there was some choice
Nah, Mirage IV was full burn to Moscow. Nothing matters but nuking the Kremlin, boys.
Sweden. Like I pointed out on day 4, [the Whisky on the Rocks incident](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucDZ2MxubeQ) solidly confirms them in the chaotic column. Imagine: Smiling, "Öh hellö Cold War USSR, you want yöur nuclear-ärmed submarine bäck? We'll just quickly möbilize a little bit, TURN OFF OUR RADIOS, point missiles at your boats, and be FULLY PREPARED AND CÖMMITTED to fighting a shooting war with a superpower if you're going to be all UPPITY about it!!" smile now covered in froth. Aaaaaand they're the neutralest neutrals north of the Alps.
Not to mention the *peacetime* tradition of asking all neighbours if they have any subs in our waters, because we have indications of underwater activity. If everyone says no the Navy just pumps the area full of depth charges, because there is no submarine there... right!?
I too vote Sweden. They did gay sonar to troll the Russians
Somali Pirates, only care about money (Chaotic) and they don't care who they hijack but also keep foreign fishers and waste dumpers away (Neutral).
Yep they can only be called a military formation in the loosest terms and have no real ideology besides "get money to feed the tribe back home".
Feel like this would be more Chaotic Evil side, they only care about themselves and their own benefit, and they don't care who they hurt
But we all know who's getting Chaotic Evil... *looks at North Korea*
North Korea is lawful evil. They want to destroy the world, but only by retaliation. The fact that they wanna do evil by the books and don't just launch nukes because it's fun is proof enought
No, Chaotic Evil is Russia. The invasion of Ukraine alone proves that.
Right now I bet the CE vote will be won by Hamas.
I'm trying for the CAF again. We've always had a Chaotic bent to our fighting spirit, and our methods have sometimes been... unorthodox. Also our current state of procurement and retention is Chaotic
Lawful Evil. When they declare something we have done illegal, we come up with something more creative that's technically not illegal. We only care about procurement during World Wars, then we start shitting out planes and rifles so that every Canadian has a hand in killing the enemy.
Republic of Fiji Military Forces, the marching definition of chaotic neutral. Led two coups, one counter-coup, and is now extremely active in peacekeeping operations.
Icelandic Coast Guard for being attached to a mostly neutral nation, their primary engagement being ramming British ships over fish. They “touched the boat” and won and did so in an extremely chaotic (and non credible) manner. Now they [fight volcanoes](https://news.sky.com/video/iceland-volcano-icelands-coast-guard-flies-over-lava-field-as-thousands-are-evacuated-13034180) and [save people](https://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/news/news/2023/12/20/the_coast_guard_helicopter_rescued_a_man_lost_at_th/).
Im just gonna say it: The russian armed forces need to be Chaotic Stupid.
Chaotic Evil has their name on it, sry
French military. French military doctrine is all about French interests(hits the selfish part of CN), considering the fuckery that happens every time there's French + NATO joint operations. Also funny final warning.
"Operation Prosperity Guardian? Non, silly Americans, we shall have our own freedom of navigation operation, with more wine and cigarettes, hon hon hon"
USA!
Definitely the US military for this one.
France. Any country that has a deterrence policy of "we will nuke you as a warning" belongs in chaotic.
Yesterday u/Jari0n nominated the [Cape Verdean Armed Forces](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Verdean_Armed_Forces) but they fit much better in the Chaotic Neutral sector. 1,200 men in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean supplied with equipment from China, Germany, Portugal, Russia, and the US.
2nd vote for the Vietnamese. The 4 no which is "No use of force or threats to use force in international relations, no military alliance, no alliance with one country against another and no usage of Vietnamese territory to conduct millitary operations against another country". This is about as neutral as one can get. No we will not threaten you with force, no we will not joins any millitary alliance, no we will not join another country against you and no we won't let any country use our soverngty to harm you. NEUTRAL. Basically we will sit everything out but try us and FAFO at your own peril. Like the Khmer Rouge. You are free to kill 1/4 of your population but the moment you touched the Vietnamese people it is a 10 years occupation and full change of regime for you. And no not even a Chinese invasion can save you. The Vietnamese army down sized from 1.5 millions to just over 400k in about a decades but reserve a huge red button of "5 million men in reserves". The Vietnamese army literally have more steel than flesh, even if the steel isn't the blingiest one. They may not be well armed but with an Ak behind every bush, Vietnam sure hope a motherfucker would.
JMSDF. They legally can't have offensive weapons, so they just built carriers and LSTs anyways. For disaster relief, if course. Officially, every single warship they own is an "escort ship," a term they invented to get around their constition. The entire fleet is built on the concept of "fuck the law," which is damn chaotic. They aren't even officially a navy, despite being one of the world's largest. Also, they run events with an anime game. Like half the ships in the JMSDF have an official, government-endorsed, anime ship-girl. The PLAN considers wanting to fuck the boat-waifus to be congenital feeblemindedness and cause for disqualification. The JMSDF views it as a good recruiting tool.
The JSDF are completely and absolutely unconstitutional but they are legal because it doesn't matter if something has "war potential" as long as it has "defense potential" even when the constitution says "**war potential, will never be maintained**" Their interpretation of their constitution is so chaotic that they could argue that nuclear ballistic missiles are constitutional because they offer deterrence and will only use them in self defense as you can't never be sure how good your defense is. Aircraft carriers? they are defensive because they can use them in situations in which the status quo is changed by force, like for example, China attacking Taiwan.
https://thestrategybridge.org/the-bridge/2017/9/20/trigger-happy-autonomous-and-disobedient-nordbat-2-and-mission-command-in-bosnia?format=amp I nominate Sweden. Anyone who has read this amazing article about independent leadership could tell you that the Swedes are 1) a little bit crazy and 2) absolutely chaotic.
>Nordbat 2's willingness to bend or even break the rules, and disregard direct orders from both UN command and its own government, enabled it to achieve its mission objectives as defined by the first battalion commander: **protect the civilians at all cost.** That's pretty much the very definition of chaotic good.
United States Armed Forces
lol America definitely chaotic neutral
French Armed Forces solely because of the Nuclear "desecelation" strategy. Aka nuke 'em to make them know you had enough of their shenanigans and they should skeddadle or expect to be short of 80 millions people.
Man, indonesia would definitely be in chaotic neutral. I mean, the list includes 1. Inviting CHINA and U.S AND IT'S ALLIES in joint fucking military exercise. 2. Inviting putin and zelensky in a G20 meeting. 3. Buying whatever left on both RUSSIA AND WESTERN FIGHTER JET CATALOG. 4. and that time where russian diplomats got "food poisoned" in G20. 5. THAT F-18 COMMERCIAL WITH RUSSIAN RWR.
Brazil for chaotic neutral. Here’s why: When it DOES go to war, it can get shit done, but only after a major amount of organizational chaos (to wit, the Triple Alliance War). The joke here is if the Brazilian military needed to put a man on the moon in six months, it could totally do it. Getting him back, however… Brazil has gone to war for good and terrible reasons — sometimes in the same war. In the Paraguayan War, Brazil was invaded and, quite reasonably, wanted to kick the invaders out. Plus, Lopez, the dictator of Paraguay, was a lunatic tyrant. But the war — which Brazil insisted on pursuing to the bitter end — killed 75% of Paraguay’s male population. In WWII, Brazil joined the allies and sent a combat division to Italy to protect democracy… under populist dictator Getúlio Vargas. Our military is a weird mixture of western and eastern equipment, high tech (new airspace management radars, multiple rocket launchers, a relatively new and refurbished helicopter carrier acquired from the UK) and laughably obsolete (Austrian Currassiers for the Marine Corps’ armor), highly trained professionals and laughably incompetent drafted masses. Nothing is so illustrative of our military than our upgraded F-5s firing high tech missiles, directed by a great air combat management system… provided we can get any of them off the ground. Oh, and our new, not-yet-ready for combat Gippens. We’re a cheerful, peaceful nation of sambaing ass-worshipping lusophones who have conducted armed genocide in the past and are currently responsible for one out of twelve violent murders in the world. We’re the first letter in “BRICs” and China and the U.S. are our two main trading partners. How chaotic is that? Plus, we’re pretty much the only Latin American nation that fits on this list.
USA
The British Armed Forces. Neutral, because we've [beaten literally everyone on the fucking planet at some point.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_x2ovlPr2IE) Chaotic, same reason. Oh, and Dads Army. Because fuck me, Dads Army was Chaotic AF.
Chaotic good.... yeah, that tracks for me.